Birth, Death, and the Evolving Cycle with Jessica Sobey / ETS10

It's my pleasure to highlight one of my dearest client's of the Nurse Rx Community. Jess and I have been working together for over 18 months and are truly kindred souls.

Jess is an RN in Maine USA and after dabbling in a few different areas of health and nursing, including being a member of her hospitals infectious diseases team, she found her true passion in labor and delivery. She beautifully relates the experience of birth to so many transcendent experiences of life and her heart just sings when she talks about it.

In 2022 she made the brave decision to walk away from her job instead of waiting to be fired for her personal choices regarding the vaccine mandates in her state.  Heartbroken and wary from the exhaustion she was experiencing beforehand giving selflessly and tirelessly to her job, her patients, and her colleagues she witnessed so much unfold that left her morally and ethically at a crossroads, as many others have as well.

Sandra's Key Takeaways

• Life is a series of birth and death cycles that hold many magical moments, and incredible gifts if we are open to see them and receive them.
• The fall of the corporate health care system and the unveiling of the mistreatment and abuse of its workers.
• The hero identity and the difficulty of caring for ourselves when so much is on the line.
• Trusting that we will land when the world seems to be flipped upside down and you're being thrown into square one of life. 

About Sandra Payne:

Sandra Payne is an ex- Registered Nurse and Master Certified 
Holistic Trauma Informed Coach and the owner of Sandra Payne 
Wellness and founder of the exclusive Nurse Rx Coaching Program. 
After 13 years working within the traditional health care system and 
experiencing first hand the challenges that come with nursing, Sandra 
has a keen understanding of the heavy unrealistic expectations in 
nursing, the moral distress, and the stigma that keeps many nurse’s 
struggles with depression, anxiety, and trauma, hidden in silence. Out 
of this intimate understanding was born the Nurse Rx Program 
through witch women nurses learn and practice a host of skills and 
exercises to manage stress, process emotions, and heal trauma 
within a safe group collective of other nurses. 

Join the community of support - Facebook group Thriving in Nursing
https://www.facebook.com/groups/638818697054847

Connect with Sandra Payne here https://
www.sandrapaynecoach.com

Check out the International Association of Wellness Professionals Wellness Coach Training - https://iawp.ontraport.net/t?orid=91998&opid=28

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Transcript

ETS10 - Jess Sobey

[00:00:00] Sandra Payne: Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the end endless silence podcast, where we share the real raw and authentic experiences of nurses across our great nation.

And beyond my guest today is stepping into the nurse RX client spotlight. As a coach, I have the honor of getting to know my clients on a deeply intimate level bearing witness to their stories, their pain, their grief, and all their celebrations. It is one of the many gifts of being a wellness coach, and I'm excited to spotlight Jessica soy today.

She, and I met on the tail end of 2020 and have been working together on and off for the last 18 months. She is a kindred soul and I am so grateful for her trust to walk alongside her on her own unique journey through life and all its challenges. Jess is a mom. She's a nurse, she's an educator as well as a valuable member of the nurse RX ex sisterhood.

She has experienced a broad spectrum in her nursing career. And her true calling is any experience that really transcends and transforms people in their lives. I believe she believes that well. I also believe that empowered people make empowered choices and live better lives, where they can learn to care for themselves and extend that to the lives that they touch.

I cannot wait to dig in and see what unfolds Jess. I'm so excited to share this space with you today. Welcome to the. Oh, thank you. That was 

[00:01:15] Jess Sobey: beautiful and really warm mm-hmm in my heart. Thank you. Yeah. 

[00:01:21] Sandra Payne: And I, I mean that as a kindred soul, a kindred spirit, whatever you wanna say, , there are people that you come across in life that just.

Light you. And there's like a magnetism it's, you know, when I talk about like the yes. Feeling you get that with people. And you're one of those people for me from the moment that we met back then, when you were sitting on your bedroom floor, I , 

[00:01:43] Jess Sobey: I remember Lauren sitting. 

[00:01:47] Sandra Payne: Yeah. So tell us like let's kick it off and you can just share us share with us a little bit more about your story as a nurse.

Well, I just 

[00:01:53] Jess Sobey: wanna really quickly give a little shout out to Canada because, and the idea of kindred soul like that, that term for me came from Anna Green Gables. Like she would talk about her kindred souls, and I always resonated with that idea and I feel exactly the same about you and You know, all of the women that I have met on, on the, on the nurse groups.

So 

[00:02:14] Sandra Payne: but kindred soul is 

[00:02:16] Jess Sobey: 100% what you have been for me. So it's been amazing. So thank you for having me. Yeah, so my, my role or my trajectory becoming a nurse is probably different from a little different.

I mean, we're all different, right. But I actually didn't become a registered nurse until I was 34. So I had a, a bit of a journey before then. I. You know, I actually really grew up like not liking sick people, not liking being in hospital settings. I had a lot of I remember visiting somebody when I, you know, a great uncle when I was really young and he had a tracheotomy.

I remember actually like passed out in the nursing home. When I saw sputum coming around you'll be, I'll be happy to know that I ended up being a pulmonary nurse. That was my first job. So I got my fair share of sputum and got over that, but I definitely never thought I would be a nurse. I was much more interested in teaching.

I was really interested in history. I have an anthropology major from university and was really into sustainable agriculture. So kind of thought that that's where my trajectory would lead me. And I had graduated from college and unexpectedly was expecting to go on to travel maybe go to Haiti.

I had a, I, I was really hoping to go to Haiti actually, but found out on my drive home from college. My car broke down my now husband. Came flew out to Chicago, fixed my car. And I, several weeks later I found out that I was expecting and that was a huge shift for me. I wasn't really in my plans.

So shortly after graduating from college, I became a mom. Let me back up. I became pregnant. And my pregnancy was was really what shifted me into really becoming passionate about health, I guess. I, I can't say that. I, I can't say that I was. I mean, I was athletic, but I wasn't probably the best to my body.

I didn't care too, too much about health. I cared about other things before. I cared about the environment, so I kind of ate well, but not really. And I didn't really know a lot about health before I got pregnant, but I got pregnant and you know, quickly realized that going to Haiti was probably not the best plan for me.

And decided to become a teacher. My father was a teacher at a small private school and I was able to get a job there. And that was my plan. I was gonna be a teacher, great hours to be a mom, and it was gonna work out. My husband and I, we got married and sort of on this little trajectory of life shortly after my decision to keep my pregnancy and to have a baby which was.

It was the choice, you know, like there was a choice in front of me and I, and I was really excited and clear on my decision to, to, to choose, to have to become a mom. And I felt passionate about having a choice for that. I I actually ended up having a really high risk pregnancy and found out I had a bad cornea at uterus.

My baby had implanted on a, on the septum of my uterus and I basically like, was bleeding. Now if I was pregnant now I'd probably be in the hospital, my whole pregnancy. But then they were just like, oh, you won't go to term. This will be awful. They just really inundated me with all of the awful things that were going to happen to me any minute.

Not, not knowing when they were gonna happen, but they were going to happen. And It was really frightening. And I was really young and I just, all, I, you know, my, my parents and my husband were like, well, you have to go to the best doctors. And I did, and was just really inundated in this medical system.

And and a lot of fear and really kind of hopeless. And, but day by day, I continued to be pregnant and I kept working cuz that's what they had you do. Then they didn't have me on bedrest or anything. And anyway, it, it was a, I, a friend of mine had connected me to this new up and coming little place in my, in my, the town that I live in of Portland, Maine.

And it was called the Ballard house and it was the freestanding birth center and it was midwives and doulas and a totally different way of looking at things. And I just went to check it out and somebody said, congratulations. And I was like, oh my God, Nobody has said congratulations to me. And from that moment on it just like shifted my brain and, and, and shifted my pregnancy.

And of course my pregnancy still could have, like, I have seen so much I know that my pregnancy could have turned out to have had all those horrible things that I was told were going to happen, but it didn't. And I was surrounded by just amazing women, really, who educated me, supported me, held me.

And I ended up going a week past my due date and having a great delivery. I was able to, I, I stayed in the high risk, so I had this medical model, but I also had this like kind of alternative model all the way along and was able to birth at a, at a hospital that was. That was like a step down hospital, so it wasn't super high, high risk.

And it was great. I had an amazing experience, a super empowering experience was really lucky that breastfeeding went really well for me. And I just was like a born again person. And I was like, this is my passion. I fell in love with my own experience and then just wanted to do everything I could to make other people's experience of birth positive.

And I got really, I became a doula. I got really into childbirth education and got really into this birth center in my city and, and started a doula group with a bunch of other nurses, excuse me, doulas. And had this whole thing going and it was great and attended births at the hospital and at. Home and all over the place.

And loved it, but actually started to say like, okay, it's not just all this wonderful stuff. There is a lot of, there is a lot of, there's a lot to learn about birth. It's not all like, and I was lucky and I, I ended up seeing some really challenging situations as a doula that I felt like I wanted to know more.

I wanted to know, like, I, I wanted to become a nurse basically. Like, and I had never thought that before I'd never even considered that I would want to know more or that I'd wanna have a more clinical approach to birth, but I did. And I ended up during that time I had another child. I, I waited tables a little bit, which is also like being a nurse.

So I was like, oh, I'm good at multitasking. And making sure everybody got, has what they need. But anyway, it was a long, it was a long trip because my husband worked away. And once I decided to go to nursing school, I, you know, I had to, like, most of my sciences were not nursing sciences. They certainly weren't the pharmaceuticals and the I didn't, hadn't taken bio and chemistry and all that stuff that I needed.

So kind of a long road to go back to school with two young kids, my husband worked away and it was, it was just a lot. And I was also doing doula work and the more that I saw, even at the hospital, I realized like, I think I really wanna have a broad spectrum of nursing experience. Like I felt like when things weren't really bad in the hospital, even though nurses, didn't always like, they didn't have a skill set beyond.

The obstetrical part. So I was really lucky after I graduated. I got a job in a med surg floor, which is a pulmonary unit, cardiac telemetry. We had a event unit and a intermediate like step down care. And I honestly have to say like my first day of being a nurse on my own, I was like, oh, everybody needs a doula.

Like the little men with C O P D need a doula. Everybody needs an advocate. Everybody needs like somebody just to like, listen to them and love them and like, Oh my God. If you're, if you're hanging somebody's antibiotics, like you can, you can change their world in 15 minutes just by your presence with a patient.

And I freaking loved it. I, I loved, I loved every part of nursing and I was not expecting that. I was expecting to like, just freak out about sputum and cry and wanna go home. And like, I was just like, oh my God, I love people. I even love sputum. And I had one patient that was a long term patient that happened to live in the hospital.

And I Fell in love with just the care for him, you know, like, and, and he, he was a very sick person, but, and tons of sputum. And I, I fell in love with like, just caring for him and, you know, his family and they were quirky and funny people, but I just, I, I felt like, oh my God, I had no idea that I had the capacity to be so present for so many people.

And then it just started to like, ring true with some of the stuff that I had grown up with. I at home like a middle child. And I, I was just really a sensitive kid, I think. And I think being a nurse, like you don't need to be like, it's very helpful to be clinical and to be wicked astute and really quick on your feet.

And those are really good skills. And I don't have those skills. And there's nurses that do have like the really like attentive nurses that are like, they know everything and they're charting is like on time and they never get out late. And they're amazing. And those are amazing nurses. And I love those nurses.

My real skill as a nurse was like, Just, I could relate to almost everyone like it was, and it was a joy, like my days would just fly by because, and even that part of the stress of like the only thing that stressed me out really was like, I didn't really care about being late on meds. They were like, oh, or antibiotics, or late, sorry, any of my former antibiotic, you know, but I, it just like that kind of stress didn't get to me.

It was like, did I spend enough time with my patient? Was I, and of course you never are able to. But anyway, I did that for a bit. And then was I actually applied to labor and delivery in my hospital and didn't get the job. And I was like, wait, I what, I didn't get the job. Like, what do you, what, like, I've been a doula and I've been a nurse and I'm like a critical care nurse now, or not critical, but like step down care.

And at my hospital we have like special care and then mediate care. So anyway I just couldn't believe I didn't get the job and, but the manager was like, oh, well, you should apply again. We gave it to, you know, like a young, cute little thing and I was like, okay, apply again. I didn't get it again.

And I was like, okay, what the actual, and then I applied again and I was starting, I was really starting to get burnt out on the respiratory floor and my sister-in-law was a nurse. And thank God she was the nurse, cuz I, so the third time I didn't get the job and I, you know, I sat for the interview and I thought it went well.

And I thought I was saying all the right things like, oh, I'm not PI eyed about birth. Like I know birth can be amazing, but it can also be like horrendous and awful and full of the worst kind of despair you ever see. And like I thought, I just, I thought I like covered all the bases and like was really eyes wide opened about labor and delivery.

And you know, they were like, well, you didn't seem Matt excited about it. I was like, what? But my sister-in-law encouraged me to reach out to the manager which I didn't wanna do, but she just was like, you should just call and see, you know exactly what they didn't like about you. And I called and I had this really good conversation and the, the The manager said, you know what, why don't you come do a night shift next week?

And we'll we'll just like, just come follow the nurses and like, see if you get along with them. And we'll, we'll just, we'll see, we might have another job opening. So I was like, okay, well, I also decided to do a cleanse that week and get off of coffee for like, which was really stupid. So I, I end up like detoxing from coffee on the night that I'm doing my night shift with like my dream job.

I'm green, like I'm green. Like the thing in the back of you, like I'm green, I'm so sick randomly. There was only one patient on the board and would where like the busiest hospital in the state. So that was UN uncommon. I was so sick and the nurse was like, oh, just go take a nap. We always do that. You can go take a nap.

Well, I ended up sleeping for like seven hours of the night shift, which ended up working on that floor for 10 years. No one takes a nap like that does not happen. I wasn't intending to spend this long story on like the backstory, but I, I woke up like an hour. Like I probably woke up at like five in the morning or shift ends at seven and kinda like roll.

Back to the nurses station where they all were, and everybody was just kinda like sitting there like, oh, how do you feel? I was like, I definitely feel better. Thank you. I'm so sorry. Like I went in and the, the patient was sleeping too. And I was like, well, that's it. I'm never gonna get this job. And I'm, I leave the hospital in the morning and I'm calling my stepsister.

I mean, my sister-in-law I'm like, oh, stamp, believe it's so stupid. She's like, what did you do? I was like, I don't know. Like, I'm never, I can't even believe this. Like, but I still just wanna like crawl back into bed and go to bed cuz I'm sick from not drinking coffee. And I just wanna. Die. And I think I'm gonna do hospice nursing, cuz that's what I'll have to do.

And I can't, I can't believe this. And I got a phone call like 45 minutes later and they were like, they loved you. They want you to work with us. Like you've got the job. And I was like, what? So who knows how that all happened? I've never ever taken a nap working on that unit any other time. But 

[00:15:38] Sandra Payne: lot, a lot of can I just draw frame?

I wanna draw frame because we were, when we were talking before we were like, you know, about landing and like, you know, manifesting your dreams and like when you finally. Let go is when you land. And you're like, I, I bombed this so big time I fucking slept. the whole slept they're they're not gonna want me, like, they're not, this was my chance.

And I blew it and you're like, defeated, let go, I'm gonna work in hospice and you get the call. And it's like, I got, I got goosebumps again, cuz I'm like, this, that is it right there. Like, so you can see there's proof in your own pudding that when you will land you will land. Yeah. 

[00:16:16] Jess Sobey: Right. Like, and I would always tell a new nurse kind of, I, I think this is the stuff we tell other people. Right. And we forget that it does happen in our own lives. And that's like, we talk about it every week. Right. Like it it's so true and it, and it was true and I've had yeah. 

[00:16:35] Sandra Payne: Proof. So let's like let's fast forward a little bit.

Yeah. To So when I met you at the end of 2020 in, in some despair about what was happening. Yeah. You know, you're now a, a labor and delivery nurse. You've got this dream job. You speak about birth in the ways that I've never had the the beautiful opportunity of hearing about it in that way.

Like I've experienced, I've had three kids on my own, so I've experienced birth and I've, you know, witnessed it as a nurse as well, working in the NICU. That's not generally the nice, pretty birth. Yeah. But but nonetheless, it's like, you, you talk about birth as, you know, this experience. And so maybe let's start there.

And then we'll kind of shift into like when we, when we met and like some of the, like the current challenges. But, but I also, you know, I, I, when you talk about birth, it's. It lands as far as like the passion and the the gift of being a nurse. And so I, I wanna gift that to the listeners because it's really yeah, your, your experience with being a labor and delivery nurse 

[00:17:36] Jess Sobey: mm-hmm oh, it's gonna make me cry.

I don't even, I'm like so emotional, but yeah. My experience of watching a, a woman and her, you know, whoever's with her, or, you know, and if she doesn't identify as a woman that too, I I've been with people, but my experience of people and it's actually even, you know, parents that are surrogate parents that are present or in the next room at a birth, like the, my experience of what birth is, is really It is a micro co I mean, I've used this exact term, but I, I experience as like a microcosm of life.

I think it's like any Rite of passage that historically we've had. I mean, of course birth is a huge Rite of passage that has been traditional in every culture ever. Right? Like that's how we have survived as humans. You know, and it is something that some people you know, just do very passively and it's like, it just happens and they they've done it 13, 15 times.

And it's, it's just a. There isn't a lot of ceremony to it. It just kind of, they, it, it's very, just, it happens and their culture doesn't stop for it to happen. It just is a part of it. But I wanna take that back cause it's not really where I wanna go. My experience of birth is that it is one of the only opportunities that we will ever have to experience the entire human experience in a day or an hour or three days.

It there is hopelessness, there is loss, there's pain. There's like unbelievable love. I mean, even some of the most, you know, pained human beings that I have cared for. I mean, I've cared for women that have had handcuffs on them while, you know, In the hospital, I've had care for women that are losing a very desired pregnancy.

If cared for women who are giving up a child that they're about to birth and they have other kids at home, like these experiences that people have to be witness to it, one is just

to the emotional part of it is insane to be witness to the physiological, like the impossible fact that a human being can come out of a vagina is, I mean, every single time I have seen it, I've seen thousands of births and I'm always like, how's that gonna happen? You know? And it just does. And it's mind blowing.

I mean, it's absolutely a miracle and it makes no sense. And and it, and it works. and it almost always works. And then that we have the magic to,

if it doesn't work, we have the magic to be able to like operate on a woman and like deliver her baby that way for her and with her. And like that is also beautiful and magical and like not any less magical than, I mean, also incredible that we have the ability and the skill to have anesthesia, to allow somebody to be open, awake, be able to hold their baby, be able to like see their baby come out of their own stomach, that we have the knowledge to be able to sew that woman up and to give her, you know, the antibiotic, all of it.

It's just the world shifts every time a new baby's born, like there is a shift and you can feel it. And it is, it is. It is miraculous and it is exactly the same shift that happens in death, which, you know, not all nurses have seen, but most have, and it, it is exactly the same and it can be as empowering or as traumatic as a death can be like a beautiful death can also be empowering for the, for the person passing and for the person and for the family around.

And so can birth, like birth can really, I mean, I have seen it for myself. It changed me, but certainly I know that the, that the patients that I was with they changed, they're different. Every woman everybody's different, you see a baby born and you're different and it's so easy to forget, right? Like it's a, it's a, it's a second.

And the oxytocin is in the room and everybody is feeling it. And then it's done and you go out and you're like, oh my God, I'm starving. Like I wanna cheeseburger. And you're talking about. You know, who knows what with your nurses, but like, in that moment, you're just like, this is the coolest thing and watching the labor progress and that strength and, you know, I, I, I love unmedicated bursts.

I won't lie. It's my favorite because I love watching the buildup, the physiological buildup of the power and the, the beauty, like these women just become like their ragged, but they're like also just like crazy beautiful. Like, it's like the kind of beauty when you run a marathon, it's that it's just insane.

And then they transform into these like monsters. They're just monsters, like how, what happens. And then in a flash it's done and they're cannot even believe like, you know, and you're just like, I did it. I did it. and the disbelief that they just did it, but then like, of course, how amazing and normal it is too.

Like, of course this baby was meant to be here on my chest forever. Like, and that's what it is. And I don't think that there's a person alive that hasn't, that has felt that has had that experience. That like, when they think of it for themselves, they're like, oh yeah. Even those women that have 13 babies, I mean, often those women that have 13 babies, they are like, can, can, like, they can bring it back to me and I I'll sleep now, you know?

And there, and there's beauty in that too, like, yes, mama sleep, cuz you got 13 kids to deal with at home. Like yes, sleep I'll hold this cute little one for you. Mm-hmm but even then, you know, and you know, it's incredible. So I could talk about it and I think it is, I just, I could talk about it all day and I just, I think it's such an opportunity.

And when people get empowered by it. And when they find their power and they find, and I, and I don't, and the power doesn't have to be that like, oh, I had a natural childbirth and now I'm empowered. The power has to be like, oh, you know what? Like I've had a traumatic history and like, I don't want to feel pain.

And so for them to find the power to say like, no, I choose not to do that. I mean, that is also equally as beautiful. Like even the labor that an adoptive couple has to go through to do all the laborist paperwork of getting there. And that fear of like, what if the, what if the birth mother changes their mind?

Like there is a transition that happens in becoming a parent that is so incredible and cool and unique and super common too. So anyway, I, I, I could literally, I love it. 

[00:24:37] Sandra Payne: My mind is just like, first of all, it was going through all of my birth and then it was going through different experiences I've had as a nurse on both ends of the spectrum birth and death. And what kind of sparked for me was like, when, when a life comes into this world and when a life leaves this world, it's like at that moment in time, I feel like it is a complete alignment, like in the, in the universe.

Like, you know, when people say like the stars align, it's like in that moment, the stars align like something opens and a life comes. and lives lives leave. I mean, it's happening literally every moment. So, so possibly we are living in that like pure anyways, I'm going a little bit out there, but, but you're not, but it, I mean, like, it feels like this, this pure alignment that we actually have access to all day long.

It's not just in your own experience or as a witness to these events because there is like this miracle and it is a miracle and it's like, it's kind of magic the way. I mean, it's one of the ways that I have built an appreciation for my body is looking at it and being like, I created life. Like I created life.

[00:25:55] Jess Sobey: It's definitely the same with death where like, You know, and right. There's so many ways to, to pass too. There's so many ways to be born there's, you know, but there's so many ways to, there's so many more ways to die. Of course. But it is there's that moment of like, wait, are they wait?

Do I hear, are they PA have they passed they're past? And you know, it can be really long and slow and just like birth, you know, like a labor can take weeks and days really like it can, or it can be like, oh my God, I was fine. My water just broke and I am dying right now. Now I'm gonna have baby, like, you know, it can be very quick.

And I, and I think birth can death can be like that too. Of course. But there is always. Transition moment where it's like 

[00:26:43] Sandra Payne: holding your breath, you ha you 

[00:26:45] Jess Sobey: have to stop. Yeah. And it, and it is, and it literally, you have to take a breath because that's what it all is. Right. Like it is all about the breath. It is that first breath and that last breath and there's something right.

And then every breath in between. Yeah. And it's incredible. 

[00:27:03] Sandra Payne: Mm-hmm . Yeah. And it just, I think it just represents that. Cycle that we go through, like it's, so it's such a clear example of the, the cycle of, you know, birth and death and everything in between.

And, but we actually go through those cycles all the time in our life. Right. Like in our, in our lifetime of birth and death of different things. Right. Like in different ways in different forms. 

[00:27:24] Jess Sobey: Yeah, I also had a job on the special infectious disease team. So I did that as well. That was a, we had a, we had a team at my hospital.

We were in a Ebola center. So we had a team that was prepared for a pandemic. This has been for years. So I was on that. I kind of like geek, I love like, was excited to plan for the zombie apocalypse, whatever I was like, ready for it. Love, love, learning about diseases and whatnot. So that was a side thing that I had.

However, before the pandemic, this is well before the pandemic, there was some changes happening in hospital policy around just the flu shot. Always it was an option to get it or not to get it. And it became, it was becoming not to be an option. We were getting that, that That was coming up.

And I, and I just knew that for me, the flu and for lots of reasons that I won't get into here, the flu shop was not an option for me. And medical exemptions in were maybe not gonna be a thing. However, they ended up being a thing. But I sort of saw that coming down the pike and right. Like, I feel like empowerment, like knowing what you need to do for yourself and what's right for you.

And, you know, I think I've made it kind of clear, like choice and, and knowledge are really important. I think people should know as much as they can about what they're putting into their bodies and, and, and make really clear choices based on that. So I foresaw that I might not have a job if. Was to decline the flu vaccine, 

however that turned out to be okay. But I really started to have a shift in like, wow, I don't have as much authority here as I, as I as I thought, like I, things might change for us at some point. So I sort of playing with that idea, just holding space for it and kind of looking at other alternatives for like, well, where else could I work?

And I did get another job outside of the hospital that I worked at that did not have mandates at this point. This was, you know, before, again, before the, before the before the pandemic then in March we, the pandemic happened and I was actually really, I mean, I don't wanna say excited, but I, I was excited.

Like I was, I felt very knowledgeable. I felt like, oh my gosh, I know about PAs and I can fit test people and I can do all this stuff. And I was excited to be part of a team. And like, I, you know, we kind of hearing the news and like seeing it and like, wow, this could really be something. And but actually what happened in my hospital was, was there was some really disheartening things like, well, if this isn't, if this is, you know, like we weren't allowed to wear masks and we weren't, and it, and it just didn't like things weren't making sense to me at all.

We weren't allowed to like tell people if they had taken care of somebody who. You know, if somebody, if a patient had been on the floor and then they tested positive, like we weren't contacting the nurses to tell them that they had been exposed. Like we weren't allowed, you know, and everybody, you know, we were kind of going around the hospital.

We were setting up COVID units. We were helping people, Dawn and off their, their PA we had PAs at our hospital. So we were very lucky because we were this Ebola center we had, we had a lot of PPE. We always had a lot, we still do. So that was really tricky because we were like limiting what the nurses could have.

And I felt like, why aren't we protecting our nurses? And I really was very upset with that. And then it just it just really bubbled outta control. And people were getting, you know, they, they weren't accepting, they just weren't taking care of the nurses and they weren't taking care of the staff.

They weren't taking care of the house cleaning. They weren't taking care of anybody. And I was really. Morally distraught. I was also working three jobs at this point. I was doing the labor and delivery. I was working at a outpatient center for infusions and I was working on the S I DT team, which was the infectious disease team.

And I was working kind of over time and

nothing was aligning, nothing felt right. We were also my hospital. I know in Canada, you guys are all unionized, I think, but we are not. And so my hospital was also transitioning to a union to being a union hospital, and there was a big vote. There was a lot of drama. There was a lot of push and pull, and I was obviously had to like have a big political stance about that.

So I was very involved in the union movement and ended up really butting heads with my manager. And really that who had been a friend of mine and who actually, it was a new manager, but she had been a woman who had she wasn't my manager, when I first got hired to labor and delivery, she had been my mentor.

So excuse me. It was kind of devastating to start to feel like somewhat betrayed by the system that I was working in that I had sort of found cause to love and to be like, oh, well it's okay. That we're, you know, like I was really turning a blind eye to some of the medical things that were happening.

And some of the things that I felt like weren't right for patients, because I was getting so upset with what wasn't right for nurses and it got really mixed and really. I really, I was just devastated and I, and I walked away. I, I declined getting the the vaccine and the mandates were, were really, my state was one of the first dates that I had a mandate, so not, and we don't have, there was no medical mandate.

So even though I had a medical exemption, I couldn't take, I couldn't, they weren't taking medical exemptions at my hospital. Even if you had anaphylaxis, they were saying, you need to be. In the hospital and we'll give you the shot and we'll have anesthesia there. If they need to intubate you like crazy stuff.

And just anyway, I, I, I, a lot of the nurses that made the same decision as me they waited and got fired. I decided that like, I've never been fired from a job and I just had to walk away and it was the hardest thing I ever did. And you know, and it sucks. Like, I, I am heartbroken, but I feel really, like, I've always just felt like we have to be in some empowerment around the choices we make for our self.

And I have no problem with other people making the decisions. I, I have support decisions. I, I, I, I want people to have to feel good and the choices that they're making and I want people to feel empowered and strengthened and like safer. Like if you feel safe, I want, I want that for you. I want everyone to feel safe because we all do better when we feel safe.

Like I know that. And I you know, I didn't feel safe anymore. I didn't feel like I trusted the hospital system to take care of the nurses. I felt like there was a lot of betrayal. I started sort of like seeing things that I couldn't believe, like I worked for eight years without getting a raise like didn't and maybe it was six years.

I'm sorry. I exaggerated that we didn't get raises. Like the price of milk is $4 and 69 cents for a gallon of milk. And I was making the same amount of money that I had made, you know, eight years before and new nurses were coming in, making more money than, than me. It was just crazy. Like the, the system was so messed up in the hospital and I think we can all attest.

I worked 14, 15 hours and wouldn't go pee. I mean, legit, like wouldn't have time to go pee because there would be nobody else to watch. You know, all, most of our patients are electro continuous monitoring and, you know, I've had bad experiences where like somebody was watching my patient and their patient and another patient when I would go pee and I came back and the baby's having a huge D cell and the nurse is in another room because, you know, she had to go to her room.

I, it did not feel safe to leave a computer screen. It did not feel safe to leave your patient. It not feel safe to get food. There was no. And then, you know, and then of course, while we, now we can't walk, eat at the desks, so you couldn't eat, you couldn't have water. You couldn't, you know, it's just like, where, what am I, what am I doing?

And yeah. Yeah, I, yeah, so I left and

it's been hard and it's, it's sad to leave something that you truly feel you have a calling for and, and forget about the politic, like, feeling like, oh my God, what do all these doctors who I know? And I know they loved me. Like, what do they think of me now? Do they think I don't care about public health?

Do they think, you know, it's, it's, it's been traumatizing to reckon. It's not traumatizing. That's not the right word, but it's been, it's been hard to stay and something that I really do believe in fundamentally I believe that people should just have choices in their body always. And. and those choices have consequences, right?

[00:35:57] Sandra Payne: I think where it lands too is, you know, it ties so closely to what we were talking about as like the role of nurses in with our patients of empowering them, you know, not taking away their power, making us the expert, making us the decision maker, but empowering them with information with choice.

And that is, I believe a very fundamental part of nursing. It has always been for me. And to see that aspect Kind of, it's been kind of thrown out and the trust, I think is the, the erosion of trust, I think is the fallout of taking away people's right. To choose. And of course this is a difficult topic, right?

What I want to hear is how this has impacted you because standing in a position of making a choice with a lot to lose you know, also.

Because this is the, the language we use. There's also a lot to gain from standing in your truth and standing in alignment with what is right for you, but also a lot to lose and that grieving aspect the grief and the loss and the betrayal and that erosion of trust that comes with betrayal. It has a huge impact on us as we are.

We are human beings and you know, a lot of what I'm witnessing it is trauma. It is trauma because at the essence of trauma is feeling unsafe. And what you have just talked about too, is how, you know, you want for everyone, just like you want for yourself to feel safe. We all do better when we feel safe.

So when we are. Pushing people or manipulating in some way to put them into situations where they're forced to make a choice that doesn't allow them to feel safe. That's trauma and betrayal is trauma and discrimination is trauma. So we are, we are in the middle of a significant cultural, systemic trauma.

And we, I think it's so important that we acknowledge that because it's impacting us all in different ways. And when you, when you take action in your life, No matter what role you play and you impact somebody else's feeling of safety. That's not something to take lightly because that is a difficult thing to overcome.

We've all experienced it to some degree in our life. Right. But everyone over the last couple years has felt elements of being unsafe. No matter what your choice and beliefs have been, right? Yeah. Percent. Yeah. 

[00:38:33] Jess Sobey: So, 

[00:38:33] Sandra Payne: so tell me, Jess, you know, you've walked away from, from your dream job that, you know, you worked hard to get to and it was passionately aligned for you. Yeah. And it's, I know it, wasn't a easy decision to do that. And I'm curious, like where, like where does it go from here for you?

Where do you think? 

[00:38:53] Jess Sobey: Yeah. I'm curious to find out too.

It, sorry. You know, I, I, I do have a job nursing it's, it's a job that is fulfilling in certain ways and it is I can certainly go to the bathroom whenever I want to and eat at my desk and have really sweet interactions with with people that are just. Amazing and precious. And I, and I, and I love it, but it is certainly not my calling and it is a lot of headlights involved.

So, but it's, it's, it's sweet for now. And it's allowing me to, cause I did take a little time off, off, and that was, I really felt like I couldn't land at all. And for me, I just needed to, you know, I think I needed to have my feet a little bit on the ground. Yeah. And, and just sort of see things. So I, I am really considering doing some sort of nurse advocacy whether it is, you know, I, I know I could be a doula again and, and the.

Requirements for doulas are, you know, again, that's an, an individual choice and a patient would hire me and they would know my reality and they would do what feels right for them if that worked for them. I know a ton of people in the, this, my town and my community. There are places in the states where my medical assumption would probably would, would be fine and would work.

There are. I I'm not exactly sure. I also have really high dreams of creating something new and different that other people are also doing. So what I'm mostly trying to do is align myself with people. You know, I think at first I was like very kind of competitive and wanted to like, not like I just kept feeling like I can't do what they're doing.

Oh, Sandra created this great thing, but like, I can't do that. Or I can't, I could be a doula, but like, I can't do that. Or I could be a nurse advocate. I, I got a couple private nurse jobs for, for families. And I loved that. Like, but I was like, I can't do that just happened. You know? So it's some, there's some form of creating.

Like I, I have a big ball of clay and there's like, Some shape to it. Mm-hmm yeah. The shape has the shape has branches, for sure. Like, I, I, I'm very interested in birth and I'm very interested in death and I'm equally interested in other transformative experiences. So whether that's being a nurse advocate and working with people who need to navigate the healthcare system, which is literally falling apart and in front of us mm-hmm, , you know, and I'm not, you know, I talk to my, I mean, all my dearest friends at the hospital, it's hard to sometimes hear, but it is imploding.

It is, it is imploding at mm-hmm and of course babies are still being born and it's can be safe, but it's also like not, it's not good. And. You know, the hospital is hemorrhaging money and they, you know, nurses are making more money right now than they've ever made. And all of this money that they said they couldn't give us a 20 cent raise.

And now they're paying nurses $500 to just come in extra on top of time and a half, you know, it's like, oh, you did have money. Oh, there was money for this. You said there wasn't, but there actually was money to pay the nurses. Like it's very eye opening. And I, and I guess there's a big part of me that just wants to say like, as much as I am so sad that I'm not delivering babies every day and getting to be that magical player in a really beautiful experience or a really hard experience or whatever the experience is for a patient.

I'm not sad to walk away right now from a system that right. Like I wanted to work within it to maybe make some positive changes. And we were talking about this earlier, like, okay, that didn't work. I couldn't change. I couldn't change the medical centers. Like I, I couldn't, I couldn't make every birth.

Amazing. And I couldn't make every nurse get my, although like the nurses are making more money, so maybe that my union worked out. But you know, there's like, I'm interested in the communities in my neighborhood. 

[00:43:04] Sandra Payne: the, the, the, the sentiment of like, whenever one door closes, another one opens as nauseating as that might be when a door is closed Angering.

It might be all the things frustrating anxiety provoking, all, all of the things. It is, it is true. And like, you know, it's okay that you haven't landed, you know, feet firmly planted and know exactly the path that you're taking. I think that's the kind of the beauty of, you know, how we talk about square one of life and when you know, stuff happens and it throws you back and taking your time to really.

Move through this, this chapter without rushing and just, you know, putting a bandaid on it or stuffing down what has happened. And the experience that you're going through is like, it's really important. And it's really, I'm transformational for yourself to pull, to pull yourself into that alignment as you do move forward, you know, and just circling back to.

when, when we were, you were talking about the experience with your the, the labor and delivery job and when you fell asleep on the shift, right? Like, you know, just what I, what I framed in that moment is like, when you surrender and you let it go and you really let it go as easy as that is to be said very difficult to be done.

But when, when that moment arrives for you is when the door will open. It's, it's just, it's this natural cycle, right? Like there is a death right now in your parts of your career. And so what's gonna open on the other side is, you know, just yet to be birth 

[00:44:37] Jess Sobey: well, and as I truly feel. Most people that are going through a birth, they do much.

I mean, some people are do or can really do it independently. And that's a cool thing, but I'm a people person. And like having the coach, like having this sisterhood of women that

okay, like, okay, this is where you're at now. Like this isn't gonna be where you're at tomorrow. You're not gonna be here. You're not gonna be stuck at four centimeters forever. Oh. But seven centimeters feels a lot worse than, than four centimeters, but you're right. Like then you get to the bird. Like, I, I do have faith in that and I do trust it and I do really value.

I'm very lucky, fortunate to have this time. And to, you know, I'm not making nearly as much money as I was, but I'm, I, I, I'm safe with my money situation and I'm supported by a, by a pretty awesome partner in that sense but he doesn't honor, like what I'm actually going through. Like, he doesn't understand what it's like to have a job where you're so intimate with other people every day, like literally holding somebody's life in your hand and then being taken away from that.

I mean, it is, it is shattering to my personhood and it's. It's also like, wow, it's, it's been this experience. Not just with you, but with all of the women, but I mean, a lot of the, sorry, the routines that we do, like they're, they are my, like they're, you know, and sometimes they get frustrating cause I'm like, ah, I'm still don't know, but like, but I do and I'm getting places and I, you know, I, I know that I don't not wanna work.

And I, anyway, I reached out to her and she immediately was like, oh, you need. To you need to talk to Sandra and I'm like like one more person. That's gonna be amazing in my life. I've told you this before. Like that's great. But also like, I don't know, but like have it, the fact that I don't have to explain what it's like to not pee for 12 hours.

Like there's not one nurse that doesn't know what that's like or to like, oh my God, they want me to do the stupidest charting. Like, how do I chart all the stuff I just did? I can't can't chart that. Unhitable, mm-hmm, not, you cannot chart what you do in a day as a nurse and to not have to explain that to somebody, 

Like we, but to have a group that's like, you don't have to I mean, we can all just commiserate and like, I don't have to have been, you know, a flight nurse to know how hard somebody worked to become a flight nurse.

And to know, even though her trauma is so different than my trauma, you know, the things I've seen.

So billions of people in the world, like we are so lucky to see all these unique and awful, terrible things that happen to people. And it is heavy. We are holding it. And we cannot do it alone and we need each other and not being in the hospital. I've lost that group of people and I, and, but I found another one and I, I just I'm so endlessly great.

I am just endlessly grateful for every bit of it. And they'll just also do a plug for like, you know, who else stays up all night watching Netflix? Like, I know there's other people that do it, but there's not other people that do it and then work and like save lives the next day.

So thank you for, for making it real. And then also like for all the little things and all the big things, I mean that, I think we can talk about real big life stuff, but we also like, can talk about sputum.

Yeah. There 

[00:48:17] Sandra Payne: is like a. Unexplainable magic again in, in the groups of nurses that that have come together through this program. And you know, you were one of the originals, like one of the OG OGs, the OG nurser. And you know, it's been like, it's been quite a journey for me, but you know, when I think about nurses, it's like that this is like very heavy work.

That nurses do the, the general public, hasn't a hot clue what nurses do and what they go through. And it's downplayed. A lot of us are silenced, told not to share, told, not to talk about what it's like, and. , you know, I think what the group offers when it boils down to it is a connection in a safe container.

It's like, mm-hmm, , this is where you can come and you can just lay it all out on the table. You can talk about wherever you're at, celebrate yourself. You can commiserate, you can all share those experiences. Like you don't have to explain what it's like, cuz everybody gets it. If you've been a nurse, even if you've been to a nurse for six months, you know what it's like?

Like, you know, there is the whole range of experiences. With human beings and it is a blessing. But it's also extremely heavy. And particularly, you know, as you were talking about like being sensitive as a child, like particularly as a sensitive person or an empath, like there, this, this is, this is really hard work.

And so, you know, stepping into this as a coach for nurses is like, you know, I feel like I'm, I'm holding all of that with you guys too. But then also in my effort is really to create a space where you guys can unload and you can share, share the load. And it's funny how, like, even though she might be holding part of what.

What you're carrying, because you're sharing about your experience. So now she's holding a bit of it. So it's lighter for you, but by her holding yours, it actually becomes lighter for her. And there's just this, it it's really magic because, and you know, there is, it's not magic completely because there is like neuroscience between what happens when we're.

Yeah. I mean it with there's science to back it up, but there's also just the witnessing of, of this beautiful human connection that we experience as nurses. And we can give back to each other. So yeah, 

[00:50:37] Jess Sobey: that's the thing. And nobody can give it back to you like a nurse, right? Like, I don't think that there are people that are better at listening and, and, and helping you process and, and holding space.

Because as nurses, we all know too, like, and you can't change somebody's situation, really like you, you can only hold them really in it. And. You can't change the reality, right? You can, you can change the experience. Mm-hmm so that's what my experience has been here too, is like, the reality is the same.

Like I have lost a lot. That's my reality. But right. Also my experience is like, yes, I am gaining things. I am gaining friendships. I'm gaining ways of coping. I'm gaining ways of thinking about myself and ways of thinking about nursing. 

[00:51:25] Sandra Payne: Well, you know, as, as my, my ele teacher, she's just got all these little nuggets, but she always says you'll always have as much time as you need. So you know what, whatever, we didn't have time there, whatever was lined. For you over the last, like, you know, as I was thinking back, like, it has been 18 months since we, since we met.

And there's just, you know, it all . Yeah. But then at the same time, it's like, it's been 18 months. So but it feels like there is, there's still so much to come. Like we, you know, where you're at, where you're at right now. I'm at where I'm at right now. It's like, you know, fast forward a year from now three years from now.

Like there's so much to come, hopefully. You know, we, I guess we, oh for sure. We really don't know how much time we have, but at the same time, like, let's make the use of the time we're given. Before we go, could you share, like, if you were to talk to your. 35 year old self that was getting into nursing.

What would be like your top advice for 

[00:52:28] Jess Sobey: her?

My top advice would be take better physical care of yourself at work. I know that sounds really,

I did not drink water at work. I did not go to the BA. I mean, I really didn't. I just always put my patient, like in all of the things that needed to be done and I didn't know how to didn't take breaks at all. Like I was, I just felt like if I'm not there, if I'm not like doing all of it all the time there.

I think I didn't realize like this idea of being a hero, kind of like how that fed me, uh, Literally fed me. Like I didn't need, I didn't feel hungry at work until I got home and I'd be like, could bar, you know, I was like peeing in the parking lot and like, barely, like I would just come home and like house a, you know, a whole kitchen full of food and like it just, and then I would like say, well, I don't, you know, I would, I would be wasted on my days off.

And so I think if I could change anything about the way that I

about my nursing is it would be to just take better self care. I just couldn't. I couldn't figure out how to do it. I felt like I was not a good nurse if I took a break and I just, it really wasn't until my last two years that I was like, and really getting involved with our union actually organizing and just being like, no, we need to take breaks.

And like, yes, sometimes I might miss a delivery because I have to take a break. And if I, if the only way a system is gonna allow me to do it is like at this time then I have to walk away. I have to say like, yes, somebody else can be there for that half an hour. It's not my responsibility. Mm-hmm . And that we do not owe the hospital.

We owe our patients and we owe ourselves. And in between there, we don't owe a broken system that can't support enough nurses on the floor. We don't owe them our health and we don't owe them our time with our families, like to come home and just like, not even be able to talk to my kids. So I didn't see all day because I was stuffing food in my face or just exhausted, or just wanted to like watch Netflix that isn't why I became a nurse to like, not be a good mom.

Mm-hmm . So I think, I think that, and to have you know, confidence in my ability to learn new skills, I think I had a lot of insecurities of like, oh, I, you know, the skills are like, find somebody who's good at it. And buddy up with them, if you can learn everything you can. Never know when you're gonna need it.

[00:55:21] Sandra Payne: I really wanna just honor you for like, owning that piece of like, wanting to be the hero or needing to be the hero. Cuz I don't think it's talked about enough of how we push ourselves. Yes. There is like these expectations. There is this idol in nursing that we strive to be like and we push ourselves, but there is also, I think a part that we hold in ourselves too of like needing to be the one.

I know I can, I can really resonate that with that. I can remember specifically an incident of an, a younger nurse who I didn't really fully trust. And she kept going over to my patient's bedside. I was in a NICU, so it was like a tight little pod. Right. And she kept going over to my. Patient my baby and and adjusting things and I, and I snapped baby

Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I snapped and I was really rude. And somebody called me on it and, and that's like, it's, it's hung with me because it's not who I am. Yeah, but I think we do, we take like, Such pride in our work and ownership. And there's those expectations. And we carry a lot of these patterns of perfectionism and you know, needing to be seen as the one that has it all together who can figure it all out.

Like, like all of that shit is just such a heavy burden to carry of all of those expectations on whether they're coming from the system or employer or colleagues or from within us. But it's like, you know what? I hear you as your your advice to your younger self is like, you need to take the Cape off sometimes totally.

And eat and pee and say no. And like, you know, and I, I feel like even, you know, your, your decision to walk away from your job is like, you know, taking off that Cape in some way like that, there is, there's an element of that. Of, you know, I don't know if you've considered that piece of like, you know, giving up that ownership and like that pride and that need, it's almost like approving 

[00:57:17] Jess Sobey: that we get into.

Yeah, no I haven't thought of it that way actually. And and I, yeah, that's it. I haven't thought of it that way. And it's, so it's actually a really poignant thought and I have to think more on it because yeah. I've been humbled. I've been like, oh, I'm like the hospital didn't fall that like,

I, I have gotten some really nice like, oh, we misuse, but like hospital didn't stop when I left. And yeah, and, and. And that's okay. Like, but yeah, taking the Cape off is like, okay. It is time to take care of me. And I think also just, you know, just reflecting on my own life, like being a young mom and then going to school, like it, it, I have always been giving to other people.

And a lot of that is avoidance of taking care of myself. I ha it is very easy. And I know so many good nurses that are all in the same boat. Like they don't, we don't, we're not, I mean, some of us might be super like awesome workout people, or some of us might be super awesome, like housemaker or artists, or we, we might have all these other side parts, but we don't always like holistically kind of hold space for our Just really taking care of ourself and taking ownership of, I don't know, I'm babbling now I can feel myself losing it a little bit.

I'm that? no. Well, yeah, we, you know what I'm I'm saying, like I, yeah. 

[00:58:45] Sandra Payne: And we'll, we'll just seal it for I, I we've been talking for a long time anyway, so it's like I can yeah. 

So this has been like a lot, I mean, To unpack, you know, to ask you to unpack like, kind of your, your, your story in a, in a short little nugget of time although I know we could talk forever and someday we will you know, at a bonfire with like sleeping bags under the stars.

I know that day will come and and I look forward to it because this it's really just truly it's, it's such a pleasure to be with you. I, like I said, in the beginning, there's like a there's. A connection that is undeniable, there's a magnetism. And I just love hearing you speak and hearing your perspective and then bouncing.

And it's, you know, I think it's, for me, it's a real reflection of myself and just what I see in myself and what I'm missing in myself is like, that's, I think our whole human dynamic too, of and part of what really shines in group work. But I, I really just, again, wanna honor you for being here for sharing your story, for sharing your truth for sitting in your muck and being willing to go through everything that is being thrown at you or thrown for you, whichever way we wanna say it.

And just, you know, leaning into the uncertainty and the difficulty that is inevitable in life with this. Capacity to trust that eventually your feet will hit the ground. And that this work you are doing for yourself is so freaking honorable and important because when your feet land, it's going to be in complete alignment, it's not gonna feel like you're sacrificing any of yourself or giving away any of your power.

You're going to be in that space of, as you take steps, no matter what it looks like, and it'll change, it's not gonna be the same forever either. Like no matter what you choose. Now, or in six months, it's gonna change. That's just life. Right? That's the cycles that we were talking about right. In the beginning of birth and death and how it shows up in so many different ways in life.

So I just, I'm so grateful for you for our relationship, for our friendship. And you know, if we could cheers, I would say like cheers to everything that's yet to come. So thank you so much for being here. 

[01:01:03] Jess Sobey: Thank you. If I could say one word that would just sum it up would obviously be Namaste, which is like the light in me.

It's just a reflection of the light in you. And like, I am so honored and, and really want to just thank you for giving me this space. 

I personally want to thank you for taking your time to listen to this podcast. It is my truest honor to sit with these nurses and witness them, tell parts of their story. We as human beings have a deep need to be seen and heard, and this is my way of helping nurses in particular. Find their voice. 

We are sharing our truth. Not may not always resonate with you, but I'm guessing. If you're still here, that something has rung true for you in this podcast, our stories, offer healing and create connection. Two things that we as nurses need as we navigate the jungle of a healthcare career. So thank you for being witnessed. And if you'd like to share your story on the end, the silence podcast, be sure to reach out. When we can come out of the shadows and into our light we can create the change that is needed and when we do this work together we are so much stronger thank you for listening