When The Universe Rewards Self-Belief Ft. Emma - Ep.178

Special thanks to Emma for being a part of this episode of Unattainable Podcast Show 

We unpack San Diego and LA dating, how blurred boundaries let betrayal repeat, and how trusting ourselves rebuilt confidence. Emma shares how a poetry practice turned pain into meaning and how initiative at work beats waiting for permission.

• San Diego dating realities and red flags
• Meeting on Hinge and trusting alignment
• First love, toxic love and codependency
• Betrayal by friends and gray areas
• Boundaries as self-respect not punishment
• Writing as healing and editing with distance
• Defining cheating, flirting and secrecy
• Fetishes, honesty and consented standards
• Intuition over surveillance and phone checks
• Age gaps, maturity and power dynamics
• First date design and momentum
• Career lessons: action over permission
• Internships, curiosity and being memorable

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Transcript

Meet Emma: Dating And Identity

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi guys, super excited to be here. My name is Emma Sheena. I work in influencer marketing in San Diego, California. Honestly, the dating scene in San Diego sucks. I met my boyfriend on Hinge, which like is kind of embarrassing to say out loud. What you put out into the universe is what you get. My first boyfriend was the worst. I think when you're young and you know you're in love, I think both of you can think back to like, you know, that kind of lustful, intense energy. Everything needs to be learned. I rather life tell me no than like me tell life no. If you can't relate to people and understand that they may have not gone through the same experiences, but they've learned the same things, then you're just shutting yourself off to a whole world. Learning how to like invest in myself again and trust myself again really set the foundation for like everything that made me who I am today and all the people that I would like meet along the way. Having to navigate back to a new version of myself really showed me like how not detrimental because it taught me, but how incorrect I was moving. The more I trusted myself, the more the universe rewarded me. Yes, I'm gonna learn, and yes, I'm gonna take away things that will help me now, but I'm not gonna let it define this. And I hope that I continue to move through life like that. Not letting my past define my present, letting it go.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

Welcome to Unattainable. Glad to have you with us. I'm your host, Zach Evans, and first of all, thank you to all of our listeners. We've been getting a lot of growth and engagement over the last few weeks, so we gotta thank you guys out there for that. Uh today we got a special guest on the show. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience, your name, what you do, and your star sign?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Hi guys, super excited to be here. My name is Emma Sheena. I work in influencer marketing in San Diego, California. Um, and I'm a Taurus, so super grounded, super earthy, love all the things. Um yeah, and I'm 21. I think I I think that's everything. Those are all the questions. Um, but yeah, excited to be here.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Yeah, you seem very touristy.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

I am. Like the more you the more you'll talk to me, you're like, yeah, that checks out. I'm just very like, I like my things, like like well put together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Don't seem too crazy. But you know, we'll dig in and see if that ends up handing out or not.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Um, so let me ask you this first. You know, being a tourist, obviously you're in San Diego, but yes, kind of similar to LA, kind of close to LA. You've been to LA before, obviously. How do you feel about the dating atmosphere in general? Have you had what have your experiences been like um in that type of environment, especially being a tourist who is someone who's typically a little more grounded and realistic about how life is?

San Diego Vs LA Dating Realities

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, great question. Honestly, the dating scene in San Diego sucks. Like, it's it's honestly horrible. Like, if you go down to I mean, it depends where you're looking, obviously, but like all of the bars in San Diego, like you're just gonna find loser after loser, honestly. Like, I mean, and I mean that's the nicest thing I could say about it.

SPEAKER_04 2:54

But they're like buff losers, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Isn't there a lot of like hardly?

SPEAKER_04 2:57

I thought San Diego was on like tall buffers military.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Let me know when you find them. No. Okay, so yes, there's like two categories of men. There's like, you know, the military guys who will like just ruin your life. And then no, I mean that. And then there's just like the losers that think because they bought you a drink, like you owe them the world. Um, but I'm like not even one to talk because honestly, I met my boyfriend on Hinge, which like is kind of embarrassing to say out loud, but um everything was very aligned. Like, actually the day after we like matched or whatever, which I'm whatever, I'm almost anti-dating dating apps, but um the day after we met, we like physically ran into each other, which was like fate, it felt like. But the dating scene is honestly it's rough out there. How is it in LA? Like, honestly, probably the same.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

I mean, I love it. Yeah, yeah, it's not the most stable for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I think from the girls' perspective in LA, there's just so many like everybody is trying to pretend someone they're not. They're pretending they know this person, they're pretending they can get you into this party or introduce you to somebody. And like, I think when girls first move here, if they're not aware of that, it's like they get like hardened very fast, right? And they find out enough guys who are just full of shit, or of course, whatever, and then of course, you know, either two streets, they're like either become super jaded and negative and just like fuck everybody, or they become like super like dialed in and they just like are very intelligent on like reading people, like it teaches you to read people very strongly, and then they're just like, Okay, I'll just like know when someone's full of shit from the get-go. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yeah, that's something I'm very big on, like discernment, being able to read a room. Like, I feel like that's one thing that you almost can't teach is like being able to walk in a room and like feel the energy and like know how to almost like show up in that space. Um, but honestly, I think what you what you put out into the universe is what you get. So I think if you're looking in the right places, I almost think you in order to like properly date, you really can't be like seeking anything outside of yourself, it just kind of has to like fall into alignment. Um, but like my you know, my sister's obviously like in the in the dating scene, and it's just it's rough. I feel like LA that's that's so spot on of like the two avenues

Fate On Hinge And Alignment

SPEAKER_00 5:14

of one one just being like you know, everybody's name-dropping and trying to say the right things and impress people. San Diego's not like that actually. Um, but I will say a lot of the time things just look like too good to be true. So like the men will be like, you know, check all the boxes and then later on it's like whatever, you're just like one of many or something like that. But um, I'm happy to not be not be looking looking to date in the San Diego scenes.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

Yeah. And so what were your did you date anybody before your current boyfriend?

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, I did. Um, I've had not a lot of relationships, but I would say like for my age that I've been in like some pretty meaningful, like, you know, intense relationships. Um, I had a couple boyfriends before, and it really like taught me to be the woman I am today and continue to show up properly in my current relationship. Um, they all just like my first boyfriend was the worst. If I sat here and told you the whole story, we'd be here for hours. Um we are here for hours. No, let me get into it. Um, but again, and I before I say any of this, like these situations obviously don't define me, but they did for a while. And I think when you're young and you know you're in love, I think both of you can think back to like, you know, that kind of lustful, intense energy. You just like you think that's it. Like you think that that's that's what it should be like and feel like. And he hooked up with every single one of my best friends periodically throughout high school. And I think like that betrayal, just like losing my very best friends.

SPEAKER_04 6:49

Like, think of

Reading Rooms And Dating With Intention

SPEAKER_04 6:50

while you were together or afterward.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

It was messy. I'll spare you. Some were while we were together, some were during breaks, but all of it was to hurt me, and all of it was like my very close best bestest friends, if you will. Um, and I think just slowly losing like your support systems um was probably the hardest part. I think it was just like one after the other. Um, and I take full responsibility for like the lack of boundaries that I set in that relationship. I very much move through life like I'm not setting a boundary until life makes me. Like I rather kind of move and I I think I think everything needs to be learned. And I think a lot of it has to be like actually your own experience. I think you can tell someone a million times, like, hey, this is bad for you, but until something bad happens to them, they can't really like accept that and then move differently. Um and so I think I just I always moved like that. Like, you know, I rather I rather life tell me no than like me tell life no almost, um, which caused me to just have like no boundaries and it definitely made people walk all over me. Um, so he was he was horrible. Um and then my boyfriend after that, we were just very codependent. I feel like I had all the like the buckets of boyfriends. Um we just like we were bad for each other because we just you know, we just didn't do good things together. We weren't productive, we didn't help each other grow. Um, and then like the the one in between those those two, I don't even count. He was just the worst. He was just that was just a situation where he wanted to be with me and I just said yes kind of thing because I was young. Um, but all that's to say is that I really learned how to heal and also just like not tie I think like the end goal of every relationship is not like forever, right? And it's really helped me show up

First Loves, Betrayal, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 8:48

in my current relationship with just like pure presence and intent. Like I want to choose you every day, and that's that. And I try to be like that with other like relationships in my life and other habits. Um but yeah, so those are my my previous experiences, but I'm very, very happy now to be in such a loving, equal relationship.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:11

So have you heard of three loves theory?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

No, tell me more.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

So the theory is there's you'll have three big, big loves in your life. You'll have the first one, which is the one, like you were kind of saying, where you're like, you don't know what you don't know, you think it's gonna last forever because it's the first time you've experienced it, and then it doesn't work out. Then second one is the toxic love, and that's the one that teaches you all the lessons. So it's kind of like bad things happen, and at the end of the second one, you figure out the type of person that you actually want in a relationship. Like maybe you used to think, oh, I want someone who's obsessed with me, and then you date somebody who's obsessed with you, and you figure out, oh wait, this kind of like sucks, actually. Yeah, actually, I want someone who's kind of independent, you know what I mean? You figure out all the little things that you actually want in a relationship, so that when you meet the third person, which is your soulmate, you're like, Oh, I actually know the type of person that I want, and then I can meet the right person. Where if you meet your soulmate too early, then it's like, oh, I didn't even know this is the right person for me because the things I thought I wanted in a relationship, they don't fulfill, but actually I do want the things they're able to like bring to a relationship.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Why have I never heard of this theory? What is this about?

SPEAKER_04 10:23

No, it's super, yeah, you should definitely look into it. I will, I will.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

I think I think with every relationship, I really, you know, you kind of like lose yourself and you find yourself again. Um, and it's really important. If I've learned anything, I've learned it's really important to have a life outside of your relationships, whether that's you know, romantic or just like platonic ones. Um, but really like investing in yourself will always compound. And I think having someone that supports you and wants to see you grow is so important because I look back and even in those buckets I can really see it. Um, but I think if you can't ask yourself, do they love me as a person more than as a significant other, and you can't answer that with confidence, like then that's something to look at because I think all my previous my previous boyfriends, they really loved me as a girlfriend. They loved me for what I meant to them, but they didn't love me as a person and enough to want to see me grow and thrive outside of them. And that was always a red flag looking back and like a common theme. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:30

And so the first one that hooked up with all your friends or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Like, like I I it it always is bizarre because I hear these stories a lot from girls, you know, and it's like if Mo like had a long-term girlfriend or anything, even to the short-term girlfriend, and they broke up, like, there's no way I would go anywhere near her. You know what I mean? Of course, but it happens all the time with girls. Why do you think it is so much more common with girls? Do you think there's like a psychological thing? Like a more competitiveness or a jealousy or something like that? Like girls getting cheated on more, or more girls like girls who like hook up with the ex of a friend or even uh some of their friends dating. Where I feel like it happens less with guys.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Low-key, true, like a guy, guys low-key, like are good about that. Um, honestly, I can't answer that. Um, I think so. I have a poetry book um that I self-pub self-published um last year. It's called We're All the Same. And it really just explores, like, obviously, love, lost, humanity, all the things. But I think that when you get hurt, you do everything you can to put distance between

Codependency And Redefining Love

SPEAKER_00 12:40

you and that hurt. So whether that's a person or a thing, right? You think I would never do that to someone. I could never, you could never do that to Mo, right? Like you just think of all the the ways that you can put distance between you and that pain. And I think really inviting myself and challenging myself as a person to say, like, how are we similar here? And obviously the book is called We're All the Same, but that was the hardest part was understanding that. Zach was was putting myself in those shoes and being like, How could somebody do that? Right. And not just one girlfriend, like five of them. Um, I honestly can't answer that. I think lust and you know, lust when you're young and somebody showing interest in you can just be dangerous. Um, I also think the type of person my ex was was very like just flirtatious and big. Um, and I think when he gave you attention, like it it made people stop. So I think it's just a mix of like where that person is in terms of security, right? Because if they're seeking some if they're seeking male attention, like and they're getting that from somewhere and they know they shouldn't be, like they're gonna give in to lust. Like um, but I I guess just I guess lust, and then I think because it, you know, it was so many girls. I think at that point it was just like hopping on the bandwagon almost, like literally, I don't know. Um, but he was the common denominator, and I think he was more malicious than he set out. I teeter-totter between like he was stupid and young and a man. And then I'm like that was calculated a lot of the time. Like there were there was one girl he hooked up with, he said, I thought it was you, right? And he's looking at me in the he's looking at me in my two eyes, I'm like this, right, right, right. And then I like took him back. So it was like, and those are times that I look back where I I really see now why I'm skipping over that.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

I thought it was you.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

And I'm looking at him like, bro, like try something else, like try something else.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

Um, and we've been together for years. I am.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yeah, I'm like, oh right. But again, I really take full responsibility for the lack of boundaries I set. Like, I think I really truly think that like coming of age is just honestly becoming more picky and like learning what you like. Like, think about it. Like when you're young, like it's just kind of like whatever, whatever sticks. And then as you age, it's like, no, I actually don't like sauce on my burgers. Everything from that to like the type of people you want to be around. Like, um, but all that's to say is I I think he was just he just tried to hurt me. And I will say that like I we were just so like everything was so heightened with us, and I think we just had a lot of like I guess eyes on us internally. Like, we were just kind of, you know, I mean that that got around, right? And that just made me so uncomfortable. Was that like my you know, all of my business constantly felt like it was plastered everywhere, and I felt really misunderstood. And I feel like that was what was so frustrating was just feeling misunderstood because it's not like this came out like oh he cheated on her. It was always

Three Loves Theory And Growth

SPEAKER_00 15:36

in a gray space. I think when things are in a gray space, it's much harder, right?

SPEAKER_04 15:39

Like if you're not boundaries and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Like if you're if you're cheated on, like point blank cheated on, like that was wrong, that's completely different than if it was like, you know, in a break or like something like that. And I feel like it was always a gray space, which led me to never like almost validating it, made me not validate those experiences as much because we were on a break, or because I didn't say no, and it you know what I mean? Like I always felt like because it was so gray that I couldn't feel the ways that I was feeling, um, especially because I felt so isolated in my experiences, and which again really led me to later on in college write write my book, um, was just finding like common ground with people. I think if you walk into situations and you've already told yourself that you're the only one that's experienced this, you're just setting yourself up for failure. Like you're if you can't relate to people and understand that they may have not gone through the same experiences, but they've learned the same things, then you're just shutting yourself off to a whole world. Um obviously it took a long time to get there, but um, I'm really grateful and I wouldn't change it for the world. Um and you know, I I don't think about those experiences, I don't think about those people. It's something I laugh at now. But obviously, like if anything, my relationship after was almost harder because I felt like I was like healing from two relationships after him because we were so codependent. I felt like I lost my best friend, right? Um but I think anybody that's ever been wronged or cheated on with someone that was a friend to them, it's just like the ultimate betrayal. You just it's it's really hard to trust people again. Um and that's exactly what happened. I I, you know, all of this took place and I went to college and I was scared and I knew nobody, and I, you know, I showed up to the parties, I did the thing, um, and nothing stuck. And it it made me feel really hard to be friends with. It made me feel like hard to love. I know that's cliche, but it really did. And um just learning how to like invest in myself again and trust myself again really set the foundation for like everything that made me who I am today and all the people that I would like meet along the way. So not me rhyming, not me.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

Natural poet.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

I know, I know, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:58

Um, then did did the poetry book come as a result of like some of these kind of toxic relationships? Is that what gave you the fuel to write from?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yeah, great question. I think so. Again, going into college, so all of that happened. I had, you know, those those bad previous relationships. I just felt lost, hard to love, all the things. And I was really ready to turn over a new leaf going

Loving The Person, Not The Role

SPEAKER_00 18:22

into college. And I really tried to, you know, get into the the party scene or whatever, you know. I went to SDSU um and I didn't want to do the whole Greek life thing, so I already felt like I was disadvantaged a little bit. Um, but I went in with an open mind and just really willing to try anything and you know make friends and all the things, and I I still couldn't escape like all of the things. I I I just felt trapped in my own body. Um, and that's when I started writing. I really just I would sit by we have like a turtle pond at the school, and I would sit by the turtle pond every day and just write. And actually one day, we have like slack liners, you know, like the it's like a tightrope and they like walk across the slack line. Um and we had these slack liners, and I wrote a poem about it. Mind you, I'd never written poetry, and I I just like I opened my notebook and like started writing. I'm not even really sure. And I wrote a poem about um these slack liners and how I saw them, you know, every time someone would walk by, they'd ask them if they wanted to try. Like they just seemed like they moved through life so effortlessly and made friends so easily, and you know, they seemed like they walked through life barefoot and would never step on something, right? Like they just they looked like untouchable almost in such a grounded way. And, you know, I shared the poem with them, and that was really scary. And later, a kid in my class was talking about some girl that wrote a poem about these slackliners, and I realized it was me. And it was really cool and it was really exciting, and I kept writing. Um, fast forward all of college, I kept writing, and um, during my last like winter finals, I opened up my Google Doc of like all my writings, and I realized I had like 200 pages. Um, some of it was like chicken scratch, but um I realized I'd had enough enough for a book, and I really just wanted to put everything behind me. Um, like you said, Zach, it was inspired by a lot of of what you know happened in high school, but I think what I really challenged myself to do was like use the story as the vessel for the message, like and everything I wrote. Yes, it's specific, but I think that anyone can read it and resonate with a part of it. And so I know like Tyler the Creator has like a saying where it's like create like a kid, edit like a scientist, and that was way harder. I think writing came easy to me. It was just one of those things. But I think actually diving back in, you know, at the end of my college career and rereading these poems and trying to polish them or make them end on a happy note was really hard. Like you just feel like you're diving back into a space that you're no longer in. Like, even with artists, like when they when they write albums or make music, a lot of the time obviously there's a delay with when they write it to when it comes out. And I always think about how you know they're being praised for something that they put so much work into years before. And I think being able to like talk about and polish a really painful part of your life and continue to make it resonate later on is really empowering. Um, so yes, I would say a lot of it's inspired by my previous experiences and kind of like how I got over them. Again, like love lost humanity, but it's also about challenging yourself to resonate with the things that once hurt you and try to find common ground in order to heal.

SPEAKER_04 21:42

So

Gray Areas, Consequences, And Standards

SPEAKER_04 21:44

yeah, I think you're doing it right. I heard this story about Michael Jackson and one of his most famous albums, I can't remember which one it was, they wrote a hundred songs and recorded all of them to whittle it down to like 15 to 20 that actually went on the album.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 21:59

But it's like To get that great of like a masterpiece, you have to just like have the 200 pages of Google Docs and then you have to edit. And you have to, okay, we gotta leave this out. Okay, this part is good, but we have to fix it. It's not, it's just not hitting quite the way it should hit. Um, was that something you consciously did or you kind of figured out along the way?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

I think that when I dove back into it, obviously, like I'm just looking at a a Google Doc of everything I've ever thought, everything I've ever written. It was different every day. So, like some days I would just open the Google Doc. Like sometimes that was all I could do. I would get overwhelmed, I don't want to do this. And some days I would polish and fix and combine like 20 poems. So I think just like one thing that I really focused on was not making writing feel like a chore. And I think that's something with hobbies that's that's really important to keep in mind is like you don't have to be good at everything. And I feel like it's such human nature to like not want to do things that you're not good at. Um, but I really took the pressure off of writing when it came to like polishing it up. So I think part of it came natural because you know, after rereading them and sitting with it, some just made sense together and some made obvious sense to scratch. But I think there were some that I sat with for days of like, I just read it too many times. It's like saying a word too many times, and you're like, I don't even know what this word means anymore. Like some of them I was afraid they wouldn't resonate, but the book was for me. The book was 100% for me. I didn't, you know, do much marketing of it. I just, it was something that was just, it felt like I was like taking off my baggage and leaving it, leaving it before I graduated college. And it was really important for me coming out of college and you know, post grad's hard enough, but starting a full-time job, right? I really wanted to be able to heal and move forward. And I feel like putting it all in a book and like and just polishing that up was so powerful and so beautiful to say, like, this doesn't define me. And these are the themes and the um moments that I can come back to if I need to. Um and I read it and I'm really, I'm really proud of it. I think. And there's some stuff that's even just about like girlhood and um just like growing up, and I feel like I'll come back to those a lot within my lifetime and resonate with you know, my thought patterns that I had when I was 18, 19.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

So yeah, I'm sure it'll be kind of cool when you're like 60. I know come back and be like, oh yeah, like I was thinking like like this is my mindset at the time, like now I know so much more, and now I'm like, oh, like this is actually a good way to think about or this is not, or you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

100%.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

So yeah. What do you mean by girlhood?

SPEAKER_00 24:32

So I think as you age, and obviously I'm I'm young, um, I think there's just moments where you you realize you realize your age, and I I have a a lot of poems of just just even about, and I think the LA scene's actually a perfect example of this of like how people portray themselves and how you internalize that and how that makes you feel about yourself, right? And so I think just like being a girl and everything that comes with it, um, there's just moments where you pull strength from women, and there's a lot of moments where you feel like it's you know, it's almost taken from you because of the way you're perceiving something. Like you you'll just feel

Writing As Healing: Birth Of A Book

SPEAKER_00 25:12

less empowered sometimes. And a lot of the poems that explore like the themes of girlhood really are just like about you know, braiding my hair when I was younger and looking at my painted walls and just you know, putting on my my earrings like I did when I was a kid, and finding that youth every day, whether I'm you know, 21, 16, or 60, like just finding that space to like pour into myself and do it in a way that's magical. Like even when I'm putting on makeup or lighting a candle, like how am I just nurturing myself and you know, fueling my confidence and all the things? So girlhood, yes, I think a lot of the ways it comes out in the book is like, you know, I I brush my curly hair vibes, but like I think anyone can resonate with a lot of these themes because it's very much just the ways that my youth applies to my adulthood and the ways that I wish it did, or the ways that I miss it as I age and you know, as responsibilities continue to um I wouldn't I wouldn't say add add to my plate because like I wanted to eat, so um I'm not mad about it, but I definitely think you look back and you you didn't realize what you what you had when you were younger.

SPEAKER_05 26:31

So do you think as you're getting older you're losing your femininity?

SPEAKER_00 26:35

No, I actually think the opposite. I think and also I feel really grateful to have um such a great boyfriend, honestly, and such a great support system. Like me and my sister really are best friends. Like we're the same shoe size, like we we do all the things, like we get ready together. I think there's ways that we really keep it alive. Um, but I've noticed how much like softer I've become with like just the proper love. And that really started with me. Like, obviously, I feel grateful that my environment supports that, but like I can't emphasize how much that I, you know, I did. I mean, I first of all I dyed my hair, I had a septum piercing, like hair down to my butt, like, you know, the worst vibe ever. Like, I did all of the opposite things that of like, you know, the traditional like feminine woman. And I now find myself, you know, reintegrating that as I become more comfortable with myself. But I think growing up, obviously you have all the different phases. Um, and I think I steered away from my femininity as like a form of protection almost. Um, and I think a lot of women and a lot of people do that, they'll just steer away from their sense of self to like try to navigate better um just to come back to their themselves. But no, I would say I'm probably the most feminine I've ever been, and I just mean that in the sense that I've I've softened my energy and I've I just feel the most comfortable with myself than ever, probably.

SPEAKER_05 27:56

So when you said that five of your best friends slept with your ex. And and you said there was there was all often a gray area. What do you what do you mean by that? When when a gray area being like you were on breaks at times. So then you were on breaks.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Well, honestly, I like disassociated a lot of that period of my life.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

We were we were very on and off. Um, but yes, a lot of it was like we either weren't quite together or we just broke up or we were together, but like, you know, they kind of asked me and I was like, whatever, like weird.

SPEAKER_05 28:39

Your friend?

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:40

So there was a lot of weird times where So your friend asked you if you guys should if if they could sleep with your boyfriend and you said yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Some of it wasn't sleeping with him, some of it was like everything in between. Um, and I more was just like uncomfortable and kind of like shrugged it off, thinking that like they wouldn't, or like I I'm a really big believer in like I'm never gonna tell somebody what to do because I think the fact that you want to do it is already weird, but I'm not gonna tell you no because now I know your intentions. And I know that sounds backward and that sounds weird. Like, if obviously if somebody comes up to you and says, Can I sleep with your boyfriend? You're gonna be like, fuck no. But like, are you stupid? But I mean, I was very young, and I think that I at the time

Editing Pain Into Meaning

SPEAKER_00 29:20

was just very like naive and and looking back, I always kind of thought it wasn't serious. Like, I always was like, they're not gonna, like, they're just kind of fucking around, like whatever. Um, and it was always obviously intoxicated. Um, but that gray area was different for each each girl. There was some, like, for example, one of my best friends at the time, I didn't find out till I after college that they were hooking up the whole time, apparently, right? Allegedly, who knows? And what did you find out? How did I find out? So I was actually like I had a really close guy friend, and his ex was the girl that my ex was sleeping with. So, like, we were close friends and our exes were getting together all of all of high school. And he told me. So he was like, Can you? I mean, he was more emotional about it than I was because at this point I'm like, you know, back of the line. Like, yeah, what you're right, I'm like perfect, like it. Um, and he was kind of like, Can you believe it? kind of thing. I'm like, actually, yeah, I can't believe it. Um, but all I mean by that gray area is I am definitely partially to blame in in terms of I didn't set boundaries.

SPEAKER_05 30:27

Um and I think if you said yeah, sure, you could sleep with my boyfriend or yeah, it was never that clear.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

It was more like I didn't say no.

SPEAKER_05 30:35

Like things would just happen around me and I would if it happens the first time, right? And then and then you're cool with the guy afterwards and you're just like, hey, well, it is what it is, right? Then the second time, because there's no repercussions, and if 100% if somebody doesn't feel like there is repercussions for their actions, they'll continue doing the same thing over and over until there is repercussions.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah, you couldn't be more right. I really taught people how to treat me, and that's something I regret. Yeah. Um, and it's something I take full accountability for. At the time I couldn't, and it's not like I was like, this is all your fault. I very much just like, you know, put room between me and those people. And I think something that really hurt a lot of my girlfriends was me taking him back. And it's something I look back at that now I can see very clearly. I'm like, you know, from their perspective, it's like he was more to blame almost. And but the thing is, I had so much love for my friends, and he was just someone I was in love with at the time. And when people would ask me, I'm like, I'm not in love with these girls. Like, I'm not in love with my friends. Like, that's how I can forgive him, is because I'm in love with him and I want to be with him, right? At the time. And that's not to say that I'm not, you know, that I'm putting a man over my girlfriends because it was never that. I often was friends with these girls for, you know, a year like years after. Like, I I never just cut them off. Um, but I think looking back, I can see how they took that as like, you know, how are you friends with with him or how are you cool with him, but like you're not talking to me. And I think that that judgment for how I was like choosing to heal was so frustrating. And I think just like, you know, being on the internet, some somebody always has something to say.

Girlhood, Femininity, And Softness

SPEAKER_00 32:08

And I felt like that's how my life was at a very young age, but like all just with my close friends. Like somebody always had something to say about the way that I was healing or the lack of I oftentimes was just like quiet and things would get spread around and misconstrued. Um, but yes, a lot of it was a gray, gray space. A lot of it I was there for. So I was at these parties. I was like kind of watching it happen, and I was just like, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna step in here. But I was never someone to like check a phone, I'm still not like I really am just big on like the truth will come out, I don't have to intervene. It makes me very uncomfortable to have people like choose sides or like choose me, or like I just never wanted that. So that also led me to just be very like hands back, like almost freeze in situations like that.

SPEAKER_05 32:55

Um, but if you found out your boyfriend now cheated on you, what's the reaction?

SPEAKER_00 33:03

I would leave him and would you? I would, I would, I would.

SPEAKER_05 33:07

Do you believe you?

SPEAKER_00 33:08

I believe me. Put right hand on the Bible lie detector test. Like I I think I think that that's the way to learn. I think, and again, we're we're talking this was like five or six years ago.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Which is long or short, depending on how you look on look at it. But like I can't emphasize how much I've stopped and like learned from those situations. Like, these aren't things that will continue to follow me. If anything, I'm very lucky and very grateful that I was what 16, 17, like learning these things because But how did you learn these things exactly?

SPEAKER_05 33:38

Like, what is how did what is the process because okay, when when things when when experiences happen, right? There's there's multiple different routes for people to go to, which is some people learn from it in a positive manner, some people learn from it in a negative manner. Yeah. And so when your personality is shaped, it more so there's a catalyst. But then how how you learn from those experiences are based upon something or someone that is in your life that's giving you the influence of trying to understand what's going on. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 34:13

So the assumption at this point would be that you made these mistakes, quote unquote. But who told you that they're mistakes?

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Oh, me. I always knew that these were mistakes. Based on what? Based on the way it felt. Okay. Based on the repercussions, based on just the clarity that came after. Um yeah. I think like it couldn't have been more clear that these were mistakes, but I th and I think though, like like going into it, like, you know, I knew that these were decisions that I wouldn't want to make going down the road, but I also know the type of person I am, and sometimes I had to learn twice or three times or five times in order to look back and say, I would never make that mistake again because I saw how it panned out. So I would say the ways that I learned and like kind of you know, I guess the influence that had on me was just the the distance it brought it took me so far outside of myself and everything that I knew and everything that I loved, and having to navigate back to a new version of myself really showed me like how not detrimental because it taught me, but how incorrect I was moving and how all of the choices I made led me to where I where I was and where I had to heal from. So now if something like that were to happen, I would understand that that has nothing to do with me and that it's not an environment that I want to partake in. I'm not I'm not doing this with you. Like I, you know what I mean? Like I think if I were to be cheated on again, I would obviously it would hurt, but I would be very detached in a way of like, I'm not doing this,

Defining Cheating And Respect

SPEAKER_00 36:00

like I'm not, we're not playing this game. Like, I I don't want to be with someone that would give in to temptation or that would, you know, because what does that show him, right? Like going back to everything that we just talked about and what I learned, like that would just show him what I'm willing to tolerate, and I'm simply not willing to tolerate that. It would also turn me off from the whole situation. Like, I think naturally I would be less inclined to the whole the whole thing. I would just be like, this is not what I want.

SPEAKER_05 36:30

What is cheating?

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Good question. Um you know, I'm pretty like for how gray all of those situations were, I'm pretty black and white in terms of like what is cheating, what is not. Um, especially with the internet. Like, I mean, I could ask you both the same what you think is cheating. Um, but I think anything you wouldn't do around your significant other is like a good bucket to to put it in, I would say. And but I don't mean like flirting. I don't think flirting is cheating.

SPEAKER_05 37:00

I don't think like well see that's that's a very uh clear distinction of what isn't what isn't, because some people would argue Would you different would I what?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Argue that flirting is cheating?

SPEAKER_05 37:12

I think it all depends on the on the values that you that that you have with your partner.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:17

Right? So but but I think it's very important to determine what those values are. So in your case, if you're saying flirting is not cheating, then is flirting in person not cheating or flirting on text is not cheating. Or both.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Both. But I think flirting and on text is different because I feel like you really have to be more conscious about it, whereas sometimes you can be caught in situations in person. Not that you can't walk away or make decisions, but I think flirting on text is more intentional. Um so if I had to like pick, I think that would be I think that'd be closer to cheating than something in person.

SPEAKER_05 37:59

Are you are you saying these are you are you putting these standards based upon your own personality?

SPEAKER_00 38:06

I guess just like in my eyes, like not common sense, but like, you know, what's what it's worth. Like to me, like obviously I I'm with somebody that I trust and that I believe wouldn't embarrass me or himself in like a flirting situation. Um, like I trust him 100%. I also trust like me to be able to like discern that if I was ever in that situation, right? Depends on the context um and like how intense that flirting is. But yeah, I don't I don't think so so Yeah, ask me the question again.

SPEAKER_05 38:43

Let's say a guy comes up to you and says, Oh my god, you look so beautiful. Okay, he's clearly flirting with you, yes. Okay, and then you respond and you say, Oh, thank you so much, you're so handsome. Oh is this flirting? This is flirting. Okay, this is flirting. Um, have you crossed the line yet? Have you as a as a as a as the woman in this situation?

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Well, taking myself outside of this, because I would never do that. It's always like a thank you so much, have a good night, walk away, right?

SPEAKER_05 39:11

Like you're but then you're not flirting.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

That's not flirting, no.

SPEAKER_05 39:14

But so if you don't say anything, you're not flirting.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

But if you do Yeah, if you're engaging in the conversation and you can tell that their intentions are less than friendly, uh-huh, that's incorrect. You're not showing up correctly.

SPEAKER_05 39:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Do I think that's cheating? No. Do I think it's do I think it's wrong? Yes.

SPEAKER_05 39:30

Okay. So if your boyfriend went and said that to another girl and said, hey, I think you're so uh beautiful, then at that point you would be upset, but you're not, but he hasn't cheated yet.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

No, yeah, he hasn't cheated.

SPEAKER_05 39:42

And so so so okay, what would be the response? So so then at that point, because you said flirting is okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

So so now Well, wait, I didn't say it was okay, I just don't think it's cheating.

SPEAKER_05 39:53

Okay, go let me like to clarify. So flirting is not okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

No, I don't I think that goes without saying, but I do I think it's cheating, no. But I don't think somebody has to cheat on you for you to feel betrayed or disrespected. So sure.

SPEAKER_05 40:07

So then at that point you would have the conversation, hey, don't do this again.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah, of course, of course. I would hope that that would never even have to get there, but right.

SPEAKER_05 40:14

Um, now let's say a girl comes up and hits on your boyfriend and says, Hey, um, you're so hot, we should hang out. Okay. And your boyfriend says, Oh, thank you so much. So far, he hasn't flirted, he hasn't done anything wrong. But then he comes to you and says, Hey, um, so I'm friends with this girl and like she wants to grab lunch.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Oh god.

SPEAKER_05 40:41

So I'm gonna go to lunch with her. Has he done anything wrong yet?

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Is it bad that I would say like well, okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:51

It's not good or bad, it's just whatever your rules are.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

If if we're both under the impression that this girl is not trying to be friends with him, and he's You're not under impression of anything.

SPEAKER_05 41:03

You're just I don't know anything. I just trying to meet up with like a new one. He knows this information, he

Fetishes, Secrets, And Honesty

SPEAKER_05 41:10

knows that she's hit on him, but she doesn't he doesn't tell you this. He just says, Hey, there's this girl I'm friends with, she wants to hang out, we're gonna go grab lunch.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

I mean, I would say no problem, have fun. If I didn't know the previous context, sure, he would be in the wrong. I mean, because then I would have to ask, is his intention friendly? Because if he knows he's going to hang out with a new person, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:31

So he goes there and he sits there and he's he's just having a conversation with this girl. And now he still isn't doing anything. And she's there, she's like, Oh my god, you're so hot, you should leave your girlfriend for me, and all these things. And and he's like, I love my girlfriend, but like, you know, thank you so much. I appreciate it. We could be friends though.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Safe, clear, still good. I don't care.

SPEAKER_05 41:54

Okay, so all of that is good, but the only thing that he's done wrong is just hasn't told you this.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 42:01

Right. Is that correct? Yeah, correct. But he hasn't cheated.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Correct.

SPEAKER_05 42:07

Yeah? Okay. So now they're texting each other.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Okay. This is so specific. I'm dying.

SPEAKER_05 42:13

I mean because because we're really walking me through this, though. Because because we hear all types of stories of like what people consider cheating and what people don't consider cheating. Right. And I think there is there is uh I mean I have my own theories of like, you know, what's what's natural of human behavior and what's not. Of course. But the reality of it is that for somebody like you, right, who has been through this um I don't I don't particularly want to call it being stabbed in the back because a lot of those situations I feel like you allowed to happen. So it's kind of hard for me to justify that like those people did anything wrong when you kind of didn't really have the boundaries set to begin with, right? Um, but I do feel like you were in an environment where it should make you more jaded to feel like you can't trust people, right? But then but then it seems like based upon these scenarios that I'm throwing at you that you're a lot more understanding that than than otherwise you could have been. Yes, of course. But is that because you trust your boyfriend now that you're responding this way, or is that because you've worked on yourself to be trusting and not allow okay both, and thank you for that context.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

And one, I do want to clarify obviously that was a synopsis. You're on the money about like not setting boundaries, but I will clarify that I assume the best of these people, and that was the headspace that I was always in. Even if they wronged me in the past, I always I always was naive to the fact that they would hurt me. So I think, yes, there's a gray space of what was wrong and what wasn't because of the lack of boundaries, but I also think you shouldn't have to tell someone not to sleep with your boyfriend. Like there were certain times where. It was just it was black and white. And there's certain there were certain girls where it was very clearly cheating and very horrible and all the things. And they tried to ruin my reputation instead of just apologizing. Whatever, whatever. But I think coming out of that, right, I never wanted to let that affect necessarily relationships following. And I'll catch myself. Like for example, you know, my my boyfriend moved to Paris this week, which is so exciting for him, and I'm so happy for him. And I didn't have a worry in my head because I really put a lot of energy into like healing from those situations and not letting that affect my approach moving forward, which was really important because I think if a lot of people really stopped and tried to like you know come to terms with what has happened and not victimize themselves, that we'd we'd be a better society and it there wouldn't be so much projection and just you know patterns that continue to affect more and more people. Um but I really stopped because I never wanted to show up in my relationships falling, whether that was with girlfriends, um, and just like making new new friends in college or you know, a relationship. So I think mainly it's because I really put the work into trust myself and to understand and and this is a whole nother thing that I didn't even mention, but one of my previous boyfriends, not the the cheating on me with five girls one, um, but the one that we were we were very codependent. He I had a dream one night of him and this girl, and it was so vivid, it was so clear. And when I brought it to him, we weren't together, by the way. We had broken up, but we were still doing the thing. You know, everybody does the thing with the ex for a while after. Um I I did, I I'm guilty, guilty. Um and I had this vivid dream, and I come to him and I'm like, Isn't this crazy? Like, isn't this the craziest dream? Like, you know, it was this date, this is exactly what I saw, and he's like, That's so crazy, right? That's so crazy. Um mind

Why Threesomes Aren’t For Her

SPEAKER_00 46:08

you, I'll skip over this, but he accused me of sleeping with his best friend, which I had never, which was not the case. And again, feeling misunderstood was something that really rubbed me the wrong way. Like, I would do anything to just like get the story straight. And that's something I don't do now. Like, some people are dedicated to misunderstanding you, and you have to understand that, right? And it's something I'm even learning in like a workplace and learning as I age. Like, sometimes people don't want to understand you, and you have to be okay with it. And that was something that was really hard for me. Anyways, he accused me of sleeping with his best friend at the time. It didn't happen. I was very frustrated. Then this dream happened. I come to him. But anyways, the whole thing ended up being true down to the same date I had this dream. Um, and it was very crazy. And I really learned to like invest into my, you know, intuitive like moments. Um, and that's just all all this is to say that the more I trusted myself, the more the universe rewarded me, and the more that I was able to like discern situations. So I think now I'm never gonna like check a phone. I'm still never going to, you know, obviously I can set a boundary and I I, you know, I'm with a partner that knows right from wrong, and like we're already starting off on better grounds, but uh it hasn't made me necessarily more controlling or more cautious because these are new people, these are new situations, and I'm gonna let one thing be one thing. Yes, I'm gonna learn, and yes, I'm gonna take away things that will help me now, but I'm not gonna let it define this. Um and I hope that I continue to move like move through life like that, not letting my past define my present, but letting it help, letting it guide me.

SPEAKER_05 47:49

So so far you haven't had any dreams of like hot French models throwing themselves at your boyfriend.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

No, but and if anything, I'm just jealous, right? Like I'm just jealous, but no, no, I trust him, and honestly, like anything that's gonna happen is outside of my control.

SPEAKER_05 48:04

How old is he?

SPEAKER_00 48:05

He's he just turned 21.

SPEAKER_05 48:06

Oh, okay. So you guys you guys are pretty much the same age. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

But he's still in college, so we lived very different lives because I have a nine to five, um, and he's like, you know, in college.

SPEAKER_05 48:16

So hypothetically speaking, if you were to check a phone, how would you do it?

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Ooh, good question. My sister's like the type to check a phone. Love her to death. She's like the best person ever, but she's like How old is she? She's 23, and she's like the epitome of can I be a bitch for a second? And I'm like, please, please. Um, she's the type to look through a phone, but rightfully so. I mean, she if you think this story is bad, you should hear hers. Um I mean, God.

SPEAKER_05 48:43

Are you allowed to tell us?

SPEAKER_00 48:44

Oh my god. Just like it's literally not my story to tell. Um, but she checked his phone and found things that you'd never even believe. Not even like necessarily cheating. No, just like it involves like a Reddit situ it involves like a fetish. Okay, that didn't involve my sister at all.

SPEAKER_05 49:02

Well, okay. Here's uh Which like imagine what do you do in that situation?

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Like I would just die.

SPEAKER_05 49:07

That's actually an interesting thing, right? What is is our fetishes cheating?

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Ooh, that's such a good conversation. What do you think?

SPEAKER_04 49:19

Well, if you do. Well, yeah, no, you're right. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Are you acting on the fetish? Like, are you outside of that?

SPEAKER_05 49:25

It's it's it's hard for me to okay. Here's this is this is what I this is how I'd like to break this down, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 49:34

I I think people

Trust, Intuition, And Letting Truth Emerge

SPEAKER_05 49:36

individually have a lot of secrets regardless of who you are as a person, right? There are things that you will not tell other people, whether it's your best friend, whether it's your m mom, whether it's your dad, whatever, right? Imagine this. If you went to your mom and your dad and you said hundreds of stories that they never knew anything about, yeah, what would they feel? They would feel like they know nothing about their child. They would feel like they could never trust their child. They would feel like, why are they so um distant from their child? Does their child not not trust them? Right? But for you as the person who hasn't told your parents those stories, is because there's a level of respect that you don't want them to lose that they have for you. Spot on. There is a level of um j uh feeling judged by them that you don't want to feel, right? So you have your own reasons why you don't tell somebody a secret. And I think that those reasons carry on throughout our life, regardless of who we're interacting with. You don't go when you go to work and tell your boss everything about your life, right? Because it's none of their fucking business. Yeah, of course. And but there are some things that you do not tell your partner because you would not want them to lose respect for you. You don't want you don't want them to judge you, you don't know how they're gonna react.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:00

Right? And so I think when it comes to fetishes, there's there are all types of people with some weird shit that that they have to do. Oh, there's some weirdos, totally. No, sometimes it's very difficult to find someone that you know want the same, let's say, let's say I uh let's say let's say you you have a partner who wants to be pissed on, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:20

A little golden shower.

SPEAKER_05 51:21

Yeah, and and so if I if I'm their partner and I don't like doing that, right, and they tell me, hey, this is this is my thing, and I'm like, you're fucking disgusting, I'm out. Right?

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:33

So then if they're thinking, okay, he's not gonna be into this, and if I tell him this, he's gonna run away, but I love him, and I don't want this relationship to go to shit, then I'm just gonna keep this secret. And I'll get my kick some other way.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

What's that some other way?

SPEAKER_05 51:51

Like that's that's the conversation to have. It's like what's acceptable and what's not, right? If they're just watching YouTube videos, I mean I don't think they're YouTube videos, but if they're on the YouTube or my website for that. Oh my god, yeah, it's there's a different name for it, but watching some porn sites, or on Reddit, or whatever. I mean, I don't know what's on Reddit, but uh or on fucking Twitter or whatever, right? Like who am I to say, if I found out, like, who am I to say, hey? I mean, yes, you could you could be disgusted by it, and you could feel like obviously you're allowed to feel whatever it is that you're feeling, and you're like, okay, I don't want to be with this person anymore. But I would say that I would understand why, right? Yes, and and and I think there's a big distinction because because some people, and I'm not saying your sister did this, but like most people would take that information and they would go to the closest person to them and be like, Can you believe this person did this to me? Yeah, but in reality it's not about you, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

Yeah, she you know, had her own healing journey with that, and I will I'll be clear that it was it was crossing lines. Um, and there was obviously lying involved, and you know, he was interacting with it. It was an interactive moment for him. It wasn't just because I don't and some people, some of my friends, like they think like porn is cheating. Like, why would you let your boy what girl? What?

Body Count, Values, And Red Flags

SPEAKER_00 53:16

I'm so pro like whatever. Like, I don't think that that's even close to cheating. Um, but maybe that's just because I know what that feels like. That's so different, right? Like, if anything, I'm like, anyways, but all that's finish that sentence.

SPEAKER_05 53:30

No, no, I just mean like do your fucking thing, bro.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Like, yeah, like Craig, like who am I to judge you? Like, do I just think like I think that that's way too like taboo? Like, I'm very imagine being like a 20-year marriage, like bro, who cares like go get him tiger. No, literally go get him, Tiger. And also, like get him. No, I'm I'm very like pro that I'm not gonna say I'm not saying that. I'm just I don't think there's any problem with it. Like, I think, and even this is so random, but I'm watching The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives right now, which is like bottom of the barrel trash TV, in my opinion. It's just horrible, it's a hard watch, right? Um, the harder to watch, the better. Like sometimes I'll just get up, I've got a bad day, and I'm like, I can't wait for this like horrible media. Like, I can't wait for the the worst of the worst. Um, and anyways, and they're like sobbing about you know, like a porn addiction, which addictions like we're I won't even talk about that, but I just like I'm just like I can't believe that that's like viewed so I do think it's like a low vibrational activity. Like I'm not saying like do it every day, do it all the time, but I don't see it as an issue. And that's to say, going back to the conversation about like fetishes, you're completely on the money about like why you wouldn't want to tell somebody something if you know that it's gonna impact the way they view you negatively. But then you could just you could say that that's also like yes, it's justified, but it I mean it can be viewed like selfishly. If it's if it could potentially, or if it is affecting that person and you're not telling them to protect your own ass, like I mean, obviously that's a different conversation. But I think if you just like have the fetish and you're taking care of it in a way that's like not crossing a boundary, then you're absolutely fine. And I almost feel bad for that person that they they don't feel like that that would be accepted. I mean, depending on how you know outlandish it is in terms of like their partner, like obviously if they really know that that's like not something their partner wants to do, like and even like I've seen all the like you know, I I forget which one it was, but all of the like you know, temptation islands and the love islands of the world, like I forget which one it was, but I think there was one where he had like a fetish of like a threesome. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? Yes, yes, anyways, and he does it, and then he's like, wait, like, love you, like this like cured my my fetish. I'm like, okay, bro, like pack it up, but uh no, like there's like a level of like, alright, bro, but like um, I guess it just depends on how intense this fetish is and how much you're like taking care of business yourself. Like, I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 56:03

I don't like rule of thumb for me is I think I think when somebody's going into a relationship, uh a part of what I believe to be the standard of compatibility is being very open and clear about what your fetishes are and what it is that you like and what it is that you dislike. And if the person that you're with just doesn't understand them, then goodbye and just like move on to somebody who would. Yes. Because I think I think yeah I think it would be unhealthy to live life and be secretive about the things that you care about. Yes, 100%. Um

First-Date Standards And Momentum

SPEAKER_05 56:40

my it like one of my biggest things when when I started when I met my wife was I I just started like little by little just throwing little crumbs of like little microdists, yeah, just like what I liked here and there, and just see her reaction to it. Yes, you know, just start with like the small things and just see how she reacts, and then little by little kind of went to the crazy stuff and just like when I saw her react to it the way that she did, I was like, okay, well, this is just 100% she's my soulmate.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Like, there's no way that she's which I'm so happy for you.

SPEAKER_05 57:12

And so it I I I think I think just it it would be so much more healthier for somebody to to trust their own existence and and believe that if they're that way, that there's there's always going to be somebody that would be able to match their energy and be on the same vibe, you know. And so um you you but but it's interesting because you said something about threesomes. So would you ever have a threesome?

SPEAKER_00 57:40

No. Why is that well like because then it's like getting I don't feel the need. First of all, that's a lot of bodies, like that's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_04 57:53

No, no, like that's a lot, and also 150% the amount of bodies.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

That's a lot, and then like how do you show up? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 58:02

I feel like that's well, you show up normally because you're the one with your partner.

SPEAKER_00 58:06

Oh god, like no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 58:08

And then like you just show up ideally naked, because then you know that would be the idea.

SPEAKER_00 58:14

But so like, is am I suggesting this? Like in this context?

SPEAKER_05 58:18

There's no rules. You could either suggest that we've had no, me and my boyfriend.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

I'm sure you've had the conversation. No, no, no, not even that. This girl asked us if we needed a third, and now we just like joke about it all the time. Like anytime someone walks by one of us and like says something nice, something we're like, our third. Like, we'll always make jokes about that, but no, I don't feel the need.

SPEAKER_05 58:35

I feel so she wanted to be your third, and then you said what?

SPEAKER_00 58:38

We like laughed it off. We were just like and she asked again. She was like, Call me or something, and I was like, Okay, sugar, like something cute back, but obviously no.

SPEAKER_05 58:46

So, so but your boyfriend also also doesn't want to have a three son.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

No, not that I know of.

SPEAKER_05 58:51

Really?

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Not that I know of.

SPEAKER_05 58:52

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

Why are you making it sound like every man wants to? No, not that. Exactly. That's not true.

SPEAKER_05 58:59

Listen, not every man wants it.

SPEAKER_00 59:01

I'm not like this thought hasn't come to it.

SPEAKER_04 59:03

But a lot of men do. Every man does want it, but like they just recognize, okay, my girl doesn't want it, so then like I'm gonna respect that.

SPEAKER_05 59:11

No, I think there are men who are just like just don't want it at all. I think it's kind of just like if you think there's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_04 59:21

I feel like that's overstable.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

Like that's a lot of how that's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 59:25

Like, I could see some guys who are like, I would want to do it, but I'm kind of nervous about like now I gotta like take control and I don't want to look weird or like I can't get it up in front of two girls. Oh god.

SPEAKER_05 59:35

I could see like guys being nervous about it, but every guy would easily figure this out. We'll just clip this and then just post it and see how many men say they want three something and how many say they don't.

SPEAKER_00 59:45

No, listen, I'm on your side if we're if we're clipping it. Like I think I think more people than I think no, if we're clipping it, like you're correct, but um I think you were saying your boyfriend doesn't want it.

SPEAKER_05 59:56

I don't know He says he doesn't want it.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

We've never actually like You've never had that conversation. We're very satisfied. We're together.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:04

Nothing to do with anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

Really?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:06

What satisfaction has to do with anything? Would you eat the same food and say that you're satisfied? And then if they

Dating Apps, Signals, And Serendipity

SPEAKER_05 1:00:12

brought you a four Michel Michelin star uh Whoa, you can't you can't invite another girl that's better than you, first of all.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:25

Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Hello, you need to flip that around real fast. Uh-oh. She's maybe the side. She's the side, she's the fries on the side. Let's exactly know that's magic. Like, let's try. And also, like, you have to show up respectfully in a three. Like, that would have to be a conversation. There's a lot of conversations. Like, if there are. You know, when even when I was on Hinge before I met my boyfriend, like, I'd see couples swipe up. Hey, looking for a third. Hey, keep looking. Like, that's not like what and then I have to like sister wives it, like, no. Have you seen those shows? Like, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

I don't know what you're referring to, but get into that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:58

It's that. Invite one of them on your show. That that'll that'll be just like just no. No, it's more harm than it's worth, and I'm not interested.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:08

But what is the harm exactly?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

It's like what it's it's good until it isn't. Like, I feel like there's always a problem there. Like, have you ever heard of a couple that like, well, I don't want to blanket statement that because you're gonna you're gonna give me an example. But I feel like is there like I can't think of I can think of more negative like examples. Just like couples having three sums and that just like leading to more issues, with such as what? Like jealousy, yeah, jealousy would be one because you have to be really sure showing up to a loud and proud, and then like to me that's weird. That because then if you're too much with your partner, like then why'd you invite them? I don't know. I think there's too much gray, like I think it's too gray. It's just getting weird, and like, what are we doing? And then like, bye, good night. Like, I don't I don't know. I'm I'm not anti, like do your thing, but it's not for me.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:01

I'm just w yeah, I'm just wondering that you're not into it because you're worried that your relationship would fall apart, or you're not into it because you're not attracted to women.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

I'm not into it because I'm not thinking about it. To give you nothing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

Like I'm just not it's I'm not interested in it. Like, yeah. To literally give you nothing. But I like I just I honestly haven't like thought about it. I mean Yeah, no. It literally seems like more trouble than it's worth. Like, I don't think I would be like I don't know. Like I'm thinking myself in that situation, and like I don't I don't it wouldn't it wouldn't like benefit me to see my significant other with somebody else. Like that wouldn't like get me going.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:52

Got it. Okay. Quite the opposite. So that that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

Not even in a jealousy way, just in a like, hey, that should be me way, like literally.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:58

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you never answered the question with regards to how would you check your partner's phone.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

Oh, uh well, depends. I mean, you gotta take advantage of the situation. I mean, I'm pro I'm pro-take advantage of the situation. Like, so yeah, you could put that into context with everything I just prefaced, but um actually don't do that, but I literally don't. I don't know what I'm saying. Um, like I literally wouldn't, like, I don't

Age Gaps, Maturity, And Power

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

I don't like to invade people's space, honestly. But like if there's if obviously it would be like every girl I know it's like at night or something when they're sleeping.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:36

Got it, got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

But like honestly, like I don't even not find out the past, like what am I when what where do I go? Like, literally, that stresses me out more than it would to just like it would always come out. I'm really pro like it always comes out, and I think that you always also find out when you need to find out. So, not that I'm like waiting on that, but like I don't I don't feel the need to ever check somebody's phone. I mean, my and the the ex that we're talking about, the one that like hooked up with all of my friends.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:00

Um The Cheetahholic.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

Of course, yes, good name. He, the last time like everything happened, the first girl he ever hooked up with, I was still friends with her actually, kind of friends is a strong word. She told me she needed to talk to me. We hang out, and she says, Hey, I have this friend from another school. And you know, apparently they were at this football game, right? This is so high school, and she was showing her friends something, swiped one too many times, and it was your boyfriend's nudes. And she's like, I don't know what to do with this, I just wanted to tell you. I said, Okay, I dropped her off. I drove straight to his house, like, no emotion, just drove straight to his house, and I was like, Did you do this? You know, and it's just like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, uh-uh, uh, uh, uh, like, hello, did you do this? Yes or no? And it was just very like, no, I would never do that or you're like, I get the screenshots, he's sitting next to me. I'm like, get the fuck out of my car. Like, get the fuck out of my car. I'm backing out, he's like halfway out of my car, right? Like, I don't even recognize that version of myself, and that's when I really like realized that that's what I would never speak to him again because, like, when you start losing yourself, like, what do you even have? Like, I gave that relationship so much of me that I like it was just toxic. It was bad. But, anyways, he flips around his phone before I get the screenshots and the proof, and he flips around his like best friends list on Snapchat, whatever. That was like the worst, that was the most low vibrating sentence I could have just said right there, right? Like, who the fuck cares? And it was all women I didn't recognize. And I was like, get the fuck out of my car, right? And looking back, some of my friends would be like, girl, you should have gone through as well. Like, you could have avoided this. I'm like, no, like I found out when I needed to, and like I don't I just like am so I have so much like trust in the universe, and I have so much trust in like the divine timing of everything that I don't feel like me intervening would do me any good. I think I found out when I needed to, and I think that he would have found other ways, even if I did go through his phone. I think men, I think not sorry, not just men, but I think people who Are constantly unsatisfied. And he was one of those men. Like he was just very lustful. He very much just like would would never be satisfied. Um he would would always find a way. And whether I was on his back about it or not, I don't think it would have made a difference in the grand scheme of things. But I do know that I should have, we should have had more conversations about boundaries and things like that, probably. Um but I don't think I would go through someone's phone. But if I did at night, of course. So I'd have the time and you know the space.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:35

Um does does a body count matter in a relationship?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

If it matters to you, does it matter to you? To me, no. I think what happened before me, not that that doesn't matter, but you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:52

So if your boyfriend has slept at like 22 years old with like a thousand women.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:56

A thousand a thousand is impressive. But um, I'm not even mad, I'm just impressed. No, literally, like, who are they? But um I don't I don't know. That's a good question. I think it's again, like, kind of not low vibrational, but I think there's so many more important things that I would ask a man before what's your body count.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:15

Such as what?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:16

Oh my god, just like first of all, just body language and the way somebody looks at you when you're conversating with them, the way that they're able to, you know, reciprocate, reciprocate questions and you know, have interest in you and talk about their hobbies and their other relationships, and just the way that they're able to present their sense of self to you is so important. It's very clear on a like literally a first date. And then just obviously like being respectful, being a gentleman, showing

Career Mindset: Action Over Permission

SPEAKER_00 1:07:44

up properly. Um, those are almost things that you don't even need to ask, you can just see. But I would much rather ask, like, you know, what they think the pitfalls of their previous relationships were, or you know, what their intentions were in certain situations if I found out it was negative. But I think body count, like, is not a good, like, I don't know. I don't think it affects me if if I'm being really honest.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:13

Yeah, as long as you don't really mind it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

Like, I mean, if it's a thousand, like maybe, maybe that's not the type of person I want to be with, just because that would be representative of a lifestyle that's like insane. But if they've moved away from that and that's in the past, like and I watch these dating shows too, and I'll see like I'll see a thousand, and I'm just like, oh, like it kind of changes the way I view that person, like subconsciously, but if I were to be with that person, I guess maybe, but I've never been in that situation, thankfully.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:40

So well, only three people, one sexoholic, yeah, and we were all like underrated like this was all like pre-18. So um, what's a perfect first date?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:52

Good question. Um, it depends. I mean, some people like to be surprised, some people like want to know exactly what's happening and want that person to like make a reservation and all the things. Um, I will say, me and my my boyfriend had such a great first date. He just like he asked me my favorite type of food, and then he just like you know, made the plans from there, picked me up, um, brought me flowers, met my parents before I even met him, which was crazy. Like walk downstairs, he's like key keying with my dad. I'm like, oh hi, like, hi everybody. Um, so I think just like showing intention and being thoughtful in the ways that that person like in a way that you know that that person will like receive it best. Like if they make it clear they really wanted a first date to go like something, I think that that's shows that you are listening and that you care if you like try to match that, if you will. But I would say just like I like a dinner first date. Like I want to be taken out, I want to be picked up. Um, but other than that, I think what actually happens on that first date's more important.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:55

So you you would prefer a dinner first date.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:00

I think that sets this like, for example, like I have like I don't know, I'll have people in my life where they'll try to go like more casual so that they don't like whatever waste money or waste time, they'll do like a boba date or a coffee date.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:13

But I hate coffee date.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

See, like I just think that's like setting them. How you show up is like what kind of your intention is. Like, I feel like if you show up like a friendly coffee date, like that sets the tone differently than like a romantic dinner. I mean, that's the way I feel. But I think it depends. Some people just like they've done the dating thing for so long that they're just like, let me feel your vibe and feel your energy over coffee versus like investing a whole evening.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:38

Right. Um you you and your boyfriend have been together for a year, you said? Yeah. Okay. And so you were 20 years old on Hinge.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:48

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:49

And I hate that sentence. I hate it. I hate. Anyways, keep going.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:53

I mean, it's just it's it's it's kind of it's fascinating to me that there are people your age on dating apps as opposed to just like going outside and like meet people. Which you're saying that you when you met your boyfriend, he was going to the or is he going to the same school as you?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:13

Yeah. I graduated early, so he's still in college. Um, he's studying abroad for a semester.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:18

Sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:20

Um, you're right. Like, we're so young. Like, maybe like because when you think about it, I guess like a dating app should be for like, you know, maybe further down along the line, like less time to be like outside, right? I know before I could even like hit the town. But I think it was more just like honestly, I didn't have like much intention going into it. I thought like I did I was not like on the dating apps, like I would check it maybe once a month and like you know, whatever. I also think a lot of the times people are just on dating apps for like the validation of it all and like the the quick hit of like people loving your ass, like I don't know. But it was more to just like show up and just like have a have a presence, I guess.

Internships, Initiative, And Outworking Average

SPEAKER_00 1:12:00

But again, I wasn't even really looking. I think before I opened the app to see that my current boyfriend like matched me or whatever. I hadn't been on the the app for at least like a month. Like, I don't know. I wasn't like actively like on hinge. I went on one hinge date before what made you respond to him? Well, first of all, he sent me a rose, which like if you know this is a stupid conversation, but if you know anything about hinge, you like get one rose a month or something, so he just like it showed more interest. And just like the banter, he swiped up on something with like something witty. I responded with something like funny back, and then we immediately took it off the app and kept the conversation going. I think momentum after you start talking in terms of like making a plan is really important, right? Um, we made plans for that weekend. The very next day we ran into each other physically in the halls, which was crazy. We were like wearing the same perfume. Um it's like it's a unisex, it's it's the golf liffler by Ty the Creator. It's like a unisex cologne perfume, I don't know. Um so it felt aligned. Um, but I think just like something fun, witty, matching your energy, and then like something very like making plans, like let's get it off the internet here. Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:11

Yeah. I mean, those are good advice. I think I think a lot of people struggle with um dating apps to begin with. I mean, dating in general, but also dating apps and how to get a response and even what to say. Yeah. Right. So, but that rose, are you saying that like you do you get roses like that from other people often? Or I mean, did you? Um I'm assuming you're not on there anymore.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:34

No, of course not. Um, I mean, even just after the first conversation, I think we both deleted it without even telling the other person. I think there's like a level of of knowing um with a good conversation. But like yes and no, I can't really remember. Um it also, I'm pretty sure Hinge, like it depends on how many people you like, how many likes you get. I don't really know. But to me, it was never that validating. If anything, I was like, oh my god, like this is just exhausting.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:07

Um, what's the oldest you would date?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

Good question. A lot of my like people I know are like, well, first of all, I'm older than my boyfriend, literally by like 28 seconds, but I still am like weird about it. I feel like a cougar because I'm like, you know, working and he's like in college, but honestly, not more than like I'm 21, not more than 25.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:28

So four years.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:29

Like, yeah. I just feel like we'd be in such different stages of our lives that I wouldn't be able to like You said you have friends that are dating a lot more. No, but I have friends that would.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:41

And I don't know. I think there again, there's more important things. Like if I met someone that was 26, I wouldn't be like, well, back it up, like miss the mark, buddy. Like it it wouldn't be like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:50

But I What if you met somebody who was 30?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:53

No. That's not that that's not I said that that that was like the craziest thing that could happen. There's crazier, but I can't see how we would be compatible, quite frankly. I'm just in like such a 21 is such a specific, like pivotal time in your life, I think. And I like I'm just on a on a track and I can't see I don't know. I just feel like 30 is a whole different ballpark. If if it happened, I wouldn't be anti, but like thinking now I can't see it happening. No.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:26

Got it, got it. Um for with those friends of yours that you you're suggesting that they would date older.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:34

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:35

What do you think makes them what's what's different about them than you?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

Good question. I think sometimes a lot of a lot of the time we correlate age with maturity, right? So I think there's a level of like, they're a provider, they're older than me, this like you know, security. I just don't view it like that. Um I think maturity kind of comes with experience and you know, experience more than age, I would say. So I think it's just that like wanting to be provided for and taken care of properly.

Leaders Who Ask Better Questions

SPEAKER_00 1:16:08

Um I think that's it.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:12

Which you're saying you don't value or you do value?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:14

I value those things. I just don't think they necessarily come with age. If anything, I think a 30 year 30-year-old looking to date someone significantly younger than them, like that's to me is more telling of him and more of I won't say red flag because it literally depends on the person, but like, you know, maybe he just wants to like I don't know, not like feel like the man, but like maybe and like I I just I'm uncomfortable with like uh you know, not like being provided for, like I can, you know, we have a very good give and take in in my relationship, but like I would never be with someone just because they like provide for me and want to feel like they provide for me, and maybe that's like I don't know. I think people consciously date older because they think that brings experience, security, and maturity. And I just don't think age necessarily brings that.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

And if anything, I think that it can bring just like a disconnect of like where we are in our lives. I wouldn't want someone to, you know, stoop down to like relate to where I am, nor do I want them like you know, nursing me through my life because they know more or they have that experience.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:28

Not because I'm ignorant to their you know advice, but but wouldn't you say that at least I feel like that you come off a lot more mature than your age, right? I don't think you seem like a 21-year-old. Like I've I've met 21-year-olds, thank you. And you don't seem like one, right? If I were to like ballpark your maturity age, I'd probably say like you're probably like 27, 28. Um, which in this particular situation I'm assuming that your boyfriend is probably compatible with you because otherwise then you wouldn't be together for a year.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:04

Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:05

So then his maturity is probably around the same as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:09

But then I'm I'm I'm also I mean, presumably you know girls around the same age as you who you have nothing in common with because they just act like a child.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:21

Yeah, that is true. That is true. And I'd avoid, I'm again, really big on like your environment should promote where you want to be, right? So like if I'm really like and I'll sit it out. Like I'll sit, I'll sit them out. But again, I also appreciate like, for example, like my boyfriend, he's very much in college, right? And like I'll get invited to these kind of like house parties or fry, you know, like these kind of parties. I'm not above that. I love that. Like there's times where like I can be in those environments, and it's very healing because I actually feel like a lot of the time I like skipped out on some of that because I was very like needing to heal. Um but my boyfriend and I are very, very different. He I feel like I'm mature because I've because of learned experiences and just the ways I've like invested in myself. Whereas I feel like he's mature because he's just fearless and he's just not he doesn't need to overexplain himself. He does he knows how he shows up. He has a really strong sense of self, and that's the way that he's confident and mature, and so I look up to him in that way, and I feel like you know, he maybe sees me as more mature because of the ways that I'll I'll sit in a room with CEOs and I'll raise my hand, right? Like I

Playfulness At Work And Being Memorable

SPEAKER_00 1:19:36

have something to say and it's powerful. And I think that leveraging that and understanding that was really important in my professional career, and it still is. And I think that like I deserve a seat at the table because of the ways that I show up every day and the ways that I add value. And that's something that's really important. I'm actually going back and I'm getting, you know, off track, but I'm going back to my school to sit on a panel and speak in front of this marketing club that I used to be a part of. And I'm really excited. I feel like I have something to say, and I feel like I'll really resonate with this crowd because college is scary. Coming out of college is very scary, right? You don't know how you show up. And I think there's a lot of fear mongering. Like I had a professor one day, he's like, raise your hand if you're scared to find a job. I'm like, all right, asshole, like pack it up. Like, unless you're gonna hire us, like, what are you doing? Right. And he was like, it was a power play with him, but there's a lot of fear mongering. But and this is actually something from I think Zach maybe said it in his TED talk, but there's not a lack of resources, and we have to get out of that mindset. There's a lack of action. And I really truly feel like just starting set me, you know, 10 steps ahead because I just thought, you know, why wait until my junior year to find an internship? Like, why not now? I don't want to work as a server my whole life. I don't want to do this anymore. Why not just start now? Like, what's the harm in applying? Right. And I think that ready isn't a feeling, it's really an action. And I really like try to practice that. Like I really try to show up to things. Like, even this today, like, what's the harm? Why not show up? Why not put myself out there? Like, just by starting and just by challenging yourself to say yes, like you're gonna be light years ahead just because you never know what one experience could lead to. Like, right? Like, I got this current job because I emailed the CEO and I said I want to work for you, right? Like, what can you do that other people aren't doing? Like a lot of the times it's just asking for what you want. And I think figuring that out is where a lot of people get lost, right? Like you're asked to pick a major when you're what, 18, 17? You don't even know your right and left hand. Like you, like you're still jerking off and fucking like drinking, like you don't know what you're doing, right? And then you're asked to like make really impactful big decisions. So I think that like it starts there. Like, what are you even looking for? And figuring that out can be as simple as like, you know, writing down your pillars. What do you like? What's important to you? And it can be stupid things, but finding the common denominator in that is so important. Like, you know, I'm really interested in like why people do things and like why they act the way they act, why they make the decisions that they do. Okay, consumer behavior. Okay, I take a market research class, right? That market research class connects me with a professor who's amazing and helps me with my, you know, my ability to speak in social settings. That keeps moving and moving and moving until you know I figure out that like marketing is where I want to be, right? So it's like, how can you foster where you're at and your experiences now, even if you don't think they're that meaningful? How can you make them meaningful? And how can you continue to learn from other situations in your life and make them apply to your current ones and across, across, you know, like and that's something that I always challenge myself to do is like, how can I learn from my personal life and apply that in my career, right? Like how businesses ebb and flow is very similar to how humans do. So like trying to learn from all aspects of my life, I also feel like has helped me um continue to move upwards and grow. Obviously, growing isn't linear, but um I feel like I learn a lot from business and I also apply a lot of what I've learned from life into business.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:10

Um I think too, a lot of it is it's like in school, we're taught this thing where it's like, here are the steps. You do you study this, you study this, here's the test. If you don't know the answer, you ask the teacher, and the teacher always knows the answer. So you just like get it from the teacher. Whereas like your path was like, hey, nobody told me, hey, it's time to look for internships. This is part of your curriculum. You're just like, I'm gonna look for internships. And it was the same way I went to music school.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:37

And at the end of music school, you had to get internship. Now, it was like a small town where we went to college, and there was this place called Hide Music that just sold like trombones to like middle school. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:48

Big stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:49

Yeah, but since it was like the easy internship, because like they just they had like a deal with the school, you could just kind of sign up and just like you just walk around the store and like fucking fix shit, and like nothing would really happen.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:01

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:01

But then everybody who took that internship is now like not doing music, and everybody like me and my buddy were like, fuck that shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:08

And you noticed that?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:09

Yeah, we noticed it from like the couple classes above. So we like drove to Nashville and started just like knocking on doors and like, hey, like, we're graduating next semester, we're looking for an internship, and like everybody was like super cool about it. Yeah, and I didn't realize why until afterward when I got my first marketing job and I did digital marketing, we'd run ads for companies and stuff. And a year after working there, they gave me like an intern, and I was pumped because I was like, Oh, sweet, I can give all my like busy work to this guy, I don't have to do the you know, like the annoying stuff. And every single intern was just so like lazy and like wouldn't check their work and like all these things, and that's when I realized, like, oh, the bar isn't even that high. Like, all you have to do is like try, yeah, like make yourself out there, yeah, and like be like responsible and like a basic, you know, work even a little bit harder than the normal person. You can go like that. So surprising.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:03

Yeah, and I've had coffee chats with um because the CEO of the company I work for, he came and like spoke at our school, and you know, he's amazing. He was 18 years old out of college with you know, a million-dollar company, multi-million dollar company, like out of his college dorm room. He's just like one of those people that was made to do it and made to be good at it. Um, and he's the type of person type of person to be like, why not me? My first day of my internship, obviously I'm like shaking like a flea. I'm so nervous. And the first thing he asks me, and something I've noticed about all good leaders, is they ask more questions than anyone in the room. Like every time I'm in a room with a CEO or somebody of importance, you know, I'll say, like, I loved your panel up there, I thought you were amazing, and they'll say, What do you like about it? You know, they always want to hear from you. And that is so powerful to make other people feel like powerful, to make other people feel like what they say is important. And it also, you know, it breeds an environment of like new ideas, right? Like these CEOs, they know, you know, 10 times more than me, and they're acting like I'm the smartest person in the room. And like you said, Zach, like all that sets you apart from like, you know, not your necessarily your competitors, but like everybody else is like trying, asking for what you want, showing up correctly. And I also think, and this is something that's like not talked about, but um, I think that there's sorry, I hear that too. Um I think that there's a level of um if you can make people curious about themselves, if you can ask questions that make people know themselves better, I think that's like what makes a good relationship. I feel like something I did every day of my internship was have a lunch question. Also, consistency is important because you know, they saw my face, they heard my voice, like it was something that they were all excited for. And it would be like, I think the first question I ever asked was, if you were a type of chip, what chip would you be? Not your favorite chip, like not which chip you would grab first, like what type of chip you would be, right? Because if Zach, if you tell me you'd be, you know, a plain tortilla chip, that tells me something about you and how you perceive yourself. But if you tell me you're a cool inch Dorito, like that's completely different. And like that kind of like random, like, you know, funny question at lunch is literally why I think I got a you know, a job there post-grad, because I made myself an asset, and I made myself rememberable, and I made people know themselves better because of the questions I was asking. And it's still to this day, I think I think you know, Thursday's lunch question was what type of cheese you would be. Like it doesn't even have to be something of importance. I think the more random and the more weird the better. Um because if if you can help somebody get to know themselves better, like it's it's just the best conversations. Like I I urge you to ask that. And not only ask that, ask that of you, ask that to your partners. Like, what what type of, you know, cuisine would you be if you were cuisine? Like something, the more random, the better. I think it's just so fun. And I really think it helped me. Like, I'm not gonna sit there and talk about, you know, digital marketing with the CEO of the company. Like, that's not gonna necessarily get me anywhere right now. But inviting him to be playful and leveraging my youth might, and it it's some somewhere where I can add value. So I think that that was another thing is I always stayed very nimble and very like up to date on things, and I'm almost the most playful version of myself at work. Again, I'm professional, but I'm I'm

Gratitude And Closing

SPEAKER_00 1:28:38

still not trying to fit into a corporate box because that's not where I'll win.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:44

That makes sense. Yeah, thank you so much for being so all open and honest. Yeah, you did great, you did amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:50

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:51

And wish you nothing but the best.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:54

Back at you.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:55

Seems like you will uh you will do great.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:57

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:58

In this day and age.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:59

Appreciate you both. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:01

Thanks for watching. We'll see you later.