Living Reconciled
Living Reconciled, hosted by Mission Mississippi, is a podcast dedicated to exploring reconciliation and the Gospel that enables us to live it out. Mission Mississippi has been leading the way in racial reconciliation in Mississippi for 31 years. Our model is to bring people together to build relationships across racial lines so they can work together to better their communities. Our mission is to encourage and demonstrate grace in the Body of Christ across racial lines so that communities throughout Mississippi can see practical evidence of the gospel message.
Living Reconciled
EP. 80: Chip Luter's Journey
We would love to hear from you! Send us a text message.
What does it mean to live at the intersection of cultures, churches, and callings? Pastor Chip Luter—son of the first African American president of the Southern Baptist Convention—shares his powerful story of navigating identity, legacy, and reconciliation across racial and denominational lines. From being “Chip” at church and “Fred” at school to becoming a bridge-builder in ministry, Chip offers candid insights on growing up between worlds and how those experiences shaped his gospel-centered approach to unity. He challenges listeners to pursue reconciliation not just during moments of crisis, but through consistent, everyday relationships rooted in Christ. Whether you're navigating cultural complexity or seeking practical tools for unity, this episode offers wisdom, encouragement, and a vision for lasting reconciliation.
📣 Join us for the Living Reconciled Celebration on September 25 at Mississippi College’s Anderson Hall as we continue the conversation and celebrate what it means to live reconciled through Christ.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of Living Reconciled, Episode 80, Nettie Winters. Can you believe that? Episode 80. I'm your host, Brian Crawford, and I'm with my friend, Nettie. Nettie, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:sir, I'm doing fine man. It's amazing. When Austin's not on here, I'm just your friend. When he's on, you're incredible friends. So what happens to? Incredible?
Speaker 1:Well, austin brings out the best in you, man, so we can take it up a notch when Austin's on with us, man. But since we got a, really really good guest, I'll give you incredible, all right, no, no, no, since we got a really good guest, I'll go ahead and call you incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you probably go ahead and do some of the incredible. So you know, ok, as long as I'm here, man, I'm happy I may, I may.
Speaker 1:I may. Anyway, we got we got some incredible sponsors of this podcast. I want to give a shout out to them. Folks like Nissan and St Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson, United Methodist, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, good friends like Ms Doris Powell, Robert Ward and Winters. Thank you so much for everything that you do.
Speaker 1:It's because of what you do that we're able to do what we do, and today what we're doing is talking to another incredible friend of mine, Chip Luter. He is a native of New Orleans, Louisiana. He is the senior associate pastor at Franklin Avenue Baptist Church, under the leadership of his father, Dr Fred Luter, and he is also an incredible husband and father of a wife by the name of Jasmine and three children Drew Zoe, Grace and Gabrielle Sierra. Chip is a dynamic preacher, he's a dynamic thinker, he's an advocate in the work of reconciliation, and we couldn't be more excited and happy to hear more of his story. So, Chip man, welcome to Living Reconciled man. Thanks so much for joining us today, brother.
Speaker 3:Well, with an introduction like that, it is an honor to be here, man. I'm wondering who that guy was you were talking about. That's nice I got to live up to that bio. That's nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with a name like Luter man. It's in your blood. Yes sir, yes sir.
Speaker 1:I got one or two right right. I mean for the first introduction of Nettie. Nettie's looking for more. The second introduction for Chip Chip's. Like man, you gave me so much I don't even know what to do with it.
Speaker 2:I got one out of two Good deal, man.
Speaker 1:Hey, chip, why don't you start by telling us a little bit, brother, about your story of faith, man, how you came to faith in Christ and how you ended up in the vocation of pastoral ministry? Yeah, talk to us a little bit about that pastoral ministry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, talk to us a little bit about that. Sure, brother, it's been a joy once again to be with you. I mean, I came to faith to Christ at a young age. Obviously, growing up in church, my dad's been a pastor. Matter of fact, this year my dad had been the pastor of Franklin Avenue Baptist Church here in New Orleans for 39 years Wow, 39. But at the age of about six, no, really, no, seven years old.
Speaker 3:Uh, I made the, uh, the verbal affirmation of faith when, when the salvation of the gospel was explained to me about. This is as elementary as this is heaven and this is hell, and if you want to be in heaven, you got to know Jesus. That Jesus is where, if you get to know Jesus, you'll be in heaven, and without Jesus is hell. And it was just even just that simplicity of the gospel, of being, of knowing to be a relationship with Jesus and where that is in eternity, and then a relationship without Jesus, where that is. That was just really at that simple, simple gospel age of seven years old.
Speaker 3:But then, after knowing the Lord, really, I would really say that about 12, 13 years old was the time in my faith really just took off, because I was met at that stage of life where, yeah, I say I want to be with Jesus and I want to walk with Jesus. But then I found myself living and acting a different way amongst my friends at school and one of the things about me, because of my name, my government name given to me is Fred Luter III, but my nickname is Chip, as in Chip off the old block and I found myself, even just in middle school, found myself that at home and at church I was Chip, but at school I was fred, and fred and chip didn't act the same and I found myself at a young age, just feeling convicted and so, uh, what I I really uh believe was a.
Speaker 3:It was a youth revival. We had a special service at church one day and actually, uh, one one night, and I came out of the choir stand to come down the aisle because I knew I wasn't fully committed to the Lord like I needed to be. So my calling was that I got enamored. One Wednesday night at Bible study I left my class to go to the bathroom. When I walked by this classroom, A couple of deaconesses were teaching the five to seven year old kids class, teaching them the Bible. Now, here's the thing I just told them I will just come sit in. What they did not know is I really was getting bored in my class. I was in, so I was really trying to escape. I did the old pastor kid thing where I need to go to the bathroom, but I never returned. But the Lord set me up because I sat in that class and, man, I'm watching these ladies teach these kids the Bible and I'm like man, I kind of I want to try this out. And they and, uh, uh, lo and behold, long story short, they, let me try it out. And I enjoyed it so much that it became something I wanted to do more. And, man, I got you know.
Speaker 3:God gave me opportunity to be trained as a Sunday school teacher at the church, and so in my teenage years I was being mentored and being trained to be a teacher in Sunday school. Of course, I only taught the young kids and then, but then that ended up leading to a calling to preach the, preach the gospel, at about at 16, 16 years old, I was at a. I've had a school which is part of my story is I was at a Catholic, a predominant white Catholic school called Brother Martin High School, and being raised Baptist. That's the part about my story that's interesting too. Even though I'm raised in the black Baptist Church, my elementary and middle school were predominantly white Lutheran school. My high school was a predominantly white Catholic school, and then I ended up going to college at a predominantly white Baptist college, and so I've had this interdenominational mixture of my life.
Speaker 3:But it was at Brother Martin when I was asked to give a reflection at the Grandparents Day Mass. And here I am thinking why would they ask me to do this at a Grandparents Day Mass? Because I'm growing up Baptist? You know, there's other white Catholic boys here. You could ask them why ask the black Baptist kid to come be part of this? But here's how God showed me what he was doing.
Speaker 3:I spoke at that mass and I literally did it just because I was asked and I didn't think, no, none big will be come out of it. But man, it was an elderly white Catholic lady that came up to my mom after that and said ma'am, is this your son? I said yes, ma'am. Um, my mom said yes, ma'am, this is my son. She said I just want to let you know. If there were more young men in this world like your son, this world would be a better place. And, Brian Natty, I'm telling you it crushed me because here I'm looking at my age, my race, my denomination as the reason why I wouldn't have impact at this school, that my only impact would be at my local uh, predominant black Baptist church.
Speaker 3:But as I spent that day, it wasn't even a sermon, it was just a reflection, it wasn't even a sermon. I just shared on my heart what God has taught me about grandparents and what grandparents in my life. And from that day I said a very foolish thing to say, because it really and I tell everybody when I tell my testimony, don't ever say this to God. But I said, okay, lord, apparently you want this to happen, cause I don't. I was like man, I I've seen my dad, he does this pastor who's got time to write sermons every Sunday, be nice to everybody and smile everybody. I don't want to do that preacher stuff, I'll just be a good, faithful church member. But I said, lord, apparently you're doing something, cause I don't want this, but you want me to do it. So, lord, I'm going to be obedient to you, but if this don't work out, it's your fault. And now I'm 40 and still preaching the gospel.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, man, that's a little bit about my story. Now, what part of that? You don't, you don't ever want to tell God. I said don't ever tell it, don't tell God, hey God if this doesn't work, out it's your fault.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, in reality it is right. It's his idea that you do it.
Speaker 1:It is, which, I guess, is why he assures that it will not fail if it's his idea right. There you go, there you go Once again.
Speaker 3:I'm 16 years old. That's how you pray when you're 16. You talk to God.
Speaker 2:Like you got no prayer.
Speaker 1:Right, you mentioned it already from the outset.
Speaker 1:you know that you're following in the the the the shoes in many ways, you know, or, or that there's been a a trail that's been blazed for you, uh, with, with a father in ministry. Um, your father just so happens to be, uh, the first African American man who was elected president of the Southern Baptist convention, and so you talked about this ideal of being Chip in one circle and then being Fred when you go to school and places like that, and what other ways do you feel like having that trail blazed in such a way? How has, how has that shaped you, I guess? I guess in ways that are good and healthy and in, maybe, some lessons learned in terms of ways that it wasn't healthy.
Speaker 1:How has that shaped you?
Speaker 3:yeah, I have a very um, what's unique about, uh, how I respond to questions like that, because I've had it in many different forms, whether questioned as well as you question it as well as questions like, well, what is it like in your dad's shadow, and all that. But I really what I tell people is it's interesting. What's fascinating for me is to say it was once I got, once I owned my faith as my own, and it wasn't just the faith from my parents, because we always have that place where, when you accept Christ at a young age, still in a large part you've received that faith from what's been passed down to you and so you know the faith. But then there's a transition where you own your faith and I would say for me, once I started to really own my faith, where I was a personal walk with the Lord for myself, that that church was not just why I have to be there because my dad's the pastor. Oh, I have to do this because you know, once I really owned it as no man, just that I saw the word of God open up and even though, as I started to walk in my calling more, I noticed to appreciate what's been trailblazed, that God's used my dad to open so many doors. But the truth of the matter is, even if my dad opens the door, I still got to walk through it, and so I began to really see myself as an extension of my mom and dad's ministry, the more I really owned my faith, to see it as, yeah, this is what what God is doing through them, and now he's doing it through me. But before I really owned my faith, I it as, yeah, this is what what God is doing through them, and now he's doing it through me.
Speaker 3:But before I really owned my faith, oh, man, I it was a, it was a, it was a battle sometimes, because it felt like, well, I'm Fred and Elizabeth's son, I can't do anything, you know, I I'll still. I'll share this very quick story. It's just that, uh, even, uh, at school, man, I had some friends where I was part of the NGROTC group and we had a drill meet one day, and after and after the drill meet was done, uh, they said, hey, man, we're going all out to eat, uh, afterwards. And so my parents were there and I and uh, they said, hey, fred, you want to come? And I said, oh, yeah, man, come on, let's? Um, yeah, man, I'd love to go. And then I told my parents hey, they're all going out to eat lunch. They're all going out to eat. Can I go with them? I said where are y'all going? And so I asked my friends where they're going. I cannot make this up. My friends were going to Hooters.
Speaker 2:So guess what Fred Elizabeth said you are not going to Hooters but.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to go home. Yeah, they don't care what people say about the wings, I just wasn't going because so obviously moments like that as a kid you're thinking, man, I can't go. You know my friends are going, I want to go. But obviously it took time and I think one of the great things that God, the best thing God, could have done, is my first work in vocation ministry was in youth ministry and I think that was the best thing the Lord could have done because it was a different sphere of ministry than my dad. My dad's ministry was more to adults and especially from the convention level of what he was doing there. But youth ministry, you know, teenagers didn't know who Fred Luter Jr was.
Speaker 3:They didn't know about that. Southern Baptist Convention president. Matter of fact, still to this day, if I end up going to preach somewhere for sometimes I still get invited for certain youth events it'll be the leaders or the chaperones that'll be. You know what? I heard your dad preach, you know, but these teenagers have no clue who my dad is. And so the blessing of that was that it was just this balance of that. Hey, you know, I can't just walk into a room and like, oh, your friend Luther's son, that would only happen with the adults and those who knew from the convention. But most of the rooms.
Speaker 3:If I walked in ministering to teenagers, hey, man, I had to, I had to earn, I had to earn the influence in the room and connect with the people that were there. So, so, so, yes, that's what I would really say, man. For me, man, my dad's opened a lot of good doors for me. But for me, I got better with being knowing whose son I am when I really started to own my faith and knowing, ultimately, I'm God's son. So when I, as I, got my identity in Christ and even my identity as what God has placed me to do in ministry, that's when I'd be able to, could embrace a lot more, and that I don't get disappointed if people say, oh, you're Fred's son or I. You know it's like not had. I've not tried to utilize my dad's name to get me into places, but because I started my area in youth ministry and uh and man, you guys know, with teenagers that's a whole different level of ministry than ministering to a doctor.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, talk, talk to us a little bit, chip. I'm sorry, go ahead, natty, jump in.
Speaker 2:Talk to us a little bit, Chip, I'm sorry, go ahead, Natty, jump in. I can just say that teenage ministry is brutal and it's a bully. You know in terms of how they operate. But, Fred, I wanted to. You talked about your diversity, of being at the Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, and then you go home, you got to be black and Baptist and all that stuff. How is that working out in those spaces and outside of those spaces and those spaces combined?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll tell you what I did not know, because I can look back on it now and now see what the Lord was doing. Man, I've been so blessed and honored to be able to preach in so many different environments, matter of fact, even at some. At one point last year, I think it was last year at one point last year I had, you know, I was preaching at my church on on one day and then, after preaching at church, of course we're still a predominantly African-American church. So I'm preaching on a Sunday morning at Franklin Baptist Church. Then a couple of days later I'm getting on a plane, really a day later, because I was preaching on Tuesday. So I got on a plane. Monday I'm flying to Riverside, california, to preach chapel at California Baptist University. Wow, and so you just look at the contrast of those crowds, of a predominant African-American Sunday morning experience and then a predominant white college which still has a good mixture, because they're not just white students there, there's African-American, there's international students there, and so not only was it just a difference in demographic by way of race, but it was also by age. And then, at the same time, I've had opportunities to be part of certain interdenominational things and I've been in meetings, even at a local. We have a local organization in New Orleans called Together New Orleans that does a lot of work together and there are different universalist churches and Presbyterian churches, and so what I think has been the best thing that's helped me is that I've had a ministry where I can walk in any room and feel comfortable. I never have to worry about, I never immediately worry about how are people just taking me in and looking at me. I go engage them.
Speaker 3:And I think because I've had that kind of experience, because even the way I ended up at a Catholic school was that I had a white friend named George who was my good friend in middle school at a Lutheran school called St Paul Lutheran no, I'm sorry, that was Prince of Peace, lutheran, yeah, but at Prince of Peace, when I was at Prince of Peace with George, I think around our seventh grade year, his brother was a drum major, a band director, band leader at Brother Martin High School he was. He was the. He wasn't a band director, but you know when, when you're a student, drum is a drum major. He wasn't the band director, but you know, when you're a student he's a drum major. I forgot, but because he led the band he could get us free tickets to the football games. So I would go with George to Brother Martin's football games as a middle schooler. So of course when I'm looking at high schools to go to, I check out brother Martin, cause I was already going to the football games in George man, that was my guy.
Speaker 3:I I would have never known what the band queen was If not for my friend George, like, like when I had to be get exposed to other types of music outside of my my you know, cause I grew up Baptist man, I'm used to man. I never forgot. I hung out with George one day and he put on Bohemian Rhapsody. I had never heard this song and it was great and so. But of course, because I was my friend and I checked out of school and I loved it, I went there and so I had this, these different worlds between being and been with a predominant white population of students during my school days but then being at my Black Baptist church.
Speaker 3:And I think what it's done for me to this day is how I communicate and how I engage any audience, because I've formed significant relationships with people who are outside of my race, relationships with people who are outside of my race and also it's helped me not to generalize, because I think that's a big thing and when it comes to racial reconciliation, it's hard to reconcile with other races when there's a generalization of another race. So I can't generalize about white people, because I've got significant relationships of people who are white. I can't generalize about Hispanic community or Latino Latino community, because I've got significant relationships there and and it even became more so when I got to serve in Tampa and we served in a in a community that had refugee families there, and so there was a refugee family from Congo, africa, where we had to communicate with the five yearold because she was the one that spoke the best English. Her siblings spoke Haitian and French, creole. So I can't generalize about pockets of people, about demographics of people and ethnicities, because I had significant relationships. So I'd say that's the biggest impact about being at these different schools.
Speaker 3:And then Dallas Baptist is, even though they're predominantly white, they had over 300 international students, and so I'm meeting Asian students that are Chinese, that are Japanese, which having to learn that difference as well. So I'm so glad God got me out of that ignorance. And then also meeting Indian people from Indian descent. I will say my girl, caroline, the first time she made curry I just thought, I thought I was going to be with Jesus. But she had to teach me you got to have levels to this chip, you got to take, you got to pace yourself. But I just say that to share, to show that there's not a room I can go in and feel like I can't engage this room, because God has given me so many opportunities in my upbringing, through education and ministry experiences, to be in different environments, to just be a learner, and once I learn what's going on and then I bring my full self to the table as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I was saying in reading your bio and background, just geographic locations, just passing through those areas from New Orleans to California to Florida, it's like okay, that's three different countries there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is yeah, yeah, I lived seven years in Dallas. If I look at my Dallas Baptist University years, I graduated oh, I didn't hear.
Speaker 2:I forgot about Texas man.
Speaker 3:That's a country where you just live Absolutely. I was in Dallas from 2002 to 2009 because I graduated in 2006 from Dallas Baptist. But then a great church, concord Church, which actually just celebrated their 50 years, they hired me as their senior high youth pastor. So I was on that for about three, three years. So from my college years to working at Concord was about seven years total. And then, after being in Franklin Avenue for some years as a youth pastor here, then I got to serve at Idlewild Baptist Church, which is actually a predominant white Southern Baptist church, but I pastored a campus of that church in the inner city of Tampa called Sulphur Springs.
Speaker 2:That was Texas, New Orleans, Tampa. Did you have a relationship with EK?
Speaker 3:Yeah, listen, ek Bailey, ek Bailey. I would not have been at Dallas Baptist university if not for EK Bailey. Uh, when I was looking at when I got serious about my calling and where I wanted to go to school, um, well, actually, it was actually. No, it was right before I even. Uh, cause, here's how I tried to. I tried to trick Jesus. You know how we try to trick the Lord All right, lord, don't put weed there.
Speaker 2:Watch that weed. Watch that weed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let me talk about me, me, me, y'all were better than me. So no, but yeah, at one point in my ministry, well, one point in my teenage years, I said, ok, well, maybe the Lord, maybe it's not, maybe it's not pastor, but because I was teaching a lot as a teenager and doing Sunday school and Bible study, people were coming to me for spiritual counsel. So I said, ah, that's Lord, he wants me to be a Christian counselor, he doesn't want me to be a preacher. And I'll never forget, one of the schools that had a great Christian counseling program was actually a school Dallas Theological Seminary.
Speaker 2:And when.
Speaker 3:EK Bailey came yeah, dts. And when EK Bailey came to the time to do revival for my dad at Franklin, I told him. I said you know, I've actually been looking at some programs at a school out there called DTS. And he said, yes, but it's a master's level school and I need a place to do my undergrad. So if I came to Dallas, where would you say I'd go? He said, have you ever heard of DBU? I said no, I've never. And you know, ek Bailey, you know that that I can't, I can't do it justice. But you know, he was like DBU. And and I said what's that? He said Dallas, baptist year. And DBU was in the exhibit hall, wow. And I met Dennis Lynam, who's home with the Lord now, just said, you know, just had his passing within the last year or two. And when I wrote down Fred Luder III on the interest card, well, you know what happened next? Oh yeah, oh yeah and so yeah. But man, even when, yeah, and so so yeah. But then the eyes were open.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because my dad actually preached the convention sermon that year and so it was a lot of exploring. So so, yeah, but man, but that was that short story. Long story short was that I fell out the car. They called. I went and visited the campus, loved it, and Dallas was an easy sell. Just love that city. All the major sports are there.
Speaker 3:I grew up on Tony Evans' voice listening on the radio, so I thought I'd easily be a member of OCBF. But then when I got to Dallas, ek Bailey touched one of his ministers to get me right to church. And then, once I got to Concord, I really saw the opportunity to serve there and especially the way they groom preachers, man, I mean, it is a preaching laboratory. But the most important thing was in their youth ministry. I talked to Pastor Brown, who was a youth pastor there, and he said he said, chip, I don't have a lot of young college men in my ministry.
Speaker 3:Praise God for the ladies that God sent out to our ministry. But our young men need some men, not just in their forties and fifties and sixties to look up to, but I have men in their twenties and thirties. I just don't have around them and it was just like an instant thing, that that tugged on my heart to say well, you know what? This is the place I need to be. I know I'll be under the word of God, I know I'll get my training, but that the day of my college graduation I'm sorry, two days before my college graduation that Concord would offer me a job to be a senior high pastor at 22 years old, at the.
Speaker 3:Concord Church and so and Pastor Carter was pastoring by then, so I got to be there for some of his early years of transition, and which is a blessing to watch that, knowing that I've got some years of transition coming, which is a blessing to watch that, knowing that I've got some years of transition coming ahead for me and so I got a lot of lessons I got to watch him do as he transitioned into that role, following a legend like EK Bailey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was about to say that's a good segue to talk about when you're talking about watching, like you said, and following behind.
Speaker 1:You know, these dynamic and larger than life personalities like EK Bailey, and you know, and of course, you know Dr Luter Jr, for yourself and your father and and just kind of preparing the way your father and and just kind of preparing the way let's pivot a little bit into reconciliation, because you, you know, your father's been at the forefront of this. He, he's, he's, he's been, you know, knocking down doors that were once closed, uh, to to African-American, uh, pastors, um, he's been, he's been on the front lines as it relates to bridging gaps and creating, you know, exhibiting the reconciliation that we have in Christ and in real ways in different places. What have you learned and what have you gleaned about the work of reconciliation as you've been in these places, because he didn't go alone when you were with him alone in these places, and even you kicked down some of your own doors. What have you learned about this work, particularly in our country, but even if you want to go more, more specifically into the context of your community, what have you learned about this work?
Speaker 3:Yeah, honestly, the first thing that comes to mind is checking your own heart and the desire to want it. The thing about my dad and my mom I watched them do so much is, even though, leading a predominantly black church in a predominantly black community, because part of Franklin Avenue's history is that it was a white church for many years when it first started, but it was white flight that changed the look of the neighborhood and the community and then it became a predominantly black church later on. But I think their heart for ministry and their heart for the gospel is the first thing, and the gospel wasn't just going to be limited to only even though the ministry was pronounced black when they got into the Southern Baptist Convention, because that's him as pastor, and Franklin Avenue was a Southern Baptist church. And so that's the part that a lot of people miss about his journey, that some people think that, oh, he just chose to be Southern Baptist. No, he didn't. He was interviewed to be a pastor of a church and this church so happened to be Southern Baptist. But then, when he had a chance to, when they had a chance to be autonomous, after, you know, growing, and they got a place where the financial good where now they didn't no longer have to be a mission church under another church, they could be autonomous. The members asked and now that we're autonomous, can we leave the Southern Baptist Convention? And he was like, well, why would we ever leave? And that's when he started.
Speaker 3:Members started talking about the history and and some of the some of the conventions pass and and he said well, you know, since we've, since I've been here, the convention been nothing but good to us. They've been supporting us financially, they've done training and Sunday school. We talk about the seminary and all that. Like he said, why would? He said, but here's the thing, said we all have a past, I have a past, you have a past, and if we all made decisions just because of what was done in our past, none of us would be here. He said you would have. I believe, if I'm not mistaken, he would even say you would have elected me your pastor if you took just my past. And uh, but he said. He said but, uh, let's do this, let's stay in this convention, because maybe, maybe, the Lord, we could be a better impact to this convention, being a part of it than being outside of it.
Speaker 3:And I really believe that starts in the heart. And I think the start of racial reconciliation has got to be what is the gospel impressing? What is the Lord and the gospel impressing upon your heart in this work? And if that's, and if that's your start, then everything will happen. Because if the start is political, or if it's political gain, if it's ministry exposure, if it's, or if it's just, if it's compromising to the culture, like there's all these other motives, that can happen. But it's got to start with the gospel and I think that's the part for my mom and dad that I watched him for so many years is that you have a pastor of a church and his wife.
Speaker 3:That models reconciliation, because even in their relationships they did not limit their relationships to just African-Americans. The other part I would say is be OK with times that are uncomfortable. I think the challenge of racial reconciliation in our country, especially today, and especially in our political division, we want the conversations to be so comforting and convenient and just easy, and it's not going to be easy, um, and so you have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable at times, uh. The other part I would say watching my parents and in my journey, um, uh, knowing where you're ignorant, it's okay that you don't know and you have to learn. I've watched my dad have to have conversations and ask questions because he literally just did not know, and I think one of the challenges in racial reconciliation is sometimes especially for those of us that have had a lot of academic study sometimes we can be so well read about racial reconciliation but we've not really done the work of racial reconciliation and that's black and white. Whether you're an African-American who's read certain literature about white people or about what's happened in the past, or if you're white and you've read material that more speak from the white perspective, like the truth is, or if you've watched your favorite news person or podcast person, like all that's information.
Speaker 3:But when you sit face to face with somebody, that's the real work and that, for me, is the part that I believe is just a crucial thing that if I have the opportunity to have relationships or have conversations with people that are not like me that whether that's Black, white, hispanic Asian, you name it Indian, all in between, white, hispanic Asian, you name it Indian, all in between I want to sit down and if I'm curious, I'd love to ask. And if it's a question where I may offend, well, maybe I don't ask that question first, maybe I start with the relationship so I know where we stand, because I can't meet somebody who's not like me the first day and ask a question where it feels like I'm going to offend them. And the only example I'll give of that is I had a white brother, man, good brother, older than me, and during the pandemic, during these this 2020 season, where we were not only divided over masks and everything else, but we had George Floyd and Ahmed Arbery in these cases, man that just you could not ignore, and man, he asked me some questions one day. We met for breakfast because he was really troubling, because this is a guy, just in transparency. I'm not going to say I'm not saying this to be stereotypical of a group, but I'm saying this is where he was.
Speaker 3:He's a reform guy and so in his system of belief and system of how he looks at the scriptures then that he couldn't go with these things of systemic racism and and discrimination because in his eyes, as he told me, he was very blunt. If this was our first conversation and we'd never talked before, it would have been rough, bro, it would have been rough, but he's a brother that I know and I love he was an accountability partner and man. We just walked through a season and it was a powerful time. So those are the kind of quick things I would share. Man, check your own heart, be open to be you know. You know, educate your ignorance where you can and don't be so well, read about something and sit in front of somebody and have the tough conversations, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good brother, that's good man and I promise I'm not going to rat you out to Elbert McGowan and some of our reformed brothers out there. Elbert, we love you, brother, we love you.
Speaker 3:I love it, man, by the way, and I'm glad you brought that up. Here's the thing. You know. He's the only guy in my life that I've actually had some conversations. Yeah, we've actually sat down. We've talked through Calvinism and we've talked through about why there are the same scriptures I've been reading, he's been reading, but the conclusion he comes to, and the conclusion I come to that Christ died for all. And it's been great conversation. Now doesn't mean the fact that he changed me or I changed him.
Speaker 1:Man, that's. You know, that's one of the biggest things I feel like, not just in reconciliation work or racial healing work, but just in crossing divisions in general is that we always feel not always. We oftentimes feel that we have to have complete agreement in order to build unity and in order to build something harmonious. And the reality is that, man, I'm living in a house with a beautiful woman that I've been living with for 20 plus years. Now, come on 22 years. We're celebrating in November. In those 22 years, 22 of them, we've disagreed 22 of those years we've disagreed.
Speaker 3:That's good man. I love that.
Speaker 1:We're building deeper and deeper unity and oneness and intimacy, and I oftentimes feel like if that can be done in the closest of relationships that we have, how much more so, you know, when we start talking about these other relationships. Yes, we can have some points of contention and disagreement, but that doesn't have to necessarily mean the end of harmony, the end of oneness and unity for us. We and we can work through that, and I think that's what Christian maturation should take, should take us to. And you've said some incredible help, incredibly helpful things about humility, Cause I, that's what I heard and the ability to say Humility because that's what I heard in the ability to say, listen, I don't know what I don't know. And there are times in which, even when I think I know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:And so that requires a lot of humility to come into a conversation, to be open minded in that regard.
Speaker 3:Because it takes for you one of the things I love to say a lot in certain times, and I even want to talk about humility. You know what brings all of us at the most base level humility. At some point, at some point in our lives, we all had to be trained to use the bathroom in a toilet. Yes, and notice what I said there, we had to be trained to use it, but that happens in a toilet. Yeah, like, at some point in our lives, we like, and so it, it, it should bring to like the. Yes, you get older, you learn a lot, you experience more. You, you, you'd have been exposed to a lot, but don't ever get to the place where you've such so much arrived. And and you know, and I think you know, just like, we have a heavenly father who's infinite, and and because, and there's never enough that we, he will never be fully known by us, because we are limited people, we are finite. We are finite trying to understand the infinite. And I, and that's why I just think you got to come say, and going back to I said earlier about, do we care, as long as we make sure we don't generalize, because I told my church when I.
Speaker 3:I was in Tampa during the pandemic and doing those racial attention. I said, if you are having more conversations about racial reconciliation, if you're about race and this division, if you're having more time, if you're doing, if you're watching Fox News, cnn, msnbc or any of these news platforms or blogs whatever, if you're spending more time with these figures and you spend no time with the people, you got right here in the church, because in our church we had black and white and a mixture in between. Like I don't know that face on the news. I know their voice but I don't know them personally. If you've ever wondered about what a black person feels about police brutality, you got people right here in your church.
Speaker 3:If, if you ever want to know what a white person feels about when they, when they, when they hear words like defund the police and all that, like, ok, you got somebody right here. Whatever question is on your mind, don't take the, the, the, the narrative Right On news and you have to sit in front of somebody and you know whether your contention is with Black Lives Matter, with the Democratic Party, with the Republican Party, with you know, not, not all cops are bad cops and not like all these phrases and things that are said that can rile us up. It's a hey man when it comes to the gospel. The gospel cuts through all that, because if I have a brother and sister in Christ who may have a perspective that I'm missing, I want to get to know it. Right, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, chip man, you know this has been so good bro. Right, yeah, yeah, chip man, you know this has been so good bro. I'm even even, as you mentioned that. I'm thinking about the confusion that we often, oftentimes have, where we confuse having some knowledge or a lot of knowledge of a thing, and we confuse that with fully knowing a thing with fully knowing a thing that's good, and oftentimes what happens is okay. Well, I know, you know, I've watched a couple of television shows about black folks, and so therefore, you know, I know what I need to know about black folks and vice versa.
Speaker 1:I've watched a couple of TV shows about white people, so I know what there is to know about white people and it's like no no, no.
Speaker 1:I've seen green acres, man. I've seen green acres right, just ever expanding and ongoing, and we can't have to carry the humility to know that man, even if I've been studying a thing for 30 years, there is still so much for me. Taking back to the marriage thing, you know I mean I'm, I've been with this, you know this beautiful woman for 20 plus years and yet there are still things that I'm learning about her because she's growing as well and so, even as she grows, she's learning new things about herself and I'm learning new things about her as I spend time with her. You can't get around the need to engage in relationships, to be deeply and fully known and to deeply and fully know. It doesn't come just through watching news broadcasts and 24-hour news commentary about a thing or about a person or people. It comes through engagement, ongoing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and man, I know we got to wrap this up but I got to say just one more thing about that, as you say that, and the relationship can't just exist when I need it for a season, come on, come on, because man that's political, politically, all of a sudden, oh well, let's wrap arms.
Speaker 3:You know when somebody's got to get elected to an office. Now they want to do that. And even within our own Southern Baptist Convention, you know, I know this interdenominational work that you do and it's a blessing you do it. I just talk about my own convention.
Speaker 3:Sometimes in my Southern Baptist Convention I'm a part of sometimes we only want to do it at the annual meeting or when tensions are high, like if you and your wife only built the relationship at the anniversary time, right, or only at a birthday, then you're not building a relationship. It's got to be ongoing and it cannot just be when I need something or you need me. It's got to be ongoing so that because here if we're used to having conversations, then we never have to have the big conversation Right, and you know that, just like me. When your wife goes, hey, can we talk? Oh, what did I do? How'd I mess up what I do now? Right, but if you're just used to talking Right and used to conversing, then in one of our conversations coming up, I'm going to just bring this up because we're used to having that relationship.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely, chip. The way I define it, man, or describe it, is that oneness is a peacetime work. It's not just a wartime work, it's a peacetime work, and all the time we think about it as a wartime work.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, somebody got shot or we're fussing and we're arguing. Okay, let's have some conversations. No, no, no, no, no. If we believe Jesus, as we should, jesus says that we'll be known by the way we love one another. They'll know that we're disciples of Christ. That oneness will tell the world that he was sent by God and that God loved him and loved us. It's important enough where it should be, just kind of on in our rhythms of life, not when the war happens, but just the regular patterns and rhythms of life. Brother, how can people keep up with Chip Luter man? Tell us a little bit as to how. Tell us some ways in which people can find you.
Speaker 3:Oh, man, just obviously, I think from an Instagram standpoint, I think it's still at chip loot. I'm not the best social media guy, but I think it's just chip looter. Uh, obviously, here at the church, man, I'd love for people to know what Franklin Adams got going on. Um, so, uh, it's, uh, uh, franklin excuse, excuse, my media team's gonna be upsetting me when I this oh, f-a-b-c-nola, that's it. F-a-b-c-nola is usually the best way to keep up with the church.
Speaker 3:I'm typically preaching about once a month here as we are in this time of our transition. At one point I'll go to twice a month when we get a little bit closer to the time where my dad would be transitioning to church. To me, that's if I get voted in. They still got to vote me in, brian, but yeah, but man at Chip Luter, and I'm on Facebook and Instagram, but the church YouTube, church website. Feel free to get in touch and if I could be of help or a blessing to any of these churches or those who are listening, it'd be my honor to serve you in a way I can.
Speaker 1:Excellent, excellent Chip. It's been incredible man. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3:Thank you, what an honor.
Speaker 1:We know you're a busy brother, but we are incredibly grateful and those that are listening. Thank you so much as always for listening to Living Reconciled. You can always keep up with us by searching on Living Reconciled. Any podcast app you'll find is Living Reconciled. If you want to type in Mission Mississippi behind that, that might make it easier for you to find us. But any podcast app you can find us, we would love for you to grab it, subscribe to it, like share. We'd love to hear your feedback as well. It's always helpful, sharpens us, makes us better at what we do. On behalf of my incredible friend, nettie Winters and my incredible guest Biff Luter.
Speaker 1:I'm Brian Crawford signing off saying God bless.
Speaker 2:God bless all of my incredible friends.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining Living Reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured, please visit us online at missionmississippiorg or call us at 601-353-6477. Thanks again for listening.
