Eating Disorders Do NOT Have a Look. Fighting the Stereotypes.

In the UK this is Eating Disorders Awareness week, so we thought we should talk about it.

I have had too much lived experience with eating disorders as I'm sure many of you have had.

This week I have become enraged at eating disorders and what they have stripped from me and from my family's life.  But one key thing to remember is that by talking about eating disorders and the rising impact they are having on our young people, we are creating awareness.

Sophie @edinformed and Hope Virgo at @dump_the_scales are tirelessly campaigning for better care for those affected as well as more training for fitness professionals. They need our support so please check them out and follow them if you can.

If you are struggling, you are NOT alone.  Eating disorders do NOT discriminate nor are they a choice! Only 6% of people with an eating disorder are underweight.  They are NOT always visible.  The affect people of all races, genders and body sizes.

Let's have courage to talk about how we feel around food, movement and our bodies.  This is NOT surface level chat. There are SUCH entrenched stereotypes and our mission today is to help people realise what eating disorders actually are.

Listen to the podcast if you have ever been affected, are caring for a loved one who has been affected OR are worried about someone.

It's good to talk.

Love to you all

Ela and Christine x

Here are some resources that may be helpful to you:

https://www.edinformed.org/ - Sophie is advocating for mandatory training for all fitness professionals 

Instagram: @edinformed

https://www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/

Instagram: @beatedsupport

The Charlie Waller Trust - Offering fully funded eating disorder workshops for parents and carers

Instagram: @charliewalleruk

https://thenewmaudsleyapproach.co.uk/ - A resource for professionals and carers of people with eating disorders

https://firststepsed.co.uk/ Bringing hope and opportunities for all affected by eating difficulties and disorders - diagnosis or not.

Instagram: @firststepsed

Dump the Scales Campaign - Dump the Scales is a campaign is for anybody and everybody who cares about eating disorders and wants to change the way they are treated, as well as the stigmas, stereotypes and judgments often associated with them

Instagram: @dump_the_scales

Transcript

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Christine Chessman: So, welcome everybody to Find Your Strong Podcast. Ella and I haven't been here for ages.

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Ela Law: Because it seems like forever.

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Christine Chessman: Ever.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Ela Law: Yeah, loads of things sort of happened that meant we couldn't record.

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Ela Law: Here we are.

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Christine Chessman: It is so annoying, isn't it?

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Ela Law: Yeah, isn't it just?

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Christine Chessman: Getting in the way.

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Ela Law: It does, it does. But we're here now, aren't we? So…

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Christine Chessman: We're here, we're here. And I think, so we were kind of wondering what to chat about. There's always something to chat about, but it is… as we're recording, it's Eating Disorder Awareness Week, National Eating Disorders Awareness Week. In the UK. I'm not sure if that's the same.

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Christine Chessman: And stay at 5.

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Ela Law: they have a different week in the States. They may have a different week.

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Christine Chessman: But we just wanted to talk about awareness, really. This kind of comes off the back of our episode with Sophie from AD Informed.

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Christine Chessman: How can we be more aware, and how can we help, really? And it's… there's obviously big gaps in the fitness spaces that we attend and go to, and that nobody has any basic training on eating disorder awareness.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: And I'm sure that's true of any frigging app, any nutrition app, or any tracking app. There's never any questions around that, and those can obviously be used and abused.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, so I think it was just really a general chat on eating disorder awareness, Ella.

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Ela Law: Yeah, no, I think… yeah, I think it's something that needs to be talked about, because I would imagine that unless you've known… personally known someone with an eating disorder, or you've maybe had one yourself, it's very difficult to spot when there's something going on, because

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Ela Law: And I fear that is partly due to the fact that disordered eating, disordered exercise habits are so normalized. When you look around you, you go to…

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Ela Law: I don't know, you just, you just meet people, and the kind of stuff they say about their relationship with food that is being praised is like, oh, I didn't eat anything today, so I can have something tonight, or, oh, no, I, you know, I don't do this, I only eat, before, whatever, and… you know, all of these kind of things that are being normalized and being praised.

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Ela Law: That can actually also be a sign for an eating disorder. You know.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, it is just dieting.

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Ela Law: Yeah, exactly. It's just something that people say, oh, aren't you being good? And that feeds an eating disorder. It's like, oh yeah, I'm doing the right thing here.

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Ela Law: You know, and that's the scary thing, that there are so many nutrition hacks, or whatever you want to call them, so many, influencers that are saying, this is how you should eat, this is how you do this, that, and you lose fat, and what have you. It's all a load of bollocks, but it all feeds into this narrative of.

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Ela Law: Well, this is a normal, healthy way of eating.

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Ela Law: But it really isn't. It is pretty disordered most of the time, and if you have an eating disorder, you might display similar symptoms, or similar strategies, or eating behaviors to someone who actually has an eating disorder, and that's the thing that

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Ela Law: makes it really tricky, I think, to become aware.

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Christine Chessman: And this is why, you know, you also do not comment on somebody's wit.

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Christine Chessman: Because you have no idea what's happening to that person. You don't know if they're in the middle of an eating disorder, and they're really actually distressed, or if you're complementing their weight loss, it just fuels that eating disorder, just helps.

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Ela Law: helps them.

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Christine Chessman: Keep going down that road.

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Ela Law: So, and I think, obviously, eating disorders.

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Christine Chessman: Do not discriminate and affect people of all sizes, races, genders, etc.

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Ela Law: And that's also something which…

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Christine Chessman: people are not aware of. I think you think of an eating disorder, and you think of a thin, white teenage girl.

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Christine Chessman: Who's ultra-thin, and that is absolutely not the reality.

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Christine Chessman: And I think Sophie said that as well, didn't she? She really…

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Ela Law: Yeah, she did. I mean, that is one part of…

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Christine Chessman: It's one part small.

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Ela Law: of it, a small part of it, but there's so many other eating disorders that are sort of flying below the radar, and as I said earlier, probably behaviors that get praised because someone is

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Ela Law: seemingly trying to lose weight when they're actually restricting really heavily, or binging, or purging, or whatever's going on. So, it's one of those things that is just really tricky, and it's also… I do appreciate it, it's really difficult to approach that subject with somebody.

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Ela Law: Because anyone in the throes of an eating disorder will fight tooth and nail to keep that secret, and not…

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: say, I have a problem. No, I'm fine, it's all good, I know what I'm doing.

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Christine Chessman: But you've got this thing, so we're talking about the signs of an eating disorder, and you do have this thing where

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Christine Chessman: You know, obviously you should never comment on somebody's weight, but people… so, for example, for my daughter, it was her teacher, her dance teacher, that really…

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Christine Chessman: you know, told us he was worried about her, because she had changed. Obviously, she'd lost an awful lot of weight, but she was also becoming

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Christine Chessman: Smaller in the class, less, you know, just going into herself, she was behaving differently.

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Ela Law: So he did notice her wit.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? So that's… and I think if somebody is…

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Christine Chessman: it's more in distress. If you see signs that somebody might be having issues around food, or maybe missing skipping means, or struggling to eat around other people, or…

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Christine Chessman: You know, and just having a different relationship to the way they're moving, or how often they're moving, and…

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Christine Chessman: I think there's many, many signs, isn't there, that you can…

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Christine Chessman: Basic signs that we can be aware of.

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Ela Law: And when I say don't comment in somebody's way, I think if you're worried about somebody.

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Christine Chessman: You… if you know a person, and you see a dramatic decrease, increase, you know, obviously that gives cause for…

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Christine Chessman: A little bit of concern.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And do you think… so in those cases, do you think as a trusted person who's maybe a carer or a teacher, is it okay to then…

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Christine Chessman: approach that young person, Ella.

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Ela Law: I would say definitely. It's just a case of, you know, what changes do you notice? If it's just a change in weight, but other than that, there isn't anything significant, but usually an eating disorder comes with lots of different other changes.

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Christine Chessman: 100% of you.

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Ela Law: you know, your daughter's dance teacher noticed that she was withdrawing, and she wasn't… she was figuratively and, like, literally getting smaller, which wasn't her, it wasn't her personality, so I think if there is a change noticed in somebody that is of concern, because it's very different to what they're usually like.

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Ela Law: plus… weight loss, or possibly incredible weight gain could be, you know, if…

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Christine Chessman: Or it could, the thing is…

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Ela Law: Or you could just…

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Christine Chessman: Eating disorders such as bulimia and other eating disorders, you might not change at all.

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Ela Law: Oh, exactly.

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Christine Chessman: the weight might stay exactly the same, so it's really…

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Christine Chessman: It's more about the behaviors, and how people, you know, if they're secretive around how they're eating, or if they're very worried about ultra-processed foods all of a sudden, or if they will only eat a very small portion, or they don't want to eat around friends.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: You know, if they start exercising more than usual, if they're… you know, it just… if they change, if their personalities change, if they suddenly get very low, or if they get a bit more withdrawn, it's like checking in.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And your friends, and when I say commenting, I do mean, oh, wow, you look great, have you lost wit? We need to just take those words out of our vocabulary, and put them to one side, and never say them again.

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Ela Law: Yeah, absolutely.

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Christine Chessman: They're the most damaging words in the English language.

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Christine Chessman: To my knowledge. But, I would also say that, with eating disorders, this is something that I…

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Christine Chessman: I've read recently, and also have personal experience of, they often have comorbidities, so somebody might be also struggling with OCD, with body dysmorphic disorder, with, lots of different comorbidities. They might also be neurodivergent, etc.

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Christine Chessman: So, it can get sort of masked and, you know, but it is… I think for people in spaces, especially exercise, fitness spaces, or schools, or anywhere where

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Christine Chessman: a person is for a lot of time, or somebody's in that position of care, it's really important they have very basic understanding of what an eating disorder is, and how it impacts people, would you say?

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Ela Law: Absolutely, absolutely. Interestingly, I had, a meeting with a local primary school, not long ago, in, I think it was November,

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Ela Law: To talk about that, because they've had a couple of cases of children having anorexia, they've got, members of staff off with eating disorders.

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Ela Law: And I… I was just asked to come in and have a chat with them, and I think for places like schools in particular, it's really, really important to be aware of those things, because a simple throwaway comment from a member of staff, whoever that might be, can be incredibly damaging to someone who's on the cusp of an eating disorder, or who struggles with food.

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Ela Law: So, you know, we talked a lot about, you know, the systemic issue of the curriculum, of how things are taught, you know, how there are still teachers that weigh and measure children to.

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Ela Law: together a graph. I mean, it's absolutely shocking what still goes on, but there is so much, sort of narrative around, you know, the right or the wrong way of eating.

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Christine Chessman: 100%.

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Ela Law: that teachers, that you use in conversation, that teachers and staff and schools might not be aware of. And I think, absolutely, you're so right. I think they need to have a basic understanding of, you know, this could be damaging, this could be a real sort of trigger point for somebody who's struggling with food.

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Christine Chessman: And that it affects kids, certainly if you see… it can affect a child in that they lose an awful lot of weight, but it could also affect a child. They don't lose any weight, but they change, their behaviors change, they change, their personality changes, their habits change, their…

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Christine Chessman: how, you know, they… how they are, how they interact with other people changes. That's… because I think it's all too common that we just think of that one.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: typical, in inverted commas, anorexia, rather than atypical… I hate that, atypical anorexia. I think anorexia is anorexia.

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Ela Law: Anorexia, exactly.

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Christine Chessman: They're very strong, it's a mental illness, it's a very hard thing to overcome.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And it doesn't discriminate on size.

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Ela Law: No.

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Christine Chessman: You know, gender, it doesn't… race, it's not… so it is…

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Ela Law: But even that is something that people need to be aware of, because I think a lot of people just really don't see that someone in a larger body can also be anorexic. That's, like, for people, that's… doesn't make sense, but that is the case. You can be in a restrictive eating disorder if you're in a larger body, and then you probably quite likely get praised for not eating.

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Christine Chessman: This is what I'm saying! And it's like, you know, and if you don't eat much food, then it's like, oh, well done!

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: What are we… you know, we just…

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Ela Law: I know.

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Christine Chessman: But it is… and it is a very compare and despair society at the minute. When you're a teenager, it's… we know that we're impressionable.

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Christine Chessman: It's really… your peers are kind of very important to you at that stage of your life, and it's natural to compare. And if you… you know, it's about building up the kid's sense of self, but maybe just…

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Christine Chessman: bringing in a little bit of training for staff, so that they don't say something that's potentially going to stick in a kid's brain for years and years and years.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And through no malice, and through no…

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Ela Law: Of course not.

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Christine Chessman: You know, but it's… I certainly had comments, which I remember to this day.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Which just pushed me over that little… that little hill.

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Ela Law: That's the thing, and it could be, as you said, it could be a very, non-malicious comment from somebody, but it's so important that we're aware of, you know, what we're saying and what the potential interpretation of that is.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and, you know, it's obviously, there's very inconsistent care once a needing disorder is spotted, and it's, you know, every trust in every part of the country has a very different way of dealing with an eating disorder. There's no cohesive approach, and, you know, even NHS are not

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Christine Chessman: Most of the doctors that you will see are not trained specifically on eating disorders.

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Christine Chessman: That has been harmful, so we have…

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Christine Chessman: you know, my daughter has been harmed through that, and I say that with no exaggeration. It's been harmful.

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Ela Law: Things that have been said to her, how she's been treated.

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Christine Chessman: And it's… Yeah, and I think, I think it's just that basic understanding. It's not hard… to acquire?

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: And I, myself, did a little course, and they were called… it was ABC…

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Christine Chessman: care, what was it called? Anorexia bulimia care in those days had a CPD, in understanding eating disorders for fitness professionals. Took about half an hour, and it was excellent. And I think there is another one

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Christine Chessman: That is being run, but I'll… I'll look up the details.

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Ela Law: Yeah, maybe we can link to some resources in the show notes. I'm thinking of a few that might be helpful, so if anyone who's listening to this is like, oh, actually, I know someone that

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Ela Law: I'm slightly concerned about. Yes. Maybe we can put some resources in the show notes that will sort of point you in the right direction.

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Christine Chessman: And there is a lot of support out.

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Ela Law: There is.

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Christine Chessman: So we'll certainly put some of the, you know, the key places to go to for support for anybody who's worried about a family member or a friend. And I think Sophie from ED Informed is really trying to campaign fitness spaces to make it mandatory to have that training.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: For fitness professionals in fitness spaces, and that's something which will be incredibly helpful. So please go give her some support, because she's doing amazing work.

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Ela Law: Definitely.

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Christine Chessman: But it is… you know, I don't mean to have a diner of an episode, but I think it is…

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Christine Chessman: You know, we watched You're a Fat Friends. I'm always coming back to Aubrey Gordon, because I absolutely love her.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: But she had an eating disorder, and she just talked about how she could not get help for it. No, she was dismissed. Nobody took her seriously.

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Christine Chessman: And it's… That's the sad truth of it, isn't it?

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Ela Law: It really is, yeah, and I think this is… you know, with this, again, it makes it very hard to,

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Ela Law: It's hard enough to look for help.

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Ela Law: And if someone dismisses you over and over again, you're gonna give up.

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Ela Law: you're gonna succumb to the eating disorder unless you find some help and support from elsewhere, and that should not happen. It's not like, oh, it only affects, like.

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Ela Law: 10 people in the whole country. It's a massive thing. And as you said earlier, with the…

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Ela Law: This is something that I've been thinking about quite a lot in terms of eating disorders.

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Ela Law: is the comorbidity that you mentioned. It's that there's usually something else going on as well, be that neurodivergence, be that another mental health issue that you're struggling with. And I feel like a lot of it is anxiety-related. There's a lot of anxiety in people… Huge.

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Ela Law: Who, who struggle with food. And often, often an eating disorder is a way of trying to have control over something.

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Ela Law: And this anxiety that everyone is suffering from, that is the modern life that we are living in. That's the social media that we consume, that is the AI stuff that we're getting from everywhere. That is that bombardment of different, you know, noises from outside that makes us all confused and not… we don't know what's right or wrong anymore.

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Ela Law: Of course we're gonna be fucking anxious. I know. Of course we're gonna try and find a way of dampening down that anxiety. And for some people, that is then leading them to trying to control things with food.

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Ela Law: Or for some people, it manifests in other ways. But, you know, I'm not surprised that so many people are suffering with anxiety, but I'm also not surprised that that then translates into eating disorders quite easily.

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Christine Chessman: And it's also that perfectionist mindset, isn't it? And trying to do everything perfectly, and be…

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Christine Chessman: Perfect in every way.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: But it is, you know, there's a huge amount of kids that are affected around GCSE time, so that's… that's a real peak.

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Ela Law: Yeah, and admissions.

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Christine Chessman: And that is really scary to me, because schools, for no one… I mean, they're… I really have so much time for teachers who are working their asses off in a broken system.

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Christine Chessman: GCASEs are a mess.

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Christine Chessman: The pressure that is put on kids.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: is ridiculous. Yeah. And at that age, when they're really struggling anyway, trying to find out who they are, and going through puberty, and stealing with body image stuff, friends stuff, all of family stuff, I mean, it's…

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Christine Chessman: It's just…

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Ela Law: And, you know, some kids maybe just are okay and get through it, and they're fine, but…

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Christine Chessman: there's pressure. I don't know anybody that gets through it unscathed.

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Christine Chessman: And I think if you are somebody who really is anxious anyway.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: It can be the thing.

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Ela Law: Yeah. That pushes you.

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Christine Chessman: into that controlling sort of disorder, and it's… not everybody who restricts their food will get an eating disorder, that is absolutely the case. There's other factors, but it certainly can be a contributing factor.

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Ela Law: Definitely.

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Christine Chessman: So we need to just scrap GCerseys, or…

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Ela Law: I'm totally up for that. You know, I've probably mentioned it several times that in Germany we don't have anything like that. We don't have exams, in year 10, 11, there's just nothing. You have A-levels if you want to go that far, but other than that, you don't have anything like that. And…

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Ela Law: I always felt that that's the fairer way, the easier way, in terms of stress. And also, what do GCCs teach anybody? It's literally an exercise in retaining information, that as soon as you've written it down, it's gone, and it's completely…

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Ela Law: you know, unnecessary stuff that you don't need in your life. And it teaches you that, oh my god, I'm super stressed.

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Christine Chessman: Yes. And I have too many subjects, I'm…

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Ela Law: Not too much, I can't deal with it.

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Christine Chessman: are expecting me to… and why… you know, I just… I don't know. I could talk about them all day, because

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Christine Chessman: Weirdly, that's when I… Became anorexic, was that.

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Ela Law: Okay, so that started…

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Christine Chessman: GCSE, so in that fourth year was when it peaked for me, that fourth and fifth year. So when I was sitting my GCSE, I was very underweight, and then after that, I kind of got some treatment, but it definitely was horrendous. So it just… because I was somebody that was a people pleaser trying to…

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Christine Chessman: want to be… want to show my worth, because… through my… through my results, and, you know, maybe people will like me if I get a…

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Ela Law: Yeah, if I'm right, and I get good grades…

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Christine Chessman: And it was a way of coping with that. And it is the most twisted coping mechanism in the world, but it is a coping mechanism.

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Ela Law: It is a coping mechanism, and it works short-term, doesn't it?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: It also shows you that you're good at something, the eating disorder.

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Christine Chessman: Yep.

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Ela Law: force that, right? You're very good at not eating. Look at you, how good you are.

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Ela Law: You know…

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Christine Chessman: What is the answer, Ella? You know, the system is… I think it's basically what we're trying to say is…

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Christine Chessman: If there is a way you can support a charity, if you can go follow ED Informed, and follow BEAT, and follow, also Molly Forbes, bodyhappy.org, she is fantastic delivering programs on body image around schools.

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Christine Chessman: There's so many people who we will… we've already interviewed on this podcast.

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Christine Chessman: Can signpost you to help, and that have resources on their websites.

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Christine Chessman: But, if you're worried about somebody, what would you do, Ella?

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Ela Law: me personally, or what would I recommend someone do? I mean, as you said right at the beginning, trying to have a gentle conversation with that person, but coming at it from…

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Ela Law: from love and concern, rather than from judgment, and that's often easy… easier said than done, because the person that you're talking to will probably not take to it kindly, and will bristle at what you're suggesting. So, you know.

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Ela Law: I would say don't try and be a saviour, but maybe be there, and say, look, if you want to talk, I'm here. If you want to, I can go somewhere with you to get help.

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Ela Law: maybe share some resources, leave things lying around, that might be interesting in terms of resources. I don't know, it's a tricky one, because you don't want to…

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Ela Law: Push someone away.

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Ela Law: which is likely to happen initially when you address something that they're very well aware of, but they don't want you to know about, so…

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Christine Chessman: And can we just ask from a nutritionist's point of view, because I'm not a nutritionist.

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Christine Chessman: My hair is annoying me today, sorry. From a nutritionist's point of view, how many calories do we need, Ella?

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Ela Law: Oh, don't… oh, no, don't get me started on calories. That is really… that's different for everybody.

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Christine Chessman: Right, but do we need an excess of 1200?

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Ela Law: Ideally, yes, because that's less than a toddler eats, for sure. Yeah. I mean, you know, anyone recommending a 1200-calorie diet, it just is completely bonkers. That is just not…

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Christine Chessman: So you have a base level that your organs need to function.

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Ela Law: Absolutely.

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Christine Chessman: Even get out of bed.

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Ela Law: Absolutely, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And, you know, I think there is…

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Christine Chessman: there's a certain… especially if you're active, and I know that it's, you know, from maintenance phase, we know that it's not as simple as calories in, calories.

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Ela Law: No, this is the problem with.

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Christine Chessman: But you need… you need to eat proper food to fuel your body so it thrives and.

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Ela Law: Absolutely.

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Christine Chessman: exist and survive. And your brain needs 25% of all of your calories, and its preferred source of.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Fuel is carbs.

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Ela Law: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: You know what I mean? And it's… it's… we're always feeling guilty for eating.

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Ela Law: I think, but that's what's been drummed into us, isn't it? From, like, day one, it's like, do you really need to eat extra? Do you really need all of that? Eating is seen as something that's gluttonous and wrong, which is completely bonkers.

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Ela Law: Because, you know, without eating, we wouldn't live, we wouldn't be alive, and by restricting what we actually need and our bodies need, we're really ruining our bodies. You know, our brains are not working, our bones are getting brittle, our insides are not working the way they should, and it's just… Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I… I just… I had the… I had a friend who sort of said to me, oh, well, you know, the less calories you can eat, the better, especially as you get older.

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Ela Law: Oh my god.

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Christine Chessman: It's like…

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Christine Chessman: I don't understand what you're saying, and I think… I think there's a part of everybody maybe needs slightly different amounts, and you have different appetites, and you need more food to fuel what you're doing. Everybody needs different amounts, so it's really important that you don't look at somebody else, because I get hungry.

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Christine Chessman: every few hours, really. I can't go do fasting

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Christine Chessman: For 20 hours until midday. I'm not going to do that, because my tummy starts rumbling, and I just want food, and I feel thin, and I need to keep eating. Not everybody does.

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Christine Chessman: But… and that's where you've got to go, well, this is me. I'm not them.

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Ela Law: Absolutely.

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Christine Chessman: what do I need? How does my body function the best? When is it happy? When is it

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Christine Chessman: thriving? When is it full of energy?

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Christine Chessman: And that sounds very simplistic, doesn't it?

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Ela Law: Well, but Christine, it is really simple. It is that simple. But it's really difficult when you hear all of the noise from outside that tell you to have… do you have to do intermittent fasting, or you should skip meals, or eat as little as possible. I mean, that's just, you know, that's what we hear, but your body's telling a completely different story. Your body, and I would say.

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Ela Law: the majority of people, if they listen to their body, their bodies would also tell them the same story that your body's telling you, which is, could you please feed me regularly? Every 3-4 hours would be great, thank you very much. That's what every single body is very likely to tell the person.

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Ela Law: But we don't listen to it, and therefore we think…

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Ela Law: We are not hungry. We think our way out of it, because someone gave us a plan that says we can only eat between 12 and 6, or whatever. And that's the problem. We lose the ability to listen to what our body says, we lose the ability to trust our body, that it knows what we need.

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Ela Law: And, we listen too much to the external noise. And I think, you know, what your body's telling you is, as I said, probably what everybody

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Ela Law: Everybody's body… I'm getting lost in my words here. Everybody's body is saying…

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Ela Law: Because bodies work remarkably similarly. Yes, there are differences in how much, in terms of energy and calories we need, because we have different activity levels, our bodies work differently, they burn food in a different… Yes. …at a different rate. Some bodies might need more calories because they're repairing, they're doing something that we're not aware of. Some people who are thinking a lot might need more carbs, so that's our brain.

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Ela Law: work. There are differences, for sure.

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Ela Law: But in terms of… regular fueling.

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Ela Law: I don't think there's so much difference between people. I think that is an external thing that someone came up with, probably made a bit of money on, and said, oh, okay, some people just don't need to eat until 3 o'clock in the afternoon. That's bollock, sorry. I'm getting quite annoyed about these kind of things that are being said. That is not how our bodies work.

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Christine Chessman: And also, you know, a bit of reserve is okay. Do you know what I mean? I think it's so important that we feel strong in our bodies as well, and that we have that little bit of reserve in case we get ill, etc, etc. Absolutely.

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Ela Law: Absolutely.

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Christine Chessman: you know, I think… I don't know.

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Ela Law: Yeah, but I mean, there's data, there's evidence for… and I don't want to use the BMI, because that's another bit of bollocks.

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Ela Law: If you look at BMIs, and if you look at the, in inverted commas, overweight population, they are the most protected. They have the lowest mortality risk.

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Christine Chessman: And actually, if you look at the risk of mortality, it is the very low end of the scale. Very high end of the scale.

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Ela Law: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: And actually, the people that live the longest are the overweight, in averted commas category.

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Ela Law: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: And that is something which nobody knows, and I think that'.

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Ela Law: about…

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Christine Chessman: They will argue with you and say, that is not true, that is not true. And it 100% is true. And if you have an eating disorder as a teen, you are much more likely to get osteoporosis.

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Christine Chessman: osteopenia, you know, your bone health will suffer. This is also true if you get an eating disorder in your 20s, 30s, 40s, so it is so important that we think of our bodies in terms of our home, we take care of them, we feed them what they need, and we nurture them, and that is such an easy thing to say to people.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Don't have an eating disorder, but we certainly know that if you're in the throes of it.

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Ela Law: Definitely.

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Christine Chessman: You simply need support.

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Ela Law: You need support.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and it's not as simple as just listening to a podcast and feeling great.

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Ela Law: No, I know, that would be lovely, wouldn't it, if we could just wave our magic wand. But what you said, I think, is so important that, you know, if you're in the throes of an eating disorder, whatever we say is probably not going to touch the base, but it's the people who are listening to it, who haven't got an eating disorder, who can become aware of, you know, what to look out for, aware of how they are looking after their own bodies, so that they don't get into

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Ela Law: dangerous territory. You know.

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Ela Law: really look at what are your sources of information. Who do you listen to? What do you believe? Have you heard yourself say that sentence and repeat it back to you and see if that actually makes sense?

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Christine Chessman: Or are they trying to sell something off the back of that advice that they're giving you?

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Ela Law: Yeah, follow the money.

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Christine Chessman: Often, often they are.

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Christine Chessman: And, yeah, so, how are we gonna wrap up today?

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Ela Law: It's a hard topic. It is a hard topic, and obviously, if anyone is, concerned about anything, you can get in touch with us. We're here for you. We're gonna, as I said earlier, we're gonna put some stuff in the show notes if you need resources of any kind. And yeah, do get in touch if you have questions.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and be friggin' kind. You know, if you see somebody in a body that you don't approve of, keep your mouth shut. Yeah. You have no idea what people are dealing with.

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Ela Law: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: You have no idea. And you just, you know, say you can be complimentary in so many different ways.

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Christine Chessman: Let's just not talk about weight.

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Ela Law: Sorry, I really sound like I'm being preachy, and I am sorry. You're not being preachy at all, no, but the listeners are like, alright, Christine, get off! No, they're all right… they're all taking notes right now, writing that down.

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Christine Chessman: It's just something I feel, I think just the personal lived experience.

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Ela Law: Cool.

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Christine Chessman: so strongly about.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: On my own behalf, but also on behalf of my daughter, and all of her peers that are struggling.

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Christine Chessman: point, and…

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Ela Law: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: So, just, yeah, be kind to each other, and do look up some resources that are contained in the show notes. You're not alone, and your loved one or friend is not alone either. There's lots of support, you just have to kind of know.

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Ela Law: Exactly. And likewise, if you know of a really, really good organization or someone who supported you through something, do let us know, because we can always share that information on our channels.

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Christine Chessman: cracking. Have a really nice rest of your week, everybody, and we will be back, and I will be less preachy next time.

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Ela Law: Oh, please be preachy, I like that. Bye!

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Christine Chessman: Hello, everybody! Bye!