The RMS Titanic

Tune into our latest episode exploring story of the Titanic through a unique Jersey lens. Hosts, Perry and Mel will be uncovering the Island’s connections to the ill-fated voyage. We’re joined by Titanic expert David Hutchings from Southampton and Jersey Heritage exhibitions curator Lucy Layton, who share insights into passengers and crew with ties to Jersey. 

Together, they reveal the local stories that were impacted by the disaster of April 1912. From lives lost, to remarkable survivals, this episode shares how one of history’s most famous tragedies is interwoven with Jersey’s own heritage and collective memory.

A new Titanic display honouring the Islanders involved in the disaster opens in April 2026 at the Maritime Museum.

To support our work telling the Island's stories please make a donation.

Transcript

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The Jersey Heritage Podcast – The Small Islands, Big Story Sessions

The RMS Titanic with David Hutchings & Lucy Layton

Perry (00:02):

Welcome to the Jersey Heritage Podcast,

Mel (00:05):

The Small Island Big Story Sessions.

Perry (00:08):

You are listening to Mel and Perry. In today's episode, we'll be exploring one of the most well-known maritime stories in history, the RMS Titanic. In April, 1912, the Titanic Set Sale on her maiden voyage, symbolizing confidence, progress, and modern engineering. What followed, became a tragedy that has been retold countless times, yet it is often remembered as a single global event, rather than a collection of deeply personal local stories.

Mel (00:41):

Today we're focusing on two places where the impact of the Titanic was felt Southampton, the ship's home port where many of the crew lived and worked, and Jersey, our small island, where individuals and families had their own connections to the ship and its passengers. To

Perry (00:57):

Help us explore these stories, we are joined by David Hutchings, a Titanic expert from Southampton and Lucy Leighton from Jersey Heritage, who has been putting together a new display for the Maritime Museum, which tells us the stories of Jersey's, links to the ship.

Mel (01:13):

Thank you so much for joining us today. Pleasure. It's really nice to have you on our tiny little screen, <laugh>, all the way from Southampton. Indeed, indeed. So what, what made the Titanic so special? Because obviously we had her sister ship the Olympics. Yeah. But what made Titanic unique?

David (01:29):

Well, the Olympic and Titanic, they were what, just around about 45,000 boys tons. The previous biggest ships, the Mauritania and Glucan were 34,000. So there was a t leap in tonnage, so they could advertise the ships as the biggest and most luxurious in the world, which was a good selling point. Now, the unsinkable bit was the technical press said Olympic and our sisters will be divided into 16 watertight compartments by 15 bulkheads. The bulkheads didn't go all the way up, which is one of the lessons learned. They didn't go all the way up. And they said, if in the event Olympic or Titanic are hold in two or three compartments, they will stay afloat. So they're rendered practically unsinkable. And the publicity dropped the word practically and just described them as unsinkable. But unfortunately, Titanic was hit in six compartments. They controlled the flooding in the sixth, but she flooded in five, whereas she could have stayed afloat with three, possibly four float.

David (02:41):

But because five were flooded, it pulled a bow down, the water rose tipped over into the next compartment. The barrel went down, more water came in, overflowed into the next compartment, until eventually she upended and disappeared. But when you see film of her breaking in half, she did break in half as the wreck shows. But I don't think she actually broken half as such until she was under the water. If she'd broken in half on the surface and that stern collapsed back into the water, it would've been a mini tsunami and would've possibly destroyed or capsized some of the lifeboats in the water that night. There was no moon, so it was pretty dark. The Atlantic was smooth and some people said they'd never seen the Atlantic so smooth, and it was custom and practice. If the night is clear and conditions are okay, then you can go full steam ahead.

David (03:46):

Captain Prichard of the Maia said that at the inquiry. So the Titanic was going not full speed. She was capable of 22 and a half knot. She was doing about 21, I believe, which wasn't fast. 'cause The Motown, you could do 26, 27 knots and she would go fast at night if it was clear. So there were steaming along. And because there were no waves, there was no wash around the base of the iceberg. The Titanic had received wireless messages, warning of ice. And one message went into the radio room, more or less, told them pretty well exactly where that ice was. But because that message didn't have a special code for the captain, it was just put to one side because the radio operators, they weren't employed by the white star company employed by the Marconi company. They were there to make money for the Marconi Company by sending private messages.

David (04:50):

And they were very busy that night because of a, a breakdown in the radio system. So they were catching up with messages and this important message, not having the captain's code was put to one side. So the ship carried on through this calm water. The chaps in the crows nest were keeping a sharp lookout. They didn't have binoculars. Again, captain pre-charged the inquiry said he never gave his lookouts binoculars, because it restricts your field of vision. You always relied on the, what I think he called it, the mark one eyeball. So you can get a better view of anything that's a couple of miles away, which would give plenty of time to, to give you warning. Anyway, eventually the lookout saw the iceberg. I telephoned a bridge and said, what do you see? They said, I straight ahead. So they went a stern on the outer propeller.

David (05:53):

She had three propellers. The stern propeller was only a capable of going ahead. So they had to go a stern on the air propellers. But that took the way off the ship, which took any pressure off the rudder. So she became slightly less maneuverable, and the first officer wanted to go to the left of the iceberg, then turn the rudder to sort of swerve around the iceberg like you do with a car. 'cause If you, if your a car is coming towards you, you are on the road, of course you're gonna take action. So the first officer had to take action to try and avoid this iceberg, but it was just too late. And they didn't have the power by then on the propellers to do his maneuver. So she just slightly grazed the iceberg. It didn't tear a big rent in the side. It more or less bounced along the side. And instead of making a hole, it split the rivet seams. So the seams opened, and that was what left the water in. And the actual area that the water went in was only by 12 square feet. So it was very small area, but it was enough over six compartments to create a disaster. That's

Mel (07:11):

Incredible, isn't it really, when you think about

David (07:13):

It. Yeah.

Perry (07:14):

Yeah. It it seems almost like a, a few small errors cause this like gigantic, this gigantic disaster to happen.

David (07:22):

Yeah. Well, there's a, everybody said after the disaster, oh, she didn't carry enough lifeboats, which was true, but she conformed to the Board of Trade Regulations that had had been formulated in, I think 1896 that said a ship of 10,000 tons or more should carry 16 lifeboats and 10,000 tons in 1896 was a big vessel. But over the next 10, 15 years, ships got bigger and bigger and bigger. The Maia Lucita 34,000 tons, Titanic, Olympic 45,000 tons. So there were four and a half times bigger than the regulations allowed for. But the designers of the Titanic said, while the regulations are going to change, we'll make provision for extra lifeboats to be fitted when the regulations are changed. But at the moment, we'll send them to sea with the statutory 16 lifeboats plus four additional ones, which are called Collapsibles. Now, basically they were just wooden bottoms to lifeboats with collapsible canvas. Sites

David (08:38):

Two were stowed under the forward lifeboats, and two were stowed on top of a deck house. Just by the forward funnel, the white star line said, well, we don't really want to clutter the boat deck with too many lifeboats at the moment. 'cause It would spoil the passenger's view as they promenade along the boat deck. So the Titanic said, sell with a statutory legal amount of lifeboats plus four additional ones. So she exceeded the regulations, but it took Titanic to change that regulation. And also another regulation called the bulkhead regulation. There's a bulkhead committee, and they said bulkheads should extend further up into the ship, but again, on Titanic and Olympic they realized that in a way because they said, well, if we put life bulkheads too high, then it might obstruct the flow of passengers through the ship. So they just get the bulkheads where the, they wanted them thinking that the Titanic was a, a three or four compartment ship where three or four compartments could be flooded safely without endangering the, the vessel. But as we know, five or six compartments were ruptured and that created the demise of that magnificent ship.

Perry (10:03):

What would it have been like for those people that did manage to make it onto a lifeboat and now they're in the ocean? Yeah. How long are they in there till they get rescued? How freezing cold is it? How prepared were they for the kind of the temperature and the weather?

David (10:19):

Well, well, it, it varied because you get into a lifeboat. Some people say, oh, I'm not getting into that lifeboat. 'cause That meant a, a 70 foot drop from the boat deck down to the sea. But once they were in the lifeboats and they watched the ship sinking, and they heard the cries afterwards, they, they didn't know if and when they were going to be rescued. But some people did know. One of the widest operators managed to survive, and he was standing on top the top of this upturned lifeboat, collapsible lifeboat. And second Officer <inaudible> was there and he said what ships are coming? He said, well, the nearest one, basically, 'cause there was a ship about 20 miles away, but the wireless operator was off duty. Again, that's another big controversial subject. The nearest ship is about 50 miles away. The Q nard line, the Carpathia, she was heading from New York down to the Mediterranean, picked up the messages and turned round, and the captain, captain Boron, another Seth Hampton man, got the ship ready to take on survivors.

David (11:22):

So people were a float on the sea. Luckily it was calm, but a wind was picking up towards morning. And he arrived by four hours after the sinking. And it took him a further three hours to pick up all the passengers from the launch boats. And he salvaged a lot of the lifeboats, which he bought into New York. And unhi by the white sky line dock. But yes. Another, a couple of other ships arrived on the scene af afterwards, and the wind was picking up. And during the carius trip back to New York, they went through quite a heavy thunderstorm. It was raining in New York when they arrived in, in the city. So they had a very narrow escape, 'cause some of the lifeboats were heavily laden. One officer transferred his passengers into a life into another lifeboat, and he went back into the disaster area to try and find anybody in the water. And he from a 1500 people in the water, he only managed to pick up about four.

Perry (12:32):

And it must have been dangerous going back to rescue people that are in the water trying to be saved. 'cause You know, presumably there's, there's a panic.

David (12:40):

That's why a lot did, that's why a lot didn't go back. They said, if we go back in, well, we'll be swamped or be capsizing us than there'd be more victims to the disaster. 'cause A captain, when the first lifeboats went away, he said lay off the ship and come back and pick up more people. And one lifeboat designed for 40 went away with about 16 people in it. Oh,

Mel (13:09):

That's awful.

Perry (13:10):

Such a shame. Awful. What did this do for, like, people's confidence in big ships? You know, did, did, did this seem to have like an effect on people going, I'm not gonna go on any big ships like that in the future, or did it, was it just a sort of an accepted thing that this might happen on a boat?

David (13:27):

Some ships before Titanic, again, some of 'em were built by Ireland, and Wolf had a full compliment of lifeboats. Some of the Union Castle boats did. But after Titanic, they realized that legislation had to change, that the Board of Trade regulations were completely out of date. And shortly after the disaster, the Olympic sailed from Southampton, still with the old compliment of lifeboats. But the crew members on board is a case of workers Unite said, no, we're not sailing. We're not sailing. We haven't got enough lifeboats. So basically they went on strike and the Olympic was anchored off the Isle of White for some time. And the Duke of Sutherland was on board the Olympic, and he was gonna get some of his mates from the Royal Yacht Squadron to come on board and take over the duties of the crew down in the stoke Hold wherever. But no, the Olympic had to go and get a full compliment of lifeboats before she could be used again.

Mel (14:35):

And then how did the news of the disaster reach Southampton? And how, how did the town react?

David (14:40):

They knew the ship was in trouble. And typical of the time, if the newspapers didn't have any hard and fast news, they'd make it up. Mm. They'd say Titanic being towed into Halifax, Nova Scotia Olympic alongside Titanic taking passengers off, not knowing that she'd actually sunk. But the New York Times put two and two together and they picked up a couple of messages and they said, no, the Titanic has sunk with rent loss of life. And eventually the news came across the Atlantic through the underwater cable system. And the rumors spread around Southampton and the local people who had men, folk, and even women folk in the crew on board. The ship went down to the white star offices in Commute Road. And gradually the white star offices hung big sheets of paper outside the offices were with names of people they knew to have survived. So originally they thought about 800 people had been rescued. And when, when, in fact, it was just over seven, 700 and Southampton was particularly hard hit. There was just over 900 crew on board. 725 of those came from Southampton. And of that 725 by 550 were lost. Wow. So that was a huge, huge number of breadwinners in Southampton were lost.

Perry (16:14):

How did that affect the economy of Southampton? That must have had some reverberations. Well,

David (16:18):

Very badly. Very badly. I suppose. Some people had to go on the parish, which is the last thing they wanted and go into the workhouse. But eventually this Lord Mayor's fund started up and monies were allotted to victims' families.

Mel (16:37):

David, what do we know about the shipwreck now that's at the bottom of the Atlantic? Do we, do you know much about what's left?

David (16:47):

Well, she's gradually deteriorating, I reckon in about 50 years time, she'll be a pile of iron dust on the seabed. 'cause She's gradually deteriorating. That's increasing as the years go by. And as she sank, it's my belief that it's the bio sank, the stern lifted. She probably broken split just by what they call the after expansion joint, which is a joint in the superstructure to take up any, any movement of the ship in the seaway. So she may have started to break up on the surface, but as the bio parts sank it poured the stern down with it. But because the stern was still buoyant, the, the stern probably just went upwards in the water. And whilst the bio part broke off, descended to, to the seabed and the stern part there being flooded on the fall, part of the, that part of the wreck kept her upright for a few more seconds before that tooth sank, because there was a crew survivor said he was actually standing on the stone.

David (18:00):

And it said it went down like a lift. It said, it just paused and then it, it started to go down. So it's my belief she broke up under the water, not on the surface. The wreck itself is about half a mile between the both parts because the bow being finally shaped probably went down at the slight angle, but the after end had the engines in it, which weighed 4,000 tons. So that went straight down. And because of the air pressure inside, it just ripped up the after decks like a sardine can. So that part of the wreck is hell of a mess. The engines themselves is sitting on the seabed and the absolutely mag magnificent pieces of engineering.

Mel (18:48):

My last question, David, is of all the stories that you've probably heard throughout your, your time researching the Titanic, is there a specific story of somebody that was on board or working on the ship that you find most interesting?

David (19:02):

One thing that does fascinate me is the, the Captain's last moments. 'cause He was due to retire after this trip. He was one of the most experienced captains on a North Atlantic. And he had a very high salary. He had, I think he was on 1200 pounds a year. Wow. And he had a thousand pounds bonus for safe voyages. He started to, he organized the UK orders for the boats to be prepared and launched, but not too much is known about his movements for the rest of the evening. So I just would like to know what, what happened. He must have been in total shock

Mel (19:48):

Seeking a unique getaway. Why not book a Jersey Heritage Holiday Lens from coastal towers, cozy cottages, and country apartments? We have something for everyone. Head over to our website and check availability today. Jersey Heritage members get a discount, so sign up now. Welcome back to the podcast, Lucy.

Lucy (20:09):

Nice to be here.

Mel (20:11):

So we have spoken to David. He's set the scene on the Titanic, but you have been recently doing some really interesting research about some stories that link back to Jersey. So I was wondering if you could kickstart with what you've been working on for the Maritime Museum?

Lucy (20:26):

Yes. Well, we are doing a new display for the Maritime Museum which will be telling the stories of the three Jersey passengers and seven members of the Titanic crew with links to Jersey that were involved in the disaster. There was a book published in 2012 for the Centenary of the Disaster that was written by Alistair Crosby. And based on a lot of the research of Jersey's Titanic expert Mandy Labia, who sadly can't be here to, to share her research. But I wanted to pay credit to both of them because they did a huge amount of research when they put the book together. And we wanted to take those stories and tell them at the Maritime Museum, because it's such a fascinating subject. I mean, people have always been sort of captivated, haunted, horrified by the tragedy of the Titanic. But I think people probably don't realize that there is actually, you know, these 10 Jersey people with who are on the boat. Their stories haven't really been told. And so we wanted to add those to the Maritime Museum. We don't have any objects. We don't have any collections related to the Titanic, but we will be telling their stories. And we can do that in a really sort of engaging way, even though we don't have any, any actual personal items from the, from the tragedy.

Mel (21:44):

It's amazing. I had no idea that there was a Jersey link to this story. 'cause As a child I was obsessed with the Titanic. But I have to admit it's because of the film. But I think it's incredible that there's a Jersey link because some of these stories that we've talked about before, before the episode are quite big ones, aren't they?

Lucy (22:01):

They are. I mean, for me, it was really interesting to look at the sort of stories of the individuals because there were these three female passengers on the, on the boat, and they all survived. And then there were seven members of crew, and outta those four survived, and three, sadly lost their lives in the tragedy. So within those 10 people, they, they cover a lot of different sort of aspects of, of society and, you know, we can draw out some interesting observations about why some people survived and, and others didn't. But yeah, one of the biggest stories is the story of lady Duff Gordon. So she was one of the most prominent people sailing on the ship with her wealthy husband. So Cosmo Duff Gordon she grew up in Jersey and went on to become one of the pioneer fashion designers of the time.

Lucy (22:57):

Wow. So she was, she had her businesses in London and Paris and, and New York. So she was incredibly well known. She had this really sort of thriving fashion industry. So they were actually traveling incognito. They were traveling under the pseudonym of Mr. And Mrs. Morgan. So it was not to sort of attract attention. Oh, wow. <Laugh> when they when they arrived in New York, their story is really interesting. And it had loads of coverage at the time because they both survived the the tragedy. And so Cosmo Duff Gordon, I mean, he made the, did the un gentleman thing of surviving, because obviously if you're a gentleman, you gave up your seat for a woman or a child and, you know, went down honorably with the sinking ship. So he committed this terrible crime of, of having survived. And there was lots of sort of scandal at the time because they were in one of the early lifeboats.

Lucy (23:51):

And I think there were only a handful of other passengers and several members of crew. And there was lots of discussion afterwards about whether they should have gone back to try and rescue other passengers. Hmm. He apparently gave some of the sailors some money, ostensibly it was because they had lost all the belongings and sinking of the ship. So he was trying to compensate them and say, thank you for, you know, the work you did tonight, helping save our lives. But it was interpreted by some people as Briber bribery, did you bribe them to row away from sinking ship and not go back and possibly endanger themselves by trying to rescue other people. So at the Board of Inquiry afterwards they got an absolute grilling from the tribunal, and they were all over the front pages of the papers. And Iman, it was just terrible.

Lucy (24:45):

Their reputations were completely destroyed, and actually their marriage collapsed within a few years. So it had a really devastating impact on them. So we have their story. And then there were two other women on board. One of them is really fascinating because she was a, a young woman called Rosalie Beis. And she was a personal ma to Lady Asta who was the wife of Lord Asta. So they were the most wealthy people on board the ship. Wow. And again, really interesting because Lady Astor, who was quite young and pregnant at the time, she and Rosalie survive, they were put into a lifeboat and, and, and rode away from the disaster was Lord Astor, despite being the wealthiest man on board the ship and his his personal valet because they're men, they both honorably go down with the ship. So a real, a tragedy.

Lucy (25:44):

And we have this Jersey woman, Rosalie Beir, who was traveling first class because of her role as personal assistant to Lady Asta and survives the tragedy. So you get this di division between people surviving because they're traveling first class because they're wealthy, because they're women and others who, you know, despite the fact they are incredibly wealthy, they, they, they do the honorable thing and, and, and don't get into a lifeboat and as a consequence lose their lives. So yeah, it, it was really interesting looking at all these stories. I mean, the third woman on board, again, really interesting. She was a young woman called Bertha Elay, and she was only 17. Her parents had separated. So though she lived in Jersey, she was traveling out to visit her father who had moved to New York. So again, a young woman of 17 traveling alone, apparently she had originally got a third class ticket, so she would've been traveling steerage, but decided to upgrade to a second class ticket.

Lucy (26:44):

And that decision probably saved, may well have saved her life. Yeah, absolutely. Because we know that the vast, not vast majority, but a, a huge numbers of the third class passengers lost their lives. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So, you know, she hadn't made that decision then. She may not have survived the tragedy. And it's interesting that she made a life for herself. So we know that she went out there to visit her father. We don't know whether it was just a visit or whether she was planning to settle there permanently, but in fact, she does make a life for herself in the States. She settles there permanently and you can't help but wonder whether she wasn't terribly keen on getting back on a ship after going through that awful traumatic experience. So, you know, it, it changed, potentially changed the course of her life.

Mel (27:30):

And how did you find these stories?

Lucy (27:32):

Well, again, I have to give a lot of credit to Mandy because she is very passionate about the Titanic, all aspects of it. She's part of the, a member of the Titanic Society, and I think she was just really interested in tracking down the stories of, of Islanders with a Jersey connection. And there have been other names that might, there was speculation. They might have been connected to the island. Of course there were a lot of French sounding names because the ship went from Southampton, its first Portico was Cherbourg. So there are people with French names that are one time people speculated may have come from Jersey, but she and Alistair Crosby sort of narrowed it down to 10 people. And that's the stories they tell within their book. And that's, those are the stories that were telling at the Maritime Museum. There were also 19 people from Guernsey who were, who involved in the, in the tragedy as well. 19. Yes. That's a lot. Yeah. Although for this display, we're just focusing on the Yeah, of course. Facing on Jersey. On the Jersey stories.

Mel (28:29):

That's really interesting. There was so many from the Channel Islands. Mm-Hmm. Wow.

Perry (28:33):

It's amazing they managed to gather these stories. I mean, do you know much about their process of how they found all these, this

Lucy (28:40):

Information? I imagine just looking through the archives, the records, the newspaper reports at the time the, as the, as the stories came out in the press, then there was a lot in the local papers. So I know they did a lot of newspaper research looking at the evening post and the morning news, which are the two main papers back in 1912. So as the stories came out, obviously there was enormous interest in the tragedy generally, but then once people realized there were Channel Islanders on board, then those stories also sort of came through the press much as they would nowadays, if there's an earthquake summer in the world, there's usually within a day or two a story of a Jersey person who happens to be there. And, you know, they will account their personal stories. So there's lots of interest here in the stories of of the Jersey people who are involved in the tragedy.

Mel (29:30):

So you also mentioned there were some crew members that were involved in the tragedy. So let's, let's have a look at what you found about them.

Lucy (29:36):

Yes. We know there were about seven Jerseymen who were employed on the Titanic outta those four survived, and three lost their lives. And again, there's an interesting distinction. The ones who survive tended to be the able seamens. So they were people who had jobs on deck. A lot of them survived because they were in the lifeboats actually rowing passengers to safety. So they were more likely to survive than people who had roles as stewards. So those are kind of indoor roles. So they might be you know, helping in the dining room or helping clink cabins, that kind of thing. So if they had inside roles, they were less likely to survive amongst those stories. There's some particularly fascinating ones. The one that really caught my imagination was Alfred Oliver. So he came from St. Ws. he was actually a quartermaster, so a lot of the other people were has sort of slightly lower ranking roles as stewards and Abel Seaman.

Lucy (30:35):

But he was a quartermaster. So this meant that part of his role was steering the ship under the direction of the captain or one of the senior officers. But he had been at the wheel of the ship for a few hours, a few hours prior to the incident. He was still on duty when the ship hit the iceberg. No, but he was not steering the ship at that time. He was on other roles. But he's one of the few survivors who actually saw the iceberg. What, and so he gave testimony. There was an American Board of Inquiry on the 28th of April, and he was interviewed, and you can find the transcripts online of the whole Wow. Testimony that he gave is what eyewitness report. But he describes how the iceberg, it wasn't white as I expected to see an iceberg. It was a kind of a dark blue.

Lucy (31:23):

So you can see the difficulty if the iceberg is this dark blue color of spotting it. And there were iceberg warnings in the area. They had lookouts actively looking for icebergs. And it was spotted, but just not in enough time for the tragedy to be averted. But Alfred Oliver was really interesting. He, he was born in once in 1884. He went to see at the age of 16. So he was incredibly experienced. He'd worked in the Royal Marines for seven years and then joined the Merchant Navy. And then like a lot of the Jersey crew members, he had actually relocated to Southampton. He'd settled there with his wife and his family because a lot of the big shipping lines were operating outta Southampton. So it was just a, you know, if you are in that line of work, it was a good place to be based.

Lucy (32:12):

So he actually he worked for the White Star line on the Olympia, which was their other, one of their other vessels. And in fact, his house was called Olympia after the vessel with his brother-in-law, Walter Percuss, he joined the crew of the Titanic in 1912. And they were both quartermaster. And as I said, that was one of the roles was to steer the ship under the command of the captain or one of the officers who were keeping watch. So he had been at the helm of the ship until 10 o'clock that night. And then he was running errands after he was relieved of that duty. So he was right there in the thick of it. He heard three warning bells from the lookouts in the crow's nest. So they had seen the iceberg. So he'd heard that warning Captain Smith Edward Smith, he sent him with a message to the chief engineer and then to the boso with orders to uncover the lifeboats and make them ready for lowering.

Lucy (33:11):

So, you know, he was really involved right there in the action. He talked about he cave testimony about how he went to lifeboat five. So that was on the starboard side of the ship, and he started getting passengers into that boat. At that stage, the deck wasn't very crowded mm-hmm <affirmative>. So they loaded people on. I mean, I think people initially didn't realize the peril they were in because of course this ship had always been sold as it's unsinkable. Yeah. So they knew something had happened, but people weren't appreciating the danger they were in. And I don't think that message was being relayed by the captain, even to some of the other crew. So obviously in the middle of the night is freezing cold, you think you are on an unsinkable ship, would you want to get into No, a lifeboat if you don't think it's really necessary and be lowered over the side of the ship into the sea?

Lucy (34:01):

Yeah. So you can see why people initially were a bit hesitant thinking, well, you know, I've got my life life and I think I'll just stay here rather than get into a lifeboat. So those early lifeboats didn't, they weren't full. And that was part of the problem later on that yeah. You know, you know, they didn't have the capacity to, to rescue people. But anyway, Oliver actually was on this lifeboat lifeboat five 'cause they needed crew members to actually man the lifeboats to take the s and rope people away. And he talks about how he wanted with another crew member. They wanted to be able to return and try and rescue people in the water once the ship had gone down. But lots of the other passengers, you know, didn't want them to return. And so it was really difficult. I think they were really haunted by this decision they had to make, whether to go back or not. And you know, it, it, it troubled him for the rest of his life. And he definitely suffered from PTSD. He attempted to take his life and, you know, I think there was a lot of trauma experienced by members of the crew as well as passengers. It was a terrible experience for, for everyone involved.

Perry (35:12):

Was his experience documented? Did he write diaries or how, what do we sort of know about?

Lucy (35:18):

No I, I think we know a bit from perhaps family memories, but largely from the testimony he gave at the official inquiry. I think that is, that's our sort of main point of, of, of evidence.

Mel (35:34):

That is a huge story, Lucy. That's a massive account.

Lucy (35:38):

Yeah. I mean, it is fascinating that someone from St. Juan's would be there, you know, on the bridge when a few people see the iceberg to be absolutely

Mel (35:46):

One of the most famous

Lucy (35:47):

IES involved. Right. In the yeah, in, at the heart of all everything that's happening. So what do

Mel (35:52):

We know about some of the other crew members? Well,

Lucy (35:54):

Sadly for a lot of the crew members, we actually don't know a huge amount. We might have the bare bones of their story from census returns, really, you know, where they were based, whether they were living in Southampton when they, when they were recruited as crew members for the Titanic, what their family situation is, you know, where their living whether they're married, have children, that kind of thing. Some of them did give testimony so then we know you know, what part they play. But obviously for those who lost their lives, we know really very little about their stories. It's interesting for the survivors, often if they were put back on a boat, they might have spent a week or two in New York, and then they were, they were put on a boat back to the UK and then often resumed their maritime careers.

Lucy (36:43):

A lot of them only received a week's wages 'cause the ship, they were, you know, recruited as crew on a monthly wage. But because the ship sunk within days of their yeah, the, the maiden voyage, they got like a week's wages. Just unbelievable. Yeah, it was unbelievable. But there, there were various sort of funds, support funds that were created, particularly for the families of the victims of the Titanic. So for crew members who did lose their lives, there were funds that the families could apply to for help and support. I mean obviously there was lots of interest locally in these stories. There were lots of, as there were in, you know, towns all across Britain, there were lots of fundraising events and charity events to raise money for the victims and their families.

Mel (37:33):

And how did the news of the Titanic make its way to Jersey?

Lucy (37:37):

Well, the first reports, and this isn't just Jersey, but you know, generally the first reports coming through of an instant evolving, the Titanic were very confused, fused. And I think the white star shipping line were trying to put a positive spin. They were quite optimistic. The early assessments, I mean, the vessel, as we all know, was described as unsinkable. So I don't think it's that they were trying to mislead people, but they were hopeful that the lack of radio communications from the ship was probably because perhaps there was some electrical interference or, you know, they weren't able to send messages. So the first report, I mean, on Monday the 15th of April, the report in the local paper is it's believed that not a single life has been lost. So that was sort of reflecting, oh God, that's awful. The, the messages that the white star shipping line was sort of putting out.

Lucy (38:33):

And then it's interesting looking day by day how the, you know, the news becomes a lot more desperate, a lot more accurate. So the following day on the Tuesday the 16th at stop press news, Titanic reported, sunk, feared, great loss of life. And then it's so people are starting to really realize the tragedy that has taken place. And there was news that, you know, people, some people had been rescued. The Carpathia was, was the vessel that had picked up a lot of the, the people in the lifeboats that it was proceeding to New York with passengers. I hadn't actually realized that it took four days for that vessel to reach New York. So there was a lot of time before there were any sort of eyewitness accounts or, you know, it was all being done through I guess radio messages. But it was, yeah, very piecemeal that the, the story sort of coming out properly Wednesday, the 17th of April, the headlines are the Titanic tragedy, appalling loss of life, the help that came too late, little hope of any further rescues.

Lucy (39:36):

So, you know, the import of the tragedy has really sort of sunk in at this stage. People are getting much more accurate idea of the scale of the disaster. And then the cha stories start coming through. So on the 18th of April, there's a headline about the channel, channel Islanders on the Titanic. The first one is much sympathy will be felt for Mr. EJ Rasberry, the secretary of the Jersey Football Association, whose brother is one of the crew of the Titanic up to a late hour last night. No tidings had been received regarding his brother's fate. So sometimes there was just, you know, lack of information. So it must have been terrible time for the families knowing that they had a, a, a family member on this boat and not knowing for sure whether you know, they had survived or not. For someone like Mr. Oliver, who, Alfred Oliver, who we talked about this quartermaster.

Lucy (40:29):

There was a report on the 19th of April in the local paper, a telegram was received this morning that Mr. Oliver, one of the crew of the ill-fated Titanic and a brother of Mr. Oliver third lighthouse keeper, cor bier no way is amongst the survivors. And then still another jersey reported as forming part of the crew, Mr. John Po. And it gives the name of hi his father and his address on all St. John's Road. So there was a real interest in these local stories, but a lot of them were, you know, they didn't have information. They had news there that Mr. Oliver had survived, but Mr. Po they weren't at that stage. Sure. In fact, he did survive. So the family got good news eventually. And there's a really nice little detail on Saturday the 20th of April from Mrs. Ile. She's the one whose young daughter was on the on the boat. And it says, Mrs. Ile of Millbrook, whose daughter happily is a survivor from the Titanic desires to express her deep gratitude to the many friends who express such sympathy and solicitude, while her daughter's fate was still uncertain. So, you know, it it, you really get the sense of the emotions involved, the waiting desperately for news, that news eventually coming through, good news for some relief, tragic news for others. Yeah. So it, it is really, really interesting to sort of follow the, the development of the story through the local papers.

Mel (41:52):

Yeah. It's amazing that we have all this as a record as well, that it's so it paints such a descriptive story of, of a community kind of mourning such a, such a something that was so unexpected.

Lucy (42:03):

Yeah. And there were a lots of, I mean, obviously people were reeling from the shock of the news, just the scale of the disaster, the vast numbers of people who had lost their lives. And so here as lots of other places, there were all kinds of funds set up where people could donate money. There were fundraising efforts, they were collecting money in town for the survivors of the Titanic. So, you know, there was a, a huge outpouring of, of grief and people wanting to do their bit to help, you know, the victims of this disaster as there would be as often today in the face of terrible news like this.

Mel (42:34):

Yeah. I can't really even imagine how big it would, it must've been for them at the time to have such news.

Perry (42:40):

It seems to have gripped the kind of entire nation really in, in kind of mourning.

Mel (42:44):

What's really interesting is how fascinated people were by the story at the time. Do you have anything that can expand on, on that experience for them? Yeah,

Lucy (42:53):

I mean obviously people absolutely gripped by all the newspaper accounts as the survivors onboard the Carpathia when they reached New York, obviously they were then able to share their personal eyewitness accounts of the tragedy. And obviously there were loads of journalists and newspapermen there to, you know, collect their stories and, and photograph them. And, and, and the papers were filled with all these stories. It's interesting looking through the papers that within weeks of the disaster, there was a show at the Opera House at the time, it was being used as a, as a cinema. So it was a cinema screening. And they had a film ending with quote, a magnificent colored effect of the last resting place of the Titanic's victims, which seems slightly sort of ghoulish almost. This is, this is in May, 1912, so only a few weeks really after the disaster. And you could, you could go and see this film and they had I think some sort of library shots of Captain Smith and the Titanic, I suppose there were images before it left.

Lucy (43:55):

And then they've sort of added on these sort of, this special effect of the watery grave of the ship. But it was very popular. It had like three sell out performances and then it announced in the paper that, you know, they were extending its run. So there was this real sort of fascination in the story. And I guess we still have that, yeah, today people are still really captivated by the story, but it seems even, I dunno, slightly uncomfortable because this is, this is, you know, it's so raw. It's so fresh and people, you know, may well have known people on board. So yeah, it, it's interesting, slightly odd interest,

Perry (44:30):

You know, when a disaster happens today, we can literally watch videos of the actual disaster happening straight away. It'll be on the news straight away. And I guess they just had to imagine what it could possibly look like, which maybe is why this kind of special effects production was so popular. 'cause Yeah,

Mel (44:46):

Potentially that's, you

Perry (44:47):

Know, the idea of just seeing something like that happen,

Mel (44:50):

I guess when you witness something, it concretes like the process of what's happened. It's like you accept it more 'cause you've seen it, you've witnessed it, but you're right, if there's an element of separation.

Lucy (44:59):

Yeah, a few years later, actually in November 14, we have a postcard in our own collection here where the Opera House put on a new show about the Titanic. So, you know, a few years later it was still a subject of great sort curiosity. And this postcard is a sort of promotional thing for the film, and it boasts quote, unique mechanical and electric effects to tell the story of the disaster in a thrilling manner. So there was still this fascination wanted to be immersed in the experience. There, there was another local connection, interestingly, and in 1958 there was a a film called A Night to Remember, which some people may know, obviously most people nowadays think of the the Titanic ex the Titanic film James Cameron one. But this was in 1958 and the link is that it starred Kenneth Moore, who was a really big actor at the time, but he'd been educated in Jersey and he often sort of voiced tourism films from the islands, that kind of thing.

Lucy (46:01):

So he had a very strong connection to Jersey. And so I think there was a lot of interest anyway in the, in the film. But because of the Kenneth Moore connection, I think Jersey people were particularly interested in, in seeing it. And it was meant to be a very, it was regarded as a very accurate telling of the story because it was based on Walter Lord's book of the same name, which had been published a few years before. And that was all drawn together. It was a minute by minute account of the disaster, but it was all drawn from eyewitness accounts. So it was very rooted in fact, <laugh>, which I think is sort of the main criticism of the, of James Cameron was the version of the film that actually, there were so many amazing real stories. Why did

Mel (46:45):

You have to dramatize it? Yeah,

Lucy (46:46):

Yeah. Why create fictional Yeah. Characters. So yeah, it, it is nice to have those sort of jersey connections to the Titanic story. And we do, we do talk about some of those in the new display. And also things like the Centenery was obviously a really big event in 2012, and over here there was a stamp issue and also a commemorative coin. So, you know, it was, it was a, a date, a tragedy that most people, you know, know quite a lot about. And it was obviously felt that it was a really significant date that was marked by, by the island in those ways with a coin issue and a stamp issue. Mm-Hmm.

Mel (47:24):

You mentioned also, Lucy, that there was a postcard that you've come across in your research and I wondered if you could share for our listeners what this postcard's all about.

Lucy (47:35):

Yes. well, I was very fortunate in that Mandy Butley, our local Titanic expert, had a friend in the UK with a private collection of postcards, one of which included a postcard sent to Jersey by a local man who was living in the UK at the time, Victor Dugway, I think that's how you pronounce his name. It was fascinating. It was sent this postcard on the 10th of April, 1912. So on the day that the ship sailed, he, like hundreds of others, traveled to Southampton to watch this celebrated ocean Lila the Titanic depart on her maiden voyage. It was a day of great excitement. And yeah, he went to the docks to see her off and he sent this postcard back to his family in Jersey that evening. And it just reads Southampton 10th of April, 1912, the Titanic sail this morning at 12 o'clock, she looked magnificent. Hundreds of spectators were on the docks.

Lucy (48:31):

Hope Paul at home are well, would love to all So this message, yeah. You know, that was sort of, obviously it was a really exciting day for him. Wants to share with his family, sends this postcard. Little did he know that a few days later this enormous tragedy would be awaiting the ship, her passengers and her crew. But it's just a nice link between the ship sailing from Southampton and this postcard being sent back to family in Jersey. I dunno how long it took for the postcard to arrive. It probably would've only been a day or two. So you know, it would've been a, a shock to hear the news having seen this postcard. It's a, it is a very nice postcard because it has a pitch of the Titanic and then it has all the facts and figures about her scale and tonnage and you know, all the sort of Kiki details about, you know, what incredible ship she was. So we've got a, a, a scan of that in the in the exhibition. Unfortunately we don't have the original because it is part of a private collection, but the owner of very kind, it allowed us to borrow it and, and scan it. And it is a really nice link from Southampton, the, the ship's home or port city to, to jersey.

Mel (49:40):

And how have you chosen to display these stories in the Maritime Museum? How have you decided to put this little display together? Because as I understand, it's not a large exhibition, it's just a, it's the small little corridor that leads through to where we now have the surfing exhibition. You,

Lucy (49:56):

It's, it's a relatively small display because we don't have big collections or any collections related to the Titanic, but we felt that these stories were significant and it would be really important to tell them at the Maritime Museum. So we've supported it with lots of images with some of the newspaper reports. So I think people will, visitors will find it really, really fascinating even though it, it is a relatively small scale display. But it's an important part of the Island's maritime story. So I'm really delighted that we are now telling it as part of the museum experience.

Mel (50:32):

Brilliant. Well, I really look forward to seeing the exhibition. Thank you for joining us, Lisa. Yeah. Oh,

Perry (50:36):

Thank, it's gonna be amazing. Thank you very much. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to click on the subscribe button for more.