S6 EP17: Zulma's Story - The Swearing Survivor!

WARNING: VERY EXPLICIT LANGUAGE!! (Which we thoroughly enjoyed!)

This week, The Swearing Therapist, Zulma Williams, joins us for a brilliant episode! Founder of Dragonfly Therapy Services, Psychotherapist, and Inspirational Public Speaker, A leading expert in trauma, anxiety, and depression, her work helps clients overcome life challenges to reach their full potential.

Zulma was born and raised in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and immigrated to the United States at age 31. At age 42, she started her Bachelor of Social Work program. A few weeks after graduating at 46, she was diagnosed with breast cancer.

She had a lumpectomy, moved back to Argentina for three years, and in 2015 moved back to the United States. She started her Master of Social Work program at age 50 and became fully licensed in 2018. In 2025, she celebrated her 60th birthday in Hawaii. She has always loved the ocean, and those four days truly inspired her to find a way to live on the beach. Since she could not afford to live in Hawaii or California, she moved to Panama in December of 2025. Now, she can hear the waves and see the ocean from her bedroom window.

She is witty, passionate, likes to keep it real, and swears a lot. She survived cancer, abusive relationships, depression, and suicidal ideation, but never considered herself a victim. Her mission is to inspire people to discover and honor the warrior inside themselves.

Enjoy, and you have been warned... :)

Socials

https://www.dragonflytherapyservices.net

https://www.instagram.com/theswearingtherapist/

https://feed.pod.co/get-real-with-zulma

https://www.facebook.com/DragonflyTSLV/

https://www.youtube.com/@theswearingtherapist

https://www.linkedin.com/in/zulma-williams-ab7609214/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Welcome to another episode of Well, That Fucked Me Up. I am your host, Luke Colson. And today we're joined by Zilma Williams. Hi, Zilma.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Hi, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

I'm so good. You've got such a smiley face. We've already been having a laugh before we we've even begun. Um, where are you calling us from?

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Uh so uh right now I'm in Panama.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Oh, nice. How's Panama?

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Yes, it's beautiful, it's wonderful, and I tell you all about it during the interview.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Perfect. Okay, great. Well, thank you for coming on. Uh, I can't wait to get started. Every week we have a guest who comes on and we talk about surviving life-changing events and experiences. And I say the same thing every week, and people get bored with my preamble, but that can be anything. Like we've all been through stuff, and we've all been through stuff that we didn't realize was having a profound effect on us. And some negative things that happen in our life can often make us a stronger person down the line. But during those instances and experiences, it's freaking hard, right? So figuring out and navigating our way through life. So, with that, Zorma, where would you like to begin?

SPEAKER_02 2:44

I would like to begin at the very beginning and walk through it.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Uh I always sorry to interrupt you before you even started, but once I had a guest who said, I'd because a lot of people say I'd like to start at the beginning, and then some people say I'd like to start at the end, and then we can go back to the beginning. And I'm like, okay, and then this one woman said, I'd like to start 500 years before my birth when I was stardust, and I thought, Okie dokie, we're in for a bit of a ride on this one, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Anyway, I I hope we have time. Yeah, no, no, I was uh I'm gonna start at the beginning of when I was born, um, which was a long time ago, anyway. But anyhow, I was um Sulma Williams, a swearing therapist, and I was born and raised in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I moved to the United States at 31. At 42, I started, I was working in accounting in a big corporation, and I started thinking about my future. I was like, I'm not sure I want to do this for another 25 years, and I always had a passion for helping people, so I was like, um, maybe it's time for you to follow your dream of becoming a therapist. So, in order to do that, I had to go to school. So I started my Bachelor of Social Work at 42. I graduated at 46, I was on track to do my master's. Six weeks after graduation, I got diagnosed with breast cancer because life, if what happens, you have other plans.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Here comes life. I'm gonna punch you in the face.

unknown 4:24

Why?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

So uh obviously, I I stopped my higher education uh to take care of my health. I moved back to Argentina actually to be close to my family. I took care of my health, and then at the time of my diagnosis, I was living in Las Vegas, and uh I was like, you know what? I want to celebrate my 50th birthday in Las Vegas, and so I asked God for a sign, and out of nowhere, I got an email to my personal email from the university saying, Hey, we have the advanced master program back. Do you want to enroll?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Wow, yes, I did. That's a gift, that's a gift, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Wow, it is so I moved back to Las Vegas, I celebrated my 50th birthday, I started my master's, I graduated at 51. Fast forward to 2025. I turned 60, I went from Las Vegas to Hawaii to celebrate my birthday because I love the ocean. And I was like, so I love the ocean, but I live in the desert, make sense of that, right? Like, so I was like, what the fuck is wrong with this picture? I need to figure it out how to live uh by the ocean, and I pray about it. The answer was Panama.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

So December of 2025, I brought my I put my six decades of life in six pieces of luggage, and I can only bring five. But so there's one still at my friend's house, and I moved to Panama. And now I live like I'm looking at the ocean from my window. I I uh go to sleep here in the the waves, and it's like you know, life is right now. What the fuck are we waiting for? Oh, when blah blah blah, right? Like so in going back to the big event, which was my cancer diagnosis. I my motto is I had cancer, cancer didn't have me. Yes, and that can be applied to any challenge anybody's facing. It's not what happens to us, it's what we do, what we happens to us.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

It's it's hard to I think like this is gonna sound awful, but I think because I've had quite a few guests on with some pretty horrific diagnosis, right? And everyone that comes on the show in some way or another is a survivor. And I had a chap who came on three weeks ago, and he was still living with a terminal brain tumor, and and he was told he was dying, he had three months, and it's been it's been I don't know, I'm laughing, it's been four years. And he's just like he's like, I'm good. Like, I'm like, so when you go to the scan, he's like, I'm not doing it, I'm not doing scans anymore. Like, I don't if I they tell me I've got three months and it's been four years and I feel okay, I don't care. And I also had a friend who who did the same, she had breast cancer. They told her it was master sized and she was gonna die, and she said, Thanks very much, I'm done with you guys. And it's been 12 years, she's completely fine, and she doesn't even know if she still has cancer. She says, I I don't I feel I feel fine, I don't need to go into the medical system. That's like a whole different story, but how did it affect you when you firstly realized something was wrong and then you got the diagnosis? And then how do you flip that to have this this way of dealing with it, which is like I I can overcome this? Because that's a that's a lot. That's like hearing you have cancer is probably one of the worst things you can ever hear in your life, you know?

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Yes, so my first reaction. So, well, first I found a lump on my breast, and um, so I went to get a mammogram, and then I got um a referral to a surgeon, but I was in fucking la la la. Like I nobody said the word cancer, so I was like, Oh, go to the surgeon. I'm like, okay, I go to the surgeon, like you know what I mean? Like, denial is a powerful tool. Yeah, so then the surgeon did an ultrasound, and then he said, This is what he said he said, I don't like what I see, I'm gonna do a biopsy. And I was like, Oh, okay, I'm stealing fucking la la lam, right? So he did the biopsy, and uh, he was such an asshole. When I went to pick up the results, he didn't even make eye contact with me. Oh no, he had a God complex, and like so I was sitting on the table and he was to the side, and he was looking at the results, and he was like, Yeah, I was right, you you have cancer.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

So it could kind of like God, it it was feeding his ego.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

That's horrible. But I had done my my homework, and I I was looking at you know, if it's cancer, what to ask, if it's not cancer, what to ask. And and on the forums it said bring a friend, because if it is cancer, you might uh not remember anything after hearing that. So, and and I did. So I my friend asked the questions, blah blah blah. So my excuse me, shit. Um, my first reaction was why me, right? And then I started thinking, I don't have children of my own, but my mom at the time was alive, so I started thinking, I have my mom and I have a sister and I have nieces and I have girlfriends. So if it wasn't me, would I have preferred that it was one of them who got the diagnosis? And the answer is no. So the I changed the question from why me to why not me?

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Yeah, wow, that's and that took me out of the victim mentality, why me?

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Why not you, bitch? Like right, yeah, and if you have children, if you can like which one your child to have the diagnosis instead of you, yeah, like what makes you so fucking special, right? Like, so so I moved from why me to why not me, and now I have a decision to make. I can sit in the corner and cry until I die, or I stand up and fight. Well, spoiler alert, here I am 14 years later.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Anna, I was gonna say, what happened? Oh, you're here. You are you're a walking spoiler alert right now. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

But but the um you know the treatment was what one fucking treatment at a time. Like, how did I achieve 14 years? Was one fucking day at a time, one treatment at a time, one doctor visit at a time. There were days that were great, and there were days that were awful, yeah. Of course, and I just keep pushing through one fucking day at a time. So for anyone listening, whatever the fuck you're going through is about not giving up, it's not about how fast you're moving, it's about you you fall down seven times, you get up eight. Yeah, I think that life is not about not falling, it's about not remaining on the ground.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Yeah, yeah, that makes perfect sense. So you battled through it and eventually you got an all-clear.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Uh right. So um, and and well, that was another fucking thing because uh because I decided to move back to Argentina, I got surgery and radiation in the United States, but then I went to uh a hospital in Argentina that specializes in cancer, and they wanted to do chemo. So I said, What is the percentage? And they were like 50-50. I said, No, you have to do better than that. Yeah, I'm not gonna poison my entire body as a prevention for something that you don't even know if I have. Yeah, so I had to jump through all these hoops. Like I in going there from the United States, I was like, I fucking sign you whatever the fuck you want me to sign that I'm not gonna sue you if the cancer comes back, yeah. Right? Because like I don't think they fucking give a shit about you, I think that they are covering their assets, yeah, right. Like, so yeah, so that that made the magic uh because I I met with the attorneys, I signed the fucking thing. Yeah, all of a sudden they came with an alternative treatment.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Oh really, wow, that's the shit that you told me.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

This is the only thing to do, right? And I was horrifying risking being kicked out, not being uh you know, uh accepted as a as a patient for the hospital because I'm refusing the protocol, yeah, yeah, of course, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

But their protocol is just so like ticking a list. It's like you've got this, this is what we do, you've got this, this is what we do, right? And if you live, great, and if you die, great. You know, we've done the thing that's on the list for what we do when you have this diagnosis, such uh cookie cutter, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Like so, and my oncologist, um she's a woman, and she said, If I had it, I will I will do the chemo. And I said, with all due respect, you don't have it. This is my body, yeah. So when you get the diagnosis, and I hope you don't, yeah, you decide what is best for you. Yeah, wow, and by no means this is medical advice for our listeners. I'm just sharing my experience, of course, but inform yourself, like it was an inform decision. It wasn't like go the fucking doctor said the doctor might know about cancer, but this is my body, yeah. And if I don't protect it, who the fuck will?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people reject radio and chemo because they're like, I don't, I don't know. And also you can go online and you can talk, you can see a whole bunch of things to do. Um, some of them are very expensive, and also some of those don't work. I had a friend back in maybe 20 years ago who had lung cancer, and he was going to get um part of his lung taken out, and then he had to have another part of his lung taken out, and then everyone put a GoFundMe together and raised like 50 grand so he could go to Dallas to have like a natural homeopathic healing thing with wheatgrass, and he he went there and he died two days later. So, you know, who knows if he'd have done the radio and the chemo, you know, we all thought this was the way forward because you read all these amazing reviews. My cancer vanished in a week. Well, that didn't work, so it's different, isn't it, for everyone? But you have your spidey senses because it's you and it's your body, and you we also have a choice and a decision, we're allowed.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Yes, and the thing is that you know, we need to learn how to advocate for ourselves, yeah. Because the medical system is like, oh, what the fuck do you mean you're not gonna do chemo? Yeah, motherfucker. I mean, no, that's what I mean. There's not too many, like you know, and then all of a sudden, oh, there is another treatment. Really?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

And so, what did the other treatment entail then?

SPEAKER_02 16:12

And that was it was immunotherapy, uh, so it yes, clearly it worked because I'm fucking here, but uh I think it was immunotherapy, right, which was less aggressive, yeah. So the problem, the problem that I had at the time is I was still so I I was diagnosed at 46, so I still had my period. This treatment that I got after making the big fuss was for post-menopausical women. So, what they did in order to do this treatment, they induced my menopause chemically early. Wow, I was like, okay, like shit, I don't have PMS anymore. Like, let's go. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Double win, double win.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Right, yeah. So my doctor, uh, when I when I moved back to Vegas, and um, you know, we continue the treatment, and he was like, Well, you know, like you might transition into menopause, like when we stop the treatment, because I'm already in in almost I don't know, 57, whatever. Uh, and he's like, Your body might naturally just continue into menopause, right? Because the risk was that I stop, so I will get a shot every month, yeah, to stop to block the hormones. Wow, so he was like, You might not get a period, a period. And I'm like, Do I suck your dick right now or later? Because it's like, I don't want a period, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not, yeah. So, and thank god uh they stopped the treatment and I transitioned naturally, like my body transitioned naturally in you. So my last uh period was on June 29th of 2012. Let's fucking celebrate. How do I know? Because it's my birthday.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

That's it. Wait, what's your what date is your birthday? June 29th. Oh, I'm June 17. Yeah, yeah, yes, coming up. Our birthday's coming soon, coming up.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yeah, that was right. So that was my last official period, and then they started with a treatment. Wow, and I've been PMS free for 14 years. Life is good, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Incredible. And so through your recovery, you then did you you got your college, did you get you got your did your training and you changed course, and you now are a therapist, and you moved to Panama. And you moved to Panama.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

After after my my uh my intent, like so the first part of the treatment, which was very intensive, three years into my treatment, I moved back to the United States and I did my master's, and then I started my uh my career as a therapist. And and yes, when I moved to Panama, I continued to work with my clients in the United States from Panama. So I worked virtual. Uh I just moved my practice to fully virtual and I continue to provide services because interesting enough, in Panama, uh therapy is a protected profession, which means that only Panamanians can provide the services to Panamanians. How about that, right? Like, if you want to do immigration, like you have to go through a Panamanian attorney, like so they are protecting their own by like you wanna fucking come here, that's fine, but you're gonna do it our way.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Fascinating. So, but you are allowed to practice virtually, you can't practice in there, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Because I'm not providing services to people here.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

What sidetrap, side note, is that common in Panama? Are there like a bunch of other protected jobs in Panama?

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yes, there is a whole list of protective uh professions, and you you can you can type it on on Google like protective professions in Panama, and all of them come up. Uh being an attorney is another one, it's protected. Well, like to do immigration, you get a go like when I immigrated to the United States, I did immigration on my own. Yeah, here I had to go to an attorney. Yeah, that's immigration. Doesn't even fucking open the door for your ass, like you have to have a Panamanian attorney, and I speak the language, right? Like in Spanish is my first language, but it has nothing to do with that. Is that you wanna fucking come here, you're gonna pay one of our attorneys, of course.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

God, that's so clever. So they're good on immigration, then they're tight on immigration.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Yes, well, and you know, I think they are so protective because of you know all the money laundering and shit through history, yeah. Like to open a book.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Is it a tax break? Is it a tax haven in Panama?

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Yes, I think it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Because I know that we're getting sidetracked, but this is what I like to do. There was a very famous story about a couple, right? They faked their own death. Uh, since this guy said he went, this is this, I think it was an English guy. He uh they went to Panama, and then he they faked that he went out on a kayak, and he faked his own death, sunk the kayak, left like a his his flip-flop on the beach, vanished, and then his wife thought he was dead, and it turns out the whole thing had been a scam so she could collect his life insurance. And it was all in Panama as well, so there was like no taxes and all this business, and then they both went to prison. So it's like be careful what you plan. Do you know what I mean?

unknown 22:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Especially if it's not legal, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Especially if you're bad at faking your own death. Come on, guys.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Uh so I pay, so this is my first time uh filing taxes while I'm abroad, but I'm I pay taxes, so I'm licensed in several states, but my income comes through Nevada, so I pay taxes in the United States because my income comes from the United States.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

That's where you're registered. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes good sense. Okay, so tell us about your um business. I listen, I fucking love the swearing, and you're literally called the swearing therapist, right? Because and I guess you can't can you can you can't help it? I can't fucking help it. Like, I just even when I've got my kids around, I'll be like, what the fuck is up with that guy? And I'll be like, oh Christ. And then I'll be like, oh shit. And I'll be like, oh, sorry, fuck, you know. So my four kids, they swear now. And I just that's part of my personality. So this is brilliant, by the way. So, how do your clients feel about you giving them advice with your terrible language, which I love, by the way?

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Right. So here is the thing like I believe bad words are hunger and violence and discrimination in those. Are the bad words no fuck and shit? Right? Like, yeah, so it's like uh I became a recovered people pleaser when I when I was diagnosed with cancer because I was a people pleaser, believe it or not. And I so I'll be like, Oh, I'm not gonna swear because you might get offended. Yeah, uh, but I didn't work this hard for it to sit in my own fucking office and be like, oh fudge, I'm gonna say fuck. You know what I mean? Like, sugar, like you know exactly what the fuck I'm saying. So uh when I have a consultation call with a potential client, yeah, shit and fuck is gonna come out of my mouth. If you have a problem with that, I'm not the therapist for you. I will provide you with referrals, yeah, but I'm not, I'm not like this is my way of being authentic, yeah. And I want you to feel comfortable so that you can be authentic too. So, like when I work with a psychiatrist and he does the initial assessments and then he refers certain people to me, yeah, and you can see their faces, like sometimes he forgets to tell the client that I swear, so I'm like, what the fuck is that? And they're like, you know, can I swear? Of course you can swear. This is your fucking time, right? Like so the thing is that it helps me be authentic, yeah. And it because I can be the best therapist in the world, but if I if we don't click, if we don't connect, we're not gonna get anywhere, yeah. Because you're not gonna trust me, and and you're not gonna open up. So it's like, and one time I had a client, bless bless her heart, she is a Mormon lady, and I said, Are you sure you want to work with me? And she's like, No, no, yes, I want to work with you. She didn't, she didn't cast, of course. Yeah, and I was like, Fuck this and bitch that and whatever. But I told her, like, yeah, this is what you you know, and we had great success because she was able. So one time I had uh a host actually, she was like, Oh, so you want people to swear? I'm like, no, I want people to be free. If you want to swear, yeah, go swear. If you don't want to swear, I this is my way of being authentic. Yeah, I'm not telling anybody to swear, but this is the way that I talk, yeah, right. Like in the in the era of like, oh, so politically correct. It's like, no, but I did ask you uh before we start recording, do you want me to keep it clean? Yeah, because one time I had a host, it was a live show. Oh shit, that was on my whole era, because like at the beginning, when I started doing podcasts, I will say yes to everybody, I will not fucking read anything about you. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The guy said, Oh, we're going live, and um you cannot swear because I'm a I'm a pastor, and I was like, Yeah, fuck. So I'm like, Lord, please don't let me say fuck, Lord, please don't let me say bitch. The longest 60 minutes of my life, right? But I I learned that I can keep my authenticity and keep it clean.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah, oh that's good.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

So since then, I asked the host, you want me to keep it clean? Yeah, because I respect you and your audience, right? You're inviting me into your phone.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

I I appreciate that. I mean, I again I I swear, and sometimes my guests will be like, oh, you know, because what because when even when I introduced this the title, I'll say, Well, that fucked me up. And some people they everyone laughs because they just they never heard it said out loud. It's such a great title for a podcast. But some people I know they don't appreciate the actual because they think it's well that effed me up, or well that you know, whatever. So when I say well that fucked me up, some people go, they're gonna, oh, you know, oh um, so this is great. Now, just to wrap up, what is your like who are you who are you uh doing therapy for? Is it women, is it men, is it everyone, and is it specific to a specific kind of right?

SPEAKER_02 28:02

So area. I I used to work with children uh in in I pay my dues. Like I don't do that anymore. I work with adults, but not because of the children. The children are great, but it's the parents that I have a problem with, it's not the child, right? Like so I tell the parent, like, oh okay, so this is the homework, and I don't have time. Bitch, what you want me to do with your kids for 50 minutes? And you have your kid for six days, 23 hours, and 10 minutes. Like we gotta work together. So, my ideal client is a self-inspired adult, self-disciplined adult who wants to get better. Like, if you don't want to get better, I'm not the therapist for you. We're gonna hit the ground running. And I specialize in anxiety, depression, and trauma. And I say this because a lot of people think that they are ready to do therapy, they are not, because therapy is a lot of work, yeah. It is so when it gets hard and it's like, oh shit, like listen, I'm gonna give you homework, right? And if you don't do it, guess what the fucking homework next week is gonna be? The same shit that I give you last week because you didn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, yeah, you gotta do the work.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Because how do I know if this shit works if you don't use it? Now, if you try it and you tell me that shit didn't work, perfect. I'll give you different tools. Yes, we start with the basic tools, but if you don't practice it, yeah, you are the one with the fucking anxiety. Of course, my anxiety, I process it with my therapist, you know what I mean? Yeah, of course. So and when I tell my my clients, like oh, my therapist said that you go to therapy, I'm like, yeah, motherfucker, like I'm human. Yeah, I think we should all should go to therapy. We need that neutral person, yeah. Of course, when you are in the picture, you cannot see the picture. You need that neutral person to give you a different perspective, yeah, right? Like, so it's like we are gonna work together, we are a team, and I don't fucking tell if you come to me because you want answers, I barely know what the fuck to do with my own life, let alone tell you what to do with yours. I don't know, I don't have the answers, yeah. But we are gonna find it together, together, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah, of course. I used to go to therapy and always think I knew best, and so therap, talk therapy was always a problem for me because I I I know what's wrong with me. Like I'm a I am an anxious, depressed, traumatized human being. Now I've worked on that, right? And I've used to drink and take drugs for most of my life to to try and deal with that trauma and that pain. And I finally, finally managed to stop seven years ago. And that's what brought me to my journey of finding myself, finding understanding my actions, why I feel the way I feel about myself, you know, and build myself back up like from scratch, from nothing, from like an from from like a piece of nothing, which is where I was seven years ago. So like anxiety is something I deal with every day, depression is something I don't deal with anymore, and trauma is something that I'll live with for the rest of my life, but I'm completely aware of all of the things that traumatise me and all of the things that trigger me. Now, does that mean I can go through every day without being triggered? No. But am I able to see why I'm feeling that way for something that happened that somebody might have made a comment that was completely fine, but it reminded me of my abusive father, and it made me feel like shit, and they have no idea that that's how I'm feeling, and then I start to behave weird, and it's all in my own fucking head, and I have to then work through that because every single day is a fucking roller coaster, so exactly that's where I am, that's my update.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

But because, well, first of all, congratulations on your recovery. Like that is such a huge achievement, and it's a fucking everyday thing. How did you achieve seven years? One fucking day at a time, yeah, one craving at a time, every day, right? It's like it's not like oh I already got this. It's like, no, yeah, you are gonna get triggered, you're gonna have a craving, and it's about pushing through when that shit happens, yeah. But being aware of like, oh, that is triggering for me, it's not about not having the anxiety or not having the depression, or no, it's about not remaining, it's being in control. Oh, I'm feeling anxious. What can I do about that? Rather than I cannot function because I don't know that I'm anxious, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah, yeah, it's so true. I mean, not to turn this into a therapy session, but for me, it's the overthinking. And it's funny, my partner, she's the same. She we're the same. Like, she'll take a conversation she's just had with somebody at work, and then she'll take every single word and syllable to pieces, and then she'll decide that she said 57 things wrong and it could have gone better. And I'm just like, no, not normal people don't do that. Normal people have a conversation and then they go and they go on a bike ride, or they go and they fucking forgot the right to another conversation. Uh and some people she prepares the entire conversation in her head and then has the conversation, then unpacks. Woo! And then me, I'm like having pretend imaginary thoughts about something that somebody said three weeks ago that might or might not have been uh meant in a certain way. What the fuck is that all about?

SPEAKER_02 33:47

It's exhausting. I love it. And you're married to each other, like she might be you may be driving or crazy because you are not analyzing it.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

She helps me and I help her, right? She called me, she's away, she said, I just did this and I went thing and I think it went well. And then this person said that I said, I don't you don't need to tell me the entire dinner. You don't need to tell me every single thing that's any it's just you're done. Did you offend anybody? No. Did you feel uncomfortable? No. Did it feel like you had a good time? Yes. The end. Go to sleep. Right? And then for me, I'm showing her an email that I received from somebody, which I've taken to be completely offensive because of the way I'm reading it, because I'm reading it in the in the tone of my dad, my late father. I read it to her and she goes, What is wrong with you? Like, that is like the a perfectly polite, normal email of somebody asking you to do something. I'm like, oh god, what's happening? You know, this is this is the this is our lives.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

But what you are saying is so interesting because it happens a lot with emails and text messages. Yeah, I'm reading it. Oh, Luke said that's not what you said.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

That's not how I said it.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

No, no, you said, Oh, I'm gonna be five minutes late. Sorry for the inconvenience. Yeah, oh, I don't fucking give a shit about your time. Like, where did that did that come from?

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

You're apologizing for being five minutes late, right? Like, so it's like we start giving those uh tones to to the conversation, and it changes everything, and it's like, yeah, you know what? It's okay, and uh it's absolutely okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Uh Zoma, we have to we have to wrap up. What an amazing, wonderful conversation we've had. Now I know. Tell me where we can find you. You have a website, right, for your therapy. You're uh if you have any media, uh we and also I would include this on the show notes. So if you're listening, um when this goes live, if you're listening, uh please go to the show notes and we'll have any links for Zulma Williams. Um, but where where are you? Where do we where's where's the best spot?

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Yes, so I have my Instagram at the swearing therapist. Oh uh so follow me there. And uh my website is dragonflight therapy services.net, and I have my own podcast, it's called Keeping It Real with Zulma, the swearing therapist.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

So I'll I'll come on. Let me know. Let me know when you let me know when you need me, and we can have a well, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

I will love to have you. Uh for now, they are solo episodes because I I do appreciate being your guest, but being a host is a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

So it's like I hear you, I hear you. Yeah, well, this has been fucking brilliant. Um, I appreciate the amazing conversation. Thank you. I'm glad you're, you know, you listen the twists and turns of our lives, right? And the traumas. Um, and here we are, and here we are having a good time. Having a good time and laughing and realizing that you've got we've got one life, right? That's what I realize now. I've got one fucking life. So we're here for everybody. If you need to get in touch with Zooma, you can find her information on the show notes. And thank you, Zulma.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

Thank you for having me. And if I may, I like to close with this. If you woke up today, that means that your mission in life is not complete. Keep putting one foot in front of the other, and you're gonna come on the other side of the challenge you're currently facing. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

The end. Thanks, Zilma.