{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.73,"body":"If you don't live"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.73,"body":"in ADU friendly area, which is,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2.76,"endTime":6.33,"body":"by the way, like 90% of the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2.76,"endTime":6.33,"body":"United States, don't build an"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":6.33,"endTime":9.39,"body":"ADU. Build everything other than"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":6.33,"endTime":9.39,"body":"an ADU. Don't put in the kitchen"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":9.39,"endTime":11.61,"body":"sink, don't put in the stove,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":9.39,"endTime":11.61,"body":"and tell your planning"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":11.61,"endTime":13.26,"body":"department to go suck it."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":15.46,"endTime":18.31,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":15.46,"endTime":18.31,"body":"Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast, a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":18.31,"endTime":21.16,"body":"show where you learn how to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":18.31,"endTime":21.16,"body":"plan, build and live the tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":21.16,"endTime":25.24,"body":"lifestyle. I'm your host, Ethan"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":21.16,"endTime":25.24,"body":"Waldman, and this is episode 180"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":25.3,"endTime":31.09,"body":"with Kol Peterson. Kol Peterson"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":25.3,"endTime":31.09,"body":"has been on the forefront of ADU"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":31.12,"endTime":35.59,"body":"development and advocacy for at"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":31.12,"endTime":35.59,"body":"least the last 10 years in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":35.59,"endTime":39.49,"body":"Portland, Oregon. But don't"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":35.59,"endTime":39.49,"body":"worry, this conversation applies"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":39.49,"endTime":43.78,"body":"to ADUs at least everywhere in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":39.49,"endTime":43.78,"body":"the United States, if not beyond"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":43.78,"endTime":49.75,"body":"that. Kol is a really great"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":43.78,"endTime":49.75,"body":"thinker, and is just whip smart"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":49.78,"endTime":54.76,"body":"and really quite funny and, and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":49.78,"endTime":54.76,"body":"just passionate about ADUs. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":54.76,"endTime":58.93,"body":"in this conversation, we will"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":54.76,"endTime":58.93,"body":"really dive into why Kol sees"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":59.02,"endTime":63.88,"body":"ADUs as such an incredible"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":59.02,"endTime":63.88,"body":"opportunity for solving the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":63.88,"endTime":68.35,"body":"affordable housing crisis. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":63.88,"endTime":68.35,"body":"then we also talk about what is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":68.35,"endTime":72.7,"body":"happening in Portland as it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":68.35,"endTime":72.7,"body":"relates to tiny houses, and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":72.85,"endTime":76.93,"body":"probably making Portland the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":72.85,"endTime":76.93,"body":"most tiny house friendly city in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":76.93,"endTime":80.62,"body":"the country, I would think. So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":76.93,"endTime":80.62,"body":"it's really exciting to hear"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":80.62,"endTime":83.56,"body":"what's happening. And I just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":80.62,"endTime":83.56,"body":"really enjoyed this conversation"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":83.56,"endTime":85.75,"body":"with Kol Peterson and I know you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":83.56,"endTime":85.75,"body":"will too."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":87.04,"endTime":89.98,"body":"One more thing when you listen"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":87.04,"endTime":89.98,"body":"to my conversation with Kol"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":90.19,"endTime":93.43,"body":"you'll notice that I actually"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":90.19,"endTime":93.43,"body":"asked Kol a question that came"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":93.43,"endTime":97.0,"body":"in from Tiny House Engage."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":93.43,"endTime":97.0,"body":"That's because Tiny House Engage"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":97.0,"endTime":101.05,"body":"members get to listen live while"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":97.0,"endTime":101.05,"body":"I record these podcast episodes"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":101.23,"endTime":104.53,"body":"and ask questions of our guests."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":101.23,"endTime":104.53,"body":"It's a really great way to get"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":104.53,"endTime":108.22,"body":"an inside look at the Tiny House"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":104.53,"endTime":108.22,"body":"Lifestyle Podcast and also just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":108.22,"endTime":112.27,"body":"get to benefit from the amazing"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":108.22,"endTime":112.27,"body":"array of talented guests that we"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":112.27,"endTime":116.02,"body":"have on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":112.27,"endTime":116.02,"body":"Registration is open until"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":116.05,"endTime":119.11,"body":"Tuesday. So just another couple"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":116.05,"endTime":119.11,"body":"of days and you can learn"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":119.11,"endTime":121.9,"body":"everything you need to know"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":119.11,"endTime":121.9,"body":"about Tiny House Engage at"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":121.9,"endTime":126.85,"body":"thetinyhouse.net/engage. Again,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":121.9,"endTime":126.85,"body":"that's thetinyhouse.net/engage."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":142.56,"endTime":146.76,"body":"Right I am here with Kol"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":142.56,"endTime":146.76,"body":"Peterson. Kol is an ADU expert"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":146.76,"endTime":149.94,"body":"based in Portland, Oregon, who"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":146.76,"endTime":149.94,"body":"has helped catalyze the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":149.94,"endTime":153.36,"body":"exponential growth of ADUs in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":149.94,"endTime":153.36,"body":"Portland over the last decade"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":153.36,"endTime":158.07,"body":"through ADU advocacy, education,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":153.36,"endTime":158.07,"body":"consulting, policy, work and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":158.07,"endTime":160.65,"body":"entrepreneurship through his"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":158.07,"endTime":160.65,"body":"company, Accessory Dwelling"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":160.65,"endTime":164.67,"body":"Strategies, LLC. 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He also co runs ADU"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":186.21,"endTime":189.57,"body":"Academy and the ADU Specialist"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":186.21,"endTime":189.57,"body":"Designation for Professionals"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":189.57,"endTime":192.0,"body":"with Earth Advantage the edits"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":189.57,"endTime":192.0,"body":"and manages"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":192.06,"endTime":197.25,"body":"accessorydwellings.org and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":192.06,"endTime":197.25,"body":"buildinganadu.com. Kol Peterson,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":197.25,"endTime":199.95,"body":"welcome to the Tiny House"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":197.25,"endTime":199.95,"body":"Lifestyle Podcast."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":200.22,"endTime":201.12,"body":"Thanks for having"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":200.22,"endTime":201.12,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":201.9,"endTime":203.43,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":201.9,"endTime":203.43,"body":"being here. It's a very"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":203.43,"endTime":207.0,"body":"impressive bio I as I'm reading"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":203.43,"endTime":207.0,"body":"it, I'm like, wow, this this"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":207.0,"endTime":208.05,"body":"person is busy."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":209.16,"endTime":211.23,"body":"Yeah, I'm busy."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":209.16,"endTime":211.23,"body":"And I'm starting up another"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":211.23,"endTime":214.77,"body":"company right now. So make my"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":211.23,"endTime":214.77,"body":"life busier."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":215.28,"endTime":218.73,"body":"Yeah. Well, I was"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":215.28,"endTime":218.73,"body":"hoping that - I have so many"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":218.73,"endTime":221.22,"body":"different questions for you. 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And no,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":240.99,"endTime":243.84,"body":"I'd said I was actually to tiny"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":240.99,"endTime":243.84,"body":"houses. First I went to a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":243.87,"endTime":248.58,"body":"workshop by Jay Shafer, in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":243.87,"endTime":248.58,"body":"Portland in like, God, it was a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":248.58,"endTime":256.23,"body":"long time ago. Probably like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":248.58,"endTime":256.23,"body":"2010, I'm guessing. And, and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":256.23,"endTime":258.63,"body":"basically, you know, learn about"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":256.23,"endTime":258.63,"body":"tiny houses. I was thinking"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":258.63,"endTime":262.62,"body":"about living in a bus, or a tiny"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":258.63,"endTime":262.62,"body":"house or some kind of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":262.62,"endTime":266.16,"body":"cooperative. And then I learned"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":262.62,"endTime":266.16,"body":"about ADUs. And I was like, Huh,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":266.4,"endTime":271.95,"body":"that's where it's at. So I got"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":266.4,"endTime":271.95,"body":"into ADUs in 2000. Like, later"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":271.95,"endTime":272.79,"body":"in 2010."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":273.57,"endTime":277.14,"body":"Got it. So why"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":273.57,"endTime":277.14,"body":"did you What made you say okay,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":277.53,"endTime":278.7,"body":"ADUs, that's where it's at?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":279.51,"endTime":284.04,"body":"Well, because tiny"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":279.51,"endTime":284.04,"body":"houses weren't legal, you know?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":284.37,"endTime":287.04,"body":"Yeah, they weren't legal"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":284.37,"endTime":287.04,"body":"anywhere. And so at us were"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":287.04,"endTime":291.9,"body":"basically like another way to do"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":287.04,"endTime":291.9,"body":"house hacking in a meaningful"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":291.9,"endTime":294.63,"body":"way, in the same way that ADUs"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":291.9,"endTime":294.63,"body":"and tiny houses have a lot in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":294.63,"endTime":297.66,"body":"common, a lot, not uncommon, but"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":294.63,"endTime":297.66,"body":"fundamentally, they're both from"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":297.66,"endTime":301.08,"body":"my vantage solving these major"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":297.66,"endTime":301.08,"body":"systemics social political"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":301.35,"endTime":304.68,"body":"environmental issues. And so I'm"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":301.35,"endTime":304.68,"body":"a fan of both of them. But ADUs,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":304.71,"endTime":308.31,"body":"unlike tiny houses fit really,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":304.71,"endTime":308.31,"body":"you know, relatively well within"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":308.31,"endTime":311.7,"body":"the conventional housing regime"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":308.31,"endTime":311.7,"body":"that is insurance, financing"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":311.73,"endTime":315.09,"body":"appraisals, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":311.73,"endTime":315.09,"body":"construction methods, etc, etc."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":315.27,"endTime":318.75,"body":"Whereas tiny house on wheels"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":315.27,"endTime":318.75,"body":"were this like fringe things and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":318.78,"endTime":323.64,"body":"there couldn't be broad cultural"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":318.78,"endTime":323.64,"body":"or institutional adoption at"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":323.64,"endTime":326.67,"body":"that point in time. Now, that's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":323.64,"endTime":326.67,"body":"changing as we speak, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":326.76,"endTime":331.38,"body":"involved with that, but but"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":326.76,"endTime":331.38,"body":"ADUs, we're of a conventional"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":331.41,"endTime":334.02,"body":"concept that could take hold in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":331.41,"endTime":334.02,"body":"a lot more of the country"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":334.02,"endTime":336.63,"body":"because they fall it out that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":334.02,"endTime":336.63,"body":"nomenclature and standards and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":336.63,"endTime":338.34,"body":"rules of normal construction."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":339.15,"endTime":342.21,"body":"got it got it."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":339.15,"endTime":342.21,"body":"Yeah, in a way, it seems that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":342.21,"endTime":346.35,"body":"tiny houses are being folded in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":342.21,"endTime":346.35,"body":"under the ADU umbrella."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":347.22,"endTime":349.83,"body":"They are now in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":347.22,"endTime":349.83,"body":"you know, five jurisdictions in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":349.83,"endTime":353.52,"body":"California. But, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":349.83,"endTime":353.52,"body":"we're doing in Portland that I'm"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":353.52,"endTime":356.73,"body":"really proud of is not making"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":353.52,"endTime":356.73,"body":"them fall within the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":356.73,"endTime":360.27,"body":"conventional IRC, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":356.73,"endTime":360.27,"body":"nomenclature of planning and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":360.27,"endTime":363.03,"body":"zoning terminology. Rather,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":360.27,"endTime":363.03,"body":"we're carving out an kind of a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":363.03,"endTime":366.93,"body":"new category for a nice tiny"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":363.03,"endTime":366.93,"body":"house on wheels and RVs. And,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":367.02,"endTime":369.6,"body":"and so I think there's the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":367.02,"endTime":369.6,"body":"opportunity for them to fall"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":369.6,"endTime":372.72,"body":"under the ADU umbrella, perhaps,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":369.6,"endTime":372.72,"body":"but I think they're kind of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":372.72,"endTime":374.94,"body":"their own animal enough that I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":372.72,"endTime":374.94,"body":"don't think they should."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":375.3,"endTime":377.94,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":375.3,"endTime":377.94,"body":"so I want to back up a little"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":377.94,"endTime":383.13,"body":"bit from there. You know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":377.94,"endTime":383.13,"body":"always amazed. I hope that my"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":383.13,"endTime":386.46,"body":"listeners now know what ADU"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":383.13,"endTime":386.46,"body":"stands for accessory dwelling"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":386.46,"endTime":391.62,"body":"unit. But in case this is the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":386.46,"endTime":391.62,"body":"first time someone's hearing an"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":391.62,"endTime":394.77,"body":"ADU and you've just like,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":391.62,"endTime":394.77,"body":"expand, what's your definition"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":394.77,"endTime":395.55,"body":"of an ADU?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":396.15,"endTime":398.52,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":396.15,"endTime":398.52,"body":"like a two sentence definition"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":398.64,"endTime":401.82,"body":"of secondary housing on a single"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":398.64,"endTime":401.82,"body":"family lot. That's not all"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":401.85,"endTime":405.69,"body":"entirely true. It's not like a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":401.85,"endTime":405.69,"body":"ghetto. There's different all"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":405.69,"endTime":408.36,"body":"these definitions breakdown, but"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":405.69,"endTime":408.36,"body":"just to keep it simple,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":408.81,"endTime":412.44,"body":"secondary housing unit on a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":408.81,"endTime":412.44,"body":"single family lot and and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":412.44,"endTime":415.32,"body":"commonly referred to as backyard"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":412.44,"endTime":415.32,"body":"cottages in lawsuits, mother in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":415.32,"endTime":419.7,"body":"law units, you know, and 100"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":415.32,"endTime":419.7,"body":"other synonyms. Okay. Yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":419.7,"endTime":423.33,"body":"they can, it's a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":419.7,"endTime":423.33,"body":"definition that encompasses all"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":423.33,"endTime":426.42,"body":"the different permutations of,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":423.33,"endTime":426.42,"body":"you know, converting a room over"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":426.42,"endTime":430.35,"body":"the garage building cottage in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":426.42,"endTime":430.35,"body":"the backyard, building, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":430.35,"endTime":433.65,"body":"know, portioning off your house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":430.35,"endTime":433.65,"body":"into and turning it into a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":433.65,"endTime":435.87,"body":"second unit. All those fall"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":433.65,"endTime":435.87,"body":"under ADU."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":436.23,"endTime":438.51,"body":"Yeah, and we"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":436.23,"endTime":438.51,"body":"should just clarify in that,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":438.54,"endTime":442.62,"body":"like, because that definition is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":438.54,"endTime":442.62,"body":"two sentences, the deep answer"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":442.65,"endTime":446.07,"body":"gets really complicated, but,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":442.65,"endTime":446.07,"body":"but, you know, fundamentally, if"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":446.07,"endTime":449.64,"body":"it has a kitchen in it, it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":446.07,"endTime":449.64,"body":"typically is defined as a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":449.67,"endTime":452.13,"body":"housing unit. And so therefore,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":449.67,"endTime":452.13,"body":"you can add everything to your"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":452.13,"endTime":454.83,"body":"property such as like a detached"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":452.13,"endTime":454.83,"body":"accessory structure that has an"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":454.83,"endTime":457.83,"body":"office in it. That's not an ad."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":454.83,"endTime":457.83,"body":"But if you had a kitchen into"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":457.83,"endTime":460.41,"body":"it, then it's going to trigger"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":457.83,"endTime":460.41,"body":"the ADU standard. So basically,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":460.41,"endTime":463.05,"body":"that's what we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":460.41,"endTime":463.05,"body":"is like a secondary living"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":463.05,"endTime":465.51,"body":"space. That means as its own"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":463.05,"endTime":465.51,"body":"kitchen."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":466.17,"endTime":468.93,"body":"Interesting, and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":466.17,"endTime":468.93,"body":"is that just a Portland thing?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":468.93,"endTime":471.18,"body":"Or is that pretty? Pretty"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":468.93,"endTime":471.18,"body":"national?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":471.21,"endTime":474.15,"body":"That's uniform,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":471.21,"endTime":474.15,"body":"uniform. Okay. But the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":474.15,"endTime":476.97,"body":"interpretation of how you define"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":474.15,"endTime":476.97,"body":"what is it? What is it what is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":476.97,"endTime":480.9,"body":"not a kitchen might vary by law"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":476.97,"endTime":480.9,"body":"jurisdiction level, typically,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":480.9,"endTime":483.78,"body":"it's the stove, it's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":480.9,"endTime":483.78,"body":"specifically it's the to 20"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":483.78,"endTime":486.93,"body":"outlet for a stove or the gas"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":483.78,"endTime":486.93,"body":"connection that defines a stove."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":487.59,"endTime":490.11,"body":"And rather than the stove"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":487.59,"endTime":490.11,"body":"itself, it's the connection to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":490.11,"endTime":494.13,"body":"the stove, and then it's the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":490.11,"endTime":494.13,"body":"certain size of a sink,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":494.13,"endTime":495.72,"body":"basically. Wow."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":496.77,"endTime":498.9,"body":"So you could"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":496.77,"endTime":498.9,"body":"potentially build something that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":498.9,"endTime":501.84,"body":"doesn't have that in it, and it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":498.9,"endTime":501.84,"body":"wouldn't be an ADU."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":502.38,"endTime":505.08,"body":"Exactly. In fact,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":502.38,"endTime":505.08,"body":"I encourage people to do that."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":505.32,"endTime":508.29,"body":"If you don't live in ADU"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":505.32,"endTime":508.29,"body":"friendly area, which is, by the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":508.29,"endTime":511.98,"body":"way, like 90% of the United"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":508.29,"endTime":511.98,"body":"States, don't build an ad you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":512.13,"endTime":514.65,"body":"build everything other than an"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":512.13,"endTime":514.65,"body":"ad, you don't put in the kitchen"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":514.65,"endTime":516.84,"body":"sink, don't put in the stove,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":514.65,"endTime":516.84,"body":"and tell your planning"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":516.84,"endTime":520.65,"body":"department to go suck it like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":516.84,"endTime":520.65,"body":"you're building, you're building"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":520.65,"endTime":525.03,"body":"an ADU, you call it something"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":520.65,"endTime":525.03,"body":"else and you're solving all the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":525.03,"endTime":528.48,"body":"same problems that ADU solves,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":525.03,"endTime":528.48,"body":"and when the time building"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":528.48,"endTime":531.33,"body":"department comes around, you can"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":528.48,"endTime":531.33,"body":"add a kitchen stove but"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":531.33,"endTime":533.73,"body":"meanwhile you have like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":531.33,"endTime":533.73,"body":"functionally and ADU. And people"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":533.73,"endTime":536.7,"body":"you can figure out a way to wash"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":533.73,"endTime":536.7,"body":"your dishes in the bathroom sink"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":536.7,"endTime":538.47,"body":"if needed. And you could figure"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":536.7,"endTime":538.47,"body":"out how to cook your food in a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":538.47,"endTime":543.81,"body":"microwave or convection oven if"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":538.47,"endTime":543.81,"body":"needed. And eventually the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":544.08,"endTime":546.93,"body":"you're in you know city will"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":544.08,"endTime":546.93,"body":"catch up and have decent at"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":546.93,"endTime":550.14,"body":"regulations. But until then,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":546.93,"endTime":550.14,"body":"build you know build what you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":550.14,"endTime":553.05,"body":"want to build that accomplishes"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":550.14,"endTime":553.05,"body":"what you need to accomplish and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":553.05,"endTime":555.45,"body":"then add the kitchen sink and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":553.05,"endTime":555.45,"body":"stove later if needed."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":556.47,"endTime":562.86,"body":"Well, what do you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":556.47,"endTime":562.86,"body":"see as the primary thing that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":563.01,"endTime":564.48,"body":"that ADUs accomplish?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":565.38,"endTime":566.88,"body":"Well, they"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":565.38,"endTime":566.88,"body":"accomplish a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":566.88,"endTime":573.33,"body":"things, right? They're like this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":566.88,"endTime":573.33,"body":"like magical hill that solves"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":573.33,"endTime":575.94,"body":"all these social, economic"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":573.33,"endTime":575.94,"body":"environmental issues, which is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":575.94,"endTime":578.64,"body":"why they're cool. They have such"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":575.94,"endTime":578.64,"body":"a broad coalition from"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":578.64,"endTime":582.45,"body":"affordable housing advocates to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":578.64,"endTime":582.45,"body":"people who want more aging and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":582.45,"endTime":586.14,"body":"phrase place housing"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":582.45,"endTime":586.14,"body":"opportunities people for"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":586.44,"endTime":593.31,"body":"disabled children, to people who"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":586.44,"endTime":593.31,"body":"want to generate wealth to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":593.79,"endTime":596.88,"body":"people who want to solve for"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":593.79,"endTime":596.88,"body":"climate change, because they're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":596.88,"endTime":600.45,"body":"creating urban infill to people"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":596.88,"endTime":600.45,"body":"who believe in green building."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":600.48,"endTime":604.08,"body":"Because they understand that ad"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":600.48,"endTime":604.08,"body":"use are inherently smaller,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":604.08,"endTime":606.9,"body":"therefore they're more"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":604.08,"endTime":606.9,"body":"efficient. So there's a really"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":606.9,"endTime":609.99,"body":"great kind of coalition of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":606.9,"endTime":609.99,"body":"people who have strong reasons"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":609.99,"endTime":614.76,"body":"to believe in ADUs. And so it's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":609.99,"endTime":614.76,"body":"a matter of kind of aligning"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":614.76,"endTime":617.7,"body":"everybody's understanding of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":614.76,"endTime":617.7,"body":"ADUs and the complexities and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":617.7,"endTime":622.29,"body":"the barriers to ADU development"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":617.7,"endTime":622.29,"body":"and changing those institutional"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":622.32,"endTime":626.19,"body":"barriers to enable more people"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":622.32,"endTime":626.19,"body":"to be able to build them. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":626.19,"endTime":628.92,"body":"those institutional barriers"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":626.19,"endTime":628.92,"body":"really start with the regulatory"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":629.19,"endTime":633.03,"body":"legislative barriers that are"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":629.19,"endTime":633.03,"body":"like I said, in in place in 90%"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":633.3,"endTime":635.55,"body":"of the United States including"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":633.3,"endTime":635.55,"body":"the entire East Coast there"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":635.55,"endTime":639.24,"body":"isn't one city an entire East"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":635.55,"endTime":639.24,"body":"Coast united states that has"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":639.24,"endTime":642.09,"body":"what I would call good ad"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":639.24,"endTime":642.09,"body":"regulations yet Wow."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":643.29,"endTime":646.26,"body":"Yeah, I so I'm in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":643.29,"endTime":646.26,"body":"Burlington, Vermont, and and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":646.29,"endTime":649.95,"body":"they're working on it, they they"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":646.29,"endTime":649.95,"body":"they allow ADUs, but"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":650.34,"endTime":653.7,"body":"functionally, you have to be"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":650.34,"endTime":653.7,"body":"rich to build one in your"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":653.7,"endTime":657.12,"body":"backyard just because of how"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":653.7,"endTime":657.12,"body":"many hoops you have to jump"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":657.12,"endTime":664.74,"body":"through to do it. Yeah, yep. So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":657.12,"endTime":664.74,"body":"what, what makes ADU regulations"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":664.77,"endTime":665.91,"body":"more friendly?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":666.36,"endTime":669.15,"body":"Well, thethe big"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":666.36,"endTime":669.15,"body":"ones are off street parking."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":669.18,"endTime":671.79,"body":"Like if you require off street"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":669.18,"endTime":671.79,"body":"parking, people won't be able to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":671.79,"endTime":675.0,"body":"build a legal permanent ADU."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":671.79,"endTime":675.0,"body":"This is like prioritizing cars"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":675.0,"endTime":677.94,"body":"over people. It's geometrically"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":675.0,"endTime":677.94,"body":"impossible to add one that's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":677.94,"endTime":678.96,"body":"kind of a well known one."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":678.96,"endTime":682.38,"body":"The second big one is owner"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":678.96,"endTime":682.38,"body":"occupancy requirements, which is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":682.8,"endTime":685.62,"body":"if you build an ADU, you must"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":682.8,"endTime":685.62,"body":"live on the property. That is,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":685.62,"endTime":688.77,"body":"you know, shackling your freedom"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":685.62,"endTime":688.77,"body":"to do what you want with your"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":688.86,"endTime":692.25,"body":"house to these stupid, arbitrary"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":688.86,"endTime":692.25,"body":"regulations that don't apply to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":692.25,"endTime":694.23,"body":"any other form of housing. Why"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":692.25,"endTime":694.23,"body":"are you planning it to ADUs?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":694.68,"endTime":698.13,"body":"Number three, conditional land"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":694.68,"endTime":698.13,"body":"use reviews, which is where you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":698.13,"endTime":700.32,"body":"have to go through a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":698.13,"endTime":700.32,"body":"discretionary, non predictable"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":700.32,"endTime":703.92,"body":"process. That's a really common"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":700.32,"endTime":703.92,"body":"one on the East Coast, like in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":704.88,"endTime":706.38,"body":"half of Massachusetts anyway."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":706.77,"endTime":707.16,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":708.26,"endTime":711.2,"body":"And then we get"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":708.26,"endTime":711.2,"body":"into much more fine tooth"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":711.32,"endTime":716.03,"body":"detailed barriers, such as the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":711.32,"endTime":716.03,"body":"size of the ADU or the setback"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":716.03,"endTime":718.4,"body":"requirements radius, whether"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":716.03,"endTime":718.4,"body":"it's like, you know, if you have"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":718.4,"endTime":721.01,"body":"a 20 foot rear yard setback"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":718.4,"endTime":721.01,"body":"requirement, because you're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":721.01,"endTime":725.57,"body":"adopting the underlying zoning"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":721.01,"endTime":725.57,"body":"of a particular parcel, that's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":725.57,"endTime":727.88,"body":"going to be a barrier to add"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":725.57,"endTime":727.88,"body":"development, if you're limiting"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":727.88,"endTime":730.88,"body":"the size of an ADU to 25% of the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":727.88,"endTime":730.88,"body":"size of the primary house, which"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":730.88,"endTime":734.75,"body":"is a common regulation, that's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":730.88,"endTime":734.75,"body":"going to limit the ADUs to only"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":734.75,"endTime":738.14,"body":"be like pencil for properties"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":734.75,"endTime":738.14,"body":"that have big houses on it. I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":738.44,"endTime":741.89,"body":"it's a regressive ordinance that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":738.44,"endTime":741.89,"body":"benefits people who have wealth"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":741.89,"endTime":745.04,"body":"and not people who don't. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":741.89,"endTime":745.04,"body":"there's like, you know, probably"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":745.04,"endTime":748.46,"body":"five to seven other significant"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":745.04,"endTime":748.46,"body":"common barriers, such as height"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":748.46,"endTime":752.81,"body":"limitations and other things"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":748.46,"endTime":752.81,"body":"that cause error or like, saying"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":752.81,"endTime":755.48,"body":"the ADU must be attached to the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":752.81,"endTime":755.48,"body":"primary house that undermines"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":755.48,"endTime":759.38,"body":"like 60% of the ADU market. So"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":755.48,"endTime":759.38,"body":"there's a lot of like, common,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":759.38,"endTime":763.07,"body":"more, less, less contentious,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":759.38,"endTime":763.07,"body":"but just like, significant"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":763.07,"endTime":765.98,"body":"barriers like that, that would"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":763.07,"endTime":765.98,"body":"also put into the poison pill"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":765.98,"endTime":766.64,"body":"category."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":767.54,"endTime":770.42,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":767.54,"endTime":770.42,"body":"absolutely. As you rattle those"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":770.42,"endTime":774.41,"body":"things off, I was just kind of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":770.42,"endTime":774.41,"body":"thinking about stories that I've"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":774.41,"endTime":777.56,"body":"heard from, from various cities"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":774.41,"endTime":777.56,"body":"on the east coast of how hard it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":777.56,"endTime":782.27,"body":"is to do these kinds of things."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":777.56,"endTime":782.27,"body":"And, and I wonder, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":782.27,"endTime":786.23,"body":"don't know if this is, well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":782.27,"endTime":786.23,"body":"sure you think about this, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":786.23,"endTime":790.7,"body":"seem like a pretty thoughtful"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":786.23,"endTime":790.7,"body":"guy. Just the the idea or the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":790.7,"endTime":796.46,"body":"criticism that, okay, I am like"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":790.7,"endTime":796.46,"body":"a wealthy person who owns a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":796.46,"endTime":800.15,"body":"house in my city, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":796.46,"endTime":800.15,"body":"put an ADU in my backyard. I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":800.15,"endTime":804.44,"body":"could rent it to a tenant for"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":800.15,"endTime":804.44,"body":"$1200 a month or I could put it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":804.44,"endTime":809.39,"body":"on Airbnb and make $3,000 a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":804.44,"endTime":809.39,"body":"month. Is that a bad thing? If"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":809.42,"endTime":816.08,"body":"If I put my ADU on Airbnb, or am"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":809.42,"endTime":816.08,"body":"I still adding adding housing to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":816.08,"endTime":816.8,"body":"my city?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":817.38,"endTime":820.2,"body":"Well, this is like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":817.38,"endTime":820.2,"body":"the, one of the more"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":820.65,"endTime":824.64,"body":"controversial hot button issues"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":820.65,"endTime":824.64,"body":"within the policy conversation."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":824.64,"endTime":828.78,"body":"So there isn't like one right"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":824.64,"endTime":828.78,"body":"answer to this at all is very,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":828.78,"endTime":832.74,"body":"like dependent on the city."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":828.78,"endTime":832.74,"body":"There's really no right answer."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":832.74,"endTime":837.0,"body":"Okay, so yeah. So in Portland,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":832.74,"endTime":837.0,"body":"what they've done is, they've"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":837.0,"endTime":840.18,"body":"said, we support at us, but if"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":837.0,"endTime":840.18,"body":"and only if they're being used"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":840.18,"endTime":844.11,"body":"to provide housing, anything"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":840.18,"endTime":844.11,"body":"other than short term rental is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":844.11,"endTime":846.03,"body":"a good thing. From our"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":844.11,"endTime":846.03,"body":"perspective, whether it's an"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":846.03,"endTime":850.26,"body":"office space or additional"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":846.03,"endTime":850.26,"body":"living space for an aging parent"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":850.26,"endTime":852.42,"body":"or a visiting family member,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":850.26,"endTime":852.42,"body":"that's all good. But if you're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":852.42,"endTime":855.3,"body":"going to use it as a short term"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":852.42,"endTime":855.3,"body":"rental, you're going to have to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":855.3,"endTime":857.4,"body":"pay the system development"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":855.3,"endTime":857.4,"body":"charges, which are the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":857.52,"endTime":860.64,"body":"residential impact fees for"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":857.52,"endTime":860.64,"body":"doing new development, and that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":860.64,"endTime":864.09,"body":"adds $25,000 of cost. So they're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":860.64,"endTime":864.09,"body":"saying, yep, you can do it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":864.12,"endTime":867.06,"body":"totally fine to use an ADU as a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":864.12,"endTime":867.06,"body":"short term rental, however,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":867.18,"endTime":870.39,"body":"you're going to have to pay to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":867.18,"endTime":870.39,"body":"do so because we don't want to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":870.39,"endTime":873.39,"body":"subsidize you adding a hotel"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":870.39,"endTime":873.39,"body":"room. We don't care about hotel"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":873.39,"endTime":875.85,"body":"rooms. We care about housing,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":873.39,"endTime":875.85,"body":"because we're trying to solve"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":876.39,"endTime":879.45,"body":"the affordable housing crisis."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":876.39,"endTime":879.45,"body":"So we want you to build ADU but"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":879.48,"endTime":883.71,"body":"not if it's a short term rental,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":879.48,"endTime":883.71,"body":"and we're no I shouldn't say if"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":883.71,"endTime":885.39,"body":"it's a short term rental, you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":883.71,"endTime":885.39,"body":"can do it but we're not going to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":885.39,"endTime":887.25,"body":"help you do it financially."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":887.55,"endTime":887.97,"body":"Got it."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":888.48,"endTime":890.73,"body":"So I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":888.48,"endTime":890.73,"body":"that's a reasonable approach for"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":890.73,"endTime":893.85,"body":"a city to take. I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":890.73,"endTime":893.85,"body":"fair approach. I think it makes"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":893.85,"endTime":897.48,"body":"sense. It's in alignment with"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":893.85,"endTime":897.48,"body":"their policy values. But other"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":897.48,"endTime":900.69,"body":"jurisdictions, I can imagine,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":897.48,"endTime":900.69,"body":"simply don't want short term"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":900.69,"endTime":904.41,"body":"rentals at all. In which case,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":900.69,"endTime":904.41,"body":"as long as they're treating at"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":904.41,"endTime":907.41,"body":"us with parity as they do to a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":904.41,"endTime":907.41,"body":"single family house, I think"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":907.41,"endTime":910.95,"body":"it's fine to say no short term"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":907.41,"endTime":910.95,"body":"rentals in our community, or"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":911.16,"endTime":914.52,"body":"every structure can be a short"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":911.16,"endTime":914.52,"body":"term rental, but don't treat us"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":914.76,"endTime":920.79,"body":"with special with poor treatment"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":914.76,"endTime":920.79,"body":"in some way that's going to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":920.79,"endTime":922.17,"body":"specially penalize them."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":923.4,"endTime":925.29,"body":"Got it. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":923.4,"endTime":925.29,"body":"that makes that makes a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":925.29,"endTime":930.57,"body":"sense kind of saying that people"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":925.29,"endTime":930.57,"body":"could do this with single family"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":930.57,"endTime":933.69,"body":"homes. I could I could invest in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":930.57,"endTime":933.69,"body":"buy the house next door and put"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":933.69,"endTime":936.33,"body":"it on Airbnb and that that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":933.69,"endTime":936.33,"body":"shouldn't be treated any"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":936.33,"endTime":940.8,"body":"differently than me putting an"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":936.33,"endTime":940.8,"body":"ADU in my backyard. Yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":941.37,"endTime":946.11,"body":"you've been advocating for ADUs"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":941.37,"endTime":946.11,"body":"for for a long time, probably"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":946.11,"endTime":950.01,"body":"much longer than most people"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":946.11,"endTime":950.01,"body":"have heard about them. I feel"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":950.01,"endTime":954.81,"body":"like in the last couple of years"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":950.01,"endTime":954.81,"body":"ADUs have become a really hot"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":955.17,"endTime":958.41,"body":"kind of almost a buzzword that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":955.17,"endTime":958.41,"body":"you hear at least I hear a lot"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":958.41,"endTime":963.33,"body":"in the tiny house world. Can you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":958.41,"endTime":963.33,"body":"talk about what the landscape"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":963.33,"endTime":966.75,"body":"was like when you started"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":963.33,"endTime":966.75,"body":"advocating for ad use and and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":966.75,"endTime":969.39,"body":"what it's like now at least in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":966.75,"endTime":969.39,"body":"in Portland, where you are?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":970.02,"endTime":972.54,"body":"Well, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":970.02,"endTime":972.54,"body":"mean, I think the broader point"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":972.54,"endTime":974.82,"body":"that you just made is the big"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":972.54,"endTime":974.82,"body":"one which is at is it become"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":974.85,"endTime":979.29,"body":"almost like a it's it's almost"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":974.85,"endTime":979.29,"body":"seeped beyond just being a known"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":979.65,"endTime":983.61,"body":"thing amongst planning and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":979.65,"endTime":983.61,"body":"zoning staff. But now it's kind"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":983.61,"endTime":987.21,"body":"of known amongst a number of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":983.61,"endTime":987.21,"body":"different industries like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":987.21,"endTime":992.55,"body":"builders, planners, designers,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":987.21,"endTime":992.55,"body":"realtors, you know, municipal"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":992.55,"endTime":995.13,"body":"officials, affordable housing"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":992.55,"endTime":995.13,"body":"advocates, green builders,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":995.16,"endTime":997.56,"body":"everybody kind of knows about"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":995.16,"endTime":997.56,"body":"ADUs now. And so there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":997.56,"endTime":1000.71,"body":"of more institutional support,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":997.56,"endTime":1000.71,"body":"not not the least of which is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1000.74,"endTime":1005.09,"body":"AARP, which is the largest"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1000.74,"endTime":1005.09,"body":"nonprofit or member organization"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1005.09,"endTime":1007.88,"body":"in the country. Now they're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1005.09,"endTime":1007.88,"body":"really gun. They're really go"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1007.88,"endTime":1012.05,"body":"home, go whatever. They're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1007.88,"endTime":1012.05,"body":"really gung ho for ADUs, which"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1012.05,"endTime":1015.53,"body":"is awesome. Yeah. Whereas when I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1012.05,"endTime":1015.53,"body":"started doing this work, there"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1015.53,"endTime":1019.1,"body":"was nobody, there was no"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1015.53,"endTime":1019.1,"body":"articles about ADUs. There was"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1019.1,"endTime":1023.48,"body":"no, there's certainly no"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1019.1,"endTime":1023.48,"body":"institutional backing for ADUs"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1023.51,"endTime":1026.84,"body":"by anybody. So it was just like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1023.51,"endTime":1026.84,"body":"an ad hoc group of people that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1026.84,"endTime":1030.14,"body":"got together in Portland, who"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1026.84,"endTime":1030.14,"body":"started to like, think about"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1030.14,"endTime":1034.25,"body":"what we could do to promote this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1030.14,"endTime":1034.25,"body":"thing called ADU is that you've"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1034.25,"endTime":1037.13,"body":"never heard of, but they're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1034.25,"endTime":1037.13,"body":"really cool. And you should"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1037.19,"endTime":1040.49,"body":"consider them. And so it was"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1037.19,"endTime":1040.49,"body":"like building an accessory"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1040.49,"endTime":1044.09,"body":"dwelling site or getting running"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1040.49,"endTime":1044.09,"body":"the ADU tour and teaching"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1044.09,"endTime":1047.81,"body":"classes and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1044.09,"endTime":1047.81,"body":"That was like just like building"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1047.81,"endTime":1053.81,"body":"the base, the the the, the the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1047.81,"endTime":1053.81,"body":"ground game for like awareness"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1053.84,"endTime":1055.25,"body":"about this for housing form."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1056.48,"endTime":1060.98,"body":"Why do you think"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1056.48,"endTime":1060.98,"body":"that the AARP has gotten so gung"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1060.98,"endTime":1062.75,"body":"ho on on ad use?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1063.5,"endTime":1065.33,"body":"for all the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1063.5,"endTime":1065.33,"body":"reasons I just said, it's a win"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1065.33,"endTime":1068.12,"body":"win, win, win, win, win win win"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1065.33,"endTime":1068.12,"body":"win win win win? Which you don't"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1068.12,"endTime":1069.68,"body":"find very much in the world?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1070.34,"endTime":1072.47,"body":"No, no, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1070.34,"endTime":1072.47,"body":"really don't. You really don't."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1072.65,"endTime":1075.86,"body":"It's pretty cool. And it also, I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1072.65,"endTime":1075.86,"body":"think, what's cool about it is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1075.86,"endTime":1079.88,"body":"that it by definition is so"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1075.86,"endTime":1079.88,"body":"grassroots, because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1079.88,"endTime":1083.24,"body":"all these single family homes"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1079.88,"endTime":1083.24,"body":"are owned by individual people."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1083.54,"endTime":1087.83,"body":"And it's it's kind of a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1083.54,"endTime":1087.83,"body":"grassroots response to the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1087.83,"endTime":1091.1,"body":"housing crisis, that we have"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1087.83,"endTime":1091.1,"body":"individual people building"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1091.1,"endTime":1095.06,"body":"individual units in their"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1091.1,"endTime":1095.06,"body":"backyards, rather than a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1095.06,"endTime":1099.86,"body":"developer, you know, buying an"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1095.06,"endTime":1099.86,"body":"old school or an old industrial"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1099.86,"endTime":1102.08,"body":"building and turning it into"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1099.86,"endTime":1102.08,"body":"apartments."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1103.44,"endTime":1105.99,"body":"You basically just"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1103.44,"endTime":1105.99,"body":"quoted the back cover of my"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1105.99,"endTime":1110.25,"body":"book. Wow. I mean, that's,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1105.99,"endTime":1110.25,"body":"that's what I said, Do you know,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1110.25,"endTime":1112.74,"body":"yeah, this is a grassroots"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1110.25,"endTime":1112.74,"body":"housing revolution that can"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1112.74,"endTime":1116.61,"body":"solve all these problems like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1112.74,"endTime":1116.61,"body":"this super cool. That's why I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1116.61,"endTime":1120.3,"body":"like it, it's like distributed."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1116.61,"endTime":1120.3,"body":"It's not a centralized solution."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1120.96,"endTime":1123.39,"body":"So everybody can take advantage"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1120.96,"endTime":1123.39,"body":"of it as long as these"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1123.42,"endTime":1126.63,"body":"institutional barriers and knock"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1123.42,"endTime":1126.63,"body":"down, which I think is awesome,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1126.63,"endTime":1129.06,"body":"like there's very few things"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1126.63,"endTime":1129.06,"body":"like that, it's like a very"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1129.06,"endTime":1132.9,"body":"substantial, it's not a small"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1129.06,"endTime":1132.9,"body":"thing. It's not like not to like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1132.9,"endTime":1136.53,"body":"throw, changing light bulbs"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1132.9,"endTime":1136.53,"body":"under the bus, that's a great"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1136.53,"endTime":1140.19,"body":"thing, do it but like ADUs are"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1136.53,"endTime":1140.19,"body":"very substantial in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1140.19,"endTime":1146.16,"body":"carbon impact or reduction that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1140.19,"endTime":1146.16,"body":"they can offer. So it's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1146.19,"endTime":1149.88,"body":"especially if you're doing like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1146.19,"endTime":1149.88,"body":"a conversion. And this is also"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1149.88,"endTime":1152.13,"body":"true with tiny houses on wheels."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1149.88,"endTime":1152.13,"body":"By the way, it's not just a to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1152.13,"endTime":1155.52,"body":"use, but anyway, it's very"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1152.13,"endTime":1155.52,"body":"substantial thing that somebody"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1155.52,"endTime":1158.85,"body":"can do in their lifetime. Cool."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1155.52,"endTime":1158.85,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1159.95,"endTime":1163.61,"body":"one thing that I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1159.95,"endTime":1163.61,"body":"that I was thinking of while you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1163.61,"endTime":1169.49,"body":"were talking was as the it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1163.61,"endTime":1169.49,"body":"sounds like the legal or the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1169.61,"endTime":1174.32,"body":"regulatory structures have kind"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1169.61,"endTime":1174.32,"body":"of warmed to at us and it's a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1174.32,"endTime":1180.83,"body":"lot easier are the financial and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1174.32,"endTime":1180.83,"body":"insurance and other kind of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1180.95,"endTime":1185.12,"body":"things that a homeowner would"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1180.95,"endTime":1185.12,"body":"need to build one in place, or"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1185.12,"endTime":1187.64,"body":"is it kind of like, Okay, if you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1185.12,"endTime":1187.64,"body":"want to do an ADU, you're going"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1187.64,"endTime":1192.17,"body":"to have to have $100,000 in cash"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1187.64,"endTime":1192.17,"body":"because you're not going to get"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1192.2,"endTime":1193.4,"body":"financing to do it."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1193.99,"endTime":1197.23,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1193.99,"endTime":1197.23,"body":"that's that's kind of the truth"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1197.26,"endTime":1201.7,"body":"with ADUs is like more or less"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1197.26,"endTime":1201.7,"body":"you need to Be well heeled or at"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1201.97,"endTime":1206.8,"body":"least have access to family"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1201.97,"endTime":1206.8,"body":"members who are because the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1206.8,"endTime":1210.85,"body":"financing is so difficult. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1206.8,"endTime":1210.85,"body":"there's a lot of interest now"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1210.88,"endTime":1213.85,"body":"from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1210.88,"endTime":1213.85,"body":"to change underwriting policy,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1213.85,"endTime":1217.15,"body":"but there's still even if they"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1213.85,"endTime":1217.15,"body":"fixed what they could, there's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1217.15,"endTime":1220.45,"body":"still the Appraisers who need to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1217.15,"endTime":1220.45,"body":"understand how to properly value"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1220.45,"endTime":1223.72,"body":"ADU, which is a problem. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1220.45,"endTime":1223.72,"body":"then there's banks, you need to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1223.72,"endTime":1229.24,"body":"be willing to be risky with what"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1223.72,"endTime":1229.24,"body":"construction loan policies to go"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1229.27,"endTime":1231.82,"body":"above and beyond with Fannie Mae"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1229.27,"endTime":1231.82,"body":"and Freddie Mac what might"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1231.82,"endTime":1236.35,"body":"offer? So this is a lot of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1231.82,"endTime":1236.35,"body":"barriers that it's not, it's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1236.35,"endTime":1240.34,"body":"gonna happen. It's just a matter"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1236.35,"endTime":1240.34,"body":"of time. Yeah. And so there's a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1240.34,"endTime":1243.55,"body":"lot of work, a lot of like,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1240.34,"endTime":1243.55,"body":"smart people who are kind of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1243.55,"endTime":1246.97,"body":"thinking about ADU financing all"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1243.55,"endTime":1246.97,"body":"across the country now in their"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1246.97,"endTime":1249.79,"body":"local jurisdiction, like how to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1246.97,"endTime":1249.79,"body":"make ADU financing easier."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1250.06,"endTime":1254.2,"body":"Eventually, after 1000 flowers"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1250.06,"endTime":1254.2,"body":"bloom, you know, some people"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1254.2,"endTime":1257.2,"body":"will figure out good ways to do"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1254.2,"endTime":1257.2,"body":"it just hasn't really occurred"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1257.2,"endTime":1258.25,"body":"yet. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1259.15,"endTime":1261.43,"body":"What do you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1259.15,"endTime":1261.43,"body":"envision for the the future"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1261.43,"endTime":1265.63,"body":"state of ad use? You know, like,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1261.43,"endTime":1265.63,"body":"you've gone from being really"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1265.63,"endTime":1269.47,"body":"hard and not a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1265.63,"endTime":1269.47,"body":"know about it to it's it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1269.47,"endTime":1273.55,"body":"easier than our front ADU"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1269.47,"endTime":1273.55,"body":"friendly cities. But you still"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1273.55,"endTime":1277.57,"body":"have to, as you said, Be well"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1273.55,"endTime":1277.57,"body":"heeled, you know, where do you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1277.57,"endTime":1280.9,"body":"hope this movement is in in 10?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1277.57,"endTime":1280.9,"body":"In 10 years more?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1281.47,"endTime":1285.07,"body":"Well, good tie in,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1281.47,"endTime":1285.07,"body":"I think, I think it should go"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1285.07,"endTime":1288.97,"body":"into the mobile ADU space. I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1285.07,"endTime":1288.97,"body":"think that's where it's at. I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1288.97,"endTime":1293.26,"body":"think that's gonna be like,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1288.97,"endTime":1293.26,"body":"basic when I say mobile ADU is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1293.59,"endTime":1296.11,"body":"that is intended to encompass"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1293.59,"endTime":1296.11,"body":"anything that's a mobile"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1296.11,"endTime":1299.62,"body":"dwelling, whether it's like a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1296.11,"endTime":1299.62,"body":"mobile house, I guess, but more"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1299.62,"endTime":1304.54,"body":"like, a tiny house on wheels, or"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1299.62,"endTime":1304.54,"body":"an RV or a travel trailer, or"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1304.54,"endTime":1306.91,"body":"whatever else may come in the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1304.54,"endTime":1306.91,"body":"future. I think I think there's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1306.91,"endTime":1311.17,"body":"a lot of potential for that to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1306.91,"endTime":1311.17,"body":"be a big thing. Where if that's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1311.17,"endTime":1314.74,"body":"way, like not happening yet, but"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1311.17,"endTime":1314.74,"body":"it will happen, hopefully,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1314.74,"endTime":1318.07,"body":"eventually, because it should,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1314.74,"endTime":1318.07,"body":"yeah, it makes sense for the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1318.07,"endTime":1321.49,"body":"same reasons that, at least for"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1318.07,"endTime":1321.49,"body":"all the policy reasons that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1321.49,"endTime":1325.9,"body":"people state that they like,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1321.49,"endTime":1325.9,"body":"ADUs, mobileADUs would be even"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1325.9,"endTime":1329.02,"body":"better. That is they would be"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1325.9,"endTime":1329.02,"body":"much less expensive. They'd be"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1329.02,"endTime":1332.74,"body":"easier to build one place move,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1329.02,"endTime":1332.74,"body":"we move to someplace else, they"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1332.74,"endTime":1335.44,"body":"provide more flexibility. But"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1332.74,"endTime":1335.44,"body":"it's like a an entirely"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1335.44,"endTime":1338.38,"body":"different sector that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1335.44,"endTime":1338.38,"body":"exist really yet. Except now"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1338.38,"endTime":1343.33,"body":"it's starting to in California"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1338.38,"endTime":1343.33,"body":"and Oregon. Yeah. Got it. Got"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1343.33,"endTime":1343.48,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1344.56,"endTime":1347.47,"body":"Yeah, I was"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1344.56,"endTime":1347.47,"body":"thinking like, okay, right now,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1347.47,"endTime":1352.03,"body":"it's grassroots. Will, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1347.47,"endTime":1352.03,"body":"who knows, maybe in 10 years, if"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1352.03,"endTime":1356.68,"body":"the housing crisis continues to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1352.03,"endTime":1356.68,"body":"get worse, which are all all"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1356.68,"endTime":1360.88,"body":"indicators point to that it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1356.68,"endTime":1360.88,"body":"will. Maybe there will be you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1360.88,"endTime":1365.08,"body":"know, government money or like"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1360.88,"endTime":1365.08,"body":"actual, like, town's reaching"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1365.08,"endTime":1369.01,"body":"out to homeowners and saying,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1365.08,"endTime":1369.01,"body":"like, we want to put an ADU on"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1369.01,"endTime":1373.99,"body":"your property, we'll help you do"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1369.01,"endTime":1373.99,"body":"it, like, kind of reversing the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1373.99,"endTime":1377.08,"body":"flow of like, it's rather than"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1373.99,"endTime":1377.08,"body":"homeowners coming to the city to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1377.08,"endTime":1380.11,"body":"say, Can I do this? The city is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1377.08,"endTime":1380.11,"body":"reaching out to homeowners to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1380.11,"endTime":1381.46,"body":"say please do this."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1382.29,"endTime":1384.78,"body":"Yeah, and they"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1382.29,"endTime":1384.78,"body":"should, right, like cities"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1384.78,"endTime":1389.28,"body":"should be doing whatever they"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1384.78,"endTime":1389.28,"body":"can to support homeowners to do"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1389.28,"endTime":1391.86,"body":"this stuff. Not that they should"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1389.28,"endTime":1391.86,"body":"be directly subsidizing it, but"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1391.86,"endTime":1395.97,"body":"they should be like treating it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1391.86,"endTime":1395.97,"body":"with at use with special white"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1396.03,"endTime":1400.14,"body":"gloves. That makes it as easy as"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1396.03,"endTime":1400.14,"body":"possible. And whatever methods"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1400.14,"endTime":1402.81,"body":"seem to be working on that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1400.14,"endTime":1402.81,"body":"front. Other cities should"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1402.81,"endTime":1406.35,"body":"emulate and the very first thing"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1402.81,"endTime":1406.35,"body":"is having good regulations for"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1406.35,"endTime":1409.08,"body":"them, which is kind of stupid."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1406.35,"endTime":1409.08,"body":"But that's, that's where we're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1409.08,"endTime":1412.65,"body":"at is like the West Coast. Like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1409.08,"endTime":1412.65,"body":"kind of has good ad regulations"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1412.65,"endTime":1415.11,"body":"everywhere. Yeah, but pretty"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1412.65,"endTime":1415.11,"body":"much just just the West Coast."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1415.11,"endTime":1419.13,"body":"Not even like one state in Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1415.11,"endTime":1419.13,"body":"past there. It's like not that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1419.13,"endTime":1420.72,"body":"good across the country."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1421.38,"endTime":1424.23,"body":"This is a good"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1421.38,"endTime":1424.23,"body":"question that came in from Tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1424.23,"endTime":1428.07,"body":"House Engage. Would you say that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1424.23,"endTime":1428.07,"body":"the poison pill and unfriendly"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1428.07,"endTime":1432.03,"body":"barriers are for the most part"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1428.07,"endTime":1432.03,"body":"intentional? Or are they just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1432.09,"endTime":1434.58,"body":"like dinosaurs from the building"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1432.09,"endTime":1434.58,"body":"industry?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1436.26,"endTime":1437.34,"body":"Oh, that's a great"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1436.26,"endTime":1437.34,"body":"question."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1437.45,"endTime":1440.42,"body":"I think they're dinosaurs. I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1437.45,"endTime":1440.42,"body":"mean, certainly now they're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1440.42,"endTime":1443.63,"body":"dinosaurs. Maybe when they first"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1440.42,"endTime":1443.63,"body":"were conceived of they had a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1443.63,"endTime":1446.57,"body":"little bit poor intentions. But"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1443.63,"endTime":1446.57,"body":"I think now it's kind of just"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1446.57,"endTime":1449.78,"body":"like, people just have owner"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1446.57,"endTime":1449.78,"body":"occupancy requirements, because"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1450.08,"endTime":1454.28,"body":"they require an occupancy. We"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1450.08,"endTime":1454.28,"body":"don't know why. It's like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1454.31,"endTime":1457.43,"body":"bureaucrats don't think about"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1454.31,"endTime":1457.43,"body":"it. They don't think to question"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1457.43,"endTime":1461.39,"body":"it. And it's just what they"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1457.43,"endTime":1461.39,"body":"have. But they don't know. Like,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1461.39,"endTime":1463.73,"body":"actually, I did a lot of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1461.39,"endTime":1463.73,"body":"research on what the history of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1463.73,"endTime":1466.49,"body":"these regulations were for. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1463.73,"endTime":1466.49,"body":"I couldn't track it down. Like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1466.49,"endTime":1469.79,"body":"there's no answer, but I can"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1466.49,"endTime":1469.79,"body":"surmise what they might have"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1469.79,"endTime":1474.14,"body":"been about. It's probably, you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1469.79,"endTime":1474.14,"body":"know, some it's probably some"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1474.14,"endTime":1477.95,"body":"perception of like, we don't"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1474.14,"endTime":1477.95,"body":"want renters like we don't like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1477.95,"endTime":1481.82,"body":"renters. And so we don't want"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1477.95,"endTime":1481.82,"body":"renters in our, in our in ours."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1481.88,"endTime":1486.59,"body":"Right. Sacred single family"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1481.88,"endTime":1486.59,"body":"zone. So me if I was to guess"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1486.59,"endTime":1490.01,"body":"that would probably be the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1486.59,"endTime":1490.01,"body":"precipitating motivation. But"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1490.01,"endTime":1493.43,"body":"that's not really a justifiable"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1490.01,"endTime":1493.43,"body":"motivation, if you believe in,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1493.46,"endTime":1496.4,"body":"you know, providing affordable"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1493.46,"endTime":1496.4,"body":"housing and stuff like that,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1496.4,"endTime":1499.91,"body":"that we say we want. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1496.4,"endTime":1499.91,"body":"totally."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1500.17,"endTime":1504.58,"body":"That's a great"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1500.17,"endTime":1504.58,"body":"question and a great answer. So,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1505.15,"endTime":1508.48,"body":"I think now that now that we've"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1505.15,"endTime":1508.48,"body":"talked about ADUs a bit, I feel"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1508.48,"endTime":1512.5,"body":"like now we can come back to you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1508.48,"endTime":1512.5,"body":"know what, what is happening in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1512.5,"endTime":1517.96,"body":"Portland and the recent recent"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1512.5,"endTime":1517.96,"body":"changes that are applying to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1517.96,"endTime":1520.03,"body":"tiny houses on wheels and RVs?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1521.14,"endTime":1523.3,"body":"Yeah, let's talk"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1521.14,"endTime":1523.3,"body":"about it. Super cool."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1524.83,"endTime":1529.36,"body":"Yeah. Maybe when"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1524.83,"endTime":1529.36,"body":"did this happen? What happened?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1529.39,"endTime":1531.55,"body":"How were you involved? anywhere"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1529.39,"endTime":1531.55,"body":"you want to go with"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1531.55,"endTime":1534.4,"body":"it? Oh, sure. So"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1531.55,"endTime":1534.4,"body":"I've been involved with this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1534.43,"endTime":1538.9,"body":"idea for a long time, like since"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1534.43,"endTime":1538.9,"body":"I opened Caravan really in 2013,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1539.26,"endTime":1542.17,"body":"which is a tiny house hotel. So"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1539.26,"endTime":1542.17,"body":"those are like Tiny Homes on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1542.17,"endTime":1546.22,"body":"wheels on a commercial property."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1542.17,"endTime":1546.22,"body":"And what the things I'm most"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1546.22,"endTime":1549.4,"body":"proud about with Caravan are"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1546.22,"endTime":1549.4,"body":"that it was like the first place"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1549.4,"endTime":1552.13,"body":"where tiny house on wheels were"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1549.4,"endTime":1552.13,"body":"legally connected the sewer,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1552.88,"endTime":1555.52,"body":"anywhere that I knew of. And it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1552.88,"endTime":1555.52,"body":"was the first place where people"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1555.52,"endTime":1558.43,"body":"could like go stay in a tiny"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1555.52,"endTime":1558.43,"body":"house, because there are other"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1558.43,"endTime":1561.55,"body":"ways are like under the radar."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1558.43,"endTime":1561.55,"body":"But we figured out how to make"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1561.55,"endTime":1563.26,"body":"them like publicly available."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1563.53,"endTime":1566.98,"body":"So in any case, so we're working"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1563.53,"endTime":1566.98,"body":"on this, in that in that kind of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1566.98,"endTime":1571.12,"body":"awareness building in like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1566.98,"endTime":1571.12,"body":"building code specific way and a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1571.12,"endTime":1575.05,"body":"lot for for a long time. But now"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1571.12,"endTime":1575.05,"body":"we've gotten a new code passed"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1575.56,"endTime":1579.61,"body":"in Portland that as of August 1"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1575.56,"endTime":1579.61,"body":"2021, that allows for the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1579.61,"endTime":1582.94,"body":"habitation of a mobile dwelling"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1579.61,"endTime":1582.94,"body":"that is in a tiny house on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1582.94,"endTime":1588.1,"body":"wheels or an RV, any form of an"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1582.94,"endTime":1588.1,"body":"RV basically, to be lived in on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1588.1,"endTime":1591.91,"body":"a residential property. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1588.1,"endTime":1591.91,"body":"importantly, it's not classified"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1591.91,"endTime":1596.17,"body":"as ADU that is you can have an"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1591.91,"endTime":1596.17,"body":"ADU and also have this Wow, you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1596.17,"endTime":1598.96,"body":"can you can let you have multi"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1596.17,"endTime":1598.96,"body":"you can have a duplex triplex or"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1598.96,"endTime":1602.71,"body":"four Plex You can also have this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1598.96,"endTime":1602.71,"body":"on top of that. So it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1602.74,"endTime":1605.26,"body":"count as like a housing"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1602.74,"endTime":1605.26,"body":"allocation number one, number"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1605.26,"endTime":1610.06,"body":"two, you don't have to meet any"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1605.26,"endTime":1610.06,"body":"of these and see 190 point five"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1610.09,"endTime":1614.38,"body":"standards or thta certification"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1610.09,"endTime":1614.38,"body":"standards. So it allows for the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1614.38,"endTime":1619.15,"body":"DIY DIYers out there to build"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1614.38,"endTime":1619.15,"body":"something and live in it. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1619.39,"endTime":1622.15,"body":"they won't be required to meet"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1619.39,"endTime":1622.15,"body":"any standards, which reduces the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1622.15,"endTime":1626.47,"body":"cost of construction. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1622.15,"endTime":1626.47,"body":"lastly, you're not required to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1626.5,"endTime":1628.84,"body":"what you're supposed to put in a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1626.5,"endTime":1628.84,"body":"water, sewer and electrical"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1628.84,"endTime":1632.98,"body":"connection. But if you don't"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1628.84,"endTime":1632.98,"body":"have plumbing serving your your"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1632.98,"endTime":1634.84,"body":"mobile dwelling that is you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1632.98,"endTime":1634.84,"body":"don't have a kitchen or"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1634.84,"endTime":1637.33,"body":"bathroom. The presumption is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1634.84,"endTime":1637.33,"body":"that you can use the primary"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1637.33,"endTime":1640.93,"body":"house. And you don't have to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1637.33,"endTime":1640.93,"body":"provide as a homeowner, you're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1640.93,"endTime":1644.41,"body":"not to provide a legal sewer, or"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1640.93,"endTime":1644.41,"body":"water connection to the tiny"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1644.41,"endTime":1646.93,"body":"house, which again, reduces the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1644.41,"endTime":1646.93,"body":"cost a lot."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1646.93,"endTime":1650.29,"body":"So again, this is be treating it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1646.93,"endTime":1650.29,"body":"like a detached bedroom, that is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1650.32,"endTime":1653.11,"body":"not one with the plumbing in it."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1650.32,"endTime":1653.11,"body":"So we're also gonna allow that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1653.11,"endTime":1657.4,"body":"to happen in a detached, tiny"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1653.11,"endTime":1657.4,"body":"house on wheels. And so it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1657.4,"endTime":1661.78,"body":"provides a lot of flexibility,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1657.4,"endTime":1661.78,"body":"it's a pretty easy standard to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1661.84,"endTime":1665.74,"body":"meet as far as the development"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1661.84,"endTime":1665.74,"body":"standards. And there's already"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1665.74,"endTime":1668.92,"body":"in fact, a lot of people living"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1665.74,"endTime":1668.92,"body":"in RVs and tiny houses in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1668.92,"endTime":1672.19,"body":"Portland has kind of been, you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1668.92,"endTime":1672.19,"body":"know, colloquially understood as"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1672.19,"endTime":1675.97,"body":"like a tiny house friendly place"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1672.19,"endTime":1675.97,"body":"for a long time. But it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1675.97,"endTime":1677.74,"body":"really that different than other"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1675.97,"endTime":1677.74,"body":"places, just that a lot of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1677.74,"endTime":1681.22,"body":"people lived here with tiny"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1677.74,"endTime":1681.22,"body":"houses. But now it's officially"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1681.22,"endTime":1685.36,"body":"a tiny house friendly place. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1681.22,"endTime":1685.36,"body":"it's different than the other"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1685.36,"endTime":1687.31,"body":"approaches that have been used"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1685.36,"endTime":1687.31,"body":"elsewhere in the country that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1687.4,"endTime":1691.15,"body":"limit tiny houses to like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1687.4,"endTime":1691.15,"body":"certain standards and certain"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1691.18,"endTime":1693.13,"body":"tie down requirements and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1691.18,"endTime":1693.13,"body":"certain utility connection"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1693.13,"endTime":1695.53,"body":"requirements and all the stuff"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1693.13,"endTime":1695.53,"body":"that makes them more difficult,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1695.53,"endTime":1696.7,"body":"more expensive to build."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1697.19,"endTime":1701.39,"body":"Yeah, and it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1697.19,"endTime":1701.39,"body":"it's pleasantly surprising that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1701.42,"endTime":1706.85,"body":"that you were able to or whoever"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1701.42,"endTime":1706.85,"body":"advocated for this was able to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1707.42,"endTime":1711.71,"body":"get it approved without those"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1707.42,"endTime":1711.71,"body":"Anssi standards, because it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1711.71,"endTime":1715.37,"body":"seems like most other cities are"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1711.71,"endTime":1715.37,"body":"like, Alright, well allow"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1715.58,"endTime":1720.29,"body":"movable tiny houses, but like"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1715.58,"endTime":1720.29,"body":"they have to have been built to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1720.32,"endTime":1725.18,"body":"like the standards and certified"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1720.32,"endTime":1725.18,"body":"and we need like, basically kind"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1725.18,"endTime":1731.06,"body":"of locks out any tiny houses"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1725.18,"endTime":1731.06,"body":"that were built before 2018 or"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1731.06,"endTime":1737.18,"body":"19. Right or even now, and also"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1731.06,"endTime":1737.18,"body":"just locks out any kind of DIY."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1738.14,"endTime":1741.95,"body":"Exactly. And, and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1738.14,"endTime":1741.95,"body":"it makes this form of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1741.98,"endTime":1745.55,"body":"construction, expensive, right."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1741.98,"endTime":1745.55,"body":"And so for actually doing this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1745.55,"endTime":1748.7,"body":"to solve affordable housing,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1745.55,"endTime":1748.7,"body":"which again, is like what"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1748.7,"endTime":1752.66,"body":"everybody says they want, then"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1748.7,"endTime":1752.66,"body":"we have to start pushing the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1752.66,"endTime":1754.97,"body":"envelope and thinking outside"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1752.66,"endTime":1754.97,"body":"the box and doing stuff that's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1754.97,"endTime":1760.97,"body":"actually innovative. Right. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1754.97,"endTime":1760.97,"body":"so, a IRC, or sorry, an ANSI"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1761.06,"endTime":1764.48,"body":"rated tiny house is gonna cost"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1761.06,"endTime":1764.48,"body":"more because it's done by"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1764.48,"endTime":1769.13,"body":"professionals in professional"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1764.48,"endTime":1769.13,"body":"settings with licensed Gee, you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1769.13,"endTime":1771.62,"body":"know, plumbers and electricians"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1769.13,"endTime":1771.62,"body":"and all the rest, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1771.62,"endTime":1775.85,"body":"cost more. And I get there's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1771.62,"endTime":1775.85,"body":"value in that. I'm not trying to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1775.85,"endTime":1778.61,"body":"say it's not value in it. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1775.85,"endTime":1778.61,"body":"big fan of advanced construction"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1778.61,"endTime":1782.75,"body":"methods, etc. But if our goal is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1778.61,"endTime":1782.75,"body":"to solve affordable housing,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1782.99,"endTime":1786.08,"body":"which everybody says it is, then"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1782.99,"endTime":1786.08,"body":"we have to figure out how to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1786.14,"endTime":1790.16,"body":"solve affordable housing. And so"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1786.14,"endTime":1790.16,"body":"that is there's a big part of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1790.16,"endTime":1793.46,"body":"that it's going to dramatically"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1790.16,"endTime":1793.46,"body":"reduce the cost. And if you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1793.46,"endTime":1797.03,"body":"allow for RVs Hey, it ain't a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1793.46,"endTime":1797.03,"body":"beautiful thing to live in. But"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1797.03,"endTime":1798.98,"body":"it's a hell of a lot cheaper"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1797.03,"endTime":1798.98,"body":"than ADU which is a hell of a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1798.98,"endTime":1799.94,"body":"lot cheaper than a house."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1800.57,"endTime":1806.09,"body":"Right, right. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1800.57,"endTime":1806.09,"body":"that RVs ostensibly were built"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1806.09,"endTime":1810.02,"body":"to a standard if they were"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1806.09,"endTime":1810.02,"body":"manufactured RV. Yeah, certainly"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1810.02,"endTime":1812.42,"body":"not the standard that a house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1810.02,"endTime":1812.42,"body":"would be built to. But a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1812.42,"endTime":1813.56,"body":"standard nonetheless."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1813.71,"endTime":1815.9,"body":"Yeah, yeah. So if"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1813.71,"endTime":1815.9,"body":"you're really invested in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1815.9,"endTime":1819.02,"body":"standards, I guess you could"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1815.9,"endTime":1819.02,"body":"say, below to an RV standard,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1819.02,"endTime":1821.48,"body":"but I mean, then you're gonna,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1819.02,"endTime":1821.48,"body":"you're not allowing for a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1821.48,"endTime":1824.18,"body":"beautiful, cute, tiny house on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1821.48,"endTime":1824.18,"body":"wheels. But you are going to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1824.18,"endTime":1826.94,"body":"allow for somebody to live in a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1824.18,"endTime":1826.94,"body":"crappy looking formaldehyde"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1826.94,"endTime":1828.44,"body":"plastic shell. So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1828.45,"endTime":1832.17,"body":"how do you how do"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1828.45,"endTime":1832.17,"body":"you make the safety trade off?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1832.2,"endTime":1836.07,"body":"Or, you know, the perceived"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1832.2,"endTime":1836.07,"body":"safety trade off that, okay? If"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1836.07,"endTime":1838.92,"body":"they're not being built to these"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1836.07,"endTime":1838.92,"body":"ANSI standards, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1839.1,"endTime":1842.64,"body":"there's going to be people dying"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1839.1,"endTime":1842.64,"body":"and fires who can't get out of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1842.64,"endTime":1846.3,"body":"the loft, there's going to be"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1842.64,"endTime":1846.3,"body":"air quality issues from, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1846.3,"endTime":1849.27,"body":"know, mold growing in these"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1846.3,"endTime":1849.27,"body":"houses. I mean, I know that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1849.27,"endTime":1852.9,"body":"these are rare scenarios. But"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1849.27,"endTime":1852.9,"body":"you know, I'm sure something"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1852.9,"endTime":1856.44,"body":"like this came up at some"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1852.9,"endTime":1856.44,"body":"planning meeting somewhere."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1857.72,"endTime":1861.92,"body":"I'm sure that that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1857.72,"endTime":1861.92,"body":"is the rational kind of response"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1861.92,"endTime":1864.98,"body":"that a lot of people have, I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1861.92,"endTime":1864.98,"body":"would just question, I would"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1864.98,"endTime":1870.86,"body":"say, find me any statistically"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1864.98,"endTime":1870.86,"body":"valid studies that actually show"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1870.86,"endTime":1876.32,"body":"what you're saying here. In"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1870.86,"endTime":1876.32,"body":"reality, for example, I would"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1876.32,"endTime":1880.43,"body":"say like, Are there Is it true"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1876.32,"endTime":1880.43,"body":"that a Can we say for"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1880.43,"endTime":1885.14,"body":"authoritatively that RVs are"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1880.43,"endTime":1885.14,"body":"more safe than DIY tiny house on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1885.14,"endTime":1889.52,"body":"wheels? I don't know. I had"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1885.14,"endTime":1889.52,"body":"people I have. I've had over"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1889.52,"endTime":1894.26,"body":"20,000 guests stay at caravan,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1889.52,"endTime":1894.26,"body":"the tiny house hotels since"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1894.26,"endTime":1899.27,"body":"we've been open. Not a single"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1894.26,"endTime":1899.27,"body":"injury that entire time. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1899.3,"endTime":1902.45,"body":"nothing, nothing bad ever"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1899.3,"endTime":1902.45,"body":"happened. Tiny, the tiny houses,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1902.48,"endTime":1906.23,"body":"none of them were built any"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1902.48,"endTime":1906.23,"body":"standards? Probably not even by"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1906.32,"endTime":1911.81,"body":"professional builders, in many"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1906.32,"endTime":1911.81,"body":"cases. RVs definitely. I've seen"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1911.81,"endTime":1915.14,"body":"RV fires and all this, even"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1911.81,"endTime":1915.14,"body":"though they're certified. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1915.32,"endTime":1918.38,"body":"So like, maybe it's just the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1915.32,"endTime":1918.38,"body":"fact we don't have combustible"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1918.38,"endTime":1921.23,"body":"appliances in our Tiny Homes? I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1918.38,"endTime":1921.23,"body":"don't know, I don't have all the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1921.23,"endTime":1924.56,"body":"answers to stuff. All I know is,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1921.23,"endTime":1924.56,"body":"we should be able to back up our"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1924.56,"endTime":1927.53,"body":"theories with actual facts and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1924.56,"endTime":1927.53,"body":"not just assumptions that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1927.89,"endTime":1931.67,"body":"somehow meeting some arbitrary"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1927.89,"endTime":1931.67,"body":"standard that somebody thinks is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1931.67,"endTime":1934.76,"body":"good on some committee is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1931.67,"endTime":1934.76,"body":"somehow going to result in more"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1934.76,"endTime":1935.54,"body":"life safety."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1936.05,"endTime":1941.21,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1936.05,"endTime":1941.21,"body":"totally. Totally. So my"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1941.21,"endTime":1944.87,"body":"experience in the tiny house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1941.21,"endTime":1944.87,"body":"world has been that the tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1944.87,"endTime":1948.89,"body":"house movement types are very"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1944.87,"endTime":1948.89,"body":"resistant to being lumped in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1948.89,"endTime":1954.17,"body":"with RV's, because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1948.89,"endTime":1954.17,"body":"probably for aesthetic reasons."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1955.01,"endTime":1958.76,"body":"And also, the fact that RV's are"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1955.01,"endTime":1958.76,"body":"it's right there in the name"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1958.76,"endTime":1961.7,"body":"recreational vehicles. And so"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1958.76,"endTime":1961.7,"body":"it's been this struggle to say"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1961.7,"endTime":1965.66,"body":"like, no, even though our tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1961.7,"endTime":1965.66,"body":"home has wheels, it's not an RV"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1965.66,"endTime":1970.85,"body":"it's a house. Do you think that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1965.66,"endTime":1970.85,"body":"there's, do you think that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1970.85,"endTime":1975.83,"body":"there's any downside to kind of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1970.85,"endTime":1975.83,"body":"the Portland regulations that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1975.83,"endTime":1980.21,"body":"kind of lumped movable tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1975.83,"endTime":1980.21,"body":"houses and RVs just together?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1980.9,"endTime":1982.88,"body":"You know, it's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1980.9,"endTime":1982.88,"body":"really getting into really"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1982.91,"endTime":1987.14,"body":"technocratic details, so I can"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1982.91,"endTime":1987.14,"body":"answer the question, but I don't"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1987.14,"endTime":1991.01,"body":"think it really matters that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1987.14,"endTime":1991.01,"body":"much. I think these nomenclature"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1991.01,"endTime":1994.52,"body":"is gonna change. It's not called"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1991.01,"endTime":1994.52,"body":"tiny houses on wheels forever,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1994.52,"endTime":1997.37,"body":"it's not gonna call movable tiny"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1994.52,"endTime":1997.37,"body":"houses forever. Yeah, it's gonna"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1997.37,"endTime":1998.93,"body":"be called something out, it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1997.37,"endTime":1998.93,"body":"might be able to be called"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1998.93,"endTime":2001.51,"body":"mobile You know, it'ss one day,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":1998.93,"endTime":2001.51,"body":"these names will change,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2001.54,"endTime":2005.44,"body":"definitions will change. So"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2001.54,"endTime":2005.44,"body":"don't get too stuck on the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2005.44,"endTime":2009.16,"body":"details of how we're defining it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2005.44,"endTime":2009.16,"body":"in 2021, or whatever this is,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2009.16,"endTime":2011.83,"body":"because it wasn't that way in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2009.16,"endTime":2011.83,"body":"2015. And it won't be that way"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2011.83,"endTime":2012.76,"body":"in 2025."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2013.42,"endTime":2017.89,"body":"But in Oregon, as long with 48"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2013.42,"endTime":2017.89,"body":"other states in the United"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2017.89,"endTime":2020.02,"body":"States, I don't know which"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2017.89,"endTime":2020.02,"body":"states still does it. But 49"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2020.02,"endTime":2026.05,"body":"states no longer regulate RVs as"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2020.02,"endTime":2026.05,"body":"a state entity, they no longer"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2026.05,"endTime":2032.68,"body":"say, we require that RVs are"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2026.05,"endTime":2032.68,"body":"built to RVIA or tha standards"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2032.68,"endTime":2035.77,"body":"or whatever it is, or not THIA"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2032.68,"endTime":2035.77,"body":"whatever it is, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2035.77,"endTime":2041.38,"body":"that. So states have kind of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2035.77,"endTime":2041.38,"body":"like, forgotten their authority"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2041.38,"endTime":2045.1,"body":"of overseeing the construction"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2041.38,"endTime":2045.1,"body":"standards for RV. So I think"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2045.1,"endTime":2049.0,"body":"there might be some like opening"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2045.1,"endTime":2049.0,"body":"there for calling tiny houses on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2049.0,"endTime":2052.75,"body":"wheels are these because RVs are"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2049.0,"endTime":2052.75,"body":"not being acquired to meet any"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2052.75,"endTime":2056.44,"body":"standard by the state anyway, so"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2052.75,"endTime":2056.44,"body":"jurisdictions can still require"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2056.44,"endTime":2058.51,"body":"that if they want, but they"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2056.44,"endTime":2058.51,"body":"don't have to. And so we"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2058.51,"endTime":2061.87,"body":"basically got Portland to follow"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2058.51,"endTime":2061.87,"body":"suit of what Oregon and done and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2061.87,"endTime":2065.41,"body":"say, Hey, Oregon no longer"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2061.87,"endTime":2065.41,"body":"requires are these meet any"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2065.41,"endTime":2070.9,"body":"statewide standard, it's up to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2065.41,"endTime":2070.9,"body":"the buyer of the RV to see"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2070.9,"endTime":2072.97,"body":"whether they want it to be"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2070.9,"endTime":2072.97,"body":"certified to a certain scene or"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2072.97,"endTime":2075.4,"body":"not. It's not up to the state"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2072.97,"endTime":2075.4,"body":"anymore. We don't care. We're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2075.43,"endTime":2076.24,"body":"out of this game."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2076.72,"endTime":2077.17,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2077.53,"endTime":2079.69,"body":"If you want to tow"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2077.53,"endTime":2079.69,"body":"it down the road, you have to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2079.69,"endTime":2082.93,"body":"get a tow tag like a license"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2079.69,"endTime":2082.93,"body":"plate on it, but that's not"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2082.93,"endTime":2085.33,"body":"really a building code center."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2082.93,"endTime":2085.33,"body":"That's just like going to tow it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2085.33,"endTime":2089.41,"body":"down the road. So we said to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2085.33,"endTime":2089.41,"body":"Portland, hey, you know, Oregon,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2089.65,"endTime":2092.23,"body":"Oregon isn't requiring this so"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2089.65,"endTime":2092.23,"body":"Portland, you guys shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2092.23,"endTime":2094.48,"body":"require it either. And if people"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2092.23,"endTime":2094.48,"body":"want to tow down the road, they"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2094.48,"endTime":2098.65,"body":"can get a temporary tow plate"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2094.48,"endTime":2098.65,"body":"from the DMV. And we're good. We"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2098.65,"endTime":2103.06,"body":"don't need your  involvement in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2098.65,"endTime":2103.06,"body":"the regulation of these, you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2103.06,"endTime":2106.69,"body":"know, mobile dwellings where"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2103.06,"endTime":2106.69,"body":"you're off the hook city, and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2106.69,"endTime":2108.31,"body":"that's the approach they"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2106.69,"endTime":2108.31,"body":"adopted."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2109.33,"endTime":2113.86,"body":"Cool. I'm sure,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2109.33,"endTime":2113.86,"body":"you know, there's so much"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2113.86,"endTime":2118.96,"body":"friction in, in government,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2113.86,"endTime":2118.96,"body":"these processes that you have to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2118.96,"endTime":2122.8,"body":"go to, okay, you have to talk to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2118.96,"endTime":2122.8,"body":"the environmental review board,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2122.8,"endTime":2125.44,"body":"you have to talk to zoning, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2122.8,"endTime":2125.44,"body":"have to talk to his planning,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2125.44,"endTime":2128.2,"body":"you have to get the building,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2125.44,"endTime":2128.2,"body":"there's like so many different"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2128.2,"endTime":2131.11,"body":"offices to visit. And I feel"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2128.2,"endTime":2131.11,"body":"like anytime you can reduce the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2131.11,"endTime":2134.23,"body":"friction there, it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2131.11,"endTime":2134.23,"body":"faster and easier to build"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2134.65,"endTime":2135.91,"body":"something like this."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2136.05,"endTime":2138.24,"body":"We are we're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2136.05,"endTime":2138.24,"body":"putting in. Okay, so I'm going"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2138.24,"endTime":2141.72,"body":"to tip off my next question that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2138.24,"endTime":2141.72,"body":"you didn't ask, but I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2141.72,"endTime":2145.53,"body":"get to, which is I'm starting a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2141.72,"endTime":2145.53,"body":"new company. Now were you going"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2145.53,"endTime":2146.49,"body":"to gonna ask about that?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2146.55,"endTime":2149.7,"body":"I am gonna ask,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2146.55,"endTime":2149.7,"body":"but I was about to, so do it."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2149.91,"endTime":2151.71,"body":"Okay, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2149.91,"endTime":2151.71,"body":"starting this new company called"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2151.71,"endTime":2155.88,"body":"Tiny Hookups, which is with two"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2151.71,"endTime":2155.88,"body":"other people. And we're serving"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2155.88,"endTime":2158.73,"body":"as general contractors putting"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2155.88,"endTime":2158.73,"body":"in infrastructure and people's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2158.73,"endTime":2161.4,"body":"residential properties under"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2158.73,"endTime":2161.4,"body":"this new code that allows for"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2161.91,"endTime":2165.27,"body":"the habitation of mobile"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2161.91,"endTime":2165.27,"body":"dwellings. And so, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2165.27,"endTime":2169.08,"body":"this case, on a really expensive"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2165.27,"endTime":2169.08,"body":"complicated project, we are"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2169.08,"endTime":2170.94,"body":"going to put in the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2169.08,"endTime":2170.94,"body":"infrastructure, water, sewer,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2170.94,"endTime":2173.82,"body":"electrical connections, our"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2170.94,"endTime":2173.82,"body":"first project, it's gonna cost"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2173.82,"endTime":2179.34,"body":"like $15,000 bucks is expensive."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2173.82,"endTime":2179.34,"body":"This is not cheap. 15 this one"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2180.51,"endTime":2184.62,"body":"5000 I think it's expensive,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2180.51,"endTime":2184.62,"body":"like relatively speaking for,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2184.65,"endTime":2187.86,"body":"but but it's just a really"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2184.65,"endTime":2187.86,"body":"complicated project. And it's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2187.86,"endTime":2191.19,"body":"gonna take us like two months,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2187.86,"endTime":2191.19,"body":"which is a really long time in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2191.19,"endTime":2194.79,"body":"the tiny house is gonna be"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2191.19,"endTime":2194.79,"body":"delivered later this month. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2194.82,"endTime":2197.34,"body":"she's probably started the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2194.82,"endTime":2197.34,"body":"process like, I don't know how"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2197.34,"endTime":2199.65,"body":"many months ago, but it's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2197.34,"endTime":2199.65,"body":"actually being shipped over from"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2199.65,"endTime":2202.98,"body":"the east coast. In any case,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2199.65,"endTime":2202.98,"body":"this whole project with the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2202.98,"endTime":2205.32,"body":"house is going to cost her like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2202.98,"endTime":2205.32,"body":"on it's going to be expensive,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2205.32,"endTime":2209.1,"body":"like $115,000 gonna take like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2205.32,"endTime":2209.1,"body":"six months. And that is like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2209.1,"endTime":2212.01,"body":"half the cost of the least"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2209.1,"endTime":2212.01,"body":"expensive ADU you can do right"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2212.01,"endTime":2215.16,"body":"now. And that's a really"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2212.01,"endTime":2215.16,"body":"complicated project. Wow. You"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2215.16,"endTime":2218.37,"body":"could and like, you could do"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2215.16,"endTime":2218.37,"body":"infrastructure on some"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2218.37,"endTime":2223.2,"body":"properties for like, 5k 10k and"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2218.37,"endTime":2223.2,"body":"get a tiny house much quicker"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2223.2,"endTime":2227.25,"body":"than six months, and for much"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2223.2,"endTime":2227.25,"body":"less than 100,000. So I mean,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2227.28,"endTime":2230.34,"body":"that and that's like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2227.28,"endTime":2230.34,"body":"it's, it's like, this is an"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2230.34,"endTime":2234.12,"body":"expensive, really difficult one,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2230.34,"endTime":2234.12,"body":"it's still half the cost of the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2234.12,"endTime":2236.79,"body":"least expensive at noon,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2234.12,"endTime":2236.79,"body":"Portland. So I think there's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2236.79,"endTime":2241.02,"body":"just a lot of potential for this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2236.79,"endTime":2241.02,"body":"form of like, formalizing this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2241.05,"endTime":2245.34,"body":"type of construction or"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2241.05,"endTime":2245.34,"body":"development. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2245.42,"endTime":2248.69,"body":"yeah. So I love"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2245.42,"endTime":2248.69,"body":"the name Tiny Hookups, it's a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2248.69,"endTime":2253.79,"body":"really awesome idea. To just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2248.69,"endTime":2253.79,"body":"kind of be able to one stop shop"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2253.79,"endTime":2256.79,"body":"company that's going to come and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2253.79,"endTime":2256.79,"body":"put any infrastructure, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2256.79,"endTime":2259.13,"body":"assuming that you're going to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2256.79,"endTime":2259.13,"body":"get the approvals needed from"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2259.13,"endTime":2263.42,"body":"the city and yeah, figure that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2259.13,"endTime":2263.42,"body":"all out. What in Portland at"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2263.42,"endTime":2267.56,"body":"least, like what do you have to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2263.42,"endTime":2267.56,"body":"put down? For a tiny house on"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2267.56,"endTime":2271.19,"body":"wheels in a backyard? You have"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2267.56,"endTime":2271.19,"body":"to pour like a concrete slab?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2271.22,"endTime":2273.77,"body":"Does it just gravel? Like run me"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2271.22,"endTime":2273.77,"body":"through what kind of what you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2273.77,"endTime":2274.31,"body":"have to do?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2274.64,"endTime":2276.83,"body":"Well, this is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2274.64,"endTime":2276.83,"body":"great, because like, this is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2276.83,"endTime":2279.59,"body":"literally we're doing our first"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2276.83,"endTime":2279.59,"body":"job as a general contractor."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2279.59,"endTime":2281.99,"body":"We're the only company doing it,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2279.59,"endTime":2281.99,"body":"and no other cities in this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2281.99,"endTime":2286.4,"body":"country. So you're getting be"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2281.99,"endTime":2286.4,"body":"the first first one is the very"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2286.4,"endTime":2289.28,"body":"first first like answer to this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2286.4,"endTime":2289.28,"body":"question, we're going to have to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2289.28,"endTime":2293.78,"body":"do a three by three foot sloped"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2289.28,"endTime":2293.78,"body":"concrete pad towards a sewer"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2293.78,"endTime":2296.63,"body":"clean out, which is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2293.78,"endTime":2296.63,"body":"abs sewer clean out, which is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2296.63,"endTime":2300.38,"body":"going to tie into the primary"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2296.63,"endTime":2300.38,"body":"house, it's a four inch or three"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2300.38,"endTime":2303.2,"body":"inch sewer clean out, then we"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2300.38,"endTime":2303.2,"body":"have to put a foot operated"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2303.2,"endTime":2306.92,"body":"latch on top of the sewer clean"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2303.2,"endTime":2306.92,"body":"out so that you can extensively"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2306.92,"endTime":2311.81,"body":"This is adopting the RV, like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2306.92,"endTime":2311.81,"body":"sewer dump standards so that you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2312.05,"endTime":2315.62,"body":"could touch the dump station to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2312.05,"endTime":2315.62,"body":"open up the foot operated latch"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2315.62,"endTime":2319.46,"body":"to dump in a flexible duct from"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2315.62,"endTime":2319.46,"body":"your RV to this ABS sewer"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2319.46,"endTime":2321.86,"body":"connection without touching it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2319.46,"endTime":2321.86,"body":"with your hands. And if there's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2321.86,"endTime":2324.95,"body":"God forbid spillover of crap,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2321.86,"endTime":2324.95,"body":"then it would end up on this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2324.95,"endTime":2328.4,"body":"three by three foot concrete pad"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2324.95,"endTime":2328.4,"body":"which is sloped towards the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2328.4,"endTime":2330.41,"body":"sewer drain. So that's the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2328.4,"endTime":2330.41,"body":"sewer."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2330.62,"endTime":2330.95,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2331.16,"endTime":2334.13,"body":"The water, you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2331.16,"endTime":2334.13,"body":"just use any hose connection on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2334.13,"endTime":2338.27,"body":"your property, we'll put in a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2334.13,"endTime":2338.27,"body":"new dedicated spigot using Pex"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2338.93,"endTime":2341.39,"body":"and then the sewer connection or"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2338.93,"endTime":2341.39,"body":"sorry, the electrical"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2341.39,"endTime":2344.72,"body":"connection, you got to do a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2341.39,"endTime":2344.72,"body":"dedicated 30 amp or a 50 amp"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2344.9,"endTime":2348.5,"body":"electrical circuit, which is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2344.9,"endTime":2348.5,"body":"going to look like an RV type of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2348.53,"endTime":2351.77,"body":"outlet, right? Like you would"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2348.53,"endTime":2351.77,"body":"see at an RV park. And then as"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2351.77,"endTime":2356.15,"body":"far as the parking pad, you can"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2351.77,"endTime":2356.15,"body":"park on grass, you can park on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2356.24,"endTime":2359.15,"body":"asphalt, you can park on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2356.24,"endTime":2359.15,"body":"concrete, you can park on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2359.15,"endTime":2361.4,"body":"gravel, you can park on whatever"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2359.15,"endTime":2361.4,"body":"you want it from a best"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2361.4,"endTime":2364.07,"body":"practices point of view, it's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2361.4,"endTime":2364.07,"body":"probably better to park on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2364.07,"endTime":2366.95,"body":"gravel or a hard surface at"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2364.07,"endTime":2366.95,"body":"least where you're going to put"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2366.95,"endTime":2369.92,"body":"the points of contact with the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2366.95,"endTime":2369.92,"body":"four corners of the tiny house."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2369.92,"endTime":2373.7,"body":"So we're gonna go with gravel"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2369.92,"endTime":2373.7,"body":"for the most part. But you know,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2373.7,"endTime":2377.36,"body":"it all depends on the site."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2373.7,"endTime":2377.36,"body":"Nice. Nice."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2377.81,"endTime":2383.12,"body":"That's so just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2377.81,"endTime":2383.12,"body":"catching up on something you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2383.12,"endTime":2386.75,"body":"said a little while ago. So the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2383.12,"endTime":2386.75,"body":"cheapest ADU you can do in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2386.75,"endTime":2389.12,"body":"Portland is is $250,000"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2389.27,"endTime":2393.8,"body":"a year I'd say"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2389.27,"endTime":2393.8,"body":"like if you did a custom 400"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2393.8,"endTime":2397.58,"body":"square foot ADU these days which"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2393.8,"endTime":2397.58,"body":"is on the small side. 350 400"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2397.58,"endTime":2401.54,"body":"square feet. That's going to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2397.58,"endTime":2401.54,"body":"come in at 225 250 based on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2401.87,"endTime":2405.53,"body":"construction costs currently,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2401.87,"endTime":2405.53,"body":"yeah, you can get some less"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2405.53,"endTime":2408.29,"body":"expensive to use. Don't get me"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2405.53,"endTime":2408.29,"body":"wrong, but like, if you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2408.29,"endTime":2413.6,"body":"go for the custom, standard kind"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2408.29,"endTime":2413.6,"body":"of product that will get you can"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2413.6,"endTime":2417.89,"body":"get some for like 125 150. But"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2413.6,"endTime":2417.89,"body":"like, those are like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2417.89,"endTime":2419.51,"body":"manufactured homes, basically."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2419.84,"endTime":2423.77,"body":"Yeah. Wow. Well,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2419.84,"endTime":2423.77,"body":"yeah. So that back to Tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2423.77,"endTime":2427.43,"body":"Hookups. Very cool. Do you have"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2423.77,"endTime":2427.43,"body":"more more clients more projects"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2427.43,"endTime":2428.06,"body":"in the works?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2428.27,"endTime":2430.94,"body":"Yeah, we have"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2428.27,"endTime":2430.94,"body":"through my ADU consulting"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2430.94,"endTime":2433.19,"body":"business. Now I'm getting a lot"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2430.94,"endTime":2433.19,"body":"more inquiries for tiny houses."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2433.19,"endTime":2437.21,"body":"And we'll so as I'm getting this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2433.19,"endTime":2437.21,"body":"consultations, and just, you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2437.21,"endTime":2440.06,"body":"know, putting our name out there"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2437.21,"endTime":2440.06,"body":"amongst those who want to put in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2440.06,"endTime":2442.64,"body":"the infrastructure saying, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2440.06,"endTime":2442.64,"body":"I will tell you how to do it."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2442.64,"endTime":2444.86,"body":"But if you want to do so if you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2442.64,"endTime":2444.86,"body":"want to do it yourself, it'll be"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2444.86,"endTime":2448.43,"body":"cheaper. But if you want to a GC"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2444.86,"endTime":2448.43,"body":"to do it, we will do it. And so"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2448.43,"endTime":2451.52,"body":"some homeowners are contacting"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2448.43,"endTime":2451.52,"body":"me that way and getting our"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2451.52,"endTime":2453.47,"body":"leads. Very nice."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2454.76,"endTime":2458.72,"body":"Are there any"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2454.76,"endTime":2458.72,"body":"kind of movable housing"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2458.72,"endTime":2461.27,"body":"structures that are excluded"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2458.72,"endTime":2461.27,"body":"from from Portland's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2461.27,"endTime":2466.61,"body":"regulations? Like I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2461.27,"endTime":2466.61,"body":"skoolies, vans? Can those count"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2466.61,"endTime":2467.33,"body":"as RVs?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2467.51,"endTime":2469.79,"body":"I don't think they"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2467.51,"endTime":2469.79,"body":"do. I don't think a school bus"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2469.79,"endTime":2472.16,"body":"counts as an RV. It's a good"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2469.79,"endTime":2472.16,"body":"question. I don't know what the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2472.16,"endTime":2474.71,"body":"technical distinction is like, I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2472.16,"endTime":2474.71,"body":"don't actually don't know the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2474.71,"endTime":2477.83,"body":"answer to this question whether"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2474.71,"endTime":2477.83,"body":"a motorized RV is permissible"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2477.83,"endTime":2482.6,"body":"right now or not in Berlin? I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2477.83,"endTime":2482.6,"body":"know that all non motorized RVs"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2482.6,"endTime":2485.93,"body":"are that I'm not sure about"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2482.6,"endTime":2485.93,"body":"motorized RVs. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2485.93,"endTime":2489.14,"body":"skoolies would not be in school"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2485.93,"endTime":2489.14,"body":"schools will be classified most"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2489.14,"endTime":2494.3,"body":"likely as a as a vehicle not a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2489.14,"endTime":2494.3,"body":"an RV, I'm guessing. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2495.35,"endTime":2497.24,"body":"Was there a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2495.35,"endTime":2497.24,"body":"backlash to this? Or was there"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2497.24,"endTime":2500.36,"body":"were there any people who came"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2497.24,"endTime":2500.36,"body":"to the meetings to fight it?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2500.93,"endTime":2505.13,"body":"No, this is so"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2500.93,"endTime":2505.13,"body":"fascinating. Even. There is like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2505.37,"endTime":2509.06,"body":"2000 public comments about this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2505.37,"endTime":2509.06,"body":"proposed set of regulations that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2509.06,"endTime":2513.62,"body":"included Tiny Homes on wheels,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2509.06,"endTime":2513.62,"body":"and there was probably about 200"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2513.62,"endTime":2515.57,"body":"comments that specifically"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2513.62,"endTime":2515.57,"body":"talked about tiny house on"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2515.57,"endTime":2518.63,"body":"wheels, and RVs, this is all"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2515.57,"endTime":2518.63,"body":"online on the public record, if"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2518.63,"endTime":2521.51,"body":"you want to look at it yourself."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2518.63,"endTime":2521.51,"body":"And they were all positive."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2521.72,"endTime":2526.49,"body":"There was not one negative"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2521.72,"endTime":2526.49,"body":"comment about this proposal in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2526.49,"endTime":2528.26,"body":"the entire public comment"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2526.49,"endTime":2528.26,"body":"period."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2528.94,"endTime":2531.01,"body":"That that blows"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2528.94,"endTime":2531.01,"body":"my mind, because I could"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2531.01,"endTime":2535.78,"body":"definitely see some people"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2531.01,"endTime":2535.78,"body":"getting being like, Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2535.78,"endTime":2539.44,"body":"property values if an RV is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2535.78,"endTime":2539.44,"body":"parked next door kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2540.58,"endTime":2545.23,"body":"Not one negative"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2540.58,"endTime":2545.23,"body":"comment. It is fascinating. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2545.23,"endTime":2549.13,"body":"that goes to show me that there"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2545.23,"endTime":2549.13,"body":"is a huge political opening here"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2549.13,"endTime":2553.69,"body":"for tiny houses on wheels. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2549.13,"endTime":2553.69,"body":"these because of the motivations"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2553.69,"endTime":2555.82,"body":"for people to solve the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2553.69,"endTime":2555.82,"body":"affordable housing crisis. Now"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2555.82,"endTime":2558.85,"body":"you have to do some groundwork"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2555.82,"endTime":2558.85,"body":"with like housing activists to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2558.85,"endTime":2562.63,"body":"get people out to support it."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2558.85,"endTime":2562.63,"body":"But yeah, there wasn't a lot of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2562.63,"endTime":2566.02,"body":"push, push back, despite all"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2562.63,"endTime":2566.02,"body":"this fear that you know, people"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2566.02,"endTime":2568.78,"body":"are like afraid of having Arby's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2566.02,"endTime":2568.78,"body":"next door to them. There wasn't"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2568.78,"endTime":2571.84,"body":"anybody commenting about that."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2568.78,"endTime":2571.84,"body":"Cool. Cool."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2572.83,"endTime":2576.55,"body":"So my last kind"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2572.83,"endTime":2576.55,"body":"of topic that I want to want to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2576.88,"endTime":2580.21,"body":"touch on here is just like how"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2576.88,"endTime":2580.21,"body":"can people you know, somebody"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2580.21,"endTime":2583.99,"body":"listening? Who doesn't have the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2580.21,"endTime":2583.99,"body":"good fortune of living on the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2583.99,"endTime":2586.51,"body":"West Coast? You know, somebody"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2583.99,"endTime":2586.51,"body":"on the East Coast or in the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2586.51,"endTime":2591.07,"body":"middle of the country, in a town"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2586.51,"endTime":2591.07,"body":"that has crappy ad regulations?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2592.24,"endTime":2593.02,"body":"Even advice?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2593.6,"endTime":2595.43,"body":"Yeah, what I say"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2593.6,"endTime":2595.43,"body":"when I what I said at the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2595.43,"endTime":2597.86,"body":"beginning of the show, which is"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2595.43,"endTime":2597.86,"body":"build build it anyway, just"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2597.86,"endTime":2600.59,"body":"don't put a kitchen sink or"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2597.86,"endTime":2600.59,"body":"stove in it. So most"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2600.59,"endTime":2605.09,"body":"jurisdictions like you, you can"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2600.59,"endTime":2605.09,"body":"find creative loopholes, to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2605.15,"endTime":2608.57,"body":"everything. And I'm like the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2605.15,"endTime":2608.57,"body":"loophole guy like loopholes so."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2609.59,"endTime":2612.5,"body":"So build it as a detached"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2609.59,"endTime":2612.5,"body":"office, build it as a detached"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2612.5,"endTime":2616.13,"body":"bedroom, if it has to be"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2612.5,"endTime":2616.13,"body":"attached, building addition. You"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2616.13,"endTime":2618.83,"body":"know, you can put in walls"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2616.13,"endTime":2618.83,"body":"between one portion of an"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2618.83,"endTime":2621.08,"body":"addition and another you can put"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2618.83,"endTime":2621.08,"body":"in a bathroom, you can put in a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2621.08,"endTime":2623.06,"body":"separate entrance, and you can"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2621.08,"endTime":2623.06,"body":"put in everything except the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2623.06,"endTime":2626.3,"body":"kitchen, sink and stove. And"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2623.06,"endTime":2626.3,"body":"voila, you have an ADU like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2626.3,"endTime":2628.34,"body":"structure. And you can"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2626.3,"endTime":2628.34,"body":"accomplish all the same goals"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2628.34,"endTime":2630.71,"body":"that people who have ADUs know,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2628.34,"endTime":2630.71,"body":"can and you can tell your"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2630.71,"endTime":2635.27,"body":"planning department to go catch"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2630.71,"endTime":2635.27,"body":"up with the West Coast. Because"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2635.3,"endTime":2638.84,"body":"we need people who are willing"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2635.3,"endTime":2638.84,"body":"to stick their neck out and do"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2638.84,"endTime":2642.71,"body":"civil disobedience in a totally"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2638.84,"endTime":2642.71,"body":"legitimate way, and show the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2642.74,"endTime":2646.07,"body":"idiocracy of the some of these"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2642.74,"endTime":2646.07,"body":"rules and regulations that are"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2646.07,"endTime":2649.19,"body":"prohibiting us from taking part"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2646.07,"endTime":2649.19,"body":"in this grassroots housing"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2649.19,"endTime":2649.82,"body":"revolution."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2650.319,"endTime":2655.119,"body":"Yeah. Cool. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2650.319,"endTime":2655.119,"body":"then what about those who, who"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2655.119,"endTime":2659.319,"body":"might want to actually advocate"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2655.119,"endTime":2659.319,"body":"who maybe don't have the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2659.409,"endTime":2664.359,"body":"property or the means to do this"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2659.409,"endTime":2664.359,"body":"kind of civil disobedience but"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2664.359,"endTime":2667.629,"body":"wants to be part of the the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2664.359,"endTime":2667.629,"body":"advocacy?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2668.11,"endTime":2670.03,"body":"Yeah, and like,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2668.11,"endTime":2670.03,"body":"you know, so if you're living in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2670.03,"endTime":2672.37,"body":"a tiny house on wheels, you're"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2670.03,"endTime":2672.37,"body":"also part of that, by the way,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2672.43,"endTime":2676.72,"body":"like, it's not just people who"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2672.43,"endTime":2676.72,"body":"own property. Yeah. Yeah. So I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2676.72,"endTime":2680.38,"body":"think I think the number one"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2676.72,"endTime":2680.38,"body":"step in jurisdictions or regions"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2680.38,"endTime":2683.41,"body":"where there's like a need for"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2680.38,"endTime":2683.41,"body":"this, which is you know, you"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2683.41,"endTime":2685.57,"body":"could say it's the whole country"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2683.41,"endTime":2685.57,"body":"but like it really there's a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2685.57,"endTime":2687.97,"body":"need for this in areas where"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2685.57,"endTime":2687.97,"body":"there's no for a while basis,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2687.97,"endTime":2691.09,"body":"which is most of the coastal"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2687.97,"endTime":2691.09,"body":"United States, east and west"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2691.09,"endTime":2694.75,"body":"coast, then I think the best"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2691.09,"endTime":2694.75,"body":"strategy is to kind of get"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2694.75,"endTime":2697.75,"body":"together with other people who"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2694.75,"endTime":2697.75,"body":"are also interested in this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2697.75,"endTime":2700.84,"body":"concept, not just friends but"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2697.75,"endTime":2700.84,"body":"like Institute All actors,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2700.84,"endTime":2705.22,"body":"realtors, builders, designers,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2700.84,"endTime":2705.22,"body":"urban planners, and work on a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2705.22,"endTime":2709.87,"body":"strategy to legalize ad use, be"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2705.22,"endTime":2709.87,"body":"legalized to use make them"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2709.9,"endTime":2713.32,"body":"easier to build real make at"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2709.9,"endTime":2713.32,"body":"middle housing easier to build."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2713.68,"endTime":2716.26,"body":"And tiny house on wheels, like I"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2713.68,"endTime":2716.26,"body":"said, I think are kind of the"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2716.26,"endTime":2719.29,"body":"future. It's a little bit ahead"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2716.26,"endTime":2719.29,"body":"of the time in terms of like,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2719.98,"endTime":2722.65,"body":"cities broadly adopting this"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2719.98,"endTime":2722.65,"body":"stuff, because you know, it's a"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2722.65,"endTime":2724.81,"body":"little bit as we're bleeding"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2722.65,"endTime":2724.81,"body":"edge right now, like, we have to"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2724.81,"endTime":2727.96,"body":"see how this plays out in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2724.81,"endTime":2727.96,"body":"Portland, in California to that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2727.96,"endTime":2730.72,"body":"what's really the best practice?"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2727.96,"endTime":2730.72,"body":"Yeah, and other places, but"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2730.72,"endTime":2734.11,"body":"other places can experiment too."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2730.72,"endTime":2734.11,"body":"And, you know, I think the more"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2734.11,"endTime":2736.66,"body":"experimentation right now with"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2734.11,"endTime":2736.66,"body":"tiny house on wheels, the better"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2736.87,"endTime":2741.19,"body":"because they offer a really good"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2736.87,"endTime":2741.19,"body":"opportunity. And apparently,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2741.37,"endTime":2744.52,"body":"they're politically palatable,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2741.37,"endTime":2744.52,"body":"based on our experience here in"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2744.52,"endTime":2745.0,"body":"Portland."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2745.3,"endTime":2748.9,"body":"Yeah, seems like"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2745.3,"endTime":2748.9,"body":"it. Well, one, one thing that I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2748.9,"endTime":2752.2,"body":"just like to ask all my guests"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2748.9,"endTime":2752.2,"body":"is, do you have one or two or"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2752.2,"endTime":2755.95,"body":"three book recommendations or"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2752.2,"endTime":2755.95,"body":"other resources, about ADUs"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2756.4,"endTime":2760.36,"body":"about housing in general, just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2756.4,"endTime":2760.36,"body":"things that have inspired you to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2760.36,"endTime":2761.92,"body":"pass along? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2761.95,"endTime":2766.27,"body":"I just read a book"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2761.95,"endTime":2766.27,"body":"called Wheel Estate, a bad name,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2766.3,"endTime":2771.82,"body":"but great book. It was written"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2766.3,"endTime":2771.82,"body":"in the early 90s, maybe late"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2771.85,"endTime":2777.04,"body":"80s. And it's fascinating. It's"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2771.85,"endTime":2777.04,"body":"just a historic, really detailed"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2777.04,"endTime":2782.35,"body":"historic sketch of the origin of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2777.04,"endTime":2782.35,"body":"of RVs. And then mobile homes,"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2782.35,"endTime":2786.4,"body":"manufactured homes, and it"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2782.35,"endTime":2786.4,"body":"touches on ad use. And I think"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2786.4,"endTime":2789.25,"body":"it's a really good like"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2786.4,"endTime":2789.25,"body":"background on the history of"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2789.31,"endTime":2792.31,"body":"mobile dwellings prior to that"},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2789.31,"endTime":2792.31,"body":"tiny house on wheels movement."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2792.67,"endTime":2794.89,"body":"Nice. Awesome."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2795.34,"endTime":2798.01,"body":"Yeah. Kol"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2795.34,"endTime":2798.01,"body":"Peterson, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2798.01,"endTime":2800.65,"body":"for sharing your knowledge and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2798.01,"endTime":2800.65,"body":"experience and thanks for what"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2800.65,"endTime":2801.19,"body":"you're doing."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2801.58,"endTime":2803.56,"body":"Yeah, thank you."},{"speaker":"Kol Peterson","startTime":2801.58,"endTime":2803.56,"body":"It's been a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2805.06,"endTime":2807.79,"body":"Thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2805.06,"endTime":2807.79,"body":"to Kol Peterson for being a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2807.79,"endTime":2810.4,"body":"guest on the show. Today, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2807.79,"endTime":2810.4,"body":"can find the show notes,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2810.4,"endTime":2815.89,"body":"including links to Kol's website"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2810.4,"endTime":2815.89,"body":"books, and to a great blog post"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2815.92,"endTime":2821.2,"body":"about the Portland regulations"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2815.92,"endTime":2821.2,"body":"and what changed at"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2821.23,"endTime":2828.25,"body":"thetinyhouse.net/180. Again,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2821.23,"endTime":2828.25,"body":"that's thetinyhouse.net/180. All"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2828.25,"endTime":2830.65,"body":"right. Well, that's all for this"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2828.25,"endTime":2830.65,"body":"week. I'm your host, Ethan"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2830.65,"endTime":2833.77,"body":"Waldman. And I'll be back next"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2830.65,"endTime":2833.77,"body":"week with another episode of the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2833.77,"endTime":2835.87,"body":"Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast."}]}