The Glass Rainbow, Henry Thomas Bosdet

Henry Thomas Bosdet was born in Jersey on 7 January 1856, after spending his early years in the Island he moved to London around the 1860s.

By age 17 he was a student at the Royal Academy.  Bosdet’s seven year training at the Royal Academy was broad and included life drawing, fine art, architecture and glasswork at a time when Pre-Raphaelite art had become the accepted style. John Everett Millais was a founding member of the movement.

Bosdet later became the life drawing teacher at the Royal Academy.  In the late 1800s he started to delve into stained glass window design.  His stained glass windows can be found all over the world. 

Jersey is very lucky to have a number of windows, designed by Bosdet, in Jersey churches.

Discover the legacy of Henry Thomas Bosdet with former Art Curator, Louise Downie.

Tune in to explore local light, art and legacy, all in one listen. 

To support the work of Jersey Heritage you can make a donation here.

The Glass Rainbow Trust is a charity, Celebrating the life and work of Henry Thomas Bosdet.

Transcript

The Jersey Heritage Podcast: The Small Island, Big Story Sessions

The Glass Rainbow with Louise Downie 

Perry (00:02):

Welcome to the Jersey Heritage Podcast,

Mel (00:05):

The Small Island Big Story Sessions.

Perry (00:08):

You are listening to Mel and Perry.

Mel (00:11):

In today's episode, we're stepping into a world of light and color to explore the remarkable legacy of Henry Thomas Bode, a jersey born artist and stained glass master whose work illuminates churches in public spaces across the island. We're joined by Louise Downey from Jersey Heritage to delve into Bode's vision, his techniques, and lasting cultural significance. So welcome to today's episode, Louise. Hello. Thanks for coming along. You're very

Louise (00:39):

Welcome.

Mel (00:40):

So, could you give us a brief introduction as to who Henry Thomas Bode was and how he came to be known for his stained glass work?

Louise (00:48):

So, Henry Thomas Bode was an artist living in the Victorian period. He was born in Jersey when we think he was born in Jersey, in parade gardens, just opposite the hospital, although his father was a ship's captain. So there is a slight question of whether he was actually born on the ship, but registered at his place of birth later. We don't quite know that. His mother died when Henry was quite young. His father remarried his sister-in-law. He re remarried his sister-in-law. Wow. I know <laugh>. And so that, that obviously sort of close family links across the, the families and the family lived in Bode's early years in Jersey, but then moved to London. So Bode was at school in London, brought up in the city, and he went off into schooling as an artist at the age of 16. Went off to learn to become an artist, but pretty, pretty soon afterwards, actually in his, in his twenties, became a teacher, art teacher and eventually rose to be the, what was then called the curator of life drawing at the Royal Academy.

Louise (02:00):

So the Royal Academy was the most prestigious art school in London at that period. And Bode was the teacher of life drawing, which was one of the most important skills and techniques for, for an artist to have. And you weren't actually allowed to do life drawing until you spent quite a considerable time learning the basics. So this was kind of, you know, the, the summation of your, you know, the, the peak of your teaching was life drawing. So Henry Thomas Bode was the life drawing teacher, and whilst he was the life drawing teacher there, artists from London or and further afield would come to visit the schools and would look at the student's work and would basically occasionally sign off the students' work as approved by that artist. Wow. So you, you have some drawings by some students that are not only signed off by Bode as the teacher, but also for example, by millet as the visiting, visiting artist at that time.

Louise (03:04):

So yeah, I really, he was a really good teacher. His life drawing skills were pretty amazing. And then in the late 18 hundreds he delved into stained glass window design and his first design was actually in Guernsey for a Guernsey church. So he did use his skills as a life drawing teacher in creating stain glass windows and the way that stain glass windows worked. They have to be designed, usually starting small and then getting bigger as, as designs get approved and so on. Until he got to the stage where he was designing stained glass windows all over the world, his windows in obviously UK, in Bob Betos, all sorts of far fun pace around the world. So he became very, very accomplished at it. And we're very lucky that we have quite a few windows designed by Bo de in Jersey Churchy. Wow.

Mel (04:02):

How are these stained glass windows made? Do we un do you know the process?

Louise (04:06):

So the process is, it starts with the drawing. So the drawing goes to the manufacturer who lays it out on a big table and pinned it down. And then starting from a corner starts to lay out pieces of glass in the right shape and the right color. Sometimes those are treated beforehand with detail painted onto them, which is then fired. So they're laid out working from a corner and then lead put in between each block of color until the whole window is filled, still on top of the drawing below it. Then like cement kind of putty is wiped all over the top of the window and the reverse of the window to set the, the letting and the glass together.

Mel (05:01):

Bit like grouting.

Louise (05:03):

Bit like grouting? Yes. A bit like grouting. Then that's kind of cleared away. And then a kind of white powder is put on to dry the grouting and kind of again, act like a, a seal across it. You can actually sometimes still see some of that white in windows today and then it's installed. Wow. Very carefully <laugh>.

Mel (05:26):

So with the colors of the glass, are the colors like, do we know much about the process in terms of how they make, 'cause I would imagine that unless glass is like blown to be a certain color and they mix fragments of color into it, or is it done like that? Or do they paint it

Louise (05:42):

Your first first one so that they, the glass

Mel (05:44):

Is blown to that color. Exactly.

Louise (05:47):

And then so they have in the studio, they will have a huge range of pieces of glass, of particular colors. So the artist will specify what they, they want in terms of color and then they will try and match that with what they've got, or occasionally have to blow new glass at a particular color. And then occasionally if there is like further detail that's got to be painted on top of the stained glass or etched into, that's all fired on as well. So it has to go into a like, almost like a pottery kiln, but it's a glass kiln to be fired onto it. They'll do things like paint onto the top of the glass and then scrape away so that you can get like no shape, that

Mel (06:34):

Texture.

Louise (06:35):

Yeah. Yeah. So in some of the windows in Jersey you can have a look. We had a look, I think it was ard. We were looking at things like grass is paint on and then scrape off to get the wow, the, the shapings.

Mel (06:48):

So it's basically a collaboration of artists coming together to do this. You know, you've got overseas, it's, it's bode's vision, but the people that are actually making these glass windows, they're artists in their own right. Yeah. Because they're sculpting things and they're painting and they're etching. It's incredible. Yeah. Like, and this was all happening in like the kind of like the late, the later part of the 18 hundreds. Right? So that, that process would've been quite long. It would've taken ages to make

Louise (07:13):

These. Yes, absolutely. It would've taken at least a year to go from start to finish on making a stained glass window. And it involves, as you say, quite a few people. 'cause You'll get different specialists in different areas. So you'll get a specialist in color, you'll get a specialist in painting, you'll get a specialist in acid work. You know, so,

Mel (07:33):

Oh, mind blowing. Mm-Hmm. What an amazing, what an amazing process. Mm-Hmm. Literally masters in their field. Mm-Hmm. I actually visited recently someone Juan's Manor. Yeah. Yep. They had an open gardens and they have like a little chapel on the, in the grounds. And we were looking around and I was looking at the stained glass windows 'cause they were so intricate and beautiful. And I, and I did say to the gentleman, I was like, correct me if I'm wrong, but are these are these bow days windows? And he said, yes, Madam <laugh> well spotted <laugh>

Louise (08:03):

Well done, Mel, well

Mel (08:04):

Done. And I said to him, oh, I had no idea that, that they, they, these were here. And then he knew a lot about the history. I can't quote him now 'cause I don't remember what he said, but I just remember them being really striking and actually recognizing, 'cause he's got quite a distinct style.

Louise (08:18):

He has, he has a very distinct style. He was a lover of the pre-lit. He knew millet. So you can see that a lot of the lyte stylistic techniques in his designs, you know, his figures are quite sort of long and language. Lots and lots of flowing locks. Yes. And locks. Lots of kind of aquiline noses. And I actually saw a photograph of Bode in later life fairly recently. And I thought, Hmm. Quite a lot of the Jesuses looked like Bode <laugh>.

Mel (08:49):

Really? Yes. So you recommend a little bit of self-portraiture going on in there. I think

Louise (08:53):

There's a little bit of self-portraiture, but easy, easy model for you <laugh>. Yeah,

Mel (08:57):

Absolutely. Wow. So cool. So was stained glass always his primary medium or did he work in other forms of art as well? Obviously we've touched on his teaching career, but in terms of his own self-expression he

Louise (09:09):

Did do some oil painting as well. So there's a <inaudible> at St. Xavier's church, and there's a couple of paintings in Oil By Bode, I have to say that they're not his strongest. I think the kind of oil paint almost restrained him. Mm-Hmm. Whereas when he's working with a pencil, he's much more free. I think the oil paint actually kind of holds him back in his expression, which is quite interesting to very kind of see that. Yeah. Yeah. So it doesn't quite translate as well in that oil painting.

Mel (09:47):

I always find it really fascinating when you can, you can really tell by someone's art and their, like their creative outlet, how various different, like people obviously they like to explore with different types of, of equipment paint, but it's really interesting to see how, how someone's expression works really well, like in watercolor for example. Or in this case glass. Mm-Hmm.

Louise (10:10):

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Mel (10:11):

Which is incredible. Yeah. So do we know much about his process in terms of how involved he was with the actual process? 'cause Obviously stained glass, it's quite a complex procedure.

Louise (10:20):

Yeah, I And you actually, he worked with some stained glass window manufacturers. I mean he worked directly with them, but he wasn't actually making the stained glass himself. He sent it off to a factory.

Mel (10:33):

Right.

Louise (10:33):

Okay. So he did small watercolors to go with each window which gave ideas of color, but also were kind of approval kind of drawings for whoever was doing the stained glass window for. But the key thing that he did for the stained glass window manufacturers was create full size pencil on paper versions of the stained glass windows, which were then the working drawings to make the stained glass from. So basically they are their full size. So they're, some of them are quite huge. Wow. In the stained glass window studio. They would've been rolled out flat. And then those drawings are basically the template that the stained glass windows made from. So they would lay the stained glass on top of the drawing to get the right shapes and sizes and colors for the finished window. Lay it out working from a corner so you never start in the middle. 'cause You'll get,

Mel (11:35):

It's not extortion. Yeah, of course.

Louise (11:36):

You've gotta start in a corner and work your way out. So

Mel (11:38):

Clever

Louise (11:39):

From the corner. Very clever. And then they would work in where all the lead lines were going. Bode gave some indication of where he thought the lead lines were gonna go and where some of the bars were gonna go across. So the, the bars are the horizontal heavy duty bars that go into the masonry around the window.

Mel (12:02):

Is that for the structure?

Louise (12:03):

Yes, yes. That's got, it's got to be kept fairly rigid. So he gave indications of that. But obviously the stain glass window manufacturers know a lot more about how the glass is gonna move than Bode might. And so he gave the, the drawings to the manufacturer with lots of instructions on, on colors, on when things were gonna be repeated you know, tracery and so on. Designs that were gonna be repeated. Lots and lots of instructions written onto the drawings. The drawings themselves are known as cartoons. It's quite an old fashioned term in <laugh> art history. I know it's not what people expect no

Mel (12:45):

Cartoons

Louise (12:45):

These days, but it's what they're called. They're called cartoons. So the cartoons that we've got in the Jersey Heritage Collection were given to the <inaudible> in 1934. And they're amazing documents. They are working drawings, so they, they've never been treated well because they got rolled up and stain glass laid out on them and pinned. So there's holes everywhere, et cetera. The pencil drawings on things, there's notes, et cetera. They're working drawings, but they are amazing documents of how the stained glass was made. But also beautiful artworks in themselves, the level of detail on them, which to many really, if you think about it, boj didn't have to put a lot of detail into the actual drawings, but he did. They are beautiful. Beautiful.

Mel (13:35):

Yeah. They are absolutely stunning. I love them.

Louise (13:36):

Yeah. So if anybody ever gets a chance to see any of the drawings, it's well worth it.

Mel (13:41):

What was your first encounter with Bo j's drawings?

Louise (13:45):

So one day, one of the curators at Jersey Museum went into the far deep depths of the attic and came out with a series of rolled up bits of paper, some of which were plain old maps, but some of which were drawings for stained glass windows. But at the time we didn't know they were drawing for stained glass windows. As we unrolled them more and more, we actually saw names of local churches on these windows. I was completely unaware of the stain glass windows in our churches at that time. So as we were unrolling them, I was thinking, Hmm, that says St. Mary on it. I wonder if it's actually a window at St. Mary. Is it St. Mary in Jersey? Even we, we had no idea. So we spent the whole afternoon unrolling all of these amazing, amazing drawings, and then the whole of the next day driving around all of the churches to find these amazing windows and found an awful lot of them. But it was some of the best experiences that I've had in 31 years at Dirty Heritage, was actually rolling out all of these drawings that hadn't been seen, I should imagine for 60 years.

Mel (14:59):

Just going back to what you said about them being life-size. Yeah, they're huge. They're like really big. They're really detailed. It's amazing how he uses the pencil to like, it kind of really pops. 'cause Usually for me, I think pencil's quite subtle and there are areas that are, but generally it's quite a standout piece considering there's no, there's no color on it at all. It's just a drawing. Mm. But it really, it has a lot of presence. Mm

Louise (15:25):

Mm I think the strang glass windows themselves most of the time, apart from places like someone's chapel, which are smaller, so the windows are smaller, a lot of the windows are in big churches. Well by Jersey standards, big churches where people are standing and looking up at the stained glass windows. So they have to have a visual impact. They're there to tell stories. Mm. And so it's a lot of the time with bow days, the the figures really do fill the drawings themselves. There's a bit of tracery around them, but they tend to be filled with the figures to really ca create that visual impact.

Mel (16:06):

Yeah. Wow. Mm. So why stained glass? How did he go from life drawing to his own stuff to like, how do we know why, why he went into stained glass?

Louise (16:17):

No, I mean, I think it's a really good skill to do because you, he has to draw them, which obviously a really good draftsman and then that goes into somebody else's hands and he supervises, but we don't really know for certain why he needed that. Maybe there was a lot of churches needing stain glass windows at that time. It became a bit of a way of memorializing people. Mm. And once you've done something, well the first time <laugh> and found, you found your little niche why not? Absolutely. he did in, earlier in his career he had done quite a lot of drawing book illustrations. So black ink drawings for things like the life of the saints. So he did seem to have quite a religious kind of idea for his art. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. He seemed to, you know, really want to convey reverence for religious fi figures and so on. That really does come across in his stained glass windows. And in the illustrations he did for books like, let's say The Lives of Saints, some of which are a bit gruesome, I have to say.

Mel (17:28):

Really? I've never seen it. I'd have to have a look.

Louise (17:31):

<Laugh>. Yeah, we've got some of the drawings in the, in the Jersey Heritage Collection. Wow. Yeah. Some gruesome deaths. <Laugh>.

Mel (17:38):

Yeah, I bet. Well, biblical times were pretty, yeah. Pretty hardcore. So, <laugh>

Louise (17:42):

<Laugh>.

Mel (17:44):

So what do you think distinguishes Bode stained glass style from other artists of his time?

Louise (17:49):

So I think, I think you just said actually that you could recognize the bow days that were ancient ones. Chapel, they tend to be really saturated with color. There's lots and lots of color. The way he draws figures is in a very pre rite style. So it's quite distinctive with the kind of long elongated figures, elongated features. Lots and lots of flowing tresses in those hair and beautiful, beautiful people.

Mel (18:16):

Yeah. They are absolutely stunning. <Laugh>. Yeah.

Louise (18:18):

Beautiful, beautiful people. <Laugh>

Mel (18:20):

Yeah, he's definitely got very right. Romantic kind of ideology of, you know. Yeah. He's definitely got some, some standards there. <Laugh>. Yeah,

Louise (18:27):

Definitely. But he actually filled the, the stain glass windows with color. They are, you know, they're really, really rich in their color, but they're also, as I say, there's a, there's a reverence to the, to the figures which comes, comes across. So he obviously felt the subjects mm-hmm. Really well. And a need to tell stories as well in the, in the stain glass windows that comes across really well. So yeah, it's, I can tell the difference. There's occasions where I go, is that a bow? Is it not? It looks like it possibly could be. Mm-Hmm. And then sometimes he gives us a nice clue by putting a signature in the corner. <Laugh> not always though. That's

Mel (19:09):

Always

Louise (19:09):

Helpful. It is always helpful if you can see it. Yeah. <laugh>, <laugh>. Sometimes the windows are so high up that you can't see the corners need

Mel (19:17):

A magnifying glass,

Louise (19:18):

A pair of Oculus.

Mel (19:19):

Yeah. <laugh>. Are there any particular techniques or recurring motifs that define his work?

Louise (19:28):

So I think if anybody can go and have a look at an opens on the hill church, there's a marriage of Cana window in there, which is absolutely beautiful. And it actually combines a lot of his stylistic techniques. So the figures at the front are the religious figures, and they're all dressed in drapery, you know, long cloaks and you know, Mary with her veil on, et cetera, et cetera. And you can tell that some of the figures are the apostles wearing their, as say, long drapery. And that's the figures in the foreground in the background is the marriage scene. So there's a long table filled with the marriage guests, the wedding guests, and the figures in that scene are all wearing medieval garb, you know, very kind of rich fabrics, distinct fashionable kind of clothes. And then there's a couple of figures in the foreground that have, are again from the wedding party that have found their way into the foreground.

Louise (20:35):

So that's a couple of clues there. You know, the kind of robes, et cetera for biblical figures. And an awful lot of the time he does do secular figures in medieval garb, which is very prera light in nature. Lots and lots of long flowing hair. <Laugh> the ing on the hill has also got quite a long table, which that is also a feature of the St. Lawrence Last Supper window. So there's food laid out on the table. There's an open on the hill one has got a beautiful, beautiful peacock. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really lovely. So Bode actually manages to convey a lot of color through the things that he portrays in the stained glass. So again, it's an os on the hill above the marriage scene, there's some angels, the top one of which is sitting on a glass rainbow, which is just the most beautiful kind of feature that might be missed. So take your binoculars, <laugh>. And below the window is some more angels which again, are really, really beautiful individual windows. So you need to look at the detail as well. There's a few churches that have got angels with multicolored wings that they're really, really beautiful works of art in themselves. The, the windows.

Mel (22:02):

Wow. Mm-hmm. I'm really interested in this peacock. 'cause Usually a peacock is like a symbol of like hin Hinduism and like they use that around Krishna and things. Mm-Hmm. So it's interesting to see that kind of bird depicted in a, a Christian kind of religious Yeah. Panel.

Louise (22:18):

Yeah, absolutely. And there's, there's, there's an awful lot of symbolism in the, in the stained glass windows. So at St. Lawrence, again, I think it's St. Lawrence, you've got a pineapple on the table, which is a symbol of generosity. Wow. And kindness and friendship. The chalice that's on the table in St. Lawrence is really marked because of the bright color. It's really bright yellow in the middle of quite a brownish kind of background that really, really sticks out as an important object. So it's not just the objects and the color, it's how the light is gonna play with those Yeah. Absolutely. Objects when it comes in. So at St Opens on the hill, for example, in the very center of the tracery between all the angels, there's a much smaller window, which is the sun, which apparently at a particular point of the year, the sun comes through that window and hits the back of the church. I've never seen it myself, but I was told by one of the people that attend the church. So that happens. So again, that's pretty amazing how the light re reacts with the, the stained glass. Yeah. All of those elements together make it quite a spiritual experience. That's

Mel (23:39):

So cool. I'd never heard of that. I would have to go and see. That's kind of like a, a more modern, kind of like the hug bee thing. Mm,

Louise (23:46):

Exactly. And it shows you the importance of light in our world, really.

Mel (23:50):

Absolutely. Oh, of course. I mean, I'm a big fan. I like to take photos so light. I can, I can really, whenever I look at certain artists' work, I always think to myself, it's incredible how they've understood such a complic like complex natural phenomenon. Yeah. So it's like really interesting to see how they all play around with light. Mm-Hmm.

Louise (24:09):

Yeah. And how it affects our mood today. Yeah. You know, everybody is subject to the, the vagaries of light. Mm-Hmm. But also the positive effects of, of light on our as people. Absolutely.

Mel (24:21):

Yeah. Yeah. So interesting. Are you a Jersey Heritage member? If not, head to our website and sign up today. So you've made reference to a few different places where people can see bode's work in the island. So we've got St Opens on the Hill and you mentioned St. Lawrence Church. Where else can people go and see his work?

Louise (24:46):

So a lot of the parish churches have got bo days in them. So in St. Helia for example, they've got a beautiful annunciation with a very, very pretty angel <laugh> at St. Xavier and St. Martin. There's also really lovely windows. St. Mary has got quite a few Windows. The angels appearing to the shepherds and the adoration of the Kings. At St. Martin, there's a really lovely, quite a full nativity scene. Oh, lovely as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really lovely. And an annunciation at St. Martin as well. And we've got the cartoons for some of these at Jersey Heritage with St. Martin. I did at one point many years ago, toy was trying to get the nativity out for Christmas, but the one drawing that was missing was the baby Jesus.

Mel (25:41):

Okay. That's quite crucial element of that <laugh> drawing.

Louise (25:46):

<Laugh>. Yeah. We need, we need the baby Jesus. Oh yes. Trinity have got an Annunciation. Gore and St. Brood have quite a lot of bode windows in the main main church and in the chapel as well. They've got some really interesting ones at St. Brood and they're actually worth a visit as well, because they're slightly lower down. You can actually get a bit closer up and see them without having to need your, use your binoculars so much. But yeah, Stella's got some really interesting windows, including one, which is again, got the religious figure on the left with their drapery and a secular figure on the right, which is a sewer in much more medieval kind of costume. So some interesting windows in some.

Mel (26:36):

That's incredible. So, so he's gone, he's, he was born we think on a ship potentially in Jersey. He's kind of had his very early life here. He's gone to London to be like the master of his field. He's gone into stained glass and then he's come back to the island and done all these commissions. That's incredible. It is incredible that he came back mm-hmm <affirmative>. To do all this work and it's so present in our island. Yeah,

Louise (27:01):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And there is so much of it that people don't necessarily associate with a Jersey artist, but isn't that, you know, wonderful that we've got a local artist whose work is seen, has been seen by thousands of people over the course of the years, you know, in really important and significant buildings. Yeah. In the island as well, places where people have their, some of their most important parts of their life. Weddings and funerals and christenings and so on, you know, really important parts of Christian life really are in those, in those places. And they can see some of the arc created by Bode in those places.

Mel (27:43):

That is incredible. I mean, I have to admit, I, I love a stained glass window. I was raised a Roman Catholic and my mom used to really, really encourage me to go to church to put it politely, <laugh>. And we used to go to St. Thomas's a lot and I remember just a lot of the time just staring at these panels and looking through the light and the colors and the designs and kind of sometimes not really knowing what I was looking at, but knowing that they were absolutely beautiful. Mm-Hmm. And kind of feeling like a real connection to the, to the craft of it. But to, to now you, like, as you said, to really think about the fact that we have a local talent that people can, they don't even realize probably that what they're looking at is something that's really been inspired very much by early life in the island. So that's really incredible. Yeah.

Louise (28:30):

They are that we, we are really lucky in the wealth of bode that we've got in the island and, and some that are completely unique to those places as well.

Mel (28:40):

Yeah, absolutely. I had no idea the scale. I didn't realize we, we basically have his work in almost every parish.

Louise (28:45):

Yeah. Almost every parish. And Gore, gore Church as well. So there are a couple outside of, there's, as you say, St. Juan, and there's also the little Memorial chapel in Ville Cemetery that's got some of his windows in as well, and St. Luke's.

Mel (29:03):

Wow. Yeah. So he, he really, he really got around the island. Mm-Hmm. Amazing.

Louise (29:07):

Yeah, absolutely. And I think he kind of, you know, once, once one church had a window done successfully, then the kind, the kind of, you know, developed in, into, you know, we'll, we'll ask Bode, sometimes churches obviously when they had less money would use a design that had already been done somewhere else 'cause it was cheaper. So you'll find that a few es have got what we, what's known as the light of the world, which is Jesus with a crown of thorns on holding a lantern and the Good Shepherd, which is Jesus holding a sheep, usually those two together. So you, you'll find those in a few churches. But as I say, you also find completely unique Mm. And visually stunning ones like St. Opens on the Hill, or St. Lawrence where you've got, I think St. Opens on the Hill is maybe five or six panels plus three angels above, plus the little sunshine in the middle, you know, substantial windows.

Mel (30:09):

Because that's the thing about Bodhi that's incredible to me, is that once you see one of his pieces, you do recognize them again because it just, he has got such a distinct style mm-hmm

Louise (30:19):

<Affirmative>. And it's accessible as well. Anybody can go into a church and see ly see these windows, you know. Yeah. If there's, if they're, if they're able to go into them, you know, you can go in and have a look. It's not like there's anything like, you know, preventing, you know, the churches are open to everybody.

Mel (30:35):

How has Jersey Heritage been involved in the preservation of Bode's work?

Louise (30:39):

So, Jersey Heritage looks after an awful lot of the cartoons. And the people at Jersey Archive, the paper conservators at the archive have done a lot of work on some of the cartoons courtesy of the Glass Rainbow Trust, which is a trust that was set up quite a few years ago to actually preserve and celebrate Bode's work. And they've done a cracking job ever since. That in, in that sense. So the actual cartoons are looked after by Jersey Heritage on behalf of the Sate. The Windows themselves are obviously the responsibility of those Paris churches. But the Glass Rainbow Trust a few years ago did a survey of all of the bode windows and were able to highlight some that needed a bit of TLC for the churches to be aware that those, those windows were in need of some specialist help. A lot of the windows aren't too bad in terms of condition. We obviously, you know, everybody has to keep an eye on them in terms of condition. And if anybody goes and has a look at them, have a look at the condition whilst you're there. <Laugh>

Mel (31:48):

Citizen curators, yes, citizen

Louise (31:50):

Curators, everybody have a look. <Laugh> more eyes, the better <laugh> things to look out for are when if you, if you ever see a, a stained glass window that's start starting to bow, you know, that's a, that's a, a sign of something that's going slightly wrong and that's a, a something to watch out for. 'cause That's when you could start losing yeah. Losing glass on it. But yeah, that's something that people could actually look out for as they go round.

Mel (32:19):

And what are some of the challenges involved in preserving the paper that we have in our collection?

Louise (32:24):

Well, one of the big challenges is that they've never been treated well because they are working drawings. They're designed to go off to a factory and to be laid out with lots of pins stuck in them and notes made on them and treated like, you know, it's almost like kind of architects drawings and so on. They kind of get rolled up and shoved in a box together and not treated as archives, which we might do these days. So kind of pulling that back whilst at the same time keeping their authenticity as working during. So we don't want to fill all the, the drawing pinholes in them. No, we want to keep

Mel (33:04):

That. Yeah. 'cause it tells the story of what they were used for. Right,

Louise (33:07):

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Mel (33:08):

But it does make sense as to why they can't be displayed in like a traditional sense, because they are something that need to be really cared for and looked after in a specific way. Right.

Louise (33:18):

Yeah, absolutely. And they're, because they've not been treated well, they are, you know, they're quite dry in the way they are, so they're more likely to crack. They're on very, very thick paper, which is more likely to crack and so on. So you can lose a lot. Mm. But the team at the archive have been doing a cracking job with thinking about all of those elements. And what's the best to do to preserve these drawings for the future.

Mel (33:46):

So the book that we have, which is called The Glass Rainbow mm-hmm <affirmative>. Is written by a gentleman called Aiden Smith. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> what do we know about Aiden? So,

Louise (33:55):

Aiden Smith was a lover of glass. So he particularly loved the work of Rene lik, but also really appreciated the work of Henry Thomas Bode. So he actually wrote the book that we've got called The Glass Rainbow about Bode. He did an awful lot of the research and he and I would have good chats about our shared love of Bode.

Mel (34:22):

What do you think Bode's legacy teaches us about the importance of art in public spaces?

Louise (34:27):

I think it teaches us to always look and to always appreciate and think about why something is there and what the artist or the place is, is trying to invoke in putting that piece of artwork in that, that space. And to be open-minded about it. There's art around us all of the time, so having a kind of sense of having a look having, having thoughts on it. Just, you know, being open is really important.

Mel (35:00):

And also to like, be brave enough to ask the question because, oh yes, if there's someone around, I always find that because of the nature of ma of our work and what we do, I've become a lot more curious about things. So as that example of me gonna, someone's manner on that day and, and actually asking the gentleman, is this a bo day? Bearing in mind, he could have been like, oh no, it's so and so <laugh>. But I think it's also really important to just, if you're curious about something, to go and find out more information, because it's always, you can deep dive into things, especially in Jersey where, you know, we, I do think we do a very good job at making sure that people have access to more information should they want it. So we also have the Glass Rainbow book that we can sell at the Jersey Museum. But where else can people find more information if they want a deep dive into bode's work? Oh,

Louise (35:51):

Deep dive. If you go onto the internet, there is a fabulous website dedicated to Bode, which was actually put together by one of his relatives, which is really amazing.

Mel (36:03):

Oh, lovely. So, oh, that's really personal. Lovely.

Louise (36:06):

But it's got all of the details of churches in Jersey with some really, really good photographs of the windows in Jersey plus details about his life, plus details of some of the stain glass around the world.

Mel (36:22):

Amazing. Well, thank you very much for your expertise today, Louise. It's always a pleasure to speak to you. Yeah,

Louise (36:26):

You're very welcome.

Mel (36:29):

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