The Trend Report

Content + Thought Leadership with Adrian Leal

• Sid Meadows, Adrian Leal • Season 6 • Episode 163

Share episode

Send us a text

Join Sid as he and Adrian Leal explore how creating authentic content and establishing thought leadership can transform sales success in the office furniture industry. They discuss how content creation builds lasting professional relationships and personal credibility. 

• Building relationships matters more than product knowledge in our commoditized industry
• Take the product away from the sale to focus on authentic human connections
• How digital "social proof" influences purchasing decisions before meetings occur
• Creating content establishes you as a subject matter expert in your field
• Use passion topics rather than product features to differentiate yourself
• Why connecting sales strategy with mental health resonates with younger professionals
• The importance of consistency in content creation despite initial fears
• How thought leadership creates opportunities for connecting with the A&D community
• How the confidence gap holds back industry professionals from sharing their expertise
• Build a content "time capsule" that serves both professional goals and personal legacy

Connect with Adrian Leal on LinkedIn to continue the conversation and see his thought leadership content in action.

Resources:

 The Courage to Be Disliked: The Japanese Phenomenon That Shows You How to Change Your Life and Achieve Real Happiness by Ichiro Kishimi and Fumitake Koga - https://www.amazon.com/Courage-Be-Disliked-Phenomenon-Happiness/dp/1501197274


Connect with Adrian Leal:

Clarus - https://www.clarus.com/
Adrian & Co. - https://adrian-co.salesreach.io/main-page
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrian-leal-7a025862/Email - info@clarus.com



Connect with Sid:

www.sidmeadows.com
Embark CCT on Facebook
Sid on LinkedIn
Sid on Instagram
Sid on YouTube
Sid on Clubhouse - @sidmeadows
Subscribe to my LinkedIn Newsletter. https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/inside-contract-interiors-7298489501159460865/

The Trend Report introduction music is provided by Werq by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4616-werq License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Sid:

Hey friend, welcome back, or welcome to the Trend Report. I'm excited that you're joining me for today's conversation. I'm Sid Meadows, a business advisor, coach and longtime student of the office furniture industry. My goal is to share information that will help you and your business move forward each and every day, and I'm really excited about today's conversation, as we dive into one of my favorite topics sales content and thought leadership with my guest, adrian Leal, a regional sales manager at Claris. Hey Adrian, how are you today? I'm doing good, sid. How about yourself? I'm doing great. Thanks so much for joining me today. We had a really fun preview conversation a couple of weeks ago and this is literally like one of my favorite topics and I'm excited to dive in. But before we do, I always like to find out how people got into the furniture industry. So tell us the story of how you got here into Furniture World.

Adrian:

Sid, thank you so much for having me. First of all and it's a story as old as time I grew up just wanting to sell office furniture.

Sid:

It was my dream as a kid.

Adrian:

No wait, nevermind. Sorry, that's my script.

Adrian:

No like everybody else, I accidentally fell into it. So I went to a private school in Iowa called St Ambrose, which is about 35 minutes away from Muscatine, iowa, which is where H&I is headquartered. Now, when I was in school, we were being recruited heavily by John Deere, by Caterpillar and by H&I, and so when I was graduating I thought to myself, do I want to sell farm and tractor equipment? Do I want to sell some sexy office furniture? And I chose office furniture instead. So I got into the industry, started through HNI's leadership and development program, which is phenomenal, by the way. It is itself like a university for how to navigate this business and how to navigate this industry. They do a great job with that program and I loved it, and so that's kind of how I got started, and from there it just kind of took off.

Sid:

I enjoyed it.

Adrian:

And they've sent me down to central Florida to be the territory manager down there, got to meet a lot of great people down there and ultimately I wanted more. So I was ready for the next step and I ended up going to the dealership side. From there I went to go work for Herman Miller dealership at the time and I probably learned in Central Florida.

Sid:

Yep, okay.

Adrian:

Yeah, and I learned how to sell within a span of two years. What somebody would learn, you know, in five years just working at the dealership, and I'm sure a lot of people that work at a dealership will tell you that same thing. You learn a ton there. And then from there, life circumstances brought me back up to the Midwest where we moved to Minneapolis, minnesota, and I had the privilege to hop on with AIS, which at the time they were moving to that direct rep model from the rep group model and they kind of turned into a hybrid model. So I started with them there and I spent a long time with them. So I was with them for about six years and then, from there again, was just ready for the next step in my career. And here I am now as the regional director of sales for Claris here in the Midwest, back home in Chicago.

Sid:

That's great. Well, congratulations on your move to Chicago, and though our paths did not cross at AIS, I had already left when you came to work there, but our paths did cross because of AIS.

Sid:

That's how I met you, I believe, and through mutual colleagues or mutual friends. And so now here we are. So one of the things you mentioned was the training program that you went through at HNI and one of the things I will give kudos to every major brand out there. They do a phenomenal job at training people, whether it's on leadership or sales skills or product development whatever it might be right. The brands do a really great job because they have the resources to put together what I would call world-class training programs, and it's a great way and a great place to go and start, along with the other thing that you said, which is the office furniture dealer, because that's like baptism by fire. It's like, hey, here you are, you're going to be a draw employee for 12 months and then you're on a straight commission and you got to get out there and hustle. You really find out what sales is all about and how to get door slammed in your face on a regular basis, right?

Adrian:

100%.

Sid:

I am curious, when you think about your journey so far, what's been like one or two key takeaways from the steps that you've taken in your journey that you think have really helped to inform or to help you become the person you are today?

Adrian:

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question, sid. The number one thing is we work in a commoditized industry, so once I learned to take the product away from the sale and just really focus on having authentic relationships with people, whether that's on the manufacturer side, talking to dealer sales reps, understanding what the dealer sales rep is going through. These are people that are trying to make a living, that are out there cold calling, hustling and they're doing that daily grind. So having empathy for what they're going through and approaching them in a way that's it's it's human. I know what you're going through. I want to help you succeed as a human being versus hey, look at my greatest product that I have right now, now on the flip side, on the dealership side. What was one? At my greatest product that I have right now, now on the flip side, on the dealership side, what was one of my favorite parts is I got to work directly with the end users.

Adrian:

So you get to meet people. That, or whether they're facilities planners, cfos, ceos but you meet these people and there's motivation behind them. There's a purpose to what they are doing, and if you can figure that out, if you can get to what that purpose is and what truly is motivating them on this particular project and you can connect with them on that level. That truly sets you apart from being just a regular Joe Schmo sales rep at a dealership or manufacturer. It's like, oh, our product is the greatest because of this, our services rock because of that. So in my journey and you know, you asked two things, but the number one thing, and it's one of the most important things, is take the product away and focus on the human being you're sitting across from.

Sid:

So I think that is a very powerful point right, and from somebody as young as you. I think it's a great lesson that you've learned very early in your career, because, at the end of the day, people do business with people and when you survey people in our industry and ask them about sales in our industry, they all tell you it's a relationship sale. But what I find really interesting about that is how many of those people that say it's a relationship sale that lead with the product and they just they like vomit product features and benefits, right when, to your point, we are very much a commoditized industry and there's tons of competitors out there that have something similar or exactly like yours. And what's the thing that distinguishes? It is the relationship that you can build in your case today, at the dealer level, or at the specifier level, or in the case of of the dealer and when you were a dealer, the relationship that you can build with the local end user. Get the ability to reflect back on those relationships and the ones that really had the staying power that just like really stayed, whether they were colleague or customer or specifier or whatever it might be.

Sid:

And I'll just tell you a quick story. A couple of days ago, not a couple. A couple of weeks ago, maybe a month or so ago, my phone rings and I look down at the name that pops up on my phone and I I'm like got this huge smile on my face because it was a lady that I worked with, that was a designer, independent designer, and I was selling at a dealership. And this was when I lived in alabama, so this is a long time ago and, like, she just called me to check in like how are you doing? And man, it's just such a great 30, 45-minute conversation and those relationships. I just I mean I love what we can develop in this industry. But let's talk about I'm going to bring this a little bit full circle Digital is here. It's staying. Socials are here. In our pre-conversation you mentioned that we're in a digital revolution, so let's talk about that for a minute. How does digital revolution impact relationship building in your mind?

Adrian:

I'm going to answer that for you, sid.

Adrian:

That's a great question.

Adrian:

It's a topic that I'm very passionate about, but I want to get back to your point.

Adrian:

When you got that phone call and how excited you were because that's what keeps people in this industry and you hear this all the time it's like once you're in, you're in, you never leave, and I don't think I'll ever leave because of that, because of the relationships I've built with everybody that I've worked with and I've come across to, and somebody very young in my career told me that your net worth is your network and never burn bridges and always just continue to maintain those relationships with people, and it's really helped me in my career. But it's also helped create great friendships that, even though some of these old colleagues that I used to work with I haven't talked to them in years, I say it's been three years and I talked to them again. We pick up just where we left off, and that's why I do love this industry is because you have so many friends and connections that you just can't carry over if you were to switch to another industry. So just wanted to touch on that before I jump on it.

Sid:

Before you go to the digital revolution. I want to let's just stay here for just a hot second because you're on point right, network is your net worth and I mean it is so very important. And I think back about all the relationships that I have and those names that pop up. I talked to somebody yesterday I haven't talked to in a couple of years. I'd reached out to him and said, hey, let's connect. And we talked about retirement and all that kind of stuff and this is one of the reasons I love Neocon so much. I call them hallway hugs, right. There are two moments that stand out to me at Neocon. One of them was running into a dealer sales rep who I met when she was working at an independent rep. We sold AIS together and I haven't seen her in 10 years. And I saw her in a showroom looking at a table and of course I just busted up in there and interrupted the sales pitch of that person.

Sid:

But Google me, that's hysterical, don't do that, but we just had this great catch-up. Her name is Angie Embry, she lives in Austin and we just had the opportunity to really catch up for just a few minutes. It was one of the highlights of my visit there. The other highlight happened on Sunday and I'm walking down the street and I run into my longtime friend, steve Lyons, which I think you know, steve.

Adrian:

Oh my gosh yes.

Sid:

And Steve and I worked together at Hayworth back in the 1990s and we just got to be good friends and over the 25, 30 years of our relationship we just have always stayed in touch and stayed connected and I probably talked to Stevie about once a month or so, and so it's just really fun to see him on the street and I got a big hug from him and I took a picture, a selfie, with my, posted on my Facebook feed.

Sid:

My son saw it. He said Dad, who is that guy? And I grabbed a picture that I have over here in my bookcase of me and Steve when we were in our 20s, early 30s maybe. We were in London and I just told him the story of my friendship with Steve and I told him some of the things Steve had been through in his health crisis and how important it was for me to see my friend Steve this week, that week of Neocon, because last year when he was fighting his battle with cancer, I didn't know if I'd ever see him again, right, and so it was just so important for me to see Steve and to visit with Steve for a little bit and take that picture and capture that moment, and it just was interesting that my son saw it, but it's very much a deep reflection on the relationships that you can build because of this industry and because of what we do, yeah, 100%, and so glad Steve's doing well, happy and healthy.

Adrian:

I mean absolutely great guy Stevie if you're listening to this.

Sid:

We love you, man, so we're going to keep going. So let's go back to the question about being in a digital revolution, and thank you for letting me derail there for a second.

Adrian:

Yeah, 100%. This is a topic I'm super, super passionate about, because I've been posting on social media since COVID that's really when I got started getting into it, meeting with entrepreneurs and just learning how to do it and it couldn't be more relevant today in our industry. And I'll tell you why. Because every client that you're meeting with, whether that's a design firm, whether that's a dealership or an end user, what they're going to do is they're going to do what's called social proof. So, whether that's before or after they meet you, they're going to go check and see what your social media looks like.

Adrian:

They're not going to go to your website. They're going to go to your LinkedIn page, which may lead to your Instagram, which may lead to your Facebook. They're going to find you on social media and if you have zero social media presence, if you're not out there being the subject matter expert in your field, you will not be looked at as credible enough. Or, say, another competitor comes in and does have a social media presence. It can be a huge differentiator and it can actually be a reason why you may or may not win a certain project. So it's not going away. If anything, it's getting more and more relevant today, so I would highly recommend anyone in this industry that hasn't done it yet. Get used to just posting consistently on social media.

Sid:

So let me ask you I mean, the points you made are. I love them and I mean we are in 100% agreement there If you're not out there controlling the narrative and putting out content, your competitors are controlling the narrative, your competitors are doing it, but how did you get into it? Like you said, you started it around 2020. What was the thing that said, okay, I'm going to start creating content and creating video, because you took the leap into video, which scares a lot of people. I mean, what was that catalyst for you?

Adrian:

Honestly, in 2020, what we're all doing, it was COVID right. We had a lot of people. I mean, what was that catalyst for you? Honestly, in 2020, what we're all doing, it was COVID right. We had a lot more time on our hands.

Adrian:

And I've always been really passionate about sales and I always tell people all the time people like the golf, I like to talk sales strategy. That's just my hobby and that hobby's kind of turned into now. Public speaking, making videos. It's just something I'm really passionate about and I know that a career in sales can be so rewarding but it is so stressful and I was so passionate about just reaching back down to kind of younger sales reps and really showing them a way like the fundamentals of how they can create some sort of success in a sales career. So that was my original passion and I wanted to get the message out and I thought the best way to do that was to jump in front of a camera to start talking about random topics like presentation skills, how to generate buy-in.

Adrian:

I'm talking fundamentals here and I just started posting them on YouTube. I started posting them on TikTok and then on Instagram and on Facebook and then I got the courage to then start posting them on LinkedIn, because you never know with people you work for and how people are going to perceive you on LinkedIn. So I was doing it on my personal socials and then I finally did it on my professional one. It just kind of took on a life of its own from there and it's Sid. I'll tell you this, whether I have one follower, a thousand, five thousand, ten thousand followers.

Adrian:

I'll never stop doing this because I do it for myself. I get a scent like a joy out of this. It's like a rush of dopamine of getting in front of the camera, sending a message, posting it. It's just thrilling, it's exciting and I enjoy doing it. And another factor too, I start to think about I have three kids. So maybe one day my daughter is 16 or 17, 18, thinking about taking on a career in sales and she finds some of my videos online. So I kind of look at it that way as like a little time capsule for my kids, that maybe they'll find these sometime down the road when they're kind of getting into their careers.

Sid:

So I love that because I think very much, the same way you do about my kids, who are now young adults, that I am hopefully leaving them a gift.

Sid:

So I'll give a perspective. My dad passed away when I was 27 years old, and so he's been gone longer than he was alive, right at least in my life, and so I have very few memories. There's really no videos of him because video wasn't a thing back then, right, and so I think about the gift that this is my youtube channels, because I have a couple of them, right, even though I'm just posting this type of content, I think about my TikTok, and when I do post TikTok and those other things, they live there, and so I do think about the ability that my kids to one day be able to go back, even to their kids, right, and to share a little bit of me. So I think that's a really, really important legacy, if you will, that we are building by doing that kind of stuff.

Sid:

But I also think that it's important to understand what you want to talk about and why you want to talk about it, and you said you want to talk about sales. You want to reach behind you to help people that are younger than you coming up in and sharing some of the struggles and things which is really, really important. So how do you decide on content to talk about? Is it like a feeling, or do you have a list running, like I'm gonna talk about this, this and this? Like how do you decide what you want to talk about?

Adrian:

Yeah, that's a great question, Sid, and it's two things. One, it's a feeling. Sometimes I feel really passionate. It's like, hey, I need to talk about this because it's things that I've just seen. You have stuff that has been going on in life and especially if you're on social media, you see what's going on on LinkedIn, you see what's going on on TikTok, so you start to pick up on trends and what's happening, and so a lot of that is a feeling. So sometimes I'll jump on and I'll record and I call them spitballs and said I will. I will literally pretend like I'm in a podcast studio, like I have a whole crew, and I'm like all right, I'm gonna talk about this, I'm gonna talk about that, and boom, boom, three, two, one record and I just start spitballing on a topic that I'm really passionate about. So that's number one, yep. Number two yes, I do have specific topics that I want to cover, and it's all based on what I've, what I've recently read.

Adrian:

So one of the things that I wanted to do to elevate my content was to get new information, new knowledge, and the best way to do that is to read books. Yep, growing up, I hated reading. I'm not, I'm not sitting here and like I can read books now and I, you know, and I've always loved reading books. That's not true. I, my dad, used to punish us by telling us to go to our room and read a book. That was our punishment because he knew how much we didn't like reading.

Adrian:

Fast forward to today. I've found a new enjoyment in reading, and so what did I do is I'll take like two or three books. I try and read at least 20 to 25 books a year and I take extensive notes when I read. Like in every chapter, I take extensive notes, and what I'll do is if there's a topic within a chapter that I'm like, ooh, I can talk about this and it'd be perfect for LinkedIn, be perfect for personal right, for Facebook, instagram, and I'll highlight it blue Right, and then I'll put on my PowerPoint that I have running scripts on.

Adrian:

I'll say page 18 in my notes this is what I'm going to post about, and so typically when I'm recording, I don't have a lot of time to record. So it'll be like on a Saturday and I'll take four hours and I have a list of 20 topics. Maybe 10 of them will make them into my content, but 20 topics that I for sure have one, two, three bullet points and if you've seen some of my videos, you've seen some where I'm spitballing and you've seen some where I'm like number one, number two. That's how you know the difference of okay, this is a, this is a passion topic for him. Okay, this is a practical topic for him.

Sid:

So you've got a process that you developed over time to figure out how to create these videos and how to do this, and batch recording is what you just talked about. And then you take and you go and edit and you go and do right. So and people listening might just get overwhelmed at that, because batch recording and editing videos not for everybody is not for me. I do not do that, I tried and I suck at it. So for me, I'm a one take person.

Adrian:

Okay.

Sid:

Now I might record the video 15 times before I get one take, but very much along with you. What you said earlier was it's a feeling like I have. This feeling like this is a message I want to share, and a lot of my ideas come from reading, come from podcasting right, Listening to podcasts, because I'm a huge consumer of podcasts and so I did one of these the other day and it was my Taylor Swift video, and it was an afternoon walk versus a morning walk. At the end of four and a half miles, I'm at a pace of a little under 17, right at 17 minutes a mile, which is fast for old people like me, and so I'm sweating. I got my baseball cap on, I got my sunglasses on, but I just listened to one of my favorite podcasts, which is called oh my gosh, I just totally lost the name of it. It'll come to me in a minute. Oh, Finding Mastery is the name of the podcast with Dr Michael Gervais to me in a minute. Oh, Finding Mastery is the name of the podcast with Dr Michael Gervais, and he is a sports clinical psychologist and he's interviewing this guy who wrote a book about Taylor Swift and the lessons you can learn from Taylor Swift Whether you like her or not is completely irrelevant right the messaging.

Sid:

And so I was moved by what this guy said, and so I'm like I have to do this. I grabbed it, my phone, I took one recording and I'm like I like that one. So then I took another I'm still walking, mind you and so I do it Okay, Cause that one's great. I get home and I watch it and I'm like, okay, that's really good. It hit all the points right. I got everything in that I wanted to get in. And then I'm looking at it and I'm like, good, golly, Sid, I'm drenched in sweat as I'm talking, like there's sweat dripping down my nose on my shirt. My shirt is soaking wet, but I got it out and it did really well.

Sid:

And I think the raw and realness of it is what people really resonate with, because I'm going to call them curated quote unquote curated videos that are so professionally done. People scroll right by, and so I think being in the moment, having that feeling, creating the content, is so very important, and just do it, Get your message out there. But let's talk to the people for a minute that are like I ain't creating content. I have one that works from home upstairs. She is being forced in her new job to create content and she's hating every minute of it. Mind you, I'm talking about my wife, guys. So she had to post on LinkedIn this week and it's the first time she posted in a year and I'm like she goes yeah, I'm not a content creator. So what encouragement, Adrian, would you give to people that are hesitant about posting and you know to get out there and put their message out there? What would encouragement would you give them?

Adrian:

The best thing I would say, sid, is what's the worst that can happen? Yeah, like really truly think about what is the worst thing that can happen by you posting something on social media. And if you to pair my sales skills I like to pair kind of what I do with work but also with mental health stuff, because there's a lot of mental health issues that happens to sales reps because it is stressful, there's a lot of anxiety. So what I will say is stop caring about how you will be perceived, stop caring about what people will think about you, and just do it. And it takes a lot of courage to say to do that.

Adrian:

It's easier said than done. But once you start doing it, it starts to become a habit. Then you do the second video, then you post the next one, and then it just starts to become a ritual and you start to think to yourself man, why did I care so much about how this was going to be perceived? If you have a topic you're passionate about, make a video, post it. What's the worst that can happen?

Sid:

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I'm totally in agreement with you. So the Courage to be Disliked I believe you told me about that book when we had our pre-call and I am about halfway through listening to it. A phenomenal story, right, awesome, and lots of lessons there, and I think understanding that you can get content from a multitude of places you don't have to create it all on your own or come up with the idea on your own right Is really important. Books, podcasting, the radio, I mean wherever right, so many great places. But let's stay here for just a second and share with the listeners what is your definition of SME, because you mentioned that as an acronym earlier, right, and then tell us what your definition of thought leadership is.

Adrian:

Yeah, I'm gonna go with SME. This is called subject matter expert and it's very important, especially if you're posting content or if you are trying to differentiate yourself in your field and whether that's in our industry. But a lot of times when I talk about subject matter expert, it's usually when I'm talking to real estate agents, because everybody's a freaking realtor, right? Everybody has a real estate life. I mean, it's true, but only really 1% of realtors have success because they've been able to figure out this one thing, and that's. I'm going to become the subject matter expert when it comes to real estate, which means I'm going to learn all the trends that are happening right now and I'm going to educate all the buyers on my social media, whether that's LinkedIn, tiktok, right YouTube I'm going to educate people on everything that's happening in real estate. I'm going to educate people on everything that's happening in real estate. I'm going to educate people on trends, on current inflation rates, as many things that you can talk about and then have passion behind it. Then, when it comes to finding prospective buyers or finding clients, and then they social proof you. Then they go and look at your social media. You're not looked at as the subject matter expert, like this guy knows what he's talking about. He's more credible. I'm going to go with him. I trust him more.

Adrian:

Listen, I'm no sales expert, right, but I've posted enough and I've made enough videos within the last five years that I can be considered a subject matter expert when it comes to marketing and sales. And so that's all because of the work that I've done. It's because of the work that I've done, it's because of the content that I've posted. And so if you're at a dealership or you're at a manufacturer and you can't think about what to post about, start talking about the industry in general. Start talking about certain trends, whether that's work from home, hybrid, talk about markets that are hot, like verticals. You know, healthcare, education there's a plethora of subjects to talk about in our industry that you can just post about, and it can be generic, and you start to become a subject matter expert in this industry. So then when you go into your next meeting or give that next presentation, you're like man, this guy knows what he's talking about, or this girl knows what she's talking about.

Sid:

Because you've built that credibility, you've built that base, so a hundred percent, and I was writing a couple of things down that you talked about, and I think the real estate analogy is very important and on point. So you basically and I'm going to reframe this in my way right, create content on the topic that you're passionate about, not your product. Right, not your product, not your product, yeah, not your product. Talk about the trends, the things you just mentioned, like the trends in healthcare, trends in hospitality, trends in education. Right, talk about an experience that you had in a sales environment. Right, talk about being told.

Sid:

No, people like to connect with the human side of you, not the professional, but create content. Then that leads to authority, not the professional, but create content, then that leads to authority. Right, you're an authority in your space. Then you're discovered by people who are looking for information around the content that you're talking about. Then that leads to opportunity, which then leads to a sale. So that's the through line of how content creation can lead to sales, or I call them digital sales strategies, because it's real, I can tell you. I can tell you, probably, the number of people that have reached out to me that have either I've either given a quote to or I have worked with that said one of the most recently and I coached her for quite a while and she said I've been listening to your podcast, I've been consuming your content for some time now. I'd like to talk about working with you as my coach.

Adrian:

Yeah, 100%.

Sid:

That's not the intent of my content, but it leads to that because it leads to authority and to discovery. And again, don't talk about your product.

Adrian:

Let's stay there, sid, because you're spot on and a lot of people, especially my friends and even some colleagues, they've seen me post for years and they think, oh, are you trying to get you know Insta famous? Are you trying to get you know money off of TikTok? And that's not the goal. The goal, listen. Would it be cool for one video to go viral and start making money? Yes, of course, but that's not what I'm doing it for.

Adrian:

Just like you said, you're doing it because there'll be someone that'll approach you, whether that's a phone call, an email or direct message. Hey, love what you're talking about, love your content, would love for you to talk to my team, would love to just spit ball with you, and it just leads to more opportunities and it's helped me a lot in my career, like even when I was at AIS and even today with Claris, because of the content that I post. People now that I meet with you know whether it's a dealership or a design firm, even a school. They see my LinkedIn and immediately walls come down because they're like, this guy's posting content and he knows what he's talking about. So I have a different presence in the room because of the authority that I created, like you said right, because of me positioning myself as a subject matter expert in this field.

Sid:

And, at the end of the day, the people that are consuming. Like. Your goal here is you got to stop the scroll, whatever platform you're on, because most people scroll social media with the audio off. So if you're a video creator, you got to have a hook or something or something on the screen that makes them want to stop and turn on the volume or hit the unmute button. Right, right, but it's about just getting engagement, and nobody really wants to hear you pitch a product. No, they just don't want to hear you pitch a product. And we've spent a lot of time talking about video content. But before I go to my next question, I want you to go back and answer the question about how do you define thought leadership?

Adrian:

And, Sid, I'm going to answer your question with a question I actually want to. I want to hear what your thoughts on thought leadership are, because everyone's got different right and I'm really curious on yours, and then I'll answer yours.

Sid:

So this is not a podcast takeover, by the way so I don't answer, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding.

Sid:

So thought leadership is something I'm really interested in and something that I do. I never really thought about it that way A little bit of play on words there, but it is simplest form, in my opinion is you have a thought or an idea about a specific topic that you're passionate about, and then you share that with the audience, whether it's video, audio, written, whatever it might be and you share that, and that is leadership. You're leading in a category, you're leading a conversation about something, and so you have a thought and an idea and then you share it, which is leadership in the way. So that's kind of how I define it. How do you define it?

Adrian:

A hundred percent, sid. It's the same exact thing For me. I've always looked at thought leadership as just being a leader without having a title Correct and finding a topic that you're authentically passionate about and I always tell people that are in sales or whatever they are selling is find what you're passionate about and what you do and that resonates with clients, like when you're sitting with across from people. They can feel that passion. They know whether or not they're being sold to. So when it comes to thought leadership, find a topic that you feel strongly about. For me it is. It is sales and mental health. It's one and two right, because sales is hard and you go through a lot of mental health issues with sales.

Adrian:

So how do I pair the two?

Adrian:

Yep, how do I want to be a thought leader in this topic where I can share with you the blocking and tackling of how to have generic success in sales, but here's how to tackle the mind fuck that you will have when you're going through challenges in sales.

Adrian:

So over the years I've kind of paired the two In some topics, when I talk more on the mental health side and we talk about more kind of the brain and how to really focus on working on yourself and finding self-acceptance so that then you can be a more confident sales rep. Those are starting to resonate more and more with my audience than the standard blocking and tackling posts of like here's how to present, here's how to cold call People really, especially the younger listeners when you add that mental health piece to it, because it's what they're going through, there's so much stress involved and they want to make all this money and they don't realize the amount of work you have to put in. So that's exactly how I look at it as well, and I just find two things that I'm really passionate about. I paired the two and I just want to be a leader in that subject and in that space.

Sid:

So hopefully one day I'm going to have Cheryl Durst, who's the president of IIDA, on the podcast. And I asked Cheryl I think I've mentioned this before when I saw her at BIFMA. I asked her about what I believe to be one of the biggest challenges facing our industry today, which is getting in front of the A&D community. How do you get in front of them? Lots of people have tackled this and have provided content around it. Right, I've written about it, I've talked about it Specifically, I you know podcast shows about it, I've been on panel discussions about it. Right, it's a really big issue in our industry. How do you get in front of the A&D community? And I asked Cheryl this question and I said I'd really like to have you on the show to talk more about this, because if there's a design figure in our industry that is recognizable, she is it. And her answer to me was very simple how do you get in front of the design community? And she said thought leadership 100% front of the design community. And she said thought leadership 100. And it's about being discovered. Like it's being discovered because of the topic that you're talking about, because everybody's got some social platform or multiple social platforms they look at at least once a day, sometimes at night, whatever and you have the opportunity to be discovered because of your content by an interior designer that you would really, that really needs to know you and that you really need to know, that's working on a project and she sees you and then she reaches out to you. So there's lots of opportunity here that I think exists for people to get into the game.

Sid:

So almost my last question, because we're running out of time what do you think is holding people back from getting into being a thought leader and publishing content? Because, if you just use LinkedIn specifically, we don't have a lot of voices in our industry that are talking. No, we have a lot of people trying to post product pictures and sell product, but we don't have a lot of people really creating thought leadership. You could count them on two hands, right, and our industry needs more voices, needs diverse voices, right. So what do you think is holding people back?

Adrian:

This is a great topic to end our conversation on, and what's holding everyone back is this confidence that people have the knowledge and expertise and somebody can be much smarter than me, but I have the courage to post, I have the courage to put myself out there. They don't. That's the biggest difference is a lot of people today you know they can have the best education ever, but if they don't believe in themselves, it doesn't matter. You can go to Harvard, you can go to Princeton University, you can go to an Ivy League school and be the smartest person, but at the end of the day, if you don't believe in yourself, if you look in that mirror and you don't trust that person across from you, you don't believe in that person across that you're seeing in that mirror, it doesn't matter. All this other stuff doesn't matter. And so in a lot of my talks and a lot of my presentations that I do, I try and spend some time talking about how it all starts with you. It all starts with what's happening between your ears, because if you don't take the time to work on yourself, to work on your self-acceptance right, being able to accept who you are and figuring out what your strengths are, being honest with what your weaknesses are. If you can't do that, then you won't have or have the confidence to be able to post content. You'll be the ones posting pictures of photos and copying out and not putting yourself out there.

Adrian:

And, sid, like I said, it's not a lot. It's not that there's a lack of knowledge. It's not that there's not people out there that are experts. There are. There's a ton of them. I've met them in person that are much smarter than me. It's just giving them the confidence and the encouragement to just go and make that video, go and post, and I hope that what you're doing, what I'm doing, and other people in our space, I hope that we encourage somebody watching this today or somebody while watching a bit of content, to say you know what I'm going to. Just go record something, something that I like, something I'm passionate about, I'm an expert on, and just see what happens is the we get more people to do that, then we'll have more thought leadership, or more thought leaders in this industry.

Sid:

I love everything that you said and you're spot on. It's a great place to end it. I'm going to wrap it with a little bow that says have the confidence to get out there, push through the fear, because the first couple of times, yeah, it's going to be fear. You're going to be like, oh crap, that's awful. What are people going to say? Right, Whatever kind of content it is, but just remember that consistency compounds, and the more consistent that you are in creating whatever type of content that you want to create, you're going to get better at it.

Sid:

Please don't go back and read the first article that I ever wrote for one of the industry magazines. It was god-awful. Please don't go back and listen to my first ever podcast episode, because the growth in both my writing and my podcasting is phenomenal because I kept doing it. Just be consistent. If you need to learn, go and research about certain things, Because the more you do, the better you're going to get. Just like an athlete, the more you practice right, the better you're going to get at your chosen sport. So, lean in, be confident, push through the fear and then just keep doing it, because the payoff is going to happen. It just doesn't happen overnight, right? Spot on.

Adrian:

Sid I love that take.

Sid:

Yeah, adrian, thank you so much for being here today. I've loved every bit about this conversation. Again, it's one of my favorite topics sales and content creation, thought leadership and we drew the through lines and I hope everybody listening understood what we were talking about how creating can lead to opportunities that lead to sales. Adrian again, thank you, dude, so much for being here. It's been a pleasure to get to know you and have you share your insights with our community. If our community would like to get in touch with you, what is the best way for them to do that?

Adrian:

Yeah, linkedin's the number one. I mean you can find me on LinkedIn, you can search me. My profile's open, my contact information's on there. It'll show you, you know, even take you to my YouTube, my TikTok, all my socials. So LinkedIn is the best form.

Sid:

I will be sure to drop a link to his LinkedIn profile email address all that good stuff down in the show notes. Just remember, if you do reach out to him, let him know that you heard him here on the Trend Report and that's why I'm reaching out. Adrian, thanks again for being here. Thank you for joining us today for this powerful conversation. Go out there and make today great guys, and we'll see you again right back here in a couple of weeks. Take care everyone.