Dating Without Situationships: Johanaa’s Boundaries Ft. Johanaa - Ep.175

Special thanks to Johanaa for being a part of this episode of Unattainable Podcast Show 

We welcome Joanna, a realtor who left Amazon and healthcare tracks to build a client-first career, and we test her firm dating standards against modern expectations. The conversation heats up around monogamy, open relationships, and what “respect” really looks like when biology, culture, and commitment collide.

• leaving Amazon and medical assisting for real estate and entrepreneurship
• why clear dating standards beat situationships
• defining cheating across physical, emotional, and digital lines
• chivalry cues and how early behavior predicts patterns
• jealousy, insecurity, and trust without surveillance
• monogamy vs open rules, expectations, and control
• forgiveness after infidelity and when to walk away
• non-negotiables: ambition over looks, respect over vibes

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Transcript

Cold Open: Dating Lines In The Sand

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, my name is Joanna Franco. I am a realtor and I am a I know I want to be an entrepreneur. I don't believe in situationships, so either we're together or we're not. In an open relationship, it's like what what even is the point of being in a relationship if you're gonna be with you know other people? That's the whole point of an open relationship, right? Because you want to experience other people while still coming home to your person. Cheating, I don't know about cheating, cheating, but it's like disrespectful to you. In a monogamous relationship, people are restricted. I'm not gonna sleep with other people to respect my person. I'm not going to do anything with anybody else. As long as a broke guy is ambitious. If I'm not gonna be happy in either one, then by even why even bother to be with them? I don't want the father of my children to stay working at McDonald's. I would forgive.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

You would forgive you don't need access to their phone. You're not gonna be checking it. You're not gonna okay. Have you ever why are you smiling? I feel like there's something.

Welcome And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_05 1:01

Welcome to Unattainable. Glad to have you with us. I'm your host, Zach Evans, here with my co-host Mohammed Moley. And today we got a special guest on the show for you guys. This is Joanna. Joanna, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience, your name, what you do, and your star sign.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Hi, my name is Joanna Franco. I am a realtor and I am a Pisces.

SPEAKER_05 1:22

Pisces, the best sign. Yes. Proven by science, numerous studies. Yes. It checks out.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Even though it's I don't believe it, but yes, it's definitely the best one.

SPEAKER_05 1:32

Awesome. All right.

Joanna’s Path From MA To Realtor

SPEAKER_05 1:33

So uh tell us a little bit about your upbringing, um, how you got into real estate, that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

So I started real estate when I was 20. So it um, well, right after high school, I was like, what am I gonna do? You know, I didn't know what I was gonna do, where my life was gonna go. So after high school, I was like, maybe I'm gonna maybe I'm just meant to be a registered nurse. So I started with becoming a medical assistant. Um, and once I completed everything, like uh the schooling and the externship, I realized that it's not for me at all. So um, I think just I don't like to be in an office. Like, well, I mean, in my job, I am in an office, but I'm out in the field, I'm talking to new people, new clients, and like building that relationship with them. So it's much different than you know, being in an office and then um taking people's vitals, their weight, their height, and stuff like that. It just wasn't for me. Paperwork, like that type of paperwork, it was not for me. So I quit that and then I went to a a warehouse job. I worked at Amazon for about two years. So obviously, you know, who wants to work at Amazon for the rest of their lives?

SPEAKER_03 2:55

So I'd be like, I don't want to work in an office, I want to work in a warehouse. Yeah, that's what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

I just well, it was just like Amazon was kind of just like for me to figure out like what I'm gonna do. So um during that time, I was like, I know I want to be an entrepreneur, but like I like, you know, making money, I like talking to people, so I was like, what am I gonna do? So I just thought, you know, real estate, because my dream was always to buy my parents their house. So I um just started doing the courses, and then um it all went well. I passed the test on the first try. The test is not that easy, so I I was very determined. I was like, I'm gonna do this, and I passed it, and four or five years later, I'm here now. So it's been a journey. Um, it's not easy, real estate is very challenging, but it I feel like it really um makes you uh grow mentally, so it's really made me mature a lot.

SPEAKER_05 3:56

Was it uh scary making the jump from hey, I got this consistent income to I'm jumping off the ledge here and now I gotta make my own thing happen?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Honestly, well I uh at Amazon like the last like um year I year or the last six months, I um did part-time. So uh and then I lived with my parents.

SPEAKER_05 4:19

So you had no expenses, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

No, so but anything that I would make, I would always like you know help out with bills and stuff like that. So it wasn't that scary. Um, but little by little I just started picking it up, and now it's thank God everything is

Taking The Leap Into Entrepreneurship

SPEAKER_00 4:36

going well.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

Okay, so let me ask you this because I hear a lot of people all the time, yeah. I want to start my own business, I want to become an entrepreneur, I want to make my own money, I don't want to have a boss, I don't want the nine to five. And then it's like two years later, I'm talking to him again. Yeah, I don't want to, I would blah blah blah. And I'm like, you you haven't even taken step one, right? So, like, what was it about either your situation or your personality or your upbringing that made you go like, hey, this isn't for me, like I need to make this happen. Like in real estate or um just like in the beginning, or yeah, more so real estate, but I guess anything else too, if you have anything else.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

So I just well, the reason why real estate popped up in my head was because I'm a people person. I like to, you know, I mentioned I like to make um new connections, and I knew it wasn't gonna be easy easy in the beginning, so I was like, real estate, you talk to people, you make money, you're your own boss. So I was like, let me try it. So I tried it and yeah, it's been working out so far.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

Interesting. Yeah, I had a situation because I'm like you, I I wouldn't don't like the boss thing. I used to work at Jimmy John's back in college. Oh, and the only reason I took that job was there was a girl who worked at the ice cream shop next door. And you liked her. I had a huge crush on her.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Oh, it's always those.

SPEAKER_05 5:55

So for lunch, every day, I would, you know, you get a free sub for lunch, um, and I would cut mine in half, and then I would give her half, and then I'd eat my half, and she'd give me some free ice cream, and you know, I'd chat her up a little bit. So after like three months of this, because I had no game back then, I didn't know how to talk to chicks. Um, I finally like work up the courage to like ask her on a date.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:15

And

First Steps And Early Wins In Real Estate

SPEAKER_05 6:16

she said yes. So now I'm like, okay, dope. We get off at seven o'clock tomorrow. Meet me outside of Jimmy John's. I'm gonna take you to the movies. That was my plan.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

That's nice.

SPEAKER_05 6:25

So the next day, I'm super fucking excited. I'm like making subs, but like my mind is like on this date, you know what I mean? Like, what am I gonna say? I'm gonna kiss her. Like, what do we do after the movie? You're nervous, a little bit, yeah, a little bit. And seven o'clock hits, and I see her standing there outside the big like glass windows, and she kind of smiles at me and like waves, and I, you know, get this big grin on my face. And as I'm about to walk out of the store, my manager pokes his head around the corner, and he's like, Zach, before you leave, remember you got gum duty today, and I was like, Fuck. So, gum duty was once a week, one person had to like get on your hands and knees with a scraper, and you know, people put the gum on the bottom of the tables. You had to scrape the gum off of the chairs and the tables. And I'm looking at this girl, and I'm like, I can't have her seeing me crawling around on my hands and knees, like it's bad for my brand, you know?

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Right.

SPEAKER_05 7:24

So I like look at my manager, I was like, look, I will come in 6 a.m. tomorrow, I will get it done before the shit the store opens.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

But let me go to my date.

SPEAKER_05 7:32

Yeah, I'm like, I've been working on this girl for three months, and we get in this argument about it, and then finally he's like, You either scrape the gum or you're

Zach’s “Gum Duty” Story And Mindset Shift

SPEAKER_05 7:40

fired. And that's the day I got fired from Jimmy.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Oh, I would too.

SPEAKER_05 7:45

But but that, like, it was the moment that I really felt like, hey Zach, like there's two kinds of people in this world. There's the people who own the store, and there's people who scrape the gum. And it's like, who do you want to be? And the next day, that's when I started my YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Oh, so it all worked out. Hey, that's a blessing in disguise.

SPEAKER_05 8:04

Blessing in disguise. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

So, what happened to her now?

SPEAKER_05 8:07

Uh, that's the thing, that's even worse. So, so I'm I'm fired, right? Walk out the door, and I'm kind of like mad about being fired, but you know, you kind of feel like the man. I'm like walking out, like, yeah, fuck this shit. You know what I mean? I'm like feeling like the man. So I take this girl to the movies. After the movies, we go to 7-Eleven, we get those big slushies, and then we just her car's back at you know the store, so I pull up back in front of Jimmy John's, and we're just you know, slipping the slushies, talking in the car for a couple hours and stuff. And finally, at one point, I like going for the kiss, and she like turns her cheek and she goes, Did you just try to kiss me? And I was like, Yeah. And she lit this is so embarrassing. She literally went like this, like bopped my nose, and she was like, Silly, we're just friends. And I remember after she left, just looking at that Jimmy John sign and just thinking, I literally just got fired for a friend fucking friend zone, and I like the level of just like not I don't know if anger is the right word, but just like feeling disappointment, discontent with everything, and that's like that's when I went on my phone, I said 5 45 a.m. I wanted to be up, so I'm working by 6 a.m. And that like that shit fucking powered me.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Wow, yeah. I think that's definitely sometimes things happen for a reason. I mean, you got friend zone, but like where you are now, yeah. You know, so it worked out, it worked out, yeah. I'm sure that you know it it's paying off that friend zone is paying off.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

I I I I think um dark side manifestation works better than you know. People say, Oh, imagine your future if like imagine when you already have the money, the feeling in your hands, blah blah blah blah blah. Nah, imagine when you're broke because you didn't make it, and you're driving your Honda Corolla and to Applebee's for half price Tuesday, and you bring in the coupon book. Imagine that and then get motivated and then fucking work.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Exactly, yeah. Oh, that's I don't think I've had to um I don't think anything has changed in my life for one person. I think I honestly don't even have like um you know everything is just like my family, like I'm just like my family, my family, me. Um, but for one person, I feel like I've never, you know, stopped anything for a man, um, did you know anything different, um, talked differently, walked differently, did anything differently. It was just mostly like you know, my family and myself.

SPEAKER_05 10:49

How has your your dating history been up to this point?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Um well I've been single for since it's been since like 2022. Wow, three years. Is it four? No, three, three. Three? Okay, then it maybe 2021.

SPEAKER_05 11:07

2021, okay. Yeah, so it's been a while.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yeah, yeah, it's been a while. Um I've only had three relationships, um, but nothing, I mean nothing too serious. Like just, you know, I I'm just so focused, and I just never really have like any relationship like drama and any stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 11:32

No toxic relationships. No, I've never been in love. You have somebody, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Yeah, well, actually, I took that back. So um in high school, yeah, I did have a pretty um toxic relationship, but I was um 14 at the time, so I wasn't, you know, I didn't know what I was doing.

SPEAKER_05 11:52

It doesn't even count. I mean, that's toxic. Like he passed a note to my best friend.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

No, actually, no. Wait, but it was just um I don't want to say I don't want to say too much, but he was just like um I guess I don't even know you don't want to say too much about a relationship you had in middle school? No, that was high school, so it was same difference, okay. Well, it was like freshman sophomore year, but um yeah, I think I've I only knew him for like five days when we started dating dating, but um it was in it only lasted like about a year and four months, but he had he would get really angry, had anger issues, and um I just so he was abusive. Um yeah, uh huh. He was, he was. So obviously, uh you know, I would be like um he would you know brainwash me and I'm like, oh, you

Dating History, Timelines, And Standards

SPEAKER_00 12:57

know, this is what it's a relationship is supposed to be like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:01

So you don't know any different.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Yeah, so I was like, maybe this is what it is, so I'm just gonna stick by it, and until I was like, no.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Were you telling anyone?

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Um, though, school knew.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

I mean, they the way you school knew that he was abusive towards you or towards just in general, not abusive, but just like his anger, like it would show.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Sure. Yeah, his anger and stuff.

SPEAKER_05 13:27

So by the school, you mean like everyone around the school or like the school board? Like no, everyone around the school, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yeah, yeah, it was but your parents didn't know. Um, they I didn't tell them everything, but they knew that he was a very good guy. So, but yeah, that's why.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

How did you end it?

SPEAKER_00 13:49

How did I end it? We were on and off at this point. I don't even remember how exactly I ended it, but I was just like, yeah, this is this is it. Like, this is you know too much for me.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

So um and then after that, how many relationships did you have? I guess starting at 18 years old.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Starting at 18, um I ended one at 18, but after 18, um, I had one, but it only lasted about eight months. But it was How old are you again? I'm 24.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

You're 24. Okay. So for the past six years, you've had one relationship. That was for six years. You said you passed the real estate test one time?

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah. Wait. I'm just saying what math are you mathing?

SPEAKER_02 14:43

You said you're I don't understand. You said you're 24 years old. Yes. Yes. So from 18 to 24, that would be six years.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

From from my yeah. But I had one relationship.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

That would be that math. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

But wait, what does my my license have to do with that?

SPEAKER_02 15:02

No, I said I said you've been in one relationship since for the past six years.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Oh, right, right, right. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

That was my question. License.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

No, but I was 19, 1920 at the time. I said after 18 I w I um got with my last boyfriend.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Right. So, and then you said you've been single for the past four years.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

About, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

So, which makes the past six years only one relationship, theoretically. Or has it been yeah. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

It's like, wait. Yeah, yeah. No, okay, I get it. No.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

I'm confused why I'm calculating your life.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

No, yeah, I should start thinking doing that timeline because it's been a while.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Okay, so just one relationship the past six years. And that was for six months, you said.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Uh eight.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Eight months. Yeah. Okay. And so how did that go?

SPEAKER_00 15:59

He was very different from you know, his personality personality was just he was like very like mellow, like very um quiet, I guess, shy, and I was like, and I'm a person that likes to, you know, um, I'm a family person. I feel like he kind of wasn't. He kind of just wanted to hang out with me.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

How old was he?

SPEAKER_00 16:23

He at the time he was 30.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

No, 27. I'm sorry, it's been so long. I he was 27.

SPEAKER_05 16:34

But for Mo it's very important. The dates, the timeline, yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

I well, it makes a difference on like the maturity of the person, you know, what they're like and what their priorities are and all these things, it makes a difference. So if you know, if if he was 30 versus he was 27, there's a massive difference between a 27-year-old and a 30-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

You'd think so?

SPEAKER_05 16:56

Maybe, but I think it just depends on the person.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah, like sure, generally speaking, sure, but generally speaking, there's a big shift for somebody who turns 30. And as soon as they turn 30, life becomes a lot more serious than people who are in their 20s.

SPEAKER_04 17:11

Really?

SPEAKER_05 17:12

I don't think they're pretty close to age where it's like, oh, yeah. It's like bada being like, okay, now you're a you know, serious person.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

No, people tend to take their 30s a lot more serious, generally speaking, because most of the time 30 is known to be a oh shit, um like getting actually old versus when you're in your 20s, nobody says you're old.

SPEAKER_05 17:39

Yeah, but I think it's just a long grading area that you know happens over. I mean, who do you think's more mature? You at 27 or Claudio at 30?

SPEAKER_02 17:49

All right, Claudio at 89 is still gonna be less mature than a 24-year-old kid. One of our friends. One of our good friends. But no, generally speaking, people do tend to have the desire to take it more seriously. Now, whether they do or not, that's a completely different conversation.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

I feel like 25 and 30 is like a that's when you can say, you know, a 30-year-old would think that way more than a 25-year-old. And 27, I feel like it's in between, so I don't think it would be a big difference, 27 and 30.

SPEAKER_05 18:18

Yeah, because 27, you're already like on your way to the 30s.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah, you're in your late 20s, so okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

So yeah, I mean, I okay, sure. So so so then he was he was kind of mature, you think, or he wasn't mature, you're saying?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Um I think that it's n I guess it's not really the maturity, it's just his personality. Like he was just I feel like he didn't really have the personality, the same personality or something that would resemble something,

Boundaries: Chivalry, Jealousy, And Red Flags

SPEAKER_00 18:53

you know, like me.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

So he was more of an introvert. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

There you go. He was an introvert.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Um and you didn't like that he was an introvert. No. Why did you date him to begin with?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Because I was 19.

unknown 19:07

I had to.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

How did you meet him?

SPEAKER_00 19:09

It was at work.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Okay. Yeah. Amazon. Uh-huh. So he was working doing the same thing that you were doing, or was he above you?

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Uh he was above me, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

He was above you.

SPEAKER_05 19:21

And then his name was Jeff Bezos. I wish.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

I was just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Okay, and how did he ask you out?

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Um, it was on my birthday. It was after we had dinner with his brother and his brother's girlfriend, and then we were in the car, and before driving off, he had asked me if I wanted to be his girlfriend.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

How many times have you guys had dated at that point?

SPEAKER_00 19:50

At that point, it was probably oh well, I didn't even count that. But it was probably about maybe like three times.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Three times.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

And then Mo is asking you for all the numbers. Make sure you come to the scriptures how many times do you date? What was his age? What was the year he was born?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

You've been in one relationship for the past six years. This shouldn't be rocket science.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Well, it's because when I just, you know, forget about a person, I forget about them. Like, I'm just like, dates don't even matter to me anymore. Nothing matters to me anymore. I move on.

SPEAKER_05 20:22

This happened to me too. Like, like girls will be like, Oh, it's our anniversary. I'm like, Okay, like when does it even count? Like the first time we saw each other, the first date we went on, the first time I said, You want to be my girlfriend?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I think that matters. Like the those little things. Like, well, when you're with that person, it's like, hey, um, well, I mean, maybe not to the T, but just like, hey, you remember we went to this place on your birthday, or remember we we went um here on this day. That'd be nice, but not like not like hey, this is the day I gave you your first kick, the first kiss at this time. This is the date um that we first hung out. I think that's I wouldn't know that either.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

I I just never know when to start the anniversary date.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

It's like the anniversary date is the first day you guys meet. That's always the anniversary date. People tend to have this thing of like, but how do you even remember that?

SPEAKER_05 21:18

Because like, let's say you meet somebody and she comes in the friend group, and then like you start really like talking to her like three months later. Then it's like you're gonna remember the first fucking random party that we had that she I think like what if she like met and you met her for like two seconds, and then like you didn't even talk to her, you didn't talk to her like two weeks later. Now you talk to her. Is that the date?

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Like the rules are based on intention. Okay, so so it would be the first the anniversary date of anybody in any relationship should be the first time you had the intention of being with that person. So whether it's taking them on a date, asking them out on a date, meeting them, and then you know, feeling like you have romantic intentions towards that person. If you just met somebody randomly somewhere and then meet them again two months later, meet them again three times, three months later, and then you decide you want to take them on a date, your first date would be your anniversary date.

SPEAKER_05 22:12

Yeah, but even that, it's like, what if what if the first time you take them out, you're like, Yeah, I'm trying to fuck, but like, that's it. Does that count as your anniversary? I think, or is it like the moment in your brain something clicks where you're like, now I want to date this person?

SPEAKER_02 22:27

I think the nuance should be then at that point, the first time you ask the person you want to be in a relationship with them.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Uh yeah, wouldn't the date count when it's like, do you want to be my girlfriend? Do you want to, you know, I should be able to.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Sure, for for people who are uncertain, I met my wife. I knew she was going to be my wife the moment I met her. And so that's our anniversary date.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Isn't everybody uncertain though when they meet someone? Because it's like they couldn't.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Most people who have la who lack self-awareness do have that problem.

SPEAKER_05 22:54

Yeah, but to be fair, Mo, this is the second person you've been certain would be your wife. So you can't really use that as an example. That's not that's not particularly I've heard this story before. The second one worked out. Okay, so it worked out too. Yeah, but you can't say the first one was like, oh, I knew for a fact she was gonna be my wife, and then she wasn't, and now the second one was.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

So like you're one for two, which is like pretty good batting average, but but the first one I also wasn't a long-term relationship with. It wasn't like I met her, and then like six months later we weren't too together anymore. Yeah, sure.

Height, Ambition, And Marriage Values

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Six years is a very long time. Yeah, so I don't I mean, in some in some uh states that's common law marriage. So give me what the fucking uh the uh and also not to mention I didn't want to marry her. Yeah, so I mean it wasn't like I didn't want to marry her, yeah, and I just like made it up. Um, you know, things changed. Yeah. As they do.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

I've I was always used to like the day that they ask you to be with them is the day that the anniversary starts. Yeah, but not the first day.

SPEAKER_05 23:59

Do people still do that? Like, do they sit down and like, will you be my girlfriend?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

I thought so.

SPEAKER_05 24:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

You don't you guys don't do that anymore? I feel like it just slowly Well, you I feel like you have to have that conversation, though it's uh you guys are always hanging out, but what if one person's like, oh, you know, I'm not into this person, um, and the other person is? So I feel like you have to have, you know, at one point that type of conversation, like, hey, what are we?

SPEAKER_05 24:26

So in LA we have this thing called situationships.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

I've heard of those.

SPEAKER_05 24:31

We'll do jobs.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, I don't believe in situationships,

Monogamy vs Open Relationships: The Debate Begins

SPEAKER_00 24:35

so either we're together or we're not.

SPEAKER_05 24:37

No, you're the first person who said that that I actually believe. Really? Because you've actually only had you know three relationships. Everybody else, like, I don't do situationships, and then a week later they're like, Yeah, there's this guy, I'm like talking to him, but also talking to this other guy from Hinge.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Yeah, no, I know. I don't believe in those. I think it's like either we're gonna be together or we're not. I don't waste time with you know with situationships.

SPEAKER_05 25:01

Okay, so I want to get back into your dating history.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

So what dating history that honestly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Mo woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. Mo's like came for vibe.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

He's after me.

SPEAKER_05 25:19

Um, do you think because your first relationship was toxic, do you think because of that you are not allowing yourself to fall in love, or do you think it's irrelevant?

SPEAKER_00 25:31

I've had people ask me, they're like, have you been heartbroken? Like, why are you so like you know, why haven't you been in a relationship? And honestly, I don't think I've been heartbroken. I I think I'm just focusing on myself, and if you know, the person comes, then they come and you know, I'm not gonna look for it, I'm not gonna, and as of now, there isn't somebody that I've actually liked, like, you know, or somebody that I think, oh, this could be my future husband, you know. It's definitely not a heartbreak, and a lot of people ask me that, they're like, is have you been heartbroken or what's going on? And I'm like, no, it's just I just like to be single, and I just like to um, you know, focus on my work and uh my goals. Then later on, I you know maybe will be a little more open.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Are people asking you out?

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Yes, they are asking you out.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

When was the last time somebody asked you out?

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Today.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

What did you say?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Um, I said I said yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

The anniversary starts now. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

No, I don't know, because the anniversary starts when they say, Will you be my girlfriend? Is that like an old school thing or something? No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

That's totally fine. That could be an anniversary.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Because I feel like nowadays it's very like, you know, like, oh, we're hanging out together, we're going on dates, okay, we're together. But it's like that conversation never was, you know, established. That conversation never started.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

No, I mean, my wife asked me that question. She was like, so like I wanted to ask you and be like, are we like exclusive? Like, what's happening? Was like, is it not obvious? And she was like, um, I I don't know, you just don't know these days. Then I was like, Well, you're my girlfriend, so yes.

SPEAKER_05 27:20

No, but that's a fair question. Yeah, no, of course.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Yeah, I think that's reasonable.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

So that's not when your anniversary started.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

No, no, no. Anniversary started the day we met.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Yes. So that would be the anniversary, because that's the day we met, and then that day I had the intent. No, it's just I saw her, I I thought she was gonna be my wife. She's my wife, and that's it. You know, it's really not that complicated.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

I guess to each their own, yeah. I mean I mean, yeah, I've yeah, it's something well, not new to me, but I know some people work that way, which is you know sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

It's so so the the guy that you're gonna go on a date with, how do you how where is like how did you meet him? Is he just like slid into your DMs? Okay, sound sound like it. And then when was the last time you went on a date before?

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Ooh. Um eight years ago? Maybe I don't know. I couldn't even more dates.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Like approximately approximately like two weeks ago, a month ago, six months ago, it's been months, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

I think it was during the summer.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Okay, so like a few months ago. Yeah, okay, cool. And why'd you say yes to this guy?

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Because sometimes I have those moments where I'm like, okay, I need to start going out because I'm gonna be 25. So I'm like, I should just, you know, start meeting people.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Do you have any pets? No. Okay. So you just don't want to become a cat lady.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Oh, I don't like cats. Okay. I don't like cats. I like dogs, but I'm sorry. I don't like cats. I don't like cats.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

So the the the what is it that you think makes this guy attractive? Is it is it just that you you said yes because you feel like you should go out and about, or is there something that actually makes him a good candidate?

SPEAKER_00 29:15

I don't really go based off of people's appearance, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Um does that mean that he's not good looking or no, I would say he is.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Okay. But I just it's mostly like that doesn't have much of a value to you. Wait, say that again?

SPEAKER_02 29:35

It's it it doesn't have any value for you.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Yeah, um, well no, I mean it's there, but it's not like my priority. Like I'm not like, oh, this guy is so good looking, let me, you know, say yes. But if I have like a genuine conversation with somebody, because there's a difference between guys that just want to sleep with you and guys that are actually intentional and genuine. So for the most part, he hasn't said, you know, anything inappropriate or anything of that sort. No. Oh, people do people still do that too?

SPEAKER_02 30:07

As far as I know.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

I've been hearing it.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

I haven't gotten one in a while. Well, besides one time, somebody randomly sent me one. It was a video, and I it was so random. I he said good morning.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

That should be a felony.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

It should. I videos are just yeah, and it he was in slides too, so I it was um, yeah, but I just um I blocked it. I just I'm just like that's weird. I I I'm surprised that people still do that, but um, yeah, so no, he hasn't sent me any of that. He's been genuine, so yeah, we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Give it a shot. Let's see what happens. Yeah. Um, did you break up with your rat last relationship or did he break up with you?

SPEAKER_00 30:54

I did.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

You broke up with him? And the reason being he was just boring and an introvert.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Yeah, I don't know what day it was, but I did.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Did you have a conversation with him about why you were breaking up? Or did you just be like, oh, we're done. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Um was he surprised? Well, besides now I remember. Um, besides the fact that he was an introvert, I I cannot be with somebody that's insecure and jealous. So he was like that, and I told him, you know what, I I'm sorry, I can't be with somebody that's you know insecure.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

So what was he telling you that was making him insecure and jealous?

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Um he was just jealous, I guess. Like it just maybe like if anybody at work would

Commitment, Happiness, And Changing Partners

SPEAKER_00 31:40

um like I'm trying to remember an instance that happened. Um my gosh, it's been so long. I think I guess it was just like I guess the people I would talk to. Um and I remember one time I was uh getting my hair done, and I wouldn't answer his calls because I was busy getting my hair done, and he was literally um, I was like on the phone, I was like, hello, hello, hello, and he was just listening to me to see if I'm like with somebody or and it was my hair guy, and then he was like, Oh, maybe it's not going through or something, and he was just listening, and I was like, I was like, hello. I it sounded like I I sounded dumb just saying hello, hello, and he was just listening, so he's like breathing in the yeah, all mad, and yeah, I was like, you know what, I'm done.

SPEAKER_05 32:33

That's it, you gotta stop being dudes on Amazon.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yeah, well, that was I was 19. I was like, never again, never again.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Yeah, did you ever uh fear for your life?

SPEAKER_00 32:45

With him, no, no, I don't think I did.

SPEAKER_05 32:50

Okay, so here's what I'm curious about. So it seems like you have kind of pretty um like you have standards for who you date. Obviously, you're pretty picky if you haven't dated anybody in you know five four or five years, whatever it's like.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

But that's reasonable, right?

SPEAKER_05 33:05

I think that's reasonable.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Okay, I think it's I think everybody should sorry, I think everybody should be picky, even guys.

SPEAKER_05 33:10

Yeah, you know, guys should be picky, so yeah, you know, I don't blame anybody for being picky. I don't either, but then my question is so you said you like guys who don't send inappropriate things to you, but you have to have like other things because like there's a lot of guys who are like very nice, would love to date someone like you, you know, but obviously you haven't pulled the trigger on any of those guys.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Yes. Um so I guess they I I just I guess I just you know what attracts me is somebody, you know, I see what they post, I see how they talk to me. It obviously has to come off as respectful. Um, but if yeah, just I guess if there's just saying any if any um little thing about anything inappropriate, I'm like, yeah, that's stay away from me.

SPEAKER_05 34:02

But there's gotta be more that you look for more than that because like I guess just every guy is just saying weird shit.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

What okay? So when we hang out, I see everything, you know. Like, does he open the door? Does he um I guess uh compliment me, I guess. Does he close the door? Does he close the door?

SPEAKER_05 34:23

Um a lot of guys don't do the chivalry stuff in Fontana.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Um well, I don't know because I haven't really dated. Uh yeah, that's true. I don't know. Maybe they do, maybe they're out here, maybe I don't know. No, no, no, I don't think they're out here.

SPEAKER_05 34:38

I feel sorry for girls nowadays. I feel like the so okay, I I was raised very old school. My father was very um, for example, this is a best story. So I'm walking home from class one day with this girl that I have a huge crush on, and I'm just walking, I'm trying to be cool, you know what I mean? And all of a sudden I just hear Zach, Zach, and I look over, and it's my dad, and he's driving up, like pulling up beside us in his car. He must have just seen us on the way home. And I'm like, this is so fucking embarrassing, you know. So I'm like pretending I don't hear him. He's like, Zach, Zach, get over here. And I'm like, hey, uh yeah, I'll see you at home, Dad. I'll see you at home. And he's like, Zach, he starts laying on the horn. He's like, Zach, get over here. So I go over there, the girl's like, What the fuck? And I'm like, Dad, what? And he goes real quiet, like all serious. He's like, son, when you're walking on the street with a woman, and he would always say girl, but he would never say girl. I notice that too. You walk on the outside, and if a car comes, you protect her. And I'm like, Dad, just tell me when we get home. He's like, but now you'll remember forever. And I fucking did. I remembered it to stop like.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah, that's one thing I always notice too. Like, if I'm walking on this the side of the street, I'm like, that's out already. Like, I'm sorry, I can't do this.

SPEAKER_05 35:59

You know, but if a car comes, it's like stop the car with one hand, protecting the car. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's one thing that I'm ex I think at well, I guess a little older. I don't know, at my age, I feel like well, how old were you when that happened?

SPEAKER_05 36:16

I was in high school.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Oh, you see, people my- My dad's like, he's gonna teach me right, you know. Yeah, exactly. But I feel like people my age should know that. And I was raised very old school too. So I, you know, those little things I see and I keep in mind, and I'm like, yeah, I don't think we're a good fit, you know.

SPEAKER_05 36:32

So um but but but just from it sounds like you have a quick leash, like it's like one little thing, you're like, I'm out.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Okay, not not exactly, and like I don't just cut them off. Like, I'm just like, all right, you know, maybe it, you know, they didn't notice, so I'm like, you know, okay, then we'll just maybe we could hang out again or something, or let me just see um, you know, how our conversations go and stuff. But if it's something obvious, like opening the door, or like you know, something like that, then I'd be like, you know, if he's already like this in the beginning, what am I gonna expect later on? You know, so you're already seeing the future. Yeah, I'm already like, yeah, I don't think you know, if it's already the beginning in the beginning, you know, it's like they have to show, um, you know, impress, I guess. But if yeah, if they're not opening the door or being, you know, just respectful or gentleman, um then I'm not interested.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Does height matter?

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Height, I don't think so. I mean, I would five foot. Oh, well, when you're talking about five feet, um So it does matter. Well I would say I mean it's not the end of the world if they're five feet, but you know, I'll I'd probably be open to it. But how tall are you?

Emotional vs Physical Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 38:05

I'm five four.

SPEAKER_05 38:06

Okay. Do I look short? Mo wants to know the exact height of all of your exes.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Oh, I don't know. They're all pretty short, they're all about the same height. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

They're about about five's X's.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Okay, so five feet is okay as long as they have a gray personality.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

It's somewhat okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:25

Like you better have a really good thing.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Yeah, yeah, because I'm I would you marry a guy who's five foot with a gray personality.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

So five feet, I would be he'd be like right here, no problem.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

And the bloodline would be fucked. I mean, it would be shorter, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Yeah, right, but I'm just trying to think, like, if I'm trying to give him a kiss or something, then I'd be like, You would have to look down, yes. Um I it's not my preference, but I'm not gonna say no. Never say never.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

So then you would have kids with the five foot man.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Well, if he's my husband, yeah, I mean of course, of course.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Okay. So do you Do you believe in marriage?

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Oh yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Okay. Do you believe in open relationships? I don't you think monogamy is the only way to go? Why is that?

SPEAKER_00 39:19

I grew up in a Christian household, so um I definitely think, you know, if you're with one person, you have to be with that person. And I mean, you know, you can't lust. Well, I mean, it happens, but you can't just you know, in an open relationship, it's like what what even is the point of being in a relationship if you're gonna be with uh you know other people?

SPEAKER_02 39:45

What's the point of being in a relationship if you're with one person?

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Because that's the love of your life.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Theoretically.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Why are you with your wife and only your wife? Or if you're only with your wife.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Well, the the the concept of being with someone is it just about sex or is a relationship a multifaceted um set of behaviors? I mean they're commitments for that matter.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Yeah, well marriage is a commitment, so it's like Well what are you committing to? To that person.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

To do what?

SPEAKER_00 40:22

To be with them, to be their partner.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

So then you don't believe in divorce.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Yes, you do believe in it or you don't believe in it?

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Yeah, no, I believe in it.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

I mean, if it doesn't work out, then but if you're committing to someone, then why should you be allowed to get a divorce?

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Well, that's I mean, that's that's that's a mistake people make. If you're committing to someone, then you have to stay with them. I mean, there's some people divorce, you know, nobody plans to divorce a commitment if the commitment can be broken. You never know how a person can be. You can commit to a person and then out of nowhere they switch up and they turn out to be something different, you know, a whole different person. So you know, at that point you're gonna stay with them or you're gonna divorce them. You have no choice. Well, you do have a choice, but it's like, why are you gonna stay with them if they already did you dirty? They already broke the such as what well, I mean, for example, cheating.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Yeah, but that that breaks the argument when it comes to monogamy versus an open relationship, right? If you're monogamous with someone, then we're assuming that there is nothing that that person is doing that's breaking the commitment towards you. Right. However, people do change.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

I mean, uh cheating isn't the only reason why people get divorces.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Right. I mean, there's different reasons. You just never know a person.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

Let's say for the sake of this conversation, you're married and you're supposed to be committed to this person, and this person becomes depressed. Some of the qualities that you cared about before, they're no longer there. Right? The person is no longer driven, so on and so forth. Would you get a divorce?

SPEAKER_00 42:06

I think before even thinking of divorce, it's like trying, I guess you would just have to try to see if it would work out. Just talk about it and you know, um try to come to an agreement, like, hey, you know, you're depressed, I know you're not how you were before. You know, try to help your person get back to that, or just try to see, you know, how you can relive the relationship again how it was before.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

How long would you wait?

SPEAKER_00 42:38

How long? Um I don't know. I guess it just depends. Everybody's gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Six months, a year, two years, five years, I would say no.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

I would say maybe I mean I wouldn't I don't know about a time frame, but maybe I would say no more than a year.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Okay. So see, that's that's what the issue is with most people who talk about monogamous relationships, right? There is a there is there are all these like requirements that are attached to it. And essentially the gist of it is for as long as you make me happy, like you're supposed to, then I'll stay with you. And the moment you no longer make me happy, I'll wait a little bit, whatever that timeline is, for you a year, and then I no longer will be with you. There's a criteria, right? So monogamous relationships aren't really monogamous because they're just selfish attempts. You want to have these things, and this the moment you don't have them anymore, the relationship doesn't exist. Your commitment comes with the fact that this person has to give you something in order for you to provide them commitment.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Right. Exactly. Um, but I think that's still, you know, it just I guess it just comes down to in the beginning, like setting that, you know. Um talking about that like you know, an open relationship, it's like you know, you already know what's to come. You um Which is what? That they're gonna be with other people.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

Perhaps, okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

And perhaps well, yeah, because it's an open relationship, so it's

Biology, Society, And What “Normal” Means

SPEAKER_00 44:19

like um but monogamous, it's like you yeah, you make a commitment and you know things don't always turn out the way that Yeah, but commitment is not only sexual though. Oh no, I'm not talking about just sexual, it's just a commitment to be with that person.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

But in an open relationship, you're also committed to the person that you're with.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

You're committed to them and maybe other people.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Well, the commitment differs based upon what that open relationship looks like, right? Let's say for the sake of this conversation that you're in an open relationship and you're with one person and then you have other people that you're also in smaller relationships with, right? Then your commitment based upon those relationships to those people differs. But you still are committed. It's just different types of commitment.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

So are those people actually committed to those other people, or they're just messing with them for a good time.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

It just depends on the relationship, right? Exactly. So if if you and I were in an open relationship, then we talked about whatever the rules of our open relationship is, yes, then that would define what it is that we're allowed to do and what it is that we're not allowed to do. Right.

SPEAKER_05 45:30

Yeah, so it's the same as monogamy, you just have a different set of commitments.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Sure. Oh but but the but the problem is that monogamous relationships come with a come with a sticker that says you have to make me happy, otherwise I will leave you. Same with open relationships. Not entirely, because the the open relationships even if we do have yes, but there is more of an understanding of allowing the person the the ten people who are in open relationships tend to be in open relationships because they value their partner's happiness.

SPEAKER_05 46:11

I don't think that's true. I think most people in open relationships want to fuck other people. Yeah, I think you're like trying to create this like Sigmund Freud, I've connected the psychological like no, they just want to fuck.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

I think that's the whole point of an open relationship, right? Because you want to experience other people while still coming home to your person.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Again, it could there could be, but yes, that's one type of it.

SPEAKER_05 46:34

That's most types of it, I think. But even if that were true, because that's the only tangible difference between a monogamous relationship and an open relationship. Otherwise, it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Not just a sexual factor, but some some could be just emotional connections. It doesn't have to be just sexual connections. So it could be emotional as well.

SPEAKER_05 46:57

So you really think that people in open relationships, they're like, I just want my partner to be happy. Not just I think it's 99% I'm trying to fuck.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Yeah, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 47:11

In order for you to allow your partner to be in an open relationship, don't you have to be happy that they want to be happy?

SPEAKER_05 47:21

Yes, but I think for 99% of people in open relationships, it's more so I don't enjoy you fucking other people, but I enjoy the fact that I get to fuck other people more than I dislike the fact that you get to fuck other people.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

I think you think that because you're because you think that that's how you would feel.

SPEAKER_05 47:40

That's how everybody would feel. That's not true at all.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Well, how do you know what they feel?

SPEAKER_02 47:46

How do I know what they feel about what?

SPEAKER_05 47:48

Open relationships.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

Yeah, like why are they in an open relationship? You're saying not just sexual, it could be emotional.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Because there are people who are in open relationships for the fact that they want connections, or the fact that they want to have the freedom of having a connection, or they want to just have other sexual partners, or I mean, there's just like so many different any person that I've talked to who is in an open relationship, they had some form of having the desire to live their life without being restricted.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

So is that even I mean, if it's not sexual and it's emotional, is that even being considered open? If you're with somebody, let's say you're somebody, it's you're in an open relationship and you go to someone else for emotional support, is that really being open? An open relationship? It's if you're not having sex with them.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

Not everybody gets off just by having sex. You don't you don't necessarily just have to have sex with someone in order to be connected to them. I mean, this you know, I don't So like connected in what way?

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Like what would be an example?

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Like For example, you said that your guy friend, right? Uh-huh. Or your ex-boyfriend, he was um jealous and possessive. Yeah, you didn't he didn't want you to like have a conversation with anybody. Yeah. What would you consider cheating when it comes to your boyfriend having an emotional connection with someone else? Where does that cross the line where it becomes cheating? Is it only if he has sex with that person?

SPEAKER_00 49:28

So I believe I mean if they're, you know, um, I guess flirting, like saying, you know, that he likes them or he thinks they're attractive, I think that's you know what should she say to him that you would consider crossing the line? What should she say? I mean, I'm not worried about what she has to say.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

So so if he doesn't so if she says, Hey, you're so attractive, I love looking at you, I love your smile and all these things, and then he says, Oh my god, thank you so much, you too. Has he cheated?

SPEAKER_00 50:05

You too? I mean, you too is already like you know, cheating. I don't know about cheating, cheating, but it's like disrespectful to your to your relationship, right?

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Yeah, it is okay. So, and that would make you upset.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Okay, now at this point, you've taken away a to what otherwise I would consider a simple conversation, right? Now what you consider flirting is a problem and a boundary in your relationship. In an open relationship, that would not be an issue, theoretically speaking, based upon whatever the partners decide. But most of the time in an open relationship that would not be a problem.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Well, I mean because it it just to me I'm confused as to how like you say sometimes it's not to have sex, but to have or an emotional connection because you're only um getting something emotionally,

Respect, Expectations, And Control

SPEAKER_00 51:05

there's nothing physical that's happening in the world.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

Like, what kind of emotions are you talking about? Because it could be like, hey, I'm you know, I'm here for you if you need anything, okay. But that's you know, and one type of you know, having an uh emotional connection, but then it's also like, hey, I think you're attractive, hey, let's go out, and you know. So what kind of emotions?

SPEAKER_02 51:25

You know, it's like Do you have girlfriends and guy friends? Or you just have girlfriends?

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Uh mostly girlfriends.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Mostly girlfriends, but you have guy friends.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

I do, yes.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

Are you close with any of your guy friends? Is your relationship with your guy friends different than your girlfriends?

SPEAKER_00 51:40

It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

In what way?

SPEAKER_00 51:43

Well, with my girlfriends, I talk to them about things that I don't really talk to with.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Sure, you share a lot more with your girlfriends than you do with your guy friends, right? There are things that you don't tell your guy friends that you would otherwise tell your girlfriends, right? Private stuff, whatever it is. Um are you do you have an emotional connection with those people, with your girlfriends?

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Yeah, it's like a friendly connection. Platonic, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

There's nothing sexual about it. Right. So can you have those conversations with a guy if you chose to?

SPEAKER_00 52:19

You can. I mean, but sometimes I don't choose to.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Right. So most of the time is that you're you're not choosing to do this, you're not choosing to really open up and become so close with the person because majority of the time what ends up happening between opposite sex is that the sex that you're attracted to tends to um uh ignite something within you when you start to be that person, right? If you had the same exact relationship you have with your girlfriends with a guy, that tends to become a space that you feel comfortable in, and majority of the time women tend to feel more emotionally connected to that person, where then they start to feel things that are also sexual, right? Make sense? Yes, okay, so it's in an open relationship, it is your choice how far you want to go, it's your choice how far down the line you want to go of allowing something to become more than a friend, right? My wife's relationship, for example, with Zach is completely different than her relationship with me because they're just friends, right? Yeah, they have no there's there's nothing sexual, so like for her, she's not gonna share incredibly intimate things with my best friend, for example, right, but she would do that with her best friend, girl best friend, right, for example, yes, the moment she starts to talk to a guy in a more um uh intimate way, in a more um sharing her secrets and sharing her um, I guess the the things that she wouldn't share with just random people, that becomes more of a connection that then could lead to something else.

SPEAKER_05 54:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

I mean, those are that's really what the differences are.

SPEAKER_05 54:14

Well, what's your point? I don't get what your point is.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Just answering her question. Uh oh.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Yeah, like at what point would it be open?

SPEAKER_02 54:20

Because you know, you're saying emotional the moment you decide that the things that you're trying to share with somebody else is what you need in order to function or be happy, right? But again, that differs from person to person. Not everybody has to. It's just like not everybody needs a certain thing, right? Like I don't need if I if I if I'm in an open relationship, I do not need to have a um per se emotional long-term connection with somebody in order to uh feel happiness, for example, right? It's not it's not who I am as a person, I don't really like talking to people that much, and it's just like I you know I don't I don't feel anything from that, right? Whereas for my wife, for example, it would be different. For her, she does feel a connection when she has those

Cheating, Forgiveness, And Hard Lines

SPEAKER_02 55:13

long-term sort of like open um dialogues with someone, yeah, but then again, you just come up with those rules of like whatever it is that makes you happy, and the point of the open relationship to begin with.

SPEAKER_05 55:28

But then why are you making this distinction of the rules set in a monogamous relationship that makes some people happy, where they say, Yeah, I'm gonna be unhappy if my partner gets with other people, and you're like, Oh, those are like you know, it's not a real commitment because it's only commitment if it's you're happy, but an open relationship, oh, that's like Because anytime you talk to somebody who talks about a monogamous relationship, the first thing they bring up is commitment, and commitment has nothing to do with it. Commitment, but even in an open relationship, there's still commitment, you're committing to the rules and the terms of the relationship that you set out.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

You're committed to your partner despite the unusual rules that are in your relationship.

SPEAKER_05 56:10

My commitments are it's still just arbitrary rules that have you've set for yourself based on your own.

SPEAKER_02 56:16

Yes, but one is trying to um one is trying to block your partner from having normal emotions and normal interactions, and the other is not. When you're in a monogamous relationship, the rules that you set in place are hey, if you go and um talk to this person, you flirt with this person, right? You are doing something wrong.

SPEAKER_05 56:44

Not necessarily. There's people who are in monogamous relationships that's like, yeah, flirt all you want, just don't hook up with anybody.

SPEAKER_02 56:49

Sure. And those are then those are just like normal ways of being, which is the reason why they say that is because that's very normal.

SPEAKER_05 56:56

But normal is arbitrary. Normal is like based on normal is based on general.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

So if general society wants to act a certain way, that would be normal.

SPEAKER_05 57:07

By that definition, open relationships are not normal behavior because it's very few people who have open relationships.

SPEAKER_02 57:13

But then you would have to ask your question of why, why they're not.

SPEAKER_05 57:17

This I think this okay, here's where I will agree with you. When you say open relationships is about making the other person happy, I think there's two people in most open relationships. They're the ones that want to fuck a bunch of people, and then there's the one that doesn't want to lose the person they're with, and they love them so much that they will put up with the other one fucking a bunch of people in order to stay in relationship and make them happy.

SPEAKER_02 57:40

I believe there's a version of that as well, yes. But that's but that's a that's a that's a version that tends to end up in people building resentment. And most of those relationships don't end well.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

I agree.

SPEAKER_05 57:54

I agree too.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

So there's a difference.

SPEAKER_05 57:57

That's 99% of open relationships.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

No, it's not that statistic is just like made up out of your ass.

SPEAKER_05 58:04

It's not made up based on my fucking eyeballs that see reality. How many people do you know in an open relationship? Very deadline.

SPEAKER_02 58:11

How many people do you know in open relationships that failed? Aside from the one that we know. I mean, I don't know a lot of people in open relationships.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

How is that relationship the ones that you know?

SPEAKER_05 58:20

It failed. Oh, the other relationship is just failed, actually. Uh actually, I was in an open relationship that failed. So that's two.

SPEAKER_02 58:29

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What does that mean? Don't even get that started. That one, that one was completely your fault.

SPEAKER_05 58:36

And okay, so um, here's the thing too. So, where are all these magical successful open relationships? If I only know two people in open relationships, maybe that's because they don't work.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

I know you know there is a bunch that are in open relationships. Actually, they're famous people that are in open relationships that that the relationship works.

SPEAKER_05 58:57

Yeah, but you don't know. You you don't have friends with them, you don't know behind the scenes. Maybe they are having so much that you know.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

You could make that argument for anything, right? And you could make that argument for anyone, but here is reality. The reality is over 60% of marriages that are monogamous do not work and end up in divorces. Correct. So so that that's real statistic. Yeah, and that has been proven.

SPEAKER_05 59:22

And even less open relationships work.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

I don't think I've heard of anyone.

Porn, Pregnancy, And Practical Solutions

SPEAKER_05 59:28

I don't think I've heard of a single one except where you're the only one that I know, and it's still pretty new. Like fingers crossed. Like you guys are doing great so far, but I'm just saying the odds are not they're stacked in against.

SPEAKER_02 59:40

It takes, it takes just like anything else, I think people miss the biggest factor of any relationship. That relationships take work. Of course. You know, whether you're monogamous or an open relationship, the the main thing is that you have to communicate, you have to be honest, you have to, you have to talk about your value systems on a regular basis and make sure you're on the same page and treat each other well.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:05

I mean, that's that's really the way you're saying all these obvious things. My point of contention isn't be honest with each other, it's that you're you're portraying open relationships as this some kind of higher level, uh like better, like new magic cure to relationships like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

Absolutely is. I think the moment a person truly, not the verse the the Timu version that you brought up that's fucking um some people want to make the other person happy, and the other person is uh worried about losing the other person, not that version. The version of two people who are truly self-aware, secure in themselves, and understand each other and care about each other's happiness, in that version, an open relationship tends to be a healthier relationship than a monogamous relationship because monogamous relationships by nature try to restrict the partner from natural behaviors of human beings.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:04

Okay, so let me ask you this then. What if your wife tomorrow comes up, she's crying, she says, I just like it makes me so unhappy when I think about you flirting and hooking up and everything with other people. Are you going to care about her happiness or you don't have happiness? A thousand percent. So you would say, Okay, I'm we're done being open. Yes, okay, no, but that's what most girls feel. That's that's why people are in a monogamous relationship because most girls feel like that. They don't want their they feel uh huge anxiety and sadness and everything else if if their guy is out talking and flirting with other girls.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

But again, it comes down to asking your qu asking yourself a question of why. Why is it that I feel this way? Why is it that I feel that my partner going and talking to someone is a problem? Why is it that I feel that my partner going and sleeping with someone is a problem? Why is it that I feel my partner going up flirting with someone is a problem?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:05

Okay, so let's say your wife said, Hey, I it makes me so sad when you're talking to other girls, blah, blah, blah. And you said, Okay, well, why do you feel that way? She's like, I know it's my own insecurity, I know it's because I'm scared of losing

Final Rapid Fire: Size, Red Flags, Periods In Texts

SPEAKER_05 1:02:18

you, I know it's all these things, but I just don't like it. Yeah. Are you gonna be like, well, too bad, or are you gonna be like, okay, even though those are the reasons that you gave me, because I care about your feelings and how you feel, I'll stop seeing other girls.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:32

The the latter. But that doesn't change the fact that but that doesn't change that's called a monogamous relationship. First of all, you're coming up with hypothetical situations, and then you're saying you're trying to prove a point based off a hypothetical situation that doesn't have the difference.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:45

The only difference between an open relationship and what just happened is you decided to do open first, and then the girl says that, versus the girl saying from the get-go, this is the type of relationship that I want. That's the only difference between those two scenarios.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

But they're but they're but they don't have a place in reality though.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:04

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

You just made that up, that storyline.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:12

Yeah, but this is a common storyline that happens all the time. It and it ha usually it happen it just happens before the relationship begins. Like, okay, a girl and a guy are talking to each other, and at some point the girl says, Hey, that not literally, but in her mind, she's going, I am not going to feel happy in this relationship if we continue seeing each other, and I know you're seeing other girls. Yes. So, in order for me to be happy, you need to stop.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:40

But why is that? Why did I feel that way?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:42

But it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

It does matter. That's that's all that matters.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:45

Okay, let's say she feels that way because she's very insecure.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

Because it takes away their security. Yeah, it's just very simple. Yeah, I don't want you to talk to these other people. Yeah, because I feel if you talk to these other people, you're gonna leave me.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

Yes, it's it's a very simple concept, it's not rocket science.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:59

I don't think that's the only reason, but that might be one reason.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

I mean, what other reason would there be?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:03

I don't want to get an STD that you picked up from somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

Okay, yeah. People are thinking about that when they're thinking about monogamous relationships. They're worried about STDs. That's not what they're worried about. They're worried about losing the person. Yeah, like just the visual- Nobody takes STDs from flirting.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:19

Just the visual of like seeing your partner with somebody else, even if they were like, Don't worry, I'll never leave you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

If you picture that shit in your head, it's a mental block that has nothing to do with anything. It the the inability to try to process information in a logical way is the reason why people get emotional.

Closing Thanks And The Upcoming Date

SPEAKER_05 1:04:40

No, but people are gonna get emotional anyway. Yeah, yeah. I think I think you live in delusional.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:46

You think that everybody's a robot like you? I don't think everybody's a robot.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

He knows a little too much about open relationships. Are you are you in one or no? Yes. Oh, you are?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:59

That's why I got so triggered when you brought up open relationships.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

Who got triggered? You.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

So how is your are you the friend that you guys are talking about?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:09

That no, no, no, that's another thing. That would make that would defeat the whole purpose. Relationship, open relationship is working.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

Oh, so how is that? You don't feel that weight towards, you know, oh, my wife is seeing other people. You don't feel some type of way, like she comes home too.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

Ten years ago, I was dating this girl, and we um we didn't, I don't remember what the fight was about. There was like some like argument, something had happened, she was saying something. I don't remember. I was like, look, like I like we're done. I'm not doing this. Like, you're just like this is over. And so we break up, and she knew where I was gonna go that night. And she shows up, and in the middle of the dance floor, there's a guy there's a guy standing. I never forget this moment. It's like kind of imprinted in my head. Um, and she's like standing there and she looks at me. Me sees me seeing her and then looks at the guy and starts making out with her. Okay, right in front of me. Like does that on purpose, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

Did you how did you feel that at that time?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:12

Like shit. Right. I I felt really bad. I felt like somebody like stabbed a knife and just like exactly shoved it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

At that time, did you guys have that open relationship?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:22

No, no, no. This is we were broken up at that point.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

But it just was broken up though. But at that time, either way, like when you guys were together before.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

I was that I was only monogamous relationships. I didn't even know what an open relationship was at that time. Um, it's it's actually more than 10 years ago, it's probably like 15 years ago. And then and I went home that night, and I'm always thinking to myself, was why did I feel this way? And the the interesting part about it was I felt that way, despite the fact that we were broken up, and despite the fact that I broke up with her, right? So that question in my mind for a while was just kind of lingering, just trying to figure out why I felt this way, and what what possible reason do I have to care this much? Why did it bother me so much? If we're broken up, I don't want to be with this girl, and what is the purpose for me to feel hurt, right? And I realized the only reason why I felt hurt was because I understood that she was doing this on purpose to hurt me, and that's what really hurt me. And for the for the years later on, I really tried to search with within myself to understand why it is that we feel jealousy and possessiveness, and why is it that we feel this um push towards wanting to um hold someone from whether it's leaving us or being with somebody else or or or talking to somebody else, whatever it is. And I realized something, which was and I was actually talking to one of our friends about this earlier today. You cannot change how people feel, and you cannot change what people do, and you cannot control what people do, and you cannot control what people might feel in in a relationship that they're in. And most people try to control the other person and control their behaviors and control who they talk to, what they do, so on and so forth, and that's what a monogamous relationship relationship is.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:41

But that's also an open relationship, you just have different things that you control, different levels of control, and you in your brain you have set an arbitrary standard of what you think is the right level of control that other people will just disagree with with their arbitrary standards.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:57

Yeah, it's the the lines in an open relationship is based upon a discussion that takes place where both people agree the same with monogamous relationships, but no, but that's not true, that is true, exactly like some people aren't like emotionally mature enough to have the conversation, which they should have.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:12

Same thing with open relationships, some people don't have the conversation, has nothing to do with the type of relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:17

Every single relationship you've ever been in, yeah, yes, that was monogamous, yeah, you at some point started to feel that this person is no longer right for you. Yes, correct. That's why you broke up with them, and at some point during this time, you started to think to yourself that oh, I want to talk to somebody else. Because I already checked out.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:43

No, not necessarily, because it's not always I leave a relationship because there's this other person that's better. Most of the time it's I'm not happy in this relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

No, no, no, I understand. I'm not saying you started to talk to other people, I'm saying, I'm saying that you thought to yourself that I'm already I'm done with this person. I want to start talking to other people. The desire of you wanting to talk to other people was there. You thinking to yourself, you're done with this relationship already, and now I'm ready to move on. But the relationship hasn't ended.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:15

Yeah, and then you break up with them. That's when you're that's when you break up with them.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:18

Yes, but there is but breakups never really happen in a timeline of oh, I I'm I don't this person is not good for me. I'm gonna break up with them.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:26

This is the same with open relationships. Like you could have an open relationship where at some point you're like, I no longer want to be in this open relationship. Maybe I don't have like the same emotional connection with this person, maybe I don't want to have and be in a relationship where he's fucking other people, whatever. And then at some point, maybe it's not the exact moment you think that at some point down the line you break up with them and you say, Hey, I don't want to be in this open relationship anymore. It's the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:52

But what what your reason of why you don't want to be with them is different, though. Potentially, there's a thousand different reasons because of course, of course, but that has any type of relationship, but that has nothing to do with your urge to want to talk to other people, where in a monogamous relationship that would be considered cheating.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:07

Yeah, but maybe your it's your urge to not have the other person talking to other people. Maybe that's the urge, but it's not a wrong urge to have, it's just two different preferences that people have for relationships.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:18

What's not a wrong urge to have?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:19

If if I'm in an open relationship with somebody and I'm like, hey, I can't take you seeing other people anymore, I don't want to be in this type of relationship. So I'm gonna break up with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:30

Yes, but that but but you're changing the whole you're changing the whole dynamic of the relationship.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:34

Yes, because you no longer enjoy the relationship. You're not changing it, you're just getting exiting the relationship, just like any breakup.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:41

But you're exiting the relationship for the purpose of not wanting to be monogamous, uh what not wanting to be in an open relationship anymore. But in a monogamous relationship, that's not the issue.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:52

But but either way, it's just a different preference that you have of why you don't want to be in the why you are no longer enjoying the relationship. So no, regardless of the the reason, it's just a preference that you have of I'm not in a relationship that makes me happy any longer. For whatever reason, it could be a thousand different reasons, it doesn't matter. So I'm gonna leave this relationship.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:13

So it doesn't matter if it's open or monogamous, it's not one is superior to the other, it's just two different preferences that two different sets of preferences people have.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

I think I think where you get off the train is where I'm pointing out the fact that flirting with other people and feeling a sense of happiness or fulfillment to a certain extent, is a natural behavior of human beings. So where most monogamous relationships consider that a problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:42

So you with your wife, um, what made you want to be in an open relationship? Like, do you you is she not enough for you to be uh finding that in other people, or what's the it's not that you're searching for something, so it's just the natural way of being, which is if I'm okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:03

Um biologically, men are visual creatures, yes? Of course, we agree on this biologically. Most women tend to be emotional creatures, yes. So if I see you and I find you attractive, that would be a natural way that my brain functions. That's just like there's nothing really I could do about it. The the the problem with monogamous relationships is that men try to suppress that, they try to suppress their biology biological way of being. And then there is dishonesty that goes with it. I hate that dishonesty. I think I think that dishonesty is what builds resentment and eventually creates a setting where either a man or a woman goes and cheats on their partner, but but it works the same way in open relationships, which is what so, like you said, men have this biology where we're biologically wired to like want to sleep with other girls.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:08

Women are biologically wired when they pair bond with somebody to not want them to sleep with other people. Because if you're hooking up with all these girls, biologically, you don't from the caveman days, you don't have the resources to take care of all these girls and all these children and protect them and provide for them. So biologically, you want to lock down the man who's parabonding with you so then he can provide resources for your offspring. I don't that's uh that this is like not even like uh uh argued about in like scientific circles.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:43

This is like this is not literally when girls have sex with guys, they release an actual hormone that makes them bond with you more.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:49

Yes, but that has but that has nothing to do with them the their desire to want to be with you has nothing to do that those are two different things where then they have the desire to be with you versus they want to restrict you to not to be with anybody else.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:03

But they're not restricting you, they're just saying, hey, you can do that, but I don't want to be in a relationship with you. You're free to do whatever you want, but then you can no longer be in a relationship with me. That's not restricting you, that's just setting a boundary of what they will accept in a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:17

But you could say that about men too. Yeah. So how does but so then both of them are biological responses?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:24

Correct, and there's this constant interplay between like, yes, there's things just like any anything else in relationships, but this is probably one of the biggest ones. There's like always is gonna be a struggle of like guys wanting to hook up with other girls and girls not wanting their guy to hook up with other girls, and like a lot of times guy will say stuff like, I don't I only find my wife attractive, and you they're full of shit. Of course, like there's other girls, and yeah, maybe they say that to like appease their wife or because it sounds better or whatever, but that is what's happening in every relationship, and in every open relationship, the girl is saying, Man, I wish my guy wasn't hooking up with other dudes, but just like the guys kind of curtail their desires, the girl might love this guy so much that she says, Well, he's gonna do what he's gonna do, he's gonna have his little girls on the side, but I love him, so like I'm gonna curtail my own biological urges because I want him to be happy and I want to stay in this relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:25

I think I think the problem is that most people who think like you tend to be too stuck with the way that society has taught people to be like. That might be true, and and so I I think I think after decades of people behaving a certain way, it tends to be the majority of people learn to feel and think a certain way, and they think that that is perhaps how they're supposed to be, but it is just simply not normal.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:55

I I I disagree with that last sentence. I agree with everything up to that, but I think look, you can pretend like you're smarter than thousands of years of humans making decisions, but humans have made decisions for a thousand years and somehow landed on this monogamy thing being normal, and maybe for you specifically it doesn't work, but I think it's a little silly to argue that, like, you know, because it works for you, it's gonna work that it's a better thing for everybody else.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:26

It's not so much that, it's more so that I went from being in monogamous relationships and processing those emotions and there's understanding where those emotions were coming from, to then realizing that most people who are in monogamous relationships just haven't done that.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:39

Yeah, but you also you're just taking the perspective of like, oh, I have a sick relationship where I can hook up with other chicks. You're on like the quote unquote winning side of the relationship from most from most male female female dynamics. It's you 99%, it's the girl who wants to be monogamous more than the guy. So of course you're gonna be happier in this in an open relationship, but most girls aren't happier in open relationships. So you could argue, oh, this this is more natural, it's more natural for you, but it's not more natural for girls.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:15

I I I think that applies to any guy or a girl. I don't think it has anything to do with the gender personally.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:21

Come on, bro. You don't think that girls get more emotionally attacked during sex, they care more about cheating, all these things? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:28

No, they they do. Okay, but I don't, but I don't think the part where you're saying that the that the girl cares more about it applies to to to just the gender of the females.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:42

The only time I've seen where like a girl wants to fuck around and a guy doesn't is when a girl's like so far out of this dude's league, he's like, I don't want to fuck around because like why would I want to go bang a four when I have like a nine right here and I'm so fucking happy? Thank the Lord she wants to be with me. That's the only time I've ever seen it.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:03

So I have a question for you. What at what point did you think did you and your wife say let's be in an open relationship? Because you start at monogamous. So at what point did you say let's let's like a few months then? A few months in after that breakup, or what breakup? That first time you broke up, you said that you started that was 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:26

That was a different girl. That was a different girl.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:28

Okay, so 15 months or a few months after what?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:30

Or a relationship, me and my wife's relationship started.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:34

So they started dating, then three months later, they decided to be okay, we're gonna be an open relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:40

Somewhere around then.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:40

Okay, so then at what point did you say, like, what made you want to be in an open relationship?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:46

Had a conversation about um our desires and our relationship, and the fact that um I didn't want her to feel restricted, and I didn't want her to feel like she couldn't experience life. And based upon my experience, I um had also understood that trying to restrict people from just having normal conversations, uh, most of the time when people feel controlled, most of the time when people feel like um they can't do something they want to do, they either lie about it or they um become resentment.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:30

So in a monogamous relationship, people are restricted. I think I see it as like respect. Like I'm not gonna sleep with other people to respect my person, I'm not going to do anything with anybody else, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:45

Yes, but respect comes from expectation, yeah. If there is no expectation, then respect doesn't exist. You only are respectful towards something that's being expected of you. Does that make sense? If I said that if I was expecting you to come and say hi to me every time you saw me, then you would be respectful enough to say yes, I will say hi to you every time every time I come and say come and see you, right? But if I didn't expect that from you, then that wouldn't be respectful anyway, because I wouldn't find respect in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:16

Right. I think that's different though than like restricting somebody from seeing another person.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:21

I mean saying hi, it's like But that's also expect- I'm saying that's expectation. That's an example of what an expectation is and what respect is. Expectation would be that the that your partner says don't go sleep with somebody else. And respect would be I agree with what you're saying and I will do what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:41

So I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:43

I think expectation has to exist in order for respect to exist. Exactly. Make sense?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:50

Right. But I don't know. I I guess I don't know, it's just the whole restriction, it's like it's not really, I don't know, if you're in a relationship, it's like restrictions, it's sound a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:02

Do you do you sleep around or no? No. Okay. Why not?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:06

I don't want to. Because I I don't I don't want to catch anything, and I'm a I'm a Christian, so I'm not going to just sleep around with anybody until I get married.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:20

So what is it that you respect?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:22

My body?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:24

Why do you expect why do you respect your body? Because who said that that's a respectful thing to do?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:31

A respectful thing to do?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:33

Well Why does that make you respectful to your body if you're not sleeping with anybody else?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:40

Because you're sleeping with somebody else. I mean, that's kind of like I mean, what how would you disrespect your body?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:48

Why would it be disrespectful if you slept with other people?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:51

Because that's because I'm The answer is very simple.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:56

Yeah, Jesus told you that that's what it is. Yeah. Jesus told you not to do it. Right. And then you're respecting Jesus, right? This is like like this is like very simple.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:04

Well, not even just I mean that. Yeah, I agree with that, but it's like I just No, but that's what the reason is. Well, yeah, my body's a temple, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:12

Who said that your body is a temple?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:13

Yeah, God did.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:15

So God told you what to do.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:17

Yeah, but there's even non-religious people will say the same thing. Yeah, I hear girls say that all the time, like, oh, I want to respect my body.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:23

But that but the reasoning comes from somewhere though, and that belief system is what brings them to that to that to that to under to that understanding, and that's really where these things come from, is our own perspective and perception of things, right? Jesus, God, told you that this is how you should feel, and that's where the expectation comes. So the expectation is created, and the respect follows, which is now I I have to respect God, right? And this is what I'm going to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:59

I think if God said that the respectful thing to do is to fuck every person on the planet, that's what you would be doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:08

Uh I think I would either.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:10

No, you would. 100% you would. Of course. I disagree. I don't think it's a people you're wrong again. No. You don't think so? You think if God said that having sex with people is a good thing, that people wouldn't be having sex with people all the time?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:26

I think there would be some people that would, but I don't think it would change human behavior that much. I mean, Gato also says go to church every Sunday and people are like, but the football game's on, so I'm not gonna do that. Like people make decisions outside of their faith all the time. I think there is a natural biological factor when girls hook up with a dude and have a one-night stand, oftentimes they get this kind of like icky feeling afterward. And girls have described this to me, and they say, Oh, it feels it feels like I got used. Now, of course, that tendency doesn't exactly make sense because you can't use somebody's body, like the body is still there, it works just as fine as it did the day before. You nothing bad is happening to the body, but it's this feeling that I think girls don't really know how to describe, so they it's a subconscious response, it's an emotional response, it's a biological response.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:13

Yeah, say biological, it's a subconscious response.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:15

That's the other person's upbringing and understanding. I know, I think it's hormones. But what why in every culture girls get very attached during sex, and guys much less so. Guys want to fuck a bunch of girls, girls would prefer a guy that settles down with them. That's almost every single culture. Sure, there is different kinds of people.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:35

But the feeling of guilt that's purely based upon your upbringing and and your and your self-talk.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:43

Sure, but society And that's subconscious, but societies have developed around the emotions that they produce.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:51

Say that again.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:52

So, for example, like, okay, you could I agree with you that probably most guilt is society driven, but the reason the society is set up like that is because of the hormones. So, like, okay, girls over and over fuck guys and then feel used and then feel bad. So then, like, girls are like, Well, I'm not gonna fuck guys anymore because I feel bad after it, and eventually the society kind of develops this like attitude, which is just society is just the collective thoughts of everybody kind of combined, and that's why society and but by by the way, if you're like, hey, fuck society, I'm gonna think for myself and not be a sheep, more power to you. But that's the reason society feels that way, is because of society's based on biology, is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:37

Uh that's very generalized. I don't that I take issue with this one particular thing that we're discussing, that I disagree that that's the case. However, of course, there are things that have been shaped in society based upon how humans naturally function, of course. But in this particular situation, I do believe that monogamy and marriage, for example, like when you talk to someone and they say that marriage is a um just uh uh a reason for government to control you, for example, right? The reality of it is there's legal factors involved that make it feel that way. Because you don't technically like what is marriage? If there was no society, do you need to marry anyone?

SPEAKER_05 1:27:34

No, but again, marriage. I think okay, here's how marriage like stemmed from back in the day, if you like had a kid with somebody and you're the man, and then you say, Well, fuck you, I'm gonna leave you now. Now there's this kid, the girl can't get a job because it's fucking caveman days, and now the entire society has to fucking take care of your kid, and this kept happening. Society was like, dude, fuck this, let's make a Rule fucking get married and you have to commit to this person. So if you have a kid, you're taking care of that motherfucker, right? So then over time we develop these societies that are not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:09

Yeah, so it's a function of existing in a society. Correct. Right. So the the the bottom line, what it comes down to is there are things that exist to make society work better. Yeah. And there are things that exist based upon how we're biologically wired.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:29

And marriage being one of those things that exist because society needs it in order for it to function properly. Nowadays, if you talk to someone who says, I believe in marriage, they don't say that it's because of the function of society. They say I believe in marriage because that's what matters to me.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:45

Sure, it's like a subconscious shorthand that they have for like their subconscious beliefs. Exactly. Essentially.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:53

Which brings me to what I believe monogamy is also in this particular situation. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:01

Wow. I think you're a delusional mother.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:05

It's very interesting speaking to somebody that is very, you know, into or is in an open relationship. I don't think I've ever spoke to anybody that is in an open relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:16

I also don't think you've spoken to a lot of people who are wanting to be in a monogamous relationship to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:23

So I think everybody does.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:26

Everybody you know wants to be in a monogamous relationship. Of course, because you're surrounding a lot of people who are probably have the same value system as you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:37

Is that an LA thing or something?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:39

No, it has nothing to do with No, he's in a monogamous relationship. Well, I don't think he would ever be in an open brotherhood. Would you be in an open relationship? Potentially, yeah. Okay. I'm not against it. Okay. Yeah. So he might be in an open relationship.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:51

Yeah, open relationships on sick. I run. Honestly, the main reason I get in monogamous relationships is because the girl's like, because I care about the girl.

unknown 1:30:04

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:05

And then she's like, hey, like, I don't want you fucking around because like that makes me sad and I care about their feelings. So I'm somewhat of a philanthropist in that case, I think. In fact, I think I should be applauded for my uh for my contribution to society.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:23

Do you think you should have access to your phone's partner uh to your partner's phone?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:27

That you should have access. Um I think it's not, I wouldn't think it's like a requirement.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:35

Would you want to have access to your partner's phone?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:38

I wouldn't really mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:40

You wouldn't mind not having access, or do you I if I do or not?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:43

I mean I not something that I have to have.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:47

What am I gonna? I mean, yeah. Um what am I gonna see on there?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:51

I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:53

It's it's just a question of whether I trust my partner, um I trust that they're not gonna, you know, be messaging anybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:59

So you don't need access to their phone, you're not gonna be checking it. You're not gonna Okay. Have you ever why are you smiling? I feel like there's something I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:08

I feel like you're I don't know. I I don't I I don't think I would.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:14

Okay. Would you marry a guy who's rich? And I think I kind of can assume your answer to this, but would you marry a guy who's rich and would give you all the money that you need to do whatever you want, but constantly cheats on you, or with a guy who's incredibly loyal and very good in bed, but he's broke as hell and you have to carry the relationship.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:41

What do you think I would say? You're assuming my answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:44

I'm assuming the broke guy. Um and you just hope Jesus will make it work.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:50

So I would choose the broke guy, because I mean no shit. Well, yeah, because I mean, as long as the broke guy has uh is ambitious, then no, he's not ambitious.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:07

He's not ambitious, he's just gaming all day. Gaming all day.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:12

You forgot you don't break up with somebody if they doesn't open the door. You think he's gonna date them?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:17

There are two men left in the world and hundreds of women.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:22

Um is so there's no third option of being by my notion. I'm not I wouldn't even get with them in the first place.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:32

I mean You would let the human species perish?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:35

I yeah, so would be. I mean, if I'm not gonna be happy in either one, then why even why even bother to be with them?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:43

Cat lady it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:46

I'm not a cat lady. I'm a dog lady. I'm a dog lady.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:50

That's funny. Um how do you so so when you say that you as long as he's ambitious, you wanna you would date a guy who like look works at you know McDonald's or whatever, as long as he has a path of future for himself?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:09

Yes, definitely, because I mean if we end up getting married, it's like you know, he's gonna be the father of my children. So I don't want the father of my children to stay working at McDonald's, you know, especially living here in California, you know, it's not gonna get us anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:27

Can a relationship truly recover from infidelity?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:33

I think it it can.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:37

You would forgive.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:39

I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:40

You wouldn't forgive, but Jesus forgave.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:42

You're right, yes. I would forgive. You would forgive because you forgive it. I would, but at that point it's like do I want to stay with that person? Because if they do it, like they say, once a cheater is always a cheater. So yes, I would forgive. Believe what?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:02

You believe that saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:04

Um I do, I just don't have proof of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:12

I believe that to the most part.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:14

Which is what does that mean?

SPEAKER_05 1:34:16

I I think there are people who change, I just think it's super rare. Okay. Someone has to like have the like self-awareness and the really desire to change, and I think most people aren't gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:27

Okay. Um I was gonna ask you something about cheating, I think. What did I bring it on? What was what was the question that I just asked you?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:43

Um, if I think that infidelity would or somebody would change uh absolutely you would forgive and you would stay with that person. I don't think I would stay with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:54

Oh, you wouldn't stay with the person, you would break up with them. Yes. Okay. Uh-huh. So like they cheat one time. Like he comes home, he says, I was drunk, like I was fucked up, I would never do this again. I'm so sorry. No. You have three kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:10

Oh no, he's he's gone.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:12

You're you're out, you're like, it's over. I'm out. Wow. Cold.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:16

Cold.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:17

This is this is when you realize how much commitment means, huh?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:20

No. Well, because in a marriage, you're committed to that person and you um if one person breaks the commitment, both people break the commitment. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:31

At that point, the commitment is already broken, technically.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:33

Yeah, well, one person already broke it, so I mean, I suppose if you if you like to think that commitment is a one-way street, perhaps.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:41

Okay, Mo, so you sign a contract to buy a car. You said, I will buy this car for $20,000. They say okay, and you say, in the contract, one of the stipulations is you can't have it can't be broken when I buy it. And then you buy the car for $20,000, and then the whole engine is broken. Are you gonna be like, Oh, well, commitment is a two-way street, so I'm just gonna honor my commitment. You're gonna be like, No, you broke the commitment, this commitment no longer lasts, so give me my money back. Yeah, they're like, No, we're not gonna fix it.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:13

No, but in this case, the guy is trying to ask forgiveness. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:16

Well, now you're mentioning that.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:18

No, he's actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:21

Yeah, I forgive you, but here let's we're gonna divorce. That's now that you mentioned that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:28

What if in that divorce you're losing all the money?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:31

Money comes and goes. I mean, money's not my priority.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:37

Your sanity is. Yes. Interesting. Um, sh can can your husband slash boyfriend watch porn?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:47

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:48

Not allowed.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:49

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:50

Never. Never. Is that cheating?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:52

That's cheating.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:53

Okay, so watching porn is cheating. That's cheating. How's that? How is that cheating?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:57

How what do you mean? How is that cheating? Just asking the question. It's like, am I not enough? You're watching other people for your pleasure. It's you're watching other people doing that.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:10

Yeah, but what if he's watching it for the character development? The plot.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:13

Character development.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:17

What if he's watching it to learn how to have sex with you?

SPEAKER_04 1:37:21

That'd be a great excuse, actually. Gaslighting baby, I just want to be able to pleasure you better in the character. Under an X gaslighting level. You would be the ultimate gaslighter, man. You would be the ultimate gas. You'd be like, psychology-wise, the reason you agree me to cheat is No, I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:38

That's something you talk about with your person.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:40

What do you mean? You talk about what?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:42

How to do better.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:44

Okay. Okay. But if you don't know, how how what are you gonna teach somebody else if you don't know how to do it either?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:56

So, I mean, that's when you talk about it, you say I mean talking about it, I'm not gonna do anything. Yeah, it is because it's like you tell somebody what you like and what you don't like.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:05

Two people who have never played tennis meet each other and start talking about how to play tennis. Neither of them know how to play tennis. How are they gonna figure out how to play tennis?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:17

Deg, you can figure out how to play tennis. What do you mean? You can figure these things out. You don't have to be watching other people. I mean, tennis, you're talking about tennis versus pornography. That's two whole different themes.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:28

Well, I'm talking about sex, not pornography. Those are two different things.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:31

Pornography.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:33

No, I'm talking about You're saying You said we're gonna talk about it, which is we're gonna talk about having a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:40

Have sex. Sex play tennis.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:42

Tennis.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:42

They could figure it out. The cavemen didn't have porn. They figured out how to procreate somehow.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:47

Yes. I think you just talked about it, figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:50

You thought the cavemen were like, how do we have sex? Let's here's a diagram on the rock wall that we could like.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:57

I think there are people who I've met who have had sex many times and they still don't know how to have sex.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:02

Oh, that's true. Yeah, that's true. And they're bad in bed. Yeah, they're bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:05

They're just bad in bed, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:07

But I suppose if you really don't care about the quality of the sex, because how are you gonna know what somebody likes if you're just gonna say, Oh, well, I saw it on pornography, let me try it.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:16

You'd be surprised.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:17

You'd be surprised, but that's not always the case. So, how are you you know how does how does that work? That's why you speak you talk to the person, say, I like this, I don't like this.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:26

Got it. So, so understood. So then you but you find that to be cheating based upon the fact that they're watching somebody else naked and doing stuff, so then and that's not okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:41

That's not okay, got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:43

So if let's say you haven't had sex with your husband for eight months while you're pregnant, yeah, and your husband's your husband is like, baby, I love you so much, but like I gotta like I gotta do something. Like I'm just going crazy here. What's the solution?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:05

Well, you take care of him.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:08

You gotta do what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:09

Yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do. I mean, that's your you know uh husband, so it's like you always will make it work one way or another.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:18

Yes, so then he doesn't have to go and watch porn or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:22

Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:24

And he doesn't go with other people or you know naturally, naturally um I mean you already answered the question about the random hookups, which you're not into. And um I mean, I don't think what I'm about to ask you is gonna really register much because I think what this would be um we'll see. Maybe it doesn't. Who knows? Bring it on. Final question. The size matter.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:59

What size are we talking about?

SPEAKER_02 1:41:01

There's only one size.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:03

Shoe size? Uh what size?

SPEAKER_02 1:41:05

You know, they do say that it's actually uh um they say that what is it, the shoe size or the hand size?

SPEAKER_05 1:41:12

People say the shoe size, but I've heard that's a myth.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:15

Yeah, the shoe size might might be a myth. I suppose hand size is more accurate.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:21

Are they both myths? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:23

I don't know. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:24

I thought they were both myths.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:29

Does it matter?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:33

No. It doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:38

Height doesn't matter, size doesn't matter. You're you're uh you would do anything with anyone.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:42

Uh anything with anyone? No. Okay, not anything with just anyone. He's gotta open the door. It has to be the right thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:49

If he says one wrong word on the date.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:51

No. He's out of here. Okay, I don't he's not completely out of here. He I just keep it, you know, because I just put two and two together later on, and then I'm like, okay, then this is just how they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:03

Let this be the final question, which is what would your friends think is your red flag?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:10

My red flag? That's a good question. Um like in general or in a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:20

Give us one of each.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:22

Oh. So now I have to think. Um so in general, I guess it would say it would be dang. I don't even know. Okay, let me go to the relationship part. Okay. The relationship red flag would probably be um dang, I never really thought of this.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:51

Nobody's ever pointed out your red flag.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:53

Nobody ever really points out your red flag.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:54

People think you're perfect?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:56

No, nobody's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:58

Well, I am close enough to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:01

At least you are, oh maybe this far apart. Gotcha. I'm not, I'm pretty far. But my red flag, I guess, in general, I guess I could be an overthinker. Like I overthink things like, oh, I think this person, you know, um, did this because of this reason, or I'm just like overthinking my mind goes, you know, and that's something I'm working on. Um, and it's you know, I just forget about it. But that's I guess that would be a red flag. Um, in relationships, I guess it would just be the same. Overthinking, like I'm just like does he like me, does he not like me?

SPEAKER_02 1:43:41

Does he want to talk to me? Does he not want to talk to me? Why didn't he text me? Why did it take so long?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:45

Yes. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:47

Why did he say send an emoji instead of this emoji?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:50

Why did he put a period behind the sentence?

SPEAKER_05 1:43:53

This period's diabolical.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:55

Yes, those periods, I don't use them. Unless I'm really bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:00

I do. I think I actually was messaging somebody and they some by accident, like it wasn't, I was just like typing, and then like I put the space twice, and they just like put a period on it and sent it to someone, then she replied to me and she said, Are you mad at me? And I was like, What are you talking about? And she was like, You put a period. I was like, Are you out of your mind?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:22

You never know. Hey, that period could do a lot, it could really change the whole message. I'm like, Are you are you mad at me or is there something you didn't like? But yeah, I just that's funny. Then I just forget about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:38

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Appreciate it. You have been fantastic. Thanks for your openness and honesty. Thank you guys. And uh good luck with your uh date coming up. Hope uh he opens the door for you and also closes it.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:54

Yes, I hope so too. We'll see how it goes.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:57

Let us know.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:58

Thanks for watching. We'll see you later.