Side of Design
A podcast from BWBR, for those with a craving to take their organizations and spaces to new heights, with a side of design. We explore topics and issues affecting how we heal, learn, work, research, play and pray with those whose passion and expertise centers on the spaces that enable us to do all of that.
Side of Design
Quality by Design: Construction, Coordination, and Collaboration
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Quality in design and construction is easy to recognize, but far more complex to achieve. It’s not just about how a building looks when it’s finished, but about the processes that carry a project from concept through construction. In this episode of Side of Design, we sit down with BWBR’s Director of Professional Services Dan Hottinger and Construction Administration Manager Bryan Desma to unpack what “quality” really means in design and construction—and how it begins long before a project breaks ground.
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Welcome And Topic: Defining Quality
Matt GerstnerThis is Side Design from BWBR, a podcast discussing all aspects of design with knowledge leaders from every part of the industry. Hello and welcome to Side of Design from BWBR. I'm your host, Matt Gerstner. On today's episode, we'll be talking about quality, specifically as it relates to design and construction. When it comes to quality, we all know it when we see it. But reverse engineering processes to get to that result can be a more complicated matter. Joining me to unpack this important topic are BWBR Construction Administration Manager Bryan Desma and Professional Services Director Dan Hottinger. Thank you both for being here today and making time for this conversation. Yeah, thank you. I'm just going to get things started off and ask each of you if you'd like to introduce yourselves to our audience, you know, and talk a little bit about your roles and give them a chance to understand why you're on our conversation today.
Guest Intros And Roles
Dan HottingerI'll kick us off. My name is Dan Hottinger. I'm a principal and the director of professional services at BWBR. Like to joke with people that everything we do once we land the project to get it in the office, get it documented out into the field and built kind of falls underneath my umbrella. So I have a uh close relationship with construction administration and quality assurance, the spec writers, the code folks, and the project managers on each project.
Bryan DesmaAnd uh hello, my name is Brian Desma, and I'm a construction administrator at BWBR. And not everyone knows what that title means. So for those who are not familiar with it, in a nutshell, my job is to represent the architect and the owner's best interest during the construction process. So once the project is complete with the design phase and it goes into construction, I help facilitate the project to make sure it gets to build to meet the design intent. My day consists of reviewing and answering questions, ultimately ensuring the budget and schedule are on track. I'm also out in the field answering questions and getting dirty, working with contractors on site and traveling quite a bit. My other role is as construction administration manager. In that role, I help lead the construction administration group and ultimately help improve our processes and mentor the larger office in the in quality control.
Matt GerstnerFantastic. Thank you guys for both being here. I know I've got uh decades of knowledge and experience sitting here in front of me. So we're gonna have uh we're gonna have a good conversation here
What Quality Means In Practice
Matt Gerstneras we go forward. Let's just kind of dive in and say, you know, what does quality mean on a project? And how do each of your roles support quality design and execution for the company?
Dan HottingerQuality really, when it comes down to it, is it is a really tight set of documents, closely coordinated with all the engineers that are on the project so that you know that everything is gonna fit within the building. You know that everything is going to come together in the correct manner, and you aren't gonna run into a whole bunch of problems out in the field on a remodel. Are you gonna run into things that you weren't expecting because you didn't take the time to look? Or in a brand new build, could there be things underground that you weren't anticipating that you might have to fix? Oftentimes that kind of falls into proper preparation in the beginning and then proper execution during the design. And then when you hand it off to construction administration, they are able to have that relationship with the contractor and go all the way through. But before we get there, you know, we try to make sure that we have multiple quality assurance check-ins during the design process to make sure that they're not going down the wrong road. They're not painting themselves into a corner code-wise, um, having to make major changes to the project at the end of the project that just delays everything and creates havoc on the project in general. You know, once you make that major change, now you have to re-coordinate everything as you're going through. So making sure it's a more of a linear process as much as possible as you go through, so that when by the time you're handing it off to construction administration, the better and more solid set of documents, the easier it is for a person like Bryan to make sure that the owner comes away with a really good experience.
Bryan DesmaYeah, I think uh quality, there's many aspects of quality in what we do in our business. I mean, there like Dan was saying, it's the quality of our documents that we're putting out so that we're we're getting information out in a manner that people can infer it and and and and and draw from it uh what needs to be done. There's the quality of what we put into the documents, what we specify, the architectural systems that we design. I mean, that's the basis of you know of what we do. That's a large part of it. Uh and then there's the quality of our service as a service industry.
CA As The Field “Sheriff”
Bryan DesmaWhat you know, what is the quality of of how we communicate? Are we responsive? Are we providing solutions in a timely manner? I mean, we want to uh provide value in that respect too. Ultimately, that's that's what we do.
Matt GerstnerWhat's the relationship then between CA and quality, Bryan?
Bryan DesmaThe relationship is uh is if we have the quality in and specify, we have the quality in our products and our systems. And like Dan said, we have the quality in the uh way we uh document the information and it's all correct, then CA takes it and then uh then ensures that quality is met in the field, right? So we're we're we're we're the we're the sheriff making sure that what's specified gets in the drawings. We're out there making sure that what's in the drawings gets installed in the field, and we're answering questions and and bringing that vision to the to the actual built environment to that we're that we're designing.
Dan HottingerWhen Bryan is talking about some of the specified systems that we have, and what if we layered on code to that, you know, during the design process, we meet with our code officials and we talk through different code scenarios and make sure that the documentation reflects those discussions so that we don't we don't run into inspection problems as we go down the road. Our specified systems are ones that we are that we know are proven that they are good, that they are quality, and that they're gonna last for the client. So Bryan and team, you know, when they're when he's saying they're the sheriff, they really are. They're protecting those code relationships that we have with our with our code officials and making sure that those conditions are being met, and also making sure that the quality systems are being installed that we're specifying.
Matt GerstnerWhich sounds like an extremely important role in the overall process of from concepts to complete a project. It's just there's a there's a lot going on here.
Bryan DesmaSo it's yeah, it is it's a very important role, and it's a it's a long part of the process. I mean, we may we may take uh you know a year to design a building, for example. Right. It might take two years to build it. So the construction registration part, you can imagine or the the evolution of a project and what happens just during construction, and and having a dedicated representative there will ensures not only just quality, but things just go smoothly.
Matt GerstnerYeah, yeah. I'd I'd have to imagine
Tangible Impacts Of Quality
Matt Gerstnerthat there's a certain amount of relationship building then too in the whole process as far as yeah. Amazing. So when we're when we're thinking about all of this, what kind of tangible impacts does quality have, you know, like on a project? What what what kind of tangible things are we looking at when we're talking about quality?
Dan HottingerIf we look at a high quality set of documents, before I even hand them off to Bryan, before we even get there, you know, making sure, like I had mentioned before, that that everything fits and is coordinated and is correct and has the correct systems in place and has all the code agreements that we had with the authorities having jurisdiction, being able to hand that off makes a much more a much easier construction process, meaning that you know, the detailing is spot on and it works with the specified systems. And, you know, the construction administrator out in the field is not fighting the drawings to get it correct. Oh right. So, so frankly, in many instances, it can make for a much smoother process in the field. It can save money because it's smoother in the field, and we don't we aren't constantly having to go backwards and reassess certain situations or certain details to see if we can make it work better or oops, this doesn't fit. What does Bryan and team have to do to make it work? So that's where a lot of those costs come in.
Bryan DesmaYeah. What the CA brings as far as quality to the to the project that's tangible. If I just think of what if you didn't have uh uh someone that was representing the architect or the design on the job? Because there are some firms and some projects uh that go out and they they don't necessarily have uh a dedicated person shepherding the project along. And and and if you think about it, you know, if there's questions or things that come up, you know, at best case, you're gonna have the contractor make some assumptions. Oh, okay. Right. And you're gonna hope that those assumptions are really what you intended as the designer, right? Right. Um at worst case, you're gonna have a contractor that is not gonna make assumptions, but is gonna make substitutions or change the design or do what they think is is best without having, you know, real any understanding of the initial design intent. It wasn't part of the meetings necessarily, and and really doesn't have the vision. They're they're just trying to go along with what they have.
Matt GerstnerWith the tangible impacts that quality has that you're just discussing, uh can you give any kind of project examples, like better or worse, like where you may have seen uh some some other company where they didn't have it, they didn't have someone on site. The quality wasn't there, or a project that we were what
A Client’s CA Experiment
Matt Gerstnerwe were on where we've got our construction administrator there and this is going really well.
Dan HottingerYeah, actually, we had a client a number of years back, probably about 2021, who decided that they weren't really in on the whole construction administrator process. So what they did is they asked us to keep the project architect on in that construction administrator role. And uh their idea was that it would be much more linear and it would be the continuity would be there and they'd be able to answer a lot of those questions. However, there are just certain things that CA folks know how to do from all their years in the field, you know, dealing with a contractor, dealing with, you know, stressful situations in the field sometimes, to the point where about 18 months into that experiment, if you will, with that particular client, they called us and said, you know, we'd like to have the CA people back on the project because I I think that they felt that it just went smoother and they were able to deal with things out in the field better.
Matt GerstnerThat's kind of an incredible, it's an incredible testament to the knowledge, the uh inner relationships that are developed, all of that stuff that happens with the CA folks as they're working out in the field. That's that's really kind of an interesting story that you just said there.
The QA/CA Report Card
Matt GerstnerSo one way that BWBR approaches continuous improvement, I'm aware of this one, is that we have an annual CA and QA like report card kind of thing that we do. So can you talk a little bit about what the report card entails and also kind of what you've learned over the years with it?
Dan HottingerSo one of the things that we've poured into our staff around BWBR is we we highly value continuing ed with our with our staff. So, but the thing is, is when you're looking at continuing ed, the question that leadership will come back and say is are we getting any benefit from this? So you kind of need to have a way to be able to quantify and say, yeah, we are, and here's how. So we were looking for different ways to do it. And one of the ways that we do it is through quality assurance. And when at the end of each project, a quality assurance reviewer will go into and log all of our problematic areas in that in that review. It might be the construction, it might be the the electrical coordination, maybe the plumbing coordination was terrible, maybe the detailing wasn't really solid. Now we get that out into the field, and it's nice because the the construction administrators take the time to do a report card. We use the same categories as we do for quality assurance reviews. We use this and so what and I just ask them to give me a just a letter grade, A through F. A, we're doing really well, F, we're failing. So, and the most interesting thing about it, Matt, is when you look at the CA grading, is it matches the QA grading? So if the QA is saying that we're having hardware problems, Bryan's teams out in the field are experiencing the same thing and they're reporting to that to us. So what we're able to do is say, okay, here's a problem. Here's it reinforced out in the field, saying, Yes, it truly is a problem. Now we can dump continuing ed time into door hardware to make sure that this is something that we can teach up within the firm.
Bryan DesmaIt's very interesting. I mean, even within the construction administration group, we do our report cards independently, right? Okay, we don't know what we're looking at it with each other. And when we look at it as a group after the when we present it to ourselves, there's quite a bit of alignment in different in different categories. And those are the categories that we focus on, like Dan was saying. It's it's it's it's a really good tool.
Matt GerstnerWell, it's just great to hear how that you've got the report card and you get the information, but you're utilizing that information, you know, and rolling that right back into the continuing ed, like you said, and we're looking for that constant improvement with all of our staff from the detailing to the hardware, like you mentioned, uh, to whatever it might be. So
Training, Forums, And Notes From The Field
Matt Gerstnerthat's that's that's a really, really important part, I think, of helping to create, you know, better employees, better architects, better designers.
Dan HottingerWell, and and also on top of that, Matt, though, I'd also like to say that that that lends itself to just the culture, right? So you have this, you have the CA people looking out for the quality uh once we get out in the field. We have our quality assurance people looking out for the quality of the documents. Our staff and our teams are know that there's an expectation of quality. So they work, they work to that point, and then we try to get it, improve it, and then out in the field, we maintain it. So I think that that is actually a really nice chain, but it it also is really lends itself to our culture of quality.
Matt GerstnerYeah, absolutely. And the fact that it doesn't stop once it's once it hits CA, once it hits the construction side of it, that we still learn from it. That's that's so good. So, and that just leads me right into the next question, you know, thinking about education. You know, I it we know it's a huge component, you know, in producing quality results. Can you talk a little bit about how both of you have approached education and training in your roles to help support better results for the firm?
Dan HottingerWe do the landmark sessions here, which is a lot of internal training for and continuing it for our for our emerging professional staff. Bryan and I, Bryan and I, at the beginning of every year, talk about some of the topics that we're seeing through QA grading and through the CA grading, and we come up with some topics that we want to talk about further. So Bryan and I develop that curriculum and we do the presentations together on those items. I know that I'll I'll let Bryan speak to it, but I know that Bry an has also worked very hard within the CA team to get that group up and running a little faster as well and get them all aligned and um like kind of streamlining their processes as well.
Bryan DesmaYeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, like Dan was saying, we have the the larger learning sessions that with the whole office that we had our landmark sessions and we have our forums where we present to each other on subjects. And then internally within the CA group, you know, I I lead a group where we talk about things that are very specific to our role. What are we running into on other jobs? Are we seeing things? What do we need improvement on? What do we need to educate ourselves on? Are the are the construction administrators, for example, do we do we have a good handle on the codes, on on understanding our code sheet? And how does the contractor read our code sheet and do they understand it? So we we can answer questions, you know, out in the field and we're we're educated on them. Uh you know, it's a constant process, things are always changing. There's always new technologies, and it's it's it's just continuous. And we have always new people coming in the office. It's right, it's amazing how much uh
Culture, Mentorship, And Asking Questions
Bryan Desmainvestment that we have at this company with education, and uh it's that's it's a big part of our culture.
Matt GerstnerI love it.
Dan HottingerMatt, one of the favorite segments of the forum, as Bryan had mentioned in the forum, one of the favorite segments for everybody is the notes from the field. And some of them are wonky problems you run into that are kind of fun, interesting stories, and some of them are hey, help us help you. Don't this is the same problem in every project. Let's try to work this out, would you please?
Matt GerstnerThat's great to hear. Yeah, that is honestly great to hear. And I was gonna mention it if you if neither one of you did. The notes from the field is one of my favorite sessions, too, because like you said, there's sometimes it's just this completely off-the-wall problem. You're gonna run into it one in every 400 projects kind of thing. And it's like, all right, this is a good one. Everybody check this out, or it's it is that continuous thing, yeah.
Bryan DesmaYeah, yes. And we do not discriminate on these on these land on these uh notes from the field sessions. It can be something that the contractors screwed up, and it can be something that we screwed up, yeah. So we we we discuss it all, we learn from it all.
Matt GerstnerLove it. Constant improvement. It's it's absolutely critical for everyone. So, are there any other ways that BWBR works to improve quality that you'd be willing to share?
Dan HottingerSo, one of the things that we also try to in engender at BWBR is just a culture where it's okay to ask questions. We try to push people towards if you have questions about how something is put together, go ask a CA staff. They've been doing this forever. They know how these things go together. If you have questions about spec, go to your spec writer. If you have questions about things, and what we try to make sure that everybody understands is you know, somebody taught you to do this job. Now it's your turn to teach somebody else to do the job. So not only are we trying to make sure that people are not afraid to ask questions, but also making sure that senior staff feels empowered to take the time to mentor that staff as well. That is just right there is
Relationships, Trust, And Closing
Dan Hottingerthe foundation of your quality.
Matt GerstnerYeah, that's absolutely amazing. And I, you know, it's something that uh I've I've even noticed, and it's something that I've kind of instituted. When we have new employees, we do a thing where we have social mentors and all that. And one of the very first things that I'll tell people when I'm someone's social mentor is if you have a question, ask me. Please come bring it to me. I'm like, I may not be the person to answer that question for you, but I guarantee you I know who I can point who I can point you to. I can tell you this person is absolutely going to be the person for the codes. This person is absolutely gonna be a great concrete shell person, kind of, you know, those kinds of things. So it's just, yeah, it's it's something. That we've done for a long time, and it's you kind of forget about it sometimes, about how good it is.
Dan HottingerI like to tell people on my team, I would way rather answer what you think is a really stupid question than have to stand in a trailer and explain to an owner why they have to pay more money to fix something because you were too scared to ask me a question that we could have answered and figured out.
Matt GerstnerAbsolutely. Absolutely.
Bryan DesmaI would say you know, the other thing is just it may sound kind of corny, but the quality of relationships we have with our contractors and our owners. I mean, we invest a lot in our relationships. And you know, it's it's uh it's different than it used to be, and it's different than maybe some other other folks' work, but we're not really confrontational, we're really solution-oriented, and we're not we don't fly in, you know, we don't have with our cape and our high horse and wave our finger around and say this, you know, we're looking for solutions is ultimately what we're doing. And and to get there, you have to invest in these relationships and have a certain amount of trust, and and that takes time and it takes effort, and there's there's quality within relationships, and that's that's a big part of what we do as well.
Matt GerstnerThat's absolutely incredible. The the quality within relationships and that trust building. That's I think that's that says it all right there. So, Dan, Bryan, this has been a great conversation today, and I know you've given our listeners a lot to think about and chew on. So thank you both for your time. Appreciate having you on here today.
unknownThank you, Matt.
Bryan DesmaYeah, it was great to be here.
Matt GerstnerAll right, and to our listeners, until next time, we'll see you on the other side. This has been Side of Design from BWBR, brought to you without any paid advertisements or commercials. If you found value in what you've heard today, give us a like, leave us a comment, or better yet, share us with your network. You can also reach out to us if you'd like to share an idea for a show or start a discussion. Email us at sideofdesign @bwbr.com.
