Choosing Love Over Potential In The Age Of Infinite Options Ft. Payton - Ep.179

Special thanks to Payton for being a part of this episode of Unattainable Podcast Show 

We dig into why dating apps reward avoidant patterns, how to balance attraction with values, and why “love is a choice” beats the soulmate myth. Peyton shares a seven-month almost-relationship, a five-girlfriend reveal, and the simple rules that keep trust intact.

• online dating norms in Southern California and app fatigue
• attraction as entry, values and consistency as filters
• avoidant attachment cycles and how to exit them
• the five-girlfriend reveal and verifying red flags
• rejecting soulmates, choosing growth and acceptance
• age gaps, maturity, and avoiding “potential” traps
• first-date formats and managing risk and vibes
• height preferences, double standards, and non-negotiables
• boundaries on cheating, phones, and privacy
• shifting from app churn to intentional screening

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Transcript

Meet Peyton: Apps, Aquarius, And LA Dating

SPEAKER_01 0:00

My name is Peyton Rennie. What I do is I'm entering into real estate right now and Star Stein is an Aquaria. Online dating is very prominent. So many of the people we swipe left on on dating apps, we would have totally entertained if we met them in person. Men who are uncomfortable with vulnerability, communication, you know, they they like to keep people at arm's length. Like they usually just people that want situationships. Initial attraction absolutely matters. Like you must be attracted to your partner, but that's not all of it. If you want something sustainable, you kind of have to see through that game of, you know, it goes back to the vanity. When you're choosing a partner, you have to accept them as they are, or else that becomes an unstable relationship. I don't believe in soulmates. There are millions of fish in the sea, but maybe there's nobody for me. He definitely treated her the worst. I don't know if I have a perfect date. I think like default first date is usually like coffee. If you invest in something, like you might get a little emotionally invested. And I think if you know the date doesn't work out and they spent X amount of money, there might be expectations for a second one, and I think it would be pretty disappointing. You could cheat emotionally and you can cheat physically.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

So if a guy is five, five.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

And uh today we got a special guest for you guys on the show. This is Peyton. Peyton, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience, your name, what you do, and your star sign.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Okay, name. My name is Peyton Rennie. Um, what I do is I'm entering into real estate right now, and Star Sign is an Aquarius.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

Aquarius.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Aquarius.

SPEAKER_05 1:54

You know all about Aquarius, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Must know more than I do.

SPEAKER_05 1:57

You guys are very fun, but uh a little bit dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Dangerous in a way. Well, because I'm intrigued with uh just like bad for my mental health.

SPEAKER_05 2:07

Okay. Okay, so this is all basically toxic people into our phone and just keep doing it.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Well, here I am.

SPEAKER_05 2:15

All right, cool. So, first question um dating in Southern California, you're not from LA, but you're from the area-ish. Yes. Um, what has your experience been like? People have said it's the hardest place in the world to date. There's sociopaths, there's narcissists, there's fake people, there's celebrities. What's your experience been like so

The App Problem: Swipes, Filters, And Avoidance

SPEAKER_05 2:35

far?

SPEAKER_01 2:35

It's been it's been a roller coaster. I'm not gonna lie. I think online dating is very prominent, and I think that a lot of people gravitate towards, you know, dating apps as their main source of meeting people, which I think is part of the problem. Um, I think on dating apps we're met with an array of personalities, and more often than not, they are the more toxic of the of the people out there.

SPEAKER_05 3:05

Uh, I agree. And I okay, what what dating apps were you using?

SPEAKER_01 3:09

I was on hinge. I felt like Tinder was more hookup oriented. Hinge is in the middle, it seemed.

SPEAKER_05 3:15

It's the same pool of losers on both that's what I think. All the dudes who download Tinder are like, wait, girls think hinge is a classy one. Let me get on hinge too. You gotta get on like Christian Mingle Match.com. That's where the good guys are.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

I was actually I was recommended a couple weeks ago because I I've been off the apps for a while. Okay. Um, I was recommended, it's called Jew Date. I'm not Jewish, but on the app, I'm Jewish.

SPEAKER_05 3:42

Find a rich guy, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

I did not find anybody, didn't find anybody, did not find anybody. It was like left, left, left, left.

SPEAKER_05 3:49

Crazy, crazy, crazy. All right. So what was yeah, what was your experience on Hinge like?

SPEAKER_01 3:54

It was certainly eventful. Um there were not as many catfishes as I expected. Um, I met a lot of wonderful people. A lot of them I just was not romantically compatible with, but I definitely made a lot of friends through the app.

SPEAKER_05 4:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

But it it's kind of a game because you know, you run into a lot of people who have an avoidant attachment style, and those are often the ones who entertain something in the beginning, and then they just hop back in that dating pool for the instant gratification of like swipe, match, perfect, you know, validated.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

Do you think it's that they have an avoidant attachment style or do you think they're just dudes who are trying to get laid more? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 4:45

I think those can go hand in hand. I think people, it it's certainly not right to say that they are all they all have an avoidant attachment style. You know, I think emotional unavailability though does go hand in hand with having an avoidant attachment style or a more avoidant attachment style. Um, but I totally think it's possible that a lot of them are just looking for something casual and they are just maybe wanting to get laid.

SPEAKER_05 5:12

Here's my opinion on the apps. I think the issue isn't that there's not good guys on the apps, it's the guys who know how to get attention on the apps, whether they're know how to take good pictures or they know how to message right, they know all this stuff. Those are the guys that you like because they know how to do all this stuff, but that's also the guys that every other girl likes because they know how to do this stuff, which means they have tons of girls hitting them up, and then the guy you swipe left on are like, oh, he's boring in messages. Uh-huh. That was the good guy, but you passed up on him because he's boring.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

What's funny, and I'm sure you've heard this before, but it's the fact that so many of the people we swipe left on on dating apps, we would have totally entertained if we met them in person.

SPEAKER_05 5:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

You know, and we weren't judging them just based off of a couple of photos that they'd taken.

SPEAKER_05 6:03

Like if you met him in the wild.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:05

If you met him in the wild, you'd be like, okay, it's all right.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Like, yeah, you don't see like 5'10, you know, like from here. Like, this is my age, this is what I look like.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

Like blah blah blah.

Attraction Vs Personality: What Really Lasts

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah, and he's he's compassionate and he's confident, and you know, that's what you see. You see past like, you know, the vanity.

SPEAKER_05 6:24

So then would you say because okay, if you meet guys on the the apps, you met up with them because you thought they were attractive, otherwise you wouldn't have struggled.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

100%.

SPEAKER_05 6:35

But then it sounds like you you're saying you're not you're friend zoning a lot of these guys. So is it safe to say you're more attracted to personality than looks?

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Absolutely. I mean, I think initial attraction absolutely matters. Like you must be attracted to your partner, but that's not all of it. You know, you could be the most attractive guy in the world and have the worst personality, and because of that, you know, maybe we're not compatible.

SPEAKER_05 7:04

And what was it about these guys' personalities that made you friend zone them?

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Um sometimes demeanors, sometimes, you know, their ability to be personal, it could be competence, um hobbies might not necessarily align, values, I think was probably the biggest one, just underlying values that didn't align with each other. And then I I think I've definitely been deterred from emotionally unavailable men.

SPEAKER_05 7:36

Interesting. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 7:38

Um what do you mean by uh emotionally unavailable men?

SPEAKER_01 7:43

I just mean uh men who are uncomfortable with vulnerability communication, you know, they they like to keep people at arm's length. Like they usually just people that want situationships.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

How old did you say you were?

SPEAKER_01 7:58

I'm 20.

SPEAKER_04 7:59

You're 20. Okay. Um how many relationships have you had?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Relationships, probably one that I kind of classify as a relationship. We met on Hinge, um gorgeous man. Tall, muscular, foreign. Um we ended up being together for about seven months, but it was when was this? This was maybe like a year and a half ago, two years ago.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

Okay, so you were 18.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah, it was 18. I think he was like 23.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

Okay, so you dated from 18 to 19, ish.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Ish, yeah. Um, but it was good, you know, it started out great. He was very attentive, um seemed comfortable with communication, and then as time went on, the consistent consistency started to slip, and you know, I would communicate needs, I would be met with, I hear you, I see you, I appreciate you, you know, feeling comfortable telling me this. I want to do better because I know that that must not feel good, and then like four days later it would be back to the same thing. And I think it's funny because you know, the stability of your home base, I think, has a very strong connection with security and competence and what you're willing to accept from people. And I noticed that as my home base started to stabilize, I had less of a tolerance for that.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

What what do you mean? Like less of a tolerance for destabilization.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

I so me and my my roommate, her name's Peyton as well. So two peas in the pod.

SPEAKER_05 9:47

Um Have you ever seen New Girl? Yes. You remind me of New Girl.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Really? Two peas in a pod. Two peas in a pod. Um we moved in together and it was wonderful, and it's been wonderful. And I think that just like having that independence and the safety of like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited to come home, and I know it's gonna be so fun and so good. I think that had a lot to do with my decision to end that situationship.

SPEAKER_04 10:15

Interesting. Um, your birthday's coming up. It is. Yeah, do you have a lot of friends?

The Seven-Month Almost: Boundaries And Patterns

SPEAKER_01 10:20

I have a decent amount of friends.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

Okay. Do you do you feel like it's easy for you to make connections?

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Romantic or friendship?

SPEAKER_04 10:29

Just in general.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

I would say yes.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Okay. So, what's the need for you to go on dating apps in order to meet guys?

SPEAKER_01 10:38

I think it's more so a resource. Because I find, you know, it's funny because I will go out and a lot of the time it's like if I if I put in the effort, like I'll I'll connect with somebody in the wild, you know, as you said. But on the flip side, I do I mean, I can't lie, the instant gratification on dating apps is wonderful. You know, you just swipe, swipe, match. Oh my gosh, perfect. Like it was that easy. I just had to sit down and spend five minutes on my phone, and now we have a date next week. You know, like it's a very fun way to make plans quickly, but I think so, like that being said, it's a great tool, I think, and resource for dating, but I don't like it as you know, the only tool and resource for dating and meeting people.

SPEAKER_04 11:30

It's interesting because what you said uh about the gratification aspect of it only applies to women. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

How so?

SPEAKER_04 11:39

Well, because you guys are the one that are getting chased versus you chasing right. Like I with the exception of Bumble, where you have to do the first approach. Right. All the other apps are the opposite, which means that they have to swipe on you, and majority of the time men are more inclined to swipe on more women versus women swiping more on men.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

Because you get to be more picky because you know that you are in this particular situation deprived. Uh-huh. Right. And so also when you do get the match, you're waiting for the other person to ask you on a date versus you setting up the date. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

It does make sense. I do think it can go both ways though. Um like I don't know, on hinge, I I have heard that bumble is like the woman has to make the first move and reach out.

SPEAKER_05 12:30

Yeah, but it's kind of bullshit because like every girl just does like the wave emoji and then it's gotta think of the creative, cool, funny thing to say anyway. So it's kind of like it's like the same thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

On hinge, it is definitely more of an even playing field. Like anybody can reach out first so long as you both swipe on each other.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Right, but how often do you okay? How many swipes? I I don't I don't really know how hinge works, so explain to me. How does uh how many swipes do you get?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

As many as you want.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

Okay. Is it the same thing for men? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

You think so?

SPEAKER_05 13:08

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can do them. I haven't done them in forever. I think you can do unlimited though. Maybe the update you gotta like pay or something to do more.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

But yeah, I mean, I just I I know for a fact that when men are swiping, right? There is this thing that somebody was telling me they were like, I'm just swiping on every single person. They had like the membership, like they had like paid for the highest membership they had, and he was just like swiping on every single girl. And he was like, I'm just gonna wait until this is like who swipes back and then set up the date. So I think I think it's just I think women tend to be a lot more pickier on dating apps than men are, right? Yeah, like you I think I think if a guy is swiping, they're mostly looking at your pictures

Soulmates, Abundance Mindset, And Settling

SPEAKER_04 13:55

and okay, is she good looking? Is she crazy or not? Right. That's like that that's like the only criteria. You could everyone's and I'm generally, you know, um I'm speaking generally, obviously. There they're guys that are probably nitpicking and going through, oh, like does she have a job, does she have this, and then you know, and those guys are separate in a separate group and and much smaller group, but majority of men, you know, they don't have a ton of criteria. Whereas like as a woman, you're not just looking at how they look, right? You're looking at their height, you're looking at their job, you're looking at you know all the other things that that might be compatible or not, and then deciding whether or not this person, you know, qualifies. Right. So in that sense, I do think it's it's more difficult for men. But mm, what would you say is the common denominator between the people that you've swiped on and went on dates with just in general with all of them? Yeah, is there something or or do do you find that it's just all different types of people?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I would say all different types of people. Yeah. I I haven't noticed any like very distinct similarities or differences between all of them. It's more just, you know, meeting a stranger.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Okay, so you don't particularly have a specific criteria of a type of person you're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Was that your question? My type?

SPEAKER_04 15:20

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

I would say, I mean, the people I've gone out with I find generally attractive. Um and usually I do try read text for a little bit before I go out with them just to see if, okay, one, can they communicate? You know, do they have basic communication skills? Can they keep a conversation going? Um, is there banter? You know, do we have anything in common? Like, is there a reason for us to go hang out? Will there be substance behind us going out on a date?

SPEAKER_04 15:53

What usually so so that usually is what convinces you? Yeah. If somebody's capable of keeping a good conversation going.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

I would say so.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

What's the craziest experience you've had as far as hinge dates are concerned? Or any any online updates?

SPEAKER_01 16:11

There was this one man that I was going out with over the summer. He was a little bit older, um, but I was intrigued. It was, you know, we had good conversation, whatnot. We hung out, it went well. Um, we were seeing each other for like maybe a month and a half, and we saw each other really frequently. It was like three times a week at least. Um, he always seemed available. And then towards the end, I I checked my Instagram DM requests for some reason, and there was this random spam account that was like, hey, I know you've been going out with we'll call him Ned, Ned, um, at, and then said his address. Um, I just wanted to let you know he's going out with like five other girls, all young. Um, one of them he had been seeing for like two years, another one he'd been going out with for like six months, met the family, they had plans to move in together. So he was just like play in the field.

SPEAKER_05 17:15

Play in the field. But do you know that that DM was legit?

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Yeah, she was one of the girls, but they had met their relationship, it was more casual, and I guess he talked about all of the other girls to this one, and he would like whatever girls were like sending him photos, he would show to this girl, and it was bizarre, absolutely bizarre.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

So, why is it bizarre?

SPEAKER_01 17:41

I all of it, all of it was so bizarre. I mean, to the extent of which he would play these women to go out with somebody for two years and lead them to believe that you're exclusive and that you have a future together.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

This is this is this is coming from the girl that that reached out to you.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Yeah, and we ended up connecting with all of the other girls, and we were like all on a group of FaceTime, like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Oh, so you verified it. Oh, we verified, we verified. Let me get this straight.

SPEAKER_04 18:12

So this girl, uh huh, let's call her Ashley. Ashley comes comes and DMs you and says, Hey, um, Peyton, you know, I'm so-and-so, and I'm seeing Alex. Whatever. And Alex has been with

Age Gaps, Maturity, And “Potential”

SPEAKER_04 18:30

me for two years.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

For this wasn't the girl that reached out to me.

SPEAKER_05 18:34

A different girl was the one.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

A different girl, but we ended up getting on the phone call, and she was like, I've been going out with them for two and a half.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

Okay, so one of the girls you guys got in touch with, he had been going out with for two years. Yeah. And she had thought that they were together exclusively. Yeah. Okay. Got it. And so during the time when this guy was seeing her, he started dating all these other other four girls. Right. Right. Okay. And do do every single one of these girls live in the same place?

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Um, two of them, he lives in Laguna Beach, and two of them were in Laguna Beach, which was shocking because it's a very small beach city. I was like, that's bold. One of them is in Long Beach. I was in San Clemene.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Uh-huh. Got it. So kind of like within the same sort of area.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

Um, and you live in San Clemeni. Okay, got it. And so interesting. So then, so then what what happened with the girl that he'd been seeing for two years?

SPEAKER_01 19:42

She just ghosted him.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

So they so okay, did did every single one of the girls do the same?

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, I don't think anybody confronted him. So you would have five.

SPEAKER_05 19:58

Nobody texted me back.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Well, you know, you already know he just replaced us in a second.

SPEAKER_05 20:03

Yeah, probably. Or one of the girls on the call was like, finally, I got my competition out of the way. Now it's just rich.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

He had a little bit of money. He wasn't like obnoxiously rich. He had very nice cards. Comfortable. Yeah, comfortable.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

Got it. He's good looking.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

He's good looking. How old is he? He's like 40.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Is that the oldest you've dated?

SPEAKER_01 20:30

About, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

What's the oldest you've dated?

SPEAKER_01 20:33

You're probably like 45.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

Okay. What's the oldest you would date?

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Oh, that's so hard to say. I feel like generally probably 45.

SPEAKER_04 20:43

45. Okay, so you would date somebody who's for so you're 20 years old, and you would date somebody who's 25 years older than you.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

If the connection was there.

SPEAKER_04 20:50

Got it. Why do you don't you have a problem with that?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

I I just think age has never bothered me. You know, I feel like it's more every situation's unique, and I think what matters more is how you connect as people, you know, what their personality is.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

What do you say to people who would suggest that your um frontal lobe is has not been developed yet, and you don't know what the fuck you're doing, and that 25 years age difference would be uh because the person is gonna want to manipulate you and control you.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

I'd say that certainly happens, you know, and I would obviously use my best judgment, but I think in terms of the frontal lobe developing, you know, if it develops and things changes, change, then I hop out. But you know, I am an adult and I make adult decisions and I have confidence in the decisions I make.

SPEAKER_05 21:51

It's interesting. So I used to have a company in the modeling industry.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 21:54

And we used to call something we called it hot guy phase because like the new models 1899. 20 coming into the industry would always be dating some young hot guy,

Coffee, Drinks, And First-Date Stakes

SPEAKER_05 22:05

TikTok hair, dangly earring. Like they were like clones of each other. Like it was like they all look the same. But like the most beautiful girls, and I like to use this as a barometer because the most beautiful girls are the ones who have access to anybody they want, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Right.

SPEAKER_05 22:21

They would always be dating by the time they were 21, 22, some like random looking dude, like some dude that like if he dropped off your UPS package, you'd be like, okay, cool, like thanks, you know what I mean? But they would always be extremely successful or ambitious or mature, okay, and almost always 10 to 20 years older. And it was just interesting seeing that, like, oh, so the girls who could have anybody they want, even by the time they're 21, 22, are already not going for like the you know, 21-year-old with a six-pack, they're going for some like successful guy. So it's just interesting, like seeing that play out over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yeah, it is interesting, but I think you know, if you want something sustainable, you kind of have to see through that game of you know, it goes back to the vanity. I think so many of us date for luxury, and I think I mean that there aren't really much, you know, there isn't much ground beneath that. I think you more so have to go for that connection. And you know, if you're mature, are they mature? If you value success and you value your career, are they successful? Are they ambitious? Are they determined? They're much more important things, you know, that outlive the looks of somebody. You know, because one day they're not gonna look like that anymore. But what is the foundation? You know, what what is gonna last?

SPEAKER_05 23:43

The other thing is a lot of girls will say, like, oh, I want to date somebody because like he's not successful yet, but like he's gonna be. And I'm like, I never understood. Okay, have you ever heard of this thing called Hello Fresh?

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Yes, I have.

SPEAKER_05 23:57

So they scammed me one time. I bought like the bet the biggest meal package because it's like super per meal or whatever. Uh-huh. Comes in the mail, I open up the first one, and it's not even cooked, it's just like the ingredients in there. Open up the second one, just the ingredients, right? So I call support. I'm like, hey, like you guys forgot to cook my meals. And they're like, no, that's how it works. You have to cook it yourself. I was like, so I'm paying for meal delivery. I gotta cook it, like, that doesn't make any sense. So, like, when girls are like, Oh, I dated this guy for potential or something, I'm like, there's already guys who are cooked. They're already steak mashed potatoes. You can just try it and see if you like it versus like some ingredients that like might be good, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Right.

SPEAKER_05 24:38

But like, why would you risk it on the maybe when there's like the sure thing already out there?

SPEAKER_01 24:42

I think I mean possibilities are endless, but I think you have to look past that and just kind of go like I don't know. I think the way that women approach dating is so interesting sometimes because we do opt for potential and we opt for hope and we put people on pedestals, you know, because of that. But you have to when you're choosing a partner, you have to accept them as they are, or else that becomes an unstable relationship, you know, because your future depends on whether or not they become successful. And I think that's just not the right way to approach dating.

SPEAKER_05 25:22

Yeah, I think there's a mix, but it I lean heavily toward like people aren't gonna change, they're just not like people think, oh, I'm gonna change him, he's gonna be different, he's gonna be different with me. Like, nah. Like a lot of times it's funny, girls will come in here and be like, oh yeah, like I don't like these kind of guys and these kind of guys and these kind of guys, and then we start talking to them, and like their last five exes are like exactly that. Like they're like, Oh, I don't care about like status and clout, I just care about like a connection. It's like, oh, we start talking, it's like, yeah, my last ex was like an NBA player, the other one was like this famous musician, I don't want to say his name. Like, it sounds like you like clout and status, whether you like want to admit it to yourself or not.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Right. I think it's really about you know, you go through an experience, you learn, and then you apply it and you grow

Height, “Short Kings,” And Double Standards

SPEAKER_01 26:10

in your next circumstance.

SPEAKER_05 26:12

Have you heard of three loves theory?

SPEAKER_01 26:14

No.

SPEAKER_05 26:15

So supposedly you have three big loves in your life. Okay, so the first one is like your first love, you think it's gonna last forever because you don't know what the fuck you're doing. Second big one is like the toxic one. Okay, so that's the one that like really just like breaks you and you fall in love and it it teaches you all the hard lessons. And then the third one is when you find your soulmate. But you can't find your soulmate until you go through the second one because the second one teaches you what you actually want in a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 26:44

And a lot of people think they want, oh, I want someone who's like obsessed with me.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Right.

SPEAKER_05 26:48

And then they get in a relationship with someone who's obsessed with them and they're like, ah no, this kind of sucks, actually. Like, this is kind of annoying. I actually want someone who's independent. And it takes them that that relationship so they're ready to meet their soulmate when they do meet their soulmate. Do you believe in soulmates?

SPEAKER_01 27:04

I don't believe in soulmates. Yeah, me neither. I just think like the whole idea is centered around you know, the belief that there is somebody who's uh made and is already right for you. You know, somebody made for you. You know, and I I just don't think I think love is a choice, and I think it takes two to tango, and you meet people where you are and you choose to learn and grow together, or you choose not to be together. But I think the idea of soulmates, it's just it's too easy. And I I do think it has a negative effect on the way that people date because you know, we do have this abundance mindset with online dating where it's like there are so many fish in the sea. And if you're not perfect, if you don't check a hundred percent of my boxes, I'm gonna find somebody who will. You know, and I think that goes hand in hand with the fact that so many people do believe that their soulmate is out there, you know, and one day he'll just fall in my lap. And it's interesting because I think that rolls so closely with this scarcity mindset where it's like you do explore a lot of those fish and you go out with so many people, and then it doesn't work out, and you start to believe, like, okay, there are uh millions of fish in the sea, but maybe there's nobody for me, you know, and I think that's where we see so many people settle into relationships that aren't exactly what they want and sometimes aren't the most healthy, but we start making excuses for partners, and we just stop putting in the effort to you know respect ourselves more and find something that suits us better.

SPEAKER_05 28:45

I think too, I I don't like the idea of soulmates because it makes it seem like it's like a way to skirt responsibility, right? Where it's like, oh, it's not that like I'm not good enough, I just haven't found the right person. But then I was like thinking about I'm like, how come like fat people always have fat soulmates? Like that doesn't make sense, like statistically.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Is that how it works?

SPEAKER_05 29:10

Well, it seems like okay, all the like hot successful people find their soulmate who is also hot and successful, and then like like like the fat people, like how come their soulmates are never hot and successful? You know what I mean? Like, maybe it's because there's no such thing as soulmates, and you know, the fat people are like, Well, I'm not gonna get the hot successful person, so like I guess I'm gonna like marry the fat person, you know.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

So you're suggesting that it's possible that a liquid comes out of one human and goes into another human, and then and then a new human is created

Submission, Leadership, And Relationship Roles

SPEAKER_04 29:45

inside of that human, and then that human comes out of that other human and grows to become the exact size of the human that gave birth to it, but then somehow it's impossible that soulmates exist.

SPEAKER_05 30:00

What does that what does that have to do with soulmates?

SPEAKER_04 30:03

I'm just saying the possibility of things. You believe planets move around one star at the exact same Yeah, but that's physics. I mean that's physics, but it's possibility, you know? If somebody told you this when nobody was able to prove it, would you have believed it?

SPEAKER_05 30:22

Yeah, but I have evidence to the contrary, that's what I'm saying. You now do. Hot people have a lot of soulmates, ugly people don't have any.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

That's the evidence.

SPEAKER_05 30:30

What happens is my eyeballs in reality. That's also not true.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

It depends on the perspective. Because I I think when we're talking about soulmates, it's more soul and less soul doesn't know ugly or pretty.

SPEAKER_05 30:42

But then why is it the case that the ugly people line up with each other and what are your references?

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Are we talking about like fairy tale movies?

SPEAKER_05 30:51

Like you're talking about. Look in the world, like, okay. If you had a friend, right, that was like fat and ugly, you know, if and then all of a sudden that guy and he had pimples all over and like he played video games in his mom's basement. If you like went to your like high school reunion and he was with a supermodel, would you be like, what the fuck? How the fuck did that happen? Or would you be like, oh yeah, you know, soulmates that comes in different sizes, you know, fat people can date whoever they want. Would you be like, oh, that's normal? Would you be like, how did that happen?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

I'd walk up and give him a high five, but I also think, you know, like there's a potential that that won't last, you know. I I don't think that that would mean that they were soulmates. I think it would mean that you know they had basic attraction towards each other.

SPEAKER_05 31:36

But that's my I'm saying, like, that's why I don't believe in soulmates. Because why aren't there more cases of like the fat ugly guy and then his soulmate's a supermodel? Why why is never the soulmate of a fat ugly guy a supermodel?

SPEAKER_04 31:49

Maybe because God thought that in order for soulmates to be soulmates, they have to be attracted to each other, and attraction comes from a place of being attractive. Yeah, but and so he just matched them up, just like he matched up the I don't know, whatever guys being able to put it inside a woman and then woman giving birth. Like, yeah, I don't know why it happened, it just happened.

SPEAKER_05 32:13

Yeah, but that would be contrary evidence to soulmates because it seems like oh, people like the people who are like in their league, not like oh, people like each other because the universe has decreed that you will like this person.

SPEAKER_04 32:28

There's a lot of average-looking people that are with extremely attractive people, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:33

But even then, it's usually a reason. It's like, oh, they're average looking, but they're like a billionaire, or they're average looking like that.

SPEAKER_04 32:39

But you're taking away the the part of the equation, which is they're still soulmates. But you're just finding reasons why they are. You suggest that the reason why I'm with my wife is because I'm attracted to her, and she's if she wasn't attractive, I wouldn't be with her. The reality of it is you have no proof of that.

SPEAKER_05 32:56

I have no proof, Mo. There's no shot. There's no shot. If you met her and she looked, well, I'm not gonna say her name. If she looked like a different person on her friend group that was less attractive, uh-huh, there's

Cheating Lines, Phones, And Trust

SPEAKER_05 33:10

no shot you would have dated her. Even gone on a few. You just don't. I know you better than yourself. You would there's like you wouldn't get past square one. Maybe you would have had your emotional connection would have been great. She would have been your best friend, and you guys fucking go through.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

There's a lot of, but but I would use the same argument to the fact that there are a lot of attractive people who I'm attracted to, but they they don't they're not my wife. They didn't end up becoming my wife because of the fact that they're not my soulmates.

SPEAKER_05 33:39

No, because you like their personality better. She has a better personality than the other ones.

SPEAKER_04 33:43

Or because she's my soulmate. I mean, it's just it's just true. And believe me, she didn't believe it either. When I told her that we're soulmates, she was like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You're out of your mind.

SPEAKER_05 33:54

That's because she's not delusional, gullible, and doesn't have the brain to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

But now she believes it. Now she says I was right.

SPEAKER_05 33:58

Oh well, you must have fucking manipulated her mind into it.

SPEAKER_04 34:04

Maybe because she's 20 years old and her frontal lobe is not the phone.

SPEAKER_05 34:08

Maybe, maybe. Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe that's it.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

Okay, so I'm I'm I'm kind of curious about this. Um, are you are you an only child?

SPEAKER_01 34:18

I'm not. I have two younger sisters.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

Okay. And how how how much younger are they?

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Um, one of them's about two years, the other one's seven years younger.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

Got it. And seven years younger. Okay, so so 13 and two years, so 18. And then the your parents are still together. They are not. They're not. How long ago did they divorce?

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Maybe like eight or nine years ago.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

Okay. So so you were like 11, 12. About. Okay. And then the is your is your dad still in your life?

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Somewhat.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

Okay.

unknown 34:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Are you trying to tell me I have daddy issues? No, I'm trying to hopefully. He's like, you say it. You say it.

SPEAKER_04 35:07

I'm trying to figure out if you do or not. Um, it it it's hard to say because you seem very you seem mature for your age, obviously. Um, which is which is why you gravitate towards older people, probably. Um but uh it's it it's it's hard, right? It's hard to establish whether or not some women do gravitate towards older people because they have the added daddy issues or because they're mature and can't get along with a 20-year-old boy, right? Like that's probably more of it, but in your case, it might be just both.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

I I think my relationship with my father definitely has something to do with that. I think, you know, like subconsciously, it's like because there's this void here, I'm looking to fill it in some way. Um, but I do think another huge part of it is I have had a lot of trouble connecting with 20-year-olds. I think the sweet spot is probably like 30s. But sometimes, you know, you ebb and you flow. You meet more mature people who are a little younger, you meet, you know, cool people who are older. Sometimes the older people are super immature, and that, you know, would result in incompatibility.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

Sure, and be dating five other women at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 36:20

Now I feel sorry for you guys. I feel like y'all's generation is cooked for the crazy. Like every guy I meet is just like, oh, like very like, oh, he's just like sad and like, oh, woe was me. And like it's like go go fucking work. Like, what do you get to work? Like, I don't know, I was raised old school, like my dad is very like that type of

App Fatigue And The 20 Questions Loop

SPEAKER_05 36:40

old school father. So, like, all these participation trophies, and like, you're great just the way you are. Like, not really, like, maybe like go work on your like go to the gym, you know. Like, Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

Do your mom and dad not believe in soulmates either?

SPEAKER_05 36:54

I've never asked them, but I don't think they're dumb, so probably not. Probably not.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

That is funny. It's um, it's interesting to me. I I can't really there there's there's something that I can't get out of my head, which is that one girl reaching out to you guys. Um and and you're saying that he was telling her everything about all the other girls. Did you ever ask her why he was telling her?

SPEAKER_01 37:25

I think he I knew he didn't have a lot of friends. He he did have his best friend, which I honestly I do think this was his like one friend, lived in I think LA, so it's a little bit far and he wasn't up here all the time. Um and I think he just felt comfortable around her, you know.

SPEAKER_04 37:45

What was her reason? What was her reasoning for doing this?

SPEAKER_01 37:49

For reaching out.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

She actually said that she unsent the message a couple of times, but she she just felt guilty, I think knowing that he was leading so many girls on.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

And was that the actual reason? Like, do you believe that was the reason?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

I believe that was the reason. Uh-huh. Even even if there was another reason, you know, I'm happy that she said something, and if she wants him, he's ours.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

But it's just interesting to me when people do that. And I especially in this particular situation where um, you know, he told her things in confidence. And I guess she I mean, yes, every once in a while somebody wants to do the right thing, and that's understandable. But I don't think that I mean, it's an assumption, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

But well, to your point, what she did share about their relationship to me was he definitely treated her the worst.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

Okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

You know, and I think it sounds like that. That's what I thought it was. And I was just like, the glass definitely tipped, and she's like, Okay, screw you.

SPEAKER_04 38:57

Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. Because because I kept trying to think to myself, out of the goodness of her heart, it just uh doesn't make any sense to me.

SPEAKER_05 39:06

I will say though, like it is ironic that he was actually the most honest with her, right? And is you know, like he was kind of like leading on with her, he said something, but he was actually honest with her. He's like, Yeah, I'm seeing

Underage Risks, Military Towns, And Caution

SPEAKER_05 39:20

all these other girls.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

I know, I am surprised that he told her.

SPEAKER_04 39:23

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Um what would you describe as a perfect date?

SPEAKER_01 39:29

As a perfect date for you, obviously. For me, I don't know if I have a perfect date. I think like default first date is usually like coffee or beach walk.

SPEAKER_05 39:40

I hate coffee dates.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Why do you hate coffee dates?

SPEAKER_05 39:43

Oh, they just if just the vibe is so like businessy and like it's like hard to get on good topics. I don't know why. I can sit with a girl at dinner and we're vibing and everything's great. And if I would have met the same girl at coffee, it would just been like Really? Like, I don't know. I can't get on like get on a flow.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

It's interesting. We had another girl on the podcast last week and asked the same exact question, and she said dinner. She said, Don't do coffee. I hate coffee dates. Really? So it's it's very interesting the contrast between people, and it's just it's just there's and and this is what I always try to try to tell people is that there's not one right answer, right? Because it's just so personalized.

SPEAKER_05 40:23

Coffee is definitely the wrong answer, though.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

Okay, hear me out, hear me out.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

It's nice because it's casual, the stakes are low. The guy is spending what 10 bucks. This is why you're brain zoning all these guys. You mean it for coffee?

SPEAKER_05 40:38

They're boring because it's a coffee date. Of course it's boring.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

But you get energized, you get caffeinated.

SPEAKER_05 40:43

You know, it's a it's a you want to go get some work done. Get off of this date.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

I have a timer going. I'm like, okay, you're done. Like I got my pomador. Because there's no pressure. You know, you finish your coffees, it's going well, you can go for a walk or you could grab lunch. Drinks. But if it's not going well, you just leave. Like, oh, we finished our coffees. But dinner, it's like you have to sit through a full meal. Yeah, always get stuff in your teeth.

SPEAKER_05 41:09

If you say they have to pay so much money, drinks instead of dinner, that would be an acceptable answer.

unknown 41:15

But coffee.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

But did you hear what she said? She said the guy would have to pay so much money.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Yeah, I see. I'm thoughtful. That is very thoughtful.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

Actually, tries to look out for the guy that has no stake in the situation. No, I it's I really appreciate that. I think it's very nice.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Well, I also think it's like, you know, if you if you invest in something, like you might get a little emotionally invested. And I think if you know the date doesn't work out and they spent X amount of money, there might be expectations for a second one. And I think it would be pretty disappointing to realize, like, oh

Closing Thanks And Final Reflections

SPEAKER_01 41:50

my gosh, I just spent a fortune on our dinner and I'm never gonna see her again, and I'm gonna do this again tomorrow with somebody else. I try.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

No, that's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_05 42:00

I do think though, there's like I'm kind of joking, but at the same time, I do think there's like situations where you meet somebody, right? And if there's just drinking involved, both people will loosen up. Like maybe like the guy's kind of nervous, he doesn't like show his like full personality, or vice versa. Maybe the girl's a little closed off, and if they would have met over drinks, it's like now you're kind of loosened up, like you're a little more confident, and then you bit you get past that first hurdle where it's kind of awkward, and you actually would have had a great relationship, but the coffee ruined it because it's like then you're like more uptight, you know, you can't flow as well. I just feel like drinks is such a better I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

I think I disagree with that. I think drinks can be a really good idea, but I think it can also be pretty dangerous because I think people sometimes, you know, might go overboard and then you know they're a little too personal or I mean, yeah, a little too touchy, and then it's just you know just don't go on dates with loser guys, you know.

SPEAKER_05 43:06

It's that easy. It's that easy. I don't know why everybody doesn't just follow said we're right.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

Does height matter?

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Does height when you're looking at it on an app, I feel like yes, but then you meet them in person and it doesn't matter. It's weird. It's I definitely like taller men. I do, but I've gone out with shorter men, and it's in its essence, no, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 43:32

Okay so uh how tall are you? I'm five four.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Like five two.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

Five two. Yeah. Okay. Um okay, yeah. So so if a guy is five five.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

If they had the right personality, I'd be all for it. Initially, I'd probably be like, I know so many women who are I mean, a lot of my friends are my height, and they date very shortly. Short kings, and you know it's awesome. And I think you know, if I got to know somebody, that would not matter. But I think initially I would definitely be like, oh, just because I'm not used to that.

SPEAKER_04 44:09

Sure. So the suggestion then for the short kings is that they need to develop their personality as best as they possibly can in order to attract a woman and get rich, I think.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

And get rich. I think everybody should develop their personality, but I do think I think that would help anybody and everybody.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

The reality of it is that women tend to, majority of the time, put up with bullshit when the guy is very attractive and very tall and very rich.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

You're looking at her, minus the rich, but it just didn't happen to be rich. Well, it's funny because I don't know. I think a lot of us find people like that that are our ideal physical types, and we project our ideal person onto them. And in that, like we put them on pedestals and we do, you know, we make excuses for them and we accept a lot more than we would have with somebody else.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

Yeah, because I think it comes down to the boxes, right? You have all these boxes, and if three out of four, let's say, or two out of four are checked, and and the ones that are not checked are things that could be developed, then people tend to have hope, thinking that, okay, well, I could fix this person, versus you can't fix somebody's height. Right. Well, not without paying and without a lot of money anyway. But right, like those are those are the things. Like, if somebody's, you know, five five and has a shitty personality, you're like, okay, my boxes are not being checked. That like it's just like, is this worth it? And the answer is no, majority of the time. But then if somebody's, you know, six five and has a lot of money and is very good looking and just shitty personality, you're like, I'm gonna fix him, I'm gonna fix him, right? And you just become the delusional person of that relationship. So the it's it's very understandable overall. But um, okay, so do you think that women should submit to men when they're in a relationship?

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Submit in what way?

SPEAKER_04 46:11

Is is is there multiple ways of submitting to a man?

SPEAKER_01 46:14

No, no, no, just expand on it.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

Um, meaning the well, what what what is your definition of submitting?

SPEAKER_01 46:23

I can think of a couple, like just I don't know if you're talking about like very concrete submitting, like you know, following everything they say. Like you are they are the leader and you're just kind of toddling around. Is that what you're well?

SPEAKER_04 46:39

I guess everybody has sort of their um diluted definition, right? Right. But submission by definition means that when a man tells you to do something, you do it. That that's what submission is.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

I think in that context, no. I think there are situations where you know a woman should submit to a man, and in contrast, a man should submit to a woman.

SPEAKER_04 47:06

I think In what pos in what situation does a man could have positioned.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

I I think it comes down to respect. And I think if your partner is asking something reasonable of you, I think it would be reasonable to do that thing. But I think if they were asking something unreasonable of you, it would not be reasonable to do that thing. I think submission is a strong word.

SPEAKER_04 47:36

Okay, so you don't believe that women should submit to their men?

SPEAKER_01 47:40

I don't. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

Yeah, that's that's kind of what it seemed like. Because when when when a woman kind of you know is very hesitant to answer that question, majority of the time, that they just don't believe in the concept.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:55

Right. Um, do you find yourself to be more dominant when it comes to your relationships?

SPEAKER_01 48:05

I think that ebbs and flows. Like I found that it depends on the person I'm with. Like in the past, when I have like historically, I've been with a lot of emotionally unavailable guys, and in those situations, like I will literally assume the male role. Like I'm organizing plans, you know, I'm reaching out. And there have also been circumstances where like I will be with a masculine man and he takes the initiative to do things, and it's it's great. So I think I definitely prefer that side of things where the man is more dominant generally, but like I'm also not opposed to making plans. Like, I I just I think there's a balance.

SPEAKER_04 48:50

I don't think there is a balance. I think there is what you're used to uh versus what you want. I think you want a dominant man, which naturally what every woman wants. Right. But then I think because of the fact that you were your firstborn, you have two younger siblings, and you don't have your dad in your life, or didn't have your dad in your life from a very young age, you kind of develop this personality that you had to be more dominant. And so as a result of that, you're just used to it, and that's what you're comfortable with. And so you do end up attracting men who are unavailable as a result of the fact that you're just more dominant and you you end up taking control.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Totally. Well, I I think I reinforce that too.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

You know, because you go out on a couple dates with them and you see, like, okay, I realize I'm the one kind of organizing these things and taking on that masculine role, and then you give them a second date and you give them a third date, you know?

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Yeah. So it's just like hoping their masculinity is gonna come out realizing that they're just pussies. Yeah, understandable. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, but but yeah, I think that's that's a good way for you to recognize that you know, the minute you're starting to control the situation, that person is probably not right for you. Right.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Yeah, that's what I'm starting to see. It's finally, it's finally the realization is hitting you.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

Um would you marry a guy who's rich and very good looking? And let's let's assume that he has a great personality as well and treats you well, uh, but he cheats on you all the time.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

All of the time. That's a sometimes not so great personality.

SPEAKER_04 50:27

No, but but everything else is great. But or you have the option of being with a guy who's poor, has nothing, shitty looking, um, still good personality, sure. And never cheats on you, very loyal.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Well, is single an option?

SPEAKER_04 50:46

Uh no, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

So I have to marry one of these two men.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

Yes. There's only two men left on the planet, and you uh hold the um future of humanity in your hands.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Well, this is tough. Can I well, there are only two.

SPEAKER_04 51:04

It's actually weird because when I came up with the story, he's cheating. Who is he cheating?

SPEAKER_01 51:10

That's kind of what I was like, wait a second. There are two men left. What do I do?

SPEAKER_04 51:15

Two men and a bunch of women.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Well, I think I would have well, okay, if there are only two men left, I think I'd have to go with the poor one.

SPEAKER_04 51:27

With the poor one. Yeah. Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

Who creates the wealth in this society? It's the women.

SPEAKER_04 51:34

No, the one guy has all the money and is just gonna take all the money. And all the ladies are on the street. You and this poor poor broke guy.

SPEAKER_05 51:42

Although I guess in this scenario, if all the women just teamed up and decided not to recognize the value of money and go back to the barter system, then you would lose all the money.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

I think that's what would happen. I think society would be healed.

SPEAKER_04 51:58

Have you ever cheated?

SPEAKER_01 51:59

No.

SPEAKER_04 52:00

Um what what define cheating, first of all?

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Um, there are definitely, I think, levels of cheating and different ways of cheating. I think you could cheat emotionally and you can cheat physically.

SPEAKER_04 52:14

So what would you consider like what where is the line for you? Is is the okay, let's talk about the physical one. Is is only having sex cheating or is making out cheating?

SPEAKER_01 52:27

No, I think making out is cheating. I think it's intention that really defines whether or not somebody's cheated.

SPEAKER_04 52:34

But you can't but you can't prove intention.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

You can't prove intention, but the actions give it away. You know, if you're making out with somebody, there is an intention there.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

Okay, cool. So that's cheating. Um I want to find the line here. So is kissing somebody on the cheek cheating?

SPEAKER_01 52:53

Well, depends on the intention. Is it a friendly like peck on the cheat?

SPEAKER_04 52:57

You can't you can't tell. You can't. You just see it. You just see it from a photo, video, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

I wouldn't define that as cheating. Okay, I think it would warrant a conversation, but sure.

SPEAKER_04 53:09

Um emotional cheating, where does that where where is that line?

SPEAKER_01 53:13

I think just entertaining.

SPEAKER_04 53:16

Okay. So if it if uh if your boyfriend said to another girl, oh my god, you're so beautiful, is that cheating? No. Okay. If he said, Oh my god, you're so beautiful, I um would love to have sex with you. Is that cheating? No, no, I'm just I'm just asking the question. Okay. Now, is it cheating if the girl is hitting on him? No. Okay. So if what about if he says, Um, I want to go hang, I want to get grab lunch with this girl. Some girl that uh he knows she's interested in him, but he's not interested in her.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

I mean, if they were friends, no, it's not cheating. If he's just entertaining it to entertain, I think that's more of a personality flaw.

SPEAKER_04 54:07

And I think you think it's a personality flaw if he wants to go.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

I mean personality below.

SPEAKER_04 54:13

That's that's totally fine if that's what you think.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

I think like it it might change my perspective on that person a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 54:19

Got it. So you don't you okay, so you're pretty much open-minded, you just don't want your partner to think about another woman while in a relationship with you.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

Well, I don't even think it's thinking about. I think it's natural for us to be attracted to people and to think about other people, but I think it's like because like I said, it's like like love is a choice and partnership is a choice. And I think if you consistently choose somebody else over the person you're with, I think like in that sense, I I think cheating would be the thing that would end that relationship.

SPEAKER_04 54:58

Okay. Should you have access to your partner's phone?

SPEAKER_01 55:02

I don't think it's necessary. I think if it's something you know both people are comfortable with and they're like, oh here, I don't care. And you know, both people hold up their phones, it's like sure. But I think if you feel like there's a reason that you should have if your partner said, I don't want you to know my password or touch my phone. I mean, that's a boundary.

SPEAKER_04 55:25

Okay you know, if there was a reason that that's that's automatic reason that he's doing something shady.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

I would not, no. I I think if I felt the need to have access to his phone, I think that would be you know the underlying reason. You know, like okay, then he must be doing something shady. If I have this feeling that something's off versus him like just blatantly saying, like, oh, you know, I just based on my intuition, right?

SPEAKER_04 55:52

Okay. Um have you ever felt like that with anybody you've dated?

SPEAKER_01 55:56

Like that I've wanted to check their phone or that there's something.

SPEAKER_04 55:58

It just felt like there's something, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Definitely. It was it was that it was the tall foreign boy. And it turns out the what?

SPEAKER_04 56:08

The seven-month relationship.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

The seven-month one. Yeah, it turns out he was still on Hinge and he was like messaging people. And I only knew because I so I I deleted the app, and then for some reason I just had this feeling that he was like talking to somebody else or entertaining something else, and he wasn't open about it. So I I was curious, so I I re-downloaded the app and I saw that all of his pictures were updated.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

It's like that was such a lame move. You know, you could have at least like I mean, I'm happy it wasn't a hidden thing, but come on, like at least like use the same picture.

SPEAKER_05 56:45

Yeah. Did you bring it up to him?

SPEAKER_01 56:47

I did.

SPEAKER_05 56:48

What did he say?

SPEAKER_01 56:48

I brought it up so indirectly. I was like, hey, my friend swiped on your hinge. And I saw that you're, you know, a couple of things were updated, and I was just curious, you know, where that was coming from.

SPEAKER_05 57:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

You're so mature.

SPEAKER_05 57:04

The most mature people I've ever had on the show. Hey, excuse me, so good to see you definitely.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

Well, I think I think it's good not to assume that there was a negative intention, but I also think you like there was definitely a big lesson I learned from this. And I Jay Shetty worded it really well. He said, he was like, Sometimes the right people say the wrong things, sometimes the wrong people say the right things, but you have to trust patterns and not what people say. And I think in this situation, I had so much faith in what he said. Like after this situation, he responded in the same way he always did. It was, I hear you, I respect you, and I'm I'm so happy that you felt comfortable talking to me about this. I just want you to know it's not what it looks like. It was more of a game for me. He he called it, he was like a he called it an are you pretty game, just to see how many matches he got, I guess. Which I still continue dating him for like another month or two.

SPEAKER_05 58:03

Did he say it like that?

SPEAKER_01 58:04

He said it like you I understand that's how he's how he talks. It's not even I actually that was so attractive.

SPEAKER_04 58:12

That's very manipulative strategy in order to get the other person to feel so gay.

SPEAKER_05 58:16

I hear you.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

I don't think it's gay.

SPEAKER_04 58:17

I think it's women actually really much connect with it.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

Because you feel respected and you do feel like they're listening and you notice that they're responding instead of reacting.

SPEAKER_05 58:27

But can't you say it in like a not gay way?

SPEAKER_01 58:30

I wouldn't call that gay. I think you can certainly word it differently, but I think you know the impact of that is very it's heartfelt.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

I I think you're thinking that because you're reading it the way that she's saying.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

He doesn't have my voice. It still seems like I hear you.

SPEAKER_05 58:48

Like, I don't know, it just seems like something.

SPEAKER_04 58:49

No, it could be I hear you. I hear you.

SPEAKER_05 58:52

Yeah, it does sound better when you say it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 58:56

You gotta get ear surgery. That's okay. Have imagination have imagination. Okay, so and then and then so you accepted that you heard what he said. Right. And accepted all the bullshit that he gave you. Yes, I did. And so what so what led to the breakup? And then did you when you broke up with him, what was his response?

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Um, so what led up to it was there was just this pattern of like, you know, we we saw each other maybe like once a week, and it felt like every time we got together, like there was something that I was like, hey, like we we've talked about this, and this is something that's really bothering me. And I kept I kept giving him out. So I was like, if if this is not something that you feel you have the the desire or the capacity to do, then I don't think this is right for us.

SPEAKER_04 59:50

And I just, you know, like I hope Did you ever have a conversation where you were in an exclusive relationship?

SPEAKER_01 59:57

Uh we did.

SPEAKER_04 59:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Uh how how it wasn't it was an exclusive relationship. There weren't any labels, it was just seeing each other exclusively.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:05

Got it. Okay. Um, and how how uh how long through the dating process was this?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

I want to say like three months.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:14

Got it. So and during the first three months, do you feel like you guys were seeing each other more often?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

We were.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:22

Okay. And then after the three months, it just kind of dropped off.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:25

Was it after you started after you had that conversation? Like around that okay, got it. Um got it. Okay. Yeah, it seems like a it seems like a pattern from um from guys who do have commitment issues, but also um he didn't want to be honest with where he was.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:50

And so he then just started to kind of drift off a little bit and not have a communicative um I guess uh time with you where he was kind of giving you the the benefit of the doubt of just letting you hear him.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:11

And so you just started to be shady and then just avoidant, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

It was an anxious avoidant loop, right? You know, and it just kept going in circles where it's like I I would accept those things. Like he would push away, but then you know, it would come back in a positive way and I'd be validated, and I felt validated, so I felt comfortable staying. And yeah, I think just getting sick of that is what led to me ending it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:38

Do you feel like um do you feel like it's okay for your partner to watch porn?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

Totally. I mean, to each their own. I I wouldn't want to hear about it necessarily, you know. But yeah, but do what you want to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:03

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Um okay. So now that you're I mean, you're you're still on the app, yeah? I am still on hand and just kind of going about it. Um do you feel like you should at all change the way that you're meeting men?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

I think so. I've actually I've noticed over the last like two months I have not been using the app, even though like my account's still on there and stuff. Every now and then I'll open it and then close it because it feels like such a chore. And I I actually I started dating at a really young age, and I, you know, would go out with these people continuously and it would always be a new person. And you know, the the conversations get so redundant. And I think it's because there isn't always an intention behind going out with people. You know, if you meet somebody in person and you guys click, it's like you set a date, and the intention is for that to progress into something. And then I think to contrast that on dating apps, everybody has a different reason for being on there and they're all looking for something a little bit different. And I've definitely like made sure to have those conversations before I see people, but I've also noticed that the last few dates I've been on, I've just been sitting there like, I don't want to do this again.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:28

Coffee, stop doing the coffee.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

It's not even coffee. I've tried dinner, uh beach walk. It it's just like it's all the same conversation.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:37

You know, I wonder if it's just like because the guys are probably also going on a ton of dates, so they're kind of just like after a while, they're just dialing it in. It's like, oh, so where are you from? Yeah, cool, oh, what do you do? Like they have the same little like, you know, list of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:51

I swear to God, it's the same like 20 questions over and over again. It's bizarre.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:58

It sounds like a black mirror episode where you're like the date, it's like robots, you know, or some shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:03

What um what was the youngest were you well how were you ever under 18 when you dated somebody over 18?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

Oh yeah. I mean, I've I think I was like 17 and I was talking to somebody who was like maybe 20, like 19 or 20.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:21

Okay. I mean that's that's not that bad. Yeah. Because I always wonder when when girls are like 16 or 15 or whatever and date somebody they're who's like 24, 25, 26. In St.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

Clemeni, you always have the military guys coming around, the like high school girls.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:39

Oh, is that a thing? That's a thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

That's a Saint Clemeni thing because the base is in Oceanside right next door, and they're always in St. Clemeni on the weekends.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:48

Uh-huh. But they're hanging around the high school.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Well, they hang around like the main areas in Saint Clemeni, and they're often like a lot of kids running around.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:57

But is it because they you say kids like my arms? Uh-huh. So these kids um are do they look like kids, or are they just like kind of hanging out and then because you see if you see okay, so I'll give you an example. Like, I was I was driving and I was like passing by um Beverly High School, but I know where Beverly Hills High School is because my brother went to Beverly Hill High School. And so um, but on the street, like a few blocks down, I'm I'm seeing like these, like there's like two girls and a guy. Okay. The girls um and the guy look like like they could be like 20, they could be 19, like whatever, they could be 18. Um, so you know, sometimes you just you can't tell because like they don't look that young. Right. Right. But then sometimes obviously they do. They look like they're 14, 15 years old. So is it the situation where like these guys are hanging out there and they could tell that these girls are young, or is that like it's kind of ambiguous and they can't?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

I think it's ambiguous. Okay. I also hear of a lot of situations where it's like, you know, they find out the girl's age and then they like.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

Yeah, it always blows my mind when that happens. And I'm just like, are they not afraid of I mean, you just like getting just being just getting caught itself. Right. Right. It's just such a crazy like thing because you're gonna be a sex offender for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

Totally. Well, it's it's just also interesting because you know, as you get older, the age gap doesn't necessarily matter as much. But I feel like at that age, it's just kind of like, you know, something that you should not do.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:35

Right. And now they got all those YouTubers catching people and like putting them on blast. I'm like, aren't you scared of that happening too? Like you show up and fucking i show speeds there. Like yeah, exactly. This girl is you know, we have your text right here. Like, aren't you scared of that? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

Yeah, it's kind of crazy stuff. It is bizarre. Yeah, thank you for your honesty. You're welcome. Assuming that you were appreciate you being on the show, and I wish you all the best with uh your upcoming experiences of uh finding love.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

Thank you. Thanks for inviting me. Thanks for watching.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:12

We'll see you later.