What Are You Really Training For? Fitness BEYOND Shrinking Your Body.

Why do you move? 

Why do you exercise? 

There are plenty of reasons, but when we ask people if they'd move in the same way, if movement didn't change how their bodies looked, we often hear a resounding NO. 

You have full autonomy but.....

While we believe that everyone has full autonomy over their bodies, we also know how beneficial movement and exercise can be for us. We are very passionate about empowering people to feel stronger, fitter, more mobile, just better. And at our stage in life we fully admit that the prospect of fragility in older age makes us want to build muscles, bone mass and mobility now, so that we can stay active and healthy as we get older. 

Different Access Points to Movement....

There are different access points for different people based on age, physical capacity, time, financial resource - and whilst training for our old lady bodies (more on that in our next episode!) feels very appropriate for us now, if you are a younger listener you might resonate more with wanting to feel stronger, or improving your mental health.

Adding In, Not Taking Away....

Exercise has soooo many benefits, and we want you to find something you enjoy. And whilst one thing is better than no thing, we invite you to feel the difference if you add something new in. For example, if you love Yoga that's great, but how would it feel if you added some cardio or strength training in? Or if you are into high energy workouts, how would it feel to add in some gentle walks in nature?

Can You Reframe Your Why?

How would it be to reframe your WHY and instead of focussing on exercising solely for weight loss (not effective), toning (just a marketing term), body transformation (short-lived and unsustainable), we moved with the aim of getting stronger, getting empowered, feeling better, being more mobile, having fun?

We'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic, so please get in touch if you have any thoughts or questions!

Some links we'd love to share with you:

Elizabeth Davies, Training for My Old Lady Body : Elizabeth will be on the podcast next week!

Steph Gaudreau: Steph specialised in strength for Women 40+.

Tommy Brown, Celebrity Wellness Coach ‍♂️Goal‑Oriented Training for. Body • Mind • Spirit @fitness360plus

@christinehobson60: 70 year old Christine, redefines aging gracefully.

The Honest Channel : Journalist Clare Johnston, on Rebuilding Mum and Dad: My Parents' Strength Journey

Transcript

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Christine Chessman: Hello, how are you? We're back again, aren't you excited?

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Christine Chessman: We are talking about all things movement today, aren't we, Ella?

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Ela Law: We are, yes.

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Christine Chessman: And what specifically? I want to talk about why we move.

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Christine Chessman: And why…

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Christine Chessman: We are… why a lot of us move, or why a lot of gyms tell us we should move.

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Christine Chessman: Rather than why…

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, the benefits of moving that do not involve shrinking our bodies or weight loss, I think that's what we're going to talk about.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: But, yeah, where do you stand with it all, Ella?

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Ela Law: Whoa!

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Ela Law: We've moved.

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Christine Chessman: rattled about exercise before, but, I don't know, I'm… I'm feeling, because it's the summer coming up.

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Christine Chessman: Everybody wants… you were talking about you went to Palace class, and they talked about what.

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Ela Law: Yeah, it's just this sort of normalized commentary that you get, oh, you know, this is hard, but think about your bottom in a bikini at the end of the day, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm thinking about my bottom getting me up the stairs and getting me off the sofa when I'm 80. So that's my kind of mindset around why I… why I exercise now, is because I want to make sure that my muscles are strong, that my bones are strong.

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Ela Law: I'm seeing it with my parents.

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Ela Law: They are getting very frail, and they're not actually moving their body. I'm forever talking to my dad about, why don't you pick up some strength training? Oh, no, no, no, I go for walks. I'm like, yeah, but that's not going to support your back. That's not going to help you stay strong.

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Ela Law: it's great exercise, great cardio exercise, but… and it's… I feel like…

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Ela Law: I feel like the emphasis for probably younger people is all about aesthetic goals. If you do that, you get a six-pack. If you do that, you lose weight. If you do that, you, and I'm gonna use this, and I know you hate this word, tone your muscles, which is.

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Christine Chessman: Okay.

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Ela Law: nonsense. And for older people, it's almost like, oh no, I'm fine.

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Ela Law: But are you… are you fine? Are you able to walk up the stairs without getting out of puff? Are you able to pick your grandchildren up and swing them around in the garden? Are you able to walk to the shops? And it's that kind of thing, so my mindset has shifted a lot over the last couple of decades, in terms of

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Ela Law: I just want to be fit and healthy and move. I want to.

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Christine Chessman: I'm the question.

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Christine Chessman: And you know what, I listen to a podcast called Fuel Your Strength with Steph Godrell, who's.

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Ela Law: Oh, she's lovely.

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Christine Chessman: podcast, and she interviewed a journalist who basically did a whole YouTube channel about training mom and dad, and her parents were kind of in their 80s.

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Christine Chessman: And just becoming her mum was becoming immobile and not able to get off the floor, do all the things.

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Christine Chessman: So she built a gym in the garage, and they've started lifting barbells, and oh my goodness, the change.

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Ela Law: It's amazing.

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Christine Chessman: In their mobility, in their strength, in their confidence.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: is incredible. You should go check it out, I'll put the link in the show notes.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: It's just…

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Christine Chessman: it really lit a match in me, or it just… it was incredible. It was just to show you that you don't have to, sort of, even if you're alien, you're feeling like, oh, I can't move the way I used to.

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Ela Law: So yeah, that's.

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Christine Chessman: There's no point, it's too late, it's never, never too late.

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Ela Law: It absolutely isn't. Yeah, this is the one time where the algorithm is working out for me, because I started looking at those

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Ela Law: posts and those reels, and now I'm getting flooded with them. There's this, this… I can't remember them all, but again, I'm very happy to put them in the show notes. In Australia, they're like a physio team, and they work with, older people to just get them

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Ela Law: to balance, and to walk in a straight line, and not to feel like they can't get off the chair. Then there's this other account that, that shows this 98-year-old guy, doing, like, all sorts of amazing stuff, and it's given him a new lease of life. There's this lady who trained someone with osteoarthritis who wasn't able to walk, and now she's just without a

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Ela Law: walking aid, and she's just off, and I just think that is just so amazing, and I think we probably need to, like, reframe…

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Ela Law: What we do and why we do it a little bit, don't you think?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, but maybe that is, we are given that, you know, I'll be 50 in a few days, and you'll be 50 not far along after. Is that just because we're suddenly older now, Ella? We're tuning into this kind of stuff? I think it's really hard to sell this to 20-year-old…

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Christine Chessman: who are going to the gym, you know, he might be going through that, chasing that aesthetic, because in my 20s, that's what I was doing.

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Ela Law: Yep.

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Christine Chessman: So I think just having a lot of compassion and understanding for people who are chasing that aesthetic.

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Ela Law: Africa.

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Christine Chessman: that is…

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Christine Chessman: It's the air we breathe. I keep saying that, the sea we swim in, it's absolutely everywhere, isn't it? And it is that reframe came for me absolutely in my 30s and 40s, rather than…

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Christine Chessman: In my 20s, so I do think, you know, I keep talking to my kids, I'm like, you know, you've got to think about, you know, when I see them hunching over, I'm like, you've got to think about opening your shoulders so that

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Christine Chessman: And they don't care.

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Ela Law: Of course not.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, you know, they do want to feel a bit fitter, and they get that kind of thing, but the idea of preparing yourself for old age falls on deaf ears for my teenagers, and I can understand that, and maybe it is a little bit about finding the access point for people.

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Christine Chessman: So, as much as people in their 50s will resonate with what we're saying, because they're feeling it, they're feeling the aches and pains, and they're struggling to get down to the floor the way they used to, and…

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Christine Chessman: Tie their shoelaces or put on their ties.

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Ela Law: Do you know what?

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Christine Chessman: So they're going, I know what you mean, I better start strength training. And that's why people come to me, because they're like, they suddenly go, oh, that's aching a bit.

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Christine Chessman: too, and I'm feeling… they suddenly start to not feel quite as mobile as they used to, or…

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: So, do you know what I mean? I'm thinking, is it okay to have different access points?

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Ela Law: I think it's completely okay. It really is, and you're spot on. I think it is, whatever stage you find yourself in life, your goals and your aspirations change. That doesn't mean that younger people can't

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Ela Law: think of it as a longer-term thing, but yeah, I totally get that. I mean, my teenagers, when I talked to my daughter, I said, you just… you need to move more, because you're sitting an awful lot with your phone in your hand.

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Ela Law: She's like, well, why would I? I mean, talking to her about bone density and muscle mass is like, what now? It doesn't… it doesn't register, it's not important, and, you know, old age is just so far away. They're not even… and that makes sense, it's not relevant at that moment in time.

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Christine Chessman: You know, there's other ways in. I do find… so I've been doing a bit of research into, kind of, weightlifting as part of recovery from eating disorders. There's so much research on that at the minute, which is really exciting. And there's also, kind of, trauma-informed weightlifting, qualifications, and amazing stuff that's going on out there.

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Christine Chessman: Certain modalities can really help build confidence in people.

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Christine Chessman: And just help them feel a bit more resilient, or more able to cope with the stresses of life. So that's a different angle completely, you know, the movement for mental health thing can actually be really powerful. Obviously, it's not a replacement for therapy, never would be, but it can really help you

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Christine Chessman: Feel… it's that sort of self-efficacy, and that…

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Christine Chessman: confidence to feel strong in your body, and, like, you can do hard things, and you can overcome things, you can push heavy weights, you can do… and I think that can be valuable for a person maybe at a different stage of life that is struggling.

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Ela Law: Yeah, 100%. I think… I think you're right with the access points. I think we need to have…

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Ela Law: different access points for different people, but it's not all just about age, is it? I think there are some younger people who… who probably will

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Ela Law: find the idea of functionality of their body quite an interesting angle, because maybe their bodies aren't working the way. You know, I've worked with a lot of younger people who…

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Ela Law: I wouldn't say they were immobile, but they had so many issues with their bodies, and partly due to inactivity, or partly… it was, like, one of those Catch-22 things.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: you're aching, you're not doing anything, you're not doing anything, you're aching more, that kind of thing. So I think… I think that can be an access point for all ages, but like you said, in terms of mental health, again, that could be for all ages.

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Christine Chessman: It's all ages.

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Ela Law: Right?

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Christine Chessman: I was gonna say, that's across the board, and at any point, you can kind of use movement in a really positive way.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And it's just, yeah, it is just trying to get people to reframe it and ask themselves why they're moving, or if, you know, that question that I often ask on Instagram, it's like, if it had zero impact on your appearance, would you still move in the same way? And I think that's a really valuable question.

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Christine Chessman: Because movements… the benefits of move… of movements are like this.

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Christine Chessman: And these are apart from weight loss, do you know what I mean? Completely, if you put weight loss over there.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Benefits of movement are crazy, there's so many, and we're kind of meant as humans to move.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And that is no shame for people that do not move, and there's no value, there's no morality in movement.

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Christine Chessman: But I think it just… certain things will be easier.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: If you can move in a way that works… that feels good for you. That's all I would say.

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Ela Law: Yeah, I suppose every… it's everyone's personal…

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Ela Law: decision whether they want to move or not. What we're saying

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Ela Law: is that, as you said, it'll make a certain amount of stuff in life easier if you have that functionality, if you have that mobility, if you have that ability to…

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Ela Law: To do things, for sure.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, but tell me about this, the misinformation out there is also…

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Christine Chessman: You know, every gym that you go into, it's like, you know, do this for your long, lean muscles.

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Ela Law: Wasn't talk?

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Christine Chessman: about toning, and, you know, pilates for strength training. I've got an amazing client, Niamh Daly, who wrote a book on yoga for menopause.

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Christine Chessman: And for bone health, but still does not believe that yoga is the answer, the full answer for… for menopause. As in, she believes that you need to also do strength training.

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Christine Chessman: bones, and for your muscle mass, and other modalities, whereas.

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Ela Law: We're sick.

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Christine Chessman: old yoga. Do yoga, do Pilates, and that's enough.

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Christine Chessman: And it's…

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Christine Chessman: And again, it's completely your choice whether you want to engage in any of this that we're talking about, but I think… I hate when people are getting the wool pulled over their eyes. I hate it so much.

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah, whatever sells, right? And I think this… I think… I think we've… we've come… we've got a lot more data now, and a lot more research on…

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Ela Law: healthy aging, if I want to call that, in terms of, you know, that it is important to do, weight-bearing exercise for your bones. Maybe we didn't know that, because for years, for decades, it was all about cardio, and jumping up and down, and doing that kind of stuff. And now we know that jumping, yes, it's great, but you also need to do something to strengthen your bones and your muscles, so I think

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Ela Law: while we are still learning and adapting, it's definitely worth kind of looking at all different angles, and not just thinking yoga is the one thing and that's all I need to do, but, you know, you're not…

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Ela Law: You're not, you know, you're not training everything, you haven't got the variety, it's just a one thing, isn't it? And that we're being sold.

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Ela Law: is probably one of the most expensive activities we can do. If you go to a single yoga lesson, and you buy the kit, and you buy the mat, and you buy the Ayurvedic teas that go with it, you know, it's a lifestyle that's being sold, isn't it? With yoga, often.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, same with Pelosi.

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Ela Law: Pilates as well, exactly.

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Christine Chessman: And there's a certain look that almost is synonymous with both of those, which is…

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: You know, and that's why maybe I quite like the weightlifting, the sort of the posts that are coming out by women weightlifting.

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Christine Chessman: weightlifting, it's just it seems to be slightly different in terms of bodies. So we have a more diverse body, so there's more representation. That's the impression I get. Maybe it's because I live in a bubble where I only follow

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Christine Chessman: accounts that, you know, I want to follow, so I don't get all of the toxic fitness culture stuff, but

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Christine Chessman: I don't know, I find it taking up space, that if you're gonna lift weights, and especially heavy weights.

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Christine Chessman: you kind of have to say, well, I'm, like, building muscle.

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Christine Chessman: And that might be heavier than… that, you know, I might gain weight because of the muscle mass.

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Ela Law: I know.

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Christine Chessman: Or muscle mass, and it is…

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Christine Chessman: Kind of talking to yourself and doing the work to be okay and acceptant of…

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Christine Chessman: A body that might change.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: In a way that doesn't tally with skinny talk.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And that's really hard. That's really hard.

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah, it very… it really is. I mean, that's one of the intuitive eating principles, isn't it? Is, like, movement, feel the difference. It's not about look the difference, it's about feeling it, and understanding that feeling stronger is…

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Ela Law: Is… is valuable, as opposed to… Trying to shrink your body.

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Ela Law: But that's so hard, because that's not what we're being told everywhere else around us, right?

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Christine Chessman: But then, if you…

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Christine Chessman: go by how you feel. So this is definitely something that my whole… my whole business is about, basically, helping to reframe movement.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Rather than looking at how you want to look, it's like, how do you want to feel? How do you want to feel? Do you want to feel energized? Do you want to feel more mobile? Do you want to feel… do you know what I mean? It's, like, powerful. Do you want to feel strong? Do you want to feel this… it's…

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Christine Chessman: People don't really ask them, I'm generalizing hugely, but generally, clients that come to me don't think about how they want to feel.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: They don't even think they can ask themselves that.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: Because they should be exercising more, they should be eating less, they should be looking different, they shouldn't have the meno bellies in inverted commas.

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Ela Law: issued.

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Christine Chessman: They should, they should, they should. They… you know what, they're not… their bodies need to change, so they don't actually sit back and go, maybe my body isn't the problem. How would I actually like to feel when I'm moving?

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Christine Chessman: And it is just giving yourself permission to ask that question, or to…

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Allow yourself to feel good when you move.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law: Yeah, no, 100%. I think…

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Ela Law: The problem with that is exactly what you just said. It's the shoulds. I mean, we're being told you should do that, and with, you know, kind of…

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Ela Law: it doesn't go against what I just said a minute ago, but there's a lot of shoulds. You should be doing this kind of exercise, you should be doing that kind of exercise, you should be eating that, but you shouldn't be eating that. It's just all about the shoulds, and we're being told what to do. So, you know, whilst I completely… I'm a massive fan of weight-bearing exercise and weightlifting and that kind of thing, you don't have to take it to extremes. You don't have to do it at all if that's not

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Ela Law: what you want to do. If you want to dance, dance. If you want to do yoga, do yoga. Movement is better than no movement, for sure. It's just a case of, while we're learning about what kind of movement does what to our bodies, I think, you know, keeping an open mind about what those different things can do to our well-being, and to your point, you know, feeling.

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Ela Law: How do you feel? Some people don't feel… so I…

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Christine Chessman: But I disagree with you then, because if you think about intuitive eating.

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Christine Chessman: It's exactly that. You can eat what you want to eat. You can just… you can tune into your body and have what you want, but at some point, we talk about gentle nutrition.

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Christine Chessman: So, it's the same with movement. At some point, we go, what do we need?

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Christine Chessman: to help us do the things we love, to do the things we love, we actually do need to look at joint health and muscle mass and bone density, that's… Sure. It's a complicated one. There's nuance here, because I'm with you on the shoulds.

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Christine Chessman: And you can live the rest of your life and not move, that is entirely up to you, there's no moral value to move.

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Christine Chessman: So, wherever I cannot say that enough. But if you do move, I think that just move in any way you want is doing you a disservice.

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Christine Chessman: I think those posts are fantastic, because most people are doing things punishing themselves with movement.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: Definitely.

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Christine Chessman: I do think if you want to keep doing things you love, you've got to tend to the joints.

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Ela Law: But then…

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Christine Chessman: Nice.

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Ela Law: Yeah, I, I, I can't…

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Christine Chessman: You say, let's dance, but you won't be able to keep dancing unless you're, you know, an absolute aberration.

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Christine Chessman: The miracle of…

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: It is exciting.

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Ela Law: Exactly the same with food.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: It is exactly the same, because, you know, we don't want the shoulds, and you have complete autonomy to eat whatever you want, and if that is something that, you know.

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Ela Law: makes you not feel great, you still.

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Ela Law: that option. And it's the same with movement. If you enjoy something, you don't want to do anything else, you have that autonomy to do that.

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Ela Law: It's… is that feeling the difference. You will not feel…

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Ela Law: well if all you eat is cream cakes. And there's no moral judgment on cream cakes, but you will not feel great. And I can promise you that, just like you can promise somebody that you will not feel great in your body, in your muscles, in your whatever, if you just stick to one particular exercise.

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Christine Chessman: If you just run, you're gonna get injured, and…

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: At some point. Again, 80% of runners, incur injuries, which is the highest of any sport, so it's just a good example to…

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah, I've got my husband's ex-work colleague, he was an ultramarathon runner, he had a hip replacement in his 30s, because of the running.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, it's.

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Ela Law: You know, there is certain things that… and I don't want to use the should, but it's about the…

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Ela Law: what you said, how does it feel? How does it feel if you just eat cream cakes? How does it feel if you just run? Is there something else that you can do that you can add in? And this is the same as I say to people that work with me on their relationship.

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Christine Chessman: It's food in.

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Ela Law: What can you add in? I don't want you to stop eating cream cakes, far from it. Love it.

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Christine Chessman: Go for it, knock yourself out.

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Ela Law: out. But what could you add in so that you can feel better? And I think it's the same with exercise, isn't it? What can you add in…

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Christine Chessman: And also knowing that there is… strength does not mean you have to go lift heavy barbells to get benefits. There's so many different ways into strength.

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Ela Law: Absolutely.

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Christine Chessman: You know what I mean? And it is different for everybody, and there is a point to get into that for everybody.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: So, it doesn't mean you've got to be doing an Olympic, weightlifting, jerking barbells. It is… I hate barbells, and…

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Christine Chessman: I understand lifting super heavy is supposed to be the most efficient, but actually the research is changing at the minute, it's all over the place, so I'm… look, it basically means if you're challenging your muscle, whether it's through volume, whether it's through intensity, you're challenging your muscle, and it is more about that than it is about…

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Christine Chessman: Having to do the massive loads.

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Christine Chessman: But it's more about… it's undeniable that it is beneficial.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: And I think that's where I always struggle, because I don't want people to feel the should, but I also really want them to be able to move in a way that feels good for their bodies. So it is that… isn't it? It is that kind of…

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, nuance, isn't it?

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Ela Law: Yeah, definitely nuanced. And when you said about the very heavy lifting, that seems to be quite fashionable at the moment. I just…

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Ela Law: I want people to know that that is not what you have to go for, and I know that I won't be going for that. Yes, it's impressive if someone can deadlift 100 kilos. Brilliant, good for you. I don't think that is my goal. I would be quite, you know, quite happy with a lot less, but still…

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Ela Law: Building that strength and keeping that strength.

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Ela Law: But, you know, again, it's each to their own, but it's not something that only because you see a lot of TikTokers, you know, lift heavy, or carry sandbags around a yard, doesn't mean that that's what you have to do. You can do it on a very different level, and get really good things.

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Christine Chessman: And you can… your way in, I think… I mean, I quite like a sandbag, and we all know I love kettlebells, and I do lift fairly heavy weights, but…

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Christine Chessman: That modality works for me, because I'm ADHD, I find kettlebells interesting, they're fascinating, you can do snatches with them, there's sport, you can juggle, you can… there's lots of things you can… Juggle? What? Yes, you can. There's… look it up, it's incredible.

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Christine Chessman: If you look up… so, somebody I recently had, a session with, who I'd love to get on the podcast, Tiffany Longcourt, at Tiffness Fitness. She does juggling, and it is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. Not in her living room, right outside in the grass, in a park, in a feed, do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law: With steel-capped shoes.

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Christine Chessman: Yes? Yes?

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Ela Law: I was gonna say, that sounds…

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Christine Chessman: But there is competition.

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Ela Law: So…

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Christine Chessman: There are competitions, and they're incredible.

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Ela Law: Oh my god!

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Christine Chessman: Have to send you this, I'll put some stuff in the show notes.

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Ela Law: Please do. I'd like to see that.

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Christine Chessman: I think it's about finding what works for you.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And challenging… so when we say the progressive overload, it is individual.

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Christine Chessman: And it is about challenging your muscles, so you live in your body, and you… you can feel that, and you can determine, kind of, if you are challenging your muscle. And yeah, the research is ongoing at the minute, and it seems to suggest that you do not have to lift the super heavy to get really good benefits from strength training.

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Ela Law: So explain the progressive overload to me and anyone who might not be familiar with that.

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Christine Chessman: Well, if you can lift 2K, and you continue just to lift 2K for the rest of your life, you're not gonna build muscle, you'll maintain muscle.

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Christine Chessman: Unless you do 2 reps one week, and then you do 3 reps, then you do 4 reps, then you do 5 reps. But the territory you're getting into there is, you'll end up having to do 100 reps to…

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Christine Chessman: To that point, I'd suggest, why don't we go heavier? Okay. We're kind of building that muscle.

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Ela Law: Okay.

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Christine Chessman: And as we hit 30, we start declining in muscle mass, so it's actually… people are worrying about building these huge muscles without cause, because it's really hard to build muscle, so… and because we're losing muscle, we're basically trying to maintain it.

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Christine Chessman: So you're trying to build muscle back, and then if you want, if you can, you can build a bit more.

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Christine Chessman: But mainly, we're trying to counteract the decline in muscle mass.

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Ela Law: And does that mean that, in terms of the progressive overload, that at some stage.

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Ela Law: you will be… given that you're losing muscle mass, will that mean that you're getting weaker, and therefore you're probably hovering around the same weight that you're lifting, or…

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Christine Chessman: Say that again.

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Ela Law: So, if you're losing muscle mass, and you're just sort of maintaining it with the same weight, and the muscle mass still goes down because you're not progressively overloading what you're lifting, will that mean that

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Ela Law: That muscle is gonna be trained with the same weight, or do you still need to add the weight.

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Christine Chessman: It is…

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Ela Law: rebuild it.

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Christine Chessman: I mean, that's a good question, and I would be lying if I could tell you the answer to that, but the main thing is challenging your muscle.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: So if you do 2 reps.

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Christine Chessman: for 6 weeks with the same weight, your muscle's gonna go, this is really easy, and it won't fame the challenge. So what you want is for that muscle to feed the challenge.

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Ela Law: Okay, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: So, if you're doing the same weight every week.

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Christine Chessman: It's not gonna be challenging the muscle, and that's how we adapt, that's how adaptations happen.

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Ela Law: It's because you.

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Christine Chessman: muscle is challenged, and then mini tears, you recover, and your brain goes… sends signals to the muscle going, you need to get bigger, because we're lifting heavier weights, so you need to be bigger to cope with that. Or we're doing more reps, or we're…

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Christine Chessman: Doing more, so it is… it's very individual, but it's… if you can work with a trainer.

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Christine Chessman: Very good. If you can get a really decent plan, it's great.

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Christine Chessman: don't have, the finances for that, I would just say…

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Christine Chessman: challenge your muscle as often as you can when you're lifting weights. You know, take it step by step. Go to about an 8 out of 10.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah, definitely. So go to your range.

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Christine Chessman: Exactly, and the reason that heavier weights can be better for some reasons is that we…

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Christine Chessman: You don't have to do as many reps, which means the wear and tear on the joint isn't as much.

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Ela Law: Okay. Yeah, that makes complete sense. If you do, like, 100 reps with something that's too light, really, for you, and you do 10 with something that's heavier, you're not…

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Ela Law: Putting too much pressure on the joint, but you're just using the muscle more, right?

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Christine Chessman: Exactly, exactly that. So it is… that's just, you know, I don't… again, there's no moral value attached to that.

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Christine Chessman: But I definitely would say look into it, because you never know. And a lot of people that have come to me, because they just… they have heard, we need to build strength, we're over 40.

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Christine Chessman: End up loving it, and feeling just strong, and resilient, and kind of…

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: they can do things that are hard that they didn't think they could do, and that's sort of… that's been the biggest shift that I've seen in people, that they always thought they couldn't do things, and all of… and most people that come to me are so much stronger than they think. So much stronger.

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Ela Law: That's an interesting one, really, isn't it? Because I think there's so many people who think, oh, that's just not for me, weights, oh, I've never done that. And, you know, I was talking about my parents earlier, and I think it's their… it's their mindset. Oh, wait, wait? No, that's not for me, that's not something I do.

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Ela Law: Why the hell not, right? Why not try and see what it's like to lift something? And when you said about the, kind of, that feeling of empowerment, when you can actually lift some heavy shit, I think…

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: I totally get that, and I… I also find that with other things that I do, for example, cold water swimming, that's, for me, it's not a sport, it's not massively exercising, because I just go in, swim a lap, and go out.

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Ela Law: But someone asked me, why… why do you… why do you do that? Why would you do that? And I said, it's given me this…

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Ela Law: I can do things that are tough.

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Ela Law: kind of attitude, and that sometimes is really helpful in other areas of life. It's not easy to go into 4 degrees water in the middle of winter when it's dark.

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Christine Chessman: No.

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Ela Law: It's not easy, and it gives you that slight sort of mental…

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Ela Law: Oh, I can do hard things. Yeah. Quoting Glenn and Doyle here. But yeah, do you know what I mean? And I think when it… I think it's a similar kind of thing with weightlifting. When you lift something, then you think, that looks really heavy, and you lift it, like, oh, I just did that.

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Christine Chessman: And it's so funny you said that. I felt the same when I used to swim, do the cold water swimming in winter. You come out going, I could do anything.

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Ela Law: Yes.

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Christine Chessman: I am invincible.

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Ela Law: Yes.

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Christine Chessman: I just went in the freezing cold water, and it gives you that little kind of, wow, look at me. And it is sad, there's nothing wrong with feeling like that. God, we all need a bit of that, don't we?

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Ela Law: Oh, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I think that's why I like the heavyweights. But that to say, you know, I'm not always consistent, and that's, you know, it's something that I would preach to you, is that…

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Christine Chessman: You have to go with your energy on any given day in terms of…

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Christine Chessman: what you do. So I'll have certain times that I'm gonna show up and work out, but some days I don't want to lift weights, so I don't.

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Christine Chessman: And it's, you know, I'll maybe do something gentle on the floor, and…

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: You know, you don't… you can find a routine that works for you, or, you know, a basic structure with lots of flexibility that works for you, and can somehow fit into your life.

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Christine Chessman: It doesn't have to be, go big or go home.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: You know what I mean?

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Ela Law: That's not what we're being sold when we buy into programs. We have to stick to the plan. We have to…

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, but this is the thing, we all go hard at it, hard at it, hard at it for 6 weeks, and then we're burnt out.

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Christine Chessman: And do nothing for… Yeah. And it is… it's much better to do something regularly.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: do less, more regularly. Yeah. Do it all at once, and then not… Yeah. You know what I mean?

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Ela Law: But also, if you're buying into a program that asks you to train, say, 3 or 4 times a week, you feel like you're not doing it right if you skip 2 days because you're not feeling it, or you're doing something gentle, and I think we really need to… we're not going to step backwards.

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Ela Law: We are just having… listening to our body, and we're having a rest when we need it.

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Christine Chessman: And if you have a good coach, they should work with you, and with your energy levels, and with.

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Ela Law: And…

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Christine Chessman: capacity, with your capacity, because we've all got shit going on, Ella, and we don't always have that capacity to do 4 hard workouts a week.

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Ela Law: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: And it is… that's not a failing on our part.

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Ela Law: No.

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Christine Chessman: simply life getting in the way, and I think you've got to find a coach that's compassionate enough to go, right, what can you realistically fit into your life weekly? Yeah. Maybe one session? Great. If you can do two one week, brilliant. If you can't, let's stick to one.

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Ela Law: It's fine.

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Christine Chessman: That's what I always say to clients coming in. They're like, oh, should I do four sessions a week? And I'm like, let's do one.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: How do we get on.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And if after, you know, 5 or 6 weeks, you find, oh, yeah, I can absolutely fit that into my life, then we'll think about adding another one, but…

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Christine Chessman: I think there's just too much emphasis on, I've got to do 4 or 5 sessions a week, otherwise it doesn't…

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Ela Law: It doesn't…

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Christine Chessman: And it's absolutely not true. And I've seen people once a week for small group kettlebell training that only do it with me, don't do anything else in terms of strength, and they have built strength.

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Ela Law: There you go.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? I've seen huge…

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Ela Law: Huge.

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Christine Chessman: Fair enough, if they'd done it several times a week, that might have been quicker progress, but they make progress nonetheless.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Ela Law: I think that's really important for people to hear and understand that you can do once a week, you will make progress. Yes, it might be slower than if you do four times a week, but also, you're doing it in a sustainable way, because if you're hitting the gym or whatever four times a week, that's not sustainable for most people. That's not… you know, you're gonna get… you're gonna get curveballs thrown, work, family, whatever, life happens.

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Christine Chessman: And then you'll feel like crap.

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Ela Law: Exactly that, exactly that. You feel like you're failing at it, and I think anyone who's selling you something that insists on you doing a certain number, or you're not doing it, right, you might want to see the red flag and run a mile, and find someone, as you said, someone a bit more compassionate who works with you, rather than

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Ela Law: Dictates and puts lots of shoulds on you.

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Christine Chessman: And what I wanted to ask you, because I know that you're doing, kind of, somatic experiencing, aren't you? You're doing… are you doing a course in it, Ella?

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Ela Law: finish the course, yeah. Well, it's not somatic, it's not the, like, the full-blown 3-year somatic experience, but yeah, it's a trauma integration.

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Christine Chessman: No, I did.

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Ela Law: What's a matter?

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Christine Chessman: In terms of when we get these feelings, so as summer approaches, we're in classes and they're talking about, you know, it can be quite triggering or upsetting, or it can set off.

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Ela Law: Goodbye.

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Christine Chessman: a body image disruption if you're in a class, and they start saying, let's work towards those bikini bodies, and that's.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: And you can start that self-comparison, you can start looking in mirrors and judging yourself, and what happens if you feel that panic and that sudden… how do you deal with that in the moment? Because that's something that I'm finding with myself even, you know, as summer approaches, and…

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Christine Chessman: you suddenly go, hold on, and you've got to take a step back, but how would you talk somebody down if they're having that, but I need to change, or I need to work out more, I need to eat less, I need to get into that bikini body? What… how would you start with somebody?

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Ela Law: Oh, I mean, it really depends on the person and where they're at. I think in the moment, it's always easier said than done. I think a lot of it is in the prep work and in the regular, kind of, working on your nervous system responses, and building that window of tolerance over time, so that when you are in a situation that's triggering.

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Ela Law: You can fall back on…

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: strategies, and you can fall back on that sort of increased resiliency. So, I would say, in the moment.

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Ela Law: Acknowledge that that felt triggering, that felt hard, and allow that to go through, and then maybe work on building that resilience by…

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Ela Law: You can… you can… in a session, for example, you could kind of conjure up that feeling, or you could use memory, that brings back a sort of a lighter version of that feeling, and work with that, and learning to sit with that, because that feeling isn't going to kill you, that feeling isn't going to do anything to you.

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Ela Law: it just feels overwhelming, because that's what your body has learned as a response. Like, this is fight or flight, this is a.

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Ela Law: threat to my life. This triggering comment that whoever made, this is a threat to me. Your body just completely overreacts to whatever was said. So for me, I would say it's about learning that… to sit with that stress response, and then gradually that will decrease, and you will build a window of tolerance where

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Ela Law: That stress response isn't overwhelming, and you can handle it by just letting it flow through your body, and…

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Ela Law: Off you go. So, yeah, in the moment, it's really hard.

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Christine Chessman: Yes, and it's something that's so interesting, because I'm… I've done some work on the nervous system with.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: Tasha and Brandon, so I'm doing, kind of, every day, I'm doing some sort of nervous system regulation.

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Ela Law: Right.

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Christine Chessman: And I see it, I see it, because I used to get these from, like, neural pathways, from my anorexic use and various eating disorders, and just body dysmorphia, everything.

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Christine Chessman: There's times that I will look in the mirror and see something that I don't like, and panic, and go… and it's…

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Christine Chessman: I had a moment a couple of days ago, and I was able to go…

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Christine Chessman: just sit with it, and actually just go outside and maybe just breathe a bit. Yeah. And then go, you know, I don't have to react to that, that's a thought. That's a thought coming from a place that's just a pathway that is well-trained.

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Christine Chessman: give me these, you know, responses, and I don't actually need to do anything. It doesn't mean that my body is wrong, it doesn't mean that I am wrong at all.

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Christine Chessman: And it's just about being really kind to yourself.

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Christine Chessman: In that moment, and knowing that it's a very normal thought, but it doesn't mean…

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Christine Chessman: It's true, and it doesn't mean you have to do anything, which is the hard bit, isn't it?

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Ela Law: Oh, because we're being, yeah, we're being told that we have to fix something that doesn't feel good, right? And those thoughts and those feelings don't feel good in the moment.

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Ela Law: But just imagine how resilient you'll be when you are allowing the things that don't feel good to just be there. Allow them to be there and not be scared of them. Takes all the anxiety away, because they can't hurt you anymore, can they? No.

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Ela Law: I've just listened to a really good podcast, and I won't link it in the show notes, because it's in German, and I would imagine most people listening are not German speakers, but it was about shame, and the researcher that was interviewed was talking about how we always want to, you know.

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Ela Law: get rid of shame, you mustn't be ashamed, you must not feel shame. And he says, no, we need to invite shame in, because shame is there for a reason. We don't want to be shamed into something that, you know, doesn't apply to us, or that, you know…

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Ela Law: That we take on, that isn't our burden to take on. But if we feel shame, that is a response, and let's just…

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Ela Law: let's just sit with that and see what… where it takes us. And it's the same with kind of negative anxiety kind of emotions that come up, or triggering things. It's just like, let's just see what it's trying to tell us. What is that?

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Ela Law: Trying to say to us, right?

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Christine Chessman: And it's about talking about it as well, and doesn't Renee Brown say something about it can't live, like, shamefully?

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: live in a petri… I don't know the.

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Ela Law: Yeah, shame can only… I don't know exactly, but it's about shame can only survive in the shadows when you hide it, when it's out in the open. It's actually… it wilts slightly.

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Christine Chessman: And coupling.

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Ela Law: like a weed that you pour vinegar on, it just goes…

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Christine Chessman: Exactly that, and it is… you know, there's no point in us sitting going, we have it all figured out, we don't get these moments, because it's not true.

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Ela Law: Of course we have them!

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Christine Chessman: And I think it is that window of tolerance, and it is that distress tolerance more than window of tolerance. It's that distress… being able to sit with.

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: okay, my body, I'm going… hold on a second. Hold on, just take a minute, take a minute.

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Christine Chessman: Where you start googling, you know, ways to whatever, you know, work on…

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Ela Law: backline.

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Christine Chessman: or whatever you need to do, just take a minute before you do that. And I just listened to a podcast myself with Stephanie Michelle, who's also been on the podcast, who's fantastic.

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Ela Law: Loved her.

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Christine Chessman: And she was saying about… she gets… now, if she looks at herself in the mirror and starts thinking, oh, I need to change my body, she gets angry at that. She's, like, angry at society for making her seem that way.

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Ela Law: Yeah!

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Christine Chessman: You know, so rather than go on, I better give in to it, she's like, I can't believe!

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Ela Law: I know, right?

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? And I think that's a really good way to think about it.

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Ela Law: Yeah, it's using your anger in the right way, not against yourself, but at society, that's actually telling you something that is untrue. That reminds me of a very short interaction I had with someone at the checkout at the supermarket yesterday.

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Ela Law: I can't even remember how we got into it, but it was… it was about something that I bought. It must have been some biscuits or something, and it was something along the lines of, oh, you know, I just… I'm trying to… she was talking about her grandson's birthday, and having 3 cakes, and it was that typical narrative of, oh, I just have to look at the cake, and I put on weight.

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Christine Chessman: Get on wet, yeah.

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Ela Law: And I was just sort of chatting about, well, it's nice if we can actually come to a place where we can enjoy a piece of cake and not feel bad about it. And she said, oh, I've been on a diet for all my life, and…

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Ela Law: And I said, well, isn't that a sign that it's not working if you have to be on it for your whole life? And she said, oh. And I said, and also, who's saying we need to be smaller? And she said, do you know what? It's just me.

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Ela Law: And there was a little… there was a liter… you could hear the penny go like… and I thought, oh, okay, maybe she's now starting to think about what she's doing. There's no expectation from anyone else, by the sounds of it, on her shrinking herself. It's just herself, and she was just a bit like, huh.

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Christine Chessman: Well done, Ella!

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Ela Law: I don't know if it's gonna, you know, if it's… but it's that kind of thing that, you know, who says?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, who's friends.

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Ela Law: Who's that?

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Christine Chessman: And one thing that I would encourage folks to do is not… if people start going, oh, I need to lose so much weight.

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Christine Chessman: just don't… don't… don't join that conversation. Like, just don't comment, even. Because it just ends it quickly, and you don't… because once you get into it, you start going, oh, but you look fine, or you look… and then you get into dangerous territory, we end up commenting in people's bodies.

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Ela Law: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: Never ends well.

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Ela Law: No, and then you're entering into the, it's all about your looks kind of…

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Christine Chessman: suck. Well, it's…

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Ela Law: You know, we don't.

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Christine Chessman: So, you look fine, what is fine? Yeah. Why do you look… you know what I mean? You don't need to… but why should any… you know, it's… it gets into that tricky territory, stand back.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Let's talk about something else.

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Ela Law: Yeah. Definitely.

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Christine Chessman: But, we have to finish now, actually, because we've yaked on for so long, as we always do.

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Ela Law: If we yapped on for a lot longer than I thought we would.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I'm so pleased that you're my co-host, because I would be a rambling mess without you to bring.

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Ela Law: No, you wouldn't be. You wouldn't be.

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Christine Chessman: breaks, like, school.

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Ela Law: It can probably be a lot more coherent without me sort of tangenting into… Right.

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Christine Chessman: Very important, but thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening, everybody.

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Ela Law: Yes.

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Christine Chessman: And always let me know, and let us know, if you have any comments or any feedback, or we'd just love to hear from you. And next week, we have a very special guest. Tell us more, Ella.

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Ela Law: Oh, we've got This Woman Lifts Elizabeth Davis coming to talk to us about, amongst other things, her book, Training for My Old Lady Body, but also about, generally, how she got into the whole thing, and, how she… I mean, it kind of… it's a nice segue, what we talked about today, into next week's episode. It's about, you know, training for a body that is…

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Ela Law: helping you to function in life, to stay mobile, to actually do the things you want to do, rather than to shrink it and to look a particular way. So, I'm really excited to talk.

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Christine Chessman: Gotcha.

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Ela Law: That is absolutely lovely. I met her briefly once. So yeah, I'm very, very much looking forward to it.

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Christine Chessman: Brilliant. So join us next week, but for now, thank you for listening in.

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Ela Law: Thank you! Bye-bye!

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Christine Chessman: Hi!