How to Combat the Stigma of Anxiety + Other Great Stories of Resilience

✨ "Anxiety at Work": Revisiting Our First Ever Interview with Chris Rainey ✨

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Highlights: 📍
🌐 Introduction to Chris Rainey: Hear about Chris's journey with anxiety and how it affects his life, including his professional and personal relationships.
🎙️ Professional Insights: Learn from Chris, a successful business owner and podcast host, yet a private sufferer of anxiety. Discover how he balances life, work, and mental health.
💡 Impactful Living: Understand the profound effect of anxiety not just on individuals but also on their families and communities, and the importance of handling it with care.

Join us as we dive back into our first conversation with Chris Rainey, co-founder of HR Leaders and a seasoned professional who openly discusses his lifelong battle with anxiety. This episode sheds light on the pervasive issues of mental health in professional settings and the power of open communication.
Chris shares his personal experiences and insights, reinforcing the need to address mental health openly and supportively. He discusses his professional journey and how his anxiety shaped his relationships at work and home, offering valuable perspectives for others experiencing similar challenges.

➡️ Whether you're a leader, a colleague, or anyone wanting to understand the complexities of workplace anxiety, this episode promises enlightenment and strategies to foster a more supportive environment.
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Transcript

Hi, Chester Elton here and welcome to the Anxiety at Work podcast. You know when Adrian and I first started this podcast we had an amazing interview with a guy named Chris Rainey. We've become dear friends ever since. He runs an amazing company out of London called HR Leaders. They do virtual conferences and podcasts and he's just amazing. Well what makes Chris even more amazing than his tremendous success in business is he suffered from anxiety most of his life. He was our very first interview on our Anxiety Org podcast. We've gone back into the archives to revive this interview to share with you because it's even more relevant now than when we first recorded it. Because it was our first podcast, we're pretty sure that not many people actually listened to it. So we want to represent to you Chris Rainey and his story and his journey through anxiety and how that rippled through his company, through his family, and through his community. So I hope you'll enjoy it. And I always want to give a shout out to our sponsors that make our podcast possible. You know, our very first sponsors Lifeguides and we're so indebted to them. They want to impact the lives of a billion people by creating this peer-to-peer community where people can navigate their day-to-day stressors. They provide a place of empathy, listening, and support with a guide who's walked in your shoes, somebody that you can confide in, that's been where you've been. So go to lifeguides.com forward slash schedule a demo and add the code healthy2021 to the free text box to receive two months of free service. It's a great deal. And secondly, our sponsor, which is GoHappy. GoHappy is this wonderful communication hub. It's a GoHappy hub where you can communicate with your employees and your frontline leaders to send them notes of gratitude, logistical updates, referral opportunities. If you want to get a message through to your employees in a really fun and amazing platform, GoHappy hub is the place to go. And again, if you say Chester sent you or Adrian sent you, you'll get two months of free service. And so here now is our interview with Chris Rainey. Enjoy. Welcome to the Anxiety at Work podcast. I'm Chester Elton and this is my co-author and dear friend, Adrian Gostick. We hope the time you're gonna spend with us is gonna help remove the stigma of anxiety and mental health in the workplace and in your life. And with experts from around the globe, we wanna provide ideas and tools to deal with anxiety in your world. Our guest today is the amazing Chris Rainey. Chris is the host of the number one HR podcast in the world, HR Leaders. It can be found everywhere you think of when you think of your podcast. His company hosts the most amazing virtual conferences dealing with the most important issues of our times, particularly at work, and Adrienne and I have both been privileged to be interviewed by Chris and be in his virtual gatherings. It's also interesting when you try to Google Chris's bio, because all you get is podcasts and conferences. I finally did find one paragraph, and this is his bio from his LinkedIn profile, and you're gonna love it. I'm a husband to an amazing wife, father to a beautiful baby girl, sports addict, podcast host, and co-founder of HR Leaders, a cross-industry learning community powered by the world's most influential HR practitioners. So we are delighted to welcome you to our humble little podcast, Chris. Thanks for making the time for us. It's great to be here. It's great to be here. I think it's the first podcast I've been on. 300 episodes of our own podcast, I've never been a guest, so this is a new experience to be on the other side of the microphone. Well, that's great. And Chris is an amazing podcast host and really brings out the best in his guests. So tell us a little bit about you. We gave you a little background there, but tell us what you'd like everybody to know about you, Chris. Interesting. I'm so used to asking everyone else this question. So yeah, you kind of mentioned a lot of it. You know, husband's a beautiful wife, got a two-year-old baby daughter now. I never, like most people in this world of HR, I never planned on doing this for a living. I grew up playing ice hockey and I was a professional breakdancer. That was my background and I was like, ice hockey is not big in the UK so I couldn't pursue that one. I did a tour around the world with various music artists as a breakdancer so that was definitely fun. Somehow my part-time job in sales, selling products to human resources executives has become a 14-year obsession. And I think it was really exciting, you know, to speak with HR professionals who are at the center of every organization and interweaved into every facet of the business. And that was, for me, just amazing, to have those conversations every day and learn about the cultures, the leadership styles, and the products and the customers. And it was just super fascinating. And that led to us kind of building the largest conference for HR executives in Europe, which was super fun, which is how I met you, Chester, along the way, when you were on stage throwing toy carrots at everyone, which I thought was definitely interesting at the time. And then it kind of got to the point where I really wanted to create a platform where I could share the incredible work these leaders are doing with the rest of the world. And then that led to the HR Leaders Podcast as well. So the rest is history. You know, it really is amazing. You talk about virtual conferences. I mean, the last one I was on, you had like 10,000 people show up. You know, most virtual conferences, they're lucky if they get a couple of hundred. So you've really cracked the code. You know, the part of your story that's really interesting to Adrian and I is, you know, we wrote our book, Anxiety at Work, and we featured you in the book because when people meet you, you're this engaging, happy guy, you know, incredible salesperson, and yet you really struggled with anxiety for a long time. In fact, you were a master at hiding it, right? You didn't feel safe sharing this anxiety at work or at home. Well, before work it kind of started at home, right? And it filters into work, they're one in the same. You know, we talk about anxiety at work, but that's directly linked to your life in every area. So, it started as a kid. So, as a kid, I kind of suffered, I had a very difficult upbringing, you know, drugs, alcohol, violence, domestic violence in the household, and that just kind of was a recipe for disaster in terms of anxiety. And that stuck with me, and I never really knew how to process those emotions of seeing what I saw and kind of being in that environment. And then that led into school, and it kind of, again, it was something I just kept to myself. So, I was having these anxiety attacks. I didn't know what they was, right? So as a kid, you're like, what is this? What is happening to me right now? And I'd seen my mom have panic attacks, and she would never tell anyone. So I kind of just modeled that, as in this is something you don't tell people about, this is something that is not, you should be ashamed of, but this is what I was learning. So it's kind of learned behavior of seeing it modeled in my mom. Obviously, she didn't know at the time the impact it was having on me, of course. She was going through her own challenges and difficulties. So it was just something that I always thought, you just don't talk to people about this. And it also made me feel like that I was the only one. Because I didn't know anyone else that was going through this. So you kind of assume that you're like a weirdo in that sense. And then again, as I said, this fellow came through college and then into the workplace. So I was in a very high pressure sales environment, which is definitely not a good environment if you want to be in, if you already suffer from anxiety as well. And yeah, even with my relationship with my wife, there were days where I didn't want to leave the house. I felt like I was having a heart attack and didn't know why. And I didn't want to tell her because I was so worried about what are my friends, family going to think of me they're going to think that I'm weak or that there's something wrong with me or that you know there's this stigma attached to mental health especially with men as well males that they don't really want to talk about it. So only you know I'll stop there if you want to jump in but yeah so I feel like it's just the fear of kind of what people are going to think of you and and that they're going to think less of you and and again I was I've I've always seen it modeled in my family where you just don't talk about these things So so at some point though you you were actually on a podcast When you decided to sort of come clean if you will about what you were feeling Yeah, yeah, I was doing obviously in the in the world of work Big big focus and challenge in organizations is mental health and well-being for their employees, right? So I mean, it is kind of like, I felt like a bit of a hypocrite that I was doing these podcasts around mental health and well-being and having these leaders share their own stories. And I was on a show with a friend, Tim Munden, who's the Chief Learning Officer of Unilever, and also the CEO of an incredible charity here in the UK called Mind, who worked with loads of companies around mental health and well-being, Paul Farmer. And they were both just sharing their own journeys and anxiety. And Tim from sharing, talking about his PTSD, and they were so vulnerable. And I could see how empowered they were by that vulnerability and the impact, more importantly, that it was having on their employees and everyone else. And I was sitting there asking these questions, and I just felt like the right moment, felt like a safe place. In fact, the fact that they weren't my close friends and family, it almost made it easier to share it. And I was like, if there's ever a time, now's the time, although I'm, you know, live on the podcast on LinkedIn, probably the best time, but I did it and it was scary, but I can tell you it's the best thing I've ever done. And immediately it felt like this massive weight was lifted off my shoulders because I was no longer going for it on my own. And I've been battling it on my own since I can ever remember. But now, all of a sudden, everyone knows, it's out the bag, and since then, it's just been a very humbling experience. And I can tell you that all of those fears of what people would think and all of the negative thoughts I had were all unfounded and actually everyone around me has rallied to support me. And I feel like actually it's one of my biggest strengths now as a leader is That vulnerability and understanding that I am not perfect And you know, we all gonna go through these challenges together And in fact since then I haven't actually had an anxiety attack Wow, I've been close But there's all now before before I was all alone now I could pick up the phone and to my you know co-founder Shane or someone in my team or my wife and say, look, I'm feeling this way, can you just speak to me because I'm feeling really anxious right now. Before I didn't have that outlet, it was just suffering silence, so many millions of people do all around the world. Yeah, you know, that's incredible. You didn't share that part of the story with me before that since then you've come close but haven't had a panic attack. You know, the one thing you shared with me that I thought was really interesting is you're live on this podcast and your employees are listening and they had no clue that you were struggling with this. So how did you deal with that afterwards? You said people rallied and now your employees go, wow, the boss is struggling with this. So talk us through that because I think a lot of leaders are afraid, what will my employees think? What will my coworkers think when they hear it? Well, the interesting thing is they're in the room. So, they're literally like three meters away from me, you know, and they're hearing this live. Not only are they hearing it on the podcast, but they're actually in the room with me. And I would say they completely didn't know because there was times where I just wouldn't turn up and I wouldn't be in for a few days and I'd be like, I just need some time. I would never, I would be very vague about it, right? It would never be like, because of this. So it was always like very vague. So they knew something was up and they know exactly why or what I was feeling, but they knew that. Which is also more concerning because it kind of leads to uncertainty of more questions, which is actually the opposite. They were amazing. They were like, I can't remember exactly what they said, but I just remember everyone being super supportive and saying, and some of them being like, I feel the same way, or yeah, a lot of them were like, I felt the same way certain periods, and you realize that you're not the only one suffering, and some of them thanked me. Some of them spoke to me about how some of their family members, whether it was their girlfriends or wives or family, were suffering, and how that was impacting them. It also impacts you, it impacts my wife as well, right? My anxiety impacts my family and everyone around me and it opened up a different type of conversation and I felt like I bonded with them even though I've known some of them for like 10-15 years. I thought we bonded on a very different level than we had before. So yeah, it was a very pleasant experience and I'm not saying to everyone it'll always be that case because that's misleading. There will be some people that don't get it and don't understand, but I think, as I said, just being able to have that point where you don't have to, the weight's no longer on your shoulders. You know, you can actually talk to people about it. Like that alone, because I told you when we first spoke, my biggest thing I realized, I was anxious about being anxious. There's this vicious circle. I'm feeling anxious, I can't tell anyone, which makes me feel even more anxious, and then it feeds back into that loop. And now for me, I realize it was probably the worst thing I could have done, is that I was all alone. Whereas now I can just speak to people, and be like, look, I'm feeling this way. There are days I don't wanna get out of bed, and that's okay, and I just wanna let you know that, and I just need to recharge, and it's like, no problem. But it also means that when they feel that way, they can come to me too. Well, what I thought was really powerful as you talked, Chris, was to us earlier, you told us about, you know, that your wife, you didn't tell her that, you know, it'd be social situations that would make you very anxious, that you would say, ah, you know, I'm not feeling well or... I'm not a trouble for that, yeah. No, right? Those times I didn't want to turn up to the weddings or didn't want to turn up to her friends gathering and I would make these excuses where basically well, no, I would lie. I would lie and she knew I'd lie, be lying and she'd like get really frustrated like why are you, this is not obviously the reason, right? And my friends would always make comments about it like, oh Christopher, you're really annoying, you're always the first person to leave the party and I wouldn't say to them, oh I want to go because I'm feeling really anxious right now because I'd feel like that's embarrassing, they wouldn't understand. But now they know, they're like, oh it makes so much sense. It's not that I didn't want to be there, I did want to be there but I felt anxious and so and even there was a point where my friends, I'm sorry my wife's family would say things like Chris doesn't care, you know, he doesn't want to come, he doesn't make an effort to turn up to family gatherings, which really hurt me because it wasn't really the case. I just didn't feel like I could cope. So now, again, now if there's a situation where I don't want to go, rather than lie, I'll just say, like, I'm not fitting up for it, I'll make sure I'm there, and they're like, cool. And then again, it's like, I would get really anxious about even telling my wife that, because I didn't want to disappoint her before, right? Because I'd have to make up this nude lie, which what does that do? Makes you even more anxious. So again, it's this vicious circle that you keep going into. Whereas it just makes it so much easier where you can just say, like, I'm just not feeling well. Not feeling up to it today. You know, it's so interesting, right? We have all these fears about people that we know love us and that we know they care about us. And yet we're still anxious. We still don't want to be vulnerable. We don't want to be weak. And, you know, you've shared a couple of things that you do when you get close. You know, you call a friend or you call somebody. What are some other things you do for people that are listening that suffer from this and they're starting to get there. Where are your safe havens? What are some of the like do you have mantras? Do you meditate? Do you have the one go-to person? Share with us some of the things you do. Definitely breathing is a huge part of it. So because one of the you know symptoms or things is you know when you have anxiety, your heart rate increases, start sweating right and stuff like that. So in order to control counteract that I do box breathing which is kind of breathe in five seconds, hold five seconds, breathe out five seconds and continue it and then that kind of regulates my breathing and calms me down, my heart rate down because you get that kind of because with anxiety you get that like adrenaline dump which makes your kind of heart go crazy but that only ever lasts like five, 10 minutes. So knowing, because I've done research, that you can, once you get through that period, you're probably fine after that. It's that adrenaline and that heart rate increased, which is what makes people feel like they're having a heart attack. And they start panicking, which is when you have a panic attack, right? Because people are like, oh, I can't breathe. And that's what used to get me. I'd get that feeling, and then all of a sudden, I'd convince myself I can't breathe when no one's ever died from an anxiety attack. If you do the research, I'm laughing about it now, but at the time you're terrified, right? But knowing that actually this will pass, and normally after five, ten minutes, and just knowing that that's going to be the case really comforts me, and then I kind of just breathe through the five, ten minutes using box breathing. And for me, I'd always also get fresh air, just something about being outside and having fresh air helps me. So one of the things I do is I try to step away from the situation. So if I'm in my room, I'll just go into a different environment, whether it's just in the garden or outside, because I'm just separating where the anxiety started, if that makes sense, and then kind of trying to breathe through. So that's one thing. The other thing is I just get on the phone with someone. I don't face it alone anymore. If I start feeling that way, that's only if I, that's like, I try not to get to that stage anymore. I haven't been at that stage in a long while. So before I get to that stage, I just pick up the phone and just give someone a call and be like, look, I'm just feeling this way. Can you just chat to me about anything? Like you could just talk about anything, just distract my mind until I can calm down. So that's kind of my, I'm coping, but no longer, I'm coping by having someone with me on my side. That's the main thing, and not being alone. So that, and then in terms of like longer term, which I've done a really bad job at recently today, by the way, I saw this in my diary, that I was gonna be speaking to you both, and I was like, wow, you've, the last few weeks, you've been, I'm going on the wrong path right now, Chester, Adrian, I've not been talking to myself for the last few weeks. I've been sleeping well, I've been eating well, I've been exercising and I can feel the anxiety. There was, you know, yesterday I was supposed to meet Shane, who's like you, who you know is my co-founder in the office, to go through some stuff for next year and I didn't turn up, I just couldn't get, I didn't want to get out of bed. I had one of those days where I was feeling really anxious and I realise it's always because if I, you know, if I'm not eating, my three things I realise, if I'm eating well exercising and sleeping well I normally you know pretty much never have an anxiety attack but it's they always it's a knock-on effect right because if you stop exercising you feel like oh you need to start eating if any in any food because you're like well I'm not exercising anyway so now I'm just gonna eat junk food and you eat junk food and you exercise and you have a terrible sleep and again it's this vicious circle that's repeating. And I found that if I'm kind of ticking those three boxes, I feel great. And it kind of, so I need to, so tonight I'm gonna get an early night, eat some good dinner and exercise and get back in. So those are the three things that always serve me well. If I feel like if I'm exercising well, eating well, sleeping well, and we can go into each of those without the why, you know, with the exercise, the endorphins that are released to make you feel good, right? And then with lack of sleep increases your cortisol, which makes you more anxious. There's science behind each of those things that I've looked into. How much of a thyroid, or even what you eat, right? Your gut is your second brain. Right in your body, there's more nerve endings in your stomach than there is in the rest of your body and your brain. So directly what you eat is how you're going to feel. So, if you eat like crap, you're going to feel like crap directly. And I've noticed that if I eat well, I feel well. So, you're not completely helpless. I think for years I just felt completely helpless. And you can take control of it yourself, which is very empowering. Let me come back to something you said a minute ago, Chris. You said some people won't get this. I mean, this is kind of the hard part of anxiety is that, you know, thankfully you're dealing with HR leaders who typically are a little more enlightened about these issues. And yet there are millions of managers throughout the world who just don't get this. I mean, what's your message to them? How, if I'm an employee, if I'm dealing with a manager who maybe doesn't get it, is there anything I can do? Is there any way we can help enlighten people around us to this issue? First and foremost, if you're a manager, you're listening right now, or a leader, you don't have to get it. I think that's the misconception. People are worried about asking their employees these questions and how they're feeling because they're worried about actually the answers. Because what if someone does actually open up to me and I don't know what to say as a manager? And I think that was my concern. I never wanted to tell my managers because I thought they're not going to understand. But to the managers, you don't need to understand. Just listen. Just listen. And that's all we need from you, someone to listen. It was funny, I was speaking to my therapist, and they're saying, why is it that when you have someone on the phone, when you call people, that that's actually what gets you out of this anxiety? Isn't that silly? It's quite silly, isn't it? Think about it. All right, they could be the other side of the world, but just having them on the phone and knowing someone's there with me stops you from having an anxiety attack. They're not doing anything, they're just there. So you don't have to have all the answers as a manager, just being very authentic and open, and when you ask someone if they're okay, you truly mean it, and just listen. You don't have to have the answers. And then, what was your original question? Was that an answer to the question? I didn't know, I think you're getting to it. Yeah, it's exactly, it's what do you say to those who just aren't getting this, whether they're a manager, colleagues, et cetera? That's okay, I'd say, that's okay. I'm like, that's it, because a lot of my friends, the man I speak to, is they don't want to bring up the subject because they're worried I don't know what to say. And that's okay. You don't have to have the answers. Just listen and be there for someone. And then yes, if you're in a business, you can sign, most companies have, you know, you can signpost them to people that can help. And most companies now have the right resources and things in place to help people. So just open, just be open to the conversation and listen. And then, you know, you're not going to be asking you for advice advice about what to do. I've never called someone and said, tell me how to get over anxiety. It doesn't happen, but just knowing someone's open. If they don't get it, then that's, I've never experienced that to be honest. I've never experienced someone who hasn't been supportive. Never. I've spoke to people, even my co-founder Shane, he said he didn't get it. He's like, I don't get it. He doesn't understand. And if you've never had an anxiety attack, then of course you're not going to get it. But he wasn't a negative way. He's like, I don't get it. Explain to me how it feels. And I'm like, well, this is how it feels, right? But he didn't get it. It's hard to explain to people. But I don't think I've ever come across someone who's belittled me or kind of made me feel like less than. Never. Maybe I'm just lucky, but so far, there's never been an experience. Isn't that amazing though? Because when you're vulnerable to people, they're much more understanding than when you just out and out lie to them, right? You were lying before and yeah, it made things worse. I'll tell you right now, if anyone listening, that's the worst thing you can do? And I did that for my whole life, like up until like last year. Like it's just, yeah. And you realize, and I think that's something that we've seen in the pandemic, right? Is this conversations now become more to the forefront. And again, some of my closest friends have come out and said, I've been suffering. I've even found out friends of mine have been seeing therapists for years. That's some of my best friends. I never knew those same people that I'm going out with and I'm saying I've got to leave the party, they're feeling the same way. And it's like all some of the top business executives I follow or entrepreneurs I look up to that I think, no way, right? I get that all the time with me, they're like, you Chris? It's a lot of it's a facade almost. I don't go wrong when I'm on the podcast I do feel excited and happy, I'm not feeling down or anything like that, but there are days when I just don't want to be there, I'm not super human. And there's the same days where like a few days ago my wife gave me a call crying on the phone saying she can't cope anymore because she was really struggling balancing her workload and looking after our daughter, so I had to say to the team, I've got to go, I need to go home and help out my wife and so everyone's got their breaking points whereas probably in the past she wouldn't have done that she would have just powered through and not said anything and she would have suffered in silence whereas she's like she my wife's almost much more open now we have a better relationship actually coming out of this because we can be honest with each other and not feel like like someone's going to be judged. If anything, it's actually probably the most empowering thing. Well, you know, you're so vulnerable right now. I mean, this has got to be so encouraging for people listening to this to hear your story. And, you know, I've been thinking a lot lately about our inner voices. And I'm sure, you know, we've all got an inner voice. And when you're struggling, isn't it interesting, when you listen to that inner voice, how you talk to yourself, and how you would never talk to anybody else like you talk to yourself. Is that part of the anxiety loop that you keep telling yourself, oh, you're weak, you're vulnerable, how do you counteract that? How do you change that inner voice? Oh, that is, I wish, if I had the answer, I wish I had the answer. You know, that is something I battle with every day, day in day out. Like it's the self-doubt, it's the, like for me one of my links to my anxiety is about being alone. So like if I'm around a lot of people I never really feel anxious because I know if something happens they're there. Whereas if I'm on my own somewhere I start panicking and I'm like well what if I have anxiety, no one's here to help me right. So that's something I battle with and that inner voice is really tough to get over. Like even if it's a journey, for example, I've never ever travelled abroad on my own, ever, because I'm so scared that what if, and it's that inner voice of going, Chris, what if you jump on a plane and you're on your own and you have an anxiety attack and no one's around you to help, and it's like a constant battle. But now it's just kind of understanding that because I've done a lot of research around it, I understand that it's not real and it's just in my head and that, again, no one's ever died from an anxiety attack. And if I get through that first 5-10 minutes when the adrenaline kind of wears off, I'm going to be okay. And kind of talking yourself through it that way. Also affirmations, I haven't done it so much recently. Again, I've been pretty bad recently. But what I also used to do is kind of fall asleep to these like YouTube playlists of positive affirmations. It's like a five, six-hour playlist. And I'll listen to it in my sleep because your subconscious mind stays awake which is why you know you kind of wake up in the night sometimes and think there's something going on in the house because it's part of your brain is always there and I'll be consuming these positive affirmations like you know you are you know I am affirmations and you know powerful affirmations and I'd wake up feeling amazing because all that long my brain's been programmed with just positive messages and I'd create my own ones at some point when it was really bad I'd create my own ones and play them back as well and also just waking up in the morning I think you said it like before Chester is kind of getting out of bed and just having those you know sitting there just taking a moment to talk and think about what you're grateful for and for me that's you know the health and well for my family having a roof over my head and everything else we always normally jump out of bed in the morning and think, oh what's the challenge of the day and you don't want to start a day like that as well. You are right, that's probably one of the biggest challenges is that because whatever you think directly reflects how you feel. So if you think you feel anxious, it then manifests physically. You can literally, you know, it's like you can worry yourself sick, right? You hear people say that, right? And you can. I have done it. I've literally worried myself sick to the point where I'm physically get sick because I'm thinking about so much negative things as well. So that's also something I have to be very conscious But now I kind of catch myself out before like there was no I wasn't in control But now I'm like Oh Chris you're slipping off Get back on get back on the get the note. Come on get back in the gym It's like eating well, and then I even said to my wife and the team if you see me wavering Just just tell me tap me on the shoulder and say Chris You know haven't been sleeping recently you coming to work tired or I know it's not taking any breaks or etc. So like again, I'm not on this journey alone. Everyone's here to help each other. This has been just so terrific, Chris. One maybe last question for you that I have is now you're a leader yourself. How are you leading maybe your team differently than you were led? We all try to raise that bar from, you know, maybe previous generations. Yeah, like my generation when I came up was like, I'm your manager, you're my employee, you work for me, that's it, right? There's no relationship there. And I was led like that for years and it felt horrible. It's like I spend most of my life, especially more time with you than I even do with some of my closest friends and family, but you're telling me I can't, you know, have a meaningful relationship and be vulnerable and talk to you. So for now, work and life at HR Leaders is one in the same. There is no difference, especially now, right? Work happens at home and it's directly intertwined. So I feel like being vulnerable as a leader has been probably a game changer for me and the team. And understanding that everyone has a bad day and if you need some time off or if you want to open up the conversation, everyone understands. And that's part of our culture now. I feel like that's been incredible to be able to do that. And at the end of the day, if I'm going to turn up to work every day and spend time with these people, I want them to be, you know, we always like, we're your whole self to work. We hear about it, but like there's a different meaning to that now, I think HR leaders of what that means. If my background, if anyone's watching can tell you anything differently, that kind of represents our culture here of bring yourself to work because this is full of Star Wars memorabilia and all sorts of things there, but I want people to feel safe and have a culture where people feel like they can be vulnerable. And that's where creativity happens, that's where innovation happens, that's where engagement happens, and that's where the magic happens when people feel safe and valued and comfortable and that their voices are heard then You're gonna have a pretty good Time at work and a pretty good. Yeah, you know it's interesting I Feel like we've all had kind of a therapy session With you you know and in this listening to you talk and the calm and the struggle and everything you've done. As we kind of wrap up, we love to ask our guests, what are three things that you'd want people to take away from this podcast that are maybe suffering from anxiety or afraid to talk about it at work? Tell us your top three. Top three. It's interesting because I only saw your questions just before we hit record. I was thinking about this. I think the first one is you're not alone. You know? Like for me that was probably, like I just thought I was alone all those years. And it was a dark place. So knowing that you're not alone and there's other people out there, that in itself is huge. So if you're listening right now and you don't want to talk to your friends and family, drop me an email. Chris at HRDLeaders.com. Drop me a LinkedIn message, whatever it may be. I'm happy to have a chat with you. You're not alone. That in itself, just having someone to talk to, I feel like is half the battle, honestly. Secondly, this isn't something that, you know, a lot of people feel like you're kind of powerless. You're not powerless. And that's something that also, so you can do it. Now for me, what works for me may not work for you, but for me, as I said, eating healthy, getting good sleep and exercise seems to be the solution. I've avoided medication and other things like that along the way. So, try and figure out what works for you. Try doing what I've done. If it works for you, great, if not, then I'm sure there's another way. And then, thirdly, just understand the power of your vulnerability as well, I would say. It's like, because by sharing your story, you're helping, you know, even if one person hears this story today, Chester, and it makes a difference for them, that actually empowers, that makes me feel, that's why I agreed to come on the show today as much as I love you and I love Adrian is really about One person hears the story and it can impact them and change their life and their outlook then is worth it So yeah, so you're not alone you are you can take control of your take back control of your life And also by sharing your set story, you're gonna empower other people and help change their lives. Chris, that was beautiful. I've been moved by our conversation today. This has just been so amazing. I don't think, I'm trying to recall if we've ever had an ice hockey playing break dancer from the UK on the show. It may be a first. I have to look back to the... Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, and also just for the impact it can have on your own family as well, right? Like, as a part of that last part, sorry to jump in, but like, even I had a situation with my own family recently where my nephew, He was close to taking his own life, and he's a 10-year-old kid, right? This is like two weeks ago. And he was suffering in science, you know, as a kid, and he tried to, that way too graphic, tried to cut his wrists, basically, which is horrific. And I got that message from my sister. And I spent some time with him the next day, we met up. And again, this me sharing, even though he's a 10 year old, me sharing my anxiety, he was like, oh, like Uncle Chris, I'd never thought you would be like that. Like, I see you as successful and like, I'd never have thought that you would be feeling the way I am. And again, he felt like as a 10 year old, like he's this weird kid that he feels this way. And he was all alone to the point where, like, I can only imagine as a kid to get to that stage where you feel like you don't want to live here and he wrote a letter to my sister. I'm going to start crying on the podcast now about how he didn't want to be alive right and if he would have known that Uncle Chris was feeling this way in advance he probably wouldn't have felt so alone and that was devastating even now I feel like I'm going to cry just talking about it but like it's heartbreaking to know that there's kids even the kids that are suffering during this time as well um and they feel alone so it's like I feel like it's our duty to to um share our story and be there and um it wasn't and now he's you know I've enrolled him in martial arts he's started jiu-jitsu he's super excited about it he can you know he knows he can give me a call whenever he's feeling down, which he has done over the past week or so, just when he's not feeling well and he has an outreach, he has an outlet. He's not just suffering in silence. So that's just something that like, even though I shared it on the podcast, like I wish I spoke more with my family about it because he would have heard about that and then we could have had a chat. We could have had a chat, we wouldn't have got to that stage. And that really hit me to feel like, oh, this is happening in my own family, and no one knows about it. Yeah. Sorry to end it on a bit of a downer, but that was really hard to hear. You know what, that's actually not it. Yeah, I was going to say what Adrian was going to say is that's not ending on a downer. That is, That's beautiful. I think we're all crying right now with that story because you just don't know. You just don't know. People suffer in silence. I think that's why your work in HR and the stuff you're doing with your podcasts and the stories that you share and the work that we're trying to do with Anxiety at Work and Leading with Gratitude is that you don't know where people are coming from. You don't know what they're struggling with. And so it's so important to be kind, to be grateful. I love what you said about, and just listen and say, you know what? Everybody's having a tough day. Everybody is. And to not take that for granted. Even the happiest people, this breakdancing number one sales guy, hockey player, that's happy all the time. We all have tough days, and most times we're afraid to share those tough days. Just thank you so much for being so vulnerable and sharing your story and doing the work you do. It's going to help a lot of people to know that Chris Rainey can come through that and be the Chris Rainey he is. And we're just grateful that you're our friend, Chris. And thanks for sharing your story. Thanks, Chester. And obviously, I'm super big fans of both of yours and super excited about the impact that this podcast and the book is going to have on people as well, stuff like we just need to play their part. And yeah, really excited to be part of the community that you're building. And as I said, if anyone's listening and they want someone to talk to, I'm happy to chat as well. And yeah. So Chris, this has been just amazing. Where can people learn more about you? Sure. HRDleaders.com. You can find out more about us. The podcast is also available, HR Leaders Podcast, Anywhere Podcasts are available, we're there. And you also can connect with me on LinkedIn. So Adrian, I mean, what an incredible conversation with Chris Rainey. The guy is so vulnerable, so genuine, so honest. And you know, we always at the end, what were your key takeaways? What were a couple of things that just popped in your head and said, boy, that was just unbelievable. I'll never forget that. One of the most powerful things from Chris was that, I mean, for 12 years, he had this from his wife, from his colleagues, everyone. And yet, one thing he told me, that he said, when you hide that, people think the worst. You may have anxiety. That's probably the best thing they can know because they're thinking, oh, he doesn't like me. He's a snob, this, that, or the other. People assume the worst. It's better just to sort of be open with this if we can. Yeah, you know, he said, I would leave weddings early or I wouldn't go. And they'd say, well, he doesn't care about our family. And then once he said, I have these anxiety attacks, everybody said, oh, that happens to me too. They were so forgiving. My big thing was when he finally confessed, you know, if you can say it's a confession on the podcast, how he felt this enormous weight taken off his shoulders. That he was finally free of this secret that he'd been keeping from everybody was one of my really big takeaways. Another thing I really loved that he said was, you know, when we asked him about, you know, what about managers? How can they help, or team members? And he said, just listen. You don't need to understand. Because in this world, we're trying to understand everybody's issues. And he says, look, no, you're not gonna understand how I feel, but you can listen, and you can say, are you okay, and truly mean it. I love that. Yeah, he said, you know, managers, you're not going to have the solution. Don't worry about that. I'm not looking for advice. I'm just looking for somebody to listen. I thought he was so candid when he said, you know, when I was hiding it, I was lying. I was lying to people. And, you know, which is never a good thing. You know, when he stopped lying, it was much better. People were more forgiving. And that was my other big takeaway is he said, you know, people rallied. As soon as they knew I had this problem, they rallied to my defense, that you are never alone. And I thought, boy, that is so reassuring if you're out there struggling with anxiety, you think you've gotta hide it, you think it's a weakness, and yet when you come and you tell people, the people that love you will rally around you. Yeah, because some people maybe listen to this and going, yeah, but people around me wouldn't do this. They'd make fun of me. And it is hard. Everybody's situation is different. That's one thing with Chris is he gets anxious when people aren't around. Others get anxious when people are around. You know, we're all very different. But I just thought his point about being vulnerable, if people around you aren't going to rally to you, you're probably surrounding yourself with the wrong people. And I just loved his vulnerability. And the way that he stepped in to help his nephew, who would not have anybody had Chris not been willing to be vulnerable himself. Yeah, you know, I love that he did his homework, he did his research, right? He said, I found these are the things that work for me. You could tell that he'd read stuff about the endorphins and, you know, your brain and how it works. He did his homework and he said, look, these are the things that work for me. They may not work for you. They work for me. If I get enough sleep, if I eat right and I exercise, the odds of me getting anxious, you know, go way down. Anything else? Because, I mean, there was so much there. You and I could talk for another hour about our takeaways from Chris, right? So much good about how he's learned to deal with it himself, calling someone, breathing, the box breathing, the stepping away, finding a new environment, sleep, eat, exercise, simple little things that he has found that work that are very profound. So hopefully, as you're listening, you're finding things that are working for yourself. We, again, are so thankful for our guest, Chris Rainey, from HR Leaders, and for the amazing insights that he shared with us, right, Chas? Absolutely. You know, I loved at the end when he said, look, if you're listening to this and you need somebody, here's my email address, you know, chris.hrleaders.com. And I think that kind of vulnerability, and that's what we're hoping to build in our We Thrive Together community. You know, show up. We wanna remove that stigma of being able to talk about anxiety and stress at work and help each other out. Share best practices, you know, develop a community where it's safe to talk about those things and we can help you get through your anxiety. That's our passion and that's our mission, right Adrian? And we wanna thank our producer, Brent Klein, our booking manager, Christy Lawrence, and all of you for tuning in today. We want to thank you so much for taking a few minutes to think about anxiety. If you'd like to connect with us, go to TheCultureworks.com or join our community on linkedin. Absolutely. Hope to see you there. Have a great week. Surround yourself with... I want to thank our sponsor Lifeguides. Lifeguides is a peer-to-peer community that helps people navigate through their day-to-day stressors by providing a place of empathy, listening, wisdom, and support with a guide who has walked in your shoes experiencing the same challenges that you are having in your life. This would be so easy. It's written right in front of me. Here we go. I want to thank our sponsor Lifeguides, a peer-to-peer community that helps people navigate through their day-to-day stressors by providing a place of empathy, listening, wisdom, and support with a guide who has walked in your shoes, experiencing the same challenge or life experience as you. Go to lifeguides.com forward slash schedule a demo and add the code healthy2021 to the free text box to receive two months of free service. And I also want to thank our other sponsor, Go Happy Hub. Go Happy Hub is the most inclusive and timely way to communicate and engage directly with your front-line employees and candidates with a 95% open rate. With Go Happy Hub, you can send text messages directly from corporate to enable permissions for your front-line leaders to communicate with their team. You can send notes of gratitude, logistical updates, referral opportunities, LTOs, new hire introductions, learning content, celebrations and more. Easily get the right message to the right people with simple segmentation by location, job type, language, and get feedback from the field in a structured, digestible, and actionable way. That's Go Happy Hub. And for listening to our podcast, if you say Chester sent you or Adrian sent you, you get two months of free service. A wonderful offer for our listeners.