Justin Wade on Leading Through Change

Justin Wade is the new chair of ACT-IAC Voyagers’ 2027 Professional Development Program and CTO of the Interior Business Center at the U.S. Department of the Interior. We talk about why this is a critical moment to develop agile leaders amid rapid technology shifts and increased pressure for efficiency. Wade shares his lifelong path in IT, from learning programming in first grade, studying computer science at CU Denver, early leadership as a Unix system administrator, entrepreneurial work with venture capital-backed startups, and then federal roles including Associate CIO for the Office of the Secretary, highlighting lessons in resilience, balancing technical depth with business strategy, and leading through uncertainty.

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Intro/Outro Music: See a Brighter Day/Gloria Tells
Courtesy of Epidemic Sound

(Episodes 1-159: Intro/Outro Music: Focal Point/Young Community
Courtesy of Epidemic Sound)

Transcript

JUSTIN WADE

Yohanna: [00:00:00] Hey there and welcome back. It's an honor to talk to such smart, caring, and musical guests. Justin Wade is the new chair of the act, IAC Voyager's 2027 Professional Development Program, and he's also the Chief Technology Officer at the Interior Business Center within the US Department of the Interior.

Yohanna: Justin explains why this is a critical moment to develop agile leaders. 

Speaker 2: Amid unprecedented pressure, rapid technology shifts, and a growing emphasis on efficiency. So, uh, yeah, I hope you enjoy. 

Yohanna: Hello there, listeners. Welcome back to the Buzz. It's an honor to sit with Justin Wade. Justin is the new chair of our 2027 Voyagers program, our professional development program.

Yohanna: How are you feeling? Justin? Please introduce yourself. 

Justin: Yeah, thank you. I'm Justin Wade. I'm currently the Chief Technology Officer, uh, within the Interior Business Center, uh, part of the Department of the Interior. Um, we're a federal shared [00:01:00] service provider doing it work in the realm of hr, uh, acquisitions and financial management.

Justin: Um, have a pretty long, lengthy career within IT leadership and happy to be here today. 

Yohanna: You're, you're stepping into this leadership role at a moment when the government, tech and our environment a little bit are like unstrained. There's a lot going on that takes the timing of your Yes. Especially interesting.

Yohanna: You've agreed to serve as the 2027 Voyagers Chair during a period of significant pressure across government and industry. What made this the right moment for you to step into this responsibility? 

Justin: Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm, I'm really excited about this. I think now. Because of everything going on is really a critical time to prepare our future leaders for change.

Justin: They have to be ready for everything, be agile in every sense of the word, not just in the it sense, and really willing to reassess the way things have always been done to [00:02:00] take a a clean eye. Break the rules. Let's see what we can do to make things better. Where can we go with this? Um, the, the game is challenge.

Justin: The game is changing and it's challenging. Leaders need to be able to embrace that, and I think that that's really key right now is that leaders aren't always ready for that. This is unprecedented times. And so taking the opportunity to really get out there and help train the next generation of our leaders to be ready for these kinds of things is, is imperative to me.

Justin: Um, it, it really opens up the gates. How we're gonna do business in the future? Where are we going? What can we do? How can we get there without having to stop along the way? With all the things that have slowed us down in the past, there's really great opportunity to improve our IT practices, and that's done through leadership and from the folks down below.

Justin: It's imperative that we take advantage of this time. To redefine what that looks like. Um, I, I've seen firsthand how critical it is to [00:03:00] be able to roll with the punches and find new ways of doing things. So I, I'm excited about it 

Yohanna: to really understand your decision, maybe it helps for us to rewind a bit.

Yohanna: Can you walk us through your path into, you know, the tech leadership space? What first drew you to this kind of work and, and how did that journey ultimately lead you to your current role as, as CTO? 

Justin: No, absolutely. Um, you know, it, it's funny, a lot of people either bounce through majors in college or bounce through careers or things like that, and I, you know, there's, there's a lot of people shift focus and everything.

Justin: I'm, I'm the oddball. I started, you know, doing it back in first grade, literally, uh, learning the Apple basic programming language and boy 

Yohanna: Oh wow. Okay. 

Justin: I knew it, that's what I wanted to do for life. And it's never changed. It's never wavered for me. And so I've, I've, I considered myself lucky that I've, I stumbled onto something that I just truly love and always have truly loved.

Justin: Um, growing up we didn't, we didn't have much, I couldn't afford a pc, so I spent many, many, many hours in the computer lab [00:04:00] and that probably. That drive that want to have something that was harder for me, probably drove me a little bit harder to go in that direction as well. Um, eventually I went to CU Denver, uh, university of Colorado, Denver, got a Bachelor's of Science in computer science, continuing down that path.

Justin: Um, when I got my first job, my first professional job, it was with American Management Systems. When I was 19 years old, I was a sophomore in college. And boy was that exciting. I, I came in as a Unix system administrator to start, um, for the first couple months I was an intern and then I went to full-time and within a couple months after that, I was leading the team and, and it was just something that I jumped into both feet and really, really enjoyed it.

Justin: Um. Moving forward after that, there was a phase where I kind of got up into this, like some entrepreneurial type things. Uh, I worked for venture capital firms, building it, uh, companies from scratch, small companies, uh, here in [00:05:00] Denver, Colorado. And. That was a lot of fun, but it was a little unstable 'cause I always had to chase after work and, and do things like that and justify it to the venture capital firms.

Justin: And I wanted to get to something a little bit more stable, uh, starting to have a family and such. So that's when I came to the Department of the Interior. Um, and that was. Right around 2005, I think. So it was a while ago. I've been here for, for some time. Um, and I started out as a contractor of managing folks.

Justin: Eventually came a federal employee and worked myself up to the associate Chief, chief Information Officer for the Office of the Secretary Boy, that gave me some. Perspective on large scale leadership that, that I hadn't experienced previously. Um, fast forward after doing that for a couple years, and I came back to the Interior Business Center, which is a shared service provider within the Department of the Interior as their chief technology officer to really try to drive, modernization and get to all the things that we were talking [00:06:00] about earlier.

Yohanna: Well, that's a fun path. I think every leadership path has those inflection points. You know, like, oh, well I want something stable. Let me, let me turn here. I'm gonna make a left up up here. These VCs are strange. Hold on, let me bump the brakes. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a right over here. Um, I think that these moments, sometimes they quietly just change how you show up as a leader as well.

Yohanna: 'cause you're taking, you know, you're, you're making big decisions. Looking back, which decision or. I guess experiences most shape the way that you now think about leadership in tech? 

Justin: Sure. Yeah. There's definitely been a few pivotal career moments for me. Um, going back to when I was doing the IT setup for the small businesses, that really taught me a couple different things.

Justin: When you're the only IT person and they point at a building and say, go set up it in that building, dummy tell you, you learn a lot doing that, it, it taught me resilience, it taught me a ton of technical skills and. I learned that it's not always about having [00:07:00] all the answers. It's about being courageous enough to get out there and build things, learn things, admit when you don't know things, and just lead through the uncertainty, um, every, and then it also taught me a lot on the, uh, business side of things.

Justin: Again, as I spoke to, of going after contracts and dealing with being the entrepreneurial side of things and getting work for myself. Um. So I, I think that was a very pivotal role for me, uh, to, to learn about leadership in that sense. And then fast forward again to that being the Associate Chief Information Officer for the Office of Secretary, uh, having oversight over 48 offices and truly being at that executive leadership level.

Justin: Gave me a whole different perspective on it. It, it, it became, I ran the entire office myself. So I had to learn how, what do I do about all my people that need, uh, space, office space and paying for rent for that, and what kind of telecom needs do we have, you know, all the, the business [00:08:00] stuff. And then.

Justin: Dealing with the executive leadership throughout the Department of the Interior, which is a very large organization, and, and getting to know how the bureaus work and the different areas at such a large scale. It was, it was truly a, a moment of growth for me. Um, and, and it really redefined my philosophy of balancing technical depth.

Justin: With business, strategic leadership and business sense, uh, and being able to marry those two, which I really enjoyed. 

Yohanna: Yeah. That, that perspective, that collaboration, that's exactly what the Voyagers program is. It's meant to surface and sharpen that perspective from where you sit. How should the Voyagers program evolve to strengthen leadership across the federal tech ecosystem for the next few years?

Yohanna: What, what's your, what's your take on that? 

Justin: Yeah, and, and I've seen this firsthand with ACT IAC and specifically with the Voyagers program of kind of redefining ourselves, you know, how do we, how do we proceed in this new environment? And [00:09:00] I applaud, act IAC for recognizing that and realizing, and I completely agree with it's time to shape the next generation workforce.

Justin: And it's going to be different. And we not, don't need to just accept that, we need to lean into it and, and really develop our programs around that concept that things are different. How do we proceed in the new world? Um, it, it's great that the programs offer cross agency perspectives. You get to see many, many different perspectives from throughout the federal government, uh, which is eyeopening, how different things are done in different areas, and then tying that to industry exposure, getting to know the companies that work with the government day in and day out, and seeing how the interactions work and understanding.

Justin: Even just down to the basic business processes, how things work, because there's things that you might do from the government perspective that might make things extremely difficult or a lot easier for the industry side of the house and the industry side of the house might not know [00:10:00] certain things that the government does that might make that relationship better.

Justin: And so that, that exposure to both sides, I think is. Is paramount in being able to develop a leadership strategy for the future. I, I was also gonna say that they, they include industry leading training, which I think is great as well. Um, and then again, the peer networking that you get through that will serve folks throughout their entire career 

Yohanna: leadership programs.

Yohanna: They usually reflect the values of the people guiding them. It's refreshing to hear your perspective, how you're, you know, you're on the government side, but you're like. We know that sometimes the things that the industry, you know, does, or the government does, like, we need to be able to work together. We need to be able to communicate all the things that we need, you know?

Yohanna: What do you think are the values that, or maybe lived experiences and leadership principles, what do you most want to bring into the Voyagers as chair? 

Justin: Yeah. Uh, there, there's always been one belief that I have held through. My entire career and I hold absolutely paramount [00:11:00] people are our most valuable asset.

Justin: There's bar none. Full stop. People are the most valuable asset. It, it, it truly is like. Worth it to think of that. And believe me, like I kind of spoke to, I am rooted in tech. I am highly technical. I understand a lot of things, and it's easy to lose track when you come from that perspective that you have to balance that technical depth with human focus.

Justin: Without the people, the work doesn't happen. And the people don't just work. They need to be led and they need to be happy about being led in a manner that they think they're giving back and adding value. And so there, there's a balance of that. And I mean, I'll say at the same time, I have very high expectations of my people.

Justin: And I've, I've definitely heard that from a lot of people. If issues come up and something happens, performance starts to slip. I will do everything to support my people and be it training, be it what, coaching, mentoring, whatever I can do, I will provide it for 'em. Flip side, we [00:12:00] have to hold our people accountable when improvement isn't possible.

Justin: And so there, there's a line there too. I'll do anything I can for the folks that give their all, but there has to be accountability to balance with that. And I think that that that actually helps the dynamic to really show that it is a people focus because we want to be the most highly performing team.

Justin: Everybody wants to perform. They want to be on the winning team. And so I really think that that's how we get there. 

Yohanna: You wanna, if you need to be point guard, you'll be point guard. If you're power forward, you're power forward, whatever it is that you need to do to win the game, you know? 

Justin: Exactly. 

Yohanna: Because I mean, and I say this because I know that you've led teams in high stakes, complex environments, places where, you know, theory meets reality relatively.

Yohanna: Quickly. Um, what's one leadership lesson you have, you know, to learn what's one, what's something that people learn maybe the hard way and something you wish you understood earlier in your career? 

Justin: Sure, yeah, [00:13:00] there, there's definitely one thing that stands out to me that was a challenge for me personally.

Justin: Um, the first part, not a challenge. Be humble. Don't, don't walk into the room thinking you know better than everybody else. And, and, you know, being egotistical. But, and here's where I, the challenge comes in for me, you have to be able to promote yourself. You have to be able to advocate for yourself without sounding egotistical and coming off as a know-it-all.

Justin: And that line is really, really difficult to walk. For me, it wasn't so much the overly confident part, but the being able to advocate for myself without feeling like I was coming off in that manner. That took a long time for me to kind of work through, and it wasn't just, it wasn't just the feeling of, of that, it was, I always thought that my work alone will demonstrate who I am and what I can do, and I've learned the hard way that that is not necessarily always true.

Justin: You need to advocate for yourself. You need to let folks know what you're doing. [00:14:00] Get out there, market yourself, build visibility, and, and this is one of the key things I think that the Voyager program really helps with is to develop that skill. It, it, it lets you get yourself aware in the greater industry and very, very, very much bring yourself out there.

Justin: Build a brand for yourself. 

Yohanna: Folks rarely promote themselves and it's difficult to kind of brand yourself. And I also strongly believe that few leaders kind of get to where they're going alone, and so they have an audience of folks that see that work. You know, how, how have mentors or coaches shaped your growth?

Yohanna: How does that influence the way that you plan to, to show up for the participants of the Voyages program? 

Justin: Oh, absolutely. Mentors play a critical role. Um, and, and it's ironic because I had mentors throughout my entire career and I can think back to way, way, way back, uh, that have helped me throughout. I didn't really realize it because the, the [00:15:00] formal name of mentor was not always put towards somebody, but they absolutely existed.

Justin: They always provided guidance perspectives and they were a trusted advisor throughout my career that I could talk to, get ideas about things, run by ideas, and even in some points, open doors for me in, in future endeavors. Um. My approach to the voyagers is kind of twofold. First is to advocate for mentor participation from fellows and those in industry and government that I think would be great mentors.

Justin: Really going out there and knocking down the doors of people that have helped me, people that I see out there, that I respect, and that I think could bring a lot of value to with their experiences, to the voyagers and then to the other side. I definitely offer my time both formally and informally to folks so that they can help learn from my experiences, and I just love hearing what they're going through as well.

Justin: It's, it's a lot of fun for me to hear the challenges that are out there [00:16:00] and to, even if we don't have answers, just to talk through them sometimes. Just being able to describe a challenge is enough to help give that breadcrumb that leads 'em down the right path. 

Yohanna: Some folks listening, they're in that in-between phase.

Yohanna: They're experienced, they're capable, but maybe they're unsure of what that next move should be. So maybe the, I hope they're getting a breadcrumb now. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Yohanna: What, what, uh, what guidance would you offer mid-career, uh, technologist who feel stuck or maybe a little restless or uncertain about their, their next step?

Justin: Yeah, boy, and, and this is such a, a critical time too, because there's so much change that I'm sure there's probably quite a few people that are kind of feeling stuck at the moment. So I think it's, it's a good time to have that discussion. Um, my advice would be to, to look inward, really think about what excites you, what gets you motivated, what gets you going, uh, look around and see.

Justin: Is there a new technology that you really wanna focus on? Is there [00:17:00] something that you want, like more in your career, do you want more leadership? Do you want a bigger span of control or, or is there just something entirely differently? You know, do a lot of soul searching because. Don't chase the money, don't chase the title.

Justin: Go after what will drive you as a person and then you will be successful. And because success can be defined in a million different ways, and it's very personal, if you're doing something you love and you go to work and you're happy to be there. That's what success is. And then once you get an idea of like where you want to go, what you wanna do, identify the barriers that you need to overcome to get there, and then commit to overcoming them.

Justin: That part's challenging, especially if folks are really stuck and you know you're working many hours and you probably have family commitments and things like that. Adding in the investment and actual training or the time, money, whatever resources that you need. To overcome the barriers to getting you to where you need to be, to be [00:18:00] happy.

Justin: Really, really commit to overcoming those and, and there's challenge there. But if you want to be successful, that's something that I believe that you have to do. And then kind of going back again, market yourself, go out to conferences, network with other folks, really build your personal brand. Use professional platforms to share your expertise and your experience.

Justin: That again, go out there and advocate for yourself. Let people know who you are, what you want to be known for, and what you want to do. Don't think that it's like pie in the sky. Throw it out there because that's how you get to what will make you happy. And then when you're done, combine clarity, preparation, and visibility.

Justin: That will bring you new opportunities. 

Yohanna: Yeah, I like that. It feels really clear too. 

Justin: No, and I really do believe it. I mean, I come from it from a, 

Yohanna: yeah, 

Justin: like I said, I, I'm definitely started out far more focused on the technical side and analytical and planning and, you know, that's, that's my personality. And so how do I tie [00:19:00] that into like the personal aspects, the people aspects, things like that.

Justin: And that, that's been the learning side for me through the years. 

Yohanna: Because, I mean, it's gonna be difficult, but you're, you have to be brave in order to try at least, you know, you never really know until you try. 

Justin: Exactly. Yeah. 

Yohanna: Leadership today isn't just about. People, I think technology is really, really fast.

Yohanna: You know, technology accelerates way too fast now. So how should our new emerging leaders balance that deep technical expertise with the broader, you know, strategic skills that you so beautifully laid out? What are those skills required to lead organizations? 

Justin: Oh, absolutely. Uh, it's unprecedented how quickly technology is changing.

Justin: Now. There is absolutely no doubt about that whatsoever. It, we haven't seen ch change like this ever. Uh, there's a lot of statistics posted about it and, you know, it goes back to looking at all the disruptive technologies that come through the world. Um. Going [00:20:00] back to the internet, going back to railroads, way back when, going back to the industrial revolutions, things that really disrupted the way we do things as people.

Justin: And boy, things are changing faster now than they ever have before. Um. It's exciting and daunting at the same time. And, and believe me, you are not alone if you feel daunted by it, there's, there's a lot going on and it can be a little scary. Um, but being able to take all that into stride and see it as an opportunity, really being able to take the technology behind it that's changing and, and trying to stay on top of it as best as possible, which is almost impossible these days, but doing the best that you can.

Justin: Then mapping that to your strategic vision. Where do you want to go as a leader? What is your vision of what you want to be? And sometimes the technology and the vision might even be at odds with each other, and you need to be able to reconcile that and figure out. [00:21:00] Where you want to go with your leadership philosophy?

Justin: Which direction do you take? If you can bridge that gap between those two things, the deep technology and the strategic vision, you really can redefine what leadership looks like. Um, and and how do you do that? Well, you build on the strengths. You know what you're good at. You continue to build at that.

Justin: Never abandon your strengths. But also recognize your weaknesses and focus. Going back to again from the previous commit to making a plan and moving forward with strengthening your We weaknesses through volunteering for projects that you don't know anything about. Going through training, taking on.

Justin: Bigger things and, and talking to others with mentors and going to events and networking and hearing what other people are going through. You've gotta learn to balance that both in the strategy sense and the technology sense. And you're constantly gonna be redefining that because things are changing so quickly.

Justin: Uh, but if you're able to do that, then I truly [00:22:00] think that that's the key to propelling yourself in your career. 

Yohanna: What's a trend that you kind of see now in government tech? Or I guess an IT leadership that you think our new Voyagers participants should pay close attention to. A 

Justin: a and this one is gonna sound like beating a dead horse.

Justin: 'cause every other article and everything you hear is about ai and, and so I, I can't, I can't get through an interview without talking about artificial intelligence and, um, but. There's way more to it than that. The, the world is changing around us in the way that we're doing it, in the fact that there's a much larger emphasis on efficiency.

Justin: Not that we didn't care about efficiency before, but utilizing these new tools that are coming out with large language models and artificial intelligence and, and all this changing landscape around us that we talked about at this unprecedented rate, is also bringing an unprecedented rate of efficiency growth.

Justin: We are getting much, much faster, much, much better. We're doing that at an exponential pace. [00:23:00] Side effects of that is that it's changing the job landscape and you can't let it pass you by. New roles are being defined every day and we need to be able to adapt our leadership styles to accommodate what those new roles are going to be.

Justin: It it today, maybe we're doing something manually. Tomorrow that might be taken over and done automatically by some other type of technology. If you really focus though on the workforce and the positive intact to productivity. That exponential growth of technology will do nothing but help you get there along the way.

Justin: But again, it's all about constantly redefining your leadership and how you manage people and, and really reassessing on a very regular basis. What are the critical roles now, what kind of. Technology do we need people to focus on today knowing that that's going to change probably fairly rapidly. 

Yohanna: I mean, AI sounds exciting.

Yohanna: Innovation itself, you know, it sounds [00:24:00] exciting, but in practice it often runs into institutional friction. Can leaders, can they meaningfully foster innovation inside systems that are traditionally risk averse or. Slow to change. I think I, I don't know. I think yes, but I don't know. You, you, what do you think?

Justin: Oh, I definitely think so. Now that's not at all to understate the challenge on that. That is a monumental challenge. There are a lot of environments. Throughout it, and this goes throughout government industry, throughout where folks are just comfortable, they're used to doing what they do, and change is hard.

Justin: Change is hard for a lot of people, so building an understanding of how the new technologies work, showing them that it might make their lives easier or that it's, it's not going to replace them, but probably make them more efficient. Doing things like upskilling, um, showing them that this goes back to like the, the roles are changing and being [00:25:00] redefined, and they're constantly being redefined.

Justin: As long as you can be okay with that, you're gonna be in a great place, you know, accept the upskilling, bridge, the knowledge gaps, and. Really as a leader, you have to appeal to folks personally because this is rooted in a base fear, and you need to make them feel okay, you know that things are gonna change, but it's going to be okay and it's probably going to be better.

Justin: Change can bring positive things, positive feelings, and as leaders, I mean, this goes back to again, why I think right now is monumentally important within the Voyagers program to train leaders. To give that sense of calm to their people, to let them know that it's gonna be okay, and then really demonstrate with them that you focus on outcomes.

Justin: It's a non-judgmental thing. You're not good or bad. We just need to find out what's the quickest path to getting the work done in the most efficient manner, and that's going to change [00:26:00] on a day-to-day basis with the technology that changes around it. We love people to be there with us, and it's exciting and it's fun.

Yohanna: Act IAC has been around for a really long time. We sit at a crossroads of, you know, the, of industry and, and government. I think for us, collaboration is our bread and butter. We love it. We thrive in it. I think what, what you said really resonates with, with our listeners, what do you think is a, is a solid, authentic cross-sector collaboration map?

Yohanna: What, what does it look like? How do you encourage it in, in your practice? 

Justin: Sure. And again, like kind of you alluded to and we spoke of earlier, the act I act really, really is a stronghold in this area. Bringing government and industry together to be able to really have each other, talk to each other and understand different perspectives.

Justin: I mean, we're all doing it. You know, AI is out there. In the real world, AI is in the government world. Any, any world you choose, it's all the same ai. It's just different perspectives on how you [00:27:00] implement it, all the challenges with how you pay for it, all the infrastructure around it, those kinds of things.

Justin: They vary. You see, you see life through a different lens if you're on the government side than if you're on the industry side. And first, the recognition of that isn't paramount because I don't think that that's obvious. But then the second part is bringing those two sets of people together and being able to talk about those things because one doesn't function without the other.

Justin: And so that collaboration, again, leading back to it, this is a time when we're really looking at efficiency. Is key. Understanding each other's perspective will make things go so much easier and there will be so much less. Us versus them, and that should never be the case. We should always be partnered and Acti really provides a safe space for dialogue and diversity of thought, bringing in different ideas, bringing in different thoughts.

Justin: You're not at a critical place where if you misspeak, you lose a contract and there goes [00:28:00] 50% of your business for the company that you work for on the industry side, or you misspeak and there's a protest that your whole project's derailed for a year. On the government side, you know. This is the safe place to have those conversations where you don't have that kind of stakes.

Justin: Eating at you from behind. Um, and, and so take advantage of it, you know, learn from each other, learn different things. The one of the biggest things, honestly, from my perspective, was learning the industry's proposal process. Like, uh, being, having done it many times from the government perspective, sure, I know how that works.

Justin: But when you hand off. What happens to the proposal? What kind of people does it go through and realizing, oh, there's a cost piece to that. Like they have to pay people to go through proposals and write them and, and that's not obvious from the government side. And then I'm sure from the flip side, there's plenty of different things that could be listed from the industry side as well, where they don't expect things that happen within the [00:29:00] government to happen the way they do.

Justin: And, and so that's where the collaboration is really key. 

Yohanna: Yeah. Beneath the strategy and the structure, there's something that's even more foundational. I, you talked about it, just that psychological safety. When we're in groups, we can talk freely, you know, that's the kind of team culture that, that shape the success of technical teams, I think.

Yohanna: How do you, uh, see psychological safety and, and team culture shape the success of technical teams, especially during periods of. Of uncertainty. 

Justin: Sure. I'll, I'll tie this back to one of the earlier answers of the questions that people are our most valuable asset. If people don't feel safe, our most valuable asset is in jeopardy.

Justin: It it, it becomes a problem. Um, and it is with all the growth and all the changes happening at the unprecedented pace, that brings fear. And we need to recognize that. Admit that. Then figure out how we deal with it. [00:30:00] Because I think a lot of people, either the fear of dealing with it, um, or they just don't know how to, you know, how do, how do I make people feel better because I'm scared myself as a leader, you know that there's a lot of change.

Justin: How do we deal with all this? And you just get from that perspective, you sometimes can become overwhelmed. And so you, you've gotta be able to step back and every pivotal moment when there is. Craziness. When there's a lot of change, when things are really happening quickly, that is a key moment for opportunity.

Justin: It really, really opens a lot of doors of throw the rule book out and let's find a new way and make it better. A and so psychological safety is being able to get your team on that same path, to get them to understand that. Yes, things are changing on a daily basis. Decisions will be made today that will be overturned tomorrow and modified the following day, and that's okay.

Justin: And [00:31:00] so getting to that safe space. Is really empowering because if you can get folks to that, talking through the fears and, and really talking to them as people, you know, don't just say, whoa, what do you think about this IT project more of how does this affect you personally and have those personal conversations with them, relate to them at the personal level.

Justin: They're real people. When you go home at night, what eats at you have those kinds of conversations so that they can feel safe. That brings out bold ideas and innovation. That's where the magic happens. That's where you can start to find the big ideas. That will really change things. And I think that that's just critical right now because we are in that environment where change is at an unprecedented rate.

Justin: So really, really focus on people and build that culture of trust and support. 

Yohanna: We're almost, uh, wrapping up, so before we wrap up, let's humanize the journey a bit. You actually. Led me right into my next question. What's something that people [00:32:00] might be surprised to learn about you? I, I'm glad to hear that you spend a lot of time in the, in the computer lab.

Yohanna: 'cause I, I also was in the computer lab too, so just if you'd like to share any early missteps or maybe something that was unexpectedly influenced you, you know, from your formative experience that, that shaped you into the leader that you are today. 

Justin: Sure, sure. Yeah, I'll definitely, I'll go down the path of sharing something that.

Justin: Folks might not know about me, and I think it'll be a little bit insightful. Um, I've, I've played guitar since I was in junior high. Um, 

Yohanna: oh yeah. I was a, I was a drummer. I was in drum line. 

Justin: Oh, there you go. Yeah. Um. I have a minor in music composition and performance. That was my escape from technology. It was my way to get away from things.

Justin: I think people need something to decompress and that was, that was my thing. And uh, I've played in. When I was in high school, jazz bands and rock bands, um, [00:33:00] continued on as I did in, uh, college, learned to play piano and bass and a bunch of different instruments, um, and then even beyond college, played in bands around town, just playing at different clubs and stuff.

Justin: It really gave me that creative outlet and that escape, and I think that's imperative for our people. Again, people are not work. Work is a big part of what people build their identity off of, but it's not everything. People need an outlet. And, and this was my outlet, you know, I love rock music to this day and still love to play.

Justin: You need an outlet to bring out your creativity and, and I think that ties back to, it gives you the mindset to be more creative in your leadership at work as well. 

Yohanna: Oh yeah. Rock on dude. Let's end by looking ahead. As you think about the Voyager's 2027 cohort, what are your top priorities? What kind of impact do you hope these leaders will have on the broader community?

Justin: Absolutely. Uh, some of the highlights, I think understanding [00:34:00] perspectives, realizing that government and industry see things through different lenses, and just coming to that common understanding of why either side does what they do. Um, next I'd say embrace constant change and uncertainty, love, change.

Justin: And if you don't love change, find a way to be comfortable with it. Uh, 'cause I don't see this changing anytime soon. I don't see us going flatlining. Um, so you need to be able to do what you need to do. And we talked about some of the strategies earlier of how you get there and hopefully you have other folks that help you get there as well.

Justin: But learn how to embrace it and really see the opportunity that it provides you. Um. Then inspire and motivate even those who feel lost as leaders, we have to be the ones that bring along the people who are feeling left behind, those who are not easily dealing with all of the change that's going on. If, if we can bring those things together.

Justin: We will shape the future [00:35:00] generations of leaders and that will have a ripple effect for years to come. 

Yohanna: Absolutely. I see the vision. Thank you so much, Justin. Thank you so much for your time. 

Justin: Absolutely. Thank you too. 

Speaker 2: This has been such an insightful conversation. Thank you for sharing your journey and experiences.

Speaker 2: With us and to our listeners, if you are interested in learning more about ACT IX Professional Development Program, be sure to check out act iac.org/professional development. Until next time, keep learning, keep growing, and we will see you in the next episode.