{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":90.44,"body":"So if your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":90.44,"body":"school uses exactly the same"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":90.44,"endTime":93.58999999999999,"body":"reward system from beginning to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":90.44,"endTime":93.58999999999999,"body":"end from year one to year six,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":93.61999999999999,"endTime":97.36999999999999,"body":"it's no wonder it becomes less"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":93.61999999999999,"endTime":97.36999999999999,"body":"effective as kids get older. In"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.36999999999999,"endTime":100.91,"body":"fact, if you in your classroom,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.36999999999999,"endTime":100.91,"body":"they're using the same reward"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":100.91,"endTime":104.41999999999999,"body":"system from September to July,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":100.91,"endTime":104.41999999999999,"body":"that system is going to get old."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":104.41999999999999,"endTime":107.63,"body":"It's no wonder that the kids are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":104.41999999999999,"endTime":107.63,"body":"going to get used to your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.63,"endTime":110.6,"body":"behaviour system, and it's going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.63,"endTime":110.6,"body":"to lose its impact."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":110.81,"endTime":114.91999999999999,"body":"Welcome to the school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":110.81,"endTime":114.91999999999999,"body":"secrets podcast. I'm your host"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.91999999999999,"endTime":117.94999999999999,"body":"Simon Currigan. My co host is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.91999999999999,"endTime":117.94999999999999,"body":"Emma Shackleton and were,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":118.00999999999999,"endTime":121.63999999999999,"body":"obsessed with helping teachers,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":118.00999999999999,"endTime":121.63999999999999,"body":"school leaders, parents and of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":121.63999999999999,"endTime":124.85,"body":"course students when classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":121.63999999999999,"endTime":124.85,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.85,"endTime":127.75999999999999,"body":"success. We're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.85,"endTime":127.75999999999999,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.75999999999999,"endTime":130.85,"body":"classroom management behavioural"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.75999999999999,"endTime":130.85,"body":"special needs, whole school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":130.85,"endTime":134.24,"body":"strategy and more all with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":130.85,"endTime":134.24,"body":"aim of helping your students"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.24,"endTime":137.54,"body":"reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.24,"endTime":137.54,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.57,"endTime":141.29,"body":"eavesdrop on our conversations"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.57,"endTime":141.29,"body":"with thought leaders from around"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.29,"endTime":144.29,"body":"the world. So you'll get to hear"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.29,"endTime":144.29,"body":"the latest evidence based"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.29,"endTime":148.51999999999998,"body":"strategies before anyone else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.29,"endTime":148.51999999999998,"body":"This is the school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.51999999999998,"endTime":153.29,"body":"secrets podcast. Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.51999999999998,"endTime":153.29,"body":"school behaviour secrets, please"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":153.29,"endTime":155.48,"body":"be quiet on the way into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":153.29,"endTime":155.48,"body":"behaviour towers. The neighbour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":155.48,"endTime":158.75,"body":"had a party last night and it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":155.48,"endTime":158.75,"body":"was impossible to get any sleep."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.14,"endTime":161.78,"body":"My name is Simon Currigan. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.14,"endTime":161.78,"body":"I'm here with my co host, Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":161.78,"endTime":162.95,"body":"Shackleton. Hi, Emma."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":163.04,"endTime":163.91,"body":"Hi there,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":164.0,"endTime":166.19,"body":"Emma. In today's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":164.0,"endTime":166.19,"body":"episode, we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":166.19,"endTime":170.89999999999998,"body":"talking about motivation. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":166.19,"endTime":170.89999999999998,"body":"have you ever had a time when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.89999999999998,"endTime":174.58999999999997,"body":"you found yourself really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.89999999999998,"endTime":174.58999999999997,"body":"motivated by something only to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":174.58999999999997,"endTime":176.0,"body":"lose interest?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":176.03,"endTime":178.22,"body":"Well, I have to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":176.03,"endTime":178.22,"body":"say that this happens to me"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":178.22,"endTime":182.51,"body":"quite a lot. I'm one of those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":178.22,"endTime":182.51,"body":"people who love the ideas part"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":182.51,"endTime":186.41,"body":"of a project and I love the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":182.51,"endTime":186.41,"body":"planning. I find it quite easy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.41,"endTime":189.70999999999998,"body":"to get going on a new project"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.41,"endTime":189.70999999999998,"body":"and I'm quite high energy at the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":189.70999999999998,"endTime":194.26999999999998,"body":"start. But for me the problems"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":189.70999999999998,"endTime":194.26999999999998,"body":"come later. So once I've started"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":194.26999999999998,"endTime":197.66,"body":"something new and been doing it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":194.26999999999998,"endTime":197.66,"body":"for a while, I tend to get bored"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":197.66,"endTime":201.32,"body":"and then have big trouble"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":197.66,"endTime":201.32,"body":"finishing things. I'm always"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":201.32,"endTime":205.19,"body":"wanting to get started on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":201.32,"endTime":205.19,"body":"something new and move on to the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":205.19,"endTime":207.89,"body":"new shiny object or shiny idea."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":208.19,"endTime":211.22,"body":"Shiny object"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":208.19,"endTime":211.22,"body":"syndrome? Well today we're going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.22,"endTime":214.67,"body":"to talk about how giving rewards"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.22,"endTime":214.67,"body":"to motivate children can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":214.67,"endTime":218.45,"body":"sometimes have the opposite"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":214.67,"endTime":218.45,"body":"effect. And we actually"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":218.45,"endTime":222.95,"body":"demotivate them over time and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":218.45,"endTime":222.95,"body":"why this isn't my opinion, why"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.95,"endTime":225.29,"body":"it's a scientific certainty"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":225.35,"endTime":227.69,"body":"Sounds"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":225.35,"endTime":227.69,"body":"controversial. But before we get"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":227.69,"endTime":230.84,"body":"into the detail, I've got a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":227.69,"endTime":230.84,"body":"favour to ask if you enjoy the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":230.84,"endTime":234.62,"body":"show today. Please remember to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":230.84,"endTime":234.62,"body":"give us a rating and review on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":234.65,"endTime":238.54999999999998,"body":"Apple podcasts. This will help"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":234.65,"endTime":238.54999999999998,"body":"your fellow teachers and school"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":238.54999999999998,"endTime":242.21,"body":"leaders, because every review"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":238.54999999999998,"endTime":242.21,"body":"tells Apple to recommend the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":242.21,"endTime":246.07999999999998,"body":"podcast to all the listeners. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":242.21,"endTime":246.07999999999998,"body":"they find the show more easily"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":246.23,"endTime":249.2,"body":"and start getting the help they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":246.23,"endTime":249.2,"body":"need to support the children in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":249.2,"endTime":250.25,"body":"their classrooms."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":250.67,"endTime":253.22,"body":"Okay, then let's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":250.67,"endTime":253.22,"body":"head to the drive thru, speak to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.22,"endTime":256.58,"body":"the nice amount of the window"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.22,"endTime":256.58,"body":"and order ourselves that greasy"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":256.58,"endTime":259.01,"body":"bucket of chicken we call"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":256.58,"endTime":259.01,"body":"behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":259.22,"endTime":261.56,"body":"To start us"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":259.22,"endTime":261.56,"body":"off, then we need to talk about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":261.56,"endTime":265.85,"body":"their two forms of motivation."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":261.56,"endTime":265.85,"body":"Firstly, we've got extrinsic"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":265.85,"endTime":271.01,"body":"rewards. extrinsic rewards are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":265.85,"endTime":271.01,"body":"stuff that is done to us or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":271.01,"endTime":275.33,"body":"given to us externally, to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":271.01,"endTime":275.33,"body":"encourage us to behave in a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":275.33,"endTime":276.35,"body":"certain way."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":276.35,"endTime":279.14,"body":"And then we have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":276.35,"endTime":279.14,"body":"intrinsic rewards. And that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":279.14,"endTime":282.53,"body":"the motivation that comes from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":279.14,"endTime":282.53,"body":"the inside to do something and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.53,"endTime":287.63,"body":"that comes from our desires our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.53,"endTime":287.63,"body":"identity values. It's the reason"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.63,"endTime":290.81,"body":"why someone picks up a guitar"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.63,"endTime":290.81,"body":"because they have an internal"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":290.81,"endTime":293.96000000000004,"body":"desire to learn to play it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":290.81,"endTime":293.96000000000004,"body":"Today, we're going to look at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":293.96000000000004,"endTime":298.1,"body":"how extrinsic rewards can have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":293.96000000000004,"endTime":298.1,"body":"the opposite effect to the one"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":298.13,"endTime":301.97,"body":"we intend how they can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":298.13,"endTime":301.97,"body":"demotivate or crush the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":301.97,"endTime":303.32,"body":"intrinsic desire to do the right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":301.97,"endTime":303.32,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":303.38,"endTime":305.96000000000004,"body":"And we're going"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":303.38,"endTime":305.96000000000004,"body":"to start by looking at something"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":305.96000000000004,"endTime":310.49,"body":"called feedback loops, which are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":305.96000000000004,"endTime":310.49,"body":"integral to how rewards work."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":310.61,"endTime":313.28,"body":"Human beings are more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":310.61,"endTime":313.28,"body":"complicated than what we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":313.28,"endTime":317.15,"body":"about to describe. But we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":313.28,"endTime":317.15,"body":"going to use a simple model so"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":317.15,"endTime":320.41999999999996,"body":"that we can communicate the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":317.15,"endTime":320.41999999999996,"body":"ideas behind the psychology."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":320.96000000000004,"endTime":324.77,"body":"When we use rewards. We're using"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":320.96000000000004,"endTime":324.77,"body":"something called operant"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":324.77,"endTime":328.13,"body":"conditioning. And this was"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":324.77,"endTime":328.13,"body":"developed by BF Skinner from the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":328.13,"endTime":330.14,"body":"1940s onwards."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":330.25,"endTime":333.19,"body":"So very simply,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":330.25,"endTime":333.19,"body":"the process goes like this. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":333.19,"endTime":337.21000000000004,"body":"we've got a rat in a box. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":333.19,"endTime":337.21000000000004,"body":"inside the box, there is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":337.21000000000004,"endTime":341.2,"body":"lever, and BF Skinner was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":337.21000000000004,"endTime":341.2,"body":"interested to find out if the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.2,"endTime":344.91999999999996,"body":"rat could learn that when it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.2,"endTime":344.91999999999996,"body":"presses lever, a little reward"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":344.91999999999996,"endTime":348.03999999999996,"body":"drops out of a feeding tube to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":344.91999999999996,"endTime":348.03999999999996,"body":"encourage the rat to press the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.03999999999996,"endTime":351.70000000000005,"body":"lever again. And that did indeed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.03999999999996,"endTime":351.70000000000005,"body":"happen. The rat learned to press"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":351.70000000000005,"endTime":354.97,"body":"the lever when it was hungry to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":351.70000000000005,"endTime":354.97,"body":"get a reward. And what happens"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":355.0,"endTime":358.80999999999995,"body":"at the chemical level is when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":355.0,"endTime":358.80999999999995,"body":"the rat presses a lever and that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":358.80999999999995,"endTime":361.72,"body":"little bit of food comes down"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":358.80999999999995,"endTime":361.72,"body":"the feeding tube. In the rat's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":361.72,"endTime":365.65,"body":"brain a chemical called dopamine"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":361.72,"endTime":365.65,"body":"is released. Now the job of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":365.65,"endTime":369.37,"body":"dopamine is to say, well that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":365.65,"endTime":369.37,"body":"was interesting. Pay attention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":369.37,"endTime":373.03,"body":"to what happened you press the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":369.37,"endTime":373.03,"body":"lever and you got a reward. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":373.03,"endTime":376.03,"body":"that forms the feedback loop."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":373.03,"endTime":376.03,"body":"There is a trigger the rats in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":376.03,"endTime":379.68999999999994,"body":"the box and it's feeling hungry."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":376.03,"endTime":379.68999999999994,"body":"It sees the lever engages in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":379.68999999999994,"endTime":383.08000000000004,"body":"behaviour which is pressing the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":379.68999999999994,"endTime":383.08000000000004,"body":"lever and a reward comes down"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":383.23,"endTime":386.59000000000003,"body":"which gives the rat a hit of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":383.23,"endTime":386.59000000000003,"body":"dopamine and our brains are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":386.59000000000003,"endTime":389.91999999999996,"body":"wired exactly the same way. When"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":386.59000000000003,"endTime":389.91999999999996,"body":"we engage in behaviours, if we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":389.91999999999996,"endTime":393.4,"body":"get some form of reward, we get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":389.91999999999996,"endTime":393.4,"body":"a hit of dopamine as well, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":393.4,"endTime":396.42999999999995,"body":"little chemical messenger that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":393.4,"endTime":396.42999999999995,"body":"says that was interesting. Pay"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":396.42999999999995,"endTime":399.78999999999996,"body":"attention to it. Now what that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":396.42999999999995,"endTime":399.78999999999996,"body":"dopamine will do is when we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.78999999999996,"endTime":403.29999999999995,"body":"in that situation next time,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.78999999999996,"endTime":403.29999999999995,"body":"we've started to form a link"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":403.29999999999995,"endTime":406.51,"body":"between the behaviour and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":403.29999999999995,"endTime":406.51,"body":"reward, so it makes it more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":406.51,"endTime":410.11,"body":"likely that we're going to use"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":406.51,"endTime":410.11,"body":"that behaviour again, or engage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":410.11,"endTime":411.25,"body":"in that behaviour again,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":411.28,"endTime":413.91999999999996,"body":"Now the length"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":411.28,"endTime":413.91999999999996,"body":"of the feedback loop is really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":413.91999999999996,"endTime":417.93999999999994,"body":"important here, the shorter the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":413.91999999999996,"endTime":417.93999999999994,"body":"loop, the more likely your brain"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":417.93999999999994,"endTime":422.20000000000005,"body":"is to connect the action with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":417.93999999999994,"endTime":422.20000000000005,"body":"the reward. Short feedback loops"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":422.20000000000005,"endTime":425.74,"body":"mean that the action is quickly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":422.20000000000005,"endTime":425.74,"body":"followed up by the reward, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":425.74,"endTime":429.78999999999996,"body":"therefore likely to link the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":425.74,"endTime":429.78999999999996,"body":"action together with the reward."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":430.33000000000004,"endTime":434.5,"body":"Longer feedback loops mean that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":430.33000000000004,"endTime":434.5,"body":"we might receive a reward. But"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":434.5,"endTime":438.34000000000003,"body":"because time has passed since"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":434.5,"endTime":438.34000000000003,"body":"the action, we don't always link"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":438.34000000000003,"endTime":441.58000000000004,"body":"the action and the reward"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":438.34000000000003,"endTime":441.58000000000004,"body":"directly together. So for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":441.58000000000004,"endTime":445.45000000000005,"body":"example, a child receiving a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":441.58000000000004,"endTime":445.45000000000005,"body":"sticker at the end of the day"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":445.45000000000005,"endTime":449.43999999999994,"body":"for good sitting that they did"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":445.45000000000005,"endTime":449.43999999999994,"body":"in assembly this morning, might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":449.43999999999994,"endTime":453.58000000000004,"body":"be too long a feedback loop for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":449.43999999999994,"endTime":453.58000000000004,"body":"the child to associate the good"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":453.58000000000004,"endTime":456.70000000000005,"body":"sitting with getting the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":453.58000000000004,"endTime":456.70000000000005,"body":"sticker. I'm sure we've all been"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":456.70000000000005,"endTime":460.27,"body":"in a situation where we've asked"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":456.70000000000005,"endTime":460.27,"body":"a child, whether it's our own or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":460.27,"endTime":463.84000000000003,"body":"a child in our class, what did"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":460.27,"endTime":463.84000000000003,"body":"you get that sticker for? And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":463.84000000000003,"endTime":467.04999999999995,"body":"actually, they don't know or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":463.84000000000003,"endTime":467.04999999999995,"body":"they can't remember. And that's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":467.04999999999995,"endTime":471.82000000000005,"body":"usually indicative of a feedback"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":467.04999999999995,"endTime":471.82000000000005,"body":"loop, which is too long, the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":471.82000000000005,"endTime":475.80999999999995,"body":"reward has come too long after"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":471.82000000000005,"endTime":475.80999999999995,"body":"the action, and so the two are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":475.80999999999995,"endTime":478.15,"body":"not now linked together in the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":475.80999999999995,"endTime":478.15,"body":"child's brain."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":478.22,"endTime":481.18999999999994,"body":"So whether it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":478.22,"endTime":481.18999999999994,"body":"a rat or a human, the feedback,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":481.18999999999994,"endTime":484.85,"body":"the reward has to be within"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":481.18999999999994,"endTime":484.85,"body":"seconds, or certainly in humans"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":484.85,"endTime":488.6,"body":"a short number of minutes to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":484.85,"endTime":488.6,"body":"have any real impact. If our rat"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":488.6,"endTime":491.78,"body":"presses the lever, and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":488.6,"endTime":491.78,"body":"reward drops down half a second"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":491.78,"endTime":495.14,"body":"later, it's easy for the rat to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":491.78,"endTime":495.14,"body":"associate pressing the lever"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":495.14,"endTime":498.38,"body":"with getting the food if the rat"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":495.14,"endTime":498.38,"body":"presses the lever, and five"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":498.38,"endTime":501.59000000000003,"body":"hours later food is released,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":498.38,"endTime":501.59000000000003,"body":"then the rat is going to find it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":501.59000000000003,"endTime":506.17999999999995,"body":"much more difficult to associate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":501.59000000000003,"endTime":506.17999999999995,"body":"A with B. So this effect wanes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":506.21000000000004,"endTime":509.75,"body":"over time, and your brain"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":506.21000000000004,"endTime":509.75,"body":"doesn't link these two ideas in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":509.75,"endTime":512.66,"body":"any meaningful way. And that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":509.75,"endTime":512.66,"body":"means if our child gets a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":512.66,"endTime":515.33,"body":"sticker at the end of the data"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":512.66,"endTime":515.33,"body":"sitting well in assembly, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":515.33,"endTime":519.35,"body":"they don't really link the two"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":515.33,"endTime":519.35,"body":"ideas, when not encouraging that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":519.35,"endTime":520.4,"body":"behaviour in the future."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":520.55,"endTime":524.99,"body":"These ideas do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":520.55,"endTime":524.99,"body":"apply to humans. So in 1949,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":524.99,"endTime":527.54,"body":"there was a documented"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":524.99,"endTime":527.54,"body":"experiment on a boy with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":527.54,"endTime":532.43,"body":"profound disabilities, he could"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":527.54,"endTime":532.43,"body":"only lie on his back and not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":532.43,"endTime":536.18,"body":"roll over. Every time the boy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":532.43,"endTime":536.18,"body":"moved his right arm, the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":536.18,"endTime":540.32,"body":"researcher injected a warm sugar"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":536.18,"endTime":540.32,"body":"milk solution into the boy's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":540.32,"endTime":544.58,"body":"mouth. Interestingly, within"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":540.32,"endTime":544.58,"body":"four sessions, the boy could"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":544.58,"endTime":548.75,"body":"lift his arm into a vertical"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":544.58,"endTime":548.75,"body":"position three times per minute,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":548.84,"endTime":552.68,"body":"indicating that he wanted the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":548.84,"endTime":552.68,"body":"reward and linking the lifting"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":552.68,"endTime":556.22,"body":"of the arm with the reward. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":552.68,"endTime":556.22,"body":"that motivated him to repeat"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":556.22,"endTime":558.92,"body":"that behaviour more and more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":556.22,"endTime":558.92,"body":"frequently."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":559.009,"endTime":561.769,"body":"Now, we've been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":559.009,"endTime":561.769,"body":"describing really quite simple"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":561.769,"endTime":564.859,"body":"behaviours at the moment, a rat"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":561.769,"endTime":564.859,"body":"in a cage, pressing a lever,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":564.889,"endTime":567.799,"body":"getting a reward, a child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":564.889,"endTime":567.799,"body":"sitting nicely in assembly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":567.799,"endTime":572.329,"body":"getting a sticker. But this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":567.799,"endTime":572.329,"body":"mechanism can lead to some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":572.329,"endTime":576.979,"body":"really quite complex behaviours."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":572.329,"endTime":576.979,"body":"As an example, rats to only"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":576.979,"endTime":580.3389999999999,"body":"press the lever when a light in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":576.979,"endTime":580.3389999999999,"body":"the cage came on, or for pigeons"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.3389999999999,"endTime":583.639,"body":"to tap a lever. When certain"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.3389999999999,"endTime":583.639,"body":"words appeared on a simple"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":583.639,"endTime":586.759,"body":"display, they had to learn which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":583.639,"endTime":586.759,"body":"words gave them a reward, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":586.759,"endTime":588.019,"body":"which words to avoid."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":588.32,"endTime":590.12,"body":"So now we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":588.32,"endTime":590.12,"body":"going to think about how the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":590.12,"endTime":594.95,"body":"effect changes over time,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":590.12,"endTime":594.95,"body":"dopamine only fires up on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":595.01,"endTime":600.23,"body":"unexpected rewards, it likes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":595.01,"endTime":600.23,"body":"novelty. So remember, this is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":600.23,"endTime":604.13,"body":"the chemical that says pay"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":600.23,"endTime":604.13,"body":"attention. And we stop paying"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":604.13,"endTime":608.4200000000001,"body":"attention to expected stuff,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":604.13,"endTime":608.4200000000001,"body":"expected stuff fades into the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":608.4200000000001,"endTime":610.73,"body":"background and becomes a bit"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":608.4200000000001,"endTime":610.73,"body":"like wallpaper."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":610.88,"endTime":613.6700000000001,"body":"So whereas"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":610.88,"endTime":613.6700000000001,"body":"before we had a trigger, we've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":613.6700000000001,"endTime":615.6800000000001,"body":"got a rat in a cage and it's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":613.6700000000001,"endTime":615.6800000000001,"body":"bit hungry, we've got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.6800000000001,"endTime":619.28,"body":"behaviour pressing the lever,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.6800000000001,"endTime":619.28,"body":"followed by a hit of dopamine"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":619.28,"endTime":622.76,"body":"saying pay attention to that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":619.28,"endTime":622.76,"body":"What's interesting is over time,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.03,"endTime":627.5,"body":"the dopamine fires before you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.03,"endTime":627.5,"body":"engage in the behaviour, which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":627.53,"endTime":632.33,"body":"leads you to desire or crave the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":627.53,"endTime":632.33,"body":"rewards. And this is what leads"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":632.33,"endTime":634.73,"body":"to habits. It's called a habit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":632.33,"endTime":634.73,"body":"loop. I'm in a certain"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.73,"endTime":637.46,"body":"situation, maybe I'm not a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.73,"endTime":637.46,"body":"smoker. But imagine that you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":637.46,"endTime":641.0,"body":"a smoker and you enjoy smoking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":637.46,"endTime":641.0,"body":"in social environment. So you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":641.0,"endTime":643.46,"body":"out with your friends outside"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":641.0,"endTime":643.46,"body":"because smoking inside is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":643.46,"endTime":645.47,"body":"illegal now, but you're out with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":643.46,"endTime":645.47,"body":"your friends in a social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":645.47,"endTime":649.82,"body":"situation, being in that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":645.47,"endTime":649.82,"body":"situation gets dopamine to fire,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":649.91,"endTime":652.4300000000001,"body":"which makes you crave the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":649.91,"endTime":652.4300000000001,"body":"nicotine that you're used to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":652.4300000000001,"endTime":655.91,"body":"having in that situation. So it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":652.4300000000001,"endTime":655.91,"body":"creates habits and it creates a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":655.91,"endTime":657.11,"body":"desire for something."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":657.2900000000001,"endTime":660.1700000000001,"body":"So if you do a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":657.2900000000001,"endTime":660.1700000000001,"body":"behaviour and the expected"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":660.1700000000001,"endTime":665.09,"body":"reward doesn't come, less"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":660.1700000000001,"endTime":665.09,"body":"dopamine is fired, meaning that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":665.09,"endTime":668.6,"body":"over time you lose the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":665.09,"endTime":668.6,"body":"motivation to engage in that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":668.6,"endTime":672.59,"body":"behaviour. We lose interest in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":668.6,"endTime":672.59,"body":"the behaviours because we no"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":672.59,"endTime":676.28,"body":"longer find them rewarding. We"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":672.59,"endTime":676.28,"body":"need a very high level of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":676.28,"endTime":680.36,"body":"consistency to keep on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":676.28,"endTime":680.36,"body":"encouraging the same behaviour."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":680.48,"endTime":683.6,"body":"So I engage in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":680.48,"endTime":683.6,"body":"the behaviour get a reward 100%"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":683.6,"endTime":687.32,"body":"of the time, I need that 100%"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":683.6,"endTime":687.32,"body":"consistency to keep it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":687.35,"endTime":690.62,"body":"encouraging me to repeat the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":687.35,"endTime":690.62,"body":"behaviour. But there's another"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":690.62,"endTime":694.7,"body":"problem, not just the power of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":690.62,"endTime":694.7,"body":"the reward fading over time. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.73,"endTime":698.0,"body":"as a human being I become"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.73,"endTime":698.0,"body":"habituated or used to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":698.0,"endTime":703.61,"body":"reward. So it loses some of its"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":698.0,"endTime":703.61,"body":"impact and novelty. So now, not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":703.61,"endTime":707.39,"body":"only do I need great"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":703.61,"endTime":707.39,"body":"consistency, I need greater and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":707.39,"endTime":711.41,"body":"greater rewards to have the same"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":707.39,"endTime":711.41,"body":"kind of impact and influence on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":711.41,"endTime":714.2900000000001,"body":"me, what was exciting at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":711.41,"endTime":714.2900000000001,"body":"start of the year for kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":714.44,"endTime":718.07,"body":"becomes very pedestrian, after a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":714.44,"endTime":718.07,"body":"while they might be very excited"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":718.07,"endTime":720.74,"body":"by a new reward scheme, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":718.07,"endTime":720.74,"body":"might be excited to get stickers"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":720.74,"endTime":724.13,"body":"and dojos. But you know, give it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":720.74,"endTime":724.13,"body":"a month, and those rewards"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":724.13,"endTime":727.4300000000001,"body":"become expected, they get used"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":724.13,"endTime":727.4300000000001,"body":"to them, and they lose all of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":727.4300000000001,"endTime":728.09,"body":"their impact."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":728.19,"endTime":731.01,"body":"A great example"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":728.19,"endTime":731.01,"body":"of this is if you've ever played"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":731.01,"endTime":735.03,"body":"a game on a mobile phone, you'll"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":731.01,"endTime":735.03,"body":"see this working in action, to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":735.03,"endTime":738.6,"body":"start with being awarded with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":735.03,"endTime":738.6,"body":"stars and rewards can really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":738.6,"endTime":743.52,"body":"motivate you to play. But after"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":738.6,"endTime":743.52,"body":"a while, you become habituated."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":743.5500000000001,"endTime":746.0400000000001,"body":"And when the rewards come, you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":743.5500000000001,"endTime":746.0400000000001,"body":"just kind of shrug your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":746.0400000000001,"endTime":749.28,"body":"shoulders because they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":746.0400000000001,"endTime":749.28,"body":"expected. It's just another"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":749.28,"endTime":753.8100000000001,"body":"star, it's lost its impact. In"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":749.28,"endTime":753.8100000000001,"body":"fact, sometimes it becomes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":753.8100000000001,"endTime":756.84,"body":"annoying. And you even get to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":753.8100000000001,"endTime":756.84,"body":"the point of clicking the option"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":756.84,"endTime":760.11,"body":"to skip the reward, because it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":756.84,"endTime":760.11,"body":"just wasting time. And it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":760.11,"endTime":760.83,"body":"boring"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":760.9200000000001,"endTime":763.1700000000001,"body":"as humans as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":760.9200000000001,"endTime":763.1700000000001,"body":"well, when we're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":763.1700000000001,"endTime":766.26,"body":"things like whole class or whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":763.1700000000001,"endTime":766.26,"body":"school rewards, we focus"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":766.26,"endTime":770.4300000000001,"body":"intently on the rewards that we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":766.26,"endTime":770.4300000000001,"body":"didn't get, we have this sense"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":770.4300000000001,"endTime":773.97,"body":"of unfairness. So as a child, if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":770.4300000000001,"endTime":773.97,"body":"I'm sat at my desk, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":773.97,"endTime":777.75,"body":"working quietly, and the teacher"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":773.97,"endTime":777.75,"body":"hands out an award to the person"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":777.75,"endTime":780.9,"body":"who sat next to me who to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":777.75,"endTime":780.9,"body":"fair is also working quietly,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":780.9300000000001,"endTime":785.34,"body":"when I don't get the same"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":780.9300000000001,"endTime":785.34,"body":"reward. I feel overlooked and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":785.34,"endTime":789.27,"body":"ignored. And this has a negative"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":785.34,"endTime":789.27,"body":"impact on my motivation. I feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":789.27,"endTime":791.76,"body":"like Well, what's the point in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":789.27,"endTime":791.76,"body":"me doing it because I don't get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":791.76,"endTime":794.7,"body":"noticed. And I don't get the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":791.76,"endTime":794.7,"body":"reward. A good example of this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":794.7,"endTime":797.91,"body":"from the adult realm might be,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":794.7,"endTime":797.91,"body":"imagine that you're having a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":797.91,"endTime":800.7,"body":"performance management"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":797.91,"endTime":800.7,"body":"observation, a manager comes in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":800.7,"endTime":803.25,"body":"and watches you teach. And at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":800.7,"endTime":803.25,"body":"the end of that observation,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":803.28,"endTime":805.86,"body":"their manager says to you, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":803.28,"endTime":805.86,"body":"head teacher says to you, do you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":805.86,"endTime":808.95,"body":"know what that was the most"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":805.86,"endTime":808.95,"body":"amazing observation I've seen in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":808.95,"endTime":811.65,"body":"a long time gives you lots of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":808.95,"endTime":811.65,"body":"positive feedback, and then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":811.65,"endTime":814.38,"body":"says, You know, I think you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":811.65,"endTime":814.38,"body":"been underappreciated, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":814.38,"endTime":819.0600000000001,"body":"to give you a 5000 raise. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":814.38,"endTime":819.0600000000001,"body":"for a while you feel pretty"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":819.0600000000001,"endTime":822.0600000000001,"body":"pleased with yourself, someone's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":819.0600000000001,"endTime":822.0600000000001,"body":"finally recognised you for, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":822.0600000000001,"endTime":824.37,"body":"know, the talents that you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":822.0600000000001,"endTime":824.37,"body":"bringing to the classroom, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":824.37,"endTime":827.1,"body":"only five days later, you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":824.37,"endTime":827.1,"body":"talking in the staff room to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":827.1,"endTime":830.64,"body":"teacher next door, who you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":827.1,"endTime":830.64,"body":"does exactly the same things as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":830.64,"endTime":833.46,"body":"you do. They  had a performance"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":830.64,"endTime":833.46,"body":"management observation, the head"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":833.46,"endTime":836.28,"body":"teacher came in saw virtually"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":833.46,"endTime":836.28,"body":"exactly the same lesson and they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":836.28,"endTime":839.1,"body":"got a raise as well. You say,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":836.28,"endTime":839.1,"body":"Oh, did you get a 5000 pound"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":839.1,"endTime":842.85,"body":"raise as well?, and they said,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":839.1,"endTime":842.85,"body":"No, I got a 10,000 pound raise."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":843.09,"endTime":846.45,"body":"Now all of a sudden, you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":843.09,"endTime":846.45,"body":"focused on the 5000 pound that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":846.45,"endTime":849.8100000000001,"body":"you didn't get that the other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":846.45,"endTime":849.8100000000001,"body":"person did, rather than feeling"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":849.8100000000001,"endTime":852.99,"body":"like you're 5000 pounds better"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":849.8100000000001,"endTime":852.99,"body":"off. So when other people get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":852.99,"endTime":856.0500000000001,"body":"rewards that we feel we should"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":852.99,"endTime":856.0500000000001,"body":"have earned as well, it's got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":856.0500000000001,"endTime":859.62,"body":"huge demotivating effect, we get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":856.0500000000001,"endTime":859.62,"body":"focused on our losses rather"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":859.62,"endTime":861.27,"body":"than our increases in our wins."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":861.3100000000001,"endTime":863.95,"body":"That's so true."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":861.3100000000001,"endTime":863.95,"body":"And also, if you're in a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":863.95,"endTime":867.5500000000001,"body":"situation where you know that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":863.95,"endTime":867.5500000000001,"body":"there's no chance of getting the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":867.5500000000001,"endTime":871.0,"body":"reward that used to be on offer,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":867.5500000000001,"endTime":871.0,"body":"or that's been dangled in front"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":871.0,"endTime":875.38,"body":"of you, you'll actually stop"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":871.0,"endTime":875.38,"body":"engaging in that behaviour, even"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":875.38,"endTime":878.83,"body":"though you might in the past"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":875.38,"endTime":878.83,"body":"have quite happily done that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":878.83,"endTime":883.21,"body":"behaviour before the reward"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":878.83,"endTime":883.21,"body":"system even started. So this is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":883.21,"endTime":887.38,"body":"important to think about when we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":883.21,"endTime":887.38,"body":"consider supply teachers coming"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":887.38,"endTime":891.22,"body":"in or cover teachers, even"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":887.38,"endTime":891.22,"body":"lunchtime supervisors on a day"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":891.22,"endTime":894.7,"body":"to day basis. If there's a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":891.22,"endTime":894.7,"body":"reward system in place, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":894.76,"endTime":898.33,"body":"other adults don't know about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":894.76,"endTime":898.33,"body":"that system. And don't engage"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":898.33,"endTime":902.32,"body":"with it as consistently as you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":898.33,"endTime":902.32,"body":"have when you hand over the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":902.32,"endTime":906.1,"body":"class to somebody else. If you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":902.32,"endTime":906.1,"body":"as the new person coming in and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":906.1,"endTime":910.8100000000001,"body":"don't keep consistency and don't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":906.1,"endTime":910.8100000000001,"body":"use those rewards. Some children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":910.8100000000001,"endTime":914.74,"body":"will get more resentful, because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":910.8100000000001,"endTime":914.74,"body":"they used to get a reward. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":914.74,"endTime":917.44,"body":"now they're not getting a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":914.74,"endTime":917.44,"body":"reward. So behaviour will"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":917.44,"endTime":921.22,"body":"actually decline. And I think"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":917.44,"endTime":921.22,"body":"that's one of the reasons why"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":921.22,"endTime":925.57,"body":"behaviour is often worse for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":921.22,"endTime":925.57,"body":"supply teachers, cover teachers,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":925.6,"endTime":929.2900000000001,"body":"lunchtime supervisors, because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":925.6,"endTime":929.2900000000001,"body":"the systems in place, not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":929.2900000000001,"endTime":932.59,"body":"everybody necessarily knows"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":929.2900000000001,"endTime":932.59,"body":"about it. And now the child"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":932.59,"endTime":935.77,"body":"feels a bit aggrieved that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":932.59,"endTime":935.77,"body":"they're not being rewarded. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":935.77,"endTime":938.32,"body":"they think well, Huh!, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":935.77,"endTime":938.32,"body":"going to do that behaviour"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":938.35,"endTime":942.37,"body":"anyway, even though in the past,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":938.35,"endTime":942.37,"body":"they might have happily done"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":942.37,"endTime":944.5600000000001,"body":"that behaviour without a reward."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":944.35,"endTime":946.96,"body":"So let's just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":944.35,"endTime":946.96,"body":"think about what this means the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":946.96,"endTime":950.26,"body":"way that dopamine fires changes,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":946.96,"endTime":950.26,"body":"dopamine is interested in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":950.26,"endTime":955.0,"body":"novelty, that means that our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":950.26,"endTime":955.0,"body":"reward systems are biologically"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":955.0,"endTime":959.2,"body":"doomed to failure over time. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":955.0,"endTime":959.2,"body":"the only way you can fight that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":959.2,"endTime":963.13,"body":"is by keeping on changing them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":959.2,"endTime":963.13,"body":"or changing how we present them,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":963.34,"endTime":966.76,"body":"or upping the ante so the reward"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":963.34,"endTime":966.76,"body":"increases so we keep our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":966.76,"endTime":970.57,"body":"interest alive in them. So if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":966.76,"endTime":970.57,"body":"your school uses exactly the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":970.57,"endTime":973.24,"body":"same reward system from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":970.57,"endTime":973.24,"body":"beginning to end, from year one"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":973.24,"endTime":977.08,"body":"to year six, it's no wonder it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":973.24,"endTime":977.08,"body":"becomes less effective as kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":977.08,"endTime":980.6800000000001,"body":"get older. In fact, if you in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":977.08,"endTime":980.6800000000001,"body":"your classroom, are using the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":980.6800000000001,"endTime":984.16,"body":"same reward system from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":980.6800000000001,"endTime":984.16,"body":"September to July. That system"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":984.16,"endTime":986.77,"body":"is going to get old. It's no"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":984.16,"endTime":986.77,"body":"wonder that the kids are going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":986.77,"endTime":990.28,"body":"to get used to your behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":986.77,"endTime":990.28,"body":"system, and it's going to lose"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":990.28,"endTime":996.76,"body":"its impact. But it gets worse"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":990.28,"endTime":996.76,"body":"than that. I just like to take a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":996.76,"endTime":999.91,"body":"pause for a moment and say that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":996.76,"endTime":999.91,"body":"if you're finding this podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":999.91,"endTime":1003.09,"body":"useful, then you're going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":999.91,"endTime":1003.09,"body":"love what we've got waiting for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1003.09,"endTime":1006.24,"body":"you in our inner circle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1003.09,"endTime":1006.24,"body":"programme. The inner circle is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1006.24,"endTime":1009.39,"body":"your one stop shop for all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1006.24,"endTime":1009.39,"body":"things behaviour. It's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1009.39,"endTime":1013.1700000000001,"body":"comprehensive platform filled"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1009.39,"endTime":1013.1700000000001,"body":"with videos, resources and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1013.1700000000001,"endTime":1016.38,"body":"behaviour inspiration to get you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1013.1700000000001,"endTime":1016.38,"body":"unstuck with classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1016.38,"endTime":1019.95,"body":"behaviour. We've got training"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1016.38,"endTime":1019.95,"body":"resources on de escalation,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1019.98,"endTime":1023.28,"body":"supporting kids with anxiety"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1019.98,"endTime":1023.28,"body":"support strategies for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1023.28,"endTime":1027.48,"body":"conditions like autism, ADHD,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1023.28,"endTime":1027.48,"body":"and PDA. practical ways of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1027.48,"endTime":1031.26,"body":"helping pupils deal with strong"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1027.48,"endTime":1031.26,"body":"emotions, assertive behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1031.26,"endTime":1033.3899999999999,"body":"management techniques for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1031.26,"endTime":1033.3899999999999,"body":"managing the whole classroom,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1033.45,"endTime":1036.27,"body":"setting out your classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1033.45,"endTime":1036.27,"body":"environment for success,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1036.33,"endTime":1040.1399999999999,"body":"resetting behaviour with tricky"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1036.33,"endTime":1040.1399999999999,"body":"classes, and more. Our online"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1040.1399999999999,"endTime":1043.53,"body":"videos walk you through"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1040.1399999999999,"endTime":1043.53,"body":"practical solutions step by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1043.56,"endTime":1046.6499999999999,"body":"step, just like Netflix, you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1043.56,"endTime":1046.6499999999999,"body":"turn an inner circle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1046.6499999999999,"endTime":1050.34,"body":"subscription on or off whenever"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1046.6499999999999,"endTime":1050.34,"body":"you need to, with no minimum"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1050.34,"endTime":1054.18,"body":"contract. Plus, you can now get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1050.34,"endTime":1054.18,"body":"your first seven days of inner"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1054.18,"endTime":1058.2,"body":"circle for just one pound. Get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1054.18,"endTime":1058.2,"body":"the behaviour answers and you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1058.2,"endTime":1061.11,"body":"been looking forward today with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1058.2,"endTime":1061.11,"body":"inner circle, visit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1061.17,"endTime":1065.01,"body":"www.beaconschoolsupport.co.uk"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1061.17,"endTime":1065.01,"body":"And click on the inner circle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.01,"endTime":1068.04,"body":"picture near the top of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.01,"endTime":1068.04,"body":"homepage for more information."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1070.98,"endTime":1075.96,"body":"Let's look at the impact of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1070.98,"endTime":1075.96,"body":"rewards on intrinsic motivation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1075.96,"endTime":1079.02,"body":"So our intrinsic motivation just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1075.96,"endTime":1079.02,"body":"to come back to the start is our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1079.02,"endTime":1082.44,"body":"natural desire to do something."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1079.02,"endTime":1082.44,"body":"And lots of kids walk into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.44,"endTime":1085.92,"body":"school with a natural desire to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.44,"endTime":1085.92,"body":"do the right thing because they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1085.92,"endTime":1088.17,"body":"want to be the best person they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1085.92,"endTime":1088.17,"body":"can. They want to make their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1088.17,"endTime":1090.84,"body":"parents proud. They want to make"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1088.17,"endTime":1090.84,"body":"their teachers proud. There was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1090.84,"endTime":1094.5,"body":"a fascinating study in 1978 by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1090.84,"endTime":1094.5,"body":"Lepper, Greene and Nisbette"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1094.56,"endTime":1098.1,"body":"called the hidden cost of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1094.56,"endTime":1098.1,"body":"rewards. And what they did was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1098.1,"endTime":1100.8899999999999,"body":"they went into a classroom with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1098.1,"endTime":1100.8899999999999,"body":"five and six year olds, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1100.8899999999999,"endTime":1104.01,"body":"were interested in kids who had"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1100.8899999999999,"endTime":1104.01,"body":"a natural desire of going to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1104.01,"endTime":1107.3999999999999,"body":"art table, kids who just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1104.01,"endTime":1107.3999999999999,"body":"naturally loved going there and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1107.3999999999999,"endTime":1110.34,"body":"using the paints and the drawing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1107.3999999999999,"endTime":1110.34,"body":"materials, they just found a joy"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1110.34,"endTime":1112.86,"body":"in it. And they watched which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1110.34,"endTime":1112.86,"body":"kids went to that table. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1112.86,"endTime":1115.3799999999999,"body":"then they split them into two"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1112.86,"endTime":1115.3799999999999,"body":"groups, there was a control"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1115.3799999999999,"endTime":1118.6799999999998,"body":"group whose experience of using"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1115.3799999999999,"endTime":1118.6799999999998,"body":"the art table was going to stay"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1118.6799999999998,"endTime":1121.53,"body":"exactly the same. And there was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1118.6799999999998,"endTime":1121.53,"body":"a second group who were going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1121.53,"endTime":1124.77,"body":"be given stickers and rewards"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1121.53,"endTime":1124.77,"body":"and certificates and praise for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1124.77,"endTime":1128.2199999999998,"body":"going to the art table. They let"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1124.77,"endTime":1128.2199999999998,"body":"those systems run for a little"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1128.2199999999998,"endTime":1132.9299999999998,"body":"while. And then they removed the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1128.2199999999998,"endTime":1132.9299999999998,"body":"reward system. And that just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1132.9599999999998,"endTime":1135.9299999999998,"body":"emulates what happens over time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1132.9599999999998,"endTime":1135.9299999999998,"body":"of the reward system becoming"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1135.9299999999998,"endTime":1139.23,"body":"less interesting. They took the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1135.9299999999998,"endTime":1139.23,"body":"reward system away and then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1139.23,"endTime":1142.98,"body":"watched what happened. And it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1139.23,"endTime":1142.98,"body":"was fascinating. Now the kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1142.98,"endTime":1145.86,"body":"who their situation hadn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1142.98,"endTime":1145.86,"body":"changed. Obviously, they kept on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1145.86,"endTime":1147.78,"body":"going back to the art table"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1145.86,"endTime":1147.78,"body":"because their experience was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1147.78,"endTime":1150.8999999999999,"body":"exactly the same as before. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1147.78,"endTime":1150.8999999999999,"body":"the kids who had been given a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1150.8999999999999,"endTime":1153.6,"body":"reward system and praised by the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1150.8999999999999,"endTime":1153.6,"body":"adults and given stickers and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1153.6,"endTime":1157.56,"body":"rewards stopped going. And when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1153.6,"endTime":1157.56,"body":"the adults spoke to them, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1157.56,"endTime":1160.3799999999999,"body":"said, Look, I used to love going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1157.56,"endTime":1160.3799999999999,"body":"to the art table. Why don't you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1160.3799999999999,"endTime":1164.07,"body":"go there anymore. in so many"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1160.3799999999999,"endTime":1164.07,"body":"words, they said there's nothing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1164.07,"endTime":1168.1799999999998,"body":"in it for me now. We taken kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1164.07,"endTime":1168.1799999999998,"body":"who had a natural love of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1168.1799999999998,"endTime":1171.6299999999999,"body":"drawing and painting and using"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1168.1799999999998,"endTime":1171.6299999999999,"body":"the art materials. And we'd"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1171.6299999999999,"endTime":1175.62,"body":"extinguish that desire by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1171.6299999999999,"endTime":1175.62,"body":"slapping a reward system on top"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1175.62,"endTime":1178.6799999999998,"body":"because now the reason to go to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1175.62,"endTime":1178.6799999999998,"body":"the art table wasn't because I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1178.6799999999998,"endTime":1181.77,"body":"like to draw and I like to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1178.6799999999998,"endTime":1181.77,"body":"paint. It was Miss is going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1181.77,"endTime":1184.53,"body":"give me a sticker and now that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1181.77,"endTime":1184.53,"body":"payback isn't there anymore."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1184.59,"endTime":1187.6799999999998,"body":"Okay, so in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1184.59,"endTime":1187.6799999999998,"body":"another study, meta analytic"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1187.6799999999998,"endTime":1192.09,"body":"review of experiments examining"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1187.6799999999998,"endTime":1192.09,"body":"the effects of extrinsic rewards"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1192.12,"endTime":1196.86,"body":"on intrinsic motivation,  a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1192.12,"endTime":1196.86,"body":"really snappy title! by Deci,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1196.8899999999999,"endTime":1203.07,"body":"Koestner and Ryan in 1999 looked"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1196.8899999999999,"endTime":1203.07,"body":"at the effects of 128 studies"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1203.1,"endTime":1208.1399999999999,"body":"that used extrinsic rewards,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1203.1,"endTime":1208.1399999999999,"body":"usually money on motivation. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1208.1399999999999,"endTime":1212.07,"body":"what they find was that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1208.1399999999999,"endTime":1212.07,"body":"extrinsic rewards significantly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1212.1,"endTime":1217.1399999999999,"body":"undermined intrinsic motivation."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1212.1,"endTime":1217.1399999999999,"body":"This included all tangible"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1217.1399999999999,"endTime":1221.8799999999999,"body":"rewards. Rewards actually reduce"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1217.1399999999999,"endTime":1221.8799999999999,"body":"the motivation of participants,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1221.9099999999999,"endTime":1225.6599999999999,"body":"whether they were focused on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1221.9099999999999,"endTime":1225.6599999999999,"body":"engagement. So for example, if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1225.6599999999999,"endTime":1229.11,"body":"they were paid for how long they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1225.6599999999999,"endTime":1229.11,"body":"worked on a task, or whether"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1229.11,"endTime":1231.9299999999998,"body":"they were paid for the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1229.11,"endTime":1231.9299999999998,"body":"completion of the task, the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1231.9299999999998,"endTime":1236.61,"body":"study looked at a range of ages,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1231.9299999999998,"endTime":1236.61,"body":"but found both tangible and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1236.61,"endTime":1240.9299999999998,"body":"verbal rewards were actually"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1236.61,"endTime":1240.9299999999998,"body":"more detrimental for children."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1240.9499999999998,"endTime":1244.01,"body":"So what these"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1240.9499999999998,"endTime":1244.01,"body":"studies show is that when we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1244.01,"endTime":1246.8,"body":"meddle with kids natural"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1244.01,"endTime":1246.8,"body":"motivation to do the right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1246.8,"endTime":1250.9099999999999,"body":"thing, or engage in an activity"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1246.8,"endTime":1250.9099999999999,"body":"by adding an unnecessary reward"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1250.9099999999999,"endTime":1254.81,"body":"system on the top, what we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1250.9099999999999,"endTime":1254.81,"body":"doing is over time, we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1254.81,"endTime":1258.6499999999999,"body":"actually decreasing their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1254.81,"endTime":1258.6499999999999,"body":"motivation. The trap is as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1258.6799999999998,"endTime":1261.6499999999999,"body":"adults, when we think about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1258.6799999999998,"endTime":1261.6499999999999,"body":"reward systems have used in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1261.6499999999999,"endTime":1266.54,"body":"past, we remember the initial"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1261.6499999999999,"endTime":1266.54,"body":"impact those systems had, and we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1266.54,"endTime":1270.53,"body":"forget about their gradual"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1266.54,"endTime":1270.53,"body":"decline over the weeks and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1270.53,"endTime":1274.55,"body":"months. We focus on that initial"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1270.53,"endTime":1274.55,"body":"change, which does exist, it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1274.55,"endTime":1278.6899999999998,"body":"valid you do see it compared to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1274.55,"endTime":1278.6899999999998,"body":"that gradual decline that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1278.7199999999998,"endTime":1282.1699999999998,"body":"gradual demotivation that will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1278.7199999999998,"endTime":1282.1699999999998,"body":"always follow."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1282.55,"endTime":1285.52,"body":"But all hope is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1282.55,"endTime":1285.52,"body":"not lost. There are two"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1285.52,"endTime":1290.8,"body":"extrinsic rewards that do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1285.52,"endTime":1290.8,"body":"actually work. The first one is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1291.04,"endTime":1296.1399999999999,"body":"praise. It's an external reward"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1291.04,"endTime":1296.1399999999999,"body":"that has a different internal"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1296.1399999999999,"endTime":1300.58,"body":"impact that actually creates"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1296.1399999999999,"endTime":1300.58,"body":"more intrinsic motivation. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1300.58,"endTime":1304.54,"body":"that's because it alters the way"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1300.58,"endTime":1304.54,"body":"that the children feel about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1304.54,"endTime":1305.4099999999999,"body":"themselves."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1305.6799999999998,"endTime":1309.07,"body":"And also, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1305.6799999999998,"endTime":1309.07,"body":"can use completely unexpected"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1309.07,"endTime":1312.9699999999998,"body":"rewards. These have been found"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1309.07,"endTime":1312.9699999999998,"body":"to have no impact on intrinsic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1312.9699999999998,"endTime":1316.78,"body":"motivation whatsoever, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1312.9699999999998,"endTime":1316.78,"body":"the brain can't predict when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1316.78,"endTime":1319.7199999999998,"body":"they're coming. So as a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1316.78,"endTime":1319.7199999999998,"body":"surprise, if I give flowers to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1319.7199999999998,"endTime":1323.4099999999999,"body":"my wife randomly, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1319.7199999999998,"endTime":1323.4099999999999,"body":"have a big impact. If I pick up"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1323.4099999999999,"endTime":1326.23,"body":"some flowers from the florist"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1323.4099999999999,"endTime":1326.23,"body":"every Friday afternoon, over"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1326.23,"endTime":1329.02,"body":"time, that becomes an expected"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1326.23,"endTime":1329.02,"body":"behaviour. And by the way,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1329.02,"endTime":1331.33,"body":"that's my excuse for not picking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1329.02,"endTime":1331.33,"body":"up flowers every week, it's to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1331.33,"endTime":1335.6499999999999,"body":"keep the relationship alive. In"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1331.33,"endTime":1335.6499999999999,"body":"class, if you have a surprise,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1335.6499999999999,"endTime":1338.62,"body":"and I put surprise in inverted"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1335.6499999999999,"endTime":1338.62,"body":"commas there, that's not going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1338.62,"endTime":1342.37,"body":"to work because the kids learn"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1338.62,"endTime":1342.37,"body":"to expect the surprise. Even if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1342.37,"endTime":1345.6399999999999,"body":"the surprise changes from week"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1342.37,"endTime":1345.6399999999999,"body":"to week to week, the kids learn"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1345.6399999999999,"endTime":1348.9099999999999,"body":"that that reward is coming. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1345.6399999999999,"endTime":1348.9099999999999,"body":"it's not an unexpected reward."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1349.06,"endTime":1350.6799999999998,"body":"You just don't know what the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1349.06,"endTime":1350.6799999999998,"body":"reward is."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1350.74,"endTime":1354.1299999999999,"body":"So that's our"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1350.74,"endTime":1354.1299999999999,"body":"roundup of how using extrinsic"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1354.1299999999999,"endTime":1358.3,"body":"reward systems can actually"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1354.1299999999999,"endTime":1358.3,"body":"crush children's natural desire"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1358.3,"endTime":1361.4499999999998,"body":"to do the right thing. Of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1358.3,"endTime":1361.4499999999998,"body":"course, we're not saying you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1361.4499999999998,"endTime":1365.26,"body":"shouldn't use reward systems,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1361.4499999999998,"endTime":1365.26,"body":"but you have to be smart about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1365.26,"endTime":1369.1599999999999,"body":"how you use them, when you use"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1365.26,"endTime":1369.1599999999999,"body":"them, and how long you can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1369.1599999999999,"endTime":1370.7199999999998,"body":"expect them to work for."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1370.8999999999999,"endTime":1373.3899999999999,"body":"And as a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1370.8999999999999,"endTime":1373.3899999999999,"body":"society, we do need to get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1373.3899999999999,"endTime":1378.07,"body":"better at encouraging intrinsic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1373.3899999999999,"endTime":1378.07,"body":"motivation, the idea that we act"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1378.07,"endTime":1380.98,"body":"in a certain way, because it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1378.07,"endTime":1380.98,"body":"the right thing to do, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1380.98,"endTime":1384.9399999999998,"body":"it aligns with our values, our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1380.98,"endTime":1384.9399999999998,"body":"identity, our sense of belonging"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1384.9399999999998,"endTime":1388.4499999999998,"body":"to a certain group, and then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1384.9399999999998,"endTime":1388.4499999999998,"body":"those good behaviours will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1388.4499999999998,"endTime":1391.9299999999998,"body":"persist. Even if we're not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1388.4499999999998,"endTime":1391.9299999999998,"body":"dangling a carrot in front of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1391.9299999999998,"endTime":1392.35,"body":"someone."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1392.35,"endTime":1395.05,"body":"Knowing about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1392.35,"endTime":1395.05,"body":"how to use reward systems"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1395.05,"endTime":1399.52,"body":"effectively is just one part of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1395.05,"endTime":1399.52,"body":"classroom management, how to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1399.52,"endTime":1403.27,"body":"manage the behaviour of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1399.52,"endTime":1403.27,"body":"whole class. If you want to see"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1403.27,"endTime":1406.6899999999998,"body":"how it fits alongside your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1403.27,"endTime":1406.6899999999998,"body":"routines, your environment and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1406.7199999999998,"endTime":1410.05,"body":"other factors, we've got a free"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1406.7199999999998,"endTime":1410.05,"body":"download, you'll find useful"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1410.05,"endTime":1413.77,"body":"called classroom management"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1410.05,"endTime":1413.77,"body":"score sheet. In fact, the score"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1413.77,"endTime":1418.03,"body":"sheet gives you 37 factors that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1413.77,"endTime":1418.03,"body":"have an impact on classroom"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1418.03,"endTime":1421.84,"body":"behaviour. If you want to know"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1418.03,"endTime":1421.84,"body":"what they are, grab a free copy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1421.84,"endTime":1423.82,"body":"of the score sheet today by"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1421.84,"endTime":1423.82,"body":"going to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1423.85,"endTime":1428.1999999999998,"body":"www.beaconschoolsupport.co.uk"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1423.85,"endTime":1428.1999999999998,"body":"Clicking on the free resources"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1428.23,"endTime":1431.1699999999998,"body":"option in the menu, and you'll"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1428.23,"endTime":1431.1699999999998,"body":"find it near the top of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1431.1699999999998,"endTime":1435.1599999999999,"body":"page. It's completely free. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1431.1699999999998,"endTime":1435.1599999999999,"body":"get it today and we'll drop a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1435.1599999999999,"endTime":1437.26,"body":"link in the episode description"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1435.1599999999999,"endTime":1437.26,"body":"too."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1437.5,"endTime":1439.54,"body":"If you found"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1437.5,"endTime":1439.54,"body":"today's show interesting or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1439.54,"endTime":1442.6599999999999,"body":"useful, and you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1439.54,"endTime":1442.6599999999999,"body":"miss behaviour insights like"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1442.6599999999999,"endTime":1445.6299999999999,"body":"this in the future, you can tell"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1442.6599999999999,"endTime":1445.6299999999999,"body":"your podcast app to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1445.6599999999999,"endTime":1449.53,"body":"automatically Watch out for new"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1445.6599999999999,"endTime":1449.53,"body":"episodes and download them for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1449.53,"endTime":1453.07,"body":"you. To do that. Open your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1449.53,"endTime":1453.07,"body":"podcast app now. And give the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1453.07,"endTime":1456.25,"body":"subscribe button that tiny"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1453.07,"endTime":1456.25,"body":"little fist bump. Not only will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1456.25,"endTime":1458.9199999999998,"body":"you get a little rush of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1456.25,"endTime":1458.9199999999998,"body":"dopamine yourself, you'll also"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1458.9199999999998,"endTime":1462.79,"body":"make sure that the next episode"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1458.9199999999998,"endTime":1462.79,"body":"is waiting for you every week."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1463.0,"endTime":1465.82,"body":"And if you're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1463.0,"endTime":1465.82,"body":"new to our behaviour podcast,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1465.82,"endTime":1469.48,"body":"don't forget you can go back to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1465.82,"endTime":1469.48,"body":"our previous episodes. If you've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1469.48,"endTime":1472.81,"body":"enjoyed today's episode and you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1469.48,"endTime":1472.81,"body":"find it useful. You might really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1472.81,"endTime":1475.9599999999998,"body":"like episode number five where"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1472.81,"endTime":1475.9599999999998,"body":"we talked about whole class"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1475.9599999999998,"endTime":1480.1899999999998,"body":"reward systems and what makes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1475.9599999999998,"endTime":1480.1899999999998,"body":"them effective. If you find"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1480.1899999999998,"endTime":1484.4199999999998,"body":"today's podcast useful, why not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1480.1899999999998,"endTime":1484.4199999999998,"body":"be a great mate and recommend it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1484.4199999999998,"endTime":1487.9599999999998,"body":"to one friend. You could either"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1484.4199999999998,"endTime":1487.9599999999998,"body":"send them a message or simply"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1487.9599999999998,"endTime":1491.6499999999999,"body":"use the share button in your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1487.9599999999998,"endTime":1491.6499999999999,"body":"podcast app. And then other"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1491.6499999999999,"endTime":1495.01,"body":"teachers and school leaders can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1491.6499999999999,"endTime":1495.01,"body":"find the show and start getting"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1495.01,"endTime":1497.62,"body":"the help they need to support"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1495.01,"endTime":1497.62,"body":"the children in their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1497.62,"endTime":1498.55,"body":"classrooms."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1499.1299999999999,"endTime":1501.86,"body":"We hope you have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1499.1299999999999,"endTime":1501.86,"body":"a great week and can't wait to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1501.86,"endTime":1504.83,"body":"see you next time on school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1501.86,"endTime":1504.83,"body":"behaviour secrets. Goodbye"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1504.8899999999999,"endTime":1505.49,"body":"Bye then"}]}