{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":87.35,"endTime":90.64999999999999,"body":"What works best in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":87.35,"endTime":90.64999999999999,"body":"my experience for youngsters"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":90.67999999999999,"endTime":95.47999999999999,"body":"with a PDA profile is to have a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":90.67999999999999,"endTime":95.47999999999999,"body":"start point, which is about"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":95.53999999999999,"endTime":100.52,"body":"understanding. It's not about"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":95.53999999999999,"endTime":100.52,"body":"judging or forcing. It's about"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":100.52,"endTime":105.28999999999999,"body":"let me get to know you. Who are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":100.52,"endTime":105.28999999999999,"body":"you and what works for you? And"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":105.28999999999999,"endTime":109.00999999999999,"body":"how do we navigate your"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":105.28999999999999,"endTime":109.00999999999999,"body":"experience of education"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":109.03999999999999,"endTime":109.72999999999999,"body":"together?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":109.88999999999999,"endTime":113.28,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":109.88999999999999,"endTime":113.28,"body":"school behavior secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":113.33999999999999,"endTime":116.52,"body":"I'm your host, Simon Currigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":113.33999999999999,"endTime":116.52,"body":"My co host is Emma Shackleton"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":116.52,"endTime":119.94,"body":"and we're obsessed with helping"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":116.52,"endTime":119.94,"body":"teachers, school leaders,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.94,"endTime":123.47999999999999,"body":"parents, and of course students."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.94,"endTime":123.47999999999999,"body":"When classroom behavior gets in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":123.47999999999999,"endTime":126.3,"body":"the way of success. We're going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":123.47999999999999,"endTime":126.3,"body":"to share the tried and tested"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":126.3,"endTime":129.63,"body":"secrets to classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":126.3,"endTime":129.63,"body":"behavioral special needs whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.63,"endTime":132.84,"body":"school strategy and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.63,"endTime":132.84,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.84,"endTime":135.93,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.84,"endTime":135.93,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":135.93,"endTime":138.99,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":135.93,"endTime":138.99,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":138.99,"endTime":142.70999999999998,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":138.99,"endTime":142.70999999999998,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.70999999999998,"endTime":147.06,"body":"evidence based strategies before"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.70999999999998,"endTime":147.06,"body":"anyone else. This is the school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":147.06,"endTime":148.98,"body":"behavior secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.34,"endTime":153.26999999999998,"body":"Welcome to Episode 16 of school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.34,"endTime":153.26999999999998,"body":"behavior secrets at 16. The"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":153.26999999999998,"endTime":156.14999999999998,"body":"podcast is now old enough to get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":153.26999999999998,"endTime":156.14999999999998,"body":"married, fly a glider, join the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":156.14999999999998,"endTime":159.12,"body":"army buy a lottery ticket and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":156.14999999999998,"endTime":159.12,"body":"drive a tractor. But it'll still"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.12,"endTime":162.51,"body":"have to wait two more years to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.12,"endTime":162.51,"body":"get a tattoo that says I love my"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":162.51,"endTime":165.66,"body":"mom. I'd like to welcome my co"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":162.51,"endTime":165.66,"body":"host Emma Shackleton to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":165.66,"endTime":166.58999999999997,"body":"show. Hi, Emma."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":166.67,"endTime":167.69,"body":"Hi, Simon."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.82999999999998,"endTime":170.38,"body":"Emma, before we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.82999999999998,"endTime":170.38,"body":"talk about today's episode, I'd"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.38,"endTime":175.0,"body":"like to ask you a question. Tell"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.38,"endTime":175.0,"body":"me about a time you tried to get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":175.0,"endTime":176.8,"body":"out of doing something you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":175.0,"endTime":176.8,"body":"been asked to do."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":176.82999999999998,"endTime":179.26,"body":"Well, I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":176.82999999999998,"endTime":179.26,"body":"remember quite a long time ago,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":179.35,"endTime":183.7,"body":"being invited to a party that I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":179.35,"endTime":183.7,"body":"really didn't fancy going to."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":183.82,"endTime":186.43,"body":"And I was a little bit on the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":183.82,"endTime":186.43,"body":"fence and I was trying to make"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.43,"endTime":190.03,"body":"up my mind whether to go or not."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.43,"endTime":190.03,"body":"And then my friends started"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":190.03,"endTime":193.45,"body":"trying to convince me that I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":190.03,"endTime":193.45,"body":"should go. And the more that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":193.45,"endTime":197.86,"body":"they tried to give reasons why I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":193.45,"endTime":197.86,"body":"should go, the more that they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":197.89,"endTime":202.39,"body":"tried to encourage me, the more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":197.89,"endTime":202.39,"body":"it made me dig my heels in until"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":202.39,"endTime":206.32,"body":"eventually I was absolutely"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":202.39,"endTime":206.32,"body":"determined not to go no matter"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":206.32,"endTime":206.70999999999998,"body":"what."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":207.07,"endTime":209.5,"body":"Hold on, was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":207.07,"endTime":209.5,"body":"that in 2017? Was that was that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.5,"endTime":212.89,"body":"my party? You said you're at a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.5,"endTime":212.89,"body":"funeral. I think that example"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":212.89,"endTime":215.62,"body":"links perfectly with what we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":212.89,"endTime":215.62,"body":"going to talk about today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":215.73999999999998,"endTime":219.4,"body":"Because we're going to speak to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":215.73999999999998,"endTime":219.4,"body":"Ruth Fidler who's an expert on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.4,"endTime":222.79,"body":"pathological demand avoidance or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.4,"endTime":222.79,"body":"PDA as you might hear it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.79,"endTime":226.48,"body":"referred to. She is going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.79,"endTime":226.48,"body":"explain what PDA is, how it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":226.48,"endTime":229.98999999999998,"body":"affects people's behavior in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":226.48,"endTime":229.98999999999998,"body":"classroom, and what support"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":230.01999999999998,"endTime":231.31,"body":"strategies can help."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":231.38,"endTime":234.01999999999998,"body":"But before we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":231.38,"endTime":234.01999999999998,"body":"get into that, I'd like to say"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":234.04999999999998,"endTime":237.76999999999998,"body":"that if you find today's episode"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":234.04999999999998,"endTime":237.76999999999998,"body":"useful help other teachers and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":237.76999999999998,"endTime":241.51999999999998,"body":"school leaders find the podcast"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":237.76999999999998,"endTime":241.51999999999998,"body":"by giving us a rating and review"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":241.54999999999998,"endTime":245.51,"body":"on Apple podcasts. Every review"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":241.54999999999998,"endTime":245.51,"body":"encourages Apple to recommend"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":245.51,"endTime":249.38,"body":"school behavior secrets to other"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":245.51,"endTime":249.38,"body":"listeners, so they can find the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":249.38,"endTime":251.96,"body":"show and start getting the help"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":249.38,"endTime":251.96,"body":"they need to support the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":251.96,"endTime":255.98,"body":"children in their classrooms. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":251.96,"endTime":255.98,"body":"now let's jump straight into"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":255.98,"endTime":257.48,"body":"that interview with Ruth."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":257.79999999999995,"endTime":259.99,"body":"I'd like to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":257.79999999999995,"endTime":259.99,"body":"welcome today's guest Ruth"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.02,"endTime":263.56,"body":"Fidler. Ruth's an educational"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.02,"endTime":263.56,"body":"consultant who specializes in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":263.56,"endTime":266.77,"body":"complex forms of autism,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":263.56,"endTime":266.77,"body":"including pathological demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":266.77,"endTime":270.64,"body":"avoidance, and pupils emotional"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":266.77,"endTime":270.64,"body":"well being. Before becoming a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.64,"endTime":273.85,"body":"consultant, she worked as a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.64,"endTime":273.85,"body":"senior leader in an all age"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":273.85,"endTime":277.75,"body":"special school for 94 students"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":273.85,"endTime":277.75,"body":"with autism. She's got plenty of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":277.75,"endTime":281.59000000000003,"body":"practical experience, working"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":277.75,"endTime":281.59000000000003,"body":"with high needs pupils. Ruth's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":281.59000000000003,"endTime":284.71000000000004,"body":"member of the National PDA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":281.59000000000003,"endTime":284.71000000000004,"body":"development group, and she's co"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":284.71000000000004,"endTime":287.71000000000004,"body":"author of a number of books"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":284.71000000000004,"endTime":287.71000000000004,"body":"including Understanding"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.71000000000004,"endTime":291.34000000000003,"body":"pathological demand avoidance"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.71000000000004,"endTime":291.34000000000003,"body":"syndrome in children, and Girls"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":291.34000000000003,"endTime":294.43,"body":"and Autism to name just two. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":291.34000000000003,"endTime":294.43,"body":"today, she's going to use her"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":294.43,"endTime":298.45,"body":"expertise to help us understand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":294.43,"endTime":298.45,"body":"PDA, how its impacts on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":298.45,"endTime":301.39,"body":"children's emotions and behavior"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":298.45,"endTime":301.39,"body":"in the classroom, and what we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":301.39,"endTime":305.35,"body":"can do to support students with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":301.39,"endTime":305.35,"body":"the condition. Ruth, welcome to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":305.35,"endTime":305.86,"body":"the show."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":306.2,"endTime":308.84000000000003,"body":"Thank you very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":306.2,"endTime":308.84000000000003,"body":"much. Thank you for inviting me."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":309.44,"endTime":311.87,"body":"So let's start"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":309.44,"endTime":311.87,"body":"with the obvious question. What"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.9,"endTime":314.75,"body":"is pathological demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.9,"endTime":314.75,"body":"avoidance?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":314.98,"endTime":318.58,"body":"Well, I feel that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":314.98,"endTime":318.58,"body":"pathological demand avoidance is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":318.58,"endTime":323.77,"body":"best understood as one of the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":318.58,"endTime":323.77,"body":"autism spectrum conditions. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":323.86,"endTime":327.94,"body":"our profile on the autism"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":323.86,"endTime":327.94,"body":"spectrum, that means, of course,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":327.94,"endTime":331.69,"body":"that you can't have PDA without"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":327.94,"endTime":331.69,"body":"having an autism spectrum"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":331.72,"endTime":336.66999999999996,"body":"condition. So the starting point"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":331.72,"endTime":336.66999999999996,"body":"is looking at some of those core"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":336.7,"endTime":341.08,"body":"differences that we would see"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":336.7,"endTime":341.08,"body":"across the autism spectrum. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":341.08,"endTime":345.34000000000003,"body":"differences in how people make"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":341.08,"endTime":345.34000000000003,"body":"sense of their environment and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":345.34000000000003,"endTime":348.58000000000004,"body":"their social environment, how"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":345.34000000000003,"endTime":348.58000000000004,"body":"they will use their social"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":348.58000000000004,"endTime":352.92999999999995,"body":"communication, how they manage"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":348.58000000000004,"endTime":352.92999999999995,"body":"social relationships, how they"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":352.92999999999995,"endTime":358.05999999999995,"body":"respond flexibly in everyday"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":352.92999999999995,"endTime":358.05999999999995,"body":"problem solving situations, and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":358.05999999999995,"endTime":362.98,"body":"how they're impacted in terms of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":358.05999999999995,"endTime":362.98,"body":"their sensory profile. So those"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":362.98,"endTime":366.78999999999996,"body":"are the four key areas of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":362.98,"endTime":366.78999999999996,"body":"difference in autism. Then if we"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":366.78999999999996,"endTime":371.20000000000005,"body":"start to look a little bit in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":366.78999999999996,"endTime":371.20000000000005,"body":"more detail at an individual,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":371.23,"endTime":375.07000000000005,"body":"we'd then be wanting to find out"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":371.23,"endTime":375.07000000000005,"body":"well what is their personal"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":375.07000000000005,"endTime":379.41999999999996,"body":"profile of autism? How does"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":375.07000000000005,"endTime":379.41999999999996,"body":"their autism help us to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":379.41999999999996,"endTime":383.67999999999995,"body":"understand them and how does"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":379.41999999999996,"endTime":383.67999999999995,"body":"their autism impact upon them,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":383.98,"endTime":386.74,"body":"and for children and young"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":383.98,"endTime":386.74,"body":"people? Well for all"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":386.74,"endTime":390.42999999999995,"body":"individuals, With a pathological"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":386.74,"endTime":390.42999999999995,"body":"demand avoidance profile, what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":390.42999999999995,"endTime":394.80999999999995,"body":"we see is that they are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":390.42999999999995,"endTime":394.80999999999995,"body":"characterized by extremely high"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":394.80999999999995,"endTime":400.53999999999996,"body":"anxiety. That anxiety is often"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":394.80999999999995,"endTime":400.53999999999996,"body":"triggered by a perception or an"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":400.53999999999996,"endTime":405.46000000000004,"body":"interpretation of demands. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":400.53999999999996,"endTime":405.46000000000004,"body":"those demands might be actual"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":405.49,"endTime":409.39,"body":"real observable demands that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":405.49,"endTime":409.39,"body":"somebody might be telling them"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":409.39,"endTime":412.96000000000004,"body":"go and do this, put that there."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":409.39,"endTime":412.96000000000004,"body":"But there might be implied or"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":412.96000000000004,"endTime":417.13,"body":"implicit demands as well. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":412.96000000000004,"endTime":417.13,"body":"that could include demands of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":417.15999999999997,"endTime":421.57000000000005,"body":"the environment that we usually"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":417.15999999999997,"endTime":421.57000000000005,"body":"do this at this time, or mum"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":421.57000000000005,"endTime":424.15,"body":"always looks at me like that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":421.57000000000005,"endTime":424.15,"body":"when she's trying to start the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":424.15,"endTime":428.04999999999995,"body":"bedtime routine, or my teacher"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":424.15,"endTime":428.04999999999995,"body":"always enters the room with a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":428.04999999999995,"endTime":431.95000000000005,"body":"pile of papers when they're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":428.04999999999995,"endTime":431.95000000000005,"body":"about to ask me to do a task."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":432.01,"endTime":435.03999999999996,"body":"And interestingly, and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":432.01,"endTime":435.03999999999996,"body":"importantly, for young people"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":435.03999999999996,"endTime":440.11,"body":"with PDA, that demand avoidance"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":435.03999999999996,"endTime":440.11,"body":"can even be triggered when we"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":440.14,"endTime":445.12,"body":"are asking them to do something"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":440.14,"endTime":445.12,"body":"that is within their capability."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":445.15,"endTime":449.71000000000004,"body":"So lots of us try and avoid"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":445.15,"endTime":449.71000000000004,"body":"doing things that we aren't very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":449.71000000000004,"endTime":453.13,"body":"good at, or we don't know how to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":449.71000000000004,"endTime":453.13,"body":"do or we don't like doing that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":453.13,"endTime":456.66999999999996,"body":"is part of the human condition."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":453.13,"endTime":456.66999999999996,"body":"And that's not a surprise. For"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":456.66999999999996,"endTime":461.98,"body":"individuals with PDA, they will"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":456.66999999999996,"endTime":461.98,"body":"also try and avoid or feel"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":461.98,"endTime":466.53999999999996,"body":"driven to avoid rather doing"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":461.98,"endTime":466.53999999999996,"body":"activities, which they often"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":466.53999999999996,"endTime":470.35,"body":"enjoy. Or they might even have"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":466.53999999999996,"endTime":470.35,"body":"been their idea, or certainly"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":470.35,"endTime":473.47,"body":"they are within their"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":470.35,"endTime":473.47,"body":"capability. That is the main"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":473.5,"endTime":478.78,"body":"characterization of that PDA"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":473.5,"endTime":478.78,"body":"profile. And then we also see a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":478.78,"endTime":483.15999999999997,"body":"difference in comparison to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":478.78,"endTime":483.15999999999997,"body":"other autism profiles in terms"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":483.15999999999997,"endTime":487.29999999999995,"body":"of their social communication."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":483.15999999999997,"endTime":487.29999999999995,"body":"Often, they may come across as"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":487.29999999999995,"endTime":492.25,"body":"having a high degree of social"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":487.29999999999995,"endTime":492.25,"body":"surface sociability, but it"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":492.25,"endTime":496.57000000000005,"body":"might lack the depth that people"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":492.25,"endTime":496.57000000000005,"body":"will assume if they're not"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":496.57000000000005,"endTime":498.76,"body":"tuning in well enough to that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":496.57000000000005,"endTime":498.76,"body":"young person."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":498.79999999999995,"endTime":501.04999999999995,"body":"What do you mean"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":498.79999999999995,"endTime":501.04999999999995,"body":"by surface sociability?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":501.259,"endTime":503.95899999999995,"body":"What I mean by"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":501.259,"endTime":503.95899999999995,"body":"surface sociability is that they"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":503.95899999999995,"endTime":507.289,"body":"might have learned a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":503.95899999999995,"endTime":507.289,"body":"social nuances of how to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":507.289,"endTime":511.279,"body":"navigate a conversation. And"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":507.289,"endTime":511.279,"body":"they might be better tuned in to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":511.279,"endTime":513.889,"body":"some of the social timing, they"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":511.279,"endTime":513.889,"body":"might have a better"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":513.889,"endTime":518.209,"body":"understanding of jokes and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":513.889,"endTime":518.209,"body":"teasing than some other"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":518.209,"endTime":522.409,"body":"individuals with autism spectrum"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":518.209,"endTime":522.409,"body":"conditions. But that can be lie"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":522.439,"endTime":526.549,"body":"underneath there can still be"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":522.439,"endTime":526.549,"body":"some disruption and differences"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":526.579,"endTime":530.389,"body":"in their social communication,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":526.579,"endTime":530.389,"body":"and therefore in how they"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":530.419,"endTime":534.619,"body":"navigate their social"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":530.419,"endTime":534.619,"body":"relationships. That might be"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":534.619,"endTime":539.059,"body":"particularly tricky for some of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":534.619,"endTime":539.059,"body":"those youngsters to deal with"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":539.059,"endTime":542.989,"body":"social repair. So if something"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":539.059,"endTime":542.989,"body":"is going along in their social"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":542.989,"endTime":546.379,"body":"relationship, and it's all going"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":542.989,"endTime":546.379,"body":"smoothly, that's great. But if"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":546.379,"endTime":549.829,"body":"something goes a little bit"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":546.379,"endTime":549.829,"body":"awry, understanding what's gone"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":549.829,"endTime":554.059,"body":"awry, where that issue has"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":549.829,"endTime":554.059,"body":"arisen from and how to repair it"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":554.059,"endTime":556.759,"body":"can present significant"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":554.059,"endTime":556.759,"body":"difficulties."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":556.91,"endTime":559.31,"body":"So I'm guessing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":556.91,"endTime":559.31,"body":"that surface sociability might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":559.31,"endTime":562.16,"body":"meet that some needs get missed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":559.31,"endTime":562.16,"body":"if you weren't paying attention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":562.16,"endTime":565.04,"body":"and digging down into what the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":562.16,"endTime":565.04,"body":"child's truly understanding"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":565.07,"endTime":566.72,"body":"those needs might get missed in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":565.07,"endTime":566.72,"body":"the classroom."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":567.019,"endTime":570.169,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":567.019,"endTime":570.169,"body":"that is often the case, we also"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":570.169,"endTime":574.729,"body":"see that with the profile of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":570.169,"endTime":574.729,"body":"some girls with autism, because"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":574.759,"endTime":577.579,"body":"similarly, they might have"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":574.759,"endTime":577.579,"body":"learned some more of those"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":577.609,"endTime":582.649,"body":"surface social skills. They"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":577.609,"endTime":582.649,"body":"might be tuning into mimicking a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":582.649,"endTime":586.909,"body":"degree of social awareness. But"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":582.649,"endTime":586.909,"body":"there's something a little bit"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":586.939,"endTime":591.289,"body":"mistimed, or just missing the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":586.939,"endTime":591.289,"body":"mark in their connection with"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":591.289,"endTime":591.649,"body":"that,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":591.889,"endTime":594.019,"body":"why does having"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":591.889,"endTime":594.019,"body":"a diagnosis or a distinct"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":594.019,"endTime":596.959,"body":"description of the PDA profile"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":594.019,"endTime":596.959,"body":"make a difference?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":597.01,"endTime":599.86,"body":"Well, I think there"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":597.01,"endTime":599.86,"body":"are some really important key"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":599.89,"endTime":604.03,"body":"ways. One of them is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":599.89,"endTime":604.03,"body":"fundamentally about the well"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":604.03,"endTime":608.14,"body":"being of the individuals with a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":604.03,"endTime":608.14,"body":"PDA profile. Because often what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":608.14,"endTime":612.13,"body":"happens and we see this across"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":608.14,"endTime":612.13,"body":"all sorts of differences, and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":612.13,"endTime":615.46,"body":"certainly within the world of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":612.13,"endTime":615.46,"body":"autism spectrum conditions. If"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":615.46,"endTime":619.21,"body":"somebody doesn't have a degree"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":615.46,"endTime":619.21,"body":"of understanding of their"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":619.21,"endTime":622.09,"body":"profile and of their"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":619.21,"endTime":622.09,"body":"differences, actually, it makes"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":622.09,"endTime":625.99,"body":"it much harder for them to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":622.09,"endTime":625.99,"body":"manage their lives, their social"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":625.99,"endTime":628.96,"body":"relationships, their"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":625.99,"endTime":628.96,"body":"aspirations, and that's not"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":628.96,"endTime":632.6800000000001,"body":"about limiting them, that's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":628.96,"endTime":632.6800000000001,"body":"about helping support their self"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":632.6800000000001,"endTime":636.61,"body":"awareness so that they are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":632.6800000000001,"endTime":636.61,"body":"better equipped for knowing what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":636.61,"endTime":640.9300000000001,"body":"is likely to work well for them."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":636.61,"endTime":640.9300000000001,"body":"And therefore, to accessing the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":640.9300000000001,"endTime":646.0,"body":"help that they need. It can also"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":640.9300000000001,"endTime":646.0,"body":"seriously support their self"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":646.09,"endTime":650.65,"body":"esteem. Because if you are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":646.09,"endTime":650.65,"body":"experiencing differences that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":650.65,"endTime":654.61,"body":"sometimes present difficulties"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":650.65,"endTime":654.61,"body":"into your life, and you don't"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":654.61,"endTime":659.65,"body":"have an explanation or a context"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":654.61,"endTime":659.65,"body":"to understand that within, then"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":659.77,"endTime":664.24,"body":"a lot of young people might turn"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":659.77,"endTime":664.24,"body":"that in on themselves and have a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":664.24,"endTime":667.45,"body":"very negative view of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":664.24,"endTime":667.45,"body":"themselves, or unfortunately"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":667.45,"endTime":672.4300000000001,"body":"might get really unhelpful,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":667.45,"endTime":672.4300000000001,"body":"unkind labels if you like, from"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":672.46,"endTime":677.14,"body":"some of their peers. The other"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":672.46,"endTime":677.14,"body":"really key factor in getting a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":677.14,"endTime":681.91,"body":"distinctive diagnosis is about"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":677.14,"endTime":681.91,"body":"having access to the right sort"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":681.91,"endTime":686.02,"body":"of approaches. So if somebody"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":681.91,"endTime":686.02,"body":"with a PDA profile is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":686.08,"endTime":690.25,"body":"understood, as having In an"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":686.08,"endTime":690.25,"body":"autism spectrum condition, and a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":690.25,"endTime":694.1800000000001,"body":"lot of the usual good autism"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":690.25,"endTime":694.1800000000001,"body":"practice strategies are put in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":694.1800000000001,"endTime":699.01,"body":"place, because those are largely"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":694.1800000000001,"endTime":699.01,"body":"centered around clarity and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":699.01,"endTime":702.97,"body":"predictability. And there are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":699.01,"endTime":702.97,"body":"lots of benefits of that. But"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":703.0,"endTime":707.47,"body":"the downside of it is that what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":703.0,"endTime":707.47,"body":"it can produce in strategies is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":707.53,"endTime":711.46,"body":"an approach that is very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":707.53,"endTime":711.46,"body":"structured and not very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":711.46,"endTime":715.1800000000001,"body":"flexible. And that means that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":711.46,"endTime":715.1800000000001,"body":"that approach is very heavy on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":715.1800000000001,"endTime":719.02,"body":"demand. And so for the young"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":715.1800000000001,"endTime":719.02,"body":"person with PDA, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":719.02,"endTime":722.02,"body":"be regularly and repeatedly"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":719.02,"endTime":722.02,"body":"triggering their demand"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":722.02,"endTime":722.77,"body":"avoidance."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":722.8000000000001,"endTime":725.11,"body":"Because they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":722.8000000000001,"endTime":725.11,"body":"know exactly when to expect"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":725.14,"endTime":726.49,"body":"demands throughout the day?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":726.52,"endTime":729.25,"body":"Yes, and because"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":726.52,"endTime":729.25,"body":"they come thick and fast. If you"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":729.25,"endTime":733.15,"body":"think about a sort of like a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":729.25,"endTime":733.15,"body":"visual timetable or something,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":733.1800000000001,"endTime":736.63,"body":"or teach strategies, where it's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":733.1800000000001,"endTime":736.63,"body":"a do this first, then that then"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":736.63,"endTime":738.91,"body":"the next then you know you're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":736.63,"endTime":738.91,"body":"finished on when you finish, you"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":738.91,"endTime":742.78,"body":"move on to something different."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":738.91,"endTime":742.78,"body":"There are significant advantages"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":742.78,"endTime":746.23,"body":"of that in terms of it being"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":742.78,"endTime":746.23,"body":"structured and predictable. And"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":746.23,"endTime":750.13,"body":"that has a positive impact on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":746.23,"endTime":750.13,"body":"reducing anxiety. But for"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":750.13,"endTime":755.02,"body":"somebody with PDA, that positive"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":750.13,"endTime":755.02,"body":"impact might be outweighed by"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":755.02,"endTime":758.9200000000001,"body":"the negative impact of receiving"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":755.02,"endTime":758.9200000000001,"body":"a shopping list of demands."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":758.9200000000001,"endTime":759.58,"body":"Essentially,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":759.62,"endTime":760.94,"body":"it all comes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":759.62,"endTime":760.94,"body":"back to looking at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":760.94,"endTime":764.8100000000001,"body":"individual child, what works for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":760.94,"endTime":764.8100000000001,"body":"them, and looking at ways of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":764.8100000000001,"endTime":767.8100000000001,"body":"helping them cope with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":764.8100000000001,"endTime":767.8100000000001,"body":"anxieties and demands throughout"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":767.8100000000001,"endTime":768.2,"body":"the day."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":768.25,"endTime":771.52,"body":"Yes, absolutely. I"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":768.25,"endTime":771.52,"body":"think it's important to be clear"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":771.52,"endTime":775.78,"body":"that when people like myself"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":771.52,"endTime":775.78,"body":"talk about strategies that are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":775.78,"endTime":778.8100000000001,"body":"helpful for young people with"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":775.78,"endTime":778.8100000000001,"body":"PDA, and we talk about being"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":778.84,"endTime":783.0400000000001,"body":"flexible and adaptable and child"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":778.84,"endTime":783.0400000000001,"body":"centered, that doesn't mean that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":783.0400000000001,"endTime":786.73,"body":"we're saying will lift all"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":783.0400000000001,"endTime":786.73,"body":"expectations, anything goes just"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":786.73,"endTime":790.3000000000001,"body":"do what works for them at any"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":786.73,"endTime":790.3000000000001,"body":"given moment. Because what we"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":790.3000000000001,"endTime":794.41,"body":"are saying is tune into that,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":790.3000000000001,"endTime":794.41,"body":"know how far you can go know"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":794.41,"endTime":797.77,"body":"where to push the boundaries,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":794.41,"endTime":797.77,"body":"where to prioritize different"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":797.77,"endTime":801.88,"body":"areas of learning, because long"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":797.77,"endTime":801.88,"body":"term, what we want is we want to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":801.88,"endTime":806.14,"body":"increase their tolerance to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":801.88,"endTime":806.14,"body":"expectations, not because we"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":806.14,"endTime":809.9200000000001,"body":"want to control them, or tell"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":806.14,"endTime":809.9200000000001,"body":"them what to do a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":809.9200000000001,"endTime":813.25,"body":"time, but because of this thing"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":809.9200000000001,"endTime":813.25,"body":"that I was describing at the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":813.25,"endTime":816.5500000000001,"body":"beginning, about a lot of those"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":813.25,"endTime":816.5500000000001,"body":"expectations are internally"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":816.5500000000001,"endTime":819.61,"body":"generated. So if we want to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":816.5500000000001,"endTime":819.61,"body":"support young people to be"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":819.61,"endTime":823.6,"body":"aspirational, we want them to be"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":819.61,"endTime":823.6,"body":"able to see through some of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":823.6,"endTime":827.2,"body":"their own aspirations and their"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":823.6,"endTime":827.2,"body":"own choices, not just those"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":827.2,"endTime":828.3100000000001,"body":"coming externally."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":828.37,"endTime":830.62,"body":"So when a demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":828.37,"endTime":830.62,"body":"is placed on the child. How do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":830.62,"endTime":833.9200000000001,"body":"they experience it internally"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":830.62,"endTime":833.9200000000001,"body":"differently from other children?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":833.95,"endTime":835.78,"body":"How can we put ourselves in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":833.95,"endTime":835.78,"body":"their shoes?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":836.07,"endTime":838.89,"body":"Well, that's a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":836.07,"endTime":838.89,"body":"really interesting question. I"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":838.89,"endTime":842.7,"body":"think this comes full circle"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":838.89,"endTime":842.7,"body":"straight back to that you need"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":842.7,"endTime":847.14,"body":"to find out what that experience"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":842.7,"endTime":847.14,"body":"is like for that individual. And"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":847.14,"endTime":850.89,"body":"I don't think there's one answer"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":847.14,"endTime":850.89,"body":"to that question. I think it's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":850.89,"endTime":856.2900000000001,"body":"very interesting to look at that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":850.89,"endTime":856.2900000000001,"body":"broader context. So to not just"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":856.2900000000001,"endTime":860.37,"body":"look at, is this child not doing"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":856.2900000000001,"endTime":860.37,"body":"what I'm asking them to do in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":860.37,"endTime":865.1700000000001,"body":"the classroom because they seem"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":860.37,"endTime":865.1700000000001,"body":"to come across as deliberately"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":865.1700000000001,"endTime":869.07,"body":"difficult? Or what are the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":865.1700000000001,"endTime":869.07,"body":"broader explanations around"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":869.07,"endTime":872.88,"body":"that? If you keep in the back of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":869.07,"endTime":872.88,"body":"your mind, that notion of, how"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":872.88,"endTime":876.24,"body":"does this individuals Autism"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":872.88,"endTime":876.24,"body":"Spectrum condition impact on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":876.24,"endTime":879.87,"body":"them? Are there some issues"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":876.24,"endTime":879.87,"body":"around understanding? Are there"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":879.87,"endTime":883.23,"body":"some issues around social"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":879.87,"endTime":883.23,"body":"communication? Are there some"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":883.23,"endTime":887.3100000000001,"body":"differences around their sensory"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":883.23,"endTime":887.3100000000001,"body":"profile? has their anxiety just"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":887.3100000000001,"endTime":890.3100000000001,"body":"been triggered? Which I might"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":887.3100000000001,"endTime":890.3100000000001,"body":"not have spotted triggering"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":890.3100000000001,"endTime":893.88,"body":"myself, maybe I have done"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":890.3100000000001,"endTime":893.88,"body":"inadvertently, am I seeing some"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":893.88,"endTime":898.44,"body":"demonstration of anxiety that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":893.88,"endTime":898.44,"body":"looks like this in that person,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":898.53,"endTime":901.83,"body":"but might look different in a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":898.53,"endTime":901.83,"body":"different person, some of us"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":901.86,"endTime":904.74,"body":"tend to be much more expressive"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":901.86,"endTime":904.74,"body":"and explosive, when we're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":904.74,"endTime":908.61,"body":"anxious, and others tend to shut"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":904.74,"endTime":908.61,"body":"down. So we need to understand"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":908.61,"endTime":911.73,"body":"what that looks like in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":908.61,"endTime":911.73,"body":"different individuals, don't we?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":911.88,"endTime":915.12,"body":"And one of the things I talk a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":911.88,"endTime":915.12,"body":"lot to school practitioners"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":915.12,"endTime":918.9300000000001,"body":"about is looking at what's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":915.12,"endTime":918.9300000000001,"body":"running in the background. So if"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":918.9300000000001,"endTime":922.08,"body":"you think of it in I.T. terms,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":918.9300000000001,"endTime":922.08,"body":"what are the background apps"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":922.08,"endTime":926.0400000000001,"body":"that you've got open at any"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":922.08,"endTime":926.0400000000001,"body":"given time? And is that little"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":926.0400000000001,"endTime":929.1,"body":"thing you're asking that child"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":926.0400000000001,"endTime":929.1,"body":"to do or just pop up on the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":929.1,"endTime":933.87,"body":"table? Is that just one too"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":929.1,"endTime":933.87,"body":"many, even though it's not an"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":933.87,"endTime":936.99,"body":"unreasonable thing, and it's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":933.87,"endTime":936.99,"body":"asked in a very polite and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":936.99,"endTime":941.52,"body":"gentle and kindly way, etc. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":936.99,"endTime":941.52,"body":"being aware of what's going on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":941.5500000000001,"endTime":945.9300000000001,"body":"for that individual, and how"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":941.5500000000001,"endTime":945.9300000000001,"body":"many simultaneously difficult"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":945.9300000000001,"endTime":949.95,"body":"things they are being asked to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":945.9300000000001,"endTime":949.95,"body":"accommodate. And on top of that,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":949.95,"endTime":954.0,"body":"I think there are lots of very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":949.95,"endTime":954.0,"body":"valid reasons why many of us"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":954.03,"endTime":957.12,"body":"don't want to do what we're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":954.03,"endTime":957.12,"body":"being asked to do. It happens to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":957.12,"endTime":960.78,"body":"us all, doesn't it? And some of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":957.12,"endTime":960.78,"body":"those reasons might be that I"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":960.78,"endTime":964.71,"body":"don't understand what you're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":960.78,"endTime":964.71,"body":"asking me to do. Or I did think"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":964.71,"endTime":968.34,"body":"it sounded quite a good idea."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":964.71,"endTime":968.34,"body":"But now it's happening. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":968.34,"endTime":971.7,"body":"feeling in the mood so much or"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":968.34,"endTime":971.7,"body":"something else has come up. I"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":971.7,"endTime":975.57,"body":"prefer to do that now. Or I"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":971.7,"endTime":975.57,"body":"don't like the way you asked me."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":975.9300000000001,"endTime":979.65,"body":"Or I want to do something else"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":975.9300000000001,"endTime":979.65,"body":"in a different way. Because that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":979.65,"endTime":983.1,"body":"now looks more exciting, but"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":979.65,"endTime":983.1,"body":"I'll come back to this later."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":983.1,"endTime":987.4200000000001,"body":"Can we negotiate on it? There"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":983.1,"endTime":987.4200000000001,"body":"are all sorts of reasons why"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":987.45,"endTime":993.03,"body":"somebody might not be in a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":987.45,"endTime":993.03,"body":"position to cooperate. That is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":993.0600000000001,"endTime":997.59,"body":"the very sad state of affairs."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":993.0600000000001,"endTime":997.59,"body":"If education practitioners go"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":997.59,"endTime":1001.4,"body":"too quickly to an assumption"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":997.59,"endTime":1001.4,"body":"that the reason is they are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1001.4,"endTime":1005.4200000000001,"body":"being deliberately difficult, or"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1001.4,"endTime":1005.4200000000001,"body":"they are somehow defying my"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1005.4200000000001,"endTime":1009.47,"body":"authority in my classroom,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1005.4200000000001,"endTime":1009.47,"body":"because that's probably quite"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1009.47,"endTime":1011.72,"body":"low down the list if you"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1009.47,"endTime":1011.72,"body":"unpicked it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1011.35,"endTime":1017.8000000000001,"body":"I just like to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1011.35,"endTime":1017.8000000000001,"body":"take a pause for a moment and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1017.8000000000001,"endTime":1020.65,"body":"say that if you're finding this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1017.8000000000001,"endTime":1020.65,"body":"podcast useful, then you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1020.65,"endTime":1024.01,"body":"going to love what we've got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1020.65,"endTime":1024.01,"body":"waiting for you in that Inner"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1024.01,"endTime":1027.76,"body":"Circle program. The Inner Circle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1024.01,"endTime":1027.76,"body":"is your one stop shop for all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1027.79,"endTime":1031.24,"body":"things behaviour. It's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1027.79,"endTime":1031.24,"body":"comprehensive platform, filled"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1031.24,"endTime":1034.84,"body":"with videos resources on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1031.24,"endTime":1034.84,"body":"behaviour inspiration to get you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1035.08,"endTime":1037.69,"body":"unstuck with classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1035.08,"endTime":1037.69,"body":"behaviour. We've got training"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1037.69,"endTime":1041.6499999999999,"body":"resources on de escalation,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1037.69,"endTime":1041.6499999999999,"body":"supporting kids with anxiety"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1041.86,"endTime":1045.1299999999999,"body":"support strategies for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1041.86,"endTime":1045.1299999999999,"body":"conditions like autism, ADHD,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1045.1299999999999,"endTime":1049.03,"body":"and PDA. practical ways of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1045.1299999999999,"endTime":1049.03,"body":"helping pupils deal with strong"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1049.06,"endTime":1052.03,"body":"emotions, assertive behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1049.06,"endTime":1052.03,"body":"management techniques for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1052.03,"endTime":1054.73,"body":"managing the whole classroom,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1052.03,"endTime":1054.73,"body":"setting out your classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1054.73,"endTime":1057.61,"body":"environment for success,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1054.73,"endTime":1057.61,"body":"resetting behaviour with tricky"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1057.61,"endTime":1060.94,"body":"classes, and more. Our online"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1057.61,"endTime":1060.94,"body":"videos walk you through"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1060.94,"endTime":1065.53,"body":"practical solutions, step by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1060.94,"endTime":1065.53,"body":"step. Just like Netflix, you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.53,"endTime":1068.26,"body":"turn an Inner Circle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.53,"endTime":1068.26,"body":"subscription on or off whenever"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1068.26,"endTime":1072.19,"body":"you need to, with no minimum"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1068.26,"endTime":1072.19,"body":"contract. Plus, you can now get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.19,"endTime":1076.54,"body":"your first seven days of Inner"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.19,"endTime":1076.54,"body":"Circle for just one pound, get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1076.54,"endTime":1079.6,"body":"the behaviour answers and you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1076.54,"endTime":1079.6,"body":"been looking forward today with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1079.69,"endTime":1083.3799999999999,"body":"Inner Circle, visit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1079.69,"endTime":1083.3799999999999,"body":"beaconschoolsupport.co.uk and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1083.3799999999999,"endTime":1086.05,"body":"click on the inner circle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1083.3799999999999,"endTime":1086.05,"body":"picture near the top of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1086.05,"endTime":1087.82,"body":"homepage for more information."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1090.46,"endTime":1094.48,"body":"So I've got a child in my"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1090.46,"endTime":1094.48,"body":"classroom who's got PDA, and I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1094.48,"endTime":1098.11,"body":"can see that they're becoming"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1094.48,"endTime":1098.11,"body":"more anxious, I can see that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1098.11,"endTime":1101.4099999999999,"body":"placing another demand on them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1098.11,"endTime":1101.4099999999999,"body":"is going to create difficulties"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1101.4099999999999,"endTime":1104.35,"body":"for them. What should I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1101.4099999999999,"endTime":1104.35,"body":"absolutely avoid doing?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1104.35,"endTime":1107.26,"body":"Well, you should"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1104.35,"endTime":1107.26,"body":"absolutely avoid making the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1107.26,"endTime":1112.24,"body":"situation worse if you possibly"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1107.26,"endTime":1112.24,"body":"can. So come back to that point"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1112.24,"endTime":1115.75,"body":"that I made earlier about how"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1112.24,"endTime":1115.75,"body":"many simultaneously difficult"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1115.75,"endTime":1119.26,"body":"things are being asked of this"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1115.75,"endTime":1119.26,"body":"young person just now? And which"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1119.26,"endTime":1124.1799999999998,"body":"of those are essential for this"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1119.26,"endTime":1124.1799999999998,"body":"moment? And which of those can"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1124.1799999999998,"endTime":1129.28,"body":"we just get rid of? Which of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1124.1799999999998,"endTime":1129.28,"body":"those can we postpone? Which of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1129.28,"endTime":1134.26,"body":"those can we bin entirely? Which"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1129.28,"endTime":1134.26,"body":"of those can we just alter the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1134.29,"endTime":1138.9399999999998,"body":"emphasis of so if they're in a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1134.29,"endTime":1138.9399999999998,"body":"busy environment, and you think"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1138.9399999999998,"endTime":1143.29,"body":"that might be contributing at a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1138.9399999999998,"endTime":1143.29,"body":"sensory level. How do we quieten"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1143.29,"endTime":1146.56,"body":"and calm the broader environment"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1143.29,"endTime":1146.56,"body":"down? And that's not always"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1146.56,"endTime":1149.62,"body":"maybe by moving that child with"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1146.56,"endTime":1149.62,"body":"PDA, it might be in fact much"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1149.62,"endTime":1152.6499999999999,"body":"simpler to move everybody else."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1149.62,"endTime":1152.6499999999999,"body":"Because if you're asking the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1152.6499999999999,"endTime":1156.1599999999999,"body":"child with PDA, who's already"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1152.6499999999999,"endTime":1156.1599999999999,"body":"agitated to move, you're then"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1156.1599999999999,"endTime":1159.61,"body":"putting another demand in the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1156.1599999999999,"endTime":1159.61,"body":"pot. If you think of it like"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1159.6399999999999,"endTime":1163.06,"body":"some sort of a cat with nine"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1159.6399999999999,"endTime":1163.06,"body":"lives or something, and how many"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1163.06,"endTime":1166.48,"body":"do you want to use up in any"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1163.06,"endTime":1166.48,"body":"given day, you're making some"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1166.48,"endTime":1171.28,"body":"careful and considered decisions"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1166.48,"endTime":1171.28,"body":"about what matters most in that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1171.28,"endTime":1175.75,"body":"time. So essentially, what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1171.28,"endTime":1175.75,"body":"you're trying to do is reduce"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1175.75,"endTime":1180.37,"body":"the number of additional"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1175.75,"endTime":1180.37,"body":"agitators you put in place. Then"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1180.3999999999999,"endTime":1185.08,"body":"maybe consider what is going to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1180.3999999999999,"endTime":1185.08,"body":"work to soothe this young"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1185.08,"endTime":1189.55,"body":"person, what can I use in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1185.08,"endTime":1189.55,"body":"relation to my knowledge of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1189.55,"endTime":1193.36,"body":"them, my relationship with them,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1189.55,"endTime":1193.36,"body":"our shared interests, things"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1193.36,"endTime":1196.4199999999998,"body":"that we can have a laugh about"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1193.36,"endTime":1196.4199999999998,"body":"together, or I might just"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1196.4499999999998,"endTime":1199.3,"body":"totally change the subject and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1196.4499999999998,"endTime":1199.3,"body":"go or did you see that thing on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1199.3,"endTime":1203.08,"body":"telly last night and talk about"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1199.3,"endTime":1203.08,"body":"something that you know, might"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1203.08,"endTime":1208.4499999999998,"body":"engage them. So looking at"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1203.08,"endTime":1208.4499999999998,"body":"reducing agitating factors, and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1208.48,"endTime":1214.3899999999999,"body":"of calming things and of finding"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1208.48,"endTime":1214.3899999999999,"body":"a direction forwards. Now, that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1214.3899999999999,"endTime":1217.8999999999999,"body":"doesn't mean that you are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1214.3899999999999,"endTime":1217.8999999999999,"body":"abandoning the thing that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1217.9299999999998,"endTime":1220.24,"body":"they're struggling with or that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1217.9299999999998,"endTime":1220.24,"body":"you're struggling with because"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1220.24,"endTime":1223.24,"body":"you will really want them to do"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1220.24,"endTime":1223.24,"body":"it. It just means you're putting"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1223.24,"endTime":1227.62,"body":"it to one side, for now, to get"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1223.24,"endTime":1227.62,"body":"everybody back into a state of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1227.62,"endTime":1231.28,"body":"equilibrium. And from that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1227.62,"endTime":1231.28,"body":"point, you can plan forwards."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1231.34,"endTime":1233.32,"body":"You used the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1231.34,"endTime":1233.32,"body":"word earlier in the interview"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1233.35,"endTime":1236.1999999999998,"body":"flexible. And it sounds like"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1233.35,"endTime":1236.1999999999998,"body":"here, it's all about the adult"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1236.1999999999998,"endTime":1240.1299999999999,"body":"having a flexible mindset and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1236.1999999999998,"endTime":1240.1299999999999,"body":"more kind of shepherding a child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1240.1299999999999,"endTime":1243.37,"body":"towards a destination rather"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1240.1299999999999,"endTime":1243.37,"body":"than insisting on a fixed path,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1243.4599999999998,"endTime":1246.1299999999999,"body":"take the sheep in many different"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1243.4599999999998,"endTime":1246.1299999999999,"body":"directions and then respond to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1246.1299999999999,"endTime":1248.8,"body":"where the flock goes rather than"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1246.1299999999999,"endTime":1248.8,"body":"just having a straight road that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1248.8,"endTime":1250.3899999999999,"body":"you expect everyone to march"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1248.8,"endTime":1250.3899999999999,"body":"down."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1250.59,"endTime":1254.34,"body":"Yes, absolutely. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1250.59,"endTime":1254.34,"body":"that's a very nice analogy. It's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1254.34,"endTime":1258.6899999999998,"body":"sort of bearing in mind that the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1254.34,"endTime":1258.6899999999998,"body":"the quickest and the safest"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1258.6899999999998,"endTime":1263.04,"body":"route may actually be the scenic"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1258.6899999999998,"endTime":1263.04,"body":"route rather than the point A to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1263.04,"endTime":1267.81,"body":"B route. And by choosing the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1263.04,"endTime":1267.81,"body":"scenic route, you also have"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1267.84,"endTime":1271.8,"body":"other opportunities along the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1267.84,"endTime":1271.8,"body":"way. So bear in mind for people"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1271.8,"endTime":1276.03,"body":"working in schools, all of your"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1271.8,"endTime":1276.03,"body":"time with young people is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1276.03,"endTime":1280.29,"body":"accountable teaching time. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1276.03,"endTime":1280.29,"body":"you don't want to just give away"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1280.32,"endTime":1283.4399999999998,"body":"20 minutes falling out with a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1280.32,"endTime":1283.4399999999998,"body":"child about are they or aren't"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1283.4399999999998,"endTime":1286.5,"body":"they going to put their shoes on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1283.4399999999998,"endTime":1286.5,"body":"in the P.E. changing rooms."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1286.5,"endTime":1290.37,"body":"That's quite hard to justify"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1286.5,"endTime":1290.37,"body":"that as a good use of teaching"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1290.37,"endTime":1294.6299999999999,"body":"time, whereas if you to go back"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1290.37,"endTime":1294.6299999999999,"body":"to that previous analogy, if you"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1294.6299999999999,"endTime":1298.08,"body":"travel the scenic route, you can"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1294.6299999999999,"endTime":1298.08,"body":"continue to build your"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1298.08,"endTime":1301.23,"body":"relationship with that young"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1298.08,"endTime":1301.23,"body":"person, you can build a sense of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1301.23,"endTime":1304.62,"body":"trust and rapport with them. And"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1301.23,"endTime":1304.62,"body":"it's that trust and rapport that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1304.62,"endTime":1308.73,"body":"will support more cooperation on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1304.62,"endTime":1308.73,"body":"other occasions, and you might"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1308.73,"endTime":1312.33,"body":"be able to slip in some other"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1308.73,"endTime":1312.33,"body":"learning slightly under the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1312.33,"endTime":1317.28,"body":"radar, about emotional awareness"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1312.33,"endTime":1317.28,"body":"and about problem solving, and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1317.28,"endTime":1321.75,"body":"about managing feelings and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1317.28,"endTime":1321.75,"body":"about communication. And those"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1321.75,"endTime":1324.48,"body":"are really, really important"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1321.75,"endTime":1324.48,"body":"areas of learning and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1324.48,"endTime":1327.75,"body":"development for youngsters with"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1324.48,"endTime":1327.75,"body":"an autism spectrum condition."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1328.01,"endTime":1330.6799999999998,"body":"So given that,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1328.01,"endTime":1330.6799999999998,"body":"what do you think characterises"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1330.6799999999998,"endTime":1333.6499999999999,"body":"the sort of educational setting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1330.6799999999998,"endTime":1333.6499999999999,"body":"that's most likely to meet the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1333.6499999999999,"endTime":1335.03,"body":"needs of pupils with PDA?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1335.25,"endTime":1339.27,"body":"Well, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1335.25,"endTime":1339.27,"body":"very much about the ethos and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1339.27,"endTime":1343.62,"body":"the personality of that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1339.27,"endTime":1343.62,"body":"educational setting. It's not"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1343.62,"endTime":1347.61,"body":"about what it says in the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1343.62,"endTime":1347.61,"body":"brochure, or it's not about what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1347.6399999999999,"endTime":1353.4299999999998,"body":"designation of school it is, I"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1347.6399999999999,"endTime":1353.4299999999998,"body":"do consultation work across the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1353.4299999999998,"endTime":1357.03,"body":"United Kingdom, and I've seen"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1353.4299999999998,"endTime":1357.03,"body":"children have their needs"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1357.06,"endTime":1360.6899999999998,"body":"beautifully and dreadfully met"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1357.06,"endTime":1360.6899999999998,"body":"in every type of education"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1360.6899999999998,"endTime":1364.35,"body":"setting. So it's not about is it"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1360.6899999999998,"endTime":1364.35,"body":"a specialist school? Is it a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1364.35,"endTime":1367.35,"body":"mainstream school? Is it a rural"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1364.35,"endTime":1367.35,"body":"school? Is it an inner city"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1367.35,"endTime":1371.1299999999999,"body":"school, it's about the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1367.35,"endTime":1371.1299999999999,"body":"approaches that are used within"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1371.1299999999999,"endTime":1374.3999999999999,"body":"that school, and the people and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1371.1299999999999,"endTime":1374.3999999999999,"body":"the personalities in that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1374.3999999999999,"endTime":1378.7199999999998,"body":"school. And what works best in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1374.3999999999999,"endTime":1378.7199999999998,"body":"my experience for youngsters"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1378.75,"endTime":1383.1599999999999,"body":"with a PDA profile is to have,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1378.75,"endTime":1383.1599999999999,"body":"as you say, this flexible"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1383.1899999999998,"endTime":1388.62,"body":"approach to have a start point,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1383.1899999999998,"endTime":1388.62,"body":"which is about understanding,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1388.6499999999999,"endTime":1393.06,"body":"it's not about judging or"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1388.6499999999999,"endTime":1393.06,"body":"forcing, it's about let me get"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1393.06,"endTime":1397.6799999999998,"body":"to know you. Who are you and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1393.06,"endTime":1397.6799999999998,"body":"what works for you? And how do"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1397.6799999999998,"endTime":1402.36,"body":"we navigate your experience of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1397.6799999999998,"endTime":1402.36,"body":"education together. It's about"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1402.36,"endTime":1408.7199999999998,"body":"using a degree of structure. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1402.36,"endTime":1408.7199999999998,"body":"that it's you're not having too"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1408.7199999999998,"endTime":1412.59,"body":"much uncertainty, because that's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1408.7199999999998,"endTime":1412.59,"body":"anxiety provoking for everybody"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1412.59,"endTime":1415.98,"body":"staff, as well as the young"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1412.59,"endTime":1415.98,"body":"people but having a flexible"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1415.98,"endTime":1419.9399999999998,"body":"structure. So you have some sort"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1415.98,"endTime":1419.9399999999998,"body":"of scaffolding, if you like in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1419.9399999999998,"endTime":1423.3,"body":"place for a school day or for a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1419.9399999999998,"endTime":1423.3,"body":"lesson or for a playtime or"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1423.3,"endTime":1427.6799999999998,"body":"whatever, but you slip in lots"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1423.3,"endTime":1427.6799999999998,"body":"of choices within that. So you"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1427.6799999999998,"endTime":1432.06,"body":"might use a youngsters personal"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1427.6799999999998,"endTime":1432.06,"body":"interests, for instance, and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1432.09,"endTime":1435.54,"body":"they might be working on two or"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1432.09,"endTime":1435.54,"body":"three different projects at any"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1435.54,"endTime":1440.37,"body":"one time. On your timetable, it"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1435.54,"endTime":1440.37,"body":"might say it's a project lesson."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1440.4299999999998,"endTime":1443.6999999999998,"body":"So it's going to be in that room"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1440.4299999999998,"endTime":1443.6999999999998,"body":"with that member of staff,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1443.6999999999998,"endTime":1446.25,"body":"there's your structure, but what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1443.6999999999998,"endTime":1446.25,"body":"you might say to the young"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1446.25,"endTime":1449.76,"body":"person is which project you"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1446.25,"endTime":1449.76,"body":"fancy working on today. And"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1449.76,"endTime":1453.48,"body":"there's a genuine sense of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1449.76,"endTime":1453.48,"body":"alliance in that learning"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1453.35,"endTime":1458.06,"body":"So that sense of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1453.35,"endTime":1458.06,"body":"choice alleviates the anxieties"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1453.48,"endTime":1454.23,"body":"experience."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1458.09,"endTime":1458.9299999999998,"body":"that they're experiencing?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1459.08,"endTime":1462.6799999999998,"body":"Yes. However,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1459.08,"endTime":1462.6799999999998,"body":"having said that, it's really"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1462.6799999999998,"endTime":1467.1499999999999,"body":"important that you don't flood a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1462.6799999999998,"endTime":1467.1499999999999,"body":"child with choice, because for a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1467.1499999999999,"endTime":1471.4099999999999,"body":"lot of youngsters with autism,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1467.1499999999999,"endTime":1471.4099999999999,"body":"and those with a PDA profile,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1471.4399999999998,"endTime":1476.27,"body":"having too much choice and too"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1471.4399999999998,"endTime":1476.27,"body":"open ended choices can be"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1476.27,"endTime":1480.08,"body":"anxiety provoking as well. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1476.27,"endTime":1480.08,"body":"you might be in charge of what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1480.08,"endTime":1483.5,"body":"the choices are. And there might"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1480.08,"endTime":1483.5,"body":"just be three choices. They're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1483.5,"endTime":1485.3,"body":"not going to be 33 choices,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1485.33,"endTime":1487.1,"body":"What would you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1485.33,"endTime":1487.1,"body":"say to a teacher who is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1487.1,"endTime":1490.01,"body":"listening to this saying, Nah!"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1487.1,"endTime":1490.01,"body":"PDA isn't real?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1489.35,"endTime":1493.76,"body":"Well, I would be"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1489.35,"endTime":1493.76,"body":"interested in asking them why"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1493.76,"endTime":1498.1999999999998,"body":"they think it's not real. On"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1493.76,"endTime":1498.1999999999998,"body":"what basis? Do they think that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1498.1999999999998,"endTime":1502.9699999999998,"body":"is a truth, I would also be"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1498.1999999999998,"endTime":1502.9699999999998,"body":"querying with them, how else"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1502.9699999999998,"endTime":1507.59,"body":"might one explain what we see"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1502.9699999999998,"endTime":1507.59,"body":"before our eyes and what we know"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1507.62,"endTime":1511.73,"body":"of the profile of these"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1507.62,"endTime":1511.73,"body":"children. And the benefits of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1511.76,"endTime":1516.08,"body":"viewing things as a PDA profile."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1511.76,"endTime":1516.08,"body":"What we often see in schools is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1516.08,"endTime":1520.85,"body":"some children have like a buffet"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1516.08,"endTime":1520.85,"body":"of different diagnostic"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1520.8799999999999,"endTime":1524.81,"body":"descriptions. And for some"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1520.8799999999999,"endTime":1524.81,"body":"youngsters, yes, they do have"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1524.84,"endTime":1528.1699999999998,"body":"overlapping an interlocking"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1524.84,"endTime":1528.1699999999998,"body":"condition. So that is perfectly"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1528.1699999999998,"endTime":1531.98,"body":"valid in those instances. But"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1528.1699999999998,"endTime":1531.98,"body":"for others, rather than having"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1531.98,"endTime":1536.48,"body":"this long list of things, there"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1531.98,"endTime":1536.48,"body":"might be a way of drawing those"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1536.48,"endTime":1540.86,"body":"features together and going are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1536.48,"endTime":1540.86,"body":"because of X, Y and Z, the best"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1540.86,"endTime":1545.06,"body":"way of understanding that is to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1540.86,"endTime":1545.06,"body":"view it through the lens of a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1545.06,"endTime":1549.98,"body":"PDA profile. And the benefit of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1545.06,"endTime":1549.98,"body":"that is that leads me to these"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1550.01,"endTime":1551.6299999999999,"body":"specific strategies."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1551.7099999999998,"endTime":1553.81,"body":"If you're a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1551.7099999999998,"endTime":1553.81,"body":"teacher or a parent listening to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1553.81,"endTime":1557.23,"body":"this podcast, what's the first"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1553.81,"endTime":1557.23,"body":"step you can take to learn more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1557.23,"endTime":1558.01,"body":"about PDA?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1557.35,"endTime":1558.61,"body":"I can't recommend"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1557.35,"endTime":1558.61,"body":"strongly enough the PDA society"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1558.85,"endTime":1568.9299999999998,"body":"so I would recommend looking at"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1558.85,"endTime":1568.9299999999998,"body":"the PDA society website. There"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1568.9299999999998,"endTime":1574.27,"body":"is a wealth of free downloadable"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1568.9299999999998,"endTime":1574.27,"body":"resources on there. And there"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1574.27,"endTime":1577.9299999999998,"body":"are also the Jessica Kingsley"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1574.27,"endTime":1577.9299999999998,"body":"publications on PDA. And"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1577.9299999999998,"endTime":1581.6499999999999,"body":"fortunately, that's growing all"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1577.9299999999998,"endTime":1581.6499999999999,"body":"the time and there are a couple"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1581.6499999999999,"endTime":1586.24,"body":"of us as jkp authors who have"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1581.6499999999999,"endTime":1586.24,"body":"used our time in lockdown to add"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1586.24,"endTime":1589.6,"body":"to that publication. In this"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1586.24,"endTime":1589.6,"body":"list, so there are more coming,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1589.6299999999999,"endTime":1593.8,"body":"I think I would also encourage"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1589.6299999999999,"endTime":1593.8,"body":"them to talk to colleagues who"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1593.8,"endTime":1598.51,"body":"have an understanding of PDA to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1593.8,"endTime":1598.51,"body":"really help share their"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1598.51,"endTime":1602.83,"body":"experiences. And I think"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1598.51,"endTime":1602.83,"body":"particularly for professionals,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1602.83,"endTime":1606.85,"body":"I would strongly encourage them"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1602.83,"endTime":1606.85,"body":"to listen to the families, often"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1606.85,"endTime":1611.1399999999999,"body":"children with PDA might present"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1606.85,"endTime":1611.1399999999999,"body":"very differently at home to how"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1611.1399999999999,"endTime":1615.52,"body":"they present at school. And it's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1611.1399999999999,"endTime":1615.52,"body":"really important to listen to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1615.52,"endTime":1619.84,"body":"both sides of that story. So for"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1615.52,"endTime":1619.84,"body":"parents to listen to how they're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1619.84,"endTime":1623.1399999999999,"body":"presenting at school, and vice"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1619.84,"endTime":1623.1399999999999,"body":"versa, and particularly for"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1623.1399999999999,"endTime":1626.26,"body":"education professionals not to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1623.1399999999999,"endTime":1626.26,"body":"go, oh,  they're not like that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1626.26,"endTime":1630.1899999999998,"body":"when they're with me, because"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1626.26,"endTime":1630.1899999999998,"body":"that is closing our eyes and our"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1630.1899999999998,"endTime":1634.48,"body":"ears to a holistic understanding"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1630.1899999999998,"endTime":1634.48,"body":"of these youngsters. And it's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1634.48,"endTime":1638.59,"body":"not unusual for a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1634.48,"endTime":1638.59,"body":"children and young people to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1638.62,"endTime":1642.9399999999998,"body":"hold it together for a specific"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1638.62,"endTime":1642.9399999999998,"body":"period of time whilst they're at"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1642.9399999999998,"endTime":1646.87,"body":"school. And then it all spills"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1642.9399999999998,"endTime":1646.87,"body":"out at home. So we need to know"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1646.87,"endTime":1649.87,"body":"what we're seeing where we're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1646.87,"endTime":1649.87,"body":"seeing it and why we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1649.87,"endTime":1653.59,"body":"it. It just keeps coming back"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1649.87,"endTime":1653.59,"body":"time and again, to that core"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1653.59,"endTime":1656.32,"body":"principle of understand the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1653.59,"endTime":1656.32,"body":"individual."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1656.74,"endTime":1659.32,"body":"Finally, we ask"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1656.74,"endTime":1659.32,"body":"this of all our guests, who's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1659.32,"endTime":1662.6499999999999,"body":"the key figure that's influenced"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1659.32,"endTime":1662.6499999999999,"body":"you that's had the biggest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1662.6499999999999,"endTime":1665.08,"body":"impact on your approach to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1662.6499999999999,"endTime":1665.08,"body":"working with kids,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1665.55,"endTime":1668.61,"body":"I think I can"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1665.55,"endTime":1668.61,"body":"choose three people. The first"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1668.61,"endTime":1672.33,"body":"person I'm going to choose is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1668.61,"endTime":1672.33,"body":"Phil Christie, who is a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1672.36,"endTime":1677.37,"body":"colleague and a friend who I've"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1672.36,"endTime":1677.37,"body":"known for over 25 years now. And"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1677.3999999999999,"endTime":1682.53,"body":"his role and influence in the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1677.3999999999999,"endTime":1682.53,"body":"world of PDA and helping us all"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1682.56,"endTime":1686.58,"body":"understand that has been"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1682.56,"endTime":1686.58,"body":"incredibly significant for me."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1686.73,"endTime":1691.56,"body":"And at a more personal level."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1686.73,"endTime":1691.56,"body":"His encouragement, and his"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1691.56,"endTime":1695.07,"body":"kindness, along with his"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1691.56,"endTime":1695.07,"body":"knowledge has really supported"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1695.07,"endTime":1698.9699999999998,"body":"my understanding and my career,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1695.07,"endTime":1698.9699999999998,"body":"I'm going to add on Judy Gould,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1699.27,"endTime":1705.1799999999998,"body":"and Judy Eaton who have both"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1699.27,"endTime":1705.1799999999998,"body":"been real forces in the field."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1705.2099999999998,"endTime":1709.74,"body":"But not only are they very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1705.2099999999998,"endTime":1709.74,"body":"knowledgeable and respectful of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1709.77,"endTime":1714.1499999999999,"body":"colleagues and supportive of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1709.77,"endTime":1714.1499999999999,"body":"other families, they are just"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1714.1499999999999,"endTime":1719.58,"body":"really some of the world's most"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1714.1499999999999,"endTime":1719.58,"body":"lovely individuals who approach"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1719.61,"endTime":1724.59,"body":"supporting young people with"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1719.61,"endTime":1724.59,"body":"autism with grace and kindness."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1725.1999999999998,"endTime":1727.3,"body":"Ruth, thank you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1725.1999999999998,"endTime":1727.3,"body":"for being on the podcast today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1727.33,"endTime":1729.9399999999998,"body":"I've learned a lot and I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1727.33,"endTime":1729.9399999999998,"body":"our listeners have to thank you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1729.9399999999998,"endTime":1730.4199999999998,"body":"very much."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":1730.4499999999998,"endTime":1731.08,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1731.61,"endTime":1735.27,"body":"How interesting"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1731.61,"endTime":1735.27,"body":"Ruth is just so knowledgeable"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1735.3,"endTime":1739.77,"body":"about PDA and gave us so many"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1735.3,"endTime":1739.77,"body":"strategies and ideas, I should"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1739.77,"endTime":1742.77,"body":"say as well that Ruth has two"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1739.77,"endTime":1742.77,"body":"brilliant books that you can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1742.77,"endTime":1746.3999999999999,"body":"check out if you've enjoyed this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1742.77,"endTime":1746.3999999999999,"body":"interview. They're very clear,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1746.4299999999998,"endTime":1751.08,"body":"very simple introductions to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1746.4299999999998,"endTime":1751.08,"body":"PDA. One is called Understanding"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1751.08,"endTime":1755.2199999999998,"body":"pathological demand avoidance"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1751.08,"endTime":1755.2199999999998,"body":"syndrome in children. And the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1755.2199999999998,"endTime":1757.9499999999998,"body":"other is Collaborative"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1755.2199999999998,"endTime":1757.9499999999998,"body":"approaches to learning for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1757.9499999999998,"endTime":1762.7199999999998,"body":"pupils with PDA -strategies for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1757.9499999999998,"endTime":1762.7199999999998,"body":"education professionals. I'll"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1762.7199999999998,"endTime":1765.84,"body":"drop the links to those in the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1762.7199999999998,"endTime":1765.84,"body":"episode description. And Ruth's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1765.87,"endTime":1770.61,"body":"also got a new book coming out"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1765.87,"endTime":1770.61,"body":"in August called Being Julia."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1771.06,"endTime":1773.52,"body":"If you work with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1771.06,"endTime":1773.52,"body":"kids with challenging behavior,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1773.58,"endTime":1776.1599999999999,"body":"and you want to understand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1773.58,"endTime":1776.1599999999999,"body":"possibly why they're acting the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1776.1599999999999,"endTime":1779.82,"body":"way they are, we've got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1776.1599999999999,"endTime":1779.82,"body":"download that can help. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1779.82,"endTime":1783.1499999999999,"body":"called the SEN Handbook, and it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1779.82,"endTime":1783.1499999999999,"body":"will help you link behaviors you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1783.1499999999999,"endTime":1786.3899999999999,"body":"see in the classroom with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1783.1499999999999,"endTime":1786.3899999999999,"body":"possible causes like autism or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1786.4199999999998,"endTime":1790.53,"body":"ADHD. The idea here isn't for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1786.4199999999998,"endTime":1790.53,"body":"teachers to make a diagnosis."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1790.56,"endTime":1794.28,"body":"We're not qualified to do that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1790.56,"endTime":1794.28,"body":"But if we can link behaviors to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1794.28,"endTime":1798.4499999999998,"body":"possible causes quickly, it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1794.28,"endTime":1798.4499999999998,"body":"means we can get the right help"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1798.4499999999998,"endTime":1801.2099999999998,"body":"and get early intervention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1798.4499999999998,"endTime":1801.2099999999998,"body":"strategies in place for our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1801.2099999999998,"endTime":1805.29,"body":"students. It's completely free"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1801.2099999999998,"endTime":1805.29,"body":"to download, go to our website"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1805.32,"endTime":1809.6699999999998,"body":"beaconschoolsupport.co.uk  Click"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1805.32,"endTime":1809.6699999999998,"body":"on the free resources section"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1809.6699999999998,"endTime":1813.3,"body":"near the top. And I'll also put"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1809.6699999999998,"endTime":1813.3,"body":"a direct link to the handbook in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1813.3,"endTime":1814.6499999999999,"body":"the episode description."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1814.7199999999998,"endTime":1816.6699999999998,"body":"Next week,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1814.7199999999998,"endTime":1816.6699999999998,"body":"we're going to look at the top"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1816.6699999999998,"endTime":1820.75,"body":"five classroom management skills"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1816.6699999999998,"endTime":1820.75,"body":"every teacher should possess and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1820.75,"endTime":1824.02,"body":"perfect. So if you're having"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1820.75,"endTime":1824.02,"body":"difficulties with whole class"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1824.02,"endTime":1827.1399999999999,"body":"behavior, this episode will be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1824.02,"endTime":1827.1399999999999,"body":"perfect for you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1827.25,"endTime":1829.9499999999998,"body":"And to make sure"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1827.25,"endTime":1829.9499999999998,"body":"you find out what those top five"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1829.9499999999998,"endTime":1833.61,"body":"skills are. Open your podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1829.9499999999998,"endTime":1833.61,"body":"app now. And then don't just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1833.61,"endTime":1836.31,"body":"smile lovingly at the subscribe"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1833.61,"endTime":1836.31,"body":"button. That won't make any"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1836.31,"endTime":1839.1,"body":"difference. It's just glass and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1836.31,"endTime":1839.1,"body":"metal, you'll actually have to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1839.1,"endTime":1842.58,"body":"tap it. And then your podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1839.1,"endTime":1842.58,"body":"app will automatically download"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1842.6399999999999,"endTime":1846.57,"body":"each and every episode of school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1842.6399999999999,"endTime":1846.57,"body":"behavior secrets so you never"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1846.57,"endTime":1847.1999999999998,"body":"miss a thing."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1847.35,"endTime":1850.6799999999998,"body":"And finally, if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1847.35,"endTime":1850.6799999999998,"body":"you find today's episode useful,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1850.6799999999998,"endTime":1855.12,"body":"please leave us an honest rating"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1850.6799999999998,"endTime":1855.12,"body":"and review on Apple podcasts."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1855.3,"endTime":1858.6599999999999,"body":"This makes a huge difference"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1855.3,"endTime":1858.6599999999999,"body":"because when you rate and review"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1858.6599999999999,"endTime":1862.02,"body":"us it makes it more likely that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1858.6599999999999,"endTime":1862.02,"body":"school behavior secrets will be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1862.02,"endTime":1865.74,"body":"recommended to other listeners,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1862.02,"endTime":1865.74,"body":"and then other teachers and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1865.74,"endTime":1868.8899999999999,"body":"school leaders can find the show"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1865.74,"endTime":1868.8899999999999,"body":"and start getting the help they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1868.8899999999999,"endTime":1871.83,"body":"need to support the children in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1868.8899999999999,"endTime":1871.83,"body":"their classrooms."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1871.8899999999999,"endTime":1873.6,"body":"Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1871.8899999999999,"endTime":1873.6,"body":"joining us today. Have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1873.6,"endTime":1876.78,"body":"brilliant week. And we'll see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1873.6,"endTime":1876.78,"body":"you on the next episode of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1876.78,"endTime":1878.6699999999998,"body":"school behaviour secrets. Bye"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1876.78,"endTime":1878.6699999999998,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1878.7389999999998,"endTime":1879.369,"body":"Bye now."}]}