Well, That F*cked Me Up! Surviving Life Changing Events.
Well, That F*cked Me Up! Surviving Life Changing Events.
S6 EP26: Leslie's Story - My Journey Through Infertility and Surrogacy
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This week we welcome Leslie Lopez, host of Mothers in Arms and an advocate for accessible third-party reproduction. She speaks openly about stillbirth, infertility, and the mental health journey of building a family through surrogacy, as a single mother.
Leslie spent six years working with California Fertility Partners before having her biological daughter as an independent parent via egg donation and gestational surrogacy.
Her story isn't just about the medical process — it's about the unexpected grief, the tools she built to survive the emotional weight of six years of treatment, and how she found hope and community on the other side.
Leslie discusses the mental health side of infertility, and navigating trauma while pursuing parenthood, and building resilience through non-traditional family structures.
Thanks Leslie!
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Welcome to another episode of Well, That Fucked Me Up. I am your host, Luke Colson, and today we're joined by Leslie Lopez. Hi, Leslie.
SPEAKER_01Hello.
SPEAKER_00How are we doing?
SPEAKER_01I'm so happy to be here. How can we complain? California weather.
SPEAKER_00Can't complain at all. Right now I'm sitting in a booth, but um I hear it's nice out there. Um so you're in California. Great.
SPEAKER_01I am, Los Angeles. Same!
SPEAKER_00So um thanks for coming on the podcast. Each week we have a guest who comes on and we talk about surviving life-changing events and experiences. And that can be anything. That can be physical, mental, can be emotional, can be relationships, can be diagnosis, can be something you went through, some normally resulting in some sort of trauma, uh, some sort of adversity, knocked you off the tracks of life. And we like to talk about the journey through and what you learned and where you are today. So, Leslie, with that, where would you like to begin?
SPEAKER_01Goodness me. Um, I mean, how many times have we been knocked off, gotten ourselves dusted up and gone, right? Which one to choose?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um, but I feel like for me, the biggest one, you know, is what during COVID, um, when the world shut down. Um, a part of me was so happy that the world shut down at the same time that I shut down. Uh at that point in my life, I had exited my marriage. I had embarked on an independent surrogacy journey. And it felt like I had left Earth and was sort of on my way to Mars with the sort of standstill of the world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And a part of me stayed floating in this unknown, in this being scared of. I focused on the germs. Are you washing your vegetables? Are you quarantining? Are you all of the things that worry that had us worrying, you know? Yeah. Um, I should have been focusing on my healing, my reflection, my nesting, my getting ready for this child that was coming into my life. Um, even more so because I wasn't carrying her. Yeah. You know, she was hundreds of miles away, even more so of a time to have nested. Yeah. Um, because of that time, I wasn't allowed to go into doctor's appointments. I wasn't allowed, like all the things made it so much harder. Yeah, of course. Um in that in that point, you know, the isolation being out of sight, out of mind, really messed with me.
SPEAKER_00Wow, that's wild. And obviously, you started, we're gonna take a couple of steps back because obviously I want to talk about your journey into then deciding on the surrogacy, right? Because that's a huge part of your story, I'd imagine, and why you did that and what that decision making looked like. But then I'm assuming you went ahead with the surrogacy and the pregnancy, and that's when COVID hit. So you've got all this stuff going on, but you can't reach the stuff that's going on because now there's other priorities. I remember going to C CVS pharmacy with washing up gloves on.
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_00Because I'm allowed to go to pharmacies, and I'm like, well, look, we need to get out of the house, so let's go for a stroll around CVS because it's a nice big store. And washing up gloves on. And my girlfriend had like a like goggle. We look like Right. Where are we going? What is happening here? Washing, yeah, washing the more the watermelons from Ralph. We laughed now, but what the hell? We went through that as a as a as a world. So can we take a step back and start at your the journey of your desire to have a child, if that's not too personal.
SPEAKER_01No, I feel like I was always on the fence about it. Sometimes I wanted to be a parent and other times I did it. Yeah. Um, sometimes I was able to just sort of put my head down into work and and you know, work was my my my babies, right? Work was my family. It was very easy for me to just go, go, go. That's what we're supposed to do when we're young, right? Yeah, of course. Um, but when I discovered I had infertility in my mid-30s, um, it really put a shift on my desire to be a parent. It seemed really hard to get through all of the medical needs, all of the ups and downs, the the arguments with my husband at the time of do we want to keep doing this? Do we not want to do this? Like, this is hard. It's supposed to be natural, you know. Yeah. You have people telling you, oh, you're trying to have a family, just go on vacation. Yeah. You know, you'll get pregnant on vacation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's hard. It's funny to people who haven't started the journey of children yet. When I we I have two boys, and when we and with my now ex-wife, uh, and I have another personal question to ask you, which is like, do you was the infertility and that journey, did that play a big part in your marriage and how your marriage yes and no.
SPEAKER_01Um, it turns out we both suffered from infertility. Um, my ex-husband suffered from male factor infertility. And at that point, when we discovered that he also wasn't able to provide a biological child, instead of talking about it, we just put it under the rug. Yeah. And we just let's go on about life. Yeah. Right. Like there was never a talking about it. Um, when we did talk about it, my ex-husband's older than me, he already had a family. It was a bit of, well, I don't want to be the one to muck this up, I don't want to be the one to, you know, hold us back from enjoying the grandchildren we had at that point, right? Like my stepgrandchildren. I think at that point, when I was seeing um how I was reacting to my stepdaughter and my stepgrandchildren, and there was this bit of God, I'm not in it yet. And we did argue about why are you not happy for them? Why don't you want to go to the baby showers? Why don't you want to go to the first baby celebrations? You know what? Because it made me uncomfortable. Really, I want that, and I I couldn't have it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's yeah, that's heartbreaking in a way, isn't it? Because they're not you want your you, yeah, you want your child, and it's painful to not be able to do that, I suppose, right?
SPEAKER_01It is at that point. I didn't really have a lot of options left. Um, part of why I do what I do, talking about infertility, um, is it's exactly that. I don't want other people to miss their windows after the age of mid-30s. Like young people, millennials, Gen Xers, right? Anyone between the age of mid-20s to mid-30s, right now, has an opportunity to make that choice for themselves. Do I want a family? Do I not want a family? May I want a family? What steps can you take right now so that you're not stuck later in life not having options?
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. Let's come to that in a moment because I've got I'm we're going, I'm my fault, we're going off about four strands here because I've got all these questions. I was gonna say when I had kids, it's my God, it's hard to get pregnant. Like I know some people are just like, oh, we accidentally got pregnant, and then oh, we got pregnant again, and oh well, we got pregnant. I know people who have five, six kids, it's like they just seem to be like having babies every time I speak to them, and that's great. But for me, for us, it was like there's a window, there's a window. I was a 40-something year old man when I was trying to when we were trying to get pregnant first time, and oh no, there's a window, there's a window, and then it's three days, and I'm ovulating, and quick now, come. I'm like, what is of course that's not in the movies, right? And then another month goes by, then as a month goes by, and you know, it was six months to have our first kid, and I think it was nine or ten months to have our second kid, and no one tells you about that. Like we were gonna have children two years apart, and we have children three years apart. That's no problem, but it's not it's not easy. And the other thing I was gonna say was is there is there, I think, as a man, is there an element of shame attached to finding out you're infertile?
SPEAKER_01There is, there is for men and for women, right? Um, I see I I see how my ex-husband dealt with it when he would call it when his soldiers were working, right? That's times I would get pregnant, but I couldn't finish those pregnancies, right? But the mood was, thank you. The mood was like, I did it, I got it. Let's tell everybody, call the phone and celebrate. Right? But you don't pick up the phone to say, we lost it, or you know, gosh, you know, like this happened. Like, no, we don't want to talk about that.
SPEAKER_00But also, like, you know, in the UK, we're very strict about like the 12-week term, right? No one says anything. Like you might whisper something to your friend, by the way, we're pregnant. But in England, it's like you don't announce till 12 weeks because abort, you know, um um miscarriages happen. Again, I'm not an expert, you're clearly an expert, I'm not, but as far as I know, you know, in the first, you know, two, three, four, five, six, seven weeks. But normally there's a hump, right? 12 weeks onwards, you're in a slightly safer zone. So everyone might just be a British thing. We're all gonna be like, we're pregnant, it's but it's been three months, you know, because it's safer to tell people.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, I hear you. I I mean, unfortunately, I mean, yeah, you think you think you're in the safe zone, but you know, I'm learning there is no safe zone. There really is in a safe zone, right? Um, it could go on and you could lose a child up until goodness, I mean, any at any point.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um but yes, um, a little bit more on that. Like, I feel like people who suffer from infertility see it as, you know, like it's a you're the minority. You are you're not working the way nature is supposed to be the way nature is supposed to be. And and that's not true. We're one in six people who suffer from infertility, yeah, um, both male and female, for so many reasons, right? There's like at least two dozen reasons on the textbook, right? Um, so yeah, it's it's there is no shame there in saying, you know what, this doesn't work that way or that doesn't work that way. Like there's resources for you. If you want to be a parent, yeah, not everybody needs to be a parent, not everybody should. Yes. But if you want to do it, you kind of need to plan it a little bit. You need to think in advance a bit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so let's get to that.
SPEAKER_01So your marriage ended, and you had COVID didn't exist at this point, and then you were a single Well, it it actually was happening, it was it all happened at the same time.
SPEAKER_00At what point had you decided after your marriage that you wanted to be a mum? And how did you go about finding out? Because it sounds like that in itself is you know, you're now helping people do this, but uh where to start with that?
SPEAKER_01Where to start? Um, you know, I created my embryo with my ex-husband. We used a donor male to create the embryo. So to this day, I don't know who the male male donor is when my daughter's 18. She we will find out. Wow, but because my ex-husband was surf suffering from infertility, you know, together we created this embryo.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_01The waiting game of finding a surrogate, right? That takes that took a while, almost a year. Almost a year. Yeah, and so in that time, right, things change, right? Things go up and down, people go up and down. Um, it was it kind of all crescendoed at the same time. And the surrogacy agency said to me, Oh, we have your surrogate ready, you know, your contracts here, ready to go. Um, and that sort of at the same time, you know, in talking about that, we were not on the same page. Um, I discovered infidelities, I discovered just things that actually, you know, although I was married for eight years, it we were not on we I just wasn't seeing things clearly.
SPEAKER_00Um what tell me about finding a surrogate and how that works. And you're you're vetting the surrogate because that surrogate is wonderfully uh volunteered to carry your child and then give your child to you afterwards, which in itself I would love to have someone who does that on the podcast because I have to understand why and how, but you need to make sure that that surrogate is the right person because they are kind of a part of the child, right?
SPEAKER_01They're a part of the story 100%. They become a part of your family, they're your guardian, right? 100%. Um, you would use an agency. Uh yes, you can do this independently, but it that definitely opens up the door for more error and just think if you've never done this before, that's it's really like the wild, wild west. I recommend going with a vetted agency that has the right ethics. You know, there's a organization called Seeds, and they have a list of agencies that are vetted there. That's a wonderful place to start. Once you go there, you know, you you do like a little like bio of yourself. This is who I am, this is my family, this is what I'm looking for. Ideally, I wanted them in the same state as me. I did not want to get on a plane. Yeah, I didn't want to do that, but people do. Yeah. Um, certainly when you're dealing with international laws with countries who don't allow surrogacy, right? Who have to come to the states. There's even that element. Yeah. Um, so once you're there, then yeah, you just you you, it's the waiting game of do they live where you want them to live? You know, all of that. But to be a surrogate, you have to have children of your own. You have to have the right support around you. You don't have to be married, but you do need to have a strong support system to help you with your daily.
SPEAKER_00What is the this is a weird question. And it's not really directed at you because you weren't the surrogate, but what drives people to become surrogates? Is there, I'm assuming there's financial incentive, but are people doing it as like a business transaction, or are people doing it because they want the experience, or what tends to drive?
SPEAKER_01There's both. There's both. For sure, the financial element, which in California begins at you know 50,000, 55,000 and up from there. Um, these women found it that having you know their own children was not too difficult for them, right? It was there was it was with some type of ease where they want to be able to help other families, or maybe it was kind of very traumatic for them, but then they found a way, and then they want to help others, right? All of them saw that becoming a parent, what joy brought to them, yeah. They want to help people who can't.
SPEAKER_00That's incredible, isn't it? Because it's almost a bit of a sacrifice. You're giving up your body for nine months, ten months. You're giving up, but you're wow. Okay, so many questions. So let's go back to you and your search for the right surrogate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so she um, yeah, we just kind of waited around and she, we were the right fit. When when it was time to sign the contract, I was worried that I was gonna be rejected by them because I no longer had a husband. Am I gonna be allowed to do this by myself? Is this okay? I didn't know anyone who had done this by themselves. So the fact that they said, no worries, you're by yourself, let's do this. Even though your, you know, your husband isn't there anymore. If you want to do this, let's go. You've got the healthy embryos, why not? And so off I went. And they really they had done this before. They had been uh the I say they because it was a husband and wife who really worked together. Wow, he drove her everywhere, he helped her with the shots, he was team baby.
SPEAKER_00Um that's incredible. But it's also now that I realize that kind of finance is involved, like maybe it's a hundred grand sometimes, then essentially that person is that's their full-time job. They're earning, right? They're bringing in money. So you have to make it.
SPEAKER_01It can be, yeah, it can be a hundred percent. Um, some keep on with their regular jobs, right? Depending on what it is. But the contract that you sign with them, right? This requires legal, yeah, right. It also requires, by the way, medical. I should backtrack to this person has to be vetted by the doctors, right? Is everything working? Is the stomach lining correct? Is this right? Like everything gets checked. There's also a mental health check, right? Are are these people in it for the right reasons, right? Are you mentally of a sound mind where you can handle all that comes with being pregnant and having your own life, right?
SPEAKER_00Like it has to happen. Yeah, of course. And you also you read stories where suddenly they don't want to give the baby up after all of that. Do you know what I mean? Worst case scenario.
SPEAKER_01That's very rare. Those stories are very, very rare. Interesting, good, yeah. Usually it's through independent journeys, right?
SPEAKER_00That's why you should go through the agency and have everything vetted correctly. Yes. Okay, good to know. Okay, so you thank you for clearing that up. And and steal the babies. No, they don't, they don't steal the babies.
SPEAKER_01They normally don't. The last thing they want is like another mouth to feed, right? Like these are that's it's like super expensive to be a parent.
SPEAKER_00Of course, of course, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So um it's like yeah, here's my job. Here you go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, amazing. So you found the surrogate and off you go.
SPEAKER_01And off we and it literally was COVID. It was March. It was March of Christ, literally COVID.
SPEAKER_00When when were you all told to stay indoors? Was that March?
SPEAKER_01It was indoors, stay indoor if you're outdoors, right? You six feet apart, like all of this. Um so it was wild to you know not be there. And her husband was going with her to the appointments, and I would get called on FaceTime, and I, you know, but what was happening there is I literally just focused on, like I said, other things. I mean, I even found myself this is I was online dating, I was like uh mixology classes, cooking classes. I mean, you name it, I was in it, and and I can't say the mixology classes helped me in any way, you know. Uh I can make an amazing gin fizz, but like piling up the alcohol. Yeah, alcohol did not help me. And you know, at that point I was in my mid-40s, and um, yeah, I because it was I was isolated and depressed and worried, you know, 100% I became dependent on alcohol and cannabis. And what year what year are we? Everything other than nesting. 2020.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I was so I think we're the same age, and I was uh two years one, I was a year and a half into sobriety during COVID, cracking my horrific alcoholism and c COVID came along. And so I I've realized if I can get through COVID and not relapse, I've cracked it. And so it's been just over seven years now. And so I thank God that I didn't relapse during COVID because I don't think I would have made it out alive, if I'm completely honest with you. But it's a testament to like, you know, COVID drove people crazy. Like the homeschooling for me, I was homeschooling too my two kids with the Zoom, the teachers on Zoom. Some of the teachers were on Zoom and they were like on mute for the whole lesson, and all the kids were holding up signs saying, We don't hear you, you know. Oh my goodness. I'll never forget. I'll never forget the homeschooling. But so it's but I know a lot of people that became I know a lot of people in my community, a sober community that relapsed nearly killed themselves during COVID. You know, it drove us all to the to the edge. So imagine you with the surrogacy going on, and we we we didn't know what to do, did we? We didn't know where to turn, didn't know what was going on.
SPEAKER_01And then, like, no one was in this space with me, right? I didn't have a roommate, a boyfriend, a bar by when you're by yourself to your own devices, you know, excess is everywhere.
SPEAKER_00100%. So the surrogacy reaches its full term, what happens next?
SPEAKER_01So suddenly I have a baby, right? So it's like, oh, here you hear. So I've discovered this in talking to psychologists and talking to other other independent parents, or just anyone going through surrogacy. There's a fourth trimester that comes, right? We just like women go through postpartum. Parents, parents also go through their own way, their own version of postpartum, right? You you are flying through life as you want it, and then suddenly here is this infant who's needs this, this and that, and this, this and that. And you cannot just go to the gym. You can't just go to the grocery store. I mean, the whole thing of like getting the car seat out and parking, like all of this is suddenly a whole thing. Of course. And um, you know, that also caused depression. That it really, really, it really did cause a hard time for me.
SPEAKER_00Single parenting as well is you know, a bait single parenting with a newborn. You know, I saw some friends on the weekend and they've got two children who are now one and three. And there's two of them doing that. There's two of them. And they were, you could tell the stress on their faces. They both of them were very open about the fact they were having a really fucking hard time. Really hard time. And they were trying their best to not take it out on each other. And they're as a result, their relationship was strained. And that's just that's two people trying to try to deal with parenthood. Single parenting is hard as hell. Yeah. I know that, Luke.
SPEAKER_01I mean, if if I didn't have my family living so close to me, like within two miles from me, right? If I didn't have a babysitter who was like being responsible about germs and and all of this, like COVID testing and all of that that it required, I don't know where I'd be. I honestly I don't I don't recommend going into this without having support network set up. Not everybody could afford a babysitter, full-time child care. Look, it's expensive. I get it. $25 an hour and up, right? But so yeah, what well I found myself being like resentful of having this infant, right? Like suddenly, everything I fought for six years, you know, here's this bundle of light in my arms, and I'm supposed to be ecstatic. And you see all the mom videos, and they're all pushing their strollers, and everyone's so happy. And I was not.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_01But because I was alone, I just braved it. I I just pretended, I pretended to be ecstatic and not want to burden people with my struggles.
SPEAKER_00That's so tough because you've also like dreamed of this moment. And so in yourself, you're thinking, I'm meant to be happy now, I'm meant to be fulfilled. And so that must have felt kind of tough. Like, why don't I feel how I'm meant to feel? But of course, no one's no one's meant to feel any kind of way. You you feel how you feel, right?
SPEAKER_01You feel how you feel is right.
SPEAKER_00How did you get through that?
SPEAKER_01I uh well, I found myself lying to my mental therapist at the time, like not fully divulging what I really what I stopped myself from saying, what I was really experiencing. Yeah. I really thought that if I was honest with this person, that she would call child care services and like take away my child. You know? Yes. Um, so I switched to mental health therapists. I found someone that was experienced in the world of third-party reproduction, right? Someone who has taken classes, all the nuances that it requires of someone having a child through assisted reproductive technology, right? And there, instead of having to like explain, well, this is how it worked, or this is, you know, they already knew all that. They already knew they pulled it out of me. They created a safe space where they've I wasn't the first one coming feeling like this, right? Knowing that there was a world out there of people struggling, talking about the struggles, not just the happy time, allowed me to open up. And every time I talk about it, even right now, right? Like it literally helps me to think like I need to. This is I made this choice. I I made all these sacrifices for this. Like, yeah, how like seeing it for what it is, the positive that what it that it is like 100%. I want to stay in the positive. I want to be there for my daughter when she's a teenager, right? I want to be, I want to see it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Gosh, it's it's it's affects your mental health in such a huge way. But that's that's amazing that you found such a niche therapist who was you you're right. You didn't have to explain the notion of what you did so she can get on, or he or she can get on board with how you may or may not feel. You you found someone who really helped you. So let's talk about what, and it sounds like things are good now. Things are happy, happy times, daughter good.
SPEAKER_01Things are good. Yeah. I have a five and a half year old, right? Who I I think when when I see that, you know, being a parent, like I'm not, I don't have to like keep showing her, do this, do this, do this. When I'm able to stand back and let her teach me, right? Like really like see the lessons that comes from this world of of infancy and like a discovery, right? And and let myself get on that ride as opposed to the yeah, yeah, do this, that side, you know, when when I unlearn the way I was parented, the way I think parenting should be, when I take myself out of the role of that's where I was supposed to be, that's what I'm supposed to be doing, and just accept my here and now, right? Yeah, not married, I'm turning 50 this year, yeah. I have a five and a half year old who's so positive and loves life. Like I can just focus on that, not where I want to be next year or where I'm not right now. Like I'm blessed.
SPEAKER_00That's a gift right there. And I think everyone will always tell you if you can try and live in the now, you will be a much happier person for it. Because I used to be like, if I get to here, I'll be happy. If I get to here, I'll be happy. If I make this much money, I'll be happy. If I find myself a girlfriend, I'll be happy. If I didn't, I was never happy because I was chasing this dead false deadline of nothingness. So now I realize that the desk I always say this, the destination is here, where I am, right now, sitting in this booth talking to you. That's the destination. It doesn't need to be anywhere else. It doesn't matter. Like tomorrow's a new day, but I don't know what tomorrow's going to be, and then I would have forgotten about today, so I might as well enjoy today. And once I started understanding that and really living in that mindset, I completely changed. I was able to get myself sober, I was able to deal with all of my traumas because I was running away and running away and running away and chasing false happiness. So I love that you had that epiphany. I'm 52. 50s is awesome, by the way. Like the best. Having a great time.
SPEAKER_01Chasing false, what did you say? Chasing false um deadlines. Deadlines. Deadlines.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh exactly. I feel like because of my age, right? Knowing like focusing on those moments of my life where I felt like I had everything, right? Those moments of like, wow, I was at the top of the world. Everyone thought that was like the best of life, and I'm not there anymore. And so I I was down on myself a lot for making those decisions. Yeah. Stepping away from places in my life that would have given me everything. Yeah. Like, well, I made those decisions, right? I made them for a reason.
SPEAKER_00Who knows how you would have felt with that stuff. Who knows? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But how do I feel right now? I have the power of right now.
SPEAKER_00Correct. The power of right now. We're good at this. You're quite right. Yeah. So talk talk to us about right now. Let's wrap up. And I want to hear about what you're doing in terms of like helping others and the things that you know and the things that you found out. And at the beginning of this podcast, you were talking about planning, helping people plan, helping people do that journey and understanding what they're getting themselves into because you went in quite quite blind because you didn't have anyone to tell you how to do it.
SPEAKER_01I didn't. And when I look at what I did from the perspective of would I recommend this to other people? Would I recommend someone to go on an independent journey? Would I recommend someone to go on a surrogacy journey? Like all of it, I would I'd like to be to say that yeah, I do recommend it. I do don't have to go into debt for this, though. You don't have to be a one percenter. It doesn't have to cost you the $200,000 that it did cost me, right? You can take loans out, right? You can take, you can get grants, you can go to Costco Fertility. Thank you very much. Even Costco is in on it now where you can go to one of their lawyers and you can get half off IVF medication through them.
SPEAKER_00That's insane. Wow.
SPEAKER_01Every year, every year it keeps going, right? Um, there's also laws that I help advocate for, you know, um certain certain laws that come out there that are just they that seem like they're helping with surrogacy in IVF, but thanks to the help of certain fertility lawyers who help like show us what they really are, you know, and say, well, actually, although this law um looks like it's helping kids, for example, like the Save Kids Act, the way it's written, actually like we can't let that pass until it's written correctly. Let's all jump in and make sure that we say no, don't pass this law until it's written correctly, and that way we really can help save kids. Um there's a lot of holes still in this world. It's only been it's only 50 years old in America. And so, yeah, there's been some awful things that happen. You mentioned people trying to, you know, take the kids, or there's been people who, you know, did like had like 25 kids through surrogacy, or there's like some child predators that get through right. So we're all, I'm all about stopping, helping to stop things like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So use legal, use the right proper channels. You know, you don't cut corners by cutting legal out, you know, legal, not not only for yourself, but for the donors that you're using, whether it's a donor conceived or a surrogate, everybody needs to have legal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You know, um we had uh someone who came who was uh grew up in the in a very broken foster care system on the podcast. And that was absolutely harrowing because people do fostering for the money. N not not everyone, you're meant to do fostering because you want to help kids, but there is a large percentage of foster parents that are not good people and that do it for the money. The more foster kids they have, the more money they get from the government, and they don't spend the money that they get to bring to raise the kids on the kids. So the kids are left in squalor. I guess and that's their way of making money. Absolutely horrific. So I I hear you. There's all sorts of people trying to fuck fuck with the system, excuse my language. But are you doing this as a business now, helping people? Or what's what's what what's the deal?
SPEAKER_01I hope to one day start making money from this. I'm not yet, right? So right now, this is my passion project. I'm hoping to align myself with people that feel as passionate about as uh these topics as I do. You know, I hearing some of some doctors, some just politicians also talk about how in 10, 20 years, having children the quote unquote old-fashioned way is gonna be like playing Russian roule, right? Like, so for when my daughter, when it's her time to be a parent, like I want to have all the facts there for her. I need to think the way an alpha generation thinks, not the way a 50-year-old thinks, right? I need to think ahead of it just the way 20-year-olds are thinking now, you know. So whether it's talking to people in college, um, talking to, you know, OBGYN offices, whatever we can do to talk to our children about fertility and not just how not to have babies, right? Not just focus on don't get pregnant. Um, just focus on education.
SPEAKER_00It's really amazing. Uh, your journey sounds just so incredible, and it's it's been a brilliant episode. I've loved talking to you, and I'm you know, congratulations on your journey and your and your daughter and uh and your 50s, your incoming 50s. Thank you. Um where can we find you, Leslie? If you're listening to this podcast, uh you can find um Leslie's info on the show notes. But if people want to get in touch with you, what's what's best? Instagram, you have a website, anything like that?
SPEAKER_01Instagram, I have a YouTube page, it's at mothersandarms.pod, I'm on TikTok and Spotify.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Okay, so we're gonna have the links on the show notes. Um so click go find Leslie, get in touch, and just remains to me to say thank you so much for coming and chatting to us. Um, this has been wonderful.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me, Luke.