Living Reconciled
Living Reconciled, hosted by Mission Mississippi, is a podcast dedicated to exploring reconciliation and the Gospel that enables us to live it out. Mission Mississippi has been leading the way in racial reconciliation in Mississippi for 31 years. Our model is to bring people together to build relationships across racial lines so they can work together to better their communities. Our mission is to encourage and demonstrate grace in the Body of Christ across racial lines so that communities throughout Mississippi can see practical evidence of the gospel message.
Living Reconciled
EP. 105: Discernment In A Noisy World with Katie Ginn
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How can Christians pursue truth without sacrificing grace? In this episode, Katie Ginn, publisher and editor of Mississippi Christian Living, shares how faith, journalism, and mental health have shaped her approach to storytelling.
We explore misinformation, political division, and the responsibility to slow down before speaking. Katie reminds us that faithful communication requires discernment, empathy, and the courage to tell honest stories with grace.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
Welcome To Living Reconciled
SPEAKER_01This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on episode 105 of Living Reconciled. I'm your host, Brian Crawford, hanging out with some good friends.
SPEAKER_00Nettie Winners, how are you doing, sir? I'm great. God bless, man. I'm glad to be here and glad to be alive and well. And be one of your friends.
unknownAbsolutely.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely glad. Glad that I have one of my friends, Nettie Winners, with us, and also glad to have another friend who we will introduce in just a moment. But first, giving special shout-out and thanks to our sponsors, Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, New Horizons, Crossgates, Pear Orchard, Anderson United, Grace Temple, Mississippi State, Real Christian, Brown Missionary Baptists, Christian Life, and good friends like Doris Powell, Robert Warren, and Winners. Thank you so much for everything that you do. It's because of what you do that we're able to do. What we do and what we do is take the ministry of reconciliation throughout the state of Mississippi, um, and also host this podcast, Living Reconcile, where we are discussing all things life, faith, vocation, and reconciliation. And we have a special guest that we get a chance to discuss that with on today.
Meet Katie Ginn And Her Work
SPEAKER_01Um Miss Katie. Katie, how are you, ma'am?
SPEAKER_03I'm good. How are you doing?
SPEAKER_01Doing wonderful, doing wonderful, Katie. Now, um, Katie, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna let you uh correct me, but is it Katie Ginn?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Gen with Hardy.
SPEAKER_01There we go. Excellent. So thank you, ma'am. So Katie is uh a good friend and longtime friend of Mission Mississippi. Katie is also um the director, or I should say, uh, should I say director or president of Mississippi Christian or chief editor, I guess I should say, of Mississippi uh Christian Living Magazine. Uh Katie is a uh a passionate Christian, but she is also a very uh devoted journalist writing and crafting um incredible stories about uh what's happening in Christian life across the state of Mississippi. Uh Katie is also uh the husband the wife of Stephen Ginn. Um and they are members of Broadmoor Baptist Church in Madison, Mississippi. Katie, how are you doing today? And thanks for joining us on Living Reconcile.
SPEAKER_03Well, I'm great, and I'm uh I'm honored to be on the show. It's been a while since I've gotten to chat with either of y'all, so this will be fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to it. I'm I'm absolutely I'm absolutely looking forward to it. Looking forward to gleaning some of your wisdom because one of the things that we talked about uh pre-production is that you have you're like the gatekeeper of stories of Mississippi Christian life. And so I'm just I'm looking forward to just kind of gleaning from what you've gleaned as a result of kind of gathering all of these stories. But before before we get to that part, let me just start by just asking you to tell us a little bit about Katie
Faith Crisis And Calling To Journalism
SPEAKER_01Ginn. Uh, tell us a little bit about your story of faith um and how you ended up, how the Lord brought you to the place that you currently are uh serving as uh publisher and editor for Mississippi Christian Living.
SPEAKER_03Well, I will try to be brief. Um I grew up in Arkansas, uh, grew up in a Christian home, um, made a profession of faith at 10 or 11, plugged along as you do, had a total spiritual meltdown senior year of college, where just questioned everything obsessively because I was finally challenged in my faith and had never been challenged before. And so um at the end of about a year, was finally able to make what I call a quality decision to trust in Christ and give my life to him. Um and eventually uh saw a Christian counselor who helped me realize I have a little bit of OCD and helped me learn how to deal with that. So um, that's been very helpful as well. Um, journalism major, as you mentioned, worked at the North Side Sun newspaper for four years and then the Clarion Ledger for three years. And then total God thing and blessing of um Marilyn Tinnan, the founder of Mississippi Christian Living, was ready to retire and found out that I would be interested in taking over for her through a mutual friend. Again, just total God story. And then um, my dad ended up buying a business for me, which was a huge blessing. And that was almost eight years ago. So uh got married three years ago, and here I am.
SPEAKER_01Wow, wow, wow. That's um for me the you know, I'm always interested in stories where people are working in predominantly secular space, and then they make a transition into a very Christian-centric space in terms of what the lessons learned, uh, what do you feel like you take away from those spaces and introduce into the Christian space? And what
From Newsroom Pressure To Christian Media
SPEAKER_01do you feel like you leave behind? And so, Katie, if you could tell us a little bit uh from the, I guess from the journalist perspective, what do you feel like you left or or had to leave behind as you transitioned from Northside and the clearing or uh the clearing ledger um and moved into Mississippi Christian living? And then also what do you feel like you actually brought with you that enhanced the experience of Mississippi Christian living?
SPEAKER_03Um as far as leaving things behind, I mean, I think the main thing I feel like I left behind was just um, I don't know if it's because people are afraid to bash a Christian magazine, but I don't get nearly as much hate mail uh as editor of Mystibe Christian Living. But the Clarion Ledger, I mean, they catch it from both sides. And I have heard phone calls and participated in phone calls in that newsroom that were just so stressful. People so angry, so angry. And um, I can count on one hand the number of times I've received negative feedback about the magazine. Um and I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but that's just that's a very that's a big difference. Um and then I would say the other big difference is just toward the end of my time as a clarion ledger, I started to encounter a lot of like moral conflicts because you know, I um I didn't write for the news department, I was the features editor. And so features is like human interest stories and just, you know, the kind of content I do in the magazine now. And so that's a little more subjective. And so there would be features written, you know, from a pro-LGBT perspective, uh, features being pitched, that like, you know, certain reporter wanting to write a certain story from a a very like, you know, wanting to promote LGBT stuff. Um and uh, you know, other little like there were two or three instances like that, basically. And that was around the time, that spring of 2018, when um Maryland Tennant of Mississippi Christian Living was looking to retire. And so none of that was necessary for me to want to jump to the magazine because this was my dream job anyway. But um having that having those moral conflicts, I was just like, oh my word, thank you, Jesus, because I wouldn't have known what to do. Do I stay? Do I go? Do I make a fuss? Do I not? How do you even navigate that as a believer? And it just the Lord graciously, ridiculously graciously, just removed me. Um so yeah. Um, and then your second question was what have I brought with me from that background?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um I mean, again, I haven't written hard news in probably over a decade because you know, at the North Side Sun, I I wrote community news and and there was some investigative stuff in there that was cool and fun. But uh for the most part, I've really written just the fun stuff. And so, but when it does come up, is like, for instance, I'll just let y'all know, I don't know when this is airing, but um our August cover story for the magazine is three generations of Mississippi College alumni from the same family. Because of course, um, this is the 200th anniversary of MC. And I said Mississippi College, that's wrong. It's now Mississippi Christian University.
SPEAKER_01Um I have to I have to get used to that. I'm saying it a whole lot right now, Katie, because that's where our annual celebration is going to be. And so I'm getting used to saying Mississippi Christian University.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and and I'm so glad they kept the acronym because I can just say MC. But in that cover story, you know, it's it's a white family, three generations of this family. And in fact, there's a fourth generation that passed away that also attended. So they are four generations deep at this university. It's an incredible story. They're great people. And uh, you know, toward the end of the story, I'm typing through my notes and I'm getting to like, um, you know, so how has the university changed from like the the top generation to the the guy that just graduated now? Well, the technology's changed, but also integration, you know, that was a thing. And I I texted my advisory board and I was like, I kind of feel compelled to mention this, but then also none of these people happened to be at the university when the integration happened. Um, you know, and so it didn't really directly affect them. And so ultimately I decided not to include it. But that was, you know, I that's not my favorite part of the job, is when I have these moral, these moral conflicts. They didn't just like go away because I'm at a Christian magazine now. In fact, they become a lot more important because I'm at a Christian magazine now. And so there's a standard for me. And uh, you know, I don't always get it right. And uh I don't know if I'm getting it right this time either, but the decision was made. And so, you know, obviously if it had been an African-American family, it would have been a very different story. Um, but yeah, just things like that that I have to think about, you know. And so as a journalist, and as a journalist whose most recent gig before this was the Colarian Ledger, I'm like, oh, but you know, if we write this story and we don't even talk about integration, are we just, you know, are we just perpetuating whiteness or I don't know. I don't know. Like I'm I have that inner dialogue and uh I don't have the answer for that. That's just that's something I deal with. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00How do you how do you no go ahead, Daddy? Go ahead. I was gonna say, you know, that's an interesting d dilemma, but now the the the article's about the people themselves and not about the university.
SPEAKER_03Right, it is it's about the definitely Right.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, I would I would think that at some point you might want to do a 200-year anniversary of the university itself. That would include the milestones and the changes and other things. In my opinion, I just thought I had while you were talking.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, because it is, it's about the family and their experiences at the university and you know, that kind of thing. And so literally their experience like the grandpa graduated in 63, integration happened in 69, and his kids weren't there until like the 80s and 90s. So like there's this gap when they're just they weren't there, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, um I don't know. I mean, the journalism side, I feel like that's when the journalism side, you know, comes back and asks those questions, like, okay, I know this is a human interest story, but like, are we being fair? Are we being equitable? Are we, you know, are we thinking about things objectively?
SPEAKER_01And I mean Are we exploring all the angles?
SPEAKER_03Right. And I'm not always like I'm not perfect at it.
SPEAKER_01So Yeah. Here's a question for you, because when I think about right um secular journalism
Editing With Accountability And Blind Spots
SPEAKER_01and you know, um publishing stories and articles for a for a major newspaper, uh a statewide newspaper like a like the Clearing Ledger, you know, in my mind I'm thinking, okay, story is presented, you know, by a journalist, by a, by a um, by an article writer, and there's convenings that happen where people are reviewing and offering pros, cons and making determinations based on some of these things that you've talked about, based on identifying, you know, does it embody some of the values that we want to embody as a newspaper overall? Is it is it is it is it rigorous, you know, is it rigorous journalism? Is it is it you know, all these types of things? You know, do you see that also in a in a space like with uh with a Christian living magazine, primarily human interests? Um is there is there is that that type of work being done in that space as well?
SPEAKER_03Um, I mean, the main way that I try to do that, because I mean the buck stops with me. So unfortunately, I don't have an editor over me to kind of look over my shoulder, but I do, you know, anytime I'm considering who I'm gonna put on the cover, I send those names to my advisory board. I send the those names to my staff. And if I know that Marilyn, my predecessor, knows the person, I'll send the names to her. And um just just to get a feel for it, because I'm not a native Mississippian, I've been here since 07. But you know, there's still a lot that I'm not familiar with here. There's still people that I just don't know. And um, so I try to do that. And then, like I said, the thing about MC and integration, like if there's ever a question that pops up for me, I immediately am asking people I trust to weigh in. But the problem is the questions don't always occur to me. So that's a that's probably a blind spot and a weakness. Um, you know, and I hope that my advisory board knows that if they see something in the magazine that kind of makes them question, that they can bring it to me and say, hey, what did what's up with this? And then, you know, I can correct it going forward. But um, yeah, a lot of it is just like relying on the Lord for discernment and trying to listen to people when they tell you you're wrong.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And my mind, I I feel like you mentioned it earlier, where there's the there was the the the very vast difference between the amount of you know constructive criticism that you would get from the public. Yeah, yeah, when you work for the Clarion Ledger and the North Side Sun versus uh what you get from uh from Mississippi Christian living and people sending you emails there. Well it's it would seem that there's some blessings in disguise in terms of being uh fortified in in that kind of space and and and kind of having having your your uh your your your your work uh picked apart so regularly and so routinely. Um maybe I'm totally missing it. Maybe there is no blessing in disguise. Maybe that was misery. But could you could you walk could you walk us through whether or not there was some lessons learned? There were some things that that the Lord was using to shape you and to build some character in you that at the time doesn't feel good,
Backlash, OCD, And Owning Your Words
SPEAKER_01but on the on the on the tail end when you passed it, you say, Yeah, I can see where the Lord helped help me there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so and I didn't catch nearly as much heat as the people on the news side. Because again, I'm mostly writing stuff about the arts and culture and whatever. Um, but I think some of it was exposure therapy for my OCD looking back. Cause I'd be like, well, what if they're right? What if I what if I miss this? And then, oh no, here's this other person on the other side saying this, what if I'm right? You know, and just you know, being forced to reckon with that, I think has been sanctifying for me in my mental health. But um I remember one guy, I wrote a column saying that we should change the flag. Um, because I did get to write just a column, just a personal column every week, which is such a luxury. Um and I wrote a column.
SPEAKER_01So that was an easy one, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, but you know, I was pretty spicy about it. Um, I think I, you know, just mentioned, I had some line about, you know, having a healthy hatred for the Confederate flag or something like that. And um this gentleman called in, and I wasn't the only one he talked to. He also talked to the news editor at the time who got very frustrated with him. But he he's um he was a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans and was convinced that he had an ancestor that fought in the Civil War, but in some regiment from Delaware or some northern state that didn't make sense. And he also is Jewish, and so he was very proud of the fact that the SCV let him in as a Jew because oh, everybody thinks they're anti-Semitic and racist and but they let me in and I'm Jewish. Um and so he wanted to just have this whole conversation with me about I just think you need to look and see why your ancestors did what they did. That's what's that's the line that sticks in my mind. You need to go back and see, understand why your ancestors did what they did, and then you would understand. And, you know, and he invited me to Shabbat at the synagogue and to sit next to him, and I was like, absolutely not. Um, you know, I think there was a mix of flirtation in there, and then he got on the phone with a news editor who is a military veteran, and they had a whole conversation, and so it was just bizarre. Um but you know, again, no matter how bizarre it is, then then you again you return back to what you actually wrote, and you're like, okay, objectively, let me look at this. Was there a kinder way I could have said it? I don't know. Maybe, you know, so even the weirdest, craziest people, if they call me on something, I still, and maybe this is just me, I'm still like, well, let me look at it. Let me let me let me just look at it, you know. Um I still believe that changing the flag was the right thing to do. And and our investigative editor, even she got roped into it. She looked up like the supposed regiment he was talking about, his answer, and she's like, that's not real. That doesn't exist. He's not, he's literally not a son of Confederate veterans, you know.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_03So anyway. Um, but again, I this may be the people pleaser in me, or just not wanting anyone, anyone to think less of me. But if you call me on something, I'm gonna look at it. Like I'm I have to. It's like I I'm compelled to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But that's I don't know. I don't know if I even answered your question with that crazy story.
SPEAKER_00No, I mean, actually, actually, you you know, it's it's it's it's an interesting take, Katie, when you talked about what you left and what you brought. Uh uh, as you wrestle with yourself, you didn't leave much behind. You brought it with you. Uh, and and you brought you you, you what you brought with you is helpful in terms of your discernment as it relates to how do I helm this? How do I speak to it? And how do I do it in a way that that is just firm and and true and correct, but also uh I don't want to be insensitive to other folks' opinions or feelings or whatever else, and I want to get it right as it relates to that, but at the same time, I'm gonna give the facts and stand firm. I think that's a a great uh attribute and uh character uh greatness in your writing that I think that stands out. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Well, thank you. Again, I don't I don't do it perfectly by any means. I think after Charlie Kirk was killed, I wrote two editors' letters. One went in print and one was about Charlie Kirk and it went online. And I just I didn't have the cojones to put it in print. Sorry if I said cojones on a podcast, but um just no problem. It was too it, I I was like, I it's too much. I just can't, I can't do it. Um but yeah, it's it's on the it's on the website. You can if you search his name, I'm sure it'll pop up.
SPEAKER_01Here's something that you just mentioned that really resonated with me, and I'm I'm curious about it because the story that You told about the Sons of the Confederate, and hey, there's a Confederate regiment in Delaware and uh or up north, and then your investigative journalist person digs into it. It's like, wait a second, this is not a thing. Um, that that immediately caused my mind to make
Misinformation, Empathy, And Lost Nuance
SPEAKER_01a beeline to the age of disinformation that we're in currently, right? In terms of just how much information Christians can get swept up in that is not true, that's not real, that was completely and totally made up. And the lie that was told in order to create this travels around the world seven times before the truth ever gets started, you know, in terms of or the correction ever gets started. Um, you know, as a as a as a Christian who's publishing, um who had who has, you know, who has the the the premier magazine for Mississippi Christians, right? Um what lessons can you tell us, or what lessons can you share with the Christian community as to how we might engage this age of information overload and saturation and disinformation overload and saturation, misinformation overload and saturation? What counsel would you give us as to how to best navigate through this age from a journalist perspective?
SPEAKER_03Um well, I mean, I was thinking about the Nolan Wells case before we started recording. Uh and I haven't intentionally tried to keep up with all of it, so I don't know what the latest updates are or anything like that. But the the level of vitriol and hatred and gross speculation on I'll say both sides, like it is you know, at the heart of this, a family is grieving, they've lost their son, they're in shock, they're in grief. They want to know what happened to their son. That's that's what's going on. We know that much. And like I think in terms of misinformation and and what's true and what's not, I mean you gotta do your homework and do your due diligence like anyone else. But I think the biggest lesson for us is uh just thinking of people like human beings. I mean, because if it were I don't have kids, but if it were my kid and some political celebrity wanted to rally to my cause, heck yeah. Yeah, come on, help me find out what happened to my kid. And I don't care if that political celebrity is somebody I align with or not. I don't care if they believe in UFOs and Bigfoot, I want them because I want to know what happened to my son. And so the people calling calling the family names and say that I have no tolerance for. Um but in terms of misinformation, I I mean, I'm as lost as anybody else. I try not to believe everything I hear on Fox News when I go to my parents' house, and I try not to believe everything I hear on MSNBC when I see it on the treadmill at the gym. Like, and I'm just like, there's many sides to every story, and then there's the truth. Like, I I really don't know what to tell people. Like, I think you just have to vet things, and um I don't know. I I would refer them to the investigative journalists that I know, Teresse Apel, Jerry Mitchell. I would ask them, where do you get your news? Because honestly, I'm so not a news person. Like I I'm as lost as anybody else. I just uh, but I I do know with that case, like people need to shut up, honestly. Like, yeah, or at least the the people who are calling names um to that family need to stop.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, I I I remember, you know, year years ago, Denzel Washington uh in responding to a fake news story about him, uh, was basically saying that there's a there's a a tendency and a temptation to just get it out there, to be the first to catch the story, be the first to get the story right. And I and I see that not just happening in the in the world of journalism, but I see that happening just in in the Christian community in general and in our social media engagement, the way we interact with social media, where there's this tendency to say, hey, I need to have an opinion. So a story happens, and we're all very still, we're all still trying to pull the pieces together around the story, but we feel this demand, we feel this itch, right, to say something about the story, right? Um, and for whatever reason, we we feel like there's some credibility that we earn in our community if we put it out there, or for whatever reason, that we feel the need to openly speculate. And these things I you know, these things used to happen in the company of your own house, you know, with with friends and family sitting around a coffee table and dinner table. Now these things happen in these public spaces where you are releasing this speculation to 3,000 other uh friends, you know, and and getting likes or dislikes because of your speculation. And so it's just a dangerous place to be in right now because of this appetite to actually get this out here, to be the first person to get it right. And you don't wait for you know healthy information, you don't wait for insights that have been vetted. You just feel like you gotta give an opinion. And and I and I just feel like that's a dangerous place to to live in. And I feel like Christians are getting swept up into that, if that if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it does. And like we've lost, I feel like the past 20, 30, I don't know, however long cable news has been around and then just amplified by social media, like we don't know what nuance means anymore. Like ever. Just we've totally lost that. We have no concept of nuance. And so again, some of this is my OCD talking, but like I'm anytime I try to take on a controversial thing, I'm like, ooh, but am I, am I, am I catching all the angles? Am I am I nuanced in this? And that's probably why I didn't put the Charlie Kirk thing in print, because I'm like, I don't know, I don't know, you know. And there is a I do feel compelled as the Christian magazine in Mississippi to come out and speak about the big things. You know, I think one blessing, and again, just God's grace, is that this is a monthly magazine. And so I have a little more time usually to to develop thoughts and nuance if I do choose to speak to something, but also because it's monthly, people don't have as much of an expectation that oh, Katie's gonna say something. We gotta see what Katie's gonna say. You know, I don't think I'm any kind of authority or anything like that. So, you know, I it's hard to know when to say something and when not to, but um yeah, that's just an ongoing journey again of discernment. And I think Nettie, I reached out to you about the Charlie Kirk piece, and I don't know which I don't know which draft you even read. It went through three or four iterations, but um just trying to be discerning, trying to talk to people I trust and see is this something I should even speak to. And if so, does it seem I don't know, does it seem like a a healthy perspective?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, we're uh we're we're in a very challenging age, Katie, because here here's the here's the reality behind what you just said. All of the meticulous thought that you embarked on um to prepare a sensible response by the time we wrestle through it and pray through it, and then prepare something that is sensible, we've probably gotten a hundred times as many responses into the ether that were not sensible, that were not thought through, that were not prayed through. They were just kind of vomited out, right? And so, and so and most Chris, most Christians around us are latching on to those hundreds of responses. And so, how do we train the Christian mind uh to go through that process of receiving information the same way we're trying to go through the process of producing it, if that makes sense?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Let me actually let me turn turn uh turn the interview to uh another question in terms of like you're
Reconciliation And The Political Divide
SPEAKER_01curating all these stories and you're gathering all these stories. Um and when you're as you're curating and gathering all of these stories, what is what have you seen in terms of the landscape of reconciliation? Um you know, what what would be your not to not to reduce it to something uh too too uh too shallow, but but it's all I got right now. What would be your letter grade as you think from your perspective, as you think about reconciliation across across Mississippi as you are gay as you are gathering all these stories over the last several years? How are we doing as a state? Where do you see Eric, where do you see uh signs of light and where do you see areas where we can grow?
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, I see signs of light just anytime I have people in the room together that don't look like each other and everybody gets along and treats each other well, like I think, you know, for the most part, it seems like, you know, grown folks who are mature in their walk in Christ, and hopefully those are the ones that I'm putting on my cover. Um, it seems like we, you know, we know how to get along. We're not, you know, we're not operating out of these false assumptions about each other as as enemies or as other. Um, but at the same time, as a human interest magazine, I'm not usually delving into the hard questions. I'm not asking them who'd you vote for and why. Right. Because then that's an argument, you know. And um I guess I've never thought about giving the state a letter grade. Y'all would be way more positioned to do that than I would be. Um, I think more about myself and just like my April, May, and June covers were white couple, white couple, white couple, and that makes me a little squeamish. And I'm like, ugh, you know. So I'm, you know, I need to be looking more at myself and my publication and my running lists of people that could be part of each month's theme or cover story or topic. And like, if it's all white, I need to be reaching further. I need to be asking for more names. I need to be looking deeper than I am. And so I'm, you know, I'm not perfect at this yet either. Um so, but yeah, I mean, I don't think it's about us not being able to get along. I think honestly, I feel like the political divide is far worse than just a strictly racial, what you look like divide. Um, I think the political divide is far worse.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Political divide in some ways is kind of just um um swallowing up all of our divides in many ways. It's just like kind of capturing, you know, talking about race somehow or another, the political, the politics comes in and swallows up that conversation and culture, the politics comes in and swallows up that conversation. So now you end up having, you know, now you end up having cultural conversations, and then there's a left-right opinion about a cultural conversation. I was talking to Nettie earlier this morning. It's like, how did left and right, how did we but develop a left and right opinion around like the movie The Odyssey? But we found a way to do it, you know. So now there's like a left-right opinion around around movies, you know, and so the politics has just kind of swallowed up all of these conversations. It's it's really fascinating, really incredible how that's happening. And and in some ways, I think, you know, not not to get too too philosophical or or too conspiratorial even, but I think in some ways there's there's there's groups of people that kind of want want it that way. You know, when when I was uh when I was preaching through Luke 20 uh recently, and the the passage, you came across a passage about give give the Caesar what is Caesar, render unto gods what is gods, because they have the they have the denary coin and they have the Caesars, they sit they have Caesar's image on it, say, okay, we'll give the Caesars what is Caesars and God so what uh give the gods what is gods. And one of the things that I that I drew out of that is that Caesar, in some shape, form, or fashion, whichever, whatever Caesar looks like in your sphere, for us it's you know our political system, but but Caesar manifests itself in different ways and just in different locations. One of the things we talked about is that when it comes to Caesar, Caesar's always gonna be reaching for your worship. He's gonna uh Caesar's always gonna be reaching to make um reaching so that you would make Caesar ultimate rather than God being ultimate. And so now we see that in our political discourse where it's just like you have to be on the left or the right on all issues. There is no nuance, and back to your point, on this side. We're gonna give you an opinion to hold, right? And whether that is talking about the Super Bowl, whether that's talking about Cracker Barrel logos, or whether that's talking about the Odyssey, or whether that's talking about anything else, we're gonna give you an opinion to hold, and you have to be on our side with that opinion. And so, in many ways, I feel like that's the kind of spiritual warfare where Caesar is reaching for your worship, and and will Christians will Christians concede that, you know?
SPEAKER_03I mean, yeah, I'd yeah, I agree with everything you just said, and it's silly, like it's so silly. I think we need to read more books. Like, yes, like turn the TV off, read a book, read a book about someone that's a half step different from you, even if they're not another race. Like, read read a book about someone whose story is not like yours, and not because you have white guilt, just read it because it's a cool story, okay? Like, yes, and and learn something. Yeah, the the political stuff is just so ridiculous because you can hear the same story on two different networks, and they're both wrong because they're both missing all the nuance. And so, again, that's why I say I don't know where to point people. I don't know who's even objective anymore. Like, I can count on one hand the number of people I personally know who I know are trying to be objective as journalists. And guess what? Neither one of them's national. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Wow. Wow. Katie, um, we could have a conversation to the cows come home around this. Nettie knows I am nerding out right now talking to you about this kind of stuff. This is the stuff that I love to dive into and just try to understand how how our Christians are thinking and how are we processing information that we're receiving and what are we doing with it? Um so we can nerd out on this all day. But I know I know your time is precious. And so um here's here's here's one way that I would like to close out our our time. And then I'll I'll have uh Nettie um call close out in his way as well. But for me, what
Stories That Restore Hope And Next Steps
SPEAKER_01what do you see? Uh what stories are are are being told these days that really, really, really uh light a fire of hope, inspiration in you, um, really make you feel like, man, you know, what we're doing is worth is worth the work, it's worth the grind. What stories are you seeing? What stories are you hearing? What stories are you telling that that ignites that for you?
SPEAKER_03Well, um, I mentioned my three little white couples three three months in a row, and they all have incredible stories. Um, you know, I wish maybe I'd spread them out a little bit, but um, but you know, just talking about reconciliation, even uh from a different perspective, marital reconciliation. My April cover story was a couple that um there's infidelity, and it was actually infidelity on the part of the wife. And it was 15 years into their marriage, and now they've been married 15 years since then, and they have a marriage ministry and a podcast, and they're thriving, you know. And so stories like that give me a lot of hope, not just because, like, okay, their marriage is better now, but because they're talking about it. People who are have struggled with their mental health and are talking about it in my magazine, that gives me hope. Like I met my husband because I started visiting Broadmoor, because I interviewed Josh Braddy and his wife after he became pastor, and he just casually mentioned in the interview mental health has been something that's been debilitating for me at times. But through counseling and medication and prayer, I've, you know, gotten better. And I'm just like, uh-huh. I'm like tearing up as I'm writing this down. And I'm like this man, like, if y'all don't know Broadmoor, Broadmoor is huge, and it's the most prosperous city in the state, potentially. But he's justn't gonna tell us he has struggled with his mental health. And like, so that gives me hope. People being willing to be open about where they're struggling and where they have struggled and not feeling like they gotta cover it all up and make it pretty. Like, I know the magazine's pretty, but I I do love it. It's one of my favorite things when people are willing to share, you know, something that was debilitating and actually use the word and not just say, oh, that was really that was a struggle, that was a challenge, you know. But like really tell us, no, this was hard and God is seeing me through and has seen me through. Um, so that gives me hope. I mean, I I mentioned having running lists for each month's theme. And I go back to my running list and say, okay, who can I try to pick on this year? And uh I'm I'm excited to hopefully one day have an interracial couple on the cover of the marriage issue. You know, you heard it here first. See that. Like that just that makes me really, really happy. That just always makes me happy. Um, because it's like 400 years of slavery and subjugation and oppression, and now, you know, thinking each other is the enemy. Nah, we're gonna get married.
SPEAKER_02Like, I just love it.
SPEAKER_03I love that so much. So I hope to do that. Um and uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I mean I got some strong I got some strong suggestion for you when you get ready for it.
SPEAKER_03You got a what now?
SPEAKER_00Great recommendation, strong suggestion for you for me.
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah. Yeah, text me their names for sure.
SPEAKER_01Nettie party shots, man.
SPEAKER_03Is he frozen?
SPEAKER_01Uh oh.
SPEAKER_03He's frozen on my screen.
SPEAKER_01He is frozen, isn't he? I hope he's not giving us something very deeply wise and because we don't hear a single word. I hope so. Yeah. And so and so I'm that's why I'm that's why I'm gonna let it linger that way if he if he is saying something, it's gonna capture it on the top.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Hopefully he'll come back in a second.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh. That's funny. How long do we think Nettie will talk?
SPEAKER_01He's gone. He's gone. Okay. All right. So we'll we'll we'll edit up, we'll clean all that stuff up. But um, but I I get I guess you know, one of the one one of the takeaways that that I that I have from this is uh from this conversation with you, Katie is a really, really, really great podcast that somebody can um somebody can develop and create called uh Three Little White Couples. And um, I'm sure that'll you know that will get a lot of traffic.
SPEAKER_03It would probably be great. It would probably be great. But well, you know, it might be a little better if there was a black couple in there.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for uh for uh for spending some time with us and really giving us a lot of wisdom to glean from in this conversation. We love Mississippi Christian Living, um, and we and we are praying nothing but God's best that he continue to give you wind in the sails to just um tell good stories about what the Lord is doing across our state and um that he continue to give you all the great resources that you need in order to do that. So thank you so much, Katie. How can people keep up with Katie Gin, Mississippi Christian Living?
SPEAKER_03Uh you can go to our website, mschristianliving.com. You can scroll to the bottom and subscribe for $29 a year. You can follow us on Facebook or Instagram. Um and yeah.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic, fantastic. And if you want to keep up with what's going on in the life of Mission Mississippi and Living Reconciled, you can do so by visiting missionmississippi.org. Um, you can um subscribe to this podcast by going to any podcast app and searching for Living Reconciled, uh, Mission Mississippi, and you will find us. And if you would like to contribute to this work, we would love for you to do it and join that illustrious list of uh sponsors and investors that we mentioned at the at the beginning of the show. You can do so by going to missionmississippi.org. Click on the donate button at the top right of the screen, and that will put you in uh put you in great company because there's a lot of people um that's responsible for making podcasts like this possible. And we're incredibly grateful for them, incredibly grateful for you. On behalf of my friend Nettie Winners and our special guest and friend Katie Ginn, this is Brian Crawford signing off saying, God bless. Thanks for joining Living Reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured, please visit us online at missionmississippi.org or call us at 601-353-6477. Thanks again for listening.
