He Kept The Crypto, I Kept The Lesson Ft. Marina - Ep.170

Special thanks to Marina for being a part of this episode of Unattainable Podcast Show 

We trace Marina’s path from teenage modeling in Tokyo and high-volume work in China to war, migration, body image, and a toxic relationship that taught hard lessons about love, money, and boundaries. Honest talk on healing, monogamy, and building a life that fits your soul.

• grueling modeling schedules and safety contrasts in Tokyo vs China
• creative projects as joy vs commercial gigs as grind
• leaving Ukraine before bombing and how war reset priorities
• buying a home at fifteen and the weight of distance
• US move, isolation without papers, launching TikTok income
• body dysmorphia, starvation-binge cycles, healthier agency support
• love bombing, narcissistic traits, trauma bonding patterns
• crypto money entanglement after breakup and financial boundaries
• dating apps vs real-life meets, coffee dates, red flags
• conflict languages, personality types, and repair over rupture
• social anxiety rooted in school ostracism and resilience
• gender roles, reciprocity, monogamy, and personal red lines

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Transcript

Welcome, Hosts, And Marina’s Intro

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Leos are fun but dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Modeling in China is like it's hell. I've realized that when you're doing some creative cool projects with like photographers where the team just like wants to create and it's giving more art, those things are fun, but just like the things that bring in you money, they're not fun at all. I always wanted to be a model.

SPEAKER_06 0:18

The highest rates of anxiety, depression, all these mental health issues are all the richest countries.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Be grateful for the life that you have. Yeah. Because some someone's dad is dying in the war now, someone's child just got bombed. People are so like judging here. He called me a fucking idiot because I bought water with like my credit card.

SPEAKER_05 0:38

You also said trauma bonding. What trauma bonding were you referring to exactly?

SPEAKER_02 0:44

It's basically this like emotional manipulation when at first you're like so loving and then you're just like super dismissive. And so the person thinks that the problem is like I'm the problem, I did something wrong because he's acting weird. Like, why is he acting like that? He was so nice and now he's not. The more the person is like smart and intelligent, the less they're like connected with their soul.

SPEAKER_05 1:08

Dating other people aspect of it will teach you how other people will treat you and how those things make you feel.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

If the guy like cool and good enough and like on top of his shit, doing his work, he would not be like on Ryan.

SPEAKER_05 1:24

If I called your ex now.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Don't do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:32

Welcome to Unattainable. Glad to have you with us. I'm your host, Zach Evans, along here with my co-host Mohammed Mola'i. And first of all, thank you to all of our listeners. We've been getting a ton of growth over the last few months, and we gotta thank all of you guys out there for that. Today we got a special guest on the show. This is Marina. Marina, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience, your name, what you do, and your star sign?

SPEAKER_02 1:55

My star okay. My name is Marina Phillips. Uh, I'm a model, and I just recently started acting. And I also do TikTok. Uh, but like, yeah, I'd say acting is my passion now. Uh my star sign is Leo.

SPEAKER_06 2:07

Leo, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yeah, people people say I don't, I'm not like a lot of people. I didn't expect that at all. Really? What would you think?

SPEAKER_06 2:14

I am like one of the nice signs, you know? Like uh Leos are nice?

SPEAKER_02 2:19

They're like Leos.

SPEAKER_06 2:20

Leos are fun, but uh dangerous. A little bit why did you smile when I said dangerous?

SPEAKER_03 2:26

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_06 2:27

What did I tell you about bringing toxic people onto the show?

SPEAKER_03 2:30

I'm like the most non-toxic people.

SPEAKER_06 2:32

I'm pretty sure my my my therapist told me I'm not supposed to talk to Leo's.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

What's your sign?

SPEAKER_06 2:36

I'm the best one. Smart, funny, attractive, tall, good looking, smart, funny, and attractive. Yeah. Pisces.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Pisces. Okay, what about you?

SPEAKER_06 2:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

I have no idea. I'm so bad with signs.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

Throw something.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Virgo.

SPEAKER_06 2:51

Yes. That was pretty good. That was pretty good. I'm psychic. I didn't believe in signs until I met Mo and he was a Virgo. And I don't know if you know Virgo, they're supposed to be like giant nerds, like really logical.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:04

I'll we'll go to like, hey, you want to like grab lunch? I'll be like in the room with him. I'm like, yeah, sure. It'll be like 10 minutes later. It's like Google calendar invite from Mohammed, and it's like lunch at like 10:30. I'm like, Mo, I'm right here. Like he does spreadsheets, he got everything organized. It's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

It's so funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:24

Tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

So I I started modeling when I was

Early Modeling In Asia: Pay Vs. Exploitation

SPEAKER_02 3:30

14. I went to Tokyo by myself. It was a fun experience in China. And yeah, it was it was very nice because I was able to like get lots of money for my age, but it was very, very hard to work. They're insanely hard. Like modeling in China is like it's it's hell. Like people don't understand how hard it was.

SPEAKER_06 3:52

And you're tall, you do you you did fashion or you did commercial? You're like probably right on that line.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

I'm 5'10, but like in China, you don't really it's not like super fashion, it's just like it's more more of like quantity than quality. You don't do like cool stuff, but you do like you work every day and they're paying per hour, and it's like $250 per hour. So you're getting a lot of money. But also, the specific uh thing about working in China is that they you don't have like a fixated working day, like eight-hour day. If they want, because they're paying per hour, they can hold you on set for like 15 hours. Like my my maximum uh longest job was like 14 hours, and it's like insane. And it's not like you're chilling, you're just doing something, it's you're literally like standing on the background. They even ask you to like not go change to the changing room because it's like taking time. They're asking like all the team to just turn around and they're like changing you on the spot so they save time.

SPEAKER_06 4:54

I remember, yeah, the the first model that I dated, right? I remember she had like a sketchy kind of like she was like not sure if it was legit. She's like, Can you come with me? I'm like, Yeah, sure. So we get to the place, and literally all day it's just outfit, shot, shot, shot, shot, shot, boom, next outfit, shot, shot, shot, shot. I remember thinking, I was like, is this fun for you? No, is it like it seems like like why do you want to become a model? You know what I mean? Like to me, modeling doesn't seem enjoyable. You know what I mean? Like, it may be the artistic thing, but like, is it fun or is it like a way for you to make money?

SPEAKER_02 5:31

You know what? When you're doing, I've I've realized that when you're doing some creative cool projects with like photographers where where the team just like wants to create and is giving more art, those things are fun, but just like the things that bring in you money, they're not fun at all.

SPEAKER_06 5:46

Okay, so you kind of do the money gigs to support yourself, but then actually you like doing the artistic stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Usually Leos aren't very artistic, but you seem like a maybe maybe you're like a Pisces Rising or something.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Yeah, you actually have some cool shit in the this year was like insane for me in the sense of like my cre my like spiritual and creative and creativity awakening. I just started like playing guitar and singing, and I just like I wanna go dancing too, do this all kinds of stuff. It's like really interesting to me.

SPEAKER_05 6:19

How old are you?

SPEAKER_02 6:20

22.

SPEAKER_05 6:20

Okay, so you went to Asia when well this is basically like eight years ago, yeah. And um, that's prior to the war.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:32

So what so first of all, how did you get recruited? How did you end up going to China?

SPEAKER_02 6:39

I always wanted to be a model, and when I um was like 13 and already like the the high that was like okay, that was minimal hide. We applied to the agency in Ukraine. I just like Googled best agencies, applied to them. They're like, Yeah, you're amazing. They signed me and they did a few test shoots. It's like when they're making um like when they're building portfolio for you in order to like clients then see like you on the um like what you're able to do, like your pose and your face, how you look on camera. We did a few of those and they had a casting to Japan. Like the boss from uh Tokyo agency came to Ukraine and she was like scouting girls and they liked me and they yeah, they invited me to Tokyo like one month later after I like stuff finished the visa process. I went there.

SPEAKER_05 7:30

And so your parents didn't go with you or didn't you? No, no, no. So you went alone, unfortunately. I went alone. How did they how did they feel about that at that point?

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Uh they were really supportive, and also it's like, yeah, you're going by yourself, but I was like, I'm pretty intelligent for my age, I'd say, and responsible. So and I knew English well. And if you know language, it's like you can get lost, you can like you can also always ask people and like just get whatever you need. And also you had agency there. They w they wasn't like babysitting you, but still, if you need any help, they're there to help you. So and Tokyo is was it was an amazing time and such a safe place. We would never like lock the house and the metro. You can like sleep with your cell phone like in your hand without worrying that someone will steal it. And it's just like such a cool, safe feeling.

SPEAKER_06 8:26

But that still had to be kind of scary. Or or no?

SPEAKER_02 8:30

No, it was like a different world. Like, I've never experienced this kind of like feeling of safety and like clu clue.

SPEAKER_06 8:39

I'm not referring to the city as much. I'm just like, okay, so I'm from Wisconsin, right? We're like uh Canada's drunk little cousin, right? And it's kind of like if you're in Wisconsin, you work the same factory your dad worked at for 40 years, and then you you make a casserole and then you die. And that's like your life. Like everybody stays in like I went back uh a couple of months ago to Wisconsin, and like my high school friends are going to the same bowling alley we went to one of them was wearing his letter jacket, and I was like, I just want to shake you out of your comfort zone. And these are guys in their 30s, you know. Um, but I feel like most people are scared to leave something that's comfortable, and they know, and you have all your friends there, and you have your support network. So, why did you feel like what was it about your upbringing or your personality that made you either not fear that, or maybe you did fear that, but you're just like, fuck it, this is what I want to do, and I'm gonna go for it.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

This is the this was kind of the opportunity that not every girl gets, and I was actually like super excited about that, and also because we knew that like Tokyo was completely safe, that agency would like help you if you need anything, and also the big part why my parents were so chill is because they would like they at that time there were few girls in YouTube, like models who would like vlog their life and like explain basically like step by step, like what's happening, what will be happening with you. So I would like play this YouTube to my parents and they would be like more chill about it because it is like nothing not nothing crazy.

SPEAKER_06 10:16

Like, look, this girl's she has a cool vlog, she's in Tokyo. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. That's cool. Interesting, interesting.

SPEAKER_05 10:23

So you you weren't at at that point, how long were you were you there?

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Uh I

Creative Joy Versus Money Gigs

SPEAKER_02 10:30

was in Tokyo for like two months, two-month contract.

SPEAKER_05 10:33

Uh-huh. And then you went back to Ukraine?

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 10:35

Okay, and then what did you end up doing in Ukraine?

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Um, continuing school because I missed like two months of school. And it's actually so insane when I the kids were like really jealous because first of all, I was in Japan for two months. Second of all, I missed two months of school. And I remember when I came back to my school, I brought like I had two huge bags of like Japanese sweets and snacks, and I was so excited to share with people. I come into the class and I'm like, hey, nobody said hi to me.

SPEAKER_06 11:04

Crazy.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Yeah. And ever since I started modeling, I didn't really have friends, especially girls. I had like two bros that I was like friends with. We were still friends with them, but with girls, like it was hard to connect.

SPEAKER_06 11:17

I bet girl girls, especially at that age, like the jealousy and competitiveness is pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

They would cut me off from like all the class chats and everything.

SPEAKER_06 11:30

Were they overt about it? Like were they like talk shit to you, or was it they'd say, Oh, hey, I love your address, and then just like never text you and never invite you to anything? Was it more like no?

SPEAKER_02 11:41

It was more like uh like a cold and negative. They they weren't like smiling in my face.

SPEAKER_06 11:46

Yeah. Crazy. Yeah, girls are vicious.

SPEAKER_05 11:50

At what point did you end up coming to the US?

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Uh, three years ago. We we we were planning to move here before the war started because my mom, she had a boyfriend at the time and he's American. So we were he proposed to her when he visited us in Ukraine. So we were like, we started um document process, but because of the war, it like kind of sped sped up the process. So yeah, that's how we were able to get here. I already have my green car.

SPEAKER_06 12:17

Hey, congrats! Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

You just got it recently.

SPEAKER_06 12:21

You did the lottery or you married somebody?

SPEAKER_02 12:23

My mom.

SPEAKER_06 12:23

Because through your mom.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Yeah, I was I was so lucky because I was um like 19, and until 21, you're like considering it's your mom's child, and you just like go as an addition to her. So that's how it happened.

SPEAKER_06 12:36

Nice. Well, hey, I know people still waiting. They were like, it's been like five years. Like five years? It's like crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Actually, like a marriage-based green cards, they're the fastest ones. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, even like ours took us three years, but people like get it way faster, I think.

SPEAKER_05 12:52

Yeah, I mean, there there's been cases uh getting their green cards in like two months, which is kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yeah, also we don't have a lawyer or anything, we just like applied everything by ourselves, so I guess that's why it took longer.

SPEAKER_05 13:04

Yeah, those usually take a while. Um so during so so so you guys moved here right before the war started?

SPEAKER_02 13:13

After the war started.

SPEAKER_05 13:16

And um how did that so so tell me like your experience, because at that point you're 19, you know that you're gonna come to the US, and then the war starts. And so what's going through your mind?

SPEAKER_02 13:31

So I always saw myself in the US. I always wanted to be here. I was growing up with Nickelodeon, like watching all the shows they raised me, and I was like, Yeah, that's where I want to be. But when the war started, it's like I never wanted to live in Ukraine as much as my in my entire life. Like now, all I want is to like be there. Of course, I understand that here it's better for me to like grow and like earn money, but still I I love Ukraine. I just I bought a house there from the money I made from modeling when I was 15. And I lived there for just like six months because it would still build, it would still like build because we bought it when there was just like a plan of the house. So it took a few years to build that. And we lived there for six months, and then the war happened. And actually, um, this is a crazy story, but I left Ukraine a few hours before they started bombing us without knowing because my mom was like, I'm so afraid of the war, you should go visit your sister, should stay with her. I'm like, mom, what are you talking about? Like, where's not gonna happen? And uh she was like, No, no, no, go. She bought me a ticket and for like just two days to just like visit my sister. And my flight was the last flight that ever left Kiev. Like, I was in the airport, and the flights that were next next after mine started like canceling, canceling, canceling, and I'm like, oh I told my parents and they were like all they already knew. They're like, okay. Yeah, and I flew to Germany, we went to bed, and at like 9 a.m. we woke up because parents heard calling us that we're getting bombed. Crazy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:05

I always forget how like lucky we have it being in America where it's like nobody like bombs us, we don't have like someone right next to us. So, like, like people like argue about wars on like Instagram and shit, and I'm like, we have it so easy, like we just sit here and we have the giant ocean between us, and you know, yeah, like we have like no real problems here.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Like, it's like you know, you know, war

Tokyo Safety And Teenage Independence

SPEAKER_02 15:30

in Ukraine really shifted my perspective, and now whenever I'm like, Oh, I'm sad or oh I'm having trouble, I'm like, wake the fuck up.

SPEAKER_06 15:38

I've been telling people this for so long. I it's crazy. So the the highest rates of anxiety, depression, all these mental health issues are all the richest countries. Yeah, and that's my theory is like it's like, yeah, if you live in Venezuela and like you might walk outside and get shot, and if you want water, you have to like walk three miles to the well on your Android phone, you know what I mean? It's like you have real problems. So, like when like, oh, my boyfriend broke up with me, it's like it's not that big of a deal. It's like at least I have water, at least I'm like safe, you know what I mean. And I think that in America everybody's so coddled with participation trophies, and you're great just the way you are. All you have to do is like say, I am worthy 20 times in the mirror every morning, and you're gonna be great. And it's like, no, actually, you have to like put the work in and you have to like do shit, and you have to like become the person that deserves and be grateful for the life that you have.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Yeah, because some someone's dad is dying on the war now, someone's child just got bombed, someone just went to bed and never woke up because the rocket hit their home. Like you don't really have any reasons to be sad because, like, I don't know, you can't buy a new iPhone or whatever.

SPEAKER_06 16:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:59

So you said that you bought a house or bought an apartment when you were 15? That's kind of crazy. Why did you do that?

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Uh well, I was like, I'm being smart with my money. I'm not gonna get back, because I'm gonna invest into a property. But like I invested everything I've earned in two years in Asia to this house, and this is such a nice house. This is like the the coolest house in the city, the coolest apartment complex in the city. Um, it was just so beautiful and nice, and I built it with like my whole heart, and now I can't even like I I I wasn't in Ukraine for like three years, so it's just like standing there because I don't want to get rid of it because like it's my first it's my first house. I want to keep like living there when I come back, and I hope I'll come back soon. So it's just like standing there for now. I don't rent it out, don't do anything.

SPEAKER_05 17:52

How did it feel like uh being 15 years old and buying your own house?

SPEAKER_02 17:57

It was really cool. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_05 18:00

Did you tell your friends?

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Uh once the house was built, yeah. Because my mom like raised me, don't ever like say about like cool stuff beforehand. So like everything's nice.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Don't touch your chicken, yeah, yeah. Smart, smart.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:14

So uh um it did did you guys like not have like did your parents not have money to like have their own house or something?

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Or so my parents uh got divorced when I was like seven. So father used to live in his like apartment. Um he moved out from our like home where we used to be all together. And uh we had a house, it was like three-bedroom apartments, but in like the very, very old building. And this one is like uh the first business class apartment in my hometown, so it was definitely like an upgrade.

SPEAKER_05 18:50

What did your mom say when you decided to do that?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Well, well, she was very happy and proud of me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's even it's so crazy. They couldn't even like put the house on my name because I was underage. So we had to put it on mom's name, and yeah, because like nobody buys the houses when they're 15.

SPEAKER_05 19:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:12

But your mom is here now, that you said in Texas, yeah. Okay, so you got so did you guys move to Texas originally? Yeah, yeah. Okay, and then you from there moved to LA. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Okay, and then New York and then LA again. But I like New York more.

SPEAKER_05 19:26

Nah, nah, nah.

SPEAKER_06 19:27

Let's make New Cha. So why are you in LA?

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Uh, I have more work here.

SPEAKER_06 19:34

It's better. Weather's better, everything's better.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Weather is the only part about LA that I love so much.

SPEAKER_05 19:40

What do you like about New York?

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yeah, the feeling of like a real city and community, and then I can just like walk there and find adventures, and that it's like, I don't know, it just makes me want to be busy and like to become a millionaire faster. Here I'm like so chill.

SPEAKER_06 19:56

I see. Okay, here's Miami, New York element. Right?

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 20:00

Those are like the three main cities. LA's the best, Miami's second, New York's third.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

New York's third?

SPEAKER_06 20:06

New York's third. So the reason is I base cities on culture. I think that's okay. Well, it has tall buildings. It's a building. It's like a bunch of bricks and whatever. Who cares? The culture of the values in, for example, Miami. Miami values flash, right? So money, Lambos, bottle service. Miami's great if you want to spend 10k a week and trying to get laid, right? And then you know, blame feminism if it doesn't work. That's Miami. New York is all about pedigree. They value, hey, like maybe you didn't do anything with your life, but like your dad has a house in the Hamptons, and he paid for your your tuition at Harvard or Yale or one of these schools. So like you're cool because like your dad has money, right? LA's the only one where like your dad could be a janitor, and it doesn't matter if you're an amazing singer or model or actor and and you have talent and you work hard, you're valued based on your talent. Honestly, you don't even have to be that talented. You could be a moron with a ring light and make more money than like an actual surgeon. And that's why LA is the best to me. Because like despite all the homeless dude pooping in a bag outside of Whole Foods and everything, it's like this is the place where anybody can make it. Whereas the other ones, it feels like it's like, yeah, New York kind of have to know people. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 21:36

It has to be- I feel like it's more here like that. Like, if you don't know people, LA will be like so boring and like awful.

SPEAKER_06 21:44

Yeah, you're right, but it you can meet those people. We're like New York, you have to have like the family ties. Like it has to be like my dad knows your uncle, so now like we fucking, you know what I mean? Like you could just go to a party and meet some like TikToker with like 10 million followers.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

But also, people are so like judging here. Like, if just a regular, regular person were like trying to talk to them or meet them, they'll be like, Who are you? Yeah, but in New York, if you're like all in one bar, you're like, hey, bro, like you know what I mean? They're more like welcoming.

SPEAKER_06 22:18

But that's also why I like LA because like you build. So, for example, I've been here like 10 years, probably, right? So I had to spend the time to network, get to know people. How do you get into this party? Like, you can't just get in, right? You have to like know people. So if some tourist comes in with a bunch of money, it doesn't matter. He could have $10 million in the bank, he's not gonna know where to go, he's not gonna know who to talk to. What what are the poppin' spots? Like you can't just whereas like Miami, you can just buy your way in. You just oh, it's 11 tonight. Okay, here's how much a table is. You just buy your way in. Where LA, like, it like it's like you have to work your way in. So, like, if I put in the work, I don't want some fucker coming in from Saudi

War, Perspective, And Gratitude

SPEAKER_06 23:00

Arabia and you know taking all my shit.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

So Okay, I have never thought about this way, but so yeah, stay in LA.

SPEAKER_06 23:08

That's the bottom line of the story.

SPEAKER_05 23:10

Stay in LA. Um, so then when you came to the US, you you continue doing modeling. Yeah. Um, did did the modeling world and industry ever make you question your worth?

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Um, not question my worth, but definitely it made me lots of issues with like my uh self-image, yeah. And like body image and body dysmorphia and stuff for sure.

SPEAKER_05 23:37

Is that what you're like do you still suffer from that?

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Yeah, I don't think it will ever go away. It's like it's already there, and yeah, I don't think it's coming away.

SPEAKER_05 23:47

How do you deal with it on a day-to-day basis?

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Um I'm just trying to like be the best version of myself, like don't itch you and work out and like just stay um stay active. And if I'm like not unorexically skinny, that's okay. Because like for modeling, you've really got to be like unrexically skinny. And I'm not the I'm not this type. Definitely I like I'm I'm a little bigger, and it was always a problem for me because like some some models they're like natural like that. They can eat burgers and fries, and they're just like thin, so thin. And the other rest of the girls are girls who are dieting so badly. Like when I just started modeling, I would eat like one apple a day. I got I had like a crazy anorexia, and it was it was not fun. So, yeah, it's like it's really messing up with your per like perception of yourself and also self-esteem, self-esteem, yeah. And also you're like comparing yourself with all with all the girls, like she's skinnier, she's skinnier. Oh, I'm like the fattest model on the set. Oh my god, I want to suicide. Like, that's that's really sad. It hits you hard.

SPEAKER_06 25:02

I could see that it's so crazy to me because I see some of these girls and they're like, Oh, I'm fat, and I'm like, Where is this fat you're talking about? Is it underneath your like abs? Like, where is the fat? Is it underneath your rib cage? I don't see any fat anywhere, but I do think it's like a mental thing at some point.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

For sure. And even if when I am skinny, I don't see myself as skinny. Like last summer when I just like broke up with my ex and I was super like sad, and I was so skinny. I feel like I was like 15 pounds less than I am now, or maybe even 20, but I would look at myself and I still still see like like I'm fat, you know?

SPEAKER_05 25:39

Interesting. Did did you um I guess this this self-image and your lack of self-esteem, did it ever um affect your relationships?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Um not real. I wouldn't say so. No.

SPEAKER_05 25:58

So you wouldn't really bring it into the relationship where you know you would sort of vocalize the fact that I'm fat, I'm this, I'm that, and why are you with me? I'm ugly.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

No, I I don't think like uh I wouldn't say that I'm ugly or like I wouldn't like it's not that crazy of a problem in my head. Like for a regular person, I think I'm I'm skinny, but for model, I'm like bigger, and I understand that. And I try to not h hate myself for that. And um actually I just recently got signed with this new agency, and they have like all sizes and shapes, it's more about like your face and your personality, and I really love their approach. And we just started working with them, and they're like, You're perfect, you're beautiful, like just embrace it. And I started because it's like the first time when I hear from the agency that like don't you don't have to lose weight or like you're you look good. So, this kind of like mentality is really healthy and cool, and it even encourages me more to like be healthy because when I hear that, oh you gotta lose like a few centimeters in your hips. I'm like, I'll be dieting and then I'll be binge eating, and at the end I'm gonna be even bigger than when they told me.

SPEAKER_06 27:08

Because then the binge eating makes up for everything. Yeah, I see, I see.

SPEAKER_05 27:12

Yeah, so you were you were saying about your recent breakup. How many so is it how how long ago was this?

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Uh a year ago.

SPEAKER_05 27:20

You broke up a year ago or you weren't in a relationship?

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Okay, we broke up a year ago. We were almost like two years together.

SPEAKER_05 27:25

Got it. You were two years together, and so so you broke up when you were 21 and you started dating when you were 19. That's when you moved here, no?

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

So as soon as you moved here, you started dating someone?

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Uh so when when we just moved there, uh here, we were in Texas, and my stepdad, he used to live in the very, very small town. Like, I've never I've never thought that I'm gonna like be stuck in such a hole because it was like really bad. It was like maybe 5,000 people lived there. It was a very small village in Texas, and it was very different from like the world

Buying A Home At Fifteen

SPEAKER_02 28:00

I used to live. And I didn't have a work document at the time. So I was stuck in my room. Like the only entertainment that we had was like to go to Walmart for grocery shopping. It was like the only thing. And it was the the the closest cool city was Austin, but it was like two hours away by car. So I would just like sit in my room and wait for my work authorization to then go and like start modeling because I couldn't start modeling and go anywhere till I had the documents, and it would like take forever. So I was just sitting in my room for seven months, but because of that, I started my TikTok, and then I was it was like my it started being my second main income after that. So it's like nothing that like everything that happens is for a reason, kind of because if I didn't have that much free time, I wouldn't like start this whole TikTok UGC thing. So that's that's good. And then and then uh my friend from Ukraine, she wanted to visit New York and she was like, I'm paying for a hotel. If you want to get tickets, like come visit me. So I visited her and I met him. He was like in my DMs, but then in New York, he replied to my store and I was like, Oh, this guy lives here, like maybe he can show us around. So I texted him, inviting him out, and uh we started dating after.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

Uh-huh. But that would have been a long-distance relationship at that point.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

We were like not see each other for a month, but then like go somewhere together, or he used to live in Miami at the time. We spent a little time in Miami. Then we went to visit my family in um Germany, and then we lived in LA together.

SPEAKER_05 29:42

So it was like he was moving around with you? Yeah. What was he doing?

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Uh crypto.

SPEAKER_06 29:48

Green fled. Crypto guys are the best.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

How old is he? Uh he was 10 years older than me.

SPEAKER_05 29:56

Okay. So he was 29. So he was 29. You were 19. Yeah. And then what did you okay? What did your family say when they met him? Did they meet him? Mm-hmm. What did they say?

SPEAKER_02 30:11

They met him right away. They loved him. They really loved him.

SPEAKER_05 30:14

So no issues, not a toxic relationship, just everything was kind of No, it was very toxic at the at the end.

SPEAKER_06 30:26

They end up end up in toxic.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

No, at first it all started as fairy tale, and I was the happiest person. He lifted me up so high and then like dropped me to the why, what happened? Um, just like the way I I don't think he was ever like the person who he was trying to seem in this like three-month period. He was like the the nicest version of himself that don't really exist in the real world.

SPEAKER_05 30:50

The first three months, yeah. So the first three months, he was this like dreamy person that was like doing everything for you. So love bombing hard. Yeah. Uh-huh. And then and then what happened after that three-month? Well, you like like do you remember the first moment where you were like where you were like, wait, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 31:11

The first moment after three months we went to Europe.

SPEAKER_05 31:13

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

And uh, you know how you like really starting to like you really learn the person more once you're like traveling with them? And it was like very bad. He was like negative. He was um, he wouldn't like want to hang out with me a lot. He would like, he would, he brought his computer and he was like playing video games and stuff. And the the moment that was like shocking for me, he called me a fucking idiot because I bought a I bought water with like my credit card and it like it had a fee on it while he was like trying to give me cash. Like, like it was just a dumb reason, and he called me a fucking idiot for that. And I was like, Well, that's not okay, that's not okay. But the thing is, the thing with love bombing is whenever they like lift you that high, you always feel that it will it might come back. And well, if I felt that if they were like this, then he will be like this again, but it's not true, it was just like like this, uh-huh. But because you felt that you felt that love, and you were like, Well, this is the person that used to like be so lovey-dovey with me. Like, where's this? Where did this go? And it's just like, yeah, it's it's illusion.

SPEAKER_05 32:29

Did you have a conversation with him about this?

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Yeah, tons of times, and what was he saying? But it was like, I'm not um like I don't have any rights to diagnose him, but if I were diagnosed him, I would diagnose him as narcissist.

SPEAKER_06 32:46

Like every girl, every every single girl.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

It's like I hate I hate talking about this and saying this because it's like I don't want to lay put like labels and say this about the person, but it was true, it was like really true. And

U.S. Move, Visas, And TikTok Pivot

SPEAKER_02 33:00

when we were trying to like work on our relationships, right? I I've heard about this. I was like studying a lot about narcissism, and I was uh reading a book and like watching podcasts about it, and like the the how people act and how they are in the relationship, and I was like, whoa, I think like we both kind of are like we should work on it. He's like, you are, I'm not. I'm like, well, that's exactly what I'm not thinking about.

SPEAKER_06 33:25

Like, that's what I was thinking, but I was trying to be nice, but like the item too to try to like, and then he like doubled down, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

You are yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 33:33

It's actually kind of funny.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

I mean, it's not what it is, and it's just like it's it's funny because I would I'm like a very self-aware person and I do know my like bad sides and your negative traits, my negative traits, and I for some time I was thinking, well, maybe I am a narcissist, but then then all the psychologists say that if you ever think that you're a narcissist, you're not. Because they never ever think that they would never think that they're the problem. Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 34:05

Okay, so so three months goes by, this guy starts to show his true colors, yeah. And you're still with him for a year and nine months after that. And throughout this time, are you guys always together, or or you're traveling, you're going, you doing your own thing, and he's go doing his own thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Both we're trying to like be together, we're trying to live in LA together while I was modeling here. Uh-huh. And yeah, there were like bad stuff happening that I don't really want to get into details. But at the end of the relationship, when everything like was so bad, I broke up with him, but I was I never did him bad, I never ever like betrayed him or anything. He because he was doing crypto, I would be like, Oh, and he was able to make like a lot of money from this one like meme coin. And I was like, Well, can you invest my money there? And I don't know anything about crypto. I sent him my like four 4k and it was just on his account, but he like somehow connected it to my phone so I could see like how how money grow, how grow and how they fall. I could see like the price. And when I broke up with him at the time, there was like 14k. And my family, my friends were like, Well, if you're wanted to break up with him, get your money first, and then break up. But I'm like, Always, that's so that's that's dishonest. That's weird.

SPEAKER_06 35:22

No, that's smart.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Well, that is not smart. Like, you love the no we need to bring you into reality. We need he brought him into the reality.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

I'm not naive anymore.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

He did that, but uh at the end he refused to let give him my money. Crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:38

You could probably sue him for it, take him to small claims or something.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

No, so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:43

Well, that's more than 10k, so that's gotta be an actual lawsuit. But um, okay, so so so you break up with him and then he keeps the money. What what is his response? I'm assuming you guys have broken up multiple times.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Um, one time before that.

SPEAKER_05 35:59

Okay, so one time you got back together. And did he cheat on you ever?

SPEAKER_02 36:03

No.

SPEAKER_05 36:04

That you know of?

SPEAKER_02 36:05

No. I I think he was loyal.

SPEAKER_05 36:08

Uh-huh. Why do you think this?

SPEAKER_02 36:10

I I w I want to believe that.

SPEAKER_06 36:14

If you wanted hard enough manifest it, he didn't cheat.

SPEAKER_05 36:19

What was his response when you when you broke up with him?

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Uh he was like very sad and devastated, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 36:27

Oh, was you mean I get what do you mean, I guess?

SPEAKER_02 36:30

No, he was. But it was crazy. Like, at first he was like sad, blah blah blah, and then he's like, get out of my house. And we were living in we were we moved to another place. I don't want to say where, but like we used to live in another city. And he kicked me out. He wouldn't even like let me like debrief and like figure out where I would go. He's just like, get out, I don't want to see you. You're not getting your money, get the fuck out. And I I went to New York, I stayed at my friend's couch for like a few days while trying to find room, and then I found room for myself and like moved there in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. It was a nice time. And after that, like this crazy thing with like love bombing and this like toxic emotional trauma bonding. I still like he did me so dirty that I thought I would I hated him, and I did hate him for like so long, and then in it's been like three or four months, and I texted him first that I missed him. Can you imagine? No, don't when was this? It was like three months after we broke up.

SPEAKER_05 37:32

Okay, so second so nine months ago.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:35

You texted him, you miss him.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Yeah, and then because I was we had like this like a podcast on Spotify, and I was listening to it, and I'm like, yeah, I texted him that like listening to his playlist without him sad, and we like started talking again and then got back together, and was we were like, Okay, this time is like the last time we have to put our hundred percent in this relationship. Like, I really love you, I don't want to lose you, but like I love myself more, and if it's if if like you're not gonna act right, I don't want this. So we were like, Yeah, yeah, okay. Lasted for two weeks, all the same problems went back. However, he he gave me uh some part of my money back.

SPEAKER_06 38:18

You gotta get all the money back before you break up with him again.

SPEAKER_05 38:21

Like I'm part of the 4,000 or some part of the 14,000.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

He gave me like 10.

SPEAKER_05 38:25

He gave you 10k back, okay. Yeah, so at least you okay, yeah. Yeah, at least you're in the black. You're like making it. Yeah, yeah, you made money.

SPEAKER_06 38:33

So there is that. I'm surprised. Um, so I used to be a fuckboy back back in the day. I'm a recovering fuckboy now. I'm very trying romantic, of course, but yeah, back in the day. Um, but to be fair, I was a professional fuck boy, right? I was always honest with girls. I would tell them, hey, I don't want anything serious, blah, blah, blah. And yet, three months later, they would always get like super pissed when they found out I'm talking to the girls. And I'm like, I didn't even gaslight you. And I could have, I'm really good at gaslighting. I could have gaslighted. I didn't. I'm like, you gaslighted yourself. You know what I mean? But what's interesting is I felt like the fuckboy stuff never worked on Russian and Ukrainian girls. Like, I would get white girls, a lot of Asian girls, Latino girls, but like Russians and Ukrainians, I felt like they always like would like see through my bullshit for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Well, yeah, I'd say we're like more we cut the bullshit

Body Image, Dysmorphia, And Healthier Agencies

SPEAKER_02 39:30

more.

SPEAKER_06 39:30

You do cut the bullshit more. Well, maybe not you, but other Ukrainians, all the rest of them. You still went under the rock. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

I'm not bullshit prone, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Yeah.

unknown 39:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Also, he wasn't, because he made me believe that we're like the soul mates and we're supposed to be together. And it really felt like that the first like three months, and then it was just he was my biggest hater. Now that I like go look back at it, he was my biggest hater. Crazy.

SPEAKER_05 39:59

It's interesting. Interesting to me because like you held on to this relationship over a three months um I guess uh honeymoon phase. Yeah. And it it's um it's fascinating because uh you also said that you also said trauma bonding. What trauma bonding were you referring to exactly?

SPEAKER_02 40:25

It's uh it's basically this like emotional manipulation when at first you're like so loving and then you're just like super dismissive, and so the person thinks that the problem is like I'm the problem, I did something wrong because he's acting weird. Like, why is he acting like that? He was so nice, and now he's not. So you're starting to like question yourself and your worth.

SPEAKER_05 40:50

And yeah, did your dad ever make you feel that way?

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Um, he was you know, now that I'm thinking about he was like the copy of my dad. And my dad is still texting my ex and refused to like unfollow him, and he's saying that like I'm the problem. Like, why did you break up with him? Yeah, my dad is like when my ex's side, and he's like, he was such a nice dude, you shouldn't have left him. You just left him because like he wanted more money, just like your mom. Is like you start like putting this like weird parallels instead of like dad, please. Yeah, my dad is weird.

SPEAKER_06 41:23

You know what's interesting about you is most people who went through something like that, right? Divorced parents, very bad toxic relationship, your dad's taking his side, all this kind of stuff. I feel like most people come out of that type of experience a little bit jaded, a little bit negative, but I don't sense that energy on you at all. Like you seem very I was very jaded at first.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

You were, but now I'm like, this year was like crucial for me in a sense of like changing myself and my mindset and beliefs. And I I love now that I had those kind of experiences because they built me into the person I am today, and like he totally like broke me into pieces, but then I like kind of rebuilded myself in the more stronger version, and like now I will never like go through this bullshit again because like I I've been through it, and yeah, I just love to have more positive.

SPEAKER_06 42:29

Do you think things happen for a reason?

SPEAKER_02 42:31

For sure, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 42:33

Interesting. I uh I used to never believe that until actually the reason I came to LA, um, so when I was back in college, I worked at Jimmy John's, you know, like the sub place. And the only reason I took that job was there's a girl at the ice cream shop that was next door. So, you know, during my breaks, I'd go talk to the girl and like chat her up and stuff like that. And I was like really shy back then, so I was like really bad at like talking to girls. So after like three months on my lunch break talking to her, I finally like mustered up the courage to like ask her out. And she said yes. So I was like pumped, right? So I'm like, okay, you get off at seven, I get off at seven tomorrow, meet me outside of Jimmy John's, I'm gonna take you to the movies, like we're gonna have a great time, right? So next day I'm making the subs, and my mind is like completely elsewhere. Like, I'm like thinking, oh, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna talk about? Like, I'm like pumped for this date, right? And seven o'clock hits, and I look up and I see her outside the big like glass window. She like kind of waves at me, and I get this like big smile on my face, like big cheesy grin. And as I'm about to walk out, my boss comes around from out of the back and he's like, Zach, before you go, don't forget you have gum duty. And gum duty was once a week, somebody had to like you know get on your hands and knees and scrape the gum off of the tables and the chairs, like the bottom of them, right? Wow, and I look at the girl and I'm like, I cannot have this girl see me like on my hands and knees, like scraping gum. You know, it's like bad for my brand, you know what I mean? So I look at my boss, I'm like, yo, like I will come in 6 a.m. tomorrow. I've been talking to this girl for three months, like we got a date, and he's like, No, you're gonna do it now.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

What an asshole.

SPEAKER_06 44:18

And I like look at her, I look at him like I can't. And he's like, if you don't do it, then you're fired. And that day taught me, like, there's two kinds of people in this world, right? There's the people that own the store, and there's the people that scrape the gum. And I was like, I will never be the fucking gum scraper again. And ever since then, I'm like waking up at 6 a.m. I'm like working on my YouTube channel, I'm like grinding videos every week, I'm stopped partying, I like stop hanging out with people. I was just like dialed in. But like that made me think like maybe that was supposed to happen. I mean, as bad as it was at the time, and like as like pissed off as I was, like, things maybe do happen for a reason.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

For sure. And do you guys know about like karmic relationships and stuff? It's the kind of relationship that are meant for you to experience to like teach you lessons. And it was a karmic relationship a thousand percent. Like, I've learned so much. I've he like opened my mind to different perspectives to some some of them good, some of them bad. He did cause me a lot of pain, but like the love that I experienced and the lessons that I learned and the people who he introduced me to, it was

Love Bombing, Narcissism, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_02 45:30

like it at the end of the day, it's all worth it, and like I'm really I'm I'm grateful to him, and um yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:39

It's a very mature attitude to have about it, especially at your age.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 45:44

Have you heard of Three Loves Theory? No, so people say there's everybody has three big major loves of their life, right? First is like your first love, so like puppy love, high school, and you think it's gonna last forever because you've never experienced anything else before, right? Second love is the toxic love, and that's the love that that that breaks you down and gives you the trauma, but it's also the love where you learn what you truly want in a relationship, and you learn about yourself, and you learn this is the person I am, so that you will be prepared when you meet the third love, which is your soulmate. I love it, and you can't, but you can't, people think you can skip to the third one, but you don't even know what you actually want. Like you could see your soulmate and walk right past him because like you thought you wanted like the guy with six-pack and and tick tock hair when actually you wanted the guy who was genuine and caring or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

So true. Yeah, like you can know you cannot know that something is good if you haven't been through bad things.

SPEAKER_06 46:52

Yeah, yeah, that yeah, yeah. Um so you got through at least the second one.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

Yeah. So I I honestly feel like my next boyfriend, like I want to make my next boyfriend my husband. Not like a make, but now I'm like not I don't really date. I don't really date, and I'm just like, I'm just know what I want and kind of like sticking to it and waiting for it. Uh I want someone who's kind, first of all.

SPEAKER_05 47:20

Bumper sticker. Oh that's a bumper sticker. Continue.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Um, kind, compassionate, emotional, intelligent, smart. Good sense of humor.

SPEAKER_06 47:35

What about um let me ask you this, because this is something I struggle with sometimes. Do you typically go for the more masculine kind of like alpha type of guy, or do you more go for like the guy with like you know, puts his pronouns in his Instagram bio, like, you know, sensitive?

SPEAKER_02 47:57

I don't even know my type. It's like my type is weird, it's like mid-ugly guys.

SPEAKER_06 48:03

Ugly guys with good personalities.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

Loki, yeah, no, there's it's a condition. I think I love nerds, probably, but not any I love nerds, but not anymore. Because I feel like the more the person is like smart and intelligent, the less they're like connected with their soul. It's like either of those. So now I'd rather choose someone who's like very like emotionally mature and like spiritually wise rather than this like has a computer in his mind and like knows how to make good money.

SPEAKER_05 48:31

You need to start dating again. This whole strategy of not because you have these perspectives are that that are not particularly accurate. You've like made up these things in your mind, and you think that they're they have you know any factual reality, they just don't. Wait, what do you think? And so well, you know, what what her perspective of like I feel like this is like if this is the type of person and then they're like lacking in this area, they're all different types of people. And the the the problem is you just you just describe like the type of guy that you like, and it lacks depth, you know, they're very like genetic traits. And if you talk to most girls who struggle in dating or or you know don't have a significant other that is um what they're looking for, is because they're constantly going by these genetic traits, and so once you become self-aware and really get to know yourself, then you start to realize that, like, okay, I know myself well enough to know what makes me feel what. But in order for you to really have those experiences, you have to date other people, and the dating other people aspect of it will teach you how other people will treat you and how those things make you feel. But more importantly, the reason why your first was that your first boyfriend, or how many boyfriends did you have your second boyfriend? The the I don't know the first, you know, the story behind your first boyfriend, but the reason why you started dating someone who is so familiar to your father was because this is a very um very common thing. Like, you know, you've heard before that like women tend to date somebody who's similar to their dad. And that's because humans are neurologically wired to seek someone to seek familiarity familiarity in their um in their life. So they pick out these traits subconsciously in other people that make them feel like home. And so for you, especially because uh what age were you when your parents got divorced?

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Seven.

SPEAKER_05 50:50

Okay, that probably left some sort of a mark of abandonment as well. So that even more would push you towards someone who is familiar to the to your father because you want to kind of fill that gap that he never did, especially if he was kind of um, I guess, negative towards like who you are as a person and didn't give you that validation that you needed. So it so so so you dating other people would help you more with realizing what type of person you actually are gonna want to be with, but in a more of a deeper level than just like genetic traits that a bunch of people might have. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. I uh I don't like I don't see anyone, but I like try to go on a date. Also, like coffee dates, because I cannot handle like a first dinner date. It just seems so serious and like unnecessary. Because if you're having a coffee date, if you don't like someone, you can be like, oh, gotta go. But if you're like stuck in the dinner, you can't really leave in case like you're not vibing with the person, and the worst thing there is is like stick with someone and like the person who you don't really like.

SPEAKER_06 51:59

And they're just boring. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

I just recently got Raya. I was like, okay, oh no, don't do the app. Don't go down. I've never I've never been on the apps, but it just got raya, and it wasn't it wasn't great.

SPEAKER_06 52:12

No, all the apps are the same. People are like, oh, well, hinge is the class you want. Oh, right. They're all this, it's all the same pool of losers. It's all the apps. You're gonna get some dude with no headboard on his bed, no nightstands, bed just smashed up into the corner. Like, this you're gonna get some dude who eats sushi with a fork. Like, these are the people that are on these these online apps. Yeah, you gotta meet people in in the wild. Yeah, you know, in real life.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

I just I'm like, I'm having trouble to like socialize, and I'm not a very social person. Like, if I go out, I don't feel comfortable and I can't be like I'm I get crazy like introverted and I can start talking to anyone, so it's easier for me to do it online, I guess. But like, yeah, the kind the type of people that are on dating apps is like not the because like in my I've I've been always against dating

Breakup Fallout And The Crypto Money

SPEAKER_02 53:00

app because for me it's like if the guy is like cool and good enough and like on top of his shit doing his work, he don't he would not be like on Riot.

SPEAKER_06 53:11

You don't got time to be swiping and squirreling.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

Yeah, exactly. But I was like, I'll give it a chance, and no, I'll I'll I deleted it. Like if we could go, it's not not vibing with it.

SPEAKER_05 53:22

What's the craziest date you've been on?

SPEAKER_02 53:26

I don't really go on much, but there was this one guy who had first seemed like he like on paper, he was super nice, but the feeling inside was like something's wrong, and like, oh, we we had one like coffee date, and then the next day he was like, Oh, I forgot to bring you something. What's your address? And I told him address he came up with flowers that was super nice, super sweet. But then like the the third day we went to get a dinner, also like super nice. He didn't make any moves, he was super respectful. And then the the weird red flag was that he was texting me every like 40 minutes. Hey, what's up? What are you doing? I'm like, wow, it's so weird. It was weird, and then I asked him something, and he didn't respond to me in like seven hours, and I was like, Oh, you're playing games, okay. I'm cutting the bullshit. I stopped responding to him, and he's like, Oh no, I didn't know that it was like it it mattered to you that much, like this kind of communication. Please forgive me. I'm like, it's not that I'm like mad and like I forgive you, I'm just not interested because like I'm not interested anymore because I see through this, and he's like, he started like being super weird about like calling me every second, trying to get a second chance, um, like literally almost like crying on the phone. He's like, Oh, I thought my life is finally like getting better. I've I've never met anyone like so cool as you, and I'm like, wow, that's so weird. That is weird.

SPEAKER_05 54:58

Was he was he ugly or no?

SPEAKER_02 55:00

No, he was kind of cute. I kind of liked him.

SPEAKER_05 55:02

Was he cute for you, or would other people find him cute?

SPEAKER_02 55:06

No, other people would find him cute. I think, yeah. See, again, that that situation made me realize that it's kind of like nice and healthy to not be like a very agreeable and people pleaser and be like a little um, you know, have some boundaries because once you're having a conflict, the person is like showing their true self. So if we didn't have this like conflict in three days, I would not like he would like still be able to mask himself into like a nice guy, and I would not know that he's insane. You see what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 55:39

Have you heard of the conflict languages? No, so you know there's like the love languages that everybody's obsessed with. Oh, I'm physical touch, I'm whatever. Those are much less important to the actual health of a relationship than the conflict language, right? How do you fight, right? So there's like four conflict languages, right? So the first one is like the emoter, right? The person who gets angry and yells and screams, and you know, it's it's not that they don't care about you, they just don't know how to like deal with their emotions, right? Second type is the processor, right? So these are the people who are like kind of like, look, I need some time, I need to like go away and kind of process everything, and then I can come back, right? And to the emoters, the processors, it feels like they don't care about the relationship because they're leaving when actually they care so much that they don't want to say anything in the heat of the moment and they actually want to think things through, right? So they need to like communicate that. Um, and the third type is the avoider, and that's that's you. And it sounds like maybe there was this other guy too, where it's kind of like, let's just pretend the problem's not here and like not say anything, and this is really bothering me, but I'm not gonna say anything. And then after you know, three months of not saying anything, all of a sudden you get so pissed that's like the end of the fuse, and you blow up, and and then it's like, wait, why are you mad about this? But actually, it's all these little things that have been like building. So interesting. So that's you.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

That's me.

SPEAKER_06 57:05

Interesting, interesting. Yeah, I'm definitely a processor. Really? Yeah, girls always get mad at me because they're like yelling at me about something, and I'm just like, yo, I'm just like trying to think about this, you know.

SPEAKER_03 57:15

Oh, that's healthy. I love that.

SPEAKER_06 57:16

Yeah, actually, I'm the healthiest. You know, I'm the best one. People should really learn from me, is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_02 57:23

Wait, have you guys heard about 16 personalities? 16 personalities? This is the best thing ever. This this test uh from like um It's like an online quiz thing. Yeah, you guys should should um check it out, and also it's like so nice because it's even more accurate than the zodiac bullshit, the zodiac science bullshit because it's literally like how you operate and how you like see this world, kinda, and it's also like if you told me like what type you are, I could like look up their trays and already like know what kind of person you are, kinda. And it would be like really accurate, really accurate. Interesting. Also, it's very nice to see like compatibility in the relationship. So our compatibility was like so bad. I'm like more of this like fairy uh personality, and he's like he's like a logical logical, nerdy, like emotion-fucking nerd, yeah, no, no emotions at all, just like logic and yeah, yeah, it's like you know, it's um how they say it. It's like nice to say true, but also if you love someone, you'll be careful with this true kind of you know, you can't be like, I want best for you, I'm telling the truth. If you want best for me, you'll tell this truth like very carefully to not cut me.

SPEAKER_06 58:46

Kind of you know what's interesting about your personality, actually, is you come across like very easy to talk to. Like you seem like a great conversationalist, but then you also say that you don't do well at parties or that you have two people are max for me. Like you have do you do you get social anxiety?

SPEAKER_02 59:07

A lot, yeah. Interesting. I'm very bad with socializing. When I'm at the party, I feel super lonely and super like really bad. When I'm with like two people, max three people is already crowd for me. Like two people when we can just like talk about some like psychology, philosophy, and just like life and politics, history, it's like what makes me happy.

SPEAKER_06 59:27

Do you think that stems from like when you're in middle school, everybody kind of shunning you, and then feeling like ah fuck, I don't have any friends, nobody people aren't supporting me. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 59:38

Wait, that's insane. I never thought about it this way, but it actually makes so much sense now. You know, I was always like outcaster in the school. I'd be like alone and Yeah. I would literally like cry uh cry when I was at home because like I didn't have any friends, and I would like hang out with my mom, my sister, and my aunt. So I was like always around older people.

Dating Apps, Coffee Dates, And Red Flags

SPEAKER_06 1:00:00

You know how I know that?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

Well, how?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:02

Because so my freshman year of high school, right? I was kind of a loser. Um, I didn't have a lot of friends, my family was poor, so we got made fun of a lot. Um and there's this new kid to the school, his name was Nick, and he didn't have any friends, I didn't have any friends. I was assigned, you know, they assigned someone to like show the new kid to school. I was assigned that, and so we instantly like clicked, and we started, you know, we'd eat lunch together and we'd have sleepovers and you know, play video games and together and all that stuff. And it was the first time in my life that I remember feeling like genuinely just happy. Like I'd wake up, I'd be excited to go to school because like, oh, me and Nick are gonna eat lunch and like make fun of people and it's gonna be fun, right? But then three months later, right? It's like winter time, and one of the football players started this rumor that we're gay together. Because you know, we'd have like sleepovers, but you know, we're just playing video games, whatever. And so to me, I was like, dude, Nick, you're my best friend. Like, fuck what everybody says. Like, I don't care what these football players think, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

Oh, and he turned away from you.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:11

I could feel him like, you know, all of a sudden, oh, I can't, I can't come over, my mom won't let me, I'm busy. And then the moment it hit me was the first lunch after winter break, right? I go to lunchroom, I go to our usual spot back right corner, and I see Nick from across the lunchroom with his like little tray, right? And he looks at me and we make eye contact, and then he like looks away really fast and like goes and like sits at a different table. And the crazy part was like obviously I was crushed because I felt like I just lost my best friend. But was worse to me was I got this huge wave of anxiety that uh people were gonna see me eating lunch alone and think I'm a loser. And there's like the seniors in the lunchroom now, we're with the seniors and the juniors and everything. So so I stand up and I start like snaking around the lunchroom, you know, and I'm like shaking with my little tray and I'm like trying to look for a place to sit. And so I snake through the entire lunchroom, I'm like procrastinating it. I'm like, fuck, you know, and finally the last table, I'm like, hey, like, is anybody sitting here? And they all like stop talking and like look at me, and they're like, Yeah, go ahead, right? And they never did anything that was like mean or rude or make fun of me or anything, but like the the entire vibe that you could feel was kind of like like why are you here? You know what I mean? Like, what are you doing here? Like, we don't know you, and it was just so awkward, and so I ended up just eating lunch alone like the rest of the semester. But the crazy part is to this day, if I like go to a party where like I don't know anybody there, and like the person that I'm with like goes to the bathroom or leaves me for whatever, it's like it brings me back to that same feeling, and I feel like I'm like the kid in the lunchroom who like doesn't know who to talk to, you know what I mean? And like, what are what is everybody gonna think of me? And like, how do I like go talk to this like new people that I don't know? And like it's like one of those things that like I I almost like develop this like character who's like funny and entertaining and says some wild shit to like become someone who that people who is like deserving of love, if that makes sense, but I still like can't shake it, you know what I mean? It's like crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:45

I can relate to it so much, it actually made me almost tear up. Like, that's kids are so mean. I fucking hate mean people.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:53

I disagree though, I actually disagree with you on that. No, because it looks like oh, those kids were mean to me who like sat at their lunch table, but in reality, I was awkward and boring and shy, and I had to become a different person so that people will like me. And like, what are they gonna do? Like, pretend they're my friend, and like, oh, let's pretend like and really they're like, oh fuck, Zach's sitting down. Oh hey, Zach, like huh? And then it's like this fake relationship I developed.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

People were the ones who like started spreading the gay rumors.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:29

Oh, the gay rumors, yeah. I guess yeah, that was kind of mean.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:32

But I mean, you should raise your kids so they're like kind and nice and good.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:37

Yeah, but it built toughness, you know, it kind of like you know, it's cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

We had um there was this one guy in our class, and he was kind of like I still don't know his like diagnosis, but he was a little weird, like autistic kind of and um like people would make fun of him and I would be the one who was like sitting next next to him like in the um like school desk, right? Yeah, and even when we had when we were graduating from the school and we had like this um like school dancing party, like the the dancing party that they have after graduating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I everyone had um their partners, right? He obviously didn't have anyone. I asked him if he wants to dance with me. So that like my parents would always raise me and teach me to like be kind and compassionate and like nice, especially towards someone who has it tough in their life, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:35

That's how like my dad kind of taught me that because he was a gym teacher, and so like in the teacher hierarchy, it's like the gym teachers are like the low part of the totem pole, you know what I mean? Because like, oh, you're just a gym teacher, you just tell play kids to go play kickball. And he would always eat lunch with the janitors because he was like in his mind, he was like, Oh, you think I'm like not good enough? And like obviously the janitors are like the lower end of the social totem pole per se. And so he would always be like super nice to the janitors, and like every time I would like sometimes I would go to his gym to like he'd like unlock it and like let me play basketball, and I'd always see him say hi to the janitor and like hey, what's up, how you been? Ask about his family, like stuff like that. But I think that shit is so important, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:24

If I called your ex now, don't do that. I don't get him on the show, I don't know him, so I wouldn't be able to, but if I call them, what would he say happened? What would be his perspective of the breakup and the relationship?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:55

I think in his head, um, he thought that I wanted to

Conflict Styles, Personality Tests, And Self-Awareness

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

find someone like better than him. That I'm like looking for better options.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:03

I suppose that is true.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:05

That's absolutely not true. I didn't have like anyone after him and it's been a year, and he got a good girlfriend after like two or three weeks.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:11

But that is true though. You want to be with somebody who's better than him.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:14

Well, better not in those sense that like successful or like wealthier than he like thought.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:21

Not not because of money, but because of the way that he treats you, because of the way of him being his personality, so on and so forth. Yeah. And so but he thought that you broke up with him because of money. I think so. Or success. I think so. Yeah. Is that what most of you guys' fights were about?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

No. It was just like I can't even go back to the fights that we had because it was not about the fights, it was about the general like attitude and vibe, right? It wasn't like something like, oh, you um, it was just like this feeling that I had, the that I'm not loved. Oh, I was literally like begging for him to say that he loves me, and he'd be like, You're making me sad, like you're offending me, or like stuff like that. And I would be like, Oh tell me, you please, I just want to hear that like you love me, and he like would rarely do that.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:19

So, yeah, should women submit to their man?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

I would love to submit to my man, and um if he's a nice respectful man, if he is just like submit to me and I'll be like treating you like shit, then fuck you. No, that's not gonna happen. But ideally, yeah, like if in my perf perfect like view of how it should be, yeah, I'd I'd be down to submit, but only like in in the mutual respect and love situation.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:53

What is uh what is your idea of a um idea the the an ideal set of gender roles?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:04

Um so I think for personally I wouldn't want to like clean the house or I think cooking is like a nice thing because it's like showing a love, but I'm not showing a love if I'm like spending my time like washing floors and doing something that I'm not like excited about doing. I feel like I'd really love if like my husband can afford um a maid, a maid and um uh nannies maybe for some time. Sure. Because like happy life, happy life. No, but it's true. Like if I'm not stressed and if like my if my energy is like on the top level, then I'll be then I have energy to give to you, and I'm not just like dying because kids are like bothering me. I just cleaned the whole house and was standing uh in the kitchen for like two hours to make you dinner, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:10:04

Interesting. So so here here's my take on it. I typically date girls who are younger than me, right? So I typically end up taking charge in relationships, right? Um last girl I dated, it was kind of funny, actually. Worst driver in the history of mankind. We went to Six Flags once. The the ride over was scarier than all the roller coasters.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:28

And one day she calls, she FaceTimes me, and she's like in tears. She's like freaking out. She's like, Zach, I got in a car accident, like I don't know what to do. And I'm like, Are you okay? Like, are you safe? Are you hurt? And she's like, Yeah, but like I'm like freaking out. And it turns out it was just like a fender bender, but like she's like, you know, emotionally. I'm like, okay, like calm down, take a deep breath. It's very simple. You're gonna get out of the car, you're gonna take a video of the situation, you're gonna get their insurance info. I'll deal with the insurance, everything's gonna be fine. Like, you're insured, like everything's gonna be okay, right? So she gets out, and out of the other car, this other girl gets out, and she's freaking out, and she's on speaker phone with her dad, and he's walking her through it. So they end up just putting the phones like next to each other and talking to her dad through the through the speaker phone, right? And so, like, I like doing that in relationships because I like taking care of shit and feeling like the man, right? But it's like in order for me to not feel used, like, it's kind of like okay, if I'm paying for dinner dates and taking you out and and dealing with your car accident and like paying the 14 parking tickets that like you never paid, right? It's like you can't make the bed. Like, like I don't even care if it's cleaning, dude, draw me a picture, just do like something to like make me feel like like that that you're putting effort into the relationship. You you see what I'm saying? Yeah, like it doesn't have to be like cleaning or cooking, like we'll hop in the BMW, we'll go to catch, we'll get a steak prepared by a chef who's made steaks the last 30 years, you know. But I just feel like when I'm dating somebody, I need them to just just show me in some way that they're making an effort the same way that I'm making an effort, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:17

See, that's why I feel like uh not cleaning the house, but like making dinners is a nice, nice way of about the dishes, but I'll make dinner. Dishes are in you.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:29

Dinners on me, dishes are you.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:32

Does height matter? Does height matter?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:35

Uh it's preferable. Yeah, but also if it's like Tom Holland, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

He's he's shorter than me, but he's uh I'm so in love with Tom Holland. I'd I'd be down to date him.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:50

Why why is that? Why are you in love with Tom Holland?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:53

I think because of the I like used to watch his interviews and just like the way he treats, and I'm so happy for them. She just seems like a walking green flag.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:03

Yeah. So so so you love the the the the persona that has been um shown to the public.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:16

Well, I I can know his per real persona. That's the persona that I saw. I like it, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:22

Yeah, and and so that persona is what just like being respectful and being protective.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:27

Respectful and kind and just like nice. I don't know, it's all about the energies, like you you feel it. There's like a bullshit energy and real energy. His like real.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:36

Got it, got it. What's the shortest then you would date if it was a very Tom Holland type?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:43

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:44

Like if he was a Tom Holland type, but he was like five foot.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:48

Um I'm bad at feet. Can you always explain in like centimeters?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:52

Yeah, 100 centimeters.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:54

A hundred? Yeah. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:58

What is a hundred like?

Social Anxiety, School Ostracism, And Resilience

SPEAKER_05 1:14:01

Like like a little bit lower than five feet. Okay. Um, okay, so okay. So so five so okay, so a hundred, um, because you're what? You're 178. Yeah, so so let's say 150.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:17

Um, I think 172 centimeters is like the minimum. Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:22

Got it. I had a friend, well, technically she's my ex, but um we're still good friends, but she she's like 5'11, so you know, with heels, she's like right about at my level. And she always comes to me for like relationship advice. We kind of have that vibe now as friends. And she would always date, you know, like basketball players, NBA players, like people that were like six, five and up. And she's like, Zach, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Like, I can't find guys who you know want to settle down and they all have side chicks. And I'm like, Yeah, you're going for guys who are like six five rich, six pack abs, like of course, you know. I'm like, you should focus more on personality and like other traits. So next guy she dates is like 5'6. Like, he's like, I'm like, okay, you don't have to go like that short. Like, you could go like maybe like five'9 or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:12

But is he a good person though? He was. I met him one time.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:15

Cool guy, successful, funny, charismatic, you know what I mean? And a couple of weeks later, I'm like, hey, like, is Dave coming out tonight? Because I actually like the guy, you know what I mean? And she's like, Yeah, what happened to that? I was like, what? And she was like, Yeah, he came over one night, and she's like, I had a couple glasses of wine, and she's like, he walked in, and she's like, I gave him a hug, I picked him up, and I spun him around, and she's like, I watched his little legs like flail to the side. And she was like, in that moment, I lost all respect for him. And I'm like, I get it. Like, I get I'm like, it's your fault. Like, you shouldn't have done that, like you fucked yourself over, but I get it. Like, they didn't look good as a unit, you know what I mean? I saw them kiss once. It was like it was like the dwarves trying to conquer the mountain in Lord of the Rings, you know. But he was a great guy, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:12

Yeah, that's what matters. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:14

What's the oldest you would date?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:16

Like 10 years older than me.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:18

So 32. Mm-hmm. So if somebody's 35. Not 35, not 35. Not 35. 35. 34 is the limit. Why is 35 and no go?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:29

Well, even 34 is like a little much for me, but I have a celebrity crush and he's 34.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

Keep him options open.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:39

So you're so you're it's interesting to me because all these traits and the limits that you've put on, you know, high Tom Holland because the celebrity hype. The age of the guy's the celebrity. That's funny. Um okay, so 35 too old, but then he'll turn 30. Well, I guess it's it's 12 years, is basically what you're going for. So, because for as long as he keeps on. So then what if he gets married? Then is it gonna go back to 10?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:17

Who is it? Maybe say his name.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:19

I'm not gonna say no.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:20

Why is it embarrassing?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:21

No, because manifestation needs no manifestation needs to be low-key. Oh, you're key. Yeah, the money. Like, I'm not the ruiner.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:34

I see, I see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:34

I'm the girl's girl.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:36

I see it.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:36

If Tom Holland came to you and said, oh my god, um, I uh I you know I didn't know that my soulmate was here. You know, everything with Zendaya is like, you know, gone to shit. Like, I don't a relationship is not good, but I want to be with you.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:54

I saw you on the unattainable show, and I just thought, man, this girl is now if they're broken up, then yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:01

But if they're still in a relationship, he said if he said he he'll say, he'll say, I'll break up with her for you. No, no, no. You'll say no. No, I'm not doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:09

No, absolutely no.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:12

What about this other guy? If he's with someone, no, because it's like it's all about karma.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:19

If I do this, like, then I get negative points and something bad will happen with me eventually. For sure. Uh-huh. I don't mess with karma.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:30

I don't know if I believe in karma. No, where's the karma for my mom for the haircut she made me wear in middle school? She's just having this great life, she's just living her life. Everything's great. I'm like, when is the karma gonna come raining down upon you for that?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:46

I don't know. Um you say you want a nice guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:55

You know who I want? I just realized it recently. I want a person who's on the same soul frequency level as me. That's like my that's what I want.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:06

Soul the same soul frequency.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:08

Because it's like it's the best way to describe it. Because it's like all this like moral compass and beliefs. What I like want and have, I want the person like well, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:19

It's called compatibility. Yeah, you want to be compatible with the person that you're with, you wanna have the same value. Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:29

I came up with this. I came up with it. I'm gonna steal it.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:31

I'm gonna tell people that you that's funny. Um how do you feel about your partner? Um, first of all, I'm assuming you're not into so so is monogamy the only type of relationship you want? Do you know what monogamy is?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:48

Like one partner? Yes, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:51

Okay. So no open relationships, no any of those types. And what's what's the reason?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:04

Um I think because in my head I have this image of like perfect fairy tale love and like soulmates, right? So if you're if you're even thinking about someone else then you're not my soulmate. Like, right? And it's just like people are saying that it's like a delusional belief and that it's not right and there's no people like that. But I believe that there is because I don't want nothing more than the kind of person I am, and if I exist, then a guy like me should exist too. Like, you know what I mean? Does it make sense?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:36

It's it's biologically inaccurate. So, you know, what you're describing is is is is because you're denying the fact that biology exists and and men are wired different than women, and that's just that's just the way it is, you know, and you're trying to fight this corner. And so if if you're if you're thinking this in your head, right, you're you live in this dreamland of like thinking, and sure, it is possible, you know, that you'll you'll meet somebody who would tell you this. That is very, you know, but but in order for that to be true, that person would be suppressing their natural thoughts and just hiding them.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:19

And having self-control, yeah. That's that's the key.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:22

Yeah, but there's also a um this is this is this is where it kind of like gets to when somebody says you know something like that, which is and I I I don't know you well enough to you know assume this, but it's sort of saying like men sh are expected to accept women's hormones, while women are not expected to accept man's hormones.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:57

Well, my hormones can make me a little sad and

Gender Roles, Effort, And Reciprocity

SPEAKER_02 1:22:00

angry at you at the times, but it will not make me cheat on you. It's like it's weird to compare those things.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:06

No, they're just a set of feelings. You being angry and yelling at me for no reason, yeah, because of your hormones being all out of whack would make me feel a certain way. Whereas also compare that, but but it is, but but because at the end of the day, these are all feelings. A person who is okay or and is like in an open relationship, for example, just does not possess the same level feelings of like jealousy and possessiveness towards their partner, then somebody else might. These are all just feelings.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:39

They also might not love them like a thousand percent as the love that I want and hope to feel. It's like I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:46

That's a bullshit concept. You're making that up because in order for you to prove that, you're attaching a thing to it and saying that love makes a person want this person more than everything else. But if that were true, then you loving the other person would have to also be true in the fact that you would have to love them more than you love yourself. But that's not true because you love yourself more. And if you love yourself more, you love your own desires more. That's the reason why you broke up with your ex.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:17

Wait, so you're saying that if someone cheats on you and they're like, oh, it's my hormones, you'd be like, Oh, okay, well, I'm accepting your hormones.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:24

Okay, let's talk about cheating for a second. Yeah. Yeah. What's the difference between cheating and lying?

SPEAKER_06 1:23:30

Well, lying could be about like anything, cheating specifically, like sexually.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:35

Okay. Um, if if somebody lies to you, right? Your ex or your your wife, let's say, you're married, yeah. Your wife lies to you and takes $5,000 a year out of your bank account. Okay. Yeah. And goes and buys a bag for herself. Okay. Um she never tells you, you see the $5,000 gone, and then and then you ask her, hey, what happened to this $5,000? And she's like, I don't know. I have no idea. And then later you find out that she lied to you. Yeah. Are you gonna are you gonna break up with her? Are you gonna get a divorce?

SPEAKER_06 1:24:11

I maybe I probably would break up with her. Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:14

What why is the reason? What why would you do that?

SPEAKER_06 1:24:16

Because she stole $5,000 from me. And this is betrayal. And then I can't trust her.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:20

Exactly. The set the set of emotion that you've created, the set of values that you for yourself created, is that you don't want this person to lie to you and steal from you, and that's your line. That's crossing the line. Yeah. Yeah. If she lies to you and takes your car and goes um and goes and like buys you a gift. Okay. But then you ask her where you're going, and she's like, oh, I'm just gonna go see my friend.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:53

Oh, but she's surprising me.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:55

But she's surprising you. Yeah. Yeah. But she still lied to you.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:59

Yeah, but come on.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:01

Now you're excusing the lie. Yeah, because there is a because the intention at that point is what matters here.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:08

But there's forgiveness. Because the because at that point, the value that you have assigned to this lie is very different than the value that you assigned to the other lie. Of course. Right? So just like that, the feelings that we assign is a personal choice. Somebody else would suggest that lying of any kind might not be okay. Somebody else might say, Hey, there is forgiveness in some lies.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:33

If she stole $5,000 from me, I'll try to sit down and be like, hey, why did you do that? And she'll say, Well, I was afraid. I really wanted this bag, whatever. Or maybe I just stole this money because I wanted to give it to my family and I was very embarrassed. Right? The reason always changes the perspective. When somebody gives you the reason, you're I either become forgiving or you become hateful. But those feelings are feelings that you're in control of. Yeah. And so just like anything else, cheating is the same. If somebody cheats on you, yeah, and you say to them, Why did you cheat on me? And they said, Because we haven't slept together for a year. To one person, that might be a reasonable thing to say. They'd be like, Well, you know, I understand. I didn't give you what you needed, so you went and you cheated on me. To somebody else, might be a line that they would never cross. And they'll just say, you know what? It's over. It doesn't matter what I did. So it's all about how we feel about it. And everybody's way of dealing with what they feel about certain things and their line and their red line is different. And that difference is what should give somebody a pause into thinking if how I feel and what I'm how I'm reacting to something reasonable or not.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:50

Yeah, but there's an overton window for this stuff. I mean, if a girl cheated on me and I'm like, why did you cheat? And she was like, Oh, I wanted to surprise you. I'd be like, go fuck yourself. Like, you know, like there's like a level of like, okay, well, like, yeah, technically, I suppose all of morality is relative, and like it's just like whatever opinion you have or feelings you have on something, but there's like a normal set of like unwritten rules that everybody kind of knows. And if you break those rules, you know what you're doing. Unless you have a specific conversation with your partner and you're like, hey, I want to be able to cheat on you, is that okay? Oh, sure, as long as I can cheat on you too, and then you know we'll have this dysfunctional relationship.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:30

Well, yeah but that's not cheating if you're in an open that that conversation would be meaning an open relationship. Yeah. But if you're in a monogamous relationship and somebody cheats on you, yeah, and then and then if if if your wife comes to you and says, Hey, I'm so sorry I made a mistake. I love you so much, I would never do this to you again. Right? And they're trying to ask for forgiveness and they're trying to go back to the place that that you once were in. Yeah. Is it not gonna make you take a second and think to yourself,

Height, Age Gaps, And Compatibility

SPEAKER_05 1:28:00

okay, am I gonna throw away, you know, let's say you have kids, whatever, this whole marriage and my whole life over this one mistake that somebody made.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:08

Yeah, sure. There's levels. There's level to it to it.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:11

Yeah, exactly. So so it's all about the person's intention, it's all about how they're gonna react and what they're gonna say, and you know, if they're asking for forgiveness, if they're not, what their reasoning is. There's just there's just such a wide range of why people do the things they do. And so I I it it's you know, when when you assign love to things, and when you say if somebody loves you, then they won't do this, this, and this, and this. That takes away the the the the truth of the fact that human beings make mistakes and human beings do things that would come from a place that you might not be in the same space of at that point. Because circumstances change and perspectives change, and the truth for you might be very different than the truth for somebody else. So the love that you describe might not be the same love that your partner might be describing. Because the love that you're giving that person is very different than the love that they're giving you.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:18

So that's why I want someone who's like a mirror of what I want.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:24

I'm so great. I think you can think about it.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:27

Perhaps that is the more most narcissistic narcissistic thing that you're gonna be right, but I do not deny it, which means I can get out. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. Uh well. Yeah. Thank you so much for your honesty and openness. You're great. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you. And I wish you nothing but luck, happiness, and finding. I I think you're great for the record. I think I think you remind me of um a lot of the the the things that you first of all, like my my wife's sister, she uh well, she's now 16, but like when I met her, she was 14 years old. And um you kind of remind me, like when you were talking about when you were 14 years old, kind of reminded me of like her and like her kind of maturity at that, you know, at that age. And she's also very mature. She recently went to France and you know by herself and just like kind of like you know, went around like seeing the uh seeing Paris and all that. But um, so so so you know, I I do kind of connect with um with how you are. Um my wife is also like very mature, and so I think you kind of though some of the things that you said are are things that I've also heard her say before. And so culturally, I kind of you know think that um you're you're very um you know, you have depth to you and you're you're a very good person. So I have no doubt that you're gonna find somebody who's you know who's great. Um however, I think never stop learning about yourself and never stop searching to grow as much as you possibly can because that's the only way you're gonna find the thing that you want the most.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:06

So true.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:08

To the audience, do the same. Thanks for watching. We'll see you later.