Chief Cowan: Making a Difference in South Carolina Through Innovative Law Enforcement Strategies

Chief Chris Cowan’s journey into law enforcement wasn’t something he planned—it was something he felt called into. Hearing him reflect on the past 30 years, it’s clear that his leadership is rooted in service, faith, and a deep commitment to people. From navigating the challenges of modern policing to building meaningful relationships within the community, Chris brings a perspective that goes beyond enforcement and into transformation.

We talk about what it really takes to lead in today’s environment, how law enforcement is evolving, and why connection, accountability, and communication matter now more than ever. Chris also shares the innovative programs being implemented in his department and how they are creating real impact. This conversation offers a thoughtful, honest look at leadership, service, and the importance of meeting people where they are. 

Episode Highlights

[00:00:38] – I share a life update and introduce Chief Chris Cowan and his extensive background in law enforcement

[03:11] – Chris reflects on how he found his way into law enforcement through faith and purpose

[04:52] – The biggest challenge in leadership: moving from transactional to relational leadership

[05:56] – How his career has shaped his family and the importance of their support

[08:06] – What motivates him daily and how service, faith, and discipline guide his leadership

[10:25] – Addressing public trust, recent tensions, and the importance of communication between communities and law enforcement

[15:26] – His perspective on criminal justice reform, accountability, and providing real opportunities for those reentering society

[21:37] – The School-to-Squad initiative and creating pathways from education into law enforcement careers

[25:50] – Community-focused programs like 50 Fade Fridays and building relationships through presence and conversation

[28:52] – The Citizen Advisory Committee and how community members are directly involved in decision-making

[32:20] – His advice on leadership: the importance of having a coach and continuing to learn

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Everyone has a story to tell. We connect and relate to one another when we share our stories. My name is Amelia Bold, and I am your host of Voices of Inspiration. Join me as I share stories of friends, family, and strangers through my everyday life and travels. Who will laugh, possibly cry, but walk away feeling connected more than ever to those around you and ready to be the change our world needs. Everyone has a story to tell. What's yours?

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Welcome to season two of Voices of Inspiration. I took quite a bit of time off of the podcast over the last year for school and family and health. I had surgery earlier this year, and that set me back. I was in school full-time last year and also went back to the TV film industry. I worked the last three months of the year on a film, getting ready to hop on a show later this week for a month and getting ready to travel again. So things are just picking back up, and I'm just so excited to be back here with you, sharing incredible stories of individuals from around the world, sharing stories of incredible destinations from around the world. I have missed being here. I have missed having you here with me. Thank you for joining me. And I'm just really excited just to jump back into it. Today's guest is a dear friend of my husband's and now mine. Chris Cowan is recognized internationally for his vast network of private and public partnerships and his expansive policing knowledge from 30 years in law enforcement. Chris's extensive experience leading special ops, homeland security, crime suppression, professional development, community policing, media relations, and business and community crime prevention units has given him a unique perspective on what it takes to be a guardian to our communities. He also served as a chief financial officer, chief public information officer, commander of special weapons and tactics units, and commander of community policing units. His passion is holistic policing strategies to provide stability to all citizens and protect the vulnerable through programs that create religious, business, and neighborhood crime prevention. In October 2021, he was named the chief of the newly formed KC Police Department in South Carolina. Thank you for joining me. You and I have known each other for nearly 11 years. We've been on vacations together with our families. Our children have practically grown up together. And while we've done a little bit of work together with in the area of human trafficking, you know, I really haven't taken the opportunity to sit down and ask you about your impressive background and kind of what led you to where you are today. So thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Absolutely. You know, I always love spending time with you guys. So, you know, yeah, absolutely. Anything I can do to learn and grow is what it's all about.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

So I guess let's just jump right into it from the beginning. What inspired you to enter a law enforcement? You know, of course, we always know the little boys are excited, wanting to be, you know, policemen and firemen. Is that is that where it started or did it come later on?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

No, I I if you had asked me when I was in eighth grade or in high school, what was I gonna be when I grew up, I still didn't know. And I still not sure I know what I'm gonna be when I grow up. I'm still a big kid. But you know, no, it wasn't that. I when I graduated Carolina, I was in the RRTC program at Carolina and I went into the Navy as a reservist. And it it was weird because when when I came back to South Carolina, I didn't know what I was gonna do. And I I really am a firm believer in divine intervention. And I believe that at a point it was God's will for me to get into law enforcement and what that means exactly back in 30 years ago, I don't know, other than he had a plan and I was to follow his plan. That's what I've tried to do, and that's why I believe I'm where I am today. And, you know, for the last probably three or four years, I had toyed with the idea of getting out of law enforcement, been blessed with the opportunity to do a little bit of both and on, you know, in the commercial to the civilian side of security and asset protection and human resources. And I think that's helped me. I think one of the things that I'm trying to do in law enforcement is create a business as for us to run our law enforcement agency as a business. We have assets, we have finances, we have commodity. We're we're in the business of a commodity, and those commodities, I think it was uh really, I think it was divine intervention. I think God said, you know, look, this is what I want you to do. I would never have expected it. I would never have expected to be the chief of police. Quite honestly, I would never have expected to be the deputy chief for Richland County, you know, the largest, one of the largest law enforcement agencies in South Carolina for you know, for many years and been blessed with so many opportunities.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

What do you think through this this extensive career of yours has been the biggest challenge?

SPEAKER_00 4:52

I think the biggest challenge for me personally is getting out of my own way. I've always been a transactional person all my life. I've always been, you know, I'm a little bit type A from the standpoint of control, but I'm also a lot OCD from the standpoint, you know, I like my shoes lined up in the closet, I like my shirts lined up. And in and part of my my angst has always been is being transactional, being a transactional leader and learning that you have to move from transactional to relational. And I think over the last probably eight years, I've really learned the hard way how important it is to be a relational and not transactional. And and learning the biggest challenge for me has been learning, you know, look, there is a difference between capacity and capability. There's a difference between success and significance and applying that theory and that practicality has been a big challenge for me, but it's been exciting as I've learned and evolved to be more and more significant driven than success-driven.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

How do you think this role has affected your family?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

You know, it's been it's been kind of neat because as you know, my daughter is in federal law enforcement, my son is in service, he works for an electric company out working on the big electrical lines as alignment, and my wife is in service industry where she's working in a hospital setting. And I think that I don't think there's been any negative impact because my family has always been extremely supportive, has been my primary focus, but they've all been very, very supportive. And every time I've had an opportunity, whether it was to go to England and spend six weeks there to learn and grow personally and professionally, or go to Bulgaria and teach and learn and go to Australia and teach and learn three different times. Every single time, it's never, there's never been any question, whether it was my parents, whether it was Kelly's parents, whether it was, you know, us as a family, it was, yeah, go. And they and they knew that it was going to help me grow personally and professionally. And I had some, you know, some deep personal relationships developed from those trips to England and Bulgaria and you know to Australia. And that those have helped me. I still rely on those people as mentors and coach. I've never had any hiccup or any issues from the family side. I think the impact has been positive. You know, heck, they got to go to Australia with me, thanks to a relationship in the business community. They've got to do different things and create different relationships across the spectrum for them, personally and professionally as well. So I think people need to understand one thing about me is that God and family are extremely important to me. This last year we had a tragedy here at Casey. We had an officer murdered, and I learned more about my faith through that process and became stronger in my faith as a result of that. And I think that's been important to growing my family nucleus and really I think this role kind of taught me how important, not only how important they were, but how much they have supported me in my career.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

I think it's important being in a position such as yours to have that support. I don't think that you could get through the days that that you may have had without that. And with that said, you know, what what motivates you daily on on, you know, every day is not easy. So what motivates you daily?

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Well, it's interesting that you asked that question. One of the things that I teach is that is that whether you're in law enforcement or whether you're in corporate wherever you are all over the world, you have to, you you're an athlete, just like a professional athlete. And you have to make sure that you're hydrating your mind, your body, and your soul every day. And what motivates me is that I keep that in mind. And the joke around here is that that no grass grows under the chief's feet, that that I don't sit still and that I'm constantly going a thousand miles an hour. It's I love that pace. What motivates me is what can I do differently today? To what can I do to be better today than I was yesterday? I live off of the Bible verse Isaiah 6.8. It's actually on the band that I wear in honor of the officer that was murdered. And when, and that's it's Isaiah 6.8, is here I am, send me. And I believe that God places us into situations. You know, Tim's an example of that. I think God put Tim in my life so that Tim and I could help each other through a lot of challenges that he and I've gone through personally and professionally. You know, I think it's important that we realize every day, every day we wake up, we have an opportunity. It's not the day is not given to you to do whatever you want with. The day is yours, in my humble opinion, to do what you can for other people and not to do for yourself, but to do for others. And so I guess directly answer your question, what motivates me is I get up every morning. Kelly and I walk every morning religiously. We make sure that every morning we get together and walk. Now, there's no talking involved because it's morning and I'm not a morning person. So let's make sure we get that clear, right? But we're out walking, we're hydrating our bodies, and we're meaning that we're getting exercise, we're getting out and getting fresh air and and thinking about our day. And we're doing it together. And you know, that way if we do that, if we carve out time, and then from there, I go into my time with God and I spend moments with with Him to okay, what can I do differently today that I that I maybe I didn't do right yesterday? What well how can I serve above myself? And and I ask that question every day because it's very easy to get thinking about yourself, you know, being and so I try to be humble, I try to try to focus on what is driving me. And what's driving me is I love serving. I love I get excited about the things that we can do to make things better for other people. Uh, it's cheesy, but that's what drives me.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

So, you know, the last few years, there's been a lot of unrest from both sides. What would you tell those who are hesitant, maybe even a little fearful of someone that's in your position due to those recent events?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Well, it's interesting that you asked that question because I think that's what one of the things that has to drive us in the next generation of law enforcement. The problem in the US for law enforcement is that there's been so many services for the community that have been taken away. This country has criminalized mental health. We put mental health patients in handcuffs and we put them in the back of police cars and we take them to get mental health services. That's a huge contradiction. We we've criminalized adolescent behavior. If adolescent behavior had been criminalized when I was in high school, I wouldn't be in a cop, I would be in jail because I did some stupid things. We we've so I think that what we have to understand on both sides is is that cops want reform. And I think what what we don't like is the term defund, because in actuality, if you asked the police, the police would tell you take money out of our budgets to provide people the services that they need. Because 85% of what we do has nothing to do with handcuffs anymore. We're not we're in the business, our commodity right now is mental health, mentoring, coaching, teaching, you know, talking to people about where they get their trash picked up, how they get their roads paved, you know, different things. And that's fine. We don't mind doing that. We don't mind being the conduit to provide people service, but we're starting to get out of the business of criminal enforcement and criminal prevention and into this criminalization of adolescent behavior and mental health because all these services are being taken away. The second side of that is what's happened is we stopped punishing people and holding people accountable, but we're trying to hold the police accountable. Police want to be held accountable, we want to be responsible and accountable for what we do. We like standards, that's why we wear a uniform, that's why we have policies, that's why we have a militaristic environment that we operate under, a paramilitary organization with structure. We like structure, we like accountability. What we don't like is the fact that we'll go out and we'll arrest somebody. We had an officer here in Colombia, she was struck by a car, by a suspect in a in a in a in an operation, and she was slammed into her car, fractured, you know, she got hurt very badly. That criminal was out on bond for a violent offense. Now, people make mistakes. Yes, everybody deserves a second chance, but the people we're arresting with guns and drugs and committing violent offenses are eight, nine, ten of ten-time offenders. So, what I would tell people is that is is that establish relationships with your police because your police want those relationships. We are trying to understand here in Casey that there's a difference between the clerical community, the commercial community, and the residential community. We have to police differently in those three groups. And I would tell you that nationally, law enforcement, they were trying to run ourselves more like a business, and we're trying to run ourselves more operationally where we understand the different demographics within the communities that we serve. What we need is people to come to the table and do what we're trying to do, which is we want to listen and learn. But it goes both ways. And so I would say that trust goes both ways, but I would tell you that if you asked, if you walked up to a police officer on the street and said, Hey, listen, I appreciate what you do every day. I'm curious, what percentage of the community do you think doesn't trust or like the police? You would find that most police officers would say it's a very small portion. We know that people love us, we know that people want us in the community. And so that trust, accountability, responsibility, the effort goes both ways. But we have to come to the table and we have to listen and learn on both sides. There are people in the community who don't want to listen and they don't want to learn, and they don't, they want divide. And that what we need is the citizens who do want relationships and they want people to come together, is to go to the people that don't want the divide and say, we're not going to put up with it anymore. We need the police and the police need us. And that's really what it boils down to. You 99.9% of cops put a uniform on for little to no pay. Drew Barr, who was murdered in April, was making$41,000 a year to go into the fight. He went into the fight. We had one officer there. Drew came after him. So the fight was already going on, and Drew drove into the fight and he was murdered for it. And so I would tell you that respect the fact that firefighters, EMTs, and police officers put this uniform on because they care. They really want to make a difference, and they're doing it for little to no pay. We want accountability though. We want reform, but we want people to come to the table and listen and learn as well.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Last season I had Mark Howard on, who is an advocate for criminal justice and prison reform. And you and I have personally spoke a little bit about what he does. And you know, he's really passionate about providing opportunities to those who are incarcerated, specifically education. And I would love to hear your take on this and providing a lot of times he explained to me, and he and we actually went into the DC jail together and met with some uh current incarcerated individuals, and I also met with some that were formerly incarcerated. And oftentimes some of the individuals who went in as young, as you mentioned earlier earlier with adolescents, they just didn't have opportunities for an access for education and things like that. And so Mark and his team really works to bring that into the jail. And I would really love to hear your take on that as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

All right. So you're gonna get me on my soapbox. All right. So let's be careful. But first thing I would say is that we have in this country, we have done several things that are causing the the the what I believe in. This is my humble opinion. I'm not a politician, so I'm speaking from the heart. First and foremost, is we drive people to go to college and get and run up debt. That's the first thing. There are 200,000 vocational jobs available in this country that are not filled because what we continue to do is we continue to have 10, 12, 25, 35 different groups around this country talking about how to solve the problem and not taking action. There's too much discussion and there's not enough action. You know, Amelia, you could be on one board and I'm on another board and we're nonprofit, but we're doing the same thing. And we continue to talk about, we go down this path and we continue to talk about what we can do to better life for people that are incarcerated or for people that are, you know, not don't have a parent in the home. We talk about it and we don't do anything about it. The homeless problem in this country is being discussed, but nothing's really being done about it. So my soapbox is this is that I don't think we're we're truly providing the services for people that commit an offense. They need to be held accountable first and foremost. But secondly, they need to be given the tools to be able to re-enter society. We've taken those tools away. They let's say they go to jail for five years. Well, if you look at technology, the technology that was the same on day one they went into jail, after 12 months, that technology has completely changed. Well, let alone after five years. So they're out of the loop from a technology standpoint, let alone about how society has changed. Yes, they have TV in the jails, yes, they can read. But so my point in saying that is they need life skills. They need to be, they need to be in fairness. If you're put in jail, doesn't mean you're any less of a human being. You should be cared for. And and and we put them in jail and we let them run systems, we let them run amok. We don't provide enough correctional officers to be able to protect themselves, let alone the inmates. First of all, we're not providing services to the inmates for them to be able to be re-entered into society. There aren't enough probation officers to be able to regulate their probation while at the same time providing them services to support them, to coach them, to mentor them. So I mean it's a whole host of issues. I mean, yeah, I guess if the feds would sit down with Amelia Old and Chris Cowan, we could solve everybody's problems. Yeah, but I guess it's it's frustrating for the cops because we believe that it's a very simple solution. And yes, it costs money. I I get that, but so does everything else. So does the reoffense, so does the prosecution, so does the victimization, which is really the most important side of it. So not only does a person, let's say there's a burglary at a home, not only does the person get victimized that owns the home, but eventually the criminal that committed the offense, in my opinion, is victimized somewhere down the road. Yes, they should have known better. But let's say they meant it's a one-time offense. If they're held accountable and then they're they're given the tools to get back into society, and let's say they don't take advantage of it, they don't need to be back out in society. But we have to give them that opportunity. People make mistakes, but not four, five, six, seven, and eight, nine, ten times. And so there's a whole host of issues that have solutions. We have to stop criminalizing mental health, we have to stop criminalizing adolescent behavior, we have to start holding people accountable for the offenses that they make.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

I had the opportunity to meet some just really incredible individuals in DC that had gone through some of these programs and they had been, they really had changed their lives. I mean, one individual who was formally incarcerated and and he went through some business classes and things like that to Georgetown University, is who provides these programs there. And he said to me, he said, Amelia, now before I wouldn't have known any of this. I didn't have access to these things. I didn't come from a background that provided me these opportunities. And now when I walk into a room, I see a business idea everywhere I look. Oh, someone needs to clean the ceilings. Oh, this needs to be fixed. So kind of like what you were talking about of, you know, we really push going to college and getting that four-year degree immediately when you're 18. But there are so many other things that need to be done as well. And he was just so excited and full of life and that he finally knew how to do some of these things and had been told that he could be successful at doing those things versus you're gonna do nothing, you're you're you're not gonna make it, you know, oh, you don't have access to anything. So just, you know, deal with it. But he had been given this essentially new release in the life. So it was really incredible. And I think it's a fantastic program. You were named the chief at Casey Police Department just last year. And since then, you've had quite a few initiatives that you have gone on. It's been a busy year. You have the Dog Therapy Initiative, 50 Faye Fridays, and the Citizen Advisory Committee. So I'd really like for you to share a little bit about those things and what you're doing in Casey. Would be great for your own community to hear, but also for those outside of the community that can might encourage some programs elsewhere.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

The one of the programs that I'm most proud of is our school to squad program. And the reason I bring that up is because what you and I just talked about, and that was the vocational aspect of it. So we've got several historically black colleges here in the Midlands that I believe have got a plethora of talent that is being untapped. And I, interestingly enough, there's a professor at Benedict College who he and I worked in law enforcement for years. And the interesting thing is we never saw eye to eye on anything. We always were at, but we always talked and we always, but with what the one thing that we did come together on was that we wanted to create some sort of a program that we could help the next generation who wanted to get into law enforcement and how they could help law enforcement bridge gaps in the community. So we've started a program here in Casey. It's one of the first of its kind that we think in South Carolina. A buddy of mine in Virginia, who's a police chief, he has a similar school to squad program. Basically, what it does is we take people from school and we put them into a squad in public service while they're still in school. And the idea is to give them full paid benefits and full salary while they're in school and put them into an environment where they start to learn about the criminal justice system, not from a book, but from practical applications. So for example, Miles Pinckney, this kid is a rock star. I call him a kid. He's a he's a he's a he's a grown man, but he's a senior in college. He's been working for me since he was since uh November. So he was a junior at the time. And he's one of our dispatchers. And people say, well, that's just dispatch. Well, let me tell you something about dispatch. I couldn't do it. I can't keep up with all of the technology that they have going on in there and all of the different things. They've got they've got a phone ringing with somebody wanting a wrecker for their car being broken down. They've got a cop calling on a traffic stop, they've got a 911 call coming in, they're running tags, they're they're giving people services for animal control. I mean, all these different things. And Miles can do it by himself. And again, he just started in November. He's also going to school full-time. He's also pledged to fraternity full-time. So he's doing all these things. But the benefit is that he is also helping us learn about not only the next generation, but helping us understand better the African-American community and what these young people in the African-American community believe and feel, what their dreams are. Their dreams matter, and we need to hear that. They need to hear our dreams as well. But he's also talking with our officers, and then he's connecting us with the community that we didn't have. Um, and before I got here, there we we had there was they had roughly 69 police officers within the department doing police services. We well, let me back up. So in October, we divided into fire and police. So there were public safety prior to that. There was a very minimal amount of females in supervisory positions, there was next to no females in supervisory positions, there were next to none African Americans in supervisory positions, and very minimal numbers within our ranks. So we were white representing a very diverse community. And so we've we're working on expanding that both in different initiatives to create qualifications within all of our personnel. We're sending everybody to FBI training for leadership training, for public information training, for relationships and cultural diversity. We've got experts from Cleveland, Ohio, and different areas of the country that are coming in and helping us learn how we can serve. So it's pretty exciting to see where we're going and what we're doing. So the thing I'm one of the programs that I'm most proud of is the School to Squad program is taking these young people, putting them into full-time positions, and creating them the opportunity as they graduate. Because the day he graduates, he will go to the Criminal Justice Academy to be able to go on a patrol. That's his dream. So it's exciting. And we're hoping to get more kids into the I say kids, they're they're grown adults into that. We had a young lady from a predominantly Hispanic college in Tennessee. She came in, she came down and did an internship with us over the summer. Her hope is to be a victim's advocate. So we hope when she graduates, she will come back to South Carolina because she's from this area and she will join our department as a victim's advocate. That's another example of that school to squad, trying to get them to go straight from school to the squad program. Interestingly enough, though, we don't want to do the school to squad program just for college. We want to do it for high school. We want to bring young people in. And I've got two that are possibly starting with us next week in our park safety program, our animal services park safety program, where they'll come in from high school, they'll go into park safety, they'll get some experience there as a class three officer, and then they'll move up into a class one to be a patrol officer. So taking them from high school to a squad and really grow that program. So that's our goal there. We're really excited about our 50 fade program. Everybody says, What's 50 fade? Well, everybody refers to us as the Popo and the 5-0. So we're doing 5.0 fade Fridays, and we've got officers who our foundation is paying for them to go to beauty salons or barbershops on Fridays. We're doing Fridays because Fridays and Saturdays are the busiest time in the barbershops. Now, mind you, obviously, I'm not doing much haircut. I knew you were gonna call me out, but we send them in there because those are the busiest times, and everybody congregates in the beauty salons at barbershops and they talk. And so we sit and we listen and we interact and we establish relationships. So 50 Fade Fridays is a simple way, it helps the officers out because it gives them some money to get their hair cut, it they can get their beards groomed, it helps them maintain their own personal hygiene while it all reduces the impact because they're not paid very much. And that also helps us establish relationships in the communities. We've also got chow down with the clergy and the cops. So every quarter, myself and our my assistant chief, we meet with the leaders in from the clerical community, whether it's from the Islamic community, whether it's Korean community, Baptist, Presbyterian, whatever it is, we come together and we meet for 60 minutes. 20 minutes, we talk about the programs that we're doing, we talk about our policy changes, we talk about the issues and the challenges that we're having. They ask questions for the next 40 minutes or make comments, things that they see. For example, we had the meeting three weeks ago, and one of the things that they talked about was that their parishioners were really concerned about the safety in their schools as they got back into the school year because of everything going on with the school shootings. We took that information, and for the last two weeks, we've been in every school teaching every staff. We have seven schools in Casey. So every school we went into, and we taught active shooter threat prevention, warning signs, red flags, things like that. We've increased our visibility on social media with what we're doing in the schools about safety and our SRO expansion because we've gotten two grants. So we have nine SROs across seven schools. So we're expanding that. So we're taking what we're hearing and we're trying to provide better quality services based on what people tell us, which is a lot of fun. It's exciting.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

You you bring on individuals within your community, correct? To talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

So our citizen advisory council is made up of five citizens in the community, and they each represent a different section of the community. So we have somebody that's retired, somebody that's from the schools, somebody that's from the clerical community, somebody that's from the commercial community, and somebody is from the Hispanic community, residential community. And so what we're trying to do is represent the different demographics of Casey, but also the kind of pockets that want to be policed differently. Here's the fun part. We have a meeting with them, we do a lunch and learn with them, and we present to them three things: any policies that we're changing. We get their we present to them and they give us their suggestions, their recommendations. We present to them any procedural changes or operational capacity growth. So new programs we're doing, new add-ons into our patrol division or victim services or whatever services we're increasing. And then they review internal affairs complaints. So let's say you were on a traffic stop and you were concerned about how an officer handled that situation. We do an internal affairs investigation. We then take that investigation, it's done through attendant and a captain. They then present it to the assistant chief, he makes his assessment, it's then presented to me. We then present it to the citizen advisory committee, and those five citizens have an opportunity to have input into the decision that we made. It's interesting, they've actually on the last two meetings that we've had and the cases that we presented to them, they thought we were too hard on our officers as far as the discipline we enacted. We're going to an education-based discipline system. So if somebody does something wrong, we are requiring them to educate themselves and then present to their team what they've learned from the process. So, for example, let's say that there was an officer that was complained on for speeding and they ran a red light and they weren't going to a call. Well, that's something they should not be doing, right? That's something that we write tickets for. So they're disciplined, whether they lose their car, whether they're written a ticket for running the red light, but they also have to write a paper on why it's dangerous to run a red light. And then they have to turn around and present that to their team. And what we find with that is they're learning things about the community and they're learning things that they didn't know about, you know, speeding and different things. We don't have any officers running red lights, so I just want to clarify. But I just use that as an example. The other side of that is when we have hiring boards, we hire people from the community, we have representation from the citizen advisory committee on the hiring board. If we have promotions, we have somebody that represents the citizens of the community on the promotion board. So on our promotion boards and our hiring boards, you have somebody from human resources from the city, you have somebody from the community from the city, and then you'll have peers that are going to be that would be involved, and then you have supervision. So we're trying to have representation from what would then be able to help us decide who we're hiring, who we're firing, who we're promoting, so the citizens have involvement in that.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

That's really amazing. I'm I'm super excited to watch from afar some of these, how some of these programs evolve over time. I like to ask everyone that I interview the same question. Is there any quote or words of wisdom that you would like to share inspiring our listeners today?

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Oh, wow. Well, humbly I would say if you don't have a coach, note I didn't say get a mentor, get a coach. I believe mentors give people answers. I think coaches encourage people to find answers. I use the example that when I have the day, the first day I got here, somebody came into my office and they said, Hey, I've got a problem. Um, what do I do? And I said, Well, what do you want to do? And they said, Well, that's not how this works, Chief. I come here, you tell me what to do, and I go do it. And I said, No, that's not how that works. They said, Well, I'm afraid I'm gonna make a mistake. I said, A coach encourages people to make mistakes because you learn from mistakes. As long as it's legal, as long as it's moral, as long as it's ethical, make the mistake. It's okay, but learn in the process. So I would encourage people to get a coach. Tim, for example, coaches me in a lot of ways. We talk a lot of times about, you know, personal things going on in our hearts, the things that pull on our heart strings and what drives us to be better. He coaches me in that area. I've got coaches, you know, in Bulgaria and Australia, and people that I can call and say, you know, what do I do in this situation or what should I do? And they never say, well, this is what you should do. They say, What do you think? And then we talk about it and and they coach you through that. So find a coach, whether you're in corporate America, whether you're working, you know, out in the street digging ditches, whatever service that you're providing, whatever commodity you're producing, whatever thing that you're doing, whatever widget that you're responsible for, you can be significant over success if you have the team to help you do that. And that team has to involve you have somebody to support you spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and physically. And the other thing I would tell people is don't stop reading. Learn, you know, continue to learn and listen to others. And I will tell you, I'm never the smartest person in the room. I don't want to be the smartest person in the room because if I think that I am, I've lost my edge every time.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

Thank you. And for those that don't know, Tim, that you have referred to a couple times, is my husband. And we can't share all of his advice that he has provided over time.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Buttercup is probably his best line for me. So he sometimes he'll tell us. You gotta suck it up, Buttercup. You gotta be getting back in the fight.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Exactly. Thank you for joining me and being willing to share your story and being an advocate for so many who need a voice in their corner. I'm really grateful that you took time to be with me today. I know you have a busy schedule, so I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Well, I appreciate what you do because all the things that you've got your hands in are service above self. They're helping other people. You are constantly, I love watching you and the things that you do, and you're constantly doing what you can to help other people, and and so keep doing that. Um I'm really proud of you. I'm proud of proud of everything that you stand for, and and uh I'm honored to be uh be on with you.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you to our listeners. There are hundreds of thousands of podcasts out there, and I'm so grateful you have chosen to be with me today. My name is Amelia, and I am the host of Voices of Inspiration. Everyone has a story to tell. What's yours?