Legally protecting yourself and your customers is an essential part of being a creative entrepreneur. No matter what stage of business you are in or how big your company is, you need to make sure you’re covered. Business lawyer and legal contracts expert, Autumn Witt Boyd joins Emily to discuss the legal updates you need to know about, what you should review every year to stay protected, and what you should expect to see in the not-so-distant future.
Get full shownotes for this episode here >>
Legally protecting yourself and your customers is an essential part of being a creative entrepreneur. No matter what stage of business you are in or how big your company is, you need to make sure you’re covered. Business lawyer and legal contracts expert, Autumn Witt Boyd joins Emily to discuss the legal updates you need to know about, what you should review every year to stay protected, and what you should expect to see in the not-so-distant future.
Get full shownotes for this episode here >>
Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms. I'm your host Emily Thompson and in this episode I'm joined by online business lawyer Autumn Witt Boyd to check in on what you need to be updated on as a business owner in 2023. You can find all the tools, books and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club. And if you liked this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend. Whether you want to grow your business with content marketing, social media or speaking on stages or in highly produced zoom rooms, I've got a podcast recommendation for you. Queue up an episode of The Shine Online hosted by Natasha Samuel brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network the audio destination for business professionals. On her show Natasha interviews the brightest entrepreneurs she knows to bring you no fluff advice, honest discussions about the mental health and lifestyle aspect of entrepreneurship, and actionable strategies and success stories of those who've mastered the art of shining online in this conversational podcast with some hard hitting episodes on marketing your business and filling the latest of her lineup. Give it a search and listen to The Shine Online wherever you get your podcasts. Autumn Witt Boyd is a lawyer who helps million dollar coaches and online business owners build sustainable profitable companies. She provides sophisticated legal guidance with copyright and trademark protection, contracts, team building, and problem solving. Along with her team at the AWB firm she loves helping online educators courses memberships and digital products grow their dream business with approachable advice and the right legal protections at the right time. The AWB firm also offers customizable contract templates that are quick and easy to complete and cost a fraction of working one on one with a lawyer. You can find Autumn in Chattanooga, Tennessee hanging out with her three kids and husband reading a good book or sipping a glass of champagne before bedtime. Autumn has been a regular here on the beam ball show over the years. And if you'd like to hear more about her, you can go check out the following episodes, all of which are found in our show notes at beingboss.club. She has been a guest on episode number 72, 236, 252, 285 and 317. Hi, Autumn, welcome back.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Hi, Emily.
Emily Thompson:It's good to see your face.
Autumn Witt Boyd:It's so good to see your face.
Emily Thompson:I feel like we have to give like a like a cocktail hour update.
Autumn Witt Boyd:We finally did it. It takes an act of Congress.
Emily Thompson:It does it.
Autumn Witt Boyd:We've got sick people. We've got just stuff going on.
Emily Thompson:Always something.
Autumn Witt Boyd:But we did it. It was lovely.
Emily Thompson:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So if this is the first time you've heard Autumn here on the show, Autumn is local to me. She's actually just down the street from me today. I thought we maybe could do this in person. And I was like that is too many things.
Autumn Witt Boyd:We'd have to move all of our stuff.
Emily Thompson:To many things. We're just going to record remotely but very nearby. And we like to have drinks together occasionally. And...
Autumn Witt Boyd:That's no the only thing we do together.
Emily Thompson:No, that's not the only thing but like but isn't it? Sometimes there's actually there's always food involved.
Autumn Witt Boyd:There's always food.
Emily Thompson:But over the past
Autumn Witt Boyd:And good conversations. Yeah.
Emily Thompson:Indeed, indeed, over the past couple of years though it's been a little difficult because of obvious reasons. And this year, there was a couple couple things that happened along the way. But we got together for our annual end of the year. It's usually the last couple of days of work. We get together for cocktails, we have a nice clink, and it's like cheers. We did it again. And it's become one of my favorite annual traditions. And I just need everyone to know that it happened.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Well, and it was especially special this year because I had a big milestone in my business that I like just realized that day and it was so fun to celebrate with you in person.
Emily Thompson:Yeah. And what was that milestone? Do you want to share?
Autumn Witt Boyd:I can. Yeah, we hit a million dollars in revenue last year, the AWB firm for 2022.
Emily Thompson:Right? And I will cheers to that all day every day. I'm so excited for you. And you know it's so funny you telling me those things because I do remember whenever we first met years ago you were just getting started and here you are meeting that big milestone.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I was a little baby boss.
Emily Thompson:You were with baby boss. Now you are the most Boss Boss. Well good. I'm very excited to chat with you today. It has been a whole year since you were here recording a show for us. I've enjoyed having you on the past couple of years to come on and do a sort of like legal recap, right of like what's happening in the world of online business. I feel like and you know, traditional business mean things change but not super often. But as we are in online space, things are, in some cases getting defined for the first time. So I love having you on at least once of once a year to get us all up to date as to what is happening. But before we get onto that, I want to know what's been happening with you. So you meet reached a big milestone, but what did 2022 look like for you and your firm?
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, it was a great year, we obviously.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:We, we really kind of focused on loving on our current clients last year. So we did not onboard as many new clients, we had some changes in personnel, which, you know, can be challenging and can take time to, you know, off board, find the new right fit, you know, bring them into our culture. So we kind of took the time we might have spent on marketing, and really kind of, like I said, loved on our current clients, and, you know, really focused on building the team and making that really strong. So we ended the year, I think, more intertwined or more, I think we've become a really integral part of a lot of our clients businesses, and that is just an absolute joy for us. We really love supporting them that way and having them I don't love them calling us when things are going bad, but it is, you know, we love celebrating with them, like when they hit big milestones, or they're bringing on new team members launching something new, and then you know, being there to kind of hold their hand when things are not going so well. So that that was pretty much our big theme of last year. We did not really we, we were literally almost at that revenue mark that year before. So we really didn't grow a lot. But we had grown a lot the prior two years. So the last year was kind of a stabilizing year, like we had to rebuild some of our systems to just accommodate the number of projects that our current clients are sending us, which is, which is great.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:And I don't do that work. It's not my gift. We have an amazing team member who does. So shout out to Brooke, our systems person.
Emily Thompson:Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. I'd say it's so fun hearing from business owners who are in those phases, and then looking at the year ahead, because I feel like over the past couple of years, we've all had a year or two over the past couple where it's like this where like things need to be stabilized, like you've grown a whole lot. And then you've hired some and you've had to go in and and fix some things in the business to make things run more smoothly, whatever it may be. And then there's a year where ideally you get to enjoy that and capitalize on it in a way that like you know, you've done all the hard work. And you've created the structure. Now what can the business do? And I feel like this gets to be the year for you.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I think so yeah, I don't want to say we're gonna coast because I think we're gonna kind of take off like a rocket a little bit
Emily Thompson:Soar.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, oh I love that.
Emily Thompson:Yeah, you should soar.
Autumn Witt Boyd:That's great.
Emily Thompson:Similar vibe, but like, but different. But different. Okay, good. That's very exciting. I'm very, very glad to hear that you're moving into 2023 with such opportunity on the horizon, and was such a great like business structure beneath you to help you do the thing. Now let's talk about all the dirty work. Or not, that is unfair, I should not call it the dirty work. This is these are the things that. It's funny, it keeps us up all night thinking about all these things. And this is literally your day to day job, right? All of these like legal things.
Autumn Witt Boyd:It's all the bad stuff.
Emily Thompson:All the things that are getting defined and thrown at us at any moment, whatever it may be. So let's, I want to sort of go at this in two different ways. One, I think, obviously, there's the opportunity to talk about like, what's new, what do we need to look out for this year, all those sorts of things. But I also want to think of this for bosses who may be listening, you know, we've been doing sort of this, having you on the show in this way for a couple of years. And I love that it creates an opportunity for everyone to think about what's happening legally in their business every year. So even if you listening aren't doing this on your own, just by listening, you're kind of doing it. So I'd like to know from you from that standpoint, when it comes to do an annual check in in your business around legal things. What can or should that look like?
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, at a bare minimum, the number one thing you'll hear me say this again, like contracts, contracts, contracts. That is, in my opinion, and I'll get my standard disclaimer, since we're jumping into the legal stuff. I am a lawyer. I'm not anyone's lawyer who's listening except Emily. So please, you know, this is not legal advice. This is just information to get your wheels turning. But so in my you know, I'm only one lawyer, but this is my opinion. I think contracts are the fundamental legal protection for every business. When we see problems and it's almost always like, the first question we ask is, let me see the contract. That is always our starting point when we're trying to look at these things. So I highly recommend at least once a year you are reviewing whatever your biggest moneymaker is. So that's going to vary depending on your business. If you're consulting one on one that may be your client contract, if you're selling online courses or info products that may be your terms of use or terms of terms and conditions, we'll pull that out, dusted off. And take a look, because we changed so quickly, especially in the online business world that, you know, we're constantly tweaking or trying to improve things, or we get feedback, or there's a problem. But often, we don't think to update our contracts to reflect the new or different ways that we're doing things. So pull it out, give it a quick read, you know, there may just be some little edits, you don't have to work with a lawyer on this, like, it may just be you need to adjust some things. And you can do that on your own. Or I will say, if you have had significant client, you know, significant issues, I always ask when I'm talking with a new client, like, where's there friction? What what has been causing you, you know, like you said, sleepless nights this year. And if it's the same thing over and over, it may be that you would benefit from talking with a lawyer, you know, some of those things are just business, but some of them can be, you know, made a little better with a little legal support.
Emily Thompson:Yeah, I couldn't tell you how many times I've gone back and look at contracts that I've been using for, you know, a year plus, and I read it, and I'm like, Oh, I forgot it said all of these things, or that thing that kept coming up was something that was actually defined in the contract. So I think like, yes, looking at it through the lens of like, what do I need to change, but also just update yourself on what your own terms and conditions are?
Autumn Witt Boyd:Like, Oh, I said I could charge a late fee. I've been having a lot of late payments.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Maybe I should start doing that.
Emily Thompson:Yes. Exactly.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Could be as simple as that. Yeah.
Emily Thompson:So okay, reading contracts. That's perfect. What about like, is, what about like, website terms and conditions? Is that one that we really should be looking at every year?
Autumn Witt Boyd:I have great news for you. Those are basically set it and forget it.
Emily Thompson:Oh, nice.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah. So unless you again, unless you've made like huge changes to the type of business or you know what you're doing. Your website terms and conditions are just kind of, I call them the rules of the road for people who visit your website. So they're kind of just usually if you use a template like ours, it's, you know, things like you can't copy our photos without our permission, kind of any disclaimers or things like that. But they're pretty, it's pretty boilerplate. So that is not really going to need a lot. I mean, maybe look at him every couple of years, if you change your corporate entity or your address or something, but most of that is not really changing.
Emily Thompson:Perfect. Anything else. Anything else we should be looking at?
Autumn Witt Boyd:The Privacy Policy is one that does need to be updated from time to time.
Emily Thompson:Yep.
Autumn Witt Boyd:So I know we'll hit on that a little bit later in our agenda. But you know, kind of if, especially if you haven't updated your since before 2018, which was when there was a big, big change in the EU and the UK called GDPR. That you definitely need to do a little updating again.
Emily Thompson:That one makes me make a face.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, you don't have to write this from scratch. Lawyers don't write anything from scratch. We are never reinventing the wheel. So we use templates and things too.
Emily Thompson:Awesome. Anything else.
Autumn Witt Boyd:No, those are the big ones that I will say the issue that we have seen the most this year, as far as disputes with our clients, is people asked me for refunds. We've just been like, there's been a deluge of refund requests. And then the client, our clients are trying to decide am I going to give a refund? If I do? Do I want to put some kind of guardrails around that, like, you know, am I going to kick them out of the program? And am I going to require that they don't speak badly about me? So if you are seeing that come up in your business, I would just say you're not alone. We are seeing a lot of that. I think part of it is the economy. I think part of it is you know, we're two to three years past the pandemic surge in online education, and I think people are savvier. I think they're taking a closer look at what they're buying. And frankly, if they don't feel like they're getting what they were sold, they are not afraid or not afraid to ask for a refund. So I would just as you are reviewing your contracts, make sure that you have a refund policy at all, even if you're even if that is no refunds that should be in your contract. And if you've seen again, if that's one of your areas of friction, that may be something you want to look at kind of how you're handling those.
Emily Thompson:Awesome, great tips than everyone that's a small to do list for you, right.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Short, very short.
Emily Thompson:If you haven't done these things for yourself yet, go refresh yourself on a couple of things, make some edits as you can and you will be more legally ready to slide in or slide further into this year.
Autumn Witt Boyd:To soar.
Emily Thompson:To soar.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Into 2023.
Emily Thompson:As needed as needed. Perfect. Then let's get into sort of what's happening these days or what is new what
Autumn Witt Boyd:I have PTSD. Yes. we need to be touching base on. I will never forget you brought up GDPR a few minutes ago. I will never forget that spring.Like there was a.
Emily Thompson:You said that and my face went crazy.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Were you still doing web design then Emily, I'm trying to remember.
Emily Thompson:Um not. No I was shutting down. I think at that point was shut, I was getting rid of my clients at that point I did not do. God bless, that would have been the final straw for sure if I had been still doing them. But I do remember a series of conversations that felt like unfortunate events that went from like, the high of the Being Boss book coming out, and then having lunch with you one day and you being like, so have you heard of GDPR? And I'm like, no, what's that? And you were like, it goes into effect, like in three weeks or something. And I was it blew my mind.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah.
Emily Thompson:Blew my mind.
Autumn Witt Boyd:May 2018 I will never forget.
Emily Thompson:That was so hard time for a lot of people. So that would really blindsided me. And since then, I feel like that was also very much so a wake up call for me at that point of like, okay, this online business thing is not the wild wild west anymore, right there, we have to start buttoning up. We can't just be like, you know, free flow and out there doing making selling whatever we want. Under whatever terms we sort of makeup. Not only is there like structures for doing business, but governments are literally getting involved and want us to like, they want us to button up. So I remember that being a really shift in my mindset around doing business and doing online business and really put legal stuff at the forefront of if you're going to show up and do work in any space. But even in the online space, you better be ready to know what's going on around you. So with that said, especially considering how quickly online business stuff changes. What are you seeing happening this year that we all need to be made aware of?
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, so I've got three things on my list. So let's start with this is not new. But I think we're seeing more like you said, online businesses kind of waking up to this. So we're starting to see more enforcement. And that's Federal Trade Commission regulations, which is like the most boring thing that you can imagine. But this is basically think of truth in advertising.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:So this is not new. There's been laws on the books and regulations for a long time. Basically, you're not allowed to lie to people in your sales and marketing activities.
Emily Thompson:You can't sell snake oil anymore?
Autumn Witt Boyd:You're not supposed to. Plenty people do.
Emily Thompson:Not legally.
Autumn Witt Boyd:They get that letter from the FTC.
Emily Thompson:Yep.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Or they get a complaint from filed with the state attorney general. So we're just starting to see more of that I've had that pop up against a couple of my clients this year. So they are definitely taking notice, I think the online business industry has been a little bit, you know, kind of off on an island. Like you said, nobody's really been paying attention. But there's, it's grown a lot, a lot more, you know, regular people are investing. And so I think it's just starting to be on the radar of law enforcement. So that means all kinds of things. But I would say the biggest things we're seeing are, what kinds of claims are you making in your marketing, and we're seeing that most around like health and wellness, especially weight loss. So if you're, like promising someone, they can lose a certain amount of weight, or if you're using testimonials of people with that have numbers in them. That is just something to be aware of that you should be, again, just be checking into this, seeing what you need to do. And then any kind of like business coaching, or course around helping you make more money. The FTC is very sensitive to get rich quick schemes. And I know none of us think that we are doing that. But when you, I've been like paying attention to some of the decisions that have been coming out there, there was a housewife who is being sentenced, who pled guilty to some crimes involving a get rich quick scheme. You're like, that is crazy. But then you look at it, you're like, Oh, that's not that different than a lot of the things I'm seeing. So just again, be aware that there are rules around this stuff. And I think for a long time, people have been kind of acting like they can do whatever they want. And those chickens are coming home to roost a little bit.
Emily Thompson:Indeed. And they're bringing some friends with them it sounds like.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah.
Emily Thompson:I have a couple of questions around this.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah.
Emily Thompson:Because this is a big one. I've been seeing some of these things as well. And it is just generally time. We all you know, we all fancy ourselves sales copy writers at some point, but if we don't know how it works, like in the real world, because it wouldn't isn't it also kind of fun that online world is now becoming more of the real world where like we're not just operating on the fringes.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I know I used to always say like, in my little corner of the internet. Well, it's like it's gotten to be a bit, a lot bigger corner.
Emily Thompson:Yeah, for sure. But what does this actually look like? You mentioned health and wellness. You mentioned testimonials. Are you talking sales pages? Are you talking email marketing? Are you talking social media like where are you seeing this happen the most?
Autumn Witt Boyd:All of the above.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:The more public facing ones are obviously the ones that are going to get more attention. So social media posts, any paid traffic, paid traffic, paid ads. The emails are usually a little more behind the scenes, but yeah, sales pages, certainly as well. So yeah, you know, think anything public facing is going to be, you need to be especially careful there, although certainly we have had clients that, you know, their sales emails were forwarded to the local authorities as well. So, and people can record phone calls, like we have some clients who are doing, you know, sales over the phone, which can be a very high pressure tactic. You know, I think another thing to keep in mind is, the more high pressure tactics you're using, the more it starts to look like you are being, you could be violating these rules.
Emily Thompson:Sure. Okay. And if someone is like, oh, maybe my testimonials are off, or my sales copy, is sure convincing, or whatever it may be. What would it look like.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Maybe a little too convincing.
Emily Thompson:Right? Maybe I'm just pushing the envelope a little bit. What would a review look like? And what would it look like to to fix some of those things?
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, so I think we've talked about this before I take and again, I'm one lawyer with one viewpoint, but this is how I like to look at things is your when we talk about legal protections, I'm always thinking about risk. So what is the risk that something really terrible could happen? So with this kind of thing, we're thinking, you know, what is the risk that somebody could invest in something you're selling, and lose all their money and get angry and report you to the FTC. The FTC, or a state attorney general could come after you. If your business is very small, you know, under 100,000 revenue, maybe you work with five to 100 people a year, you are very low risk, at any of this, you're probably not selling things for that much. Your volume is not that high. So this is something like of course, I at least really value running an ethical business and complying with rules and regulations as part of that. You every person gets to make their own decision about where they land on that, you know, there are plenty of big corporations that are aware of the laws and hire lawyers to figure out how they can skirt around them. So, you know, think about your values, think about the size of your business, and what is your risk, as you get bigger as your profile rises, you are more at risk. So you know, where I'm seeing this start to come into play more is with my clients who are doing multi million dollars in revenue a year who have a very substantial social media following. So those are two kind of things to keep in mind up. So if you are in that range, or approaching it, or you think like I might be there in another year or two, you know, we've been doing this for some of our clients, it's really just taking a look at the marketing materials, it usually takes couple hours, you know, reviewing them, comparing them to the laws and the regulations and seeing are there some tweaks we'd recommend? Or are we talking about a whole overhaul of your whole, you know, kind of marketing campaigns? It kind of varies depending on you know, I have some clients that have, you know, like six funnels with 100 emails, and it can it can vary depending on what your business marketing looks like.
Emily Thompson:Right? And I would say for anyone who's not there yet, and who's like, this isn't, you know, a problem or also I want to do it right. A lot can be said about starting things well.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yes.
Emily Thompson:Right.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah. It's easier not to have to go back and rewrite all those emails later.
Emily Thompson:Yeah. Yeah, do some honest business from the get go and it becomes significantly easier as you grow.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Well, and the bonus is, you're gonna have less refund requests.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Just everything is going to run more smoothly. I have found.
Emily Thompson:Absolutely.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Less churn, less people, more people are going to send their friends to you. I just think there's so many benefits to running your business that way.
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Emily Thompson:So FTC, breathing down our necks is one. As they should either and as they should, honestly.
Autumn Witt Boyd:There here to protect the customers so.
Emily Thompson:Indeed.
Autumn Witt Boyd:There doing their job.
Emily Thompson:Indeed. So FTC is one, what is another of your three?
Autumn Witt Boyd:So we have seen a lot of action with text message marketing.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:So if you are like me, your phone is probably blowing up with like doctor appointment reminders and all that. It makes me crazy because I'm old. Like I just wish you would not text me because it feels like a to do item and I have to look at it.
Emily Thompson:Yep.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I don't know. I kind of I kind of hate text. I know lots of people love them. And they're very effective in marketing. So we are seeing more and more businesses you use them, especially online businesses. I don't know about you, Emily, we're seeing them for like webinar signups or reminders.
Emily Thompson:Okay.
Autumn Witt Boyd:People are using them, like I mentioned for doctor's appointments. For if you are booking a one on one call with someone sending them a reminder, you know a lot of that and then also just, as you would not as in the past, or even currently, you might run an email campaign, people are running text message campaigns. So they may have like a whole sequence of sales texts that they are sending, because the email inbox is more crowded, and the text inbox is not yet. So there are it turns out many, many rules around how you are allowed to send people texts. And the platforms that are like allowing you to send texts are not telling anyone about that, which I kind of understand because it's not their job to be your lawyer. But I also feel like they're kind of doing a disservice by not even like ringing the alarm bell at all. Because I pulled this we'd written a memo on this, if you the law at issue is called the Telephone Consumer Protection Act, it's not a new law, but it's kind of new that it's been applied to text messages. The TCPA, you if someone sue's you, if you do this wrong, a consumer can sue you, their damages are a minimum of $500 per text. So consider like you have a I have a client that has like a 35 texts sequence $500 per text.$1,500 if they find that your actions were willful, so basically, like if you knew you were doing this the wrong way, and you did it anyway. So the damages are really high, you know, 35 times 500. I'm bad at math, but that's a lot of money. The other thing is these are being filed as class actions. So the plaintiff's lawyers know that if they find Sally who got your texts and didn't sign up for them, there's probably lots of Sally's out there, that you're probably not doing this in an isolated manner. So then we're talking about just really, really huge damages exposure. And there are basically professional plaintiffs, a plaintiff is the person who brings a lawsuit who's suing someone. So there's basically professional plaintiffs who figured out that they can earn money doing this. So they are signing up for things, they are trying to find people who are doing it the wrong way so that they can get the texts and then file a lawsuit. So it is yeah, we have had some clients who have I mean, it feels like entrapment. It feels really gross. But there is no defense under this law. So it's like if you do it the wrong way, it's kind of too bad. So this is one of those areas that I just want to again, kind of ring the alarm bell, because the text message platforms are not doing that. Just so that people know that this is a higher higher risk activity in your business. So I just want people to go in eyes wide open, you may still decide that you want to do text messaging, if it's really effective, but there is a lot of Legal Compliance, I'm not going to go into unless you really want to go into all the rules. But this is definitely an area where I would recommend consulting with a lawyer. Because there's internal procedures and documentation you have to do. It's it is not it's not super hard, but it's just kind of annoying. I would not trust it online checklist.
Emily Thompson:Right. I think we should probably schedule a chat. Because I literally finalized some graphics today for adding text message marketing to Almanac's newsletters stuff.
Autumn Witt Boyd:So I'll give you like 50,000 foot view, which is you have to they have to give their express consent. That's the biggest thing. And then there's like some other things.
Emily Thompson:Yes. Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:But you can't just like have a spot on a form where they can fill out their cell phone number and then just start blasting them, which I have definitely seen people doing.
Emily Thompson:Yeah, for sure. No, as we have been putting things in place we've been researching. I knew that there was some regulations around this. And I know that I want to do things well from the beginning as much as possible. So we've done a good bit of research and things and been very careful about starting it and doing it slowly. It's It's not some some half baked idea was like, you know, two days it goes like everybody, we are changing direction. Right. Now, we've been working on this for about six months, and really like taking your time to do some research, but I do think it probably would be ideal to have a chat about it.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Happy to chat.
Emily Thompson:Because too, you know, even in the Being Boss Community, there's occasionally conversations that come up around text message marketing, and really, really it is incredibly effective. The open rates and the click through rates are really tempting.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I'm definitely not saying don't do it. I just want you to do it the right way. And there's just like a couple things you have to do. Nobody wants to get the letter that one of my clients got that is really scary. Or get the lawsuit delivered to your door.
Emily Thompson:Yeah, no, none of us want that.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Let's stay on the right side of that.
Emily Thompson:Absolutely. Absolutely. So as as everyone is hearing, you know, all the things about text message marketing. Also, if I can, like, you know, finger on the pulse, you know how always like, you know, get off social media five years before everyone gets off social media, or I think this text message marketing thing is going to be relatively short lived.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Oh, hot take.
Emily Thompson:I do. And mostly because it becomes so much so fast on such a direct to your eyeballs thing. And I don't think very many people are going to be really diving into this. And if anyone does, I think they're going to get out of it really quickly. And or the numbers are going to tank so fast that business owners don't see really the advantage of it in like traditional marketing ways. I think there is a difference between marketing and like the doctor's appointment or you know, marketing and your package has been delivered. But I do think for I'm interested to see, but my inkling is that for marketing, it's going to be relatively short lived.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Be curious. It's been used hugely in political campaigns. Yeah. Doesn't that make everybody feel gross? Never give your cell phone number to a political campaign.
Emily Thompson:No. Absolutely not. I even got I got a scam thing yesterday that I had like a fraudulent charge on my bank. And I immediately went to David and was like, David, I got this text message. I looked at it for a second and I was like, but it looks funny. And sure enough, so anyway, all this to say I do think that I'm interested to see but I do not think that text message marketing is going to get caught on in quite the same way. We shall see. Okay, text marketing, if anyone is looking, if anyone's already doing it, check yourself. Yeah. Right. If you're thinking about doing it, learn everything you need to know before implementing it. And if you're like, that's not even for me, I love that for you. Um, what is the last of your three?
Autumn Witt Boyd:My last three there is California. It's just the gift that keeps on giving. Our friends in California last year, it's like full employment for lawyers in California.
Emily Thompson:I bet.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, so they passed a new law. It's called the California auto renewal law. We call it ARL. So this is meant to help the problem that I myself have faced where you sign up for a subscription and either for software or, you know, I signed up for Rent the Runway several years ago. And I could not cancel it. Like I had to call and wait on the phone wait on hold for an hour and a half, it was a huge pain in the you know what? So this law has very strict requirements now. And if you're doing business anywhere, you're probably doing business in California. So it pretty much applies everywhere. But this is for paid subscriptions that renew automatically. So I just want to point out, it's not for payment plans that have like a start date and an end date. And you're kind of like splitting up the payments. Those seem like subscriptions, but they're really not. It is for things like your Hulu subscription, or Netflix, you're paying every month, every month, it just keeps on rolling, you get charged until you tell them to stop. So the big thing there is there some new rules about like the notice you have to give on the front end. So we've been helping some of our clients just make sure their sales pages and checkout pages are compliant. And then there's also some rules about how easy you have to make it to cancel. Like there has to basically be a button or a very easy way you can't force somebody to get on a call with you and you know, go through this 12 email sequence that I have seen, you know, please don't go. Like that's, that's not going to work anymore. And this is another one where there is a consumer right to action. So like if you Emily tried to cancel and you can't, you can file a lawsuit and you can get pretty big damages. So it's just another one of those that it's it's going to start being a problem for more and more businesses. So but again, we shouldn't make it easy for people to end their relationship with us if they don't like it.
Emily Thompson:Indeed, indeed. So I was, I think and I think it's sort of like two pronged, right? Like one of them is don't do skeezy things.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Right?
Emily Thompson:Number one.
Autumn Witt Boyd:That could be the theme of this episode.
Emily Thompson:Indeed, indeed, don't do skeezy things. Number two is like is a tech thing. Because sometimes you're not meaning to be skeezy.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Right?
Emily Thompson:But the button is hard to find. And you don't you haven't you like you bought a template that was not great designed for user experience, or you're using a piece of technology that you're not familiar with, and you don't know how to make that button more visible or whatever it may be. Get your tech right as well so that you aren't inadvertently being skeezy.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, yeah. And I think this is gonna be like GDPR sorry to say it again. But like now, you know, a lot of website builders will have like a GDPR compliant privacy policy built in and all you have to do is like click a button. I think it's going to become like that where templates are going to start becoming compliant with this because it's going to be very widespread.
Emily Thompson:Isn't that funny. Isn't that funny. I remember selling website templates back in the day and there was just does it have an about page, a cart button? The bar was low. Right? But these days like I look forward to the day as someone who buys website templates even to you
Autumn Witt Boyd:We're all doing our best. know, looking at a template and seeing the list of compliances that it needs like it is GDPR compliant, it is this thing compliant, it like is just generally California compliant, because let's, let's face it, if it's California compliant, you're probably compliant everywhere other than like Denmark, I don't even know. So, there I do, I'm glad to see these things happening as someone who came from the Wild West, watching everything be buttoned up a little bit and makes me more confident and doing business with others online. And the same way that I hope my customers are comfortable doing business with me online. Hear, hear.
Emily Thompson:Love it. Okay, so those are three really big ones. And those are like already happening. Yeah?
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, yeah. Those are not TBD.
Emily Thompson:Those are real, real real. Right now. Yeah. Okay. Do you see anything coming down the pipeline?
Autumn Witt Boyd:Well, so we have like data and privacy on our list to talk about that. I'm not going to get political, but I don't think this Congress is going to get anything done. So you know, for years, there's been talk of a basically a US GDPR. Because our rules are so much more lacks than the EU and the UK, but I just don't think it's a priority. So I don't really see that changing, although, I mean, you never know, there might be another Facebook, you know, huge data breach, and maybe that changes. But I think short of you know, some sort of event, some sort of catastrophe that pushes, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
Emily Thompson:And what would this entail? Like is it pretty much the US version of GDPR? Or does it encompass other things?
Autumn Witt Boyd:I mean, who knows what it would look like in practice, there's lots of proposals that are floating around, but I mean, right now, I could buy a list from you and send them emails or call them. You know, you don't have you don't have to keep your customers data private in the United States, all you have to do is basically tell them what you're doing. And nobody reads that. You don't have to give notice when someone gives you their email about what you're, what kind of emails you're gonna send them or kind of what they're signing up for. You can opt people in automatically. I feel like every time I buy something online, I get put on a list, even though I've never checked that box, like that is allowed in the US. So there's a lot of things that just would not fly under GDPR, which has much more, they just, you know, kind of allow people to control their data a lot more than we do here.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:We're basically for sale in the United States.
Emily Thompson:Capitalism. Capitalism, that's super interesting. I, my finger is not on the pulse of most of those things. That's why I've got you. But that is really fascinating. And I think, you know, maybe it doesn't happen quickly. I hope nothing crazy happens. But I do feel like they're all just sort of primed for those sorts of things to happen.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Even with GDPR I feel like there was maybe a two year phase in period, like, there was a lot of notice, because there were so many big changes that had to be made both technologically and just, you know, kind of staffing up people to handle it.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:So, it wouldn't be overnight, but we'll see.
Emily Thompson:It felt like it was overnight last time. Anything else anything else you see coming down the pipeline that we just I just want like illegal gossip is basically what this is.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Legal gossip? Hmm. Trying to think we are seeing it we had cybersecurity on our list as well. I mean, this is not really legal. But we've had a lot of clients with like identity theft scams and our clients are really tech savvy. So some of them have been taken advantage of in scams. Been either with phishing or hacking into their email and redirecting payments. So just be really careful if anyone is like sending you a new bank account number to redirect even with your team members like I would just you know never accept any of that kind of stuff over email. Make sure you have a phone call voice confirm is ideal. We just got to I think we're just going to have to be a lot more careful moving forward because the scammers have gotten so so good.
Emily Thompson:Yeah, I can I can second this. I haven't had any personal experiences knock on wood. But I definitely know of a couple of people who have. And it is always like it's so it seems so innocent when it happens. You know, they get an email it's like oh, sorry, like this invoice. This invoice is overdue like would you care to pay and they're like, Oh, this is like, you know, they've like.
Autumn Witt Boyd:And they can they can mask the email.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:It looks very legit.
Emily Thompson:It does.
Autumn Witt Boyd:The one, my client was, one of my clients was taken advantage. And it was like in a reply to an email thread. So it was like it did not come out of nowhere. It was so, so sneaky. So
Emily Thompson:yeah. Oh, yeah, terrifying.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Be careful where you send your money.
Emily Thompson:Indeed. And I think that even goes back to like having processes, right like I was talking to someone the other day who was talking about their, their sort of accounts person on their team and just how buttoned up they are right with like, they're not sending money to anybody without like the right password. Whatever, which I think is smart these days just sort of flippantly sending money around is not how we do business online anymore. Y'all, we make sure that is buttoned up, you're gonna get scammed real easy.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah. And there's really there's no recourse. Like, when that money's gone, it's gone. I mean, there you have maybe like 24 or 48 hours to try and get it back. But it's gone real quick. Usually, by the time you notice it.
Emily Thompson:For sure. Okay.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I don't want to end on a whomp whomp.
Emily Thompson:But like, but what is it? What is it good legal note look, like?
Autumn Witt Boyd:I would say, on the plus side, we are seeing like, especially after maybe having a couple of these things happen. Getting burned by a contractor who leaves and, you know, takes things they shouldn't or starts going after your clients or any other things like that. We are seeing businesses kind of putting on their big girl panties and growing up a little bit. So I think that's been a theme of our conversation, we're not in the wild, wild west anymore. And if you're acting like it, you're not going to have the kind of sustainable business that I think most of us want.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I think we're out of that, like, earn a million dollars in a year and then go live on a beach.
Emily Thompson:Right?
Autumn Witt Boyd:You can't really do that anymore.
Emily Thompson:high five to the dozen or so of those of you who did that. The rest of us are gonna sit here and do business sustainably, and responsibly. And I think that's And pay your sales tax remittances, like they will come put a chain around your door. If you do not pay those. It is no
Autumn Witt Boyd:In 2023, yup. really sort of the big feeling that I'm getting from this is like, this is a lot. But you know, I also run a brick and mortar store. So I know what it means to be up to the fire codes. And like, I know what joke. Right. So I have logged it in like an area of business where you just follow rules that are there. And it was fun to do business in a realm where there were no rules kind of for a little while. But it does make me feel generally better that rules are being put in place, because not only does it protect our customers, it really protects us as well. But as we are also like, I'm also buying things from people on the internet, and I'm doing business in that way. So knowing that I'm protected, sort of from both sides also feels really great. Yeah, and I don't want to. I made a note, like I don't want the bosses listening to freak out and be like, I can't get started because this is too much. That's why I really do want to hammer home. Like think about the risk proportionately to the size of your business. Like I would not let any of this keep you from starting. But these are just kind of watch outs as you're growing to kind of keep in mind.
Emily Thompson:Yeah. And also one of the things about the past 10-15 years of online business is made entrepreneurship and business ownership feel so incredibly easy, like falsely easy. Right? You know, you can just like, start a website and have a PayPal link, and you're in business. And that was great for 10-15 years, like those of us who did that. Love that for all of us. But that is not the reality of business like of working in the economy in this way, in any other place than online business. And it is not the case now, either. So there is an adjustment to mindset that I think has to happen around what it means to be an entrepreneur, even in the online space. And it does involve getting buttoned up.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, and we haven't really had on team. But I guess that's something I mentioned, too, that I have seen, like with what you were saying. I think there's been an attitude for a long time that like I can just pay everyone as a contractor. I don't need to worry about any of those employment laws don't apply to me. I'm online.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:And that is not true. So we Yeah, we're seeing a lot of people getting hit with unemployment audits and, you know, people not paying their taxes and the IRS coming after you like there's serious and again, I don't want to say don't do it, but this like if you're hiring people, you it's a real responsibility, like you have their livelihoods in your responsibility. So yeah, take that seriously. Make sure you're doing it the right way.
Emily Thompson:Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes to the team stuff that went has been that one's been really big. And we can almost thank the pandemic for that, right. I mean, everybody went online, and we had to make adjustments along the way. And as we have transitioned back out, a lot of people are left in that realm and need those protections as well. So that facilitated into the Wild West in that portion of how we do it as well. Was there, will there be any wild left Autumn?
Autumn Witt Boyd:I don't know, I don't know.
Emily Thompson:Maybe not. And I think I'm okay with that. More or less, more or less we have to move into online business being a legitimate thing, right? I think legal and legitimate have those like root words are the same for reason everybody?
Autumn Witt Boyd:I like that. I don't know, Latin, but I bet that's the thing.
Emily Thompson:Yeah, I made up. I made up that connection. But I would assume.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I mean, even in the normal business world, there's always going to be businesses that flout the rules and try and sneak around things, but they often get caught like it's a house of cards. You can only do that for so long.
Emily Thompson:Yeah. Okay. Well, no one do any of it button up. Do it. Right. Okay, then, last-ish question for you. Are there any things that you can think of that you would recommend that small business owners stay on top of this year, or it may just in general, maybe just like a final, if you could do only one thing today, here's what you should do from Autumn. Lawyer Autumn.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I'm gonna give you a shameless plug.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Which is our emails are really good.
Emily Thompson:They are.
Autumn Witt Boyd:So they're not pitchy, they're helpful, we are keeping an eye on all this stuff. So you know, no guarantee that we're gonna see everything because I don't promise that to even my uncle. But, you know, if there's a big trend or something really big coming down the pipe, like we're going to be talking about it. So I have something special that we put together. The 2022 version is out now. And we're working on the 2023 version. So depending on when you listen to this, you will get the most recent version. And I'll give this link to you to throw in the show notes. But it's Bitly.AWBlegalreport, if you go to that link, you sign up, you will get our emails in addition to the report.
Emily Thompson:No text messages.
Autumn Witt Boyd:No texts, you can unsubscribe at anytime if you don't like them. But yeah, I mean, you in some way, whether it's our emails, whether it's, gosh, I can't imagine like having a monthly task to like, do a Google but I mean, just in some way, you need to be kind of paying attention to people who are talking about these kinds of things, because it is not something that you can really easily do for yourself. So yeah, outsource, outsource it to, to some other people who are staying on top of things.
Emily Thompson:For sure. I will say that you're like, I'm not a social media consumer, but a long time well, the things however, during early pandemic, when you were following all that PPP stuff, and really just like sharing and updating and all the things in the way that you best do was so helpful, and everybody it was free. It was absolutely free. And so you know, hopefully you don't have to go into anything like you had to go into that ever again.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Please.
Emily Thompson:However, the information that you do share on the regular is incredibly helpful. And especially during certain pinpoints have have even helped me make decisions and move forward even as someone who does work with you. But in those cases it was just Autumn online, which was great. So I do recommend everyone go sign up for that.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I mean, it's funny, I had a you know, we do have special client alerts that we send out once a quarter but a lot of our clients just get our regular emails and one called me today and he said I just I saw your email and it made me think of something and so I had to reach out. So you know, my big goal with a law firm is to help people avoid making expensive mistakes. And most of you did not go to law school so you don't know what you don't know. So you've just got to kind of keep paying attention learn as you go. Outsource where appropriate.
Emily Thompson:Absolutely. Perfect. Then Autumn where can people find more about you in general?
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, so we are AWB Firm and all the places that's our Instagram handle our website is AWBfirm.com We're on LinkedIn now so I don't know we're playing around with some new stuff.
Emily Thompson:Perfect well we will include the links of all of those things in our show notes and my last and final question for you for this recording is what's making you feel most boss?
Autumn Witt Boyd:Oh, I have to say so I've started like dressing again after the pandemic.
Emily Thompson:Yes.
Autumn Witt Boyd:It's still definitely leggings on the bottom but I've been buying some new fun outfits and just like feeling a little more put together.
Emily Thompson:Yeah.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Makes me feel boss to be in like a nice, well fitting, stylish outfit.
Emily Thompson:Oh.
Autumn Witt Boyd:So I hope you're enjoying today's look.
Emily Thompson:I do.
Autumn Witt Boyd:It is very colorful.
Emily Thompson:It is goregous. You have jewelry on like Yeah, from you know, the bust.
Autumn Witt Boyd:The bust up.
Emily Thompson:Shoulder up. Beautiful. Who needs to know that you are wearing leggings and probably house shoes under that desk.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Tennis shoes today but I do keep slippers at the office.
Emily Thompson:Same. Same. I will say I have also, I have also been dressing up like now that I'm working here in Northshore as well. And I have to like drive to work most days, which is kind of crazy. I'm also putting on clothes and like, I even find myself going to bed at night thinking about the outfit I want to wear the next day.
Autumn Witt Boyd:I sometimes like play around with different combinations.
Emily Thompson:Yes.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Yeah, haven't done it in a while.
Emily Thompson:I know same. I'm glad that you're enjoying that. I'm glad that that's your answer to this. And then I will also just say ditto, me too.
Autumn Witt Boyd:Love it.
Emily Thompson:All right, boss. Because you're here I know you want to be a better creative business owner, which means I've got something for you. Each week, the team at Being Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications, and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money and productivity. This email is called Brewed. We brew it up for you each week to give you the insight you need to make decisions and move forward in your creative business. Check it out now and sign up for yourself at beingboss.club/brewed. That's beingboss.club/brewed. Now, until next time, do the work. Be boss.