Designing Smarter Spaces for Science and Technology

Interior design and architecture are often described as perfectly blending art, science, and technology. Part of the beauty of that blend is being able to craft spaces that look aesthetically pleasing and yet also have a lot going on behind the scenes, with every element meticulously planned to optimize efficiency and effectiveness. Perhaps nowhere else does that blend matter more than when designing spaces specifically for the science and technology sector. 

Hosted by: 
Jarett Anderson - BWBR Project Manager

Guests:
Chris Fischer - Design Leader
Kat Lauer - Interior Designer

Music provided by Artlist.io
Siberian Summer by Sunny Fruit
DuDa by Ian Post

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Transcript

Matthew Gerstner  00:10

This is Side of Design from BWBR a podcast discussing all aspects of design with knowledge leaders from every part of the industry.

Jarett Anderson  00:20

Hello, and welcome to Side of Design from BWBR. I'm Jarett Anderson BWBR project manager and architect and your host for this episode. On this episode, we'll be talking with BWBR design leader and architect Chris Fischer, and interior designer Kat Lauer about their work, serving our science and technology clients by creating lab spaces, and how each of their unique backgrounds helps make them stronger designers. Kat and Chris, thanks for joining us today, we're excited to hear from you both. Chris and Kat, can you give us the listeners a little bit of an overview of the kind of work that we at BWBR categorize as science and technology, as well as some background on our lab design process and expertise.

Chris Fischer  01:06

So we work with a number of high tech firms in the medical device area and the biotech area, also in general manufacturing. And we generally work with their R&D groups to help them basically design new R&D facilities to help them figure out ways to be more efficient, more innovative, and create more thoughtful working environments that enhance what they do every day. Kat, want to add?

Kat Lauer  01:34

Yeah. In addition, I think we do a lot of higher education work specifically in science and technology buildings, that falls under that category. Also, within our healthcare practice, we do labs, but you know, the science of tech work that Chris is talking about ranges from, you know, molecular level stuff to large transportation, right, it's it's not all one type of tech.

Jarett Anderson  01:57

Right. It's not just clean spaces, it's a little bit of everything, right? And it involves chemicals, and involves manufacturing, and it's kind of a space where I think that we need to kind of sweat the details, if you will, on a lot of this, right? Where some of these spaces, they are manufacturing, they're clean, they can seem simple on the surface, but you really have to pay attention to how everything is organized, what the finishes are, how things are insulated, and how it all works. So you know, with with that said, can you tell us a little bit about what makes this kind of work unique and challenging? What are some of those special considerations that need to be taken into account?

Chris Fischer  02:36

Well, Jarett, I think one of the things you alluded to is the complex nature of some of these spaces, whether you're talking about high end clean rooms, and when we're talking about that we're talking everything from class 1000, all the way up to, you know, class 100,000. So a wide range of requirements that go into these spaces where manufacturing is done. So we have to be very thoughtful about the workflow, the work process, and then how that affects the atmosphere, the environment that these folks are working in. And so that aspect is really the complex nature. And then to throw in another caveat, most of these environments include the fact that they're part of an overall R&D building envelope. And so bringing in potential clients to see how the process is done, throws in another caveat into the mix, because these environments, ideally, are just closed off and unto themselves. So that you can maintain these different environments from a humidity standpoint, from an air cleanliness standpoint, but bringing that next level of transparency, and the idea that clients and people who work there can understand the flow and the process is critical to the success of the project.

Jarett Anderson  03:53

So there's that, the R&D, the research and development side of things, right, some of that is proprietary to that company, in some ways too, right, or that space or place. And they might, you know, want to keep some of those things behind doors to behind closed doors and not show some things off. So there's a lot of a lot of things that you were just talking about in terms of flow. Flow of, you know, the public coming in flow of staff coming in services, you know, you name it, gases and storage and supplies, and then waste coming out the other side or product, and how that whole thing works is likely, I would guess unique to each institution or each client that we work with.

Kat Lauer  04:34

Yeah, and you need each product type or whatever that client is making can really vary. But I think more and more those facilities are something you want to show off you put a lot of money into a new clean facility or a manufacturing facility and being able to show an investor or a potential customer where their product is being made can be really a benefit too, as well as being conscious of what what all you're showing up because it is sometimes confidential.

Jarett Anderson  05:01

And you also have to pay attention to who is working there on a day to day basis, right? Like, if you're someone on a manufacturing line, how is your day to day operation going? Where are you eating lunch? You know, where are you changing that kind of a thing? Right? How much time do you have to do all those things? And, you know, to make sure that you're entering the space, you know, cleanly and in a certain way, those are those are a lot of things to think about as well, I would imagine. And then I think another side that Chris, you were maybe alluding to is kind of the collaborative nature and transparency in there a little bit in terms of maybe researchers working with other researchers,

Chris Fischer  05:38

Right. And then I think the other piece that you just brought forth, which is the general flow, you're starting to talk about people flow and people flow is obviously very important, not only from the standpoint of efficiency, but how people spend their day, how many steps they take in a day, and so forth. I think there's other aspects to flow as well, obviously, raw material flow in and product flow out and how the whole building is arranged, whether it's manufacturing or whether it's just R&D in its pilot space, or it's just general bench space, how the building functions and flows to accommodate the research and the innovation.

Chris Fischer  05:39

And then I'm guessing that our clients also pay attention and are curious about adaptability and flexibility of these spaces.

Kat Lauer  05:52

Yeah, certainly. I mean, you set up a lab, and we probably all have a picture of little lab spaces with really kind of fixed casework, or what we might have experienced in high school or college, you know, science labs. But talking about a R&D facility for a medical device manufacturer, they want to be able to be nimble and agile and move that equipment around as needed. So there's both flexibility in terms of the room orientation, and the the laboratory furniture and casework, but also the utilities that are serving all of that equipment, and being aware of how those are brought throughout the facility

Chris Fischer  07:00

To add is one of the key factors in that is trying to create modularity within that system. And that really allows for, or is was one of the key factors for, creating this adaptability and future flexibility, and not having to pay for it all on day one, right. And being thoughtful with the structural system and with the mechanical system in that modular layout so that things can easily access both on day one and in the future. And it doesn't mean you have to go run a gas line back to the central plant, or a duct back to the central plant or an exhaust line. All of those things can be relatively at your fingertips, if you will, maybe not right in the lab, but very proximate to the lab.

Jarett Anderson  07:48

Part of that flexibility and adaptability, we consider code a really important part of this as well, right and bring a code expertise to the table as well, in terms of zooming way back. And, you know, thinking about these environments again, sweating the details about you know, how many chemicals can you have in certain areas, you know, given, right, how a building itself might layout on a site? Chris, if you can speak at all to that. 

Chris Fischer  08:14

Yeah, absolutely. I can start it and pass it on. I think it's one of the area's that's probably the most challenging in these complex environments is really being able to number one, categorize and understand the different chemicals that are involved in the research or in the manufacturing or pilot process. That's number one. Two, then getting the client to understand and be able to share the overall quantities because that gets back to the code and how you break down the building. And then from there, we can basically give occupancy characteristics to the building, whether it's going to be something that's a B occupancy, possibly that's broken into control areas, or it's an H occupancy of some sort. And there's a number of different H occupancies. We can choose from depending on the chemicals, types, and what is needed for for the process. So that is an area that gets really complex. And it's something that BWBR does very well. And we have a couple of folks who specialize in codes and are absolutely terrific at discerning the different chemical types, and figuring out the best way to break up the building or classify the building.

Jarett Anderson  09:33

Kat, can you tell us a little bit about your background, and your journey to where you are now. And you know, what's your role in, what's your typical role? I think it's maybe a tough question that to answer because you're likely not just a typical thing. Each situation is a little bit different. But you know, in a lab design project, what are things that you take on?

Kat Lauer  09:53

How far back of a history do you want? I mean ..

Jarett Anderson  09:56

 How far back do you want to go? I mean, there's ...

Kat Lauer  10:00

So, say back in high school when I was thinking about what I wanted to do when I got to college, and I was very interested in both art and design, and then also science. So I got to college, right after high school and decided to be a physics major. So I majored in physics, and really loved understanding all the theory and the formulas and the math. I mean, I liked figuring out equations, dorky as that sounds. And then ended up going to grad school for biophysics, because I had done a couple internships in undergrad with different areas of physics and biophysics felt like the best fit in terms of the human aspects of science and relating physics back to really practical day to day advances for life. So I went to grad school and work in a lab doing molecular biophysics and looking at proteins that affect how tumors might be expressed in cells, that the idea of curing cancer, I don't know, save the world. End goal.

Jarett Anderson  10:58

Moonshot, let's go for it. 

Kat Lauer  11:00

Exactly. But while I was in grad school, I started to do more and more stuff on the side outside of school, taking pottery classes, and trying to nurture that design side again, kind of eventually figured out that science while I love it, and I'm fascinated by it on a day to day basis, I needed something with a more tangible result on a day to day basis. So ended up leaving grad school with my master's degree, and worked in a few different areas for a while while I sorted out, okay, just spent this time in school what I want to do, and eventually decide to go back to school for interior design, kind of a full circle back to my, what I thought I wanted to do when I was 16. And got my interior design degree. And I've been working in the field now for three years, and really happy to land at BWBR in terms of the types of work that we do really mesh, my two loves, I guess of science and design.

Jarett Anderson  11:53

That's really cool. Do you feel like you can bring more of your full self to work? In that case? Are you bring more of your full self to certain projects? Like, do you feel like you're that much more invested in things because of that?

Kat Lauer  12:04

Yeah, I think so it's definitely, especially with the science and tech projects, you know, being able to relate to being in a lab, you know, what that's like, on a day to day basis?

Jarett Anderson  12:15

Because it turns out that interior design is more than just colors.

Kat Lauer  12:18

It is and I think, you know, in some ways, I went back to school for it blindly, not necessarily realizing that and then, you know, has turned out to be a much better fit than I even thought it would be so because of that because it is so much more technical than I originally thought. And, and because there are firms like BWBR that specialize in science and tech projects.

Jarett Anderson  12:40

Nice. So Chris, same question over to you. Can you tell us a little bit about your background, your journey to where you are now and your typical role within a project?

Chris Fischer  12:50

Yeah, absolutely. First though. because I have similar background, I have a master's degree in molecular biology, along with my master's degree in architecture, I do have to ask Kat one question, since we both have this science background and more of a molecular, at a more of a molecular level, do you think your past history and your education helps you visualize and conceptualize a little bit better, because of what your background was? And what you had to do to understand things that you couldn't see?

Kat Lauer  13:25

Yeah, I think so. Because yeah, I mean, so I was doing molecular biophysics is simply doing X ray crystallography, trying to figure out the molecular structure of proteins, right. So you're trying to figure out this, you know, we all know the structure of water, right is two hydrogen molecules and one oxygen molecule. And you think about protein, which is 1000s of atoms, and how they all connect to each other. But day to day, you're just looking at stuff in a test tube where you might be running a gel, which I'm sure you ran gels. And you just end up with these bands. And you have to think it means something in a very abstract way, and then connect it back to Okay, I see this two dimensional dot on a thing? How does this relate to what's going on inside the cell inside the human body?

Chris Fischer  14:10

And the reason I bring that up, Jarett is everybody inevitably asks, So how in the world did you make the jump from biology or biophysics over to architecture? And I would say, in many ways, it's not that big of a jump. Same approach to problem solving. And then this idea and I will tell you, the folks who work in molecular biophysics or molecular biology or any protein or biochemistry level, they have to be able to visualize things they have to be able to diagram things because it's the only way you can actually work things out in your head when you can't see them right? And so I think I agree with cat that it was a great background actually coming in into architecture and design and interior design and and it's really been helpful from a process standpoint in working through design problems. And science and technology problems, and so forth, certainly there's that direct connection and having that background or knowledge.

Jarett Anderson  15:09

Maybe being more open to testing, your design and more, maybe even that much more, I like to feel like we're all open to feedback, but maybe that makes you all a little bit more that much, that much more objective. And that sort of thing, like, oh, well, if this doesn't work, then we really, instead of having to force it to work, you know, find that better, different solution that's over here. I completely empathize with that, you know, I have a master's in architecture, and my minor was mathematics, and philosophy of all things at a minor focus, and two seemingly divergent things, but it's more about the qualitative and the subjective things coming together. And that's where design and that design process kind of comes together. And yeah, like the, you know, systemic way that get you were talking about, you know, the underpinnings of things and, and how it all comes together. And, you know, I think we all see that when we see, you know, a program list or an equipment list or, you know, certain problems that our R&D folks might be experiencing, you can empathize with that also on a different level, more tangible level as well, which I think is great. But sorry, Chris, I interrupted you.

Chris Fischer  16:24

No, this is good. And so ultimately, to get get back to my background, we've moved back and forth a little bit of kind of like, the design process, or through another iteration. The background that came to me as I came out of college, hoping to go to med school, and that didn't pan out. I didn't get into med school. And so I then moved on to grad school for molecular biology, which I found interesting. And then upon leaving there with a master's degree, I was fortunate enough to get a job down at the University of Chicago doing research and much like Kat again, nice crossover here, was researching immunology interestingly enough for the Chief of Cardiology, who had an amazing set, or fleet out, and we'll say, of labs, where he did both cardiology work and immunology work. And we were looking at more basic research that impacted the immune system, but also impacted the response to cancers. And so we were looking at transcription factors that affected T cell and T cell response to tumors, okay. And we were doing basic research to figure out what those different transcription factors were, which, and for those of you out there, if I'm talking transcription factor, it's basically a protein that allows for gene regulation. So that's what we were looking into. From there, I went back to school, I did that for about four or five years and decided that wasn't exactly my cup of tea, and was very interested in architecture and finding out about that. So I was able to get my master's degree after that. And then worked in, this is probably my sixth or seventh firm. I've been able, I've been fortunate enough to bounce around both because we've moved and, and also because I wanted to check out both small, medium and large type firms. And I've been fortunate over my career to work at some very good places with some very good people. And I'm blessed now to be here working with you all at BWBR.

Jarett Anderson  18:23

And then your typical role when you when you hop on a project, then what role do you take on?

Chris Fischer  18:29

As a design leader, I come in at the very front end of the project and start working with a client to establish their vision and their goals. And we try to take their vision and their goals and try to conceptualize that into the three dimensional form, right, and put together a building that is meeting their needs, both functionally and aesthetically. And so ultimately, we work very hard to ask them the right questions, and really pull out as much information as we can from them. So that we can put together a building that flows properly functions properly, provides areas for people to come together to ideate, to innovate. It's really important, especially in the S&T area, but I think in all aspects, that we realize that we are all better together than we are apart, right. And so creating these buildings, not only for machines that do work, but for people who are innovative and thoughtful and put these machines together or put them adjacent to one another and and that allows for new and creative ideas to flow between individuals and between groups and processes is really the end goal of what we do. 

Jarett Anderson  19:47

You're starting to get to how your background has translated to how you kind of approach your work on a on a day to day basis a little bit. And you know, do either of you have any more tangible examples of how all of that has played into your practice, or maybe even informed lessons that you've learned over time. 

Kat Lauer  20:11

Coming from a science background and having had the experience of working in a lab. You know, when when you're meeting with a client, and they're talking about our NMR machine, or our electrophoresis, or whatever types of specific equipment they have, you know, if you've never encountered that, in the day to day life and had to work with those types of machines, that can be a little, it's a foreign language really, you know. But being able to go into the room and say, oh, yeah, yeah, I have a have a concept of what that looks like, I can ask, we can ask some more probing questions to better understand what those processes are, and how they particularly use that equipment. But even just knowing the lingo, it's not some concept of how big this might be, or how small that thing is, or how critical, you know, this one small step, and a really long process is, you know, maybe there's just one step in that process that is the the key to the whole thing.

Chris Fischer  21:11

And along those lines, I think something we talked about earlier that is definitely critical to my processes, is being able to break things down into their purest form and diagram that right. And so your concepts are generated from diagrams. And having that ability to diagram these things makes architecture a lot easier, at least from where I'm coming from, and the process that I come in to plan. And so having that background of problem solving, and doing that via the abstract diagram, and turning that into something that then becomes architecture is critical. I think the other aspect of it is, is the analysis part of it, right? I mean, when we first attack any project, we're looking at the site, and we're looking at the site from the standpoint of hopefully, we're taking in all the variables, whether that's daylight and sunlight and orientation, where the winds coming from, and how that impacts the shape and the position of the building on the site, water flow, all of those things come into play. And we say that those are key critical factors without getting directly into sustainability, right? These these are critical factors that are a huge part of sustainability. But they're a huge part of making a building function from the daylighting standpoint, and from from the standpoint of being user friendly and thoughtful as you approach a building. And those are critical elements that you need to go into in every project, analyze all that data. And then as you slide into the sustainable aspects of things, being able to look at data and decide whether this is helping the building or hurting the building, being able to decipher primary objectives. And what's the most important thing, you know, in this particular building type. And it's really interesting when we get into R&D and S&T type buildings, do we need a really tight envelope on this building? Or do we need to focus on heat recovery because, well, we're exhausting so much air that the envelope doesn't even matter anymore, with putting so much fan power and so much air in and out of the building that, certainly the envelope always matters, but to a degree compared to maybe a B occupancy, business occupancy building, whether it's just about number of offices, the relative importance of the thickness of the insulation on the envelope isn't as big of a factor if you're sucking, you know, half of the air that's coming into the building right back out of the building, right. So it's interesting, but being able to tap into all the characteristics and the parameters and trying to make good decisions on how that impacts the exterior of the building, how that impacts the interior of the building. And what becomes the key drivers for design decisions all go back to I think, having that problem solving and analytical development that came from having a scientific background.

Kat Lauer  24:12

Listening to Chris, he's using the words, variables, and data and parameters, just thinking about like, okay, back in the lab, if you're setting up an experiment, like these are all the things you're gonna think about, right? And it's all the same. It's not all the same, but it's analyzing all those different factors and what are the variables that you need to control to make sure that the building functions and sort of like what are the variables you need to control to make sure the experiment turns out right? It's funny how many parallels there are.

Jarett Anderson  24:39

In our sense it's almost play with too, it's part of what are the variables we get to play with and and can you know to find that new solution and that new thing? Thank you both Kat and Chris, for your time today. I enjoyed talking with you. And did you have any other closing thoughts you wanted to share?

Kat Lauer  24:59

You know, when I was in grad school and trying to figure out if I wanted to stay in science or not, and I was spending more time like organizing and labeling the lab than I was always doing my experiments. I think that was telling me something that, you know, maybe maybe designing the space for the people who are going to change the world is more my place than running the experiments.

Chris Fischer  25:19

I would say, I think we're fortunate in this industry, I think just just about everybody who comes into work every day in architecture really enjoys what they do. You have tangible impacts. But I will also say this, it's an interesting crossover because it's a very dynamic time for science and research as well. When I first went into architecture school, Jarett, my first professor said, What are you doing? You just came from a biochemical background. They're like, that's where innovation is at right now. architecture's innovation happened about 100 years ago, he said. I don't necessarily believe that I think we're always striving to do better. But it was an interesting comparison. I was making the wrong choice. And I was making a transition at the wrong time.

Jarett Anderson  26:00

Well, sometimes if he hadn't been questioned, why are you in this field? Then I don't know if you're really testing the boundaries in school, right? Thank you. Thank you both very much for your time today. All right, everybody. Thanks for catching us on this episode, and we'll see you on the other side.

Matthew Gerstner  26:18

This has been Side of Design from BWBR brought to you without any paid advertisements or commercials. If you found value in what you've heard today. Give us a like, leave us a comment. Or better yet, share us with your network. You can also reach out to us if you'd like to share an idea for a show or start a discussion. Email us at sideofdesign@bwbr.com