{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.88,"body":"Personally, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.88,"body":"wouldn't choose to live that way"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2.88,"endTime":6.21,"body":"forever. But I am super glad"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2.88,"endTime":6.21,"body":"that I had the experience"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":6.24,"endTime":10.44,"body":"because after that, you know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":6.24,"endTime":10.44,"body":"that you can survive on much"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":10.44,"endTime":13.83,"body":"less than in our society we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":10.44,"endTime":13.83,"body":"normally ever imagined."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":14.14,"endTime":17.41,"body":"My guest today is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":14.14,"endTime":17.41,"body":"like a secret rock star in the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":17.41,"endTime":23.17,"body":"tiny house world. I am sure that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":17.41,"endTime":23.17,"body":"she has inspired many of the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":23.41,"endTime":27.52,"body":"well known tiny house designers"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":23.41,"endTime":27.52,"body":"and thinkers that you know of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":27.52,"endTime":32.62,"body":"today. Sarah Susanka published"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":27.52,"endTime":32.62,"body":"her world changing book, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":32.62,"endTime":38.29,"body":"just gonna say it, the Not So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":32.62,"endTime":38.29,"body":"Big House in 1998. And I can't"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":38.71,"endTime":42.19,"body":"stress enough how inspiring this"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":38.71,"endTime":42.19,"body":"book was to me when I was"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":42.19,"endTime":45.88,"body":"designing my tiny house. And I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":42.19,"endTime":45.88,"body":"think that this conversation"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":45.88,"endTime":50.2,"body":"will give you just a taste of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":45.88,"endTime":50.2,"body":"the wisdom and insights that you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":50.2,"endTime":55.9,"body":"will gain from Sarah, through"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":50.2,"endTime":55.9,"body":"her book that has now become an"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":55.9,"endTime":60.37,"body":"entire franchise of Not So Big"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":55.9,"endTime":60.37,"body":"House, Not So Big Life. It's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":60.37,"endTime":63.16,"body":"just all very inspiring. And I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":60.37,"endTime":63.16,"body":"do hope you stick around."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":63.88,"endTime":65.86,"body":"I want to tell you about"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":63.88,"endTime":65.86,"body":"something that I think will be"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":65.86,"endTime":69.46,"body":"super helpful as you plan,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":65.86,"endTime":69.46,"body":"design and build your tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":69.46,"endTime":74.47,"body":"house. Tiny House Decisions is a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":69.46,"endTime":74.47,"body":"guide that I wish I had when I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":74.47,"endTime":77.35,"body":"was building my tiny house. It"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":74.47,"endTime":77.35,"body":"comes in three different"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":77.35,"endTime":80.92,"body":"packages to help you on your"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":77.35,"endTime":80.92,"body":"unique tiny house journey. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":80.92,"endTime":83.35,"body":"if you're struggling to just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":80.92,"endTime":83.35,"body":"figure out the systems for your"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":83.35,"endTime":86.05,"body":"tiny house, you know, like how"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":83.35,"endTime":86.05,"body":"you're going to heat it, how"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":86.05,"endTime":88.69,"body":"you're going to plumb it, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":86.05,"endTime":88.69,"body":"know, what construction"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":88.69,"endTime":92.17,"body":"technique Are you going to use"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":88.69,"endTime":92.17,"body":"like sips or stick framing or"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":92.17,"endTime":95.26,"body":"steel framing. Tiny House"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":92.17,"endTime":95.26,"body":"Decisions will take you through"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":95.26,"endTime":98.26,"body":"all these processes"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":95.26,"endTime":98.26,"body":"systematically, and help you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":98.26,"endTime":101.74,"body":"come up with a design that works"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":98.26,"endTime":101.74,"body":"for you. Right now I'm offering"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":101.74,"endTime":105.46,"body":"20% off any package of Tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":101.74,"endTime":105.46,"body":"House Decisions for listeners of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":105.46,"endTime":110.38,"body":"the show, you can head over to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":105.46,"endTime":110.38,"body":"thetinyhouse.net/THD. To learn"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":110.38,"endTime":115.15,"body":"more, and use the coupon code"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":110.38,"endTime":115.15,"body":"tiny at checkout for 20% off any"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":115.15,"endTime":120.19,"body":"package. Again, that's to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":115.15,"endTime":120.19,"body":"thetinyhouse.net/THD and use the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":120.19,"endTime":122.59,"body":"coupon code tiny for 20% off."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":136.48,"endTime":141.22,"body":"All right, I am here with Sarah"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":136.48,"endTime":141.22,"body":"Susanka. Sarah Susanka's \"Not So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":141.22,"endTime":144.49,"body":"Big\" message has become a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":141.22,"endTime":144.49,"body":"launchpad for a new dimension of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":144.49,"endTime":148.21,"body":"understanding not just about how"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":144.49,"endTime":148.21,"body":"we inhabit our homes, but also"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":148.21,"endTime":151.54,"body":"about how we inhabit a planet"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":148.21,"endTime":151.54,"body":"and even our day to day lives."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":152.08,"endTime":155.68,"body":"As a cultural visionary, with an"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":152.08,"endTime":155.68,"body":"incredible ability to understand"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":155.68,"endTime":158.98,"body":"the underlying structure of the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":155.68,"endTime":158.98,"body":"American lifestyle. Sarah Ssanka"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":159.01,"endTime":162.37,"body":"is providing the language and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":159.01,"endTime":162.37,"body":"tools that are redefining how we"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":162.37,"endTime":164.95,"body":"live there. Sarah Susanka,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":162.37,"endTime":164.95,"body":"welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":165.64,"endTime":167.65,"body":"Oh, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":165.64,"endTime":167.65,"body":"much, Ethan, great to be here."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":167.0,"endTime":172.43,"body":"Great to have,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":167.0,"endTime":172.43,"body":"you know, I built my tiny house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":172.43,"endTime":177.56,"body":"on wheels, way back in 2012,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":172.43,"endTime":177.56,"body":"which is like, considered early"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":177.56,"endTime":181.67,"body":"to the tiny house movement. But"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":177.56,"endTime":181.67,"body":"of course, tiny houses have"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":181.67,"endTime":185.99,"body":"existed for a very long time."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":181.67,"endTime":185.99,"body":"And, and the Not So Big House"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":186.14,"endTime":191.27,"body":"was published in 1998. Many, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":186.14,"endTime":191.27,"body":"know, almost a full decade"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":191.27,"endTime":197.24,"body":"before tiny houses really became"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":191.27,"endTime":197.24,"body":"even on the blip of of people's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":197.24,"endTime":201.86,"body":"consciousness here. Yeah, how"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":197.24,"endTime":201.86,"body":"long? Actually, let's just start"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":201.86,"endTime":205.1,"body":"with you know, what is? What is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":201.86,"endTime":205.1,"body":"the Not So Big House? I know you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":205.1,"endTime":208.67,"body":"have an entire book about what"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":205.1,"endTime":208.67,"body":"it is. But how do you explain it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":208.67,"endTime":210.2,"body":"when somebody says Well, what's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":208.67,"endTime":210.2,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":212.16,"endTime":214.38,"body":"Yeah, actually a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":212.16,"endTime":214.38,"body":"whole series of books at this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":214.38,"endTime":218.58,"body":"point. But but the I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":214.38,"endTime":218.58,"body":"give you a little bit of history"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":218.58,"endTime":222.27,"body":"so that I can explain what \"Not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":218.58,"endTime":222.27,"body":"So Big\" means. So I was a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":222.27,"endTime":226.32,"body":"residential architect working in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":222.27,"endTime":226.32,"body":"Minneapolis and St. Paul, where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":226.32,"endTime":231.66,"body":"I used to live. And every client"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":226.32,"endTime":231.66,"body":"that would come in, would be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":231.66,"endTime":236.31,"body":"asking for more square footage"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":231.66,"endTime":236.31,"body":"than they could afford, given"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":236.31,"endTime":239.1,"body":"the budget that they were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":236.31,"endTime":239.1,"body":"showing me and the pictures they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":239.1,"endTime":242.19,"body":"were showing me. And so I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":239.1,"endTime":242.19,"body":"realized that each time I met"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":242.19,"endTime":245.55,"body":"with a client, I had to explain"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":242.19,"endTime":245.55,"body":"that actually, they didn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":245.55,"endTime":249.84,"body":"probably need all those rooms."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":245.55,"endTime":249.84,"body":"Because the real estate agent"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":249.84,"endTime":253.23,"body":"was telling them they needed him"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":249.84,"endTime":253.23,"body":"for resale. That wasn't a good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":253.23,"endTime":255.54,"body":"enough reason for building them"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":253.23,"endTime":255.54,"body":"if they wanted a house that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":255.54,"endTime":259.71,"body":"really fit them. So I started to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":255.54,"endTime":259.71,"body":"help people to see that if you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":259.71,"endTime":263.37,"body":"dropped off the rooms you rarely"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":259.71,"endTime":263.37,"body":"used like the formal living room"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":263.37,"endTime":266.34,"body":"and the formal dining room and a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":263.37,"endTime":266.34,"body":"guest bedroom which most people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":266.64,"endTime":271.11,"body":"don't use but once a year, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":266.64,"endTime":271.11,"body":"then use the dollars for the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":271.11,"endTime":274.05,"body":"house that you actually live in,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":271.11,"endTime":274.05,"body":"you're going to end up with a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":274.05,"endTime":279.36,"body":"better house. So this kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":274.05,"endTime":279.36,"body":"house and Not So Big House is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":279.39,"endTime":284.43,"body":"about a third smaller than you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":279.39,"endTime":284.43,"body":"thought you needed. But you are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":284.43,"endTime":288.21,"body":"able to live in every square"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":284.43,"endTime":288.21,"body":"foot every day. And so,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":288.78,"endTime":294.18,"body":"paradoxically, it's not about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":288.78,"endTime":294.18,"body":"size. So it fits the tiny house"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":294.18,"endTime":297.93,"body":"movement and it fits people who"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":294.18,"endTime":297.93,"body":"are building houses bigger than"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":297.93,"endTime":302.07,"body":"you I would ever imagine. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":297.93,"endTime":302.07,"body":"there's still a way of thinking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":302.07,"endTime":306.48,"body":"about it, where it's going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":302.07,"endTime":306.48,"body":"fit you, so that you live in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":306.48,"endTime":308.28,"body":"every square foot every day."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":308.97,"endTime":312.12,"body":"So for some"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":308.97,"endTime":312.12,"body":"people that could be 2500 square"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":312.12,"endTime":314.82,"body":"feet, and for some people that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":312.12,"endTime":314.82,"body":"could be 800 square feet,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":315.36,"endTime":318.0,"body":"you've got it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":315.36,"endTime":318.0,"body":"exactly. And it's really about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":318.48,"endTime":322.02,"body":"quality rather than quantity. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":318.48,"endTime":322.02,"body":"it's really looking at what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":322.02,"endTime":325.02,"body":"makes a house into a home. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":322.02,"endTime":325.02,"body":"that works, whether we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":325.02,"endTime":329.01,"body":"talking about little teeny"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":325.02,"endTime":329.01,"body":"houses or apartments, or, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":329.01,"endTime":333.33,"body":"know, a house that could be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":329.01,"endTime":333.33,"body":"acres and acres of space. But if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":333.33,"endTime":336.39,"body":"we just reapportioned that we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":333.33,"endTime":336.39,"body":"can make it feel much more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":336.39,"endTime":337.56,"body":"comfortable and livable."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":337.77,"endTime":341.76,"body":"Absolutely. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":337.77,"endTime":341.76,"body":"And in in Not So Big House, you,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":342.18,"endTime":347.61,"body":"you talk about how our informal"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":342.18,"endTime":347.61,"body":"lifestyle has has kind of put us"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":347.61,"endTime":351.81,"body":"out of sync with houses that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":347.61,"endTime":351.81,"body":"were designed for a different"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":351.81,"endTime":352.47,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":353.13,"endTime":356.88,"body":"Absolutely, we've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":353.13,"endTime":356.88,"body":"added rooms on. Yeah, we've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":356.88,"endTime":360.6,"body":"added rooms. So the formal"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":356.88,"endTime":360.6,"body":"living room in the formal dining"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":360.6,"endTime":363.78,"body":"room stayed, but then we added a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":360.6,"endTime":363.78,"body":"family room, and then everybody"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":363.78,"endTime":367.02,"body":"lived in the family room, or the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":363.78,"endTime":367.02,"body":"great room. And these little"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":367.02,"endTime":372.66,"body":"appendages of old atrophying"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":367.02,"endTime":372.66,"body":"functions, still were there. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":372.66,"endTime":376.29,"body":"so, you know, at West, when I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":372.66,"endTime":376.29,"body":"was doing a lot of remodeling"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":376.56,"endTime":380.49,"body":"would walk into somebody's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":376.56,"endTime":380.49,"body":"house. And there's the furniture"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":380.52,"endTime":383.58,"body":"that nobody would ever sit in,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":380.52,"endTime":383.58,"body":"because it's uncomfortable in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":383.58,"endTime":386.97,"body":"the formal living room. And as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":383.58,"endTime":386.97,"body":"soon as people decided that I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":386.97,"endTime":389.37,"body":"was a friendly human being, they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":386.97,"endTime":389.37,"body":"said, well, let's go and sit in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":389.37,"endTime":393.0,"body":"the kitchen where it's more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":389.37,"endTime":393.0,"body":"comfortable. Like, it's, we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":393.0,"endTime":396.03,"body":"designing these rooms for people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":393.0,"endTime":396.03,"body":"that we would really rather not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":396.03,"endTime":400.26,"body":"have in our houses. And we are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":396.03,"endTime":400.26,"body":"living in the other part. So it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":400.26,"endTime":403.17,"body":"doesn't make sense to build the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":400.26,"endTime":403.17,"body":"space we don't use, but very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":403.17,"endTime":403.47,"body":"rare."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":403.5,"endTime":405.3,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":403.5,"endTime":405.3,"body":"that's that's definitely"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":405.3,"endTime":410.76,"body":"something that has been taken up"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":405.3,"endTime":410.76,"body":"by the tiny house movement. To a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":410.76,"endTime":414.48,"body":"bit of an extreme, I would say,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":410.76,"endTime":414.48,"body":"or, or to just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":415.44,"endTime":419.34,"body":"further shrinking things down to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":415.44,"endTime":419.34,"body":"the constraints of fitting on"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":419.34,"endTime":420.27,"body":"top of a trailer."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":421.05,"endTime":424.95,"body":"That's right,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":421.05,"endTime":424.95,"body":"exactly, exactly. Yeah. I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":424.95,"endTime":429.33,"body":"know if you are interested in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":424.95,"endTime":429.33,"body":"this, but I actually was, was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":429.81,"endTime":432.9,"body":"learned a lot from living in my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":429.81,"endTime":432.9,"body":"own tiny house when I was in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":432.9,"endTime":435.66,"body":"college very much. So it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":432.9,"endTime":435.66,"body":"actually on the back of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":435.66,"endTime":439.59,"body":"flatbed truck. And it was it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":435.66,"endTime":439.59,"body":"beautiful. Back in the 70s. We"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":439.59,"endTime":442.92,"body":"call them wood Butcher's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":439.59,"endTime":442.92,"body":"trailers. Okay. And I lived in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":442.92,"endTime":447.36,"body":"one pool, and it was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":442.92,"endTime":447.36,"body":"it was completely self"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":447.36,"endTime":451.68,"body":"sufficient. You know, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":447.36,"endTime":451.68,"body":"have there was not a square or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":451.68,"endTime":455.64,"body":"cubic inch of space that was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":451.68,"endTime":455.64,"body":"wasted. How about how big was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":455.64,"endTime":461.07,"body":"it? Was 96 square feet? Okay."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":455.64,"endTime":461.07,"body":"Yeah. And it had, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":461.07,"endTime":464.73,"body":"closet on the main level, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":461.07,"endTime":464.73,"body":"then a bed loft above it, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":464.73,"endTime":469.8,"body":"the wood stove and a little"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":464.73,"endTime":469.8,"body":"sink, and we hung the Christmas"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":469.8,"endTime":474.12,"body":"tree off of the gable, in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":469.8,"endTime":474.12,"body":"center, upside down."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":474.36,"endTime":476.85,"body":"How long? How"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":474.36,"endTime":476.85,"body":"long did you live there?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":477.36,"endTime":481.29,"body":"I was only for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":477.36,"endTime":481.29,"body":"probably about 18 months. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":481.41,"endTime":486.42,"body":"but it taught me so much. It was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":481.41,"endTime":486.42,"body":"just such an exercise in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":486.42,"endTime":490.83,"body":"learning. What one doesn't need."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":486.42,"endTime":490.83,"body":"Yeah, really, and how"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":490.83,"endTime":495.15,"body":"beautifully one can live in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":490.83,"endTime":495.15,"body":"very, very compact space?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":495.45,"endTime":498.24,"body":"What, what's one"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":495.45,"endTime":498.24,"body":"or two of the things that you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":498.81,"endTime":501.42,"body":"maybe learned that you didn't"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":498.81,"endTime":501.42,"body":"need through that experience?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":502.02,"endTime":505.95,"body":"Oh, my goodness,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":502.02,"endTime":505.95,"body":"it was it was so much it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":505.95,"endTime":511.2,"body":"really, it was like a tide"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":505.95,"endTime":511.2,"body":"change for me in my mindset when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":511.2,"endTime":515.97,"body":"I lived there, because I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":511.2,"endTime":515.97,"body":"discovered that the outdoor"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":515.97,"endTime":520.62,"body":"space, we were we were in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":515.97,"endTime":520.62,"body":"fairly wooded area. So the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":520.62,"endTime":523.8,"body":"outdoor space became like an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":520.62,"endTime":523.8,"body":"extension of the home even"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":523.8,"endTime":528.24,"body":"though I was living in Oregon at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":523.8,"endTime":528.24,"body":"the time, so it was not warm all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":528.24,"endTime":533.22,"body":"year round. But it but that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":528.24,"endTime":533.22,"body":"beauty of the long distance"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":533.22,"endTime":538.95,"body":"views became really quite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":533.22,"endTime":538.95,"body":"important. And then the coziness"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":538.98,"endTime":544.8,"body":"of that little space was was I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":538.98,"endTime":544.8,"body":"wouldn't trade that experience"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":544.8,"endTime":547.77,"body":"for anything, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":544.8,"endTime":547.77,"body":"it's like a little nest and I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":547.77,"endTime":548.31,"body":"love that."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":548.73,"endTime":551.19,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":548.73,"endTime":551.19,"body":"that's a great way of describing"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":551.19,"endTime":556.95,"body":"it. And it's, it can be really"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":551.19,"endTime":556.95,"body":"difficult for for people to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":556.95,"endTime":565.05,"body":"envision living in 96 or 150"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":556.95,"endTime":565.05,"body":"square feet. When you know they"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":565.05,"endTime":567.39,"body":"do some simple math in their"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":565.05,"endTime":567.39,"body":"head and they're like, Oh wow,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":567.42,"endTime":571.65,"body":"96 square feet. That's that's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":567.42,"endTime":571.65,"body":"nine feet by 10 feet. That's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":571.65,"endTime":575.01,"body":"like the size of a very small"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":571.65,"endTime":575.01,"body":"bedroom or, or a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":576.69,"endTime":580.5,"body":"large walk in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":576.69,"endTime":580.5,"body":"closet. That's right, exactly."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":580.53,"endTime":584.52,"body":"And it's it said we had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":580.53,"endTime":584.52,"body":"everything did double duty. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":584.52,"endTime":589.89,"body":"the closet door had a fold down"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":584.52,"endTime":589.89,"body":"table and the chairs on either"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":589.89,"endTime":592.92,"body":"side could fold so that we could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":589.89,"endTime":592.92,"body":"have more floor space if we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":592.92,"endTime":597.57,"body":"needed it but actually never did"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":592.92,"endTime":597.57,"body":"that. Right? Right. Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":598.17,"endTime":601.2,"body":"it is really,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":598.17,"endTime":601.2,"body":"really interesting when you boil"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":601.2,"endTime":606.3,"body":"down the house to the spaces"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":601.2,"endTime":606.3,"body":"that you really really need,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":606.33,"endTime":609.63,"body":"which is somewhere to sleep"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":606.33,"endTime":609.63,"body":"somewhere to prepare food and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":609.63,"endTime":613.53,"body":"somewhere to hang out. That's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":609.63,"endTime":613.53,"body":"right. Exactly. And and maybe go"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":613.56,"endTime":615.72,"body":"maybe go to the bathroom in the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":613.56,"endTime":615.72,"body":"house although Yeah, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":615.72,"endTime":622.29,"body":"had to we had the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":615.72,"endTime":622.29,"body":"bathroom outside. Exactly. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":622.56,"endTime":628.14,"body":"no, it's it's uh personally I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":622.56,"endTime":628.14,"body":"wouldn't choose to live that way"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":628.14,"endTime":632.04,"body":"forever but I am super glad that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":628.14,"endTime":632.04,"body":"I had the experience because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":632.37,"endTime":636.54,"body":"after that, you know that you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":632.37,"endTime":636.54,"body":"can survive on much less Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":636.57,"endTime":640.41,"body":"then in our society we normally"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":636.57,"endTime":640.41,"body":"ever imagined. Yeah, and that's,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":641.1,"endTime":644.4,"body":"that's an a great"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":641.1,"endTime":644.4,"body":"segue because you know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":644.4,"endTime":648.57,"body":"live full time in my tiny house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":644.4,"endTime":648.57,"body":"anymore either. Though, I do"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":648.57,"endTime":652.11,"body":"still own it. And it's more of a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":648.57,"endTime":652.11,"body":"place that my wife and I go to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":652.11,"endTime":657.24,"body":"be more in nature and just enjoy"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":652.11,"endTime":657.24,"body":"being together in in a really"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":657.72,"endTime":662.88,"body":"cozy space that that I built so"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":657.72,"endTime":662.88,"body":"it's just so different than"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":662.88,"endTime":667.2,"body":"where we live most of the time."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":662.88,"endTime":667.2,"body":"Because everything is so"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":667.2,"endTime":671.4,"body":"personal. And it seems like the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":667.2,"endTime":671.4,"body":"the Not So Big House is maybe"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":672.39,"endTime":676.95,"body":"almost like you could grow out"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":672.39,"endTime":676.95,"body":"of a tiny house. Because you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":676.95,"endTime":681.81,"body":"know, for us, we live in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":676.95,"endTime":681.81,"body":"Vermont. We love to recreate"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":681.81,"endTime":686.34,"body":"here. There are different types"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":681.81,"endTime":686.34,"body":"of bicycles, different kinds of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":686.34,"endTime":689.91,"body":"skis, you know, I've gotten"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":686.34,"endTime":689.91,"body":"really into kiteboarding, which"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":689.91,"endTime":694.11,"body":"is a wonderful wind score on the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":689.91,"endTime":694.11,"body":"lake and it's just like, all of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":694.11,"endTime":697.53,"body":"these activities come with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":694.11,"endTime":697.53,"body":"things to own and things to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":697.53,"endTime":702.06,"body":"store but you know, it's it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":697.53,"endTime":702.06,"body":"what is important to us. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":702.06,"endTime":705.33,"body":"it's what why we live here"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":702.06,"endTime":705.33,"body":"what's, you know, Why else do"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":705.33,"endTime":708.93,"body":"you want to suffer through the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":705.33,"endTime":708.93,"body":"eight month winter, and then to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":708.93,"endTime":712.86,"body":"go play in the snow. So it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":708.93,"endTime":712.86,"body":"just like, I could see a Not So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":712.86,"endTime":717.24,"body":"Big House for us really"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":712.86,"endTime":717.24,"body":"incorporating a lot of storage,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":717.27,"endTime":719.16,"body":"like places where our trailer"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":719.19,"endTime":722.85,"body":"lives. Creative"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":719.19,"endTime":722.85,"body":"storage is what I call it in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":722.85,"endTime":726.15,"body":"Not So Big House, it's like, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":722.85,"endTime":726.15,"body":"know, you place for everything"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":726.15,"endTime":729.3,"body":"and everything in its place,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":726.15,"endTime":729.3,"body":"much like a boat, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":729.3,"endTime":732.48,"body":"that's beautifully designed,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":729.3,"endTime":732.48,"body":"you've got to think about space"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":732.48,"endTime":737.1,"body":"differently when it's in short"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":732.48,"endTime":737.1,"body":"supply. Yeah. And Not So Big"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":737.1,"endTime":740.49,"body":"House is really designed with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":737.1,"endTime":740.49,"body":"that. Not that you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":740.49,"endTime":744.09,"body":"make space in short supply, but"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":740.49,"endTime":744.09,"body":"you're trying to utilize every"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":744.33,"endTime":746.28,"body":"part of the house really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":744.33,"endTime":746.28,"body":"effectively."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":747.57,"endTime":751.02,"body":"How, in what ways"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":747.57,"endTime":751.02,"body":"Have you seen and I know that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":751.02,"endTime":755.04,"body":"you also practice what you what"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":751.02,"endTime":755.04,"body":"you preach, for lack of a better"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":755.04,"endTime":757.92,"body":"word I live in the \"Not So Big\""},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":755.04,"endTime":757.92,"body":"house reminds me this all the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":757.92,"endTime":763.95,"body":"time. How have you seen \"Not So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":757.92,"endTime":763.95,"body":"Big\", living improve quality of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":763.95,"endTime":764.4,"body":"life?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":764.97,"endTime":768.99,"body":"Oh, it's, it's, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":764.97,"endTime":768.99,"body":"wish I could transport people to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":769.35,"endTime":772.53,"body":"conversations I have with my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":769.35,"endTime":772.53,"body":"clients after I've finished a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":772.53,"endTime":777.09,"body":"house for them. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":772.53,"endTime":777.09,"body":"when something's designed just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":777.09,"endTime":780.54,"body":"for you, you may have had this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":777.09,"endTime":780.54,"body":"experience even in just making"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":780.54,"endTime":784.17,"body":"your tiny house, but when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":780.54,"endTime":784.17,"body":"something's designed and crafted"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":784.17,"endTime":789.21,"body":"around your particular life, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":784.17,"endTime":789.21,"body":"lifestyle, there's something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":789.21,"endTime":794.37,"body":"that's not workable, but you can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":789.21,"endTime":794.37,"body":"feel it. Sometimes when you go"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":794.37,"endTime":797.79,"body":"into someone's house when it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":794.37,"endTime":797.79,"body":"just right. It's tailored to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":797.79,"endTime":803.97,"body":"them. Yeah, there's an ineffable"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":797.79,"endTime":803.97,"body":"something that is, is there and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":803.97,"endTime":808.05,"body":"I've had so many of my clients"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":803.97,"endTime":808.05,"body":"tell me that when they move in,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":808.53,"endTime":812.43,"body":"it fits them just so and you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":808.53,"endTime":812.43,"body":"know, they don't ever want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":812.88,"endTime":815.37,"body":"ever want to leave right"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":812.88,"endTime":815.37,"body":"actually did a house a few years"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":815.37,"endTime":821.16,"body":"ago when you did your tiny house"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":815.37,"endTime":821.16,"body":"actually, for a couple who we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":821.16,"endTime":824.88,"body":"designed it just just right for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":821.16,"endTime":824.88,"body":"them. They they used to travel"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":824.88,"endTime":827.49,"body":"all over the place. They said we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":824.88,"endTime":827.49,"body":"don't do it anymore. We'd love"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":827.49,"endTime":829.68,"body":"it here. We don't want to go"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":827.49,"endTime":829.68,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":829.71,"endTime":836.4,"body":"no reason. Kind"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":829.71,"endTime":836.4,"body":"of just, it's nice. What I just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":836.4,"endTime":839.61,"body":"out of curiosity, if you know"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":836.4,"endTime":839.61,"body":"off the top of your head, what's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":839.61,"endTime":845.55,"body":"the smallest? Not So Big House"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":839.61,"endTime":845.55,"body":"you've designed? And and also"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":845.55,"endTime":847.65,"body":"what's the largest? Like, what's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":845.55,"endTime":847.65,"body":"the what's the range?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":849.0,"endTime":851.67,"body":"It's a big range."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":849.0,"endTime":851.67,"body":"Because I've worked with people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":851.67,"endTime":855.87,"body":"you know, architects are. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":851.67,"endTime":855.87,"body":"suspect this may surprise your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":855.87,"endTime":861.42,"body":"listeners. Architects serve all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":855.87,"endTime":861.42,"body":"kinds of different needs and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":861.42,"endTime":866.04,"body":"people and so I've done probably"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":861.42,"endTime":866.04,"body":"the smallest I've done is about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":866.04,"endTime":872.31,"body":"600 square feet. Yeah. Apart"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":866.04,"endTime":872.31,"body":"from my own little tiny, tiny"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":872.31,"endTime":877.08,"body":"house. Yeah, but the the larger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":872.31,"endTime":877.08,"body":"ones, I've done a 7000 square"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":877.08,"endTime":881.4,"body":"foot house. Wow. You know, and I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":877.08,"endTime":881.4,"body":"stopped for some architects they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":881.4,"endTime":885.78,"body":"say oh my god, I would never do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":881.4,"endTime":885.78,"body":"that. But there's this process"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":885.81,"endTime":889.62,"body":"of thinking about space"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":885.81,"endTime":889.62,"body":"differently, is appropriate for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":889.62,"endTime":892.41,"body":"everyone. And I prefer not to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":889.62,"endTime":892.41,"body":"get into the state of trying to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":892.41,"endTime":896.43,"body":"judge somebody for should they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":892.41,"endTime":896.43,"body":"or shouldn't be, right. I know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":896.43,"endTime":900.42,"body":"how to make a space really feel"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":896.43,"endTime":900.42,"body":"like home. And that's But I want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":900.42,"endTime":903.3,"body":"to be able to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":900.42,"endTime":903.3,"body":"participate in and share. I love"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":903.3,"endTime":909.21,"body":"that. And I also will will echo"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":903.3,"endTime":909.21,"body":"what you what you said about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":909.96,"endTime":915.72,"body":"architects and design is that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":909.96,"endTime":915.72,"body":"it's, you know, when you walk"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":915.72,"endTime":919.77,"body":"into a space it, someone might"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":915.72,"endTime":919.77,"body":"say, oh I don't need I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":919.77,"endTime":921.33,"body":"need a professional designer, I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":921.33,"endTime":922.86,"body":"don't need an"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":921.33,"endTime":922.86,"body":"architect or I don't need"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":922.86,"endTime":927.84,"body":"somebody who's good with design"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":922.86,"endTime":927.84,"body":"to help me. But they I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":927.87,"endTime":930.51,"body":"when you walk into a space that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":927.87,"endTime":930.51,"body":"wasn't well designed, that's I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":930.51,"endTime":934.92,"body":"feel like when you can really,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":930.51,"endTime":934.92,"body":"if you can feel that sooner and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":934.92,"endTime":939.42,"body":"quicker and more sharply then"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":934.92,"endTime":939.42,"body":"when a space is designed."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":939.78,"endTime":942.15,"body":"That's right. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":939.78,"endTime":942.15,"body":"a lot of people don't realize"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":942.15,"endTime":945.9,"body":"that the pictures they love,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":942.15,"endTime":945.9,"body":"whether it's in magazines, or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":945.9,"endTime":950.61,"body":"online, or my favorite source"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":945.9,"endTime":950.61,"body":"these days house calm, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":950.61,"endTime":954.75,"body":"you don't realize that those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":950.61,"endTime":954.75,"body":"things that they're responding"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":954.75,"endTime":959.07,"body":"to are actually designed most"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":954.75,"endTime":959.07,"body":"frequently by architects. It's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":959.07,"endTime":962.13,"body":"we don't have a label that says"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":959.07,"endTime":962.13,"body":"this was designed by an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":962.13,"endTime":965.73,"body":"architect, but our eyes know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":962.13,"endTime":965.73,"body":"it's got something."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":965.97,"endTime":971.49,"body":"Yeah. And I think"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":965.97,"endTime":971.49,"body":"that there is a there's maybe a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":971.49,"endTime":975.39,"body":"misconception that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":971.49,"endTime":975.39,"body":"working with an architect is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":975.39,"endTime":977.46,"body":"only for rich people."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":978.06,"endTime":980.19,"body":"Yes, actually,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":978.06,"endTime":980.19,"body":"that's what I wrote my books"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":980.22,"endTime":985.44,"body":"for, because I was realizing, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":980.22,"endTime":985.44,"body":"used to do. In my early days, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":985.44,"endTime":989.97,"body":"had a booth at the Home and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":985.44,"endTime":989.97,"body":"Garden Show in Minneapolis. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":990.36,"endTime":992.52,"body":"people would come up and they'd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":990.36,"endTime":992.52,"body":"look at our pictures and they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":992.52,"endTime":995.4,"body":"go, Oh, wow, these are so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":992.52,"endTime":995.4,"body":"beautiful. I wish I could afford"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":995.4,"endTime":998.01,"body":"an architect and and I said,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":995.4,"endTime":998.01,"body":"Well, you know, what's your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":998.01,"endTime":1001.64,"body":"budget? And the, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":998.01,"endTime":1001.64,"body":"would tell me a budget that was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1001.64,"endTime":1005.63,"body":"higher than all the pictures on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1001.64,"endTime":1005.63,"body":"the wall. And I'd say you can,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1005.66,"endTime":1009.11,"body":"this is what we do, right?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1005.66,"endTime":1009.11,"body":"That's what I realized is that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1009.11,"endTime":1013.58,"body":"most people had no idea that we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1009.11,"endTime":1013.58,"body":"were seen as something for some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1013.67,"endTime":1018.29,"body":"elite, super wealthy part of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1013.67,"endTime":1018.29,"body":"population. And I knew we could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1018.29,"endTime":1022.31,"body":"help everybody. So we really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1018.29,"endTime":1022.31,"body":"started a movement at my old"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1022.31,"endTime":1027.92,"body":"firm to help people grasp that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1022.31,"endTime":1027.92,"body":"everyone can work with an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1027.92,"endTime":1031.64,"body":"architect. And so nowadays,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1027.92,"endTime":1031.64,"body":"there's a lot more residential"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1031.64,"endTime":1035.78,"body":"architects available and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1031.64,"endTime":1035.78,"body":"visible. Yeah, that wasn't true"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1035.78,"endTime":1040.01,"body":"in the 90s. Yeah, and also, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1035.78,"endTime":1040.01,"body":"know, we"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1040.04,"endTime":1043.28,"body":"we ended up"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1040.04,"endTime":1043.28,"body":"working with the same designer a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1043.28,"endTime":1046.85,"body":"second time when we remodeled"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1043.28,"endTime":1046.85,"body":"the kitchen in this fairly tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1046.91,"endTime":1051.86,"body":"condo we live in. And it just,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1046.91,"endTime":1051.86,"body":"we didn't have a big budget. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1051.86,"endTime":1058.49,"body":"what we were able to do was"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1051.86,"endTime":1058.49,"body":"instead of having them do all of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1058.49,"endTime":1063.38,"body":"the work, we had them over,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1058.49,"endTime":1063.38,"body":"basically got some design ideas."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1063.89,"endTime":1069.32,"body":"And then I did the I did the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1063.89,"endTime":1069.32,"body":"layout in IKEA in using IKEA"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1070.07,"endTime":1073.46,"body":"tool, and, you know, bounce"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1070.07,"endTime":1073.46,"body":"ideas off of them back and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1073.46,"endTime":1078.47,"body":"forth. And, you know, when when"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1073.46,"endTime":1078.47,"body":"the architect when the design"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1078.47,"endTime":1081.77,"body":"firm wasn't drawing all the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1078.47,"endTime":1081.77,"body":"plans and doing that work, it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1081.77,"endTime":1085.76,"body":"saved us some money, but we"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1081.77,"endTime":1085.76,"body":"still had the outcome of a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1085.76,"endTime":1089.51,"body":"kitchen that just feels"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1085.76,"endTime":1089.51,"body":"incredible to be in and just so"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1089.51,"endTime":1094.49,"body":"many ideas that we never would"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1089.51,"endTime":1094.49,"body":"have considered, like turning"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1094.49,"endTime":1098.81,"body":"the whole thing 90 degrees so"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1094.49,"endTime":1098.81,"body":"that the view the person who's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1098.81,"endTime":1100.49,"body":"cooking the food can see the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1098.81,"endTime":1100.49,"body":"view."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1101.66,"endTime":1104.24,"body":"Right? Yes, some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1101.66,"endTime":1104.24,"body":"simple stuff. Yeah, and I'll"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1104.24,"endTime":1107.93,"body":"tell you a secret that that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1104.24,"endTime":1107.93,"body":"there's a layer of what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1107.93,"endTime":1114.23,"body":"architects do, which often"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1107.93,"endTime":1114.23,"body":"doesn't get discovered, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1114.23,"endTime":1117.77,"body":"people don't go far enough in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1114.23,"endTime":1117.77,"body":"the process with the architect,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1117.83,"endTime":1121.76,"body":"yeah, you can have an architect,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1117.83,"endTime":1121.76,"body":"at least not every architect"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1121.76,"endTime":1125.24,"body":"will do this, but some who do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1121.76,"endTime":1125.24,"body":"what I would do called kitchen"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1125.33,"endTime":1130.76,"body":"table consults, come and just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1125.33,"endTime":1130.76,"body":"give some suggestions. Once"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1130.76,"endTime":1135.47,"body":"you've got your plan sorted out,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1130.76,"endTime":1135.47,"body":"they can add a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1135.86,"endTime":1139.43,"body":"especially related to the third"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1135.86,"endTime":1139.43,"body":"dimension, the heights of thing,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1139.46,"endTime":1144.02,"body":"because that shapes the space in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1139.46,"endTime":1144.02,"body":"a way that most people are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1144.02,"endTime":1146.96,"body":"completely unaware. That's what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1144.02,"endTime":1146.96,"body":"a lot of my books are really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1146.96,"endTime":1151.76,"body":"about is how to make the most of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1146.96,"endTime":1151.76,"body":"the heights of things. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1151.76,"endTime":1155.24,"body":"not talking about tall, taller"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1151.76,"endTime":1155.24,"body":"and tallest. I'm talking about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1155.24,"endTime":1159.47,"body":"making things that make some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1155.24,"endTime":1159.47,"body":"spaces feel cozy, so that the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1159.5,"endTime":1164.0,"body":"taller spaces have some contrast"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1159.5,"endTime":1164.0,"body":"from one to the other. That"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1164.0,"endTime":1166.79,"body":"makes an enormous difference."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1164.0,"endTime":1166.79,"body":"And most people are completely"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1166.79,"endTime":1167.57,"body":"unaware of it."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1167.66,"endTime":1170.21,"body":"Yeah, spaces with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1167.66,"endTime":1170.21,"body":"really high ceilings aren't as"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1170.21,"endTime":1171.53,"body":"comfortable, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1172.01,"endTime":1173.87,"body":"not it's like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1172.01,"endTime":1173.87,"body":"sitting in an elevator. You"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1173.87,"endTime":1176.27,"body":"know, it's like, Yeah, sure. No,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1173.87,"endTime":1176.27,"body":"I don't think I want to do"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1178.94,"endTime":1183.38,"body":"though. Not So"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1178.94,"endTime":1183.38,"body":"Big House was published in 1998."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1183.86,"endTime":1189.41,"body":"And I'm curious, what, what have"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1183.86,"endTime":1189.41,"body":"been your impressions of, of the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1189.41,"endTime":1194.45,"body":"tiny house movement, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1189.41,"endTime":1194.45,"body":"early on and now you know, as"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1194.45,"endTime":1198.5,"body":"its continued and become bigger"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1194.45,"endTime":1198.5,"body":"for lack of a better word."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1198.53,"endTime":1200.96,"body":"Yes. Right."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1198.53,"endTime":1200.96,"body":"Right. Well, it's been an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1200.96,"endTime":1204.65,"body":"interesting process. And, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1200.96,"endTime":1204.65,"body":"I'm sure in the tiny house house"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1204.65,"endTime":1208.7,"body":"movement, people are very much"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1204.65,"endTime":1208.7,"body":"aware of this. But depending"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1208.7,"endTime":1213.86,"body":"upon what's happening"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1208.7,"endTime":1213.86,"body":"culturally, for example, in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1214.31,"endTime":1219.32,"body":"2008, the market is terribly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1214.31,"endTime":1219.32,"body":"depressed. Suddenly, everyone"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1219.32,"endTime":1223.01,"body":"was interviewing me about tiny"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1219.32,"endTime":1223.01,"body":"houses. I had one article even"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1223.01,"endTime":1225.59,"body":"told said that I was the mother"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1223.01,"endTime":1225.59,"body":"of the tiny house movement,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1225.59,"endTime":1231.17,"body":"which I'm absolutely not. You"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1225.59,"endTime":1231.17,"body":"know, instead, they that became"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1231.17,"endTime":1235.58,"body":"the thing I got quoted about,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1231.17,"endTime":1235.58,"body":"because it was the latest, very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1235.58,"endTime":1239.45,"body":"small version of a \"Not So Big\""},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1235.58,"endTime":1239.45,"body":"outright, but that, but the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1239.57,"endTime":1243.98,"body":"thing that's happened is that, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1239.57,"endTime":1243.98,"body":"think people it went from being"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1244.46,"endTime":1249.38,"body":"sort of like a fascinating"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1244.46,"endTime":1249.38,"body":"oddity to now, one alternative"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1249.44,"endTime":1253.31,"body":"in the options available for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1249.44,"endTime":1253.31,"body":"people who are thinking about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1253.37,"endTime":1258.26,"body":"what kind of house do we want?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1253.37,"endTime":1258.26,"body":"And I think it's a very valuable"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1258.44,"endTime":1263.36,"body":"addition, because most of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1258.44,"endTime":1263.36,"body":"house forms that we've had in,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1263.51,"endTime":1269.15,"body":"in this society, or at least the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1263.51,"endTime":1269.15,"body":"last 50 years have gotten bigger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1269.15,"endTime":1272.36,"body":"and bigger and bigger. And they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1269.15,"endTime":1272.36,"body":"really need to be some smaller"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1272.36,"endTime":1275.15,"body":"option. Yeah, because not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1272.36,"endTime":1275.15,"body":"everybody wants three bedrooms"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1275.15,"endTime":1275.33,"body":"up."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1275.84,"endTime":1278.03,"body":"You know, of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1275.84,"endTime":1278.03,"body":"course, ironically, tiny houses"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1278.15,"endTime":1280.34,"body":"have also gotten bigger and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1278.15,"endTime":1280.34,"body":"bigger and bigger."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1280.46,"endTime":1284.63,"body":"Yes, we have that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1280.46,"endTime":1284.63,"body":"pensions in this suite. Really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1284.63,"endTime":1285.08,"body":"do"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1285.11,"endTime":1291.2,"body":"I mean, and, and,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1285.11,"endTime":1291.2,"body":"you know, I picked up a copy of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1291.2,"endTime":1295.07,"body":"Not So Big House, way back when"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1291.2,"endTime":1295.07,"body":"I was working on the design for"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1295.07,"endTime":1299.75,"body":"mine, and, you know, hadn't read"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1295.07,"endTime":1299.75,"body":"it. And, you know, after that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1299.75,"endTime":1304.31,"body":"process, it sat on the shelf,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1299.75,"endTime":1304.31,"body":"and I kind of revisited it, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1304.31,"endTime":1309.92,"body":"know, for in preparing for the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1304.31,"endTime":1309.92,"body":"interview, and I was kind of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1309.95,"endTime":1314.78,"body":"thinking to myself, I wonder if"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1309.95,"endTime":1314.78,"body":"the ways that that we've been"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1314.78,"endTime":1319.25,"body":"building tiny houses bigger is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1314.78,"endTime":1319.25,"body":"actually contributing to the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1319.25,"endTime":1324.74,"body":"quality of the space? Or is that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1319.25,"endTime":1324.74,"body":"just? Yeah, is it just adding"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1324.74,"endTime":1329.48,"body":"things that we think that we"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1324.74,"endTime":1329.48,"body":"want, you know, so for example,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1330.38,"endTime":1334.67,"body":"tiny houses, when I built mine,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1330.38,"endTime":1334.67,"body":"it was rare that you would put"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1334.67,"endTime":1338.15,"body":"like a full size a kitchen with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1334.67,"endTime":1338.15,"body":"full size appliances in it, and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1338.15,"endTime":1340.97,"body":"and don't get me wrong, right?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1338.15,"endTime":1340.97,"body":"Very nice to cook on full size"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1340.97,"endTime":1345.08,"body":"appliances. But a lot of tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1340.97,"endTime":1345.08,"body":"house welders don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1345.08,"endTime":1348.59,"body":"do a lot of cooking in their"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1345.08,"endTime":1348.59,"body":"houses anyway, and then just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1348.62,"endTime":1352.97,"body":"eating up, you know, that's 30"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1348.62,"endTime":1352.97,"body":"4050 square feet with a bigger"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1352.97,"endTime":1353.42,"body":"kitchen."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1354.14,"endTime":1356.48,"body":"You know, this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1354.14,"endTime":1356.48,"body":"mentality that you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1356.48,"endTime":1360.41,"body":"describing, and the and the,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1356.48,"endTime":1360.41,"body":"what I call project creep, okay,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1360.41,"endTime":1363.71,"body":"that's where things get bigger,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1360.41,"endTime":1363.71,"body":"because we think, well, maybe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1363.71,"endTime":1368.45,"body":"someday I'm going to need this."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1363.71,"endTime":1368.45,"body":"An awful lot of our decision"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1368.45,"endTime":1373.19,"body":"making is based on an idea about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1368.45,"endTime":1373.19,"body":"a projected circumstance where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1373.19,"endTime":1379.49,"body":"we might need that. But that one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1373.19,"endTime":1379.49,"body":"time out of a five year period."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1379.85,"endTime":1383.57,"body":"Is that really sensible? I'll"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1379.85,"endTime":1383.57,"body":"give you my classic example. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1383.57,"endTime":1386.99,"body":"had one client who decided that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1383.57,"endTime":1386.99,"body":"she needed to powder rooms on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1386.99,"endTime":1391.61,"body":"the main level. And I was asking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1386.99,"endTime":1391.61,"body":"her, Well, why two? He said,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1391.61,"endTime":1394.37,"body":"Well, my kids, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1391.61,"endTime":1394.37,"body":"they come in from the yard,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1394.4,"endTime":1397.1,"body":"they're messy, and they'll mess"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1394.4,"endTime":1397.1,"body":"up the powder room. And if I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1397.1,"endTime":1401.48,"body":"have a guest over, then it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1397.1,"endTime":1401.48,"body":"gonna be all right. So I asked"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1401.48,"endTime":1407.51,"body":"her, so how many times you have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1401.48,"endTime":1407.51,"body":"guests over? Like, three or four"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1407.51,"endTime":1412.46,"body":"times a year? Just trying to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1407.51,"endTime":1412.46,"body":"help her see? So what are the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1412.46,"endTime":1415.22,"body":"chances that your children are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1412.46,"endTime":1415.22,"body":"going to have just used the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1415.22,"endTime":1419.75,"body":"powder room? And the guest is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1415.22,"endTime":1419.75,"body":"there? And is that worth six to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1419.75,"endTime":1427.97,"body":"$10,000? Right? It's it's that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1419.75,"endTime":1427.97,"body":"kind of, we project a world and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1427.97,"endTime":1431.24,"body":"then we think we have to design"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1427.97,"endTime":1431.24,"body":"for it. And I try to help people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1431.24,"endTime":1434.96,"body":"do the opposite. And look at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1431.24,"endTime":1434.96,"body":"what do I really need, right?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1435.56,"endTime":1438.83,"body":"And it's, and when I'm talking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1435.56,"endTime":1438.83,"body":"to tiny house people, I know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1438.83,"endTime":1441.14,"body":"there are people in your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1438.83,"endTime":1441.14,"body":"audience who this is already"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1441.14,"endTime":1444.05,"body":"their penchant for thinking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1441.14,"endTime":1444.05,"body":"about what they don't need."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1444.11,"endTime":1448.34,"body":"Yeah. So if it makes make it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1444.11,"endTime":1448.34,"body":"makes sense for you, it's got to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1448.34,"endTime":1452.75,"body":"be comfortable. It's got to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1448.34,"endTime":1452.75,"body":"enhance your life. But to if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1452.75,"endTime":1456.89,"body":"it's overboard, then see if you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1452.75,"endTime":1456.89,"body":"can pull back a little bit."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1457.13,"endTime":1459.89,"body":"Yeah. Well, there"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1457.13,"endTime":1459.89,"body":"are there are absolutely a lot"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1459.89,"endTime":1465.74,"body":"of people in my audience who are"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1459.89,"endTime":1465.74,"body":"kicking the tires, or they're"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1465.74,"endTime":1469.49,"body":"kind of, they're fascinated by"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1465.74,"endTime":1469.49,"body":"the tiny house movement. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1469.49,"endTime":1474.56,"body":"they might they're somewhere on"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1469.49,"endTime":1474.56,"body":"the stage the scale of I think"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1474.56,"endTime":1477.83,"body":"that's really cool, but I could"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1474.56,"endTime":1477.83,"body":"never do it or I would really"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1477.83,"endTime":1481.79,"body":"love to do that once. You know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1477.83,"endTime":1481.79,"body":"once my kids are out of the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1481.79,"endTime":1485.6,"body":"house, or once I retire, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1481.79,"endTime":1485.6,"body":"know, all the way up to Okay,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1485.6,"endTime":1487.07,"body":"I'm doing this this is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1485.6,"endTime":1487.07,"body":"happening."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1487.61,"endTime":1490.85,"body":"Right? Right."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1487.61,"endTime":1490.85,"body":"Right. And trying it is an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1490.88,"endTime":1495.11,"body":"immensely valuable experience."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1490.88,"endTime":1495.11,"body":"Even if you just do it for a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1495.11,"endTime":1496.07,"body":"year. Yes."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1496.25,"endTime":1501.62,"body":"Yeah, he really"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1496.25,"endTime":1501.62,"body":"can learn a lot from Living in a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1501.62,"endTime":1504.5,"body":"small space or living small in a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1501.62,"endTime":1504.5,"body":"different way?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1505.28,"endTime":1507.8,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1505.28,"endTime":1507.8,"body":"That's right. And the same is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1507.8,"endTime":1511.4,"body":"true with people who've lived in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1507.8,"endTime":1511.4,"body":"larger houses, just moving to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1511.43,"endTime":1517.82,"body":"2400 square feet or exam, right?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1511.43,"endTime":1517.82,"body":"It's also, it's the contrast"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1517.82,"endTime":1521.18,"body":"that makes you learn about your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1517.82,"endTime":1521.18,"body":"life in a different way than you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1521.18,"endTime":1522.32,"body":"could any other one. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1522.59,"endTime":1524.66,"body":"And it's all it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1522.59,"endTime":1524.66,"body":"all relative, as you've made the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1524.66,"endTime":1528.5,"body":"point. It's no like, going from"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1524.66,"endTime":1528.5,"body":"5000 square feet to 2500. It"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1528.5,"endTime":1529.58,"body":"might be all tiny."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1529.61,"endTime":1533.03,"body":"Yeah, it does to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1529.61,"endTime":1533.03,"body":"those people that have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1533.03,"endTime":1536.3,"body":"stuff because they've got to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1533.03,"endTime":1536.3,"body":"deal with the amount of stuff"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1536.3,"endTime":1538.58,"body":"they have, and then reduce that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1536.3,"endTime":1538.58,"body":"on. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1539.72,"endTime":1541.73,"body":"I'd like to tell"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1539.72,"endTime":1541.73,"body":"you a little bit more about Tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1541.73,"endTime":1545.69,"body":"House Decisions, my signature"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1541.73,"endTime":1545.69,"body":"guide, and the resource that I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1545.69,"endTime":1549.02,"body":"wish I had when I was building"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1545.69,"endTime":1549.02,"body":"my tiny house, it starts with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1549.02,"endTime":1552.11,"body":"the big decisions, which is, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1549.02,"endTime":1552.11,"body":"know, should you build a tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1552.11,"endTime":1557.15,"body":"house yourself or with help is a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1552.11,"endTime":1557.15,"body":"is a prebuilt. Shell a good idea"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1558.23,"endTime":1561.98,"body":"is a house on wheels better than"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1558.23,"endTime":1561.98,"body":"on the ground and what works"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1561.98,"endTime":1566.09,"body":"better for you deciding on the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1561.98,"endTime":1566.09,"body":"overall size, deciding on"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1566.09,"endTime":1569.03,"body":"whether you should use custom"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1566.09,"endTime":1569.03,"body":"plans or pre made plans,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1569.24,"endTime":1573.98,"body":"different types of trailers and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1569.24,"endTime":1573.98,"body":"more. Then in part two, we get"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1573.98,"endTime":1578.84,"body":"into the systems, so heat, wate"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1573.98,"endTime":1578.84,"body":"showers, hot water, toilets"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1578.87,"endTime":1584.12,"body":"electrical refrigeration"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1578.87,"endTime":1584.12,"body":"ventilation, and we're only tw"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1584.12,"endTime":1587.09,"body":"thirds of the way through th"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1584.12,"endTime":1587.09,"body":"bug at this point. From system"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1587.09,"endTime":1590.21,"body":"we go into constructio"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1587.09,"endTime":1590.21,"body":"decisions, talking about nail"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1590.21,"endTime":1594.56,"body":"versus screws, SIPs versus stic"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1590.21,"endTime":1594.56,"body":"framed versus advanced framin"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1594.56,"endTime":1598.79,"body":"versus metal framing, we talke"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1594.56,"endTime":1598.79,"body":"about how to construct a su"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1598.79,"endTime":1602.75,"body":"floor sheathing, roofin"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1598.79,"endTime":1602.75,"body":"materials, insulation, window"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1602.75,"endTime":1606.05,"body":"flooring kitchen, I know I'"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1602.75,"endTime":1606.05,"body":"just reading off the table o"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1606.05,"endTime":1609.2,"body":"contents. But I just want t"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1606.05,"endTime":1609.2,"body":"give you a sense of ho"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1609.2,"endTime":1612.95,"body":"comprehensive Tiny Hous"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1609.2,"endTime":1612.95,"body":"Decisions is. It's a total o"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1612.98,"endTime":1617.72,"body":"170 pages. It contains tons o"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1612.98,"endTime":1617.72,"body":"full color drawings, diagram"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1617.72,"endTime":1621.56,"body":"and resources. And it really i"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1617.72,"endTime":1621.56,"body":"the guide that I wish I had whe"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1621.56,"endTime":1625.49,"body":"I was building my tiny house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1621.56,"endTime":1625.49,"body":"Right now I'm offering 20% of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1625.49,"endTime":1628.94,"body":"any package of Tiny Hous"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1625.49,"endTime":1628.94,"body":"Decisions, using the coupon cod"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1628.94,"endTime":1633.5,"body":"tiny, when you head over to th"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1628.94,"endTime":1633.5,"body":"tinyhouse.net/THD. That's THD"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1633.53,"endTime":1637.22,"body":"for Tiny House Decisions."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1633.53,"endTime":1637.22,"body":"Again, that's coupon code tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1637.22,"endTime":1642.05,"body":"hen you check out at thetinyhou"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1637.22,"endTime":1642.05,"body":"e.net/THD."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1643.31,"endTime":1647.644,"body":"So in the house that I grew up"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1643.31,"endTime":1647.644,"body":"in, which was an old carriage"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1647.716,"endTime":1652.267,"body":"house that was converted into a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1647.716,"endTime":1652.267,"body":"residence was really was really"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1652.339,"endTime":1656.674,"body":"cool house. We sometime around"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1652.339,"endTime":1656.674,"body":"when I was maybe 12 or 13. We"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1656.746,"endTime":1661.225,"body":"took the kitchen table out of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1656.746,"endTime":1661.225,"body":"the kitchen and replaced it with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1661.297,"endTime":1665.704,"body":"a couch. Because right dinner"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1661.297,"endTime":1665.704,"body":"was always eaten at the counter"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1665.776,"endTime":1670.11,"body":"anyway. Yeah. And it just made"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1665.776,"endTime":1670.11,"body":"hanging out in the kitchen so"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1670.182,"endTime":1674.517,"body":"much easier, which is what we"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1670.182,"endTime":1674.517,"body":"all did anyway. Right? And you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1674.589,"endTime":1679.068,"body":"dedicate a lot you dedicate a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1674.589,"endTime":1679.068,"body":"good amount of space in the book"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1679.14,"endTime":1683.402,"body":"to talking about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1679.14,"endTime":1683.402,"body":"kitchens. Yes. And I'm curious."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1683.474,"endTime":1687.809,"body":"Why do people? Why is it that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1683.474,"endTime":1687.809,"body":"everybody likes to hang out in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1687.881,"endTime":1691.782,"body":"the kitchen, because the same"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1687.881,"endTime":1691.782,"body":"thing happens. Basically"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1691.854,"endTime":1695.9,"body":"everywhere. Everybody just goes"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1691.854,"endTime":1695.9,"body":"to the kitchen and hangs"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1696.11,"endTime":1699.29,"body":"out there? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1696.11,"endTime":1699.29,"body":"but it used not to be this way."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1699.32,"endTime":1704.09,"body":"That's the interesting part. It"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1699.32,"endTime":1704.09,"body":"because there's, if you look"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1704.09,"endTime":1709.22,"body":"back at the history of basically"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1704.09,"endTime":1709.22,"body":"domestic design, yeah, it used"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1709.22,"endTime":1714.23,"body":"to be that a kitchen was a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1709.22,"endTime":1714.23,"body":"really messy, smelly place. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1714.44,"endTime":1717.62,"body":"almost thought of in the same"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1714.44,"endTime":1717.62,"body":"way that one might think of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1717.62,"endTime":1721.64,"body":"bathroom. This seems impossible"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1717.62,"endTime":1721.64,"body":"to us, okay, dinner today, but"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1721.64,"endTime":1725.15,"body":"that was the mentality. A lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1721.64,"endTime":1725.15,"body":"the summer kitchens were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1725.15,"endTime":1731.15,"body":"actually outside because of that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1725.15,"endTime":1731.15,"body":"fact. So now with the when when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1731.15,"endTime":1734.72,"body":"the cooktop codes were were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1731.15,"endTime":1734.72,"body":"developed, and suddenly we were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1734.72,"endTime":1738.89,"body":"able to extract the smelly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1734.72,"endTime":1738.89,"body":"stuff, then it became part of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1738.89,"endTime":1742.76,"body":"living environment. I grew up in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1738.89,"endTime":1742.76,"body":"England, where at the time that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1742.76,"endTime":1750.17,"body":"I left in the 1970s, which dates"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1742.76,"endTime":1750.17,"body":"me there was there was not a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1750.2,"endTime":1754.64,"body":"of open kitchen plan. And then I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1750.2,"endTime":1754.64,"body":"moved to California, where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1755.03,"endTime":1760.13,"body":"everywhere was open. So that was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1755.03,"endTime":1760.13,"body":"a real discovery for me that you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1760.13,"endTime":1763.46,"body":"could have an open plan and a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1760.13,"endTime":1763.46,"body":"kitchen that was open to living"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1763.46,"endTime":1767.45,"body":"space. And then I started to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1763.46,"endTime":1767.45,"body":"notice how valuable that was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1767.48,"endTime":1772.31,"body":"because people could have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1767.48,"endTime":1772.31,"body":"multiple activities happening in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1772.31,"endTime":1776.33,"body":"the same place. Mom or Dad,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1772.31,"endTime":1776.33,"body":"whoever is cooking is not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1776.33,"endTime":1780.59,"body":"excluded from the family"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1776.33,"endTime":1780.59,"body":"gathering. And I think the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1780.59,"endTime":1784.73,"body":"reason the kitchen became such a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1780.59,"endTime":1784.73,"body":"focus is because we're social"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1784.73,"endTime":1788.87,"body":"creatures, and we spend a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1784.73,"endTime":1788.87,"body":"time cooking and preparing food"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1788.87,"endTime":1793.79,"body":"and so that became the natural"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1788.87,"endTime":1793.79,"body":"home for a lot of that family"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1793.79,"endTime":1797.15,"body":"activity. There's another thing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1793.79,"endTime":1797.15,"body":"that happens in parties"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1797.15,"endTime":1800.78,"body":"Incidentally, which is that when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1797.15,"endTime":1800.78,"body":"we're standing up We want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1800.78,"endTime":1804.56,"body":"lean on something. counters are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1800.78,"endTime":1804.56,"body":"perfect leaning place."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1805.07,"endTime":1806.75,"body":"There's no place"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1805.07,"endTime":1806.75,"body":"to put your elbow."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1807.68,"endTime":1810.56,"body":"That's why when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1807.68,"endTime":1810.56,"body":"you've got a small house, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1810.56,"endTime":1813.05,"body":"everybody is packed into the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1810.56,"endTime":1813.05,"body":"kitchen, it's because they've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1813.05,"endTime":1817.55,"body":"got a place to lean place to put"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1813.05,"endTime":1817.55,"body":"their drink a place. Yeah. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1817.58,"endTime":1821.72,"body":"exactly. And it feels sort of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1817.58,"endTime":1821.72,"body":"cozy. Yeah. Yeah, it was kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1822.05,"endTime":1825.17,"body":"naturally forced together. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1822.05,"endTime":1825.17,"body":"that feels good. Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1826.55,"endTime":1826.91,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1827.0,"endTime":1830.93,"body":"I was curious,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1827.0,"endTime":1830.93,"body":"you know, I feel like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1830.96,"endTime":1835.19,"body":"just acknowledging that your"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1830.96,"endTime":1835.19,"body":"kitchen is a social hub and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1835.19,"endTime":1838.49,"body":"saying, We don't need at this"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1835.19,"endTime":1838.49,"body":"table Anyway, let's put a couch"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1838.49,"endTime":1843.17,"body":"in it is almost like I wrote"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1838.49,"endTime":1843.17,"body":"down, Not So Big House hacks,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1843.44,"endTime":1848.6,"body":"like how can you without having"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1843.44,"endTime":1848.6,"body":"to renovate or build a new home?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1849.38,"endTime":1852.98,"body":"Do you have any other other"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1849.38,"endTime":1852.98,"body":"examples of things that people"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1852.98,"endTime":1856.55,"body":"do to kind of retrofit their"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1852.98,"endTime":1856.55,"body":"existing spaces?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1857.21,"endTime":1861.05,"body":"Yeah, there's,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1857.21,"endTime":1861.05,"body":"there's a lot of little things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1861.08,"endTime":1864.26,"body":"in there. Some of them are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1861.08,"endTime":1864.26,"body":"really obvious, but most people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1864.26,"endTime":1867.17,"body":"don't think about, okay, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1864.26,"endTime":1867.17,"body":"going to just say a couple of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1867.17,"endTime":1873.77,"body":"them these, when we have a room,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1867.17,"endTime":1873.77,"body":"that's called dining room, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1873.77,"endTime":1877.22,"body":"assume you're supposed to dine"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1873.77,"endTime":1877.22,"body":"in it. But most people in this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1877.22,"endTime":1881.75,"body":"country no longer use the dining"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1877.22,"endTime":1881.75,"body":"rooms for dining. So back, when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1881.75,"endTime":1885.26,"body":"I wrote the note, two big life,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1881.75,"endTime":1885.26,"body":"we used to get gobs and gobs of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1885.47,"endTime":1889.07,"body":"mail through us mail because we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1885.47,"endTime":1889.07,"body":"weren't getting email at the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1889.07,"endTime":1892.82,"body":"time. And so tables became the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1889.07,"endTime":1892.82,"body":"repositories of all of that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1892.82,"endTime":1897.65,"body":"mail. Nowadays, it's just the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1892.82,"endTime":1897.65,"body":"piles of stuff that that are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1897.65,"endTime":1902.54,"body":"accumulated over the course of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1897.65,"endTime":1902.54,"body":"our everyday living, but it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1902.54,"endTime":1908.09,"body":"still not really a dining. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1902.54,"endTime":1908.09,"body":"just taking the word dining off"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1908.09,"endTime":1913.64,"body":"it and see extra room extra,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1908.09,"endTime":1913.64,"body":"really simple, and then you can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1913.64,"endTime":1916.58,"body":"start thinking about it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1913.64,"endTime":1916.58,"body":"differently. Same thing with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1917.0,"endTime":1920.51,"body":"formal living room, if you've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1917.0,"endTime":1920.51,"body":"got a family room, then that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1920.51,"endTime":1925.19,"body":"living room can become an art"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1920.51,"endTime":1925.19,"body":"studio, or an in home office or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1925.22,"endTime":1931.1,"body":"a playroom for the kids or music"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1925.22,"endTime":1931.1,"body":"space. You know, you It takes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1931.1,"endTime":1934.94,"body":"your lid off your imagination"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1931.1,"endTime":1934.94,"body":"that allows you to start"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1934.94,"endTime":1935.63,"body":"thinking about it"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1935.63,"endTime":1936.89,"body":"differently."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1935.63,"endTime":1936.89,"body":"Music Room,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1936.92,"endTime":1940.01,"body":"that's that's for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1936.92,"endTime":1940.01,"body":"me. Yeah, yeah, that's right."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1940.1,"endTime":1942.5,"body":"I love those"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1940.1,"endTime":1942.5,"body":"suggestions. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1942.65,"endTime":1945.5,"body":"And there's one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1942.65,"endTime":1945.5,"body":"other related to the spare room,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1945.56,"endTime":1950.57,"body":"you know, an extra bedroom."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1945.56,"endTime":1950.57,"body":"Yeah, that room, if you've got"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1950.57,"endTime":1954.41,"body":"one. And I realized with tiny"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1950.57,"endTime":1954.41,"body":"houses probably isn't an issue,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1954.41,"endTime":1960.08,"body":"but you probably have some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1954.41,"endTime":1960.08,"body":"listeners for sure. At room sits"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1960.47,"endTime":1964.01,"body":"either empty or full of boxes,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1960.47,"endTime":1964.01,"body":"because it's a place where you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1964.01,"endTime":1967.58,"body":"can store the things you don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1964.01,"endTime":1967.58,"body":"have room for. If you make that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1967.58,"endTime":1972.56,"body":"room do double duty as an in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1967.58,"endTime":1972.56,"body":"home office. It's, it's then"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1972.56,"endTime":1976.73,"body":"used all the time rather than"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1972.56,"endTime":1976.73,"body":"very occasional. Yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1976.76,"endTime":1980.42,"body":"there's a bunch of things like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1976.76,"endTime":1980.42,"body":"that be an extra could be a TV"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1980.42,"endTime":1984.56,"body":"room, I call this an away room,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1980.42,"endTime":1984.56,"body":"place that you can go and be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1984.56,"endTime":1987.89,"body":"away from the rest of the family"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1984.56,"endTime":1987.89,"body":"if you want to for a quiet phone"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1987.89,"endTime":1992.66,"body":"call or to watch TV or listen to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1987.89,"endTime":1992.66,"body":"music or you know something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":1992.99,"endTime":1994.25,"body":"where you're out of the way."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1994.82,"endTime":1997.94,"body":"Yeah, and, and I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1994.82,"endTime":1997.94,"body":"love that concept of the away"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1997.94,"endTime":2002.62,"body":"room. And I've seen, I've seen"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":1997.94,"endTime":2002.62,"body":"it done in in tiny houses,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2002.62,"endTime":2006.58,"body":"either with kind of a second"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2002.62,"endTime":2006.58,"body":"loft that's at the other end of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2006.58,"endTime":2010.75,"body":"the right, the tiny house that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2006.58,"endTime":2010.75,"body":"just has like beanbag chairs, or"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2010.75,"endTime":2014.56,"body":"just comfortable seating and a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2010.75,"endTime":2014.56,"body":"place to read a book or play the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2014.56,"endTime":2015.07,"body":"guitar."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2015.19,"endTime":2019.48,"body":"Right. Right. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2015.19,"endTime":2019.48,"body":"when you have a small space, it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2019.48,"endTime":2023.53,"body":"doesn't make it less desirable,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2019.48,"endTime":2023.53,"body":"you know, that you have you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2023.53,"endTime":2027.31,"body":"almost need it more that I call"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2023.53,"endTime":2027.31,"body":"it a place of your own a place"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2027.31,"endTime":2031.78,"body":"to go and be by yourself"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2027.31,"endTime":2031.78,"body":"sometimes. That's hard, the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2031.78,"endTime":2032.89,"body":"smaller the house."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2033.37,"endTime":2037.66,"body":"Yes. Fabulous."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2033.37,"endTime":2037.66,"body":"And then I but I've always"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2037.9,"endTime":2042.16,"body":"thought, you know, okay, if I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2037.9,"endTime":2042.16,"body":"was going to make a go of living"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2042.16,"endTime":2046.78,"body":"in my tiny house full time with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2042.16,"endTime":2046.78,"body":"with my wife, who doesn't work"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2046.78,"endTime":2052.9,"body":"from home? Yeah, I would still I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2046.78,"endTime":2052.9,"body":"think I would probably build a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2052.9,"endTime":2058.39,"body":"shed and create an office, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2052.9,"endTime":2058.39,"body":"know, essentially an even tinier"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2058.48,"endTime":2062.47,"body":"smaller space. That is just a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2058.48,"endTime":2062.47,"body":"place that I can go to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2062.47,"endTime":2064.99,"body":"work. That's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2062.47,"endTime":2064.99,"body":"right. That's right. Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2064.99,"endTime":2069.01,"body":"In fact, I know several people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2064.99,"endTime":2069.01,"body":"who have tiny houses that are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2069.04,"endTime":2071.29,"body":"serving that function. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2069.04,"endTime":2071.29,"body":"yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2072.52,"endTime":2077.08,"body":"It can be nice to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2072.52,"endTime":2077.08,"body":"separate your work if you do"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2077.08,"endTime":2082.18,"body":"work from home to have that be"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2077.08,"endTime":2082.18,"body":"able to be isolated from the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2082.18,"endTime":2087.01,"body":"rest of your house because for"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2082.18,"endTime":2087.01,"body":"me, I, you know, it's too"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2087.01,"endTime":2090.91,"body":"tempting to check email again in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2087.01,"endTime":2090.91,"body":"the evening or to just hop onto"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2090.91,"endTime":2091.66,"body":"the computer."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2092.35,"endTime":2095.8,"body":"An awful lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2092.35,"endTime":2095.8,"body":"this says psychologic if we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2095.8,"endTime":2099.85,"body":"don't know that we're going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2095.8,"endTime":2099.85,"body":"work then our home life and our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2099.85,"endTime":2103.42,"body":"world. Life meld to such a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2099.85,"endTime":2103.42,"body":"degree that we don't there's no"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2103.42,"endTime":2107.47,"body":"distinction. And then if you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2103.42,"endTime":2107.47,"body":"workaholic, for example, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2107.47,"endTime":2111.04,"body":"never are off work. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2107.47,"endTime":2111.04,"body":"a lot of people today have that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2111.04,"endTime":2114.82,"body":"struggle just because we've got"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2111.04,"endTime":2114.82,"body":"devices that are on 24. Seven,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2114.82,"endTime":2119.14,"body":"and our emails being delivered"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2114.82,"endTime":2119.14,"body":"24 seven, and so we don't have a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2119.14,"endTime":2122.68,"body":"way of creating boundaries. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2119.14,"endTime":2122.68,"body":"we, we have to kind of do that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2122.68,"endTime":2126.37,"body":"without physical space. So that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2122.68,"endTime":2126.37,"body":"it's clear. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2127.45,"endTime":2130.06,"body":"Well, there are"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2127.45,"endTime":2130.06,"body":"some other \"Not So Big\""},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2130.06,"endTime":2133.18,"body":"principles that that you talked"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2130.06,"endTime":2133.18,"body":"about in the book, and I was"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2133.18,"endTime":2136.93,"body":"hoping we could kind of cover a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2133.18,"endTime":2136.93,"body":"few of them. Yeah, we've talked"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2136.93,"endTime":2138.79,"body":"about the away room, which was"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2136.93,"endTime":2138.79,"body":"great, because that was the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2138.79,"endTime":2142.72,"body":"first one I wrote down. Right."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2138.79,"endTime":2142.72,"body":"The other one, and maybe"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2142.87,"endTime":2147.13,"body":"similar. Related is is pojo."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2142.87,"endTime":2147.13,"body":"Place of your own."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2147.34,"endTime":2149.86,"body":"Yeah, right?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2147.34,"endTime":2149.86,"body":"That's right. Yeah, it's, so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2149.89,"endTime":2154.21,"body":"it's actually worth mentioning"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2149.89,"endTime":2154.21,"body":"the distinction, okay, in a in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2154.27,"endTime":2158.17,"body":"tiny house, they probably would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2154.27,"endTime":2158.17,"body":"be the same space. But in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2158.17,"endTime":2162.88,"body":"slightly larger house, the away"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2158.17,"endTime":2162.88,"body":"room is the spot where you can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2163.18,"endTime":2167.98,"body":"go and do something like the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2163.18,"endTime":2167.98,"body":"one, the example I often have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2167.98,"endTime":2171.1,"body":"is, you know, if kids are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2167.98,"endTime":2171.1,"body":"playing some sort of noisy game,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2171.4,"endTime":2174.55,"body":"they can go to the away room,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2171.4,"endTime":2174.55,"body":"you can close the doors, they're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2174.55,"endTime":2178.03,"body":"still close enough that you can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2174.55,"endTime":2178.03,"body":"monitor what's going on. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2178.09,"endTime":2181.87,"body":"they are not interrupting"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2178.09,"endTime":2181.87,"body":"everything else. So and so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2181.87,"endTime":2186.04,"body":"that's one function of the way."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2181.87,"endTime":2186.04,"body":"Another one is, you can go to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2186.07,"endTime":2189.55,"body":"watch television, while other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2186.07,"endTime":2189.55,"body":"stuff is happening in another"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2189.55,"endTime":2192.7,"body":"room. So you might have two TVs,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2189.55,"endTime":2192.7,"body":"you might have one in the in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2192.7,"endTime":2196.12,"body":"living room or family room, one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2192.7,"endTime":2196.12,"body":"in the away room, but it gives"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2196.12,"endTime":2200.14,"body":"you the option of being one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2196.12,"endTime":2200.14,"body":"place or the other without both"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2200.14,"endTime":2204.58,"body":"having to be doing the same"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2200.14,"endTime":2204.58,"body":"thing. It's basically a spot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2204.61,"endTime":2208.27,"body":"with acoustical privacy. Got it?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2204.61,"endTime":2208.27,"body":"That's what it's really doing."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2208.3,"endTime":2213.19,"body":"But it's not taking you so far"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2208.3,"endTime":2213.19,"body":"away, that you feel isolated."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2213.73,"endTime":2219.46,"body":"Yes, that's the away room. The"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2213.73,"endTime":2219.46,"body":"place of your own pee Oh, why"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2219.46,"endTime":2226.0,"body":"oh, that's for you is, is really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2219.46,"endTime":2226.0,"body":"a spot to go and be by yourself."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2226.42,"endTime":2229.45,"body":"There are a lot of introverts in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2226.42,"endTime":2229.45,"body":"this world. And this was really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2229.45,"endTime":2234.97,"body":"where this idea came from, by"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2229.45,"endTime":2234.97,"body":"being one of them. But once"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2234.97,"endTime":2238.33,"body":"you're married, suddenly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2234.97,"endTime":2238.33,"body":"everything is going property,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2238.33,"endTime":2243.82,"body":"and there's no place to just go."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2238.33,"endTime":2243.82,"body":"You know, a lot of guys still go"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2243.82,"endTime":2248.02,"body":"to that garages. The old sewing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2243.82,"endTime":2248.02,"body":"room really doesn't happen"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2248.02,"endTime":2253.06,"body":"anymore in the world of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2248.02,"endTime":2253.06,"body":"female world. And so we need"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2253.06,"endTime":2257.89,"body":"something our roles have sort of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2253.06,"endTime":2257.89,"body":"melded together, but we still"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2257.89,"endTime":2262.3,"body":"have this human need for some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2257.89,"endTime":2262.3,"body":"privacy. Yeah. And so it can be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2262.3,"endTime":2265.96,"body":"very small. It doesn't need to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2262.3,"endTime":2265.96,"body":"be a big space at all. But just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2265.96,"endTime":2272.26,"body":"a place where you can go paint,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2265.96,"endTime":2272.26,"body":"go meditate, read, journal,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2272.44,"endTime":2278.62,"body":"listen to music, whatever your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2272.44,"endTime":2278.62,"body":"particular love is. But that is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2278.65,"endTime":2283.03,"body":"an enormous benefit. It's almost"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2278.65,"endTime":2283.03,"body":"as valuable as for people that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2283.03,"endTime":2287.44,"body":"are nature lovers going for a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2283.03,"endTime":2287.44,"body":"walk, because it gives you that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2287.44,"endTime":2289.84,"body":"sense of recharge regeneration."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2290.47,"endTime":2293.41,"body":"Yeah, and both of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2290.47,"endTime":2293.41,"body":"these things, it just makes so"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2293.41,"endTime":2296.35,"body":"much more sense when you're if"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2293.41,"endTime":2296.35,"body":"you're designing a house from"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2296.35,"endTime":2299.44,"body":"scratch, rather than saying,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2296.35,"endTime":2299.44,"body":"okay, where's the dining room?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2299.44,"endTime":2302.89,"body":"Where's the living room? Yes?"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2299.44,"endTime":2302.89,"body":"Doesn't it just like these are"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2302.89,"endTime":2304.39,"body":"so much more useful?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2304.9,"endTime":2308.71,"body":"That's right. One"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2304.9,"endTime":2308.71,"body":"way you can design actually, is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2308.71,"endTime":2314.47,"body":"to drop every room name. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2308.71,"endTime":2314.47,"body":"instead, make a list of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2314.47,"endTime":2319.24,"body":"activities. And then design your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2314.47,"endTime":2319.24,"body":"house based on the places for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2319.24,"endTime":2325.42,"body":"activities, and that will shift"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2319.24,"endTime":2325.42,"body":"so much. Yeah, yeah. Totally."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2326.26,"endTime":2328.51,"body":"Yeah. Another"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2329.41,"endTime":2332.2,"body":"principle. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2329.41,"endTime":2332.2,"body":"you've already you touched on"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2332.2,"endTime":2335.26,"body":"this a little bit talking about"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2332.2,"endTime":2335.26,"body":"that third dimension, but is his"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2335.26,"endTime":2336.82,"body":"ceiling height variety?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2337.42,"endTime":2340.36,"body":"Yes, yeah, this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2337.42,"endTime":2340.36,"body":"is really important. It's that,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2341.11,"endTime":2344.47,"body":"you know, when we look at a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2341.11,"endTime":2344.47,"body":"floor plan, we assume we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2344.47,"endTime":2349.54,"body":"going to know what that house is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2344.47,"endTime":2349.54,"body":"going to feel like. But in fact,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2349.57,"endTime":2353.74,"body":"the information that tells you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2349.57,"endTime":2353.74,"body":"how it's going to feel isn't on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2353.74,"endTime":2357.82,"body":"the floor plan. The floor plan"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2353.74,"endTime":2357.82,"body":"is like a map of a city. It"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2357.82,"endTime":2361.84,"body":"shows you how to get your feet"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2357.82,"endTime":2361.84,"body":"from place to place and it shows"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2361.84,"endTime":2365.32,"body":"you whether your couch will fit."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2361.84,"endTime":2365.32,"body":"But it tells you nothing about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2365.32,"endTime":2369.01,"body":"the heights of things. And if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2365.32,"endTime":2369.01,"body":"you just walk through some of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2369.01,"endTime":2374.26,"body":"your favorite buildings, and be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2369.01,"endTime":2374.26,"body":"a house real library, look at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2374.26,"endTime":2378.52,"body":"pictures online, you'll see that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2374.26,"endTime":2378.52,"body":"there's another dimension that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2378.52,"endTime":2383.02,"body":"really affecting your experience"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2378.52,"endTime":2383.02,"body":"of the space. And that has to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2383.02,"endTime":2388.09,"body":"with height. So for example,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2383.02,"endTime":2388.09,"body":"when you have a kitchen table,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2388.42,"endTime":2391.51,"body":"if you've got a load ceiling"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2388.42,"endTime":2391.51,"body":"over that kitchen table, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2391.54,"endTime":2395.23,"body":"going I call this shelter around"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2391.54,"endTime":2395.23,"body":"activity. It's literally it's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2395.23,"endTime":2400.54,"body":"shelter, from which you can look"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2395.23,"endTime":2400.54,"body":"out at the rest of the world. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2400.54,"endTime":2404.53,"body":"it's it's, it's that word that I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2400.54,"endTime":2404.53,"body":"used earlier, you feel in a cozy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2404.59,"endTime":2410.59,"body":"sort of nest like space, but not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2404.59,"endTime":2410.59,"body":"constricted, because your view"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2410.59,"endTime":2415.21,"body":"is to an adjacent larger space."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2410.59,"endTime":2415.21,"body":"And it's the, it's the contrast"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2415.21,"endTime":2418.27,"body":"between the ceiling heights,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2415.21,"endTime":2418.27,"body":"though allows that to really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2418.27,"endTime":2421.84,"body":"work, right? In a tiny house,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2418.27,"endTime":2421.84,"body":"this can be even more important,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2422.14,"endTime":2427.81,"body":"because you can make less square"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2422.14,"endTime":2427.81,"body":"footage feel like much more by"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2427.81,"endTime":2432.43,"body":"changing ceiling height, this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2427.81,"endTime":2432.43,"body":"completely paradoxical, we would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2432.43,"endTime":2437.17,"body":"think, my goodness, if you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2432.43,"endTime":2437.17,"body":"taking cubic footage out by"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2437.17,"endTime":2440.65,"body":"dropping a ceiling isn't going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2437.17,"endTime":2440.65,"body":"to feel smaller. It doesn't it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2440.65,"endTime":2443.95,"body":"feels the opposite. Because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2440.65,"endTime":2443.95,"body":"you're then reading multiple"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2443.95,"endTime":2447.88,"body":"rooms, essentially, because the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2443.95,"endTime":2447.88,"body":"ceiling height changes. Yep. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2447.88,"endTime":2448.69,"body":"it's very clever."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2448.69,"endTime":2451.15,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2448.69,"endTime":2451.15,"body":"that's, that's something that I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2451.15,"endTime":2455.14,"body":"love in my tiny house that even"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2451.15,"endTime":2455.14,"body":"though there's a sleeping loft"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2455.14,"endTime":2461.38,"body":"at one end, when you walk in the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2455.14,"endTime":2461.38,"body":"front door, you are underneath a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2461.38,"endTime":2466.21,"body":"very shallow loft that has some"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2461.38,"endTime":2466.21,"body":"books and a plant and other like"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2466.21,"endTime":2469.93,"body":"a blanket up there. But it gives"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2466.21,"endTime":2469.93,"body":"you the sense of opening, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2469.93,"endTime":2474.28,"body":"know, first from this smaller"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2469.93,"endTime":2474.28,"body":"space into the great room."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2475.09,"endTime":2477.55,"body":"Exactly. That's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2475.09,"endTime":2477.55,"body":"right. You know, we're very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2477.55,"endTime":2480.52,"body":"fortunate in this country. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2477.55,"endTime":2480.52,"body":"we have a lot of Frank Lloyd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2480.52,"endTime":2484.78,"body":"Wright buildings that are open"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2480.52,"endTime":2484.78,"body":"to the public. He loved playing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2484.78,"endTime":2488.68,"body":"with ceiling height. So if you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2484.78,"endTime":2488.68,"body":"want to ever have a just test"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2488.71,"endTime":2493.0,"body":"test drive a house with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2488.71,"endTime":2493.0,"body":"ceiling height variety, go visit"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2493.0,"endTime":2494.62,"body":"one and you'll see what I mean."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2493.0,"endTime":2494.62,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2495.49,"endTime":2498.4,"body":"another one that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2495.49,"endTime":2498.4,"body":"that I think could be related to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2498.4,"endTime":2502.72,"body":"these different spaces, and also"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2498.4,"endTime":2502.72,"body":"probably useful in a tiny house"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2503.26,"endTime":2505.63,"body":"is the concept of of implied"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2503.26,"endTime":2505.63,"body":"walls."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2506.62,"endTime":2509.86,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2506.62,"endTime":2509.86,"body":"right, absolutely. So let's just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2509.86,"endTime":2512.53,"body":"talk about what that means"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2509.86,"endTime":2512.53,"body":"first, and then I'll give you an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2512.53,"endTime":2518.83,"body":"example. So when, when you're in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2512.53,"endTime":2518.83,"body":"a small space, and you want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2518.83,"endTime":2522.13,"body":"still have a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2518.83,"endTime":2522.13,"body":"privacy, you can be visual"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2522.13,"endTime":2525.82,"body":"privacy or acoustical privacy,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2522.13,"endTime":2525.82,"body":"we normally think of a solid"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2525.82,"endTime":2531.01,"body":"wall. But a solid wall then"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2525.82,"endTime":2531.01,"body":"makes everything feel a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2531.01,"endTime":2535.0,"body":"smaller, because you've suddenly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2531.01,"endTime":2535.0,"body":"divided the space into two or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2535.0,"endTime":2541.09,"body":"three pieces. So when when space"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2535.0,"endTime":2541.09,"body":"is already small, if you create"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2541.09,"endTime":2545.53,"body":"an implied wall that can be with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2541.09,"endTime":2545.53,"body":"a lattice, where you can see"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2545.53,"endTime":2548.83,"body":"through it, it can be with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2545.53,"endTime":2548.83,"body":"bookshelves that are open on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2548.83,"endTime":2552.82,"body":"both sides. It can even be a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2548.83,"endTime":2552.82,"body":"Venetian blinds that you bring"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2552.82,"endTime":2556.36,"body":"down from the ceiling, and you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2552.82,"endTime":2556.36,"body":"can open it or close it, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2556.36,"endTime":2559.84,"body":"think of them as for Windows,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2556.36,"endTime":2559.84,"body":"but you can make a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2559.99,"endTime":2565.18,"body":"room divider just using a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2559.99,"endTime":2565.18,"body":"Venetian blind that is an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2565.18,"endTime":2569.59,"body":"implied wall. It's telling you I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2565.18,"endTime":2569.59,"body":"there's something here that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2569.59,"endTime":2574.33,"body":"divides this from that, but it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2569.59,"endTime":2574.33,"body":"permeable so that you have the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2574.33,"endTime":2577.9,"body":"choice of it in the in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2574.33,"endTime":2577.9,"body":"Venetian blind example it's all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2577.9,"endTime":2581.05,"body":"the way up and it's not there at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2577.9,"endTime":2581.05,"body":"all or it's down but it's open"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2581.08,"endTime":2584.23,"body":"then you can see through or it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2581.08,"endTime":2584.23,"body":"closed and then you have visual"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2584.23,"endTime":2588.37,"body":"separation obviously not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2584.23,"endTime":2588.37,"body":"acoustical in that case but it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2588.4,"endTime":2592.63,"body":"it's a way of giving a sense of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2588.4,"endTime":2592.63,"body":"more space because you've got"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2592.63,"endTime":2597.82,"body":"multiple functions with their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2592.63,"endTime":2597.82,"body":"own definition nice"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2598.51,"endTime":2601.15,"body":"why there are so"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2598.51,"endTime":2601.15,"body":"many principles i'd love I don't"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2601.15,"endTime":2603.01,"body":"I don't think we have time to go"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2601.15,"endTime":2603.01,"body":"through them all but there"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2603.04,"endTime":2606.43,"body":"there's one that is a staple of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2603.04,"endTime":2606.43,"body":"the tiny house world which is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2606.46,"endTime":2607.42,"body":"his double duty."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2608.29,"endTime":2611.8,"body":"Yes, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2608.29,"endTime":2611.8,"body":"We have to do double duty yes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2611.86,"endTime":2615.91,"body":"with any time you've got a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2611.86,"endTime":2615.91,"body":"smaller area if you can make one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2615.91,"endTime":2621.13,"body":"thing do two things or three"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2615.91,"endTime":2621.13,"body":"things it's going to be a more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2621.13,"endTime":2624.85,"body":"useful space and so just like I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2621.13,"endTime":2624.85,"body":"was talking about a little bit"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2624.85,"endTime":2630.61,"body":"ago with the In Home Office comm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2624.85,"endTime":2630.61,"body":"guest bedroom there are millions"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2630.61,"endTime":2633.01,"body":"of ways we can do this and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2630.61,"endTime":2633.01,"body":"there's some incredible"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2633.01,"endTime":2639.52,"body":"inventions of furniture that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2633.01,"endTime":2639.52,"body":"transforms into a from coffee"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2639.52,"endTime":2643.96,"body":"table to you know the end of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2639.52,"endTime":2643.96,"body":"bed that folds down and the bed"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2643.96,"endTime":2646.51,"body":"folds on top of it etc just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2643.96,"endTime":2646.51,"body":"wonderful stuff."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2646.84,"endTime":2649.9,"body":"Yeah, there's a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2646.84,"endTime":2649.9,"body":"lot of really cool transforming"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2649.9,"endTime":2655.18,"body":"furniture and there was there"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2649.9,"endTime":2655.18,"body":"was a time kind of early early"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2655.18,"endTime":2659.05,"body":"in the tiny house movement where"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2655.18,"endTime":2659.05,"body":"it seemed like everyone it was"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2659.05,"endTime":2662.83,"body":"like not a tiny house unless you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2659.05,"endTime":2662.83,"body":"had it was called the IKEA nawbo"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2662.83,"endTime":2668.08,"body":"table. It was just a very simple"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2662.83,"endTime":2668.08,"body":"birch drop with that you mounted"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2668.08,"endTime":2670.69,"body":"to the wall and it's just can be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2670.69,"endTime":2674.32,"body":"up or down. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2670.69,"endTime":2674.32,"body":"that's right. Exactly."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2674.59,"endTime":2677.26,"body":"And I yeah, I was"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2674.59,"endTime":2677.26,"body":"planning to build one myself and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2677.26,"endTime":2681.67,"body":"then I like it was obviously at"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2677.26,"endTime":2681.67,"body":"the end of the project. And the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2681.67,"endTime":2686.47,"body":"IKEA one is like so inexpensive"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2681.67,"endTime":2686.47,"body":"and works exactly the way that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2686.47,"endTime":2690.16,"body":"it needs to and I like I'm just"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2686.47,"endTime":2690.16,"body":"gonna Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2691.99,"endTime":2694.87,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2691.99,"endTime":2694.87,"body":"right. And you know, I think one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2694.87,"endTime":2699.37,"body":"of the things about small spaces"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2694.87,"endTime":2699.37,"body":"is that it really encourages"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2699.37,"endTime":2704.47,"body":"invention. And you know, you've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2699.37,"endTime":2704.47,"body":"seen some of these amazing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2704.47,"endTime":2708.31,"body":"little apartments in places like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2704.47,"endTime":2708.31,"body":"Hong Kong, where they're just,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2708.55,"endTime":2711.58,"body":"yes, they've used everything so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2708.55,"endTime":2711.58,"body":"cleverly,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2711.73,"endTime":2714.22,"body":"it's a cabinet"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2711.73,"endTime":2714.22,"body":"makers dream or nightmare."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2714.25,"endTime":2715.57,"body":"Absolutely. You"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2714.25,"endTime":2715.57,"body":"got"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2718.72,"endTime":2724.15,"body":"one more that I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2718.72,"endTime":2724.15,"body":"think that speaks to maybe why"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2724.18,"endTime":2728.59,"body":"tiny spaces feel good? Which is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2724.18,"endTime":2728.59,"body":"the the sense of shelter?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2730.24,"endTime":2733.33,"body":"Absolutely, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2730.24,"endTime":2733.33,"body":"we, you know, one of the things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2733.33,"endTime":2736.99,"body":"that's really at the root of all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2733.33,"endTime":2736.99,"body":"of my books, and these design"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2736.99,"endTime":2740.83,"body":"principles that we're talking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2736.99,"endTime":2740.83,"body":"about right now, is that our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2740.83,"endTime":2745.99,"body":"human bodies were developed in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2740.83,"endTime":2745.99,"body":"caveman days, where we needed to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2745.99,"endTime":2750.22,"body":"feel a sense of safety and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2745.99,"endTime":2750.22,"body":"security in our environments."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2750.22,"endTime":2755.41,"body":"And so we tend to pick things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2750.22,"endTime":2755.41,"body":"that make us feel secure. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2755.74,"endTime":2760.09,"body":"And a smaller space. Although,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2755.74,"endTime":2760.09,"body":"in our present day world, a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2760.09,"endTime":2762.88,"body":"of people would say, Well, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2760.09,"endTime":2762.88,"body":"don't want to be confined, when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2762.88,"endTime":2766.42,"body":"you actually try it, when you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2762.88,"endTime":2766.42,"body":"actually live in that cozier,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2766.42,"endTime":2770.26,"body":"smaller space. There's something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2766.42,"endTime":2770.26,"body":"incredibly satisfying to that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2770.26,"endTime":2774.1,"body":"part of us that's, that knows"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2770.26,"endTime":2774.1,"body":"that it's not always a friendly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2774.1,"endTime":2778.81,"body":"world. And so that, that is what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2774.1,"endTime":2778.81,"body":"I think the tiny house movement"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2778.81,"endTime":2784.24,"body":"has really touched into. And for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2778.81,"endTime":2784.24,"body":"those of us that have tried it,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2784.27,"endTime":2787.84,"body":"we know that it works. Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2784.27,"endTime":2787.84,"body":"feel really, really good and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2787.84,"endTime":2790.0,"body":"protected. Yeah, absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2787.84,"endTime":2790.0,"body":"I'm,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2790.51,"endTime":2796.21,"body":"I'm always struck"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2790.51,"endTime":2796.21,"body":"by how much kids love my tiny"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2796.21,"endTime":2802.15,"body":"house, like, absolutely leave"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2796.21,"endTime":2802.15,"body":"the loft, because it's like,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2802.36,"endTime":2807.19,"body":"they get to climb up a ladder"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2802.36,"endTime":2807.19,"body":"and then be in this room. That"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2807.19,"endTime":2811.78,"body":"is like, they can't even stand"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2807.19,"endTime":2811.78,"body":"up in. But it's just this like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2812.71,"endTime":2816.58,"body":"that's right. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2812.71,"endTime":2816.58,"body":"often say you know, if you want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2816.58,"endTime":2819.79,"body":"to find out what's most"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2816.58,"endTime":2819.79,"body":"interesting space in your house,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2819.85,"endTime":2824.11,"body":"release a five year old for five"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2819.85,"endTime":2824.11,"body":"minutes, they will be in it. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2824.11,"endTime":2824.74,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2826.42,"endTime":2828.1,"body":"Release the five"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2826.42,"endTime":2828.1,"body":"year olds."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2831.1,"endTime":2833.53,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2831.1,"endTime":2833.53,"body":"children have an innate"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2833.62,"endTime":2836.77,"body":"understanding of what it is that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2833.62,"endTime":2836.77,"body":"really we're talking about here."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2836.8,"endTime":2840.79,"body":"Yeah, it's just we still have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2836.8,"endTime":2840.79,"body":"that programming. Yeah, we just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2840.79,"endTime":2845.11,"body":"as adults, forget, like a little"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2840.79,"endTime":2845.11,"body":"disconnected from it. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2847.39,"endTime":2848.2,"body":"Well, you,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2848.23,"endTime":2852.01,"body":"as you've"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2848.23,"endTime":2852.01,"body":"mentioned, \"Not So Big\" has has"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2852.01,"endTime":2859.27,"body":"become a concept that has gone"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2852.01,"endTime":2859.27,"body":"beyond just houses. Right. And"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2859.3,"endTime":2862.09,"body":"another one of your books is is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2859.3,"endTime":2862.09,"body":"\"Not So Big\" life."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2862.99,"endTime":2865.51,"body":"That's right,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2862.99,"endTime":2865.51,"body":"which That's right, is"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2866.47,"endTime":2869.59,"body":"ironically, many"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2866.47,"endTime":2869.59,"body":"people who are thinking about"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2869.62,"endTime":2872.8,"body":"living in a tiny house, probably"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2869.62,"endTime":2872.8,"body":"that one should really come"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2872.8,"endTime":2874.87,"body":"first before the Not So Big"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2872.8,"endTime":2874.87,"body":"House."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2875.68,"endTime":2878.29,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2875.68,"endTime":2878.29,"body":"it's it takes things to a whole"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2878.29,"endTime":2883.51,"body":"different level, I wrote the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2878.29,"endTime":2883.51,"body":"\"Not So Big\" life, after, let's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2883.51,"endTime":2886.33,"body":"see what it would have been nine"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2883.51,"endTime":2886.33,"body":"years after the Not So Big House"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2886.33,"endTime":2890.14,"body":"for first came out. But what I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2886.33,"endTime":2890.14,"body":"say in the \"Not So Big\" life is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2890.14,"endTime":2893.68,"body":"I couldn't have started writing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2890.14,"endTime":2893.68,"body":"these books, if it hadn't been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2893.68,"endTime":2899.23,"body":"for starting to pay attention to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2893.68,"endTime":2899.23,"body":"my own patterns of living. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2899.23,"endTime":2902.98,"body":"so the\"Not So Big\" life is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2899.23,"endTime":2902.98,"body":"really a way of looking at how"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2902.98,"endTime":2907.39,"body":"to remodel your life. To make"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2902.98,"endTime":2907.39,"body":"room for what really matters,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2907.42,"endTime":2910.87,"body":"where the house design books"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2907.42,"endTime":2910.87,"body":"were all about how to make room"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2910.87,"endTime":2915.07,"body":"for what really matters, right?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2910.87,"endTime":2915.07,"body":"But it's a completely different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2915.1,"endTime":2919.84,"body":"view. except we're looking at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2915.1,"endTime":2919.84,"body":"the process of that we do with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2919.84,"endTime":2923.62,"body":"construction or with remodeling."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2919.84,"endTime":2923.62,"body":"But look at how do we do this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2923.62,"endTime":2926.95,"body":"with our own lives? And it's,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2923.62,"endTime":2926.95,"body":"there's a lot there. And I have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2926.95,"endTime":2930.61,"body":"a feeling that a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2926.95,"endTime":2930.61,"body":"who are attracted to the tiny"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2930.61,"endTime":2934.42,"body":"house would probably find that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2930.61,"endTime":2934.42,"body":"lots of big life really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2934.42,"endTime":2935.02,"body":"valuable."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2935.77,"endTime":2940.18,"body":"Yeah, certainly."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2935.77,"endTime":2940.18,"body":"And that because that is a big"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2940.18,"endTime":2945.67,"body":"challenge for for everyone, even"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2940.18,"endTime":2945.67,"body":"if they're completely sold on"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2945.67,"endTime":2950.35,"body":"living in 200 square feet. That"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2945.67,"endTime":2950.35,"body":"is, you know, it is difficult to"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2950.35,"endTime":2954.91,"body":"get rid of your stuff and to let"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2950.35,"endTime":2954.91,"body":"go of certain. Yeah, things that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2954.91,"endTime":2958.45,"body":"you own that in your mind, you"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2954.91,"endTime":2958.45,"body":"say I need this in case I'm"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":2958.45,"endTime":2960.01,"body":"going to do that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2960.34,"endTime":2963.49,"body":"after the habit."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2960.34,"endTime":2963.49,"body":"That's right. Right. But one of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2963.49,"endTime":2967.0,"body":"the things that I talked about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2963.49,"endTime":2967.0,"body":"in the \"Not So Big\" life, at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2967.0,"endTime":2973.15,"body":"least in my point towards this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2967.0,"endTime":2973.15,"body":"is that this is all in a in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2973.15,"endTime":2978.46,"body":"way a game. We can do. We can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2973.15,"endTime":2978.46,"body":"play. We can try something."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2978.49,"endTime":2981.37,"body":"Yeah, that's what I was saying,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2978.49,"endTime":2981.37,"body":"you know, tries pry a tiny house"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2981.37,"endTime":2985.24,"body":"for a year. Allow yourself to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2981.37,"endTime":2985.24,"body":"play because you learn things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2985.24,"endTime":2990.22,"body":"that you couldn't possibly know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2985.24,"endTime":2990.22,"body":"until you try it. And so really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2990.28,"endTime":2995.2,"body":"a lot about a lot of the nuts a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2990.28,"endTime":2995.2,"body":"big life is having you let go of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2995.2,"endTime":2999.58,"body":"the things that you believe to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2995.2,"endTime":2999.58,"body":"be true or say absolutely. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2999.58,"endTime":3005.52,"body":"have to have just tried try"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":2999.58,"endTime":3005.52,"body":"playing and you will find that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3005.52,"endTime":3008.13,"body":"things are much much more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3005.52,"endTime":3008.13,"body":"flexible than you've ever"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3008.13,"endTime":3008.79,"body":"conceived."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3009.48,"endTime":3011.67,"body":"Yeah it's it's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3009.48,"endTime":3011.67,"body":"beautiful It's kind of like"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3011.7,"endTime":3016.41,"body":"getting curious in Not So Big"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3011.7,"endTime":3016.41,"body":"House you talked about getting"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3016.41,"endTime":3019.83,"body":"curious about spaces and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3016.41,"endTime":3019.83,"body":"carrying a tape measure even in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3019.83,"endTime":3023.43,"body":"measuring them Yes. Right and"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3019.83,"endTime":3023.43,"body":"then it's almost like doing the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3023.43,"endTime":3025.92,"body":"same thing but just in your own"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3023.43,"endTime":3025.92,"body":"life"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3026.1,"endTime":3028.92,"body":"your life that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3026.1,"endTime":3028.92,"body":"right it's exactly what it is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3028.95,"endTime":3032.1,"body":"and it'll give you that book if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3028.95,"endTime":3032.1,"body":"you really engage it will take"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3032.1,"endTime":3033.72,"body":"you on quite a journey. Cool"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3035.4,"endTime":3040.11,"body":"Are you Are there"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3035.4,"endTime":3040.11,"body":"any new \"Not So Big\" books in"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3040.11,"endTime":3041.01,"body":"the works right now?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3041.79,"endTime":3044.07,"body":"You know, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3041.79,"endTime":3044.07,"body":"haven't been writing any"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3044.07,"endTime":3047.88,"body":"recently but I do a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3044.07,"endTime":3047.88,"body":"workshops these days on the not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3047.88,"endTime":3052.89,"body":"too big life material. Nice. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3047.88,"endTime":3052.89,"body":"so that's where my my a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3052.89,"endTime":3056.58,"body":"my writing happens in blogs and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3052.89,"endTime":3056.58,"body":"things like that these days."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3057.03,"endTime":3059.7,"body":"Right there will be more but I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3057.03,"endTime":3059.7,"body":"don't know if they'll have \"Not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3059.7,"endTime":3060.96,"body":"So Big\" in the tight Okay."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3061.14,"endTime":3067.74,"body":"Okay. Well one"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3061.14,"endTime":3067.74,"body":"thing that I like to ask all my"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3067.74,"endTime":3072.45,"body":"guests is, are there any books"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3067.74,"endTime":3072.45,"body":"or other resources that that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3072.45,"endTime":3075.54,"body":"have inspired you lately that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3072.45,"endTime":3075.54,"body":"you'd like to share with with"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3075.54,"endTime":3076.32,"body":"the listeners?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3076.38,"endTime":3080.94,"body":"Oh, boy, let's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3076.38,"endTime":3080.94,"body":"think um I'll tell you this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3080.94,"endTime":3085.44,"body":"isn't so much recently but for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3080.94,"endTime":3085.44,"body":"people who are interested in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3085.86,"endTime":3091.44,"body":"tiny houses, I would encourage"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3085.86,"endTime":3091.44,"body":"you to take a look at a not very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3091.44,"endTime":3096.27,"body":"well known author but his name"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3091.44,"endTime":3096.27,"body":"is Azby Brown. He's lived in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3096.27,"endTime":3100.2,"body":"Japan for he's American but he's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3096.27,"endTime":3100.2,"body":"lived in Japan for a lot of his"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3100.2,"endTime":3106.29,"body":"life. And he has a couple of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3100.2,"endTime":3106.29,"body":"books on small spaces and they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3106.32,"endTime":3111.57,"body":"are spectacular in helping you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3106.32,"endTime":3111.57,"body":"to think through how to use less"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3111.57,"endTime":3116.13,"body":"space and make it feel like more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3111.57,"endTime":3116.13,"body":"so he's really been he's learned"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3116.13,"endTime":3120.57,"body":"so much from the Japanese and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3116.13,"endTime":3120.57,"body":"their use of space in very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3120.57,"endTime":3123.51,"body":"clever ways and doing double"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3120.57,"endTime":3123.51,"body":"duty Yeah, and they're beautiful"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3123.51,"endTime":3127.41,"body":"books and for those that are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3123.51,"endTime":3127.41,"body":"really hard for about you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3127.41,"endTime":3131.22,"body":"just the sustainability of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3127.41,"endTime":3131.22,"body":"whole picture he's also got a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3131.22,"endTime":3136.56,"body":"book called Just Enough which is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3131.22,"endTime":3136.56,"body":"actually about a his period in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3136.56,"endTime":3140.7,"body":"Japanese history where they had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3136.56,"endTime":3140.7,"body":"to make do with almost nothing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3140.85,"endTime":3145.05,"body":"and the abundance that came out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3140.85,"endTime":3145.05,"body":"of that process is what the book"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3145.05,"endTime":3147.99,"body":"in parts it's one of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3145.05,"endTime":3147.99,"body":"books of all time. Wow,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3148.44,"endTime":3151.23,"body":"that's a that's a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3148.44,"endTime":3151.23,"body":"strong recommendation. I will"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3151.23,"endTime":3151.95,"body":"check that out."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3151.98,"endTime":3153.93,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3151.98,"endTime":3153.93,"body":"most people don't know they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3153.93,"endTime":3156.66,"body":"exist I I'm the only person I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3153.93,"endTime":3156.66,"body":"ever heard talk about."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3157.14,"endTime":3160.47,"body":"Well, now a few"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3157.14,"endTime":3160.47,"body":"more people hopefully will."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3162.24,"endTime":3162.84,"body":"Wonderful."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3163.62,"endTime":3166.5,"body":"Sarah Susanka."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3163.62,"endTime":3166.5,"body":"Thank you so much for taking the"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3166.5,"endTime":3167.79,"body":"time to be on the show."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3168.569,"endTime":3171.059,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3168.569,"endTime":3171.059,"body":"if any your guests are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3171.119,"endTime":3175.079,"body":"interested, for finding"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3171.119,"endTime":3175.079,"body":"architects, we have a home"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3175.079,"endTime":3179.549,"body":"professionals directory on my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3175.079,"endTime":3179.549,"body":"website, susanka.com. And lots"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3179.549,"endTime":3183.179,"body":"and lots of resources that will"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3179.549,"endTime":3183.179,"body":"help people to make their own"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3183.179,"endTime":3185.639,"body":"houses not too big. Or even"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3183.179,"endTime":3185.639,"body":"tiny."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3185.879,"endTime":3188.129,"body":"Wonderful. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3185.879,"endTime":3188.129,"body":"thank you. That's that's great"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3188.129,"endTime":3192.269,"body":"to know. And after, after this"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3188.129,"endTime":3192.269,"body":"interview ends, people will hear"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3192.269,"endTime":3196.649,"body":"me say where they can go and I"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3192.269,"endTime":3196.649,"body":"will post links to your website,"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3196.649,"endTime":3199.799,"body":"your books. Anything else that"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3196.649,"endTime":3199.799,"body":"you send me will be on the show"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3199.799,"endTime":3202.679,"body":"notes page for people to kind of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3199.799,"endTime":3202.679,"body":"get all in one place."},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3203.49,"endTime":3206.73,"body":"Fantastic. That's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Susanka","startTime":3203.49,"endTime":3206.73,"body":"wonderful. Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3207.75,"endTime":3210.48,"body":"Thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3207.75,"endTime":3210.48,"body":"to Sarah Susanka for being a"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3210.48,"endTime":3213.99,"body":"guest on the show today. You can"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3210.48,"endTime":3213.99,"body":"find the show notes from today's"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3213.99,"endTime":3217.83,"body":"episode, including a complete"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3213.99,"endTime":3217.83,"body":"transcript and links to all of"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3217.83,"endTime":3221.55,"body":"Sarah Susanka has wonderful"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3217.83,"endTime":3221.55,"body":"books at thetinyhouse.net/185."},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3221.55,"endTime":3227.25,"body":"Again, that's that thetinyhou"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3221.55,"endTime":3227.25,"body":"e.net/185. Well, that's all"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3227.61,"endTime":3230.76,"body":"or this week. I'm your host, Et"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3227.61,"endTime":3230.76,"body":"an Waldman. And I'll be back"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3230.79,"endTime":3233.61,"body":"ext week with another episode o"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3230.79,"endTime":3233.61,"body":"the Tiny House Lifestyle P"},{"speaker":"Ethan Waldman","startTime":3233.61,"endTime":3235.17,"body":"dcast."}]}