Why Are We Still So Obedient As Women?

Christine and I are angry - we re trying to work out why we are so easily led into obedience when it comes to body image and dieting. Watching people (in particular celebrities) shrink before our very eyes is NOT an invitation to do the same, rather, it should be a cause for concern - it shows that we are still way too focussed on appearances and unattainable 'beauty' standards. 

This misdirected focus keeps us under control - we haven't got time to make the world a better place if we are trying so hard to be thinner, less wrinkly, hunt for the latest fashion apparel or follow a mind-boggling supplement regime. 

Obediently following these 'trends' might make you feel like you 'fit in', but it takes you away from your authentic self, from taking up space in the world.

And thinking of people who struggle with disordered eating and eating disorders - how the hell can they recover in this narrative?

The rise of skinny-tok has overshadowed a lot of the fat acceptance and intuitive eating messages, but we are here to keep talking about it!

What can we do? Be aware of when things you see online make you feel uncomfortable or bad about yourself. Follow people who call out misinformation (here are some good ones to check out: @michaelulloapt
@drjoshuawolrich
@priya_tew
@prescription_strength_uk
@everything_endocrine ). 

And get angry with us!

(and for some comedic relief, check out @kylacobblercomedy)

Much love

xx

Transcript

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Christine Chessman: So, welcome to another episode of the Find Your Strong podcast.

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Christine Chessman: I'm tired today, but I have coffee, so I'm all good. How are you doing?

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Ela Law: I'm also tired, but for other reasons, because I've got a broken bone, and I think that's trying to heal, so I think I need that.

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Ela Law: Rest.

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Christine Chessman: How are you?

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Christine Chessman: Bullin' over your fate when you're scanned.

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Ela Law: I know, I should, shouldn't I? It's really stupid. Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I've broken lots of bones, so…

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Ela Law: So there's hope for me to get back to.

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Christine Chessman: I don't understand how nobody… people have just, like, not broken any bones. I don't understand how that.

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Ela Law: I know, it's odd. Before this, I've only ever broken toes.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, you'd never broken, like, a significant bone.

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Ela Law: No. No, I'm one of them.

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Christine Chessman: Wow, I see.

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Ela Law: Yeah, I've broken pretty much everything you could imagine. Oh, God. It's rough, it's just… I'm not very patient, so the whole process of healing and recovering is…

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Ela Law: Really trying me.

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Christine Chessman: Well, let me just go through my list. So, Littlefinger, which is fine.

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Christine Chessman: Pelvis, not so good.

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Ela Law: Well, figured.

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Christine Chessman: Cheekbone? Check… how do you break a cheekbone? I mean…

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Ela Law: That takes some skill.

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Christine Chessman: And arm, as well.

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Ela Law: Oh, God.

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Christine Chessman: Quite a lot of stuff.

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Ela Law: Quite a lot of broken bones.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, so… I see your wrist, and I raise you.

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Ela Law: Okay, you win.

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Christine Chessman: Well, you win at the minute, so let's just give you your victory today. But yeah, so today we were thinking, what are we going to talk about? And I keep coming back to this idea in my head of obedience.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: And most of us, when we hear that, think, ugh…

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Christine Chessman: And then I'm thinking, well, why then are we all trying to be obedient and fit a mold that is being prescribed to us by the patriarchy and capitalism and, you know, why are we all trying to look the same?

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Christine Chessman: edgeless… Barbie dolls.

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Christine Chessman: tiny, very specific, tiny, a very, you know, you've got to look exactly this particular way. Why?

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Ela Law: That's a million dollar question.

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Christine Chessman: not fighting against it and going, hello, I'm… I'm a strong woman, I will… why are we not owning what we are? Why are we all trying to be the same version of unique?

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Christine Chessman: You know what I mean? Why? Yeah. I suppose part of it is because we're being told that we're not good enough.

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Ela Law: The way we are. That we need to have this…

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Ela Law: this goal to achieve, to be thinner, to be prettier, to be younger, that doesn't come from inside, does it? That doesn't come from us. That's something that's coming from the outside, so someone is telling us that.

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Ela Law: And in order to feel valuable, we try and fit in with that line of thought and that narrative, I would imagine. That's part of the…

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Ela Law: I don't have the answer, but I'm just thinking aloud. So I think this, sort of, being obedient to the status quo and to what is being dictated to us has got a lot to do with the fact that we're being made vulnerable, we're being given… we're being dictated that we have a problem.

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Ela Law: And therefore, we need to solve that problem, which means that we have to lose weight, we have to look younger, we have to inject our faces with stuff so that we don't have wrinkles.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, but what are we fixing with that? What are we adding to our lives? Are we becoming happier?

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Ela Law: No, we're not.

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Christine Chessman: happier. We're not even fitting in, really. Who are we fitting in with?

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Ela Law: Nobody is happy. Nobody is happy with themselves.

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Christine Chessman: And everybody is just critical of themselves and others, and I don't understand who you're fitting in with by getting…

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Ela Law: Yeah. No, I hear you. Don't you feel like we are trying to fit in? I completely understand what you're saying, and I totally agree that we're not happier. I feel like, if anything, we are less happy now than we were.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, god, yeah.

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Ela Law: several decades or centuries ago, in one way or another. I just think the fitting in is to not…

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Ela Law: I don't know, it's too… it's a false kind of goal, isn't it? It's just something that we're being told we need to do, and we… I don't know, we're just falling in line, so that we don't…

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Christine Chessman: That's what we're doing! We're going, yep, I'm gonna do exactly what it takes, what you prescribe, to look a very specific way.

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Ela Law: Yeah. Are we scared of judgment from others? Are we scared of being…

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Ela Law: seen as less valuable, or we see… I don't know, what do you think?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, but that was always the way, you know, obviously you've got this tribal thing that people want to fit in, and you've got this… that's… that's always… that's generational, that's been here for many, many, many hundreds of years, but why… when there's this huge cultural trend towards

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Christine Chessman: Thinness, which has been here before.

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Ela Law: It's been here before, we all know it's not serving us. We… deep down, we know this. We know how many calories are required for your organs to function well, for your bones to grow well, for your muscles to be able to grow, and.

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Christine Chessman: function, and for your body to just be happy. We know this! We know this.

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Ela Law: But we're kind of going…

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Christine Chessman: No, no, we're just gonna do exactly what you're doing.

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Ela Law: Hmm. I don't know, I know it's not as simple as that.

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Christine Chessman: And it is… it is very much the environment that we're living in, and obviously some people are more susceptible.

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Christine Chessman: to, you know, for body image issues, some people are more susceptible than others, certainly to eating disorders, all of that. That's not just a…

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Christine Chessman: you know, society breeds these, society helps, but it doesn't breed them. But I don't…

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Christine Chessman: I don't know why there's not more people. Maybe it's just the algorithm, we're not seeing more people. Why is there not more Emma Thompsons that are like, why are we wasting our life's purpose by worrying about the size of our body? And we don't just want to be perfect now, we want to be…

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Christine Chessman: About 3 sizes below what we can actually be.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: We want to be, like, this ideal that is unattainable, which we're going to use a drug to get to.

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Christine Chessman: Doesn't matter how it actually impact us.

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Ela Law: You know, it's quite a serious thing.

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Christine Chessman: the stakes have upped. The stakes have risen. Like, we're not just talking about, oh, you know, eat a certain way and exercise. We're talking about taking a drug which is gonna, you know, affect our brain chemistry and stop us feeling hungry.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Stop us wanting food.

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Christine Chessman: Stop us enjoying… what the fuck is going on out there?

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Christine Chessman: Joe, I mean…

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Ela Law: If you put it like that, it's wild, isn't it? I don't know, I just… it just feels like every time…

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Ela Law: and I'm generalizing, but every time women get a little bit of an up and have a bit more power, there is something else that puts us back in our place. This isn't happening to male celebrities. They're not shrinking in front of our eyes, are they?

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Christine Chessman: Nope.

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Ela Law: There is definitely a trend towards this incredibly extreme thinness that is then hailed as, we all need to look like that.

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Ela Law: I mean, it keeps our brains…

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Ela Law: dumbed down and occupy it, doesn't it? Yeah. So we can't do anything else.

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Christine Chessman: Potent political sedative.

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Ela Law: It is…

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Ela Law: It is, it is. I mean, you can be really cynical about it, but I do feel like, you know, there is definitely… that is part of it.

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Christine Chessman: But also, yeah, exactly, all you're thinking about is how…

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Christine Chessman: you know, wake you feel, or you're tired you feel, or what… when you're gonna… what you're gonna eat, because you can only eat such a small amount, so you gotta get… so your whole day is just about…

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Christine Chessman: Your body, and obsessing about…

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Christine Chessman: How you look, or how you think you look to other people, because body image is not about how you actually look, it's how you.

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Ela Law: No. About how you perceive your appearance, and it's…

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Christine Chessman: You know, talking to Stephanie Michelle about this, and you've got the objectified body and the living body, we are all sitting in this objectified body.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: point that even when you get past a certain age where it used to be the fuck it generation, we're now, no, no, no, we still have to look like we're 20.

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Christine Chessman: And it's… do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law: I do know what you mean.

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Christine Chessman: Somebody says, oh, you look younger than you are, it's like the biggest compliment. Why should that be a compliment? Or you wouldn't know you had kids.

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Christine Chessman: Why do I want to look like I've never had children? Because I have…

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Ela Law: Because you've been told that that's what… that's the goal. I mean, we're being… we're being fed

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Ela Law: So, artificially created vulnerabilities around our,

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, we're being told that we have stuff to fix that we… that's not actually…

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Ela Law: Absolutely, absolutely. It's all generated. It's not… nothing… none of that comes from the inside, even if you feel like, oh, this is an internal issue. The internal issue was created by an external message. It's… none of this… if we were on an island somewhere, we've never had any contact with any of the outside world, we would not…

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Ela Law: worry about it. We might have certain, cultural, traditional, kind of.

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Ela Law: I don't know, ways of adorning ourselves, or dressing, or whatever, but I don't think there would be anywhere near as much importance placed on our appearance as there is now. I mean, you just… anything you look at, you… you are made to feel lacking.

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Ela Law: Everything that you… you open a social media post, you compare yourself. Oh, I haven't got that. I would really like that product. Oh, my skin isn't as good as that. Oh, I need that eyeshadow. Oh, I need to buy myself some mushroom gummies. Oh, I need that workout kit. Everything you look at is designed by very clever people to make you want.

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Ela Law: And one of the things that I think we are being made to want is that

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Ela Law: Very unachievable, very thin, ideal, like, as you said, like a little Barbie doll kind of…

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Ela Law: Yeah. Like, look, that sort of look.

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Ela Law: But it's not… it doesn't come from the inside, does it?

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Christine Chessman: That's… and that's… so I just, you know, about eating disorders, for example, are biopsychosocial, so they are part

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Christine Chessman: Bio… they're part, genetic.

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Christine Chessman: And just your own psyche. So not everybody who is affected by the outside environment will get an eating disorder, you know, it's a very specific kind of…

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Christine Chessman: You know, do you know what I mean? Some people are more susceptible than others, simply. So, that is from the inside.

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Ela Law: That's not what I'm talking about, though. That is different. I'm not talking about, a mental illness. You're talking about just…

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Christine Chessman: Bing.

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Ela Law: I'm talking about… we're talking about obedience, and someone with an eating disorder isn't obedient in the sense that we're talking about people, sort of, trying to achieve this goal of…

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Christine Chessman: Maybe not about an eating disorder, but it's disordered.

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Ela Law: Of course it is. Totally.

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Christine Chessman: using a GLP-1 when you are not in a, inverted commas, overweight body, so, you know, we don't subscribe to overweight, etc, you know, the BMI is bullshit, but it is the fact that if you are in a straight-sized body.

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Christine Chessman: not be being prescribed a GLP-1 if you do not… if you're not pre-diabetic or diabetic.

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Ela Law: somewhere.

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Christine Chessman: Simple as that.

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Christine Chessman: Because it doesn't… do you not agree, or is that… I know that there are instances where…

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Christine Chessman: they say with binge eating disorder, there's some research coming out, and I'm not privy to that, so I cannot comment on that, but there is no stopping point for it. Ozempic will not go, oh, you're fine now, you're a good weight for your height.

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Ela Law: We're gonna…

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Christine Chessman: To stop you losing weight, you will continue.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? It doesn't have, like, a cut-off point.

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Ela Law: No, no, no, I know, so what you're saying is that… that… that in and of itself is disordered, and I totally agree with you that we can't find that stopping point, and we continue to use it.

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Christine Chessman: It's disordered in any body that isn't…

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Christine Chessman: diabetic or pre-diabetic, or isn't… you know, if somebody's in a larger body, is also using a Zempic, they're not having enough calories.

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Christine Chessman: to survive. That is disordered, no?

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Ela Law: Don't… yeah, no, absolutely, not disagreeing with you.

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Christine Chessman: And if you are in a straight-sized body, you can use a Zempic to basically… you will then become very ill.

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Ela Law: So this is…

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Christine Chessman: This is what I'm saying, it's not just a…

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Christine Chessman: oh, and you're gonna look a certain way. You know, if you feed your body a very limited amount of calories for enough time, you can become incredibly ill.

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Ela Law: Of course, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: whether you're in a larger body, a medium-sized body, a straight-sized, whatever body you're in. So, you know, it just seems like nobody's talking about that.

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Ela Law: Well, I think some people are, but the majority of people are just, as you said, being obedient, and they're falling in line with…

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Ela Law: what we're being told we should be doing. And that definitely can lead to an eating disorder. It doesn't have to, and it doesn't in all people, because, as you said, it's not… there are some people who just have a predisposition to having an eating disorder.

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Ela Law: that gets triggered by all sorts of different things, you know, there's no one cause for it. But, you know, the whole idea of

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Ela Law: Us fitting into this box, and being that tiny, and shrinking, that in and of itself is disorder, doesn't it?

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Christine Chessman: Absolutely, and it's just, you know, whereas Fat Liberation Movement… I mean, obviously the Fat Liberation Movement is still there, but it is not…

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Ela Law: It's not as loud, though, is it?

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Christine Chessman: It's not as loud.

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Ela Law: No, it isn't.

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Christine Chessman: the algorithm is very much switching that off. Yeah. So, and all we're hearing about is, oh, but you can get thin if you want to. It's a choice now, you know, it's not a, you're, you know, everybody's different. It is, no, you can be all the same, we can all be the same.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: sort of, like, friggin' dystopian, crazy world that we're all little robotic, friggin', you know, just going through life, like, you know, can't really think for ourselves, we're all just the same. It just freaks me out.

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Ela Law: Yeah, it is freaky. Yeah, it is. And also, when you just mentioned, sort of, the fat liberation movement, a few people from that movement are also now losing weight, which makes the whole space less of a safe space for people.

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Christine Chessman: And there's no… there's no shame there, because everybody's body… you have autonomy, your agency, do what you want to do. It's…

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Ela Law: No, but it normalizes that, you know, even people who were very much at the forefront of the fat liberation movement are now using those drugs to lose weight.

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Ela Law: What is that saying?

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Ela Law: Yeah. Right? What's that saying to people?

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Christine Chessman: It's hard when you see people who are prominent in those communities suddenly losing enough, and actually saying, oh, I didn't really… I was wrong. This is the right way. That's where it's hard. It's not about people losing weight, because our bodies change. It's about them saying, oh, I was wrong when I thought I was happy there.

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Ela Law: You know, and that's where it's really impactful and not a good way.

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Christine Chessman: Because people suddenly go, oh, I can now just take that, and I can be like everybody else now.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Rather than thinking, maybe, uniquely, my body is happy here.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: you know, maybe my body set point is this, maybe this is what… you know what I mean? There's no talk about the intuitive eating, the set point that…

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: It's just… I don't know, it just seems…

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Christine Chessman: I'm just getting fed up with it.

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah, I'm with you, I'm in, yeah, same place. I think what you said about…

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Ela Law: you know, when people say, oh, I was wrong when I said I was happy in that larger body, I think that… that goes back to the point, doesn't it?

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Ela Law: you can be happy in a larger body, but we are being told that we can't. Yeah, and that that was always that far, that wasn't real. Exactly, and that in and of itself is part of being obedient, isn't it?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: they're now also being obedient. They're not fighting against that stigma. They're not fighting against the oppression. They are part of it now.

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Christine Chessman: But we, in straight-sized bodies, cannot judge that, because we don't know…

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Ela Law: We're not judging, but we're having a commentary on it, and we're commenting on what we are seeing, and I, for one, am seeing a lot less fat activism, a lot less intuitive eating content. There are some people that are quite prominent, that…

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Ela Law: are in my feed, that are, you know, fighting the good fight, if you want to call it that. But it's less.

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Ela Law: It feels more disjointed, it feels… almost…

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Ela Law: deflated. I feel like people are getting fed up and deflated, and feeling like…

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Ela Law: I'm banging my head against a brick wall here, and nothing's changing. These drugs are so, so powerful. The companies that sell those drugs are so powerful. We see people literally shrinking in front of our eyes, making it an attainable thing, not attainable, a, what's the word I'm looking for?

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Ela Law: An attractive goal.

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Christine Chessman: attractive, yeah.

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Ela Law: And…

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Christine Chessman: And P… GP…

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Ela Law: Weird.

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Christine Chessman: find this out, I reposted this the other way. GPs are being incentivized financially.

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Ela Law: Oops.

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Christine Chessman: to, you know, the more GLP-1s they prescribe, the more money they're gonna get.

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Christine Chessman: And then, at the same time, they've taken, like, $2 million away from eating disorder services, so they're…

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Christine Chessman: What that just makes me so mad.

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Christine Chessman: And I think, you know, you have…

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Christine Chessman: You know, I'm from an eating disorder background.

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Christine Chessman: My daughter has an eating disorder, it's… It makes me very angry.

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Christine Chessman: when…

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? Because it's very hard to recover in this culture. Why the hell can you recover?

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Ela Law: Totally. Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: when everywhere around you is telling you, oh, actually, the way you are right now in the throes of your eating disorder is spot on. That's what we want. That's what you should be. How can you recover? How can you…

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Ela Law: Yeah, recover into a body that's healthy, when actually everybody's telling you that's…

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Christine Chessman: Unattractive, or that's…

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Christine Chessman: Oh my god, but equally, Ella, I do get… where's the anger? You know, this… just being Milani is, like, we don't care club. Where is that? We need more of that. We need more of the women coming forward going.

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Christine Chessman: Fuck this, excuse my language, but let's just take up space and be… human and…

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Christine Chessman: be ourselves, you know?

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Christine Chessman: And I was…

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Ela Law: I feel like… it's almost like the… sorry, I'm interrupting. Do you want to finish that sent?

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Christine Chessman: Oh, no, so we've had on the… I think this was before you were my lovely, co-host, we had… I had Steph Godrow on the podcast.

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Ela Law: Oh, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And she's incredible, and I have honestly… and that has been her ethos from the beginning. She wants women to take up space in their bodies, and get strong, and feel strong in their bodies, and we need more of that!

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Ela Law: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna… gonna say. I think maybe this whole,

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Ela Law: this whole anger… I'm angry too, don't get me wrong.

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Ela Law: But maybe that is…

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Ela Law: is not steering us in the right direction. Yes, we need to be a bit angry, but maybe we just need to use that anger and try and refocus people's…

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Ela Law: people's… attitudes.

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Christine Chessman: But I'm getting angry at the patriarchy and capitalism and the advertising, and all of that. I think that's okay, the multi-billion dollar companies that are making money off our perceived insecurities.

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Ela Law: That's who I'm angry at. I think you need that anger. Yeah, you do need that anger to fuel you, but I feel like we need to give people an alternative.

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Ela Law: And I think.

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Ela Law: there's a bit of that going on in terms of… I feel in the fitness world at least, although there's a load of shit going down there as well, but I feel like there's more people,

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Ela Law: saying…

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Ela Law: Look, you want to be… you want to be strong. You want to look after your body for the future, rather than, you know, losing weight. So, I feel like the narrative there is… is getting a little bit more…

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Ela Law: refocused on other things. Why are you training? Are you training to be thin, or are you training to be strong and look after your body for when you get older? I feel like there is a little bit of a shift there, from what I see.

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Ela Law: But then…

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Christine Chessman: Will they?

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: you know, modalities like Pilates have never been so popular, because they promise the long, lean.

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Christine Chessman: The, you know, and the tiny wits, and they…

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Christine Chessman: There is a movement of women who are like, come on, let's take up space.

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Christine Chessman: But I don't know.

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Ela Law: I'm saying.

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Christine Chessman: And I'm saying that's still super small within the…

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Ela Law: Too small.

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Christine Chessman: Too small, you know, and I was talking about this with somebody else. In the UK, we've got the Gladiators show.

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Ela Law: Oh, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And I really do… I know everybody wears no clothes.

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Ela Law: But I really like it, because there's an awful lot of strong women in that show.

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Christine Chessman: You can lift people up and can throw things in that are physically strong.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? And it is… I love watching that show, because I'm not worried about, you know, how tiny everybody is, and how you're actually looking at what their bodies can do, and how…

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Maine?

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Ela Law: Hmm. Yeah, we need more of that. We need more…

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Ela Law: Yeah, a refocus, more different examples of what it can be like.

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Christine Chessman: And, I don't know, I don't know. There's a book… have you ever read, when the kids were little, did you ever read The Hueys?

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Ela Law: No.

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Christine Chessman: I think it was Oliver Jeffers, one of those amazing books, like, he wrote…

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Christine Chessman: Lost and Find, the little penguin one, and there's lots of different ones that he wrote. Beautiful.

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Ela Law: Okay.

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Christine Chessman: And this was about the Hueys, and there were, like, a whole load of people that were all the same, and they just walked around. And then one of them decided to wear a jumper.

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Christine Chessman: And he was different. And then all the other Hueys thought, I want to be different too! So they all wore jump…

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Ela Law: Yep.

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Christine Chessman: And then it ends with, and the day, you know, everything changed when somebody put a hat on, and then every… you know, it was that whole idea. They wanted to be different, too.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And it's like, we all want to be kind of…

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Christine Chessman: different in that way. We all wanna… do you know what I mean? And that's not…

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Christine Chessman: There's no individuality anymore.

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Ela Law: No, there isn't. But we're… I think we're scared of that, because that makes us stand out, and it's safer to…

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Ela Law: Be part of the crowd, isn't it?

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Christine Chessman: Is it?

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Ela Law: Yes, of course it is, evolutionary. If you're the one who's.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: out, you're gonna be prey.

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Ela Law: You're gonna be eaten by the tigers and lions and whatever.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, but you don't like being told what to do, do you?

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Ela Law: No, I don't.

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Christine Chessman: Why… so why… why do we want to be told what to do?

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Ela Law: Because then we don't have to think for ourselves, then we don't have to make decisions, we're just being told, we'll just follow. There's so much going on in life, so it's much easier if you at least, you know, have some structure from somebody else telling you what to do, and if the benefit of that is that you fit into, a patriarchal

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Ela Law: viewpoint than bonus, right? So I think…

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Ela Law: That's why we're… why we're all being little clones, and trying to…

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Christine Chessman: And it's not… there's no… there's not one part of us that's gone we're above this. I've… I've had an eating disorder for years, I've been also disordered eating, also obsessed with appearance, I have been all of those things. There is not any part of me that is separate from that.

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Christine Chessman: I am affected by it, and I'm sure you would say you are too.

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Ela Law: Of course, yeah. I think we all are. You can be… you can make as many stands, and…

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Ela Law: and be up against it as much as you want, but I think we're all affected by it, for sure.

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Christine Chessman: I listened to an interview with Kate Winslet, and I love her.

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Ela Law: She's great.

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Christine Chessman: And she was basically saying she wants to keep her face exactly as it is, to show other women what a normal face looks like.

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Christine Chessman: And in her industry, it's getting less and less common.

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Christine Chessman: And, you know, it's so funny, because as actresses, you need

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Christine Chessman: your facial expression. Of course you need your face to move, and be like… do you know, if you're playing a 60-year-old woman, you know what I mean? You need all of the…

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I don't know, so I… and she thinks that's her way of almost standing up for it, because it is…

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Christine Chessman: you know, modeling to other people, it's like…

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: this is what a normal face looks like, and I really applaud her for that, because it's not easy, and obviously she's stunningly beautiful, and that helps.

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Christine Chessman: You know what I mean? It just, you know what, me and my daughter sort of said that to me, yeah, well, Kate Winslet, it's okay for her to say that, because she's, like, gorgeous, but it's more the point that she's going, no, I'm not going to succumb to it.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I'm gonna be…

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Christine Chessman: You know, myself, so that I can help other people. And I think that's the take that I'm going with at the minute. I want to model for my daughters that

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Christine Chessman: you know, I've battled myself all my life, and actually now I'm not gonna succumb to… Then you must…

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Christine Chessman: use a Zambig, you must do all the fillers and the Botox, because I've done… I've done enough. I've wasted enough time.

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Christine Chessman: And I'm done with it. And I actually… I really am pissed off and fed up with it.

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Christine Chessman: And so… That's my take on it. What about you?

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Ela Law: No, I think that's… I mean, that's…

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Ela Law: I don't want to say that's all we can do, just be role models and kind of live authentically to our beliefs. I think that's a massive part, and that's harder than it sounds, I think. But I was going to ask you, actually, what else can we do, then, to…

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Ela Law: Stick a finger up at this obedience that we find ourselves in.

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Christine Chessman: I think we can…

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Ela Law: constantly, so social media is a place where you can share the actual statistics.

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Christine Chessman: And the actual, kind of, what's… Bear with me…

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Christine Chessman: Sorry. You can actually, sort of, the statistics, as in how many calories we need a day, that your brain needs carbs, your brain prefers carbs, they are the preferred source of fuel.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: We need a certain number of calories to…

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Christine Chessman: thrive for our organs to function, all of that. You can keep sharing the actual information. We can share about intuitive eating, which is about satisfaction, which we've lost completely, about that, you know, enjoyment of food, and that sharing of food together, and that celebration, and

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Christine Chessman: you know, I think we can model, we can share, we can, you know, talk to our clients, we can go to marches, we can… I don't know what else… what else do you think?

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Ela Law: But this is the problem, isn't it? I feel like that's all we can do, and for every one of us, there's 10 influencers telling us which way to stir our water with a wand so that the enzymes work. You know, you get all of this bullshit from people, and I feel like it's such an uphill battle all the time that.

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Christine Chessman: I know.

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Ela Law: there's so many people who tell you all sorts of nonsense, and there's way more of them than there is of us. I mean, I posted something, was it yesterday?

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Ela Law: about all of this, like, the nonsense that we're being fed, in particular on social media, and there is a few quite big accounts now that call out this bullshit, and I feel like we need to… we need to point people in that direction as well, because there's a lot of people who do the research, who are…

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Ela Law: people working in the field who don't take any of that nonsense, and they call it out, and they say, look, this is complete and utter nonsense, don't listen to it. I think we need way more

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Ela Law: people to jump on that bandwagon than the influencer's telling us what supplement we need to mix in our

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Ela Law: Latte, whatever.

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Christine Chessman: And I absolutely think that we need to defend, the kind of fatphobic nature of the rhetoric that is everywhere. You know, suddenly it's okay to be fatphobic. It seems like that, more than anything, is the…

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Ela Law: That's come back big time, hasn't it?

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Christine Chessman: I was really upset.

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Ela Law: Mayanna, you know, and this is…

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Christine Chessman: it's just, you know, in normal conversations out and about, that it's okay to kind of go… it's all of a sudden, you know, that… the O-word, the obesity epidemic, is on everybody's lips, and all these stats about how unhealthy it is to be, and they're completely unfounded.

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Christine Chessman: If you go back to the science, they're completely on Finder.

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Ela Law: Yes.

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Christine Chessman: It's almost like, oh no, it's okay now, because we have…

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: We have.

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Ela Law: We've got Ozempic, don't we? Yeah, exactly that, and I think that's exactly why it is now okay, because now we can do something about it.

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Ela Law: Which, also, we don't really know, and also, the amount of weight that people lose on those drugs isn't completely life-altering. It is generally a reasonably low percentage, and after a year, most people kind of stop taking it, because either it's too expensive, or it wreaves too much havoc with your body. So, it's not the magic wand, but people feel like it is, so therefore now they can

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Ela Law: say all of these horrible, negative things, and revamp the obesity epidemic, because they feel like, oh, well, we've got the solution to it, here we go.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and brands are no longer… the representation is no longer what it was.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: people of all size bodies, that is kind of almost fallen away, and I was like, excuse me?

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Ela Law: Oh, no.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, what's happening? But you were talking about how, you know, obviously this is a hugely serious, horrible…

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Christine Chessman: topic, but on a lighter note, Kyla Cobbler comedy, so I just spoke to you about this before we hit record. She's a comedian, but she also is very vocal about the fact that, what are we doing? Can we not just accept who we are and move on? And, she did this little post about Rihanna.

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Christine Chessman: Because apparently people were looking at Rihanna and saying, oh my goodness, she looks so old now, she looks different than she did when she was 20.

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Christine Chessman: I need that! And she was like, oh, did you see that by Rihanna? Amazing how she looks different now, 17 years later. It's amazing that she doesn't look like a child anymore. And it was this whole… and she's created an empire, but that doesn't matter, because she'd look like a child. You know, it's like this…

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Christine Chessman: What is wrong with us?

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Ela Law: I know.

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Christine Chessman: She's had 3 children. She's 17 years older than she was when you're comparing her to this photo.

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Ela Law: Would she still look like that?

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Christine Chessman: She's created an empire. She is the most amazing, incredible woman. You know, I love Rhianna. Why… why are we reducing her to the fact that she looks a little bit older than she did when she was 20?

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Ela Law: I know.

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Ela Law: I know. It's wild, isn't it?

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Christine Chessman: But, you know, just looking at her perspective was really funny, because it was just, like, taking it all down, but in a way that didn't make you feel just, like, desperate at the state of the world. Yeah, yeah. So if you need some light relief, that's my…

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Ela Law: Sounds good, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: But yes, but… and what would you… what is our parting word today? Because it is… I don't want to leave people feeling really negative and…

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Like, you know, everything's changing for the worse, because there are still, as you said, there's so many people trying to make a difference, and trying to show up

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Christine Chessman: You know, for body acceptance, body neutrality, you know, and there's an awful lot of great research out there that people… that we can direct people to in terms.

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Ela Law: So…

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Christine Chessman: you know, the negative impacts of Ozempic and

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Christine Chessman: And what it means for our bodies to actually eat nutritious food, and…

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Ela Law: a number.

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Christine Chessman: of calories that we, you know, our bodies need, but what would you say, what would your positive ending be, Ella?

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Ela Law: Well, I think exactly that, that there are resources out there that tell you a different story.

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Christine Chessman: Science. It's, it's sci… it's literally science. Yeah.

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Ela Law: And it's… but also that sort of call out the nonsense, and just, yeah, just give them a go. You know, follow them, look it up, don't take everything, as the truth that you see on social media.

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Ela Law: It's hard, I mean, I don't know, I don't have any wisdom here, because it is really hard not to get sucked into this, and not feel bad about yourself when you see all these tiny little people out there.

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Christine Chessman: I think if you are…

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Christine Chessman: following accounts that make you start second-guessing yourself, make you start thinking, oh, I should… you know, any… just…

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Christine Chessman: Unfollow, so really follow people that make you think good about yourselves. Follow people like you. We always used to say that, follow people in similar-sized bodies to you as well, and who look like you, not just people that look in this unattainable

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Christine Chessman: thin ideal, because that does seep into our psyches, and I think the more people we follow that make us feel good about ourselves.

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Christine Chessman: The better it will be for our own mental health.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And maybe the last time we can spend on lime.

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Ela Law: I think that's gonna be very helpful.

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Ela Law: To do that.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah. Like, get outside and meet actual people.

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah, it does make all the difference, and, you know, they're…

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Ela Law: they've been all funny about banning mobile phones for teenagers, and, you know, I think that's the way forward, just…

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Ela Law: cut down on time you spend online, because it's… it's not good. It's not good.

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Christine Chessman: bring back the friggin' Nokia brick.

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Christine Chessman: Bring back the little.

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Ela Law: That you couldn't do.

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Christine Chessman: anything with, but ring your friends.

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Ela Law: I played Snake with it, though, that was fun.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, but that's fun! It's…

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Ela Law: Bye!

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Christine Chessman: You can still ring your family if you get lost.

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Ela Law: Oh, that means you have to speak to people. Who does that?

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Christine Chessman: But you can text on them, you can send…

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Ela Law: I know, I know.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: I'm being sarcastic, but I… yeah, absolutely, I think… I don't know, I don't… I don't have… I don't have the answers. It's just, like, really… I feel like become aware when you're being too obedient, and who's… who's… who's saying, who's telling you?

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Christine Chessman: before you… so I've done it. I've bought a countless number of eye creams since I hit a certain age. I'm like, oh, this'll… this'll change everything. No, it won't, and it doesn't, and it does nothing. So, when you're about to add to cart.

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Christine Chessman: Take a pause, that's all I'm saying. So when you hit add to cart, take a pause and go…

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Christine Chessman: Why? Is it because…

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Christine Chessman: I really like this, it feels good on my skin, or it feels good, it just…

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Christine Chessman: Just take a second.

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Christine Chessman: say, why are you buying that? Are you buying that because you think it's gonna make you more acceptable to…

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Christine Chessman: The general public, you know, and maybe just question who's benefiting from it.

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Ela Law: Yeah, where does the money go? I think that's an important question to ask yourself, and it's actually something I posted about today, about, you know, maybe tot up what you spend over the last 6 months on

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Ela Law: rejuvenation on the right gym outfit. People who are listening to this, I'm using air quotes, by the way, on whatever supplement that's supposed to be helping you with God knows what.

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Ela Law: Totte up!

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Christine Chessman: 6 months.

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Ela Law: Where could you fly on holiday to with that money? What could you do with that money that, you know, that is a bit more meaningful?

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Christine Chessman: And, you know, there's lots of stuff you can do for your skin that's free, like water. Drink some water sometimes, it's quite nice to hydrate your skin, if you're worried about that.

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Christine Chessman: It's free, it's free. But it is, it is utterly true, and thank you for letting me rant on, because sometimes I get angry, Ella, and it needs to just come out. So, to our lovely listeners.

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Ela Law: Thank you for being.

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Christine Chessman: Thanks, the patient and listening to us. But we want you to be kind to yourselves above all.

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Christine Chessman: with us. If you have any more questions, or if this has stirred something in you, we always love to hear from you.

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Christine Chessman: And, yeah, until next time, we're gonna say…

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Ela Law: Bye!

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Christine Chessman: Yay!