3 tips to Reduce Anxiety from a Certified Positive Psychology Coach

✅ Embracing the Journey: The Positive Psychology of Leadership

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Key Highlights: 📌
🔗 The Interconnection of Leadership and Well-being: Delving into how leadership impacts team mental health and vice versa.
🧠 The Power of Empathy: Cultivating understanding and compassion in leadership.
🌱 Growth Through Curiosity: The importance of inquiry and open-ended questions in fostering a supportive work environment.
🏅 The Platinum Rule in Practice: Treating others as they wish to be treated for a more inclusive workplace.

In our enlightening discussion on the Anxiety at Work podcast, Dr. Craig Dowden enlightens us with his approach to leadership through the lens of positive psychology. A champion for ethical leadership, Dr. Dowden shares how creating a culture of empathy and transparency can significantly alleviate workplace anxiety. With insights from his best-selling book, "Do Good to Lead Well," Dr. Dowden inspires a move towards understanding the individual needs and drivers of team members, showcasing the profound impact of individualized leadership.

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Transcript

You know, we need people around us that can guide us through tough times, can guide us through anxiety, stress, especially at work. And that's why I'm so excited to welcome our sponsor to the show, Lifeguides. Lifeguides is a peer-to-peer community that helps people navigate through their day-to-day stressors by providing a place of empathy, listening, wisdom, and support with a guide who has walked in your shoes experiencing the same challenge or life experience as you. You know, when we are anxious, we need help. We need a guide. And that's what LifeGuides does. So to offer your team this service and show that you care, all you got to do is go to lifeguides.com forward slash schedule a demo and add the code Healthy2021 into the text box and you'll get two months of their free service. Think about it, two months to have a life guide to walk you through anxiety in life and anxiety at work. So excited to welcome them to our podcast. Remember, it's lifeguides.com forward slash schedule a demo and in the text box, all you got to do is put in Healthy2021. Thank you, Lifeguides. Welcome to the Anxiety at Work podcast. I'm Chester Elton and this is my co-author and dear friend, Adrian Gostin. We hope that this time you're going to spend with us will help remove the stigma of anxiety and mental health in the workplace and in your personal life. We invite experts from around the world of work and life to give us ideas and most importantly tools to deal with anxiety in our world. And our guest today is our new friend Dr. Craig Dowden. Craig is a doctor of positive psychology, a member of the Forbes Coaches Council and an executive coach and speaker on how to make leadership excellence an Everyday practice his first book was a bestseller do good to lead well the science and practice of positive leadership has helped many bridge the gap between science and Practical leadership, so welcome to the show Craig. We're delighted to have you on the podcast Thank you so much the pleasure is all mine and absolutely thrilled to be a part of such an essential conversation, especially in the period of time that we're in and Congratulations to you and Adrian in terms of the success of the response to this podcast Thank You Craig and by the way Craig is has his computer or has his Microphone on one of our leading with gratitude books We don't care how the book is used as long as it's used. Well, I'm glad you mentioned that, so I won't as a coffee holder. So there you go. That's great. Hey, and we really like the idea, Craig, you present in your book that we should try to set a standard of goodness for ourselves as leaders that we'd like to see others live up to and ourselves live up to. So tell us a little bit about what it means for managers to do good and especially how that could impact the mental health of our team members. Well, and it's such an important point and it's something that globally has an impact. So when you look at the evidence, look at the research, people want to make a contribution to something above and beyond themselves, bigger than self goals as I've heard them called and it's so inspiring. And Kim Cameron, the co-founder of the Center for Positive Scholarship, Organizational Scholarship out of the University of Michigan talked about how contribution goals are significantly more engaging and impactful than achievement goals. And so when we can make a difference in other people's lives, that's so inspiring to them. And I love that. And in your white paper around the motivators assessment, the top engagement predictor around the world, which I thought was amazing, is making an impact. And you raise such an important point, Adrian, around, so how does that impact mental health? Well, when I feel that my manager, my leader, is truly invested in making a difference, making a positive difference, well then, now I'm freer to share my challenges, my opportunities, what do I need? And so in that conversation, now you open up such a rich dialogue to connect. And as we navigate through challenging times, the number one thing, we need support and we need individualized support and to be able to feel safe to share what we need. So when managers look at making an impact, it has extraordinary benefits for themselves as well as the teams that they support. Yeah, I love that. Being a part of something bigger than ourselves. I think we're all looking for that. And impact, we're finding, especially in younger generations, is how am I not just making a better product, but making the world a better place? You know, you talk about in your book, Do Good to Lead Well, ideas like civility and humility that seems to be absent from a lot of the conversations we're having lately. Talk about your career journey. What led you to gravitate towards these ideas and positive attributes for leaders? Well, thank you for asking that question. And it was the inspiration behind writing my book, Do Good to Lead Well, because, and that was one of the reasons I wanted to pursue my PhD in psychology with specialization in business. And I am a huge advocate of data and evidence-based practice. And one of the interesting things that I found in my career, as well as when you look through popular media, was that the most popularized leaders were arrogant, self-centered and focused, and more toxic in orientation. And then when I was coaching leaders, they would say, well, is that how you have to get ahead? Is that essentially, do you sacrifice integrity for results? And for me, the evidence told the exact opposite story. You do good and you lead well, just like you found in your research around the world. And it's such a powerful combination, so they're not offering contrary to each other, they're quite supportive. And so elements like humility and elements like civility are not weakness. In fact, they are celebrated as strength. Anecdotally, when you talk to team members about, well, what happens when your leaders show vulnerability, when they're open about what's happening, when they engage in respective dialogue, they will say, wow, it's so inspiring to see. If my leader is being open and transparent about the challenges they have or what we need to do as a collective to move forward, it's extraordinarily engaging. And I wonder if I would have the strength to do that. So interestingly enough, not only does the evidence support that concept and idea, anecdotally when you speak to people, it's very powerful. You have such a positive impact. You know, we've been doing a lot of work on this idea of transparency and vulnerability, you know, particularly in hard times. Are you seeing the necessity for this civility and humility and transparency to be more important as we've gone through the pandemic? Have you seen a greater need for that? For sure, I would wholeheartedly agree with that. And I think when you look at both anecdotally conversations that you have, as well as the evidence that's emerging, I know Francesca Gino at a Harvard Business School came out with a compelling article in the Wall Street Journal, where she talked about how leaders who are more open and vulnerable about what's happening, transparency about the situations that they're dealing with as well as the organization is facing that leads to higher levels of resiliency. And I think this these concepts have always been important these skills if you will yet in times of crisis absolutely come to the of are of paramount importance and I think with wrapped within that you can see how people talk a lot about the importance of psychological safety. So do I feel comfortable sharing my ideas and perspectives without fear of reprisal? And that relates to, well, what do I need for my leader and my organization as I navigate this challenge? Well, how can you possibly create that environment when it's absent of respect and humility? They are absolute cornerstones of creating that type of dialogue. So I think I wholeheartedly agree. These skills, always important and now are of paramount importance. You know, and I think one of the things, Craig, is that, you know, as you're talking, I think, you know, many of our listeners are going, okay, it makes complete sense. The problem is my leader thinks he or she is really good at this stuff. What we found, and I think your research probably would say the same, is that sometimes managers think they're more caring, empathetic, vulnerable than they really are. Anxiety gets ramped up because maybe they're creating more angst because they think they're great leaders and perhaps they're falling short a little bit. How can managers get a more accurate view of their performance in these really important, we call them almost soft skills, but they're vital skills. For sure, and I love the point that you're making, Adrian, and it's that universal struggle that we all have, which is the self-serving bias. I'm much more inclined to think I'm awesome and the challenges with everybody else around me. And to your point, when you ask people how ethical are they in their everyday practice, how empathetic are they, well, commonly you find. I do webinars where I ask people, how open are you to feedback? And then they will say, oh yeah, absolutely. And then I ask, well what about your colleagues? No way, not a chance. And I love that point. And I think what's interesting about that is that we can have that self-serving bias, which can undermine. And what I love about the point that you're making as well, if I think that I'm more empathetic than I am, then I can react negatively when I get data around suggesting a contrary perspective, which can lead to conflict because in my mind, hey I'm doing fantastic work. I love the question also how do we counteract this? Well one of the most powerful things that we can do and every single one of us can do it every single day and it's free, is ask Ask for feedback. Ask friends, ask family members, ask team members, ask stakeholders, customers, give us feedback. It does not have to take a lot of time. A simple question about what should I continue doing? That's one simple question that I could, what should I start doing? What should I stop doing? Continually gather data around that. And people are more than willing to share their observations about us. Give us advice, that's something you always find. I love the expression, take my advice because I won't use it anyways. So it's a wonderful way to be able to get invaluable information. A couple of things I would add to that though, especially if we're not in the habit of asking for feedback. A couple of things. Number one, make sure we explain why. Why the feedback is important to us. And I love the work of Barbara Fredrickson, one of the top positive psychologists in the world, who says, none of us can be at our best without the support of all of us. So I can come to you and Chester and say, hey, I really need your feedback. You're a valuable source for me, you're in my orbit, can you please let me know when I'm doing things well so I can replicate that, as well as when I'm not doing things so well and I'd rather hear that from you rather than hear it from someone else. And here's another Jedi trick if you will to get even better quality feedback is let people know how you want to receive the feedback because I can know that you're interested Adrian in getting feedback from me yet then I struggle with, well, how is the best way to deliver it? So some people just want it straight between the eyes, right? Just don't sugarcoat it, let me know. And others will say, well, give me a little bit of time, set up the conversation, kind of ease into it. They're all perfectly natural, perfectly right, and yet, you know, want to give people that advanced insight. So once I know the why and the how, it maximizes the chances I'll be able to figure out those gaps. That's great feedback, Craig. And one of the things we say is when you look when you are receiving feedback as a leader, there's only really one answer, and that is thank you. It's not, well, yeah, but I do that because there's no yeah buts. There's only thank you, right? I love that point, and you're absolutely right. These are all invaluable data points. And whether or not we agree or disagree, that's an entirely separate piece. And it's an important point of reflection, thanking the other person, expressing gratitude, because they took the time to share information with us that they hoped we would find valuable. And in fact, we likely have asked for it. So let's take advantage of that and say, thank you. That's great. You know, it's interesting as you're talking about this how he can be Delusional, you know and deceive ourselves as to where we are and where we think we are. My dad had a great expression he'd say See that guy over there if you could buy him for what he's worth and then sell him for what he thinks he's worth You could make a killing And we all do it I got a borrow I've got to borrow. Absolutely. I'll borrow that for sure. Well, listen, you talk about your book about the Good Samaritan. And I love it. It's a very interesting idea. And of course, it's a parable that most of us are very familiar with. What we've found in our work is that people are hesitant to be the Good Samaritan because of the consequences. If they offer that help and it goes badly, they'll get blamed for the outcome. So, how do you help leaders benefit in modern business and bringing that sort of good Samaritan attitude into their leadership style? Well, and I think it's such an important point and such an important question, and I think, and we can, we can hesitate around, okay, so what are going to be the consequences? Well, several points of emphasis that I like to talk about is, number one, there's overwhelming evidence that shows the benefits of helping others. Physiologically, from a physical health standpoint, psychologically, emotionally, it benefits us. On top of that, there's fascinating work. One of the most fascinating studies I came across is when we are feeling time pressured, one of the best ways to mitigate that, to reduce that feeling of time pressure, is actually to offer assistance for other people. It makes us feel more time rich. It can seem counterintuitive, yet that's one of the strong evidence-based recommendations. The other really powerful thing around offering help is, well if I can assist you Chester or Adrienne with something, well it also inspires me around having a sense of agency myself. So if I can support you as you're moving through something, well hey, I should have the same capability to be able to support myself through that process. And I think one of the powerful ways that we can do this, and it links back to the feedback conversation, is ask people how we can best support them. What are the best ways? And this is where, going back to Adrian's point about unintended consequences, is that sometimes we step in and make assumptions around what we think people need and take action around that prematurely before we ask questions. So why is it so hard for modern day leaders? I mean, you mentioned a little bit about the modeling they see other leaders do it. Why is being kind and civil and empathetic and the Good Samaritan, why is that just, at least it seems so hard for people to incorporate? I think it's a couple of things. First off, I think there is leaders feel, well why else am I in the role? Like how do I actually deliver value? And I need to have the answer on things. And so offering help, I'm gonna come up with what's required in this situation. And so you know putting my ego aside and doing these pieces just isn't part of it. And I think it is challenging. We can get overwhelmed with our day-to-day practice. What's going on in our calendars that we're trying to balance? And going back to the initial question about being more intentional about our activities during the day. What legacy do we wanna leave? How do we wanna show up as leaders? These are critical questions that we can reflect on and then ensure that the things that we're doing align back to our core desires. One of the things here, Craig, is that, you know, coming back to this idea of creating a less anxious workplace, one concept we've taken away from your work is this idea of ethical lapses. And sometimes people are very eager to seek the boss's approval, so much so that they may even border on unethical behavior to accommodate the request of a boss. That's definitely something that can affect anxiety. So how can we as leaders make sure we're not creating a culture maybe of unrealistic expectations where people may push the boundaries of what's ethical? Great point and I think a critical element of this is transparency is key. Let people know, hey I'm passionate about driving results, I love creating a peak performance environment, a highly engaged culture for performance and simultaneously I recognize that can put me at risk. My passion and drive for results can come across as, hey I'm looking for us to take shortcuts to be able to achieve that. So that vulnerability and acknowledging, I'm at risk of this, we're all at risk of this, what I need you to do is to challenge me whenever. So if I'm sounding like my drive for results, my passion for excellence is overriding our ethical obligation and the importance, the essential part of doing good, making an impact, please challenge me on that. And because I don't want to misrepresent, that's never, us honoring our values is sacred. There's nothing more important to that, because once that's gone, we've lost everything. Now you've explained it, and here's a couple of additional pieces. When people call us out on it, reward them. Thank them, I love that you mentioned it earlier, Aegean. Thank them and share. Hey, thank you so much for pointing that out. That's essential. Please, everyone else, like, thanks so much, Chester, for doing that. Let's all aspire to make sure, because there's nothing worth going through with what I propose without having that challenge. So I think that's an essential component. And then show to people it is safe. There isn't anything held back where I'm not gonna hold it against you by doing it. Celebrate it. It's a great way to create that psychological safety that you talk about, you know, to make it okay to object. Hey, these are all great concepts and stuff. Where can people that are listening to the podcast, where can they find out more about your work and get your book? They can go to CraigDowden.com and there are articles there that I've written and more information about the book, a Forbes talk that I delivered on self-awareness is also there, and a couple of other talks that I've provided, and they can sign up for my newsletter as well. Excellent. You know, it's really interesting. We talk about in our new book, Anxiety at Work, we talk about the difference between sympathy, which is bummer, dude, and empathy. I've been there before. I've been there with you. Thanks for telling me what you're feeling. So building more empathy for those who are struggling with anxiety and even anxiety that we experience ourselves is something that we want to promote. So how do you coach managers and leaders to create more empathetic connections with their employees, possibly even when they're managing lots and lots of people? Well, I'm so glad you asked that question because even though I guess you shouldn't choose your favorite chapter in a book that you've written. Maybe I would have to say and I guess it's on a podcast. It'll get out. Empathy is that's why I closed the book with empathy because it is definitely a passion project of mine, a passion topic for me. And I think it's so powerful because and there's been evidence accruing for decades about the importance of empathy. And to your point earlier, Chester, now more than ever before empathy is an essential skill and moving into the future. And I think for me what's interesting and what creates the hiccups that we've talked about before as well, when you survey people around the world and you ask them well how what's one of the core unifying life principles that you practice, they will say well I follow the golden rule. Great, so the golden rule is treat other people the way you wish to be treated. Well, the challenge with that is that it's not an empathetic rule, because it's self-oriented. So the real key is to engage in the platinum rule. Treat other people the way they wish to be treated. And one of the things that I think is so powerful, and it links back to the research within the motivators assessment that I know you've done, around the importance of when you approach employee engagement, treat it from a more individualized perspective. Understand what drives and motivates. And I think during times of crisis, and this is where we can have an unintended negative consequence, I want to help. So then I look at Adrian and assume, oh, well, based on his circumstance, here's how I would be in that circumstance. So now I'm going to propose and not just propose, I'm going to do things for Adrian that's aligned with what I think he's going through. A major potential challenge and a major potential source of conflict. And now I can be upset and frustrated, well, I was only just doing what you should need and now this is not assisting and supporting mental health. It's undermining it. So what we want to do is ask questions endlessly. Look at leadership as being the chief questioning officer. Look at our objective, our overall goal is to be Sherlock Holmes. It's not to, we want to gather as much data as possible, be individually curious, and it doesn't matter that one member of our team is having a particular challenge, we're still just as open to another member who can have the exact same life circumstances. So one of the things that I talk a lot about leaders is ask a lot of questions, open-ended questions, guard against our assumptions, and then take action based on where they need support. That's so important, Craig. And as you mentioned with our work on the motivators assessment, we've now had about a hundred thousand people take that, and it's really interesting just to see how different we all are, and yet how often we meet leaders who, and you know, Chester and I used to work for a leader who, you know, he didn't like salespeople because they were driven by money. You know, it's like, well, yeah, but you know what they're motivated by and they're salespeople. That's not such a bad thing, but he just couldn't get through that. He couldn't get across that. And yet when we do know what motivates people, we can align their work with their motivators, we can recognize them in ways that are meaningful, and as you say, don't look through everything with our own colored glasses on. It's a really powerful concept. Well, and I think it links so beautifully with the work on the motivators assessment with the anxiety at work around, so if we're looking at engagement or we're looking at managing anxiety, it's all around respecting individuals as individuals, and it's all around so how can we ensure that we're engaging with them at their level. And I think what's really key as well, it's about empathy for the individual. So we want to meet them where they are. Another critical point is for empathy for ourselves. We want to meet ourselves where we are. And this is critical in terms of both sides of that equation and being curious within our approach. Well, I think you're already summarizing for us, but as we come to the end of our discussion, that's great, Craig. You've done this once or twice before, I can tell. This is so great. In fact, for years, Chester and I worked with big organizations on their employee engagement, and what we found eventually is that we try to tackle engagement from this macro perspective. Well, let's put this program in place to do this or this, and what we find is actually employee engagement is a micro issue. It's person by person, and it's more work, but that's how you move the needle. So, Craig, this has been terrific. So if you have to summarize our discussion today for our listeners with a few points that they could take away, what would you say? I would say, and thank you, this has been an amazing discussion and thanks to both of you again for inviting me on. This is just a wonderful opportunity to have such an important conversation. I would say it's essential for us to be curious, curious about others, curious about ourselves and really putting our egos to the side. Be more investigators. Take a more scientific approach to how we show up as leaders, as individuals. Every day, gather data about ourselves, about our situations, about the people around us, and then come to a particular conclusion, which is malleable. So today, you may be in a great state. Chester may be feeling fantastic. Don't fall into the trap that, well, tomorrow it's gonna be the exact. I restart again with a series of questions and I gather data every single day. And I think in an environment that's just moving so quickly. I mean, the pace of the world before COVID was extraordinary and now with COVID, I mean, how can you predict the things that are gonna happen and moving beyond, we have to look at things, we have to be agile and adapt, and taking a more questioning approach, curious approach, an empathetic approach is crucial. Excellent. Hey, listen, it's been a delight to have you on the show. We really appreciate your insights. And just one last time, where can people find you and find more about your work? Well, thank you again. And the best way to connect with me is through Craig Dowden dot com a lot of resources there as well as the newsletter And if you want to connect on LinkedIn send me a note and let me know you found me through this podcast I'd be happy to to say hello. So excellent. Well, you know, Adrian I both grew up in Canada Craig is in Canada and as we like to conclude as red-green would say and if you're Canadian The only way you'll know who Red Green is. Hey, Craig, really appreciate your time. Keep your head up and your stick on the ice. Love it. Thanks so much. Pleasure was all mine. Thanks again. Well, Chess, that was another great podcast with lots of really good information. I really like this idea of doing good. I think it would be something that really would resonate with you and from everything you've talked about in your career. Yeah, this idea of being about good works and doing good things. One of the things he said that I really thought was interesting, he says, when you're doing good it actually frees up your time. It's counterintuitive. You really feel like you have more time because it's so engaging and so invigorating. That was curious, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. And I think he's right. Because sometimes you always say, give it to a busy person. But I think for ourselves, when we're in the service of others, as we like to say, we do feel like we are more free. And it definitely brings down anxiety levels when we start to serve. You know, and I think, you know, you talked a lot too about, you know, the honest pressures of leaders. Look, we worry about delivering value, we get overwhelmed with daily challenges, and yet what is our real goal here? It is to lead others. They're going to do, you know, the 10 people who we lead are going to do a lot more than our, you know, what we can do ourselves. So I love that idea of, you know, being very transparent with people. Look, I love to get results. Hold me accountable. If I'm pushing too hard, I want you to take a shortcut. Realize I never do. So hold me accountable and that kind of idea of transparency was very powerful. Yeah, if you lose your core values, you've lost everything, I think was his comment. The other thing I love, they continually ask questions. I mean, as a researcher, get all the data points you can. Then what I loved, he said, explain to them why you're asking for that. Now, I'm not just curious and bombarding you with all these questions. It could come across as very egocentric, right? Let them know how you want that feedback. The one other thing he said that I loved is go beyond the golden rule. Don't treat people the way you want to be treated. Go to the platinum rule, he called it, and treat people the way they want to be treated And I thought that was a wonderful nugget to take away for people that are listening to the podcast Yeah and I wrote that one down too because so often it's such a It's a better way to live because the golden rule says yeah, I want you know I want people to to be respectful and Compassionate and never raise their voice around me and it's like but I'm not that way you know the other person thinks I want debate, I want to have a fun argument. And, but we do tend to feel like, yeah, this is how everybody wants it because we want it. And so I thought that was really powerful. I mean, probably one of the last things, you know, it's just consider ourselves the chief questioning officer, you know, not creepy thing, you know, what kind of shampoo do you use? That's creepy. Okay. What I'm talking about are good questions that will really... and I loved what he said is you're gathering data every day because today is probably very different than yesterday. And he's exactly right, especially when you have people on your team, and you do, who have anxiety. The idea is their today is probably different than yesterday. So it's how you do them today and really listening and going beyond the fine. Yeah, yeah, and I loved at the end there, he said, be curious, be curious about other people. And I love that, you know, we often say, know your team. Well, listen, he was with the life. I love the Canadian accent there. That's always delightful. And we just want to give a special thanks to our amazing producer, Brent Klein, who makes us sound better than we really sound in normal life. I think we can say that. And also to Christy Lawrence, who helps us find all these amazing guests. Without Christy, I think we'd be lost. And especially to all of you that listen in. We hope you'll share this podcast with your friends and neighbors. If you know people that are suffering from anxiety, please give them the link. I think we can help. You know, check out our new book, Anxiety at Work from Harper Business. And follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook, whatever your favorite social media network is, our anxiety at work pages and all those platforms. We'd love to hear from you. And so thank you so much for downloading the podcast and to listening. We hope we're helping create a little safer place to talk about anxiety and mental health at work. You bet. Take care and be well. You know, we need people around us that can guide us through tough times, can guide us through anxiety, stress, especially at work. And that's why I'm so excited to welcome our sponsor to the show, Lifeguides. Lifeguides is a peer-to-peer community that helps people navigate through their day-to-day stressors by providing a place of empathy, listening, wisdom, and support with a guide who has walked in your shoes, experiencing the same challenge or life experience as you. You know, when we are anxious, we need help. We need a guide. And that's what Life Guides does. So to offer your team this service and show that you care, all you got to do is go to lifeguides.com forward slash schedule a demo and add the code healthy2021 into the text box and you'll get two months of their free service. Think about it. Two to have a life guide to walk you through anxiety in life and anxiety at work. So excited to welcome them to our podcast. Remember, it's lifeguides.com forward slash, schedule the demo and in the text box, all you gotta do is put in healthy 2021. Thank you, Life Guides.