3 Ways to Navigate Diversity, Inclusion, and Mental Safety and Lower Anxiety

✅ Navigating Diversity, Inclusion, and Mental Safety with Eugene Frazier

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Key Highlights: 📌
🌟 Overcoming Bias: Eugene Frazier discusses the crucial role of understanding and overcoming biases and the importance of creating an inclusive workplace culture.
🤝 Embracing Inclusivity: Insights into Eugene's personal journey and professional strategies for fostering diversity and inclusivity within organizations.
💬 Tackling Microaggressions: Learn how to recognize and address microaggressions to improve workplace interactions and mental well-being.

Join us on the Anxiety at Work podcast as we have a conversation with Eugene Frazier, an advocate for diversity and inclusivity. With a rich background in activism to executive coaching, Eugene shares his perspective on the transformative power of inclusion in business leadership. The discussion sheds light on the impact of microaggressions and their link to workplace anxiety. Eugene also opens up about his own experiences, providing real-life instances that highlight the subtle but significant challenges faced by underrepresented groups.

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Transcript

You know, we need people around us that can guide us through tough times, can guide us through anxiety, stress, especially at work. And that's why I'm so excited to welcome our sponsor to the show, LifeGuides. LifeGuides is a peer-to-peer community that helps people navigate through their day-to-day stressors by providing a place of empathy, listening, wisdom, and support with a guide who has walked in your shoes, experiencing the same challenge or life experience as you. You know, when we are anxious, we need help. We need a guide, and that's what Life Guides does. So to offer your team this service and show that you care, all you gotta do is go to lifeguides.com forward slash schedule a demo and add the code Healthy2021 into the text box and you'll get two months of their free service. Think about it, two months to have a life guide to walk you through anxiety in life and anxiety at work. So excited to welcome them to our podcast. Remember, it's lifeguides.com forward slash, schedule the demo and in the text box, all you gotta do is put in Healthy2021. Thank you, Lifeguides. Welcome to the Anxiety at Work podcast. I'm Chester Elton and this is my co-author and dear friend, Adrian Gostick. Hi, everybody. We hope the time you're going to spend with us is going to help remove the stigma of anxiety and mental health in the workplace and your personal life. We invite experts from around the world of work and life to give you ideas and most importantly, tools to deal with anxiety and anxiety. And our guest today is our friend Eugene Frazier. Let me tell you a little bit about him. He's the founder and CEO of MyCoachEugene and the inclusivity, inclusive, and the inclusivity coaching university at EF, Choice and Associates. EF Choice is a business coaching consulting firm that delivers innovative high-quality services that enable companies to promote effectiveness and efficiency across all business entities. Eugene is a former HR executive from Motorola and co-founder of Courageous Leadership which is designed to liberate leaders from distractions, fears and self-talk that derail the demonstration of courageous Behaviors well that was a mouthful so welcome to the show Eugene. We're delighted to have you on the podcast Thank you very much Chester. I'm a I'm overjoyed to be here today Well again, thanks for me to Eugene thanks for being on the show and start off You know we'd love you to just tell us a little bit about your journey toward helping others with diversity and inclusion issues. And also, tell us a little bit about how you found your way into executive coaching and why is this something you're passionate about, these issues? Well, thank you very much, Adrian. I would just say that what really kind of brought me into this, as you might know, I am African American. I was born to my mother who had me when she was 17 in the deep south and was part of that particular time of a sharecropping environment. So I've had to live diversity and that really stimulated me in a variety of different ways. And by 12 to 13, I was participating in bar cots, sit-outs, challenging racial inequities, even back in those days. And so that really stimulated me to kind of move forward in this space. The other key thing that I would just say, Adrian, is that I've always had the feel that right is right and wrong is wrong, regardless of who you are, and that really drives me to really kind of create a clinical background, a business background, and a research background in this particular space. So that's what I would say in terms of diversity. And the other question, if I remember correctly, was how does that lead me into coaching? And so from a coaching perspective, by growing up and primarily spending most of my time with my grandmother, who was born in 1896, I used to sit at her feet and have her tell me the stories of the past and really kind of understand and look at life through her eyes. And that was a rude awakening for me because what it truly did for me, what it gave me, it gave me insight and foresight at a very early age. So I kind of grew up having what I call an old spirit. And that old spirit led me really to really kind of working in the space of looking at organizations, looking at people and dynamics and studying behaviors. And ultimately what led me into coaching, I met Marshall Goldsmith in the early 90s. So I've known Marshall for over 26 years. And during that time I was just master certified by RHR International in terms of coaching. You know that's so interesting. I love that you're so connected to your family tree, to your family's history and that that's passed down. I've never been referred to as an old soul. I think it's a great compliment though, that wisdom at an early age, right? So for those that don't really appreciate inclusion and diversity in the workplace. You know, they don't get it. Like, they don't get why they need it or why that's such a big deal. What would you say are some of the biggest issues in turning those minds around? And what are some of the biggest issues that are facing the underrepresented groups, in particular, because of your background, the African American population? Well, Chester, thank you for that intro. I'm glad you asked, because I definitely have some thoughts. From my perspective, Chester, as I look at all of the challenges associated with diversity and inclusion, I won't get into just the broad issues in the environment, but really kind of go more toward the culture. are not designed in a manner to be inclusive. And so it lacks norms and values that are broadly applicable, if you will, for people to join. And my general thought is that when a person looks to join an organization, it's just like entering into a marriage, entering into a relationship, because you're spending most of your time there, but if your values don't align and you don't see support structures, it doesn't really entice you to want to be a part of. The other key thing I would just say in reference to that is that all of this around, when we talk about humanism, humanism is more of removing all of the other elements, if you will, around diversity, and just really looking at people as people and removing the barriers that keep you from connecting. When it's all said and done, we all want to connect. We're looking for a place to connect. Excellent. That's so, that is great. One of the things that we hear about, as we did our research for our new book, Anxiety at Work, we heard a lot of this term microaggression. And it's linked to anxiety at work, especially for people who feel sometimes like others, you know, whether it is an underrepresented group in the workplace, that these folks can have a very different life sometimes that others may not understand. So can you explain a little bit about this term, Eugene, about microaggression? Maybe give us some ideas of what it looks like and what we as leaders can do to help spot it and help our team members. Well, thank you, Adrian. Microaggressions is really kind of a unique phenomenon because you're right, most people misinterpret what that really means. It's really kind of our biases that are a part of our lives and our work lives that we struggle with understanding kind of, so where am I at and how does my behavior affect others? But it's all about awareness from my perspective. And the whole notion of implicit bias and unconscious bias, we do some things out of consciousness and we do other things out of subconsciousness. And from that perspective, what happens is that depending upon where we're at from an awareness perspective, we're either in the fray or out of the fray. And sometimes we step into tough situations that are really not foreseen that we're there. And I don't know that people do it consciously, as I just said, it's just a way of life. And I would like to toss something a little bit more intrinsic around this whole notion of microaggressions is that we don't realize that biases are built from day one. They're like traditions in families. And when you hear things and you experience things at an early age, you interpret them. You don't discriminate or look at things differently until you get much older when you've been filtered something different and being challenged. And so that's what I would say about microaggressions. Let me let me kind of follow up a little bit with what we found. Like, for instance, we talked to one African-American man said, you know, I've been in an elevator by myself and a white woman is about to get on. She pauses. He says, why is she doing that or an Asian American woman will say to me People ask where you from and I go Denver and they go no no no where you really from Those little things that maybe many people In a majority within the in this culture don't really realize really do affect people over time It really creates these mini T's of trauma over time? Well, Adrian, that's a great point. And my response to that would be, you're first and foremost absolutely right. So you mentioned earlier that your focus has been on anxiety in the workplace. Anxiety is really occurring on both sides. So the individuals who are verbalizing the aggressions, if you will, they are unclear and they have absence of information, facts, and details, and they're in a quandary about it, but they don't really know how to approach it, what to say, and how to say it. So there's anxiety experiencing there. And then on the other side, from a receiving side, and speaking from being African American, I'll give you a couple of examples, real-time life examples here. But being African American, on the other side, when I'm asked a question like, where are you from? And like, I'm in Texas right now, which is really part of the South, and I was born and raised in Montgomery, Alabama. So when I was in that environment, it was very clear if people didn't like me because of the color of my skin and the origin of my background, because they told you. But when I moved to Chicago, Illinois, where I resided for about 36 years, it was all undercurrent. It wasn't obvious. And you just noticed people treating you and responding to you differently. So it's really done in very subtle ways these days. And so I'll give you a couple of quick examples. I've had people to say to me, man, you speak very well. So what does that really mean? Does that mean that because I'm African American, I'm not educated, I don't have the capability or the propensity to be well-spoken in any given situation? So that's an example of a microaggression. The other one that I would also share, I'm driving, as an example, in Chicago, Illinois, on the south side with a brand-new car, and I'm a senior exec at Motorola. And I have the police pull me over because they say that they identified someone that may look like me driving a car similar to mine, and they asked me the core question, can we see your registrations to your car? I asked the question, so sorry sir, but can you tell me why you stopped me? And then there's a pause. So really people are operating on autopilot. They're really not thinking through properly to get to an end result. You know, it's so interesting that you say that. By the way, Adrian, I'm just gonna say you speak very well. I just want you to know Yeah, and for those of you that can't see me I grew up in Canada, you know It's so interesting you put it in perspective. Those are things Adrian and I have never gone through right, you know We're white guys, you know The other the other thing you talk about microaggressions is I'm a big hockey fan And there's a guy that plays for the New Jersey Devils named P.K. Subed. Now P.K. is this great big defenseman, African-American, right? Grew up in Ontario, played for the Montreal Canadiens for years, right? And it's so interesting, got traded to the Nashville Predators. And he tells the story, he says, you know, growing up in Canada, he says, driving around, I got pulled over a couple times by police because I was a teenager and teenagers get pulled over for doing stupid things in their car, right? He says, I'd never been pulled over as an adult. I went down to Nashville, Tennessee. He says, I played there for, I think it was four or five seasons. He says, I got pulled over over 30 times. And he said, I went to the trainer and I said, sign a bunch of Predator baseball caps because the Preds got to be really popular. And he said, whenever the police would pull me over, I'd say, hey officer, so glad you're keeping us all safe. My name is PK Suman. I pay for the Predators. Would you like a baseball cap?" And immediately diffused everything. So it is interesting. I find the pullover because you're driving a nice car in your African American to be a fascinating phenomenon. And the new terminology for that, Chester, is driving while black. Right, right, right. Well, listen, fascinating stuff. Again, we did a lot of research for our book, Anxiety at Work, and we see groups that have a higher engagement and greater sense of mental safety when there's more diversity and so on, right? It's kind of foundational for high-performance cultures. I feel safe at work. So what does mental safety mean to you and your clients that you work with? Well, Chester, I would just say that mental safety from my perspective, as I'm working with senior execs and larger organizations, is really about understanding what equity means, equality means, and accessibility, what that really means, and inclusivity. Because all of those facets that I just mentioned creates a safe environment where people can truly operate. And it's also, and I've said this in some other things that I communicate with people about around diversity and kind of what it means to be safe in a given environment. All of the things I've mentioned is not just a privilege for a chosen few, it's really an inherent right that those things exist. And the other key thing that I would say is that organizations really have to focus less on self-centric behaviors and focus more on collaborative, broad, purpose-oriented things that really align and position in their culture. Eugene, tell us a little bit before I think I think will be an interesting question for you, but tell us first how people can find out more about you and your work. It gives a very, very strong depiction of who I am and what I'm about and what I'm attached to. Of course, not everything is there, but that's really a great depiction. And then they can also go to my website, which is eofchoice.com, and that will give them a little bit more insight in terms of the broad totality of who I am and the impact that I'm striving to make. That's awesome. So not too long ago, Howard Schultz, who was the CEO of Starbucks at the time, was giving a talk. And he mentioned, he says, I don't see color. He says, when I talk about, you know, when I look at other people. And he really got lambasted. He was like, you know, people who are of color in this country went, well, of course you should, we all do. So explain, you know, why we sometimes, people who mean well say really dumb things like that, and maybe what leaders can do to be a little bit more inclusive. So give me a little thoughts on that. Well, the inclusive piece there, Adrian, is really more about if you have a need to justify something because you think it's a lack of, the worst thing you can do is say, well, you know, I have a whole lot of really great black friends because they're just friends. And friendships really kind of bleed across any color line. So instinctively, if it doesn't feel right, don't let the words come out of your mouth. Because it's really your instincts telling you, Eugene, you're not on. So what you're about to say, you may regret. You know, one of the things, you know, somebody once said, you know, nobody would say, Chester, you're a white guy. What do you think about this subject? But we do it with, you know, people who are maybe of color or LGBTQ or religious minorities that we would never do with somebody in the majority. And so I love what you're saying there, Eugene. If it's giving you pause and you're wondering, should I say it or don't, don't say it. Absolutely. Yeah, you know, it's funny people look at me and they'll say similar microaggression things like, you know, when I look at you, Chester, I don't see hair, you know, and that's as deep as it goes, right? That's as deep as it goes. Hey, listen, obviously this is a podcast and we're focusing on anxiety and everything you've talked about can raise levels of anxiety and not feeling safe or not feeling sure. And we know that these topics are intricately linked to that issue, right, of safety and anxiety. But if we push a little further on some of the connected topics, when we say we see greater amounts of engagement and collaboration in diverse and inclusive teams, we also see decreased amounts of anxiety and unnecessary stress. So what are some of the benefits of being inclusive that you talk about, you know, as a coach and as you train? How do you get leaders to understand that this is an issue for your sessions with them? How do you break through? So benefits of inclusion really operates in a variety of different ways, Chester, and you pose an excellent question. I have to slow myself down to really kind of think about it. And what I would say first and foremost is that it's always a great thing to have diversity of thoughts and ideals, right? Because you've heard jokes in the past about, you know, how many engineers does it take to develop and produce something to make light occur. But this whole notion is that you don't have to operate as an expert on your own because there are other people who have opposing thoughts and ideas to help your ideas be even greater. So it's all about inclusion from that perspective. And then the other key thing I would just say is connecting really with people's hearts and minds around common purpose. Because here's the issue, if I don't think that you can connect with me in any given way from an inclusion perspective, what's going to entice me to want to be a part of your environment, et cetera. And I think the other key thing is that you want to really focus in on learning agility. It really enhances that for the environment because you create very great competition, if you will, on the team for everybody to be their absolute best. You know, it is interesting, you know, we talk about breaking through and those are great ideas, you know, learning agility and not just diversity and, you know, race and so on, diversity in thought, which I love that you went to. You know, it's interesting, have you ever done, have you ever put the executive you're coaching and so on in a position where they're actually the minority. Does that help break through? Let me give you a quick example. In my faith, we're a volunteer ministry, so you're called to do different things. I was called to work with, and you'll laugh at this, Eugene, because you know orange is my favorite color because of the care of principle. I couldn't tell, Justin. Yeah, I always wear orange. I get called to work with a group of young men in East Orange, New Jersey. You can't make it up. It's just perfect for me. The thing is, they were all African American. They were from the Caribbean, they were from the South, as was the congregation. And so it was a wonderful experience for me to sit down and go, hey, I'm the only white guy in the room. And their traditions and the way that they interact and the physicality and the food, and the, you know, was really a wonderful breakthrough for me to say, hey, this is what it's like to be the odd man in the room. Have you done anything like that with your folks as far as letting them break through and have that experience of being the minority in the room? I have not used that exact experience, but I've done something similar, but in a different manner. And it goes a little bit like this. We are now in a period, and this was when a lot of the social unrest was occurring around the country. I posed a question that everyone in the room looks at me, and they say, well, Eugene, what are your thoughts and ideas about how you help here because you're African-American to be able to address the issues at hand. And I say very clearly, I'm privileged in a sense that I understand what it is to be on the other side, but right now the buck is being passed because I look similar. The buck really needs to stop with you for you to very much search yourself and to say, what should I be communicating based on the leader, as a leader of the organization? At what level of sensitivity do I need to show at that particular time so that I can communicate the right messages that are gonna have short-term implications and long-term implications? And it's really a challenge to them to say, collect yourself, reflect, dig a little deeper before she's still on the surface. Women's Food Service Forum. There's usually a couple of thousand people there. This won't be as many this time because we're still coming out of the pandemic. But what's really interesting is these are women food service leaders from around the world, and about 10% of the audience will be male leaders who are coming to support the women in their organizations and maybe actually look for future leaders that will be there as well. So what can we as leaders do to help be a better, stronger ally to those who may be underrepresented in our teams? So thank you very much, Adrian, for that question. Becoming an ally really starts with significant work from the inside out. And let me be very, very clear about what that really means. It's a person has to show up with a little different mindset, more of an open mindset, one that is willing to hear all thoughts, ideas, and views, not let whatever their unconscious biases, if you will, surface in the midst of those to be able to understand them. And I love some stuff that you guys have been doing on this anxiety side as you talk about this whole notion of assumption of positive intent. And by the way, I've been using that since the mid-90s because when I was doing diversity work in the environment, I was helping people to understand, how do you become more diversely aware? And they didn't have neat terminology like diversity, inclusion, inclusivity, all of that. But it's really about a leader showing up with an open mindset, and that's conditioning. It means that they're not thinking on a surface level, who am I? As I show up, what am I communicating that people see? And what am I demonstrating behaviorally that people see that I'm not aware of? Because those things are very important. And with my travels all over the world, what's very clear to me, all anybody wants in any given environment, if you're coming in as a leader, is to be affirmed and appreciated where they're at. I love that. Affirmed and appreciated where you're at. You know, it is interesting. I think what it comes down to is just look, treat people like people. You know, basically, we've all got the same aspirations, right? You know, our good friend, Marshall Goldsmith, he wrote a wonderful forward to leading with gratitude. And he said, you know what, the one thing we all have got in common, we all just want to be happy. And part of that happiness is we're affirmed and appreciated where we are. I love that. Well, listen, so follow you on LinkedIn. Give us your website one more time and I've got one last question for you. Okay. So follow me on LinkedIn and that would be a great way to connect with me and would love to interact with anyone who wants to get in the spaces that I'm super excited about. Excellent. So let me ask you, we've had a great discussion. We've gone far afield. We've gone up and down, you know, leaders and microaggressions and diversity and inclusion. If there were two or three things you wanted people to remember from this conversation, two or three things that they would take away for sure. What would they be? To remember, first and foremost, that your instincts and your intellect are constantly in conflict with each other. And what's important to understand, what's in the heart, nine time out of 10 is the right thing to do. And it's when you apply intellect to past experiences and influences, it change and alter and maps to undercurrent needs and or things that are unfinished for the leader. So focus on your instincts. And Chester, the reason why I would start there is we, and I'm guilty of this as well at some point in my life, I have educated myself and have tons of experience. I'm polished and refined in every aspect, but I moved myself away from myself and really understanding what that core is with all of that, and I'll call it technical stuff, but it's really more about understanding the instincts that help you to get through life is the one that will continue to help you to get through life. And so that's very, very important to really focus in on and manage the activity of what's going on in the mind, because that's the self-talk that derails us and keep us from really focusing on the right things. So that's one, I know that's a little lengthy to respond to. And the last one was always be true to your inner core. Because if you say you're a great person, you should live and operate and feel that down to your core. That's excellent. I just want to say, from your grandma to your mom, to your whole family tree, I'm sure they're real proud of you, Gene. You're doing great work. I think there's nothing more affirming than to be able to step back and say, you made your mom proud. Well, thanks, Eugene. This has been a delight. I appreciate that. I'm sure you'll get a gratitude right. We'll look forward to speaking soon on one of our Marshall Goldsmith calls. And we wish you nothing but the best of luck in your work out there, very important work. Thank you very much. And it's been a great opportunity to spend this time with you. So thank you very much. Well, Chess, that was just great, wasn't it? Listening to Eugene's life experience, I know that you especially love a good story, and his life experience must have touched you. Oh, yeah. You know, more and more we connect with our family history. You get all these DNA testing and all that kind of stuff. The oral history and sitting at the knee of his grandma and having her tell him his stories and then being involved in the civil rights movement as a teenager. I mean Montgomery, Alabama, that was the epicenter of all that stuff. So you know what's really I love about Eugene and just his way of being is you know he's been through some really tough stuff and seen some really tough stuff and yet he's emerged on the other side this wonderful, engaging man who's just trying to help everybody get it and get better. I love that. That's such a good point because I noticed from his demeanor that he is full of patience because we're asking these knuckle-headed questions because we don't understand this issue like he does. He was just so patient and kind with us and I love that. One of the things that really jumped out at me from the very beginning was he said, but joining an organization is like getting into a marriage. If your values don't align, it's not going to last long. That really comes down to this idea of diversity inclusion. As we're trying to bring down anxiety levels, we have to make sure that we're listening to people, that our values as organizations, if we say we're good folks, then we need to really live it. Yeah. I also love this. His points about some of the microaggressions, you know, the question you asked and the way he kind of put it in perspective. You know, it does really bring home that we've never experienced any of that stuff. You know, I mean, we really never have and we kind of skate through life. And I loved your comment too about people that say, I don't see colors. You better get your glasses fixed because if you can't, then there's a problem there. And these things that we try to say to make ourselves feel better about ourselves or look better or be more open-minded, when in fact we don't. So I loved what he said, if it gives you pause, don't say it. I love that. That was so profound. Yeah. So simple. You know what's interesting is, you mentioned your experience working in East Orange. You and I, we've traveled the world. I've been in Nigeria. I've been in China. You know, I've been around the world. And in many cases, we are the only white person in that room. And so we've had this. We've all had this experience where we felt like the other. But imagine if that went on day after day after day and there was no chance to not be the other. And I think that's what he's getting at with this idea of microaggressions that go on. But I loved it what he said, look, there's anxiety on both sides. We need to talk about how we share our concerns. We need to be more inclusive and understanding and a lot more patient with each other. And so I thought that was really powerful with that idea of microaggressions that we need to be a lot more understanding of where people are coming from. Yeah. And the fundamental access and equity in your group. You know, does everybody have access? Does everybody have equity and meet people where they're at? You know, I love that as well. Just so many little nuggets there. You know, he's lived such an interesting life and he's involved, as you said at the end, in such important work. I really encourage you to follow him on LinkedIn. He really is very thoughtful. He's got great experience and he's got great tools Exactly, and I think you know Eugene's closing words for us are a mantra to live by people in your team They want to be affirmed and appreciated where they are which means it's not just boy I wish you could do this this or this it's I want to thank you for where you are And I value what you bring now does that mean you can't ask people to stretch of course no But that's where you begin, and that's the beginning of bringing down anxiety, helping people feel included, no matter who they are and what they bring to the organization. I love that thought. Yeah, great session. Well, listen, special thanks to our producer, Brent Klein, who makes all our foibles go away in the final recording. We love that. Christy Lawrence, who helps us find all these amazing guests. And most of all, to you that listen in. You know, we're new at this podcasting thing We've had thousands and thousands of downloads already We're passionate about the subject and of course we encourage you if you're looking for more tools and information To buy our book anxiety at work. It can be found on Amazon and find bookstores everywhere. That's right We'd love you to join our community we thrive together dot global Where we create a safe place to talk about anxiety and mental health at work and as Chester mentioned our new book Anxiety at Work has come out from Harper Collins and we are just really thrilled with the work that does. So again thank you everybody for joining us and we wish you nothing but the best mental health this coming week. You know, we need people around us that can guide us through tough times, can guide us through anxiety, stress, especially at work. And that's why I'm so excited to welcome our sponsor to the show, Lifeguides. Lifeguides is a peer-to-peer community that helps people navigate through their day-to-day stressors by providing a place of empathy, listening, wisdom, and support with a guide who has walked in your shoes experiencing the same challenge or life experience as you. You know when we are anxious we need help, we need a guide, and that's what Lifeguides does. So to offer your team this service and show that you care all you got to do is go to lifeguides.com forward slash schedule a demo and add the code healthy2021 into the text box and you'll get two months of their free service. Think about it, two months to have a life guide to walk you through anxiety in life and anxiety at work. So excited to welcome them to our podcast. Remember it's lifeguides.com forward slash schedule a demo and in the text box. All you got to do is put in healthy 2021. Thank you lifeguides