Lead Traffic Formula: Getting the Right Traffic and Making it Convert
Speaker 1:0:00Make the logo bigger people, believe it or not, this day and age, I haven't really been doing a lot of online or digital marketing, and so they really don't know where to start.
Speaker 2:0:09Welcome to make the logo bigger. Don't let your marketing getting caught on poor by the way, your marketing knowledge economy, an agency that's running around telling you that you need to do all these new fancy programmatic things. You don't need to think about anything else until the basics are taken care of. The podcast that takes you behind the scenes of a marketing agency.
Speaker 1:0:27Now lines, that's what your page should be structured like. Let's just say you got three topics that you're going to talk about are three bullet points in there. Those three bullet points, those three sub headings should have some relationship to the actual title of the article.
Speaker 2:0:39Come to guys that get paid to do this stuff on a daily basis. Their website like a depreciating asset. You build it once and that's supposed to give you value and that value and appreciates over time. No, it's, uh, it's an employee that needs to learn is retrained. It needs to change, needs to be loved and needs to evolve. Here's your host though. Rice is the end of the day. It's all linked to content. At some point you got to get somebody's attention and so creating interesting content has got to be like the first step and like Carol, if you don't keep your website relevant, it doesn't even matter what you did in the past anymore like Google will just simply see you as a nonactive non publishing, sort of non changing entity on the web and they want things to be current and now the obligatory legal disclosure, rice is the founder and CEO of Kaleidoscope. A marketing and design agency might. Carol is the head of growth at nutshell, a crm software provider. All opinions expressed by bill are definitely the opinions of Quantico. All opinions expressed by Mike or his own opinions expressed by guests of this podcast could be right or wrong. Who knows? This podcast is for informational purposes and has a reasonable probability of making your marketing better. And now this week's episode.
Speaker 3:1:57All right, welcome to episode 18 this week. A super excited about this. This is a passionate topic of mine, but we're talking about lead, what I call lead traffic formula, um, but really it's getting the right traffic and making it convert. So I got Mike here with me again. Hey, how's it going? Mike?
Speaker 4:2:14Abr. I'm good man. How are you?
Speaker 3:2:16Awesome. Awesome. I'm glad you're on here with me today because, um, you know, uh, as a crm company, a nutshell, you guys are kind of knee deep into doing the sales piece of this and um, so I'm excited to talk about kind of the front end traffic and getting that sales lead into you guys. Um, so your insights are going to be a super, super helpful. So
Speaker 4:2:37anything telling you it's a hot topic at all these days. I'm responsible for both ends of this funnel. So yeah, it's a, it'll be an interesting discussion to be. Sure.
Speaker 3:2:47Yeah, we're getting a lot of, a lot of our clients are actually, it's kind of funny things run in cycles or whatever, but we're having a lot of clients ask us to kind of talk about, uh, the sales enablement part of marketing and the sales getting leads, sales ready and that sort of thing. So, um, we're kind of getting deeper into your guys' side of the funnel. So this should be super interesting. So, uh, before we jump into that, anything new or exciting this week, uh, uh, ahead of the, kind of the meat of the topic,
Speaker 4:3:19you know, this week, you know, we were in a big, uh, like shut off all our facebook traffic, you know, experiment and we're still sort of sifting through all the data of that. And you know, at first it seemed to be going quite well and then there's some question as to whether or not we might have done more damage than we not necessarily intended to do. I mean, it was purposeful, like shutting off the facebook traffic, but um, but that's been exciting this week. I guess maybe an exciting is the wrong word. Nerve wracking, maybe a better way to do it or better ways shut
Speaker 3:3:52off. You've got to shut off a lot of the noise just to figure out like get some clarity on kind of what's working and what's not. It's of interesting you mentioned that. I actually just got away from a prospect meeting doing a lot of business development, like I said, and I'm just kind of came up with an idea that I want to try on facebook. So maybe at the end we talk about rabbit holes. Um, I can kinda tell you this sort of methodology or framework that I want to test on facebook and see if there's any ideas there. So. Oh, I can't wait for that. Let's, uh, let's slide into the topic. Okay. So I'm going to kind of line this up a little bit and then we'll, we'll kind of dive into each of these things. But when I think about. Well actually I guess I start with a little background.
Speaker 3:4:34When I first got into kind of marketing in general, um, it was early in the Internet and so I'm truly, I think even today, what people think of when they think of digital marketing or they think of what works on the web was literally what actually existed back in the late nineties and early 2000, which was mean you pop up a website. The Internet was still so small, um, that that's kind of like in a lot of ways, that's Kinda all you needed to do. Get listed in a couple of directories like Yahoo Directory and stuff like that. And in traffic would come. And then um, then conversion wasn't really a thing. Funny enough. I remember in 2000 when we started an internet bank, um, I, I probably talked about this, I told this story before, but we actually created on our website a demo of how you would, it was, it was literally, it wasn't video or anything.
Speaker 3:5:27It was like a step by step guide on how to fill out the web form. So you could fill out the whole equity application, fill it out. Whether it was like a strange thing, so there was no conversion. Um, so that's all to say that like, even today I think, and even back then as I kind of moved through the marketing, the online digital marketing space and in the world matured there, um, one of the biggest puzzlement that I've, that I had, um, even when I was deep in the, you know, the thick of it is a lot of times I would hear people talk about like, you know, what they would do with their email list and, and all the success they would have with the audiences and how they were getting conversions out of all of their traffic. But the, the one thing that I never understood, um, or um, took me longer to figure out is where does the traffic come from?
Speaker 3:6:24Like how do you get people, how do you create an audience? Nobody ever. And I think that's because that was the secret sauce. And I think even today, a lot of agencies and a lot of people don't talk about like where does that come from? And maybe that's what we kind of hold back. So I want to talk about that today because I think a lot of times that escapes people that, that so much of the magic of what we do in digital marketing and so much of the success actually has everything to do with those people that you can engage that actually understand how to get visitors, how to get that traffic to your site and then how to get them to behave the way you want to.
Speaker 4:7:01Oh, I couldn't agree more. I mean, particularly today when traffic, like the competition for traffic is so heavy in general, right? Like you really gotta know what you're doing. Like you said before in a past internet like, hey, write some keyword articles, get listened to a couple directories, you know, buy some back links. There's all sorts of things you could do to kind of make shift and create your traffic. But today, like none of that stuff flies. And if you can't, it's all, it's all the hard way now. They took all the fun out of digital marketing.
Speaker 3:7:31Yeah, that's for sure. Um, so I call this process the lead traffic formula. And in that formula is really a couple of different things. So, you know, just by that statement, the, the ultimate intent is to create a sales ready lead, right. Um, and then the precursor to that as the traffic. So I'm, so I really break it down into a couple of pieces. So there's, there's acquiring new visitors, um, there's actually creating an audience which is going to create a kind of that reoccurring visit. Uh, it'll also allow you to kind of do more marketing and that kind of stuff we'll talk about and then the actual capture, um, and then the nurturing, uh, and then ultimately a sales ready lead. So in all of those things, when you're trying to produce a lead, all of those are elements of your traffic. Um, and so I don't think people kind of give that enough credit that traffic comes from a whole different, a whole bunch of different places. Um, and a lot of times your traffic is actually in order to convert into a lead is having to experience you from a lot of different places and a lot of different channels. And then ultimately having multiple impressions will lead to kind of, to that capture part. So, so I want to kind of break those down a little bit as we kind of go through that. Does that feel like a formula that, that, um, you're, you're comfortable with Mike.
Speaker 4:8:50Oh, it's so fundamentally, I mean just the fundamental formula you know, at, at, you know, for us every day or for the type of traffic that we get everyday. We've actually tried to like, shorten that cycle a little bit into the capture nurture part is like, I'm not, the only part about that I would say is that the capture nurture part, well, hugely critical is going to be one of the most, I guess like the largest variable depending on what marketplace, uh, know whoever's listening to us is operating in that part of this, you know, this formula is to me one of the most critical ones and if either if done improperly can ruin the top or the bottom part.
Speaker 3:9:27Yup. Yup. No, I would agree. I mean, there's a lot of dependencies on sales cycles, the size of the purchase, who's involved in the decision making? I mean, yeah, it starts to get really complex. Um, at that point I think in the front end gets complex too, but it's a different type of complexity and, and a lot of times, and we talked about this a little bit last week, a lot of times this gets siloed and that part ends up in sales and this part ends up in the front end, ends up in marketing and marketing doesn't appreciate kind of those last, that last mile and the complexity that that's kind of sitting in there. So, um, let's dive into audience development. So again, this is the part that baffled me for the longest time and once I kind of cracked this nut and really understood kind of this ecosystem, I'm like, everything changed as far as the performance that we could deliver for people. So, so when we're talking about audience development, we're just trying to, you know, get awareness around the brand, get awareness around the product, get a raise awareness around the people involved. I'm a bigger and bigger believer of this that like, it's important even if you're a big company to have a few personalities that people can, can, can create an affinity with. Um, so, so an audience development, let's talk about like where are all the places that you can, you can grab people's attention or build an audience or places that you turn to first.
Speaker 4:10:50Yeah. So we, we probably only when it comes to our audience development, you know, actually it's funny, we try to keep it as simple as possible. Um, you know, so our two primary acquisition channels, well I'll call them three primary paid acquisition channels. Like everyone should always separate there. They all work together by the way. This is important to note, but um, we sat, forgot the vibe he paid and organic acquisition channels. So our paid channels are, you know, all, all manner of ad words, right? That's, that's search branded search and then remarketing. We do some social, although I just said earlier, obviously that we shut off facebook. We still leverage facebook for like um, you know, for simple email acquisition. So it's, it's a traffic channel. I'm for sure, although I find, you know, not to go too far off topic, but I'm curious what you think about this. I find more and more of that whatever you're doing and facebook like almost remains in facebook, so like it's easier, it's easier to go into facebook and an extract like a marketing qualified lead or even a sales qualified lead than it is to go into facebook and just extract traffic. Um, we can probably talk more about that later and then we put a lot of.
Speaker 3:11:52I think facebook has that too. That's why they created their own kind of lead capture mechanism in there.
Speaker 4:11:57Yes. Yeah, because once you're in, once you're in facebook, facebook, like that's where I am, right for a minute. Like I'm not going anywhere. So I called appointed as the returned to aol, like they never went to
Speaker 3:12:10the Internet. Right. And so we're going back there
Speaker 4:12:14not until my hours ran out, go or your parents got yelled at you for the phone. And then we spent a lot of emphasis on organic traffic and obviously when we're talking about organic traffic, we'd been googled, which is creating content and optimizing our website to rank for keywords and playing that daily, daily game. It's the hardest game, hardest game in town, but if you're not playing it then you're definitely losing.
Speaker 3:12:41Yep. For sure.
Speaker 4:12:44Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
Speaker 3:12:45Sorry. I was just going to kind of reiterate that, yeah, that, that search component of those kinds of people looking for a particular product or to start researching a product or service that they're looking for and um, and kind of creating that, that churn to I think one of the things people forget about again because I think they're assuming, you know, it's a one click and then hopefully a sale. But I'm just kind of wrapping in all the remarketing in re-engagement features that are on those platforms. So you can't forget those and you can't not be buying. Um, and that also includes, of course, your brand. Like you've got to be buying your brand.
Speaker 4:13:22Absolutely. Every day. Yeah. There was one, I did watch this one video one time about a company that shut off their branded PPC, right? So like, you know, when we work together and to this day I would never recommend that anybody ever shut off their branded DPC, in other words, paying for your own branded keywords. But this particular company did and they found out that their organic search actually picked up the exact amount that they lost in paid search and they saved millions upon millions of dollars. I thought this was fascinating and I was like, wow, that's really neat. Um, and you know, uh, my boss a nutshell is we should try that. And I was like, we can. I was like, but I would be willing to bet. The reason why that company is able to do that is because of the strength of their brand is like, Coca Cola started. I was going to say, was it coke? It was new, it was not, it was a, I can't remember what could have been. Was it twitter? Anyway, it was like a marquee brand, Kleenex, Kleenex level brand, right? Like their name had become a verb or a proper noun.
Speaker 3:14:21The first 10 was that they save millions of dollars anyway. Like I'd be like right now, I'd probably be hard pressed to spend 50 bucks a month and go. That actually clicked
Speaker 4:14:35equal. That's the thing. So, but if you're in a competitive marketplace by the way and like your brand are, for example, I mean there's 40 different crms like yeah, you cannot escape your paid search effort without paying for your own, your own brand names and either you will or somebody else will. That's.
Speaker 3:14:52So it also, yeah, the marketplace that you play in is important because in some marketplaces people are playing against your brand or because they're, they're looking to be the alternative. When somebody is either frustrated or wants to try, you know, a competitor or something like that, then that becomes more important because people are actually playing against your brand. Whereas an agency world, like nobody's louise playing against Kalydeco specifically. And so it's pretty cheap for me.
Speaker 4:15:18Um, and then the last thing is referral traffic, which is really important to us and I think it's really important to everybody. There's always an opportunity. Um, so for us it's, it's sites like Capterra or g two crowd or their lead aggregators, right? Um, and in almost any space, no more so than the financial services marketplace by the way, but it almost any space there is going to be lead aggregators, lead reviewers and those types of referrals that you're, this is outside of social referral by the way like that you're going to want to participate in whether it's a listing that you want to get apart of, become a part of or you want to be reviewed by a certain publication, like paying attention to who owns who were the larger publications are that own the search for whatever keyword you're trying to rank for. It becomes a super important part of your referral traffic.
Speaker 3:16:03It's funny you mentioned that we were actually aggressively doing that right now. So we did the same thing. We're doing a lot of Seo work for Kalydeco that we've collected over the years. And, and that's one thing we found, you know, a lot of people are, a lot of people are, a lot of those positions are occupied by people that are aggregators of, you know, the top, you know, web design agencies, right? And it's, you know, it's a pay to play game and that's okay because, you know, the economics seem to work, but those guys have done a lot of. And I think this is where you always have to kind of think of just to what you were saying is, you know, they've done a lot of work in order to secure those organic positions and now they want to get paid for it. And that's okay.
Speaker 3:16:43Like, we, we've got to be there, right? Because though, because people, um, the behavior of consumers is they take that as authoritative. Any list of the top they take as authoritative cafeteria as the same way we're working with some, some agency aggregators. Um, you know, if they say you're the top agency, consumers assume that. And even if they might know the game, I think for decision makers who are making that selection, being able to say, well, I've got a list here, and it says where they're one of the top. So, so that, that is an employee that makes my risk less, you know, the age old saying was nobody got in trouble for buying big blue, you know, ibm, and I think it still applies these kinds of lists. So, so that, I think that's a, we're talking about traffic. If you're, you're a marketing director or cmo or something like that and you're wondering where all this traffic comes from. Hopefully we're introducing you to some, some pieces that you should be playing in that you're not thinking about. So those directories, a referrals, another one that we're working on really heavily. We're big believers in content. So now we're looking for content partners. There are places that we can actually publish a that gives us, you know, more authority, more kind of positioning as a thought leader. Uh, so we're actively doing that. Um, so that's super, super important.
Speaker 4:18:01What's the republication of choice in that regard? Were you trying to make the, make the most? Hey.
Speaker 3:18:05Oh, well there's a bunch. Actually we're starting to get in there. So some of the. So a couple of places you can look for this and there's a couple of lists that I can provide. I think about it in the show notes, but um, are you guys can reach out to me, but um, so it takes some work like, you know, so that's Kinda the precursor. It takes some work. These, even though they're allowing you to publish on these platforms, they expect some quality. Um, and so, so a couple of things. One, start with the list. Um, we were talking about these referral sources kept here. I don't know if cafeteria does it, but a lot of these agency listing sites that we're getting on a, they give us the opportunity because of course they're organic seo plays themselves, so they're allowing us opportunities with our kind of paid membership to do guest posting. So that's easiest entry because we're getting to pay for that.
Speaker 4:18:56Oh Wow. Yeah. Kept Tara does not do that. By the way. I would love for them to let us post on there about the value of crm and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:19:03Be Super Smart. So we're looking, so when we're looking for opportunities, we're looking for kind of a twofer, like I get to pay for the listing, hopefully I'll get some traffic from it. It'll reinforce me is like one of the top five or, or three or whatever. Um, and then being able to actually post content. So there's some, some opportunities like that. Then there's some harder opportunities. There's places like Mas and Huffington Post, Forbes Inc, business insider, um, but those are, those are quality to play sort of things and they can be tough. So we're starting to kind of build, you know, build the credibility to kind of get in there. Um, so it's a little bit of a journey, but once you get in there, uh, it's powerful and it's not, it's, you know, again, it's a little bit of a slog. It's a little bit of a pr kind of move. Um, but the, but the impact I think is larger. I mean, one of the benefits of kind of all these online publications melting down, um, was that they need content but they're still being choosy. So, uh, anyway, so those are some of the ones that we're looking at. We've got a long list that we're trying to penetrate, so
Speaker 4:20:07I've got a good one for you. I don't want to go too far off the rails, but we ran a, um, actually I discovered this sort of by accident. Um, we published an article called a 16 cold b2b email templates, went around the country and found a bunch of like superstar bdb sales guys and then talk to them about, you know, what was their best cold email template for outreach assembled. Then I'll get an ebook or whatever our writer who kind of put that together for us. One of our regular writers posted on growthhackers.com, which I'm sure you're familiar with. And inside of three days we had 600 visits from growth hacker alone. The extra traffic is now ranked in the top five for that particular search, which was my original objective to begin with. And so I would highly recommend for anybody whose audiences like sales, marketing or whatever else, like definitely create a profile and start posting your stuff on growth hacker. And the way that people usually do it is like you'll find that the original post is either on somebody's blog or on medium. A lot of the times it's on medium. And then they do that old like linkedin trick where you create the excerpt on growth hacker. You Click on read more and then it takes you to the original published.
Speaker 3:21:17Okay, cool. I'm gonna have to try that. Actually know the people at growth hacker. So a couple of those guys
Speaker 4:21:22I knew, I'd see. I knew that. Okay, cool. Cool.
Speaker 3:21:25I'm going to, I'm going to do that like this week. Um, it's kind of interesting. Medium is again this, we could walk into rabbit holes here, but hopefully you guys are enjoying this part of it. It's probably more insightful than the rest of our stick. Um, but it's definitely a cool place to hang out and you're seeing a lot of the content that you're seeing in other channels. Linkedin, like growth hacker. Um, Reddit, I'm actually having a success again, which I have in the past, but just get lazy, you know, medium articles into Reddit, you're seeing a lot of stuff in there and I instantly get traffic. I'm more than I expect, so. Okay. So let's go through the rest of the audience development, see if there's anything else in here. I'm just kinda getting the list. Um, search, organic PPC content, social media referral traffic.
Speaker 3:22:13We talked about that. List acquisition, this is not a horrible one. Uh, it's becoming easier and cheaper I think. I don't know if that's a good thing, but in order to get very specific targeted data on a, especially if you're doing account based marketing, which is something that we're doing more and more of because obviously we have to do it, um, but some of our clients are asking us to do this as well. Um, so list acquisition is a good way to do that. And then the cold outreach, like don't undermine the effectiveness of this is to get some sort of methodology to do some cold outreach in a targeted way. I always advocate instead of just blasting across, it's like pick a particular, uh, again, either account based or industry based or whatever and then have a nice targeted cold outreach and then the last one, and this is what I'm appreciating more and more, especially if you've been, you know, in a, you know, this space very long and this is probably more of a sales tip than it is a marketing tip, but like you've acquired so many relationships, half of which you probably haven't kept up on very well.
Speaker 3:23:17So like go dump out your linkedin database and start like talking to those people and like, Hey, I haven't talked to you in awhile. I, I, my last two weeks, um, for business development and it was just marketing because I'm just sending out emails, right. Is, has been booked solid just from reach outs to people that like I haven't talked to out here. Universe. No kidding. Um, so anyway, that's pretty cool and it brings to this, they all come and check me, you know, they, they're checking out the websites and all that kind of stuff. So That's interesting. Okay.
Speaker 4:23:51When it comes to list acquisition, just to save this for later, we should do, we should do a whole episode on how to, how to do it, but how to more importantly warm it up. I think so many people acquire a list and then just like email at once and expect that to yield, to yield a result, like you really have to build a considered multichannel campaign around, like you're going to buy a list of emails or whatever, phone numbers, people, it doesn't matter. Um, then you have to have like a more considered longterm approach to working, warming, identifying, and then know, obviously closing a number of the people on that.
Speaker 3:24:27We should, we should do that. That's a piece of content. Like I'd love to write that. So we've had some success with that. So if you guys want some guest posting, was that obvious? No.
Speaker 4:24:38Yeah, I'm always ready to exchange backwards.
Speaker 3:24:42Cool. Cool. Um, so you, that's how it works. Like partnerships, again, not to wander off, but like some of the top Seo guys that I know. Um, it was amazing early when I got into this business when I started hanging out with these guys, how many of these guys like they're backlink, um, strategy, everybody thinks is blowing out all these emails. It is personal relationships that these guys have. So many of the backlinks occurred, you know, on a phone call or at a conference or a meeting or hey, let me do this real quick for, you know. So anyway, the person of digital marketing and sometimes we get like all data and digital, it's like it's personal press. The flesh can have coffee,
Speaker 4:25:26totally very personal, very personal game and I think you're right there, like you feel obscured from it because you're at a computer and you know, you're supposed to throw things out into the digital universe and magic things come back to, you know, I, yeah, it's, it's no different than you had taken out somebody to launch that, that could make all the difference. I fundamentally agree. I forgot about that all the time with her. It's a really good. Sure, sure.
Speaker 3:25:48For sure. Um, okay, let's see. Um, so, um, so that's audience development, uh, capturing and nurturing. Um, let's talk about that a little bit. Um, so I think this has broadened, you know, back in the day we would capture and nurture thing that just meant email like nothing more than that, right? Um, but now it's kind of broadened beyond, we haven't been as successful with this, but we're still really good at email capture, but capturing people through facebook messenger, through groups, slack groups are really popular, um, phone numbers and SMS and so capturing like access to people in these, these alternative channels that go beyond kind of the email, but allows you to ultimately reach out and reinforce that message and have access to, to other, you know, pieces of their attention, if you will. Um, so any, any thoughts on that beyond email? Email's obvious.
Speaker 4:26:50I mean the group part is really the most important note there. Particularly I'm talking about facebook. If you can cultivate and create or create and cultivate like a reasonable, like facebook group audience, what you're essentially doing is skirting the challenge of like facebook's algorithm, right? Because if someone joins the group, eventually they're going to see your content like 100 times more often than they would if they just liked your facebook page. Um, so if you can entice your audience to come and participate and make a group fun to be in, you're circumventing the basically what, how facebook is set up to make you buy ads by enticing people to be a part of your group and then getting your content syndicated out. So not only like, is that your facebook group ever like an awesome opportunity to nurture your customers or nurture prospects or, or whatever it is, create a community around your brand. It also has an effect on that audience development part I think, which is allowing you to be in your content out further and get people to share it and engage it more often because they're actually encountering it more. I mean all of the social platforms these days are, except for the secretary, twitter I suppose, you know, are restricting what people see based on any number of different things because they're trying to drive, you know, drive. They're either users to buy ads. And so the group is the easiest way around that particular conundrum.
Speaker 3:28:03Yeah. And I've seen a lot of this and been involved in a couple of them. But yeah, these, these closed facebook groups, this kind of exclusivity sort of an ocean. And then the other thing that I've seen, um, is things like slack, you know, um, so
Speaker 4:28:22are you a member of any slack groups? Currently? I joined one not too long ago and I, I will admit like I participated for a little while, but then I got it. Okay.
Speaker 3:28:28And it's, it's um, it's interesting because I am kind of curious, you know, how they go along because I was the same way and it may be just my own distraction that kind of did that, but there seems to be some, some active people in there. It seems to drive some traffic. But yeah, I don't, I don't know for sure if that's kind of affective. I know that the groups get big, but whether or not they're attentive and that kind of stuff, they seem like, um, like a lot of places it, facebook groups are the same way. I mean, the thing about facebook groups though is you're in something that they're using all the time, whereas slack, you're kind of off to the side. So I don't know if those persist to your point. I think facebook is a no brainer because you, you stay in the feed whether you're paying attention to the actual group or not. So that's access to your attention. Uh, the
Speaker 4:29:14do you encounter at your facebook group you can kind of encounter at your leisure, right? So like if I don't go look at my facebook newsfeed for five, six hours or whatever, and I checked back in that the message or the posting or the content from my group will be something that I encountered when I feel like it. Whereas like in slack, um, when you, when the group gets large and unwieldy, like you have to either engage it in real time or not engaged at all and it becomes challenging. And overwhelming was my thing that the slack group I joined, which I really liked at first because it was small, was all about the, um, the new journalism platform called civil. Um, and it was really fascinating, but then it was there 100 people in there, like I got in there way early and by the time I left there was like 10,000 and it was just impossible to talk to anybody because like, it's, yeah, it's like 10,000 people being in a single room trying to talk to him
Speaker 3:30:05or other. That's where it's interesting some people are doing some stuff on messenger which feels more like email. So they interrupt me every now and then with a message and usually offer some content. So That's interesting. Um, some of these platforms are moving off to telegram a, which is kind of interesting. Although I feel like that will
Speaker 3:30:24actually, I think that group you're talking about moving over to a telegram and I kind of moved with them but it's, I mean it's an instant messaging kind of platform still. But uh, there's some security, there's some privacy there. But unlike slack, again, if it gets too big it doesn't have the channel concept. So now you're just like one big, you know, big, you know, bowl of messiness because it all comes into one channel. The other place that's interesting, reddit is given this a try, um, where they've got that, they've got this new concept of, I can't remember what they're calling it a, I'm in a couple, but there's groups and then there's also a, they're calling them all different things, spaces, groups, stock twits is doing this where they kind of have these closed rooms that you can get into enjoying. So I think that's something where the people are trying to figure that out.
Speaker 3:31:11Again, it all goes to this capturing and nurturing, right? People want to capture you and then they want to have some way to constantly kind of stay top of mine in, in hopefully. And I think that's why all these things are being developed hopefully in a place. Um, it's not already too noisy like your email inbox. Right? So I think people are trying to figure out how to. Because I know a lot of email, I mean the email providers, especially people like, you know, g male are getting so good at filtering out, uh, you know, the promotional. It's tough.
Speaker 4:31:44We had a whole conversation, we had a whole conversation yesterday and then I read this infusion soft article all about it, which was like, you know, events through Infusionsoft, but it was dead wrong. But we had a whole conversations because we realized that a handful of our like initial set your password nutshell emails are showing up in that promotions folder. Um, and it was, well, how do we resolve that problem? They answer that question is you really can't. Um, sometimes they're gonna they're gonna end up in there and not a. yeah, I agree that email is getting harder and harder and harder to, you know, unless it's a super engaging email, like the hustle or. I mean if you, if you create an email publication that like, your, your audience craves a, then you can do that. But that's like, that's the same formula as like, oh, I'm going to go create a viral video and blow up my business. It's a very challenging thing, probably get
Speaker 3:32:34smarter about this or whatever, but at some point they got to figure that out because they're, they're categorizing the whole domain, whereas like, especially something like you guys, like, I mean, it's critical that people be able to secure and uh, their initial account set up, you know, the passwords or get forgotten passwords and then that's separate from your marketing engagement, which obviously probably his promotional, but some of those fundamental things, especially since everything is web based, like those are, those are critical emails that need to get into the inbox. Right? So it should be.
Speaker 4:33:06Absolutely. There's one other capture nurture thing that I will say that like, as is often unused and it's like making a bizarre comeback, which is the male. Yeah. I always just pitching campaign
Speaker 3:33:20that uh, we had some success with and then trying to pitch it to another person, but we, um, we were with a client and we dropped a direct mail. Um, and the reason we built this campaign, I'll tell you what, the way we will. So we built it this way, we, we dropped the mail and then three days later we followed up with a three email campaign, uh, that was like creative and it was intended to reinforce, um, the mail drop. And so the whole strategy behind it, which worked pretty good and we produced a lot of leads out of it was okay, mail gets through the noise because that's somewhat unusual now. So people are going to see the male, the male causes a lot of friction, especially if you're trying to get an online lead generated as, you know, they got to go to the website or they got to do something or even if they got to call you, you know, it's a piece of paper and then there's another step.
Speaker 3:34:09Um, and so, so our theory was, and this seemed to work pretty well, is let the mail break through the noise and then when the email shows up in the inbox, they'll already be conditioned to like, oh, that's the thing I needed to do. I needed to call it, do that. And then they're now they're digitally like connected with what produces the lead. So they can click to call the phone number or they can actually real quick fill out the lead form in our case, um, and that seemed really effective. And then you drip on them three times, right? Because like the first time I was like, oh, I need to do that. But then you save the email and then you hit those three times. So. So using that direct mail with your digital marketing can be super powerful. So we're pitching that again to a different client. So I agree with you. Direct mail, don't forget about it. Um, it's expensive.
Speaker 4:34:55I want to run a test Saturday.
Speaker 3:34:58Although somebody sent me a great big whiteboard thing, it was like they spent a fortune and they branded it with our brand and everything. I was like, oh, like, I wish you hadn't done that.
Speaker 4:35:08Yeah. That seems. That seems expensive. Remember when that gas giant boxing glove, it's still around the point being folks don't get too goofy. Send somebody,
Speaker 3:35:19don't want to contact him because it's like, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:35:24Or like the time that we sent people in actual telephone that they can plug into their computer. And that was cheap and gimmicky, that one call. Try some of that stuff. Okay. Sales ready lead. I'm not going to get into this all time. You probably
Speaker 3:35:37want, uh, because
Speaker 4:35:38actually I do have a tight schedule today, so we're going to try to keep this at 30. We're already blew through that. Um, anyway, sales ready leads. I think there's a, this gets to nurturing and that kind of stuff when you're talking about actually traffic to lead, like don't forget to, don't just dump this in your salespeople's lapse. There's probably some, some stuff that needs to be done and stuff that you should help your salesforce with, with whether those are drip emails or those are emails that help kind of move them through that process to actually have in that first sales call. So. And then of course the crm, you got gotta have a crm. Um, so that goes without saying anything to add to sales readiness. That's like a whole deal, you know, episode. It's a whole thing that we can talk about. The most important thing I'll mention is actually something that you know, that you to taught me.
Speaker 4:36:24A lot of people think that creating a sales ready lead, like requires like a of lead scoring says, excuse my dogs, um, and it really doesn't it. You can do it based on very simple behaviors and someone opens an email that's a, you know, that's, that's a point. Um, you know, someone responds to an email. So on and so forth. My point being is to simply, if you are a marketing person, just pay attention to the very simple behaviors that leads can create and then make sure you're sending people to a form at the appropriate time and you will find yourself creating better sales qualified leads for your individuals. The, a marketer wants to send as many as possible and so they want to make it as easy as possible to send that lead into a crm. Create just the slightest bit of friction so that you can at least gave some intent. If someone has to take just a little bit of a step, you might not be able to report great lead numbers, but I'm telling you that if you just create a little bit of friction and it'll indicate intent and your leads will just improve them the slightest bit and quality and your sales team will love.
Speaker 3:37:25Yeah, totally in big believer in that. Um, okay. So, so that's all we got for the lead traffic formula. There's all kinds of little different elements in there. I'm curious obviously always give us some comments and feedback and we can dig into. We'll probably end up digging into all those different pieces because we can talk about how you do that and how you get the traffic flowing and how you produce a really good lead out of that traffic. But
Speaker 4:37:53yeah, let us know where your biggest problem is and then we'll start with that one. Is it traffic, is it acquisition? And then we can definitely.
Speaker 3:38:00It's always traffic. Anyway, so challenges, um, and we'll wrap with this, but um, I'll of um, let's see, did I want to do challenges? Now I want to talk about this idea of you can talk about challenges if you want to, but um, okay, so, um, so I won't tell you who the clients are, but um, so we were asked to kind of come up with some innovative things to figure out, um, you know, kind of how people think about a product or service and then use that information in order to guide, uh, a campaign, uh, probably to influence that perception maybe in a different way, maybe reinforce what it already is, but ultimately kind of reinforce where we want to go with the sale and then subsequently, um, figure out whether or not we were effective with that campaign. So often when we're testing, you know, um, a ad campaigns we're saying, okay, let's run to and see which one they liked the best, but we don't do the, the, the pre research, right?
Speaker 3:39:08We're just kind of go with our gut. So anyway, here's what I want to do with facebook. Um, and as soon as I can find a client, they'll let me do it and we may just do it with Kalydeco. So I've had some pretty effective on twitter, at least doing some polling about some things that I'm interested in and so it seems like people like to engage in a poll through these social media channels. So what I want to do on facebook is I want to run a poll, a that says, Hey, what do you think about this particular thing? Or like in our case we might do a poll, I have to figure out how to write the copy, but let me just do what I in, in, in honor of keeping our client kinda hidden in talking about what we might test with client with Kalydeco is say, okay, what are the, um, you know, four or five things, um, that are preventing you from rear redesigning your website or the three or four things that is most important to, you know, to go forward with redesigning your site. So we're just trying to figure out around. I like the agenda objections, like what's
Speaker 4:40:09I a like addressing the objection first because it's always something that stops you.
Speaker 3:40:14So we figure out those, we take the poll, okay. And then we take the information from the pole because now we know like what the top objection is, and then we're going to run a campaign, um, to essentially answer the objection, right, and sort of take away that fear or, or answer like why that shouldn't be a concern, why that shouldn't be friction. So we're going to run that on facebook, we're going to run those campaigns and we may do some ab testing to figure out kind of which one works. That's the most important rate, uh, which one has the most resonant. And we're going to do this with custom audiences, right? So we're going to do it your audience, so we get an audience that we're pulling. So that's the sample that we're polling specifically. Then we're going to run the, the influence campaign against the same audience. And then we're going to follow up, uh, with a follow on pole and see if we change their attitude towards this.
Speaker 4:41:07Oh, I like that. Which is, that's kind of an awesome social experiment. You know, the only thing I would add to it, I love this idea, by the way. One thing I would add to it, it's in the middle of it, like that Middle Communication, um, I'd be curious to know like if the, you know, they run the objective like collecting those leads and facebook for like a consultation, I would imagine it collide. It goes like situation which is, you know, coming into a 30 minute talk about now that you can get past this or if you want to or how it behaves if you pushed them elsewhere. Like the traffic elsewhere, like do a land to figure out that middle part
Speaker 3:41:38[inaudible] in the middle part to like this is kind of interesting thing. Like I'm not, I'm not trying to produce a lead at this point. I'm trying to see if I can change their perception or get rid of that objection so I can move on forward. Oh, like once I've tested that with a pole, then I know like the approach and then I go run a broad based marketing campaign based on that knowledge. Right. So, so this is literally a, you know, a market test and then of course I can use this. So what we discussed with the client to that we can actually use that polling data as a, as a kind of a cool piece of content, right. That might get picked up on a PR basis. So, um, so that's another thing is kind of we have some original research to say, oh, like, you know, eight out of 10 CEOS won't redesign their website because like, you know, they have to go through a committee too. Time consuming.
Speaker 4:42:27Yeah, exactly. I love it. I think it's super clever. It's a very, it's a very interesting self licking ice cream cone because by the way, during this entire time, you know, now this exercise will be branded regardless whether it was for client or for Kalydeco.
Speaker 3:42:42Like on the polling site. I mean, yeah, we'll probably run it through our channels. So yeah, if you're paying attention maybe, but I don't think the client or the consumer will probably connect the dots. So not that we're trying to hide anything, but I would suspect because people are so fragmented and their attention, they probably won't understand what's happening. They won't understand the game.
Speaker 4:43:02Sure, exactly. Yeah. No, that makes sense. And you know, I'd just be curious to like if you ran that at a large enough scale, what effect that would have on like your organic branded search,
Speaker 3:43:15all that kind of stuff. Like just the general awareness effect from it
Speaker 4:43:18for being an interesting, an interesting digital citizen.
Speaker 3:43:22Yeah. It'll have effects in other channels. I've always believed that. So do you know how I came up with the idea? No. How'd you come to capital? I'm thinking like if I was, if I was the guy running the Russian influence campaigns, this is the way I would've done it. So we'll see if it works. All right, so the client, we're going to use it for good.
Speaker 4:43:47I don't know, hopefully the Russians aren't listening to that. That's too clever. Have an idea
Speaker 3:43:51anyway. Okay. What's, what's yours? And we'll wrap up with you.
Speaker 4:43:56Um, so my, my biggest like rabbit hole of the week, again, it's actually, you know, per our topic is just figuring out what our lead traffic formula is, which one of these channels is sending the right kind of lead at the, at the right time. And it's, it can my only piece of advice like this week, because we got gotta wrap things up,
Speaker 4:44:16it's really easy if you have a lot of data to get lost in the data and it's also really easy if you don't have a lot of data to not want to do anything because you can't make a decision. Just the reminder for everyone, and I'm trying to remind myself of this is the like digital marketing is, yeah, it's a data science to be sure, but it's also, it doesn't live in a vacuum. So like there, there are things that can't be tracked, their circumstances, variables that can't be controlled. And when you start to really think about it at some point you just have to kind of like trust your gut. And so I'm, I'm trying to build up the courage to go into work and tell everybody what my gut. So I don't know if I'm ready to do that until next week we saw a client, we want
Speaker 3:44:56disclose who it was, but they literally. Um, and I think this is where you could use this an example, right? You had direct experience with this, but that client got so constrained by data and what they thought was the metric, um, that, that um, returned and the value they were looking for and kind of turn it down to a dollar and they literally strangled themselves with that. And so we had, you know, we, we hurt ourself because he's like, oh, we've got to get this, uh, this particular return on this investment. And then they kept cranking it down and come down and pretty much essentially starved off all their traffic. Um, and then, you know, um, because they didn't understand the collateral impact that was having because those other channels were producing because of something they were spending their, that they couldn't track dollar for dollar and uh, yeah, they, they caused themselves some, some real pain because they weren't willing to, uh, to kind of use their gut a little bit or just say, Hey, I think this is helping us in other ways beyond what we can actually track.
Speaker 4:45:59Yeah. I may be doing this very thing to my own lead generation ecosystem right now because I'm trying to be too clever by half and we'll talk more about that.
Speaker 3:46:06That. All right. Awesome. This was a fun one and we're going to do more and
Speaker 5:46:11sorry, we're constrained by time. That could be a good thing for you or we're out of here. See an example piece, CPR.
Speaker 2:46:32Thanks for listening to collide because make the logo bigger podcast. Leave your comments and reviews wherever you download your podcast. Find us on the web at [inaudible] dot com. K A l e I d I c o.com.