Ep. 244 Ben O’Brien NSW Police Officer

On today's  Zero Limits Podcast host Matty Morris chats with Ben O’Brien NSW Police Officer 

After graduating from the police academy in 2012, he began his career at Harbourside LAC. Ben moved into plain clothes proactive policing early, working undercover operations across Kings Cross and Oxford Street, and later leading drug dog operations at major festivals. Returning to uniform, he spent years on the frontline attending critical incidents—domestics, suicides, fatal accidents, armed offenders, and large-scale public disorder.

His career included secondments to specialist units like the Redfern Region Enforcement Squad and the Criminal Groups Squad within State Crime Command, contributing to major drug investigations and covert operations including police band! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:16

It's time for the Zero Limits Podcast, hosted by an Australian veteran. Chatting with high-charging humans with hectic stories from around the world. We'll give you the motivation to take on whatever life throws at you in the kick to complete any goal you set your mind to. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Zero Limits listeners. On today's Zero Limits podcast, joined in the guests by a 14-year New South Wales police veteran. Now, his name's Ben O'Brien. You may have seen his stuff uh code read on a on Instagram. Now, we've recorded once before. As you might know as a listener, I do everything. I do the editing, I do when I do video, I do the video, I do everything. And I'm an inventory guy, want the best with technology, taught myself absolutely everything. Anyway, I never never thought it was possible for a uh micro SD card to lose just to die. I I I don't know. I don't know how that works. And if there's a scientist or a tech geek out there somewhere that can tell me how how something of that size can just stop working. Please let me know because I went into a rage. Anyway, we recorded a podcast previously a couple of weeks ago. Card went to shit, lost a couple of podcasts on it. And there's a whole story to it as well. I was just showing Ben just now. There's a little springy device thing in the back of the thing, and it shot out. I went home, tested on laptops, didn't work, came back to the studio, put it back in the system, it shot out, and there was this little hole in the studio, and I thought it went down this. Oh, it was just a ropeable day. Back to Ben's story of 14 years in the uh in the I was about to say the Defense Force, 14 years in the New Stars Police, including a stint at Bandcamp. Gotta love Bandcamp. It is terrible. Everyone loves band camp. If it's uh anything like American Pie, it might be good. But uh Ben mate, welcome back again. No, thanks for having me back again. Yeah, mate. Uh uh, you know, apologies and appreciation of you coming back up, but also again, like I said, apologies because I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Technology, you can't trust it.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

I know, and now for the this is for the first time ever, I've got a backup recording system. Sometimes I have used those little road mics you can clip on. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got sound, you know, can sometimes distort and play through the microphone. So now it's connected up to the iMac, and hopefully, for whatever reason this crashes, we've got a backup copy. Backup's always good. Fingers crossed. Now, mate, I've spoken about uh 14 years in the New Sales Police and quite a you know a busy time doing all that uh G a lot pr pr predominantly um general duties and uh a lot of plain clothes stuff, which we'll definitely talk about, mate. But however, as always, before we start off with your career in New Sales Police, let's get back to young Ben, mate. Where did you grow up and run me through that younger life?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yeah, young Ben. I grew up on the North Shore of Sydney. I was very lucky for that. Mum and dad had worked their asses off. They they came from up Maitland way. Well, mum was an army brat, so she moved around a lot. And dad's a Maitland boy, so I was very privileged that they're bloody hard workers and got to grow up on the North. And to get out of Maitland. Yeah, that's where I live. Oh mate, if you if you talk to my old man, Maitland's still the place to be. It is, mate, it's pretty good. I'd take the Maitland out of the boy. But yeah, so grew up there with got there's four kids in my family, so busy family. Um went to school on the North Shore. Um what school? Uh I went to a couple, started off as did you?

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Yeah, I did. Um some of that maitland rubbed off on you.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yeah, me and the old man chalk and cheese.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah. Went to a school called Barker College to start with. Um wasn't my scene. Um now I'm older. Geez, I really stuffed up a good opportunity there. But yeah, in year 10, the end of year 10, got the tap on the shoulder from the principal to move on from the school. So it was one of those leave gracefully before you get expelled. I think my last five weeks at the school, I had five sad day detentions. So I was just we just playing up in class type thing. Playing up in class, fighting, fighting a few, yeah, one person in particular. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I was I was a tiny little bloke, so people thought they could pick on me because I was so little and my old man gave me the green light eventually. He's like, yeah, just unleash.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

It's Maitland genetics.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, it is. So yeah, that that was kind of like the final straw for the private schools. Um, so I left there, did a couple of months at TAFE doing the easiest course you could pick. I think it was business administration or something like that. It was a certificate three, you just learn how to do spreadsheets. Um old man said, gotta get a job. I was like, no, I don't want to do that. So I'll find another school to go to because I still had 11 and 12 to go. So I ended up at a school called Tarumara High, which my folks said they want me to go to any school but Tarama High.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

They have a reputa a reputation, did it?

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Yeah, like it's still the North Shore, but it was the school that where everyone got expelled from.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

The dregs went.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Yeah, that's where you end up. I was like, yeah, stuff it. I want to go there. So that was good. I loved it there. I learned absolutely nothing, but had fun, got a good bunch of mates from there, a few of them like I'm still in regular contact with. Um finished year 12, didn't get HSE. I think they give it called a certificate of attainment. So it means you did the time, but you did sweet nothing while you're there. So yeah, that's that's where I ended up. What uh what years are we talking here? Uh so I graduated 07, the Kevin 07 year.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Oh, yeah, did you?

SPEAKER_01 8:04

That's how I remember it.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you finished 07, not so good at school. Did you have any concept, you know, any uh view on what you were planning to do for the rest of your life, or was it just um I always as a kid wanted to join defence.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

That was my dream job. Um I was mad keen on it. Um where did that come from? Uh well my family's got defense. You said your mum's dad was Yeah, mum's dad. So going right back, my old man's uncle, so my great-great uncle, he landed on Gallipoli in World War One. Oh shit. Um then going over to Mum's side, my granddad was World War II. Uh he did invasion of Sicily, all of New Guinea. He he did absolutely japs up. Yeah, oh I think they did a fair bit of toweling as well. There's other stories he tells me. Um but yeah, he did. He served from 39, the 1939 to 1937. So he did post-war as well.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Oh, so th so you said 39 to 37, 39 to 40. 47.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

It can't even count.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

So he did oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

So he did a massive stint. He did a big stint. Yeah, right. And then an even like a fun not a funny story, but he was oh I were in Sydney and he got put on HMAS Cuttable to to bunk up, and he went a little A-WOL that night to go see my grandma, and that's when the Japanese midget sumps blew it up. Oh, no way. So he's come back the next morning. Granny said the night. Yeah. Like, I wouldn't be here today if he he didn't do the little wander off.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

So yeah, we've all been there.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Oh he told me some funny stories from back in those days. But then, yeah, on my dad's side, my granddad, he tried to sign up for World War II, but he was a miner up in the Hunter. Oh, so he was uh critical trade. Yeah, yeah. So they wouldn't let him, and he was not happy about that. So he was gonna quit being a miner and join, and they said, nah, that that's not how this works. So yeah, only one grandfather went to World War II. Um uncle went to Vietnam. Um, and my other uncle was an army man up in Brisbane. He was a lifer. So yeah, a lot of defense backgrounds. Yeah. So policing, nothing. Uh well, granddad, he um he finished up World War II, discharged, and became a minister of religion. So he became minister with the Salvation Army. I think he might have had a come on a god moment during the war, and he's like, if I can get out of here. I'm sure he would have a few times. Yeah. So he became a minister, and then I think he must have missed the itch of defence, and so then moved over to become a padre based out of Holsworthy. So that was through the Vietnam years. He was the padre out there. Um he moved around a bit, and that's where mum moved around as a bit of an army brat because he just they stayed on bases all over the place. But his main posting was Holesworthy. And then post that he became a the padre for the police. Oh, did he? Yeah. Yeah, right. So he was in the first batch of official New South Wales police chaplains. So that was always around. And back then he was on call all the time as a chaplain. So he had the blue whirly bird in the car, he had a police radio in the car, uniform good to go. So I was always hearing stuff from him, and my old man always had police mates, but all his m mates that I would hear stories about are ex-coppers or coppers. So really, my surrounding was defence and cops. That was always there.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

You can only imagine some young cop coming up to your granddad as a padre going, oh I'm I'm a bit sad. Let me tell you about sad, son. Let me tell you about the Pacific, mate. But they're the kind of people you want as a partner. 100%. Real world experience. Yeah, been there, done that, and then you know, uh it probably would have been doing the same thing for the Vietnam, but oh, I got blown up. Oh, harden up, young fella. I think that's every generation. My first time.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Every generation reckons a new one is softer than they were actually.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

They're different human beings back then. Yeah. They're just different purebred toxic masculinity, which I love. Saving the world. Yeah, mate. They were just just men. You know, like like you said, you know, your your other grandfather pretty much was pissed off that he couldn't go to war because he was a minor. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like he was chomping at the bit to get into it. And there were kids lying, 12, 13, 14, saying they're 18, 40. Fighting Germans. Like fully trained. Getting metal gallantries and oh wild. It's it's crazy, mate.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

But you know, like I agree, there was the best generation where we had 100%.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

100% compared to what have we got people pretending to be cats now. Compared to the unitex tourists now. Um, so you've obviously got that history within your your family, both defence and you know, the the around the police as well. And you know, you you spoke about having the defence, you know, on your in your vision, however, you know, you end up joining the cops. This is 2011. So what's happening, you know, that a couple of years you got what you got four years in the civilian world. Are you working or you playing up?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

No, I was playing up big time. Um, it's a part of my life I am not proud of whatsoever. Like I look back on it now and I'm disgusted of who I became. So post-high school some Maitland genetics again. I'm just gonna blame old man for everything.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

It's just genetics, mate. You can't get that dirt out of you.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Oh, it's yeah. He wasn't happy with the way I turned out, but yeah, it was I I was I started rebelling. So my family, because a granddad was a minister, was religious. I grew up in the the Salvation Army in the church, was a good a good boy for a long time, and then hit high school and went the opposite way. And then once I finished high school, I pulled away from my close schoolmates and started hanging out with a pretty shit crowd. Um as an understatement, uh, absolute grubs that like later on they'll pop on up on the Intel spreadsheets at work. Well were they? Shit. Oh, they'll we were up to just stuff like street crime, broken innards breaking the cars, drugs, drink, just shit bag teenage behaviour. So I I got I got caught into that crowd, and like the main thing back then was the gate crash parties. We loved it. Like you'd if there was nothing to do, we'd gate crash a party, have a punch on, steal the grog, happy days. Yeah. And then one night we gate crashed this party. It was in Pimble, I think it was, and um there was a punch on, mate was getting flogged, I jumped in through a couple, and I got grabbed from behind, like in this bear hug, and I was like, shit, I'm about to get smashed. So I've flown an elbow back and I don't know where I got got old mate, but it was a copper who'd come in to break up the party, and I got f absolutely toweled up. Like towed up. Anyway, next thing I know, I'm in the back of the paddy wagon, and literally everything in my life had just gone through my head, and I'm like, old man's gonna flog me, my mum's gonna hate me. I was just a disgrace. And I was like trying to work out how I was gonna explain what was going on. Next minute the van pulls over, and um they ditched me in a car park of an oval, and it was like if anyone knows the North Shore, there's like real bushy areas, and it was like this bush track into the car park, and like kicked me out and drove off, and I had no idea where I was, and it was only around the corner, and something about that changed the whole projectory of my life. Like I didn't care about anyone else or anything um that happened, and I was like, I really need to switch on like I I'm I think I was about 19, 18, 19 at the time. I was like, this is not a life that I've been brought up to be. Yeah. And like people might criticize old school policing, but that flogging I got changed my life completely. Left out in the middle of nowhere. Like it was good. Like it wasn't it didn't feel good at the time. But yeah, I was on a one-way street to nowhere at that stage. Um it was just gonna be a one-way street to getting locked up, basically. Um so yeah, cut that group away, which wasn't as easy as I thought it would be. It was got my car trashed and oh did it? They turned hard.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah, they turned hard. Um almost like a little gang type thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah, or wannabe gang. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like back then you would said we we would have said we were. Yeah. But once you become an adult, you'll listen to it.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

It's all a real gang staunch yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Until you actually deal with real gangs, you go, oh yeah, shoot, they're just crappy kids. So yeah, after that, I started hanging back out with my schoolmates. And like we weren't angels, but they weren't crooks. Like we just had a lot of fun. Just boys, yeah. Yeah. Boys doing boys stuff, like muck around. We used to just hang out in the bush all time, build build bush bases, yeah, yeah, make guns, and I always slingshots, yeah, yeah. Just causing a ruckus on the street. Um and then one day one of my mates from school he's he hit me up and he's like, Oh, do you want to come do an open day down at Golden? The police are doing an open day. And I was like, Yeah, why not? Got nothing else going. So me, his name was Caleb and Steve his brother. We jumped in my car, did a little roadie down to Golden, and they had the open day down there, and it was I loved it being down there. Like I didn't like what they showed, they had TOU, they had dog squad, they did all sorts of demonstrations and it was pretty sick. So me and Caleb grabbed they had an application envelope with all these questions and paperwork and what what to do. So we grabbed that and I went back to Sydney and that night started filling it out. And then it was just a change like within a couple of months my life had turned around. Complete 180. From those cops. Yeah, from those Kering guy coppers.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny you say that because probably about just quickly side story. Yeah, 10 something years ago I was with Nitro Circus up on the Gold Coast. Uh, two athletes come to me, you know, whenever they got in trouble in town and stuff, they'd all just, you know, they'd call me straight away and tell me what's going on. Yeah, because I'd I'd go and fix whatever issue they had. The Mr. Fixer. Mr. Fixit. And they call me and they end up getting arrested and um put in the back of paddy wagon, driven out to somewhere, and they must have been gobbing off in the back of the paddy wagon as you do. You can't do this and fuck you, and blah blah blah. So apparently the cops pulled over, uh got out the back, opened the back door, took his belt off, took everything off, and offer offered them out. And they were in tears. Like when they when they called me, it's like they were just so scared. I'm like, I was I was I was warm in the heart.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, I started feeling good.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

I was warm. I was like, that's how that's what policing should be. Yeah, you want to gob off, fucking here's your time to fight a cop. Do it. It's like that movie uh end of watch where he fights fights that creep.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

And then he takes his belt off and goes for it.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Yeah, that's I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Yeah, like I've I worked with people that were mad keen on the justice system where no matter what happened, throw them in the dock, send them to court, even for little things, like they'll just always we've got to arrest them, blah blah blah. The courts do sweet enough innit these days, clogging the system up, and then the cops I worked with when I was junior that dished out a bit of street justice.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Some kids need it.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Mate, it's I'm testament to it. Like I can say it works. Yeah, like there's a there's a fine line between uh pulling someone into line and just being a thug. Like I got no time for cops that just want to bash people. That's next level. Yeah. But a good attitude adjustment. That's it. Mate, it works for wonders for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

I think that's not even just policing, anything in general life, it's parents should be doing some character adjustment on the kids. Some people just need a punch in the face. That's 100% right. You know, it's funny here like again, another story. I was 17, snuck into a pub anyway, got found out, bouncer beat the shit out of me. I never fucking never did that again. Yeah, never snuck into a pub again. I remember going back when I turned 18, apologised. And then I still get that oh, you know, when I was bouncing in the clock nightclub doors up here in uh Newcastle and you'd flog someone, allegedly, and you know, they'd come back two weeks later and apologize, and they'll be your best friend for the next forever. And that's it, their character has been adjusted.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

That's it. Attitude adjustments straight away. And like it it really varies on person to person. Of course, some people's language is communication, and the only way you can get through to them is with logic and talking and communication skills. Gay. Yep. Uh but some people literally just need a clip. And then that's the language they speak. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

So it works. So for you, as you said, you've gone out you've gone down to the academy for this open day with your mate, and you both come back home, fill out the application form, submit it, and obviously you get a phone call and they're like, oh, we've got to come in for an interview.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Back then it was an email, got an email saying you've been successful through the first phase. Then there's it was an online thing with the professional suitability stuff, so you had to declare or not declare certain no, no. Everything's no. Um, and then we went in for our fitness and psych tests, and everything back then it was really rushed. Like I only took four or five months from putting filling out the first form to getting down to the academy. Like I I don't remember waiting too long. And I don't think we had an interview back then, it was all just through paper.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Was it? Yeah, right. Because it was just a rush. Obviously, they were built trying to build the police force and oh yeah, and we had huge classes. Huge class, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

So you do all the testing, blah, blah, blah, get accepted in offered your uh Academy date down in uh Golden.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah, which was Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Oh, was it?

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah, so poor mum. Yeah. Dropped me off on Mother's Day. Yeah. Um, but it was good, me and my mate Kale. We both got into the starting together. So it was really good having that tight mate down there. Yeah, yeah. Um there was a huge class when we got down there. Like any of New South Wales cops that have been to the Academy, or all have, but the listening. We got the basketball auditorium, the whole auditorium was packed, plus the gr the stands up the top, like the grandstands. It was full to the brim. And it was I loved it. There was a sergeant that comes out, the pro head of protocol, senior sergeant Mark Elm. And I know him well.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Yeah. We chatted a few times, yeah. Absolute legend of a human. But he came out and he's he was that drill instructor, wasn't he? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

He's the drill guy. Knife hand man. Yeah. Like he just told us it was, and like he wasn't brutal in my eyes, but he he set down the law of what's expected of us at the academy, what's expected of us as a cop. And I loved it because his mannerisms were so much like my old man that it was like comfortable. I was just like, oh yeah. My old man's on a on a mish. He's just like, Sergeant Hell. Anyway, we went to bed that night, came back the next day, and half the grandstand was gone. Like the people just packed up their bags and went home. I was like, what the f doesn't make sense. And so we had our first three or four days of orientation, getting told stuff. And each morning there was less and less people in the aitorium. They just packed up bags and went. Which just baffled me because it wasn't that bad. It wasn't that bad. Yeah. Went through the effort to get down there, and they couldn't even get through a week. Like it's prop like props to them. At least they didn't go out in the street. It's better, it's a better money. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Right. And that that you know, I guess that's the whole point of the academy is to weed out.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Same for the defence force, you know, going through Kapuka's to weed out people that are not suited for the job. Like you said, rather than getting to a station doing a week, seeing a dead body and going, oh, that's not for me. Yeah, all the resources. All that money, yeah. All that money's gone, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

So yeah, everything's it dwindled down. We still had a big class. And so yeah, we then cracked onto all that theory and and how did you find you speak about theory, how did you find your you know, pretty shit at school?

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

And just on that, you're obviously being shit at school, you only got that certificate attainment of, you know, basically saying, Yeah, you went to school. Yeah. How did you go getting into the police with that lower grade, or did you do TAFE or could that work and then have the study go in the academy?

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah, so because I did that couple of months at TAFE when I l left the private school, I was able to scrape through with that certificate three of whatever it was. That got me over the mark because I finished year 12 and had a certificate three, that somehow accumulated to get me in.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Which lucky.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Like I was just doing it to fill time and to get my old man off my back about getting a job, but it got me into the cops, which thank God for that. But yeah, I'd I struggled academically, like I'd I'd never studied in my life, I didn't understand it. Um I understood everything at the academy. It was just getting it sunk in for an exam that was was hard, but I wasn't the only one. Like me and my group of mates down there were all pretty similar kind of dudes, all from the same kind of background. We all not all of us struggled, but we got to the end of session one and we had all our exams, and I failed lore by one and a half marks, which I think it equated to like one multiple choice question or something, or two multiple choice questions. Yeah. And back then there was no resits or remarks, it was just fail. So I found out I'd failed while I was on my SPO, so when we were out at the station doing your work experience kind of thing, so that was a punch in the guts. Um, because of that, we had to go down the next session and do the whole session time frame by just law. So our I passed everything else, so that stayed current, it was just law. But when we got down there, it was there was 125 of us that had failed that exam. Oh shit. Which it was it was cool because all your mates were down there. Yeah. Like I thought I was gonna start having to meet new people again, but yeah, there was a lot of us down there. So they started a whole new law class just of the ones that had failed because now that session was chock a block full of people. So that that was agonizing because it was just the whole time frame again, but just for one subject, it was painful. And so then once we set the one law exam again, then we could move into session two.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yep, yep. What's it what what's sorry, what's in in an exam?

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Is it just like what are you learning about legislation and legislation, your your powers of arrest, your powers to search, your powers of seizure? Yep. Um there'd be like a scenario-based question. So it's like this, this, this, what, what laws, what power do you have to do this? A heap of multiple choice questions about like your powers with your appointments, your firearm, your OC spray, your cuffs. Just everything you can throw into there. I'm not sure what it's like now, like that's a long time ago, but that's the that's the gist of what the exams were like. Yep. Then we had different ones for like traffic as well. So there was a specific traffic exam, I think there was an ethics exam. Morals and ethics. Yeah, they all sucked. Like, I just hate studying. It hurts. It hurts so much.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Can't you just j chat GPT that stuff these days? You're sitting in a police car and it's like, oh, what can I book this person for?

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Literally. Chat GPT. But then once you get out on the streak, it a lot of it goes, but the fundamentals are in your head.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

You know someone's done something wrong or right. And you'd probably be using the same legislation or the same you know things over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

So you especially like your domestic stuff and your powers to stuff. It's the same same shit, different day, corner.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Yeah. Yeah, right, mate. So as you spoke about, you obviously had to go back and do this session. However, during that time you were on your placement, where was this at?

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Yeah, so they sent you to your local station for your placement. So I got put on at Chatswood Police Station, and it was pretty non-eventful because it was the middle of winter. It just there was domestics, noise complaints, like mobs at the train station, but nothing that stands out as being exciting, or it was good just to get the lay of the land, just like how actual policing is behind closed doors and out of the academy. And I was still keen as like I was like, yeah, this is the job I want. Yeah. So it was good, but I didn't get any good stories or experiences out of it. It was more just learning curves of how they operate.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

How how long's that placement for? That was two weeks back then. So two weeks. So at least you yeah, you get to understand the life of a a cop inside a station when they get a call and what they're doing, and blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

And you do the shift works as well, shift works over two days, two nights. So you kind of you learn if your body can actually keep up with that or not. Yeah. And not off-roth it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Yeah, it's funny because I've had a you know a bunch of cops on the podcast, and some have like yourself that have gone for these placements and they've been quite boring and just and then I've had some that have just gone to like three or four fucking murders in a row straight up, just copy. It's just blown, get him, he shouldn't be here. Doctor Death. Uh, yeah, right, mate. So you do your placement in regard to the academy. I had you find all the other stuff, physical and firearms. Yeah, all the other stuff.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Oh, I ate it up. I loved it. Firearms, fitness. I wasn't an athlete, but I got through. It was just another thing. Um, your death tack, so your defensive tactics and training. Love that. Like it was intimidating as hell with they have the red man down there, and that was brutal back then, like actually brutal. Um but it was good because it prepared us for what was going out there when when we're going back on the street. Like it wasn't softy softy, it was the sergeant we had as our red man was a hard mofo, and he he towed us up something severe, but it was good. I still have like red man PTSD now, I think. I see things on Instagram, like a someone dressed up, it's like, oh, that was a shit time.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

But no, the firearms was good, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

First time shooting a gun?

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

Legally.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Yeah, so that was first time firing a handgun. Yeah. So it was I loved it. I was really good to start with, and then as we got closer to the exams, anyone with firearms knowledge, when little mistakes with a handgun have big differences on target, so the more nervous you got towards exam time, it started going downhill. But there were good old school weapons instructors down there that could just I grew on the range a fair bit back then, so yeah, got through it no problem. But yeah, I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

From there, mate, how so how long's the whole academy process?

SPEAKER_01 34:59

So it's meant to be nine weeks, but because I did three sessions, yeah. Oh, it's nine, sorry, nine weeks each session. So mate, I'm not good at maths. I didn't get HSC.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

How many sessions are they?

SPEAKER_01 35:11

So there's meant to be two sessions down there. So I did three. Yeah. And with the gaps in between me and my mates, we ended up being down there for almost a year.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Shit.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

It's a crap place. Yeah. No offense to anyone in Golden, but it's just not good.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Yeah, especially for that amount of time. And from there, you obviously get your preferences and what station you want to get posted to. What did you put down?

SPEAKER_01 35:35

So we get to put four preferences. So I put Northern Beaches, North Sydney, Castle Hill, and Ride, I think it was. Oh no, Keringy. Kering was the last one. Back to the old stomping ground. And I got my second preference, which was North Sydney. So can't complain with that. Yeah. Some people got absolutely destroyed with their placements. But no, I was a lucky one.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Yeah, yeah. And when we talk placements, this is like New South Wales wide as well, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

So they can send you anywhere they can send you anywhere. So you put down four where you want to go, but if there's a need somewhere else, you're gone. Yeah. You're just out there. Yep. Which happened to a lot of people, but of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Yeah, luck of the drawing. Scored lucky. You do your march out of the academy, mate, head to your station for the first time. Run me through this first uh, you know, first walk into the station.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Oh mate, the walk-in was daunting as hell. Um, so we get all our gear and we have to take it up to the station that day, straight from the academy. And I walked in and the cop at the front counter was a bloke that I used to go to school with that I broke his nose when I was at the private school. Um we had a fair few run-ins, and like the last one was a decent one. That pretty much got me out of got me asked to leave the school. So I've walked in nervous already, then I'm like, oh shit. Like, this is not gonna be good. So that that made me even more nervous. I'm like, shit, everyone's gonna start knowing about how shit I was as a teenager. Yeah, he was a proby. So he was two classes, two or three classes in front of me.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

So it's not too bady, not too bad. Yeah, he's got no leg over you or anything.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Nah, thank God. Yeah, go yeah, and I'll tell you what, the funniest thing was on my very first day, like I was shitting myself. Like, it's like a school kid going into the big bit big boys club, open up the locker, I'm putting all my stuff there, and this older bloke comes out of the shower butt naked. And you could tell he like he was a crusty dude, like old school copper. I was like, what the f what's going on here? Anyway, he gets to the locker next to me, opens up his stuff, and he goes, Oh, g'day. I'm blah blah blah. And I was like, Oh, hi, I'm Ben. He goes, I got two words of advice for you for this career. I was like, Oh yeah, what is it? He goes, the first one is the greatest enemies from within. Remember that. I was like, gee, this guy's morbid. He goes, number two, always carry a drop knife. And I was like, what the frick have I just got myself into? And he's like, nice to meet you, have a good one. He was just scaring the shit out of me. But it worked, like you have a towel on at least. No, it was nothing, just but naked. Like I was I didn't know what was going on. Like in hindsight, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

It's just a stitch up, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Yeah, probably were shitting themselves. But yeah, at the time that was Daunton. But yeah, so we kicked off first couple of days orientation. It was boring as hell. And then straight into it. Like my first proper shift was a night shift, and yeah, off we go.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

And you're uh a third wheel, are you still? Or was this?

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Yeah, so you're three up at first.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

I think it's for the first six weeks, pretty sure. So have you field training officer, their offsider, and then you and the then you in the back, just soaking it all in.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yeah, you're like a kid with your parents, just yeah, don't talk, yeah, just be seen and not heard for that first three up period. But yeah, the first night shift we had a we thought it was a murder. We rock up, now it was this dude in the wheelchair with a knife through his eye. Holy shit. He was dead, and so we had to hold a crime scene for that all night. He was dead, yeah. He was dead. Yeah, and um turns out it was a self-harm. Oh shit. He did himself in through his eyeball.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Shit. That's commitment like again. Spoken about this on other podcasts in regards to trauma and blah blah blah, and seeing all that stuff. I know for a fact that you know they don't show too much in the academy. Yeah, we didn't have any exposure to stuff. Pretty wild, because again, they'll go back to the the 90s and the early 2000 cops, and they were going to morgues and had one bloke. Well, had one bloke participate. They're like the someone didn't turn up, so they're like, Oh, can you just put some gloves on and just hold this stuff? He's like, Oh fucking, it's going to be a cop, not a so is this the first time you're seeing trauma and I guess the the real world of policing?

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Like, holy shit. Yeah, it's the first time I'd seen that kind of level of trauma. It wasn't too bad because another crew had got there first, so everything was crime scened off, so it was kind of watching from a distance. And when you think it's a homicide, everyone's super careful about what you touch, what you touch, where you are, who's around. So yeah, we got to check it out, but it was it wasn't close to home kind of thing. It was being young, like I was end of my 21. So it's kind of cool back then. You're like, fuck, this is something new. So yeah, that one sometimes just escapes my memory because it was your first day, you're so overwhelmed, sensory over sensory overload. But yeah, it was the first time I'd seen a trauma-related death.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Yeah, and self-inflicted too, suicide.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah, I couldn't believe that. I couldn't like when I got told, I was like, no way.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Yeah, stab yourself in the face. Well, the eyeball. I know. I'm just thinking about now, like, holy shit. Yeah, it was that's weird. Yeah, that is weird. Just I don't know, make it easier. I don't know, drown yourself. I don't know, but probably don't. No, look probably just probably just keep kicking. Stay alive, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

It's gone dark quick.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Yeah, right. So, you know, this is your first what is this first week on the job, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Yeah, that'd be my that was my first shift on the road. So, yeah. Kicked off with a bang kind of thing. Yeah, like it wasn't exciting, it wasn't like a wild police chase or something, but that was kind of like, yeah, right, this is what we're doing, kind of thing. So yeah, and then everything just kicked off afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

And what about your first arrest? Do you remember it?

SPEAKER_01 42:39

Yeah, my first arrest was graffit for graffiti. Oh yeah, yeah, it was it was a funny shit bag, but he was graffiting up the trains when they were parked up down near down near Lunar Park, there's old train tracks that they saw trains down at. And um, we got a call in and my partner rock up, and this old this young fella's got, you know, the weed sprayers that you pump? Yeah, that full of paint, and he's painting it up with that, and I was like, that's commitment. Anyway, flick the lights on, he's done the Harry Holt, and I was I was keen ass. I was out of that car as quick as I could. Foot photos, got a good wrestle out of it. Old mate got absolutely shredded because it was middle of summer, and he was wearing shorts and a singlet, and we had a full-on wrestle on the ground, and he was he was gravelled rash, gravel rash from head to toe. Now, I remember one point tried to get into the fetal position, and what offside has ripped his legs out, but his knees, it was just brutal, all for a freaking graffiti, yeah. But as a young fella, as your first chuckle cussle on yourself, that was it was a good one. I like his name was Thomas. Oh, you remember him? Yeah, I remember him because he was just a regular was his art good though, nah.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

That was shit, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

So he deserved to get BMS, yeah, and he never stopped doing stupid crime, just like stupid shoplifting, tried to be a hard bloke and rob people and would end up getting flogged for it by the person he's trying to rob. Like he was just a terrible crook, yeah, but we're always dealing with him after that one, so yeah, remember his name well.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

So you obviously arrest him, take him out to the cop shop and run all the paperwork and blah blah blah. How'd you find that side of things? You know, especially over your career. I'm sure you arrested a ton of people over 14 years.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Yeah, it was like it never for me, the paperwork sucks. Yeah. Like it's just it's it builds up, especially like I loved my proactivity, like getting out there and hunting crooks, and it's all well and good doing that, but the paperwork just builds and builds and builds. And mate, shout out to the current JD's coppers out there at the moment. Because I was I was chatting to a couple not long ago about their workload, and it's next level, even compared to when I was in, which wasn't that long ago, their workload is Yeah, everything's outstanding. Everything's outstanding. They've got jobs lined up, they've still making proactive arrests, they got their DV arrests. So I struggled back then, and it was our workload when I started wasn't that big. Yeah. But you get the hang of it, but still, it sometimes it's good where you've cleared everything off your workload, and sometimes it all just hits, and if someone wants to plead not guilty, you've got to do your brief of evidence and your statements, but then you still got to go out and copy jobs at the same time. So yeah, the paperwork's I think in any job, paperwork just sucks.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

Yeah, I'm surprised, eh? I know I know there's places in the United States where the cop doesn't do the paperwork. They do their statement, they go back to station and it's all offloaded.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Yeah, onto uh civil.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

There's like some states in the States where the civilians or whoever's in the station, they take care of all that. All that and the the boys and girls are back on the street on the street. Logical. That'd be the dream. It is logical too.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Cost money, it won't happen.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

I'll spend something money on something stupid. Who knows with that librarian as a police minister? Anyway. Now mate, uh was this your first uh first week on the job. How'd you go over the next how long how long are you at the station for?

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Uh I was at I was at that station for five years. Five years, yeah shit. So but I so I came in and out of plain clothes, went to an honest. So I was around the place, but on paper. I was there for the five. Yep. But yeah. But no, the the first year was that was pretty full-on. It was pretty funny. It's you say it's funny, it's probably not funny. People would give us shit when we got posted to North Sydney saying, Oh, the latte sippers, you're not gonna have any work, or enjoy early retirement, all that kind of crap. It wasn't crap, it was lattes are good out there. Can confirm, but one of my mates I graduated with, he got bottled at a shoplifter job. Well, three months in the cops. He went to a shoplifter and this guy had a wine bottle, just smashed his head open and made the claret and the blood everywhere. Poor Craig, he copped it good. And then that was a Friday, I'm pretty sure. I was working the day shift Sunday, and as we do, we all went for coffee in the morning. So he says, Yeah, three months in the cops, and the supervisor, there's two cars on. Supervisor said, Oh, guys, it's a bit weird that Craig got bottled. We all need to watch out for our officer safety, yada yada yada. We're like, yeah, whatever. Um urgent domestic comes over. One of the first car crew gets there, and they're they're talking to the suspect. So we're like, oh, we'll swing past, have a little geeze. Went up there, and there was this bloke. He was iced off his tent, like sweating, the foaming, all that kind of stuff. And I heard one of the cops there say, Oh, mate, you're under arrest, gave him the caution. So I'm like, hell yeah, I'll go slap the cuffs on this blow. Being the keen little probationer I was. Got the first cuffed on on the first wrist, then I've pulled his second hand down, and as the metals touched his wrist, I almost just exploded and just cut free. And it was on like Donkey Kong. So he's striked out and kicked one of the female cops who had a taser and dislocated her knees. So she's dropped like a sack of shit. We've got into a wrestle, got him on the ground, he swung out and punched my offsider, who was another female senior constable who she had a taser as well, and punched her in the arm, and it snapped her arm in half, like it just went flop.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

Fuck around.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

So he's on that super super ice power, yeah, super junky. But that was cooked because that was our two tasers out of play. So they're rolling around on the ground, understandably, like they'd been knocked up. So me and another bloke were trying to wrestle mate on the ground. There's a loose handcuff flying around, got a good little puncture hole in my hand from the swinging arm, and then I could hear the other cop was like on my shoulder, and I could hear him making weird noises and yelling, and I've swung my head across and he was getting choked out with his radio cord. So old mate had it was the old vest that had a zip, and then there would be a couple of buttons that clip it over. So we used to run our cord up that middle bit. Somehow we'd unclipped it, and he was just choking old mate out with his own cord. So that turned into a big dust up. Like we're punching the daylights out of him. He ended up latching onto me, biting onto my hand and just mauling my hand, which that sucked. Um ended up un opened up a whole can of OC spray onto him. But this was the inexperience straight up. I had him down on the like his throat on the ground by my forearm. So I was only what three, four inches from his face. I pulled the can out, unleashed it, and it's just come straight back on me. I was just dosed in it. Um looked like it was getting a bit compliant, so I've tr tried to get up and get his arm behind his back, and he's tried to jump up, so I've laid in laid into him again. And then by that stage, back up had turned up, which was great. Because what we didn't realise is all of us had called urgent on the radio, but we didn't know each other had called urgent, and then there was just radio silence. So I had four urgent calls with no response. So we had cops from all over the place, like literally everywhere, just coming. That was the best relief hearing those sirens coming, because we were gassed by the end of it, yeah. Like both with the actual gas and energy of it. But that that was the first real tassel, proper punch on where you realise things actually don't always go the cops' way. Yeah. Because you feel invincible as a young cop.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

And you think you know, most people would comply because there's cops, yeah, but obviously my's junked up and don't give a fuck about life.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

He was good to go. He broke broken his miss' arm upstairs, kicked the door in, and he was just a genuine piece of shit. Well, that's what people are saying. I remember going back to the stage, like you were justified in shooting him. I was like, that's the last thing that crossed my mind.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Yeah, I would have plugged in. Maybe they should give cops uh knuckle dusters or something. I really I think that should be legal for cops. Or even those um knuckle dusters.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Those gloves that you get, like the motorbike gloves.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Like Oakley have a good pair of yeah, they do, mate.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

They're there's a pair in the Amarok. I use them for mechanical work though for anyone listening.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

Yeah, you don't want to graze your knuckles.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

I just don't want to graze my knuckles. Yeah, right. So obviously that's your first, you know, rough and tough with it with a a cream junkie. Yeah. And i is there a bit of a a debrief on that? Like w how do you go from there?

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Do they Oh there there wasn't an official debrief. I remember I got home. So we had to go to hospital. Of course, yeah. Get decontaminated, and then I had to start that whole AIDS testing because I got bitten by a fucking junkie. Yeah, shit. How long was that? It was six months. I think it was six months. That's wild, isn't it? I had to get regular testing and then you're clear by the end of it. But the stress of it and being a probationer, you're just like just being a young bloke and someone goes, Oh, it's got to do these tests for six months. You're like, oh, what does this piece of shit have that's making me get tested? Um, but yeah, so I went home after that and my phone rang. It was a private number, picked up and it was uh commissioner, Andrew Scipioni. And he was like, Oh, I heard about the job at Mossman, and I was like, what the why the hell is the commissioner calling me? He's like, Oh, I want to thank you for what you did, blah blah blah. Gonna put you off accommodation, blah, blah, blah. Yada yada. Anyway, that blew my mind. I didn't I don't know, I guess I didn't understand the processes of when commissioners found out about stuff, and I didn't understand how bad it was when that many cops go to hospital kind of thing. Like, I was just naive. A young naive bloke was just like it's punch on, we'll go home. Um so I got pretty chuff with myself. I was like, it's pretty cool that the commissioners putting us up for an award. And then a week later, ended up with a complaint from the cops for excessive force against old mate.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

I did oh because he put it in, did he?

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Yeah, he's his legals put it in, and so that trumped any good work. So got investigated for the rest of my probation period for excessive force on this absolute rap bag. There's joys of policing.

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Yeah, you know, I've had that a a million times, and I'm sure there's a few purple folders out there to fill to the brim.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

Oh, the on my pigeonhole by the end, I think I'd only been like 12 months. Someone had put on my pigeonhole one of those printed things saying insert complaint file here. So they just kept especially been on the north shore. Yeah. A lot of it's got a lot of good people, but there's a lot of entitled pricks out there. They'll complain about everything. Like I got one for malicious damage for knocking on a door too hard. Uh intimidation as well for yelling at someone to get off the road. Yeah. So yeah, the complaints on the north side, they're through the roof because everyone, everyone's dad's a lawyer or cousin or uncle or yeah. But no, it's good. I've got a good little collection now at home. I'm sure you're not the only one. I've kept them all and they're all in a folder that I can just flick through and little history of my complaints.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

Now you spoke about the plain clothes stuff. You move into that plain clothes. What is this? Like a proactive policing type thing?

SPEAKER_01 56:10

Yeah, it's the proactive crime team. So the harborside PCT. Um, I was lucky enough in my pro towards the end, I got to do a rotation up with that squad, and it was really good. I the supervisor in charge of the team, he was a UC supervisor as well, so undercover. So we got to jump in on a whole lot of undercover jobs all around Sydney that we could jump into and do internal security for the UCs doing work and did a lot of work in King's Cross back when it was King's Cross.

SPEAKER_04 56:45

Good times.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

That was amazing. And as a probationer, I was like, this is the best job ever. Like we're cruising around in nightclubs, we're getting paid to get on the cans while we're like it was just a whole nother world. So I was like, this is great, and I loved the proactive side of policing, like it was just I clicked to it really well. I was we used to joke it takes one to know one, like we were able to pick where grubs would be or what how they'll do certain things and hide certain things. So towards the end of my probation period, a spot came up, a full-time spot in the proactive crime team, and so I I'd been working my ass off proactively, and it managed so pretty much as soon as I got my hook, I got hookers in your first stripe from firm constable. I got a spot up in the plain clothes team. So that was awesome. Like I that was the kind of policing I wanted to do, and that I loved, so I just I was amongst it, and I had good mates in the team. We were a small team, there was only five of us all up, including the supervisor. So we're a tight-knit team, and we just got amongst it. It was good fun. Loved it.

SPEAKER_02 58:03

Yeah, and I guess the you know, the positive of being that proactive, you're not stuck to a schedule like the GDs where they're you know responding like you know, we talked, we spoke about outstanding jobs, you're just going from job to job, whereas you're not a slave to the radio, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

Yeah, and we we ran our own as long at that time, as long as our end-of-month stats statistics were good, the bosses kept off our back. So we could just have a lot of fun and then work our ass off for two weeks, get those numbers up. As long as the searches, charges, and stuff were uh at a higher number than general duties, we're pretty much left alone. Yeah. Which was good. We had the unmucked car, we dressed like how we want. That was good fun. I I enjoyed that. So I was up there for about three years. Yeah, it was about three years, and went back to uniform. We got a new supervisor in, he was an asshole, and we had a conflict, and choice was well, there was no choice, you're back on the truck, so went back on the road straight after that.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Yep. Is that proactive stuff 24-7 or is it Monday to Friday?

SPEAKER_01 59:18

No, so we're on a roster, so days shifts, night shifts. We'd try and do as many night shifts as the command would let us because we had main thoroughfares through the command, like the main freeways, the main road from the northern beaches. So we were able to get a lot of drug supply charges of couriers just running drugs at night. So yeah, we enjoyed the night shifts a lot more. But yeah, we worked on a needs basis. So if we had to spike in breaking edges in a certain area, we'd start doing taskings at certain times just on that. Or if we had operations we're running like controlled ops, it would always vary, but yeah, it was kind of like Jet E's, we'd cover as much as we can. Yeah. So yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:04

What do you cruise around in just those?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

We had well, we had pretty free rain to muck around with our car, which was good. So when I started, we had a dark green VE Commodore. We put 5% window tin on it, which it was good, except at night time we couldn't patrol without the windows down because we couldn't see out. And then someone at work had a connection with this company that did emergency light bars for cars. So we were able to get a sleek one put into the front top of the front windscreen, and then we got the front windscreen the top half tinted so you couldn't see the light bar. And then we took all the antennas off the the car, and it was it was stealth ass. It just looked like a Bogan VE Commodore.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:59

That's how it should be, isn't it? Yeah, I don't think they're allowed to. No, they're quite strict these days, aren't they? We weren't back then. Yeah, of course. But that's how it should be. That's the whole point of blending into the populace and yeah. Like it that's yeah, that's playing clo that's the whole reason for playing clothes. Yeah, literally, yeah. Like just find yourself up. Because there's nothing like I do it all the time. You'll you'll be in traffic and you see a car behind you, like you can see the lights and the windscreen. You're like, what are you doing? I'm not I'm I'm not gonna get on my phone now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

I guess like the wouldn't you the command level plain clothes? Because you they're not undercover, they're just plain clothes. Like, there's no special training to be a proactive cop. I guess it's meant to just be a bit more subtle, general duties, but we would take it to the next level and we'd just be unrecognizable. It was yeah, we had a good team, yeah. Yeah, everyone was pretty young. There's nothing like seeing a 50-year-old wearing Nikes and cargo pants.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

And what what you you wearing pretty much what you mean now?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

TNs and Yeah, yeah, I was rocking the TNs. Well, and for the listeners, yes, I am wearing TNs, I don't care what you think. If I cared what you think, I wouldn't be wearing TNs. But no, I'd started wearing them for the plain clothes work in the cops. And then I realised how good they were as shoes. Yeah, yeah, the lads are under something. Like I rate them.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:31

I wear these Vapormax. Yeah, not like Vapo's.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Yeah, yeah, I rate TNs.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

Yeah. Yeah, which you know that's again, that's what the SJ bars are, and and all the islanders, and that's what they're all wearing out in those. It's good and it makes sense. Generally, if you're a criminal, it's what you're doing. They crooked shoes like and red ones. If you've got the red ones on, you're a hundred percent a criminal.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:54

Well, my other pair, they're crooked shoes for sure. They're black with the red line down the front. Yeah. See, I'm not trying to impress anyone. I've got an amazing missus, I got my kid.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

Yeah, no, it's just it goes for comfort there. I've you know, I I do see plain clothes cops out there a lot, and you're just looking going, You're a cop. What are you doing? Or the the plain in the plain clothes cops that who wears a Billabong fucking t-shirt anymore? Plain clothes cops do. They do. I saw one not long ago. No cunt wears a Billabong t-shirt except for my fucking dad.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:27

Literally, I didn't even think of that, but you're right. I'm just like, no one wears that no more. You're a cop. What pissed me off the most is when you see pla young plain clothes cops out there, and if you're listening, this is to you not hiding their belt their gun. Yeah. It's like, look at me, look at me, but don't look at me. If you're gonna be covert, be covert. Yeah. If you want everyone to see your gun, go put your uniform on and be high visibility. Yeah. Like I'm not not down for the show on off your appointments if you're in plain clothes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

I know, I think plain clothes and can you can you wear a IWB in the waistband? No, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

But people did. Yeah, I did. I'd especially when I moved into other sections, like when I went to Redfern Res or State Crime Command. We all most of us had the inside holsters. And that was brilliant. Yeah, of course. And because when I ended up going to State Crime, we got the smaller Glocks because we did more surveillance and covert kind of work. So I had a smaller Glock with an in-pan holster. Never see it. Yeah. It was just in there, just gone. So yeah, that I think at the time they were running training for you could do a ankle holster. Yeah. Which is pretty pointless with a Glock.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:49

It's too big. Yeah. Unless you got the small 42 or 43.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

Yeah, the the real little handbag one. And then they also had, I think they still rocket. The what's it called? Yeah, the cowboy one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

I don't know what the name of it is. What are they called? Shoulder holster. Shoulder holster. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

But you just look like a wanker. Yeah. Like it's that's another look at me, look-at-me, corner.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:17

Yeah, yeah. There's only. Unless you're like from, you know, a cop from the if you're a cop and you're like 65, 100%. And you've got a moustache, yeah. You've got to have the chop emotion. Done. Done. Or you're a tanky for the defense force. That's it. They're the only two people that can wear shoulder holsters.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Other than that, you're a wanker. You're a wanker.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:38

Yeah. But yeah, definitely IWB inside the waist. I wore, I wore that a lot in Iraq. Yeah. A lot of places in Iraq could take, you know, ambassador for meetings. They wouldn't allow us to take in any fire. I was like, yeah. No fucking chance. I'm not a chance. This is the seven ends going straight down there.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:55

It's also like a bit of a comforter. 100%. You got it in there, you're like, I'm good. If this goes to to share. Got something at least. Like I love it. Like I did the surveillance once through was it, Banksdown Centro? Like Gaza Strip. The Gaza Strip, yeah. I was so glad I had the impan holster in there. I was like, I don't want to get caught out here. Yeah. So yeah, that that's the plainclothes work if you can get one of those holsters. That's it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

And no bilbong t-shirts or rip curl. Just wear what you wear on the weekend. Like, don't be nor yeah, be normal.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

Like people try too hard to Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:31

And if you're clean shaven, don't wear a bum bag. Don't do it. Because you don't do it. You stand out. If you're not used to wearing a bum bag, it stands out. Don't, yeah. Unless you've got TNs on. And it's a Jordan bum bag from Footlogger.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:45

And what I loved, I got to work, buy all these TNs and bumbags and stuff, and then put it on tax. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

So good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

I don't think you I don't know if you can do it on tax anymore. Remember the last time I tried to do it, they said, Oh, you get an allowance. I was like, I don't get an allowance. And then somehow Proactive wasn't a specialised role, so it Rules against everything. Yeah. Just dressed like a normal person.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

Now, as you spoke about, you went back to doing general duties. Yeah. And how did you find going back from you know free range, free range policing to now back to outstanding jobs?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

Yeah, it was shit. Yeah. Yeah. I had like I I had a good team. Like I was put back on a pretty decent team straight off the bat. And my first shift back, I hit the ground running as well with a double suicide that hit me for six. Oh shit. Yeah. That was unexpected. I was put on station for my first shift back on station shift. So you were at the counter answering the phone. And we had a new boss, like an inspector, come to the station. He goes, We had a chat. He goes, Oh, you from Proactive? I was like, Yeah. He's like, I'll take, let's go for a drive and I'll show you. He said, You show me around where you'll get stats. I was like, Yeah, sweet. So I jumped in the car. Sunday night on the North Shore, nothing's going. Went to one of the spots we usually go to. I knew it was the car all fogged up. And um I remember clearly saying to the boss, I was like, oh you boss, we're on. Like, looked like they were punching billies in the car. And as we got closer, there was um a hose coming out from the exhaust pipe up into the back window. And I jumped out of the car, bolted, turned the car off, little green Mazda. And um I've looked over my shoulder and there was this lady out for the count in the back of the car. And um so I ran round to the passenger side, opened the door, ripped her out, and started doing CPR on her. Um the boss was between kept coming to the car, then back to his car because he didn't know the area. So back then we had A4, A3 maps of the command. It wasn't like you could look it up on Google. And then I was in such an adrenal rush, he's like, Where are we? I was like, I can't remember. I gotta remember what this park's called, and so he's trying to find where we are. And as I'm yelling back to the boss, because I didn't have a portable on me either, because I was just on station shift, so he's doing all the transmissions. I've looked and noticed there was a second person in the back seat of the car as well.

unknown 1:09:43

I was like, shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

So I remember I yelled out to the boss. I was like, we've got another one. So I jumped up, tried to drag him out, but he was a pretty big fella, so the boss has helped me drag him out. So the boss started working on the bloke, and I was working on the woman. Um the woman came to but wasn't awake, like she was breathing, so happy days. I've gone over to the bloke, so the boss went back to do more transmissions to give comms. I've started working on the bloke, and I was I was just going through the motions just to say I did everything I did. Like in my head, he was like completely gone. And then as I'm going down to give him a breath, he it came to like a horror movie. Like eyes open, mouth open, it made it scared, and for years, like I still sometimes as I'm drifting off to sleep, see that. If I'm super relaxed, old mate, oh I was like, fuck.

unknown 1:10:53

Like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

Yeah, that stuck with me hard. And I was like, I'm back in GDs, like this is not a good omen for my first shift back.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

And then just didn't stop after that.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:06

That's epic though, they both survived.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:08

Well, uh whether if they're dead or not now, who knows? No, so the woman she made a full recovery, and the bloke, he passed away not long after his lungs just gave way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The carbon monoxide. Monoxide, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he just had too much in him. But she had just not enough. It was there were seconds in it. Really. We're talking to the doctors, and they're like, Yeah, there's not a big time frame for that to be fatal. So we're lucky. Did you get any answers or questions out of it?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

Like so it's because obviously you got an interviewer, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:52

Is that is that the process or well, because he ended up dying. I I was confused because it should have been a coroner's matter, but the hospital put it as a natural death.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:05

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

I I don't know how that works. Yeah. Um, but what we found out because the family made contact with us afterwards and we got thank you letters, and it was pretty touching to get letters from the children of these this couple saying thank you for saving our mum's life and whatnot. Um, but long story short, he were they were both very wealthy people that lived, is what I've been told, but it was extremely wealthy life, their whole life revolved around money. And back then they got one of those scam Nigerian emails saying you've lost your super and everything. Yep. But they hadn't. But they panicked so much. Oh shit, they couldn't live without their super. That was enough for them. Wow. And they just went and did a tried to do a double suicide deal.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:01

Jesus Christ. It was extreme, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

Very extreme.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

Like and then yeah, they hadn't lost anything. So goddamn Nigerians. I undercapped.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:13

Yeah, it's yeah. I've yeah, I've become a billionaire a few times now.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:17

Yeah, or the amount of lotto's I've won except for my junk box.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:22

Uh yeah, I made so back to that GD life. And how'd you go in the last you know, year or so at that station? Busy just GD life every day.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

Every day, just GDing it. Just but I was loving it. Nonstop. It was non-stop, but I was young, so it was in your first five years, you're learning something new every day and seeing something new, but like there was some shockers. Jobs where I just was unlucky. Like, listeners will know some cops have a kissed on the tip with having a career where they can get through unscathed. Like, I worked with a bloke who didn't get his first deceased until he was eight years in the cops. Holy shit. And it wasn't he wasn't avoiding them, he just never was on when it happened. And then me, I just caught every everything major that could have gone wrong in that time frame. I was either there or the first car off. Like we had a horrendous one. I talked about this on another potty, so I won't go into too much detail, but domestic, we were the closest car, so we're pulling in, and there was reports of a bloke getting pinned up glass window, glass window of an apartment block. And as we pull in, old mates come through the window and splatter in the car park on the ground in Camaro. And it was one of those ones where the driveway I'm trying to show my hands, we're on a podcast. The driveway goes up and goes straight into the courtyard area, and he was there just completely mangled and still alive. How high was the drop? I think that one was the tenth story. 10th stories. Yeah. Like literally his ankle was at his ear, his hip was in his chest, it was all it was a mess. But old mate was still alive when I ran over to him. And I tried everything to to keep him going, but like in hindsight, there's nothing we could have done. But it was I've that when you're with someone alive and you watch them die, it's a lot harder than just rocking up to a deceased. Like if they're already dead and you rock up and they're there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:53

They're still bad to go to, but sometimes you have the forethought to disconnect. But when you're with someone trying to keep them alive and then they die in front of you, you feel useless type thing. Yeah, and it's just every detail is ingrained in your head. Like, could you overthink it? What if I did this? What if I did that? And so, yeah, that that was pretty fresh back on the truck again. And then not long after that, had a critical incident with another bloke over a balcony. So me and Heights aren't friends. It's had a shit run. That's for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:34

Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's like just talking about suicides. Look how many of these in your 14 years actually outside of the one year at uh band camp. Uh, you know, how many suicides do you reckon you dealt with? Just to highlight the successful suicides or just attempts? Just attempts in general.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:54

Well, you'd be going a couple a day.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:56

No way.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:57

Yeah. And all age groups? All age groups. Like I had the double suicide, they were in their late 80s. Yeah. And down to the point where I had a 12-year-old girl trying to jump off into the freeway. So that's sad. That's sad, yeah. Like another one young kid in year 12. This is when I was in my pro, I nearly shot his dad. Thinking he was a suspect, but he was stabbing himself in the stomach. So yeah, it's just rife and it's it's just a huge societal problem. Yeah, it sounds it. Sounds it. That who knows the answer to it? Because it's yeah, like GDs now, I reckon they're dealing with a lot more of it than when I was doing a couple of shift, like the just seems, yeah, especially social media and all that bullshit now that's online bullying, emphasized, all that stuff, yeah, exactly. Fuck man, like I get on social media and I see people dissing people and trying to fight online fight people. You're like, just live your life, why? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just yeah. So, like in go down to the kids' level where they got less of a filter than adults should have, they must be brutal on each other. It's like everyone wants everyone to feel bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:27

Yeah, I don't know. I don't get it. Definitely times have definitely changed. I I you know I dealt with my first suicide 16. One of my good friends committed suicide. And that was just a shock because everyone was just like, like it just wasn't this is the 90s. Yeah, 90s, late 90s. And just like, I don't know, it just didn't exist. Felt like it didn't exist, but now it just feels like every second kid's talking. Yeah, it's suicide. But I get I guess there's so much more on the news now. You know, every time you see something on the news now, like call fucking lifeline or call. So it's almost like throwing in your face as well now.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:04

It's such a touchy topic because you don't want to say people don't have the feelings they got because everyone's entitled to their own emotions and feelings, but then I feel like people are told to feel too much. That's what I mean. Like the the the yeah, like with my son, he'll he'll fall, he'll ax himself on something, and I'll wait for him to see if he's actually hurt or not. And if he's not, I'm like, You alright, man? He's like, Yes, yes, sweet. He keeps continuing. But then even the other day, I went to we had a doctor's appointment and he he smashed his head, and it was it's pretty funny. Like he ran into this war and he looked at me and laughed. And the doctor was like, Alright, let's unpack that feeling. No, he's good. He's good. He goes, No, no, no, but we need to. That was a big thing that happened. And I was like, nah. Like taking resilience away from people is dangerous to society. Yeah. Like resilience is what keeps us punching through in society. And if people are told not to well, that the thing is they're not being told not to have it, they're being trained not to have it. Yeah, everything's someone else's fault, or someone else can fix it, or I guess it changes for each person individually, but yeah, things are a lot softer.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:32

Oh, no doubt about it. No doubt about it. And I've you know I've seen it with my own kids. You know, they like you said, they'll stub their toe or something, or if you give them the attention, then they ball their eyes out. Yeah. And want all the attention in the world. And if you go, oh, just you'd be right, mate. You're right. I do it all the time, mate. And especially my younger one now, she'll she used to do it a lot because my wife used to pander to her and hug her and pick her up and blah blah blah. Now doing the mum, she'll do something. She did something the other day, hurt herself. And I just looked at her and just walked off.

unknown 1:21:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:04

And she was fine. Then she just continued on playing. But I knew for a fact if I was to go panda to her and just go, Oh, you okay worked up baby, and she would have cried, no doubt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:15

Like I'll give my son the op like if it's something really bad worth cry like I let him cry it out if if something you know when it's legit, yeah, exactly. Like you don't want emotionless humans going around, but you don't want them turning into Pussies.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:32

Yeah. Legit pussy cats, because there's plenty of them these days.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:36

I watched I I gotta tell I watched the funniest thing I'll send it to you after this. This woman was out at a shopping centre pretending you now they think the dog was the dog attacked her. The dog attacked us.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:46

I thought it was AI, but it wasn't. It was real, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

Yeah, well deserved. I saw barking in a shopping center saying you're a dog. The dog attacked. Big doll.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:59

Fucking good, good. But uh anyway, off track now. Yeah, so you're job to job. Just seeing things, doing things, yeah. Again, suicides to car crashes to arresting some junkie for stealing a hundred bucks worth of fucking tens.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:17

Yeah. Boy, they're more than a hundred bucks. 180, 180 bucks. That's all they can stolen. Yeah, but yeah, so it it was starting to catch up on me. I had a critical incident where I was negotiating with a bloke on a roof and it all went to shit. He was off his rocket. I've gone in to to grab him because he was just incoherent. As I've gone in, a probationist tasered him, but the tasers malfunctioned, and it delayed about three seconds from when he pulled the trigger. And old mate, as I went in, he'd swan dived off the roof. But because it was a penthouse apartment, there was like 20, 30 witnesses that it looked like he got tasered off the roof. Yeah. In every point, it looks like he got tasered off the roof. So that that was a shit critical incident to go through. Um the interviews getting error like critical incidents just suck. Draining, it takes it out of ya. Um that started to really wear me down. And then after that, had another job of it was a bloke on a balcony with a knife threatening to kill his family. Had him at gunpoint, then he's dropped the knife, and then we got hands-on and he belted the crap. He was a big fella, like bodybuilder bloke, and he he he mucked us all up pretty good. And after that, one of my best mates was a sergeant out at Marubra at the time, and I used to work with him in the early days, he was like one of my main mentors, Tyrone. And um he's like, How about you come out to Marubra, get away from because at that stage I think I'd had three people off balconies, punch-ons non-stop. He's just like, you need to get out of that environment to sustain yourself. I was like, Yeah, it's and I think as a mate, he was just trying to get me closer to him so he could keep an eye on. He never said that, but I think he he was just looking after me. Went out to Marubra, and made that was a next level busyness that I hadn't experienced before.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:36

That was different different crimes or different scenarios?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:41

Same crime, but at a bigger level. So the house were more house. Um the alcohol-related crime at the pubs, like at Coodie Bay, there's a lot more, everything was just intensified, so it was very busy, but it was a good station. Like I made some amazing friends there. The culture there was really good at the time. It was a more old school, like it felt like you'd walked back in time going into that station. Everyone backed each other, the bosses backed the crews. It was it was fun, but I was just at my wits' end. Mental health had picked up on me. Like, there's lots of stuff we haven't talked about that's on there that's just I thought I was just fatigued, and then all these emotions, and I was starting to get panic attacks on my way to work, and I'd sit in the car opposite the police station and just physically not be able to get out of the car. And I was like, nah, that's I'm just tired. Like, I've I've only been in five years, like I can't have seen that much stuff, it's bad. Um and then I finally came to a head where I um had a breakdown in between night shifts when I was at home. And I went into it was something really minute that set it off. It was someone poured off milk down the sink, and something about that triggered something in my brain, and I had a blackout rage attack, and all I remember is crying on the ground of the kitchen and that was that was scary. I've never soberly blacked out before and like things were smashed all around the place. Um so word got out about that to colleagues, and I got put off sick leave to to get better, and that that was the hardest thing being five years in being told you got PTSD, and I didn't accept it. I was like, I I don't, it's just an excuse, I gotta get back to work. Um it wasn't until like a couple of sergeants I worked with came and visited me at home one day, and we're running through why I was off work, and one of them, he's like, You've seen more in your five years than I have in 25 years. He's like, You were a shit magnet. And I just thought it was normal, but I was just unlucky. Or too keen to be the first person at everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:35

Yeah, like I just love working, working, like I just love being a police officer, yeah. Like it was Yeah, that's the job, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:44

Yeah, I couldn't believe I was getting paid to do this shit. Yeah, it was it was I didn't realise how damaging it could be. It's just cup overflowing, isn't it? It is, it just building and building, and then somehow off milk was like the final straw for that. So I spent about six months off work and I had to go to group therapy, one-on-one therapy. The group therapy was good and bad. Um it was a first responder group, and like those those are hit and miss because sometimes you support each other, or like some cops, it's a dick measure and competition on who's seen the worst thing compared to this person, or I should be here and you shouldn't, or if we start talking in the group environment, something you'd hadn't even thought of. Someone would talk about their experience and it would trigger another. So that was good and bad. I got some some good coping mechanisms out of it, but all I wanted to do was be back at work. Like I was bored, like I wasn't used to being bored, I'm not good at being bored.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:59

So just quickly, this six months off, this is all a police induced uh You know, they're paying for it. This is all part of first responding and that was under work work covered.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:08

Under work cover, yep. Um which I never had an issue with the insurance company or work cover because everything was documented pretty thoroughly. Like I had a good detective mentor when I was in my probation period. Um Shibble. She didn't she was really knowledgeable, she'd been the cop forever. She's like, just document everything you ever go do. I remember thinking she was nuts when she told me. I was like, why you why she's like, just have a book, just make sure you keep tabs of everything. And so when I did get crooked, I had proof of everything that had happened over the years. Even though it was five years, it was a lot. So yeah, straight up, it was just work cover dealing with insurance companies, and and it wasn't too bad because I from the start I just wanted to get back to work, so I didn't have any issues with that side of things. Um got cleared by the doctor, but he said um cleared to have my firearm but not do general duties. And I was like, I don't even know what that means. Like I'm a GD's cop. Um but through some connections, I was able to get a spot at the at State Crime Command at the Gang Squad. And when I got there, it was right at that time, it had converted over from gang squad to criminal group squad. Um, it merged a whole lot of units, like Asian crime, Middle Eastern crime, all that kind of stuff into the one big umbrella of criminal group squad. And I jumped in onto a strike force called Strike Force Kindra, which was one of the biggest jobs I think I'd it was the biggest job I ever worked on in my career. Um it was huge, it was cross-state operation with huge pseudo-ephagent importation, um Asian crimes, outlawed motorcycle gang, like everything you could think of was sprinkled into this one operation. It was it was bigger than Ben Hur. And I got to learn some absolutely amazing investigative skills from working in the team. So that that was amazing. And then the more I was there, the longer I the more I was like, this is what I always thought the cops would be. Like would be installing tracking devices, be helping the tech guys put in their cameras and their microphones. Like it was just the cool movie shit. It was the movie shit, yeah, and I was like, this is it, I love it. And then the longer I was there, the different strike forces I would get involved in, and it was just the next level of policing that you'd heard about, but you hadn't experienced, and it was in-depth investigation, so it was it's not like GDs where you lock them up, quickly put a fact sheet together and kick them off. This was deep digging, lots of surveillance. It was it was slow, but when shit hit the fan, hit hit the fan big. Like if we had a like a resolution day, it would wrap up the operation. It was crazy. There was doors getting kicked in, search warrants left, right, and center, and that was great. I was there for about a year, and then um it came down to having a full-time spot at the unit, and someone else got picked, which fair play. They had what the super wanted at the time, but I was gutted because that was yeah, that would that was the cool shit. That was the cool shit. That's what I'd aimed. That was like the end goal kind of position in your career, and I got there pretty quick. And it would just so yeah, wrapped up there. I think it was Christmas Eve, and like it was sad to go, but the team put on shindig to go, and I got presented Thai and farewell gift and all that kind of stuff. So it was good to be appreciated by the team, which you don't get in General Duties. Like General Duties are the most underappreciated squad, of course, because they're just expected to be there, yeah. As long as there's blue there, there's no face to it. They're the most important squad, too. They're the first at everything, they cop the most amount of shit. But yeah, so it was one of those other times where it's like, yeah, you're back on the truck. So Christmas Eve, I finished at State Crime, and New Year's Eve was my first shift back in uniform. So this is first time back as uh GD officer? Yeah, so first time back in uniform for nearly two years. Yep. And New Year's Eve was pretty uneventful for me. I was just the supervisor assist, so I just cruised around with the sergeant. And then had a couple of days off, and then first day shift back, I went in early. No, so my first shift on team was a night shift again. And I went in early because I had paperwork to wrap up from state crime, and over the radio it came over as an active shooter at Westfield at Chatswood, and back then that was pretty unheard of. It wasn't as well trained for as it is now and knowledgeable, and I was like, that doesn't happen, so I'm just sitting there doing my work. Anyway, a few more jobs come in from different informants that three Middle Eastern men had been seen with handguns running through Westfield, and then security at Westfield came called over, and they've got footage of the blokes running around with guns, so like, geez, it's game on, like, no duff. So Westfield's just around the corner, so and I didn't know anyone that was on that team, so I just ran across the road, ran to the shops, and I was lucky enough to team up with the car crews that turned up. We've run in and we're getting updates. We'll manage to corner these absolute little dickheads, but they had it painted toy guns to make them look like real guns, and we're running around Westfield pretending they were real small arms. I don't know how nobody got shot. Like you look even look at the CC TV, and I came around one end, and my mate Scotty McVicar came around the other side, and on the footage, one of the kids is so scared he turns around and nearly points it directly at I just would have been fucked.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:17

Yeah, I remember seeing on uh on the news. Yeah, yeah, it was all over the place because it was just unbelievable. What did they say after they got arrested? Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:28

They just they'll they'll from Just thought it was normal. They were out Westy Boys, they'd dealt with cops a heap of times, closed lip, and they're all kids, so they got a huge caution. Like that police response, that chaos. Yeah, plus there was families around like it was the afternoon trauma of all these people seeing cops sc screaming in the house. We were screaming, like it was yeah, there's no friendly gets on the ground kind of thing there. That's what again. I was like, oh, back to GDs. Shit's happening again. That was fun, like it was a it was fun because it was a good result in the end. Yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah, you get the adrenaline rush, you get the guns out.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:15

That's it, mate. That's fucking the novelty, you know. The last few months we've had uh Bondi, and you know that's that's changed the game on everything. See how bad it can be. Yeah, exactly right, mate. Exactly right. Now, back to your first week, so you straight chip magnet straight back into it. Uh back into the regular jobs, and then uh not only you do a bit of policing, you do a bit of uh a bit of firefighting, some would say.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:47

I'd tell you what, I'd I should have been a firery. Yeah, that's the best gig. Yeah. Any young players out there if you're tossing up between the two.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:56

Yeah, the recruiting out too. I'm actually in New South Wales, yeah. Definitely apply. Go for fires. Tick that you wear a dress on the weekend, you'll get the job.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:05

Diversity. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it was a night shift. Done a quiet, it was a winter night shift. Remember it? Because I was still wearing my leather jacket back then. And a job comes over, nursing home on fire. Like, ooh, that's not good. Anyway, I grabbed my partner, I was like, we need to get out to this nursing home at Linfield. We flew up there, and the jobs were coming over thick and thin for it. It was getting bigger and bigger. And we rock up, no fire is on scene. We were the first car on scene. I was like, shit. Bolted up this long driveway, and you could see which building it was coming out of because it was just bellowing black smoke out the entry, and I've got no fire training or fire experience, so I've tried to run in, and it was the thickest smoke you could think, like it just hurt and was hot. I've backed out, and two other officers had just rocked up as well, um, Chris and Amelia, and credit to them. All three of us tried to go in another two times together, which good on them, like they could have easily done what my partner did and stayed further down. It's probably a smart idea. I believe should have stayed with my partner, but um so we couldn't get in the front, so we've run around the back and we couldn't see two inches in front of us, it was so thick. And I've smashed a window that someone was screaming out of. So I've smashed that in with my batten. I remember another cop had turned up, so they dealt with that. I've run round the other side and the flames were just pissing out. Um one of the offsiders grabbed a ladder from over the fence, started grabbing an old bloke out top level, so we managed to get him down. Um I started working on the fire with this garden hose. It was just the body worn. I remember watching it, it was hilarious. Watching this cop trying to put out a building fire with a hose, and then the fires had rocked up, and they didn't know I was on the other side, and they've blown their jet through the window, and I got absolutely shrapneled with glass, like it just shattered out all over me. Um, we've run back around to see if there's anyone else that needs help, and Amelia, my offsider, could hear someone upstairs screaming for help, and it was a 93-year-old bloke who was blind and stuck in his bathroom, and I was he was close to gone. So we managed to get the fireys up there to get him out. I then got another bloke out of another window through the with a ladder, and I'd I hate heights after all the the the height jobs before, but somehow got up there, and once I was at the top of the ladder, I was sort of shot myself, I'll be honest. Like, I hate fire and water and heights, yeah. And there was two of them in one, so that that was not fun. Uh so we got them out, fire is then got the fire out, cleared the building, were able to count how many people would saved. And like the team did an amazing job for that. Like, everyone had a part. There were people doing stuff I didn't even know were there on the day. There's also people there that claimed they did stuff on the day that did jack shit on the day, but it is what it is. Um it wasn't long after the fire actually got out. Amelia turned to me, she's like, I'm feeling pretty crook. I'm like, Yeah, I don't feel too well either. I was like, let's let's walk out the front. And as we got out the front, Amelia's just collapsed, passed out, and then it's hit me and Chris as well. Like, I the smoke inhalation sickness is something it's really I'd never had it before, and I've never had it after, but it's like this shock and feeling like it was we all got struck down with it almost at the exact same time. So it showed we'd got there at the same time to the job, and we're lucky because there was ambulances lined up ready for all the residents, and we just got bottled into an ambulance, gassed up, flushed out, spent the night in hospital for that. And that one that went bigger than Ben Her on the media, which was pretty embarrassing because it was I don't know, it was a media hype up. I think the cops just needed some good publicity, yeah. Of course, it was it wasn't as big as the media says it was, it never is, but it was good money. We got called in for a cancelled rest to be interviewed, so I only did it because cancelled rest is good money. Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, there's gonna be a news crew. Can you come in? I was like, nah, like, oh, it's cancelled rest. I was like, I'll see you in 20 minutes, and all of us turned up, which was good. So we got interviewed there on channel 10, channel 9, channel 7, and then a couple days later, we had another call saying that we're gonna get interviewed on 2GB with Ben Fordham, and it kind of turned into a media circus, like we kind of just felt like pawns for recruitment kind of thing, and it it didn't sit well because a couple of months before our team had had a similar job where the guys did the exact same thing, and there was no recognition, there was no nothing, it was just get on with the job, so it felt bad having that much attention, and then it was at local papers, and then people started sending stuff to the I don't know, it got ridiculous. It was nice to be the acknowledgement that we did something, but there's a point where it goes too far, yeah, it's embarrassing, it turns political, yeah, and we could see at first it wasn't, but then when it started getting shared for days on end by different media outlets, like it went for days, and we're like, nah, it's a political level. There's shit happening in the world a lot bigger than a Linfield Nurse and Home Fire. But yeah, so that one went pretty nuts. So yeah, that was my little firefighter the whole time. Yeah, I don't know where I ended up after that. The thing's kind of all blurred.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:03

What station are you at at this stage?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:05

So there I went to Chatswood station after state crime. Yep. So North Sydney and Chatswood ended up merging together as one. So that's why I picked to go back there because I knew the area. I knew most of the people there. So it seemed like a logical place to go. Yeah. But shit just kept happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:28

And yeah, how long are you in the police now? This six, seven years? Probably about seven years at that stage.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:34

And you're uh senior constable, yeah, yeah, senior Connie. So by that stage, I just started doing like relieving acting sergeant role. Um at that stage it was very here and there, not all the time. So it was good. I got to be on the road and do supervising stuff on the road at the same time. Um, then COVID hit. We got the spicy flu then came in, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:05

Yeah, so that comes what 2021, 21.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:09

Yeah, so in between that, it was just GD's life. Yep. Just like JDs are doing now, just job to job, working their their ringer off as best they can, dodging politics, copping politics, brawls, domestics, suicides, just the regular GD life.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:29

The JD life, like it's it's wild that you would you know, we call this well, you know, for you guys, you could you call it a regular regular shift life. It's just the regular shift.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:40

I think in that time I had I did three separate CPRs on people. So two were suicides and one was a heart attack. So that that hit pretty hard, those ones. But yeah, it kind of just blends into that's GDs.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:01

You know, I mean, like you get a call, you get a job, you're like, oh fuck, not again.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:05

The last one that I cannot be like on. I'll I was sitting there in the car, I was by myself as an alpha unit, and I've just gone again. Another one. Yeah. And I was literally in the street where it happened, so I was like, I can't avoid this one.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:19

Yeah. What's a what's a what's a just a side quest here? Like the wildest job that's come over. I don't know. Wildest. Naked dude run down the street that's ice junky or which I don't know. Well, it's been a fair dude running around. I don't know. Just something weird. Weird and just like, what? Never heard that before. That's a boat jacking.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:42

Instead of a carjacking. A boat jacking. This bloke pulled up to this boat one night on a tinny and robbed the bloke who was driving the boat. It was like a Yeah. Yeah. And it was good because we didn't have to deal with it because it's water. Oh, we went down there and I was like, boat jacking. Never heard of a boat jacking. That was weird, but it all blends into one. Like people, once you think you're surprised and you've seen the weirdest thing, something else pops up, some other rando will come along and just trump trumpet with something weird, like we had a woman in custody once that pulled a discman, like CD discman out of herself while she was in the dock. She just for some reason stored it up in there. That's a big that's a big like it's the old CD discman. Like that's something you just go, what the f that's talent.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:40

What would you think of that?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:41

Like it just doesn't even cross your logical mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:44

Yeah, yeah, well exactly right. What would you like?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:47

I'm sure it doesn't work anymore. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know how that whole thing works. And watched the bloke throw a Zimmer frame over the front counter at the front counter staff. That was he threw a carton of eggs and then ran out of eggs, pelting the cop, but he picked up his zimmer frame and chucked it over. He was he actually he ended up getting tasered by TOU. Even though he had a Zimmer frame. Shout out to TOU, it was hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:17

Yeah. Now as he spoke out, 2021, this is where the spicy flu come in. Yeah. Some Chinese bloke ate a bat ate a bat and uh destroyed the world. And yeah, we know that the police. I know the police took things too way too fucking far. I know there's uh there's a little line when you get told what to do and how you gotta do it, but Jesus Christ, there's there's there's some cops that just go way too far.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:47

I agree with that, and there's always one that it's like I was saying for some people, cops just the letter of the law is the letter of the law. Yeah discretion has to come in to be if you want to be respected in society, you've got to treat people fairly. And there's sometimes that things can be sidelined. Sometimes you can't, but that's the main thing for being a cop. It's just be a decent person to people. Yeah. There's no need to be an asshole to someone you've never met.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:18

And if you know it's comical, like if you can sit down at a pub and you can take your mask off, but if you stand up, better put it back on.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:27

But the rules were You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:50:28

Like you just gotta think and go, fuck, that's this is this is stupid. I'm not gonna I'll make it look like I'm enforcing it, but I'm not. I don't fucking care.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:38

Yeah, I only gave out two COVID tickets, and that's because they're absolute arseholes. Yeah, yeah. Like they failed the attitude tests up and severely out. It could have been hundreds, but two people. But COVID was I like COVID. I enjoyed it. Yeah, so did I. I thought it was I wasn't expected to be anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:59

Lockdown was great, yeah, it was forced rest for me, and you Know I'm like I'm I'm busy. I'm busy every day, like non-stop. There's something new. But here they're overseas. I was lucky to stay at home for a month and just kick back and Call of Duty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:17

The wife of kids. We'd go to work and we'd just do our usual patrols. Less people out. No one out. And if they were out, they were crooks. So you got to lock them up anyway. Yeah. And then I'd go home and not be expected to be anywhere. And then in between that, I was doing some volunteer work with the Salvation Army in the city doing homeless feeding. So we'd feed the homeless guys and girls. Because everything was shut. There was no one out. They were just out. A lot of people forgot about the homeless community. They were just stranded. Yeah. Yeah. So I was going into I got a permit. You'd get have to get a permit to say you could travel outside your 4K bubble. Yep. So I had that as well. So on my days off, I was going into the city to do stuff with that. So yeah, COVID didn't. It wasn't shit. No. Plus, there was extra shifts going because of all those hotel. Yes, for you guys, yeah. There were copper's making absolute bank doing overtime and user pays. There was shifts for days for everyone. So then we got to do those border closure deployments, which I loved. Heading out bush. Where I went, we were blocking one bridge, which never had any cars go over it anyway, over the Murray River. So it was just like a boys' camping trip.

unknown 1:52:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:42

We had a bonfire going every night. We'd just sit around eating food and playing card games. It was yeah, I enjoyed it. I'm sure there's some people that had terrible fire. I'm not underestimating how much.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:54

No, no, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:55

Like I had friends that are destroyed a lot of businesses and yeah, they struggled big time during COVID because their livelihood got taken away from them. But from a cop perspective, it was a pretty decent time to be policing. I enjoyed it. And then we had a short gap where the numbers went right down in um cases, and they let people start to go to the pub again. And I think it was the first weekend of that. No, it was the first weekday of that. I had this probationer with me. I was his FGI. Mate, this bloke should never have got through the handwritten application test. Just the worst of the worst. We're in the pub talking to the security guard, the head of security, and the doorman was out the front, and we see this group of blokes come up. And obviously, fresh out of COVID, they got to see the boys again, they're on the cans. Security at the front said, no, you can't go in. And the biggest bloke of the groups just punched the secchi square in the head. Just like straight up bushka. We're standing there looking through the glass windows. I was like, oh shit. So I've run out and it was pretty funny. I had people messaging me from all around the state that the footage got out somehow. I've run in with this flying coat hanger because the bloke, like I'm no big fella at all. I had the jump to try and get this bloke in a headlock, and it's just like this flying headlock, get him down, and he gets up, so I flick him over my shoulder, jump on top, having a bit of a punch on. He's going to town, so I'm giving him a few elbows in the head. My offsider was too scared to jump in, and so I had all his mates around us. It was like a schoolyard fight. We're going for it in the middle, the mates are around, and there's this useless constable standing outside the circle watching everything go down, and finally was able to call for back up, and my realmates turned up. We wrapped him up pretty quick. Anyway, I ended up getting a scolding for it because on my body worn camera I screamed out his name and then said, Help me, you cunt. And I got a scolding for talking down to a junior officer that did nothing, that did nothing and admitted that he was scared, and he was just protect at that time. We had a real spate of just questionable applicants coming in, and he was just one of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:36

Yeah, no, I made I've seen them. There was a whole I've seen them when I'm when I've worked at pubs over the last you know 15, 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:44

There's always been special cases, but they got to this point. Like it used to be like you would pick there's one bad one out of a group of 10 yeah. Now it's like we get one not now. Like I know in the last 18 months, a bit more, the quality's definitely gone up. I don't know what's happening at recruiting, but the quality of guys and girls coming through has stepped up big time. And I think the more I get to know some of the young coppers through the Instagram page, I think things are turning around in that retrospect. Like they're keen. Like the young cops are keen.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:20

People listening to podcasts are seeing Instagram accounts now showing the real policing and people like us telling them it's good to see. Like I've we yeah, don't want shit cops. No, and they don't want to be known as shit cops.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:33

And it's good, they're keen.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:34

It's just and if you're out there and you think you're a shit cop, you probably are. You probably are. So fucking just question question what you're doing. Yeah, but by all means, go work behind the counter somewhere. Happy days. Don't be out in the street and don't dog your mates.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:49

There's a job for everyone in the copy.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:51

Exactly right. There is hand camp. Oh yeah, we'll talk about that soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:55

Let's get there. That's the most exciting one I had. Um, but yeah, there's a job for everyone, and if you know you're not suited to a role you're in, change your role or change a job.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:07

Like people's lives are at stake. That's the biggest thing, isn't it? It's it's not a fuck around job.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:13

Like, because I'm I'm a small fella compared to most. If that guy had got one decent crack on me, out cold. I would have been out cold. There was a that means a free gun, who knows what his level of psycho was. Just but then I've I've worked with absolutely tiny petite female constables that have thrown down harder than some of the biggest guys on the team. Yeah, it's incredible that like a lot of people focus on size, but it's all in the heart. Like I I had a real shit lockup once as a drink driver gone to shit. I've got a face that everyone wants to punch. I swear to God. I got hit so many times. I said, mate, you're under arrest. Boom, straight in the face. We're going on like we're going hit for hit. It was pretty good. I got him on a good tussle, and then we're trying to wrap him up. And this girl I was working with, small as anything, she knew that if she could just get a limb, she would help. And she was in there straight away, wrapped the legs up, done, perfect. We're able to lock him up.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:29

Simple as that.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:30

But then you got big fella like this bloke that left me out to drive, is apparently some black belt and kung fu.

unknown 1:58:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:38

He can fight ghosts, but not freaking real people.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:40

Fucking PlayStation 1, Mortal Kombat.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:44

And like everyone I've worked with will know that story, and he's saying his name right now. Yeah. So shout out. Haven't forgotten about him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:54

The dog. Again, mate, like you said, there's there's a job for everyone. You don't have to be a Jedi's cup. You don't have to be a heavy hitter or a hard hitter. Go work, I don't know, fucking the accounting IT dog. Yeah. Not the military. You don't have to be an infantry guy. You don't have to be a commander or special forces. You can just, I don't know, be a fucking big player on a clerk or something. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:59:17

Or just tap out your job at the future.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:19

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because again, you're putting people's lives at risk, not only the police officers next to you, but still doing that there.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:28

Yeah. And uh yeah, right. So from there, this is where you get a bit of surgery though. Because obviously, this, you know, again, this is frontline policing can be fucking hard and rigorous on the body, no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:45

It really can be, and it was for me. So I'd for a while I'd had shoulder pain, but I thought I'd just pull the muscle in my shoulder. Boys being boys, you're like, it'll get better. I'll just keep doing my thing. Um, I had a few big pranks in the in the work car over the years. I think there was three or four big ones, and then the usual punch-ons and wrestles and whatnot. Um after that big one at the pub, I lost feeling in my in my thumb and my index finger. And I was like, that's that's not great. Um, so I went to the GP, got the scans. He was like, you need to go see a neurosurgeon. I was like, what the f So went to neurosurgeon, and he looked at the scans and booked me in for emergency spine surgery the next week. And at this stage we'd gone back into COVID. Not we didn't go back into a full lockdown, but it was like really strict. And he's like, You're not working. Are you? You're off work. And I was like, No, I've got night shift tomorrow. He's like, mate, don't move. He's like, You ruptured your disc and it's crushed your spinal cord. I was like, what do you mean? So what had happened over the years, it just bulge, bulge, bulge, and that's when it finally went. And it when it went, I it felt like I'd been stabbed in the neck. Like I thought I'd been stabbed. It was just this instant bomb. So went in for surgery for that, which has left me like all the nerves got crushed and index finger and thumb still non-existent. Um ended up being in hospital for it was about five days. And because it was COVID, I you weren't allowed visitors or anything, so you just relied on doctors and nurses and all that kind of stuff. And when I was in there, every four hours I'd come in with two big tablets and they'll give them it to me, and I was like, sweet, sweet. Got discharged. They gave me all these packets of endone, and so I figured they were what they were giving me for the every four hours. So I started dumping two endones every four hours. Turns out I was only getting endone at night time, the rest was just panodol. So I was on four times, four to five times the dosage of endone that I was meant to be on. Totally unintentionally. I just don't read instructions or like most blokes. I was like, I just got addicted. Yeah, I got absolutely hooked on the endone. I like and to top it off, I got out of hospital and my son was born the next uh two days after I got discharged. So I was high as a child on endone and post-surgery pain, and then baby comes along, then take a couple more just to ease the pain, so I had to go up to the hospital, and I was taking them like like jelly beans, and um I didn't know anything about endone at the time. I just thought it was a painkiller, and the doctor called me after a couple of weeks of it, and he's like, Oh, I want you off the endone by Wednesday. I was like, no problem. Easy, yeah. It turns out not easy, it was full on junky withdrawals. I didn't know what was going on, it was like the movies, like the convulsions, the vomiting, the opiate fucking addiction just dry off it, and I I honestly thought I was dying because I still didn't put two and two together, it was the endone. And we had a family member in the family, we had a family member at the time who was a doctor, and he got called up and he goes, When did Ben stop taking his endone? I was like, oh 24 hours ago. He's like, get him endo now. And I took one tablet and I was like, Oh shit, I'm hooked on opioids. And that was that was a shit feeling being a cop. And um I went to the doctor the next day and he's like, Yeah, we're gonna put you on an opioid treatment program. And like the the feeling of being told that was just next level. So that was a very painful time to wean off the drugs, still try and keep it a secret, because you don't want anyone knowing that you're a junkie, knowing you're a junkie on opioid unintentional, so you're either a junkie or you're an idiot. I was one of them, and I was both of them at the same time, yeah. Because no one believed I'd unintentionally was taking that many, but I'd I'm just an idiot. So it took me a long time to get cleared to go back to work because of the the endone, and that took a massive toll on my ego and pride, really, because like you pride yourself in being a cop, you're clean, you know, you don't get addicted to stuff. Yes, it was just it was the weirdest thing to come out of nowhere, and then during that time, I'm trying to navigate being a new father and failing it that miserably, like it just wasn't natural to me, and I didn't take to it like most people do. So I got to the point where I was like, I need to get off this, I need to get back to work. Like, I need that chaos to feel normal again. Being at home was just recovery, it was boring, there was no adrenaline. It's slow, it was slow, I wasn't enjoying my life as a father, a new father, like there was the PTSD and then the endone stuff. It really fucked with my head to try and be a present human in a newborn's life was really hard for me at the time. So I just did everything I could to it probably helped me as well to get off all the pain meds and whatnot. I had a motivation to really get in there and get back to work, get my gat stuck, broken necks again. Yeah. So that was I think that took about six months, all up, with the neck recovery and then also the the opioids on top. About yeah, I'd say about six months, got back into it, and it was the same shit. As soon as I got back, just the grind non-stop. I was doing a lot of relieving sergeant at that stage, it was mainly that, which I love doing that. That was like a bird to water for that. Because I always wanted to finish my career as a sergeant, so that was my career goal by the end of it. So I was enjoying doing that kind of stuff, but everything had taken its toll at that stage. I was I was burnt out even though I'd just come back, the old stuff had never gone away. And for most Jedi's cops, it's like that that cup, they don't have time to empty the cup because every day it's just something new, and if it's not something traumatic, it's some internal bullshit that's going on with a shit boss or shit management, things just kept going and building, building, building. So I was like, I need to find another another place to get to that's less stressful.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:51

So one time at band camp.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:52

So this one time at bandcamp, I've I've put in a um I've put a flute up my bum. So for the listeners, I ended up going to the New South Wales police band as a second. Maddie loves that I went to band camp in the police force. Yeah, dog. But no, so I the police band comprises of there's about 32 civilian musicians in it and two police sergeants that run it. So it's run out of the public affairs division, so yeah, that's run out of headquarters, but they were the police band's out at Stanmore, and they do all the community engagements, they do awards days, funerals, school visits, nursing home visits, academy stuff, all the graduations. Yep. Um I heard that one of the sergeants had gone off sick on long-term sick leave, sick leave, and I knew a few people in the band through social connections. Now tell me about it. I was like, That sounds like a pretty good gig. So I put in and the bosses thought it was a joke to start with. Yeah, like they literally came down and they're like, Is this real? Is he right?

SPEAKER_02 2:09:09

This is right, is this the end ain't talking?

SPEAKER_01 2:09:12

Like, this guy's still off his rocket. I was like, no, no, it's legit. I want to get out there. So I went out there and mate, I was absolutely blessed. The other sergeant there, who's a full-time sergeant, um, Dan, he'd just got there because he got a new position there, and me and him were on the exact same page with everything. We'd worked at pretty much the same units throughout our career, but at different times. So we we understood each other, and I was able to like I was just up front with him with about my mental health. I was like, mate, I'm struggling, that's why I'm here. And I tell you what, he him and the members of that band helped me big time as a as was kind of just a a reset period. Um, a lot of people give the band shit, which is understandable, it's an easy target for a joke. Like it's of course yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm the first to admit that. Yeah. Um, but the I didn't understand or appreciate the role they had in the police force that no one, even the members of the band don't see it. Um they're the public relations, they're top of top of the pile, if you ask me. You got TikTok cops that are embarrassment, you got Facebook posts where they're doing statuses that are just embarrassing. Yeah, they're trying to be relevant, but it's like it's just cringy. Like it's there's just so much bad publicity that made by the police that's meant to be good, that's just makes us look like a joke. Where the police band would be going to all public engagement, like communities, events, they'd go out rural, there'd be events where there's indigenous communities out there, they're professional, they play world-class music that it's not embarrassing to be around, like they're professional musicians, and I was able to relate to the community more when I was at the police band than I could being in general duties because we were coming at people not to arrest them, not to tell them that someone in their family's died. We were there for enjoyment, and I was able to positively reflect the police force to people better than I ever could. Like they talk about community policing and trying to get Judy's cops to be everyone's best friend, and you can't have it both ways. You're a you're everyone's friend, or you you're the cop because you can't be both at the same time. But when I was at the band, it was people wanted to talk to the cops, it was incredible. And like not only because I could I enjoy world-class music every day, still call myself a cop, but I wasn't dealing with the day in, day out. It's good luck reset, it was a great reset, yeah. And like, we'll do it. Like, I one of my favourite challenge coins I got is from the governor because I helped organise when um the queen died, the police band was the band in charge of playing at the announcement of the new king. So I got a challenge coin from the governor out of that, which sits pride of joy and got to meet all sorts of celebrities and officials and politicians, and had a fair bit to do, like a fair bit of contact with Mal Lanyon, the new commissioner. He was a deputy at the time, and he was at a lot of the engagements we went to. So Had a lot to do with him, so I got a lot of time for him. Big mouth. Um but just the people there. They like I still talk to a lot of them. Like I made good friends. And they're all civvies too, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 2:13:16

They're just two full-time cops. The rest are just all the band members are civvies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:20

Yeah. And um, but they wear police uniforms, so they need actual police with them.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:25

So if someone out in the park thinks they're police to go on, we were there to stick playing the triangle.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:32

Yeah, I'm just like I've had I got one of my dad's good mates, Mick, he was in the police band years ago. And he was ex-TIG back in the day. He was a he was a cop cop. He went to the band as a bit of a stress release in the 80s and ended up getting his bravery medal whilst in the band. He jumped on top of Prince Charles. That's true. Yeah. Down in the opera house. We spoke about this last time.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:01

That was on the last one. You need to connect me with this this bloke. I'm trying to get it working on it.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:05

I had a chat with him last week about it. We'll talk off air that one. But yeah, everyone gives everyone in the band shit, but he jumped on a guy with a gun. He put his tuber down and ran across ran across the stage. Like you couldn't you couldn't script it. Yeah. So things do happen. But I was getting the itch because I love being a cop. It was great being there, but I was getting the itch to get back into it. Back into policing, yeah. Yeah, which I probably shouldn't have been so keen to get back in, but that's life. You learn, you learn from your mistakes. So I was there for six, I think it was six or seven months. Then got called, went back to JD and went straight back into relieving sergeant again. Uh and like things just went downhill pretty quick.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:01

At that stage.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:03

So if you this is where you kind of see the end of the police, you're like, fuck. Is it is that creeping into your mind?

SPEAKER_01 2:15:14

I never had a thought that I was gonna leave the cops but I knew I couldn't keep doing it. Um we had a few heavy jobs that I was a supervisor at that being a supervisor, you're pretty much doing welfare on your troops. Not from an official capacity, but if you actually give a shit, you're a supervisor, you check on your crew. And we had a shock and suicide um going off the 20th balcony. Oh fuck. It was one of the big ones and splat. Yeah, that was splat splat. And I I went all out for welfare for the guys for that one because the crew that was on that night, I don't think there was anyone over the age of 27. Like they're all kids, probationers, and then FTOs were even young. So I put together a debrief session for everyone and called in the police chaplain there, I had a psych come in, and then we just did a proper because there's no debriefing in the cops. There was there's no I'd never had one before, and I witnessed it years ago. The ambo the Ambo's doing, and we'd had a shit job where I was doing CPR on this bloke. We got him back to the hospital, and uh Ambo goes, Oh, do you want to sit in on our debrief? I was like, What's a debrief? Like, what do you mean? And I sat down, I saw how they did it, and I was like, that's fucking incredible. And so I pulled that one out because I was thinking in that by that stage of my career, I'm like, something's got to change. Like, we're just gonna have more people as broken as me. Like, I don't I don't know what I can do, but if I can help one person in my team, I'll be happy. Um then not long after that, we had a critical incident where it was police involved shooting. That that was a big emotional, like a lot of the guys probably didn't see what I did, but like I went out of my way to make sure the guys were alright for that one because that's pretty brutal watching well, especially for the shooter at the stage. He landed two two center mass, put the bloke down, and the got the shooter bloke, like the cop was the most loveliest, softly spoken bloke on the team. You wouldn't have expected him to be capable of what he did, and so I went out of my way to tell him that he would he's a bloody legend, like his response time, his drills was amazing, and then we had new probationers that were there, and I put everything at that stage aside to be a decent supervisor. Um my relationship had broken down with my son's mother, so I was out of home for that one. Still trying to navigate how to be a good dad. Um, it was easier to focus on the cops than my real life, and then that started taking a toll like mentally, emotionally, lots of old stuff started really catching up to me, and um it got to a stage that I was making s silly decisions, being absolutely reckless, not doing things that the supervisor should be doing, like done things that I was kind of hoping would kill me, so I didn't have to do it myself. Um and then that didn't work, so I got to the stage one night where I drove down to a spot that I used to sit at at the beach down at Bow Morrow. And I'd I'd planned to take my life that night. I was in a really shocking way that with your service pistol, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:35

I'd which isn't it's not uncommon, is it? It's not, mate. No, it's happened, it's happened a fair few times. It and that that is stations too.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:46

I've you know there's been one that's been in stations, it's been in cars, it's been they've gone in and got it and gone somewhere else, and that's why I decided to do what I'm doing on Instagram and do the podcast is because I realised that we don't talk about it, and so many of cops all around the country and the world think that the struggle that they have is their own and that no one else will understand what they're going through, and it's a battle that cops don't need to hold in. Because we we never talk about it, really, like cops are killing themselves left, right, and centre, and the media aren't allowed to talk about it. We're not really spoken to about police, or it's too morbid, I don't I guess. Um but a lot of cops are out there right now thinking about it. Oh, no doubt, it's no doubt about it, and they don't have to actually do it, but having that thought there is the first step of it, just digging into that head. Like I never thought it would ever cross my mind. So I'm sitting down there, I pulled my Glock out of the holster, had it right there on my right leg, and I was trying to think through what what I was doing, and I could I I said it to people before, I I couldn't finish a thought. Like I'd trying to be justifying why am I holding my gun? What are people gonna think? Shit, the car crew's gonna turn up and see this, and then so years before, my best mate Nathan Sharp, he killed himself, and um sorry, the reason I talk quick is because I don't want to cry, so I'm just trying to pump through it. Um Nathan Sharp, he took his own life and he was one of the like the happiest dudes I'd ever met, not a single enemy ever. And the effect he had on our lives, his death had on me and my mates' lives, especially Caleb, who we signed up together down at Golden. We were all in the same group as teenagers. If my mate Sharpie knew the impact he would have had on us for the rest of our lives, he would never have done it. And for some reason, when I was sitting there and I'd pumped myself up to do it, I'd it was like I don't know if it was a God moment or I call it a Sharpie moment, it was his nickname, his face literally came into the front of my head, like I could see him, and I just I didn't have the balls to do it, and I put the gut away, and I sat there crying for I can't even tell you how long I sat there crying for, and then and the shift was come and went back up to work to D gun, and the shame I had no one had any idea that I'd done that or was thinking that, or that I'd ever contemplated that kind of action. But the shame I had walking back into the station, you have to line up to take your gun off. There I am with three stripes on my shoulder, and all the young guys laughing and joking about the shift. I was like, I'm an embarrassment. How can I call myself a supervisor where I can't even control my own life? Like the home life had been destroyed, and then sitting there with my gun out, like I don't I'm not a cop, like I shouldn't be here, I'm not good enough to be here. So it wasn't even a relief that it didn't happen because it brought on this whole other kind of guilt and shame. So that was the end of that block. So I I kind of just went into hermit mode, didn't tell anyone, and came back to work the next week and just plodded it along, doing the absolute bare minimum. And one of my mates, Sankey, he was telling me he had a secondment out to this task force out western suburbs that he really didn't want to go to. And I was like, mate, I'll do it. I was like, I'll take it. And I think he was a bit shocked that I took it because he didn't want to go. Like he's he's one of those young blokes that is just I call him the heavy hitter of GDs, he just lives for general duties, is he's he's a gun at it, but um he was like, Yeah, I'll swap with that. I don't want to travel all the way out there, and so made a few phone calls and I was out on this second, which I thought naively of myself, I was like, this this will change everything. This will fix me, kind of like the band. I was like, this little break will just make me better, and um mate, that was one of the shittest task force I've ever been on. It was for public place shootings because of Alamadines and all them that decided to kick it off, and it was just this political knee-jerk reaction to put a task force together, and the rostering was crap, the taskings were crap. The teams I had I made some mad friends I still talk to today in those teams, so when we didn't have taskings, we had a ball because we were always out Mount Druid, sitting then we went out southwest met, all of northwest met. We're getting push shoots left, right, and centre, backing up the local crews at shit shop. We're having a lot of fun when we weren't dealing with the other crap, and then um the hours were crap, it was a long way away. I'd finally started like being able to get a connection with my son. I'd I'd turned we had like a turn turning point, and um, but then the rostering went to shit and I could hardly see him, and it started building up again that something in my head was just wasn't feeling right. It was it was just a cloud, and I feel sorry for some of the guys I worked with because I'd checked out. I just I didn't want to be there. I hated the cops. I hated that they were incompetent and doing a simple task force. Like yeah, you just get narrow-minded when you're at that breaking point. Um that went on for a while. Then one night we had a pursuit, went through the Druid. Um the Mounty guys jumped on, ended up car crashed into Wayland Park, just off Luxford Road, and we went in. Happy days, got the crooks, stolen car. We'd been chasing the car all night, and then a job, or not a job, it was like two, three o'clock in the morning, and this little kid came running out of one of the housing commission houses screaming. He's going help help someone's someone's smashing my house up. I was like, what the what's a kid doing like this age? And so my partner stayed with the crooks that were in custody, and I was like, I'll just go out to this kid's house, and I look up and there's there's two black fellas just beating the daylights out of each other with two by fours, just going hell for leather. Alright, long story short, because I could drag this on forever, but dosed them all up with spray, got into a wrestle, shits hit the fan, and pretty much the whole community's come out and had started having their own brawls inside this backyard because it was all unit box that backed onto it. Anyway, I started getting a bit towed up because I had the bloke on the ground cuffed. I was getting kicked left, right, and centre, up the side of myself, and I called urgent, and um I had no idea where the hell I was, and they said, Oh, where are you? I was like, Oh, North Shore 35, Urgent. And it took them a while to process that I was on this task force because they're like, Why is there a North Shore car in the middle of Mount Druid calling Urgent? Anyway, I couldn't because we've been chasing this bloke for so long. I I could not have told you where we were, and I was lucky because Polair had been involved in the pursuit, so they'll still floating around, and they've come over. I got on air and I was like, I'm 50 metres in front of the North Shore car in the park, and Polair was able to direct all the other units in. We had OSG turn up, it was GDs from the PN, GDs from Druid, um OSG, highway, like it. I'd never seen a response like it, and they came in and just cleared it out, and that was the end of me. The switch, I lost the love for the job. I just couldn't yeah, something in it for someone that loved their punch-ons and pursuit so much for all those years. I was shocked that that's what made me shut down. Yeah, yeah. It just cup was full. The cup was full, and I knew something was like really wrong. Like it it felt different this time, and so I've I had to get out of that task force and I begged my command. I was like, can I come back? I just need to be around my mates. They're like, no. So you want to go out there, you stay out there. And I put forward my case, I was like, I'm not coping out here, I can't do it financially. This has happened. I put a whole list of what's wrong. And um the HRD at that time said, You're not the only one with problems. That was their solution to me finally opening up to a boss about not coping. It was you're not the only one with problems, deal with it. I kicked off a massive stink about it. Eventually got sent back to my command, and it didn't last long. I had a day shift, I was on station and just a full-on panic attack over nothing. Just lost it, lost the plot at work, and that was something I was pretty proud of not letting people see. Like I it was always behind closed doors, I couldn't hold it in. And I remember leaving the station and I knew I would never walk back through that door again. That was I my cup was just it was gone, and everything else, like home life was gone.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:09

I was drinking like an absolute just the whole concoction of mess.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:14

Yeah, and I I was medicated to the hill, like I still am now. Um surprisingly, I've been from the first time I got diagnosed, so 2016, 2017, I've been taking a bucket load of meds just to get to work. And I know there's lots of cops out there now that are scared to go on medication because they think they won't be able to work, but actually pretty if you're on a good treatment plan for mental health medication, the cops are pretty okay with it. And I think some people hate medications, people anti-it post-COVID. I I wouldn't I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for medication. But yeah, I went off work and I just medicated up. I was drinking a bottle of fireball every four days. Oh, good drop. Yeah. It's just liquid. It's sweet. But yeah, I just drink it straight from the bottle. Yeah. I wouldn't get out of my bed for days. Like I was it I was at my line. That was it. That's it. That was it. Like I couldn't even function to get out of bed. I'd the body shut down for so long. I think it might have been its it was recoup. Like it was just it all hit. Just complete exhaustion. Yeah, I got chronically ill with every like stomach bugs, the flu, like it immune system just giving up as well. Everything I just knew. That's it. That's it. The job's gone. And I I've I'll be honest, I I still can't accept it. And this is only how long ago? So I got my official discharge August last year, and I was off for about a year before that's about how long the whole process took. So we're looking at a year and a half, nearly two years now, since I strapped up. And I still can't accept it. It's like I wish I could come on here and be like, all right, if you leave the cops, this is this is how you do it, this is how you feel better. And I love when I do hear people talk about it. Like, especially on this podcast, you get a lot, there's a lot of success stories 100%. Um yeah, I struggle with it still to still fresh, it's still fresh, and I don't know anything apart from being a cop. Um like I was young, like some joins fresh out of school, but I joined 21. But I was an immature 21-year-old when I joined. So my whole adulting and how to learn how to be an adult shaped by policing, is completely shaped by the cops. So to picture a world without that, and I know there is, like, I'm not naive that this is a be-all and end all, but it is really hard to convince yourself, like I was gonna be a lifer. That was my plan from the start. So it is a big thing. It's just I want people to know that they're not the only one that's shit scared of leaving the cops or shit scared of what's gonna happen, or at that breaking point where they think there's no other choice, it will get better. It does get better. I've seen people get better, so it obviously does. It's just stepping away from a career you loved not by your choice. Is really hard. Like if I'd said this is going to be my end date, here's my badge, here's my uniform. Yeah, yeah, I get it. But for it to be on someone else's timeline, yeah, it's just it's not complete. I'm sure there's lots of ex cops that will go, no, you're a fucking dickhead, shut up. And there'll be a few that go, yeah, I agree with you. But it's for me personally, I I hadn't cried for a long time once I went off work. Like I just went emotionally dead. And then I got a call that I had to hand in my badge and my uniform and all that kind of stuff. And that was the first time I was able to let emotion out in a long time. And I think about it, I was like, wow, that's it must have been built up because it's I was just pulling a bit of metal out of my pocket and handing it to someone, but the symbolic like I'd carried that badge every day from graduation. Like some people don't do it, but I always had mine in my pocket. I remember getting back in my car and I handed it to the supervisor. We're parked up in the car under the harbour bridge. Cause I didn't want to go into the police station. Handed him a shopping bag full of uniform that all fit in one bag. And in the badge I got in, I was like, is that the end? Like I thought there might be some sort of relief, but it was just another day. I don't know where I was going to with that. I kind of digressed it digressed a bit off. No, I get it. Yeah, I totally get it, mate. It was Yeah, it's a hard step. And I'm sure lots of like those people that are in a lot longer than I was that probably struggle a lot more than that. Of course, yeah. Yeah, it's it's a funny world being in. And then being out so quickly. The transition's difficult. If you don't have a plan B. Some guys I know it some are blessed and some are smart enough to have a plan B so they're able to transition quickly out of the cops. But I know like me and a lot of guys I joined with, we had no plan B, it was just joined forever. So it is a big learning curve trying to get to what's next. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 2:37:37

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:40

But yeah, so then yeah, that's got me to basically to where we are today.

SPEAKER_03 2:37:45

What is next?

SPEAKER_01 2:37:48

I'm not sure. I'm still trying to work out how to be a civilian and not be in my cop for my cop brain all the time. Um that's my biggest thing at the moment is trying just to work out how to be that naive civvy that just walks past walks down the street. Not walks past stuff, because I've still jumped in and helped things not go certain ways since. But yeah, not try and be a cop still.

SPEAKER_02 2:38:29

Yeah, take that cop hat off. Yeah, I've got plenty of mates that have freshly out of the police and it's when we do something like, oh, you can't do that. I'm like, shut your mouth, mate. You're not a cop anymore. Just do it. What was I was take that cap off?

SPEAKER_01 2:38:44

I was with my missus the other day, Tammy, and we were driving around. I said, Oh, look at this She goes, You're not a cop. I was like, Oh yeah, oh I'm not, damn. Like, fuck. Like just everything, I'm pointing stuff out, she's like, just which is good. She's my calming voice at the moment that's keeping me settled. And it's it's good because I'm on the Instagram thing you mentioned at the start, it's purely made for cops to look at and go, I can relate to that. I'm not the only one with that thought, or just things that like social media is full of angry bullshit all the time. If if I'm having a shit day and I open Instagram, it's just constant rambling about shit, or this is wrong, that's wrong. It's just a negative place to be. I figured if I could have a page where I people like me could open it and relate and not feel bad after reading it, it might do something. There's nothing in it for me in any way, but it it keeps me connected with people in the job. Like-minded people, yes, like-minded people, which when you leave the cops, you're out of that bubble, not intentionally, but you're just away from it. It keeps you in communication with your like-minded people, and then they can also relate to your experiences. Like, I've had people contact me, I did a podcast not long ago, and the amount of people that have reached out that have gone through exactly the same thing but never talked about it. I was like, Wow, this is something I can work on. So at the moment, that's just keeping me going day to day, and I'm lucky like that whole Code Red thing, my my miss has designed the logo for it, and she supports it like crazy, which if she didn't, I don't know what I'd do with myself, really. That's the only thing that kind of keeps me going at the moment, social media, because some days you don't want to leave the house, you don't want to get out of bed. That's the joys of PTSD. Some days you're manic, some weeks you you're down, so I can just sit there inside and type away. And like I had what was it last week? One of my old inspectors called me up. Said, Oh, I just listened to this, this, and this. I remember you doing that. And we were able to debrief a job from ten years ago that neither of us had ever debriefed about. And I was like, I'm happy at the moment just being that middle guy on Instagram, just trying to make people feel normal. Yeah. If that makes sense, exactly. Yeah. And it yeah, it I wish I knew what was ahead. Um like dealing with insurance companies and because I got the physical injury, the PTSDs, it's a long process, so I'm just thinking one day at a time at this stage, just trying to get through this and my ultimate plan is just to be the best dad I can be. Yeah. Like I feel like I got a lot of I feel like I've got a lot of making up to do for him. I know that like my family says I don't. He probably doesn't think I do. But you know when you got something inside you that you gotta do better. That's my main objective is to be a better dad than I have been. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:42:33

Yeah, yeah, that got I get it, man. I've got four kids and I reflect on it a lot when I do things, and I'm like, fuck. Yeah, shouldn't it do that?

SPEAKER_01 2:42:46

And no one else sees it, but you it's inside you.

SPEAKER_02 2:42:48

Yeah, yeah. I had something the other day, I'm like, fuck, shouldn't it that? Why did I say that? Yeah, you dickhead.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:56

I call I call myself that all the time. Yeah, I can't say fucking dickhead.

SPEAKER_02 2:43:00

I just do it. Yeah, right, mate. Obviously, that leads us to the current day, and uh yeah, I guess that's that's where we are. And I suppose probably the best time to move on to this final part of the podcast, mate. A couple of final questions, mate. And you know, the first one is kind of all that, you know, giving your two cents on and advice to other people. So I guess, yeah, first question, mate. What advice can you give to people just to keep on keeping on completing any goal they set their mind to and just to crush it in life?

SPEAKER_01 2:43:35

For me, it was to get to the point in my own head where other people's opinions don't mean shit. Just if you've got an objective or you've got a plan or a dream or an out there idea, just run with it. It's your idea. It's your plan, that's your mission, it's your it's yours, no one else can bring you down. And just the keep on keeping on is when you say that I got a family friend, he's just turned 94, and that's been his saying as long as I've been alive. And that's how he finishes all these text messages. Name's Alan Staines, and he says keep on keeping on, and it's just to me that's always been block out everything else, and if you've got something you're aiming for, no one can stop you. Yeah, exactly. So just ignore everyone, crack on, get rid of negativity, keep your circle close, go hard. Yeah, it's not rocket science, what I just said. I'm sure it probably contradicts some some way in there, but that's how I do each day. I don't care for negativity around me. I've had a career of negative shit, of trauma, of rubbish. It's just of rules and policies and all that kind of gear. It's time to run your own race. Like just keep on keeping on, put your head down and just do what you want to do, no matter what. Yeah. As long as it's not crime.

SPEAKER_02 2:45:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:45:17

So just don't do crime.

SPEAKER_02 2:45:18

If you're a criminal, then keep on keeping on.

SPEAKER_01 2:45:21

See, I told you I would contradict yourself somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 2:45:24

Do do what you do best. I actually got keep on keeping on from Joe Dirt. Yeah, that's where I get it from. I watched it the last week again, too. Yeah, it's one of my favourite movies. That's deep. Just gonna keep on keeping on. Mate, um second question, what scared you most in life?

SPEAKER_01 2:45:41

Uh, I've got a serious one on funny one. Funny one is cats. Huge phobia of cats.

SPEAKER_02 2:45:48

Oh, yeah, yeah, right. Cats sit on your face when you're a baby or something.

SPEAKER_01 2:45:51

I don't know what it is, because I was talking to my old man about it the other day. Yeah, there'd be some other things for that.

SPEAKER_02 2:45:58

You'd have to kill every cat out there.

SPEAKER_01 2:46:00

The devil incarnate, there's something about them. I love them. I think they're great. No. I like I would say people with snakes and spiders, cats. I can't at all. Um the other biggest fear is not living up to what my son's expectations would be of me. And they might be like what wild expectations or low expectations. I don't know, he's still young, but that scares me.

SPEAKER_03 2:46:30

Yeah, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:46:32

Like, I know what it's like. My old man, he's lived up to every expectation I've had of him, and it makes me feel good. So I want that same feeling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because I'm proud of my old man, and I just want to be that kind of dad.

SPEAKER_02 2:46:50

Yeah, that's it. You know, when you start growing up, you know, being 20 where I've been going, fuck, my dad's gay. You know, nothing. Like, imagine fucking Albanese son. I'd just be going, oh change your name. How is he my dad? Like, I've got all the dads in the world, and God gave me this. I got this bloke, I've got this book. Fuck, I'd be sad. Mate, uh question, tell us something about it, you that people don't know. Guilty of touching. Food, music, cars, oh, cars, shoes, shoes.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:26

Oh, everyone knows about the shoes. I've had people giving me shit online for the shoes. Love that. Means they're watching. Cars. I'm an absolute car nut. Absolutely rebuilt and worked the daylights out of the SS I've got now. Yeah. And it's a weapon.

SPEAKER_02 2:47:46

Yeah. You can hear it coming, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:49

Yeah, I don't even have to knock on your door, it's just rattling the windows.

SPEAKER_02 2:47:52

5.7 litre. No, 6.3. That's a 6.3.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:56

Oof. You hear me. 6.3, full engine rebuild cam. Like, I don't even know where to start. That's just the top. All the way through. It's a new car. I love it. Um, I love my Tim Tams. Do you? I'm addicted to Tim Tim's. Just the standard ones. Just standard ones. I could like just sit there and have the whole just before bed. You've already brushed your teeth. You're ready to be. I'm like, I need Tim Tim. Tim Tim's in there. It's like my nighttime snack. And then me and my missus, she's got me into this game. We were talking about this last time. Yeah, yeah. I was meant to send you one of these. It's called Blockus. Yeah. And you gotta join different shapes. It's like, it seems like some Asian brain game. And it's probably nerdy as, but I'm addicted as heck to it. Like every time we're together, I'm like, oh yeah, let's get the blockus out. And we get like she's competitive as hell, so it gets the neighbors might think we're having a domestic and we're just dealing with who's blocked who on his blockers. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that's a weird one. And then last one is I'm mad keen on collecting World War II memorabilia and military memorabilia from like war eras. So I've got a pretty decent collection picking up now. So that's a little nerdy obsession.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:18

Yeah, no, that's cool, mate. That's cool. Yeah. Uh movie, TV show. What are you watching?

SPEAKER_01 2:49:24

What's the go-to? Oh mate, at the moment, since our last chat, I actually started on Blue Healers again from the start. Blue Healers. I think we talked about it last time. We did, yeah. I mean, I'm like, no, I'm gonna start from the beginning, like I think it's like 1991 Australian TV. Yeah. So shit. They're classics, mate. They're classics. So I've been cracking back into Blue Healers.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:45

Not as good as Water Rats. That was the fucking that was the jam Jalen Guy, I mean. I did like water rats.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:52

Did you ever watch Sea Patrol?

SPEAKER_02 2:49:54

Oh yeah, fucking love it.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:55

That was the most hardcore navy you'll ever see. Yeah. Because my miss is a navy, and I was like, oh yeah, let's watch Sea Patrol. She's like, get fucked. Yeah. Not turning that on in my house. I love that show, yeah. I thought it was sick. I'd watch it again, actually. Uh but my favourite TV show ever would be, it's called The Shield. Yep, yep. And it's about a small team of plainclothes cops that are corrupt as hell. Is that the British one? No, it's American. American one. And it's the guy who plays is he the Hulk? The bald. I'm terrible with names these days. Hulk?

SPEAKER_00 2:50:32

The Hulk?

SPEAKER_01 2:50:33

Oh nah. It's one of those Marvel things. Yep. Yep. Oh, he's a bald bloke. Anyway, it's like it goes, it went for years. So I got the box set of it, but it slowly goes through the demise of corruption. And so at the start, they're just like living like kings. And you just watch it, and then eventually they're all dead or in jail. So it's like it takes it's like a slow burn. So it's like promoting corruption to start with. Yeah. So everyone we started watching it at work, people were like, Man, you guys shouldn't be watching this if you're cops. I'm like, no, wait till the end, they all die. It's alright. So it shows it actually, it's really good for young coppers to watch, I reckon, because it shows the lifestyle of being a dodgy cop and how it can be good and look good, but then behind the scenes it shows the impact of your behaviours. So me and the boys watch it when we're in the plain clothes unit, and like it makes you think like I'm glad I'm not like that. But yeah, it's a good one. If anyone's watching it, it's it's it's a long one, you've got to sit down and watch it, but the shield, it's pretty gangster.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:41

Yeah, it's definitely still crop cops out there, there, no doubt. Yeah, no doubt, especially in Nebraska. Far around. Top down. Uh music, what do you listen to? Cruising around and your V8 mate. What's on Nikki Webster?

SPEAKER_01 2:51:56

Nicki Webster. Bit of high five. Well, actually, sometimes random shit comes on because my son, he's four, and he loves his music, but kids' music, and I'll just be pumping through the random shuffle, and all of a sudden I got pumped on when I pulled up here was um demon hunters. Oh yeah, K-pop. K pop. That is not my my jam, but my little sort of pup.

SPEAKER_02 2:52:26

Oh, he loves all of them.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:28

Like mental. But if it's my choice, I mix between like punk, punk rock. I love my Blink 182.

SPEAKER_02 2:52:35

Oh yeah, I'll I'll Blink, yeah. I was a big Blink teen. Yeah. I've met them a few times now. Of course you have. Yeah, yeah, they were. Yeah, I know. It's with uh obviously touring around the world with a certain artist. And Blink was always at the not not they're always in the same place at the same time but a different venue. Yeah. At the smaller arena venues. Yeah. Every time. And the main senior, what's the main senior's name? Mark. Tom. Tom, that's it. Him or Tom would come, Mark or Tom would come to the VIP town and just and I always have to help escort them to the area where they had to go. What they like. Yeah, just normal dude. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:20

Yeah. Me or you whenever it comes on, I just goes back to high school. Which is good, yeah. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 2:53:28

Starting to listen to Blink. Fuck, would have been year easily year nine, eight for me, and that's 1995, 96. Yeah. I started listening to Blink, I'm pretty sure when they first come out. Yeah, when they first come out, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:49

I can't believe where we are in time-wise. Like I got my 20th school reunion coming up, and I was like, Fuck one's fucking long gone, yeah. What the where's the time gone? I love yeah, my Blink. It was a band that was wasn't too popular. It was called Real Big Fish. Yeah. You know Real Big Fish? Yeah. Froth over Real Big Fish. Fucking hell. Had all their albums.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:13

That takes me back, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:15

Yeah, that that was those two were always goldfish.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:19

Who was it? Goldfinger. Goldfinger, yeah. Friends of Rom. Unwritten law. Or um Bloodhouse Gang. Yeah, Bloodhound Gang.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:28

That were they come out with that. What's that song? Oh, is it the fish? Oh, not the fish one. Um Pretty When I'm Drunk. Yeah. That one's a that's a bit messy. Good songs.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:39

Good songs. Mate, uh oh man, I guess that's fucking it. That was a good show. It was great. It was again. Again. Thanks again, mate. It's it's wild though, because I totally forgot everything we've I did maybe four or five podcasts since the last time we recorded.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:58

So that's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:59

People ask me all the time, they're like, oh, can you they'll send me a message on Instagram and be like, can you tell me that episode that was like a fucking on the wrong thing? 270. I've done 243. Yeah, 240 something plus another 20 debriefs, so and I've forgotten tons. And then you know there'll be a memory that'll jog and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:24

Um but it was good because we just did the second chat and most of that we didn't talk about in the first.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:30

No, no, no, definitely not. So that was that was good.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:34

Good to get it in.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:34

That was really good, mate. But uh for whatever reason people want to reach out to you, where can they find your Instagram?

SPEAKER_01 2:55:40

Yeah, the Insta would it's code red ben on Instagram. Um it's nothing special, but you want to have a chat or what's a code red in the police? So code red is when you go lights and sirens to a job. To a job, yeah. So it's an urgent job. So where it came from is we risk our lives driving like nut jobs to help complete strangers. Code red, flying through traffic, jumping gutters, having a ball, but risking our lives to help strangers. And we never or very rarely stop and talk to the person sitting in the passenger seat of the car and ask them how they're going. So the idea of it is just stop in, check on your mates, go code red to your mates when they need you. Because one of the biggest failings in the cops is on ground level, is when someone comes off a team or goes off sick, they're not ignored by the team on purpose. The team's just so busy that they just forget forgotten about the team's just busy and you're not in that circle that you're not ignored, you're just not you're on the outside. And a lot of cops have struggled and not been able to heal from leaving the police because they think they're By the organization. Actually, I'll I'll show you that. I think they're hated by the boots on the ground. And I thought that I had that problem for a long time. I thought I was betrayed, I hated everything. And then it came to mind that I was just out of sight. Like out of mind, out of sight. So yeah, the code red thing kind of is a reminder that check on someone you haven't spoken to for a while. Kind of thing. Yeah. That's that's where it where it came from. So yeah, if that's the best point of contact.

SPEAKER_02 2:57:38

That's about it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, awesome, mate. Well, again, appreciate you good gear. Coming back up at New Year and uh again, sharing your story again. Again. Ah, it's good. And hopefully, what I'm gonna do right now stop. I've got the double fucking device going, so I'll stop that as well. I'll transfer that straight away because I'm not losing this again. Uh but yeah, again, appreciate it, brother, and uh we'll catch up soon and have a rum. What do you drink? Rum based fireball. You still want fireball? I can't get it. I can't remember fiber first coming hours with nitro and geez. Well, we were sponsored by the whole two are sponsored by uh fireball, so we had tons of it was just next. It was 2016 or seven, I can't remember, but I had so much fireball, I was pissing fireball.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:26

Oh, it's incredible. Yeah, I took a ball the Mrs. Family the other day. I was like, Oh old mob will love it, they didn't want to touch it, it's perfect. I had more for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fireball's me. My little devil.

SPEAKER_02 2:58:41

Yeah, no, done, mate. Done. All right. Yeah, stay in contact. Yeah, sweetheart, mate. Thank you. Cheers, brother. Have a good one.