Ep. 247 Eddie Robertson "Fast Eddie" 2nd Commando Regiment - Private Security Contractor

On this Zero Limits Podcast host Matty Morris chats with Eddie Robertson 2nd Commando Regiment & Private Security Contractor 

Born in Albury in 1979, Eddie Robertson forged a career through some of the most demanding environments in modern military history. From joining the Australian Army Reserve in 1997 and serving with the 2nd Commando Company and later 4th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment (Commando), Eddie deployed to East Timor and multiple tours in Afghanistan with the Special Operations Task Group, including service with TAG-East and as part of a personal security detail for senior ISAF leadership. Between military postings, he operated on the private security circuit throughout Iraq during the height of the conflict, working for major international security firms in hostile environments.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:16

It's time for the Zero Limits podcast, hosted by an Australian veterans. Chatting with high-charging humans with hectic stories from around the world, we'll give you the motivation to take on whatever life throws at you in the game to complete any goal you set your mind to. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Zero Limits listeners on today's Zerinless Podcast joined in the Newcastle studio by a veteran of Australian Defense Force. Spent a bit of time as a Choco, transferred into the regular army, uh moving into 4A. However, after a couple of years, after a T-Mor trip. Obviously, the you know, the post-9-11 Iraq kicked off and the contracting scene kicked off. We know that a lot of guys, the Troy Knights, etc., all moved into that contracting world because of the money was uh exorbitant and they could take their samurai swords as well. Um, and then obviously got back in the defense force, uh more specifically for our art, then obviously turning into two commando, a whole bunch of trips to Afghan and then uh back into the private security world. But how are you?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Thanks for having me, mate. It's uh I guess it's been a long time coming, but I've only just recently uh reinserted myself into the social media um podcast realm, and I'm here to uh have a yarn and have a few laughs and yeah, spread the spread the good word.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Mate, we just have we just had Scojo here, uh Scott Jones, and obviously you go way back with him, and um you know obviously he's projected himself into that Instagram world, but he contributes a lot of his thoughts and processes to you being the OG of the Instagram, you know, social media world and putting it out there, you know, what you did.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Yeah, look, I I was pretty lucky. I um I had a had a mate of mine, I won't mention his name, but he he encouraged me to go into that. He'd already gone into that space. Um I'm not gonna say his name, but guys will know who I'm talking about. He moved over to the States Um and he just said, Look, man, jump on board, you know, like you've got to tell these stories. And um, you know, I I did, and um, you know, I I followed his advice and I I didn't know anything. I didn't know what a hashtag was or or even the like, you know, how to tag someone else, or you know, and I and and I it was a bit of a learning curve, you know, and um, but it it gained a bit of a momentum, and um I found that when I started to um I wanted to tell the stories of the guys, like so I started off, you know, like I'd I'd you know put a picture up of one of the guys and who'd you know passed away and I and I'd just put the date um you know date of birth, date he was KIA, and then I'd just write a little sort of a spiel, you know, like you know, this this is who he was, um, this is how he was KIA, um, and this is how he was remembered by us and and and how his family remembered him because I, you know, I'd been to a lot of those funerals and um and it was just a way of just sort of kind of like I it wasn't monetized or anything like that, it was just my way of sort of um spreading the word, you know, like telling their stories. Um I'd previously been involved in um Australian story, like telling Cam Bed's story, and um that was great, you know, like that was a big production though, like ABC, and and took a number of uh months to put that together and a lot of moving parts, and you know, but this was my way of kind of just sort of very easy to find a good picture, um write a bit of a blurb, um, you know, honour them in my own way, and then just pr press upload and and boom, it's out there. And um look, you know, for the most part, like it got a really good response. You know, like there was a lot of people would um like anything, man, you're gonna get like, you know, trolls or whatever, and and that's fine, man. If people enjoy doing that, that's their prerogative. But um a lot of people would, you know, like write comments and that would just be like, oh, you know, it's nice to hear that that side of the, you know, I heard about when he was killed, and I read about it in the telegraph or the sun or whatever. And um, but I didn't know that, you know, he liked to, he was into um restoring furniture or he loved fishing or you know, whatever you I I included in these little spills and I really enjoyed it, you know. And then I so I'd I'd I but it wasn't all about that, and then I'd like you know, find some crazy picture of a you know, like a burned out vehicle or something, and I'd tell a story about what happened there, and I'd I I started using um emojis, and I think that's what appealed to a lot of the younger people because like you got this. I mean, I'm 47 now, and like I'm talking, this was 10 years ago, so I'm like this guy in his late 30s who's using these fucking i I didn't I thought they're just cool little pictures that help tell the story, and it's not not until my own kids sort of say to me, like, I still send them to them in their text message, I've got teenage kids, and like, dad, that's so lame, you know. Yeah, like um, but yeah, but at the time I think you know, a lot of people sort of thought, oh, you know, like you know, it's funny. Like, well, he's not trying to be funny, but he's just sort of I'd I'd I'd look I'd use the Australian flag, um, the crossed swords, um, the like raised yellow fist, so it wasn't like a white fist or a black fist, just the yellow to denote, you know, like all everyone, you know, like a fist up. Um I'd use like the the if it was about a guy that was killed, I'd use the dove, you know, like and I'd write like, you know, blue skies, like blue skies to the fallen. And I didn't like to use rest in peace, but I just write blue skies and I'd use the dove and to symbolise, you know, peace and all that. And um, yeah, look, it was great. And and as as we were talking to Scotty earlier, um it it became a bit of a juggernaut. And I I can't remember how it I think at one stage I ended up getting close to 20,000 followers, and I and like I wasn't buying the followers or anything like that. It was just another guy that'd shout me out and and help me boot, and then I did a few podcasts and they'd shout me out, and then it was building up. But I'd get a lot of DMs, um, and not the kind of DMs people are probably sitting there hoping I'm gonna say, like, not good-looking young women or anything like that. A lot of the time it was just sort of young, young dudes um that were like wanting to ask questions who about joining joining the defense force, you know, like I'm joining the army, and and like and they you could tell by the way they'd written these messages that they they would it was genuine inquiry. And I sort of took it upon myself to reply to these guys and say, look, you know, if you're interested, you know, I'd always direct them to the defense force recruiting, you know, I'd do the right thing and I'd answer whatever questions I could. But then sometimes I'd I you know, by by opening that channel of communication, sometimes then a lot of these young blokes would then sort of want to offload and like you know, they want to tell me why they wanted to join the army or um, you know, they had stuff going on at home and things like that. And look, I consider myself a bit of a you know, like I wouldn't say an empath, but like I do care about people, like genuine people, and if they're suffering or struggling or whatever, I I'd like to, you know, help them if I could. And I found I was sort of taking on a lot of this, like, you know, I was kind of going, I don't have the capacity to to like a psychologist, yeah. 100%, man. I'm not A, I'm not trained to do this, and and B, I like I shouldn't be like and so I just made the decision. I I I I told the stories about the the the 40 guys that I that had been killed, um, a few funny stories, um, you know, funny posts, whatever. And um, I just made the decision to shut it down. Um, and for my own mental health, um, and at the time it was the right thing for me to do because I needed to devote my time into other things. Um, and it was taking up a lot of time, man. And and it was never about money, but it was kind of like, geez, I'm putting a lot of time into this, and it's like it's not, it's not, it's it's actually making me like, you know, it's bringing me down a little bit. Um, because I I was thinking like shit, you know, like I'm not answering all these qu like I'm not and these these people, these young blokes are gonna be going, oh, this bloke's a prick, you know, like he's he's not gonna give me a hand or help me out, and so I just shut it down, man.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Yeah, mate, I I totally, you know, I understand where you come from. I'm in that space now, you know, and have been for quite some time now, and you get those messages and you try, I'm the same. I gotta reply to everyone as much as possible. If I if so if someone sends me a message, I'll slowly get get back to it. But I I like I feel like uh it's my role. I need to do it. But like you said, some of them do start to open. I'm like, fuck, like I'm just a I'm just a I'm just a dumb dude, and like just a knuckle dragger, man.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah, I'm just a knuckle dragger and fucked up in life plenty of times, so probably not the best person, but I can give you what you want, but like just Yeah, and sometimes you know, sometimes it's good to get um bit of life advice from people who have made mistakes along the way. Yeah, yeah. But um doing it in a that's more so I think if it's you know it's a family friend and they've got a teenage son that's off the rails and they say, look, do you mind having a chat to young John O or whatever? And you know, I've tried to I've tried to teach him, you know, that he's he's on the wrong path, but maybe he'll have a listen to you, you know, and that's that's a different scenario. But when it's like you know, you're dealing with an anonymous party's online and you know, and you don't know who and it I think it can potentially go into a space where you don't want it to go. It could, yeah. Um, I know I mean I I remember there was one particular young fellow, I'm not gonna say his name, but he started sort of reaching out to sort of all the guys who were sort of uh going into that sort of like online world, and um he just desperately wanted to join the army, and I think he ended up joining the army, but then I heard that he had um taken his life after he after he'd gone into the army, and um, you know, I mean I if that had happened leading up to it or whatever, I don't know the circumstances, but I'd I'd just I mean I that'd be a terrible thing to have on your conscience, like if you'd been messaging this fella and give maybe giving him advice, but it's not the advice, and he wasn't in the mental space to hear what you were saying to him, and something terrible like that happened. Um yeah, I'd it'd be a tough thing to sort of have on his fucking conscience, man.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Yeah, no, exactly, exactly. But uh obviously with your Instagram, what you're doing, like you said, uh you know, kind of you know, I think SSV moved into sanctions of violence moved into that that platform where they started, you know, sharing stories of the guys and you know doing write-ups, which is great. And obviously, they did one about you. Yes. Um, but you know, we we caught up just before before we started this podcast with Scojo at the coffee shop, and we had a good chat about a few things, and obviously, you know, Brett Wood come to you know come to mind, and obviously you got a ton of stories about him and obviously Betty as well. So, which you know, we talk about the 2007 trip when Betty got his uh MG. You got the commendation as well. So we'll definitely talk about that whole incident with uh Luke Worsey. 100%, mate. Yeah, and uh but before we do, let's before we move into all that stuff, let's find out about you back to those younger days, mate. Let's let's let's let's figure this out from the start.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah, no worries, man. Um, before this all led to Dan Belzerian, which we'll get to. Yeah, right, okay. The blitz. Um, yeah, look, mate, um I you know this is on the record, and and I've said it a few, but I'm happy to say it again. Look, I'm uh born in 1979 in um Aubrey down on the border of New South Wales and Victoria. A lot of people call it Aubrey Wadonga, but yeah, it's a twin city. Uh the river runs through it, which is the state line of Victoria. Uh yeah, look, my dad was a pilot for Ancet. Um, a lot of people don't know what Ansett was. It was an Australian aviation company that uh uh ended up um uh going into receivership. We went defunct. I think the government sort of tried to buy it out, but it was one of the aviation companies. Um they did a lot of like regional flights, they did a bit of stuff in and out of Fiji. Um but yeah, dad was a Boeing pilot for them. Um so yeah, like I was born in Aubrey. Um we spent time in um Sydney, Darwin, Adelaide, Melbourne.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

I should say he's just getting posted around.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Yeah, that's how they used to do it back then, you know. Um same with the flight engineers too, you know. It's um so they'd um they'd pretty much, you know, they'd say, all right, right, you know, my dad's name was Phil. They'd be like, you know, all right, Phil, um, we're gonna send you up to Darwin. Um, you know, you take the wife and the son up there, you do a couple of years up there, and then we'll look at bringing you down to Adelaide and um, you know, we'll put you on a different airframe down there or whatever. However, they this is back a long time ago, you know. And so dad did that, and um we eventually uh then the whole thing went down with Ansett, and he was basically retrenched. Um and uh being a commercial pilot, uh he they have what's called type ratings. So they they they for instance, he was qualified to fly a 737300 series, and so depending on the type of aircraft, is like what where you can go, you know. Um, and at the time there wasn't much work for what he was qualified in. So he then they made the decision to move back to Aubrey where our family's based, and he went into business with his brother. Um, basically had a a company that was um it's not like Tim Allen on home improvements, but it was a it was a company called Winterburn Home Improvements, and they used to make security doors and blinds, um that kind of sort of stuff, you know. They had a big factory, they had a I think they had about 30 guys working there. Yeah, it was a pretty big concern. And anyway, so dad did that, and um, yeah, he did that for a few years, and then he eventually got offered a job with um uh working for the Qatar Airways in Doha and Qatar, yeah. So he um and that was his way to get his foot back into the aviation industry, yep, because there wasn't much going domestically. So he I was in year 10, I think, 1994. So 94, 95, 96, dad was living and working in Doha. Um, and he'd come home every six months for like a month. And um, yeah, so look, you know, it was me and my two brothers, they're they're a bit younger than me. Mum was working at the time. Um, she was working at a real estate agent. Um, so the Yanks say latch key kids. Well, you know, like yeah, I'm the older brother, and I've got two uh two brothers, eight and seven years younger than me, and like we catch the bus home from school and you know, I do our homework, fuck around with the footy in the backyard or whatever, and then mum had come home and you pretty much brought yourselves up. Yeah, yeah. Look, and it wasn't look, you know, look, dad had to do what he had to do. Exactly right, yeah. Um mum, great, great family, great upbringing, mate. I got no complaints. Um, you know, it's and and then yeah, like I finished school in in '96, and um I did I just didn't really have uh any aspirations to go. Um I actually competed in um uh in snowboarding because uh a lot of people don't like Aubrey Wadonga's sort of not on the base of the Victorian snow. I mean, I actually ended up a lot, a lot of people don't know this about me. A few of the boys in the army did, but I actually represented Australia at the junior world championships in Ruoka in Finland in giant slalom. So it wasn't half pipe or anything, it was it was alpine snowboarding. GS Slalem. Uh they don't really do it anymore. And I also went to the the world championships, like the FIS, like Federation International to Ski, um, world championships in Cornell Scale in Italy. Um, so I did that when I finished school and I was at a crossroads whether or not I could look at going professional. Um the Olympic Games was coming up in Nagano in Japan, and um the the main sort of Australian snowboarder at the time was a guy called Zeke Stegle, and his sister is Zali Stegle, who represented in the moguls, and she became a teal politician. Yeah, took Tony Abbott's seat. But yeah, Zeke was kind of he was a few years older than me, and and they come from quite a wealthy family, and and there's no money in Australian snow sports. You the m you can only compete if you're you come from a family with money. Of course, yeah. So yeah, so I joined the army. Um where does that come from though?

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Like, where does the defence force come into your mind? You've got family history, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

So that's so to break it down, um my so we have a family lineage that goes back to the first world war. We don't have anyone that was uh involved in the Boer War, but the first world war, um my grandmother's uncle, uh Harold Silameyer, was a uh veterinary officer, and he was killed um by artillery fire alongside his horse. Um he was an equine vet, um, and he was killed um in the trenches by uh artillery um like shrapnel. Um and so the Sealemeyer family were Prussians, they came from Prussia. Um, so a lot of people don't know which part of the world that is, but so um the Silemeyers um some of them were were German Jews. Um I myself I'm not I'm not I'm not Jewish, and if I was I'd tell you. But like they they came, yeah. So the Sealemeyers were Prussians, and um so that was my grandmother's sort of side of the family, and then there was also the um Capuano family, which was pretty big down in Victoria. Um they um I think it's an uh Aussie Rules football football player that I think played for North Melbourne, Capuano, but um they shortened their name to CAP, C-A-D-P, because they obviously copped a lot of grief coming over. Um, but yeah, we that was my grandmother's side of the family. Um, and then my mother's father was a he was an older vet, he was living in Perth, um, and his father was the minister for mines in Western Australia. And uh so he'd he was working, my grandfather was working as a basically like a mapping and reconnaissance pilot for the Shell, they used to call it the Shell Vacuum Oil Company. So it was the Shell Oil Company in Western Australia, and so he'd do a lot of the the flight, like they'd fly out and sort of go and oversee their operations and deliver executives around. And then when the Second World War kicked off, he basically, because he was a qualified pilot, he was second, he was basically recruited directly into the RAAF as a s I think he went straight in pretty much as a squadron leader, and he flew Catalina flying boats in the Pacific. Um, and they did um you know the medical evacuations, they dropped ammo off over there, they did reconnaissance missions, um, anti-like they they dropped like um shipping mines and stuff like that. They did a whole range of um missions, and then after the Second World War concluded, my grandfather actually ended up working as General MacArthur's Air Force liaison officer in in the Philippines. Um, and you know, he had a he had a wristwatch that was gifted to him by General MacArthur that you know, like we and we found out a lot of this stuff, you know, uh towards the end of his life because he didn't really sort of talk a hell of a lot about it, but he was he was very proud of his service and um quite distinguished. And then dad's father, um Eric Francis Robertson, he was um this is gonna trip you out, man. So my great-grandfather on dad's side is a gentleman called Sir McPherson Robertson who basically created what's um now Cadbury Schweps in Australia. Oh no way. So McRobertson's chocolate, so um old gold chocolate, Freddo Frogs, Columbines, um, chewing gum. He bought the recipe for Chewy over from America. Um, and he was a Scotsman that basically started off making um sugar candy in a in an old bloody nail can in his mother's bathroom in a shitty old house in Fitzroy in Melbourne. And and he was just a very hard-working, industrious young bloke, and and he built that huge company. Um, and in the Second World War, it ended up being re-rolled to make rations and um instead of chocolate and candy, they'd made a lot of ration packs and care packages for the soldiers. But so my his his son, his two sons, it was Norman and then my grandfather Eric, Norman was groomed to but pretty much take over the operations of the company, whereas Eric um he volunteered for the for the army as an artillery and he went in as a sergeant, right? And um, but his trade, he was a he was a chemist by trade, he was a scientist, and so once he got into the um into the army, into the um artillery corps, he they quit pretty quickly discovered that he this guy was like, you know, fuck, you know, this guy should be an officer, not for tactics, but he actually developed a a coating for the um artillery pieces that were over in the in the in PNG to stop them from corroding. Um so he saw service in the in the in the Pacific, um, specifically PNG, but not direct combat. He was he he was a boffin, you know what I mean? He was a s like if he was alive now, he'd be working for DSTO or something. Yeah, yeah. So that was that's the the two grandfathers. And then my uncle, who's pretty much like my pseudo father figure, um, his name's Arthur McDonald, another Scotsman. Um, he's just moved down to Phillip Island um for his retirement and he loves it down there. Um, he was a Nasho. Um, he was conscripted um And he ended up in, as he calls it, two raw, like two R A R.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Um, he was going to uni in Canberra, uh, very promising AFL career ahead of him. He he was probably gonna look at going all the way. He was a very he was engaged to be married quite young, and his numbers got called up. And um, and his father was a World War II vet and so anyway, Matt got caught up. Um, he went and did his bit, as he as he says, and um unfortunately he copped a few injuries over there, and and um, but nothing that he ever bitched or complained about, he came back and cracked on, and he ended up working for a company called AAT Kings, which was a big tourism company. They used to do like bus tours out in the out back and stuff like that. And then he started his own marketing company up on the Gold Coast called Templar Marketing with his with his mate, his best mate, Robbie. Um, and so yeah, like the you know, the Knights Templar Marketing. Templar marketing, and and yeah, they ran a very successful business and they employed people, and um, and yeah, like just not long, not too long ago, he him and Robbie folded it and decided to retire. And so Mac lives it, but Mac was very um important male role model as I was growing up. Um he never like sort of talked about the war so much. Like he he he never shot, he said, yeah, I was a soldier, I was a grunt, I was an infantryman and this is Vietnam War. Vietnam, yeah, yeah, and um 2RR in Vietnam. And um, but yeah, he I just distinctly remember he said to me once, you know, he goes, you know, mate, when you're in a when you're in a hole in the ground and your life's on the line, and and you you might be there with a blake, you don't know where he's from or even what his surname is, but you know, when you're in that situation and and you know, you you do anything for him and he'd do anything for you, you know, to get out of there in one piece and uh watch each other's back, you know, and um that appealed to me as a young bloke, you know. I thought, you know, that's that's mateship, that's camaraderie that I hear, you know. I used to hear my grandfather talk about the camaraderie in the air force, and and and I guess that's that's what appealed to me to want to join the army. Um it wasn't for you know chasing you know glory or war or anything like that. It was just to me, it was just an adventure. I was just a young bloke.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Of course, yeah. Yeah. Did any of those words resonate? Obviously, down the track you serve in Afghanistan. Again, we'll talk about the Cambird thing because you're right next to him dragging a mortally wounded soldier, Luke Worsley, out of you know, at a gunfight. So, you know, yeah, when you talk about two soldiers next to each other, yeah, it's one of those scenarios.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Oh, look, mate, yeah, it's and I've I've personally also witnessed guys in that situation and seen them do exactly the same thing, and I'm sure you have too, you know, and uh and it's um it's it's very hard to explain it to people that don't come from a a service background. Um and in particular, like I'm not trying to sound elite here, but particularly people that don't really come from like a combat arms background, um you know, like when you're talking about grunts, you know, like infantry soldiers that like, you know, live and sleep in the dirt, and you know, like, yeah, I mean we it's a shitty job, but someone's got to do it, and we do it, and we, you know, it's tough at times, but you're in it together, you know what I mean? And um, yeah, there's a rank structure, and you know, guys move up the rank structure and and and things change from time to time and team dynamics change, but the the core essence of it is is like you know, you're a bunch of blokes, you know, um strutting around out in the bush somewhere, you know, people looking to kill you, you're looking to find them. Um it's tough, you know, like and and all you got is each other. And when the when the rounds start firing, you know, you've got to know that you've got to rely on those blokes next, and they've got to rely on you, you know, and um, and if you don't, things can come unstuck pretty quickly. And um, and I mate, I've and uh it's they all blokes always say, Oh yeah, the training kicked in and everything just seemed to sort of go in slow motion, or just sort of it just happened, it just unfolded, and and it's true, you know, and and part of the training is that they always you know, the man to the left and the right of you, you know, like you you're not rolling solo out there like you're a team, you know, and that's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

And just quickly, like I just want to, you know, we speak about Cambed, you know, Cambed VCMG, also, you know, be you know, the current scenario and you know, environment that we're that we're living in now with Ben Rold Smith, VCMG, also he's got accommodation gallantry. Like, what does it take for a human being like those blokes to just continually, you know, I'm sure there's a ton of other guys out there that haven't been recognised, but yeah, to continually just forever just putting themselves at risk and doing things that Yeah, and and look, mate, you know, the thing with RS, you know, like I can talk for Bertie, um, and and I and I, as I say, I always do with the blessing of the family, you know, and I know I've got that blessing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

I never talk out of school. I've been there's been times where I've been asked about his you know his previous marriage and things like that. I don't go there, you know what I mean? Like uh out of respect for his ex-wife and also for the family. But when it comes to talking about him as a man and and as a soldier, and I'm I'll talk about it all day because I you know he was my best mate and and I knew what made the bloke tick, you know, and and it was, you know, I mean, and you know, you I'd said it before, you go into the guy's house, you know, and he's got like he's got a painting of a Scottish Highlander up on the wall, you know, and and a and a or a guy playing the bagpipes going into battle, and and then a picture of a Roman Roman soldier, and and he just like he was one of those guys that just sort of I guess like martial, like military service and um, you know, defending your people, and you know, and a lot of people think that that's a concept that's really kind of archaic, or you know, there's something wrong with with wanting to be inspired by that, you know, particularly with the way the world's going with this woke ideology, and but there's been people like sent you could call them um, you know, sentinels or protectors or you know, shepherds or uh in societies around the world since the beginning of time, you know, we need people like that. We need and and uh to to segue it into RS, you know, like you know, I know RS, mate. He knows me. And you know, I I knew RS when he was back at 3RO back in the day, you know, and and you know, the last time I saw RS was at Beardy's investiture at Government House in Canberra. And um, you know, I I walked in there with my my wife at the time, but now ex-wife, you know, mother of my children, you know. But um I walked in there and I was there as a civilian. The Bravo boys that'd already arrived, they were all up the back in in their ceremonial dress, and I rode in there with another mad cunt mate of mine that you've got to get on this podcast, Bushy. Shout out to Sam Bush. Um he's living up in Cairns working as a fucking commercial electrician, but he's a he's got some good seasons. Yeah, he was on Op Nile and Woodback. Yeah, yeah, I'll put you in touch, mate. Good, good clubs.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

I'll go up cans for a weekend. Oh, yeah, mate.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Take your beer up there, yeah. Oh mate, he's got a great place, good setup, and he's a good good for a young. But anyway, but um, so I roll in there with the ex-wife and and Bushy, and you know, we'd had a few drinks the night before in the hotel that they put us up in, and we roll in there late. Well, not by our own own, but as we walked in there to get our night name signed off, there's R S and he's in the middle of a deep and conversation with Tony Abbott, um, Gus uh Gilmore, the sockist at the time, and and there was someone else there, I it wasn't Bill Shaw, but it was some other key politician or whatever. And as we walked in, he he looked up and he saw me, and he basically just funked those three people to make a beeline over, and he came and he shook my hand, and he's like, Hey Eddie, how you going, mate? You know, because he knew that me and Betty were fucking good mates, you know, and and you know, I was out of the fold. I'm not, I'm I'm a civvy now, you know, and I'm I don't I don't really like those kind of like big sort of um pomp and ceremony events. Like I kind of I I love watching them, but I don't like sort of being involved in them. And um, so I'm there as a guest of the family, and right up the front, while the you know, Quentin Bryce is handing his fucking incredible piece of you know history over to his parents, and it was tough, you know. Like I and I I'm not I'm not afraid to show my emotions, you know. I'm I'm a you know, but it was a tough day for me, man, you know, and um but R S came up, you know, and he he he he came up and he shook my hand and he goes, you know, mate, if you if you need to have a chat, mate, just reach out to me because we've got a good mutual friend up in Brisbane, you know, and I I don't have RS's number in my phone, and you know, the the AFP probably wish I did, but um, you know, anyway, but but um and I thought, you know what, mate, like that's he didn't have to do that, you know what I mean? Like, and because the last time I saw RS before that was in Camp Russell in TK, and we actually had a bit of a a run-in, like a verbal stouch in the mess hall. Um, I won't go I mean, I'm not gonna he'll probably laugh if he hears this, because and the boys who were there will laugh. It was just when he got a bunch of fucking alpha males who were running in the red line, and that was the SASO and commander. And look, mate, it was like I had fucking really good mates that were the guys that were, and it's not the whole four R to Perth thing or whatever. I had mates that when I got out of when I left to go contracting, right? And the first time, and I was running around in Baghdad, there were there were blokes from SASO who done the same thing. They'd been told, if you leave, you'll never come back. You know, if you go over there chasing money or whatever, you're not welcome back here. So we were all like these outcasts over there, and and I remember there was like a couple of times, like I'm not gonna say his name, he's his first name's Steve, um, from Perth. He's a very intense individual, I can be as well, and and people know who I'm talking about, and I really like this guy, he's a he's good value. And um, I remember one day he was running some kind of solo op out on fucking BIAP and like root irish, and he's just cruising around in this fucking Cadillac on his own. And I'd seen him driving around the green zone in it, and I was like, Oh, that's fucking Steve, the mad cunt. And I and I was in a motorcade, I was the tactical commander, so I'm up the front with the comms like directing the motorcade. I'm like, listen, I know this guy, let's form a bubble around him and get him into the to the checkpoint, you know. Like, and he didn't ring me or ask me or anything, and I just saw him, I thought, yeah, I'll do you a solid bro. And he he he didn't forget that. And and then next thing you know, we we both re-enlisted and we're at TK, and you got we meant to be prescribed to this like inter-unit rivalry. I never got into that shit, bro. It was just counterproductive. But yeah, the thing with RS was, you know, like I said to him, I go, you know, man, look, we've been outside the wire for fucking 28 days down in Helmand. We haven't had any fresh food. We've we've been I had to throw my cams in the fire pit because they're fucking putrid. And we've come in here and they're on reverse cycle, and we just happened to go in there at the wrong meal time. We weren't meant to be in there, but we'd been awake for 20, we were fucking starving and and tired, and and um, you know, RS, he obviously was under the pump as well, and and he he had a word to one of my mates, and my mate was kind of like, Oh shit, you know, like I don't want any trouble and left. And I just turned around and said, Fucking hell, RS, is that necessary, bro? Like, you know, we're all fucking on the same side here. And he, you know, he said to me afterwards, like, he goes, Oh, look, you know, fucking, it was a bit of a misunderstanding. And like, I like the guy. Um, I I think what's happened to him is wrong. I'm not gonna get into the fucking legalities of it, man. I'll leave that to Skojo. He's better suited to talk about that because he's got more knowledge about it than I do. But one thing I will say, man, from a perspective, and I I put a post up on Instagram about it, you know. I wrote not on Anzac Day because I didn't want to be political on Anzac Day, but the night before I wrote, you know, um, I can talk about Beardy, I always put a tribute up for him, and I said, you know, I know Cam would have been fucking disgusted with the way that this whole shit's gone down, like the Brereton inquiry, the fucking, you know, these secret recordings and surveillance and and people getting because I I'll tell you one thing, Maddie, you're right, and you know this, man, and and this is for the benefit of the listeners what they did to RS at the Sydney airport was that was nothing more than a political Marxist humiliation ritual, right? And and I I will talk seriously for a moment about that. They his lawyers, as they know, that had said, look, through Ben's saying through us, you know, let us know when you want us to come in. We'll come in, we're not going anywhere, like we'll come in. To do that in front of his two teenage daughters, that he was taking, you know, daddy daughter date taking them shopping in Sydney, you know, a bit of an adventure, they probably would have been on a high Easter holidays, whatever. To do that to him in front of his children in a packed airport, to then have all of a sudden have these Channel 9 news crew just happening to be on the tarmac, you know, and then not only that, to fly a helicopter above Silverwater Prison, the Sally port where the corrective services uh do the handover with the cops. I'm pretty sure you can't just jump in your hero and go flying over a fucking prison like that without getting permission from the authorities. Exactly. Yeah, and I mean I remember we used to blow shit up out the back of Holesworthy at the Dems range, and before you you went fire on with the charge, you had to check make contact with the fucking Sydney traffic control to make sure there wasn't a fucking you know Airbus flying over it in case I'm not saying that a piece of fucking shrapnel would take out an Airbus, but it was just the protocols. Of course, you can't just go flying helicopters around and and they did it to get the money shot of the big man with his handcuffs in front of him, being led like a fucking criminal into the fucking prison, and um, you know, and I mate, that's just putrid, man. You know, like look, if they if they if there was a couple of um AFP guys in suits as he made his way off the the concourse or you know, the the uh airbridge, and they just said, Oh, you know, get ARS, you know, we're we're from the OSI or whatever, mate. We we need you to come just follow us. Like, we we've got a female liaison officer here for the girls, for the kids and your missus. Um, but we need you to come with us. We've got some questions. Um, you know, you just let's do it out, let's do it out the back of out of public view, you know what I mean? They should have done it that way, and and the thing is they've they've done it like obviously, you know, I'm not putting my tinfoil hat on, but there's a lot of stuff going on in the world at the moment that Aussies are pissed off about, you know, fuel prices, um, cost of living, you know, etc. etc. Right. It's if they think that we don't realise that it's just a distraction, it's just political theatre, yeah. And two weeks out from Anzac Day, I know, and I'll be honest with you, man, like I think it backfired on them because 100% it did.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

The outrage that it is look at the support for Ben now. 100%. It's tenfold. A hundred tenfold, and then obviously, you know, that Braver and Betrayal was on Sunday. Yeah, free to wear on the channel. Very, very officer-oriented that uh documentary, but it also entails, you know, the life of SASRs, or more, more, more specific, specifically, and uh, you know, it's operator in Afghanistan. So yeah, that fell into line with Shout out to Horse, he's a fucking legendary cracking podcast when he came on. Yeah, yeah, no, he's a good one. But like you said, like it backfired on, it has backfired on him because now everyone is just like, you know what, fuck you. And what the boys did in Afghanistan is what should stay in Afghanistan, that plain and simple, we back him.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

It's it's mate, it's really it's quite it's quite grotesque when you think about it, man. And and like, you know, look, yep, RS is gonna get his day in court as he's as he's due, you know. If it does, if it ever does. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

I know. I know that's that's that's the question as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Social media echo chambers, I know we talked about it briefly before, you know, like you know, I like I like you know cruising around anonymously in these TikTok TikTok um they people hold these TikTok um lives where they, you know, have a have a panel of so people offering their and like just listening to some of the people in the out in Australian society, man, like you know, I know this is gonna go into a different topic, but you know, people who are just basically like you know, saying, Oh yeah, he needs to be thrown into a fucking chains in the bottom of the dungeons of Silverwater and all that, you know, like you know, just people who it it just goes to show you that out in our society, like we're very divided society at the moment, and you know, Anzac Day and the Anzacs, you know, it's been hijacked by these, you know, why should soldiers feel ashamed and want to send their medals into their politicians? You know, like that's that's a tragedy, man. Like it is, it is, you know, it's it's really quite, you know, and and the damage that it's done, and and therefore it lies on blokes like us, and we talked about it before, to what we're good at, you know, run distraction operations and like you know, these we're gonna run these little sideline operations to try and boost the morale, get the stories out, you know, not not openly like denigrate the government or anything. I'll leave that to Danger Dan podcast and what danger, you know, like that's not my bag. But if I can come on here and tell tell inspiring stories about other blokes, not about myself, but about other blokes, about service, about you know what it means to be a a serviceman and to serve your country, that it's not it's there's nothing wrong with wanting to be patriotic and to love your country. And there's nothing wrong with nationalism, you know, it's not um it's it's fine to be proud of your country, there's nothing wrong with that. And our society needs to be, you know, these young fellas coming up need to like listen to these podcasts. And I'm not telling everyone, you know, go and join the army, that's an individual choice. But there's nothing wrong if you do want to do that. No, exactly right, yeah. Yeah, if you want to become a copper, you know, whatever, yeah, whatever. Like, you know, go for it, mate. It's your life, you know. Once you turn 18, um, you know, go on to the days where you could get your mum to sign the fucking paperwork. But you know, like if you if you want to serve your country and and you want to, it's nothing wrong with that. You shouldn't feel ashamed by that.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

No, exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Yeah, it doesn't mean you're a bloody Nazi or a fucking white supremacist or a you know, like it there's nothing wrong with with uh wanting to serve your people.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the leftists, I don't know. Yeah, you know, I uh you know, you look at the police, you know, a lot of them in running moustaches lately. And then the left's come out now and gone, oh they're all they're all fucking. Yeah, they worship Hitler, yeah. What are you fucking? That goes back to the 70s. Like a mile man had a moustache for years. It's Starski and Hart.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

That's you know, like it's yeah, it's I mean it's it's it's just it's it's and that's the thing, mate. We talked about it before. It's like the left, they they play these like identity politics games and they lodge, they they lock on anything that, like you said, the moustache, or you know, if somebody has an Austral a sticker of an Australian flag on the back of their van or something, you know what I mean? Like, oh, he must be a bloody white supremacist, or you know, he's uh he's from the right or whatever. It's like chill out with that shit, man. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 42:38

Just live life, move on, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

You know, just and have a chat to someone, you know, like don't sit in these fucking echo chambers online and yeah, man.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

And it's also easy to commentate when you haven't been there.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

A hundred percent, man. You know, it's armchair warriors. How many of them been in a gunfight or had to drag their dead mate out of a fucking Yeah, man, and look, you know, I I I wouldn't wish that I wouldn't wish that on anyone, man. You know, like and I don't I don't think that, you know, because I've experienced those things that it makes me um some kind of like, you know, moral authority on Australian society or anything like that. But you know, man, like I, you know, I think that you know people should we live we live in such a great country here and we we yeah, we got problems anywhere. You travel around the world, anywhere you go in the world, there's problems, but like Australia really is a a a lucky country, you know, and um I really believe that, you know, for one, charity bel charity begins at home, you know, and and my whole opinion about you know foreign aid and all that sort of stuff, we need to look after the black fellas, mate. You know what I mean? Like, and and I and I'm I'm not I'm not talking about you know these sort of militant people that you know want to burn. I'm I'm saying like the indigenous communities of Australia, if we're gonna talk like we need to look after our own people in Australia like first, right? Um before giving$300 million to Afghanistan. 100%. Yeah, you know, a hundred percent. I mean, and or even spending three hundred and thirty million dollars investigating a uh uh couple of soldiers, decorated soldiers. Imagine what$330 million could have done to and I'll just use this example. I don't I'm I'm not uh an Aboriginal activist, I just want to make it plain and clear here. But I you know, I I was in Canberra on Saturday, I was hanging around with Kangaroo Jack down at the um protest down there, um, and I'm heartened to see that that bloke's starting to gain a bit of traction, and he's building up an alliance with the veteran community, and I like Sam, you know, Sam started getting the ball rolling with that, and that's good. But you know, if you look at what$330 million could have done, like a lot of Australian people that live in these cities and you know drive Toyota Priuses and drink soy lattes or whatever, you know, whatever the cliche, they don't even I don't think they've ever seen or stepped foot in or looked at it's the way some of these Aboriginal people live in these tenement camps out front. Yeah, man. It's like it's not pretty.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

No, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

I mean they might watch like a little snippet on the 730 report about you know the riot and the cops having to go in there, but they don't understand. Like that's and 330 million dollars, like yeah, you you could put like some kind of state-of-the-art water filtration system in up there and um you know, fix the plumbing or you know more police out there, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Whatever, you know, or more ambos, more fucking nurses, more schools, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

A hundred, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

Too busy building schools in fucking Afghanistan.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Yeah, yeah, man. I mean, unbelievable, mate. You know, it's it's just and I and we've got it, we've got like I understand we have commitments, you know, like with the UN charter and this, that, and the other.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

But do we really do it? Should we? Look at look at the United States, mate. Yeah, Donald Trump's like fuck the UN.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Yeah, I look, mate, I I my experience with the United Nations, having seen them work in East Timor, the corruption, even on the street levels in East Timor, you know, like the boys at Charlie Company Four area are who are listening to this who might know, you know, we one of our jobs at Ida Balleton was we used to run these checkpoints and we had to stop like illegal um black market bootlegging and such, you know, and it was it's not like you know, guys running whiskey or anything, it was all cigarettes, you know, cigarettes, currency, um, and petrol, you know, like um, you know, like there was obviously the petrol was controlled, but it was primarily for us, it was cigarettes, right? Just a quick story. Like, we for months we ran these SNAP VCPs and we confiscated fucking like hundreds and thousands of cartons of Marlboro lights and Gadangaram, those Indonesian clove cigarettes and all that, you know, because they weren't allowed to trade in that. So it got to the point at our base where we couldn't keep all this shit. So we had to ask the UN if we could keep it at one of their warehouses. So it all got loaded up. We catalogued it. ROC at the time said we want every carton of cigarettes has to be accounted for, right? It was accounted for, it was loaded up in the back of Unimogs, fucking six bees, you name it, and we took it to this place and we loaded it up and handed it over. Well, I think it was like a couple of months later, the Italian fucking UN delegate or whatever that was running the place had sold it all back to the bat the bootleggers because they did an audit on it and it was all gone. And and I mean, I that's just one story. But I I witnessed corruption with the UN in Iraq, I know, especially in the private contracting world. Yeah, 100% Iraq, Afghanistan. Um, and it's just like no wonder Trump's saying, fuck you, you know, like that's it, yeah, that's it. And the money we pump in a, you know, like we we need to we need to look after our own people, man.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

That's what we need to Stray First, yeah. That's what the you know, Sam Bamford and Big Jockey, all of them are you know 100%. But anyway, we've absolutely gone completely off track. But uh let's get back to quickly, obviously, you you know we spoke about your family history within your uh within the defence, and then obviously now your aspirations in joining defence. Yep. Now we're coming up to like this is 1997 period, and obviously move into that Choco world first.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Yeah, so um when I went into defence force recruiting in '97 in Aubrey, um, it's it's not the same building, but it it the building um that I went into had been there for a very long time. I went in there and I said, Look, um, yeah, I want to join the army. Um, and they were like, Okay, uh, what do you want to do? And I said, I I want to be a paratrooper. Well, fuck it. Yeah, now it's all good. I I wanted to jump out of planes with a, you know, with a um, you know, bayonet between my teeth. And I was like, I've watched too many.

SPEAKER_04 48:46

That's exactly what we did.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Yeah, the guns and Navarro and you know, like I'd watch all those. I just said I want to be a paratrooper. And um, and they were like, Okay, well look, um unfortunately at the moment, like we we just we don't have positions um with the regs, but if you come in through, I can't remember, it wasn't the it wasn't the ready reserve scheme, it was the it was I think it was called like the A res scheme or something. A res, yeah. Yeah, and so you you signed up, you went to Capuca, you then went to well, you trade, you went to Kapuka and then your Singo, and then you paraded at your reserve unit under that ECN.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

And oh so you went to Singo as well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

So back to back. So 1st of December 97, I marched in the I we I I did the oath down in Melbourne. Uh it was funny, you know, because I was from Aubrey, so I had to drive down to Melbourne, do the oath at Defence Plaza, get on the Cob and Code coach, drove back up to Aubrey. We stopped at a BP in North Aubrey and then, you know, for a snack, and then we kept going up to Wagga to Blamey Barracks, and then that was the first day, 1st of December 97. So I was there over Christmas at Kapuka. Kapuka. Yeah, Capuca, 13 Platoon Bravo.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

Yeah, and just quickly, just on Capuca, uh, you know, six, seven, eight week pig, whatever it was. How'd you find that that that mate?

SPEAKER_01 50:01

I you know, everyone asked about their first experience, like getting off the bus, and I've told this story before, you know, like we arrived, um it was it was summer when I was there because it was the start of December, so by the time we got there, it was still sunlight out there, but you know, it was that we'd been in the thing all day, we were fucked. Guys were still wearing their fucking suits and all the other shit. That anyway, these three MPs get on the bus as they do, just a shocker capture, you know, and they're like, Rodo, listen up, you know, if any of you little bastards have got any nunchucks, knives, fireworks, um, porno mags, you know, this like you surrender them now, and nothing further will be said. And everyone was just kind of going, whoa, you know, like what's going on here? And and nobody didn't. And they were like, okay, you know, um, everyone get off the bus, and um, and then we had our our actual platoon staff that were there to meet us. And um, you know, I think we from memory we formed up a gaggle and we were marched up to the um to the lines. Um the uh luggage was basically I think it was luggage was taken from us. I can't remember the exact details, but the first thing we did was we get the you remember they give you the scongy cams, yeah. Skingy cams, and you know, we're trying to find out a fucking pair that fit. It was just, yeah, whatever, man. Yeah, yeah. And it was just, and I was like, you know, I was just going, fuck, I'm really here now, and this is on, you know. And um, and then like obviously, you know, the the next couple of days, like going to the main queue store, getting your inoculations, and um, oh well, first of all, going up to the um was it the what was it? The what was the soldiers club up at Tapuka? I don't remember. They make you go up there and pay ten bucks and you get the little bag with all your brasso and your birthday and get your head, get your head shaved. Yeah, so we did that. I'd love to go back there one day, actually. Oh, I wouldn't. I got no fucking interest in going back to the book.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

I do actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

I do as well. Um, but yeah, and um, and then like yeah, just the sort of whirlwind. Um, I can't, I think I was there for eight weeks pretty much, um, including that we had a little bit of not stand down, but like over the Christmas New Year's period, it was like reduced activity, and like they they put on movies for us and up at the where you have all the lectures and um but yeah, and then you know, like the first uh we did the I think we when we came off our blue uh red tabs on the blue tabs, we did the high rope obstacle course, and that night we were allowed to get on the terps for the first time. Which I don't think never ends well. No, it wasn't a good idea. Someone pissed on someone's locker back in the lines and got in the shit, but yeah, but so there that was done, and then um on loaded onto the buses um and driven up single struggled with anything in Kapuga? Um man, look, not really. Like I I think the only thing I really struggled with was um I guess, you know, like I you know, I was I've I've always been a pretty sort of outspoken person, you know. Like if I've if I've you know thought that there was something that I wanted to say, like, you know, I'd say it, you know, and I guess just that first few weeks of like you know, learning the um you know the military discipline system and you know the concept of insubordination and even little things like you know, if you're in a lesson, like you don't just fucking blurt out a question, you know. I mean, like that's yeah, you get in the shit for that, you know, and that it like everyone, you know, like just adapting to that new environment.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

And I'm not gonna say being brainwashed or indoctrinated, but like you know, just like learning the fundamentals of being a soldier within an institution, a hundred percent, yeah, just adapting and and learning how to adapt to the environment and operate in there.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Um, but yeah, no, that was that was good, man. And like, you know, and then up to singo. Um, and I loved Singo, man, because for me such a good place, innit? It was, it was great, you know. Like I was in Bin Bar Platoon. Um I listened to your your potty with uh another good mate of mine, Rob Mugridge. Yeah, yeah, I love Robridge. He's a legend. Fucking top bloke, yeah. But um, yeah, I was in Bin Bar Platoon, and uh I was pretty lucky that my Secko, um, I won't say his full name, but the the Perth guys will laugh. My Secko was a bloke from Perth called Fauf. And um Fauf, you know, like he was a free fall guy and all that, and you know, he was he was a good, like, you know, I'm I'm only just 18, I'm an impressionable young guy, and he's this SAS, you know, um corporal that's gonna be my section commander for the next, you know, eight weeks or whatever, and he's gonna teach me how to be a fucking grunt, you know, and and I and I thought it was great, you know, and it was great, you know. We had um Terry O'Farrell was the OC of Depot Company. I don't know whether you know who that is. Terry O'Farrell's one of the phantoms of the jungle. So we had a yeah, we had an SAS um OC and um Dave McCanley, uh I'm sorry, um Dave Nary, who was unfortunately killed in that vehicle accident. Um he was he was there. Um he wasn't involved in my platoon, but he was there. Uh I think he was a might have been a platoon sergeant there, but I just distinctly remember him because he used to ride a Harley to work every and I love Harley's man. And he rode his Harley to work, and and and you know, the word got around, oh, he's a SAS sergeant, you know, and and uh, you know, Terry O'Neill Um Major O'Farrell, you know, he's he's one of the phantoms of the jungle from Vietnam. And you know, and Terry O'Farrell's still kicking now, man. He's over in the UAE. I think he's like he's like an honorary brigadier general or something in the UAE military. But um, so yeah, I had those people, man, that were like, you know, at Singo as part of my experience of becoming an infantry soldier. And um, yeah, man, it was just it was a looking back on it now, it was I mean, it's a fucking long time ago, bro. It's like nine, it's almost 30 years ago for me.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

Yeah, I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

28 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

Yeah, we we gotta look at that yes. Obviously, gone through singleton. Um you know, where you're going from there, obviously. You want to be a paratrooper? Where does this, how does this go with you?

SPEAKER_01 56:02

They said there's no sports in the in the regular army for you, so you're gonna have to go um like reserve infantry. And I think the the options for me were I can't remember that. Victor, was it it's not 4-3, it was a a Victorian infantry reserve unit down in Melbourne. Um I can't remember the name of it, but then there was also um two company, first commando regiment. And I didn't know about I didn't really know anything about the Choco commandos. I had no idea until uh an older bloke said to me, mate, uh, why don't you go down and and to the Chocks? And this was through my going through my recruitment process. So this was already ordained before I went to Chapergrancingo. So I I was going back down to Melbourne, or I was going down to Melbourne to parade at two company, where I was gonna attempt to do my Choco selection, um Rio cycle, eventually parachute. But what I wanted to do was go down there and get the ball rolling, but then transfer to the ARA. And I would have been happy to go to one, two, three. I my ambition was to just go, but I thought at that stage to go to two company at Williamstown, Fort Jellybrand, um, would have been a good way for me to get in there. So after I finished singing, I went down to Melbourne. I moved into a share house with a mate of mine I went to school with. He was working for uh his uncle um learning how to be a fucking earth movie, like he was learning how to drive excavators and front-end loaders and shit. And I got a job working at this place called Melbourne Acrylic Coatings in Morabin, basically fucking mixing up buckets of render to send out to site, doing architectural moulding, anything I could do just to earn a living while I was gonna start this journey with the the reserve commandos.

SPEAKER_03 57:53

Um the goal of always going regular.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

Well, that was my goal um until I started parading with the Chocos at Joe, well, with the with the guys, I'm not gonna say Chocos, that's derogatory because I was with the reserve commandos, and and I remember the very first time, and like to get to get on the books with them at first before I went to Kapuka, I had to go down there and do like a um an information day. I had to do like a basic sort of fitness test. I think it was just like a BFA, but I'dn't I hadn't joined the army yet, so it was like you know, we just want to suss you out and see if you've got a bit of cunt about you, you're not a dickhead or whatever. And yep, no worries, we'll take you on. Go to Kapuka, go to Singo. When you're done, come and parade with us, and then you will start your journey. So I remember after Singo, I I went and started parading with them, and I think the first thing we were going to start working on was like foreign weapons, they caught it back then, they called it foreign weapons. It wasn't called SF weapons, it was like, you know, they teach you how to use, and I think even back then they had like a couple of old grease guns and fucking, you know. I mean, that was the in and to go there for like three hours on a Tuesday night, and then you know, maybe two weekends a month or whatever. Look, it it can work for some guys. I'm not riding off the Chocos, man. I I think they have a capability, you know, that the guys that have other line of work and they they bring that cape, they bring to enhance the capability. But for me being 18 years of age, that wasn't that wasn't what I was interested in. It was just not gonna work out for me. I really was desperate to get into the regs. Unfortunately, I had a motorcycle accident. Uh I got hit by a drunk driver um actually just down the road from the uh Monash Medical Centre in Clayton. Yeah, so I was I I got home um from work, my housemate, he'd been having a few beers or whatever, and he goes, mate, do you mind just quickly turning down and going down to the survey, getting me a packet of smokes? I was like, Yeah, no worries. So I literally took my helmet off, he came out, put the helmet back on, rode down to the survey, grabbed the packet of smokes, and then as I was coming back, um this this bloody guy, I still remember his surname, Westbury, he um ran a red light and didn't even hit me hard, but he just cleaned me up and threw me off. I had a CBR255 blade, you know, smart purchase for an 18-year-old man and driving around the cities of Melbourne. Um, flung into a parked car and I and I had a compression fracture at T8 and T9. And uh I ended up in the Monash Medical Centre um overnight, and then they did the scans and I'm like, look, you've got a spinal injury. Um, you know, we're probably gonna have to keep you here until we figure out what the fuck's going on. And I discharged myself, um, rang up my oldies, and um dad was still living over in Qatar at the time, but mum, she came down and picked me up. My mum's background is nursing and pretty much went up to Aubrey and just sort of I rang up the the the guys at the Chocos at two company. I said, Look, I've been in a motorcycle accident, I've got a compressed T8 and T9. Um, I I can't see myself coming back for a while. Like, don't write me off. Um, and then ended up staying back in Aubrey for a while, just getting that back on track. And then I went, I got in contact with recruiting again, and I said, Look, I I'm good to go. I didn't disclose that I'd been in the accident, and back then the paper, it was still snail mail, so the Chocos hadn't told um Army headquarters or um schema or whatever about what was going on with me. They just basically said this cunt's not parading anymore, we're putting him on inactive reserve. So I went on to the inactive reserve. Then when I went back in the recruiting in Aubrey and said, Look, I I want to go back in, they were like, Yeah, no worries. Like, we're ramping up now because of T-Mor. Um, we've got we can get you a posting to four RAR commanders. Oh, sweet. Yeah, and I and I didn't even know what the fuck four RAR commander. I knew what one RAR, two R AR because of my uncle, um, and three RAR because I wanted to be a paratrooper. I didn't know that four AR was in Sydney, had recently been re-rolled as a commander. I had no idea. Which was just the one uh Bravo company Bravo company, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:01

So it was a infantry unit, but with one company that was specifically SS.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

Well it was at that stage it because two four had delinked, like two four RR had delinked, right? And so you had the guys that had gone down to four, um, raised the the capability. Um, you know, some good old school fucking dudes like, you know, like Rufus and Frank and um you know, I could rattle off their names, you know what I mean. Yeah, Nick, you know, yeah, resting rest his soul on Nick, you know, like it's um yeah, it was a shame what happened to Nick, you know. But um great podcast with him too. Yeah, he was a he was a mad bastard, man. I rode Harley's with him for a while. Yeah, he's a crazy cunt. But um anyway, yeah, um, but uh so like a lot of us guys, um I was like, yeah, fuck yeah. Look, I'll I'll go to fucking Fourier because they said they're getting ready to go to Timor. And I thought, well, fuck, you know, like and and also too, they were a commando unit, so you will eventually get your wings. So at this stage, I'm like, you know, they haven't asked anything about the spinal injury. I'm I'm come good. I I actually I actually did a course of juice while I was in Aubrey, like, you know, um trying to get myself back on track again. I didn't disclose that, obviously. And I'm um it's fucking 25 years ago or whatever. I'm I don't think they're gonna charge me now. Who knows? Anyway, yeah, yeah. Some AFP going to Ambers writing set writing down this, he's replaying that going, oh, steroids. 1998, let's get him. And um, anyway, so so yeah, and so next thing you know, man, like I and that's at that stage I was I'd got a job at fucking office works in Aubrey, and um yeah, and I was yeah, and all I was doing, man, I was working in the business machines department, like you know, um faxes and whatnot. Young cunts listen to that going, what's a fact? Anyway, facsimile machine. Um, so I was just stocking shelves and customers would come in and go, Oh yeah, that's a nice printer. Can you tell me a bit about it? And I was like, Yeah, no worries. So so then I get I get a signal from schema, and it's basically like, you know, marching uh uh posting order to four RR commando um with effect date. Oh I think it was like um January, it's like very early January, um, because there was still guys working real details, January 2000. Um, so I rock up and I turn up they didn't even know who the fuck I was or whatever. They've got the paperwork. It wasn't like these days with the emails and yeah, like you know, some guy sending you a zoom going, I just jump on Zoom with me, I'm gonna t about this fella that's coming. I just rock up with this yellow fucking envelope with his posting. They're like, who the fuck are you? And I'm like, Oh, I'm here to march in, and like, oh no worries. So they make a phone call, and next thing you know, um Frank Carey's coming up to get me. I don't know whether you've heard about Frank. Yeah, I I won't go and it's but he he was a pretty key player at the old school um, you know, before R commando, like one of the key members of Bravo, and at that stage Charlie had been raised, and Charlie Company was being raised to be one of the infantry companies that was gonna go over with the unit on optanager, right? So he'd been basically taken from being in Bravo company with a whole bunch of like other mature senior soldiers that were like raising this new SF capability to okay, mate, um, we're gonna get you as a platoon sergeant of an infantry platoon now of all these fucking fresh marches in from singo and fucking ex-Choco blokes that have backdoored the system or whatever. So I write he comes and gets me and he takes me down. Awesome dude, man. It's like, look, you know, you're gonna be in here, most of the blokes are on leave, and that's that was my journey. That was my first day as a member of the ARA. Um, and that that was my first um, so I was in the Chocos, but I wasn't in the Chocos for very long. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:56

Fuck so you didn't spend much time as a jock.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

It was it was a very yeah, man. Um, but I was just so fucking like grateful, knock on wood, that I was able to get back into the fold after having that motorcycle accident, man. Yeah, and they say, you know, like you gotta do what you gotta do, and did I do the right thing? Probably not, but I I got where I wanted to go. Um didn't hurt anyone, I didn't, you know, I did what I had to do to get that's a tip for young players out there.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:19

Don't tell them.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

No, no comment.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

No comment, don't tell them and do steroids. No, no, no, no. Tell them 30 years later. Uh right, so you're in uh four hour at this stage, and obviously yeah, Charlie Company, uh teamwork's already kicked off.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

Um with with with uh Interfet.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:41

Interfet stuff's kicked off, and then obviously you get your first deployment the following year in 2001.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

That's right, yeah, yeah. So that was great, man. And like the lead up, like that 12 months, like we did Operation Gold, which was uh security support for the Olympics.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:53

The Olympics, yeah. Yeah, Sydney Olympics, yeah, and that was great, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

And we had a lot of exposure to the to the boys from the West that had come over. Um, so you know, like we'd done A couple of activities where we played enemy for the tag. Um, and that was when it was just the tag, there was no tag east and tag west because 9-11 had nothing. So the boys from the tag had come over from Perth and they were shit, weren't they? Look, I'm not mate, they were my heroes, bro. Like, I'm not, you know, those those were the guys that I that was looked up to, man. It's SR were it at that stage. Yeah, and and ultimately, like, you know, the the the guys that I at at um at Fuera who the senior guys who who I actually ended up coming up under, like who taught me how to become an infantry soldier properly, like in because as you know, you don't learn shit until you're in the battalion, you know what I mean? And like, or and so some of those senior guys, like you know, your Franks and your Rufuses and all that, you know, they were the guys that I ended up idolising. And you know, they were like, you know, Rufus, you've heard his name spoken before, you know, Rufus ran the selection course that I did for commando selection course out at the stud farm at Singer. I don't know whether you've heard about the stud farm. Yeah, like when I was there, there was a massive bushfire going through there, the fucking RFS helicopter was flying around dropping water, and you know, like and so those guys were the ones that, but at the time at the Olympics, you know, like it was like, you know, the SAS tag, and for me, that was like they were the guys who I'd seen in books at the Iranian embassy siege, you know, the the men in black, you know, black pajamas with the gas masks and the shotguns, you know, and that that was and so when we got an opportunity to um support them in their training, you know, we we ended up up at um uh the old artillery, I think Rob talked about it, the old artillery school up in Middlehead. Um, and there was a section that was cordoned off and turned into a terrorist stronghold. And um we were the tea we were the terrorists and the hostages, and the tag basically came in and you know, like yeah, we did oppose training, although we we wasn't really a posed for us, we were just you know, fucking there, and but it was great, you know, like and it was good, you know. There were a couple of key guys that um were in charge of us during that period of time when we were working with the guys from Perth and and they were good guys, man. You know, and we'd ask them questions and they were very patient with us because most of us were only in our sort of late teens, early twenties, you know. And um, but so yeah, did that and then off to Timor. Um I was in uh fucking eight platoon Charlie Company. Um platoon commander was a I'll just say his initials, JB. He's a he ended up over the regiment, like the officer, the boys will know who I'm talking about. Um good set of sideburns on him back at the day. And um, yeah, he was uh he was my bice and Frank, the guy that I was telling you about, the big guy that came in, he was my platoon sergeant. Um Betty was in the platoon, um, a few other key individuals um that you know, names that you probably heard before. But yeah, like it was great, man. It was you know, like it was fucking unreal. And um, you know, we'd mix, we do like green hat patrols, blue hat patrols, so like the UN, you know, the high visibility street patrolling, and then the green hat patrols like Cam up, you know, New Zealand helicopter Huey would drop us up in the weeds and we go on patrol for a few days, and then we do other rudimentary shit, like you know, um we supported the election that took place while we were over there, so we did a lot of like, you know, um sort of they call it like peep uh dat like riot control, like we're on standby in case there were riots in Dili with the elections and all that shit. And then while I was over there, September 11 happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:38

I was just about to bring that up because I yeah, I've had obviously a few other guys proof sure on that rotation as well, where September 11 happens and changes the game, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

100%, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:49

Yeah, not that you knew because it kind of died off.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:52

And nah, it's look, I'll tell you, man, like it there was an I've said this story on another podcast. I remember when the um the planes had hit, or the first plane had hit, and it was on it was on a TV and a CP. It's one of those shitty old fucking like flat screen box pieces. Yeah, the big ones, yeah. But they had a feed going in there, so they had like CNN, uh um, you know, like uh I think uh BBC or whatever, and and it was just on constantly, right? And then and everyone's going in and out, going, shit, what the fuck's going on over in New York City, you know, like some fucking passenger plane's flown into a building, you know, like and then the second one, and and that's when everyone was like, Oi, come in and have a look at this, like you know, the because then the first one was getting ready to come down, and and I remember after the the second one went down, um, and look, you know, whatever your theory is on that, I don't want to get into that. But like, but I remember one of the senior guys who was there said, Boys, we're gonna be going to war over this. And, you know, at the time, I you know, I distinctly remember he said it, he was like one of the sergeants, you know, and he was and he and he's like, We're gonna be going to war over this. And uh a lot of us were kind of going, shit, you know, and I guess being an older bloke and like looking at it going, you know, this is like the the fucking World Trade Centre in New York City, you know, it's a obviously like a deliberate, coordinated attack against the financial hub of the West, and you know, like you know, and and there were already inclinations like you know, Bin Laden and and and you know, I mean I I'll be honest with you, back then I didn't even know who fucking UBL was.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:27

No, I did I didn't know that wasn't even the first attack against that building.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:31

Oh no, by Bin Laden in the basement in the night's yeah, or the or the USS Cole or the Nigerian Embassy, you know, like it was all and we didn't really we knew about like terrorism, the concept of terrorism. Not to the extent yeah, well I mean like you know, when you're a you're a young guy, you're a young baggy ass soldier, you know, like in Timor and you you you you know it's a different different era back then, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:54

We didn't have smartphones, we didn't have the freedom of personal laptops, you know, like a um You're not getting the news on your fucking on your iPhone. Yeah, I mean, and I wish the kids don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

Oh look, mate, I wish I wish I had that kind of technology at my disposal back then, you know what I mean? Like I I really like because you know, like you'll laugh. Like I had a world book encyclopedia collection. Yeah, yeah. You know, if I wanted to learn about something, like for instance, if I wanted to learn about Jerusalem or the Alexa Mox mosque in in Jerusalem or something, I'd go and find, you know, the fucking encyclopedia. Yeah, the Jem shouldn't say the J's, you know, but the the World Book Encyclopedia Juliet uh edition, and I'd type I'd look up Jerusalem and then I'd go through it and then I'd want to read if I wanted to read about that. Or whereas now you just get your phone and you just Google it, you know, fucking Chat GBT will tell you everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:48

Yeah, you know, like fucking back then he had the jerk off of Zoo magazine.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:54

Zoo or uh what was the other one? People and Picture. One of my mates, with Dave Parker, you know him. He used to he used to laugh. He'd go when the Maredies would buy picture magazine, and he's like, it's just truckies porn. It's just truckies porn, yeah. But yeah, no, it's um so yeah, that happened, and um, you know, we were a bit naive, the younger blokes, but um, and then sure enough, like about three weeks later, we get uh this sort of directive that comes out, it's like, you know, look, um John Howard and the government in their infinite wisdoms decided to raise a tag on the East Coast, East Coast, and because a lot of us had had the experience of training with the tag, not well prov providing uh ourselves as training props for them as hostages and terrorists. We'd worked with the tag, and so we knew we were like, oh, well, they're gonna raise another one over on the east coast, and they were looking for volunteers, and they were like, and back then, you know, they knew like shit. Look, we've got we've we've raised Bravo Company, and then we've essentially farmed all of these guys out to Charlie, Delta, and Alpha Company for this Taninger trip. But where are we gonna pull from to get these numbers? So anyone could apply, like you could say, look, I'm interested in doing it. So that they made you go back to Australia early. So it was like two weeks or three weeks before the trip was due to end. Um, and they had people from SFTC and obviously from um SASR and you know, as they call it, SASRAC, like senior SAS guys that were still in the reserves, that were helping overseas and training, that were basically they put together this kind of like mini sort of fucking, I wouldn't call it a selection. It was just like if you want to do this, um, we need to get this up and running. We know that not everyone's gonna be able to pass this CQB course because it's a fucking hard course. Um, so I think there was about a hundred of us that came back from Timor early, and they they put us through that. We had to do like some fucking navigation training and some agility training, some uh environmental exposure training and heights and stuff like that, subterranean stuff, and um just to see if blokes would you freak out if you had to like you know fast rope off the side of a building, would you uh uh abseil off a building? Um, could you handle crawling around in a tunnel in the dark with water running around you? All that sort of shit. And um from that group of guys, they selected the initial group of blokes that then went over to Swanborn and and then undertook the basic and advanced close-quarter battle course. And they were supplemented by guys from um the clearance divers, and those guys became the initial uh tag east. Now I I came back early, but look, mate, I was fucking young, wet behind the ears. I gave it a crack, and and they just said, look, no, look, you need to focus more on your commando, um, your commando training and and get your commando skill sets up, and then you can have a crack because tag east's here to stay now, you know what I mean? It's gonna be part of it. Just your soldiering in general, yeah. You're still one and two years in. Green as fuck, you know. But but they but they they said if you want to give it a crack, it's not up to us, it's up to the fellas back there. That and and they said, Look, good on you boys, but sorry, we went we need more senior people. Experience, yeah. Um, so yeah, and so I just I went back into to absorb back in the Charlie company, and that was at uh 2002 kicking off, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:16

So then yeah, um obviously SASR have now deployed to Afghanistan. Yes, they're on their first fucking rotations, yeah. Yes, yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:25

Is there any talk on the East Coast? There was, yeah. And and like there was, you know, there was information that was trickling back, and um, I think there were also, you probably know, you might remember there was a magazine called um Soldier of Fortune magazine.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:38

Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:39

Yeah, and um Soldier of Fortune magazine um would have like a it was like an international international special operations chapter or whatever where they'd have a brief summary of what you know um international forces were doing around the world and like you could read a little bit about, you know, like you know, the Australian special operations or special forces, SFTG, Australian Special Forces Task Group, uh, you know, involved in the um, you know, directing um bombing missions against the Torabora cave complex and you know and that sort of stuff. It wasn't like exhaustive information, but you knew that the SAS guys were over there running the ball up, you know. As far as we knew, they were over there fighting the war on terror, as Bush had coined it. Yeah, yeah. And I've got some of those magazines out there. I do, yeah, in that box I bought in, mate. I've got like the all these old mags and newspaper cuttings and that that I've kept, and yeah, yeah, starting my own museum one day.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:34

Yeah, and I've had a couple of the cats on that were on those roads, yeah, Mark Doreen, etc. And they spoke about it, and obviously, you know, their role was to go help find Osama bin Laden. 100%, yeah. Wild, mate.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:46

Yeah, it was crazy, man. And like, you know, they you know, and they got they sort of got thrown in the deep end, and but then I think you know, when the Yanks realised that what they what they could bring to the table, and and I mean when you think about what it would have been like, see, I don't know if if if you had to be as it is these days, like Scojo would have been a qualified JTAC to be able to like get up on a hill with a laser range find or like a designation device and like you know point it down into the valley and get some B1 or or B B2 to drop a fucking 2,000 pound bomb on a compound. Like they were doing some pretty cool shit, yeah. Um, and yeah, I mean we we heard a bit about it, and then obviously um the rumbling started that they were gonna go into Iraq.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:28

That's it. So obviously to that, yeah, 2003 February, March. Obviously, the world uh the war kicks off over there, you know, big bombing runs. Everyone's seen the footage, if not, yeah, definitely watch it on YouTube for the younger fellas because it was uh and obviously we had some uh Australian fighter pilots, Matt Hall for one of them. He's uh up here, lives up here in Newcastle from that Red Bull. Yeah, he was one of the guys dropping bombs all over.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:49

100%, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, you're right. Like I I just saw a thing about him on YouTube not long ago. You know, yeah, awesome man.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:56

I went for a fly with him one time. Oh, did you? I skewed everywhere. Did you like in that red fucking hell? Like I thought I couldn't do it, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:04

I could handle things, but mate, that's just uh Yeah, I'd I'd rather I'd rather go on a yeah, I'd rather go on an F-18 than one of those little aerobatic things, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:13

Like Especially me, I'm six foot fucking six foot five. I'm in the front of it like a pretzel in the front. It was terrible. But um, so obviously, yeah, 2002 period, uh, you know, 2002, 2004, we talk about 2003, the Iraq war kicks off. Cats obviously deploy over there, yeah, uh do a few things. I think uh obviously uh two Bravo Company, yeah. Yeah, Bravo, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:35

Yeah, Brabo Company 4 Aria I went over. And um, so there was, and again, my mate Bushy that I was telling you about before that you got it up in Cairns, you got to get it, he was on that trip. Betty was on it, Brett Wood. Um, trying to think of another few names that I can say. Like, I don't want to drop the boys' names, but the ones that you probably know.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:54

But um There's been a couple on the podcast that were on that trip as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:58

And like spoken about it, yeah. And they went over and and you know, I can only talk from what my mates who had been over there had told me when they came back and subsequently since. But you know, they went over there with a you know with an open mind and and they wanted to be part of the fight, you know. They you know, look, we they backed themselves, you know. Look at I think Berg's uh Berg's was very burgs. Um infamous photo out there, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the fucking Lawrence of Arabia. Yeah, no one knew who it was. Yeah, yeah, because a lot of guys for a while thought it was Rock. They thought it was Tony Rockoff for a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Another rest in rest in peace spot, but um, but yeah, um, so they went over there and they, you know, they they wanted to they wanted to crack give it a crack. And um, look, I'm not gonna get into the politics or whatever, but you know, unfortunately that uh I don't think that they were utilized as they wished they were going to be when they got there. So some of the boys got to do some pretty cool shit. Um, but I think a lot of the guys um probably defence force the Australian government. Well they came back and and um you know, some of like, you know, for instance, Betty, like Betty, he never sp you know, sort of spoke in a in a negative way about his experience over there. Like I think he he'd had an opportunity to sort of roll in the Baghdad, vehicle mounted, and do a bit of shit. And then there were other guys that were like, you know, they were uh, you know, escorting um, you know, detainees in the back of, you know, one mate of mine, I won't say his name, but he was telling me he got tasked to go on a job to help us the fucking agency guys escort these fucking prisoners that had been lifted off the battlefield. And I they were getting taken to some other airfield and obviously loaded into some aircraft with no tail numbers to fly to somewhere else, you know. That was you know, and and he was telling me, goes, man, it was pretty intense because he said these cunts that were in the fucking back of this plane were bad. You could tell they were bad fucking people, and you know, this CIA guy's just like you know, looking out the window and turning and spitting his chewing tobacco on their back because you know they're obviously not, you know, and they're they're getting taken somewhere for further questioning. Um fucking learjet somewhere, a numb, yeah, numb, and he was just kind of like going, fuck, you know, like this is full on, you know, and a lot of the boys, so they came back and you know, I heard a few of those stories, and like, you know, there and there was no prospect of there being another rotation.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:24

Um that was a teaser.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:25

That was a bit, yeah, and I and and look, you know, it it's just the way the cookie crumbles, and like to any of the young fellas that were listening to this in defence or girls, um you know, your mates might be going on a trip somewhere, and you might be thinking, Oh, this is a shit go, you know, I'm missing out on this, but before you know it, something else will come up. Um, you know, and you might think at the time that, you know, like you're the one that always misses out, but then you'll get the gravy one that everyone wants to go on, you know. Yeah, you know, and so the what goes around comes around, and at times it can seem unfair, but you know, it all seems to work out. But yeah, me and a few of the other boys, like we were kind of like, oh, well, we're not gonna get a chance to get over. Um, and then uh an an older mate of ours, it was another interesting cat. He'd he'd already gone over there and to Iraq as a contractor. Yeah, he was working for Olive Group. Um, and they were doing like you know, pipeline protection operations and things like that. And um Pete, I won't say his surname, but Pete, he came back from a rotation and he got in contact with us all and he's like, I booked out the fucking top floor of the Intercontinental Hotel in Sydney. I want you to all come all the fucking piss you can drink. Fucking we're gonna have a good time. And we were like, you know, fucking what the fuck? You know, we knew Pete was over there, you know, contracting and all we didn't really know like what he was up to. But anyway, we all went and met up with Pete at the Intercontinental, and he didn't have the presidential suite, he's just church, but he had a he had a nice suite, you know, and we all met up and we got to talk to him and he was telling us, he's like, Yeah, you know, it's and he was straight up, he's like, you know, yeah, it's fucking dangerous, and blokes get killed over there all the time. But like, you know, if you get in with a good team and you get on a gig gig, um, and I can help you out with some contacts, and and then you know, next thing you know, a couple of other boys went over, and so at that point in time, I'd sort of made the decision that you know, look, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna move on, you know what I mean? I'm gonna head over there and and give it a go. And um my part, my missus at the time, um, she just got her two-year UK working visa, and um she was I was discharging and she was heading over to move into a place in uh Edinburgh up in Scotland, and I said, Look, you go over and get set up, I'll do this discharge paper, we're gonna meet you over there. And then I had a job lined up with Olive. So my aim was to um uh get over there, spend a bit of time with her, and then get on my first contract rotation with Olive. And so I moved over to the UK, got out, moved over to the UK with her, did a bit of backpack of travelling, and then the olive gig fell through. Um, and then I was kind of like, oh fuck, something else will come up. And then I I got an email from a mate uh who said, Do you want to come and work with us? It's an Aussie company called OAM, Osprey Asset Management. Um, we're we're gonna be doing the uh security for the Iraqi elections. Um, and it's we got you know work lined up for at least the next three months. Do you want to jump on board? And I was like, Yeah, fuck yeah. And on that note, should we have a quick piss break?

SPEAKER_05 1:26:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:32

Quick break. Uh we're just talking about uh you finally getting a contract in baggage now as a contractor, mate. So let's let's kick that off and have a quick chat about uh the life as a contractor.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:44

Yeah, sure. So that was uh um with a company called OAM Osprey Asset Management that was the company was run by um former SAS uh officers, uh Bob Hunter, um uh Peter Towndroe, Mark Broom, um, and another fellow uh ex-S South African Rhodesian SAS guy. And and look, they were great guys to work for. Um it was a good the Iraqi independent electoral commission of Iraq. We supported their um, you know, the the the rolling out um setting up of uh ballots for the first uh election after Saddam was uh went down. Um and yeah, we basically had to like facilitate the um distribution, collection, transportation of uh bowl collection materials for the IECI. Um and that was like heavily overseen by you know, obviously um other parties um because you know it had to be seen to be fair and and transparent. And you probably remember the footage back then, the like you know, the Iraqi people walking out of the ballot box holding their fingers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because of the record keeping, like they just had yeah, the the the permanent ink that they'd have to put on their index finger. And and look, it was an exciting time, man. You know, like a lot of the Iraqi people. Um I got a lot of time for for you know the Iraqi people that I worked with and and met over there. Um like yeah, I mean, I'm not yeah, the I I work with some pretty pretty decent people, man, like interpreters and you know, some of these senior people from the IECI, like the the uh the Iraqi people that worked for the electoral commission at great risk to themselves. Um and they just they had pure hearts, they just wanted their people to be able to elect their own leader. Um, you know, and and a lot of those people were assassinated, you know, they were fucking blown up, they had their families murdered in retribution for for even be taking part in it. Iraq was a fucking eye-opener, man. I I know that's where you want to want to go with it, you know. Like it to to to go over there um as a young, you know, I was only just turned twenty-five, I think, when I got over there. And um, yeah, mate, like, you know, the first few days we were we were just sort of driving around Baghdad. you know like I remember we had to go to there's a South African security company called Eranus you you might have heard Eranus and so we had to drive we were living at a uh place called um uh Camp Bristol Camp Bristol at Biap um and we were sharing this camp with a company called Custer Battles I don't know why you'd name your your company after General Custer but like but yeah these custard battles guys you know they were doing like they were running shit out to Abu Ghraib and and you know I don't know whether they weren't transporting prisoners but they were running supplies out to Abu Ghraib and and you know they'd regularly come back with like guys killed you know they they they were rolling around in these big like f 350 Juillies they had um HF antennas with the stars and stripes flying off them you know calico jack pirate flags they were samurai sword loud and plow oh no no the that that was Morpheus the the the the black guy that was cruising around Baghdad in a trench coat with a samurai sword um fucking body dude or whatever but um so yeah that was pretty you know like yeah that was kind of like and and living out at Biap you know at the at the airport man like you know the indirect fire coming in and I remember the first day I got there I was looking around going what the fuck are those blimps up in the air you know like what are those blimps do and then I realized what they were for and and you know and um first time you hear like a you know uh counterfire artillery battery you know going off and you like is that incoming or out going you know like a it was just it was a pretty steep learning curve but yeah look you know and uh got on with it and and there's still like US Air Force bombing raids going on like this is the the heightened period of fucking Baghdad. Oh it got worse man like 04 04 and sort of 05 but then sort of towards the end of 05, 06 and it was just yeah it was just ramped up man and it was it was fucking crazy dude like I I you know people can come on here and talk about you know it was a country that was in the height of a civil war and an insurgency against uh you know an occupying military force and and look looking back on it now you know like um uh Paul Bremer like um from the you know coalition provisional authority I think one of the biggest mistakes they made was to get the the Iraqi army and basically disband them yeah yeah you know like change the change the head shed change the leadership yeah but the grunts on the ground you know like the the the baggy ass diggers and the truck drivers and the the the storemen and all that and I'll come on to the storemen later but like you know keep them on the books you know like um you know go say look you stay at home with your families protect your families we're figuring things out at the moment we're gonna pay you the equivalent of you know 250 US dollars a month or whatever enough so they can you know put petrol benzene in their car um feed their family you know fucking whatever like stay safe while they're figuring out what's they just disbanded and if they did that here in Australia I can guarantee cunts like you and I'd be running around fucking wreaking havoc 100% yeah like you know fuck you like you know like if you want us to if you want us to work with you sure we'll we'll we'll we'll stay in the army like you know we'll defend our country but if you're gonna just treat us like scum and and disband us and and make us starve and then yeah we're gonna kick off kick off and that's what happened and um become a lawless state oh mate it was crazy dude and you know I ended up in Tecrete I I ended up working for a security company a British security firm called Aegis Defence Services and I was working out of a a fob called uh Ford operating base Danger which was in Tecret which was Saddam Hussein's hometown and the Sunni Triangle and um for a lot of the younger people who might be listening to this um you know there's a when I S went in there a little bit later there was a camp there called Camp Spiker S P O S P I E C H E R and um that was the scene of probably one of the worst um IS atrocities that probably happened um I think we've all seen the videos yeah yeah crazy man and um you know I mean I remember we there was like an Abrams tank up on the hill next to the mess hall and I remember that when I first got there I'm like what what the fuck is that tank doing up there next to the chow hall? Well it's because the guys on the other side of the river would like wait until it was chow time and then they'd start lobbing mortars into the chow hall and um the the guys in the Abrams would you know fire for return fire and to keep the people in the mess safe and um unfortunately one time um the heap of Filipino um KBR workers in the kitchen got killed and yeah man it was just it was crazy dude and like we were driving around and like you know um we're driving around the area doing what we were doing delivering things and taking people to meetings and taking engineers to inspect construction projects and jumping on helicopters to escort people somewhere else like Hilo Protection it was just kind of like jack of all trade stuff and a lot going on and occasionally we'd drive from Tacrete up to Mosul and and that was pretty crazy. Even back then like you know oh five in Mosul was still a fucking dangerous time and um you know and obviously it it all turned to shit you know later on um but so I finished up with them and then I ended up which I'm you know was probably one some of the best time of my life looking back on it was when I started working for a an American firm called Triple Canopy which um and on a project called uh Project Milwaukee and with TC at the time a triple canopy they used to name their contracts or their projects as they call them after the hometown where the project manager came from so that was the significance of it. So you had like Project Detroit or Project Milwaukee or whatever and that's what you know the RPM um he came from Milwaukee and he this dude he's he's because you know the Yanks love their call signs yeah yeah yeah yeah so so at the time like when I when I was um uh in 4 RAR like I I I was known as Gobbo Robo because there's a few Robbo's there's like black robot skinny robot big robot fucking gobbo robot fucking gay robot fucking you know so I because I I love to have a yarn as you know you know and and so but then when I went and started working for the Yanks they started calling me like you know fast Eddie and because I was always on the go you know like it's yeah right comes from yeah well and then and then it was re-adopted when I re-enlisted back into the unit like and and and they they weren't because I'd I had been spent almost three years over in Iraq and I'd come back and I'd probably become a little bit more serious and I you know my mindset had changed a little bit and you know and and and so yeah and that sort of stuck but my project manager at Milwaukee was a guy called Prox Proximo the trainer of gladiators and he and he'd been like a detail lead in Afghanistan on the Karzai protection detail with Dynecorp. So they were the guys that were protecting Karzai when they took over from the SEALs and they were rolling around with like Humvees with general electric miniguns fucking like serious shit you know like they weren't fucking around you know and so he'd he'd pretty much been poached by Triple Canopy to come over to run this project in in a in Baghdad um and so our project was um we we were primarily tasked with supporting it wasn't a um WPPS contract which was a State Department Worldwide Personal Protective Services um so State Department bodyguard shit for you know people from the State Department this was a commercial contract but we were our primary client was Hally Burton and KBR so the the the leadership team in country for for Hally Burton so major defense contractor Dick Cheney you know whatever you want to fucking talk about you know but that's the gig and it was a commercial contract so therefore they weren't bound by um uh recruitment so we had uh ex-JTF2 guy there we had an ex-New Zealand SAS guy there whose nickname was Rue even though he was a Kiwi the Yanks and their nickname so yeah so we had a so we had like um a couple of ex Aussie SAS guys a couple of Aussie command three Aussie commandos a New Zealand SAS a JTF2 guy uh a couple of MarSock guys a couple of uh guys from 275 Ranger Battalion uh a couple of 375 couple of ex-cag guys and then all the country management were fucking ex-CAG who who then left CAG and gone and work for the fucking agency and then we're probably still working for the agency but we're running this contract yeah if you know what I mean. Yeah yeah yeah yeah and I can talk about that because it's you know people want to fucking go and so like you know my project manager was a guy called Tony uh my country manager was a guy called Tony Nicholson who's a bit of a legend in Delta Force um whose nickname was Doctor like Dr. Death um had another guy running around called Gunrunner like he's his first name was Clark um but he's his call sign in Delta was Gunrunner um and then the the the sort of the main manager for that whole company at the time was a guy called Lee Van Arsdale who you probably heard of and he was the commander of um task force dagger uh um in sorry in um task force ranger in um Mogadishu in Somalia he was he was a silver star recipient so yeah here's me another couple of Aussie commandos a couple of Aussie SAS guys and that and a Canadian and a Kiwi working with all these Yanks for these pretty serious fucking dudes and um mate it was a time of my life man like it was just really like you know it was like a coalition of fucking mad cunts you know like we just and we go out together and we do these tasks that we were given and and you know and and was driving around predominantly Baghdad like you know we'd go into Sata City we'd we'd you know we'd go at Al Mansur district like everywhere around Baghdad metropolitan area man like we would fucking be going and and sometimes we'd turn up in these areas man where like you know these poor you know US military they wouldn't even go out um minimum with a couple of tanks you know what I mean like and then we're rolling around in suburbans and light skins but obviously like you know the way things work you know like behind the scenes is arrangements are made like you know we our people are coming you know like yeah blah blah blah I don't want to go into too much detail but like yeah look it was a very interesting time man and um any close calls of view yeah man like we went up to a place called Hiller once El Hiller and um yeah and um look I I I I was a QRF that day and but the the team that went up there um they were involved in an incident and they basically had to like you know evac and torch a vehicle like a$250,000 fucking vehicle um and we had to pretty much spin up and get up there from from um where we were living in in the green zone Camp Olympia we had to pretty much get up there as quickly as we could and and back then that was like you know on MSR Tampa and all that man like you know you could fucking it was like what some of the footage that you see like you know you're sitting on you know 180 Ks an hour in a B6 armored vehicle and and people look look on it and go, that's fucking dangerous you know and and it was I think it's the least you worries well the risk you know you could talk about it in regards to like having a fucking tire blow out at that speed or you know or do you just roll up there at like a conservative speed and run the risk of getting fucking a linear ambush sprung on you or an ID. Yeah 100% yeah 100% EFP man that was the big one and um you know for any of the young people listening to this like the EFP was a um basically like a explosively formed projectile it was a a shape charge and they were coming over from Iran um so to talk about you know contemporary stuff like the Iranian proxy warfare that was going on you know that they were pumping in these EFPs and and they started off as some pretty sort of advanced um shape charges but then they basically were teaching the insurgency how to make them out of like really rudimentary material. Taking out Abrams yeah 100% like multi multi multi-array um multi-directional multi-array EFPs so it was basically like a a shotgun of EFPs on the side of the road and they'd hide them in like you know they'd they were quite clever like they'd make like sort of fake road barriers out of like paper mache and um plaster of Paris and paint it all up and shit and and yeah and and you know guys would get paranoid you know like they'd they'd be approaching something you know like a choke point and there might be something that looked suspicious. It's like you know what the fuck you know last time we were here that wasn't there you know like what is that you know and and I mean I remember one of my mates they were driving through a traffic circle in Mosul and they'd driven past this fucking fruit stand that was there fucking every day for months and it was like oh there's old mate but you know and he'd wave or whatever and you know a couple of times they'd actually stopped under and put out security and bought pomegranates from him and all this sort of thing and well this one day one of the guys like oh where's old mate next thing you know fucking boom like the whether he'd been murdered and they'd or they'd just kidnapped him and said we're gonna blow up your fruit stand today um and they'd put like a couple of daisy chained fucking 155 artillery shells in this fucking fruit stand uh dead donkeys on the side of the road with you know artillery shells um sewn into their fucking bellies you know and just crazy man like you wonder why some of these guys that you know they come back and they don't like sitting in traffic jams and yeah it was the wild west and and for yourself like you come close a few times to yeah I I did man and and I I but I I guess like I I was just sort of it was day in day out man you know and we talked about it a little bit earlier like that's where I met Troy Knight over in Iraq like uh you know he was over there working for Armour Group at the time um well he had been working for Armour Group and then he a very good friend of mine Atto um who's no longer with us rest in peace but like Atto and Troy worked for a an American company called Coachie's Consultancy and they'd met each other and flown over to El Paso in Texas to do the train up um because you had to go and do like a train up to work for this company and uh I'd been chatting with there used to be an old forum you might have heard of it called Socknet. Yeah so I was on Socknet and Troy was on Socknet and we used to DM each other and then we met up in the green zone for a coffee one day and and then we ran into each other when he re-enlisted you know like that and came to two commando you know those highly respected fucking JTAC you know but but yeah you know I wasn't I wasn't out running convoys like those boys were man like you know they were doing like you know slow moving fucking massive trucking convoys from like the western desert in the moving targets fucking crazy man like and you know another good mate of mine um I won't say his surname he's X3RAR first name Greg. Yeah uh XPTI type guy you know I'm talking about he'd he'd work for them and um you know mate some of the some of the stories that those guys fucking were involved in man like you know like running you know rolling fucking ambushes and and it's not like you could get on the fucking blow look get on the M bell M bite at a QRF and say hey look here here are our coordinators nah it's like you're fucking getting out of there and and unfortunately like you know they'd have to make calls like you know look we we have to abandon this truck you know otherwise we're gonna lose the lot and um you know a lot of those truck drivers were just you know fellas from Bangladesh or fucking Manila or wherever that would have you know like anyone they were over there they'd trying to make some money for their families or whatever and I mean no one's over there driving a soft skinned fucking truck around you know for the for the love of the game you know they and and a lot of those dudes they were just over there to drive trucks to to to run supplies and they fucking died you know and um so yeah man it was uh yeah so then uh that all wrapped up and um that's when I made the decision to re-enlist because I'd I'd been in touch with a few of the boys that had gone over with um so t yeah so this is you know this is the 2007 period as yeah and I already uh the the Australian Defence Force now started sending these SOTG trips 2007 the first uh regular army inventory side starts pushing in and this is where you decide fuck it yeah it's time to brand list yeah one two and um so t gs one two and three had been in in and out and um an I see and then two commando had also um had some guys over in East Timor um going after Renato I'm pretty sure um and I I'd I'd been tracking that but like a couple of mates who'd been over on I think it was rotations two um and one of them messaged me and he goes hey look man um there's talk that they're gonna spin us up again and we're gonna need fucking numbers you know and you know if you if you want to come back and like there's a couple of boys that are coming back if you want to come back now's the time man like let me know and I'll and I'll I'll put you onto the right people and I thought yeah look fuck you know like because initially when I went over to contracting it you know I I had my missus at the time who was based in Edinburgh and and I thought you know I'll do this for you know maybe a year or two and we wanted to buy a fucking uh Volkswagen combi and drive around Europe and and and then unfortunately the relationship fell apart and I was just kind of flying solo so I thought yeah fuck it so I um I quit working with uh TC got on a plane headed back um made a phone call and six weeks later I was back at Holzworthy fucking in uniform and they're like welcome back cunt now you gotta go and do a caft and I'm like what's a caft and it's like a commando annual fitness test and I hadn't done any like military like you know battle PT or anything for almost three years and it's like okay and uh so yeah and that was it man it was like back in like into Bravo company uh same platoon same team as Betty who'd re-enlisted um and mate that that was the beginning of the the next sort of five years you know how did you go back getting back into the military and uh you know slotting back into the the military life if you know what I mean because again because we know what contracting life is like it's work by day party by night party by night yeah barbecues parties and salsa niters especially with the Americans it's all that yeah salsa night at the Liberty pool on Wednesday night um yeah man look uh you know I came back I I um went back to Aubrey to mum and dad's place for a few weeks and just um remember getting an old pack out of the fucking shed out of a trunk and like filling it up with bricks and that and going oh I better go for a bit of a stomp and yeah and I was just kind of like well shit you know this is probably going to be a bit painful but I'll I'll crack on you know I mean I was still only um oh shit 27 um still young you know like this is 20 years ago now you know and I and the body bounces back a lot quicker you know as you know um and so yeah man look it was good you know and I I was the day I went back the day I marched in I I drove into the fucking um I drove into the car park went into the guard room and two very good mates of mine were on guard duty that day and um uh one of them uh who was the the the duty sergeant and the other one who's a duty NCO as soon as I walked in I'm like hey what's going on Cunst and they're like what are you doing here and I'm like oh I'm back so they're like oh no shit where are you going? I said look I don't know I've got to go and and I think I got a feeling the platoon sergeant might have made a few phone calls because I'll get up there and and they're like oh yeah no worries look you're gonna be going to Bravo company um uh the OC um who's now the current sock oste Garth Gould he was the OC at the time now he's the current now he's sockost yeah I did my I did my Rio with him you know like and um good bloke yeah yeah top bloke man yeah really good guy man like um you know and I I can say that because I've known him since he was a fucking captain and you know like and you know look at everyone who gets the staff officer level man like they they they they do like they have to rub shoulders with politicians they have to you know brief the prime of course so of course they're gonna have to they can't be the the you know the O on selection that's fucking you know yeah they're gonna play the game up there man and that's but he's got the background yeah that's that's that's his role and his journey and and and mate you know he's can't be a shooter forever. Nah man and like he doesn't profess to be you know and like and he you know and I I've seen him a couple of times you know not recently but like and you know he's always you know how you going Eddie you know like you everything going good for you mate you know is it yeah you know and even times when I've I've I've in the which we're going to talk about later where I I have come on hard times in my life you know and and not really manage things properly from my level and I've known that you know I've had I have in the reached out to people like that and they've always been nothing but forthcoming and helpful with trying to help me get my life um recalibrated and fucking back on track man you know and it's and I'm very grateful for that um but but yeah back to the point so yeah I roll in there bravo end up in a team with fucking Betty um another crazy uh puppy New Guinea mate Of mine from the back in the day, uh, I won't say his name, but he he runs a news agency in Sydney now. He's does he? He's married to a lovely Vietnamese lady, and and you know, he he as he says, you know, like he he sells uh lottery tickets and newspapers, and he's yeah, he's happy in his life, mate. You know what I mean? He's that's where he ended up. But but he'd got out and done a bit of he'd come on the OAM gig and then yeah, and then he'd gone back because he was starting a family and and and now you know he's living in Western Sydney. And but yeah, man, there was a few of us, like we were like a retread team, you know, and um and it was great, you know. Like the team leader, he'd got out, um, and he'd um he's still in, so I won't say his name, but like he'd got out to go and help his dad run his farm down in South Australia, so he'd re-enlisted as well. Um, but he hadn't been out contracting, he'd been out farming. So we had, you know, the TL, the two IC, and the two senior diggers were fucking all retreats. And then we had two young fellas that had just done their Rio that had come into the into the team, and so that was our team. Um, and um in Quebec Platoon. Um and mate, yeah, it was great. You know, we had it, we did the spin-up. Um, everyone had to do advanced close quarter battle course because that's when they changed the sort of pay trade model. Um, and so there were guys in Bravo Company at the time who had come from Tag East and Um Charlie Company, and they were restructuring the unit, and they were like, all right, we need to get every single operator in this unit shooter um uh advanced CQB qualified, regardless as if they've gone they've gone on the tag or they're planning to go on the tag. Everyone will be uh every 079 shooter will be advanced CQB qualified. So a lot of us had done basic CQB and then what they called the commando urban operations course. So you did basic, um, which as you know with CQB, it's like you know, two-man, two-man entry drills leading into um leading into four-man but basic, and then you do your urban operations outside, um, but then you didn't progress to four-man, multi-team, multi-level, and then advanced CQB. And so before we went on that rotation five, SATG rotation five, everyone in Bravo Company who wasn't already advanced CQB qualified had to go and do the fucking advanced CQB course. And that was great, man. I mean, like, and a lot of the guys who would this the instructors and and doing their SI courses were the guys in the company who'd just come off the tag. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it was good. And Nick Hill um was the SI of that course. He wasn't the he wasn't the CSM of the company, he but he was the SI of that course, and he was on the tag at the time. And and as you know with Nick, man, he was like all about like preferring you're gonna fucking cunt stunt, just gonna get the fucking tick in the box, like you're gonna fucking pass this course because you have to, and also because you know, we want you to go downrange and come back, you know, because you're gonna be fucking doing some serious work over there, and so yeah, that was good, man. And um, yeah, we went over there and um yeah, cracked on.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:11

So this is your first trip to Afghanistan, and just quickly, obviously, you spoke about you know a couple of you guys working in Iraq, so yeah, you've got that exposure to you know, I guess the the broader aspect of war fighting in a way, yeah, yeah, you know, and obviously close danger to yourself. Yeah, did that did that play a bit of a hand in you know the first you know couple of jobs, I guess, getting out of it?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:31

It did it did like for me, it was kind of like because I'd come into Bravo Company and Bravo Company it had a core group of guys who I'm pretty sure they'd been over on rotation two with Bravo. Um, so there were quite a few of the guys that were in there who'd been already been to the GAN and and they'd been you know rolling around in the SRVs or whatever. Um, but um, and then you had another the senior guys that had come down from the tag, and then you had a whole heap of like retreads and Rio, so it was a bit of a mixed bag. Um, I think a lot of the guys, the younger guys or the guys who who'd been, bro, probably thought that like blokes like me coming in or whatever, like, you know, who are these fucking crazy fucking cunts talking about, you know, hudges that they'd never heard the term haji before. They used to calling them jundis, yeah, jundy, yeah. You know, that they didn't know what a you know, fucking would refer to like a militant, like you know, a hajji, you know, being done his pilgrim pilgrim into Mecca and um, you know, he was there for jihad, you know, like that. And and they kind of thought that we had a bit of a I think militant mindset. Um, but yeah, I mean I make no bones about it, man. Like, you know, I'd seen as you had, I've seen some pretty hor horrif horrifying shit over in Iraq. Um, and yeah, uh Afghanistan's not Iraq, but like Afghanistan, there was a lot of like you know, heinous shit going on over there, you know. And um, so yeah, I mean, like I I went over there with the mindset that like, you know, yeah, we were conducting combat operations. It's not we're not doing like you know, um private military oper military contracts. It's not defensive operations, yeah. It's not defensive operations. We're not like you're going on the offensive to kill. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And um, yeah, look, I took it seriously, man. You know, Betty took it seriously. Um, you know, the other other couple of fellas, the other couple of retreads that were in the team, they took it seriously. They hadn't been before, you know, they they hadn't been on rotation two or anything, but they knew they were like, we're going over to Afghanistan, it's fucking it's it's it's fucking serious over there, you know. So um, yeah, we did the MRE, uh, infamous MRE down at Womara. I don't know whether you heard about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not allowed down there anymore. Yeah. JJ Kale started, had a little interaction with the mayor of Womara. I won't say any more than that. But um, yeah, so we did our MRE and then yeah, we were we're we were over there, and um, I think you know, the boys Rob might have mentioned like we did the nursery patrol and I saw the same rotation as Rob. Yeah, Rob rotation five. He was with Recon, I'm pretty sure the Recon boys and um Shane's legs Garth shaving his legs and fucking wearing bike shorts under his can. Um but yeah, ironically, like yeah, like the OC was got shot in the ass on the patrol. Yeah. The million dollar wound. I didn't see any of that money.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:31

Yeah. And how long was that rotation, that first rotation? Um that's rotation three, is it? Yeah, no, rotation five.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:38

Yeah, SACG rotation five. So I we left. I came home just before so Luke was killed on the 23rd of November, and then I'm pretty sure I came home like the second week of December, but there was a group of guys that stayed for the winter drawdown period. Um, but a lot of us came home. So I I think we went over there in May or June. I I'm sorry, I don't have the exact dates. Yeah, right, yeah. Yeah, but it was it was around then ish. Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't like an eight-month trip. It was for the guys that stayed for the winter drawdown, it wasn't for me, it wasn't. Yeah, I I came back um and I received my um IPO like in um internal posting order to the tag, like to to to go to Charlie Company. Um, so yeah, like um, so I came back and I had Christmas and a few weeks at oh just to decompress, I guess you could call it that. Um and uh then went back to work in I think this was like early February or whatever, and and straight onto the tag.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:40

Yeah, I just want to break down this first SOTG trip, you know, run me through, I guess, the first time again, you're moving into the offensive operations of hunting and killing the Taliban.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:51

Yeah, 100%. So look, it wasn't man like uh for me personally, it wasn't difficult to adopt a um like a combat mindset because working with those guys at Triple Canopy, like for instance, there was a guy on the contract who was part of the you know that movie 12 Strong with he was one of the ODA guys that was on a horseback, mate. I won't say his son, but his first name's Pete. Anyone listening to this will know who he is, lovely guy, man. Like, you know, he he should have been a game show host, super friendly, jovial guy, but he was one of those ODA guys. So that there were some pretty fucking serious people that will I was working with on it. And whenever we get ready to go outside the wire, it was like, you know, boys, it's on, you know what I mean? Like we're we're going out here now. And there'd been some horrific, as you know, like you know, like um contractors that had been overrun, you know, the the incident that happened down in Fallujah that kicked off, you know, with with the Blackwater guys, um, other things, you know, like it stuff that the general public probably hasn't heard about and probably wouldn't want to hear about. Like, you know, like some poor French guy that actually had to call in a fucking airstrike on his own position. Yeah. Yeah, like out in the western desert. You know, and people are thinking, oh, these security contractors are just cowboys, you know, like you know, a guy that's willing to to call a fucking airstrike on his own position so that the military equipment won't fall in the wrong hands of the enemy. To me, that guy's a hero. You know what I mean? Like, you know, what he he he he he he basically blew himself up and all the fucking stuff he was transporting so it wouldn't fall into the wrong hands. Now, anyway, but yeah, back to the point. Um, look, it wasn't hard for me to to adopt a combat mindset because I'd already been in one, you know, I'd already m had one. And um, yeah, and like, you know, we we started off and look, you know, I I Afghanistan was very interesting to me because and I've said it on another podcast, you're in this area that's just got this like history of warfare, and you know, they call it the graveyard of civilizations, and there's you know, these amazing, you know, history there, and armies have come and tried to conquer and take over the place, and you know, Alexander the Great, you know, and it's just an incredible place, you know, and but it the terrain, it's it's quite can be quite beautiful at times over there, like the mountains and everything. But when you look at the way that some of the people are living over there, man, it's just like fucking haven't evolved since the fucking iron age, man. It's biblical, yeah, it is, bro. Like, you know, these like what Rob was talking about, these fucking mud compound fucking walls that have been standing there for fucking centuries. Um, people living in these houses with like, you know, fucking, you know, if you want to get some water to make your chai or to, you know, to cook your dinner for your family, you've got to go walk a kilometre down to the stream and you know, that's just harsh, harsh environment, man, hard people. Um, but you had to take your hat off to the people, man, because you know, like at the end of the day, they didn't give a fuck a lot of them about who Hamid Karzai was or the fucking transition government, man. No, they just wanted to live. Yeah, it it's tribal feudalism. Um, you know, uh I live in this valley, my crops and my livestock are here. Been here for thousands of years. Yeah, yeah. My my my daughter's marrying fucking, you know, into the next valley, and and and we're gonna share an alliance because of that, and and we'll you know, we'll we'll share in in trade and you know, and and and and fuck that, we don't care about anything else. And if any outsiders come in here, we'll deal with them. And you know, I mean, and that's that's the way they live. And you can't, you know, you can't get a Western democratic government model and superimpose it over to a place like that. That's it, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:41

Yeah, I think that was a lot of the lot of the fucking issues. We went over there and we thought, fuck, we're gonna help them and build schools. They don't want fucking schools, they don't want this, they don't want that. They just want, you know, just give them wells. But let's build some wells and yeah, you know, just simple stuff that they need because they're not gonna fucking buy them living like this for 20 well fuck, probably not 20,000 years, but you know, like fuck two, three thousand years. They've been living like that. Yeah, like they're not gonna change and fucking adopt our Western fucking way of living.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:09

A hundred percent, man. I mean, look, they the things things from it that they could take to enhance their life. Exactly right. That's what I mean, yeah. Um uh they're very injun in you know, um ingenious, like you know, they're very adaptable people, you know what I mean. Like, and they you know, you see the way that they can repair fucking uh Toyota high luxes and shit like that. Yeah, yeah. Mechanical aptitude. Yeah, 100%, you know, like and that and so you know, you know, give them a tractor for their value. Exactly right. Like give them a fucking farming equipment. Yeah, John Deere, like not the state-of-the-art shit that you know, but like a you know, old school John Deere that they can do basic mechanics on and and um you know, or a fucking wheat threshing um machinery or so, just basic shit that they can fucking subsistence farming or whatever they want to do, like they don't you know, and yeah, build a well or whatever, but like look, man, you know, it's I don't regret anything that we did over there. No, definitely not. No, like you know, we we had a mission bad people over there as well. Yeah, 100%. We had a mission, and look, you know, I think you know, when you do see the way in which women uh are treated women and children are treated over there, um and uh how it's gone full circle now, you know, like with the laws that they've you know, like we you know, women's fucking bad now. It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:26

It's it's just it's just at least we gave them the opportunity to go to school if they wanted, or at least women could walk around and fucking interact and talk with each other.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:34

100%.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:35

They can't even talk to each other now. Yeah, 100%. 100%. That's fucking we're the feminists now.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:41

Yeah, I know well exactly, and like this is the thing, like a lot of these people that you know, like they're very outspoken on you know, social media platforms or you know, uh university lecture halls or whatever you want to talk about, you know, um the steps of town hall talking about interfadas and whatever, but um, yeah, like they these people have never been over and and seen for themselves what it's like over there, you know, and and you know they might have seen a documentary or you know, like read a report or something, but you go over there and you live in that environment for quite a period of time and like you sort of you get become attuned to that environment and and you see you know some of the stuff that goes on over there, man. I mean, like, you know, I I don't want to go into too much detail, but like, you know, we could I don't want to talk about butcher barts here and all that stuff, but like um, but even just like the animals, man, you know, I mean, like, I love fucking animals, bro. Like, I you know, um, pets like dogs, you know, like the working dogs, but like I love dogs. I think you know, a kid having a pet dog is the best thing you can do for their development, you know what I mean. And obviously over there culturally, like dogs are just you know filth, you know, and and that's whatever. But just to see, like, I remember going into these compounds, we go in and like do these operations, we'd go into the compound, and there'd be some poor fucking camel um tied up in the corner of this filthy fucking compound, like you know, with shit and piss and um mud everywhere. Um, and they they tie up the front leg. I don't know whether you've ever seen that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they tie up the front leg so it can't escape. Yeah and and instead of like, you know, maybe just you know, look by a fucking 20-meter length of chain or something, and like, you know, but no, we're gonna like, you know, maim this poor animal by like tying it up in this uncomfortable position so it can't move, it can't, you know, piss properly, or you know, and it's just so cruel, man. And like I used to, me and the boys, you and we'd go into these compounds and there'd be these animals tied up like this, and I'd just pull out my fucking spider car and fucking cut their tethers, man. You know, it's just cruel. Like, you know, how can you fucking like you know, you're relying on this animal to help you exist, you know, to help with your farming, or it's providing you milk, or you know, and you're just treating this fucking poor animal like it's a fucking commodity, like some kind of disposable commodity. Exactly, man.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:06

I saw a you know, we hit we had this, you know, there was this myth when before we went there, the the manimal anyway was this retarded down syndrome. You know, down syndrome or whatever it had, you know, this poor kid had. Yeah, and uh obviously over there was considered to be the devil because it was possessed, and yeah, but the kid was chained up outside. Like we found it eventually, and like mate, I still can see the image of this poor fucking naked fucking 15, 14-year-old boy, yeah, just chained up and just outside, like living like a dog. I'm like, holy shit. And I mean, and then and this is the real world what they're in.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:42

100%, man. You know, like people with intellectual disabilities, and because obviously culturally, like there's you know, interfa intercousin marriage and all that, and then and and if you even mention that these days, people call you a racist or a bigot, or you know, like you know, you're Islamophobic and all that, and it's like but it's the facts, look at the statistics. I know look at the look at the UAE, for example, like the percentages of people with like congenital birth defects as a result of inbreeding, yeah. And and seeing that kind of stuff in Afghanistan and and some of it in Iraq too, like the way that people with intellectual disabilities, and I mean, uh you might have seen it when you're in Kabul. Like the I remember there was this fucking poor guy, and he used to get around on a fucking um mechanics, uh, you know, those little mechanics trolleys that you lie on to get under your fucking car. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Little piece of wood with four wheels on each uh wheel on each corner. This guy cruising around Kabul and he's got no legs, he's got no hands. So he I mean he might have been a bomb maker, I don't know, but like he's cruising around and he's in filthy rags, he's he's pushing himself through the streets of Kabul like begging. How many hours was this? Uh 2012, 2000, yeah, 2011, 2012.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:55

Pretty sure he was still kicking around in 16, 17, or pretty sure I saw it.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:59

But I look at it and I think, you know, like, you know, where's your compassion? Like, you know, he's your fellow fucking person. Yeah. Um, and he and he he's he's reduced to like begging anyone who'll give you, and people wouldn't even look at him, you know, and a lot of the time it's the fucking was the Westerners, the contractors that had give him a few fucking dinar or you know, like some US dollars. Yeah, or or I'd sometimes just give him like a tube of Pringles and a fucking bottle of water. Yeah, you know, because it's like, oh look, mate, you know, like I've not that I'm a tight ass, but it's like you know, I'll here I'll give you some food and drink, you know, like because you know, a lot of them would fucking take drugs, you know, yeah, wouldn't surprise me either. But um, but just yeah, like the the the um dis disdain for like fucking human life, man. Oh 100%, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:48

I mean, yeah, we've terrible, fuck well, all the lefty's gonna come at me for saying retard.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:53

No, well, this is the thing.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:56

I was about to say spastic.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:57

Oh, yeah, well, you can fucking, I'm not offended by that, man. And anyone who's listening to this fucking need to harden the fuck up because I've been called spastic many times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially in the army. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:07

Fucking spastic.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:08

What are you doing? Yeah, you fuck up a weapons drill, you clip on the back of your head and fucking moron. You can't call the guy a fucking shit cunt anymore on the range. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, oh, look, mate, I'm gonna have to counsel you on that one. Back in my day, it's like you're a fucking cockhead, mate.

SPEAKER_04 2:10:29

Fucking retard.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:31

Mate, you know, exactly right. You know, Afghan, it's a different fucking scenario. You know, we can go completely complete uh political about it and fucking say what's good, what's bad, what's good. But anyway, back to your I guess your life as a soldier at in Afghanistan, moving into offensive operations, you know, first time getting into gunfights and seeing trauma and yeah, at the end of the day, pulling the trigger.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:52

Yeah, look, it's you know, again, man, to say revert back to like the training kicks in, and you know, yeah, there were boys on that trip that had been on previous rotations, there were boys that had been uh in Iraq. Um, and yeah, look, man, it was you know, we did our nursery patrol, and yeah, it was a it was a bit of a climatic end to that one, but we went back and reconfigured, and then we just started a sort of continuous campaign of um you know vehicle mobility operations around the around the AO, like you know, driving, you know, driving all day, walking all night, you know, hitting, you know, these fucking designated targets. Um and yeah, like, you know, the the whole um code word, you know, dry hole, you know, a lot of dry holes, man. Like, you know, we'd we'd we were always um, you know, we'd receive the target packages and the information, and we'd we'd, you know, we'd go and we'd do our job. Sometimes we'd find stuff there, you know, like um, you know, stuff that could be actionable intelligence that could, you know, give it to the ink guys and spin up further work from that. Um, but yeah, like for that trip, man, it wasn't really like you know, that was the the one that for me the that that last um major uh mission that we went on was the one that Luke was killed. And that was yeah, that was yeah, that was a pretty um serious fucking we'll talk about that now, mate.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:12

But just quickly, you know, I think you said a couple of key words in there that I want to emphasize. Yeah, just emphasize, you know, designated targets, you know, targeted locations. So just just for the listener out there, and you know, I know we've got a lot of civilian listeners, yeah. You're not just kicking over random fucking doors, random houses, you're hitting locations that are targeted or you know, added to a list, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:36

Yeah, so there's they they had what's called a Japel, like joint priority engagement list, which was basically a list of um who's who in the zoo, um, you know, whether they were designated as like a uh HVT or an MVT, medium value target, high value target, priority targets, what whatever. You know, it's a list of bad guys, and um that information was um obviously like shared. You know, by and with coalition partners, and the way in which they gather the information. Like Skojo probably touched on a lot of that when he was talking. But yeah, like so they build up these, they build up this, you know, obviously int picture and they build up these basically target packages, and some of them historical targets. So I think he mentioned that you know he'd hit a couple where they'd been there a year beforehand. And so yeah, like we'd we'd been to play, we'd go to places where the the boys, whether it was the boys from Perth, might have hit it like six months ago, or you know, um another um unit, like another you know, ODA unit might have rolled in there or whatever, and we'd go in there and on the on the fucking chance that we might catch them unawares, you know what I mean. Like a lot of the time they'd use like bed down, like I wouldn't call them like trap houses, but like, you know, the yeah, like you know, they'd have their safe houses and you know, like in the neighborhoods kind of thing, you know, they'd bed safe bed down locations and um spots that they know they could go and you know, um dig a mobile phone out from under the well and send a text message and then bury it again, and the kind of tradecraft and shit that they were up to, like you know, and we were always kind of playing like people say whack-a-mole, that game, like you know, the mole pops up and you try and hit it, you know, and it was just you know, like, yeah, and that was the game, you know what I mean. That's what we were involved in. It was like, you know, sort of like you know, fucking you know, constantly fucking after these guys and you know, try and get the drop on them.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:33

And what I'm trying to paint here, let's just say there's uh hunt like uh for example, uh for the listener out there, you know, these compounds are called koalas. Yeah, yeah, let's just say there's a hundred koalas in a in a in a area of operations, you're not going to every single fucking koala, you're just going to the designated and this is what I'm just again just trying to paint that picture. So they're more for the you know, the obviously the BRS and the Schalsey thing, you know. Oh, okay, yeah. You know, yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna do that. Just in general, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:58

Yeah, okay, yeah. So yeah, exactly right. Like, so it's not as though, you know, we'd just be sitting around in the middle of the fucking dash or the desert at night, and the the boss would pull his fucking tough book out and and go, all right, let's just go and fucking hit um uh compound fucking mic 0124 or whatever. It's like no no no. Like we are receiving specific fucking information that somebody in that fucking compound has been um uh pinged, whether it's by fucking SIG in or you know, human or whatever, that they're either in that location or they're gonna be in that location. And that person has been implicated or involved in fucking hostilities against coalition forces, whether or not their fingerprints were found on the fucking componentry of an IED that killed a fucking British patrol in Helmand, whether or not they were spotted fucking um attending a shore in Pakistan during the winter drawdown period. So it was all actionable intelligent. Like we we were going after specific fucking people. Um and and that's and back then uh the majority of our work was vehicle vehicle mounted fucking operations or vehicle mobility operations as the cats call it. We didn't have the asset, we didn't have the heroes, like we just and the IED threat wasn't as high, so it was just a repetitive like we drive to a fucking AO, like so all day you're fucking driving through the fucking area, like you know, it's hot, it's dusty, there's fucking, you know, there's a threat of ambush, there's a threat, still a threat of IEDs, but not as high as it became. So you drive all day, you know, the fucking vehicles were constantly breaking down, you know, blokes fucking, you know, getting underneath and changing fucking gearboxes on fucking Land Rovers in the middle of the desert, like with no mechanics pit to work in or fucking hoists or anything. Like it was hard fucking yakker, but uh flat tyres, occasionally vehicles would roll over, you know, and we'd go on these fucking like you know, wacky race of fucking journeys around the countryside, and then we'd pull up, we'd set up what's called a VDO, like vehicle drop-off location or vehicle harbour. The generally the mortars guys would fucking set up their base plates. Um, and you know, if we were operating within the planning range, which was generally about five kilometres, so if we got in the shit, we could call in fucking our own organic fucking mortar fire support. Um if not, they might walk along with so let's say we had a 10k infill, they might fucking travel a little bit further with us so they could then set up so that we could rely on them if we needed to. So a lot of planning went into it. There wasn't just sort of like, you know, we're on the road to nowhere, like just cruising around, fucking hitting what we want. It was like controlled, targeted fucking designated, yeah, designated fucking uh targets. Okay, so yeah, you know, I mean, I think that like you're right, the public might have a fucking idea in their mind because of some of this bullshit reporting that's been going on that we were just over there having a fucking free-for-all.

SPEAKER_03 2:17:58

I think that's the conception that's been put out there by the mainstream media that's exactly executing unarmed civilians. I don't know. I mean, like just walking around just shooting anyone, yeah, like just car blanch, like 2004 Baghdad.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no comment.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:13

Uh not so much the triple canopy or black water and you know those those scenarios.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:19

Yeah, it was pretty fucking weird back then, man. That's for sure. Yeah, live to tell the tale.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:25

Yeah, so yeah, anyway, let's move forward. Now we spoke about the 23rd of November 2007. This is where you know games change. Uh I've read your commendation. Yeah, yeah. And uh I'm gonna actually I'm gonna bring it and just have a quick read.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:40

Yeah, yeah, go for it, man. Yeah, go for it. Uh for the listener, I because Scojo was here this morning, I I uh I'm a bit of a fucking collector of things, and uh I've got a couple of clear plastic boxes, and uh I've got fucking newspaper articles and key key rings from fucking, you know, and I collect everything, you know, and I and I I had this in the box and um I don't have this on my wall, I don't really talk about it much, and uh it was in the box and Maddie was asking me about Luke Worsley, and I said, Look, I'll bring this out because it That's Australian history.

SPEAKER_03 2:19:14

Yeah, well, Australian military history, yeah. And then obviously we speak about Betty, this is where he gets his medal for gallantry.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:20

Yeah, we were we were we we dragged Luke out. And look, mate, I I've said it before and I'll say it again, and I know Betty would he and would have traded everything in his life for for Luke to be able to go back to Australia and with his mum and his dad, with Luke and Marjorie Worsley, like lovely people. Um he he he wasn't interdy wasn't interested in his fucking MG. I'll tell this story. He he he didn't want to get he didn't want to go to government house and accept it. And we we were like, nah man, like this is a big honour because the previous person to receive the MG was Brett Wood, Wood Dog, and and Wood Wooddog had got the the MG from rotation three, so then Beattie got put up and we're like you gotta do this, man, like for you, but for the unit, like and he reluctantly fucking went to government house and the photos of him fucking there are like hilarious, but like but and and then and then he had his MG in its little box and his and his MG citation in a fucking clear plastic tub under the stairs of his house, man. He just that was it, it wasn't on the wall, and he didn't have a glory wall with it or anything. It just yeah, you know, he was quite a humble man, you know. Like he didn't yeah, you know he's all are it's it's the same thing, mate.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:36

Like it's just again this Gojo's pretty fucking you know, container tub, and you know, but at the end of the day, for me, when I look read this stuff, it you know brings the memories alive of all these guys. But it it's this is Australian history, you know. We look back in a hundred years, you know, yeah prior to us. There's all that Australian history that's now been lost. But a lot of it's all been lost in translation, you know. Now we've you know we've got physical stuff where we can look at and that should be put up in the warm oral type thing, you know. Like look, that's the stuff that should be up in the war memorial because that's history.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:09

Yeah, I think so. Like, look, you know, I'm really looking forward to going and having a look at the war memorial when it reopened. Well, when it's uh I know Kerry Stokes donated half a billion dollars to you know, yeah, you know, and he's in RS's corner, man. So as far as I'm concerned, you know, good on him, mate. You know, like and he's this new war memorial fucking setup, uh, from what I've seen, it looks incredible. But look, man, that's just my my story, man. You know, like I there's so many guys like 100%. I know so many guys that did fucking incredible things overseas, man, that didn't even get a fucking mention, you know, and and none of them I know I and I know like there are some people who might be a little bit not bitter, but maybe they look at it and they think, oh, maybe I should have got recognised with something. But but then for the most part, I think most blokes are kind of just like Aussies are naturally kind of self-depreciating people, you know. Like we sort of we we do, you know, we got yeah, we got the tour poppy, but we also sort of keep each other in check. And you know, like I I remember I was presented that, you know, I I was on tag after that we were talking about I was on the tag, and I remember I didn't even know that I was fucking getting that. And we come back from the range and we I was in a flight suit in the briefing room at Luscombe Airfield, and they're like, I quit coming in, you know, the CO Paul Kenny, who who ended up making sockos, he's he's up here to do some presentos, and next thing you know, they read my name out, and I'm like, What fuck? I come up and they presented me that and the little fucking box and whatever, and I was like, and I mate, I was like fucking like I I was on the spot. Like I actually did the fadeaway at the back of the briefing room. I like I just kind of was like, because it was intense for me, man, because like I still hadn't processed. And look, like Luke, like Luke wasn't like a good mate of mine, but we were in the same section, right? We were in the same platoon, same section, um, different team. But I I had a lot of time for Luke because you know, when I came back in as a retread, he'd been over on rotation two, and he, you know, he was a he was a certified gunslinger in the company, you know what I mean? Like he he had respect because he'd been involved in some pretty heavy shit on rotation two. But he we did a small arms marksmanship coaching course together before we deployed, and I paired up with him at the range and um and he was really interested. He wanted to know about what Iraq was like, you know, and he and he was a friendly dude, he was you know, came from a Western Sydney family, like quite religious family, but just really nice dude, you know. I mean, I I never went out and drank piss with him or whatever, but uh he was my he was a fellow member of my platoon. So when he was killed, um it yeah, it fucking affected me a lot, man. And like I probably didn't really process that. And and then next thing you know, I'm getting caught up at the I'm in a flight suit in the tag compound and the CO's there to give me this fucking thing and read it out in front of my mates. And I I did the photo, I went back to the grots and I kind of just put it in my backpack and I was just sort of there, and I went and grabbed a beer out of the carton fridge. You know, if you're a fuck up, you gotta pay a carton. Todd Langley used to. I was because I was on the platoon with Todd Langley at the same time, so I was in there having a beer, and next thing you know, fucking Brett Wood fucking rolls in. He was my team commander on tag at the time, and and he he just goes, shook my hand, he goes, Good shit, cunt. Like, just like nodded at me. And that's that was for me, that was kind of like fucking like fuck that's what I needed. Like, you know, he didn't say, mate, do you want to talk about it? You know, or any like he just looked at me and shook his head, he goes, Good shit, cunt. And that, and that to me was like, look, I did my job, you know, like I I had a probably had a little bit of survivor's guilt because I did try and work on Luke after we dragged him out, and you know, like I went to White Light and I, you know, tried to sort of do a bit of work on him before I handed him over to the Kilo, um, and there was nothing I could do about it, you know, and and and so that that piece of paper there that you you just held in your hands, like it's for me, it's kind of like it's it was something that really had a profound effect on me, um, but it also helped me process it in a way in which that my peer group said to me, like, you know, mate, you did the best you could, you know what I mean? Like you you couldn't save his life. Um, you guys went into a shit fight and you managed to get out of there with one fella gone. Um, but you guys did a good job, and and that's how Betty looked at his MG as well, you know? So yeah, yeah. Well we'll definitely talk about Betty and obviously more about Brett Wood.

SPEAKER_03 2:25:31

Uh the the funny, the funny stories, the vehicles are about to be about that. Brett Woods is a bit of a tragic driver. Speed demon, which we'll talk about. But mate, quick, I I do want to touch on this 23rd of November 2007, you know, obviously the what led to you know the accommodations and yeah, that day, mate, because again, it's Australian history. We need to tell it. We don't want these stories to ever die. Yeah, we want Luke's, you know, the presence to live on forever and everyone that was involved.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:58

Yeah, 100%, man. 100%. You know, look the the people of um you know Richmond and Windsor, they they can there's a bridge that was erected in Luke's. I don't know whether you'd know the Luke Worsley suspension, pedestrian suspension bridge that yeah, and and uh you can just put it in the Google. If you're if you're from Western Sydney or wherever and you want to go and have a look, there's a there's a nice little um uh uh picture of him and then just a brief uh outline of of who he was and what he did, and then you can go and walk along the suspension bridge and yeah, wow. It's like it's it's it's a it's a monument of sorts, you know what I mean. But like, yeah, you know, and that because his family are from that area, you know, his dad worked for um State Rail. Really lovely people, man, and very they were very devastated after they lost their son, you know what I mean? And so it's important. And I'll tell you one thing that piece of shit from the Lint Cafe, man Monas, he sent fucking letters to Luke's parents. Did he? Yeah, hand delivered to their fucking letterbox at their residential house. I did read about that. So he stalked them and he he went and he put fucking handwritten letters in their letterbox calling Luke a pig, um, a dog, saying he's burning in hell and all this sort of stuff. And um, you know, a lot of people out there listening to this that, you know, like wonder why a lot of us guys are a little bit kind of like militant. Um, you know, families are sacred, you know, and and for someone to do that to a grieving mother and father who've lost their son, um, to go not only that, but to go to the sanctity of their home where they've lived, they've raised their family there for fucking decades and still continue to live there, um, was a personal affront to us, you know. And then the same guy, Man Monis, got his one of his women in a fucking full fucking burqa. Oh, sorry, yeah, to to hand deliver to Cassie Marks uh the same thing at the fucking funeral, and then he goes on to do what he fucking did, you know. And so it's like you know, the government's gotta fucking grip this shit up, you know, like it's 100%, mate.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:04

Well fuck his time did come. And shout out to Ben Bazan for shooting him in the face. Yeah, fucking.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:09

Should have been done fucking early.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:11

Oh mate, it like you said, the government, mate, they allowed this fucking shit down, their cunt was already on fucking bail. Yeah, and then he did what he did. Disgusting, you know, disgusting. Mate, so yeah, anyway, back to the 20th, yeah, 23rd of November 2007. Run me through that that that day.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:25

Okay, so again, uh, you know, the heroes of the dashed, um, driving around in fucking soft skinned vehicles um uh around, you know, like the uh TK greater area, Mirabad Bal Mirabad Valley, etc. etc. Um, I can't remember fuck, man. Look, we were towards the end of we we knew um the winter drawdown period was about to commence and that we had a short uh window of opportunity to continue conducting these um disruption and targeting operations until it was basically like you know, um pull up the stumps. Um we're going into the winter drawdown. So look, you know, the boss, the OC and the respective bosses and the platoons, you know, the plume platoon planners or whatever, like, you know, let's get what we can can done. So it was just night after night, job after job, drive, walk, prosecute, drive, walk, prosecute. That's what we were doing. So this particular job, um, we received the information. I I think that there were two brothers, I think their surname was like Dard, like Double A D, like the Dard brothers or whatever, and they were known fucking bad cunts. They'd have been involved in, you know, like um, you know, facilitating the transportation of OEDs, um, you know, bed-down locations for fucking people traveling through the area, etc. etc. I I don't know the full int picture on them, but I from what I understand was that they were known facilitators in the area and they were fucking bad cunts. And that so anyway, um we get we do the usual get orders, um we drive to the location, we set up the vehicles, um, we get our gear ready and we start this walk down into this fucking area. Uh and it was a long walk, man. It was a it was I think the walk down there was probably about seven or eight kilometers, um, maybe slightly more. Um it was a pretty still night from my memory. Um, I it wasn't it was it wasn't red alum, but like from what I remember, it was it was a little bit dark at the start. Um so the alum, uh the alum is basically um the the moon state at the time, and that helps with the mission planning because obviously like our night fighting equipment works better under certain conditions, um, and also for the um support assets that we have to help us. So, yeah, we're walking down this area, and um, you know, along the way we had these short sort of holds like navigation holds, quick hydration, fucking break, whatever. Anyway, we finally arrive in this um target area location where these main uh compounds of interest were, and we had to stop um to wait for like fucking H hour. Like, well, we moved to like you know, force separation point fucking final assembly positions and then H hour to prosecute because we had to separate our um force element um into different sort of I guess the best way to describe it for a layman is we walk in there in a what we call the commando congo line. So so you know, a big long fucking line of guys, and the reason we do that is to minimize our um footprint exposure, and um, so if we all walk in one sort of line, it's reducing your risk of hitting an IED on the ground on the way in. So we have engineers clearing the route in front of us, but we do walk in and then we fan out and then we move out to our separate objectives on the target location. So um we got to this area, and by this stage, like the moon had sort of like you know come up, it was quite bright, but um, and you could see very clearly with your night fighting equipment, you could see MVGs, you could see around the area, and we were sort of just getting our bearings going, yeah, all right, that's where we're heading, that's what we're gonna hit. And at that point in time, the dogs had started, like they'd smelt our scent, and they you know, it's like in Australia, you know what I mean? If the fucking Uber Eats guy comes to the wrong house and the the dog goes, Oh, that's an Indian bloke, he's not used to be hanging around here and starts barking. It's the same for us over there. Yeah, yeah. Bunch of fucking bunch of gringos fucking in here, you know. Lynx Africa. Yeah, yeah, we're in Lynx Africa. Yeah, different diet, different body odor, diff, you know, it gets carried on the wind. The dogs, they're not used to it, they start going off, right? So, like, there's you know, the dogs are going off, they're and you can't do anything about that, right? But then we start seeing these fighting age males walking around in pairs um around the fucking area, and they were basically like you know, roving patrols, tooled up. Uh they had blankets on, but they were tooled up, of course. Yeah, you know, like and and yeah, it was cold, and uh, and if they but they they have their weapon, and the reason being is because they know that the eye and the sky's watching them. So they cover up with the weapons. Yeah, I mean they're they're smart motherfuckers, they know they know what the go is. And just for listening, when we say tooled up for the civic listeners, they've got their possibly an AK underneath, yeah, under underneath, you know. Um, you know, a guy could be lying down next to a haystack and have a fucking RPG 7 line there ready to go, you know. Like you just don't know, like it's it's and you have to observe the pattern of life. Um, and you know, the eye in the sky could be doing that for you, or it could be like your recon snipers up on the hill that have gone there earlier, and they're providing you a battlefield, battle space commentary. Um, so yeah, we're there waiting for the fucking go-ahead and we're like, all right, well, there's something's gonna go on here because there's you know, dogs barking, there's dudes tooled up cruising around. All right, and just again, this is at night, yeah?

SPEAKER_03 2:34:00

Yeah, yeah. And obviously it's not it's not a common practice for people to be just walking around.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:04

Yeah, yeah, that's the that yeah, so that that's what we call you and I've got yeah, combat indicator. So the combat indicators were there that that it that something was gonna kick off, right? So anyway, then we then get given the command the the the orders to move to the you know uh FAPs, and then from there we get given the the the go-ahead for fucking HL, which is like execute, you know, um step up H commence the commence the fucking mission as per your orders. Um so we'd moved to this um uh one section Quebec platoon, so that was um Luke's team and then my team. Well, the team I was in under um you know, Beardy was the two IC. He stepped up as team commander for that job because our team commander had a really serious ear infection and to the point where like it had it had affected his equilibrium, as you know, like when the middle ear becomes infected. Yeah, yeah. So he he was fucked. And you can't go walking around at night with MVGs on when You've got issues with the equilibrium because you've fucked already with equilibrium. Yeah, you'd be walking around like you're drunk, you know what I mean? Like you lose that um uh sensory, like your peripheral vision, and you're looking through these green tubes. Yeah, and if you've got an issue with your with your balance, you you you just you're a lot, you're a liability to the team, you can't go out. So we'd knocked down to a five-man team. Um, we normally at then we're operating in six-man teams, so we'd knock down on a five-man team. Uh Betty had stepped up as the team commander, um, my crazy pub of New Guinean mate, who runs the news agency, he'd stepped up as the two IC. Um, and then there was me as the um designated marksman and team medic, and then the two re young Rio guys that, you know, and and that by that stage they they'd been on the with us towards the end of the trip. They were, they'd they'd been um conditioned to the environment. They weren't they weren't fresh off the rail anymore. They were yeah, they were into it, you know. So um we get to the compound and um for whatever reason we weren't allowed to go dynamic, we weren't allowed to fucking, you know, because the ROEs at the time we had to attempt to do manual entry at the time.

SPEAKER_03 2:36:13

Um now when you say dynamic, just sorry, just break this down for the listener.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:17

Um so a dynamic entry is when you get uh authorization to go explosive entry. So um you can we carry a variety of different charges depending on what the door or the entry point is. Um back then um it's pretty commonly known, like we used to carry this um charge, it's called a blade charge. I'm not gonna say what the what the size of the blade was because it comes in different sizes, but it's basically like it's it's a it's a length of um it's a basically a length of of a shape charge encased in a foam um uh foam carrying case, so to speak. Like it's encased encased in foam, and you can um you can utilize very strong adhesive um materials to like stick it onto a fucking door frame or whatever, and then obviously your initiation set runs off the top of it and you clack it off and blow a hole in the door or blow a hole off the door off its hinges, whatever. So we we weren't permitted to use um like blade or anything else for that time. So we're there trying to fucking get into this steel gate compound, you know, with fucking bolt cutters, um, cutting the chain to try and make entry. And you know, these gates are like, you know, large, they're fucking tin, they're very like they more they serve more of a of a barrier as opposed to like a strong physical barrier. Like you could drive a fucking car through one, but at night in the middle of you know, uh Joe Blow's not gonna be able to just like push it open, like you have to like cut the chains that are holding it in position and then open it manually. And so we're making a shitload of noise. Um and we're just it's I remember like the team commander or the section commander who had um overall control of the two teams, he's like, you know, you know, fucking hurry up, you know, we've got to get in there, let's go. And um and we finally got in, and and by that stage, um we'd received commentary that there was a guy on a roof or what had been seen stepping up onto a roof. And as we go in and we made entry into the compound, um, we go in and we then obviously fan out, depending on the you know what what the drills we were using, what the CQB, I'm not gonna say the name of the fucking you know, you know, you know what it is, right? Um and as we've gone in and we've we've sort of shaken out, um Luke has said um there's a fucking guy on the roof. Like, you know, he's given a targeting. He didn't, and when I say target indication, the boys that are listening to this in the fucking in the grunts or whatever, like it's not like um 15 meters, axis, like right, one enemy on the roof. Like it's like you know, there's a fucking cunt up on the roof. And because we we weren't on we were open voice at that time because you know we had we we weren't running silent, like we we'd gone loud but by trying to fucking make manual entry into this fucking gate at night. And so that was these last words, and and as soon as he said that, a fucking machine gun fucking opened fire, man, took him out, you know. Like um, and uh then there was another there was an AK-47 being fired out of another aperture within the compound. And I've said it, I've say it again, it's they call it the fatal funnel. Like when you make entry into a doorway, people direct their fire towards that entry point because they know that's where the people are coming, you know. It's you're not gonna shoot at the fucking wall or anything. It's like even though they probably they they probably realize it later that that people will flood in and then push out, but the average you know person's just gonna spray and pray. Um you know what I mean? Spray and pray, they're gonna hit something. Oh, there's the doorway, and that's what happened. Um Luke fucking said his piece, he said, There's a fucking guy on the roof, and and then that was it. And um returned fire then. Um, you know, and so the guys began returning fire. I returned fire. Um I was directing my fire towards the window aperture. Um, and then uh I had a guy next to me with a fucking uh para minimi, and he was firing um you know, controlled bursts, but with his night aiming device, he was firing into the fucking entry, the door entry next to that window aperture. So he'd he'd made the assessment that there was whoever had fired through that window was obviously behind that door. So he'd put pumped in a few bursts, and then um someone's like, you know, Luke's down, Luke's down, because there was sporadic, it wasn't just like a continual volume of fire, it was like, what the fuck's going on? And then like um Betty's like, um, Luke's down, fucking, and he said my call sign at the time, which was um Quebec 1.5, he's like, Quebec 1.5 on me, and so I've run over, and he's like, quick grab him, and we picked him up and we've dragged him to drag him back out to a position of safety so we could then commence um because the the the fire was being suppressed, um, but we weren't advancing it like there was still fire um being exchanged, but and it was like, all right, well let's get our mate out. We didn't know he was dead, let's get him out, we'll drag him out to a position of safety, and then we'll get the team medic to commence work on him, which was me.

SPEAKER_03 2:41:29

Um, and so we've run across and sorry, just quickly, how far was your how far did you have to run to Luke? Oh uh what happened to the guy on the roof as well?

SPEAKER_01 2:41:38

Yeah, yeah, the guy on the roof got the guy on the roof got taken out. Um and I'm pretty sure the guy on the roof was initially taken out by one of the boys in an adjacent um compound that was between the two compounds in like a little foot lane way, and when it kicked off, he'd like managed to look up and fucking given the guy a fucking double tap or something and taken him out, right? So anyway, Beaddie and I and another guy, um, I won't say his first name, but he's his surname would just say Roley. Like there were there were actually three of us, so like, because Luke was a big fucking dude, man. He was about six foot three, um, full kit, you know what I mean. You know, Betty was a big motherfucker, you know me. I'm a bit of a combat woman, you know, like short, but like and I'm robust, but like the two of us trying to drag him out in quick time, so Raleigh helped us, we got him out. Um, I then said, look, I got him, I switched to White Light, um, and I started doing my assessment. Betty's gone right in with me, and him and Riley, I'm pretty sure, went straight back in. And then Betty then grabbed the team, and that's when he did what he did for his medal for gallantry citation. He basically moved forward under fire um with um the crazy Papa New Guinea News Agency man. Um and they posted grenades and um yeah, like they basically like you know suppressed the fire. There was another person who was taken out um inside one of the rooms. I don't know whether you've read the citation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you picked up a weapon and they were they were eliminated. Um meanwhile, I'm out there, I switched to white light, and then straight away I I could see that Luke had a you know a catastrophic fatal head injury. And um, and so I was just like basically like, oh shit, like you know, I'm trying to find a pulse, no pulse. Um and at the time, like I I got on the radio and I was like, you know, I'd uh I requested that Kilo come up, and then that was being coordinated by the platoon sergeant who'd at that stage had moved into where I was, and he was getting ready to go in and provide support. And I said, no, no, don't go in, man. Like it's still going off back in there. Because that was when Betty and and um old mate had started pepper potting forward, and then they started posting grenades, and so once all of that, and then we got like you know, the fucking two dead enemy, fucking, you know, compound clear, then the platoon sergeant moved back in. I did the handover with the Keelo who'd come up. Um, Keelo, very well-known dude within the Special Operations Command, New South Wales Ambulance, um, big tall blonde fella. Um, you put I'll I'll talk to you offline, you probably know who he is, man. But he came up and I'd known him for a very long time. He'd considered him a good mate. And um to do the handover with him, and he was someone who had actually trained me in my um combat medicine, he'd run, you know, like advanced um medical training with the New South Wales ambulance special casualty access teams. He'd organised all that for us, and and to have him come up as the platoon medic and do the handover with me so I could then go back in with my team um was yeah, like I kind of he he goes, Look, we can't do anything for him, man. Like, you know, you go back in there with your team, I'll look after him. So by that stage, a Talon stretcher, collapsible stretcher, had been brought forward, and then um he started the process of like securing him on that um for subsequent evacuation. And and so, yeah, so then by that stage I went in with the rest of the team, um, finished doing the clearance. We actually found a fucking another PKM on ground level that was like, Thank fuck they hadn't got that one arced up as well. So the if they had the two PKMs focusing on the fucking entry point, it would have probably been a different story for us. Um, but we found that in another one of the rooms. Um, and then yeah, like we just went ahead with uh what we called at the time a TSE, uh tactical side exploitation, and you know, just looking for you know weapons, ammunition, ID components, mobile phones, fucking Intel, maps, fucking paperwork, you name it. Um, and then yeah, I'm sure you know the story about like how we had to get Luke out. We couldn't, yeah, we um we couldn't call in a bird to to get him out. Um that we didn't have it, we had some um personnel under containment, like you know, pr we we we weren't allowed to call them prisoners anymore. We had to call them pucks, like PUCs. So we had some pucks um that we had to take off to under confinement. Confinement. Yeah, so it's it's all part of like legal, legal change, chain of custody and and legalities or whatnot. Um so we had these person PUCs or pucks, um, and then we obviously had Luke Luke's um corpse, his body armor, his weapon, um, all that sort of stuff, his helmet and NVGs. And um they were trying to get a fucking bird in for us to get him out, like because it was a as I said, it was a pretty arduous walk in, and we knew that was gonna be a fucking arduous walk out, um, because it was uphill to get back up, back out of the valley. And um uh also, too, we were coming up on first light, and these cunts were on the like, you know, Scojo's fucking comrade comrades, like the bears were on the radio going, look, you know, they're on the fucking blower, like they're coming up up from the next valley, they're sitting up on the high ground, you know, they're talking about the fucking did you bring the big the watermelons and all that shit that they talk about, and so I was like, you know, we're gonna have to get moving and get out of here, you know. We're gonna have like the the birds not coming in, we're humping him out. So we carried Luke out on a stretcher for fuck, it was by the time we got back there, I think it worked out to be about 9Ks. Mate, I I I I laugh not because of the Luke dying was funny. I but on selection, I so the reason they put you through the fucking ringer on selection, man, is because you know shit like that does happen on operations, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:43

Like in um stretcher carry like how many times you done stretch a carry in a hundred percent scenarios, you're like, fucking what are we fucking doing this? Again, fuck this shit. Yeah, what is this shit? Yeah, I think uh J-Mo spoke about this as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:56

Yeah, yeah, it's um and mate, it was it was fucking hard work, bro. That was probably one of the hardest like physically, but like it Well, you're carrying your dead mate out as well.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:08

That's that's that's a big toll. Obviously, not at that that that point, but you know, in subsequent time, you know, you think back and go, fucking.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:16

Yeah, looking back on it, you know, it's pretty wild. And even now, like, you know, like you know, I I don't think about it a lot. Like, you know, the when he you know recently at the end of the 23rd of November, you know, like always pause and you know, the the Bush Telegraph, you know, they'll get the WhatsApp messages or the you know the the the the DM or whatever you're going, oh you know, mate, it's fucking it's Luke's anniversary today, man. Like, you know, I hope you're travelling well and and I don't drink alcohol anymore. Like I used to be a big beer man, but you know, boys at something like you know, raise the glass for Luke tonight and all that. I mean we don't forget those guys at all, like you know, never and sometimes too, like, you know, just random uh out of the blue, like, you know, I'll think about someone like that, you know, and and um, you know, on the back of Anzac Day, especially, you know, like about the sacrifice, and these guys are you know no longer here, but yeah, like looking back on it, and it was a pretty I mean we got back to the video and um uh Luke's the stretcher was taken into the centre where the um CHQ tack like the CHQ vehicles were, and um the came over the radio. Look, look, anyone who wants to come and like you know pay their respects to Luke before we backloaded back to TK on the helo, come in now. We've got like security set up, you know. Um the guys that have just got back from the job, have a feed, have a fucking um make a brew, you know, put a bit of fucking baby powder on your fucking ball sack, whatever you want to do, like you know, have a smoke. Um, because we will be moving after we backload him and the and the prisoners, we we we're move, we're moving on to the next job. You know, like we we've got a map, we've got another fucking job to go to after this, right? So, um and yeah, look, you know, the CSM, um, great guy. Like, I I saw him at the unit on Anzac Day. Um, you know, he great guy, got a lot of time for him. He he came around to every single guy at every single vehicle and sat with us, like whether it was for just a minute or two or guys that needed to have a bit of a chat, you know, like um, and just was like, you know, fucking you're doing all right, boys, you know, good job. That was a hard slog, but you've done the right like it was like a almost like a footy coach would say to his team at half time, you know what I mean? You did it, you've you've done him proud, like you know, you can hold your heads up high, boys, you did well. We're gonna get him back out to back home safely to his parents, but we've got to keep our fucking game face on here because we're still out, we've got another job to do tonight, you know, and that was it. And um I fucking one of my mates said to me, He goes, Hey man, have you got a spare fucking shirt in the in your in your gear in the back of the thing? And I'm like, Yeah, boy, and he goes, mate, you got fucking blood all over you. And um from working on Luke and like you know, carrying him on the stretcher and and but you know, holding the stretcher, I had all down my shoulder and the back, you know, I I was covered in fucking blood, and I didn't know, like, and a lot of the other guys were, and and so I I just I basically just we had a a burn pit going um where we could burn all the fucking rubbish and shit, like not like an incinerate, just a small hole in the ground, you know, and um I just basically took my shirt off, um took my undershirt off, put a fresh one on, and I just put a bit of diesel fuel on it and threw it in the fire. Um, because hey, it's you know it's a biohazard, but also too, like, you know, I mean, I I I'm not gonna keep that shirt. I'm not, it's not like I'm gonna go back and wash it at the laundry and fucking wear it on the next job. Like I, you know, I had to I needed to get rid of it, you know, and and and that was kind of that was just the way it was, you know. And um, so then the hilo came in. Um some fellas came from TK, um, the the task force RSM came out on that bird, um, because part of his responsibility is to help with the transportation and custody of prisoners, but also to come out and like, you know, just sort of give us the thumbs up and you know, we're we're taking it, we've got him, we're taking him back, you know, it's all we it's all good now, you know. So, yeah, and we were back out there for another couple of days, man. And um the couple of the boys were kind of going, you know, what the f like, you know, we're gonna go out, are we gonna go back and say goodbye before he goes on the ramp ceremony, you know? And and at the time, because it was at the end and they wanted to maximize our effectiveness on the battlefield because of that time frame before C SOPs, um, there was a bit of conjecture, but then I'm glad that they made the decision to get us back into Camp Russell and so we could have a um memorial service. We we did have a memorial service, like a proper one, like where you know there was a a eulogy spoken, um, you know, like and um uh pro and then we had a bit of a send-off in the in the Beehuts, a bit of a you know, a few beers, and then the ramp ceremony, and then after that, mate, that trip was um finished because um yeah, that was the that was the final job for us that we're going back to Australia. Winter drawdown guys, they then um stayed over there for the winter and yeah, froze their fucking balls off. Yeah, yeah. Generally, uh one commando guys would come over and find that spot. Yeah, that's right. And that particular trip, um Bravo boys stayed behind. Um, and I think a lot of them went up to the White House up in the Chora Valley, um, and they were living under fucking like tarpaulins and you know the old chulfers, yeah. Standing around old chufers freezing their balls off, and there's a few photos getting around it. Like if you go on JJ Kale's um Instagram, or I don't know if he's got it anymore, but he put a few pictures up of the boy because he was there at that time with Betty and a few of the other boys, like they stayed behind, and um yeah, man, so yeah, and I came back and had a few weeks off and then went on the tag.

SPEAKER_03 2:54:02

And how'd you go again coming back? You know, I speak about this on other podcasts, you know, just the reintegration back into Australia, you know, again, back from fucking biblical times to now back to the Kooji Bay Hotel having a beer.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:16

You know what I mean? Mate, I I was more like I I was more of a crossroads fella. Oh yeah, yeah, I love the fucking crossroads, mate. Fucking Liverpool, fucking CD. Fucking earth, mate. No, I don't well no, they tidied it up. No, I um well no, I I like the crossroads, but um, we were actually banned from going there when I first got to the to the unit because the rebels used to fucking drink there, but yeah, good honor, mate, whatever. But um, no, I um yeah, look, mate, I I came back and um I I I'd I my missus uh who then became the my wife and mother and my children, um, she I she'd helped me like I I wanted to move. I was living with Dave Parker.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:55

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:55

Yeah, we were living in a fucking two-bedroom apartment in Alexandria, and um he'd gone through a marriage separation, so he'd recently moved into this bachelor apartment in Alexandria, and then I'd come back from Iraq and I needed a place, I wasn't gonna live on the lines, and he's like, Come and move in with me, cunt, you know, we'll have a good time. And um, Dave fucking loves a mojito, like he's you know, he's a good cook, and it was good, man. We lived we lived together and we were in Bravo and we went away on the trip, but then when I came back, I kind of wanted to have my own space, you know. Like I'd been living in compounds and fucking camps for a long time. So my missus at the time, she'd secured a little terrace for me on uh Regent Lane in Redfern, just like just just behind the BP service stations. Think of it. Yeah, next door to a uh Tongan congregation church. So on the Sunday morning I'd be lying in bed and I'd hear these, you know, Tongan guys like singing and their guitars and that. And I used to like um stumble down to the Lord Ragland hotel for a beer or fucking so Redfern was my stomping ground at that time when I came back. But no, look, I I came back, you know, man. I went down to Aubrey like I always did to see my family and friends and um, you know, just hang out down there. And I probably really didn't process anything, man. It wasn't like I just like I said, it wasn't really until I I was given that piece of paper, man, that I I kind of really sort of I was just all of us then were just caught up in this kind of like this we're on this treadmill of operations and like you know the next thing, you know, like you know, we cut back and it was like I all I was thinking of was oh I'm I'm gonna be going on to the tag in a couple of weeks, you know. I've got to make sure I've got all my fucking admins squared away. I'll you know, I'll have a bit of a break and let my hair down, but I'm I'm going on online with the tag, you know, those boys that they've been online, like I'm coming in off off ops off um post deployment leave, um, and I'm coming into a team that's been online for a couple of months. So I'm gonna have to like, you know, fucking get my shit together. Um so that yeah, like I didn't really, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:57:00

So I was just Did you did your missus or your, you know, your Your family have any concept of what you've been through and that no kept it within yourself.

SPEAKER_01 2:57:08

No, they didn't know. Like I I I did tell I did tell my my parents um I said the because my mum and dad knew what I did for a living. You know, they'd been up to an open door. Yeah. My my partner, well, my missus at the time, um, she knew that I was in the army, but she didn't really know what I fucking did, you know, and like and and and obviously like you know, her parents were very much like people that would like, you know, get the the daily telegraph every day and watch the fucking six o'clock news. And and and I remember when I got back, like, you know, she was like, Oh, did you know that guy that was killed overseas? And I said, Yeah, yeah, and I knew him. He was he was one of our guys, and that's sort of all I said. And like, you know, because uh yeah, you you you don't do it to try and you know, you're not acting like you're fucking James Bond or something, but it's just you don't want the people that are close to you to to to to really kind of like um you don't want them to worry about you because people naturally worry about people that they care about, yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, it's like the wife of the truck driver who's about to drive interstate for two hours two days, like she worries about him being on the road. Of course, a soldier's wife or girlfriend or mother is going to be concerned about what they're up to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:58:21

And um but surely your parents are like, come, mate.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:24

Yeah, we we know.

SPEAKER_03 2:58:25

Yeah, I think we come from a military fit family history. Yeah, look at that. I understand the concept here.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:30

Yeah, look, mate, I think my my mum had kind of just sort of resigned herself to sort of a bit of a ignorance is bliss. Yeah, um, and you know, it sort of saddened me uh in years later to come that my mum had told me that you know there were times because when where my parents live, or my mum now, because my father passed away last year, but like where my they live, it's in a semi-rural area, and there's one road going in and going out, and especially going up to their place. And at night, um, it's very unusual for a car to drive up that road unless it's you know someone from the family or someone coming over for a drink or whatever. And mum told me like there were many nights while I was overseas, you know, selfishly doing where she'd be like sitting there watching TV and she'd see a car lights coming up the driveway, and she'd sort of be standing at the front door, like, you know, with her dressing gown on, and you know, dad'd be in his office doing his thing, but mum, and she'd be like, Oh, there's a car coming in, dad'd be like, Don't worry about it, you know. Well, no, if and she's just being a mother would be standing at the door like just hoping that it wasn't someone coming to tell her that I'd been fucking killed. And I and and then when you're in that fucking mindset and that and that I didn't even think of that, man. You know, and and and in years later to come, it made me really appreciate, like, you know, when they do say, you know, they say at these um family days and Anzac Day, like, you know, the the sacrifice made not just by the soldiers or whatever, but by their families. Well, that's what they're talking about. You know, they're talking about the wife that you know can't sleep at night because she's tossing and turning because she hasn't heard from her husband for a week, um, or the mother that, you know, is that terrified that the car coming up the driveway is the notification team you're telling her that her son's dead, you know, and and these callous people can say, oh, well, you know, it's your fault for fucking doing the job, you know. You shouldn't you should have thought of that before you fucking join the army, you fuck with. And it's like, well, yeah, well, mate, who's gonna fucking, you know, who's gonna stand at the fucking gates, mate? Like, someone's gonna do it, fucking do it, man. You know, same with the cops, fierys, fucking that's it. Even the fucking poor Ambos, mate, they cop it when they're out there trying to fucking fix people up, man. You know, it's yeah, so I'd anyone who serves the community or the country, man, I I I got a special place in my heart for 'em, man, because you know, it you do, you you put yourself second, man. You know, and that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_03 3:01:00

Yeah, yeah, 100%. So you're back, uh, as you said, you move into the tag east uh role mates, crack on with that.

SPEAKER_01 3:01:08

Yeah, um, mate, yeah. Look, tag, um fuck, within the first so come back, come on leave within the first like three weeks. You're gonna laugh about this. It's kind of reminiscent of the um the Choco story with the fucking motorbike accident. Oh yeah. We get we have this SSM from Perth um uh who's come over to be the CSM of the tag, and um he decides that he wants to run a parkour session for PT for the first day back around the Afghan village and the SFTF out the back of Holesworthy, like running around with like you know, jumping off brick walls and fucking climbing up fucking fences and sliding down fucking fire escape poles and all this sort of shit. And um, yeah, look, whatever. I mean, different type of P T you could call it battle PT, but um yeah, man, and uh hot and sweaty, and um it was uh uh we had to climb up uh w run up the stairs of an external staircase on the back of the STF, SFTF, um uh 360 degree firing range, climb over the banister, lower ourselves down, and then um basically like firemen slide down the fucking uh steel support beam holding up the fucking staircase. It was the ri whoever did the risk management fucking planning for that PT station. I'm not look, but what happened was I I fucking took a full fall off the fucking first floor fucking um staircase, went to slide down, lost my control, and fucking came down on my left ankle and shattered it, man. Um shattered the tailus, tailor dome, um uh had the tendon ripped off the bone. Um straight away, fucking medic was there. Um it was actually Jez Holder, um Jeremy Holder, MG. Yeah, yeah. He was he was the Lamplatoon medic at the time. He's like, fucking hell, Robert, like gets the ambo, gives me a fucking green whistle. Um straight away I'm down to the fucking Tobrook Lines Medical Centre, and they're like, Alright, we've got to get you into Liverpool for X-rays. And they're like, Yep, you you're gonna be out of action for a while. Um, so then I have to have a fucking um what's called a brostrum reconstruction, and like uh they do it with footy players all the time, and um, so I'm out of action. So all of 2008, you're out of action, not all of 2008. Again, again, this is like the back thing, right? And I didn't get on steroids this time. So what happened was at the time, so then my old crew at Bravo Company, um, the new uh OC spinning them up, and I ran into him one day, just down. I I ran into him um not gonna say his name as you, but the boys will know I'm talking about. And uh he's an old old school Bravo guy, and um he's like, What are you doing with yourself now, man? You know, like I I heard you had injury you had an injury, you know, what's going on? I said, Look, I'm doing a rehab. Um, you know, I should be able to get back into the fucking uh land platoon, back into the teams, probably around about, you know, September, August, September. And he's like, why don't you come back to fucking Bravo? You know, we're gonna get ready to go over there again, fucking 09, you know, rotation nine. And I thought, oh yeah. And and I said, and I said, well, is there any chance if I do come back I can go in a um such and such as team? And he's like, oh, well, let me have a chat. I'll see, I'll speak to the CSM and see if we can massage something. I'll I'll send you a text. Well, later on that day, you fucking got it, got a text from the OC, and he's like, mate, we we can get we can facilitate that for you, you know. If you want to come, let me know and I'll um, you know, I'll have a chat to the fucking OC of the tag and we'll see if we can IPO you back down to Bravo, but you have to pass the fucking medical clearance for in order to deploy again. So, and I did. Um, I I had to go and do like a fucking 10k root mark, two laps around the ring road to prove to them that I could do it. Um, but that came and bit me in the ass again later in life, man. I had to go and they had to go and do another fucking recoil on my left ankle because I rushed it. Of course, yeah. But I ended up back in Bravo, back in fucking Quebec Platoon, back in one section Quebec Platoon with my old crew and back over there on rotation nine.

SPEAKER_03 3:05:25

So back on the same team?

SPEAKER_01 3:05:27

Uh well, the same call sign, yep, but different TL. Um, who that TL, as I told you earlier, like Bertie, Betty was my youngest daughter's godfather. This TL is my oldest daughter's godfather. So very good friend of mine, um someone who I also looked at, he he was an ex 2RR um two RR recon, but two RR snipers that came down. So um, sniper team leader up in the battalion, um, you know, one of the original sort of CT snipers in the tag. Well, not original, but like he'd he'd been up there, um, gone over to Perth, done all the black roll sniping stuff. Um, and so I ended up with him and his team. So I had the bonus of working with a mate, um, but also somebody who professionally I really looked up to and and helped cultivate me with my skill sets and my um grooming me to essentially step up to to become a team leader myself. So so yeah, that was it. Over there, rotation nine.

SPEAKER_03 3:06:27

Um and this is where four AR turned into two commando.

SPEAKER_01 3:06:31

Yeah, man. Um 19th of June 2009, um, the unit had its official name change ceremony.

SPEAKER_03 3:06:39

You were in Afghanistan?

SPEAKER_01 3:06:40

I was in the GAN.

SPEAKER_03 3:06:40

That's pretty cool. Yeah. Like that's pretty yeah, that's history again.

SPEAKER_01 3:06:43

Yeah, it was, man. It was, and it was cool because like when I came back, they the cunts had actually looked after us and they'd they'd they had individual challenge coins made up for all members of the unit for that particular date. So it had like you know, second commander regiment, the date, and it was um in its own little case. So they they gave them to us, so we you know we missed out on the ceremony, but we got a little bit of the memorabilia. Um so then, yeah, like um, and then from there on I stayed with Bravo for the rest of my career, man.

SPEAKER_03 3:07:13

Yeah, um, yeah, just want to expand on that SOTG rotation nine.

SPEAKER_01 3:07:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 3:07:17

Uh a similar scenario, a vehicle moves and you know, similar job, you know, direct direct action.

SPEAKER_01 3:07:24

Yeah, the first well, so odd have you had uh Damien Tomlinson on the podcast? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Iceman. Iceman. The Iceman.

SPEAKER_03 3:07:32

That's from Berggs.

SPEAKER_01 3:07:33

Yeah, yeah, Iceman. No, well, so um Damo, I I I never called him the Iceman. They they used to call him that to take the piss out of him, man. I was like, no, he's a good cunt, you know. But Damo, um yeah, so obviously that that pushed down a fucking helm and where we, you know, we lost um we lost Brett Till on the way down, um, and then Ice Um, unfortunately, you know, he lost his legs and and got pretty badly banged up. But you know, I mean, talk about a hard motherfucker, you know what I mean? Like he uh he said he wanted to meet us when we came back, he wanted to shake our hands when we stepped off the strata air flight, like when we came back to us to Australia. And mate, sure enough, when we were walking down the fucking ramp, uh walking down the the airbridge at Sydney Airport, and he's standing there looking skinny as fuck, and you know, probably morphed up to his eyeballs and morphine, but these he he wanted to shake our hands as we came off the plane just to say, look, I I'm still here, they didn't they didn't fucking kill me. Like, yeah, and then he's gone on to do fucking amazing things.

SPEAKER_03 3:08:34

Were you there when that job happened? Yeah, I was man.

SPEAKER_01 3:08:37

Yeah, I wasn't into like I wasn't because that was Romeo Plato's Quebec. Yeah, but I was the position I was in, man. I can tell you like like as soon as it because we're all tied into the company net, right? And you could hear what was going on on the company net, and then you know what it's like in the middle of the night when you hear a fucking big explosion, and like you'll hear it, and it's and everything's just silent, like it just like yeah, and for a second bit while people are gathering this SA like on what the the it's not just like instant communications, it's like you know, that's often there's a pause, like you know, yeah, and then someone will go, you know, like and and you'll hear that, like, you know, this is Romeo, you know, um IED strike or you know, fucking whatever. And I remember we heard it and then we saw it, the and I and I remember thinking, holy fuck, like that was a fucking big battery, that was fucking big, you know, and then and then subsequent, you know, like the the the work that the boys did, you know, to fucking keep him alive and um Rob Muggerich.

SPEAKER_03 3:09:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So have a listen to his potty couple back and you can get that full story, and obviously Tomo put him on as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:09:45

Yeah, Tomo, you know, and and and mate, I will say there was another fella, and I'm I'm not gonna say his name, but the boys will know who I'm talking about, and um who received a commendation for fucking distinguished service for for what he did that night to help with with the with ice. And unfortunately, he fell afoul of the the the defence um judicial, like you know, he he basically I'm not gonna say he was implicated in something, I'll tell you offline, but you can't take away what he fucking did that night, man. He he was instrumental in fucking treating casualties and keeping people fucking alive, you know, and um uh you know, and and he he eventually um I'm pretty sure he separated from defense. He had he had a few some pretty serious personal problems, and um, I guess you could say, like, you know, he was handling them in a way which wasn't really authorised. And and um, but but he he was also this guy, you know, he received a commendation for distinguished service and he helped save lives, you know. So, um, but yeah, man, they did a fucking amazing job. And anyway, sure enough, the next day it was like, you know, we're fucking back into it again. Like, you know, I think they say gentlemen's hours, like we'd fucking move out into the dashed out of fucking range of the 107 millimeter fucking recoilless rifles, and we'd get our orders, and then we'd start fucking rolling in, you know, advanced to contact, and then it'd just be on, man. Like we and we were there to basically take the pressure off the fucking um there was a there was a bit of shit going on there at the moment at the time of the Kajaki um hydroelectric dam, and then there was also a rip going on, um, relief in place um with some other units. So yeah, man, we just went down there and just wreaked fucking havoc for a few days, and um, we had an ODA fucking detached from us, and their JTAC um who's a black guy whose call sign was Jaguar, he was just fucking dropping bombs and it was crazy, man. It was like you know, medium intensity fucking warfare. Like, yeah, like serious shit, you know, like fucking, you know, we we we had a 107mm um uh 107 launcher that had us line OT, like where we were, and I like so one landed shy of us, and we're like, fuck, that's you know, it's pretty close, you know. Like, was that a lucky one? Let's just sit here and assess. And then next thing you know, we hear this like uh straight over the top of us, and on the same line blew up about a hundred metres behind us, and the teal's like, fuck, this gun's got us line OT. And they're fucking accurate. Yeah, so we just it was like the wacky races again, like we're driving around and there's like you know, rations falling off the back, and you know, because we we we were kind of like we we were we thought we were out of range, and you gotta you gotta give credit to the fucking enemy, man. Like, you know, he's he's within two rounds, he's fucking he's on to us, yeah. Um and if one of those things had hit the side of our vehicle, man, it was like you know, well that's it, mate. It's night, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. So um yeah, that was crazy, man. And then you know, we made our way back. We stopped at DeRaywood at Firebase Tikes. Um, there's that picture I put up on my social media of us out the front. There's a lot of guys are taking photos at that sign, man. It was like, you know, nothing special, but yeah, it was just one of those sort of battlefield tourist things that you do. And um, it was really cool because like the the ADA guys were from there, and like, you know, the they we got there and they um put on a fresh feed for us and you know, a few fucking unauthorized beverages. Um and then the next day we were we were fucking back to TK, but um, yeah, you know, and then yeah, and then just fucking more operations, more jobs. Um yeah, I mean, and that was a good trip, man. Like, you know, we didn't we we had no one killed on that trip, man. Like we uh well we had not from not from two commando, like uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, 80 up. Yeah, like you know, we lost Tilly and um you know, like that and that and his loss was felt pretty fucking strongly, man, because he was a popular guy, and um, but then uh rotation 16 man was like that was like when we started fucking working with the DEA and fucking Yeah, we'll talk about that in a second, mate.

SPEAKER_03 3:14:07

The effective the effectiveness of your operations on the ground as in taking out Taliban, I'm sure there was a ton.

SPEAKER_01 3:14:17

Yeah, well, as you know, uh they they had a sort of a habit of um measuring battlefield success by the number of like you know, EKIA and um you know, they'd obviously like you know, they'd count how many fresh graves appeared the the following weeks or months or whatever, or listen to the chatter and the the int and um but you know it's it's like that what I said before, the whack-a-mole, you know what I mean? Like you take as many of them out as you want, and yeah, you'll disrupt them back up again, disrupt them for a while. But just over the border in Pakistan, there's madrasses full of fucking willing fucking candidates to fucking come over and um you know give it a crack, and and that's what it was, mate. It was just it was like a I wouldn't say a war of attrition, because that's not the the correct way to um apply that, but it was just like you know, yep, we'll go in there and we'll fuck this area up and we'll do what we have to do to achieve our um objectives and our strategic um objectives here. Um that Kajacki job, we we did do what we had to achieve. Like we went down there and we achieved the objective, but um yeah, you know, like it's Hellman was a fucking yeah, I mean, that was a bad fucking area, man. And um, you know, you just go down there constantly fucking hitting these people, man, and and you know, they just re recoup, um, you know, reconfigure, recalibrate, fucking move into the next area and continue their fucking skullduggery and fucking, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's it was I mean, probably the most you know, and it's a good segue into the next trip, man. Like probably the most satisfying SOTG I had was rotation 16 or next one. Counter Nexus, like the well Nexus, counternexus, the counter-narcotic operations, man. Um, because not only were we able to gain access to um assets that we we normally would never have been able to. And I'm talking about like, you know, eye in the sky kind of stuff, you know what I mean? And I'm not talking about like drones, I'm talking about the next level up, you know what I mean? Like you're talking about the DEA, you know, like they have their own fucking satellites. Yeah, so like, you know, when you when you've got like, you know, um you're working for these people in conjunction with these people, and they have that kind of, you know, because they take their mission fucking very fucking seriously, and obviously their budget is fucking, you know, and so when you're getting this information and intel from those kind of um sources and you're going out and um you know, going out with a DEA fast team, they they don't call them that anymore. Like they sort of they wrapped up the fast um teams after uh the GAN, but um you know, like you know, fucking DEA agents that are fucking tactically trained and you know, like um small unit tactics, and they're fucking they're hard hitters, man. Like they're you know, they're not just some like DEA agent in fucking suit that's you know trained in the M4 and he's got his fucking cry precision. Yeah, they're fucking they're the fucking real deal. And um, you know, going out with those guys and and you know, like, okay, um, this is the target. Um, these are this is why we're hitting these cunts and why we're gonna fucking attack this fucking drug laboratory or um this you know opium processing facility, fucking whatever. Um, it's gonna be heavily contested. And I'm and it's not just a lot of people seem to think that you're just talking about you know, bricks of heroin or fucking, you know, like manufacturing yeah, like like um drums of fucking morphine solution. You know, that there's a there's a there's a process that a lot of civilian people probably don't understand of how the poppy, the red flower, is turned into the fucking smack. You know, or um and there's a there's a quite a detailed processing um or system of process that takes place in order for that to happen. And they weren't dumb cunts, like they they they would separate the different uh stages of production to different uh locations. So they didn't keep all their eggs in one basket. Yep, yep. So they might have you know jingle trucks that were on standby. So once they'd um processed the opium resin or paste into the solution and had it in drums, they'd then load that into the drums and then move it to another location to go through the next part of the process. Or and and so, you know, we were hitting like, you know, targets that had you might go there and there might just be like, you know, fucking bags and bags of fucking opium that's just been scraped off the side of the poppy bulbs, you know, and that's the that's the first sort of line of the of the process. processing um uh chain of processing or we might have there was one job that the guys did uh the Romeo platoon guys did and it was like I think it was like four tons of fucking opium seeds so four tons of seed for the next harvest so it's like we're going after the seeds you know like and stop the harvest yeah stop the hard like break that chain yeah break that chain um you know blowing up you know I've got the footage of it you know like you know setting up charges to fucking blow up four tons of fucking seeds um it's crazy isn't it yeah just for listening it all starts from a poppy on a fucking field you know a crop and essentially it'll it'll change colour be red and then they come through with this little razor blade and it's got it's like serrated so then they just scrape every single fucking you just watch them bleed bleeds that white it's obviously the white paste and then crystallizes and they come back uh when it's when it's dried and they scrape it off and they've got like a little little sort of um pouch that they wear off their heels just sit down watch them I'd I remember sitting there for hours just watching going fuck that this poor cunt's doing every single one too that's a shit job. And I mean like you know obviously like you know not all of those guys like you know a lot of those guys like I know it's an old tropic thunder fucking meme like I'm just a farmer like um but a lot of those guys were just purely like you know and the Taliban are going and go listen cunts like um we'll pay you you know um for this harvest we'll give you you know 10 grand US or whatever it is um but you're gonna do it yeah that's you have to do it you're gonna do it you're gonna do it out of the material and we'll we'll we'll pay you for it but you're gonna do it. Yeah there's no ifs or buts right so this old mate out there you know look he doesn't have a fucking choice you know look he's not you know he that's just his job and that's what he's going to do and they weren't the guys that we were going after man no we were going after the guys that were facilitating it and the guys that were then and what they called it the nexus was because the drug the the drug trade and the money that was coming in from the drugs was then being used to purchase armaments of course yeah explode so that's where the nexus occurred.

SPEAKER_03 3:21:13

Yeah um so we were going after the nexus right and and with the DEA with us the the but added benefit was that the some of the narcotics was getting destroyed or targeted as well a lot of people don't understand how a lot of the fucking smack from Afghanistan ends up in like Europe and Turkey and all that and how like then the IGRC are in like the Iranians are involved in it and yeah not the Iranians they're good people let's just take a quick break yeah yeah quick break yeah quick break all right uh just quick from another quick break this is uh it's it's getting a long podcast it's gonna be a long podcast but there is so much to this story and uh yeah I've uh been keen to hear more about this but we're just talking about offline then you know we uh you know I spoke about a little bit earlier about Taliban casualties and obviously most you know operators have pulled the trigger and taken a life mate and I'm sure you have on numerous occasions mate but you know and I guess yeah let's it's look it's something that you know I I have been asked this question before um you know and I I and I don't take offence when people ask me the question you know like you know a lot of little young young fell young fellas and kids will you know say oh did you did you kill anyone overseas or whatever and I I always say the same thing I say look I I had a job to do over there you know I'd I depending on who I'm talking to look I'm talking to you I'll be like yeah fuck you know man on that particular job I I had to utilize a fucking 84 millimeter airburst into a fucking compound because these pricks were doing this whatever but when I'm talking to like you know a civy or you know like be a friend of my mum's or fucking you know one of my kids' friends I just say look you know I that was part of my job um you know the the boys that I work with you know like you know that was part that was a big integral part of what we did um it's not as though we were out there solely to do that we had task objectives and sometimes we would pull off a task or a mission without a shot being fired and that was considered fucking successful you know we we might have come up on a on a an objective that was contested but we might have got the drop on them and and they might have either not had a chance to get ready or decided that they didn't want to die that day so we wrap them up you know fucking take take control of them to take uh take them as prisoners and send them off um and then other ones where it didn't go like that you know and and you know people were fucking killed and some of our guys were killed and a lot of theirs were killed and um you know particularly jobs where you know fucking airstrikes had to be called in you know um because at the end of the day you know the ground force commander will make an assessment and say okay well look you know am I gonna risk sending a fucking team of blokes in there to clear this thing or am I gonna drop a couple of J Dams on it you know or worst case scenario like a am I am I gonna call in a you know a 2,000 pound fucking bomb on this on this on this objective um to sort of tie it into for instance the day bearie was killed on I don't know whether you've had a chance to speak to too many people.

SPEAKER_01 3:24:31

No they were they were denied they they they were not permitted to to drop any munitions on that line. I've heard about this yeah yeah they they were denied they were because I think it was registered as a as a mosque on the um on the CAS graphics like I think it was registered as a place of religious observance or something and they weren't allowed to fucking jdam it so they had to assault it and um and when and you've seen the pictures of what was inside that place man it wasn't a mosque. Well it might have been a mosque in in you know 200 yeah but it was it was a it was a cache it was a cache of a lot of shit and if they had have um been given authorisation to fucking drop something on it then I'm sure it would have you know it would have gone up and it would have been a mighty big explosion but um you know Beardy would have been here to tell the tale but unfortunately at the time and the the rules of engagement the rules on the ground at the time they weren't allowed to do that but to talk to answer your question about you know the taking of of life of enemy lives um lives um look man I I've had to do battle damage assessments of of areas after we've you know conducted operations in there and I've you know I've had to fire weapon systems to you know to take care of a job you know 40 millimeter fucking um 40 millimeter weapon systems 84 um you know I've I've yeah man it's and it's like yeah go in there and do a BDA and it's like yep no worries like that's this is what's happened and this is what we did and the reason why we did it okay move on you know like and that's and yeah we do have to take um a lot of the time we have to uh collect imagery of people who have been killed um I told you a story earlier in the day about that which I won't repeat but like part of that is um and that is for basically accountability purposes you know um did you engage yep um I you know I engaged this guy why did you engage him well he fired at me um we were patrolling and he fired at me with a a rifle behind an orchard um we returned fire we assaulted the position he was killed um here's the imagery this is the here's the eight figure grid reference this is what he had on him um take the photos and move on you know move on to the next objective you know we're not there to fucking collect them and bury them like they were in the Second World War and all that like we just move on and get on with the job. BDAs like when you've like you know some of the battle damage assessments like for instance that operation in Helmand in 2009 um after Ice uh lost his legs you know they they had to call the JTAX were working their ass off while we were down there during that period of time and if if permissible we would the the guys boys would be sent in to do a fucking BDA and if you've ever seen bodies after the they've been um uh experienced overpressure from those kind of munitions man it's not a very pretty sight yeah no you know you go in there and there's a fucking cat eating some guy's fucking brains it's fucking you know like and that's just the way it is you know yeah yeah yeah yeah and I wanted to bring up that question just because just to make it real and you know again for the civilian listener out there that hasn't experienced yeah you know the warfare and you know majority guys have taken life and that's it is part of the role you know if you're going into a an opposing country to assist with eradicating you know such enemy forces there's gonna be death and destruction you know that's that's part of the role. We're not over there to you know we're over there for a fucking job man and and it's a dirty like you know faith no more it's a dirty job and someone's got to do it. It is you know and um I remember having a conversation with one of the Padres um and it wasn't I didn't go and see him at the chapel or anything like that. I was just sitting there having a brew with him one day and we just got into a long conversation about you know mortality and you know he wanted to know like you know if what what do I do before I go out on a job um to sort of process things you know like do I did I have anything that I did to prepare myself you know what was my routine some guys had routine you know some guys love to go to the gym you know get a good pump on maybe go and give the missus a call you know have a brew um fuck some maybe go and have a crank or something I don't know like before they go out to the flight line whatever they do you know like guys had the different things you know to get ready to go out on the job some guys like I used to like going over my um you know my weapon systems you know that you go over my loadout make sure that everything was like you know my magazines like the you know the rounds were probably stacked in there and everything like that that was just my little funny you know I like to do that um guy other guys but I was talking to the padre and he and um you know he was a Catholic priest and I I and I'm I'm not Catholic but that doesn't mean I can't have a good conversation with him and and he said to me he goes you know my my observation having worked with military people for a long time and and he he'd been a British he'd been a bobby in the British police before he became a padre the British Army and then transferred over you know and he said to me he goes you know I don't think I think with soldiers you know and people that are in this kind of profession you really don't have a proper sort of outlook and understanding on really the gravity and what this is all about unless you've taken life preserved life and then when you go back home you've given life you know like you've become a parent become a dad you know like become a father because I those three things you know like you you you can take someone's life as a soldier um to preserve life whether that's one of your teammates or or a you know a civilian that's been wounded or whether you're running like a med a medcap or something like that and they bring I mean we did a medcap once where they bought in this little baby that they'd tried to cut its umbilical cord with a rusty fucking razor blade and it was bleeding out. And we basically like kept this little baby alive um and in order for it to be able to be stabilized to end up going to a facility where they could obviously control the bleeding properly but you know like so you tell that story like you know a bunch of special forces soldiers I've got the photos crowded around this little newborn Afghan little girl that you know being a little girl they probably wouldn't really give a shit if she lived or died but we were there trying to like control the bleeding get her blood pressure up because she'd have you know we're there to try and preserve the life you know um and then you know coming home and being a dad you know like and and it gives you that sort of holistic perspective on fucking on life you know it's not just about you know flying around in helicopters and fucking fucking shit up and killing the enemy it's it's more to that you know and and people that say that are military members or you know particularly um you know special forces soldiers or special operations soldiers are just like knuckle draggers and warmongers and all that yeah maybe sit down and talk to us and get to know us a little bit you know you'll find that you know there's some pretty fucking highly intelligent people who you know they might not have university degrees but yeah like you know there's some pretty pretty intelligent people and if you look at the percentages of the people that actually you know make it through to sets a special operations selection courses and end up serving if you look at the percentages against the population it's a pretty small cohort of people and it's not all based on physical prowess that's not even really like a big part of the job like so yeah man like you know it what I'm trying to say is like you know it you have to think you don't you have to like you know take your own mortality into into account everyone rolls the dice man you know like you you you could do that job for as long as you want man it's it it will catch up with you yeah yeah mate uh you know you just you know quickly wanted to I want to highlight you know like you said you know the the the crazy part about that culture or that part of the world is where you know a little girl they didn't you know like you said they probably didn't care if she lived or lived or died.

SPEAKER_03 3:32:54

No then you got fucking six or seven fucking hardened veterans, you know Australians warmongers at you know as the left would say uh you know hoping this little girl yeah is still alive to this day. Yeah look I mean I I don't know if she is or she isn't but I I hope she is but that's what I mean you you've got the hope yeah that she is you know and and again six or seven operators standing around hoping that she survives.

SPEAKER_01 3:33:20

Yeah and look mate I but then part of me also thinks if she did live and and and we're going back yeah how that life's gonna end. Yeah I mean she'd probably be doing the maths now man she'd probably be about 14 now she'd probably be married and have a few kids by now. That's a fucking terrible too and and I and you know what kind of life would she be living you know like you know you're not not even allowed to leave your house unless you're you know covered up from head to toe and sometimes you wish well not wish but like fuck maybe a life would have been better if she didn't have a life.

SPEAKER_03 3:33:53

Yeah yeah I mean that's it's that and that's the sad part about that part of the world.

SPEAKER_01 3:33:57

Yeah like it's it is and you've been there you've you've seen it you've lived it and and you know anyone who has been over there and I'm talking not I'm not talking about like D fat personnel that have been over on post at the embassy and cocktail parties at the fucking consulate every second night and all that and things which I facilitated many you know one fucking embassy contract you know but I'm talking about like you know the when you've actually been out in the fucking sticks out there and you see what the real world is like in Afghanistan in the fucking the the the rural areas like where you know and you see that life is fucking harsh there. It's a hard hard life for those people and there are no rights for women out there. There is no you know it's it's it's it's the rule of the power you know it's it's who's in power who's who has the might is in control and zero rights. Zero rights say no rights they fucking look in the wrong direction they get flogged yeah it's they do the wrong thing they'll get fucking stoned to death yeah 100% yeah you even if an accusation's made against them that's not there's no fucking like court of law like there's no it's like honour you know we're talking about oh well you've you've um you've betrayed my honour you know as as your father or you know and mate I've seen I've you know you would have I've seen young women that would have you know fucking acid thrown in their faces because for whatever reason they're sure might they're their um niqab might have fallen down um you know the a lot of the younger women like the younger girls they who might not be unmarried they would still when I was there they would still wear like um I guess you would call it like a version of a niqab um the burqa like the blue burqa was generally reserved for like you know um a lot of the time it was like women who were either married or um young women who you know were at home who were due to be married off but like I saw plenty of like you know we we go like young young girls who are like you know probably only like six seven eight years old that were starting to be made to wear the headscarf but not fully covering up their faces and then it gets to the point where it's like okay well where do they like when does it get to the point where it's enforced that if another man from another family happens to look at them or catch their gaze and their father takes that as a as an insult or an affront well I'm not gonna have a go at the bloke for looking at my daughter. I'm gonna take my daughter into the back bloody room of the compound and give her a touch up and pour some acid on her face for dishonouring me. I mean what's that it's hectic bro it's hectic it is it is and um it happens I mean you know I mean it happens that this this honor this fucking honor killings and all that happen in UK acid attacks. Yeah you know it's it's it's fuck yeah yeah Jesus Christ mate yeah it does get you angry and it almost makes makes you want to go back there and help these people again like that and that's the reason why we're there to help these fuck anyway don't get fucking pissed it makes me it it angers me when people want to do what's happening now they want to go back and and and they want to that that they've got the benefit of hindsight they've got the benefit of like you said sitting in their Chesterfield fucking in Canberra um you know reading reports that are 15 years old fucking fat colonel and cast judgment on the things that people did a fucking long time ago and you know talk about putting them in jail for the rest of their fucking life. You know it's like fuck you yeah you know it's a it's bullshit man. But anyway yeah yeah yeah go on forever fucking hell uh like we're segueing before into your next rotation obviously uh 2010 obviously you do a bit of a PSD yeah we've and we've spoken about this on other other um other podcasts how you basically look after the major generals and yeah yeah yeah yeah the pompers yeah oh no look mate that that guy he's uh that I looked after uh Ash Power a lot of the boys will know who I'm talking about um as far as for I'm concerned he's one of the good guys man he's he's still in no no no no he runs an RSL man down regional Victoria yeah like he's and he's he's he him and he's the good ones don't stay nah nah nah he he was they were still getting him to go up to Bungador and run like um uh strategic planning courses and stuff like that for the you know because he that you know he was that's his background but um nah he's out of it man and he's he's all about like you know he's he's about to open another little he's opening a little um museum in Wangarata off the Wangaratta RSL um shout out to Ash Power and his wife Norell we'll buy him to get him in the potty mate if you've got to connect I don't know whether he'd do it mate um well I mean if you travel down there I'm sure he'd be he'd love to show you his museum bring the bring the recording kit and yeah yeah well I'll I'll I'll make fast Eddie said you'd come on a potty yeah he I might be able to convince him into it no I'm sure he'd love to give you a fucking tour of the the museum that he's building man because it's unbelievable there's some great memorabilia in there he's gonna turn it into a uh speakeasy where there's no grog just that you can blokes can go in there there's a library you can go and get books and he's also turning the back area into a venue so if a veteran wants to go and get married there it's right on the back of the river and at Wangarata beautiful location he is a good mate he's a good and I'm sure you met a few fucking shit ones over there.

SPEAKER_03 3:39:41

Oh mate I'd I'd I'd I I'd especially in that PSD world because you're you're consumed within the embassies and it's like what we were talking about with the with the with the executive protection work on Civvy Street man.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:54

Like when you've got a good client and you're dealing with the client who might be like some like you know VIP celebrity and it's the middle management that make the job hard. Yeah because as security and it's the same in the military if you're a military PSD to a fucking three star general essentially you you are with him all the time like you're in the car with him you're taking him to his meals sometimes if he's unwell you're helping him with like medical treatment and whatnot. And um whereas they fucking they work their whole career to be an ADC or an MA to a fucking high ranking staff officer and then all of a sudden they're like who are these fucking like uncouth fucking shooters that are just hanging around the boss you know and calling him boss instead of sir and you know and and look man I like I got nothing against O's man. I I I consider a lot of O's from the unit that I keep in touch with as mates. Um but there are some fuckwits in the regular army man that fucking you know like yeah I I like officers who are just yeah it's like still right fucking whatever man like everyone's got a job to do. But if If just because you don't like me because I'm not wearing a name badge and my hair's a little bit long and I'm wearing fucking Solomon's instead of fucking Terra boots.

SPEAKER_02 3:41:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:41:12

Don't make my life fucking hard, man. I'm here to keep you fucking alive. Well, yeah, like I it's yeah, but anyway, it's another fucking yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:41:20

Yeah. It's yeah, it it's funny because it kind of reminds me of that, you know, that that that movie 38 hours when he goes, You're in my world now. Yeah. And that you know, that's you always wait for that scenario when shit rolls down, you'll be like for mate cunt. I'm here for you now. Yeah, 100%. If you listen to me, you're in my world. Yeah. Um yeah, right. So uh again, so you do this uh rotation PSD and then you come back and then deploy on SOTG 16, mate. So this is this is your last swing. Did you did you know this is gonna be your last look hurrah?

SPEAKER_01 3:41:50

I I did, yeah. I um I went into it. Um I I was lucky because I I was in the same team again, quit Quebec one. Um, but at that point I was the course line I was was Quebec 1 2. So I was like the the two IC of the senior team of the platoon. So the Quebec 1 1, who's the the fellow I'm telling you about, is my daughter's godfather. He he'd be off with the boss doing like planning and whatever. So then I'd step up and I'd um coordinate and run training for the platoon on so certain types of training. So like I did an advanced marksmanship course um shout out to Weeksy from SASR. He came over and legendary. Yeah, did a train the trainer and um it was basically the introduction to what he said, look, you take this and you implement it into your subunits how you wish. So I mean another guy, we packaged it and we basically caught it like combat application shooting, all right. So, you know, um the reason we caught it that was because like you know, we were shooting like reactive steel targetry, we were doing incorporating like you know, alternate fire. So basically, anyone can, you know, we can do validation shoots and whatnot, but at the time it was kind of the shooting the boys do in the unit now is like far surpasses what we were doing back then, but for us back then, it was kind of we were pushing the limits, and guys like Weeksy were giving us the the the foundation for us to then push it ourselves, and then obviously it's become standardised. But yeah, me and another bloke, we put together a package, and so I'd take the boys out of the range and run, you know, fucking crazy range shoots, and you know, if I had a fucking sly bottle of vodka that I'd got my hands on, I'd say if anyone can fucking take this out, you fucking get a bottle of vodka and yeah, like just fun stuff like that, you know. And and and so, but uh I'd unfortunately in doing so um I missed out on um getting my shot as uh the 4-1 or like the the the 4-1 team commander. I was that's where I was meant to go, and unfortunately another fella who couldn't decide whether he wanted to be a JTAC or a fucking assaulter, um decided that he wanted that position. So I stayed in um Quebec one and I stepped up as the one two. And so I did get a chance to you know to command uh on ops, but not for the whole trip, man. And that and that sort of disappointed me a little bit because it's like, yeah, look, you know, I've been in and out, in and out. Um so then what did I do? I put my discharge in when we got over there. Oh, did you? Yeah, so it was with effect like the week after I got back, and so I yeah, like we did we'll talk about the trip, but I did the trip, and then I had a job lined up to go back over there at the embassy.

SPEAKER_02 3:44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:39

On the D FAT game.

SPEAKER_02 3:44:41

So yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 3:44:42

Yeah, so that's it, yeah. Um SOTG 16. Again, we spoke about this a little bit earlier about moving into that DEA role. Again, I've had a whole bunch of dudes on Dave Parker, yeah, a few other boys, Muggerage, everyone's pretty much done that.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:56

Yeah, yeah. So you know you and the the listeners have hopefully, you know, probably heard enough about that. But I I mean, my summary, like for me, that was probably the most um fulfilling uh trip that I'd done because we were given pretty much like unbelievable access to assets, um, rotary wing package. Um fuck, man. Look, and we were just going out and we were doing these hits, and we were it was like tangi, there was a tangible effect that we had on the battle space. In fact, at the end of our rotation, um uh it was mentioned in Congress by Obama. Uh I think it it they they've calculated that during that period of time we had uh taken out 350 billion US dollars worth of fucking hell. Yeah, yeah, uh 350 billion US dollars worth of um uh essentially like drugs and heroin out of the fucking drug drug market for that period of time. Yeah. And it was briefed in Congress, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it's it's legit, you know, and obviously, like I don't know whether Dave met talked about Joe Pisante and uh he's been on the podcast about Joe on.

SPEAKER_03 3:46:08

Oh, did you? Oh, yeah. I had I had obviously had Parker on and then he spoke about Joe and then you know, dragging the big fucking bodybuilder Joe on. Can you connect me with Joe and had Joe on mate? Yeah, what a lovely guy he is.

SPEAKER_01 3:46:19

Yeah, amazing man, you know, and and like for him to just gentle giant, yeah, and to to keep you know involved in the way he was afterwards, you know. I mean it would be very easy for a guy like that to just go, oh fuck this, you know, and like but yeah, like an amazing inspirational person, man. And like, you know, that this is what I don't think that the like you know the the government realises when they're talking about guys like us that the the networking that we did, and not just the networking, but the people that we fought alongside and experienced these kind of things with, we've established connections internationally with these people that we maintain that will be enduring. 100% you know, regardless of what government is in power and and and you know, like you know, we were over there and whether it was right or wrong, or you know, however people want to, whatever lens they want to look into it, like we went over there and we ran the fucking ball up the line and and we got our government achieved high accolades based off the fucking work that we did. Because obviously, like you know, if the if the DEA's briefing the US president and then it's getting mentioned in Congress, they're gonna look at it and go, Oh, well, you know, they got that job done because the Australian Special Operations Task Group provided a force element to help them do it. Oh, you know, well done, K Rudd, or you know, fucking Julia Gillard, you know, like you've you know, you're contributing to the fucking war effort here, and yeah, and it's like they very quickly forget, you know, like Albanese's undone it all anyway. Oh mate, don't even get me fucking started on that fucking germ. I don't want to get my house raided, but like, yeah, man, I mean it's just it's a very you know, I mean, I said this the other day to a friend of mine, man, and you know, look, if I not that I fly Qantas very often, I certainly don't hang around the chairman's lounge, but like if I was at the airport and I ran into him just by chance, and you know, the at the bookstore or whatever at the airport, and I had a chance to have a chat to him, I would honestly say to him, you know, Mr. Albanese, I I I know you've been in government for a very long time, but I just want to ask you something. What have you actually sacrificed for our country? What have you what can you tell me what you personally have sacrificed for this country? You know, like I I you know, and I don't want to hear about time and you know, like because they're very handsomely fucking recomm you know, they're of course yeah, and I think, you know, where are these I think we're starting to see it now, like you know, you got Phil Thompson stepping up, and yeah. I don't really want to talk about hasty, but like, you know, you look back in the day after the Second World War, you know what I mean, and there were a lot of these like political states, like these, you know, Eisenhower and you know, that's an American political JFK even like a lot of these like you know, political statesmen were men that had served their country.

SPEAKER_03 3:49:15

99%. I think up until George Bush senior. Yeah, majority were big servicemen. That's right. Or cops or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 3:49:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. People that had had had been in the community or that, you know, served their community or their country or whatever. And they know what it's like to make a sacrifice, you know, not just in their personal life, but like, you know, for the for the the greater good of this country, like the uniform that you wear with the flag on the shoulder, you know. And I just think that, you know, there's not very many people that reside in the halls of fucking Canberra that fucking have a concept of that. Career politicians, yeah. And and it's just like, you know, I hate when I hear this, like, this this fucking word entitlements. Like it's just I I can't stand it, you know what I mean? Like, you know, parliamentary entitlements or travel entitlements and all this sort of thing. It's like what entitlements? You're not entitled or anything. Yeah. Wouldn't you say like um wouldn't you call it like a perk? Yeah. Or, you know, or a or a benefit associated with your role?

SPEAKER_03 3:50:15

Like why are you in why is it an entitlement? Like, um They're making it sound like because I'm a politician, I should have this.

SPEAKER_01 3:50:23

Well, yeah, I mean, and it's just like, you know, annual pay rises and it's to themselves. Yeah. And it's just, you know, mate, I'm like, I'm I'm out in the community, man. I'm I'm tied in with people that are out in the community that are doing it tough, man. You know, and they're really a lot of people are struggling, and you know people are. Yeah, and people are going to people are going to like, you know, churches for food banks and the salvos and all that. The people that can't even afford the who are working and trying to pay rent and put you know square meals on the table for their kids and they can't do it on their own. They need help. They need the ch you know, the food banks or the salvos or whatever to help the Sikh community are pretty big on. I've seen that there. Yeah, yeah, the the Indians, yeah. Yeah, they they help put meal packs for people, and that's not how it should be, man. You know, we live in a very resource-abundant country in the world. So, yeah, to answer your question to go back to the thing fucking Albanese. Um, oh look, man, I just hope to God that you know in the near future we we have some kind of massive shake up in our political system. I think we're seeing it now.

SPEAKER_03 3:51:30

We are, I think we we we're definitely seeing a change. And you know, we speak about the BRS stuff and Shulzy, and you'd see the forces uh people are starting to realize, and obviously after the whole petrol fucking disaster that we've had the last couple of weeks and just in general, mate, but definitely happening anyway. Back to your life and career. Uh SOTG 16 were talking about um DEA stuff, you're doing all that. How kinetic was this this trip? Pretty much it was hectic.

SPEAKER_01 3:52:00

It was crazy. Like, you know, and uh and you know, mate, we we were we were out regularly. Um, you know, we'd get the we'd get the intel and the uh orders would be spun up and we'd be out. And you know, the helo package would arrive. Um one of the uh one of the things that I enjoyed about that that trip was that um I was at like a designated ASO for the platoon. So like you know, counting the guys onto the back of the Chinook, um, counting them on, counting them off. So like, you know, first guy off the ramp, last guy onto the ramp, you know, um we'd be out in the sticks, we'd do the job, you know, I'd be calling in the birds, you know, with Strobe or fucking whatever. Like, you know, I'm you're calling in a fucking Chinook, man, and like it's yeah, it's a being in the middle of the dash and the Chinook coming in over the top of you, man. It's you can imagine what it'd be like being in a uh uh jelly baby in a fucking sandblasting box. It's like it's it's insane, but it was a good trip, man. We got out there, we did a lot of um noticeable uh tangible effect on the battlefield, man. Like destroying um heroin processing facilities, like you know, these the some of these facilities would have been like a cookhouse, you know what I mean? And they'd have like, you know, dozens and dozens of drums and like fire pits in the ground, and they'd have fire, big, huge piles of firewood. Now, firewood is very scarce, scarce to come by over in Afghanistan. It's it's it's like a very, very rare commodity. And for them to have tons of it, because that's where they're cooking up the smack, or they're the the refining the opium paste down into the morphine solution and that. Um, and then we go into these other places where they'd have these huge like um metallic sort of vats, and they'd have like railway sleepers with hydraulic presses, and uh they were using that to press the material down to make the the the base, and it like it it almost looked like I remember the first time I ever saw it, it it looked like almost like piles of just this sort of brown, dry sort of brick shit. Like it looked like and I was like, is it what is that? And they're like, Oh, that's the fucking morph that that's the the uh morphine base that's been pressed down. Um so we'd destroy that, you know, like we'd and and we'd have to you know carry in a fucking shitload of um uh explosives, um the the the the the Dems guys who were dedicated Dems for those tasks would would take in a variety of different charge charges, um, you know, ring mains, fucking um additional stuff so they could run, you know, line mains, whatever to just sort of destroy all this shit. Me personally, I I used to fucking carry the jerry can of fucking fuel in there. So I uh and I'd I'd be tasked with fucking um setting fire to the fucking fire piles of firewood. Um because we go into these places and like everything we would destroy everything. Like if we couldn't, because we weren't permitted to fucking call in an airstrike on it, so it was basically like leave nothing for these people. Like we're here to to get evidence, uh sample evidence. So the DEA guys would go if there was any kind of like you know, um, depending on the process of the heroin or the opium, they would get samples of it for collection, and then they'd hand over the site to us for complete destruction. So we had these charts the guy the one some of the boys came up with these charges, you might have heard of it, called the anal bead charges. Yeah, and they were designed to blow up the drums. So they were just like it was basically this big ring of um uh charges with the um the PE4. Um basically it looked like anal beads, not that I've handled anal beads, but like they came up with it. But yeah, so that it was designed so to be wrapped around these um collection of drums so that could be initially the drums were rendered useless, so they could no longer use them to cook the shit. Um the I mean we'd blow up, we'd find generators, we'd like and we'd blow up generators, we'd blow up bloody um that that there at one stage there were some fucking canoes that they were using to transport the stuff up and down the river. The the canoes were blown up. Um I'd I'd regularly carry in fucking jerry can full of fucking uh diesel fuel oil mixture, and um I'd set fire to the fucking big piles of firewood, you know, like and it just I'd I I'd my task once we'd secured the thing was like get rid of all that firewood. And we got some photos, like I don't know whether you know Mark Noble, the the cone knobber. Yeah, yeah. Me and Nobber standing there with uh this huge inferno behind us, and you can just see like the silhouettes, and I think I found a pitchfork or something, and I was like, you know, doing the whole like you know, Viking thing. But yeah, we'd we'd have to just and the reason we did destroy it was because if we didn't destroy it, they would go back and use it again. Reutilise, yeah. Yeah, you know, very hardy people, you know, and they whatever they can, they would use. And um, so to answer your question, yeah, man, that was a fucking full-on trip. Um, one particular job we did, uh we were stuck in this compound, and it's when I heard Scott Scotty telling his that story about um having a sleep and and the the turp was saying, Oh, he's got eyes on you. That exact same scenario happened to me on a job, and uh we were doing a job in helmet at a drug. I was trying to get a bit of sleep um during the day, and the bear came and said, mate, he's saying that he's he can see someone sleeping next to a pylon, like a pillar, um, and he's getting ready to take a shot. And the only person that was fucking doing that was me. And the boss is like, oh Eddie, I think you better move your fucking your location, mate. So I moved, and then next thing you know, we're receiving effective fire inside the compound. So, and I said to the the boss, because he was in there with us, said, Look, this cunt's just gonna keep fucking firing down at us all day. Like one of the other TLs copped a grazing round to the shoulder, good mate of mine. Uh, shout out to him, he's over in Jubai at the moment. Um, and I said, Look, these pricks are just gonna keep fucking firing down at us. Can we push out of the compound and go and like push into the green belt and start harassing this guy up? Because he was up in a like cliff, and the boss was kind of like, Oh, I don't know, like, you know, he's pretty accurate. This bloke, and in the end, he said, Yeah, all right, go for it. So me or the TL, me and another digger, we we did the Harold Holt under fire, like um through, and I had a um one of the guys had a 66, I had a 203 with a shitload of gold tops, and then one of the blokes had a um 417 with a Schmidt and Bender on it, and we just were like, Alright, well, where do we reckon this bloke is? And we just kept putting pressure up onto the area to try and stop him from firing down at us, and um, yeah, like it was it was it was crazy, man. It was like that was a hectic trip, man. Like it um did you get him? Well, he stopped firing, yeah. And I reckon the the TL fired the 66 up into the mountain, and and it like and I'm pretty sure he was like, Yeah, well, he stopped firing after I fired that up there, mate. It's like, yeah, sweet man, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:59:23

Um what sorry, what months were was that that rotation?

SPEAKER_01 3:59:27

Um I'm pretty sure it was from like June through till December.

SPEAKER_03 3:59:36

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 3:59:37

So this is uh May, May or June through December. Yeah. Fighting season, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:59:41

Yeah, obviously I wanted to bring up obviously May, 23rd of May.

SPEAKER_01 3:59:45

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:59:47

So Brett's killed.

SPEAKER_01 3:59:48

Yeah, wood dog. Well, that was um, yeah, that was leading up that we were down in um Coltana on the MRE when that happened.

SPEAKER_03 3:59:56

So you're back in Australia.

SPEAKER_01 3:59:57

Yeah, this we were doing our lead up training um in 2000, yeah. So um we were doing our MRE and um yeah, I they um so H was down there. Um you know who Hennessy. Yeah, Hennessy. H was down at Coltana and he he'd been tasked to come down to basically assist in the in the um MRE, like a the with the assessment piece. So um he'd come down and and um uh there was another fellow there, another old school tag guy, RJ, that was there, both of those guys, good mates with Wood Dog. Um and um there was a couple of us we we we'd done, I think we'd done it, we'd gone out and done one little hit out out in the village or whatever, and then we were back at the we were back at the because when you stay down there, it's in the fucking old detention facility. So we're staying at the the the prison farm or whatever you want to call it, and um we're back at the room and um H was there, RJ, me, um the TL, the one that I'll keep talking about, the my good mate, and um we were sitting around having sharing a bottle of Jack, the old crack Daniels, and um next thing you know, H's phone rang, man, and um and it was Elvie. It was it was it was Brett's wife, you know, and like and this is before anyone from command had been no like because and she'd basically like been notified, and the one of the first people she called was fucking H and he just happened to be in this room having a couple of like cheeky fucking crack Daniels with with with me and a couple of the boys, and and he just I could yeah, he goes, fuck, I've got to go. Like, and he just he'd literally just driven a hire car from the Adelaide airport out to uh a backstar. Um, and he's like, fuck, I've gotta go, I've got to get back to Sydney. Fucking, you know, fucking wood dog's been fucking killed. That was Elvie. And it's like, whoa, what the fucking's like, look, I can't talk, like you know, we because we were like, fuck, you know, what what happened? Like, you know, any information? Because we and um he's like, I I've gotta go. And like he literally like fucking legged it back to his room, grabbed his fucking bag, ran straight out the car park, got into the hire car and fucking drove straight back to fucking Adelaide airport to get the first flight he could back to Sydney. Um, and so then we were kind of sitting around the room, and I think by then the information had started filtering over there, obviously. Like the you know, regimental headquarters would have said, sent out a signal and made a couple of calls like look, you know, fucking Brett Wood's been KIA. Um, you know, the notification team's happening with the family at the moment, his wife's been notified. We you know, have to notify his fucking mother and father and blah, blah, blah. So then it was all pretty sort of guys knew something had gone down, and and but then they caught us all together and they said, Look, we've got an announcement to make. Um, unfortunately, fucking today during an operation, fucking Brettwood was KIA. Um, you know, he it and they, you know, they in the process, the families have been. Being notified. We just asked that, like, you know, guys, just you know, keep it in-house um out of respect for Brett's family. Um, we're gonna have a a cease. Well, we're we're we're putting a fucking kibosh on the on the MRE for the next 36 hours or whatever. Um, so you know, guys, if you you've got permission, if you want to go into town, um raise a glass for wood dog, um, you know, or you know, we're not doing any and and we did, you know, like we we we had to shuttle bus guys into the fucking uh into town and um you know there's like one decent bar and sports lounge with a couple of pool tables, and I think one of the blokes spoke to the bar, the the m bar manager and just said, Look, you know, we're obviously out here doing the training. We just found out one of our mates has been killed in Afghanistan, and the dude was cool as fuck. He's like, Oh, fuck, you know, go for it, boys. You know, look, you know, you hang here as long as you want. And yeah, we did, and and then, you know, look, more information came out, and then um, yeah, like we just sort of and then they were like, okay, guys, well, look, you know, we've got a job to do, we've got to fucking, you know, we've got to get on with the fucking MRE, because then we won't be able to deploy unless we've we've passed the you know the assessment that we're ready to go. So yeah, we did the MRE and um that was all and then we went back to Sydney and then we were we all took part in Brett's fucking you know repatriation and his funeral. Um the funeral at the cathedral at Town Hall. I don't know whether the boys have told you much about that, and it was a pretty interesting sermon. Um, yeah, I mean the fucking whoever he was, the archdeacon or whatever, you know, told us all that we had blood Brett's blood on our hands. And what do you mean? Oh, he was talking like metaphorically speaking, like Yeah, like how you know that the you know when the government makes a choice to go in and this happens that the people who elected the I don't know, man, whatever, but like it was just it was crazy, man. And then like, you know, we all look, you know, we and then we went out to Rookwood, and as you know, wood dog's buried in the Commonwealth fucking war grave section, you know, and there's uh the I think he's like the one of the only blokes to to to have been given that um honour, I guess, you know, I know and I know his family had to, you know, go through the channels in order for that to be done, but yeah, we all jumped on the buses and we followed the hearse out there, and um, you know, the the the the area where Brett's uh was laid to rest, um, you know, and he his coffin was lowered in there and we were all out there and we all went up and we grabbed a handful of dirt and threw it down on his casket, um, and then some flowers, and then yeah, he was he was basically like covered up, and then we all went back into town to the Paddington RSL on Oxford Street for his wake. But yeah, no, great that RSL's a great RSL, great venue in there, like um and yeah, we know and then and it was you know, a lot of guys caught up with a lot of guys that some guys we hadn't seen for a long time or got out and because you know Brett had had a had a career before he went to 4R. He'd been in the ready reserves, and and so there were a lot of guys he had a lot of friends in the military across the military. He's very, very popular bloke, man. Like, you know, he's he was a one of genuinely one of the fucking good guys, man. Like he was just the top bloke, pretty crazy behind the wheel.

SPEAKER_03 4:06:26

Yeah, well, I guess that leads on to uh a couple of stories you uh spoke about uh we spoke about at the coffee shop, which which I I love to share because this is you know, you we we hear about the death and the gloom and the fucking war stories, but there's there's the other side where you know it's one of those things you go, ask any Australian soldier and go, mate, I don't want to hear about your war stories, I want to hear about something fucking funny that's happened in Defense Force.

SPEAKER_01 4:06:50

Oh mate, there's so many fucking funny stories, bro. I wanted to write a book and I wanted to call it Monday morning at the mess. Because you know, that's when you go to work after the weekend, and at the breakfast everyone's telling their fucking stories on the weekend, and you hear, yeah. Oh, did you hear what he did? Yeah, yeah, Monday morning. Yeah, what a scumbag. Um, no, look, fucking Wood Dog, man. Like he um mate, he he Wooddog had an SS Commodore, right? Like that was his he loved that car. Um you'd hear him coming, and um, you know, and the thing with Brett, you know, like and I you know, I've spoken to his sister Shazzy, and uh, you know, I've talked to Elby a little bit, but Brett had a really fucking like cheeky grin, like and knew when he was up to no good, like he sort of had this like you know, and um mate, he you'd see him pull up into the parking lot in that car, and he just loved it, man. You know what I mean? Like, but you know the sound of an SS, man. It was a good car. And but Brett also loved fucking pushing the limits when it came to like military vehicles as well. Like, so the can't the the the SPs, like the the special purpose vehicles that we use on the tag. Um, yeah, the old school Nissan patrols and um the new, well, the new at the time, like the um top of the line fucking V8 land cruisers. Yeah, so Brett had a few interesting ones, but the one I was telling you and Scojo, and I'll repeat it now, it's just I've found this one to be very amusing. Was um so I'd I'd had I'd had the busted ankle, so I was I was working up, but this is I was working up at the um the magazine at Holesworthy, and that's where they, you know, that it's the main sort of um storage facility for the things that go bang and things that get fired out of weapons, um, you know, and that's where the the unit, I'm not gonna say where it is or whatever, but it's known, it's there, right? And I was up there because I was injured, I was up there helping the blokes who run the place, I was helping them do a bit of admin, right? Anyway, it's a secluded location. There's a driveway that goes up to it, it's in the middle of bush, but it's sort of been cleared out, it's a bitumen area, and all of a sudden I hear this fucking car come flying up the driveway off the ring road, and I was and the main road and the range road, and it's like, fuck, who's this coming up? And look out the door of the the magazine, and there's this Ford Falcon, grey Ford Falcon staff car that was the boss's, it was the platoon. Which is generally for the bosses always the grey ass here. Yeah, the grey fleet ones, you know. So here's fucking wood dog, you know, in his fucking flight suit, um, come flying up to the fucking magazine in the boss's car to get some more fucking explosives and ammunition. Yeah, I don't know. Like that's just kind of the way we rolled back then. It had to be, you know, you had to do what you had to do to get the keep the training going. And um he rolls in there and he does this like fucking handbrake fucking maneuver into the loading bay, and it's like, oh hey man, what's going on? And he gets out and he's like, What's going on, cunts? Uh yeah, I'm here to pick up that, you know, XY. And so we grab the stuff and and um anyway, we're loading it into the back for him, and and uh, you know, he's on the phone, I think it's the boss or whatever, like, you know, I need to hurry the fuck up, we need you back here with that gear or whatever. And he's like, he's like, Right, I'll catch you later, boys. And he's jumped in the car and he's got the window down and he's got his arm out the side. And have you ever seen those blokes on YouTube, that Mexican hoon, like the Victorian blokes, they've all got like Ford Falcon, it's a defence vehicle with a fucking defence force plate on it in a flight suit in a flight suit, and he's gonna do this like fucking like he's sped out and tried to do this like reverse like J turn manoeuvre, which we're trained to do, and uh we we do the training to do it, but um he normally when you do that kind of training, you do it in a skid pan and you get the fire extinguisher out with a fire hose out and wet the ground up a bit. So he's tried to do not in the boss's vehicle, no, not in the boss's vehicle with boxes of fucking ammunition in the back of it, and he's fucking flipped it around. And he's as he's float flipped it around, he's he slammed into this yellow bollard, and they because they've got these bollards there to stop people like driving trucks into the joint or whatever, and he slammed into the he slammed the back end of this falcon straight into the back of this bollard, just smashed the whole back end of the boss's car up.

SPEAKER_02 4:11:18

Just like, oh fuck.

SPEAKER_01 4:11:20

Anyway, he's like got out and he's having a look at it, and he's like, oh fuck. And then I'm like, mate, you better call the boss, you better let him know because the MPs out on Holesworthy, like they'll they used to like you know, patrol around, particularly anywhere where the tag was hanging around, because you know, they'd know the boys would be driving the SP vehicles, you know, maybe fracturing the speed limit a little bit. But I'm like, mate, if you you know, if you're driving around in this beat beat up fucking thing with ammo in the back, the MPs are gonna have a field day. So anyway, like yeah, he was sheepishly drove off in this thing, and it was yeah, it was all taken care of. But yeah, that was to witness that was um yeah, was was priceless, man. Yeah. And then the other one, when I when I saw it, we were down at the Oran Park Motor Raceway before they ripped it up, and um, we used to go down there to do fast driver training, and we were down there and um most of us went down there in the coasters, the the the white fleet buses, and the guys that were doing the training, they drove the SP vehicles down there, the the land cruisers, but Wooddog took his SS down there because yeah, he can't can't pass up a free opportunity to get the SS out on the race track, and so we stopped for lunch, and everyone's like, you know, taking their body armour off and their helmet and they're you know, uh, you know, having a sandwich and a bottle of water or whatever, and next thing you know we hear this SS fire up, and uh next you know, you know, Brett's got the motorbike helmet on because you've got to wear when you're doing fast driver training, you've got to wear like um motorbike, yeah, full face helmets and for safety in case you have a rollover. So you know, Wood Dog's got his flight suit on and the fucking motorbike helmet in his civilian SS Commodore on the Oran Park raceway, and he's just gone out and just started cutting laps, cold tires, and like the first lap, he was like, you know, he's giving it to it, but he was kind of like, oh, you know, he's just getting stuck, you know, he's warming up, and and then he like you could hear him like start giving it some herbs, like you know, just dropping the foot down, and um we're watching him and everyone's laughing because you just you see this fucking SS flying around the track, but then as he's come around one of the corners, we're like, oh shit, he's going a bit too hot into that one because his brakes, like you know, he's having a fucking brakes. Yeah, standard vehicle brakes. Anyway, he's he's overshot the fucking corner, going flying out into the grass. And um, anyway, he's got out and he's like, Oh, can you fucking bring an S SP down and tow me out? So we had to go and tow him out of the grass. But yeah, no, he was a good he mate, he was a Larrican and um mate, he was a fucking outstanding soldier, man. Like um, cruelly, like you know, everyone's a good bloke when they die, you know. Everyone speaks so highly of people when they pass away, but he genuinely was a fucking outstanding individual, man. Yeah, yeah, big loss to the big loss to the country too, man.

SPEAKER_03 4:14:13

You know, like yeah, that's that's the big thing, isn't it? It's not just to his family and friends, it's a big loss to the country, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:14:20

Yeah, man, that's true. Yeah, mate.

SPEAKER_03 4:14:24

So it's so that's the 2011 period, mate. As you said, you've already put your discharge in. Yeah, that's you fucking decided that you leave, you know. This is again, this is your last trip to Afghanistan, you get back to Australia, you realise you are getting out of the defence force. What's that gotta be like? You're you're performing at a tier one level, you've lost a whole bunch of dudes. Like this is 2011, so there's still fucking more deaths to come. Um, but that that's the reality of it. And um how did you go? Again, just completely obviously in in some what, some way, you're disgruntled in a way.

SPEAKER_01 4:15:01

Because I was. I the reason I got out, Maddie, was because my marriage was on the rocks. Um in that period of time, I also had two young kids. Yeah, become a dad for the first time and and then roggered up and had another one. So is that before your SOTG rotation? Uh well I was after rotation five. So come back from five. At the end of 08, my oldest one was born. So you've got kids during this time. Yeah, yeah, and then and then coming back, playing dad, being on the tag, you know, this, and then going away again, coming back, um leaving, leaving again, leaving m my wife at the time with a two-year-old and a newborn baby, and then going over again. And I never I never tapped, I never put my hand up and said, Look, it's a bit hu tough on the home front. I need to, you know, go and work at the queue store for six months or whatever. And look, no offense to people who do that, but it, but I was there to do my fucking job, you know, and like and I did do it at uh saying a scroll early, you know, like you've got to put in on the home front, man, you know, like and and because otherwise it it'll fall apart. And and it started to happen for me, and I and I I did go to the command and I said, look, is there any chance after this trip that I can take a year's leave without pay or six months' leave on half pay? Um, because I did have a couple of options on Civvy Street that I I could have transitioned and maybe stayed on the books as a Choco, you know, and like but because I'm like, you know, look, I've I've got obligations on the home front now. I've I've got to I've put in here, I've got to start putting in back there, unfortunately, no. And so I'm not the kind of guy that fucking like you know makes false threats or whatever, and I just said, well, I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to fucking go and I'll put my D in. And and then the kind of thing which morally is it a unit unit level or is that schema level? No, unit level, yeah, yeah, yeah. And um, and then they came back with a and not that wasn't my motivation, they came back with like a counter um, I guess you could call it an offer. But for me, um I I'm not gonna say the damage was done because to me I looked at it was like, you know, it's just the game. It's just the game, you know, this is the this is what we're in at the moment. And so to me, my justification for getting out and to then go and work on the fucking embassy security contract at um back at the Aussie embassy in Kabul was I'm going to go into a contract role where I'm gonna be doing two months on, one month off. Guaranteed one month to do whatever you want. Yeah. So four solid months off in the year, I can get an element of control back in my life. Like, yeah, I'm gonna be back over there. I'm not gonna be like, you know, humping in the fucking boonies of fucking Helmand and carrying a fucking, you know, rifle on my back or whatever. I'm gonna be driving government personnel meetings, yeah, yeah. Theoretically safer, and you know, we all know what happened at the Heatle Hotel. But um, yeah, and and for my wife at the time, like she um thought, well, yeah, this could be this could be good, you know, like maybe this would we could fix this up, you know, and and look, it was a band-aid solution. Um and then yeah, like obviously I stuck that out for a while, and then I got to the point where I was like, you know, I fuck this. I I I'm sick of this fucking I'm sick of this fucking line of work where I'm carrying a gun for a living. And I'm like, even though I look back on it now and I I've got no regrets, man, but at the time I just had a lot going on in my personal life. I probably was suffering at that time too from like symptoms of um complex PTSD, which I didn't know about because still operating in a high threat environment, I was able to use that to my advantage. The hypervigilance, you know, like I, you know, we've been out on the road. Um, you know, I I I could I could mask, I could, I could fly under the radar, so to speak, in that environment. Um, yeah, we were drinking, you know, we we would get on the beers of a nighttime, whatever, but we're still doing the job. So anyway, I made a decision to quit. And uh the story as it goes, and people know this that know me, that I put in my resignation. Um, and I put in my resignation, it was like the week, uh, it was like it was like the second week of June. And I'm like, yeah, look, I'm done. I'm at the end of my contract, I want to go home. It's my birthday on the 26th. I want to be home for my my birthday with my my kids and that. Anyway, um, put in my resignation, handed in all my shit, um, flew out of Kabul, got to Jabai. For whatever reason, there was some kind of delay. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I got held over for 24 hours, I think. By the time I got home, it was the essentially the morning of the 22nd. Um, and I'd I was fried, I was tired, I'd been flying, flying back, you know, and and I didn't get the business upgrade on the way back, so I was fucked. Um got home, literally, oh yeah, my bags got lost, so then I had to go through that whole process of like, you know, um dealing with the airport to for them to find them and then ship them back to my house for me, like career them to me. So by the time I got home and you know, saw my kids and and you know, caught up with, you know, my wife at the time and and you know, made a few phone calls to family and whatever. By that stage it was sort of like going into the evening. And um I was at the time I was at my um uh family member's house and um my phone rang and it was H. It was it was Hennessy, like it was Wes calling me from over. He was over there on a like a 12-month um uh coin. Like it was he was doing some kind of advisory role over there, and like I'd caught up with him beforehand. Um, he'd come over to the Heatle Hotel with us and had a couple of beverages one night, and he knew the project manager there from one RR days and whatever, and so you know, we'd all caught up. And he goes, Hey man, I look, I can't talk. Um, just listen, okay? Just fucking listen to what I'm telling you. He he goes, Charlie Bravo, K I A. And I was just like, Oh, what? Are you fucking serious? He's like, Yeah, man, I'm serious. I can't talk, I've got to go. I'll give you a call when I can, and that was it. Now, we we had a bit of a uh there was a there was a bit of a thing back in the day, like where it on the tag, like a couple of the boys like would call each other like you know, um uh so Eddie Robertson, like, you know, Echo Romeo, you know, or you know, or fucking Alpha Mike or you know, Dave Parker, Delta Papa, you know, it was just like the phonetic nickname nickname. So when he said Charlie Bravo, can Bed, you know what I mean? And I was like, fuck, you know, like because Betty was my you know, one of my best mates, my my youngest daughter's godfather. Um, prior to that for you know, he'd we'd he'd been at the baptism of my daughter, um, and uh, you know, all of us, like, you know, Hennessy, fucking other names that I've mentioned, you know, we all celebrated after that at my house in Camden in the backyard. Like we had a, you know, not a shindig, but we had beers and catering, and we went afterwards after she was baptized, we went back to my house and we all celebrated together, you know. So we all know it, we all knew each other, not just from the work, you know, at the unit. So I got that call, man, and like I just sort of gone off from being on a massive high. Like, you know, look, I've I'm walking away from this line of work, I've got another job lined up, I'm you know, gonna be home, I'm gonna, you know, I've tried my hand at this, but this I haven't really fixed the problem. But it's I'm I've I've got things lined up and I'm gonna, you know, gonna get my personal life on track and all that. And things were looking good, and then I got that phone call, man, and it was just kind of like fuck, like, you know, it's just fucking kicking the guts, man, like massive. Um, and then that just commenced a fucking whirlwind, like, you know, I got in the car, went back to my house, jumped on the internet, booked a flight the next morning up to Cool and Gatta, where a couple of the boys from the unit who'd gone up there on the notification team with Cam's for parents. Um, I linked up with them. Um, you know, like Cam's Cam's mum and dad had had had been in a barbecue at my house like not that long before that all happened. You know, I've got the photos of us all in the backyard, like Cam the scumbag with the fucking one of them 1.5 litre gym beam and cola bottles, like, you know, just drinking it straight out of the bottle, a gym beam long neck, you know, like but we were all we all used to go and have a bit of a celebration there, you know. So we were all tight, you know, family. Um his his family, his dad and brother and mum, I consider part of my family. And we j we certainly did become a lot closer throughout that period of time because, you know, like the boys that were there who knew Cam and served with him, but they were there in an official function. So there was limitations to what they could talk to the parents about without whereas I was in a privileged position where I was out like and I had a direct line to fucking people over in Afghanistan. Um Ian Turner called me. Ian Turner called me from fucking TK when he found out that I was on the scene up there, and he goes, Look, mate, we're sending back some of Beattie's gear with his fucking body. I know you're doing a fucking tough job, but you know, you're a fucking hard cunt, mate. Just hold it together for Beattie and his family, because he'd do it for you. And I knew that because you know, I w I was a bit fucking it it did throw me for a fucking Six bro, you know what I mean? Like, I'd you know, when you you get you come home and you're on a high, and then you get a call that your best mate's been killed in a gunfight, and it's like, oh fuck, like and I had a bit of guilt too because I was like, I should have been over with Bravo. You know, I I got out to fix my marriage and I went and worked on the embassy contract, and I I was able to survive's guilt. Well, no, I just felt like I I kind of like I couldn't have changed the outcome on the battlefield that day, but I felt I should have been over there with the boys, you know what I mean, when that happened. I should have I but then I had to come to terms with that and go, you know, like I had to move on with my life, and so my way of making up for that was to to do what I could to help the family, and um, and I I didn't do it for any praise or anything like that. I I I like to do things behind the scenes like a lot of the time with things like that, and so yeah, I did what I could, man, and um we all did what we could to sort of lessen the fucking impact as much as we could on his and a lot of people don't know, like Cam was very close to his brother Brendan, and um not long before that happened, Brendan had lost his wife to cancer, the mother of his two young sons, and Cam's nephews. So, you know, that that family had been through quite a lot of grief, you know. Like Brent Brendan was raising two young boys on his own, um, then he loses his brother, who was you know very close to, and you all know the history of Cam, you know, like and could have gone all the way with the fucking AFL, and you know, he was just a fucking hard charger, and you know, just a genuinely fucking good, good person, and everyone sort of gravitated towards him. And um and you know, Cam's final gift, I guess, to his brother um that he could do to help him, and it was never about it was he bequeathed his whole estate to his brother so his brother could you know not struggle as a single dad. And you know, Cam was a smart motherfucking man. Like when we came back from team and we're all buying Commodores and fucking you know, Harleys and whatever, Cam bought a fucking canal property, water waterfront property in fucking the Gold Coast. He got he was getting into property investment early, and you know, and so he was able to, you know, not that he'd planned it, but like, you know, to help his brother out and and make sure that his brother then was able to have a good life with his nephews and yeah, so you know, a lot of the public don't hear these kind of background stories, man. You know, like you know, and this um person that a lot of people would just look at him and see him as a picture on a on a stamp or a um, you know, that flashes on a fucking news story or whatever, but you know, these people are the people that you know have died in the service of our nation, um, regardless of the right and wrong of it, or what what whatever you you know, they're serving the country, someone's got to do it.

SPEAKER_04 4:27:59

You know, exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 4:28:00

Yeah, and people should hear their stories and they should hear 100%.

SPEAKER_03 4:28:04

Yeah, and that's the whole point of these podcasts. 100% and you know, for you to be that close to bed as well, you know, it's it's good to share those yeah, yeah, like the wood stories, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:28:15

You know, I mean, and like, you know, there's a hundred other guys that could tell a hundred better stories about Wood Dog than I could, but I was there for some funny stuff, man, and and I'm I was I was you know, I consider myself privileged to be able to consider Brett a a good mate. And like I said, you know, when he when I got that little bit of paper and I was in a bit of a strange spot, and he just came up to me and he just like you know shook my hand and said, you know, good job, cunt, you know, good on you, man. Like that's all I needed. And and so, you know, after everything happened with Cam, um, and like as I said, turns sent, he goes, We're sending some of his gear back, man. You know, you know, you know, you know what to do. Um, and so, you know, we didn't, we didn't want it was a very like I was lucky because Brett Cam's brother Brendan, he's a he's a no-nonsense kind of guy like Cam. You can talk to him straight. His dad, Doug, very understanding man, you know, like very kind and caring, compassionate. But at the end of the day, he's a father, that's his son, you know, and his mum Kay, like, she's the same. Like, so certain things that we needed to convey to the family, we go through Brendan, you know what I mean, and we like, look, you know, these fucking people from you know, DCO or whatever, you know, they're gonna want to talk about, you know, how we're gonna dress Cam and you know, like whether he's gonna be in his ceremonial fucking outfit and whatever, or I'm like, listen, man, we've decided that you know Cam would want to fucking go out in his fucking because you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:29:42

I mean you that's the you know, you know, I've I think I've spoken about this before. This is you know, the the families, you know, they know their their son, their brother, yeah. The boys know Cam.

SPEAKER_01 4:29:51

Yeah, well the person that he's evolved is involved into or become the warrior, you know, like then that's who he was. And so, you know, and um in a lot of you know ancient cultures and that, you know, like when a warrior dies, like his, you know, the family are shown, but they they're the ones that send him off, you know. And yeah, so you know, the when the when they came back and we met at the ramp ceremony at Richmond, and I got uh Cam had a model T. Did you hear about his hot rod? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I I had I had to get the fucking hot rod out of storage and take it to some fucking mechanic in Camden to get it roadworthied. And so here's me like coming back from fucking contract, fucking running in the red line, like trying to get roadworthy certificates, drinking half a case of piss every night just to fucking stop, you know, go to sleep and chillax a little bit if I, you know, juggle two young kids, marriage on the rocks, yeah. You know, and I but look, don't I was in the zone and I was doing what I had to do, you know. And um anyway, we got the hot rod out of the ramp ceremony, and Dave Parker tells a story he's like, you know, man, when we we came out to form the like honor guard as he's as the hearse was, and I followed the hearse, we got the green light from Richmond all the way to the coroner's office in at Glebe. And so I followed the hearse in the hot rod, and as as the hearse is coming out, like and all the boys are standing there, you know, as the honor guard on there fucking in the hot rod, the tea bucket, revving the engine, like Dave Parker, like he he loves telling the story. He goes, mate, a big smile just came over my face, man. I thought, yeah, fucking oath, Betty. Like, this is what he'd want. And um, yeah, so like you know, we we got him to the coroner's and um and then obviously we had like unit memorial and then flown up to have the actual funeral service up in um Reedy Creek Baptist Church up on the Gold Coast. And um before that, man, we had to like figure out like, you know, well, how are we gonna set him up for his final journey, you know what I mean? Like um uh, you know, i.e. dress him and and set him up. So me and a couple of the other boys, like we got the care package, well, the care pack, we got the package sent from turns and the boys from Romeo Plato, they sent it over to us, and um it was a Metallica t-shirt, a cut-off metallica tank top, a pair of his multi-cam uh combat pants, a pair of his fucking combat boots, and uh, and that was it, man. You know, that's how we dressed him in his fucking coffin. Um, I put a little miniature bottle of fucking Bunderberg rum in there and um uh for his fine, you know, just tucked it in a little pocket, and um yeah, man, and we had to like the three of us, like the the the guy from the the funeral home that sort of explained to us, like, you know, look, there's a process that you can do to make this easy and I'll I can help you. And we were like, yeah, look, you know, we'll we'll we'll take care of it, man. Like we, you know, we can we can handle this, you know. And um uh I think the one of the fellas that was there, he he he knows who he he said, look, you've got a a sound system in this room, you know, it's a funeral home. Do you mind if we put on some music while we're doing this? Yeah, metallic on it. Yeah, yeah, we had the ACDC fucking crank in, and there's the three of us, you know, trying to fucking get Cam dressed up, and we did. Um the the hardest thing was trying to get his fucking boots on him, man, you know what I mean? Because like we had to like undo all the laces and then get him on, and you know, whatever. But like look, it's I look at it as your body's just a vessel, man. You know what I mean? Yeah, but but it for the family, it's important to know that you know we set him up the way he wanted to go out, you know. Like he put them in.

SPEAKER_04 4:33:41

What about the bloke working there? He would have walked down and gone, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 4:33:44

Yeah, who are these people doing? I'd like to be dressed in. Yeah, and I'd stopped at a bottle on the way, and I'd had like, you know, when you used to be able to buy the three-pack of VB long necks, because V Bertie loved VB long necks, right? So I'd stopped at the bottle and grabbed like a three-pack of VB long necks. So we had one each with his music going, and and he's just come in and gone, oh yeah, no worries. And he's probably walked out going, who the fuck are these people? But we got it done, we got him set up, and then yeah, obviously the next day we we had his his actual funeral, and um it was stipulated plain and clear, no politicians, no politicians. Um so you know, we had um obviously the defence chiefs were there and that, but there was no no one from Canberra was there, man. Yeah. Good. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, look, it yeah, it's it just he wasn't the kind of guy that you would have uh a PR opportunity, you know, like at the at the you know, I'm not and I and the guys that have had funerals where that those people have been invited and welcomed by the families, that's great, you know, and I families handle it however they need to handle it, but for Bertie, no, like it wasn't yeah, it was just like nut, like at the request of the family and friends, um, no political figures to be in attendance, and that was it, you know. So, yeah, and uh me and Bushy, we followed after the funeral the the boys he was carried out of the church to Hell's Bells. I don't know what you've seen, yeah, yeah. And the padre actually chose that song. We were sitting around, he yeah, the the one I was telling about, the Irish guy, he's like, I've always actually been a fan of Hell's Bells. And I thought you'll love this story, I've got to tell this real quick, man. And like, so the RSM at the time, so I've flown up on my own volition, right? And you know, I was so I'm staying with the guys that are up there on official duty at a service department that the units put on or DCOs put on. So I'm there, right, and I'm going to these meetings with the family, and and they're you know, when the will was delivered and read, like, and Brendan, for example, he didn't understand it. I said, mate, he's he's left everything to you, man. Like everything goes to you. And he broke down, he's like, he goes, Oh, I I don't know, I you know, he I can't believe he's done this for me, you know. Like, because he knew Cameron knew that he Brendan was living a tough life, you know, and that's what he did for his brother. Um, so I'm bouncing around and all that anyway. We decided we sat down with the padre and Cam's parents and decided the order of service. And Cam's favourite song was Thunderstruck, and so that had to be included in the sorry, that had to be included. Um shit, I know we're going pretty long. No, no, no. Um, and uh, so anyway, we've sent the information back down. Look, the RSM wanted, like not oversight, but he just wanted SA on what was going on, and it's like, yeah, we made the decisions on the songs. Anyway, next thing you know, the RSM's on the phone of the two boys that I'm with who are there on official duties, and like, look, yeah, just put me on speaker. I just um I just want to have a chat to you guys about the the lyrics of one of the song selections that's to be played at Cam's funeral. Um, and I've I've actually like I've highlighted the uh the lyrics in question, and it was like thunderstruck, like and it's like you know, the thunder of guns that tore me apart. And he's like, I don't know whether or not that should be appropriate considering you know the circumstances in which Cam died, you know, he was it killed in a gunfight, and um I was like, nah, nah, and then and then the line where um we went to Texas, we met some girls, some dancers that showed us a good time. Like that look, I can understand the RSM. He was trying to like, he probably thought he was like, and we're just like, nah, fuck, who cares, man? Like, you know, it's gonna get played, so fuck it. Some dancers who showed us a good time.

SPEAKER_02 4:37:42

Classic, mate.

SPEAKER_01 4:37:43

It was, mate, it was, but it just the irony of it, like, you know, you got the RSM down in Sydney on the phone, and he's trying to like do the right thing and be respectful to the family, and he's like, Oh, you know, maybe the parents wouldn't like those lyrics. It's like they don't give a fuck. No, they they want the boys there and they want their son to get a good send off, and that's what it was all about, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:38:03

Yeah, so mate, that's awesome. That's uh yeah, and that's um I guess that that you know that kind of leads to the end that that is the end of Afghanistan. That was literally the end of Afghanistan, really, for SATG.

SPEAKER_01 4:38:19

It was for the task group. I mean, obviously, um we did have another, we had Chids, unfortunately. Yeah, of course, yeah. He passed away, and I I won't I out of respect for his family, I'm not gonna I won't talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 4:38:31

But yeah, Shane Cav spoke about it. Yeah, yeah, no, and she was there.

SPEAKER_01 4:38:36

Yeah, and look, I I didn't know Chids perf personally. I knew him in passing, but you know, I mean, but for with regards to, and you know, that we've I'm not into numerology, but like people like you know, the 40th and the 100th VC and 4100 and all this sort of you know, and it's like numbers, you know, at the end of the day he was a he was our mate, and um yeah, he went out he went out the way he probably wanted to go out, man. Said it before with a hot weapon in his hand, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 4:39:04

Like yeah, yeah, mate taking the fight to the enemy, yeah. Yeah, mate, it's uh yeah. That's the scenario that's uh you know played out over the last, you know, uh that whole GWAP period, you know, we've lost you know a good 2,000 to you know suicide, so it's um and it's not it's not ending anytime soon, is it? No, well, and that and that'll sad fact.

SPEAKER_01 4:39:27

Yeah, and that segues into, you know, I guess how we'll probably finish this thing talking about mental health management, and I guess, you know, for me at that period of time, you know, I was certainly running in the fucking red line and um hard. It's a marriage breakdown, yeah. Well, that hadn't come at that stage. I was still fucking still trying to salvage.

SPEAKER_03 4:39:50

Which is probably a worst thing too because you yeah, you're trying to salvage, but it's not working, and it's just yeah, look it it, you know, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:39:57

We've all been there, yeah. We've all been there, mate.

SPEAKER_03 4:39:59

So we all know the the feelings that go through something like this, especially when uh children are involved. A hundred percent, mate. That's probably the worst part, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:40:07

And look, mate, I you know, I'm I'm so blessed now that you know, like I've you know, I've got two teenage children and um I'm at a you know, I can talk to them and they understand me, and they they don't, you know, they they don't they've said to me, you know, like we we do remember times, dad, when you were like, you know, you're a bit full on to like, you know, be around, but we understand that, you know, like because they knew Uncle Cam. You know, they knew, you know, like they they knew um, you know, friends of mine, and you know, they'd they and they're and they're old enough now that they can do their own fucking research. And like I am on the fucking internet, man. I've been I'm not I haven't been like I said, I made the decision to give up my protected identity status when I did Australian story for Cam, you know, to get his story out there and and you know, like you know, I've got nothing to hide, I'll tell the story, you know. Fucking if cunt's want to fucking come and have a go at me. You've got another four or five hours now, let's see, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 4:41:04

But that's this is more they can hear more about your life.

SPEAKER_01 4:41:07

Yeah, 100%, man. And look, you know, it's and and to tie it into like you know, how he can use this story to benefit other people, um, particularly the mental health piece, because you know, we we as men, you know, we're getting a lot better, you know what I mean? Like when I joined first joined the army, and I don't want to sound like some kind of old sweat, but like Blakes just didn't talk about that kind of stuff, you know. Like if a Blake was having dramas on the home front, you might see him pull up to the to the fucking transit lines with a suitcase in the middle of the night, and you're like, wait a minute, that's fucking Johnny. Like it I thought he was married and living at the grove, and it's like, well no, like he's he's his marriage is on the rocks and he's living in the lines now, you know, and it wasn't spoken really spoken about, you know, and yeah, the bloke might be at work fucking be turning into a bit of an asshole for a while, and you're kind of wondering why, and then you realise that his missus has taken off with the kids to the other side of the country or something, you know, and and you know, as blokes, we've got to fucking look out for each other, you know, because women are great at supporting each other, they love to talk and have coffee and and girlfriends and all that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 4:42:15

Blokes, I think we're getting better, you know, and we are yeah definitely, definitely but you've got to also look at military guys as well, you know. And I I'm probably more target military guys because you know, what what job do you go somewhere overseas, your mates killed, come back, or and like your your mates killed, for example, they'll go back to Worsley, yeah. You've got to go straight back onto another job. There's no, you know, most other jobs around the world, you can there's a decompression period and blah blah blah. You're straight out another job, and then you know, a year later, bang, same thing. Someone else is dead. Yeah, straight out another job. Like you're taught to move on a hundred percent. Instantaneously move on.

SPEAKER_01 4:42:58

And that's un look, it you have to do it, yeah. You have to do it in that line of work, in that time and period, yep, for sure. And you gotta do it to keep to keep going and to get started. But we know for a fact it comes back, it comes back. This is it's it's a fucking it is, and it and it's and it's an insidious thing, man. And and and you know, like it when people feel that that they can't talk about it if they are having problems, then it becomes suppressed and it gets even worse. And mate, I you know, I've the number of times I've received a fucking text or a phone call in the middle of the night when some mate of mine or some dude I know that has made the awful decision to take his own life because the pressure of what he's experiencing seems insurmountable to him at the time. And mate, I've been in that position where I've I've I've had a shit, you know, like everything in my life just seemed to have fallen apart at the one time, and I've thought, fucking hell, like, you know, what's the point of this? Like, you know, I like you know, I everything's just fucking like, you know, and yeah, you I'm not playing the victim, but you're kind of like, fuck, you know, like I've you know, what why is this going on all at once? You know, like you know, I've I've fucked up my life that badly. I thought I was doing a pretty good job, and it's just fucking turned to shit, you know, and but like when a guy gets to a point where he shuts down and he's not even prepared to talk to his mates or mention it, and then next thing you know, he isolates himself, and then you know, it's it's a tragedy, man, because especially in our community, like you know, military law enforcement, you know, you've got these young, robust men who put their life on the line to do this job, they're proud of what they do. Unfortunately, the way society is now, like, you know, they they don't want you to be proud of being a fucking alpha mount, like a soldier or someone that stood up for your c community or your beliefs or kept the community safe being a cop or whatever. Like it's it's almost like they're trying to fucking de demasculinise the fucking society. They are and it's a j it's bullshit, man. It's like it's a fucking joke. It's like, you know, we need strong men in our fucking communities and in our society to fucking keep and we need strong women as well, but like we need strong men with morals and fucking ambition and and pride to fucking steer the community in the right direction, a society in the right direction, you know. Otherwise we just fucking degenerate into this fucking whatever it is that's going on, you know, and and I truly believe, and you said it before, like after this, I think we're experiencing a fucking pendulum switch shift, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like there's a there's a s the pendulum starting to switch the other way now. And and I know maybe we're flattering ourselves by saying so, but I truly believe that whole thing with the BRS um arrest leading up to Anzac Day has awake awoken. People are sick of it. Yeah, not just the veteran community, in in general, yeah, in general, Australians, yeah, citizens, Aussies, you know, and I you know, and you're seeing that with these, you know, I was in Canberra on the weekend at you know, on Saturday at that at that um protest at Parliament House. That's just one, you know, like but there's all these you're starting to see these, you know, people and saying, you know, enough of them.

SPEAKER_03 4:46:20

Yeah, even Jimmy Grants or immigrants, you know, like this they come here to live a better life, and a lot of them do, you know. I'm I'm I'm a you know my mother's an immigrant. Yeah, she came here for a better life, and even the they're sick of it. They're like, I come here for a better life, and it's I'd rather go back to fucking where I come from because it's it's a better place, you know what I mean? Like we're we're turning into such a fragile fucking place here in Australia, and that's not what we are, we're not fragile fucking human beings.

SPEAKER_01 4:46:48

No, no, a hundred percent, man. And and and that's the thing, and and you know, like my message to my message to any young bloke, you know, any young veteran, you know, or ex cop or fucking whatever, you know, like be proud of your service, man. 100%. You know, like Like you don't need to, you know, wear a olive drab ribbon over your medals and you know, like be proud of what you've done. Don't let anyone take that away from you. You know what I mean? Like they can't take that away from you. You know, they they can try. They can try and, you know, push out a a a a narrative that, you know, people who serve in the defense force are, you know, um immoral people, or you know what we did over there was a crime or whatever. That's their opinion. We know the truth. You know, stick to I hate to say it, but like if you need support, go to your people. Go to your your veteran brotherhood, you know, or your you know, your former cop mates or whatever. People that know and have walked the walk the line with you or understand, you know, like they're the best people to get support from. Um, you know, and we we do, we have to prop each other up, you know. Um because I I don't want to hear any of any more guys that have fucking made that decision or girls, you know. I don't I don't want to hear that, man. It's it's a it's I've had I've had suicide in my family, in my in my direct family, and to see the the aftershock of it coming up on 20 years later and the intergenerational trauma that it causes within a family, it's just it's a it's a fucking horrible thing, man. It's a sad and fucking terrible legacy, man.

SPEAKER_03 4:48:27

Yeah, it's and yeah, mate, I don't know that I think the government's somewhat to blame, mate. You know, this yeah, you know, look for example, you know, we speak about the BRS and um, you know, the Office of Special Investigation Puffs, you know, they're you know, the the the families they've destroyed, the people that destroyed all of four witch hunt, yeah, just for to make them feel like they've spent their$320 million in the right way. You know, like it's this just destroyed people. It has, yeah. And friendships now. Oh yeah, you know, it's fuck, mate.

SPEAKER_01 4:49:02

People turning on each other and yeah, it's caused a division. And and look, I've I you know, I mean, I'm optimistic that maybe not immediately, but maybe when all of this shit fucking clears up and you know the naysayers, you know, R S isn't going to jail, but like, you know, when it gets to the point where he's exonerated or whatever, and this shit hopefully blows over, there'll always be fucking lunatic fucking idiots in the community that want to keep bringing it up and you know, trying to fucking dig deeper or whatever. Whatever, man, they can do that, that's their right. But I like to think that you know, in years to come that you know, we can sort of fucking all look back and like put it behind us and go, you know, like yeah, like I don't know about these particular individuals that are decided to testify, that's their journey. I I I'm not gonna comment on that um, but I think for the greater good of the veteran community, um and you know, I I talk about it, you know, the Anzac um tradition and the Anzac spirit, and what we all guys like us grew up believing in, well, we have to keep that alive, and these people want to destroy that by creating these kind of divisions, and we have to fight against that, you know what I mean. If those guys made their decision to testify for whatever reason, whatever motivation, whatever, that's their journey, they have to fucking live with that, and they will live with that. But the guys that don't want to prescribe to that and want to keep this fucking, you know, patriotism and nationalism alive, well, like him or not, Ben Robert Smith earned those decorations, much like my mate fucking Cam Baird did, but Cam's dead, he can't, he's not alive anymore. He can't be, you know, I don't speak for him, we don't speak for him, but he's in the he's gone, he's in he's in the next realm wherever it wherever, you know, like but RS is here and he's alive and he's fucking he symbolises the same thing, you know, he's earned those fucking decor though, he has been awarded those decorations. Not once, not twice, not three times, you know, multiple times, you know, and and these they're saying, oh, it's all political, it's fucking, you know, it's it's they propped him up for recruiting and all this sort of shit. No, can't yeah. If you knew how our fucking honours and award system works, you would know that they don't throw those things around like confetti, you know, and he earned those, right? And you can't take that away from him. And these fucking charges, look, the bottom line is it's he's going to court now, he's gonna get his day in court if it makes it that far. And if it if it makes it that far and he's found not guilty, that's it, he's done. If it doesn't go to court and they drop it because they can't fucking mount a fucking case based off the fucking lack of evidence and etc. etc. These fuckwits in the community that want to see him swinging from the gallows are just gonna have to cope with it. They're gonna have to cope.

SPEAKER_03 4:52:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:52:02

And they're not gonna like it.

SPEAKER_03 4:52:04

No, they're definitely not gonna be like, that's gonna be yeah, it's gonna be the fucking law. That's the end of their lives, too, I think.

SPEAKER_01 4:52:09

Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like that you'd have to go into hiding. Oh, so many of those people, man, have made it their mission. Like, you know, that it's just this new what do you call it, like new um crusade pardon the bun.

SPEAKER_04 4:52:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:52:23

You know, to fucking make sure Robert Smith fucking gets sent to prison for the rest of his life.

SPEAKER_03 4:52:28

And it's like making you more the the journos, those weasels out there that are making money off their books as well. Yeah, I know, man. You know, I know. It's and you know, paying off witnesses.

SPEAKER_01 4:52:42

Well, yeah, I mean, that's stuff that's come out, man, and it's and you know, I and I'll one thing I will say, man, is like fucking Nick McKenzie is on audio recording admitting I shouldn't be talking about this. I'm really giving up my ethics here. I mean, how can you like if you got someone that's talking like that on a recording, how can you then like give that person any like they're admitting essentially to committing perjury? So how can that person and like we're seeing it playing out in the media now, you know, like channel nine, you know, the stories like it's so funny when you see and then but like you said, but then channel seven, like you know, after Carumba and RSL, they'll get RS like come over here, mate. You know, we're not not on the books anymore, but like we'll give you a bit of air time. How good was that?

SPEAKER_03 4:53:32

Oh, it was awesome and for him to come out and on the front foot and say, you know, just and it was like a PM's address, yeah. Like it was like literally a prime minister coming on TV just giving like an Anzac Day address, like that's what we that's what we need in charge of this country.

SPEAKER_01 4:53:45

Yeah, yeah, fucking earth, mate. You know, look, and not some fucking bloke that's you know playing with his Pomeranian and getting fucking pegged in the fucking backyard by the former CEO of Qantas. You know, it's uh whatever, man. I'd I'm disgusted. Yeah, oh mate, shout out to Danger Dan. All you young blokes that are listening to this, if you haven't already, go to YouTube and watch Danger Dan. Danger Jam.

SPEAKER_03 4:54:16

He's all you need to watch, but anyway, mate, so just quickly, uh before you finish the podcast, got a couple final questions, but just quickly back to your mental health issues. Yeah, like obviously, we're in the current day now. When did you start, you know, realize obviously we we figured out when you start realizing that you had some issues, what has not fixed it, but what have you done to maintain you know the the straight and narrow?

SPEAKER_01 4:54:38

Um, okay, so first and foremost, I gave up the grog. Um the devil's juice right there. Yeah, also it tastes good. Yeah, mate. Don't get it. Fun times, great times, great memories. Uh look, mate, I I was never a whiskey or wine man or a vodka man, I was a beer man. Yeah, just beer, you know, and and I not craft beer, I love fucking dirty VBs, Melbourne bitter, fucking man's beer, Ted's beer. Well, uh look, mate, I I'm not a cheapskate, but I kind of love that sort of Aussie Larricanism, you know what I mean? Like a fuck couple of VBs. I love the old VB ads like with the classical beer VB at three in the fucking morning. No, no, no, no, no, no. You know, um, so but yeah, mate, I I had to um make a conscious decision that um look, you know, I've I've drunk more beer in my lifetime on this earth than a lot of men my age would ever even contemplate drinking, and uh it's like not serving me a good purpose anymore. Um so yeah, man, I I basically um yeah, I went through a I went through a detox period, which you know, as you know, like coming off heavy drinking of alcohol can be quite dangerous if it's not done. Um you can you you know, even young fit blakes can have a massive heart attack, you know what I mean? You gotta do it right. So I did the detox. Um and then I ended up like doing a um basically like a a substance abuse awareness program. And um, mate, it's been yeah, 23rd of March. Uh 23rd of March was three years since I had a drop. Um and mate, I don't even, you know, I've got an app that reminds me. I just I don't miss it. I still go out to the pub with mates. I still don't mind the smell of a beer. If someone's having a beer schooner next to me on a hot summer's day, I'm like, hmm, that smells good, but I I I don't I just don't do it anymore, you know what I mean? It's and I don't feel like I'm missing out. Um and was that you know was that majority of it? Uh oh look in maintaining, you know, again that no look I had to do I had to do quite a bit of um like I I I spent a fair bit of time with a a gentleman called Professor Zachary Steele, um, who's from the University of New South Wales, and he he he was like he works at St John of God at Richmond, um down in Sydney with at the at the Repat Hospital. Um I first started seeing him at at that period of time after um you know Cam was um farewelled and uh I then went into a CV job. I was working in the crane industry, um, doing steel rigging and um you know erection and dismantle of tower cranes and things like that. And um look again, I was just I guess I was just coping with life by working. You know, you hear about people they say they become a workaholic. Yeah, for me it was just like I had to constantly keep myself occupied so my mind would not go to the places where it was avoidance behaviour, you know what I mean? And that's the same as you know, substance abuse or you know, alcohol excess of alcohol consumption, whatever your poison is. So I kind of came to a bit of a uh um loggerhead uh on Remembrance Day 2015. I was working on a building site in the city, um, and that morning at the toolbox talk, the site manager had said, Look, guys, it's Remembrance Day today. Um I'm gonna get on the radio at about 10 to 11 and just let all trades know that at 11 o'clock we're just gonna be down tools for one minute and we're gonna have a minute silence. And um everyone at the toolbox meeting was like, Yeah, yeah, no worries. And and look, man, I like you know, I'd hadn't long been out of the whole like military fucking in industry, if you were, you know, I've been at the embassy, straight out of the army, straight onto the embassy, you know, private military contracting, whatever you want to call it. So there's me out in the city working on a building site, and um the site manager, good bloke, you know, and there was another old veteran that was working on the site, an old Kiwi bloke that I used to bullshit with, and um nice guy, but come 11 o'clock or 10 to 11, the site manager's trying to get everyone to down tools, man, and like nobody, and he's going around going, hey, come on, we've got and then I remember this one bloke's like, I don't give a fuck about the Anzacs and a fucking minute silence. I don't give a shit. And um I was just kind of like whoa, you know, and like and the crane that I was working on, the the crane operator, good dude, he goes, Hey mate, it's I don't know whether you know, but it's about a minute off 11. I'm just gonna hold the hook up here, all right? Because I was lower like I was under working under a hook, and he goes, I'm just gonna hold it here, mate. Why don't you just go off to the side and have your have your minute silence? I'll have mine up here in the crane. You know, it's a good old Aussie fella, you know, and and I was like, Oh, fuck, thanks, mate. So I just looked at my watch and I kind of went over to the most quiet part of the scrap. I mean, there's fucking Ramset guns going off and cunts yelling and all that, and I just, you know, had my minute silence, man, and I just kind of something just came over me and I was just like, fuck, man, like, you know, I I'm here, and the people that I'm remembering that aren't here anymore, who basically gave up everything for this country, and then I'm on a building site with these people that just don't give a fuck. They couldn't care less, man. And and and look, man, I'm I'm not judging them for that. I did I like I didn't at the time, I I just was a little bit kind of like crestfallen by it. I'm not gonna say saddened, I just it it was a moment for me when I realized that like you know, a lot of people out there just don't give a fuck, you know, have died in in the service of our country, and that's their right, you know what I mean? Not critical, like me, like you know, I'm in a different world here, you know what I mean. Like I'm on my own here at the moment. Yep. Um, the old crane, he he he was and he he's an old school fella, and he knew I think he knew that I was struggling a little bit. Um, and he had a chat to me later that day. Anyway, that that afternoon, man, I punched off the clock, I fucking started walking up to the train station. I just pulled into this little spot and I called my uncle, um, National Serviceman, I was telling you about, and I just said, Look, I I I'm struggling here, man. Hey, like I'm and I told him what had happened. I said, look, I just I'm I'm I'm really like I wasn't suicidal or anything, but I was just kind of like I was in a spot where I was kind of like I just felt like I was fucking out on my own. Abandoned. Yeah, sailing, sailing on a fucking rough seas on my own with no, you know, I was I I was calling him for a like a guiding light to sort of give me a little bit of fucking you know guidance on the how to navigate this fucking storm I was going through. And then he goes, Look, mate, go home, have a shower, get on the train, have a couple of beers at the at the fucking Winyard fucking, you know, the bar down at Winyard station. Yeah. He goes, have a couple of beers while you're waiting for the train. Get home, have a shower, give me a call. And then um, while I was waiting, I um I reached out to a mate of mine who was actually a uh one of the old school members of the Sydney chapter of the Vietnam Veterans Motorcycle Club because I, you know, I ride bikes and I'd, you know, and he had said to me, he goes, you know, I'd spoken to him when I'd got it got out and going into this construction realm, and he goes, mate, you know, it's you're gonna it's gonna be a bit of an eye-opener for you, mate. You know what I mean? Like you're gonna have a few tough times, but you know, I've been there, done that. Give me a call if you ever want to chat. And so I gave him a chat, and he was really good, man. And he goes, Look, mate, he goes, I think I'll tell you what, this place saved my life, and I think it might help you with yours. I wanna I'm gonna make a phone call and I'm gonna um see if I can get you get you a bed out at the Xavier Award out at St. John of God. And I was kind of like, geez, what you know, I didn't know what it really what it was all about. And and I and mate, he called me back that night, my uncle called me back um next morning, um, went to the GP, got a fucking work certificate, work cover certificate, and got a referral and fucking drove out there. My wife at the time drove me out there and dropped me off, man. And Xavier Ward was used to be called the Vietnam Veterans Ward. I don't know whether you've visited anyone out there or been out there. St. John of God, Richmond, it's just this beautiful old place. Man, break 'em around used to work there. You know, break them around. Yeah, I used to work there as a fucking horse breaker. And um out at Richmond, right on the rural outskirts of fucking Sydney. And um, mate, yeah, like, and so I'm I'm there with you know some old Vietnam vets. I there was actually a bloke from 126 Commando Signal Squadron that I knew really well who'd who he was in there as well. And I and as soon as I saw a familiar face, it just you know it was very it was very daunting to get to get dropped off in there, you know. Like, and you know, fuck, you know, well, am I gonna end up in a fucking straitjacket and padded cell tonight, you know? Like, what's the go here? You know, I'm not you're going into a you know sight unseen, you know. And um, as soon as I ran into him and he would just come over, he's like, You want to fucking dub, mate? And I'm like, Yeah, sure. And we there was some golf clubs, mini golf course out the back in the paddock, and he's like, Let's have a fucking hit and have a chat. And and then that just started my fucking journey of healing, man. And I got to meet Professor Steele, and he specialises in um uh PTSD, particularly with people who have experienced PTSD from war zones. So he's dealt with people who are like, you know, the victims of war as well, um, like people who have been in, you know, prisoners of war camp and uh people from Kosovo and all, you know, and and soldiers. So he he does the whole and mate, I got to spend quite a lot of one-on-one time with him, man, because he had never really had anyone go through there that was from the unit. Like the the there weren't any there had been a couple of guys that had gone through, but they the went the um circumstances under which I had gone in there was like he was like, Look, I want to understand why you're why you can't fucking shut yourself down, you know. Like, even if I'm drinking half a case of beer at night, I'm still running in the red line. I couldn't get out of the red line, like hypervigilance, like all the time. And even like, even when I was asleep, my ex-wife would say, you know, you you you you're talking in your sleep, it sounds like you're talking to someone on a radio. Yeah, I mean she knew what she you know, she knew what like retail procedure was and that. She's like, you know, you're having these dreams and you're talking like you're talking to someone on a radio, like you're talking in transmissions, you know, and and I had no recollection of that because my mind was just still in that fucking environment. So I had to learn and understand that you know, under the guidance of these people in this place, like what how my um neurochemistry and had changed, and how my trying to cope with it through substance abuse in the form of drinking piss to slow my fucking thoughts down was not helping me, it was fucking, if anything, to my detriment because of the the way that the five the brain fibers you know migrate from the amidala and like your br in your brain and and how you know substance abuse it can change your neurochemical pathways permanently. Um not irreversible, but you if you get onto it early and you know what. So I had to learn all that, man, and um and understand why because my one of my mates said to me, He goes, dude, have a look at it, man. You have been fucking on the go since 2004, yeah. In and out, in and out, fucking contracting, fucking flying around, doing this, doing that, coming back, and then you're thinking, Oh, yeah, I'm just gonna go and work on fucking tower cranes in the city. Nothing happened, you know, become a civvy and thinking you can just yeah, yeah, live a normal life. I know. So yeah, man, it's been a bit of a fucking journey, but not over yet, man. I um as I told you, I'm I'm about to um I'm not gonna go into specifics, but I'm I'm just about to go and um uh take care of something in a clinic um in order to I've I've uh a medication that I take that helps me with hypervigilance. I'm at a point now where I'm able to um under the proper guidance be sort of taken off that so I can then um go to the United States, um, where some of my friends that I've still in contact with um to then go and um self-fund for myself to do ibogain therapy. Um so that's what I'm gonna do. I'm I'm gonna get off this um particular compound that I'm that that it's been helping me for the last 10 years, but I'm at a point now where I can function without it, I'm pretty sure. And then that will open the door for me to then go and do ibogain therapy. Because you can't do ibogain, I know you spoke to Horse about it. You can't do ibogain if you're on any kind of yeah, of course yeah, you gotta be clean. You've got to be clean off it, man. Um and for me, uh I I don't, you know, I don't smoke weed, I don't obviously don't drink booze anymore, I don't party. Um, but I I do have to take the I do take this medication that helps me with the hypervigilance. So I'm about to go in to wash it, wash that out of my system, um, and then hopefully be able to like um stay off that and and you know, the the management techniques that I've learnt over the period of the last 10 years to be able to cope with that and you know, like little things too, like you know, I've just recently laugh, like call me Darth Vader, I've just recently started CPAP therapy, um CPAP machine. Yeah, because a lot of guys don't realise that big part of the pick the puzzle is sleep. Broken sleep, yeah. Yeah, you know, like and and I'm no longer sleeping talking on the radio anymore. I'm actually, you know, it's like as soon as I put that mask on and I lay down at night, gone, I'm out, you know, and then and then and it's got an app and it's and it's Bluetooth and it tells me on my phone, Oh, you had six and a half hours of unbroken sleep last night, you know, with no Um mask interruptions or events like where you stopped breathing or anything like that. And I feel a million bucks, you know, but no more, no more grog, no more fucking nicotine. I you know, I used to roll my own, but I was a big dip fiend, man. Skull mint, long cut. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:09:23

A lot of dudes were, especially in the contracting world.

SPEAKER_01 5:09:25

Yeah, yeah. Oh man. Because you can't smoke around a client, but you can put a bit of dip in there. Oh, you can put a bit of dip in there. It doesn't smell. And oh well, it depends. Like the the cunts that use the fucking wintergreen shit. And then I even fucking dabbled with some red men for a while, you know, they're fucking chewing tobacco.

SPEAKER_03 5:09:43

Yeah, now all these queers are on this Zin bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 5:09:46

Zin, well, that's mate. I was addicted to Zin. Well, yeah. And I'll tell you something about that Zin, bro. That Zin, like people look at it and they think, oh, it's just a little white pillow and there's no smell on it. What that does to your gut biome, yeah, it totally fucks up all the flora. And you they talk about gut health, they say your gut's your second brain. Well, mate, since I gave up the zin and I put myself through a bit of a probiotic um routine and and sort of got my gut health back on track again. Mate, I just like I'm thinking so much clearer. Yeah, you know, like my recall. Um yeah, I mean, it is it was just you got it, and and you know, people can teach you this stuff or talk to you about it or you know, preach to you about it. You have to really like take a vested interest in your own health, I think. 100%. Yeah, and and and simple thing, sleep.

SPEAKER_03 5:10:40

Sleep, mate. Yeah, gut gut health. Who would have thought gut health would change your perspective on your own health?

SPEAKER_01 5:10:47

100% mindset. Yeah, 100%. You know, it's just it really does um, you know, and and I look, I'm still on this journey, man, and and you know, the the thing I want to say though is like, you know, I I encourage any um young bloke who, you know, girl or guy or whatever who's who's struggling, like, just don't be afraid to like reach out for help, you know. There's there are good people out there who will help you. Um in the veteran community, you know, in the you know, just ask for help if you need it. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Nobody's gonna think you're a weak cunt, no one's gonna think you're a fucking fucking bludger, or because I'll tell you, like the veteran community, when we hear about some poor person that's made that decision, it saddens us, man. Even if you didn't know the guy or the girl, like anytime I hear about that, man, it makes me it upsets me, man.

SPEAKER_03 5:11:41

Especially when you hear that they've got kids and mate, like just a hundred percent. You know, it's just it's that's the worst part, you know. I think for me, anyway. That's my thoughts, I think. Yeah, someone that's killed themselves and they've got kids, and like, fuck, those poor kids. Yeah, man. Those poor fucking kids. Yeah, because I think the statistics have shown now that they're probably gonna lead those tendencies in later life as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:12:03

It is, man. And it's it it can it can be, you know, the the one that I had in my family, um, it was my auntie's partner and the mother of my uh the father of my cousin, they weren't married, but they were in a de facto relationship, and my little cousin, um, her father, um, he took his life and he took his life in 2007, just before I went on that trip. And that was the same time my dad got diagnosed with throat cancer. So that was that period of time. That's just another layer, but but when you know John rest his soul, and John took his life, um, and he was just a he was a lovely man, you know what I mean? Like, and and he'd been to Afghanistan in the 60s. I remember he was just on holiday. No, on the hippie trail. Yeah, he was an he was an arty kind of guy.

SPEAKER_03 5:12:47

He was a destination for the younger listening, it was a destination, yeah, chasing that Hindu Kush.

SPEAKER_01 5:12:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. May have tried a little bit. Yeah, he did, yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe not. But um, yeah, and like, you know, he I remember he pulled out this old photo album just before I went on that trip, and he's like, Oh mate, I was there in '67 or whatever, and you know, he was telling me, goes, Oh, we're in this overland bus, and it was really exciting. We stopped at this checkpoint, and the guy with a Kaleshnikov got on the bus, and we had to give him some cash, and I'm thinking, Fucking hell, like you know, and and then you know, like unfortunately, he took his life. And um, my little cousin was only five at the time, and um, you know, she's a beautiful young lady now, she's doing really well for herself, but um, yeah, man, it just doesn't affect. And then we found out that John that John's mum had done the same. Um, and which is just fucking terrible, man.

SPEAKER_03 5:13:40

You know, like and generational fucking trauma, and it's yeah, I think that's if you're out there listening, just reach out. Yeah, people reach in. If you see something different with your mates or whatever, they start to isolate, just yeah, fucking do what you can.

SPEAKER_01 5:13:53

It's important, it's important, and you know, like I look, I don't know whether or not you um you know, uh when you upload these, whether or not you provide numbers or whatever, I don't know, but they're out there. It's it's it's so easy for people. Like if you need just go to Google, yeah, and um get yourself.

SPEAKER_03 5:14:11

Yeah, there's plenty out there. Yeah, lifeline and overwatch the military guys, yeah, yeah, fuck yeah, man. Call DVA, call the fuck and they call the fucking police. That's part of their fucking role as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:14:21

Yeah, I mean, look, I personally called, I think it's called something else now, but at the time it was veterans and veterans family counseling service. Counsel, yeah, VVC. V VCS. V V C S. And I rang them up and and I just said, Look, I'm I'm fucking in the hurt locker at the moment. Open arms, I think it's another one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so many out there, you know, and just use they're good people that work for those places and they'll put you onto the right path. And that's it.

SPEAKER_03 5:14:45

Yeah, 100%, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um worst case scenario, fucking if you need a message, me. Yeah, fucking just message. If I don't know you, like like I, you know, I'm not we're not psychologists, no, but you know, we we'll point you in the right direction where you need to go. But if if you feel it's the end of the world and you you're like, fuck, I've got to message Maddie Morris, maybe he can help. Yeah, I'll give you my fucking two cents, but I'll send you in the right direction. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 5:15:11

I mean, if and it's likewise, if anyone ever send me a DM on a on a socials or whatever and said, Look, I'm struggling here, man. You know, I I would just say, look, I I all I can do is steer you in the direction, please call these people.

SPEAKER_03 5:15:24

That's that's all they do fucking work. They do, man. And I'd like I like to see how many like it'd be really good to see some statistics on how many people have actually called open arms or lifeline, and it's saved a life if you want to. Oh, yeah, man. That'd be great to see.

SPEAKER_01 5:15:37

They do keep those statistics, bro. They do, man. They do. And um, because you know, you'd be surprised, like, you know, I know we're gonna wrap it up, but like you, you people out there that are listening to this, you know, young, young blokes and girls or whatever, and you look at these people that you, you know, I might use RS as an example, you know, and and you look at them and you think, you know, fuck, you know, that how does that that guy just keep going and going, you know, like he's a fucking hard bastard or this. I can guarantee you that fucking RS probably, you know, has someone that he talks to, you know. Yeah. I know, I know for a fact he does, you know, and and there's no show and and you know, I know Betty, like, you know, uh like Betty, yeah, I mean he he wasn't afraid of like I would say putting your putting your uh heart on your sleeve, but you know, if he had an issue, he'd talk about it. You know, he went through a marriage breakdown, and um I remember talking to him at the time about it, you know, and you know, we had a few fucking DNMs over a at the Mount Annan hotel over some Bundy and Coke on tap. But um, yeah, you know, talk to your friends, you know, like there's nothing, no shame in that, you know. Not at all. 100% mate, not at all. Uh right, I don't know. Ten hours later.

SPEAKER_03 5:16:47

I think we've yeah, we've made this pretty extensive podcast. I think we'd be pushing five hour potty, but good, mate, massively informative. And it was just by luck that you know Scojo seen you pop back up on Instagram and he's like, get fast Eddie on. And I've heard about you before, and obviously I've heard about the the Dan Bazarian stuff. Oh yeah, which uh maybe we can do that another time. Yeah, we'll do that another time. We'll say that for a debrief. But uh, you know, obviously you moved into that private contracting world, private security world, I should more say.

SPEAKER_01 5:17:17

I'll just but Dan Billzarian, he he is a he what you see is not uh he he is actually he is actually a nice guy, he is a nice bloke, you know, and he does give a fuck about the veteran community and he's running for politics now. I don't know. I know, yeah. I don't know how he's gonna go being you know sworn in at the White House with that fucking haircut that he's running. Mate, it's America, anything's possible.

SPEAKER_03 5:17:38

Yeah, it is anything's possible. But uh yeah, um as I said, Scojo, pass me, you know, your Instagram, I reached out and bang. Literally, I think I just wrote potty with a question mark, yeah, and you're back. You're like basically what's it?

SPEAKER_01 5:17:51

And I'm like, fuck, that's the first time I've spoken to this bloke and that was it. Yeah, mate. Look, I'm all about look, I'm back on the scene now.

SPEAKER_03 5:17:57

Um it's valuable, it is valuable fucking shit that you've spewed today.

SPEAKER_01 5:18:02

Yeah, well, mate, it's and it's valuable what you're doing, mate. And you know, it's valuable what fucking Scojo's doing, you know. Like it's you know, it's he has a laugh. I mean, I when I was listening to that podcast on the fucking Hume Highway, mate, I was fucking pissing myself laughing. He should be a stand-up comedian, like he really should. Like, yeah, but it's like you know, he'd be cancelled. It's like, well, what are you gonna do? You're either gonna laugh or cry. Yeah, and and if people are criticizing him saying, Oh, he's a maniac or whatever, it's like, well, what do you want him to do? Do you want him to to crawl under his desk in his house and fucking cry himself to sleep at night? The guy's been through a lot of shit.

SPEAKER_04 5:18:38

100%.

SPEAKER_01 5:18:39

And um the way he deals with it is a bit of fucking humour. And I can guarantee you that that most of the cunts listening to it will laugh in their heads. 100%. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:18:49

And then we know for a fact that a lot of uh military guys' first responders, black humour is a massive part, it's a big thing, a massive part, yeah, and it helps you cope and mate uh surgeons do it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:19:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Doc, you know, they they talk in the tea room afterwards, and you have to do it to say because if that means doing what you got to do to keep the capability and the job going, I got told by a general, he goes, You do what you gotta do to keep the job fucking going. Yeah, you know, you just do what it takes, do what it takes. Yeah, all right, mate.

SPEAKER_03 5:19:23

No, we've got a couple final questions. Oh, okay. Before we go, before we go. Uh, first question, you know, we I I guess we kind of touched on it right at the end there, but you know, uh reaching out to people, etc. But what advice can you give to people just to keep on keeping on completing any goal they set their mind to and to question life?

SPEAKER_01 5:19:38

Okay, um look for me it's always been I would say like a bit of dogged determination. Like I I don't I'm not the kind of guy that would put a what do you call it, like a uh dream board up on the wall or um but like if I have something that I want to achieve and I I will sit there and like professional sports people I'll visualize it, you know, like you know, I want to achieve that, I want to obtain that, I want to, you know, that's that's where I want to head. And you just play it out in your mind and you think about the scenarios and whatever. And some people like to write things down, but for me, it's always just been like that kind of I'd say dogged determination to want to achieve. If you set your mind to something, it's just like I'm gonna get this via hell or high water, you know, like I'm not you know, whether it's a you know, doing a selection course or um, you know, fucking I don't know, not that I've climbed many mountains, but I assume like if somebody wanted to go and scale fucking Kilimanjaro or something, it's like you know, it's gonna be hard, but I'm gonna fucking do this. Like, you know, and just have that sort of determination and and just m hang on to that fucking um that dream. And you know, we all dream. There's nothing wrong, like people say manifest or whatever. I it's good to dream, you know what I mean? Like it's it's you know, dreams are important, you know, like you're dreaming about a better lifestyle for yourself or a better relationship or you know, the house that you want to build with your wife, or you know, it's good to dream, you know, have dream and dream big and and set your mind to it and just go out and fucking smash it, man. Achieve it. You can do it, you know. Um that's all I'd have to say to a young bloke, man. Just fucking give it a crack. Give it a crack, mate. Just just do it. Yeah, just do it, just do it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:21:25

What's the worst gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01 5:21:26

That's right, you never know unless you try, man. And and you know, it's that that whole um that poem about the arena, you know, it's it's not the critic that counts, but it's the man that's standing in the middle of the arena, you know what I mean, with the sweat and the blood, you know, he's the one that's in there, like, you know, trying to he's get having a crack, you know what I mean? And that's and you don't know people don't realise how inspiring it is to other people when they see someone, you know, like and I'm not not always the underdog, but like you know, when you see someone that that's why like even a lot of trades, and when you get a young apprentice and that the they love a bloke that's willing to give it a go. He might fuck it up, you know, he might fuck up the fucking job or whatever, and that's gonna happen when you're learning, but at least you're giving it a fucking go. You know what I mean? Like you're not just some prick that fucking expects everyone to do everything fucking for you. Yeah, we don't live in that that's not the reality, no, you know. I know that the the the powers that be would love everyone to have a fucking achievement trophy and a participation award and all this feel-good stuff. That's not the way the real world works, no, you know. Um, you know, and teaching that to your kids is the biggest thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 5:22:35

Yeah, it's not you're not being a shit parent by teaching your kids that no, you know, like work, work hard for your money, work hard for your life. Yeah, no, work hard for a better life. Exactly, man. It's uh yeah, I don't know how much these days, mate.

SPEAKER_01 5:22:50

Too many fucking shit. I don't want to sound like an old fart, man. I'm I'm pushing 50, I gotta fucking hang on to my youth as much as I can.

SPEAKER_03 5:22:57

Mate, uh second question, what scares you most in life? What are you most afraid of?

SPEAKER_01 5:23:02

What scares me the most in life is if we do not now, as a collective group of proud patriots and nationalists or whatever you want to call us, people who've served our nation in whatever capacity, if we don't get together now and you know, if they talk about people power and we start, you know, organizing and I'm not talking about insurrections against the government or if we don't start the silent majority, don't start becoming the the herd majority and bringing these what kind of future are we gonna fucking what legacy and what future are we leaving for our children and for the grandchildren, you know, because like look, I've got two teenage children, and you know, in 10 years' time, you know, knock on wood, I might have some grandkids, you know. It I I want them to have a happy and successful their careers and achieve what they want, but then again, I also hope too that they can achieve parenthood and not leave it too late. Um, and that's a problem that we've got in this western society that you know, people kind of you know, they're they're sort of foregoing parenthood and they're leaving it later, and as a result, our society is is struggling a bit. But um, I just hope that we we can fucking fix these problems that we've got in our society now so that our grandchildren will have a fucking experience maybe a childhood like what we had, man. Man, different times, wasn't it? Yeah, dude. Like when you 79, I was 84. Yeah, it's just different. 79, man, like, you know, 84, like, you know, it's it I remember coming home on the school bus and you know, like um, you know, this is before dad went overseas and mum was, you know, I was sort of looking after my younger brothers, but you know, I'd come home from school and mum would be like, put your school bag down and you know, take your school shoes off so you don't wreck 'em and chuck your fucking boardies on, and and you know, when the street lights come on, you know, come in for dinner, or you know, when you hear me yell out, you know, dinner's on the table, and we'd be out in the street and fucking, you know, ride pushes. Yeah, with a pocket knife whittling sticks and you know, just adventure and build crates with the ramps, yeah, jumping in, yeah, building cubby houses, climbing trees, yeah, all that shit, man. And like, you know, you could fucking go out on the street. We used to have a at the end of each year, we'd have a street party.

SPEAKER_02 5:25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:25:18

And all the people in the street would set up a card table with stuff, and the kids would be running around and the adults would be like people were kind of it was just seemed like a I don't want to try and sound too like nostalgic, but it's true, different. Yeah, I I I really enjoyed my childhood. Most people don't even know who their neighbours are now. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's that's a big thing. Yeah, and you're living in cities with like high density fucking living arrangements, and people still don't yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:25:43

Like growing up, I lived in pretty much my neighbour's house. Yeah. If I couldn't there'd be times when mum would wasn't wasn't home, yeah. We couldn't get into the house or just go next door and stay there until mum comes home type thing. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 5:25:54

Like because we knew our neighbours. I'm pretty I'm pretty stoked with my neighbour, man. I live in a DHA place. My next door neighbour's a Sierra from the unit. Oh yeah, yeah, not gonna say his name, but yeah, like because you know, my my wife is is um is she's in the in the army, she's a medic in the army. Shout out to uh Kaz. But um, yeah, and she um, you know, when we came down from Townsville, when she was posted down here to Holesworthy, they were like, oh, you know, DHA options and mum was fucking like Lydcombe and fucking, I don't know, I don't know. They were like, I'm not gonna say the suburb, but they were like, you know, I'm like, yeah, fuck yeah, like, you know, I like that place. And um, she was like, Oh, I don't really know much about it, because she's originally from the northern beaches. And um, I'm like, it's all right, like you'll like it. We move into this dual occupancy, like, and within a couple of weeks I get to know the neighbour, and and then um I find out that he's you know, from the unit, and it's like, oh yeah, you know, such and such. And and so, yeah, man, I've been living there for three years next to this dude and his and his wife and um mate, I couldn't ask for better neighbours, man. And I have conversations with him, you know, like he's he's a young dad, and I I sort of say to him, you know, man, like you know, you're doing what you're doing at the moment, but you know, like just remember that what you're coming home to is gonna be there for you when your career ends, you know, and uh that's not me trying to sound like an old fucking sweater or anything, but yeah, if I can just sort of pass on a bit of friendly friendly voice, you know, and um you've lived a life, you understand. Yeah, man. Don't make the same mistake I made, man. You know, like you know, you've yeah, like look, everything's sweet with me and and and my my kids and their mum and you know, my my wife, and it everything's copacetic now, you know what I mean? Like it's it's it's worked out. It's taken a while to get there, man. Yeah, it has been a bumpy row, but it's working out now. But like um uh, you know, anyone out there, any any operator or whatever that's got a young family, man, like just remember, like, you know, when your career's over, they're gonna be the ones that are uh they're gonna be there for you. So you've got to put in a bit of time with it as well. Yeah, you know, don't do what a lot of us did, man, of that era and just fucking focus on the fucking downrange operation shit, you know. Yeah, well, there's none of it.

SPEAKER_02 5:28:12

So that's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:28:15

Uh mate, third question. Tell us something about you that people don't know. Guilty obsession. Oh what are you into?

SPEAKER_01 5:28:21

Okay, my latest obsession um is TikTok. Is it?

SPEAKER_03 5:28:26

Oh yeah. And that'll go, yeah. So I've um You got your own TikTok videos doing TikTok dances?

SPEAKER_01 5:28:31

No, I'm not doing dances. I'm uh I'm I've I've I've created a presence on TikTok where I initially it started that I wanted to know what my um teenagers were up to on there, and so I I created a you know just this sort of false account, or not false account, but like I created an account and it was just a ghost account, like and it was just so I could sort of see what this TikTok's all about. Because my experience with TikTok was the defence directive, like defence personnel, and not to have a TikTok because obviously the Chinese and you know, and then now obviously the owners are involved with Palantir, of course. Yeah, yeah. I've got nothing to hide, man. Like the Yanks have had my biometric data for over 20 years. So, like anyway, but um so I started going into this, man, and and and I I started to learn how this this TikTok platform works, and a lot of the young people listening to this are gonna laugh and go, listen to this old cunt talking about TikTok. But I I thought, you know, it's a system and it's a social media platform and I want to learn how this works. And then I started to learn about these people that do these things called battles and they're monetized and whatever, and it's just it seemed a bit fucking weird to me. But then I stumbled into these fucking live uh discussion panels, right? And uh they're not really debates, they're more like a sort of open discussion, some sort of like the the the account owner can moderate them, and so that you can you can put a timer on someone who's on your panel and not so they'll put a they might put a green screen up and it might be a subject like um should um should America have um uh invaded Iran, you know, like and um and then the people will come onto the panel and they'll they'll they'll um request to follow and the moderator has the choice to choose who's on the panel. Yeah, it's it's interesting, man. You know, like until you watch it, like I I showed up Civy mate of mine and he was astounded. He's like, what the fuck? Like, is this available to the kids? And I'm like, yeah, and he's like, fuck, this should be banned. Because I'll tell you, what I stumbled into was this perverse, degenerate, uh, evil group of Islamists in Australia that like lurk around and dominate the the TikTok space. Now, I I know that might sound a little bit, but if you get on there and you start going in and you find out who these sort of key creators are, and then you you go into their like you you you go in as an observer into these panels that they have, or these battles that they have, man, some of the stuff that These people are talking about, man. Like one of these, one of these so-called creators, quite a well-known guy, he became quite big on TikTok during COVID. I'm not gonna say his name because I don't want to give him clout because he got arrested when fucking Isaac Herzog was here because he was stalking Isaac Herzog around. Did you read about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he went to a Jewish school in um Bellevue Hill or whatever and abused a security guard while he was on TikTok live stream for clout. Now he ends up getting sent to fucking he goes he goes away for a while, and I think he's pled guilty, or they've knocked the DPP's knocked down his charges. He gets put on a social media ban. He's back on there. He's back on there. Like he was on there last night. So what what's happened is I'm just sitting there for six months watching this shit, just getting infuriated, watching these people, like they run, they have these things where they they call it a turning live, like so they'll they'll pick pick another creator and then they'll all just fucking turn on this person and dog pile them, man. And people send gifts, and it's it's insane, man. And like, so I thought, you know, fuck this, dude. Like, you know, there's a guy on there saying, you know, um Lebos won Bondi Nil talking about the incident at the at the beach, you know what I mean? And I'm thinking, why isn't the security agencies fucking doing something about this? Like, are they monitoring this? You know, you got the e-safety commissioner talking about age 16, not allowed to go on there. Kids know how to use VPNs, yeah, exactly. You know, so I'm I'm there lurking around, so I thought, right, I'm gonna fucking get involved in this shit.

SPEAKER_03 5:32:36

Right, not for money. Go on the offensive, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:32:38

So I start an account, I start a pro I start a profile picture called a profile account called the Dejjal. Now, if you know anything about Islam, the Dejal is is basically um not that they believe in Jesus Christ, but the Dajjal is their version of the Antichrist. So when I pop up on this live with a picture of the Dejal, which is like a guy with his right eye closed, he's got his infidel tattooed on his forehead. They're they yeah, they don't like it. And and and I come in, I request to go into their discussion boards and I call them out on their shit. You know, I I hit them up. I'm like, you know, well, what do you think about this? You know, what do you think about this guy talking about this um incident down on the beach? And you've got to learn all this like with TikTok because a lot of it's AI um controlled, so there's certain key words that you can't say. So you can't say terrorist, you gotta say t rist, or you can't say kill, you gotta say ilkey, like pig Latin shit. So I'll go on there and say, Oh, what do you think about that scum, whatever, saying uh talking about that t wrist incident where all those innocent people were ilkade on the beach, and like you know, and you get them to talk and you get and and it's like it's I look, am I achieving anything from it? I like to think that hopefully, you know, I'm outraging some of these people to the point where they're they're they're saying some pretty fucking heavy shit on there, and hopefully spiking the threshold for the whoever's watching to go, this guy is talking about this stuff, mate. Like people on there like openly saying that their ambition is for Australia to um be taken over and and Sharia law to be implemented. It's crazy, man. So my guilty secret is lately I've been troll trolling trolling um Islamist losers.

SPEAKER_03 5:34:24

I was just chasing the chocolate or something, having a chocolate session or into chalky milk or something. No, I like it. I like it, mate. I'm gonna have to check, I'm gonna check it out, mate. Yeah, I'm interested. My kids don't have well, my older kids do, but oh mate, I'll I'll give you a bit of guidance.

SPEAKER_01 5:34:37

I think we need to get Scojo on. We need to we need he needs to kind of regulate, mate.

SPEAKER_03 5:34:42

Use his skill sets to shut down these scumbags and fucking well again and hopefully what you're doing is again, like you said, enticing them to speak out louder and hopefully, but fuck with the with the current fucking strike rate of uh Asio. Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 5:34:57

Yeah, look, man, they're not doing too well. I I like to be optimistic. I like to I like to think that there are good people sitting in offices monitoring is monitoring, trying to do a good job, you know. Like but it definitely is yeah, they're limited by manpower, limited by their fucking shit bosses too.

SPEAKER_03 5:35:17

Government.

SPEAKER_01 5:35:17

Oh, but then again, the biggest threat to Australia is the fucking uh the guys that like to wear heli hands and jackets.

SPEAKER_03 5:35:23

That's it. The white man we're the threat.

SPEAKER_01 5:35:28

Yeah, we're the threat. The veterans, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:35:30

Toxic masculinity. Yeah, disgusting. Get out.

SPEAKER_02 5:35:33

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Mate's uh dare you have a beard.

SPEAKER_03 5:35:36

How dare you strain at the gym and disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 5:35:42

Get rid of those sideburns, Mattington.

SPEAKER_03 5:35:44

Testosterone filled filth, yeah, yeah, God, heaven help them.

SPEAKER_01 5:35:49

That we need men in this world, but yeah. Mate, uh movie TV show.

SPEAKER_03 5:35:54

What's what are you what's your favorite?

SPEAKER_01 5:35:56

Mate, lately I've been look, I I really enjoyed um I really enjoyed the series Wolf Hall about Henry VIII and Thomas Cromwell. I haven't know. Mate, it's yeah, I'll I'm really kind of intrigued. No, Wolf Hall, I think was on it was on one of the streaming, yeah. So Thomas Cromwell was basically like Henry, you know, Henry VIII. Yeah. He was basically the guy that helped him architect his um, you know, like uh multiple marriages and essentially like you know, breaking away from the from Rome and forming the Church of England. And and so the the the guy that plays Cromwell, he's he's a British actor, um, I can't remember his full name. He's a he's a little short guy, um, he does a lot of stage stuff, but he's a brilliant actor, man. He he um and I I watched that series with my wife. I really enjoyed that. I've been watching um The Tudors about the same, you know, the you know, Henry VIII and the Tudor dynasty. Um oh mate, I'd fuck. I like any good series that um I I I really enjoyed I really enjoyed the um the the the terminal list series. That was good, yeah, and then the spin off well the prequel. Um the one that's just finished. Yeah, I I I I I like like Jack Carr as he's known, like the the alias. I I really like his books, you know, like a a lot of guys, like a lot of people criticized him and said, you know, but like we he's a contemporary military author, you know, and uh it's and you know I I could read it and you know discern what was probably a little bit ATT, but like you know, and I enjoyed it, you know. It's took my mind off things for a while. And we all want to live that terminal list at the moment, yeah. But um, what about yourself? What are you watching at the moment?

SPEAKER_03 5:37:45

Oh mate, um what have I watched lately? Just movies, mate. I've just been watching heaps of movies on Foxtel.

SPEAKER_01 5:37:54

So you so yeah, I see I I I'm a series man.

SPEAKER_03 5:37:57

I've I've I I do watch a lot of series. Uh in regards to series, I watch uh I've been watching a lot of drama, like Chicago Fire. Yeah. People out there be like, oh fuck, you watch that? Yeah, I do watch that. You know, your regular cartoons. South Park always love flew on Quantas the other week, and they've still got South Park. Which is wild, isn't it? Yeah, that is. Yeah, PC and LBGT friendly, and they've got fucking South Park on there just spewing fucking any rhetoric fucking bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 5:38:25

Yeah, maybe maybe some um you know cheeky flight engineer must have messed with the entertainment system or something. What about um yeah, I mean I see I I'm also too like I really like I love um obviously my podcast, but I've really been um I've I've really been sort of listening to a lot of Tucker Carlson lately.

SPEAKER_04 5:38:45

Have you?

SPEAKER_01 5:38:46

Yeah, man, yeah, like you know, because it's funny, you know, like when he left the mainstream, and then he's kind of gone on a bit of a journey, but like, you know, man, he's like he's fearless, that guy with his reporting, man. You know, I think you know, he was he was without going too deep, like he was he was very um I think Charlie Kirk considered him a bit of a mentor, and I think Tucker sort of looked down on him as he was like a bit of a little brother as well and was trying to sort of say, look, you know, what you're doing's great, but just tread carefully here, and then obviously what happened happened. And um I think since then, like Tucker Carlson's kind of just been sort of, I'm not gonna say on the war path, but he's I don't know whether you watch him or you do he's he's he's trying to find answers, and I'm not I'm not talking about like Candace Owens talking about the fucking tranny fucking she's a fucking weird yeah, she's kind of gone a little bit too fucking off the deep end, but like conspiracy theories Charlie Kirk and stuff like that crazy stuff, relax, relax. But I think um Tucker and um yeah man, like I just sort of I I I I watched him and then there's a couple of others that I I when I get an opportunity I look at. Um it's funny how you evolve, man. You know, like it's it's the things that you sort of the interest and the the the more you kind of get invested in things and and how you sort of you know uh you learn how to cure curate your feed. Yeah. And then when you curate your feed, um the algorithm, like if you if you're doing it in a positive way, it can just be an unbelievable if you if you m manage to get the algorithm to work positive for it for you, it can just be a fucking unending fucking wealth of information, man. And there's so much other info out there. Like, I don't even know how people can fucking sit there and watch fucking channel 10 news or no or or you know, an ex or or even some like I had some dickhead the other day fucking on a one of these live streams basically telling me that the fucking ABC was like an impartial fucking news source and the only trusted news source in Australia. And I'm just like, yeah, and I mentioned Heston Russell. I said, I said, mate, don't fucking talk to me. I said, mate, have you heard about the lawsuit that was settled with the I just said the soldier Heston Russell who was framed, and he's like and he's like, oh well, yeah, but you know, the ABC, when and then they get it wrong, they admit it.

SPEAKER_03 5:41:10

And I'm like they added shots and they're like, Oh, no, Miss Scoozie. I know they said I was an editing editor.

SPEAKER_01 5:41:16

Oh no, you don't no one edits and the thing is Maddie, this guy wasn't some fucking 60-year-old boomer, he was like some 35-year-old guy in Melbourne that ran a roofing business, and he, you know, and we're just having a convo, and then it just kind of it turned into like impartial news reporting. And and you know, I said to him, and I mentioned a couple, I said, have you heard of Axios? And he's like, No, what's that? And I said, mate, just jump on Google and type in axios.com before you start talking about all this shit about the fucking Trump and the White House. Like, don't get your news from like there's other sources that aren't on the television, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:41:53

Exactly right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:41:54

Yeah, anyway, anyway, mate. Uh music last question. Music, what's your go to?

SPEAKER_01 5:42:01

Mate, you know, growing up been cranking, um cranking a bit of yellow wolf today on the way up here. Yeah, um, bit of yellow wolf. Um post mine. I yeah, I do like posty. Um yeah, I do, man. I I think that guy is like he cops a lot of but he's a clever, he's an artist, man. You know, like he's he's done the fucking rap stuff, he's done the bloody country, he's done the you know, and he's yeah, and people want to work with him, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:42:31

Yeah, people that I know within the yeah, the industry. We we've both worked in the industry, and yeah, people that worked with him, they said he's he's just a good guy, just a good dude. Yeah, good job. Because we've all had fucking a client, we're like, fuck, yeah, is this kind even famous? Yeah, I know, man.

SPEAKER_01 5:42:45

What an asshole. Yeah, yeah. I I was very lucky, man. Like I my sort of brief dalyance in the the sort of celebrity VIP security scene, man. I was fortunate enough to work and travel with the black-eyed peas on a few international legs, and um, you know, Will had his own his own personal guy.

SPEAKER_03 5:43:05

Yeah, I've met him a couple of times, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:43:07

And so, but I was sort of tasked with looking after the other two fellas and and mate, like Apple and Tab, and um mate, they were just yeah, they were good dudes, man. You know what I mean? Like just the you could tell those guys just live for their music and yeah, fun, love to have fun and um look after everyone, yeah. Yeah, yeah, cool, man. But you know, but then you know, so it's just like anything to do with like sort of celebrity people and VIPs, it's always the middle management people that kind of say that before, yeah. Yeah, man, and it's anyway.

SPEAKER_03 5:43:37

Yeah, I've dealt with that plenty of times. So uh mate, for uh whatever reason people want to reach out to you. Um yeah, look, mate, I'm uh fast eddy.

SPEAKER_01 5:43:46

Yeah, fast underscore eddie underscore zero seven nine resurrected. Resurrected. Yeah, resurrected. That's because uh Insta locked me out of the original one. I didn't know yeah, look, I was my own doing. I I when I sort of cracked the shits there towards the end of the, you know, and I made a few probably political statements that Manta decided wasn't right, so I got locked out. But um, but yeah, look, yeah, fast underscore eddie underscore zero seven nine resurrected.

SPEAKER_03 5:44:13

Um I'll start sharing some of your stuff. So now it's a you're starting to put some photos up again, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 5:44:18

Yeah, yeah. Look, it's a bit different. I'm I will morph it back to what it was, but at the moment I'm just going hard with the fucking counter-propaganda piece, man. Like you know, I'm I'm a veteran of the meme wars of 2016. So I'm gonna, you know, some of my stuff's a bit old school, but I'm pumping out the info, man. Like, you know, we've got to build the morale. Um, I'm not as extreme as Skojo. Yeah, you know, I'm I'm having my say, I've earned a right to say my piece, and um I'm gonna support the boys. Um, you know, I'd I don't want to see any of the boys um spend a single day in a fucking prison cell, man. Yeah, that's just not what I'm about. No, 100%. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 5:44:56

Uh mate, again, really appreciate you coming up, and you know, fuck it was a spur of the moment. Literally spoke three or four days ago, and fuck bang, let's do it. And because you're busy for the next uh few days for the surgery and whatever you call it that, whatever, yeah, whatever. But um, yeah, and uh yeah, yeah, get the story out. And I know you've been on a couple of other podcasts, but it's probably not to this extent.

SPEAKER_01 5:45:17

No, this has been great, man. I like I love this format, man. You know, just a couple of blokes can sit here and shoot the shit. It's like sitting in the breeze wave, just bobbing off. Yeah, and we'll do it again one day. 100%. I've got a couple of ideas that I want to run by you. Like it's your platform, but it you know, maybe like a yeah, I'll you don't even have to run it by me. Let's do it. No, yeah, it'll be fun. Yeah, it's Bruce McAvene said it'll be special. It'll be special. Bruce McAvene. Where is that bloke? Is he? Oh, he's still around. He he got cancer, did he? Yeah, and he he almost checked out, but he's still on the scene. Yeah, right. Yeah, he still comes. Oh, you did a little bit at the Olympics, um, but yeah, he's still around. Yeah, that guy has a fucking encyclopedic when it comes to sport.

SPEAKER_03 5:45:58

That fucking guy, man, he's like the fucking yeah, see our age group, you know, that's growing up, he was the guy. He was the guy on TV all the time. Yeah, as Bruce McAvaney just presenting something.

SPEAKER_01 5:46:08

And and the old school days of the footy show with Sam Newman and fucking Eddie Maguire. Like old Sam Sam Madman, yeah. Fucking crazy. All right, mate.

SPEAKER_03 5:46:19

Yeah, mate, and I appreciate it. Time for you to get back. Thanks for having me, man. It's been a blast. Awesome. All right, man. Catch you.