{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.68,"body":"And the biggest"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.68,"body":"question that I would get from"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1.68,"endTime":4.68,"body":"people back then was, \"What are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1.68,"endTime":4.68,"body":"you going to do if you want to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":4.68,"endTime":8.16,"body":"start dating someone or if you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":4.68,"endTime":8.16,"body":"want to get married or like then"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":8.16,"endTime":10.17,"body":"what are you going to do?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":8.16,"endTime":10.17,"body":"Because this is too small of a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":10.17,"endTime":13.26,"body":"house.\" And so that was their"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":10.17,"endTime":13.26,"body":"main concern back then was what"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":13.26,"endTime":15.57,"body":"what impact will this have on my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":13.26,"endTime":15.57,"body":"love life?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":19.11,"endTime":21.72,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":19.11,"endTime":21.72,"body":"Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":21.72,"endTime":24.66,"body":"the show where you learn how to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":21.72,"endTime":24.66,"body":"plan,  build, and live the tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":24.66,"endTime":29.01,"body":"lifestyle. I'm your host, Ethan"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":24.66,"endTime":29.01,"body":"Waldman, and this is episode 154"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":29.04,"endTime":32.97,"body":"with Michelle Jones. Michelle"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":29.04,"endTime":32.97,"body":"Jones discovered the tiny house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":32.97,"endTime":36.72,"body":"movement well before most of us,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":32.97,"endTime":36.72,"body":"struck up a friendship with Dee"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":36.72,"endTime":40.8,"body":"Williams, and had her 84-square"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":36.72,"endTime":40.8,"body":"foot tiny house built by Dee's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":40.8,"endTime":45.39,"body":"company, Pad. She's been quietly"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":40.8,"endTime":45.39,"body":"living tiny in Portland, Oregon"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":45.39,"endTime":49.44,"body":"backyards for 11 years now, and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":45.39,"endTime":49.44,"body":"in a lot of ways tiny living has"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":49.44,"endTime":52.98,"body":"helped to guide and inspire her"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":49.44,"endTime":52.98,"body":"unconventional career choices."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":53.07,"endTime":56.01,"body":"In this interview, Michelle"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":53.07,"endTime":56.01,"body":"shares her reflections on living"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":56.01,"endTime":59.61,"body":"tiny for 11 years and some of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":56.01,"endTime":59.61,"body":"the unexpected things she has"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":59.61,"endTime":64.26,"body":"learned along the way. But"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":59.61,"endTime":64.26,"body":"before we get started, did you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":64.26,"endTime":68.46,"body":"know that I personally send a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":64.26,"endTime":68.46,"body":"tiny house newsletter every week"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":68.46,"endTime":72.9,"body":"on Tuesdays? It's called Tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":68.46,"endTime":72.9,"body":"Tuesdays and it's a weekly email"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":72.9,"endTime":76.17,"body":"with tiny house news,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":72.9,"endTime":76.17,"body":"interviews, photos, and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":76.17,"endTime":79.38,"body":"resources. It's free to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":76.17,"endTime":79.38,"body":"subscribe and I even share sneak"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":79.38,"endTime":83.04,"body":"peeks of things that are coming"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":79.38,"endTime":83.04,"body":"up, ask for feedback about"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":83.13,"endTime":86.79,"body":"upcoming podcast guests, and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":83.13,"endTime":86.79,"body":"more. It's really the best place"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":86.79,"endTime":89.94,"body":"to keep a pulse on what I'm"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":86.79,"endTime":89.94,"body":"doing in the tiny house space"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":90.12,"endTime":93.57,"body":"and also stay informed of what's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":90.12,"endTime":93.57,"body":"going on in the tiny house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":93.57,"endTime":99.0,"body":"movement. To sign up, go to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":93.57,"endTime":99.0,"body":"thetinyhouse.net/newsletter,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":99.18,"endTime":102.21,"body":"where you can sign up for the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":99.18,"endTime":102.21,"body":"Tiny Tuesday's newsletter. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":102.21,"endTime":105.27,"body":"of course, you can unsubscribe"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":102.21,"endTime":105.27,"body":"at any time. I will never send"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":105.27,"endTime":108.21,"body":"you spam. And if you ever don't"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":105.27,"endTime":108.21,"body":"want to receive emails, it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":108.21,"endTime":110.82,"body":"easy to unsubscribe. So again,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":108.21,"endTime":110.82,"body":"that's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":113.04,"endTime":116.34,"body":"thetinyhouse.net/newsletter."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":113.04,"endTime":116.34,"body":"Thanks and I hope you enjoy next"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":116.34,"endTime":118.11,"body":"week's Tiny Tuesdays newsletter."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":129.28,"endTime":132.79,"body":"All right, I am here with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":129.28,"endTime":132.79,"body":"Michelle Jones. Michelle is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":132.79,"endTime":135.88,"body":"doing her life's work right now,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":132.79,"endTime":135.88,"body":"which is exhilarating and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":135.88,"endTime":139.45,"body":"terrifying. Her purpose in life"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":135.88,"endTime":139.45,"body":"is to help others figure out"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":139.45,"endTime":143.05,"body":"what they want to do with their"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":139.45,"endTime":143.05,"body":"lives and start doing it. Five"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":143.05,"endTime":145.6,"body":"years ago, she gathered a group"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":143.05,"endTime":145.6,"body":"of like-minded friends and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":145.6,"endTime":148.48,"body":"colleagues around a vision of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":145.6,"endTime":148.48,"body":"what a revolution in higher"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":148.48,"endTime":152.11,"body":"education could look like. After"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":148.48,"endTime":152.11,"body":"years of volunteering with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":152.11,"endTime":154.9,"body":"groups and nonprofits to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":152.11,"endTime":154.9,"body":"organize for social impact,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":155.14,"endTime":158.29,"body":"Michelle took the leap and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":155.14,"endTime":158.29,"body":"Wayfinding Academy was born."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":159.01,"endTime":161.32,"body":"They're still learning as they"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":159.01,"endTime":161.32,"body":"grow, but they are definitely"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":161.32,"endTime":165.16,"body":"seeing some ripple effects of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":161.32,"endTime":165.16,"body":"change in higher education. When"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":165.16,"endTime":168.07,"body":"not ruffling the feathers of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":165.16,"endTime":168.07,"body":"traditional higher education,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":168.28,"endTime":172.12,"body":"Michelle can be found walking"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":168.28,"endTime":172.12,"body":"the Camino de Santiago with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":172.12,"endTime":175.93,"body":"fellow Wayfinders (this summer"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":172.12,"endTime":175.93,"body":"will be her seventh time) or"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":175.93,"endTime":179.2,"body":"relaxing at her tiny home in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":175.93,"endTime":179.2,"body":"Portland, Oregon. Michelle"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":179.2,"endTime":180.46,"body":"Jones, welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":181.26,"endTime":182.76,"body":"Thank you,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":181.26,"endTime":182.76,"body":"Ethan. It's wonderful to be"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":182.76,"endTime":183.15,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":183.27,"endTime":185.31,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":183.27,"endTime":185.31,"body":"wonderful to have you. And I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":185.31,"endTime":187.71,"body":"couldn't help but notice the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":185.31,"endTime":187.71,"body":"parallels that, you know, you're"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":187.71,"endTime":191.94,"body":"ruffling the feathers of higher"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":187.71,"endTime":191.94,"body":"education, but you also 11 years"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":192.06,"endTime":195.27,"body":"ago, decided that you're going"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":192.06,"endTime":195.27,"body":"to ruffle the feathers of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":195.27,"endTime":197.16,"body":"traditional housing norms."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":198.62,"endTime":201.05,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":198.62,"endTime":201.05,"body":"didn't... Obviously, 11 years"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":201.05,"endTime":204.38,"body":"ago, when I decided to do the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":201.05,"endTime":204.38,"body":"tiny house thing I didn't I did"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":204.38,"endTime":208.37,"body":"not in any way think of it as"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":204.38,"endTime":208.37,"body":"preparation for like future"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":208.37,"endTime":212.06,"body":"professional ruffling of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":208.37,"endTime":212.06,"body":"feathers career work. But it was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":212.06,"endTime":217.25,"body":"good practice. Because just sort"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":212.06,"endTime":217.25,"body":"of being in the habit of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":217.25,"endTime":220.37,"body":"questioning the norm and saying,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":217.25,"endTime":220.37,"body":"\"Why does this have to be this"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":220.37,"endTime":223.07,"body":"way? And is there a better way"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":220.37,"endTime":223.07,"body":"to do it? And is there a better"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":223.07,"endTime":226.1,"body":"way for me that personally, if"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":223.07,"endTime":226.1,"body":"it's me better to do it?\" That"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":226.1,"endTime":229.13,"body":"turns out to be all the same"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":226.1,"endTime":229.13,"body":"stuff that I later asked about"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":229.13,"endTime":232.19,"body":"in my professional career that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":229.13,"endTime":232.19,"body":"led me to start Wayfinding"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":232.19,"endTime":235.94,"body":"Academy. So it turned out to be"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":232.19,"endTime":235.94,"body":"good practice. Unintentional."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":236.81,"endTime":239.9,"body":"Yeah. Very cool."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":236.81,"endTime":239.9,"body":"You never know what what the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":239.9,"endTime":242.6,"body":"things you're doing now will"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":239.9,"endTime":242.6,"body":"lead you to do in the future."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":243.08,"endTime":244.01,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":244.91,"endTime":249.08,"body":"So I'm curious."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":244.91,"endTime":249.08,"body":"What was the the wake up call"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":249.11,"endTime":253.73,"body":"that kind of led you to go tiny?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":249.11,"endTime":253.73,"body":"Was it like the bolt of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":253.73,"endTime":256.37,"body":"lightning struck in the middle"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":253.73,"endTime":256.37,"body":"of the night? Or was it kind of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":256.58,"endTime":258.23,"body":"a more slow and gradual process?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":260.13,"endTime":264.03,"body":"Um, I think it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":260.13,"endTime":264.03,"body":"was both - a little bit of both."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":264.48,"endTime":270.69,"body":"I had, when I chose to do the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":264.48,"endTime":270.69,"body":"tiny house thing about three"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":270.69,"endTime":274.83,"body":"years before that. I guess this"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":270.69,"endTime":274.83,"body":"is another example of me"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":274.83,"endTime":277.83,"body":"ruffling feathers and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":274.83,"endTime":277.83,"body":"questioning the status quo. But"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":277.83,"endTime":282.57,"body":"I left like a tenure track"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":277.83,"endTime":282.57,"body":"professor job on the East Coast"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":282.9,"endTime":286.11,"body":"for ethical reasons. And I had a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":282.9,"endTime":286.11,"body":"big house I had like a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":286.11,"endTime":291.18,"body":"2100-square foot house with five"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":286.11,"endTime":291.18,"body":"bedrooms and, you know, East"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":291.18,"endTime":296.16,"body":"Coast style house. And I bought"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":291.18,"endTime":296.16,"body":"it I owned it, well had a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":296.16,"endTime":301.47,"body":"mortgage on it. And when I quit"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":296.16,"endTime":301.47,"body":"that job, I packed up my car and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":301.47,"endTime":306.96,"body":"my pets and traveled across the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":301.47,"endTime":306.96,"body":"country to go take a break and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":306.96,"endTime":309.39,"body":"live in New Mexico for a little"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":306.96,"endTime":309.39,"body":"while while I figured out what"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":309.39,"endTime":313.62,"body":"to do next. And that, to me was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":309.39,"endTime":313.62,"body":"sort of the lightning bolt"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":313.62,"endTime":318.0,"body":"experience, because I only took"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":313.62,"endTime":318.0,"body":"with me what I could fit in my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":318.0,"endTime":322.56,"body":"car along with my pet, which was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":318.0,"endTime":322.56,"body":"not very much. And then I lived"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":322.56,"endTime":326.22,"body":"off of just that live with with"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":322.56,"endTime":326.22,"body":"just those belongings for a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":326.22,"endTime":332.1,"body":"year. And that I think was a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":326.22,"endTime":332.1,"body":"transformative moment for me"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":332.1,"endTime":335.73,"body":"realizing that I don't need a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":332.1,"endTime":335.73,"body":"whole lot of stuff I can live"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":335.73,"endTime":340.68,"body":"really simply, I can be very"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":335.73,"endTime":340.68,"body":"happy in that. And then, and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":340.68,"endTime":343.83,"body":"then it was a three year process"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":340.68,"endTime":343.83,"body":"of, you know, returning to the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":343.83,"endTime":347.4,"body":"East Coast, getting all of my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":343.83,"endTime":347.4,"body":"belongings, selling most of them"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":347.4,"endTime":352.62,"body":"selling the house, and then"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":347.4,"endTime":352.62,"body":"preparing while I rented a house"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":352.83,"endTime":357.0,"body":"in the Pacific Northwest while I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":352.83,"endTime":357.0,"body":"was teaching again, and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":358.02,"endTime":362.1,"body":"preparing to go tiny. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":358.02,"endTime":362.1,"body":"realize though at that, at that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":362.1,"endTime":364.74,"body":"moment, when I packed the car"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":362.1,"endTime":364.74,"body":"drove across the country, that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":364.74,"endTime":368.1,"body":"tiny houses were a thing. I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":364.74,"endTime":368.1,"body":"don't even think they quite"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":368.13,"endTime":371.76,"body":"were, just yet. And so it was a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":368.13,"endTime":371.76,"body":"couple years after that. But I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":371.76,"endTime":375.15,"body":"was on a cross country road trip"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":371.76,"endTime":375.15,"body":"visiting a bunch of friends that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":375.15,"endTime":378.15,"body":"a friend of mine who had lived I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":375.15,"endTime":378.15,"body":"had lived with in New Mexico in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":378.15,"endTime":381.93,"body":"a shared house. She gave me a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":378.15,"endTime":381.93,"body":"magazine and that she had stolen"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":381.93,"endTime":383.88,"body":"from a doctor's office because"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":381.93,"endTime":383.88,"body":"she thought I'd like the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":383.88,"endTime":388.26,"body":"article. And she gave me a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":383.88,"endTime":388.26,"body":"magazine and said, I just heard"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":388.26,"endTime":390.69,"body":"about this tiny house thing, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":388.26,"endTime":390.69,"body":"think you should check out this"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":390.72,"endTime":395.46,"body":"article. And it was an article"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":390.72,"endTime":395.46,"body":"about Dee Williams. And to my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":395.46,"endTime":398.76,"body":"surprise, and delight Dee lived"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":395.46,"endTime":398.76,"body":"just an hour from me in her tiny"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":398.76,"endTime":403.62,"body":"house. So I struck up a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":398.76,"endTime":403.62,"body":"conversation. And that's when I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":403.62,"endTime":407.34,"body":"think I'd had my second"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":403.62,"endTime":407.34,"body":"lightning bolt of awareness and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":407.34,"endTime":411.3,"body":"realization that there was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":407.34,"endTime":411.3,"body":"another way I could do this. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":411.3,"endTime":413.64,"body":"I'd say those three years in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":411.3,"endTime":413.64,"body":"between was maybe me trying to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":413.64,"endTime":417.18,"body":"figure out how do I how do I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":413.64,"endTime":417.18,"body":"live simply and how do I live in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":417.18,"endTime":420.57,"body":"a space like this? Yeah. So it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":417.18,"endTime":420.57,"body":"was both, I guess several"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":420.57,"endTime":424.14,"body":"lightning bolts but also a sort"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":420.57,"endTime":424.14,"body":"of a slow process."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":425.2,"endTime":433.48,"body":"Cool. Yeah. Like,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":425.2,"endTime":433.48,"body":"like many good processes are. So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":433.57,"endTime":437.35,"body":"11 years ago, as you said, tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":433.57,"endTime":437.35,"body":"houses really weren't yet a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":437.35,"endTime":444.25,"body":"thing. So I'm curious, was there"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":437.35,"endTime":444.25,"body":"did you experience any pushback"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":444.25,"endTime":448.33,"body":"from your professional community"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":444.25,"endTime":448.33,"body":"or your your friends or family."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":451.78,"endTime":454.06,"body":"I was restarting"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":451.78,"endTime":454.06,"body":"my professional community at"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":454.06,"endTime":459.19,"body":"that moment. So I didn't have a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":454.06,"endTime":459.19,"body":"lot of people who had I had just"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":460.9,"endTime":463.63,"body":"had taken that year off in New"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":460.9,"endTime":463.63,"body":"Mexico is a break. And then I'd"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":463.63,"endTime":467.89,"body":"gone back into teaching and I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":463.63,"endTime":467.89,"body":"was looking for jobs, and was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":467.89,"endTime":470.68,"body":"sort of was flexible about where"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":467.89,"endTime":470.68,"body":"I would take a job because I now"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":470.68,"endTime":473.05,"body":"had a house on wheels and could"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":470.68,"endTime":473.05,"body":"go literally anywhere."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":474.07,"endTime":479.14,"body":"Ironically, I moved around a lot"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":474.07,"endTime":479.14,"body":"in my life before having a tiny"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":479.14,"endTime":482.08,"body":"house. And for the past 11"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":479.14,"endTime":482.08,"body":"years, I have stayed put in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":482.08,"endTime":485.53,"body":"Portland. So I finally get a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":482.08,"endTime":485.53,"body":"house on wheels where I can go"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":485.53,"endTime":488.86,"body":"live anywhere. And I don't I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":485.53,"endTime":488.86,"body":"choose not to leave, although I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":488.86,"endTime":497.41,"body":"have moved it around town. So"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":488.86,"endTime":497.41,"body":"surprisingly, I when I took the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":497.41,"endTime":500.11,"body":"job at it was at Concordia"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":497.41,"endTime":500.11,"body":"University in Portland. And when"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":500.11,"endTime":504.04,"body":"I took that job, I had to find a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":500.11,"endTime":504.04,"body":"place to park my house. In"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":504.04,"endTime":508.09,"body":"Portland, I knew nobody here."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":504.04,"endTime":508.09,"body":"And so I made up a little flyer"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":508.09,"endTime":510.79,"body":"and asked the people at"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":508.09,"endTime":510.79,"body":"Concordia, if they would"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":510.79,"endTime":513.79,"body":"circulate it for me and try to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":510.79,"endTime":513.79,"body":"help me find a place to park my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":513.79,"endTime":518.56,"body":"house. And I held my breath a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":513.79,"endTime":518.56,"body":"little on that because these are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":518.56,"endTime":521.02,"body":"brand new colleagues, they"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":518.56,"endTime":521.02,"body":"didn't know me at all, I'd never"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":521.02,"endTime":525.01,"body":"met them. I was probably the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":521.02,"endTime":525.01,"body":"first person they'd ever heard"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":525.01,"endTime":529.39,"body":"of who lived in a tiny house. So"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":525.01,"endTime":529.39,"body":"this was all very strange. But"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":529.39,"endTime":533.35,"body":"they were so friendly and so"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":529.39,"endTime":533.35,"body":"welcoming, and so excited. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":533.35,"endTime":536.35,"body":"it was a weird first impression"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":533.35,"endTime":536.35,"body":"for me to make. But it turns"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":536.35,"endTime":541.0,"body":"out, it was an accurate one. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":536.35,"endTime":541.0,"body":"that's how I found a place to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":541.0,"endTime":543.22,"body":"park was through that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":541.0,"endTime":543.22,"body":"professional network at work."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":545.02,"endTime":549.31,"body":"While my house was being built,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":545.02,"endTime":549.31,"body":"I had the design plans. And I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":549.31,"endTime":552.07,"body":"was driving around again on a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":549.31,"endTime":552.07,"body":"road trip around the country"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":552.07,"endTime":555.04,"body":"visiting family and friends. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":552.07,"endTime":555.04,"body":"every time I visited somebody"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":555.04,"endTime":557.71,"body":"and take out the design plans,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":555.04,"endTime":557.71,"body":"and I lay them out on the table."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":558.07,"endTime":561.4,"body":"And I tell stories about oh, you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":558.07,"endTime":561.4,"body":"know, the bathroom is going to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":561.4,"endTime":563.68,"body":"be over here. And oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":561.4,"endTime":563.68,"body":"thinking this for here. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":564.88,"endTime":568.87,"body":"everybody was very excited. By"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":564.88,"endTime":568.87,"body":"now they've sort of expected me"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":568.87,"endTime":573.13,"body":"to live in a little bit of a non"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":568.87,"endTime":573.13,"body":"traditional way. And the biggest"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":573.13,"endTime":577.06,"body":"question that I would get from"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":573.13,"endTime":577.06,"body":"people back then was, \"What are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":577.06,"endTime":579.73,"body":"you going to do if you want to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":577.06,"endTime":579.73,"body":"start dating someone or if you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":579.73,"endTime":582.52,"body":"want to get married or like then"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":579.73,"endTime":582.52,"body":"what are you going to do?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":582.52,"endTime":586.54,"body":"Because this is too small of a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":582.52,"endTime":586.54,"body":"house.\" And so that was their"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":586.54,"endTime":590.02,"body":"main concern back then was what"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":586.54,"endTime":590.02,"body":"what impact will this have on my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":590.02,"endTime":594.79,"body":"love life? I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":590.02,"endTime":594.79,"body":"that's pushback or just concern"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":594.79,"endTime":598.24,"body":"or whatever. But that was the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":594.79,"endTime":598.24,"body":"biggest question."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":599.26,"endTime":601.78,"body":"What did you tell"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":599.26,"endTime":601.78,"body":"them then and what would you say"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":601.78,"endTime":602.47,"body":"to them now?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":609.01,"endTime":612.19,"body":"At the time?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":609.01,"endTime":612.19,"body":"Well, no, I guess I would"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":612.22,"endTime":616.36,"body":"probably say the same thing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":612.22,"endTime":616.36,"body":"then. And now, at the time, what"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":616.36,"endTime":621.76,"body":"I said was, \"Well, I assume that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":616.36,"endTime":621.76,"body":"if I if somebody that I would be"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":621.76,"endTime":625.21,"body":"wanting to be in a relationship"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":621.76,"endTime":625.21,"body":"with would think this is great"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":625.21,"endTime":628.84,"body":"and amazing and wonderful and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":625.21,"endTime":628.84,"body":"fun, because otherwise they're"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":628.84,"endTime":634.24,"body":"probably not a good partner"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":628.84,"endTime":634.24,"body":"match for me.\" So that was a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":634.24,"endTime":638.2,"body":"vague answer, then now I am in a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":634.24,"endTime":638.2,"body":"relationship have been for about"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":638.32,"endTime":643.99,"body":"six years. And he lives in like"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":638.32,"endTime":643.99,"body":"a floating home, like a river"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":644.02,"endTime":650.05,"body":"house. And so it worked out that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":644.02,"endTime":650.05,"body":"way. So he's got a unique home,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":650.05,"endTime":653.62,"body":"I have a unique home and we get"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":650.05,"endTime":653.62,"body":"to, we get to enjoy living part"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":653.62,"endTime":655.63,"body":"time at both houses. Well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":655.63,"endTime":656.65,"body":"Well, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":655.63,"endTime":656.65,"body":"have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":656.65,"endTime":657.85,"body":"it it is too"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":656.65,"endTime":657.85,"body":"small for"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":658.66,"endTime":660.31,"body":"it's too small"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":658.66,"endTime":660.31,"body":"for the two of you. I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":660.31,"endTime":662.92,"body":"have to invite him to be a guest"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":660.31,"endTime":662.92,"body":"on the show to talk about his"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":662.95,"endTime":663.79,"body":"his river home."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":664.48,"endTime":666.34,"body":"Oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":664.48,"endTime":666.34,"body":"absolutely. He would love to."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":666.61,"endTime":669.37,"body":"Yeah, it is too small for two of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":666.61,"endTime":669.37,"body":"us. Although during the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":669.37,"endTime":671.74,"body":"pandemic, we have both been"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":669.37,"endTime":671.74,"body":"living in the tiny house."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":671.77,"endTime":676.06,"body":"84-square feet, two adult people"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":671.77,"endTime":676.06,"body":"in their 40s. It's been"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":676.06,"endTime":676.63,"body":"interesting."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":677.46,"endTime":680.28,"body":"Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":677.46,"endTime":680.28,"body":"definitely want to get to that,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":680.28,"endTime":684.03,"body":"because like, the tiny house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":680.28,"endTime":684.03,"body":"that you built, compared to the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":684.03,"endTime":688.23,"body":"tiny houses that are being built"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":684.03,"endTime":688.23,"body":"now are like, two different"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":688.41,"endTime":689.01,"body":"animals."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":689.55,"endTime":690.39,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":690.6,"endTime":695.94,"body":"It's like"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":690.6,"endTime":695.94,"body":"Yorkshire Terrier versus St."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":695.94,"endTime":696.48,"body":"Bernard."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":696.93,"endTime":698.19,"body":"Absolutely, yes."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":700.35,"endTime":703.32,"body":"But you've been"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":700.35,"endTime":703.32,"body":"living tiny for 11 years. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":704.88,"endTime":710.67,"body":"people tend to figure out the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":704.88,"endTime":710.67,"body":"like kinks of tiny living. You"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":710.67,"endTime":714.75,"body":"know, for me, it took like one"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":710.67,"endTime":714.75,"body":"or two winters. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":714.78,"endTime":717.9,"body":"I'm in Vermont. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":714.78,"endTime":717.9,"body":"it's very cold here. So that,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":717.93,"endTime":720.93,"body":"that puts a lot of stress on the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":717.93,"endTime":720.93,"body":"systems of the house, you figure"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":720.93,"endTime":724.68,"body":"out like, hey, my plumbing"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":720.93,"endTime":724.68,"body":"freezes in this spot, or like,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":724.98,"endTime":727.86,"body":"oh, when I run out of I'm going"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":724.98,"endTime":727.86,"body":"to run out of propane. When this"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":727.86,"endTime":732.21,"body":"happens. I'm curious, what are"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":727.86,"endTime":732.21,"body":"some things that you've learned"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":732.27,"endTime":735.06,"body":"about tiny living over those 11"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":732.27,"endTime":735.06,"body":"years?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":736.5,"endTime":740.07,"body":"Yeah, we just"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":736.5,"endTime":740.07,"body":"had a winter storm here in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":740.13,"endTime":744.27,"body":"Oregon last week. Yep. Which is"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":740.13,"endTime":744.27,"body":"quite rare, we don't usually get"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":744.27,"endTime":746.67,"body":"that kind of weather, we had"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":744.27,"endTime":746.67,"body":"about eight inches of snow and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":746.85,"endTime":752.37,"body":"ice and freezing temperatures"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":746.85,"endTime":752.37,"body":"for four days or so. And most of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":752.37,"endTime":755.4,"body":"us lost electricity, they lost"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":752.37,"endTime":755.4,"body":"power, because our power grid is"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":755.4,"endTime":759.45,"body":"not used to handling that amount"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":755.4,"endTime":759.45,"body":"of cold and snow and ice. So"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":760.26,"endTime":763.11,"body":"last week was an excellent test"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":760.26,"endTime":763.11,"body":"of all of the things that I had"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":763.11,"endTime":767.49,"body":"learned over 11 years and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":763.11,"endTime":767.49,"body":"whether I was prepared to handle"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":767.49,"endTime":774.57,"body":"that. I have so so when I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":767.49,"endTime":774.57,"body":"started living in my tiny house,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":774.57,"endTime":776.82,"body":"there were a number of people"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":774.57,"endTime":776.82,"body":"who were still including Dee"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":776.82,"endTime":779.97,"body":"Williams, who still didn't,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":776.82,"endTime":779.97,"body":"we're choosing not to have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":780.69,"endTime":784.17,"body":"running water or hot water"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":780.69,"endTime":784.17,"body":"installed in their house. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":784.17,"endTime":788.04,"body":"they would find other solutions"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":784.17,"endTime":788.04,"body":"for water. And I didn't, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":788.04,"endTime":792.3,"body":"didn't choose that. So I do have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":788.04,"endTime":792.3,"body":"an on demand hot water heater"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":792.54,"endTime":799.2,"body":"that is propane driven and, and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":792.54,"endTime":799.2,"body":"running water. So in the very"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":799.2,"endTime":802.02,"body":"early days of living in my tiny"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":799.2,"endTime":802.02,"body":"house, one of the things I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":802.02,"endTime":805.92,"body":"learned was when my, the garden"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":802.02,"endTime":805.92,"body":"hose that supplies water to my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":805.92,"endTime":808.92,"body":"house when under what conditions"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":805.92,"endTime":808.92,"body":"that will freeze. And that's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":808.92,"endTime":811.92,"body":"usually in my experience, the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":808.92,"endTime":811.92,"body":"first thing that goes out for me"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":811.92,"endTime":812.52,"body":"is water."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":813.33,"endTime":813.75,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":814.29,"endTime":816.78,"body":"and I have about"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":814.29,"endTime":816.78,"body":"100 foot garden hose. And I have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":816.78,"endTime":820.8,"body":"most places I've parked my house"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":816.78,"endTime":820.8,"body":"except for one, a very long"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":820.8,"endTime":823.65,"body":"garden hose. So it could freeze"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":820.8,"endTime":823.65,"body":"anywhere along that 100 feet."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":824.07,"endTime":829.05,"body":"And I have no water. So I always"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":824.07,"endTime":829.05,"body":"keep a store of water available."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":829.11,"endTime":832.59,"body":"Because you know, you never know"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":829.11,"endTime":832.59,"body":"when that could happen. And that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":832.59,"endTime":837.99,"body":"usually happens first. That part"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":832.59,"endTime":837.99,"body":"I'm usually pretty well prepared"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":837.99,"endTime":842.31,"body":"for this last time I also lost"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":837.99,"endTime":842.31,"body":"propane, which doesn't always"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":842.31,"endTime":846.12,"body":"happen that only happens under"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":842.31,"endTime":846.12,"body":"certain circumstances. And I've"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":846.21,"endTime":848.88,"body":"taken to doing things like"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":846.21,"endTime":848.88,"body":"wrapping a towel around the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":848.88,"endTime":852.81,"body":"propane tank or creating a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":848.88,"endTime":852.81,"body":"little cover for it so that no"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":852.81,"endTime":855.69,"body":"ice and snow if there's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":852.81,"endTime":855.69,"body":"precipitation gets onto the tank"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":855.69,"endTime":857.94,"body":"and then freezes there and then"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":855.69,"endTime":857.94,"body":"makes it longer that I don't"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":857.94,"endTime":863.19,"body":"have propane, those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":857.94,"endTime":863.19,"body":"things. And so it's just sort of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":863.19,"endTime":868.35,"body":"getting to know your house, I'd"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":863.19,"endTime":868.35,"body":"say and being prepared for all"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":868.35,"endTime":871.35,"body":"of the different outcomes. I was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":868.35,"endTime":871.35,"body":"prepared for no water I was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":871.35,"endTime":874.17,"body":"prepared for no propane. What I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":871.35,"endTime":874.17,"body":"wasn't prepared for last week"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":874.17,"endTime":879.0,"body":"was no electricity. So I just"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":874.17,"endTime":879.0,"body":"have different backup systems."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":879.15,"endTime":886.26,"body":"So I have a gas stove, right so"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":879.15,"endTime":886.26,"body":"to get hot water. I thought well"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":886.26,"endTime":889.29,"body":"I have like I took home an"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":886.26,"endTime":889.29,"body":"electric kettle that I borrowed"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":889.29,"endTime":892.11,"body":"from work. So I had an electric"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":889.29,"endTime":892.11,"body":"kettle at home and I had a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":892.11,"endTime":894.57,"body":"toaster oven and I have an"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":892.11,"endTime":894.57,"body":"Instapot so I thought okay, well"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":894.57,"endTime":897.45,"body":"if I can't cook, and it can't"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":894.57,"endTime":897.45,"body":"generate hot water Otherwise,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":897.48,"endTime":902.31,"body":"this is how I do it. And then"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":897.48,"endTime":902.31,"body":"when I lost electricity I had to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":902.31,"endTime":906.66,"body":"adapt yet again. And thankfully,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":902.31,"endTime":906.66,"body":"right shortly after I lost"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":906.66,"endTime":909.54,"body":"electricity, my propane came"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":906.66,"endTime":909.54,"body":"back online. So I was able to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":909.54,"endTime":914.01,"body":"switch to cooking on my stove"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":909.54,"endTime":914.01,"body":"using a match to light my stove."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":915.87,"endTime":918.78,"body":"But had no electricity and still"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":915.87,"endTime":918.78,"body":"no running water, but I had"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":918.78,"endTime":924.69,"body":"stores of water. So it sort of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":918.78,"endTime":924.69,"body":"always been this multiple levels"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":924.69,"endTime":929.61,"body":"of systems of backup. So that no"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":924.69,"endTime":929.61,"body":"matter which thing, and in this"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":929.61,"endTime":932.58,"body":"case last week, it wasn't just"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":929.61,"endTime":932.58,"body":"because I lived in a tiny house,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":932.58,"endTime":936.24,"body":"literally everybody was having"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":932.58,"endTime":936.24,"body":"these issues, to varying"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":936.24,"endTime":939.96,"body":"degrees. So I actually feel like"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":936.24,"endTime":939.96,"body":"I was more prepared than most"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":939.99,"endTime":944.07,"body":"because because I know that my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":939.99,"endTime":944.07,"body":"house is especially vulnerable"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":944.07,"endTime":949.32,"body":"to the elements in those ways. I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":944.07,"endTime":949.32,"body":"often want and I live in a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":949.32,"endTime":952.56,"body":"pretty temperate environment"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":949.32,"endTime":952.56,"body":"where you know, maybe this kind"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":952.56,"endTime":957.3,"body":"of thing happens once every four"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":952.56,"endTime":957.3,"body":"or five years. I often wonder"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":957.3,"endTime":960.15,"body":"what it's like for folks who"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":957.3,"endTime":960.15,"body":"live in Vermont, or really cold"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":960.15,"endTime":964.77,"body":"places in in tiny houses, and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":960.15,"endTime":964.77,"body":"have to have all of those backup"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":964.77,"endTime":965.82,"body":"systems in place."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":967.59,"endTime":970.41,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":967.59,"endTime":970.41,"body":"guess I'll just answer your"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":970.41,"endTime":971.46,"body":"question right now,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":971.49,"endTime":972.18,"body":"Please. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":974.01,"endTime":977.55,"body":"Hopefully, the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":974.01,"endTime":977.55,"body":"house has been designed with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":977.73,"endTime":982.53,"body":"that in mind, of course. You"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":977.73,"endTime":982.53,"body":"know, some things that I figured"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":982.53,"endTime":988.59,"body":"out was that I just can't use"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":982.53,"endTime":988.59,"body":"those little propane tanks, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":988.59,"endTime":993.15,"body":"know, the grill size tanks, just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":988.59,"endTime":993.15,"body":"because I would run through them"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":993.15,"endTime":999.48,"body":"so quickly. So figuring out"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":993.15,"endTime":999.48,"body":"finding a company that would be"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":999.48,"endTime":1003.68,"body":"willing to deliver propane and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":999.48,"endTime":1003.68,"body":"have slightly larger tanks was"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1003.71,"endTime":1009.56,"body":"was something Luckily, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1003.71,"endTime":1009.56,"body":"I knew that it was going to be"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1009.56,"endTime":1013.4,"body":"cold. So all of my plumbing is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1009.56,"endTime":1013.4,"body":"inside of the walls, rather than"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1013.43,"endTime":1016.1,"body":"Well, it's not within the walls,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1013.43,"endTime":1016.1,"body":"it's on the inside of the wall."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1016.1,"endTime":1020.21,"body":"So I've never had my interior"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1016.1,"endTime":1020.21,"body":"plumbing freeze, except when the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1020.21,"endTime":1024.62,"body":"house has run out of propane and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1020.21,"endTime":1024.62,"body":"frozen. So any any freeze ups"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1024.62,"endTime":1031.61,"body":"have been more user error, then"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1024.62,"endTime":1031.61,"body":"then system failure. But it's -"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1032.9,"endTime":1036.8,"body":"living tiny has its its"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1032.9,"endTime":1036.8,"body":"challenges. But it also has"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1036.8,"endTime":1041.3,"body":"some, you know, major upsides"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1036.8,"endTime":1041.3,"body":"and I'm curious, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1041.3,"endTime":1044.81,"body":"probably hard to ask you like,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1041.3,"endTime":1044.81,"body":"what are all the upsides, but,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1045.56,"endTime":1049.67,"body":"you know, do you see like a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1045.56,"endTime":1049.67,"body":"straight line between your"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1049.67,"endTime":1054.2,"body":"choice to live tiny, and then"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1049.67,"endTime":1054.2,"body":"your choice to kind of leave the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1055.22,"endTime":1058.28,"body":"education establishment and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1055.22,"endTime":1058.28,"body":"start your own school?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1059.17,"endTime":1061.45,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1059.17,"endTime":1061.45,"body":"absolutely. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1061.45,"endTime":1065.86,"body":"things you just reminded me of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1061.45,"endTime":1065.86,"body":"is that I have a electric space"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1065.86,"endTime":1069.88,"body":"heater, which I typically use"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1065.86,"endTime":1069.88,"body":"for heat. And that helps, but I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1069.88,"endTime":1073.99,"body":"also have a propane heater. So"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1069.88,"endTime":1073.99,"body":"again, another dual backup"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1073.99,"endTime":1076.45,"body":"system, and I have a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1073.99,"endTime":1076.45,"body":"dehumidifier that generates just"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1076.45,"endTime":1079.12,"body":"enough heat to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1076.45,"endTime":1079.12,"body":"like if I put it in the bathroom"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1079.12,"endTime":1081.97,"body":"and close the door, that the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1079.12,"endTime":1081.97,"body":"bathroom plumbing will never"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1081.97,"endTime":1086.2,"body":"freeze. I have these little, you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1081.97,"endTime":1086.2,"body":"know, little tricks that I've"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1086.2,"endTime":1090.52,"body":"learned over the years. That I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1086.2,"endTime":1090.52,"body":"guess I now just take for"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1090.52,"endTime":1092.95,"body":"granted, because until you just"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1090.52,"endTime":1092.95,"body":"mentioned that I didn't even"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1092.95,"endTime":1093.37,"body":"think of it."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1093.97,"endTime":1094.33,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1096.31,"endTime":1099.58,"body":"Yeah, so, gosh,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1096.31,"endTime":1099.58,"body":"there are there are so many"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1099.61,"endTime":1104.92,"body":"upsides to me, living tiny. The,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1099.61,"endTime":1104.92,"body":"for me, the main reason I did it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1104.92,"endTime":1109.45,"body":"initially was the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1104.92,"endTime":1109.45,"body":"simplification. I wanted to have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1109.72,"endTime":1116.38,"body":"my own life be as simple as"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1109.72,"endTime":1116.38,"body":"possible, so that I could spend"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1116.38,"endTime":1120.76,"body":"most of my time and energy and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1116.38,"endTime":1120.76,"body":"resources of all sorts on doing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1120.76,"endTime":1124.96,"body":"my life's work. 11 years ago, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1120.76,"endTime":1124.96,"body":"did not know what my life's work"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1124.96,"endTime":1129.67,"body":"was going to be. But I was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1124.96,"endTime":1129.67,"body":"already starting to feel a pull"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1129.67,"endTime":1134.68,"body":"towards figuring out what that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1129.67,"endTime":1134.68,"body":"is and then making a step"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1134.68,"endTime":1138.67,"body":"towards doing it. And I knew"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1134.68,"endTime":1138.67,"body":"that was coming kind of soon. I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1138.67,"endTime":1143.11,"body":"didn't know what I meant by kind"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1138.67,"endTime":1143.11,"body":"of soon, 11 years ago, but it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1143.11,"endTime":1148.45,"body":"turned out to be about four"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1143.11,"endTime":1148.45,"body":"years, five years after I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1148.45,"endTime":1153.37,"body":"started living in a tiny house"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1148.45,"endTime":1153.37,"body":"that I left academia that I left"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1153.37,"endTime":1155.41,"body":"being a professor because it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1153.37,"endTime":1155.41,"body":"didn't technically leave"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1155.41,"endTime":1158.26,"body":"academia because I am now the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1155.41,"endTime":1158.26,"body":"president of a college. So"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1158.26,"endTime":1161.35,"body":"technically, I'm still in the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1158.26,"endTime":1161.35,"body":"same industry. But I definitely"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1161.35,"endTime":1166.27,"body":"left the traditional path that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1161.35,"endTime":1166.27,"body":"everybody is on. And I would not"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1166.27,"endTime":1173.59,"body":"have been able to do that. Were"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1166.27,"endTime":1173.59,"body":"it not for living? Tiny. Some of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1173.59,"endTime":1178.78,"body":"that is practical, like the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1173.59,"endTime":1178.78,"body":"cost. I mean, I've during the 11"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1178.78,"endTime":1181.69,"body":"years I've lived in Portland,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1178.78,"endTime":1181.69,"body":"the cost of living here has gone"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1181.69,"endTime":1187.99,"body":"up exponentially, especially in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1181.69,"endTime":1187.99,"body":"the past six years. And my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1188.02,"endTime":1191.59,"body":"living expenses have not been"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1188.02,"endTime":1191.59,"body":"insulated from all of that. So"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1191.59,"endTime":1197.71,"body":"right now I pay $450 a month to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1191.59,"endTime":1197.71,"body":"park my tiny house in a friend's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1197.71,"endTime":1202.15,"body":"backyard and I and I moved my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1197.71,"endTime":1202.15,"body":"tiny house to be within walking"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1202.15,"endTime":1204.58,"body":"distance of Wayfinding, the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1202.15,"endTime":1204.58,"body":"college that I started once I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1204.58,"endTime":1208.48,"body":"knew where the college would be."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1204.58,"endTime":1208.48,"body":"So I have very low living"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1208.48,"endTime":1213.31,"body":"expenses, my rent has basically"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1208.48,"endTime":1213.31,"body":"been essentially the same for 11"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1213.31,"endTime":1217.93,"body":"years. And I don't pay"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1213.31,"endTime":1217.93,"body":"utilities. So even when the cost"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1217.93,"endTime":1223.15,"body":"of utilities go up, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1217.93,"endTime":1223.15,"body":"insulated from that. And so some"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1223.15,"endTime":1227.32,"body":"of it's a practical, I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1223.15,"endTime":1227.32,"body":"be able to do this, where it not"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1227.32,"endTime":1231.34,"body":"for the living tiny, and some of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1227.32,"endTime":1231.34,"body":"it is more of the emotional and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1231.34,"endTime":1235.24,"body":"spiritual and energetic, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1231.34,"endTime":1235.24,"body":"wouldn't be able to do this,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1235.24,"endTime":1241.18,"body":"because starting a college from"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1235.24,"endTime":1241.18,"body":"scratch, and anything big that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1241.18,"endTime":1243.61,"body":"people are doing, that's their"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1241.18,"endTime":1243.61,"body":"life's work is going to take"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1243.97,"endTime":1247.27,"body":"everything that they have to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1243.97,"endTime":1247.27,"body":"give. And the more they can"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1247.27,"endTime":1251.05,"body":"conserve that in other areas of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1247.27,"endTime":1251.05,"body":"their life, the better able they"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1251.05,"endTime":1253.72,"body":"are going to be to dedicate"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1251.05,"endTime":1253.72,"body":"themselves to doing that work."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1254.62,"endTime":1260.5,"body":"And that's definitely been true"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1254.62,"endTime":1260.5,"body":"for me. And so because I have a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1260.5,"endTime":1264.07,"body":"simple home life, and it's kind"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1260.5,"endTime":1264.07,"body":"of my sanctuary space, and it's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1264.07,"endTime":1268.18,"body":"small, so I can come to work, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1264.07,"endTime":1268.18,"body":"can give everything I've got, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1268.18,"endTime":1271.6,"body":"can work very hard, I can expend"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1268.18,"endTime":1271.6,"body":"all my energy. And then I can"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1271.6,"endTime":1275.83,"body":"retreat to my very tiny cozy"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1271.6,"endTime":1275.83,"body":"simple home and recover and re"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1275.83,"endTime":1278.92,"body":"energize and then come back the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1275.83,"endTime":1278.92,"body":"next day and do it all again."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1279.97,"endTime":1280.57,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1282.58,"endTime":1285.61,"body":"And I think that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1282.58,"endTime":1285.61,"body":"one thing I'm starting to be"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1285.61,"endTime":1290.5,"body":"more aware of now is I think, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1285.61,"endTime":1290.5,"body":"have not historically I've not"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1290.5,"endTime":1295.63,"body":"been strongly connected to my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1290.5,"endTime":1295.63,"body":"past and my, you know, ancestry"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1295.63,"endTime":1298.42,"body":"and family history and that kind"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1295.63,"endTime":1298.42,"body":"of thing. And I'm starting to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1298.42,"endTime":1303.85,"body":"think about that a little bit"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1298.42,"endTime":1303.85,"body":"more. And so one of the upsides"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1303.85,"endTime":1308.5,"body":"I'm just starting to tap into is"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1303.85,"endTime":1308.5,"body":"that every single item in my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1308.5,"endTime":1313.72,"body":"house has meaning. And most of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1308.5,"endTime":1313.72,"body":"the items either came from"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1313.75,"endTime":1317.14,"body":"things I inherited, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1313.75,"endTime":1317.14,"body":"have like my grandmother's china"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1317.14,"endTime":1322.15,"body":"is my everyday china. My My"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1317.14,"endTime":1322.15,"body":"house is physically built out of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1323.47,"endTime":1327.58,"body":"an old oak dining room table"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1323.47,"endTime":1327.58,"body":"that my parents bought, when,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1327.88,"endTime":1329.98,"body":"before I was born, that was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1327.88,"endTime":1329.98,"body":"their very first piece of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1329.98,"endTime":1333.67,"body":"furniture they ever owned, and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1329.98,"endTime":1333.67,"body":"it got chopped up and made into"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1333.67,"endTime":1335.71,"body":"my house, my house is literally"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1333.67,"endTime":1335.71,"body":"made out of that."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1337.1,"endTime":1340.37,"body":"So I have a lot of that kind of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1337.1,"endTime":1340.37,"body":"family history stuff that I'm"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1340.37,"endTime":1345.14,"body":"surrounded by, in some way"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1340.37,"endTime":1345.14,"body":"surrounded by my ancestors every"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1345.14,"endTime":1349.19,"body":"day in my home. And then the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1345.14,"endTime":1349.19,"body":"other stuff comes from my my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1349.19,"endTime":1352.64,"body":"travels and things that I like"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1349.19,"endTime":1352.64,"body":"to collect along as part of my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1352.64,"endTime":1359.33,"body":"life story. So it's starting to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1352.64,"endTime":1359.33,"body":"realize the joy of that more"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1359.33,"endTime":1362.84,"body":"now. And I think I kind of took"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1359.33,"endTime":1362.84,"body":"it for granted a little bit"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1362.84,"endTime":1363.35,"body":"before."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1364.67,"endTime":1367.19,"body":"Yeah, you you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1364.67,"endTime":1367.19,"body":"spoke to that really nicely. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1367.22,"endTime":1371.66,"body":"in the medium article that you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1367.22,"endTime":1371.66,"body":"wrote, I'd actually written down"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1371.66,"endTime":1374.12,"body":"that as a quote, one of the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1371.66,"endTime":1374.12,"body":"gifts the tiny home has given me"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1374.12,"endTime":1377.57,"body":"is that most of the things I own"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1374.12,"endTime":1377.57,"body":"are either repurposed mementos"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1377.57,"endTime":1380.54,"body":"from my life or repurposed"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1377.57,"endTime":1380.54,"body":"materials from someone else's."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1381.02,"endTime":1384.86,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1381.02,"endTime":1384.86,"body":"that's been a, just, that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1384.86,"endTime":1389.36,"body":"article just came out recently."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1384.86,"endTime":1389.36,"body":"And so it's been, that's been"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1389.36,"endTime":1392.51,"body":"one of my more recent"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1389.36,"endTime":1392.51,"body":"realizations about this choosing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1392.51,"endTime":1395.93,"body":"this life. And to your point"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1392.51,"endTime":1395.93,"body":"before, when people do tiny"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1395.93,"endTime":1400.94,"body":"house living now. It's quite"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1395.93,"endTime":1400.94,"body":"different than, you know, maybe"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1400.94,"endTime":1402.02,"body":"what I'm doing."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1402.38,"endTime":1402.74,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1402.98,"endTime":1404.81,"body":"But I think"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1402.98,"endTime":1404.81,"body":"there's still that opportunity,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1404.81,"endTime":1408.5,"body":"even if the house is much, much"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1404.81,"endTime":1408.5,"body":"larger, or quite more modern or"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1408.5,"endTime":1411.59,"body":"whatever, there's still that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1408.5,"endTime":1411.59,"body":"opportunity of making really"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1411.59,"endTime":1414.86,"body":"intentional choices about what"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1411.59,"endTime":1414.86,"body":"you have surrounding you, all"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1414.86,"endTime":1415.55,"body":"day, every day."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1415.93,"endTime":1422.44,"body":"Right. Right. I'm"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1415.93,"endTime":1422.44,"body":"curious about your kind of take"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1422.44,"endTime":1432.07,"body":"or philosophy on downsizing? And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1422.44,"endTime":1432.07,"body":"the I'm curious if it has, has"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1432.07,"endTime":1435.07,"body":"it had to continue as a process"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1432.07,"endTime":1435.07,"body":"for you, you know, because you,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1435.25,"endTime":1439.66,"body":"you do this initial downsizing"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1435.25,"endTime":1439.66,"body":"to get into the tiny house, but"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1439.66,"endTime":1445.54,"body":"then, you know, the culture the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1439.66,"endTime":1445.54,"body":"media never stops bombarding you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1445.54,"endTime":1450.25,"body":"with the message like to consume"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1445.54,"endTime":1450.25,"body":"and like to have this thing or"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1450.25,"endTime":1456.04,"body":"that thing. How do you how do"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1450.25,"endTime":1456.04,"body":"you think about that? How do you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1456.58,"endTime":1462.01,"body":"how do you get by for 11 years"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1456.58,"endTime":1462.01,"body":"and like stay in an 84-square"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1462.01,"endTime":1465.04,"body":"foot tiny house? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1465.24,"endTime":1467.64,"body":"I mean, I have a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1465.24,"endTime":1467.64,"body":"couple of cheap Dino where like,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1467.64,"endTime":1471.72,"body":"if I get one new thing, I have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1467.64,"endTime":1471.72,"body":"to get rid of a thing. You know,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1471.72,"endTime":1475.68,"body":"that kind of thing? Yeah. I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1471.72,"endTime":1475.68,"body":"about twice a year I send my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1475.68,"endTime":1480.18,"body":"sister and my niece a care"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1475.68,"endTime":1480.18,"body":"package of all of the random"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1480.18,"endTime":1483.81,"body":"things that I'm prepared to now"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1480.18,"endTime":1483.81,"body":"get rid of and send over to her"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1483.81,"endTime":1489.15,"body":"to enjoy. Most of the time."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1483.81,"endTime":1489.15,"body":"That's, that's clothes, or books"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1489.15,"endTime":1491.85,"body":"or trinket type of things that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1489.15,"endTime":1491.85,"body":"I've accumulated over the past"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1491.85,"endTime":1499.74,"body":"year. So I use tricks like that."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1491.85,"endTime":1499.74,"body":"But yeah, because my space"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1499.74,"endTime":1504.42,"body":"hasn't expanded in 11 years, and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1499.74,"endTime":1504.42,"body":"yet my my life in many ways has."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1504.69,"endTime":1512.79,"body":"And so I do have an office at"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1504.69,"endTime":1512.79,"body":"work. So sometimes I can choose."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1512.79,"endTime":1516.78,"body":"So for example, about, oh gosh,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1512.79,"endTime":1516.78,"body":"seven or eight years ago, maybe"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1516.78,"endTime":1521.55,"body":"now, I inherited a collection of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1516.78,"endTime":1521.55,"body":"paintings from my father, that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1522.06,"endTime":1525.57,"body":"my family, my parents were in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1522.06,"endTime":1525.57,"body":"the process of moving, and he"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1525.57,"endTime":1529.8,"body":"was finding new homes for these"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1525.57,"endTime":1529.8,"body":"paintings. And I was able to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1529.8,"endTime":1533.28,"body":"take four or five of them"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1529.8,"endTime":1533.28,"body":"because I have an office, and I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1533.28,"endTime":1536.1,"body":"can put them on display and hang"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1533.28,"endTime":1536.1,"body":"them in my office at work. And I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1536.1,"endTime":1539.55,"body":"have the smallest one is, is"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1536.1,"endTime":1539.55,"body":"hanging in my tiny house. But"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1539.55,"endTime":1542.73,"body":"all the rest of them are at my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1539.55,"endTime":1542.73,"body":"office. So I have a couple of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1542.94,"endTime":1551.16,"body":"opportunities like that. But by"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1542.94,"endTime":1551.16,"body":"and large, I've learned to tune"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1551.19,"endTime":1559.65,"body":"out the society's expectations"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1551.19,"endTime":1559.65,"body":"of consumerism, mostly. That"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1559.65,"endTime":1564.21,"body":"took a bit of practice, but I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1559.65,"endTime":1564.21,"body":"actually much much prefer that."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1565.23,"endTime":1568.65,"body":"And then some of it was out of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1565.23,"endTime":1568.65,"body":"necessity, because when I, about"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1568.65,"endTime":1572.76,"body":"six years ago, when I left my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1568.65,"endTime":1572.76,"body":"teaching career, and started my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1572.76,"endTime":1579.09,"body":"own college, I took a large pay"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1572.76,"endTime":1579.09,"body":"cut, initially 100% pay cut, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1579.09,"endTime":1582.66,"body":"went from making what I was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1579.09,"endTime":1582.66,"body":"making to making nothing. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1582.66,"endTime":1586.26,"body":"then it and now I'm now I do"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1582.66,"endTime":1586.26,"body":"have a salary, but it's about"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1586.26,"endTime":1589.65,"body":"half of what it was before. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1586.26,"endTime":1589.65,"body":"so some of it's been out of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1589.65,"endTime":1592.95,"body":"necessity of you know, and I've"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1589.65,"endTime":1592.95,"body":"used my years of practice of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1592.95,"endTime":1597.93,"body":"tuning out that consumerism, to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1592.95,"endTime":1597.93,"body":"make the budget, lifestyle"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1597.93,"endTime":1604.44,"body":"situation work. And at this"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1597.93,"endTime":1604.44,"body":"point, I actually get some, some"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1604.44,"endTime":1609.12,"body":"pride out of being able to do"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1604.44,"endTime":1609.12,"body":"that, which helps. For me the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1609.12,"endTime":1614.4,"body":"most, the most challenging thing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1609.12,"endTime":1614.4,"body":"of recent times is that as I've"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1614.4,"endTime":1617.52,"body":"been stepping more and more into"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1614.4,"endTime":1617.52,"body":"like a spokesperson kind of a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1617.52,"endTime":1621.93,"body":"role and making more public"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1617.52,"endTime":1621.93,"body":"appearances this year, not so"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1621.93,"endTime":1624.18,"body":"hard during the pandemic,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1621.93,"endTime":1624.18,"body":"because I can just do it all via"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1624.18,"endTime":1627.75,"body":"Zoom or whatever. But in the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1624.18,"endTime":1627.75,"body":"couple years before this, when I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1627.75,"endTime":1630.24,"body":"would have to travel around or"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1627.75,"endTime":1630.24,"body":"go to conferences or whatever,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1630.45,"endTime":1633.81,"body":"needing a wardrobe needing a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1630.45,"endTime":1633.81,"body":"diverse wardrobe that can cover"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1633.84,"endTime":1636.78,"body":"a lot of different things is not"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1633.84,"endTime":1636.78,"body":"very practical in the tiny"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1636.78,"endTime":1637.32,"body":"house."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1637.95,"endTime":1638.31,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1638.31,"endTime":1642.54,"body":"So, I have had"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1638.31,"endTime":1642.54,"body":"to find creative ways around"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1642.54,"endTime":1646.14,"body":"that whether it's borrowing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1642.54,"endTime":1646.14,"body":"things from people renting"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1646.17,"endTime":1651.6,"body":"things for special events,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1646.17,"endTime":1651.6,"body":"purchasing a thing that's pretty"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1651.6,"endTime":1653.73,"body":"inexpensive, but and then"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1651.6,"endTime":1653.73,"body":"getting rid of another thing,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1653.73,"endTime":1659.61,"body":"you know, finding ways, because"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1653.73,"endTime":1659.61,"body":"my closet is about two feet"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1659.61,"endTime":1663.39,"body":"wide. And it has to fit"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1659.61,"endTime":1663.39,"body":"everything. I mean, I it has to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1663.39,"endTime":1666.57,"body":"fit all of my all of my clothing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1663.39,"endTime":1666.57,"body":"for all of the seasons and all"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1666.57,"endTime":1670.2,"body":"of the types of events. And so"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1666.57,"endTime":1670.2,"body":"I've That's for me been the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1670.2,"endTime":1673.41,"body":"harder part is when the external"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1670.2,"endTime":1673.41,"body":"expectation is that I appear in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1673.41,"endTime":1676.53,"body":"a certain manner, because I'm"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1673.41,"endTime":1676.53,"body":"now president of a college and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1676.53,"endTime":1681.54,"body":"being a spokesperson, not having"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1676.53,"endTime":1681.54,"body":"the and not really wanting the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1681.54,"endTime":1682.95,"body":"wardrobe to support that."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1683.33,"endTime":1686.21,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1683.33,"endTime":1686.21,"body":"It's the kind of thing that you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1686.6,"endTime":1689.42,"body":"only need to use a couple of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1686.6,"endTime":1689.42,"body":"times a year, but then when you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1689.42,"endTime":1690.29,"body":"need it, you need it."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1690.6,"endTime":1693.6,"body":"Exactly,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1690.6,"endTime":1693.6,"body":"exactly. And now, during this"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1693.6,"endTime":1698.94,"body":"past year, having my partner"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1693.6,"endTime":1698.94,"body":"being in the house with me. You"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1698.94,"endTime":1701.91,"body":"know, it's meant giving taking"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1698.94,"endTime":1701.91,"body":"half of my drawers where I kept"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1701.91,"endTime":1705.09,"body":"my clothes, and giving them to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1701.91,"endTime":1705.09,"body":"him so that he had a place to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1705.09,"endTime":1708.24,"body":"keep his. And so that that was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1705.09,"endTime":1708.24,"body":"an interesting experiment. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1708.24,"endTime":1711.6,"body":"it worked, I was able"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1708.24,"endTime":1711.6,"body":"successfully to take my clothes"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1711.6,"endTime":1715.74,"body":"and push them down into half"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1711.6,"endTime":1715.74,"body":"this physical space and still"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1715.92,"endTime":1719.49,"body":"have it work. So that's been so"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1715.92,"endTime":1719.49,"body":"I've learned throughout this"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1719.49,"endTime":1722.31,"body":"past year that I actually do"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1719.49,"endTime":1722.31,"body":"have more space, more available"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1722.31,"endTime":1724.89,"body":"space in the house for storage"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1722.31,"endTime":1724.89,"body":"than I would have thought I did."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1726.06,"endTime":1730.98,"body":"Yeah. Interesting"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1726.06,"endTime":1730.98,"body":"to discover new new ways of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1730.98,"endTime":1736.2,"body":"storing things and opening up"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1730.98,"endTime":1736.2,"body":"maybe an extra, you know, room"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1736.2,"endTime":1737.79,"body":"for an extra jacket or"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1736.2,"endTime":1737.79,"body":"something?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1738.6,"endTime":1739.5,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1740.79,"endTime":1743.01,"body":"Has there been"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1740.79,"endTime":1743.01,"body":"any point over the 11 years"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1743.01,"endTime":1747.33,"body":"where you like, considered like,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1743.01,"endTime":1747.33,"body":"Okay, I'm going to need to, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1747.33,"endTime":1751.02,"body":"know, step up mid, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1747.33,"endTime":1751.02,"body":"build a bigger, tiny house or"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1751.02,"endTime":1754.2,"body":"move in, you know, move back"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1751.02,"endTime":1754.2,"body":"into a traditional house."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1756.19,"endTime":1758.26,"body":"The only time"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1756.19,"endTime":1758.26,"body":"that's really started occurring"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1758.26,"endTime":1763.69,"body":"to me was during this past year."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1758.26,"endTime":1763.69,"body":"I think, as we've all navigated"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1763.69,"endTime":1769.9,"body":"being in this global pandemic,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1763.69,"endTime":1769.9,"body":"where we live has become even"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1769.9,"endTime":1771.64,"body":"more important, like our"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1769.9,"endTime":1771.64,"body":"physical space of where we live"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1771.64,"endTime":1774.58,"body":"has become even more important"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1771.64,"endTime":1774.58,"body":"for a variety of reasons. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1774.61,"endTime":1783.25,"body":"and I feel a lot of gratefulness"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1774.61,"endTime":1783.25,"body":"and privilege to have a safe,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1783.25,"endTime":1787.27,"body":"secure, warm, cozy space to be"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1783.25,"endTime":1787.27,"body":"during all of this time because"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1787.27,"endTime":1793.84,"body":"I know a lot of people don't."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1787.27,"endTime":1793.84,"body":"And this sudden, significant"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1793.84,"endTime":1797.05,"body":"change of going from one person"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1793.84,"endTime":1797.05,"body":"living in 84 Square Feet to two"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1797.05,"endTime":1805.93,"body":"people living in 84 square feet"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1797.05,"endTime":1805.93,"body":"has meant that I have more often"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1805.93,"endTime":1810.07,"body":"than usual thought about maybe"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1805.93,"endTime":1810.07,"body":"it's time to have a little more"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1810.07,"endTime":1815.26,"body":"space. And we've made it now"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1810.07,"endTime":1815.26,"body":"it's been next week will be a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1815.26,"endTime":1819.97,"body":"year that we've had two of us"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1815.26,"endTime":1819.97,"body":"living in the tiny house. And so"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1820.03,"endTime":1822.67,"body":"I think about that a lot less"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1820.03,"endTime":1822.67,"body":"now we have adjusted and we have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1822.67,"endTime":1825.79,"body":"adapted, and we've figured out a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1822.67,"endTime":1825.79,"body":"way that works. And we're"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1825.79,"endTime":1830.77,"body":"fortunate to have extra space to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1825.79,"endTime":1830.77,"body":"go to so for example, one or"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1830.77,"endTime":1835.06,"body":"both of us can be at Wayfinding"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1830.77,"endTime":1835.06,"body":"Academy, working from here or"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1835.06,"endTime":1840.7,"body":"having extra space here. So were"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1835.06,"endTime":1840.7,"body":"it not for that, I think we"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1840.7,"endTime":1843.52,"body":"would have had to find a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1840.7,"endTime":1843.52,"body":"different living situation for"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1843.52,"endTime":1848.08,"body":"this. For this time, during the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1843.52,"endTime":1848.08,"body":"pandemic, we also went when the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1848.47,"endTime":1851.08,"body":"when that feeling becomes a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1848.47,"endTime":1851.08,"body":"little too overwhelming for me,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1851.11,"endTime":1855.82,"body":"I will often ask around to my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1851.11,"endTime":1855.82,"body":"friends and see if any of them"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1855.82,"endTime":1858.7,"body":"have are traveling or their"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1855.82,"endTime":1858.7,"body":"house is empty or something like"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1858.7,"endTime":1863.65,"body":"that, and borrow a friend's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1858.7,"endTime":1863.65,"body":"house for a little while. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1864.34,"endTime":1867.25,"body":"that really helps to even if"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1864.34,"endTime":1867.25,"body":"it's just like a weekend of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1867.25,"endTime":1870.16,"body":"staying at someone else's house"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1867.25,"endTime":1870.16,"body":"and having a full size house."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1870.19,"endTime":1874.3,"body":"And a bathtub is the thing I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1870.19,"endTime":1874.3,"body":"missed the most. My partner he"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1874.3,"endTime":1879.25,"body":"misses having a couch. So if we"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1874.3,"endTime":1879.25,"body":"can borrow a place house for a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1879.25,"endTime":1881.89,"body":"weekend and he gets a couch and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1879.25,"endTime":1881.89,"body":"I get a bathtub, then that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1881.89,"endTime":1884.02,"body":"usually works. And we can go"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1881.89,"endTime":1884.02,"body":"back to the tiny house"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1884.02,"endTime":1886.3,"body":"afterwards and feel content"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1884.02,"endTime":1886.3,"body":"again."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1886.78,"endTime":1890.08,"body":"Awesome. Well,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1886.78,"endTime":1890.08,"body":"another thing that you you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1890.08,"endTime":1896.89,"body":"touched on in your article was"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1890.08,"endTime":1896.89,"body":"the theme of you know, I'll just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1896.89,"endTime":1899.8,"body":"read the quote, because I like"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1896.89,"endTime":1899.8,"body":"it, \"I built my tiny house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1899.83,"endTime":1902.26,"body":"thinking that it would make me"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1899.83,"endTime":1902.26,"body":"more self reliant, but it's done"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1902.26,"endTime":1905.32,"body":"the opposite. I've had to learn"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1902.26,"endTime":1905.32,"body":"to ask for help for my community"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1905.32,"endTime":1909.76,"body":"in ways I never thought I'd be"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1905.32,"endTime":1909.76,"body":"able to do.\" Can you? Can you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1909.76,"endTime":1911.23,"body":"reflect further on that?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1911.81,"endTime":1915.83,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, I've"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1911.81,"endTime":1915.83,"body":"always sort of had a little bit"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1915.83,"endTime":1921.08,"body":"of an independent streak and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1915.83,"endTime":1921.08,"body":"stubborn streak to me. And at"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1921.08,"endTime":1926.75,"body":"the time, when I chose to live"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1921.08,"endTime":1926.75,"body":"in a tiny house, I had been"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1926.75,"endTime":1929.51,"body":"moving, let's see, I was 33. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1926.75,"endTime":1929.51,"body":"I'd been moving around the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1929.51,"endTime":1932.0,"body":"country quite a lot. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1929.51,"endTime":1932.0,"body":"went from Texas, where I grew up"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1932.33,"endTime":1935.96,"body":"to California to Massachusetts,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1932.33,"endTime":1935.96,"body":"to Rhode Island to Mexico to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1935.96,"endTime":1939.35,"body":"Tacoma. And you know, so I'd"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1935.96,"endTime":1939.35,"body":"been moving around a lot. And I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1939.35,"endTime":1942.83,"body":"was assuming that this is my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1939.35,"endTime":1942.83,"body":"life now, right, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1942.83,"endTime":1945.53,"body":"always move and I'm always going"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1942.83,"endTime":1945.53,"body":"to be a bit of a nomad, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1945.53,"endTime":1950.57,"body":"always going to be constantly in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1945.53,"endTime":1950.57,"body":"that kind of a pattern. And so I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1950.57,"endTime":1953.99,"body":"wanted to be as self sufficient"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1950.57,"endTime":1953.99,"body":"and self reliant as possible."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1954.62,"endTime":1958.46,"body":"And that was part of my decision"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1954.62,"endTime":1958.46,"body":"to build a tiny house because"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1958.46,"endTime":1960.71,"body":"it's like, well, now I have a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1958.46,"endTime":1960.71,"body":"small house on wheels, I can"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1960.71,"endTime":1965.21,"body":"take it anywhere I want to go. I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1960.71,"endTime":1965.21,"body":"don't have to depend on you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1965.21,"endTime":1970.1,"body":"know, renters or landlords or"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1965.21,"endTime":1970.1,"body":"whatever to find home each new"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1970.1,"endTime":1974.51,"body":"place I go. And of course, as I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1970.1,"endTime":1974.51,"body":"mentioned, I have not left"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1974.54,"endTime":1977.75,"body":"Portland since I got the tiny"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1974.54,"endTime":1977.75,"body":"house on wheels. And what I've"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1977.75,"endTime":1982.1,"body":"learned is that I actually now"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1977.75,"endTime":1982.1,"body":"have to depend on people even"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1982.1,"endTime":1985.88,"body":"more, because from big things"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1982.1,"endTime":1985.88,"body":"like finding someone who is"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1985.88,"endTime":1990.95,"body":"willing to let me live in their"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1985.88,"endTime":1990.95,"body":"backyard, which is a big ask of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1991.1,"endTime":1994.25,"body":"other people, it benefits them"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1991.1,"endTime":1994.25,"body":"as well in a number of ways. But"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1994.25,"endTime":1998.69,"body":"that's a big ask of somebody to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1994.25,"endTime":1998.69,"body":"let me bring my home into their"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1998.81,"endTime":2002.17,"body":"yard and take part of that, that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":1998.81,"endTime":2002.17,"body":"what we typically think of in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2002.17,"endTime":2006.73,"body":"our culture as private space."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2002.17,"endTime":2006.73,"body":"And then other little things"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2006.73,"endTime":2011.05,"body":"like you know, I get my water by"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2006.73,"endTime":2011.05,"body":"connecting a hose to their main"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2011.05,"endTime":2013.78,"body":"house, I get my electricity by"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2011.05,"endTime":2013.78,"body":"plugging in a long extension"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2013.78,"endTime":2017.71,"body":"cord to their main house, we I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2013.78,"endTime":2017.71,"body":"don't have my own way of getting"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2017.71,"endTime":2023.05,"body":"internet. And so I have to use"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2017.71,"endTime":2023.05,"body":"their internet. Asking friends"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2023.05,"endTime":2025.69,"body":"to borrow their house. So I can"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2023.05,"endTime":2025.69,"body":"have a bathtub every once in a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2025.69,"endTime":2031.03,"body":"while, you know. So I've had to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2025.69,"endTime":2031.03,"body":"get more comfortable leaning on"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2031.03,"endTime":2035.53,"body":"the community that I have around"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2031.03,"endTime":2035.53,"body":"me for basic necessities like"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2035.53,"endTime":2041.53,"body":"water and electricity, but also"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2035.53,"endTime":2041.53,"body":"little luxury items like being"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2041.53,"endTime":2046.39,"body":"able to use a bathtub or an"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2041.53,"endTime":2046.39,"body":"oven. Or if I do run out of my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2046.39,"endTime":2049.63,"body":"water storage, I sometimes have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2046.39,"endTime":2049.63,"body":"to go ask my neighbor if I can"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2049.63,"endTime":2053.95,"body":"fill up my water from their"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2049.63,"endTime":2053.95,"body":"house. And last week. Usually"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2053.95,"endTime":2057.46,"body":"this doesn't happen, because"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2053.95,"endTime":2057.46,"body":"it's not this extended here in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2057.46,"endTime":2060.67,"body":"Oregon. But last week with that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2057.46,"endTime":2060.67,"body":"winter storm. After about four"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2060.67,"endTime":2063.55,"body":"days, I asked my neighbor if I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2060.67,"endTime":2063.55,"body":"could come in their house and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2063.55,"endTime":2068.32,"body":"take a shower. And they said of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2063.55,"endTime":2068.32,"body":"course. So just little things"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2068.32,"endTime":2071.98,"body":"like that. That is is like the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2068.32,"endTime":2071.98,"body":"opposite of being completely"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2071.98,"endTime":2075.82,"body":"self reliant and not needing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2071.98,"endTime":2075.82,"body":"other people. Right. But there's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2075.82,"endTime":2080.02,"body":"a lot more fulfillment in this"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2075.82,"endTime":2080.02,"body":"too. And it prepared me again,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2080.05,"endTime":2083.44,"body":"not intentionally, but as an"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2080.05,"endTime":2083.44,"body":"accidental outcome. it prepared"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2083.44,"endTime":2088.54,"body":"me for the work I'm doing now."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2083.44,"endTime":2088.54,"body":"Because Wayfinding Academy is a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2088.54,"endTime":2091.99,"body":"community college and we really"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2088.54,"endTime":2091.99,"body":"emphasize the role of community"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2091.99,"endTime":2096.1,"body":"in that, in fact, like close to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2091.99,"endTime":2096.1,"body":"half of our annual operating"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2096.1,"endTime":2100.33,"body":"budget is donations from our"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2096.1,"endTime":2100.33,"body":"community of supporters to Even"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2100.33,"endTime":2104.17,"body":"in that way we've had to get"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2100.33,"endTime":2104.17,"body":"it's been good practice for me"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2104.17,"endTime":2106.72,"body":"of what it's like to be"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2104.17,"endTime":2106.72,"body":"supported by a community doing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2106.72,"endTime":2109.12,"body":"the work that you're doing,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2106.72,"endTime":2109.12,"body":"because they believe that it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2109.12,"endTime":2109.69,"body":"matters."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2110.71,"endTime":2112.72,"body":"Yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2110.71,"endTime":2112.72,"body":"that's that's a great segue,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2112.75,"endTime":2116.71,"body":"because I do want to ask you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2112.75,"endTime":2116.71,"body":"about about Wayfinding. Academy."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2118.45,"endTime":2123.04,"body":"What maybe, I mean, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2118.45,"endTime":2123.04,"body":"that our listeners have probably"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2123.04,"endTime":2126.4,"body":"never, never heard of it. I'm"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2123.04,"endTime":2126.4,"body":"familiar because because I know"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2126.4,"endTime":2129.19,"body":"you through a conference that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2126.4,"endTime":2129.19,"body":"we've both been involved with."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2129.91,"endTime":2133.03,"body":"Right? But yeah, what's what's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2129.91,"endTime":2133.03,"body":"Wayfinding Academy and maybe"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2133.03,"endTime":2137.29,"body":"like, if tiny houses are solving"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2133.03,"endTime":2137.29,"body":"the problem that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2137.59,"endTime":2140.65,"body":"we're, we're buying houses that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2137.59,"endTime":2140.65,"body":"are, you know, more than we can"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2140.65,"endTime":2145.0,"body":"afford, and taking up more space"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2140.65,"endTime":2145.0,"body":"than we need? You know, if"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2145.0,"endTime":2147.94,"body":"that's the problem that tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2145.0,"endTime":2147.94,"body":"houses are solving, what what is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2147.94,"endTime":2151.06,"body":"the problem that Wayfinding"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2147.94,"endTime":2151.06,"body":"Academy is solving in higher"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2151.06,"endTime":2151.75,"body":"education?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2152.62,"endTime":2158.56,"body":"Yeah. I, the way"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2152.62,"endTime":2158.56,"body":"I like to think about it is that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2158.68,"endTime":2162.61,"body":"the reason Wayfinding exists is"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2158.68,"endTime":2162.61,"body":"to help more people figure out"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2162.61,"endTime":2167.68,"body":"what they want to do with their"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2162.61,"endTime":2167.68,"body":"lives and start doing it. I, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2167.68,"endTime":2171.43,"body":"taught in the traditional higher"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2167.68,"endTime":2171.43,"body":"education system for 15 years."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2171.85,"endTime":2177.07,"body":"And when I started that career,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2171.85,"endTime":2177.07,"body":"I thought that was what the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2177.07,"endTime":2179.95,"body":"purpose of higher education is,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2177.07,"endTime":2179.95,"body":"is to help people figure out"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2179.95,"endTime":2182.62,"body":"their life path and their career"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2179.95,"endTime":2182.62,"body":"and their, what they're going to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2182.62,"endTime":2185.65,"body":"do with their lives, and then"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2182.62,"endTime":2185.65,"body":"give provide all of this the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2185.65,"endTime":2188.53,"body":"skills and opportunities and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2185.65,"endTime":2188.53,"body":"internships and practice to do"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2188.53,"endTime":2191.74,"body":"that. And I very quickly"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2188.53,"endTime":2191.74,"body":"realized that that is not the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2191.74,"endTime":2194.95,"body":"case, didn't matter where I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2191.74,"endTime":2194.95,"body":"taught, that was not the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2194.95,"endTime":2199.24,"body":"approach that most colleges were"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2194.95,"endTime":2199.24,"body":"taking. And so after doing that,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2199.24,"endTime":2202.06,"body":"for a number of years, and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2199.24,"endTime":2202.06,"body":"listening to a lot of students,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2202.87,"endTime":2206.41,"body":"expressed those concerns, and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2202.87,"endTime":2206.41,"body":"the cost of higher education"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2206.41,"endTime":2211.63,"body":"over those 15 years exploded, it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2206.41,"endTime":2211.63,"body":"just went crazy. Higher"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2211.63,"endTime":2213.52,"body":"education and health care are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2211.63,"endTime":2213.52,"body":"the only two things that are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2213.52,"endTime":2217.6,"body":"like off the charts in terms of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2213.52,"endTime":2217.6,"body":"the increase in cost over the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2217.6,"endTime":2221.29,"body":"same period of time, as, you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2217.6,"endTime":2221.29,"body":"know, other cost of living. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2221.29,"endTime":2225.7,"body":"so I, after a lot of listening"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2221.29,"endTime":2225.7,"body":"to students, and some of my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2225.7,"endTime":2229.27,"body":"colleagues complaining about the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2225.7,"endTime":2229.27,"body":"way the system was, I decided,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2229.27,"endTime":2233.41,"body":"well, seems like we can do"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2229.27,"endTime":2233.41,"body":"something about this. There's no"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2233.41,"endTime":2235.33,"body":"reason to just complain and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2233.41,"endTime":2235.33,"body":"complain, and you can just make"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2235.33,"endTime":2240.31,"body":"a change. So that's what led me"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2235.33,"endTime":2240.31,"body":"to start Wayfinding. So we are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2240.34,"endTime":2245.56,"body":"a, we've been around this is our"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2240.34,"endTime":2245.56,"body":"sixth birthday was last week. So"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2245.56,"endTime":2249.37,"body":"we've been around for six years,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2245.56,"endTime":2249.37,"body":"we've graduated three cohorts of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2249.37,"endTime":2252.25,"body":"students. And we have three more"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2249.37,"endTime":2252.25,"body":"cohorts of students enrolled"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2252.25,"endTime":2256.81,"body":"right now with us. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2252.25,"endTime":2256.81,"body":"two year private, nonprofit"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2256.81,"endTime":2261.25,"body":"community college. So the whole"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2256.81,"endTime":2261.25,"body":"goal students do get a degree at"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2261.25,"endTime":2263.71,"body":"the end of it and associate's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2261.25,"endTime":2263.71,"body":"degree, just like any other two"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2263.71,"endTime":2267.58,"body":"year Community College, but they"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2263.71,"endTime":2267.58,"body":"are, more importantly, I think"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2267.58,"endTime":2271.18,"body":"what they get out of it is the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2267.58,"endTime":2271.18,"body":"opportunity to spend this time"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2271.21,"endTime":2273.97,"body":"in a community of people"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2271.21,"endTime":2273.97,"body":"supporting them and guiding them"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2273.97,"endTime":2277.09,"body":"and helping them answer core"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2273.97,"endTime":2277.09,"body":"questions about who they are,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2277.09,"endTime":2279.43,"body":"what they value, what do they"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2277.09,"endTime":2279.43,"body":"want to do with their life,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2280.99,"endTime":2283.87,"body":"identifying things that are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2280.99,"endTime":2283.87,"body":"going on in the world that they"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2283.87,"endTime":2287.38,"body":"care deeply about and want to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2283.87,"endTime":2287.38,"body":"have an impact on. And then"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2287.5,"endTime":2290.32,"body":"practicing during those two"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2287.5,"endTime":2290.32,"body":"years, they do internships, they"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2290.32,"endTime":2294.4,"body":"do projects, we don't have any"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2290.32,"endTime":2294.4,"body":"grades or tests. We do"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2294.4,"endTime":2297.04,"body":"everything sort of experiential,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2294.4,"endTime":2297.04,"body":"and so that at the end of two"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2297.04,"endTime":2299.95,"body":"years, they have actual skills,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2297.04,"endTime":2299.95,"body":"they have a portfolio, they've"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2299.95,"endTime":2303.19,"body":"done internships, and most of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2299.95,"endTime":2303.19,"body":"them are already doing their"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2303.19,"endTime":2306.13,"body":"work in the world that they want"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2303.19,"endTime":2306.13,"body":"to be doing. And so then we help"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2306.13,"endTime":2310.0,"body":"them with their next steps after"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2306.13,"endTime":2310.0,"body":"Wayfinding, which is what I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2310.0,"endTime":2313.0,"body":"thought in my idealized version"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2310.0,"endTime":2313.0,"body":"of things, what what higher"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2313.0,"endTime":2317.32,"body":"education was going to do. But I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2313.0,"endTime":2317.32,"body":"chose a two year format instead"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2317.32,"endTime":2321.13,"body":"of a four year format. Because I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2317.32,"endTime":2321.13,"body":"think that two years, if done"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2321.13,"endTime":2325.96,"body":"well, two years is enough to get"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2321.13,"endTime":2325.96,"body":"to get students to take those"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2325.96,"endTime":2329.8,"body":"first steps. And we also made it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2325.96,"endTime":2329.8,"body":"really affordable. And we meet"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2329.8,"endTime":2333.94,"body":"everybody's financial need, in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2329.8,"endTime":2333.94,"body":"whatever way we need to. So that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2334.0,"endTime":2337.6,"body":"none of our students graduate"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2334.0,"endTime":2337.6,"body":"with, with student loan debt."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2338.86,"endTime":2339.79,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2341.13,"endTime":2344.88,"body":"Yeah, it sounds."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2341.13,"endTime":2344.88,"body":"It sounds very simple now, but"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2344.88,"endTime":2348.18,"body":"you know, six years after"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2344.88,"endTime":2348.18,"body":"starting it, but holy moly, it's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2348.18,"endTime":2351.39,"body":"really a hard thing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2348.18,"endTime":2351.39,"body":"to start a college from scratch"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2351.39,"endTime":2354.36,"body":"and to try. And I know, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2351.39,"endTime":2354.36,"body":"understand that the tiny house"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2354.36,"endTime":2357.6,"body":"movement was very similar in the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2354.36,"endTime":2357.6,"body":"early days as well is that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2357.6,"endTime":2360.36,"body":"you're just you're having a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2357.6,"endTime":2360.36,"body":"conversation about something"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2360.36,"endTime":2364.56,"body":"that everybody else doesn't even"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2360.36,"endTime":2364.56,"body":"quite know where to where to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2364.56,"endTime":2368.97,"body":"begin with that conversation."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2364.56,"endTime":2368.97,"body":"It's not something that is part"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2368.97,"endTime":2375.57,"body":"of our societal discourse. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2368.97,"endTime":2375.57,"body":"And now tiny houses have become"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2375.57,"endTime":2378.57,"body":"that which is fantastic that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2375.57,"endTime":2378.57,"body":"everybody can now have that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2378.57,"endTime":2382.11,"body":"conversation about living simply"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2378.57,"endTime":2382.11,"body":"and not taking more space than"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2382.11,"endTime":2385.41,"body":"you need and consumerism and how"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2382.11,"endTime":2385.41,"body":"it connects with all of that."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2385.65,"endTime":2388.71,"body":"We're not yet there with"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2385.65,"endTime":2388.71,"body":"alternative alternative"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2388.71,"endTime":2393.72,"body":"colleges. It's not part of our"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2388.71,"endTime":2393.72,"body":"standard societal conversation"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2393.72,"endTime":2394.17,"body":"yet."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2395.53,"endTime":2397.78,"body":"Right? It's kind"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2395.53,"endTime":2397.78,"body":"of like okay, this is like an"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2398.02,"endTime":2402.76,"body":"alternative and I'm using air"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2398.02,"endTime":2402.76,"body":"quotes. Like school, and I could"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2402.76,"endTime":2406.96,"body":"see how traditionalists might"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2402.76,"endTime":2406.96,"body":"look down, you know, kind of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2407.08,"endTime":2409.84,"body":"like, snub their nose and look"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2407.08,"endTime":2409.84,"body":"down upon it."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2410.77,"endTime":2413.95,"body":"Much like people"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2410.77,"endTime":2413.95,"body":"in you know, larger houses are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2413.95,"endTime":2418.75,"body":"like, you know, that seems"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2413.95,"endTime":2418.75,"body":"silly. Yep, exactly. So I think"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2418.75,"endTime":2423.73,"body":"we're still, we're still there."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2418.75,"endTime":2423.73,"body":"Things are starting to change in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2423.76,"endTime":2426.4,"body":"terms of the national discourse"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2423.76,"endTime":2426.4,"body":"about this. And some of the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2426.4,"endTime":2429.4,"body":"things Wayfinding has been doing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2426.4,"endTime":2429.4,"body":"from the beginning, like, not"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2429.4,"endTime":2431.68,"body":"requiring standardized test"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2429.4,"endTime":2431.68,"body":"scores for as part of our"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2431.68,"endTime":2436.99,"body":"admissions process, or de"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2431.68,"endTime":2436.99,"body":"emphasizing grades or removing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2436.99,"endTime":2440.47,"body":"grades altogether, and doing"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2436.99,"endTime":2440.47,"body":"more holistic stuff. I think"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2440.47,"endTime":2443.74,"body":"some of that now colleges are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2440.47,"endTime":2443.74,"body":"starting to talk a lot more"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2443.74,"endTime":2448.42,"body":"about but that's a slow road,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2443.74,"endTime":2448.42,"body":"probably."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2448.99,"endTime":2452.38,"body":"Yes. Yes. Higher"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2448.99,"endTime":2452.38,"body":"Education. Not not fast to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2452.38,"endTime":2453.07,"body":"change."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2453.37,"endTime":2458.32,"body":"No, maybe if"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2453.37,"endTime":2458.32,"body":"HGTV were to start some shows."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2459.91,"endTime":2462.97,"body":"Or educate? I don't know how"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2459.91,"endTime":2462.97,"body":"they would do such a thing. But"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2462.97,"endTime":2465.16,"body":"maybe, because that's I think"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2462.97,"endTime":2465.16,"body":"what happened with the tiny"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2465.16,"endTime":2467.32,"body":"house movement was started"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2465.16,"endTime":2467.32,"body":"happening."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2467.47,"endTime":2469.3,"body":"Yes. Although Be"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2467.47,"endTime":2469.3,"body":"careful what you wish for?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2469.3,"endTime":2475.18,"body":"Because I do. I do think that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2469.3,"endTime":2475.18,"body":"the I do think that HGTV while"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2475.18,"endTime":2480.7,"body":"it has helped normalize tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2475.18,"endTime":2480.7,"body":"houses, has also fed into the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2482.32,"endTime":2485.38,"body":"big ification of of tiny houses,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.62,"endTime":2487.75,"body":"right, the HGTV"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.62,"endTime":2487.75,"body":"application,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2487.99,"endTime":2490.51,"body":"kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2487.99,"endTime":2490.51,"body":"\"Yo, we heard you love climbing"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2490.51,"endTime":2493.72,"body":"walls. So we put a climbing wall"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2490.51,"endTime":2493.72,"body":"on your tiny house.\" Which like"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2493.72,"endTime":2498.7,"body":"it's cool, but it's also a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2493.72,"endTime":2498.7,"body":"little bit kind of getting away"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2498.7,"endTime":2500.98,"body":"from some of the basics maybe?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2501.31,"endTime":2502.66,"body":"Absolutely. Yes."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2503.65,"endTime":2507.01,"body":"And also making"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2503.65,"endTime":2507.01,"body":"them very expensive. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2507.58,"endTime":2512.5,"body":"yeah, I'm curious. Of course,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2507.58,"endTime":2512.5,"body":"like, you know, you had your"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2512.5,"endTime":2516.82,"body":"house built 11 years ago, and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2512.5,"endTime":2516.82,"body":"the price of both people's time"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2516.82,"endTime":2520.24,"body":"and of materials has gone up"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2516.82,"endTime":2520.24,"body":"significantly. But I'm curious"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2520.24,"endTime":2522.91,"body":"what, you know, if you don't"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2520.24,"endTime":2522.91,"body":"mind sharing, what what did it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2522.91,"endTime":2524.74,"body":"cost to have your house bill 11"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2522.91,"endTime":2524.74,"body":"years ago?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2525.2,"endTime":2528.44,"body":"Yeah, my cost 11"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2525.2,"endTime":2528.44,"body":"years ago was in my house was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2528.44,"endTime":2533.39,"body":"$24,000, half of that was labor,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2528.44,"endTime":2533.39,"body":"and half of that was materials."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2533.69,"endTime":2536.96,"body":"Wow. And I didn't build it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2533.69,"endTime":2536.96,"body":"myself, I don't have those"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2536.96,"endTime":2540.08,"body":"skills. And so I did hire"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2536.96,"endTime":2540.08,"body":"someone to build it. She was an"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2540.08,"endTime":2544.73,"body":"amazing person, Katie, built it."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2540.08,"endTime":2544.73,"body":"And so one, one woman built my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2544.76,"endTime":2548.39,"body":"house for me, a different"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2544.76,"endTime":2548.39,"body":"person, Dee Williams actually"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2548.39,"endTime":2553.4,"body":"did the design of it, designed"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2548.39,"endTime":2553.4,"body":"it, Katie built it. And I think,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2554.42,"endTime":2557.33,"body":"at least here in Oregon, there's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2554.42,"endTime":2557.33,"body":"a couple of places that will"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2557.33,"endTime":2562.13,"body":"build houses for you for"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2557.33,"endTime":2562.13,"body":"somewhat of an affordable price."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2562.82,"endTime":2566.27,"body":"And if you provide a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2562.82,"endTime":2566.27,"body":"materials, like in my case, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2566.27,"endTime":2569.72,"body":"provided a lot of reused"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2566.27,"endTime":2569.72,"body":"materials, which have helped"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2569.84,"endTime":2574.61,"body":"keep the cost down. But I think"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2569.84,"endTime":2574.61,"body":"it'd be really hard to get, of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2574.61,"endTime":2578.69,"body":"course, I have like only a 14"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2574.61,"endTime":2578.69,"body":"foot trailer, so 14, smallest"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2578.69,"endTime":2584.3,"body":"house you can do. which also"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2578.69,"endTime":2584.3,"body":"helps keep the costs down labor"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2584.3,"endTime":2587.0,"body":"and materials. But I think it'd"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2584.3,"endTime":2587.0,"body":"be really hard to get a house"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2587.0,"endTime":2591.71,"body":"for $24,000 these days, unless"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2587.0,"endTime":2591.71,"body":"you built it yourself, in which"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2591.71,"endTime":2593.48,"body":"case, it's still possible."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2594.02,"endTime":2596.39,"body":"Right? I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2594.02,"endTime":2596.39,"body":"would say that even doing it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2596.39,"endTime":2601.58,"body":"yourself, you would have to use"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2596.39,"endTime":2601.58,"body":"a majority of reclaimed"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2601.76,"endTime":2608.63,"body":"repurposed materials, it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2601.76,"endTime":2608.63,"body":"definitely doable. But it's it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2608.63,"endTime":2614.27,"body":"kind of amazing to actually say,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2608.63,"endTime":2614.27,"body":"Wow, $24,000 that's like, some"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2614.27,"endTime":2618.83,"body":"tiny house trailers costs like"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2614.27,"endTime":2618.83,"body":"eight or $9,000. Now when you're"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2618.83,"endTime":2623.18,"body":"looking at like, these 30, plus"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2618.83,"endTime":2623.18,"body":"foot trailers that can hold 15"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2623.18,"endTime":2624.65,"body":"or 20,000 pounds. So"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2625.29,"endTime":2627.81,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2625.29,"endTime":2627.81,"body":"the two most expensive parts of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2627.81,"endTime":2631.05,"body":"my house were that my trailer,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2627.81,"endTime":2631.05,"body":"which I think if I remember was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2631.05,"endTime":2638.88,"body":"about $2200, $2400, a 14 foot"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2631.05,"endTime":2638.88,"body":"trailer. And then my windows, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2638.88,"endTime":2641.43,"body":"have a lot of windows in my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2638.88,"endTime":2641.43,"body":"house, and those were all but"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2641.43,"endTime":2645.33,"body":"two of them were new windows."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2641.43,"endTime":2645.33,"body":"And that was about $2,000 as"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2645.33,"endTime":2649.86,"body":"well for the windows. Everything"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2645.33,"endTime":2649.86,"body":"else was much smaller expenses."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2650.25,"endTime":2652.86,"body":"And I did I haven't looked at it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2650.25,"endTime":2652.86,"body":"in years and years and years,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2652.86,"endTime":2655.62,"body":"but I did keep a list of you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2652.86,"endTime":2655.62,"body":"know, every every piece of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2656.04,"endTime":2658.41,"body":"material in the house and how"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2656.04,"endTime":2658.41,"body":"much that cost and that kind of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2658.41,"endTime":2663.72,"body":"thing. So but those were by far"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2658.41,"endTime":2663.72,"body":"the two largest single expenses"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2663.72,"endTime":2668.76,"body":"for the house. So I think it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2663.72,"endTime":2668.76,"body":"definitely depends on on how you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2668.76,"endTime":2672.15,"body":"approach that and and what you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2668.76,"endTime":2672.15,"body":"what you want to prioritize. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2672.15,"endTime":2675.96,"body":"I think that's the I think"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2672.15,"endTime":2675.96,"body":"that's the one of the overall"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2675.96,"endTime":2679.38,"body":"benefits of choosing to live in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2675.96,"endTime":2679.38,"body":"a tiny house, even if it's not"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2680.46,"endTime":2684.57,"body":"very tiny, is that you are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2680.46,"endTime":2684.57,"body":"forced to make informed"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2684.57,"endTime":2689.28,"body":"intentional choices about the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2684.57,"endTime":2689.28,"body":"way you live in a way that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2689.28,"endTime":2691.26,"body":"you're not if you're just like,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2689.28,"endTime":2691.26,"body":"Oh, I'm just gonna get this"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2691.26,"endTime":2693.27,"body":"house and it's gonna be big and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2691.26,"endTime":2693.27,"body":"it's gonna have plenty of space"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2693.27,"endTime":2695.97,"body":"for everything. And I don't have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2693.27,"endTime":2695.97,"body":"to make those informed"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2695.97,"endTime":2701.07,"body":"intentional choices because it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2695.97,"endTime":2701.07,"body":"really forced me to Prioritize"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2702.36,"endTime":2706.29,"body":"how you know what I wanted my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2702.36,"endTime":2706.29,"body":"life to be like and have a house"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2706.29,"endTime":2708.72,"body":"that match that, because I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2706.29,"endTime":2708.72,"body":"couldn't have everything. I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2708.72,"endTime":2710.58,"body":"could only have some things and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2708.72,"endTime":2710.58,"body":"I had to choose."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2710.95,"endTime":2715.66,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. If"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2710.95,"endTime":2715.66,"body":"you if you were going to design"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2715.66,"endTime":2719.98,"body":"another tiny house, one for you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2715.66,"endTime":2719.98,"body":"and your partner to live in? Uh"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2719.98,"endTime":2723.1,"body":"huh. How much bigger Do you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2719.98,"endTime":2723.1,"body":"think you'd go?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2724.86,"endTime":2729.96,"body":"Probably not"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2724.86,"endTime":2729.96,"body":"much. I'm friends of mine that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2729.96,"endTime":2733.53,"body":"had their house built right"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2729.96,"endTime":2733.53,"body":"shortly after mine, they a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2733.53,"endTime":2735.72,"body":"couple and they lived in it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2733.53,"endTime":2735.72,"body":"together. And they did an"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2735.75,"endTime":2741.15,"body":"18-foot trailer. So for just"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2735.75,"endTime":2741.15,"body":"four feet longer. But that gave"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2741.15,"endTime":2745.23,"body":"them a much more counter space"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2741.15,"endTime":2745.23,"body":"for the kitchen, it gave them"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2745.26,"endTime":2749.94,"body":"the ability to have a downstairs"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2745.26,"endTime":2749.94,"body":"bed that folds out. And their"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2749.94,"endTime":2754.83,"body":"upstairs loft bed, which if I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2749.94,"endTime":2754.83,"body":"think that would be critical,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2754.83,"endTime":2757.5,"body":"especially when you think about"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2754.83,"endTime":2757.5,"body":"like, as we age, if we were to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2757.5,"endTime":2760.47,"body":"get injured and not be able to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2757.5,"endTime":2760.47,"body":"climb a ladder to a loft bed."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2761.49,"endTime":2764.25,"body":"Having the ability to have a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2761.49,"endTime":2764.25,"body":"downstairs bed that kind of fold"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2764.25,"endTime":2769.11,"body":"out situation, it also gave them"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2764.25,"endTime":2769.11,"body":"the opportunity to have a like a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2769.47,"endTime":2772.17,"body":"very small dining room table"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2769.47,"endTime":2772.17,"body":"kind of thing where they can sit"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2772.17,"endTime":2775.29,"body":"together. I have a built in desk"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2772.17,"endTime":2775.29,"body":"that I can work from, but it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2775.29,"endTime":2778.89,"body":"doesn't provide me a place for"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2775.29,"endTime":2778.89,"body":"two of us to sit and have a meal"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2778.89,"endTime":2781.56,"body":"together. Because I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2778.89,"endTime":2781.56,"body":"imagining two people when I had"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2781.56,"endTime":2787.02,"body":"it built. So I think even just"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2781.56,"endTime":2787.02,"body":"four feet more would would give"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2787.02,"endTime":2789.36,"body":"those kinds of things that I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2787.02,"endTime":2789.36,"body":"think are more conducive to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2789.36,"endTime":2793.41,"body":"having two people in a house,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2789.36,"endTime":2793.41,"body":"then one person, so I don't"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2793.41,"endTime":2798.81,"body":"think you have to go much"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2793.41,"endTime":2798.81,"body":"bigger. In my dream world. If I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2798.81,"endTime":2801.36,"body":"wanted him to be able to have a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2798.81,"endTime":2801.36,"body":"couch and me to be able to have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2801.36,"endTime":2805.47,"body":"a bathtub, I'm probably have to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2801.36,"endTime":2805.47,"body":"go to like 20 feet, I think."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2805.83,"endTime":2806.28,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2806.95,"endTime":2810.01,"body":"Which is still"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2806.95,"endTime":2810.01,"body":"smaller than most tiny houses"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2810.01,"endTime":2811.6,"body":"being pretty small. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2812.53,"endTime":2814.96,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2812.53,"endTime":2814.96,"body":"That's right. Nice. But I want"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2814.96,"endTime":2820.39,"body":"to but I, you know, I can move"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2814.96,"endTime":2820.39,"body":"mine around with a normal heavy"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2820.39,"endTime":2826.96,"body":"duty pickup truck. Which, that's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2820.39,"endTime":2826.96,"body":"a big benefit, right? whereas"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2826.96,"endTime":2830.65,"body":"those much huger ones, you have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2826.96,"endTime":2830.65,"body":"to, you know, contract an 18"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2830.65,"endTime":2835.0,"body":"wheeler kind of a rig to move it"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2830.65,"endTime":2835.0,"body":"around. And that's not the same"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2835.0,"endTime":2836.47,"body":"thing. So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2838.12,"endTime":2840.85,"body":"Yeah, two very"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2838.12,"endTime":2840.85,"body":"different ends of the spectrum,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2841.18,"endTime":2849.04,"body":"I would say, yeah, I'm curious."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2841.18,"endTime":2849.04,"body":"Any tips on finding parking"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2849.04,"endTime":2851.5,"body":"because it seems like you've"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2849.04,"endTime":2851.5,"body":"been in your tiny house 11"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2851.5,"endTime":2854.44,"body":"years, you've moved it a few"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2851.5,"endTime":2854.44,"body":"times, anything you've learned"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2854.5,"endTime":2855.28,"body":"along the way?"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2856.92,"endTime":2858.72,"body":"It's gonna sound"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2856.92,"endTime":2858.72,"body":"so cliche, but it's gonna have"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2858.72,"endTime":2864.09,"body":"to go back to community. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2858.72,"endTime":2864.09,"body":"For one year I was parked. Here"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2864.09,"endTime":2868.92,"body":"in in Portland, we have a an"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2864.09,"endTime":2868.92,"body":"island just north of downtown"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2868.92,"endTime":2871.5,"body":"called Suavi Island, which is"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2868.92,"endTime":2871.5,"body":"like an app primarily at this"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2871.5,"endTime":2875.64,"body":"point, an agricultural Island,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2871.5,"endTime":2875.64,"body":"it has a lot of Native American"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2875.64,"endTime":2877.74,"body":"history to it, and where it's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2875.64,"endTime":2877.74,"body":"where a lot of indigenous"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2877.74,"endTime":2881.04,"body":"peoples used to make their homes"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2877.74,"endTime":2881.04,"body":"and make their livelihoods."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2881.34,"endTime":2886.2,"body":"Yeah. And it is now mostly an"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2881.34,"endTime":2886.2,"body":"agricultural island has, like,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2886.2,"endTime":2888.93,"body":"you know, berry farms and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2886.2,"endTime":2888.93,"body":"pumpkin picking patches and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2889.17,"endTime":2892.68,"body":"those sorts of things. And on"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2889.17,"endTime":2892.68,"body":"the very far end of the island,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2892.71,"endTime":2896.37,"body":"they have a little bit of like"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2892.71,"endTime":2896.37,"body":"an alternative RV park with a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2896.37,"endTime":2899.67,"body":"lot of Airstreams and things"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2896.37,"endTime":2899.67,"body":"like that. So for one year, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2900.42,"endTime":2904.98,"body":"lived there. And that I found a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2900.42,"endTime":2904.98,"body":"very normal sort of a way, you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2904.98,"endTime":2908.37,"body":"know, I found an RV park online,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2904.98,"endTime":2908.37,"body":"and I went out and looked at it,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2908.37,"endTime":2911.61,"body":"and I met the manager of the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2908.37,"endTime":2911.61,"body":"park and I moved my house there."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2911.61,"endTime":2916.74,"body":"And so a very standard kind of a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2911.61,"endTime":2916.74,"body":"process. But that was only one"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2916.74,"endTime":2920.01,"body":"year of my 11 years, every other"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2916.74,"endTime":2920.01,"body":"time I've been in three other"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2920.01,"endTime":2924.21,"body":"yards. So over the course of the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2920.01,"endTime":2924.21,"body":"those 11 years, I've lived in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2924.21,"endTime":2926.67,"body":"three different backyards. And"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2924.21,"endTime":2926.67,"body":"every time it was through a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2926.67,"endTime":2930.57,"body":"community that I found it, I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2926.67,"endTime":2930.57,"body":"know nowadays, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2930.57,"endTime":2933.06,"body":"like Facebook groups where you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2930.57,"endTime":2933.06,"body":"can post, \"Oh, I'm looking for a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2933.06,"endTime":2938.61,"body":"spot\" or that kind of thing. So"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2933.06,"endTime":2938.61,"body":"I'm in the local, Portland tiny"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2938.61,"endTime":2941.76,"body":"houses Facebook group, and I see"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2938.61,"endTime":2941.76,"body":"a lot of opportunities there for"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2941.76,"endTime":2945.33,"body":"people saying I'm looking for a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2941.76,"endTime":2945.33,"body":"space or I have a space or what"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2945.33,"endTime":2949.92,"body":"have you. And so that'd be a tip"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2945.33,"endTime":2949.92,"body":"I'd recommend is find, whatever"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2949.92,"endTime":2954.21,"body":"your local way of communicating"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2949.92,"endTime":2954.21,"body":"about that is, which is probably"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2954.21,"endTime":2957.36,"body":"going to be something like a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2954.21,"endTime":2957.36,"body":"Facebook group, and join that."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2958.53,"endTime":2963.93,"body":"And then what's worked for me."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2958.53,"endTime":2963.93,"body":"The first and third time that I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2963.93,"endTime":2968.7,"body":"found yards, was making that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2963.93,"endTime":2968.7,"body":"little flyer having pictures of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2968.79,"endTime":2971.97,"body":"me having pictures of my house"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2968.79,"endTime":2971.97,"body":"having a little bit about who I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2971.97,"endTime":2974.97,"body":"am, so that the person who's"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2971.97,"endTime":2974.97,"body":"considering letting me share"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2974.97,"endTime":2979.8,"body":"their private space can Google"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2974.97,"endTime":2979.8,"body":"me can learn about me can"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2979.8,"endTime":2984.69,"body":"understand why I live in a tiny"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2979.8,"endTime":2984.69,"body":"house, what my values are what I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2984.69,"endTime":2988.8,"body":"do with my life outside of my"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2984.69,"endTime":2988.8,"body":"home, so that they can make an"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2988.8,"endTime":2993.63,"body":"informed intentional choice"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2988.8,"endTime":2993.63,"body":"about who I am. And I think you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2993.63,"endTime":2995.94,"body":"know, creating just like a one"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2993.63,"endTime":2995.94,"body":"page little thing that you can"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2995.94,"endTime":2998.67,"body":"post in those groups or you can"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2995.94,"endTime":2998.67,"body":"circulate among communities is a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2998.67,"endTime":3002.51,"body":"really good way to do it. The"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":2998.67,"endTime":3002.51,"body":"second place the place I was"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3002.51,"endTime":3006.59,"body":"parked for the longest I found"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3002.51,"endTime":3006.59,"body":"through a friend. I was just"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3006.59,"endTime":3008.96,"body":"talking to one of my friends"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3006.59,"endTime":3008.96,"body":"about how I was thinking of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3008.96,"endTime":3012.02,"body":"moving, I wanted to live a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3008.96,"endTime":3012.02,"body":"little closer to work. And she"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3012.02,"endTime":3014.78,"body":"said, \"I've got this friend"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3012.02,"endTime":3014.78,"body":"who's got this great backyard."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3014.78,"endTime":3017.18,"body":"And I think she loves something"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3014.78,"endTime":3017.18,"body":"like this. she's obsessed with"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3017.18,"endTime":3019.61,"body":"tiny houses, but she doesn't"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3017.18,"endTime":3019.61,"body":"want one herself. Can I can I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3019.61,"endTime":3023.81,"body":"introduce you?\" And I said,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3019.61,"endTime":3023.81,"body":"Sure. And I lived there for"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3023.81,"endTime":3026.18,"body":"years, it was the best place"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3023.81,"endTime":3026.18,"body":"I've ever lived. And that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3026.6,"endTime":3030.71,"body":"friend's daughter is now a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3026.6,"endTime":3030.71,"body":"student at Wayfinding. So life"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3030.74,"endTime":3035.33,"body":"is an interesting journey. And I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3030.74,"endTime":3035.33,"body":"think some of it is just being"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3035.33,"endTime":3040.67,"body":"open to that. And really"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3035.33,"endTime":3040.67,"body":"understanding why you want to be"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3041.0,"endTime":3043.79,"body":"parked where you do and what"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3041.0,"endTime":3043.79,"body":"what's the most important to"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3043.79,"endTime":3047.63,"body":"you. So for me, at this moment,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3043.79,"endTime":3047.63,"body":"I found my current spot through"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3047.63,"endTime":3050.33,"body":"a friend through an acquaintance"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3047.63,"endTime":3050.33,"body":"I met at a neighborhood"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3050.33,"endTime":3054.62,"body":"association meeting who had a"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3050.33,"endTime":3054.62,"body":"friend who had a yard. But for"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3054.62,"endTime":3059.48,"body":"me, my priority was living in"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3054.62,"endTime":3059.48,"body":"community with somebody who I"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3059.48,"endTime":3063.47,"body":"enjoyed their company, and"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3059.48,"endTime":3063.47,"body":"within walking distance to the"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3063.47,"endTime":3067.43,"body":"college. And I've found both of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3063.47,"endTime":3067.43,"body":"those. And I feel really"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3067.43,"endTime":3067.94,"body":"fortunate."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3068.7,"endTime":3072.45,"body":"Nice. One thing"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3068.7,"endTime":3072.45,"body":"that I like to ask all of my"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3072.45,"endTime":3077.94,"body":"guests is, what are two or three"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3072.45,"endTime":3077.94,"body":"books or resources that you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3077.94,"endTime":3081.75,"body":"recommend that don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3077.94,"endTime":3081.75,"body":"have to be about tiny houses,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3081.75,"endTime":3086.76,"body":"but just recommendations to pass"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3081.75,"endTime":3086.76,"body":"along? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3087.62,"endTime":3091.34,"body":"Well, the first"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3087.62,"endTime":3091.34,"body":"one I'll say is, it's probably"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3091.34,"endTime":3096.32,"body":"common among your audience. But"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3091.34,"endTime":3096.32,"body":"Dee Williams wrote a book called"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3096.32,"endTime":3100.94,"body":"The Big tiny about her journey"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3096.32,"endTime":3100.94,"body":"and experience. And I love it,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3101.42,"endTime":3104.6,"body":"not because of the tiny house"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3101.42,"endTime":3104.6,"body":"elements of it necessarily, but"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3104.6,"endTime":3107.78,"body":"just about how it weaves in with"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3104.6,"endTime":3107.78,"body":"her whole life. And I found"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3107.78,"endTime":3112.04,"body":"myself on almost every page,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3107.78,"endTime":3112.04,"body":"both laughing and crying. And so"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3112.04,"endTime":3115.43,"body":"the way she's got her"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3112.04,"endTime":3115.43,"body":"personality in that story is"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3115.49,"endTime":3118.58,"body":"amazing. So I always recommend"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3115.49,"endTime":3118.58,"body":"that one. For anybody who's even"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3118.58,"endTime":3121.58,"body":"remotely interested in tiny"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3118.58,"endTime":3121.58,"body":"houses, or not really, it's just"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3121.58,"endTime":3126.05,"body":"good for anybody. Yeah. But"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3121.58,"endTime":3126.05,"body":"another one that I just read"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3126.38,"endTime":3133.19,"body":"recently, is called The Book of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3126.38,"endTime":3133.19,"body":"Delights. It's by an author"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3133.19,"endTime":3138.86,"body":"named Ross Gay. And he, he, you"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3133.19,"endTime":3138.86,"body":"know, one year on his birthday,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3138.86,"endTime":3143.15,"body":"he decided he was going to every"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3138.86,"endTime":3143.15,"body":"day by longhand, written out by"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3143.15,"endTime":3147.32,"body":"hand, write down a short story"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3143.15,"endTime":3147.32,"body":"of something that brought him"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3147.32,"endTime":3151.49,"body":"delight that day. And then he"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3147.32,"endTime":3151.49,"body":"collected it into this book of"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3151.49,"endTime":3156.26,"body":"essays. And I think it fits with"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3151.49,"endTime":3156.26,"body":"the idea of living life on"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3156.26,"endTime":3159.05,"body":"purpose and living life"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3156.26,"endTime":3159.05,"body":"intentionally, and paying"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3159.05,"endTime":3164.24,"body":"attention to our surroundings"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3159.05,"endTime":3164.24,"body":"and being self aware in that"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3164.24,"endTime":3168.26,"body":"way. So that we can find joy"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3164.24,"endTime":3168.26,"body":"everyday, even when things are"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3168.26,"endTime":3173.84,"body":"not on the surface, feeling very"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3168.26,"endTime":3173.84,"body":"joyful. So The Book of Delights"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3174.05,"endTime":3176.18,"body":"would be my other"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3174.05,"endTime":3176.18,"body":"recommendation."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3177.32,"endTime":3180.59,"body":"Awesome. Well,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3177.32,"endTime":3180.59,"body":"Michelle Jones, thank you so, so"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3180.59,"endTime":3183.5,"body":"much for your time today. I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3180.59,"endTime":3183.5,"body":"really loved our conversation,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3183.5,"endTime":3186.17,"body":"and I'm excited to share it on"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3183.5,"endTime":3186.17,"body":"the podcast."},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3187.52,"endTime":3189.68,"body":"Thank you,"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3187.52,"endTime":3189.68,"body":"Ethan. I am too, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Michelle Jones","startTime":3189.68,"endTime":3190.19,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3192.43,"endTime":3195.01,"body":"Thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3192.43,"endTime":3195.01,"body":"to Michelle Jones for being a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3195.01,"endTime":3198.49,"body":"guest on the show today. You can"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3195.01,"endTime":3198.49,"body":"find the show notes, including"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3198.52,"endTime":3203.11,"body":"links to Michelle's blog and to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3198.52,"endTime":3203.11,"body":"the Wayfinding Academy, along"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3203.11,"endTime":3206.65,"body":"with some great photos of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3203.11,"endTime":3206.65,"body":"Michelle's tiny house at"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3206.65,"endTime":3214.18,"body":"thetinyhouse.net/154. Again,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3206.65,"endTime":3214.18,"body":"that's thetinyhouse.net/154."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3214.54,"endTime":3217.57,"body":"Well, that's all for this week."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3214.54,"endTime":3217.57,"body":"I'm your host, Ethan Waldman,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3217.57,"endTime":3220.3,"body":"and I'll be back next week with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3217.57,"endTime":3220.3,"body":"another episode of the Tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3220.3,"endTime":3221.83,"body":"House Lifestyle Podcast."}]}