{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":96.78999999999999,"body":"Are you looking for ways to support your neurodivergent pupils in your school so they can flourish, find acceptance, and be the best that they can be?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":96.78999999999999,"endTime":104.905,"body":"Well, stay tuned because today on School Behaviour Secrets, I've got Melissa Leggett with me who is the person that started the Neuro Ambassadors' programme."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":105.205,"endTime":112.26499999999999,"body":"She is going to explore the terminology of neurodiversity, which has evolved and changed over the last few years."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":112.484,"endTime":119.219,"body":"She's gonna talk about how to use the Neuro Ambassadors' programme in your school to increase knowledge and acceptance of different"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.219,"endTime":125.69999999999999,"body":"neurotypes, and she's gonna give us tips and tricks for getting teaching about neurodiversity right."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":125.69999999999999,"endTime":127.96,"body":"That's all coming up in today's show."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":128.42,"endTime":133.195,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. I'm your host, Simon Currigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":133.195,"endTime":139.855,"body":"My co host is Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents, and, of course, students"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.915,"endTime":142.815,"body":"when classroom behaviour gets in the way of success."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.95499999999998,"endTime":149.2,"body":"We're gonna share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs, whole school strategy, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.2,"endTime":153.22,"body":"more, all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":153.44,"endTime":159.3,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.51999999999998,"endTime":164.005,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest evidence based before anyone else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":164.005,"endTime":169.045,"body":"This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. Hi there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":169.045,"endTime":174.425,"body":"Simon Currigan here from Beacon School Support, and welcome to this week's episode of School Behaviour Secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":174.8,"endTime":184.8,"body":"We're gonna explore the topic this week of how best to support children of different neurotypes, not just get acceptance in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":184.8,"endTime":190.33499999999998,"body":"school and feel included, but really do their best and flourish and achieve their potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.33499999999998,"endTime":196.655,"body":"And we're gonna be looking at doing that through a programme called the Neuro Ambassadors' programme, which was developed by Melissa Leggett."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":196.655,"endTime":205.20999999999998,"body":"She's coming on the show today to tell us how to use in out school tips and tricks and strategies for getting that right. So stay tuned for that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":205.75,"endTime":209.11,"body":"If you're finding the show useful, please remember to like and subscribe."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.11,"endTime":215.11,"body":"It takes just 15 seconds to press those buttons, but it does make a real difference to us."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":215.11,"endTime":221.715,"body":"Because when you do that, it prompts the algorithm to share the show with other listeners, other teachers, school leaders,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":221.715,"endTime":227.155,"body":"and and parents just like you who need this information to support the children they work with."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":227.155,"endTime":231.39499999999998,"body":"So by liking and subscribing, you're helping get this information out there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":231.39499999999998,"endTime":236.9,"body":"And if you're listening to the audio version of the podcast, please leave a review as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":236.96,"endTime":238.79999999999998,"body":"I love hearing what you think about the show."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.79999999999998,"endTime":241.14,"body":"It gives me a little bit of encouragement to keep going."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":241.44,"endTime":247.605,"body":"If you're listening to the show as well, we've got a download that complements this episode really well. It's a free download."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":247.605,"endTime":254.405,"body":"It's called the SEND behaviour handbook, and what it helps teachers do is link the behaviours that you might be seeing from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":254.405,"endTime":260.34000000000003,"body":"pupils in class to possible underlying conditions like ADHD or autism or trauma."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.64,"endTime":266.98,"body":"It's not trying to turn teachers into doctors. We're not qualified to diagnose kids. That's the realm of medical professionals."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.36,"endTime":273.92499999999995,"body":"But if we as teachers can start to join the dots between the behaviours we're seeing and possible underlying causes, we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":273.92499999999995,"endTime":280.265,"body":"the people that often kick start the process of getting the right professionals involved so the kids can get early intervention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":280.325,"endTime":286.725,"body":"strategies in place and the right agencies in place they need to support them. It's a completely free download. It's the SEND behaviour handbook."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":286.725,"endTime":293.59000000000003,"body":"You will find it on our site, beaconschoolsupport.co.uk, and I will drop direct links to where you can get your own free"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":293.59000000000003,"endTime":303.21000000000004,"body":"copy of the handbook in the comments if you're watching on YouTube or in the episode description if you're listening to the audio version of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":303.905,"endTime":306.065,"body":"That said, it's time to move on to our interview."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":306.065,"endTime":310.32399999999996,"body":"So this is Melissa Leggett talking about the Neuro Ambassadors programme."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":310.385,"endTime":313.845,"body":"I'm very excited to welcome Melissa Leggett to the show today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":313.985,"endTime":320.61,"body":"Melissa is the autism resource based specialist teacher and a computer science teacher at Southend High School for boys."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":320.61,"endTime":327.97,"body":"As the creator of the Neuro Ambassadors' programme and a director of Neuro Inclusion UK, Melissa is dedicated to all people's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":327.97,"endTime":334.495,"body":"learning about a neurodiversity, why it should be celebrated, and how they can help their peers."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":334.495,"endTime":344.03499999999997,"body":"Neuro Ambassadors started as an idea back in July 2022 and is now being implemented both in the UK and around the world. Melissa, welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":344.095,"endTime":345.31499999999994,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.93999999999994,"endTime":355.46000000000004,"body":"I thought it would be useful to start by asking because the language around neurodiversity has evolved a lot, especially in sort of the last 18 months."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":355.46000000000004,"endTime":363.145,"body":"And there will be people coming to this topic completely fresh, completely new, who might not be sure of some of the terms we're using."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":363.145,"endTime":367.46500000000003,"body":"And it's gonna be helpful for me as well to get an update on on what the current terminology is."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":367.46500000000003,"endTime":373.23900000000003,"body":"So could you just walk us through some of the terms that you're gonna be using during the interview so we all know what they mean and we've got clarity."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":373.23900000000003,"endTime":375.57899999999995,"body":"We're all using the same definitions for the same words."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":375.88,"endTime":381.41999999999996,"body":"Absolutely. So neurodiversity is referring to the entire population."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":382.519,"endTime":390.505,"body":"It's people that are neurodivergent, so that covers autism, ADHD, Tourettes, dyslexia, etc."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":391.125,"endTime":404.51,"body":"All of those, are neurodivergent conditions, but you can have so when we talk about neurodivergence and those that are not neurodivergent, that whole umbrella is neurodiversity."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":405.45000000000005,"endTime":411.15,"body":"It can sometimes be thought of that people say neurodiversity, and they're actually say referring to neurodivergent."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":412.01,"endTime":417.55499999999995,"body":"So in neurodiversity be like in the in the Venn diagram, that that's that covers everything?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":417.61400000000003,"endTime":427.97900000000004,"body":"That's it. That's it. And the some people, can find the word neurotypical, (although that word has been used for quite some"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":427.97900000000004,"endTime":437.1,"body":"time), some people can find that, offensive because when you're using that word, the word typical, that's being used in there,"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":437.1,"endTime":446.745,"body":"if we put that as a meaning of, you know, we could have a synonym there as normal, the opposite of that is then going to be"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":446.745,"endTime":450.28499999999997,"body":"atypical, not normal, and so people can then feel that that is offensive."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":451.144,"endTime":454.36400000000003,"body":"So the term I'll be using is predominant neurotype."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":455.36,"endTime":465.46000000000004,"body":"And what I'm meaning by that is that in the entire population statistically, the predominant neurotype would be non or not neurodivergent."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":466.32000000000005,"endTime":477.525,"body":"But in a household where it's, you know, it's it's hereditary that the if you are neurodivergent, then the predominant neurotype in that household is, neurodivergent."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":477.905,"endTime":482.725,"body":"So it can be both depending on which context it is and can be seen as more affirming."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":483.17999999999995,"endTime":487.76,"body":"That that that makes that makes perfect sense. So now we've, clarified the terms."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":488.14,"endTime":490.32000000000005,"body":"Let's talk about the Neuro Ambassador programme."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":490.86,"endTime":499.82500000000005,"body":"Before we get into the details about what that actually is, can you talk a little bit about what prompted you and what inspired you to to create the programme?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":501.16499999999996,"endTime":507.58500000000004,"body":"Honestly, it was to do with, the journey I went through with my son and his identification, process."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":507.645,"endTime":511.32500000000005,"body":"So he's, you know, I know I'm biased, but he's awesome."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":511.32500000000005,"endTime":518.069,"body":"He's, he loves to climb, spin, you know, shuffling coasters is the most frequent one we're doing at the moment."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":518.289,"endTime":523.829,"body":"But, you know, he also manages autism, ADHD, global developmental delay."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":523.889,"endTime":528.445,"body":"You know, we've got sensory processing and, you know, listen, there's quite a few things that he manages."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":528.445,"endTime":535.905,"body":"And it was going through that journey with him that also led me to self discovery. I now, identify as autistic myself."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":536.685,"endTime":543.88,"body":"But we'd find as a family when we're out and about that sometimes people would not be as helpful as they possibly could be."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":544.579,"endTime":552.76,"body":"And we you know, I genuinely think that sometimes or most of the time, ignorance often leads to unkindness."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":553.06,"endTime":560.855,"body":"So when I, you know, when I genuinely think about it, although those experiences may not have been always helpful, I think"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":560.855,"endTime":567.515,"body":"most of the time, people just didn't know too much about what was going on, when I think from their perspective."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":568.39,"endTime":572.71,"body":"And often I found that once people do know a little bit more, oh, okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":572.71,"endTime":575.03,"body":"What can I do to support in that kind of case?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":575.03,"endTime":579.29,"body":"So I wanted Ollie to be, whatever he wanted to be when he was older."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":579.91,"endTime":593.845,"body":"And so I started researching and I found some statistics that I refused, to accept, both about the, autism employment gap, but also the neurodivergent employment gap."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":594.145,"endTime":597.26,"body":"And mother bear came out and it was just like, no."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":597.42,"endTime":599.84,"body":"What have I gotta do to make this right for my son?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":600.3000000000001,"endTime":604.0,"body":"And I started thinking about how do I achieve it. So I started working backwards."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":604.0600000000001,"endTime":606.22,"body":"Before we go on to that can I ask you one more question about that?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":606.22,"endTime":610.16,"body":"You talk about the the autism employment gap. What does that mean?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":610.9150000000001,"endTime":618.115,"body":"So our listeners have a a clear idea about what the outcomes for our autistic pupils are when they leave school or our new,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":618.115,"endTime":621.975,"body":"you know, neurodivergent pupils are when they when they leave school?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":622.275,"endTime":632.23,"body":"So we're talking that, I know that the figure fluctuates each year for each report, but we're looking at less than 27% of"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":632.23,"endTime":639.53,"body":"autistic adults are in employment when the vast majority that were asked want to be in employment."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":639.825,"endTime":646.145,"body":"And, you know, when you then link that with the various bits that, the correlated links with mental health, for example, it's"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":646.145,"endTime":653.02,"body":"not too difficult to make that link between and how, you know can you imagine how that must feel of being denied what you"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":653.02,"endTime":662.62,"body":"want to do just because of a part of your identity that isn't allowed with a lot of other protected characteristics, in a person's identity. Yeah. It happens here."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":662.62,"endTime":666.48,"body":"And when you found that out, how did that how did that make you feel as a as a parent?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":666.9250000000001,"endTime":674.125,"body":"It's, it started off a lot with, anger that I thought to myself that it's just it's not okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":674.125,"endTime":677.985,"body":"How can we be in this, day and age and that that that's still the case."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":678.765,"endTime":685.499,"body":"I also started to have a bit of disbelief, and I know that some people listening that may be aware of that statistic, they"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":685.499,"endTime":689.82,"body":"might then come back and say, well, actually and I I do get this point."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":689.82,"endTime":696.905,"body":"I'm not denying it, but it's there's also the point of, well, there's lots of people that haven't been diagnosed. For example, they haven't been identified."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":697.0450000000001,"endTime":701.945,"body":"So is that then that's gonna be skewing the, the data that's coming through there?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":702.004,"endTime":712.13,"body":"Like, for myself, I identify as autistic, but I also don't have the £900 to be able to pay for the piece of paper to say for definite that it is."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":712.13,"endTime":715.59,"body":"It's just through going through that journey that I self identify that way."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":715.73,"endTime":723.504,"body":"So it's I know that the data isn't always gonna be completely like that, but it was as a mother, it's it yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":723.504,"endTime":726.725,"body":"Anger was my first bit, and then how do I fix it?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":726.785,"endTime":730.225,"body":"And then you went on from there to creating the Neuro Ambassadors programme. Is that right?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":730.225,"endTime":738.6890000000001,"body":"Absolutely. And, you know, when I think about I started thinking, well, I've gone on this journey with my son, and I found out all of these different things. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":738.6890000000001,"endTime":749.755,"body":"I had, my son was born in 2016, and I did my teacher training in 2013, 2014, but I didn't know any of these things."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":749.755,"endTime":757.4350000000001,"body":"I remember in my teacher training that it was it was the done thing, of what was happening, with how SEND was done."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":757.4350000000001,"endTime":762.999,"body":"It wasn't like how it was any different to any of my peers or colleagues I've worked with since, but It was essentially along"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":762.999,"endTime":768.46,"body":"the lines of, this is the Code of Conduct. Be aware of it. Bye bye."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":768.52,"endTime":774.22,"body":"I'm then going into, a school setting, and I think I know what I need to know."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":775.225,"endTime":781.945,"body":"But, really, I didn't know what I didn't know, and it was only then going through this process that I then realised how ignorant"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":781.945,"endTime":787.325,"body":"I was to a lot of the different, needs that pupils have."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":787.45,"endTime":793.85,"body":"So the the inspiration came from that, and I was thinking I needed this programme to be able to both support staff as well as"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":793.85,"endTime":803.1750000000001,"body":"pupils, in their learning and felt that I was very lucky with the school that I'm in that they are their whole ethos is around"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":803.1750000000001,"endTime":804.875,"body":"what's in the best interest of the pupil."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":805.095,"endTime":812.96,"body":"What do we need to do to make that make sure that pupils get what they need to get, to be well rounded individuals? Yes,"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":813.0400000000001,"endTime":819.0400000000001,"body":"the academics that, is it plays its important part, but what's gonna help them be a well rounded individual?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":819.0400000000001,"endTime":820.9,"body":"So the programme was then very welcome."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":822.16,"endTime":826.48,"body":"And I think I think the timing is great, actually, because when you look at the education system in general, I think we've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":826.48,"endTime":829.125,"body":"lost sight of what education is for."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":829.125,"endTime":834.345,"body":"It's just it's not just for how many GCSE grades we churn out or SATS grades or or whatever it is."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":834.405,"endTime":841.64,"body":"As a teaching profession, we need to do a lot of thinking about what education is about and and what its purpose is."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":841.64,"endTime":847.32,"body":"And I like that you talk about empathy and teachers not knowing what they know because I come across many parents, and they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":847.32,"endTime":849.96,"body":"very frustrated with the school and the teacher that they might have."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":849.96,"endTime":855.1650000000001,"body":"But I believe in empathy for everyone, and and most of the most of the adults in the classroom are there because they wanna"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":855.1650000000001,"endTime":858.285,"body":"help kids and they enjoy working with kids, but they don't know what they don't know."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":858.285,"endTime":859.965,"body":"And that that's not necessarily their fault."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":859.965,"endTime":864.845,"body":"They've been let down by training and induction, and and we need to look at those things okay."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":864.845,"endTime":871.36,"body":"So we've got the way we set up the Neuro Ambassadors' programme is to give the the pupils and the teachers their knowledge they need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":871.36,"endTime":877.84,"body":"to to help all students flourish and succeed and feel accepted. So we've done enough teasing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":877.84,"endTime":881.76,"body":"What how is the programme structured, and how do you actually deliver it in school?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":881.76,"endTime":884.0450000000001,"body":"Let let me imagine what this looks like."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":884.0450000000001,"endTime":888.5450000000001,"body":"If if I was a school leader listening to this, what does it look like actually in school?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":889.565,"endTime":898.5450000000001,"body":"Okay. So we first off wanna make sure that we haven't got one neurotype ever been seen to be pitying the other."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":898.69,"endTime":908.63,"body":"We want it to be that both neurotypes so every pupil, is both learning as well as teaching someone else."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":909.57,"endTime":915.4250000000001,"body":"So what I wanted to do along with that teaching was also deal with that employment gap."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":915.4250000000001,"endTime":917.285,"body":"So I took a 3 pronged approach."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":918.145,"endTime":929.21,"body":"I have, or you will have learning tasks, which will be teaching pupils around neurodiversity, so about all neurotypes, why"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":929.21,"endTime":934.91,"body":"it should be celebrated, how they can support their peers in the classroom, but then later on in the workplace."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":935.9300000000001,"endTime":944.285,"body":"There's mentoring tasks, so to teach pupils leadership skills, by teaching another human being a skill."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":944.4250000000001,"endTime":949.945,"body":"It was important to me that this didn't become a barrier because I know that, you know, one pupil may love the thought of"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":949.945,"endTime":954.26,"body":"telling you know, saying do this, do this, do this, or, you know, and and go through that teaching process."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":954.799,"endTime":956.799,"body":"But others, that could be their worst nightmare."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":956.799,"endTime":960.9,"body":"So it's making sure that everyone felt that they were enabled to be able to mentor."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":961.0400000000001,"endTime":966.58,"body":"So we've got learning, we've got the mentoring, and we've then got the work related tasks. That was the 3rd prong."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":967.145,"endTime":975.065,"body":"And so with that, you know, when we think about I'm thinking for myself be, as autistic, I I would say that something that"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":975.065,"endTime":977.725,"body":"I can find really difficult is to change the routine."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":978.505,"endTime":988.34,"body":"And, you know, when we think about children in their school educational journey, they have 14 years of doing the same structure that they have lessons."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":988.5600000000001,"endTime":993.62,"body":"They'll have break time at a certain time and that they, you know, all these different things."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":993.865,"endTime":997.145,"body":"And then it gets to the point where they're 18 and okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":997.145,"endTime":1001.965,"body":"So by the way, now you've got a change of place because of where you're going to. You've got different people."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1002.4250000000001,"endTime":1007.705,"body":"They might be different from one day to the next as well and that you've got different tasks that could vary because everyone"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1007.705,"endTime":1010.77,"body":"loves change, and that the support isn't there."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1010.77,"endTime":1018.2900000000001,"body":"So it was trying to you know, in a utopian society, yeah, of course, we'd be able to have this, work experience that'd be"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1018.2900000000001,"endTime":1023.875,"body":"from a very early age and that they build it up and it's obviously age appropriate tasks and so on."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1023.875,"endTime":1027.655,"body":"But I mean, like, they would have it so it becomes this gradual part of their routine."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1028.0349999999999,"endTime":1034.195,"body":"But that isn't gonna be something that's achievable in our situation at the moment, you know, and it won't be appropriate"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1034.195,"endTime":1036.72,"body":"in most in in necessarily in various place."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1036.72,"endTime":1040.02,"body":"It needed to be that children can make mistakes."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1040.48,"endTime":1048.32,"body":"Children can be able to, try different things out, try different vocations. What if they don't know?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1048.32,"endTime":1054.064,"body":"I didn't know what I want to be, you know, when I was younger and I've always just kind of, okay, I'll give that a go."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1054.064,"endTime":1056.705,"body":"See, I'll get on with that and, you know, and I've worked my way through."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1056.705,"endTime":1060.165,"body":"But I know some people that have known exactly what they want to be from day dot."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1060.225,"endTime":1063.905,"body":"But it's being able to allow the children to be able to do that."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1063.905,"endTime":1071.26,"body":"So for our school, we ended up having it as trips to go to employers, and we did some of their tasks."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1071.799,"endTime":1080.46,"body":"We had Mel and Jill from Department of Work and Pensions come in, and they provided talks around anxiety and preparing for interviews."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1081.045,"endTime":1085.145,"body":"We had Rachel from Dig Data and our partners, and we're doing on how to handle money."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1086.085,"endTime":1087.925,"body":"Did a trip to TP"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1087.925,"endTime":1091.865,"body":"Bennett and over Brynn, we did architecture and construction based tasks."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1092.405,"endTime":1099.8999999999999,"body":"Although they were right for our setting, the point and the bit I hope that, leaders will take away from this podcast is it's mouldable."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1100.6,"endTime":1107.82,"body":"The main point is, I my aim from data was that I wanted there to be a societal, shift."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1108.415,"endTime":1113.715,"body":"And if I say that one size fits all for how I've done this, then I've missed the whole point."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1113.935,"endTime":1116.2549999999999,"body":"It needs to be something where leaders are thinking, okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1116.2549999999999,"endTime":1118.7549999999999,"body":"Well, this is the main thing we're trying to achieve here."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1119.455,"endTime":1126.74,"body":"Their professional judgment of what's right in their setting, then making that call of, okay, well, how are we gonna do that? How are we gonna do that? How are we gonna do that?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1126.74,"endTime":1129.3,"body":"It can be done as an extra curricular club."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1129.3,"endTime":1133.48,"body":"That's what we started off with as, you know, as a test of concept."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1134.4199999999998,"endTime":1139.165,"body":"It can be that it's actually slotted within to the PSHE tutor time curriculum."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1139.3049999999998,"endTime":1142.605,"body":"It's it's completely mouldable to what school wants."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1143.3049999999998,"endTime":1145.965,"body":"How is it delivered? Is it is it like a a framework?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1146.024,"endTime":1152.2099999999998,"body":"I mean, you've you've obviously talked about how these things need to be personalized and adapted, but you've talked about, like, a series of activities."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1152.2099999999998,"endTime":1156.9299999999998,"body":"Is is it like, is it like a curriculum or a framework or a scheme of what what what does it look like?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1156.9299999999998,"endTime":1164.4699999999998,"body":"When I've done it as the, extracurricular, I have so when I was testing this out because last year, this was all just a pilot"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1164.855,"endTime":1167.915,"body":"that we were just trying to see how could we make this work."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1168.615,"endTime":1173.675,"body":"And I did it based on where you've got your bronze, your silver, and your gold tier."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1174.5339999999999,"endTime":1177.8149999999998,"body":"And so I would put these tasks on."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1177.8149999999998,"endTime":1181.61,"body":"We use in our school, but it's where you can play time work."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1182.6299999999999,"endTime":1188.79,"body":"And I put each of these different tasks on there, made it something where I didn't need to do lots of admin to do it."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1188.79,"endTime":1192.33,"body":"So self marking quizzes and things and bits and pieces like that."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1192.435,"endTime":1195.415,"body":"But it the main point was that the pupils could do this independently."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1196.435,"endTime":1202.2949999999998,"body":"My biggest focus was that what's gonna be something that's gonna put someone off."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1202.675,"endTime":1206.2199999999998,"body":"And I was thinking, well, teacher workload and money."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1206.2199999999998,"endTime":1213.259,"body":"So whenever I was planning these things, I was thinking, right, if, if I I was in a position at the time where I could give"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1213.259,"endTime":1214.6999999999998,"body":"it this time, but what if I didn't?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1214.6999999999998,"endTime":1218.3,"body":"And I was also thinking my, you know, my timetable was gonna be quite different this year and so on."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1218.3,"endTime":1220.1589999999999,"body":"I needed it to be something that was sustainable."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1220.715,"endTime":1222.975,"body":"And so, yeah, I had most of it online."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1223.355,"endTime":1230.5549999999998,"body":"I would have, I had some volunteer teachers that were happy to just check-in with some of the, the pupils just to see how"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1230.5549999999998,"endTime":1235.3739999999998,"body":"they were getting on, but it was something I I could do myself as just one person that was managing it."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1235.82,"endTime":1240.08,"body":"But we was trying to make it more bespoke and seeing how that would work with our pupils as well."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1240.6999999999998,"endTime":1247.1,"body":"When we're doing it this year, so for example, the whole school integration, we've got it both as an extracurricular club,"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1247.1,"endTime":1251.435,"body":"but we've also got it as part of our tutor time programme."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1251.8149999999998,"endTime":1264.1589999999999,"body":"So we've got 6 sessions in the January, February, part of the year where we'll have every single pupil in our school will"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1264.1589999999999,"endTime":1268.6589999999999,"body":"be having this bit first talked to them, an introduction to Neuro Ambassadors."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1269.6799999999998,"endTime":1277.615,"body":"And likewise, then all the new year 7s will get that particular delivery, and year 8 onwards would then get the update with more knowledge and so on."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1277.935,"endTime":1287.615,"body":"So that by in 7 years' time, we're gonna have these pupils that are leaving with 7 years' worth of knowledge, around how to"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1287.615,"endTime":1289.235,"body":"support the peers and what about neurodiversity."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1289.935,"endTime":1295.81,"body":"And one of the primary schools that's working with us, they're doing it from their point as well."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1295.81,"endTime":1304.87,"body":"So then it will be the children that start there will then have 13 years worth of knowledge around it, which I think is really powerful as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1306.375,"endTime":1314.475,"body":"So you talked about how it how it's integrated, and you're moving from the pilot now to a more kind of whole school embedded system."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1314.615,"endTime":1322.4699999999998,"body":"I'm always really interested in what lessons you learned in terms of implementation. You do a pilot. You make mistakes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1322.4699999999998,"endTime":1329.29,"body":"Everyone makes mistakes, not just in terms of the content, but but how you integrate that into the school day."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1329.415,"endTime":1332.2949999999998,"body":"I'm just curious if if you've got any experience you could share."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1332.2949999999998,"endTime":1334.875,"body":"People are thinking about running with this in their school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1335.2549999999999,"endTime":1339.435,"body":"Things to avoid so they don't repeat the mistakes that we made in the past."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1339.735,"endTime":1350.1699999999998,"body":"I think that one of the biggest challenges was trying to find employers or organizations that were able to work with us to"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1350.1699999999998,"endTime":1355.1499999999999,"body":"do those kind of trips because we're so new and so and so unheard of."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1355.9299999999998,"endTime":1358.09,"body":"It was then trying to find those connections."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1358.09,"endTime":1361.1029999999998,"body":"So that was one thing that we ended up having to overcome."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1361.1029999999998,"endTime":1373.4699999999998,"body":"But now as of today, we're going to have it, in schools, and they're showing interest in the UK, Africa, USA, and Azerbaijan."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1374.2489999999998,"endTime":1384.7489999999998,"body":"And we've got along with, us doing this, interview today, I'm also running, you know, based on the success that this has taken, we've actually started a company."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1385.2099999999998,"endTime":1393.8249999999998,"body":"Me and some of my wonderful colleagues both in this school and out, you know, we've got, you know, SENCO's speech and language therapists."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1393.8249999999998,"endTime":1401.8449999999998,"body":"We've got people from different settings, people that have a lot of wealth and experience, that just really feel passionate about these calls."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1403.149,"endTime":1408.2099999999998,"body":"And we're then trying to make these resources to make it easier for schools to just pick up and be able to deliver."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1408.51,"endTime":1414.4299999999998,"body":"So because that's one of the other things is that, yes, I've done this this year, but what was one of the biggest challenges"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1414.4299999999998,"endTime":1418.245,"body":"was, you know, that initial bit of making the resources and and those kind of things."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1418.245,"endTime":1426.404,"body":"So one of the things that this business is doing, so Neuro Inclusion UK, is providing teaching materials, for people to be"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1426.404,"endTime":1434.6299999999999,"body":"able to run with and just delivering their sessions as they want to, whether it's consultancy, whether it's, you know, bespoke"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1434.85,"endTime":1438.7099999999998,"body":"materials to their individual setting, training, etc."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1439.09,"endTime":1447.144,"body":"So it was trying to make sure that the bits that we had to overcome, we're making it easier then for, the next schools to"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1447.144,"endTime":1448.925,"body":"then find it a bit easier to do that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1449.3049999999998,"endTime":1458.57,"body":"What would you say to a teacher who was worried about saying the wrong kind of thing, using the wrong kind of terminology, or or making mistakes with this?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1458.57,"endTime":1464.73,"body":"Because sometimes issues like this can be on social media, they can flare up and things like that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1464.73,"endTime":1468.9699999999998,"body":"And they're a little bit nervous, and they wanna help, but they're nervous about getting it wrong."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1468.9699999999998,"endTime":1470.8149999999998,"body":"What what would you say to someone like that?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1471.455,"endTime":1479.715,"body":"Someone said to me once, it's I think what matters most is do you have hatred in your heart when you're saying it?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1480.5749999999998,"endTime":1493.8899999999999,"body":"And if the answer to that is no, then I think we can safely say that the person is doing their best and is trying to make society a better place. We're all human. We all make mistakes."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1493.9499999999998,"endTime":1504.415,"body":"And I I think as long as you're being aware of, you know, I am trying to say or use the correct terminology and accept that, you know what?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1505.115,"endTime":1507.115,"body":"I might make a mistake from time to time."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1507.115,"endTime":1509.2099999999998,"body":"If I do, challenge me on it."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1509.2099999999998,"endTime":1515.07,"body":"I'll read up on it, and that we can then take that as a learning opportunity to move on with it afterwards."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1515.6899999999998,"endTime":1522.4089999999999,"body":"But sometimes fear of saying the wrong thing can stop you from actually trying to do the right thing in the first place."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1522.4089999999999,"endTime":1532.6239999999998,"body":"And I think when I did this with, our pupils, I said to them very early on, I said, you are going to be agents of change,"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1533.404,"endTime":1536.7839999999999,"body":"and we're gonna make mistakes as we go along on this journey."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1537.61,"endTime":1543.1299999999999,"body":"I want you to be telling me when I'm doing the wrong thing. Because don't get me wrong,"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1543.1299999999999,"endTime":1550.01,"body":"before I approach the pupils, I I, you know, I I did to try and do new research. I spoke to National Autistic Society. I spoke to Ambitious about autism."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1550.01,"endTime":1556.225,"body":"I went through all of the, you know, what I had planned and was asking for lots and lots of different charities."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1556.225,"endTime":1560.965,"body":"I was saying, can you find something wrong with what I'm saying so that I can change it?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1562.705,"endTime":1564.5449999999998,"body":"And each time it was, oh, great."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1564.5449999999998,"endTime":1568.145,"body":"That makes our, you know, what we're trying to achieve and it there wasn't."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1568.145,"endTime":1575.34,"body":"But, know, in its very early stages, what it is now isn't what it was then, and I've tried to mould it because it was when"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1575.34,"endTime":1580.76,"body":"I was talking about barriers earlier when I first thought of, oh, everyone's mentoring."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1581.5949999999998,"endTime":1588.895,"body":"But it was only when I started thinking, oh, actually, that person, he's finding that a bit tricky to engage with."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1589.5949999999998,"endTime":1592.715,"body":"I need to make a change there. True learning doesn't take place."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1592.715,"endTime":1597.57,"body":"I know it sounds cliche as I'm saying this, but true learning doesn't take place unless you make a mistake."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1597.81,"endTime":1604.85,"body":"And it's I think it's been an opportunity that I could really model to the pupils. It's okay. Adults make mistakes as well."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1604.85,"endTime":1610.9499999999998,"body":"And I think each time even when I've I've said to them, you know, you're my guiding compass here."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1611.264,"endTime":1620.965,"body":"It needs to be whatever we do, you need to be making or giving feedback on what is gonna make people want to do this next year."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1621.185,"endTime":1626.165,"body":"At the moment, you're, you know, you've you're eager and you wanted to help me out, and that's wonderful."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1627.49,"endTime":1633.4099999999999,"body":"But let's say I'm opening this up to the whole school next year. What is gonna be our barriers?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1633.4099999999999,"endTime":1640.3899999999999,"body":"And so it was their guidance, and we just treated it as we're all in this together. We're all equals in this. How do we make this happen?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1640.655,"endTime":1648.3349999999998,"body":"I think if you have that kind of culture where you're treating the young people as adults, that really comes as a powerful"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1648.3349999999998,"endTime":1650.915,"body":"way that we're all in this together. We all wanna do good."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1651.2949999999998,"endTime":1657.3799999999999,"body":"I'd like to think big picture now about the impact you've seen the programme have."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1657.52,"endTime":1663.78,"body":"And I I'm not just thinking about individual pupils, but I wanna think about the range of neurotypes, children, adults."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1664.56,"endTime":1670.02,"body":"So what changes have you seen as a result of using the your program?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1670.754,"endTime":1679.475,"body":"I think the staff are becoming more, happy to talk around, strategies and oh, okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1679.475,"endTime":1681.235,"body":"What if we tried this or what if we tried that?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1681.235,"endTime":1683.955,"body":"Just the confidence around talking about the subject."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1683.955,"endTime":1688.56,"body":"You know, that part of where you said earlier about not wanting to say the wrong thing, for example."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1688.86,"endTime":1691.8999999999999,"body":"It's just, okay, what if I should try this? What do you think?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1691.8999999999999,"endTime":1693.9199999999998,"body":"And it's just having that open dialogue."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1694.2199999999998,"endTime":1698.0,"body":"I think people become more confident with having those kind of conversations."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1698.62,"endTime":1704.5649999999998,"body":"I think with well, one of the things we know is where is, those that did the extracurricular club, they got a badge on the"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1704.5649999999998,"endTime":1711.225,"body":"blazer for being the ambassador, and it then encouraged the conversation just quite naturally between staff and pupils"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1711.524,"endTime":1713.29,"body":"that they would, oh, what was that badge for?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1713.369,"endTime":1718.4299999999998,"body":"Oh, it's because I did this, and it just became something that was just part of the conversation there."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1718.81,"endTime":1726.649,"body":"And it's wanting it also to be from a point of view that we want to put pupils on an even playing field."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1726.649,"endTime":1729.0649999999998,"body":"If we think that and that's all pupils."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1729.0649999999998,"endTime":1736.524,"body":"I'm wanting it to be that I'm wearing glasses right now, but if I was to say, right, I want you to run-in a straight line,"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1736.745,"endTime":1744.9889999999998,"body":"but you can't have your glasses on, and I want you to follow this, etc, and I'm going then against someone that doesn't need glasses."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1745.85,"endTime":1748.1899999999998,"body":"If I didn't have the glasses on, you'd say that was unfair."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1748.7289999999998,"endTime":1756.029,"body":"But it's trying to get across that point, and that's what we're really starting to see is that change between fair and equal."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1756.5449999999998,"endTime":1763.665,"body":"It's making sure that everyone feels or actually, you know, the questions of why are they doing it differently or actually"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1763.665,"endTime":1774.4699999999998,"body":"it'ss what's a fair thing for that person and pupils and staff seeing it as that's what we should be doing and seeing that societal shift."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1774.61,"endTime":1784.05,"body":"And when I think we've, impact wise with when we went to Overbury, and TP Bennett, Overbury since have ended up making the"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1784.05,"endTime":1792.5249999999999,"body":"neurodivergent, like, quiet spaces in their sites based on what they learned when we were giving them the, some of the, training,"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1792.745,"endTime":1795.165,"body":"you know, of what would benefit some of our pupils."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1795.5449999999998,"endTime":1803.9199999999998,"body":"It's been really quite wow, for me to see that big change and, you know, I've been told I should describe myself as tenacious."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1804.1399999999999,"endTime":1806.9599999999998,"body":"That's a better word for me to use. I say dog with a bone."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1807.74,"endTime":1813.34,"body":"But, you know, I genuinely feel that this is something that it should just be taught."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1813.34,"endTime":1815.84,"body":"It should just be something that's part of the curriculum."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1816.675,"endTime":1824.0549999999998,"body":"And when I think back to, you know, there was a pupil that was speaking to an Ofsted inspector, that came in recently."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1824.915,"endTime":1828.2749999999999,"body":"And they were because they wanted to find out a bit more about the programme."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1828.2749999999999,"endTime":1832.4399999999998,"body":"They were very interested in the programme, and it made its way into their report."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1833.3,"endTime":1842.84,"body":"But one of the pupils was asked, you know, have you ever come across, any discriminatory language, around the school?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1844.3249999999998,"endTime":1848.984,"body":"And the person's response, he took a deep breath, and he said, yes."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1850.244,"endTime":1852.984,"body":"But I don't think it was coming from a place of malice."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1853.8449999999998,"endTime":1862.3899999999999,"body":"I think it was coming from, ignorance, and I felt that I had the tools and the knowledge to be able to challenge it."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1862.6899999999998,"endTime":1865.59,"body":"And that person hasn't said anything like that again since."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1867.09,"endTime":1875.935,"body":"And when you think, you know, it would be naive to think that children don't make mistakes in school. You know, it it happens."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1876.7949999999998,"endTime":1885.1899999999998,"body":"That's part of why they are taught, you know, and how they are taught is to make sure that when they leave school, they know"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1885.1899999999998,"endTime":1888.4089999999999,"body":"what's right and what's wrong when they're in the, you know, in society."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1889.27,"endTime":1896.25,"body":"But if they then already are feeling like they can challenge that, they can already make a change before they've even finished school."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1896.5949999999998,"endTime":1898.855,"body":"And isn't that the kind of thing that we're after?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1898.915,"endTime":1901.8149999999998,"body":"Absolutely. I think I think you're a 100% right there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1901.875,"endTime":1906.115,"body":"And understanding that people make mistakes, it's not all about malice."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1906.115,"endTime":1915.36,"body":"It's sometimes it's about not understanding or not being exposed to that information to be able to understand what they're seeing in the language they're using."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1915.899,"endTime":1922.7199999999998,"body":"I would love to hear, before we finish, about an individual success story that you've had using the Neuro Ambassadors' programme."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1923.955,"endTime":1934.455,"body":"I would say that of 1 pupil, he joined our school a little bit later, and he had never been on a school trip before."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1934.5949999999998,"endTime":1950.1,"body":"He joined us and, was a little bit nervous, but he ended up coming on, that trip with us, which, we have both neurodivergent and non neurodivergent peoples that attended."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1950.445,"endTime":1953.485,"body":"We did a visual story so he knew what to expect. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1953.485,"endTime":1967.629,"body":"We gave, you know, gave him a full rundown the pictures of the spaces because that's where we were doing that training with, with Overbury and T. P. Bennett on that. And he got on that trip. He went to that trip."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1967.629,"endTime":1975.4699999999998,"body":"He did all of the various activities on that trip, and then was on the way back was then saying, can we do a trip to Disneyland Paris?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1975.4699999999998,"endTime":1980.235,"body":"I thought, wow, that was I thought that was quite a a big jump. You know?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1980.235,"endTime":1987.195,"body":"But, you know, in terms of the the when I say that this pupil hadn't been on a trip before, it wasn't because of means of"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1987.2749999999999,"endTime":1995.53,"body":"it was they didn't feel comfortable to be able to go on that trip because of their need to be met, and that they would feel"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":1995.6899999999998,"endTime":2002.1699999999998,"body":"you know, if they needed to have a moment to regulate, they, you know, they felt comfortable enough to do that and that they"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2002.1699999999998,"endTime":2010.365,"body":"knew they were surrounded by people that understood and were accepting, of what that person needed."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2010.745,"endTime":2012.2649999999999,"body":"That trust is massive, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2012.2649999999999,"endTime":2015.865,"body":"Because it it helps kids really push themselves and extend themselves."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2015.865,"endTime":2018.03,"body":"Otherwise, like you say, they kind of retreat away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2019.4699999999998,"endTime":2026.03,"body":"If you're a teacher or school leader listening to this or watching this today, what's the first step you would advise them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2026.03,"endTime":2031.904,"body":"to take to start supporting children with different neurotypes in in their school?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2032.0449999999998,"endTime":2040.8449999999998,"body":"I think that, first of all, you know, looking at our SecEd article, which gives a bit more detail of what, this bit's about"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2040.8449999999998,"endTime":2045.665,"body":"and finding us on social media, whether it's Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2046.82,"endTime":2055.2400000000002,"body":"And when our first set of resources go live, hopefully towards the end of this month, or early next month, you can follow those."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2055.7,"endTime":2064.675,"body":"But I think it's just been accepting that you don't necessarily know everything. No one does. And okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2065.215,"endTime":2069.135,"body":"What how how can I actually go about finding out a little bit more?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2069.135,"endTime":2072.255,"body":"How can we make sure that peoples do know a little bit more?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2072.255,"endTime":2084.95,"body":"So if they aren't necessarily aware of, you know, difference, they have the tools to support the people that they're with afterwards. So I think it's being aware. Yes."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2084.95,"endTime":2090.955,"body":"Following us for with the business side of things that we can then support with, the delivery in your schools."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2092.215,"endTime":2099.654,"body":"But I also think with looking at your school practice as well of do you really need a bell going off, to tell people that"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2099.654,"endTime":2105.21,"body":"the end of the lesson, it's looking at little things like we've we've gone to, we don't use bells anymore."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2105.21,"endTime":2108.97,"body":"We just use a watch, and that's when we say that people can go."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2108.97,"endTime":2115.61,"body":"But, actually, the impact of that one little thing is that we haven't got someone that's been not able to concentrate in their"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2115.61,"endTime":2121.455,"body":"lesson because they're counting down how long it's gonna be until that terrible sound then starts."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2122.075,"endTime":2129.855,"body":"I'll put, links to to everything you've mentioned in the show notes if you're listening to the podcast or in the comments if you're watching this on YouTube."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2130.129,"endTime":2134.93,"body":"But, yeah, for people that are listening, maybe they're on the treadmill, maybe they just wanna lock the website away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2134.93,"endTime":2137.429,"body":"Where can they find out more about the program? Where do they go?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2137.81,"endTime":2139.0299999999997,"body":"They go to neuroinclusion.uk."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2142.225,"endTime":2144.725,"body":"And one last question, and we ask this of all our guests."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2145.585,"endTime":2151.9249999999997,"body":"Who is the key figure or what's the key book that you've read that's influenced your personal approach to working with kids?"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2152.065,"endTime":2156.805,"body":"My son for as, my main driver since, since he was born."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2158.52,"endTime":2169.4,"body":"But, otherwise, I would say my parents that they've always been very, accepting, very understanding, and even when, you know,"},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2169.4,"endTime":2175.985,"body":"maybe I didn't always feel quite like I fit the mould when I was growing up, etc."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2176.605,"endTime":2182.544,"body":"They always made me realize that I was awesome just the way I was, and they didn't need to change."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2182.765,"endTime":2185.025,"body":"Melissa, thank you for joining us today."},{"speaker":"Melissa Leggett","startTime":2185.165,"endTime":2185.9049999999997,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2186.49,"endTime":2189.79,"body":"And that was Melissa Leggett from the Neuro Ambassadors' programme."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2190.33,"endTime":2196.25,"body":"I wanna circle back to something Melissa said there that's really worth bearing in mind, not just about the Neuro Ambassadors"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2196.25,"endTime":2204.645,"body":"programme, but she talked about how sometimes as the adult, we can hold back from giving children the support they need and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2204.645,"endTime":2210.265,"body":"that they crave because we as the adult are worried about saying the wrong thing or making a mistake."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2210.645,"endTime":2219.7599999999998,"body":"But she said, if our intentions are good, then generally, the children will be accepting, and we learn as we go. That's the human condition."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2220.54,"endTime":2226.46,"body":"Making mistakes from a from a good place is is very different from saying unkind things from a place of malice."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2226.46,"endTime":2232.665,"body":"And I think that's really worth walking away with and and think about how that should inform our practice and the decisions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2232.665,"endTime":2235.485,"body":"we make about the support that we offer."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2235.625,"endTime":2237.4049999999997,"body":"I hope you found that useful this week."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2237.625,"endTime":2239.9449999999997,"body":"I'll put all the URLs that Melissa mentioned."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2239.9449999999997,"endTime":2245.77,"body":"I'll put them in the comments if you're watching this on YouTube, or I'll put them in the, episode description if you're listening"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2245.77,"endTime":2247.5499999999997,"body":"to the audio version of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2247.69,"endTime":2252.27,"body":"I hope you have a brilliant week, and I look forward to seeing you next time on School Behaviour Secrets."}]}