{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":87.35,"endTime":93.16999999999999,"body":"Have you ever worked with a pupil who just argues about everything, even the things that you"},{"startTime":93.16999999999999,"endTime":95.58999999999999,"body":"know they secretly agree with?"},{"startTime":95.69,"endTime":97.19,"body":"You say stand up, they sit down."},{"startTime":97.28999999999999,"endTime":100.58999999999999,"body":"You say good morning, and they reply no, it's not."},{"startTime":101.38999999999999,"endTime":107.78999999999999,"body":"Life in the classroom feels like one long argument or power battle. Yeah, those kids."},{"startTime":108.25,"endTime":113.58999999999999,"body":"Well, that constant tug of war might not just be stubbornness or attitude."},{"startTime":114.14999999999999,"endTime":117.94999999999999,"body":"It could be oppositional defiant disorder, or ODD."},{"startTime":118.44999999999999,"endTime":123.72999999999999,"body":"It's a really misunderstood condition that gets confused with other conditions, and understanding"},{"startTime":124.25,"endTime":128.43,"body":"what's driving ODD could change how you see those kids forever."},{"startTime":128.85,"endTime":134.07,"body":"So if you want to know more about this condition and strategies to use to support the kids that"},{"startTime":134.07,"endTime":136.69,"body":"you work with, then this episode's for you."},{"startTime":175.25,"endTime":181.01,"body":"Hi there, my name's Simon Currigan and welcome to this week's episode of School Behaviour Secrets."},{"startTime":181.55,"endTime":187.58999999999997,"body":"This week I've mostly been avoiding a sense of existential terror, brought on by my own unavoidable"},{"startTime":187.58999999999997,"endTime":192.07,"body":"demise by drinking vodka and doing crystal art."},{"startTime":192.13,"endTime":197.26999999999998,"body":"The crystal art took me a week, and it doesn't look anything like the picture on Amazon, although"},{"startTime":197.26999999999998,"endTime":204.57,"body":"whether that's the fault of the design or the empty bottle of vodka that's now in my recycling is open to debate."},{"startTime":204.99,"endTime":212.79,"body":"Which weirdly brings me to the tenuous link with today's topic, because sometimes student behaviour"},{"startTime":212.79,"endTime":219.37,"body":"that looks chaotic or random on the surface actually has a deeper pattern to it underneath,"},{"startTime":219.63,"endTime":225.65,"body":"especially when it comes to oppositional behaviour, and that's exactly what we're going to be looking at today."},{"startTime":225.65,"endTime":233.34,"body":"We're going to be diving into oppositional defiant disorder, or ODD. to unpack what ODD isn't,"},{"startTime":233.88,"endTime":240.79999999999998,"body":"what ODD actually is, what drives those behaviours you see from your students at school and"},{"startTime":240.79999999999998,"endTime":248.16,"body":"at home, and four evidence-based strategies you can use straight away to support pupils who show those behaviours."},{"startTime":248.29999999999998,"endTime":253.22,"body":"But before we get to that, and if you haven't done so already, please remember to subscribe"},{"startTime":253.22,"endTime":260.26,"body":"to the podcast on your podcast app so you never miss And while you've got that podcast app open,"},{"startTime":261.03999999999996,"endTime":266.28,"body":"please take the time to leave me a rating and review, which encourages the podcasting gods to"},{"startTime":266.28,"endTime":271.58,"body":"share this show with other teachers and school leaders, just like you, who need this information"},{"startTime":271.58,"endTime":275.12,"body":"to help the students that they're working with day after day after day."},{"startTime":275.44,"endTime":283.65999999999997,"body":"It really makes a difference and it's a quick and free way of supporting our work here on School Behaviour Secrets."},{"startTime":284.28,"endTime":291.32,"body":"So let's start by clearing up a few of the biggest myths, because these are the ideas that get"},{"startTime":291.32,"endTime":296.32,"body":"teachers stuck in battles that they can't win about ODD. Myth one."},{"startTime":296.96000000000004,"endTime":299.06,"body":"ODD is just bad behaviour."},{"startTime":299.18,"endTime":301.1,"body":"And the thing is, right, it's not."},{"startTime":301.52,"endTime":309.53999999999996,"body":"The diagnostic criteria, so that's the list of behaviours that medical professionals look for when they're like ODD."},{"startTime":310.08,"endTime":316.96000000000004,"body":"Those criteria, they talk about a child presenting a persistent pattern of angry or irritable"},{"startTime":316.96000000000004,"endTime":324.24,"body":"mood, argumentative or defiant behaviour, and sometimes vindictiveness, lasting at least six"},{"startTime":324.24,"endTime":329.14,"body":"months and well beyond what's typical for that child's age."},{"startTime":329.22,"endTime":334.08,"body":"And that definition isn't just my take, that's straight from the DSM-5, the document professionals"},{"startTime":334.08,"endTime":338.6,"body":"use to diagnose mental health in many areas of the world."},{"startTime":339.26,"endTime":345.72,"body":"And it's supported by large-scale reviews like a 2002 meta-analysis which confirmed that these"},{"startTime":345.72,"endTime":352.78,"body":"core emotional and behavioural patterns distinguish ODD from ordinary misbehaviour."},{"startTime":352.88,"endTime":357.93999999999994,"body":"Now it's easy for us as adults, when we see behaviours like those that I've just listed in the"},{"startTime":357.93999999999994,"endTime":360.70000000000005,"body":"classroom, to kind of put a morality spin on that."},{"startTime":360.74,"endTime":370.4,"body":"We might think that the ODDs are selfish, but we're dealing with children, often young children,"},{"startTime":370.6,"endTime":377.92999999999995,"body":"so if we think a bit deeper... about what these criteria, what they tell us, whatever behaviours"},{"startTime":377.92999999999995,"endTime":383.61,"body":"we see on the outside, they're reflecting an underlying emotional regulation issue on the inside,"},{"startTime":383.77,"endTime":386.15,"body":"and that's something we can work with."},{"startTime":386.39,"endTime":393.13,"body":"We have strategies to support children with that, and that framing is empowering as a teacher"},{"startTime":393.13,"endTime":397.23,"body":"or a parent, because emotional regulation is something we can do without."},{"startTime":397.23,"endTime":404.37,"body":"We can support the kids, whereas slapping a good or bad label on the child leads us really down"},{"startTime":404.37,"endTime":407.03,"body":"a dead-end road, a cul-de-sac that goes nowhere."},{"startTime":407.28999999999996,"endTime":411.85,"body":"So for both the child and the adult, digging into the why, which I know is something I keep"},{"startTime":411.85,"endTime":414.59000000000003,"body":"banging on about, that's a really good thing."},{"startTime":414.68999999999994,"endTime":421.21000000000004,"body":"These criteria, they tell us about what's driving the behaviour, and that gives us a path forward."},{"startTime":421.97,"endTime":427.83000000000004,"body":"Myth two is that these kids just need tougher boundaries, and actually doubling down on control"},{"startTime":427.83000000000004,"endTime":431.47,"body":"with kids with ODD actually tends to make things worse."},{"startTime":432.65,"endTime":438.21000000000004,"body":"Power battles with adults do not teach regulation, they just prove who can shout the loudest."},{"startTime":438.68999999999994,"endTime":444.68999999999994,"body":"With ODD and many other conditions related to SEMH actually, there's this Bruce Lee quote that"},{"startTime":444.68999999999994,"endTime":451.13,"body":"springs to mind that helps us get into the right mindset to move our students towards success,"},{"startTime":451.15,"endTime":458.28999999999996,"body":"and that quote is, be like water, meaning when we hit resistance from our student, or defiance,"},{"startTime":458.45000000000005,"endTime":464.57000000000005,"body":"or they're disrespectful, or whatever it is, that's like a boulder in the river, and what we"},{"startTime":464.57000000000005,"endTime":467.65,"body":"need to do as the adult is adapt our approach."},{"startTime":468.1,"endTime":476.40999999999997,"body":"So the water in a river changes its form and it moves around the boulder fluidly so it can continue to make progress."},{"startTime":477.27,"endTime":483.85,"body":"That means the trick isn't to escalate power battles, it's to be the professional, the adult,"},{"startTime":483.87,"endTime":488.42999999999995,"body":"and change the approach to get a good result."},{"startTime":489.25,"endTime":495.90999999999997,"body":"Myth three is ODD means disrespect, and ODD is rarely about disrespect actually."},{"startTime":496.18999999999994,"endTime":503.75,"body":"When you dig into what's happening underneath in the child, it's often about control, it's about safety, and about predictability."},{"startTime":504.53,"endTime":510.28999999999996,"body":"When the child is missing any one of those three foundation stones, their behaviour becomes"},{"startTime":510.28999999999996,"endTime":514.37,"body":"their way of trying to restore kind of like an emotional balance."},{"startTime":514.39,"endTime":516.41,"body":"If they don't feel safe, they don't feel safe."},{"startTime":516.4399999999999,"endTime":520.12,"body":"They push back against the adult to protect themselves."},{"startTime":520.82,"endTime":528.76,"body":"If they don't feel in control, they'll create control through arguing or refusing or walking out."},{"startTime":528.88,"endTime":534.72,"body":"And if life feels unpredictable, if adults' responses change from one day to the next, they'll"},{"startTime":534.72,"endTime":540.4399999999999,"body":"fill that uncertainty with conflict, because at least that's a pattern that they understand"},{"startTime":540.4399999999999,"endTime":544.72,"body":"and that they're often very good at, probably better than you or I."},{"startTime":545.28,"endTime":552.02,"body":"So what looks like deliberate defiance is often just a desperate attempt to make the world feel"},{"startTime":552.02,"endTime":557.64,"body":"stable again, to retain a sense of control in an environment that feels uncontrollable."},{"startTime":558.3,"endTime":567.78,"body":"When we see it that way, ODD stops being about won't, and starts being about I can't right now."},{"startTime":568.6,"endTime":572.32,"body":"Myth four is ODD is basically the same as PDA."},{"startTime":572.74,"endTime":579.02,"body":"And right, I can understand this, and from the outside it's close but not quite, because both"},{"startTime":579.02,"endTime":582.04,"body":"involve control, but for very different reasons."},{"startTime":582.04,"endTime":585.08,"body":"And those different reasons will change our approach."},{"startTime":586.01,"endTime":594.58,"body":"Very simply, and this is very broad brush, children with PDA seek control to escape anxiety."},{"startTime":595.64,"endTime":602.46,"body":"Children with ODD seek control for its own sake, because control itself has become the battleground."},{"startTime":603.1,"endTime":609.36,"body":"So while the surface behaviours from the two children might look similar, the emotional engine"},{"startTime":609.36,"endTime":612.3000000000001,"body":"underneath those two conditions is completely different."},{"startTime":612.3000000000001,"endTime":618.2,"body":"And that's why when the behaviours from two completely different conditions look so similar"},{"startTime":618.2,"endTime":625.5,"body":"as they do with ODD and PDA, it's so important to dig beneath the surface to find the real drivers"},{"startTime":625.5,"endTime":631.14,"body":"behind the behaviours, and then when we know that, select the right support strategies."},{"startTime":631.72,"endTime":638.0400000000001,"body":"So like an analogy here might be, you can have sharp chest pains from both indigestion or a heart attack."},{"startTime":638.0400000000001,"endTime":645.4200000000001,"body":"From the outside, those symptoms might look very similar, but the remedies, they're very different."},{"startTime":646.24,"endTime":652.48,"body":"Myth five is that my toddler's tantrums must be ODD. No."},{"startTime":653.4200000000001,"endTime":659.44,"body":"Tantrums are part of normal development up to about the age of four. ODD isn't even diagrammed."},{"startTime":659.47,"endTime":666.2900000000001,"body":"ODD is diagnosed until at least four years old, because before then, those outbursts are kind of developmentally expected."},{"startTime":666.9300000000001,"endTime":672.89,"body":"It's when we get beyond that age group that ODD reaches our radar."},{"startTime":673.11,"endTime":675.45,"body":"OK, so those are the myths around ODD."},{"startTime":675.69,"endTime":678.03,"body":"Now let's look at what ODD actually is."},{"startTime":678.07,"endTime":680.19,"body":"And I've kind of started touching on this already."},{"startTime":681.41,"endTime":685.69,"body":"ODD at its heart is an emotional regulation disorder."},{"startTime":685.69,"endTime":688.13,"body":"It's not about wanting to misbehave."},{"startTime":688.37,"endTime":695.87,"body":"It's about a child who, when they feel controlled or criticised or powerless, flips into this"},{"startTime":695.87,"endTime":698.4300000000001,"body":"kind of defensive oppositional state."},{"startTime":698.77,"endTime":703.45,"body":"And their nervous system is basically saying, I don't feel safe right now."},{"startTime":703.45,"endTime":712.0500000000001,"body":"And that's why arguing, refusing or digging in their heels feels automatic for them."},{"startTime":712.0500000000001,"endTime":714.65,"body":"It's not a thought through choice."},{"startTime":714.71,"endTime":716.83,"body":"It's kind of this protective reaction."},{"startTime":717.95,"endTime":720.87,"body":"So here's something most people don't realise about ODD."},{"startTime":721.23,"endTime":730.83,"body":"And that's around 30 to 50% of children with ADHD also meet the criteria for ODD."},{"startTime":731.11,"endTime":734.39,"body":"That's not just something teachers notice anecdotally."},{"startTime":734.39,"endTime":744.49,"body":"Studies consistently find that roughly a third to a half of pupils with ADHD also would meet the criteria for ODD."},{"startTime":745.0500000000001,"endTime":751.61,"body":"And one review in 2019 found those exact figures showing how closely those two conditions overlap"},{"startTime":751.61,"endTime":756.35,"body":"in terms of impulsivity and emotional intensity."},{"startTime":756.35,"endTime":758.41,"body":"And that overlap makes sense."},{"startTime":758.6700000000001,"endTime":765.77,"body":"Both impulsivity, emotional intensity and difficulty with inhibition are common to both conditions."},{"startTime":765.85,"endTime":772.37,"body":"So if you're working with a pupil who's constantly challenging you, it's worth thinking about"},{"startTime":772.37,"endTime":776.87,"body":"whether ADHD traits might also be part of the picture too."},{"startTime":777.1700000000001,"endTime":783.89,"body":"That's why when we're working out in the real world, it's so important to look at the whole child."},{"startTime":783.89,"endTime":789.2900000000001,"body":"So let's look under the bonnet or let's look under the hood for our US listeners and see what's"},{"startTime":789.2900000000001,"endTime":790.87,"body":"really going on with ADHD."},{"startTime":791.65,"endTime":793.9300000000001,"body":"And the first thing is control equals safety."},{"startTime":794.65,"endTime":799.7900000000001,"body":"Many pupils with ODD have learnt that being in control keeps them safe."},{"startTime":800.45,"endTime":802.47,"body":"When someone else takes charge, they're in control."},{"startTime":802.5,"endTime":808.46,"body":"Their brain interprets that as danger and up go the defensive walls very, very quickly."},{"startTime":808.46,"endTime":815.82,"body":"The behaviour that they're showing is saying, you can't control me because being controlled has never felt safe."},{"startTime":815.82,"endTime":823.4,"body":"And then you see the child kind of wrestling control away from the adults, fighting back, being disrespectful, saying mean things."},{"startTime":824.14,"endTime":827.0600000000001,"body":"Secondly, perceived unfairness is a big deal."},{"startTime":827.16,"endTime":831.72,"body":"These pupils have a very, very finely tuned radar for injustice."},{"startTime":832.1,"endTime":839.34,"body":"If they see one rule applied to one child and not another, or they sense hypocrisy from the adult, they'll just explode."},{"startTime":839.34,"endTime":843.6,"body":"They're constantly scanning for fairness and safety."},{"startTime":843.6,"endTime":849.5600000000001,"body":"But by the way, like a lot of kids, don't expect that justice to be a two-way streak."},{"startTime":849.5600000000001,"endTime":854.66,"body":"While you might see your student complain about how the rules are being unfairly applied to"},{"startTime":854.66,"endTime":860.66,"body":"them, don't necessarily expect them to be so active when things are working in the opposite"},{"startTime":860.66,"endTime":864.1,"body":"direction, when things are working to their advantage."},{"startTime":864.48,"endTime":869.9,"body":"But perceived unfairness is a big deal for kids with ODD when it affects them personally."},{"startTime":870.5,"endTime":874.2,"body":"Thirdly, defensiveness and rejection sensitivity."},{"startTime":874.2,"endTime":881.78,"body":"Kids with ODD often externalise blame to protect their self-esteem.That means they project things"},{"startTime":881.78,"endTime":885.38,"body":"that have gone wrong onto other people rather than looking inward."},{"startTime":885.38,"endTime":891.08,"body":"And over time, that can lead to repeated conflict that can make them feel like the adults are"},{"startTime":891.08,"endTime":894.32,"body":"against them, even when that literally isn't true."},{"startTime":894.32,"endTime":900.34,"body":"The pushback becomes a shield against rejection or perceived failure."},{"startTime":900.34,"endTime":904.46,"body":"They're not thinking, I'm bad or I've done the wrong thing."},{"startTime":904.46,"endTime":908.9200000000001,"body":"They're thinking, you're against me, so I'll fight first."},{"startTime":908.9200000000001,"endTime":910.88,"body":"And again, that's the key."},{"startTime":911.0,"endTime":915.44,"body":"These behaviours are like a shield. They're protective. They're not necessarily malicious."},{"startTime":915.44,"endTime":919.4200000000001,"body":"Okay, so that's the why behind the behaviours."},{"startTime":919.9,"endTime":925.12,"body":"Now let's shift to the practical part and look at some strategies you can use to support your"},{"startTime":925.12,"endTime":930.84,"body":"students or your own kids if you're a parent of a child with oppositional defiant disorder."},{"startTime":931.1800000000001,"endTime":934.02,"body":"So, strategy one, swerve the power struggle."},{"startTime":934.02,"endTime":943.7,"body":"You will never win a control battle with a So, stop trying to win it."},{"startTime":943.8000000000001,"endTime":948.23,"body":"Be like the water. flow around the resistance."},{"startTime":948.91,"endTime":956.85,"body":"That could mean, however painful this is in the moment, seeing the big picture and sharing control"},{"startTime":956.85,"endTime":961.47,"body":"over a difficult situation to get a good result for you and the student."},{"startTime":961.89,"endTime":968.61,"body":"So, if the student's refusing or being disrespectful, offer limited meaningful choices."},{"startTime":968.75,"endTime":973.27,"body":"So, instead of saying you have to start at question one or do the work, you can say you can"},{"startTime":973.27,"endTime":975.13,"body":"start with question one or two."},{"startTime":975.63,"endTime":977.53,"body":"It's entirely up to you."},{"startTime":978.03,"endTime":982.13,"body":"It feels like you're putting the control back in the student's hands when you do that."},{"startTime":982.8100000000001,"endTime":989.73,"body":"Keep your tone calm and predictable and replace commands with next steps."},{"startTime":990.35,"endTime":994.95,"body":"So, saying things like, here's what happens next. The next step is."},{"startTime":995.15,"endTime":1000.61,"body":"So, when I said that, see how I removed myself as the person giving the instruction in that"},{"startTime":1000.61,"endTime":1002.77,"body":"sentence and it kind of becomes more passive."},{"startTime":1002.95,"endTime":1006.91,"body":"I didn't say I want you to do this next or you have to do this next."},{"startTime":1007.1700000000001,"endTime":1015.77,"body":"I completely disappeared from the sentence as the person giving the direction and said, here's what happens next. The next step is."},{"startTime":1015.8100000000001,"endTime":1022.3100000000001,"body":"It's a more passive way of speaking that kind of avoids throwing up those defensive walls."},{"startTime":1022.8100000000001,"endTime":1031.59,"body":"And where possible, flowing around the obstacles beats using punishment every time because sanctions"},{"startTime":1031.59,"endTime":1038.1299999999999,"body":"escalate, which gets the child in return to dig in, get their retaliation in, and then that"},{"startTime":1038.1299999999999,"endTime":1040.69,"body":"just prolongs the confrontation and the defiance."},{"startTime":1041.23,"endTime":1047.69,"body":"So, in the situation, in the classroom, that might involve on your part taking a very deep breath"},{"startTime":1047.85,"endTime":1054.57,"body":"and counting to a slow 10, but do it because it will make your life better in the long run and"},{"startTime":1054.57,"endTime":1056.97,"body":"it opens the door to progress."},{"startTime":1057.61,"endTime":1062.17,"body":"The second strategy I've got for you is regulate them first and teach them second."},{"startTime":1062.59,"endTime":1068.8899999999999,"body":"Remember, if the child's in fight or flight, reasoning about what's right and what's wrong is pointless."},{"startTime":1070.03,"endTime":1074.09,"body":"Address their emotional state, not their behavior to start with."},{"startTime":1074.1299999999999,"endTime":1079.8899999999999,"body":"So, we lead with empathy, using phrases like, you look frustrated, let's take a breather."},{"startTime":1080.31,"endTime":1085.75,"body":"Instead of meeting their behavior head on with listing rules or expectations."},{"startTime":1085.85,"endTime":1092.78,"body":"And when you do it, use a calm tone, safe body language and give them space to co-regulate."},{"startTime":1093.8799999999999,"endTime":1100.74,"body":"Once they're calm, THEN by all means have a coaching conversation and talk about expectations and boundaries."},{"startTime":1101.36,"endTime":1108.72,"body":"But trying to reason with a child in survival mode is a recipe for stress and failure on both sides."},{"startTime":1108.96,"endTime":1111.22,"body":"So don't put the emotional cart before the horse."},{"startTime":1112.08,"endTime":1119.5,"body":"Strategy 3 is repair and reset after things have gone wrong. After a conflict, reconnect."},{"startTime":1119.74,"endTime":1124.34,"body":"And for kids with ODD, the reset matters more than the sanction."},{"startTime":1124.9399999999998,"endTime":1131.4399999999998,"body":"So it's important to say something like, I still like you, even though I didn't like your choices this morning."},{"startTime":1131.84,"endTime":1137.86,"body":"And that message of belonging chips away at the defensiveness that drives oppositional behavior."},{"startTime":1137.9599999999998,"endTime":1143.6399999999999,"body":"And it from their identity."},{"startTime":1143.84,"endTime":1144.54,"body":"I did a bad thing."},{"startTime":1144.6599999999999,"endTime":1145.74,"body":"I'm not a bad person."},{"startTime":1146.3799999999999,"endTime":1152.32,"body":"So here, consistency and reconnection are the treatment plan. Everything else is noise."},{"startTime":1153.1399999999999,"endTime":1158.82,"body":"Focus on what helps them make progress, because without progress in the end, we're going to"},{"startTime":1158.82,"endTime":1166.24,"body":"be trapped in the classroom, going around and around in circles, replaying the same conflicts over and over."},{"startTime":1166.8,"endTime":1171.8999999999999,"body":"And strategy 4 is use reward systems, but with realistic expectations."},{"startTime":1172.6999999999998,"endTime":1178.3999999999999,"body":"Now, I'm the guy who says students and adults should do the right thing because it's the right thing."},{"startTime":1178.4199999999998,"endTime":1180.6999999999998,"body":"And let's burn all the reward charts."},{"startTime":1181.12,"endTime":1187.6799999999998,"body":"But I also hold a conflicting belief, and that overrules everything else I believe about behavior"},{"startTime":1187.6799999999998,"endTime":1194.4199999999998,"body":"and SEMH, which is do what works for your student, assuming that it's reasonably humane."},{"startTime":1194.78,"endTime":1197.02,"body":"You're not locking them in the chokie for 10 hours or anything."},{"startTime":1197.24,"endTime":1203.08,"body":"And there's a lot of research, despite my instinctive beliefs, showing that structured reward"},{"startTime":1203.08,"endTime":1208.8999999999999,"body":"systems or token economies can reduce aggression and disruptive behavior in students in schools."},{"startTime":1208.9199999999998,"endTime":1211.4399999999998,"body":"And that's backed up by a whole body of research."},{"startTime":1211.8999999999999,"endTime":1217.6399999999999,"body":"There was a 2020 review that looked at token economy systems in classrooms and found they significantly"},{"startTime":1217.6399999999999,"endTime":1220.1,"body":"reduced aggressive and disruptive behavior."},{"startTime":1221.1599999999999,"endTime":1231.36,"body":"And in my experience, using reward charts selectively and carefully for students with ODD has had an impact."},{"startTime":1231.59,"endTime":1237.1299999999999,"body":"So, if you're working with a child with ODD who's struggling to regulate or constantly getting"},{"startTime":1237.1299999999999,"endTime":1241.53,"body":"into arguments, this might be the time to break them out and commit to them."},{"startTime":1242.23,"endTime":1248.35,"body":"But, and this is a big but, when I say I've had success with that, that's just my experience"},{"startTime":1248.35,"endTime":1251.27,"body":"going out into schools working with teachers and students and parents."},{"startTime":1251.51,"endTime":1255.23,"body":"And there is a reason I'm going to caveat what I've just said."},{"startTime":1255.6499999999999,"endTime":1260.61,"body":"Because from what I've found, although there is lots of research to show reward systems and"},{"startTime":1260.61,"endTime":1268.9699999999998,"body":"economies can be effective in reducing aggression in students, when you specifically look at"},{"startTime":1268.9699999999998,"endTime":1273.35,"body":"kids who have been diagnosed with ODD, the research is much thinner."},{"startTime":1273.6499999999999,"endTime":1280.83,"body":"What we do know is that these systems work best as part of a bigger package, meaning they're not the only strategy."},{"startTime":1281.31,"endTime":1287.1699999999998,"body":"They're in the mix of a wider needs-led approach and joined up with what parents are doing at home."},{"startTime":1287.8899999999999,"endTime":1293.03,"body":"Approaches that give the pupil clear targets, immediate feedback, frequent praise and predictable rewards."},{"startTime":1293.3899999999999,"endTime":1302.51,"body":"So yes, extrinsic rewards can help, but only when used consistently, calmly and alongside relationship"},{"startTime":1302.51,"endTime":1305.37,"body":"and skills building and needs-led approaches."},{"startTime":1305.73,"endTime":1308.83,"body":"Used on their own, they're not going to get you very far."},{"startTime":1309.4099999999999,"endTime":1313.1899999999998,"body":"By the way, if you've been listening today and thinking, we could really use more practical"},{"startTime":1313.1899999999998,"endTime":1317.27,"body":"no-nonsense strategies like these in our school, then you're going to love something I've got"},{"startTime":1317.27,"endTime":1320.1899999999998,"body":"for you completely free called the SEND Behaviour Handbook."},{"startTime":1320.33,"endTime":1325.6699999999998,"body":"It's a completely free resource that we put together to help teachers and school leaders better"},{"startTime":1325.6699999999998,"endTime":1331.49,"body":"understand and support pupils with additional needs, especially those whose behaviour can sometimes"},{"startTime":1331.49,"endTime":1337.4099999999999,"body":"be challenging to the adults or is unsafe in school or when you're not quite sure how to start supporting them."},{"startTime":1337.75,"endTime":1343.9499999999998,"body":"Inside you'll find short, easy-to-read guides to conditions like ADHD, autism, trauma, anxiety"},{"startTime":1343.9499999999998,"endTime":1350.9099999999999,"body":"and ODD, which is why I bring it up, along with simple actionable tips you can start using straight away in the classroom."},{"startTime":1351.51,"endTime":1356.81,"body":"It's perfect for sharing with your colleagues during CPD sessions, staff meetings or even part"},{"startTime":1356.81,"endTime":1361.83,"body":"of your induction pack for new teachers or teaching assistants because it gives everyone in"},{"startTime":1361.83,"endTime":1367.83,"body":"your school a common understanding of what really drives student behaviour and how to respond"},{"startTime":1367.83,"endTime":1370.4299999999998,"body":"in ways that actually work, that are actually effective."},{"startTime":1370.53,"endTime":1375.24,"body":"So if you haven't got it already, go and grab your free copy. Just visit beaconschoolsupport.co.uk/send-handbook."},{"startTime":1379.6,"endTime":1386.84,"body":"That's beaconschoolsupport.co.uk/send-handbook slash handbook today."},{"startTime":1386.84,"endTime":1389.6599999999999,"body":"And I'll also put a link in the show notes in your podcast app."},{"startTime":1389.6999999999998,"endTime":1392.3,"body":"So all you have to do is tap on the picture of this episode."},{"startTime":1392.84,"endTime":1398.6399999999999,"body":"The description will pop up for today's episode and you can tap straight through on the link. So that's ODD."},{"startTime":1398.84,"endTime":1402.12,"body":"And to sum up today's episode, here's the truth."},{"startTime":1402.1599999999999,"endTime":1406.1999999999998,"body":"Here are the key facts about oppositional defiant disorder, however it feels."},{"startTime":1406.58,"endTime":1408.4399999999998,"body":"And believe me, I've been there."},{"startTime":1409.4399999999998,"endTime":1413.36,"body":"Students with ODD aren't actually trying to make your life difficult in the classroom."},{"startTime":1413.62,"endTime":1417.1399999999999,"body":"They're trying to make their world feel safe."},{"startTime":1417.36,"endTime":1426.36,"body":"And once you stop fighting for control, you become like the water and start focusing on building trust. Everything changes."},{"startTime":1426.36,"endTime":1428.5,"body":"It's not an immediate win by any means."},{"startTime":1428.5,"endTime":1435.3799999999999,"body":"It does take time to see success, but stick with the strategies that I've spoken about today"},{"startTime":1435.3799999999999,"endTime":1437.6399999999999,"body":"and your student will get there."},{"startTime":1437.76,"endTime":1442.54,"body":"And that's what I've got for you today in this episode of School Behaviour Secrets."},{"startTime":1442.7199999999998,"endTime":1447.28,"body":"If today's episode gave you something useful, hit subscribe and leave us a quick review."},{"startTime":1447.84,"endTime":1453.54,"body":"It helps more educators discover School Behaviour Secrets and get the tools they need to support"},{"startTime":1453.54,"endTime":1455.74,"body":"every child in their classroom."},{"startTime":1456.02,"endTime":1460.58,"body":"Thank you for listening today and I can't wait to see you next time on School Behaviour Secrets."}]}