{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":88.00999999999999,"endTime":90.05,"body":"analogy would"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":88.00999999999999,"endTime":90.05,"body":"be say you were looking at"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":90.08,"endTime":93.74,"body":"walking styles and you put"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":90.08,"endTime":93.74,"body":"limping as a walking style. A"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":93.74,"endTime":97.07,"body":"person is limping, not because"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":93.74,"endTime":97.07,"body":"that's their natural style of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":97.07,"endTime":98.75,"body":"walking but because they have"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":97.07,"endTime":98.75,"body":"some kind of injury or"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":98.75,"endTime":101.78,"body":"impairment. So similarly, an"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":98.75,"endTime":101.78,"body":"attachment style that's not"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":101.78,"endTime":104.92999999999999,"body":"healthy is due to some kind of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":101.78,"endTime":104.92999999999999,"body":"injury or impairment."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":105.19999999999999,"endTime":107.78,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":105.19999999999999,"endTime":107.78,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.78,"endTime":111.19999999999999,"body":"podcast. I'm your host, Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.78,"endTime":111.19999999999999,"body":"Currigan. My co host is Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":111.19999999999999,"endTime":114.83,"body":"Shackleton and we're obsessed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":111.19999999999999,"endTime":114.83,"body":"with helping teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.83,"endTime":117.71,"body":"leaders and parents and of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.83,"endTime":117.71,"body":"course, students when classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.71,"endTime":120.64999999999999,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.71,"endTime":120.64999999999999,"body":"success. We're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":120.64999999999999,"endTime":123.25999999999999,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":120.64999999999999,"endTime":123.25999999999999,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":123.28999999999999,"endTime":126.8,"body":"behavioural special needs,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":123.28999999999999,"endTime":126.8,"body":"homeschool strategy and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":126.8,"endTime":129.62,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":126.8,"endTime":129.62,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.62,"endTime":133.04,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.62,"endTime":133.04,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":133.04,"endTime":136.16,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":133.04,"endTime":136.16,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":136.31,"endTime":139.28,"body":"So you'll get to hear their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":136.31,"endTime":139.28,"body":"latest evidence based strategies"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.28,"endTime":143.42,"body":"before anyone else. This is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.28,"endTime":143.42,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":143.42,"endTime":144.26,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.64999999999998,"endTime":147.85999999999999,"body":"Welcome to episode eight of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.64999999999998,"endTime":147.85999999999999,"body":"school behaviour secrets podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":147.85999999999999,"endTime":150.68,"body":"and today we have an interview"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":147.85999999999999,"endTime":150.68,"body":"with Katherine young on the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":150.68,"endTime":153.32,"body":"subject of supporting pupils"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":150.68,"endTime":153.32,"body":"with attachment difficulties."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":153.76999999999998,"endTime":156.47,"body":"I'm here with my co host, Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":153.76999999999998,"endTime":156.47,"body":"Shackleton. Hello, Emma."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":156.56,"endTime":157.19,"body":"Hi there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.45999999999998,"endTime":159.58999999999997,"body":"Emma, I've got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.45999999999998,"endTime":159.58999999999997,"body":"question on my mind. You're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.58999999999997,"endTime":164.75,"body":"quite sporty. Have you ever had"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.58999999999997,"endTime":164.75,"body":"an injury that's held you back?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":165.11,"endTime":167.51,"body":"I was actually"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":165.11,"endTime":167.51,"body":"part of a roller derby team for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":167.51,"endTime":171.14,"body":"a number of years. And that was"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":167.51,"endTime":171.14,"body":"a sport that I absolutely love."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":171.17,"endTime":175.73,"body":"Roller Derby is a full contact"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":171.17,"endTime":175.73,"body":"sport like rugby on roller"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":175.73,"endTime":179.81,"body":"skates. Over the years I did"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":175.73,"endTime":179.81,"body":"suffer quite a few little bits"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":179.81,"endTime":183.58999999999997,"body":"of injuries, nothing as serious"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":179.81,"endTime":183.58999999999997,"body":"as a bone break. Thankfully, if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":183.58999999999997,"endTime":186.82999999999998,"body":"your injury is not who bad and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":183.58999999999997,"endTime":186.82999999999998,"body":"you can still train and compete."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.82999999999998,"endTime":191.03,"body":"That's great. But it really does"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.82999999999998,"endTime":191.03,"body":"change your style and it affects"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":191.03,"endTime":194.93,"body":"your performance. And but Simon"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":191.03,"endTime":194.93,"body":"What has this all got to do with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":194.93,"endTime":196.01,"body":"today's episode?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":196.28,"endTime":198.89,"body":"Well, it's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":196.28,"endTime":198.89,"body":"very cheeky segue to our guest,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":198.89,"endTime":202.04,"body":"Katherine young. She's got over"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":198.89,"endTime":202.04,"body":"20 years experience of working"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":202.04,"endTime":205.49,"body":"with children with attachment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":202.04,"endTime":205.49,"body":"difficulties, and she says that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":205.49,"endTime":209.51,"body":"a child attachment style isn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":205.49,"endTime":209.51,"body":"fixed, but that it reflects an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.6,"endTime":213.38,"body":"underlying attachment injury."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.6,"endTime":213.38,"body":"And when that injury is healed,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":213.41,"endTime":216.89,"body":"the child's free to move to a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":213.41,"endTime":216.89,"body":"more constructive attachment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":216.92,"endTime":221.09,"body":"style. He calls this process"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":216.92,"endTime":221.09,"body":"M-MAT: multimodal attachment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":221.09,"endTime":223.7,"body":"therapy. And she's going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":221.09,"endTime":223.7,"body":"guide us through what that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":223.7,"endTime":227.0,"body":"process looks like and how our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":223.7,"endTime":227.0,"body":"students can benefit from it in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":227.0,"endTime":227.45,"body":"the school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":229.34,"endTime":232.28,"body":"Our guest today is Catherine"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":229.34,"endTime":232.28,"body":"Young, she's an author and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":232.28,"endTime":235.07,"body":"trainer who's provided therapy"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":232.28,"endTime":235.07,"body":"to children and families for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":235.1,"endTime":239.39,"body":"over 25 years, she's developed a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":235.1,"endTime":239.39,"body":"new practical approach to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":239.39,"endTime":242.23999999999998,"body":"helping kids where attachment is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":239.39,"endTime":242.23999999999998,"body":"a significant issue. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":242.23999999999998,"endTime":246.29,"body":"evidence based, and it's called"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":242.23999999999998,"endTime":246.29,"body":"M-MAT, multimodal attachment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":246.29,"endTime":249.23,"body":"therapy. And Catherine, before"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":246.29,"endTime":249.23,"body":"we get going, I want to say that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.23,"endTime":252.98,"body":"your book not only contains one"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.23,"endTime":252.98,"body":"of the best clearest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.01,"endTime":256.34000000000003,"body":"descriptions of attachment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.01,"endTime":256.34000000000003,"body":"therapy, but it's also super"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":256.34000000000003,"endTime":259.94,"body":"practical. I've heard lots of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":256.34000000000003,"endTime":259.94,"body":"experts speak on the subject of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":259.94,"endTime":263.75,"body":"attachment theory. But then when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":259.94,"endTime":263.75,"body":"it comes to practical actions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":263.75,"endTime":266.84000000000003,"body":"you can take to help address"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":263.75,"endTime":266.84000000000003,"body":"those issues. their answers are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":266.84000000000003,"endTime":270.40999999999997,"body":"often very fuzzy, very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":266.84000000000003,"endTime":270.40999999999997,"body":"imprecise, and your book is not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.40999999999997,"endTime":274.1,"body":"like that at all. It gives us"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.40999999999997,"endTime":274.1,"body":"very clear instructions are very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":274.1,"endTime":278.93,"body":"clear process to help children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":274.1,"endTime":278.93,"body":"heal attachment injuries. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":278.93,"endTime":282.08,"body":"very excited to have you on the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":278.93,"endTime":282.08,"body":"podcast today to talk about your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.08,"endTime":283.19,"body":"approach. Welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":283.22,"endTime":283.66999999999996,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":283.97,"endTime":287.29999999999995,"body":"So can we get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":283.97,"endTime":287.29999999999995,"body":"started by asking what an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.29999999999995,"endTime":289.94,"body":"attachment injury actually is?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":289.97,"endTime":293.72,"body":"Sure, an"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":289.97,"endTime":293.72,"body":"attachment injury is an injury"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":293.72,"endTime":297.44,"body":"or impairment in that first"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":293.72,"endTime":297.44,"body":"primary relationship that a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":297.44,"endTime":299.6,"body":"child has with their primary"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":297.44,"endTime":299.6,"body":"caregiver."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":299.65999999999997,"endTime":302.6,"body":"So how does a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":299.65999999999997,"endTime":302.6,"body":"child receive an attachment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":302.6,"endTime":304.7,"body":"injury? What happens to cause"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":302.6,"endTime":304.7,"body":"that injury?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":304.73,"endTime":306.56,"body":"That's a really"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":304.73,"endTime":306.56,"body":"good question. First, we have to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":306.56,"endTime":309.86,"body":"understand what attachment is"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":306.56,"endTime":309.86,"body":"how it develops, attachment is"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":309.95,"endTime":313.15999999999997,"body":"connection between a child and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":309.95,"endTime":313.15999999999997,"body":"their primary caregiver, usually"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":313.15999999999997,"endTime":316.66999999999996,"body":"the mother and it develops"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":313.15999999999997,"endTime":316.66999999999996,"body":"through the interactions between"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":316.66999999999996,"endTime":319.52,"body":"the child and the parent, you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":316.66999999999996,"endTime":319.52,"body":"know, the parent makes silly"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":319.52,"endTime":323.18,"body":"faces to the child, the child"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":319.52,"endTime":323.18,"body":"giggles the parent giggles back,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":323.18,"endTime":325.61,"body":"there's sort of this reciprocal"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":323.18,"endTime":325.61,"body":"interaction happening."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":325.64,"endTime":328.61,"body":"Alternately, the child is"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":325.64,"endTime":328.61,"body":"uncomfortable, they fuss the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":328.61,"endTime":332.18,"body":"parent comes and helps them out."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":328.61,"endTime":332.18,"body":"And so through these"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":332.18,"endTime":335.18,"body":"interactions, the child learns"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":332.18,"endTime":335.18,"body":"that there's someone there for"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":335.18,"endTime":337.49,"body":"them, they develop this"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":335.18,"endTime":337.49,"body":"connection to this person. And"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":337.49,"endTime":340.4,"body":"the parent also is developing a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":337.49,"endTime":340.4,"body":"connection. It's not a one way"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":340.4,"endTime":344.17999999999995,"body":"process. It's a two way process."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":340.4,"endTime":344.17999999999995,"body":"So how an attachment injury"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":344.17999999999995,"endTime":348.35,"body":"occurs is that this process gets"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":344.17999999999995,"endTime":348.35,"body":"disrupted somehow. And then the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":348.35,"endTime":351.55999999999995,"body":"child does not develop this"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":348.35,"endTime":351.55999999999995,"body":"connection. The child and parent"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":351.55999999999995,"endTime":354.79999999999995,"body":"don't develop this healthy what"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":351.55999999999995,"endTime":354.79999999999995,"body":"we call secure attachment. And"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":354.79999999999995,"endTime":356.87,"body":"that can impact the child"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":354.79999999999995,"endTime":356.87,"body":"throughout their life."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":356.92999999999995,"endTime":359.39,"body":"What might cause"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":356.92999999999995,"endTime":359.39,"body":"that attachment to be disrupted"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":359.39,"endTime":360.38,"body":"during that process?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":360.40999999999997,"endTime":363.28999999999996,"body":"Yeah, it really"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":360.40999999999997,"endTime":363.28999999999996,"body":"can be anything on the parents"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":363.32000000000005,"endTime":366.53,"body":"and or the child and that keeps"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":363.32000000000005,"endTime":366.53,"body":"them from interacting in that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":366.53,"endTime":370.15999999999997,"body":"way. So for parents, significant"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":366.53,"endTime":370.15999999999997,"body":"substance abuse issues, or"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":370.15999999999997,"endTime":373.49,"body":"mental health issues could get"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":370.15999999999997,"endTime":373.49,"body":"in the way, and illness or"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":373.49,"endTime":376.30999999999995,"body":"depression can get in the way of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":373.49,"endTime":376.30999999999995,"body":"that kind of interaction for the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":376.30999999999995,"endTime":381.32000000000005,"body":"child. Also an illness or an"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":376.30999999999995,"endTime":381.32000000000005,"body":"injury or being in chronic pain,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":381.32000000000005,"endTime":384.77,"body":"for some reason can disrupt"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":381.32000000000005,"endTime":384.77,"body":"their ability to develop that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":384.77,"endTime":385.49,"body":"connection."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":385.54999999999995,"endTime":388.30999999999995,"body":"What difference"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":385.54999999999995,"endTime":388.30999999999995,"body":"does an attachment injury then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.34000000000003,"endTime":392.0,"body":"make to a child emotions and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.34000000000003,"endTime":392.0,"body":"behaviour as they develop?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":392.15,"endTime":393.98,"body":"Basically"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":392.15,"endTime":393.98,"body":"what's happened is the child has"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":394.01,"endTime":398.12,"body":"learned that the adults in their"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":394.01,"endTime":398.12,"body":"world are not a resource for"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":398.12,"endTime":401.09000000000003,"body":"them and every child needs an"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":398.12,"endTime":401.09000000000003,"body":"adult in the world to be a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":401.09000000000003,"endTime":403.88,"body":"resource for them and to create"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":401.09000000000003,"endTime":403.88,"body":"safety for them. And if they"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":403.88,"endTime":406.61,"body":"don't have that, it creates a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":403.88,"endTime":406.61,"body":"huge amount of anxiety, which"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":406.61,"endTime":410.51,"body":"can result in all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":406.61,"endTime":410.51,"body":"behaviours, everything from real"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":410.51,"endTime":414.28999999999996,"body":"controlling behaviours. If the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":410.51,"endTime":414.28999999999996,"body":"parents been very inconsistent"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":414.28999999999996,"endTime":417.16999999999996,"body":"in that early time, a child"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":414.28999999999996,"endTime":417.16999999999996,"body":"doesn't feel safe, they feel a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":417.23,"endTime":420.26,"body":"need to control everything, to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":417.23,"endTime":420.26,"body":"create a sense of safety for"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":420.26,"endTime":425.21000000000004,"body":"themselves. It also may inhibit"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":420.26,"endTime":425.21000000000004,"body":"them from looking to adults for"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":425.21000000000004,"endTime":428.65999999999997,"body":"help, they may act like adults"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":425.21000000000004,"endTime":428.65999999999997,"body":"don't even sort of exist in"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":428.65999999999997,"endTime":431.12,"body":"their world, they feel like they"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":428.65999999999997,"endTime":431.12,"body":"have to do it all themselves,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":431.12,"endTime":433.58000000000004,"body":"which is a lot for childhood, no"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":431.12,"endTime":433.58000000000004,"body":"child should be in that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":433.58000000000004,"endTime":436.4,"body":"position. Alternately, if one of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":433.58000000000004,"endTime":436.4,"body":"the other ways an attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":436.4,"endTime":439.25,"body":"injury might manifest is the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":436.4,"endTime":439.25,"body":"child who kind of goes to anyone"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":439.28,"endTime":442.28,"body":"everyone looking for, you know,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":439.28,"endTime":442.28,"body":"getting their needs met without"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":442.28,"endTime":444.77,"body":"really differentiating. One of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":442.28,"endTime":444.77,"body":"the distinguishing"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":444.77,"endTime":447.35,"body":"characteristics of a healthy"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":444.77,"endTime":447.35,"body":"attachment is that the child"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":447.35,"endTime":450.71000000000004,"body":"distinguishes this person who"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":447.35,"endTime":450.71000000000004,"body":"I'm attached to who provides me"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":450.71000000000004,"endTime":454.13,"body":"safety and comfort is different"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":450.71000000000004,"endTime":454.13,"body":"from the other people in the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":454.13,"endTime":454.49,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":454.54999999999995,"endTime":456.47,"body":"When that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":454.54999999999995,"endTime":456.47,"body":"process of bonding goes wrong."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":456.47,"endTime":459.11,"body":"We've talked about how it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":456.47,"endTime":459.11,"body":"affects the way they see adults,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":459.14,"endTime":462.11,"body":"how does it affect when they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":459.14,"endTime":462.11,"body":"reach school age? How does it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":462.11,"endTime":463.90999999999997,"body":"affect how they see that peers?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":464.0,"endTime":465.79999999999995,"body":"Children with"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":464.0,"endTime":465.79999999999995,"body":"attachment injuries often"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":465.83000000000004,"endTime":468.98,"body":"manifest that in different ways,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":465.83000000000004,"endTime":468.98,"body":"one way might be the bully,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":469.03999999999996,"endTime":471.79999999999995,"body":"again, their sense of self is"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":469.03999999999996,"endTime":471.79999999999995,"body":"injured when the attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":471.83000000000004,"endTime":475.30999999999995,"body":"injured. So they puff themselves"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":471.83000000000004,"endTime":475.30999999999995,"body":"up, they become the bully, you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":475.30999999999995,"endTime":478.54999999999995,"body":"know, the one who's in charge"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":475.30999999999995,"endTime":478.54999999999995,"body":"and hurtful to others. So that's"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":478.54999999999995,"endTime":481.46000000000004,"body":"one possible way, another"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":478.54999999999995,"endTime":481.46000000000004,"body":"possible way with peers would be"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":481.46000000000004,"endTime":484.37,"body":"the one that who's the victim,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":481.46000000000004,"endTime":484.37,"body":"they're used to being victimised"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":484.4,"endTime":487.01,"body":"they fall into that role with"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":484.4,"endTime":487.01,"body":"their peers, you know, peers"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":487.01,"endTime":490.1,"body":"then will tend to pick on them."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":487.01,"endTime":490.1,"body":"Sometimes they'll go back and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":490.1,"endTime":492.79999999999995,"body":"forth between the two, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":490.1,"endTime":492.79999999999995,"body":"a child with an attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":492.79999999999995,"endTime":495.16999999999996,"body":"injury they've given up on"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":492.79999999999995,"endTime":495.16999999999996,"body":"adults, but maybe now they're"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":495.16999999999996,"endTime":498.35,"body":"trying to create that attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":495.16999999999996,"endTime":498.35,"body":"with peers. Unfortunately, that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":498.35,"endTime":501.04999999999995,"body":"doesn't work very well, because"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":498.35,"endTime":501.04999999999995,"body":"you know, peers can't provide"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":501.04999999999995,"endTime":504.23,"body":"the stability, the maturity, all"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":501.04999999999995,"endTime":504.23,"body":"the things, the safety, all the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":504.23,"endTime":505.97,"body":"things that a child actually"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":504.23,"endTime":505.97,"body":"needs."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":506.48,"endTime":509.0,"body":"In the book, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":506.48,"endTime":509.0,"body":"talk about attachment injuries,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":509.33000000000004,"endTime":513.89,"body":"how does an attachment injury"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":509.33000000000004,"endTime":513.89,"body":"differ from an attachment style?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":513.98,"endTime":516.65,"body":"An attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":513.98,"endTime":516.65,"body":"style is simply a pattern of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":516.65,"endTime":519.8,"body":"interacting, it was developed"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":516.65,"endTime":519.8,"body":"years ago, through a particular"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":519.8,"endTime":522.8,"body":"situation with toddlers and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":519.8,"endTime":522.8,"body":"parents, they kind of catalogued"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":522.8,"endTime":525.95,"body":"how children reacted in that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":522.8,"endTime":525.95,"body":"situation. And they categorise"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":525.98,"endTime":528.92,"body":"those patterns of reacting as"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":525.98,"endTime":528.92,"body":"attachment styles. And"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":528.92,"endTime":533.12,"body":"attachment injury is what"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":528.92,"endTime":533.12,"body":"creates an insecure attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":533.12,"endTime":536.45,"body":"style attachment styles are"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":533.12,"endTime":536.45,"body":"divided into secure attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":536.45,"endTime":539.63,"body":"style and insecure attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":536.45,"endTime":539.63,"body":"style. And if a child has an"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":539.63,"endTime":543.32,"body":"insecure attachment style, then"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":539.63,"endTime":543.32,"body":"they have had some kind of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":543.32,"endTime":546.59,"body":"attachment injury. The analogy"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":543.32,"endTime":546.59,"body":"would be say you were looking at"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":546.62,"endTime":550.25,"body":"walking styles and you put"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":546.62,"endTime":550.25,"body":"limping as a walking style, a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":550.25,"endTime":553.58,"body":"person is limping, not because"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":550.25,"endTime":553.58,"body":"that's their natural style of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":553.58,"endTime":555.26,"body":"walking, but because they have"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":553.58,"endTime":555.26,"body":"some kind of injury or"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":555.26,"endTime":558.29,"body":"impairment. So similarly, an"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":555.26,"endTime":558.29,"body":"attachment style that's not"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":558.29,"endTime":561.4399999999999,"body":"healthy is due to some kind of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":558.29,"endTime":561.4399999999999,"body":"injury or impairment."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":561.59,"endTime":563.75,"body":"The ultimate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":561.59,"endTime":563.75,"body":"goal of M-MAT then is to address"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":563.75,"endTime":564.83,"body":"that underlying injury."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":565.04,"endTime":567.17,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":565.04,"endTime":567.17,"body":"Yep, that's exactly."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":567.47,"endTime":570.05,"body":"So you developed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":567.47,"endTime":570.05,"body":"the M-MAT approach to supporting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.08,"endTime":573.47,"body":"kids with attachment injuries,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.08,"endTime":573.47,"body":"and M-MAT stands for multi modal"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.47,"endTime":577.1,"body":"attachment therapy. Now this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.47,"endTime":577.1,"body":"podcast is mostly for teachers"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":577.1,"endTime":579.53,"body":"and school leaders and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":577.1,"endTime":579.53,"body":"counsellors who work in schools"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":579.53,"endTime":581.72,"body":"and learning mentors. To them,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":579.53,"endTime":581.72,"body":"the meaning of attachment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":581.72,"endTime":585.4399999999999,"body":"therapy will be obvious, but to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":581.72,"endTime":585.4399999999999,"body":"worse, what's a little less"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":585.4399999999999,"endTime":588.68,"body":"obvious is multimodal, can you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":585.4399999999999,"endTime":588.68,"body":"go into what that part of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":588.68,"endTime":589.34,"body":"title means?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":589.4,"endTime":591.98,"body":"It's a blending"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":589.4,"endTime":591.98,"body":"of a variety of different"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":592.04,"endTime":595.1899999999999,"body":"therapy modalities. And I feel"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":592.04,"endTime":595.1899999999999,"body":"like it takes kind of the best"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":595.1899999999999,"endTime":598.34,"body":"of each and puts it together in"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":595.1899999999999,"endTime":598.34,"body":"a way that's very cohesive and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":598.34,"endTime":600.86,"body":"comes together and really helps"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":598.34,"endTime":600.86,"body":"the child by stimulating"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":600.86,"endTime":603.02,"body":"different parts of the brain,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":600.86,"endTime":603.02,"body":"but the cognitive piece, but"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":603.02,"endTime":606.2,"body":"then also more right brain kind"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":603.02,"endTime":606.2,"body":"of stuff through the play."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":606.26,"endTime":608.66,"body":"What kind of age"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":606.26,"endTime":608.66,"body":"ranges does this process work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":608.66,"endTime":608.9,"body":"with?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":609.0400000000001,"endTime":611.65,"body":"It's geared"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":609.0400000000001,"endTime":611.65,"body":"towards five to 12 year olds,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":611.65,"endTime":615.37,"body":"basically what we call latency"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":611.65,"endTime":615.37,"body":"age children, I have used it"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":615.37,"endTime":618.7900000000001,"body":"with teens and had clinicians"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":615.37,"endTime":618.7900000000001,"body":"that I supervised who worked"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":618.7900000000001,"endTime":622.4200000000001,"body":"with teens as well up to age 16,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":618.7900000000001,"endTime":622.4200000000001,"body":"you know, some modifications."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":622.75,"endTime":624.19,"body":"Now"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":622.75,"endTime":624.19,"body":"interventions for attachment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":624.19,"endTime":628.27,"body":"issues used in school, certainly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":624.19,"endTime":628.27,"body":"in the UK, kind of often focused"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.27,"endTime":631.72,"body":"on a counsellor or a mentor"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.27,"endTime":631.72,"body":"working alongside a child in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.72,"endTime":634.8100000000001,"body":"school, teaching them kind of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.72,"endTime":634.8100000000001,"body":"attachment skills, in like in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.8100000000001,"endTime":638.83,"body":"one to one sessions. But your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.8100000000001,"endTime":638.83,"body":"approach works differently. Can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.83,"endTime":641.02,"body":"you kind of explain how that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.83,"endTime":641.02,"body":"approach works?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":641.1700000000001,"endTime":644.2,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":641.1700000000001,"endTime":644.2,"body":"So by trying to teach attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":644.2,"endTime":646.78,"body":"skills, you're you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":644.2,"endTime":646.78,"body":"address the attachment style,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":646.78,"endTime":650.83,"body":"but you're not really addressing"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":646.78,"endTime":650.83,"body":"the underlying injury in M-MAT,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":650.86,"endTime":653.08,"body":"we, especially with the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":650.86,"endTime":653.08,"body":"attachment based play, we kind"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":653.08,"endTime":656.14,"body":"of go back a little bit a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":653.08,"endTime":656.14,"body":"child's allowed to regress and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":656.14,"endTime":659.26,"body":"go to that place where that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":656.14,"endTime":659.26,"body":"injury is in play is based on"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":659.26,"endTime":662.11,"body":"the earliest interactions"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":659.26,"endTime":662.11,"body":"between parents and children"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":662.11,"endTime":664.6,"body":"where you know, you make silly"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":662.11,"endTime":664.6,"body":"noises and the child responds"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":664.66,"endTime":668.77,"body":"everything from peekaboo to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":664.66,"endTime":668.77,"body":"silly singing games and clapping"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":668.77,"endTime":671.83,"body":"games, those kinds of things"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":668.77,"endTime":671.83,"body":"that involve touch or eye"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":671.83,"endTime":675.4300000000001,"body":"contact or rhythm. Those are all"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":671.83,"endTime":675.4300000000001,"body":"some of the first kinds of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":675.4300000000001,"endTime":679.36,"body":"interactions we have with our"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":675.4300000000001,"endTime":679.36,"body":"infants. And so every session"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":679.39,"endTime":682.8100000000001,"body":"starts at the beginning with"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":679.39,"endTime":682.8100000000001,"body":"that attachment based play."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":682.84,"endTime":685.72,"body":"There's a lot of healing there"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":682.84,"endTime":685.72,"body":"and then we may move on later in"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":685.72,"endTime":687.01,"body":"the session to the talk part."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":687.1,"endTime":690.4300000000001,"body":"We maybe work on skills building"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":687.1,"endTime":690.4300000000001,"body":"or looking at sort of restoring"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":690.4300000000001,"endTime":693.4,"body":"for the child, how they're"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":690.4300000000001,"endTime":693.4,"body":"viewing relationships. But that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":693.4,"endTime":696.4,"body":"attachment base plays really a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":693.4,"endTime":696.4,"body":"critical piece of of the M-MAT"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":696.4,"endTime":696.94,"body":"model."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":697.24,"endTime":698.86,"body":"And when you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":697.24,"endTime":698.86,"body":"running that play, these are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":698.86,"endTime":702.4300000000001,"body":"sessions with parents trying to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":698.86,"endTime":702.4300000000001,"body":"help the parent, undo that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":702.4300000000001,"endTime":705.16,"body":"damage with a child, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":702.4300000000001,"endTime":705.16,"body":"therapist role is to help that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":705.16,"endTime":706.12,"body":"connection rebuild."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":706.1800000000001,"endTime":707.89,"body":"When you're"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":706.1800000000001,"endTime":707.89,"body":"working with parents. And that's"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":707.89,"endTime":711.4,"body":"always the ideal is to have a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":707.89,"endTime":711.4,"body":"parent in the room. With primary"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":711.4,"endTime":714.22,"body":"caregiver, you're working on"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":711.4,"endTime":714.22,"body":"repairing that relationship. And"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":714.22,"endTime":717.1,"body":"sometimes the parent may not be"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":714.22,"endTime":717.1,"body":"the one who damaged that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":717.1,"endTime":720.6700000000001,"body":"relationship, it may be a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":717.1,"endTime":720.6700000000001,"body":"relative placement, or it may be"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":720.6700000000001,"endTime":724.4200000000001,"body":"a foster adoptive placement. But"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":720.6700000000001,"endTime":724.4200000000001,"body":"nevertheless, the child is"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":724.4200000000001,"endTime":727.5400000000001,"body":"holding that image of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":724.4200000000001,"endTime":727.5400000000001,"body":"relationship from their early"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":727.5400000000001,"endTime":730.75,"body":"relationships into this new"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":727.5400000000001,"endTime":730.75,"body":"relationship. And so it's trying"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":730.75,"endTime":733.5400000000001,"body":"to shift that for the child and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":730.75,"endTime":733.5400000000001,"body":"to heal that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":733.72,"endTime":736.09,"body":"The attachment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":733.72,"endTime":736.09,"body":"based play part of the session,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":736.33,"endTime":738.85,"body":"like you said, like follow the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":736.33,"endTime":738.85,"body":"leader and those kind of touch"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":738.85,"endTime":741.37,"body":"games, they're often games that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":738.85,"endTime":741.37,"body":"traditionally using much younger"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":741.37,"endTime":744.22,"body":"children, when you have slightly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":741.37,"endTime":744.22,"body":"older children, how do they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":744.22,"endTime":745.15,"body":"react to those?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":745.51,"endTime":747.28,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":745.51,"endTime":747.28,"body":"interesting, I can't tell you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":747.28,"endTime":749.83,"body":"the number of times when I first"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":747.28,"endTime":749.83,"body":"brought parents in, we've talked"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":749.83,"endTime":752.11,"body":"about this, and they'll be like,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":749.83,"endTime":752.11,"body":"Oh, my child won't do that. And"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":752.11,"endTime":754.72,"body":"a lot of attachment injured"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":752.11,"endTime":754.72,"body":"children are sort of pseudo"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":754.72,"endTime":757.45,"body":"mature again, they kind of feel"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":754.72,"endTime":757.45,"body":"like they have to make their own"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":757.45,"endTime":760.87,"body":"way in the world. And they may"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":757.45,"endTime":760.87,"body":"appear like super independent,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":760.9,"endTime":763.51,"body":"there may be some resistance,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":760.9,"endTime":763.51,"body":"but it really feeds an inner"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":763.51,"endTime":766.45,"body":"need for them, they're almost"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":763.51,"endTime":766.45,"body":"looking for permission to go to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":766.45,"endTime":767.6800000000001,"body":"that younger place."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":768.4300000000001,"endTime":770.38,"body":"I guess that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":768.4300000000001,"endTime":770.38,"body":"makes sense. Because they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":770.38,"endTime":773.6800000000001,"body":"revisiting kind of activities"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":770.38,"endTime":773.6800000000001,"body":"that they missed out at a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":773.6800000000001,"endTime":776.86,"body":"certain developmental stage,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":773.6800000000001,"endTime":776.86,"body":"that they need to be able to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":776.86,"endTime":779.5,"body":"integrate with other people with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":776.86,"endTime":779.5,"body":"their parents and with their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":779.53,"endTime":782.32,"body":"with their peers. So it makes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":779.53,"endTime":782.32,"body":"sense that it would enjoy that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":782.32,"endTime":784.9,"body":"because it would help them start"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":782.32,"endTime":784.9,"body":"to make sense of the world. How"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":784.9,"endTime":786.07,"body":"do parents react?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":786.28,"endTime":788.5,"body":"Well, that's a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":786.28,"endTime":788.5,"body":"very interesting question. They"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":788.5,"endTime":791.86,"body":"actually enjoy it as well. And"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":788.5,"endTime":791.86,"body":"and the fun part about it for"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":791.86,"endTime":794.71,"body":"the therapist is that you're"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":791.86,"endTime":794.71,"body":"engaging in this to you're"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":794.71,"endTime":797.47,"body":"modelling, you're providing sort"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":794.71,"endTime":797.47,"body":"of a buffer between parent and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":797.47,"endTime":799.9300000000001,"body":"child, if there's been a lot of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":797.47,"endTime":799.9300000000001,"body":"conflict, and you just make it"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":799.9300000000001,"endTime":803.2,"body":"fun, you laugh, you play you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":799.9300000000001,"endTime":803.2,"body":"giggle, you'd be silly,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":803.23,"endTime":806.2900000000001,"body":"sometimes the parent themselves,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":803.23,"endTime":806.2900000000001,"body":"it's healing for them, even"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":806.2900000000001,"endTime":807.46,"body":"though that's not the target."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":807.62,"endTime":810.2,"body":"So that's the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":807.62,"endTime":810.2,"body":"first part of a parent child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":810.23,"endTime":813.1700000000001,"body":"M-MAT session, there's some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":810.23,"endTime":813.1700000000001,"body":"attachment based play, the next"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":813.1700000000001,"endTime":815.6,"body":"part of the session is a bit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":813.1700000000001,"endTime":815.6,"body":"more challenging. That's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":815.66,"endTime":818.63,"body":"attachment talk, can you sort of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":815.66,"endTime":818.63,"body":"talk us through what happens in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":818.63,"endTime":819.9200000000001,"body":"that kind of middle part of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":818.63,"endTime":819.9200000000001,"body":"session?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":819.95,"endTime":822.32,"body":"The first time"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":819.95,"endTime":822.32,"body":"you do the actual talk piece"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":822.32,"endTime":824.48,"body":"with the parent and child, you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":822.32,"endTime":824.48,"body":"do what I call the story of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":824.48,"endTime":827.6,"body":"love, this is a really simple,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":824.48,"endTime":827.6,"body":"easy intervention, that just"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":827.6,"endTime":830.6,"body":"kind of you're setting the tone"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":827.6,"endTime":830.6,"body":"for the therapy. It's where you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":830.63,"endTime":833.36,"body":"talk to the parent and the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":830.63,"endTime":833.36,"body":"child's in the room. But the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":833.36,"endTime":834.98,"body":"child's listening, these"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":833.36,"endTime":834.98,"body":"children are very hyper"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":834.98,"endTime":836.87,"body":"vigilant, they're listening to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":834.98,"endTime":836.87,"body":"everything that's going on. And"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":837.1700000000001,"endTime":839.72,"body":"as the parents tell me, I'm"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":837.1700000000001,"endTime":839.72,"body":"really curious, you know, do you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":839.72,"endTime":841.7900000000001,"body":"remember the very first time you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":839.72,"endTime":841.7900000000001,"body":"felt left room and then the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":841.7900000000001,"endTime":844.58,"body":"parent then you know, responds,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":841.7900000000001,"endTime":844.58,"body":"whatever is appropriate, baby,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":844.58,"endTime":847.61,"body":"first time I saw their face, or"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":844.58,"endTime":847.61,"body":"it may be an adoptive parent or"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":847.61,"endTime":850.25,"body":"a relative caregiver, you're"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":847.61,"endTime":850.25,"body":"basically trying to create a new"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":850.25,"endTime":853.4,"body":"storyline in the attachment talk"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":850.25,"endTime":853.4,"body":"part. And this is kind of the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":853.4,"endTime":856.01,"body":"first part of doing that. So you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":853.4,"endTime":856.01,"body":"know, then you go well, okay, so"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":856.01,"endTime":858.23,"body":"I get that, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":856.01,"endTime":858.23,"body":"babies are so cute, aren't they?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":858.26,"endTime":860.24,"body":"You know, but what about like,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":858.26,"endTime":860.24,"body":"if it's a toddler, you know,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":860.24,"endTime":862.13,"body":"toddlers, they get into"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":860.24,"endTime":862.13,"body":"everything. They're kind of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":862.3100000000001,"endTime":864.5,"body":"active, they're all over the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":862.3100000000001,"endTime":864.5,"body":"place. Did you still love them"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":864.5,"endTime":866.72,"body":"then? And then of course, the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":864.5,"endTime":866.72,"body":"parent responds, and then you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":866.72,"endTime":870.26,"body":"move on to, you know, well, how"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":866.72,"endTime":870.26,"body":"about you know, now he's seven"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":870.26,"endTime":872.69,"body":"years old. Now, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":870.26,"endTime":872.69,"body":"still love him then and you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":872.69,"endTime":875.63,"body":"know, you just be curious and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":872.69,"endTime":875.63,"body":"kind of playful with it. But"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":875.63,"endTime":878.09,"body":"then you want to project it into"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":875.63,"endTime":878.09,"body":"the future? Well, you know, but"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":878.09,"endTime":880.91,"body":"when he's a teenager, you know,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":878.09,"endTime":880.91,"body":"he might decide to cut his hair"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":880.91,"endTime":883.61,"body":"funny, or, you know, strange"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":880.91,"endTime":883.61,"body":"clothes. Do you think you love"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":883.61,"endTime":886.4,"body":"them then? And so you move it"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":883.61,"endTime":886.4,"body":"into the future? You know, what,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":886.4,"endTime":888.77,"body":"what about when he's an adult,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":886.4,"endTime":888.77,"body":"he won't be your little baby"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":888.77,"endTime":891.65,"body":"anymore in the parents, oh,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":888.77,"endTime":891.65,"body":"well, he's always my baby. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":891.65,"endTime":894.2,"body":"someday he'll decide to have"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":891.65,"endTime":894.2,"body":"kids what if he has kids, those"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":894.2,"endTime":897.9200000000001,"body":"kids would be your"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":894.2,"endTime":897.9200000000001,"body":"grandchildren. And so you just"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":897.9200000000001,"endTime":901.88,"body":"are kind of creating the story"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":897.9200000000001,"endTime":901.88,"body":"of Okay, this is this love is"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":901.88,"endTime":902.72,"body":"forever."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":902.99,"endTime":905.84,"body":"That's all you do your first"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":902.99,"endTime":905.84,"body":"talk session you have, the next"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":905.84,"endTime":909.2,"body":"step in the talk portion is to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":905.84,"endTime":909.2,"body":"do what we call the attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":909.23,"endTime":912.5600000000001,"body":"narrative. And this is where"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":909.23,"endTime":912.5600000000001,"body":"you're really helping the child"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":912.62,"endTime":915.71,"body":"restore their life. And you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":912.62,"endTime":915.71,"body":"start with the child's birth,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":915.71,"endTime":917.39,"body":"and you have the again, the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":915.71,"endTime":917.39,"body":"parent and the child in the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":917.39,"endTime":920.03,"body":"session, this actually works"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":917.39,"endTime":920.03,"body":"really well for teens as well,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":920.12,"endTime":922.61,"body":"you know, you start with where"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":920.12,"endTime":922.61,"body":"were you born and the child"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":922.61,"endTime":924.86,"body":"contributes as much as they can,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":922.61,"endTime":924.86,"body":"if they don't contribute"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":924.86,"endTime":926.84,"body":"anything, that's fine, too. You"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":924.86,"endTime":926.84,"body":"get the information from the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":926.84,"endTime":929.84,"body":"parent, you just start talking"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":926.84,"endTime":929.84,"body":"about their life. And you start"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":929.84,"endTime":932.66,"body":"with from when they were born,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":929.84,"endTime":932.66,"body":"were they born in a hospital,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":932.66,"endTime":936.2900000000001,"body":"who they go home with, you go"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":932.66,"endTime":936.2900000000001,"body":"through and their strategies in"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":936.2900000000001,"endTime":940.61,"body":"the book for how to help that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":936.2900000000001,"endTime":940.61,"body":"story become a healthy, adaptive"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":940.61,"endTime":944.99,"body":"story, as opposed to a story of,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":940.61,"endTime":944.99,"body":"Oh, I was hurt, and I'm bad, you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":944.99,"endTime":949.16,"body":"really want to change the story"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":944.99,"endTime":949.16,"body":"to Oh, something's happened. And"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":949.16,"endTime":951.6800000000001,"body":"I'm okay. And like I said in the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":949.16,"endTime":951.6800000000001,"body":"book, there's a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":951.6800000000001,"endTime":953.12,"body":"strategies for doing that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":953.57,"endTime":954.9200000000001,"body":"When I looked"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":953.57,"endTime":954.9200000000001,"body":"through the book, I mean, there"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":954.9200000000001,"endTime":957.23,"body":"are lots of practical strategies"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":954.9200000000001,"endTime":957.23,"body":"in there. And basically, it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":957.23,"endTime":960.5,"body":"seems to be you're leading the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":957.23,"endTime":960.5,"body":"child and kind of a journey from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":960.53,"endTime":964.52,"body":"I am not safe towards I am safe."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":960.53,"endTime":964.52,"body":"And at one point, there's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":964.52,"endTime":967.85,"body":"suggestion that a parent or a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":964.52,"endTime":967.85,"body":"caregiver makes an apology to a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":967.85,"endTime":970.13,"body":"child, but the things that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":967.85,"endTime":970.13,"body":"happened to them or for them not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":970.13,"endTime":974.63,"body":"feeling safe. These are all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":970.13,"endTime":974.63,"body":"quite strong actions. They're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":974.63,"endTime":978.44,"body":"quite emotional conversations."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":974.63,"endTime":978.44,"body":"What do you do if the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":978.44,"endTime":981.59,"body":"can't cope can't regulate you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":978.44,"endTime":981.59,"body":"and those questions? How do they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":981.59,"endTime":982.5500000000001,"body":"react to those?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":982.71,"endTime":985.08,"body":"First of all,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":982.71,"endTime":985.08,"body":"by doing the attachment based"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":985.08,"endTime":987.33,"body":"play at the beginning and you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":985.08,"endTime":987.33,"body":"won't really start the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":987.33,"endTime":990.03,"body":"attachment narrative till you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":987.33,"endTime":990.03,"body":"know that the child is"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":990.0600000000001,"endTime":993.15,"body":"cooperating with the attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":990.0600000000001,"endTime":993.15,"body":"based play that is regulating in"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":993.15,"endTime":996.96,"body":"and of itself. And at the very"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":993.15,"endTime":996.96,"body":"end of the session, the closing"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":996.96,"endTime":1001.16,"body":"piece is also regulating, also"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":996.96,"endTime":1001.16,"body":"no demand is made of the child,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1001.4,"endTime":1004.46,"body":"when you're going through the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1001.4,"endTime":1004.46,"body":"story, and that gives them a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1004.46,"endTime":1008.1800000000001,"body":"little bit of space, they can"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1004.46,"endTime":1008.1800000000001,"body":"sit back and listen if they"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1008.1800000000001,"endTime":1011.09,"body":"want. Plus, the things that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1008.1800000000001,"endTime":1011.09,"body":"you're talking about are things"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1011.09,"endTime":1014.0600000000001,"body":"that are already going through"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1011.09,"endTime":1014.0600000000001,"body":"their head. And because you're"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1014.09,"endTime":1018.35,"body":"framing it in such a more"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1014.09,"endTime":1018.35,"body":"healthy way, often children get"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1018.38,"endTime":1021.89,"body":"a strong sense of relief. Plus,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1018.38,"endTime":1021.89,"body":"you do not go into trauma into"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1021.89,"endTime":1025.43,"body":"details. You talk about, you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1021.89,"endTime":1025.43,"body":"know, hard things happen, then"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1025.43,"endTime":1029.42,"body":"you talk about what the child"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1025.43,"endTime":1029.42,"body":"may have learned from that, and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1029.48,"endTime":1032.8999999999999,"body":"what's really true. So you're"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1029.48,"endTime":1032.8999999999999,"body":"doing all this corrective work"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1032.8999999999999,"endTime":1036.23,"body":"as you go. And, and that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1032.8999999999999,"endTime":1036.23,"body":"corrective work, it's really the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1036.23,"endTime":1039.47,"body":"underlying meaning that creates"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1036.23,"endTime":1039.47,"body":"the biggest anxiety, I believe,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1039.47,"endTime":1042.56,"body":"for children. But if you're"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1039.47,"endTime":1042.56,"body":"correcting that, as you go,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1042.62,"endTime":1045.56,"body":"children often experience"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1042.62,"endTime":1045.56,"body":"actually a lot of relief, you do"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1045.56,"endTime":1048.32,"body":"want to keep an eye on the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1045.56,"endTime":1048.32,"body":"child. And you know, you can"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1048.32,"endTime":1051.29,"body":"always lighten up or backup if"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1048.32,"endTime":1051.29,"body":"you do feel like they're getting"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1051.32,"endTime":1051.8899999999999,"body":"triggered."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1052.1,"endTime":1053.96,"body":"We do some work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1052.1,"endTime":1053.96,"body":"with kids who have experienced"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1053.96,"endTime":1056.27,"body":"domestic violence. And it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1053.96,"endTime":1056.27,"body":"amazing that you talk to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1056.27,"endTime":1059.24,"body":"parents, and they say it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1056.27,"endTime":1059.24,"body":"directed at them, but they still"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1059.24,"endTime":1061.73,"body":"assume it's their fault. They"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1059.24,"endTime":1061.73,"body":"assume they're responsible for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1061.73,"endTime":1063.11,"body":"everything that happens at a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1061.73,"endTime":1063.11,"body":"certain age."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1063.35,"endTime":1063.8,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1064.1299999999999,"endTime":1066.71,"body":"I was fascinated"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1064.1299999999999,"endTime":1066.71,"body":"by the final section of M-MAT."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1066.74,"endTime":1069.86,"body":"It's where the child is fed by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1066.74,"endTime":1069.86,"body":"the parents and you go through"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1069.86,"endTime":1072.59,"body":"some attachment based questions."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1069.86,"endTime":1072.59,"body":"And in the book, when you read"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.59,"endTime":1075.77,"body":"it, it makes absolute sense. Can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.59,"endTime":1075.77,"body":"you talk about the purpose of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1075.77,"endTime":1079.19,"body":"the feeding? And then talk about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1075.77,"endTime":1079.19,"body":"what kind of questions you ask?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1079.58,"endTime":1081.62,"body":"Yeah, well, the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1079.58,"endTime":1081.62,"body":"feeding is really very, very"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1081.62,"endTime":1083.81,"body":"symbolic. As a therapist,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1081.62,"endTime":1083.81,"body":"usually with a parent's"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1083.81,"endTime":1085.94,"body":"permission, you bring you know,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1083.81,"endTime":1085.94,"body":"little crackers, or some little"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1085.94,"endTime":1089.75,"body":"treats that child likes and the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1085.94,"endTime":1089.75,"body":"parent literally feed them to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1089.75,"endTime":1092.57,"body":"the child. And you do that with"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1089.75,"endTime":1092.57,"body":"the questions but it's very"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1092.57,"endTime":1095.93,"body":"symbolic of I can take care of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1092.57,"endTime":1095.93,"body":"you and I can nurture you, it's"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1095.93,"endTime":1098.6,"body":"one of the things about em mat"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1095.93,"endTime":1098.6,"body":"is that it's really a lot about"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1098.6,"endTime":1101.3899999999999,"body":"repetition. So this isn't"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1098.6,"endTime":1101.3899999999999,"body":"something you do one session,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1101.3899999999999,"endTime":1104.54,"body":"and then you don't do anymore,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1101.3899999999999,"endTime":1104.54,"body":"you do it every single session."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1104.54,"endTime":1107.6299999999999,"body":"So over the weeks, it becomes"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1104.54,"endTime":1107.6299999999999,"body":"ingrained, it becomes a pattern."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1107.6299999999999,"endTime":1111.2,"body":"Same with the attachment based"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1107.6299999999999,"endTime":1111.2,"body":"play. Also, it's very grounding."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1111.2,"endTime":1114.4699999999998,"body":"I mean, food is grounding for"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1111.2,"endTime":1114.4699999999998,"body":"all of us. But like you said,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1114.4699999999998,"endTime":1116.57,"body":"you know, if we've talked about"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1114.4699999999998,"endTime":1116.57,"body":"some difficult things in the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1116.57,"endTime":1119.4199999999998,"body":"session, it's a good way to kind"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1116.57,"endTime":1119.4199999999998,"body":"of get grounded back into our"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1119.4199999999998,"endTime":1121.1599999999999,"body":"bodies and back into the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1119.4199999999998,"endTime":1121.1599999999999,"body":"present."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1121.34,"endTime":1123.23,"body":"So we've got the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1121.34,"endTime":1123.23,"body":"other parents and child session"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1123.23,"endTime":1127.04,"body":"where you can see the aim is to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1123.23,"endTime":1127.04,"body":"help the child understand the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1127.04,"endTime":1130.58,"body":"story of their lives, put right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1127.04,"endTime":1130.58,"body":"any mistakes they've made in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1130.58,"endTime":1134.2099999999998,"body":"terms of thinking errors, engage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1130.58,"endTime":1134.2099999999998,"body":"in attachment based activities"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1134.2099999999998,"endTime":1137.4499999999998,"body":"to kind of rebuild the skills"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1134.2099999999998,"endTime":1137.4499999999998,"body":"that they they never had in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1137.4499999999998,"endTime":1139.76,"body":"first place and connect with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1137.4499999999998,"endTime":1139.76,"body":"adult. I think that's really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1139.76,"endTime":1143.9599999999998,"body":"powerful. But also and M-MAT has"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1139.76,"endTime":1143.9599999999998,"body":"parent only sessions. And can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1143.9599999999998,"endTime":1147.23,"body":"you talk a little about what the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1143.9599999999998,"endTime":1147.23,"body":"purpose of those are and how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1147.23,"endTime":1147.83,"body":"they're structured?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1148.25,"endTime":1151.4599999999998,"body":"Yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1148.25,"endTime":1151.4599999999998,"body":"parents only sessions are much"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1151.4599999999998,"endTime":1154.28,"body":"less structured than the parent"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1151.4599999999998,"endTime":1154.28,"body":"child sessions, they're based on"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1154.28,"endTime":1156.32,"body":"the needs of the parent,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1154.28,"endTime":1156.32,"body":"children with attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1156.32,"endTime":1159.62,"body":"injuries can be extremely"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1156.32,"endTime":1159.62,"body":"challenging, because they may"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1159.62,"endTime":1163.07,"body":"reject the parents attempts to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1159.62,"endTime":1163.07,"body":"help them they may even engage"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1163.07,"endTime":1165.9499999999998,"body":"in behaviour that's specifically"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1163.07,"endTime":1165.9499999999998,"body":"hurtful towards the parents."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1166.07,"endTime":1168.83,"body":"That session is, again is based"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1166.07,"endTime":1168.83,"body":"on what you've assessed the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1168.83,"endTime":1171.56,"body":"needs of the parents are, do"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1168.83,"endTime":1171.56,"body":"they need help? A lot of parents"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1171.56,"endTime":1174.08,"body":"have found it really useful to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1171.56,"endTime":1174.08,"body":"come into the session and tell"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1174.08,"endTime":1176.7199999999998,"body":"me you know, what happened this"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1174.08,"endTime":1176.7199999999998,"body":"week in this particular"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1176.7199999999998,"endTime":1179.84,"body":"incidents, and we can go over"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1176.7199999999998,"endTime":1179.84,"body":"how what they could do, what"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1179.84,"endTime":1181.76,"body":"they could have done different,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1179.84,"endTime":1181.76,"body":"you know how they could handle"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1181.76,"endTime":1183.9499999999998,"body":"that. And they find that a lot"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1181.76,"endTime":1183.9499999999998,"body":"more useful than going to, you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1183.9499999999998,"endTime":1186.83,"body":"know, sort of a generic"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1183.9499999999998,"endTime":1186.83,"body":"parenting class. You also,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1186.83,"endTime":1190.55,"body":"though, want to work on making"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1186.83,"endTime":1190.55,"body":"sure the parent has adequate"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1190.55,"endTime":1191.8999999999999,"body":"supports in their life."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1192.05,"endTime":1194.54,"body":"Every child and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1192.05,"endTime":1194.54,"body":"every family, obviously, have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1194.54,"endTime":1197.84,"body":"individual problems and issues."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1194.54,"endTime":1197.84,"body":"But how long does this sort of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1197.84,"endTime":1201.29,"body":"process take to have an impact?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1197.84,"endTime":1201.29,"body":"And what changes? Do you see at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1201.29,"endTime":1203.48,"body":"the end of the process? What"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1201.29,"endTime":1203.48,"body":"kind of practical impact do you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1203.48,"endTime":1203.75,"body":"say?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1203.8899999999999,"endTime":1206.02,"body":"Yeah, really"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1203.8899999999999,"endTime":1206.02,"body":"good question. You know, often,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1206.02,"endTime":1208.48,"body":"by the time they come to me,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1206.02,"endTime":1208.48,"body":"they've been through therapy for"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1208.48,"endTime":1211.1799999999998,"body":"a number of years that maybe"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1208.48,"endTime":1211.1799999999998,"body":"hasn't been effective. And I"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1211.1799999999998,"endTime":1214.8999999999999,"body":"asked them to give me 10 weeks,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1211.1799999999998,"endTime":1214.8999999999999,"body":"10 weeks of regular sessions,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1214.8999999999999,"endTime":1217.4199999999998,"body":"not the assessment sessions to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1214.8999999999999,"endTime":1217.4199999999998,"body":"really work with them and their"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1217.4199999999998,"endTime":1220.36,"body":"child. And then at the end of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1217.4199999999998,"endTime":1220.36,"body":"that 10 weeks, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1220.36,"endTime":1224.26,"body":"attachment issues aren't going"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1220.36,"endTime":1224.26,"body":"to be gone. But there should be"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1224.26,"endTime":1228.34,"body":"enough of a shift that they can"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1224.26,"endTime":1228.34,"body":"see progress. And that shift can"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1228.34,"endTime":1231.1,"body":"be pretty subtle. Maybe now in"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1228.34,"endTime":1231.1,"body":"the session, they're actually"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1231.1,"endTime":1234.49,"body":"having fun together. Maybe it"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1231.1,"endTime":1234.49,"body":"took four weeks for them to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1234.49,"endTime":1236.83,"body":"actually have fun in the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1234.49,"endTime":1236.83,"body":"attachment based play for the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1236.83,"endTime":1239.9199999999998,"body":"child to be really responsive to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1236.83,"endTime":1239.9199999999998,"body":"that maybe at home they're a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1239.9199999999998,"endTime":1243.76,"body":"little bit more responsive or or"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1239.9199999999998,"endTime":1243.76,"body":"their tantrums are a little less"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1243.76,"endTime":1247.2099999999998,"body":"intense, and how long the whole"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1243.76,"endTime":1247.2099999999998,"body":"process will take. That, of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1247.2099999999998,"endTime":1249.85,"body":"course, depends on every"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1247.2099999999998,"endTime":1249.85,"body":"situation, I think shortest has"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1249.85,"endTime":1253.4199999999998,"body":"been maybe a total of six to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1249.85,"endTime":1253.4199999999998,"body":"nine months. Longest has been"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1253.4499999999998,"endTime":1256.03,"body":"over a number of years, yet"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1253.4499999999998,"endTime":1256.03,"body":"there's been progress, steady"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1256.03,"endTime":1260.3799999999999,"body":"progress over those years. What"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1256.03,"endTime":1260.3799999999999,"body":"we want to do in this therapy is"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1260.3799999999999,"endTime":1265.3,"body":"to really shift them so that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1260.3799999999999,"endTime":1265.3,"body":"they can now access relationship"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1265.3,"endTime":1268.57,"body":"as a resource, they can access"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1265.3,"endTime":1268.57,"body":"their parents as a resource, and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1268.57,"endTime":1271.87,"body":"are no longer fearful of that"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1268.57,"endTime":1271.87,"body":"connection. That's the goal."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1272.35,"endTime":1274.99,"body":"So that leads us"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1272.35,"endTime":1274.99,"body":"neatly actually on to what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1274.99,"endTime":1278.77,"body":"happens when that parent or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1274.99,"endTime":1278.77,"body":"caregiver won't or can't engage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1278.77,"endTime":1281.4699999999998,"body":"with you in that process. You've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1278.77,"endTime":1281.4699999999998,"body":"got something called the M-MAT"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1281.5,"endTime":1284.5,"body":"individual process. Can you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1281.5,"endTime":1284.5,"body":"explain how this differs from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1284.5,"endTime":1286.06,"body":"the process we've described so"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1284.5,"endTime":1286.06,"body":"far?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1286.6,"endTime":1290.4399999999998,"body":"Yeah. With an"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1286.6,"endTime":1290.4399999999998,"body":"individual, again, you don't"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1290.4399999999998,"endTime":1294.6999999999998,"body":"have a parent in the room, the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1290.4399999999998,"endTime":1294.6999999999998,"body":"structure is really similar. You"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1294.6999999999998,"endTime":1298.6299999999999,"body":"do do attachment based play, but"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1294.6999999999998,"endTime":1298.6299999999999,"body":"you maintain certain boundaries"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1298.6299999999999,"endTime":1302.02,"body":"with that, because you have to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1298.6299999999999,"endTime":1302.02,"body":"you're not, you're not trying to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1302.02,"endTime":1304.7199999999998,"body":"be the child's parent, but you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1302.02,"endTime":1304.7199999999998,"body":"still want to give the child"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1304.7199999999998,"endTime":1307.9299999999998,"body":"that experience of play. One of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1304.7199999999998,"endTime":1307.9299999999998,"body":"the easiest ways is to think of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1307.9299999999998,"endTime":1310.36,"body":"what what would be appropriate"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1307.9299999999998,"endTime":1310.36,"body":"peer to peer, you know, peer to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1310.36,"endTime":1313.4499999999998,"body":"peer would be clapping games,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1310.36,"endTime":1313.4499999999998,"body":"maybe to do follow the leader"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1313.4499999999998,"endTime":1316.27,"body":"games, and then leave some of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1313.4499999999998,"endTime":1316.27,"body":"the more intimate ones like"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1316.27,"endTime":1318.6699999999998,"body":"obviously holding and rocking a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1316.27,"endTime":1318.6699999999998,"body":"child and singing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1318.6699999999998,"endTime":1320.8,"body":"singing, some of the lullabies"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1318.6699999999998,"endTime":1320.8,"body":"would not be appropriate or"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1320.8,"endTime":1324.6399999999999,"body":"latency age child and a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1320.8,"endTime":1324.6399999999999,"body":"therapist. And that in of itself"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1324.6399999999999,"endTime":1327.3999999999999,"body":"is helpful for the child, just"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1324.6399999999999,"endTime":1327.3999999999999,"body":"having that experience is"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1327.3999999999999,"endTime":1328.36,"body":"helpful for the child."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1328.6,"endTime":1331.51,"body":"At the next point, when you go"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1328.6,"endTime":1331.51,"body":"through the attachment narrative"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1331.51,"endTime":1334.24,"body":"in the same way you would with a"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1331.51,"endTime":1334.24,"body":"parent in the room, because this"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1334.24,"endTime":1337.8999999999999,"body":"child doesn't have that secure"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1334.24,"endTime":1337.8999999999999,"body":"support this child is is kind of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1337.8999999999999,"endTime":1340.9299999999998,"body":"alone in the world. So you do"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1337.8999999999999,"endTime":1340.9299999999998,"body":"some of the things that people"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1340.9299999999998,"endTime":1344.59,"body":"do with child therapy Anyway,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1340.9299999999998,"endTime":1344.59,"body":"you use metaphor use stories,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1344.59,"endTime":1347.29,"body":"you talk about the story of the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1344.59,"endTime":1347.29,"body":"bunny, whose parents were always"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1347.29,"endTime":1350.1399999999999,"body":"fighting, and then you do some"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1347.29,"endTime":1350.1399999999999,"body":"corrective work within those"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1350.1399999999999,"endTime":1353.4099999999999,"body":"stories, rather than directly"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1350.1399999999999,"endTime":1353.4099999999999,"body":"talking about the child's story,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1353.53,"endTime":1355.4199999999998,"body":"again, for some of the reasons"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1353.53,"endTime":1355.4199999999998,"body":"you mentioned earlier, you know,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1355.4199999999998,"endTime":1358.24,"body":"not wanting to trigger the child"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1355.4199999999998,"endTime":1358.24,"body":"not wanting to also bring up"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1358.24,"endTime":1361.6899999999998,"body":"their defences. And then I build"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1358.24,"endTime":1361.6899999999998,"body":"in after that a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1361.6899999999998,"endTime":1364.27,"body":"the non directive play therapy,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1361.6899999999998,"endTime":1364.27,"body":"which I don't do at all in the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1364.27,"endTime":1367.03,"body":"parent child sessions. But this"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1364.27,"endTime":1367.03,"body":"is where the child kind of leads"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1367.03,"endTime":1370.4499999999998,"body":"the play. And then you end with"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1367.03,"endTime":1370.4499999999998,"body":"some positive questions. Again,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1370.4499999999998,"endTime":1373.57,"body":"not as much relationship based"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1370.4499999999998,"endTime":1373.57,"body":"as you would with the parent"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1373.6,"endTime":1376.57,"body":"about successes and things like"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1373.6,"endTime":1376.57,"body":"that. So they step out of the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1376.57,"endTime":1378.9699999999998,"body":"room with some some positive"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1376.57,"endTime":1378.9699999999998,"body":"thoughts in their head."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1379.1499999999999,"endTime":1380.86,"body":"Catherine, if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1379.1499999999999,"endTime":1380.86,"body":"you're a school leader right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1380.86,"endTime":1384.04,"body":"now, or a parent listening to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1380.86,"endTime":1384.04,"body":"this podcast, what's the first"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1384.04,"endTime":1387.6399999999999,"body":"step you can take to start"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1384.04,"endTime":1387.6399999999999,"body":"learning more about the process"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1387.6399999999999,"endTime":1389.26,"body":"or helping kids with that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1387.6399999999999,"endTime":1389.26,"body":"process?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1389.56,"endTime":1391.8999999999999,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1389.56,"endTime":1391.8999999999999,"body":"the first step would be to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1392.1399999999999,"endTime":1395.8,"body":"actually get the book, it's"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1392.1399999999999,"endTime":1395.8,"body":"available on Amazon. It's called"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1395.83,"endTime":1399.58,"body":"M-MAT, multimodal attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1395.83,"endTime":1399.58,"body":"therapy, healing attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1399.58,"endTime":1402.28,"body":"injuries in children and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1399.58,"endTime":1402.28,"body":"families, because that's where"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1402.28,"endTime":1405.9099999999999,"body":"you'll really get the main gist"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1402.28,"endTime":1405.9099999999999,"body":"of what this is all about. Also,"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1405.9099999999999,"endTime":1409.1799999999998,"body":"for parents, I have just"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1405.9099999999999,"endTime":1409.1799999999998,"body":"published a new book for parents"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1409.1799999999998,"endTime":1411.6699999999998,"body":"specifically and other"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1409.1799999999998,"endTime":1411.6699999999998,"body":"caregivers, which is"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1411.76,"endTime":1414.9099999999999,"body":"understanding attachment"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1411.76,"endTime":1414.9099999999999,"body":"injuries in children, and how to"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1414.9099999999999,"endTime":1418.09,"body":"help a guide for parents and"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1414.9099999999999,"endTime":1418.09,"body":"caregivers. And that has a lot"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1418.09,"endTime":1421.03,"body":"of practical parenting"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1418.09,"endTime":1421.03,"body":"strategies goes much more into"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1421.03,"endTime":1424.0,"body":"the parenting piece of working"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1421.03,"endTime":1424.0,"body":"with these children. So I think"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1424.03,"endTime":1426.9099999999999,"body":"either of those would be a great"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1424.03,"endTime":1426.9099999999999,"body":"resource for parents and for"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1426.9399999999998,"endTime":1428.32,"body":"educational professionals."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1428.9499999999998,"endTime":1431.56,"body":"And what we'll"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1428.9499999999998,"endTime":1431.56,"body":"do is we'll drop a link to those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1431.59,"endTime":1435.1599999999999,"body":"in the shownotes. Finally, we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1431.59,"endTime":1435.1599999999999,"body":"ask this of all our guests,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1435.2199999999998,"endTime":1438.28,"body":"who's the key figure that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1435.2199999999998,"endTime":1438.28,"body":"influenced you? Or what was the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1438.28,"endTime":1441.9699999999998,"body":"key book that you read, that had"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1438.28,"endTime":1441.9699999999998,"body":"the biggest impact on your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1441.9699999999998,"endTime":1443.3799999999999,"body":"approach to working with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1441.9699999999998,"endTime":1443.3799999999999,"body":"children?"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1443.8,"endTime":1446.1699999999998,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1443.8,"endTime":1446.1699999999998,"body":"actually, there's two influences"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1446.1699999999998,"endTime":1449.02,"body":"that kind of had the biggest"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1446.1699999999998,"endTime":1449.02,"body":"impact for me. One was Dan"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1449.02,"endTime":1452.02,"body":"Siegel, who anyone who knows"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1449.02,"endTime":1452.02,"body":"he's big in the field of"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1452.02,"endTime":1454.4499999999998,"body":"attachment and working with"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1452.02,"endTime":1454.4499999999998,"body":"children, and I went to training"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1454.4499999999998,"endTime":1457.6,"body":"quite a few years ago. And it"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1454.4499999999998,"endTime":1457.6,"body":"was before he was really as well"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1457.6,"endTime":1461.05,"body":"known as he is now and it really"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1457.6,"endTime":1461.05,"body":"just got me thinking it was on"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1461.05,"endTime":1463.54,"body":"attachment. And it really kind"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1461.05,"endTime":1463.54,"body":"of started me off in this"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1463.54,"endTime":1466.6,"body":"direction. And then the other"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1463.54,"endTime":1466.6,"body":"one would be Theraplay, which i"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1466.6299999999999,"endTime":1470.7099999999998,"body":", is an attachment play bas"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1466.6299999999999,"endTime":1470.7099999999998,"body":"d model of therapy, which al"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1470.8,"endTime":1472.9599999999998,"body":"o kind of brought me to t"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1470.8,"endTime":1472.9599999999998,"body":"e attachment based play and t"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1472.9599999999998,"endTime":1475.48,"body":"e importance of that my model"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1472.9599999999998,"endTime":1475.48,"body":"s slightly different th"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1475.48,"endTime":1478.36,"body":"n theraplay. But But that was"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1475.48,"endTime":1478.36,"body":"a big influence as wel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1479.08,"endTime":1481.126,"body":"Catherine, thank"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1479.08,"endTime":1481.126,"body":"you for being on our podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1479.08,"endTime":1482.1999999999998,"body":"."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1481.1699999999998,"endTime":1483.705,"body":"I'm not on your payroll. But I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1481.1699999999998,"endTime":1483.705,"body":"think your book has done a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1483.75,"endTime":1486.0629999999999,"body":"brilliant job of joining the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1483.75,"endTime":1486.0629999999999,"body":"dots between theory and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1486.107,"endTime":1488.865,"body":"practice, in my opinion, and I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1486.107,"endTime":1488.865,"body":"think every school every SENCO,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1488.9089999999999,"endTime":1491.8899999999999,"body":"every counsel and every learning"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1488.9089999999999,"endTime":1491.8899999999999,"body":"mentor should have a copy of this."},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1491.8899999999999,"endTime":1494.475,"body":"Well, thank you"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1491.8899999999999,"endTime":1494.475,"body":"very much. And I appreciate the"},{"speaker":"Catherine Young","startTime":1494.53,"endTime":1495.85,"body":"chance to talk about it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1495.85,"endTime":1498.09,"body":"Wasn't that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1495.85,"endTime":1498.09,"body":"interesting? I like the optimism"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1498.1409999999998,"endTime":1501.299,"body":"and practicality of it. And what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1498.1409999999998,"endTime":1501.299,"body":"I like about M-MAT is that it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1501.349,"endTime":1504.5069999999998,"body":"deals with the real problem the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1501.349,"endTime":1504.5069999999998,"body":"relationship between the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1504.558,"endTime":1507.817,"body":"and the adult, which is the real"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1504.558,"endTime":1507.817,"body":"issue rather than attempting to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1507.868,"endTime":1510.1599999999999,"body":"heal the problem rather than fix"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1507.868,"endTime":1510.1599999999999,"body":"the symptom."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1510.1599999999999,"endTime":1513.144,"body":"After listening"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1510.1599999999999,"endTime":1513.144,"body":"to that, if you suspect that a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1513.2089999999998,"endTime":1516.7769999999998,"body":"child in your class is showing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1513.2089999999998,"endTime":1516.7769999999998,"body":"behaviours that might be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1516.8419999999999,"endTime":1520.735,"body":"consistent with attachment,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1516.8419999999999,"endTime":1520.735,"body":"we've got a free download called"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1520.8,"endTime":1524.5629999999999,"body":"the SEN handbook that could"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1520.8,"endTime":1524.5629999999999,"body":"really help. What the handbook"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1524.628,"endTime":1527.937,"body":"does is helps you to link"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1524.628,"endTime":1527.937,"body":"classroom behaviours with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1528.002,"endTime":1531.83,"body":"possible causes, like autism"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1528.002,"endTime":1531.83,"body":"attachment, or ADHD. Now, this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1531.895,"endTime":1535.982,"body":"is not about making a diagnosis"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1531.895,"endTime":1535.982,"body":"because as teachers, we're just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1536.0469999999998,"endTime":1540.07,"body":"not qualified to do that. But to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1536.0469999999998,"endTime":1540.07,"body":"get the ball rolling with the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1540.135,"endTime":1543.962,"body":"process of linking behaviours"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1540.135,"endTime":1543.962,"body":"with possible causes, so that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1544.0269999999998,"endTime":1548.05,"body":"you can start to get the right"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1544.0269999999998,"endTime":1548.05,"body":"help or the right professionals"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1548.115,"endTime":1551.359,"body":"involved. It's a free download,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1548.115,"endTime":1551.359,"body":"go to our website,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1551.424,"endTime":1555.187,"body":"www.beaconschoolsupport.co.uk."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1551.424,"endTime":1555.187,"body":"Click on the free resources"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1555.252,"endTime":1559.2099999999998,"body":"section near the top. And the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1555.252,"endTime":1559.2099999999998,"body":"link is also in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1559.2099999999998,"endTime":1560.915,"body":"Early"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1559.2099999999998,"endTime":1560.915,"body":"interventions, the keys to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1560.9679999999998,"endTime":1564.0059999999999,"body":"success there. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1560.9679999999998,"endTime":1564.0059999999999,"body":"listening to today's show. Next"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1564.059,"endTime":1567.204,"body":"week we're going to be answering"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1564.059,"endTime":1567.204,"body":"the question, do gratitude"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1567.2569999999998,"endTime":1570.135,"body":"diaries really help children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1567.2569999999998,"endTime":1570.135,"body":"build resilience? Do they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1570.1889999999999,"endTime":1573.4399999999998,"body":"actually work we'll be looking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1570.1889999999999,"endTime":1573.4399999999998,"body":"at the research and separating"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1573.493,"endTime":1576.7969999999998,"body":"the science from the internet"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1573.493,"endTime":1576.7969999999998,"body":"myth. So if you've been thinking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1576.8509999999999,"endTime":1580.048,"body":"about using gratitude journals"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1576.8509999999999,"endTime":1580.048,"body":"with your students, or you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1580.1019999999999,"endTime":1583.3,"body":"using them already, this will be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1580.1019999999999,"endTime":1583.3,"body":"especially valuable to you."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1583.3,"endTime":1585.9019999999998,"body":"Finally, if you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1583.3,"endTime":1585.9019999999998,"body":"like what you've heard, and you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1585.9569999999999,"endTime":1589.225,"body":"don't want to miss the next"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1585.9569999999999,"endTime":1589.225,"body":"episode, Open your podcasts app"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1589.28,"endTime":1592.492,"body":"now and press the subscribe"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1589.28,"endTime":1592.492,"body":"button that will tell your app"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1592.5469999999998,"endTime":1595.703,"body":"to automatically download each"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1592.5469999999998,"endTime":1595.703,"body":"and every new episode on a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1595.759,"endTime":1598.9699999999998,"body":"Tuesday. So it's sitting there"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1595.759,"endTime":1598.9699999999998,"body":"waiting for you when you're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1599.0259999999998,"endTime":1602.403,"body":"ready to listen. Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1599.0259999999998,"endTime":1602.403,"body":"listening to school behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1602.4589999999998,"endTime":1605.837,"body":"Have a great week and we look"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1602.4589999999998,"endTime":1605.837,"body":"forward to talking to you again"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1605.8919999999998,"endTime":1607.0,"body":"in the next episode."}]}