Empowering Direct Primary Care Through Community: Insights From Dr. Jamie Baines and Zak Holdsworth of Hint Health

In this special edition of My DPC Story, we welcome back Zak Holdsworth, CEO and co-founder of Hint Health, and introduce Dr. Jamie Baines, DO and founder of Kite Dream Care. Dr. Baines shares her journey of opening a DPC practice, the challenges she faced, and how Hint Clinical EMR and Hint's Launch Bootcamp program and integrated clinical tools have supported her success. Zak shares insights into Hint Health's mission, development of the Hint Clinical platform, and future enhancements on the horizon designed to empower DPC physicians and clinicians. Check out Hint Clinical and join the next Hint Launch Bootcamp today!

Transcript

Maryal Concepcion, MD: 0:00

Welcome everybody to the special edition of my DPC story. I'm super excited to be returning to the mic with Zach Holdsworth, the CEO and co-founder of Hint Health. But also today we have a new voice in the podcast. And that voice is from Dr. Jamie Baes. She's a do, and she is founder of Kite Dream Care. Now, something to note about Dr. Bain's practice is that she only opened a year and two months ago, and yet she has a full practice, a waiting list of 40 people, and she has already brought on her next doc coming, this fall, and she is also looking to potentially hire for the summer. So definitely keep your ears open as you hear Dr. Bain's story. And Zach, thank you again so much for coming back on the podcast as we have talked about many a time and I continue to talk about, hint has been supporting. As a company and as the people within the company, the DPC movement, since the first day that you guys opened, you really started with, something that was helping us as DPC physicians have a tool that helps us, be basically an administrative assistant and more helping us keep track of the finances and our memberships. The mission started with that, and it has continued to grow. And we're going to be focusing on how Hint has grown as a company and how Hint clinical in particular has helped people like Dr. Bas open and be so successful at practicing DPC. So thank you again so much both for joining us today.

Zak Holdsworth: 1:22

Thanks for having us.

Jamie Baines: 1:24

Yes, agreed.

Maryal Concepcion, MD: 1:25

Awesome. So, Dr. Baes, I wanna go back to the opening days of your practice because, I'm wondering if you can share with us what was your experience opening your own medical practice.

Jamie Baines: 1:38

Sure. Well, I, I mean, it is scary to open your own practice. I had reached a point in my life where I felt like I, I practiced for 10 years at my group of four and three years before that I lived and practiced in my hometown. And it was just becoming impossible to service the level that I needed. I was seeing 30 patients a day and, and squeezing everybody in, worked every third Saturday. I mean, we were really, I still did inpatient on newborns and peds, and so it was family practice as you imagined it, but in a time where it didn't work. Like the story of most people, I was really burnt out. I was struggling. I, I, I, it, it was tough. And I had been thinking about it for many years and it got to the point where one day that was the next choice for me. I think actually maybe the hardest part is like the risk of leaving. I, I was afraid to tell my patients. I mean, at that point I'd been with many of'em for 10 years, and my coworkers and my colleagues and the other doctors in my practice to leave was really scary and, almost for me, harder than, setting up a practice. And so I started looking around, and looking at EHRs and, came through, DPC groups just came across Hint, had meet and greet with them and they really told me like, Hey, we have this great cohort, bootcamp program where. It's a pre-enrollment program where for 12 weeks we train you and teach you and prepare you to open a direct primary care practice. And I was like, wow, okay. I, because I don't really know how I, I finally found the courage to, to leave. And now, and at this point you kind of, you're like, okay, I can, I can learn things. And more importantly, like I'm with a cohort who's doing the exact same thing at the exact same time, and beyond like. How to choose a location, how to, uh, like find a lawyer, how to write a contract. All those, like they've started with like, what is your why? And that really was impactful to me because really like every decision later when you're stuck and you're trying to make a a big growth decision, it comes back to like, what is your why? And, is this moving in that direction? so it started with that foundation, identifying that, like mapping your vision and then getting into the logistics, which, where, you know, beyond it presented in a really creative way beyond, oh, like this checklist. I can, I mean, I can read a checklist. There are plenty of checklists on the internet or ai, but when they pair it with like inspiring podcasts and other people chiming in, in like a weekly group meeting, it, it was just really helpful. that got me going. And, and then you can bounce your energy off of the other new people and bounce your energy and your fears and your, your, or there's just so much emotion. That was what I was feeling the first couple weeks. And then in the launch, by that time, I've, I had already gone through 12 weeks of all the steps, collaborating with other people, asking my questions. The launch kind of was okay. I mean, to, in the journey of anything great, there are ups and downs. And when my furniture didn't come in and I was open, that was a down. But patients understand, like you just tell your journey. You tell your story, you say like, I'm trying something new that I've always wanted to do and I've always wanted to practice medicine in this way. And I can practice medicine without furniture. I can practice medicine without a space and they're fine.

Zak Holdsworth: 5:27

It humanizes you as a doctor.

Jamie Baines: 5:28

Yeah.

Zak Holdsworth: 5:29

If you don't have furniture and, and you explain the story and the why, I think it's actually really cool.

Maryal Concepcion, MD: 5:34

Yeah, I totally agree. And I just, I really love that. This podcast is called my DPC story because I really think that it is through finding people and connecting with people, even if it's just hearing their stories, knowing that you're not alone is so important in this journey of physician entrepreneurship. And Zach, as we talk about this bootcamp and it's helping people from their prelaunch days, I would love if you could tell us a little bit about Hints Launch Days. Because again, you guys at Hint have gone from this membership management and billing software to including education Absolutely. Through things like the bootcamp as well as Hint Summit that's coming up August, of this year. And also you guys thought about bringing to market an electronic health record that is with continuous feedback from the community of its users. So I would love if you could just zoom us back to the beginning and tell us how we got here, such that you guys are bringing more than just software to the DPC community.

Zak Holdsworth: 6:30

Yeah, and actually just before I jump in that Jamie, you may not know this, but when we were launching the, the bootcamp, you were actually, I think a PI in the pilot. Uh, version first one. Oh, yeah. And, and actually I, I was, it was something I've been wanting to do for a while, so I was co-creating with a few team members in part of our community, but the version you had was like, pretty rough, honestly compared to where it's got to since, since that one. But yeah, thanks for being a really great participant and a lot of your feedback actually made its way back into the, the new version I knew was great, which I don't have anything to do with now.'cause, you know, they like kicked me out of the room once, once I kind of got it going. So yeah, but I think, Mario, just to, to answer your question, when we started the company, you know, 12 years ago, I, so I like to say 10 years.'cause I, I feel old when I say 12, but, me and my co-founder were, were trying to figure out like this, the system's so broken and we were entrepreneurs wanting to do something in healthcare to try to fix the system. And whenever we came across a new idea. Most of the ideas we had, if you just play them out, they just make the system kind of more, it. It's maybe they slightly improve the system, but the system's still compounding at 12% a year in terms of costs and doctors getting less and less happy and so on and so forth, right? Like it it, even without a little incremental thing, if you go forward 20 years, the system just way more broken and we were trying to figure out what is a concept or a problem we can try to help solve that. If in theory, if everyone in America ended up with this thing, it could transform, it actually fundamentally transform the system from first principles. And we kept coming back to this sort of renegade group of doctors that were doing this kind of. Very different thing that no one really understood and, but when you, and there was like less than a hundred of them and it just like, we kept coming back to it and go, well, it can't be that. And then we'd go look at something else and then what, eventually we always just end up coming back to, wow, if everyone had this thing right then. It, it actually would fundamentally transform US healthcare. And so that became kind of almost like our mission is the power is to help enable and empower this movement, this direct primary care movement and help make it the new standard. So that became the sort of rubric for what we do as a company. So one of the things as technologists we're like, okay, what are, you know, we evaluate what tools the doctors were using and they were using spreadsheets to like manage their memberships at the time. And we're like, well, we could probably do better than that. So we started out with kind of the membership management side of things. And that could evolved. You know, our customers got more sophisticated. They started working with employers, they started running networks, they started scaling, you know, just all sorts of things, but still just down that trajectory of running and administering the sort of business model side of A DPC. So we spent a bunch of time building that out and we, we are now, you know, doing, you know, billions of dollars of payments and, success on that side of the business. The other thing though is with that mission of enabling the, the sort of movement was part of what this movement needs is kind of venues for inspiration or venues for like collaboration venues for shared learning, you know, for spreading the word of DPC. And so that was sort of the first Hint summit you know, we were like, Hey, why don't we bring people from our community together and just sort of see what happens, right? And that became the foundation of now Hint Summit. we think it's the right thing to do because it helps push forward the movement. And I think bootcamp is another kind of example of this where we are like, if we can just, like Jamie said, there's like lots of checklists and stuff out there, but what I think is. Much more powerful than a checklist is like the shared experience and the shared sort of accountability of doing something with peers. It's the part of university that's actually really valuable. Where you are learning with other people, right? As opposed to the actual content, you could probably Google it, right? It's, it's this shared experience and we're like, well, can we, we've got this, you know, community, can we help harness and bring that to the table? And we've started with groups that are launching, right? But the vision for community is that it becomes a place for, you know, once you've launched as well, it should be really valuable and as you continue to grow and so on and so forth. So I think that's was the, the genesis for, the Deep Sea Launch Bootcamp. And honestly when we launched it, I was like, I told my team I'm just gonna launch this. I'm not even sure if it's gonna work. Jamie was then the pilot and people loved it. We're like, cool, let's, let's actually do it properly now and like actually scale it up. So now we're doing a new bootcamp every month. Right. Um, and, and it fills up actually as a wait list for it, which is cool. And then to maybe to, to get to your point is around the, the hint clinical part of the story, which is what we were finding is historically our strategy has always been, um, you know, we do the billing and administrative side, but then we integrate with all these EMR partners and we still actually pursue that strategy today. And we are really excited about our EMR partners, but what we're finding is that it was kind of hard to control our destiny on that dimension.'cause there are many, well, some, some, some sort of technology companies in the space just are not willing to partner or not willing to integrate and. It sort of was creating a little bit of a, almost like a us versus them thing. And we're like, okay, well what, you know, and it was hard for us to control our destiny on that dimension. So we're like, okay, well, well let's continue these really healthy partnerships, but let's also have an answer to this problem. If I'm a DPC that's getting started and wants to succeed, let's, let's create an integrated product that's really easy to use. And that sort of simplifies the process of getting started and really heavily invest in that, um, with a focus on DPC, right? Like, so it's exclusive, you know, sort of really laser sharp focus on, on DPCs and take feedback from the community and continue to iterate that product. Um, and yeah, that's, and that was something that we've been sort of gently being pushed by our community to do for probably five years. And we thought we, we should probably just do that. And so that's, that's why we moved into that space. And so now we're. Where we are today and you know, is, hasn't always been, you know, it's smooth. There's, there's been some ups and downs, but I'm really excited about where we're at and where, um, where the product and that vision is going.

Maryal Concepcion, MD: 12:39

Zach, can you tell us a little bit more about how does one get started with the Launch Bootcamp, um, once they have decided to partner with Hint Clinical?

Zak Holdsworth: 12:47

if you're already a Hint user and have a Hint login, you can just go to community.hint.com, HIN t.com and inside of there there'll be links to bootcamp if you're already in a process with one of our sales, uh, team members and you've sort of made contact with Hint, if they haven't already mentioned it, you can just ask, Hey, I'm really interested in bootcamp, and they'll, they'll make sure that you make your way to the right place. If you're kind of new to Hint and you, you haven't kind of figured out how to get involved, you can either just go through our Hint clinical page or that we actually have a dedicated page as well for bootcamp where you can go to hint.com/bootcamp. Uh, and whichever path you go, we'll make sure that you, you're, you make it into the, the program if you're interested in it.

Maryal Concepcion, MD: 13:30

And we'll make sure if you are checking out the blog, uh, accompanying this podcast episode, the links will be there. So you can click on those and they'll be in the show notes as well. So, Dr. Baes, I wanna turn to you because one of the things that I think really attracts people to hint clinical in particular is the all in one solution that people think about, wow, this can help me with, and I'm wondering if you can fill in that with blank from your perspective, because you opened as a solo doctor, as a person who had not necessarily been, you know, opening their own clinic before, and yet you have chosen this tool that allows you to do a lot of different things all in one piece of software.

Jamie Baines: 14:11

Yes. Um, and. I didn't even hire a virtual assistant until like two months ago. So it was just me with a full practice. And my husband has a, an a different job that works full time. So he wasn't my secret helper, it was just me. Okay. So yes, it's amazing. Everyone knows that the billing for Hint is, is like the best out there. The automation of that it's completely streamlined. But as you said, I didn't wanna like float between the combo that people often say of hint for billing, elation for EHR Spruce for communications. And they told me Hey, we are working on building our EHR and this is our roadmap. There had been some roadblocks in it, but. Each quarter they announced their changes and now those things are like fully functioning. Within that system then my EHR is, tagged into my communications and My text messaging then is integrated into the chart. My patient's email is integrated in chart. Their billing is integrated into the chart. And, and it's cost effective.'cause I have like one program so let me just go back to the startup phase in particular. I quit my job in January. I created a tentative launch date of May 1st, it was free while I did the h Hint community cohort of like how to set up a practice still free. And then the first month was free as well. So that really took a financial burden off my plate where it felt like I had gone to university and I would've paid like thousands of dollars for a college credit course to teach me a business degree. And it was fun, I was so excited because finally we are practicing medicine in a functional way. Like my doctor friends who, are still like using Epic and work in hospital systems, I, I was like, oh my gosh, you guys look at this, this patient just texted me, Hey, I got my same UTI that I get. Um, Cipro always works. Can you send it into my pharmacy that's on file? And I texted back, yes. Sending in right now. That also goes into their chart. It's documented. I just pull up the prescribing, send it in their pharmacy's already on file and done, like, I don't have to write a note because the text message is the note and they get a text message from my dose bot that says I sent the prescription in. Because in the past I have said I sent it in and forgot. Um, but it's confirmed like all the loops are closed. And that would've been like, I don't know, 30 minutes worth of, of back and forth. And like all of these questions and, my, other medicine friends are like, oh my gosh, I can't believe it. Like, could be that easy. Or they were laughing because that message. Wouldn't have gotten to'em to the next day or they wouldn't have them on their schedule to the next day. Everything would've been escalated. Like, I mean, you create your scenario. It's just so practical.

Maryal Concepcion, MD: 17:16

I love that. And I really wanna highlight here that it really makes a difference to have A-D-P-C-E-H-R that was built by somebody who understands DPC. And that person has been on the podcast, Dr. Brad Brown, he is the medical officer for Hint Health, he has continued on as it became Hint Clinical. And I'm so glad to hear Dr. Baes, how your experience has been, you know, put in from dream stage into action and it's affecting your practice to the point where you just hired a VA and you are already full. So, Zach, I would love to hear if you can share with us stuff that is, coming down the pipeline for future users and people like Dr. Baes to use in the future.

Zak Holdsworth: 17:57

When we sort of started working on the EMR project, we, we quite, as you mentioned, Dr. Brad, who's now a medical director who acquired their company. And there was really promising startup that was, you know, seemed to resonate with the community and we were looking for a path. And so that we sort of came together there. And, you know, we, we, I'd say when we made that acquisition, it was a very new product and there was just a lot of foundational work that was required to kind of bring it up to scratch. In terms of the compliance stuff we do, the scalability stuff we do that is kinda user experience. The integration with, you know, our core product, uh, the underlying databases. And there's just like a ton of work that had to go in, which, you know. Probably users didn't really notice honestly what was happening. Right. Very much in that phase. And I'd say just because we weren't really doing much feature, you know, customer facing features we're more like shoring up the foundation. I'd say the, the primary thing I'm excited about right now is about nine months ago or something. There was a really big pivot from more like shoring up the foundation and kind of fixing some broken stuff to like aggressively building new capabilities that actually I. Create value for our customers and that are things that our customers are asking for. And so one of the big ones, for example, is like we were using an, um, an a sort of a partner that was, you know, for, for calendar, for our calendar system. And it just was really, wasn't working well. It was tons of bugs and we couldn't really control it because the partner was weak and da da da. So we actually spent like six months rearchitecting and rebuilding from scratch that all that infrastructure so that we can control that experience in a way that we want to Right. Create this really clean experience for our customers. So, so you know that, that would be sort of one example of something we replaced the e-prescribed vendor because it wasn't working out. We replaced the fax vendor that wasn't working out. We replaced the database. It's just like tons of work we did, which again, like customers will have started to see. But now the stuff I'm excited about is, you know, the big focus this year is overhauling two big parts of the experience. The first is the communications. Um, experience. And I'd say where that started was more just making the existing communication system like less, less buggy and just more functional to be, to do what sort of our customer would expect a comm system to do. Where we going with that now that we control that foundation is things like the ability to, you know, um, to, to deliver care within the actual text message. Some of the stuff Jamie just mentioned, how do we, you know, enhance the collaboration between care team members as it relates to kind of virtual communication, things like that. And what are things we can do to kind of really enhance the. The sort of connectedness of between communication and the rest of the charting experience and the data that sits in, in our, in our EHR. So that's one kind of big area of investment I'm excited about. The other big area is actually overhauling the charting system. So we're, again, we, it started as like quite basic system where we were hitting with it is like a lot of the work that's just been done is like replacing a lot of the underlying data structures so that we're able to actually have more structured data about what's happening in the charting experience. Which should enable us to tons of really interesting and exciting things in the future. Um, because we now have a kind of, again, a better foundation for, for charting. Um, and you know, things like reporting and data analytics, things like deeper integrations with other partners that our customers are working with where, let's say there's a, a workflow triggered on let's say a vaccine, you know, workflow for example. Or, maybe it's a fax workflow or there's some type of workflow that's triggered the ability for us to. Have that data. When data comes back to hint, put into a structured place and from there, be able to do interesting, exciting stuff with that data. And so there's a lot of things that that will unlock from a partnership perspective and from a feature perspective. I'm really excited about that is foundational work that's been going on in the background that is now sort of coming into the, the chart. And then I'd say that the other thing is that we've really, really been pushing towards is, is. A cadence of trying to just release small, delightful things that our customers are asking for, where it might just be small, little nitpicky things. We we're trying to get to a play we to a place where there's a, you know, basically we call it customer delighters. We're doing, you know, 10 or 15 a month small things. Uh, which, you know, Jamie's probably asked for something in the past and then like, oh no. Jamie, have you got an examples of something you asked for that just showed up? I

Jamie Baines: 22:45

was going to say that is one of the things I love coming from Allscripts, where I had to wait on hold to listen to like a third party help support overseas now. I mean, I know all your support staff by like first name and, and they sometimes like reach out to me and said, Hey, what do you think about this new upgrade? Can, uh, tell me, tell me if there's anything we should improve. And, or, or I'll be like, Hey, I have to push this button three times. Is this just me or is this a bug? And they'll say, oh, thanks for bringing it to my attention. We'll get it fixed like next day button fixed. It's, it's unbelievable. And then I went to the Hint, summit and I was like, oh my gosh, you're Jennifer with the pH. Like, because I see their names and I see their profile. And I was like, you're Jennifer. And, and we we're like, it was so special to like meet the team, your kt, um, and, and be directly involved. And so they, you know, that doesn't happen really anywhere else. Um, so if you want to like, make an opinion, an impact or like control, help control your destiny, everything that Zach was saying, they make transparent and they ask our opinion every step on the along the way. And if you don't want to, if that's not your goal, you can just float and reap, reap the benefits. But like as probably most type a high achieving doctors, uh, I like to give my opinion and have a preferred workflow and structure and they actually like accommodate that. And it'll even go one step further. Okay, so I've only been here for a year and two months. I went to the, um, the Hint Summit by myself, didn't really know anybody. And I, I like everyone you can to go up to everyone. I like went up to Zach and I was like, hi, I have this idea. I'd like to like collaborate with some other people about workflows. Um, do, do you think we could do this? And he was like, absolutely, like, connected me the next day and started a, and like created an event, uh, uh, a web webinar, um, with the hint support staff for me to like present my idea and get help. Um, so that, that like doesn't happen anywhere else. I know. Yeah. One, one of the really interesting examples of this playing out was, you know, we were doing, as I mentioned, we were doing some work around, um, kind of. Re-architecting the, the charting experience. And, and so, and part of that was just like redesigning the interface. And so we did interviews with dozens of doctors and every single one of them wanted a different thing, like, and we're like, oh my God, what's going on right now? And so what that manifested as is actually the team is like, you know what we need to put pause on. We actually need to make a system that allows the doctor to have what they want. So I don't know if you can kind of see this, but, so what we actually launched was, oh, I don't if I can screen share, but was the ability to. Oh yeah, I can, I can screenshot. Okay. Yeah. Cool. So what we did is we actually, what we ended up launching is the ability for every doctor to have the chart the way they want it, where they can just do whatever they want and like that we launched that feature and there's a bunch of other stuff you can kind of do here and you can add stuff, remove stuff. I want to kind of turn this into a demo, but what we found is we launched that feature and then within like 24 hours, it was like 90% adopted or something. Because again, like that feedback from the customers about like what is, what authentically they need to like improve their lives. And again, like we, we really were resisting the temptation. Like we're not gonna build something that we're not gonna build something that allows anyone to do anything they want. But almost a hundred percent of people were like, this is what we want. So we're like, okay, well maybe we actually do have to do that. So that actually pivoted our roadmap. Like we were about to build something else. Like we had designs, we had like code of, we were in a position, we were actually about to start cutting code and we actually stopped and then launched this before we did the stuff we were trying to do. So that was like a really fast pivot around feedback. We were getting consistent feedback from the community. And that's, I think, the benefit of having such a focused community because a lot of the feedback you get is consistent and people want. The same stuff basically. Right? There's, and there's just, the problem always is you have more stuff to do than everyone combined wants. So we are going through it as quickly as we can. Um, but that's, that's one of the things I'm really excited about is being able to, to partner with the community in this way.

Maryal Concepcion, MD: 27:25

I love that. In closing here, Dr. Bes, I would love if you could share with us how you're going to use Hink clinical as you bring on this new doctor in October. And as you bring on potentially another in the future

Jamie Baines: 27:37

yes. Okay. So I did a lot of thinking about this.'cause as Zach says, like each direct primary care. Office is, is really different and functions different. And while some people bring on, like mid-levels or, and, and share their patients, I decided we are having very independent, unique, different practices where there's not a lot of, of sharing of patients. So we decided that the best way was to open another account. So they said, okay, if, if you want to see everything and have everything grouped as one practice, open it within this way. But we're opening two accounts so that we can, keep our faxes separate, keep our text messages separate, keep our, our phone line separate, and then log in as guests to the other persons. And then consequently. It's free while I'm preparing. So for the next four or five months, I'll load in like all the dot phrases, all like and set.'cause I've, I've already done this. I don't need to like reinvent the wheel again. I just had to identify what I needed, what I wanted, and they directed me what works best for me.

Zak Holdsworth: 28:43

On that point, I think one of the things that we have, I'd say. Tried to kind of instill into our ethos at Hint. As you know, there is a lot of commonality with DPC for sure, especially in this sort of the, the underlying principles and the sort of why. But what we've seen in practice though, is there's just like a lot of different variability in how different clinics operate. And so as a kind of a technology company, we've tried our best to enable the system to have the flexibility to operate the way that they, that you want to operate as opposed to being prescriptive, like, this is how you need to use the system. And that, I will say that like operating that way does increase the cost of development, right? Like it is harder to build a technology platform that is. Flexible, but also simple and easy to use and can be used in many different ways like that, that actually just can introduce complexity. But I think it has been you, it's it's harder to do if you wanna also make the system simple to use. Right? So there's a sort of a set of trade offs there. And that's one of the things that we've been, you know, we've, we've tried to keep in the front of our mind. It's like, it's not, we are not the innovator here. We are the enabler of the innovator. So like we, we kind of trying to play that, that role in the ecosystem, if you will.

Jamie Baines: 30:07

Yeah, I, I, I, I had trouble explaining it, but basically I had to identify what I needed and what I wanted and what worked best for my practice. And, and, and that was not sharing texts, not sharing faxes, not sharing emails, and like, have essentially two different systems. And, and then you told me, okay, this is what you need to do where, there are just different styles and, and I kind of thinking was like who I, I I thought a lot of practices would be similar. It turns out they're not.

Zak Holdsworth: 30:39

Yeah. And you are actually leveraging one of the capabilities that allows, fully and separated instances. We've built features that allow you to maintain a single login so you don't have to, you know, log into many, many different systems and have many different passwords. So that kind of improves security as well. But yeah, there, there are other ways to, around like, you know, a lot of the time you just add a clinician and there's sort of permission stuff that you can do that sort of gates information or whatever. But yeah, flexibility I think is, is kind of one of the keys. So,

Maryal Concepcion, MD: 31:09

well, I am so grateful to both of you and Dr. Baes. I really loved how you are dreaming and implementing that dream and I, I just really think that it important for people to think about when they're using an EHR, when they're partnering with different solutions out there to think about where is your clinic today? Where do you want your clinic to be in five years? And having a tool that is nimble and flexible enough to help you get there. It's amazing. So thank you guys so much both for being on the podcast today, and I look forward to seeing both of you at Hint Summit.

Zak Holdsworth: 31:41

Yeah. And I'll just close out by saying, you know, Jamie, she's just really engaged and like, uh, excited about what we're doing at Hint and, and just really positive and, and maybe just an invitation to, to, yeah.

Jamie Baines: 31:52

Yeah. More people. I'm looking for friends.

Zak Holdsworth: 31:54

yeah. You have some subset of people that are really active and, and a lot of people watching what's happening. We're please, you know, engage. Like, we love connecting with people. We love feedback. A lot of what we end up building is based on the feedback of the most passionate people in our community. So if you, if you have perspective and you want to be involved, like please do let us know.'cause, like Jamie said, we live to support, you know, this community. I'm

Jamie Baines: 32:16

looking for friends and colleagues and like-minded people who also want to participate and engage that's what's really special about this. And, and that's why, um, I'm here.