Living Reconciled
Living Reconciled, hosted by Mission Mississippi, is a podcast dedicated to exploring reconciliation and the Gospel that enables us to live it out. Mission Mississippi has been leading the way in racial reconciliation in Mississippi for 31 years. Our model is to bring people together to build relationships across racial lines so they can work together to better their communities. Our mission is to encourage and demonstrate grace in the Body of Christ across racial lines so that communities throughout Mississippi can see practical evidence of the gospel message.
Living Reconciled
EP. 82.5: Pastor Mike Fields' Journey Part 2
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What does a truly multi-ethnic church look like? Pastor Mike Fields of Triumph Church in Vicksburg shares nearly 30 years of experience leading a congregation that reflects its community’s diversity. From embracing cultural expressions of the gospel to rejecting partisan divides, Fields offers practical wisdom for building unity in the body of Christ.
📣 Join us for the Living Reconciled Celebration on September 25 at Mississippi College’s Anderson Hall as we continue the conversation on reconciliation and authentic Christian unity.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of Living Reconciled. This is episode 82.5, I guess we could say, since we decided to break this up into two parts. But I'm your host, brian Crawford. I'm hanging out with the incredible friends Nettie Winters, austin Hoyle.
Speaker 2:Gentlemen, how are you doing today? I'm great man.
Speaker 3:I'm just glad to be an incredible friend, as always. Yeah, I know, are you?
Speaker 1:excited about our first .5 episode, Nettie.
Speaker 3:Well, I guess I'm a half incredible friend then.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just, I don't know about you, man.
Speaker 3:You just wanted to do an additional episode, just so you could. You could have the privilege of calling us incredible again, but yes, you don't need to make up excuses, brian, you can just do it, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I will keep doing it, man, but before I do that, I want to give a special thanks to our sponsors Mississippi College, anderson United Methodist Church, grace Temple Church, mississippi State University, real Christian Foundation, nissan, st Dominic's Hospital, atmos Energy Regions Foundation, brown Missionary Baptist Church, christian Life Church, ms Doris Powell, robert Ward and Winters. Thank you so much for all of our supporters, whether you be churches, businesses, individuals, foundations, for your incredible support of Mission Mississippi. It's because of what you do that we're able to do what we do, and we would love for you to join that illustrious list of individuals, churches and companies. You can do that by visiting missionmississippiorg, click on the Donate, invest, Support button, and that will give you the opportunity to join that list of great people who make Mission Mississippi possible. Today we are continuing our conversation with our good friend, pastor of Triumph Church, mike.
Speaker 2:Fields. Well, Mike Fields is an incredible friend For real.
Speaker 4:Anyway, right back is an incredible friend For real. Anyway, right back at you, Nettie, and Austin as well. Great to be among friends.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, absolutely. And so I love hearing what you were describing, mike, in terms of from the very outset of Friant Church, it was a commitment to say, okay, when the neighborhood shows up, we're going to seed influence, we're going to seed ground, we're going to seed style and appearance and culture and and musical expression. We're going to seed that to the neighborhood itself. We're not going to say, oh well, we want the neighborhood, but we want them to adopt, uh, everything that we, we, we have already kind of ready made and boilerplate established for them, but we know we're going to see that I feel like I feel like the Lord is is oftentimes driving reconciliation to the neighborhood is a reconciliation of their, their aesthetic and their and their genre and their style, and so all of that. So they're going to bring a style of music that might look and sound different than mine, but God is coming to reconcile that and to and to and to bring glory and his glory through that style, through that genre, and so do we have, do we have room for that?
Speaker 4:Because if we say we got room for the neighborhood, then we have to create. They call that contextualization. Yes, yes, yes, I think a lot of a lot of churches need to revisit you know that strategy. We're supposed to be able to contextualize the gospel to the people, to reach people we're trying to reach, and I think that's. I think when we don't, when we're not intentional about sharing influence, then we're kind of short-circuiting the contextualization. Because we have to do that. I mean because you know the gospel, the gospel fits every contextualization, but if we're not careful we can so modify it to fit our own context that we make it of non-effect to the people we're trying to reach.
Speaker 4:And I give credit to my dad, as we always called him. The founding elder Church actually started in his house. But our first pastor, chaz Bosar, our second pastor, dan Landry, both of those men spent four and five years apiece here. I served them, I built up on their shoulders because this was very much in their heart. So I don't take credit for that, but I got to be a part of that early on and to pick that mantle up of recognizing. You know that we've got to look like our city in everything we do the way. We have church in our leadership and we've got to look like and I think, if you back up, we were. Hopefully we're trying to contextualize the gospel to the audience.
Speaker 3:You know if.
Speaker 4:God plants us in New York City, we're going to have to contextualize it differently. If he plants us in a country in South Africa, we're going to have to contextualize it differently. Absolutely Every city, every neighborhood has its own context. I guess you know, culturally speaking, ethnically speaking, and our job as pastors and teachers that are called to reach that community is to contextualize the gospel to them. We've got to be willing to adjust to the community if we're going to reach the community. Yeah, yeah, I'm afraid you know again not being judgmental, but I'm afraid a lot of churches are missing that dynamic of reaching their city.
Speaker 1:You know when we think about Acts 15. Oh, go jump in in, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:No, no, I was at least the totality of the city, because there's some churches that are good at reaching small slithers of the city. Yeah, but my vision is that you want to see anyone from any walk of life throughout the city of Vicksburg being able to walk in through your doors and be able to find, maybe not something that looks and feels like them personally, individually, but they're able to see a gospel. That is engaging, maybe not familiar, but engaging, because you can't establish familiarity when you're trying to be open to that many people, but you can establish engagement with that many people.
Speaker 4:Well said, austin. Yeah, I like the way you said that we, you know we don't. Everybody don't have to fit what we're trying to be. Yeah, but if we're all a part of the same body, there should be levels of engagement.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:You know whether we go to the, whether we worship in the same building Sunday morning or not. There should be levels of engagement that people should know very quickly. Hey, we're on the same team here, we're serving the same, we're trying to accomplish the same things, we're promoting the same gospel, building the same kingdom, and that I like the way you said that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love Acts 15.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Acts 15, man, it's right in line with what we're having, this conversation where it leads to basically the council saying, hey, let's not add any burden to the gospel, let's not add cultural burden to the gospel, right, and they distill it down to its potency, to its essence, so that, as it's being advanced in all of these different places and spaces, right, it takes it.
Speaker 1:The gospel has the flexibility to take on the cultural shape of wherever it is without losing its potency, right and so and so what you see, as they're gathering in, the elders and apostles are gathering and having conversations about the advancement of the gospel. They, they just feel it and they say here is the essence, right, don't add, don't bring these cultural elements from this place and this place to try to say, hey, you got to do it this way in order to be saved. No, no, no, don't do that. Distill it down to its potency so that when it goes, it can invade the world and it can take on the cultural shapes and dynamics of neighborhoods and cities and communities, while maintaining its potency. Right, and that's really what it boils down to is, how do we not compromise the gospel, but how do we take the power and potency that's in it and mobilize it into these different spaces and places. And I think we get that when we prepare to pack our bags and travel overseas.
Speaker 1:The challenge is, do we get that when we're prepared to grab our casserole dish and travel across the street? Right, and that's where we struggle. It's like we get it when we're traveling overseas, but, man, the nations are here, they're in our backyards, all these different cultures and all these different people are here, and so do we get that? As it relates to care man, we could talk for hours, but I know we got to put a cap. Let me, let me ask you this pastor um, what, what has changed for you? You've been, you've been in the. You've been in the trenches of multi-ethnic ministry 30 years now, right, and then leading triumph to 25. You said 25 or plus, or 20? Almost 26 years, yeah, so you've been in this multi-ethnic ministry space for decades, literal decades. What do you see as the shifts and the challenges between when you first entered, late 90s, to where we are today, 2025?
Speaker 4:the challenges from from 25 years ago to where we are now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's the major shifts for you and the and the major challenges that that multi-ethnic ministry faces today versus what they were facing back then?
Speaker 4:Well, you know, I don't, I think more so today. Um, we, we have to, we have to put in perspective those things in our culture, in our society that we can't allow to divide us. And of course, politics, of course, I think, is much more divisive now than it was in 1990. Much more divisive now than it was in 1990. And you know, I think that both sides, if we could say, you know, we've got primarily two perspectives in American politics, if both sides, as a Christian, I've long since believed that I'm, you know, I feel politically homeless and that's fine, I don't need that. And I think if we're not careful, whether you're on one side or the other, the minute you try to start stacking up wins on your side in other words, there's more in favor of being this than that we start losing our effectiveness.
Speaker 4:I keep thinking back to you know how, if I could say, like anti-political Jesus was, he didn't, you know, he didn't forbid people. In fact, I think he could make the case where, you know, every Christian should be involved at some level. But at the same time, I think Jesus made it clear that we, as believers, you've got to abandon any sense of identity politics, because it's going to work against us, and it's never going to. If you lean one direction or the other and you're willing to divide over that, it's never going to serve the gospel well. And I just, you know, I think too, as preachers of the gospel, we're constantly pointing, reminding people that you know, we're in this world but we're not of this world. We're supposed to be a part of a kingdom influence that is greater than anything, and you know. So we have to limit how much identity we take on of that.
Speaker 4:And I'm still you know it's still every election cycle, you know it's the most dreaded season for me, because I just feel like I'm trying to mediate, you know, and I don't feel compelled to have to, you know, to take a position in the pulpit, but I'm just talking about, you know, a church. That that you know you want. You want your people fellowshipping together, you want them going to small group together. It's amazing how much in our training we have to say now, be careful here, stay away from this, because it is such a hot topic and so quickly it can. It can, can overshadow the gospel.
Speaker 4:I think, brian, somebody mentioned earlier it may have been Austin if we could just remove the distractions, the gospel, the simplicity of the gospel will do what it's supposed to do. The simplicity of the gospel will do what it's supposed to do and I think that's where we're at again is we've got to constantly, you know, keep the gospel, the simple good news that it is, and it will bring people together and remembering, you know, that culture, if we see it, I think we see it correctly. Culture is something God invented.
Speaker 3:You know.
Speaker 4:When he divided the nations at Babel, cultures began to evolve.
Speaker 3:That was part of God's plan.
Speaker 4:So every culture is something, in a sense, that God birthed through a group of people, and so when we bring those different cultures into the church, it should be in a way that they just bring flavor and influence to the gospel, never losing the simplicity of the gospel. Don't let those things become the gospel, but they become, I guess you know, a flavor we can color in the church, in a way, the way God intended, because, hey, my culture, your culture, may be a little different, because each one was uniquely formed by God through people. And so I think that's why we have to become so multicultural minded that if we're going to be effective in reaching the masses, we've got to recognize that. You know, the gospel is multicultural and it goes right back to what Nettie said, you know, and from Ephesians If you don't believe in a multicultural gospel, you're not reading the same Bible that I tend to read, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, mike, you used the word flavor. You know I like gumbo, different soups, different meats, but when the seasoning becomes a permanent taste and you no longer taste the meat, then there you go, and I think it's the body we allow our culture, our color, our customs, that other stuff that you talked about I won't even say it to become the center, rather than Christ being the center. So, as my chicken and my fish is the center of things, I want to enhance that flavor as much as I can. So I use a variety of recipes and seasonings to do that. But I don't want to lose focus of the fact that I started to eat fish and I don't want to become anything else other than fish. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:And you know it's like salt, you know seasoning, salt being the primary seasoning, the right amount can wake up the flavor of the meal like nothing, can you know. But when you begin to taste the salt and it begins to, when it gets strong enough that you taste it, I think you're already in the danger zone there.
Speaker 4:And then eventually, like to Nettie's point, it can become like man, I love chicken but I can't. I can't take this and so, yeah, can't take this. So yeah, culture, that's a great way. The gospel, you know, god designed the gospel to be spiced with culture. That's a good way. I think that's what we're saying here. I like that. I like that. I'm about to remember that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think you know, the more we balance that, the more we have of that, the more the broader our tent can become. Yes, I think they're going to be, I think they're going to be faithful pastors in heaven. That man, they preach the gospel faithfully and they never maybe they never passed at a church over 50 and they're going to have great reward in heaven. But at the same time, I just feel compelled that we've got to make our tent as wide as we possible can because ultimately, he came to seek and to save that which is lost. And as long as I don't know the stats, but as long as I would say the vast majority of our city is lost and don't have a relationship with Christ, you've got to thank Big Tent. We've got to thank Big Tent. I call it kingdom thinking, kingdom, thinking exactly the borders of our tent to reach more people, which means we're going to have to make it less about us and more about what it takes to reach people with the gospel Contextualization. That's what we're back to.
Speaker 3:Right and I like that, I like what everything we're talking about and of course, I don't think that we're at risk of doing that here. But one of the things I've seen is creating an abstraction out of the gospel. You've just made it out of a certain set of principles and then, once we create the principles, we don't dig back into the Bible to understand how the gospel really interacted with the culture that God is interacting with in the, uh, in the, in the scripture. I never, never. I want to make sure we're never forgetting that piece.
Speaker 3:You know, I've, I've read so many catechisms, so many different creeds, uh, every tradition seems to have a, you know, um, a set of doctrinal beliefs, uh, and everything like that, which I think are great. I love them, even when they contend with one another. I love it. But what I think that should constantly call us back to is to reading the scripture to see exactly how God and God's divine action worked with humanity in that time, because that will teach us how to contextualize our mission. And I never want to get that just by. You know, never want to truncate I don't think that's what we're doing here but truncate the gospel to a set of principles.
Speaker 1:I mean, in fact also, I would even argue that, yeah, I would argue, austin, that even a lot of times when we think about the role and the purpose, you know not to get too heavy and too deep when we think about the role and purposes of the creeds, they were in many cases answering a cultural moment.
Speaker 1:You know they were actually taking what the Bible was saying about a specific thing and addressing what was going on. Whether you were talking about Nicaea or you go all the way to, you know Edinburgh or you know you advance to all these different places where cultures and creeds were formulated, they were engaging the culture. And what happens a lot of times, like you said, is we can kind of take the creeds and remove them from the reality that they were in the midst of cultural engagement and forget that we still have to do that work. We still have to take our Bibles and engage our cultural moment with um in terms of the moments that we're in and the spaces that we're in with the Bibles that got, the same Bibles that God has given us. So, 100% to your point, agree to it.
Speaker 1:Let me let me wrap up. Actually, this, uh, pastor, it calls us out what, what it pulls us out, what is bringing you hope? Not hope, that's a poor way to phrase it no-transcript.
Speaker 4:Well, you know just that. I believe that there is a especially in the Gen Z and I guess we've got Gen Alpha now but especially in Gen Z, I think that they are more excited about multicultural ministry and seeing living out reconciliation than ever. You know, I know that we've always, as we preach and teach and pastor, we've always got to have the mindset okay, how am I passing this on to the next generation? And I'm really excited about, you know, what we see in our church, especially in Gen Z, and I guess even those of their 30s and 40s that have two or three children, that they see the value of being a part of multicultural church. I've had so many families come here, some black, some white, but they would get around to saying to me we came here because we want our children to grow up in a multicultural church and that meant a lot. I'm thinking that's going beyond. They're saying more than just saying, hey, I like the atmosphere, we like the music, we want to be a part of this. But they specifically said we're here because we want our children this is the gospel expression we want them to grow up in. And I say you know both black and white families, I could name them now I won't do that. That's how they came here and I'm thinking, okay, we're getting somewhere, because I've always felt like, you know, as long as there's sin in the world, we're going to be battling racism and other things, I'm sure. But I feel like that. Our greatest hope is to see our children take the mantle, without the distractions, without the restrictions, without the baggage, if I can say that sometime of the previous generations, and running with this thing, the gospel and multi-ethnic ministry, and seeing that, hey, at the heart of what a church should be would be that it embraces everybody in my city. I'm excited about that. I'm excited, I feel good about, you know, the next generation, uh and uh, I've often, you know, said, when I've done series and spoke on racial reconciliation here at the church and other places, is that, you know, one of the greatest places to deal with racism is at your kitchen table and um, start with your family, start with your children, start with answering questions and re, re, reshaping maybe what they're hearing at school or what they heard from grandma and grandpa.
Speaker 4:You know, uh, there may be some things that you need to re. You need to re, you need to re inform, you need to reteach those things, you know. And I remember to our church a couple of times and he's always been very special in my life and he preached a message on reconciliation one time and he referenced Gideon's father. I'm probably going to say this wrong, so I don't want to dishonor him but he said you know, I think it was Gideon's father that built an altar to his father's God, you know, rather than to the living God, and Gideon had to tear that altar down. And you know, we love, just like I mentioned, my grandparents. My grandparents were very, they very much embraced multiculturalism and but at the same time we've all got, you know, and it generally comes from our family lineage, that our kids are exposed to hearing things that we need to make sure we're correcting Maybe the kitchen table is the best way to do that to make sure that Gen Z, the next generation, that we're passing this on to that, that that that they can benefit from some of the victories we've already won.
Speaker 4:And because they're going to have their own challenges in the generation they're going to reach, and you know, politically and otherwise, and they, you know, they've got to know how to overcome those things and so if they could benefit from the victories, they could stand on our shoulders.
Speaker 4:That's what I want to see and I'm excited about that. I just more and more. I just we just come back from where our students just come back from a big conference in Birmingham. That would have been, yeah, probably, it's close to 50, 50 mixed, and there was there was 18000 students in that arena. So I say, wow, man, I'm so excited about what's going on in this generation. I think that Brian and Austin and Nettie, I think in some sense that they're building on maybe what we've laid the foundation for, you know, and to me that's so exciting. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm hopeful in that the next generation is going to get this right. It's not going to be one one preacher, one teacher, one book. We need all of those things, you know, and but it's, it's the next generation that that I think, that they're, they're, they're going to, they're coming to the to the game, equipped, better equipped than we were.
Speaker 1:Man. Amen, pastors man, thank you so much for your time today. This has been a very fruitful and convicting and encouraging podcast for us and obviously we gleaned a lot. I certainly gleaned a lot. I certainly gleaned a lot and I hope our listeners who are listening in I hope they gleaned an incredible amount as well. How can folks keep up with Pastor Mike Fields and Triumph Church? Where do they need to go?
Speaker 4:Thank you, brian. Well, you know our church's website, tcvicksburgcom, and of course that's our online presence and we stream our services. On Sunday morning we actually do two services. They're basically alike, so you can kind of take your choice, but you can stream at 9 or 1045. And then, of course, those services are archived on our website after the fact and so you can get on there, learn about our church and a little bit of our stories on there. But also, if you're not involved in a local church, you know and you want to check us out. Everything is online there. We're getting ready for our fall semester of small groups is kicking off and we're in week three of 21 days of prayer this week. We do that twice a year here at church, and so we're excited about what God is doing Fall. I think you guys would probably agree that in your churches that for some reason, fall seems like a harvest. I know it's a harvest season in the natural, but it seems like that in the spiritual too, and so we're gearing up for an exciting harvest season.
Speaker 2:Now, Mike, you gave that website. Slow it down this time and give it to us again. But also you got some old school guys like Austin need a telephone number or email or something, or a street address or street address or something.
Speaker 4:The website tcvicksburgcom is our church website and of course I welcome anyone that would want to email pastormike at tcvicksburgcom is my email address there.
Speaker 1:And so we're. We'd love to hear from you guys and and connect any way that you'd like to reach out to us. Fantastic, fantastic pastor. It's been again, an incredible privilege and pleasure to have you join us and for those of you all who are listening on, feel free to continue to listen to this podcast. Please feel free to share it Also. You can also go to any podcast app. Make sure you like and subscribe.
Speaker 1:It helps, helps get the word out about this podcast and the great guests that we get a chance to interview as we tell the story of reconciliation across the state of Mississippi and beyond. It's your, your listening and your sharing that helps us do that, so please don't hesitate to do so Again. It's been a great privilege to have Pastor Mike Fields on this episode of Living Reconciled. I am your host, brian Crawford, with my good co-host and friends Nettie Winters, austin Hoyle, signing off saying God bless, god bless, thank you, god bless you. Thanks for joining Living Reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured, please visit us online at missionmississippiorg or call us at 601-353-6477. Thanks again for listening.
