Dating App Burnout Ft. Brinley - Ep.182

Special thanks to Brinley for being a part of this episode of Unattainable Podcast Show 

We sit down with Brinley Walker to unpack why dating apps feel like a Black Mirror loop and how a “go with the flow” mindset can quietly turn into letting someone waste your time. We get honest about situationships, marriage, jealousy, validation, and the difference between being chill and having real boundaries.
• Astrology as an icebreaker and what “Capricorn energy” signals in dating
• Dating app burnout and why first dates start feeling like interviews
• Meeting people while drinking and the gap between nightlife personality and real life
• A Halloween run-in with an ex that triggers the ick
• Ghosting dynamics and the numbers game of high-demand matches
• Clinginess vs expectations and how attachment can show up early
• A four-month situationship and the cost of avoiding hard conversations
• Honesty when dating multiple people and why it protects everyone
• Why a past relationship ended and how distance amplifies incompatibility
• Marriage as a logical commitment and why “the next step” leads to divorce
• Love languages and what a thoughtful first date looks like
• Insecurity, social anxiety, and growing up trained to seek approval
• Submission defined as trust with boundaries, not control
• Open relationships and why possessiveness changes the rules
• Defining cheating and how anger, forgiveness, and accountability collide
• A friend fallout after a traumatic incident and the need for explanations

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Transcript

Cold Open On Dating Frustrations

SPEAKER_10 0:00

My name's Brinley. I go by Brindley Walker. I am a fashion stylist and my star sign is Capricorn. Capricorns are they tend to be very like hardworking, very intense. He didn't even say hi to my friend's boyfriend. He just kind of pushed him out of the way. Really, the only time we ever hang out is when he's texting me to hang out. In the past, I've gotten so attached. I care about people's feelings a lot. I don't believe in cheating. He was like in that in the beginning, and then it kind of started to occur to me that we were just maybe on different different pages. Five years. I think that's the that's the cap. The dating apps are not working for me. I know that I will know when I'm gonna be married to someone. I think I've gotten enough information from this conversation where I'm like, okay, yeah. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Welcome

Meet Brinley And Astrology Icebreakers

SPEAKER_00 0:52

to Unattainable. Glad to have you with us. I'm your host, Zach Evans, here with my co-host Mohammed Mulle. And today we got a special guest on the show. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience, your name, what you do, and your star sign?

SPEAKER_10 1:04

Love that. Um, my name's Brinley. I go by Brindley Walker. There's there's more to that. Um, I am a fashion stylist, and my star sign is Capricorn.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Capricorn? Yeah. Interesting. Very unexpected.

SPEAKER_10 1:20

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Like you seem like a nice, sweet, bubbly person, but you know, I guess there's two sides. I see I get that a lot.

SPEAKER_10 1:27

I feel like a lot of people are always like guessing, like Libra is probably what I get the most, I would say. Like everyone always says that I'm like I give Libra energy. Exactly. Which makes sense because my oh god, I'm so bad with like astrology, but my ri Oh gosh. My sun and or no, sun is my I think sun is your main one.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

I'm like, Moon and rising. This moon and rising.

SPEAKER_10 1:56

Moon and rising are double Libra.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_10 1:59

So like, which is how you present yourself, which I don't know how I know that, but I don't know, like moon and star. I don't know. Um, but yeah, I'm a I'm a Capricorn.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

It's kind of crazy, but yeah, yeah, Capricorns are bad for my mental health. Um what way? Very fun. You know, in what way? Up and down.

SPEAKER_10 2:18

I'm like, elaborate on that. I'm like interested in my face.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yeah, I mean, I've had a couple well, one main Capricorn ex that was kind of my spicy, fiery ex. Right. And did some things that were maybe questionable, but you know, I honestly think she was just misunderstood. You know, I had one of my friends asking her, Oh, she was toxic, blah blah blah. I'm like, okay, I'm a guy, like, she's toxic, it's not that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

I I also used to be very toxic back in my villain era. Okay, so now I'm very shine romantic, of course, but like back in the day, yeah. Of course, for sure.

SPEAKER_10 2:52

That makes sense. I mean, Capricorns are tend like they tend to be very like hardworking, very intense, and like a little more blunt, which I'm not super blunt. I don't think, at least. I I'm more like, yeah, like bubbly and fun and have a good time. Like, I'm gonna get along with mostly anyone, but I will immediately like I know when a person is like bad, not bad news. I don't want to say bad news, but like I can, and I also don't want to say like feel their energy, but I can like I feel like I can normally tell by a small situation when a person is like someone I don't want to be around kind of thing. I want to be surrounded by people that are like encouraging and like wanna, you know, engage and like just live life and have fun, but I don't know.

Dating Apps And Organic Chemistry

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Did you have an experience where because I know LA, yeah, it's like the probably hardest place to date in the world. Did you have an experience where you know you learned to read people because you got kind of tricked or bamboozled?

SPEAKER_10 4:06

Um, yeah, I mean, definitely like so my last relationship was in 2020, oh gosh, 2023. So like middle of 2023, I want to say. And I feel like I after that, there was like probably a year of me like on and off still seeing my ex. So I wasn't really like out dating, and then I finally got to the point where I was like, okay, let me start like going on dates and stuff, did the whole dating app thing, which is my nightmare. Huge mistake mistake, yeah. Huge mistake, and I like want to meet people organically, genuinely, but it is it's also like hard because I feel like a lot of like events that I'll go to are like out drinking, so like I feel like you don't fully see someone's true, like you know, how they act day to day. Like you can meet someone when you're out drinking and like they're your bestie, and like you're having a great time and like you're vibing, whatever. And then you see them on like a normal day when they're like you know, not drinking, and you're like, wait, so your personality sucks. Like, what what what's going on here? Like drinking made you funny and fun, and like this is not who I who you actually are, exactly. So um, sorry, I go on tangents sometimes and I like forget where I started. Um, but yeah, I feel like I started dating, did the dating app thing, and then I I just I I was on a a little spree for a moment. I was like date after date after date, like I would set up like probably three to four dates a week.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah, book the camera.

SPEAKER_10 5:52

I was just like, let's book it up, let's just get to know people, let's just vibe. And then I was getting to the point where I was like, okay, so none of these people are second dates for me, and this is not going anywhere. And I kind of got over it.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

The the problem with dating apps is as you're booking up three, five, six dates a week, the other person is also booking up three, five, six days a week. So then I remember because I I haven't done online dating since like 2017 or something, but I remember I was doing that. You just get on all the apps and then you just like schedule as many as you can. That's insane. Like it gets to the point where the date feels like like uh almost like a black mirror episode where it's like you talk about the same shit over and it's like here we go again. Oh, what do you do? Oh, like where are you from? Oh, cool. It's terrible. And it gets terrible, it's like exhausting.

SPEAKER_10 6:46

Oh, a hundred percent. Like, I feel like it's like it feels like an interview. You're like, oh yeah, you know, I grew up here and like I do this, and like I do this day to day, and like, oh, where's your family? Like, how many siblings do you have? And it's like the same questions and it's like on repeat. But I mean, there were definitely like certain dates where I was like, okay, like this could be good, and then you go on a second date, and then it's like ghost down.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

They ghost you or you ghost down or something. Oh, they ghost me.

SPEAKER_10 7:18

I don't ghost people. If I if I don't see it going anywhere, I like all those people that I went on a single date with, I'm like, hey, you know, I had a great time, but I like I just don't feel like this is going. Like I can see me seeing a future with you. Not necessarily a future, I think I word it differently in the moment, but I'm like, you know, I don't want to lead you astray. I don't see a second date coming up. I don't want to waste your time. I don't want to waste my time. Yeah, like I don't want to waste anyone's time, just like I don't want my time to be wasted. So I just kind of lay it out on the table and I'm like, do with that what you want. Some people don't necessarily get the hint and they're like, okay, yeah, for sure. Try, I'll try again in a few months and like see where you're at. And I'm like, no, babe, actually, like, we're we're not, we're not, this is not not continuing. But um, yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 8:15

I feel like how many days did you go on?

SPEAKER_10 8:18

Oh gosh. Like, I wanna say I wanna say like seven to ten essentially. Total. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:27

You said you went on the suspender of going four to five a week. It was that would be two weeks would be ten. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 8:36

I well, okay, so some of them, some of them did go a little bit longer than like one date. So it was like, oh gosh, I'm trying to think. Cause this was like right after I like broke up with my ex. It was like in the midst of with with the ex situation, there was a moment in time where like after we broke up, we were still like talking, still seeing each other. Yeah, exactly. Until like it hit the point. I think it was like for let's see, July, like four months where we were like on and off, whatever. And then like there was a situation that happened, and what situation?

The Drunk Ex And The Ick

SPEAKER_10 9:15

Yeah, so basically, I just I to sum it up, I saw another side of him and with your exit. Yeah, which is which is so okay. I'll just tell the story, I'll just break it down. So I was you know, talking to him here and there. We were chatting it up, whatever. I wasn't seeing him for a while because I actually shortly after we broke up, moved to Dallas, Texas, for like six months-ish. Yeah, like six months for work. And so I wasn't seeing him or anything, but we would talk here and there, and then we'd get in like little petty arguments that just blew over eventually. And then it was October of 2023 when uh I was going to San Diego for one of my best friend's boyfriend's birthday, which is I I want to say it's like the 29th of October. So it's very close to Halloween, so we always just like go out on Halloween, like have a good time. It's like also celebrating his birthday. And we went to San Diego because they lived in San Diego at the time. And I he I don't remember if it was he texted me or I texted him, but I think he he was like, Oh, what are you doing for Halloween? And I was like, Oh, I'm going, I'm going down to San Diego. And his parents live close to San Diego, like in Encinitas. So he was like, Oh, I'll be down there too. And I was like, Okay, like cool, like, you know, we're going downtown a little bit. Like, if you're down there, you know, feel free to join us. Because my friends like knew him, and like I was like, whatever, join us. I don't really care, it'll be fun. And we were like on pretty good terms at this time, and he was like, Oh, we're at this bar, and I was like, Oh, okay, like we're actually headed there right now. And we I actually didn't see him first, one of my friends did. And she was talking to him, and she's like, Oh my gosh, how are you? He was very, he was the type of person like when we were in a relationship, he was very like he was very loving. He was a great boyfriend. Like, honestly, we had a great relationship, and he was very attentive, attentive to me, and like just like a loving, warm, bubbly person. Not bubbly, but more so just like he was very he was easy to talk to, and he just like fit in in any situation. And he was like I guess a little rude to her, and we always like had this uh nickname that we would call him, and sh like all my friends called him that too, and she referred to him as like the nickname, like, oh go get your girl, because he was like, Oh, I'm gonna go find Bryn. And he was walking away, and she said, Oh, go get your girl, and then insert a nickname. And he like turned around and was like, Don't call me that. And she was very caught off guard by that, and she's like the sweetest person. I mean, like two of my very close friends, and she had no issue like calling him that name because like they always called him that name. And I'm going really deep into details here, but um, that was just like a little detail that was very just not like his character to turn around and be like, don't call me that. Like it was like she was like caught off guard.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Was it like a derogatory nickname or like something that was like?

SPEAKER_10 13:11

No, not at all. It was it was his name, just like a shortened version of his name, like Bryn for me. Bryn Brinley.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

So, did you ask him, hey, why did you get so mad about the nickname?

SPEAKER_10 13:23

So that's not like the whole story.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 13:25

So, like, that was like a little thing, and I didn't hear about this until after the fact. And then he came up to me. He was clearly very like intoxicated, maybe on something else too. I'm not sure. Like, nothing confirmed, but um it just he didn't seem like himself. He was always very he was never like he never like acted like a dick. Like it was always very like he was just a fun, sweet person. And like once he gets to know you, like he'll he'll joke around a little bit, but like he was never like cocky or like anything like that. So to see him like and I didn't see it essentially, but like kind of snap back at my friend. I was like, Oh, that's really weird. And then he came up, he didn't even say hi to my friend's boyfriend, he just kind of pushed him out of the way and was like, Brynn, and I was like, Oh, hey, like, how are you? And he I could just like tell, like he was and like obviously, like I've seen him intoxicated before, like it wasn't anything I hadn't seen before, but it wasn't how he normally was. It just felt like very weird. I felt like a shift in his energy from the like from the So you got the ick.

SPEAKER_05 14:43

What you got the ick. Yeah, I mean But is this all that happened?

SPEAKER_10 14:50

No, so he was acting a little bit crazy to sum it up. Basically left. I was like, oh, we're going somewhere else. I did get the ick, essentially, is what happened.

SPEAKER_06 15:01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_10 15:02

And then later in the night, was just being even more extreme, yelling at my friends, and I was like, Whoa, dude, like this is crazy. Like, you need to, you need to chill out. And he's like, Why aren't you coming home with me? And I'm like, I don't like I I just felt like I didn't like recognize him.

SPEAKER_05 15:21

Okay, so so he was drunk and he acted aggressively. Yes. Is what happened. And then you got dick. Yes. Damn, that took a very long time for you to tell that story.

SPEAKER_10 15:29

I know this is this is where I have to I have to get to the point. Like, I will drag on a story forever.

SPEAKER_05 15:37

Do you think this is the reason why you don't get second dates or you get ghosted?

Why Dates Ghost And How

SPEAKER_10 15:41

Ooh, that's a good question. I don't know. That's a good that no one has ever like brought that to my attention, though. I do go on tangents for sure. Like, I will talk and I will go on tangents, like tell a story forever.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Yeah. Maybe you need an introvert. I'm like, doesn't want to talk, and he's like, cool, I can just we're gonna have to talk about it.

SPEAKER_10 16:03

He's like, I can just go listen to her just yap all day.

SPEAKER_05 16:07

Yeah, we're gonna have to put a disclaimer in the very beginning of the continue listening, she'll get to the point at some point.

SPEAKER_10 16:13

She talks a lot. No, literally, I I don't know what it is. Like, I think it's just like I think too outside of like just the direct thought.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

You're very similar to my mom. She like, she like she could talk for like like that woman could literally like she'll be on the phone and she'll talk for like 30 minutes, and like I'm not even like I haven't said a single word. I just put the phone and I'm like gone. And then she's just talking, and I'm gonna just come back. She's still talking. She's still talking, and I and I literally am like, um, so okay, so like I gotta go soon, and then she'll be like, You don't want to listen to me for all that you're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_10 16:52

No, you're literally just like keep talking. I don't think so because I think like on dates, I'm very interested in a person and like I want to know more about them, so I ask a lot of questions.

SPEAKER_05 17:04

Okay. But I why do you think is the reason why you don't get second dates? Um or you get ghosts is really mainly the question.

SPEAKER_10 17:13

I don't know. I really never I never took the time to really pinpoint it. I feel like I I don't know. I genuinely like I I I don't. I I'm completely like, I don't know. I'm like, oh, and I I'm fine with it because I'm like, okay, like we just didn't vibe. Sometimes if it is initiated by myself, like where I'm like, hey, you know, I don't see this going anywhere type thing.

SPEAKER_05 17:43

It's interesting to me because you're you're obviously attractive. So the very first step for men to kind of feel some feel the desire to want to continue with someone is like being physically attracted. 100%. Yeah. And so the fact that do you Okay. Do you think that the times that you got ghosted um are more frequent than the times that you rejected somebody else?

SPEAKER_10 18:14

And no, like I think I've rejected more people than I've ghosted than I've been ghosted.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Well, I'm pretty sure I've uh I know why you get ghosted. Really?

SPEAKER_10 18:23

Oh, I've I've loved it.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

My theory might be wrong, but but I'm pretty smart, so it probably isn't so okay. You're going

Hookups, Expectations, And Clinginess

SPEAKER_00 18:29

you're going on all these on I'm I'm putting the piece of the puzzle together. You're going on all these dates, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Most of the guys you're not that interested in because maybe they're just not that confident, they don't have that chemistry, they don't have that charisma, whatever it is that makes you attract. 100%.

SPEAKER_10 18:44

And I know that like from the get-go.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

The guys who do got it are also the guys that every other girl on the app is like Oh, I really love this stuff.

SPEAKER_11 18:55

100%.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

So for those guys, they're doing a calculation in their head. They're saying, okay, I've got five dates lined up this week. This girl over here is gonna sleep with me on the first night. This girl over here didn't. Do I want to go on a second date with this girl? Maybe she'll make me wait to a third date. She's gonna make me put in a lot of effort. This girl over here hooked up with me on the first date. I'm just gonna keep having to do it.

SPEAKER_10 19:18

Yeah, just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

I think that's what happens.

SPEAKER_10 19:20

I mean, I think like, yeah, I mean, a hundred percent for sure. But like, I yeah, I don't know, I don't know. I really don't know what it is because I think there's certain people, like the the guys that have ghosted me, I've gone on a few dates with, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

But did you guys hook up or no? Yeah, that's what you're doing.

SPEAKER_10 19:43

Not on the first date, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Later on, date.

SPEAKER_10 19:45

Like later on, like I'm thinking of one example in my head, like probably third ish day, then we hooked up, but like I I Do you have a clingy personality? What? Do you get clinging? Not really. Like I I think before I was, and by before I mean probably probably in the time that I was like dating these people. Because I think more recently I've kind of stepped back and I'm like, I don't I try not to think in my head like oh, I'm gonna like marry this person or oh I'm gonna this is gonna go somewhere. I just let it happen.

SPEAKER_05 20:29

So you were clingy at the time when you were dating. I think I was.

SPEAKER_10 20:32

Okay not necessarily clingy, I would say I'm more like I have an expectation in my head of like, oh, this is gonna lead, like, oh, we had a great first date, oh we had a great second date, oh now we're going on a third date. He's texting me, he's calling me, like this could go somewhere, type of thing. You're calculating, yeah. Like I'm yes, a hundred percent. Like calculating, like, okay, yeah. These signs are giving very much like this could go somewhere. And I I don't know, that's probably the wrong approach.

SPEAKER_05 21:08

Did you say uh I don't know if you mentioned this? Where are you from?

SPEAKER_10 21:11

Simi Valley.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_10 21:13

Real bros in Simi Valley. I don't know if you guys are familiar, but I don't even tell people I'm from Simi Valley anymore because I'm like it's pretty obvious, but I you think it's obvious that I'm from Simi.

SPEAKER_05 21:25

I mean your accent is like really, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 21:28

No way, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:29

And I was just like wondering, I was like, did she pick that up? Because there are girls who moved to LA and just pick it up. Yeah, yeah. And so it was either that you picked it up and just a valley girl at heart. Right. That's funny. Um, okay, and then so the the the ones that you rejected, what were the reasons you rejected them?

SPEAKER_10 21:50

Um yeah, I would say mostly like I mean, I have to be attracted to someone, like I have to be physically like I can I can get On with someone, like I think a sense of humor is a huge thing for me. Like, I have to have someone with a sense of humor and a sense of like just banter and like conversation. I have to have someone that knows how to have a conversation and feels like they're interested in me to some extent, but I don't like expect the world, especially on a first date. I think most of the people that I have rejected is initially because of attractiveness, but then also like I think it goes hand in hand with just a banter in general. Which are type physically I don't so thinking about like all my exes, I don't necessarily think I have a type. Like I don't I dated so many different looking people.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

Which is the shortest?

SPEAKER_10 22:52

Ooh. Like no one shorter than me, definitely. But like probably I'm 5'8.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 23:01

So, well, I'm 5'7 and three-quarters. To be to be very specific. Um I would say, like, probably maybe the same height as me is probably the shortest.

SPEAKER_05 23:15

Got it. But you're not like they have to be like six five.

SPEAKER_10 23:18

No, no.

SPEAKER_05 23:19

Yeah, but if you got heels on, then you can see that's the thing.

SPEAKER_10 23:23

That's the thing. It it it becomes a little more difficult with the with the heel situation. Because I'm like, okay, I'm going on a first date. I'm like, this guy's this guy's hinge says he's 6'1, which I don't really know if that's true. Like, that's probably not super accurate. Yeah, you're like downplayed to make the inches in the 100% standard.

SPEAKER_05 23:48

Right. And the guy's got the height and girls got the the face tune. Right.

SPEAKER_10 23:53

Well, there you go.

SPEAKER_05 23:54

The face tune is always calculated, and you can't be getting fat catfish 24-7 and not get catfish in return.

SPEAKER_10 24:02

That see, see, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

I mean the problem for guys is like if we don't line our height, then every other guy does. So the girl is tunes. Like, let's say a guy's like 5'10, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Well, if he puts 5'10, he's gonna assume 5'8 because he's probably okay. So like you have to put ten.

SPEAKER_10 24:22

Preparing for it.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

It's like when you set the clock ahead, like, you know, 10 minutes, but then you figure out that you set it ahead 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_10 24:29

It just makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 24:30

Or in your description, you're like, I'm not lying about my height.

unknown 24:33

Right.

SPEAKER_10 24:33

Exactly. You're you're pointing it out, you're making it, you're making you're making it known.

SPEAKER_08 24:38

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_10 24:38

Yeah, I I feel like I normally like I don't ex yeah, I don't expect like a yeah, someone who's 6'5, but I, you know, someone who's the same height as me. But it's not like a deal breaker for me if it makes up in other ways.

SPEAKER_05 24:55

Ethnicity doesn't matter. No. Okay.

SPEAKER_10 24:57

So they could be dated like all types of people, white, black people, yes, Asian, yeah. Whatever. Not a lot of people. I don't know if I've dated Asian. Okay. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_05 25:06

Um, and then how many people have you been in a relationship with?

SPEAKER_10 25:11

Um, like I don't even know if I would count like my first relationship. It was when I was very young.

SPEAKER_05 25:19

Nothing under 18 counts.

SPEAKER_10 25:21

Right. So well, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 25:27

So you have seven years.

SPEAKER_10 25:28

Like two?

SPEAKER_04 25:32

Two relationships. How long were they?

SPEAKER_10 25:34

So last relationship was let's see, like almost two years. Like a year and then two years. And then well now that I'm thinking about it, like what relationship was I in before that? I don't think I under over 18. Yeah, no. Actually just the one.

SPEAKER_05 25:59

Just one relationship, okay. And then so you have you've been single since 2023. Yes. Since October of 2023. Um so I what okay, are you are you currently you're not on date dating apps or you are?

The Situationship Boundary Reality Check

SPEAKER_10 26:17

Um I am I am like on dating apps. However, I have been seeing someone recently.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Okay. Situationship.

SPEAKER_10 26:31

I don't even know if I like to call it that, but essentially, essentially that's what it is.

SPEAKER_05 26:37

Uh-huh. How long has that been going on?

SPEAKER_10 26:40

Since October.

SPEAKER_05 26:42

I mean, that's a pretty long time.

SPEAKER_10 26:43

Yeah, it's a good I mean It's like four months. For me, like, I'm not I'm not seeing anyone else. I'm not like on the dating app. Like, yes, I have a profile, but I'm I'm not on it.

SPEAKER_05 26:55

On it. Sure. And so it but he are you waiting for him to make it official?

SPEAKER_10 27:00

Yeah, because like normally I'm the type of person to kind of like push that and be like, hey, like what's going on? And like be a little bit more clingy, but I think with this specific person, I've I'm really challenging myself to just do my thing.

SPEAKER_06 27:22

Uh-huh. Interesting.

SPEAKER_10 27:23

Because I I think too much into things. Like, oh, I don't get I mean, every at least every girl that I know is like this. Very like calculated.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

How many times have you guys been on dates, would you say, for the past four weeks? Like, how many dates have you been on? Okay, let me rephrase that question. How many times per week do you see each other?

SPEAKER_10 27:44

Um, not, I mean, I would say on average, probably like once a week, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 27:50

So from a guy's perspective. Yeah. Okay. I want to hear it. Because because this is what I I feel like you're struggling with something, which is which is very interesting to me. Yeah. Um, and that is that you you you are very clingy, and that is why you're losing these guys. Okay. And now you're trying to overcompensate.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 28:12

And and I think you've you've gone past the line of lack of self-respect.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 28:18

Okay. And and and so you're looking at the situation as like, hey, I don't want to be clingy, but there's a difference between being clingy and actually have boundaries.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

Right.

SPEAKER_05 28:28

And the boundary being that like I don't want to be played.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Right. 100%.

SPEAKER_05 28:33

If you're looking for something serious. Now, if you're not looking for something for serious, then that's a completely different story, right? I am. But if you are, and that person isn't, four months is a very long time to be just dragging somebody along as like, hey, I'm, you know, we're just fuck buddies.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

Right.

SPEAKER_05 28:50

And so what it sounds like from a guy's perspective is that every once in a while you guys are hanging out.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Right.

SPEAKER_05 28:55

And whatever happens, happens. And then he just goes about his life, and you're kind of just like waiting because you're like, hey, I don't want to make the same mistake as I did in the past. Yeah. But in reality, he there's this is not a serious thing.

SPEAKER_10 29:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense a hundred percent. And like I think like the part that kind of makes me want to give him his space and give him his time, which may yeah, maybe I am being a little too like lenient with the boundaries kind of thing, is his ex situation. Just being okay, so I don't really know. I only know to a certain extent. I know that, and this is coming from his friends, but also like a little bit from him here and there.

SPEAKER_05 29:47

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_10 29:47

We haven't gotten into that conversation.

SPEAKER_05 29:49

After four months, you haven't gotten into that conversation. No, we haven't. It's fucking crazy. Continue.

SPEAKER_10 29:53

Is that crazy?

SPEAKER_05 29:54

Yes, it's absolutely wild.

SPEAKER_10 29:56

Normally I do. I think I'm just like taking the boundaries back, like maybe a little too much, to where I'm not even like pushing that because but I should, but I should be able to like ask those questions. Of course. If you're seeing someone four months, yeah, that's a good like now that you say four months. I'm like, that's I mean, this is a very good time.

SPEAKER_05 30:21

And and you're and you're saying because you're saying if if you had said, and I'm if you had said I'm open and I'm like seeing other people and like blah blah blah, no problem. Right. Your thing, right? Right. But when you're saying that I've put myself aside for this person who I've been seeing for the past four months, and you haven't been able to have a single serious conversation about his ex situation, right, is that that's just that's crazy.

SPEAKER_10 30:47

Right, is a little bit crazy. No, now that you're saying it and you're putting it like that, that makes sense, and like I think I don't know what I guess I was trying to reassess a situation, like the situation I'm in, obviously, and like step back and be like, okay, maybe I'll just approach this differently. I'll act like I don't care, essentially, and like I'm not texting him, I'm not asking him to hang out. Like, really, the only time we ever hang out is when he's texting me to hang out, and that's once a week. It's yeah, ish. I mean, we've been on a few trips together.

SPEAKER_05 31:28

Listen, you're fuck buddies. I'm just being honest with you. No, and I'm not sure. If a guy wants to hang out with you and wants to be with you and wants to spend time with you, they're not gonna hit you out once a week.

SPEAKER_10 31:39

Yeah. No, we we talk every day, but but to see each other, do you live in the same place? I no. So I live in CME right now.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_10 31:50

Um he lives in Brentwood area. Okay, you live in the same place. I mean, yeah, I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_08 31:58

He doesn't live like too far.

SPEAKER_05 32:00

He doesn't live in like you could have said San Diego and be like, okay, maybe like he does he another state. He lives like 20 minutes away.

SPEAKER_10 32:07

Right. Right. Like, what do you mean? It's not that far. You know, it's in the same area, essentially, yes. Yeah. But no, I think you're right.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

I think it's like But you guys talk every day, like on the phone. Yeah, we talk.

SPEAKER_10 32:21

Yeah, um, not always on the phone. Okay. But like we we do call each other a lot. Like texting every day. I'm also like not a huge I just don't like texting.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Yeah, I'm the same way.

SPEAKER_10 32:32

I'm like, oh hey, how are you? I'm good, how are you? How's your day? I'm like, oh, this is boring. And like I'm doing stuff. I'm also like busy, so I don't really care if like someone doesn't ask me to hang out because I'm like, I'm doing my own thing anyways. So like that's kind of where I give myself a little bit of like grace, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 32:55

Of course, it's a very Capricorn of you.

SPEAKER_10 32:56

Yeah, I'm just like I'm doing I'm at work, like I'm working and I'm busy. So I don't know. But that does like that put that puts like more into perspective for me because I'm like it yeah, like four months is like a good amount of time where you're like okay.

SPEAKER_05 33:14

I can 99% guarantee you that he's saying much of other girls.

SPEAKER_10 33:18

Yeah, right. Well, okay, then okay, what about like his friends have told me that like before before we started seeing each other, he was like going on dates. Uh-huh. And it was just like one date here and there. Like one date, that's it. And then when he started seeing me, and this is where like I don't want to get brainwashed. But I feel like when he started seeing you what? Um that he like quote unquote settled down a little bit more. But I'm like, I don't know. Like, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_05 34:00

It doesn't mean anything, right? It just means they're trying to like keep you around, they're try they're backing up their boy. Like, that's what it means.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Is it plausible though that maybe he's like super busy? Does he have like a busy job? Like he's like always.

SPEAKER_10 34:12

Yeah, I mean he has a nine to five-ish, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Does he have hobbies?

SPEAKER_10 34:18

Um, I wouldn't say hobbies.

SPEAKER_05 34:20

Does he have he doesn't have his own business?

SPEAKER_10 34:22

No.

SPEAKER_05 34:22

Okay. This guy's fucking with you.

SPEAKER_10 34:26

I'm like, okay, so now I need to reassess everything. No, I mean, I was already, I feel like the past two weeks I've been kind of disconnected. Yeah, a little bit. Sure. Like kind of just like reassessing and being like, I mean, you don't seem heartbroken. Yeah, no, oh no. I'm like, and I think that's what's benefited me because I think in the past I've gotten so attached, and I'm like, oh my gosh, it's going so good. And then I'm just like thinking that it's gonna turn into something, and then it doesn't, and then I'm like, oh my god, my life is over. Like, what's happening?

SPEAKER_05 35:01

And look, he could there, there is there is a lot of different circumstances for a lot of different people. Right. Right. And of course the situation, obviously, generally speaking, these are sort of sort of the behaviors that people have. But and in his situation, he could be going through, you know, some emotional situation with his ex or whatever the case is. But the reality of it is that if if somebody wanted to keep somebody around and they actually cared about this person, where they say, Hey, like, I I see this has taken a while with us, like I just want you to know, like, I'm I'll be there, but like wait for me or whatever, but this is the explanation. It just sounds like you don't have a good idea of like what's going on.

SPEAKER_10 35:44

Oh, a hundred percent. And that like makes sense. And I I feel like I kind of thought that at a point. I was like, I probably just seem like I'm just like, yeah, like I'm just sitting here waiting, and like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

I mean, there's a way to figure it out.

SPEAKER_10 35:58

Being like Yeah, oh, oh, there is.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Well, not secretly, but so back in like I'm like, what's the way? I used to hate back in my fuckboy days. I'm recovering fuckboy days. Right, okay. But the worst, like the hardest thing to play defense against is when girls would call me when it was like date like 8 p.m., 9 p.m. when I might be hanging out with another girl. Because if you text him, okay, he can text you. Yeah, if he calls you, or if you call him, like, okay, he can either not pick up, have an excuse.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Okay, maybe that'll work one, two times, but then it's like, how come you can never pick up at 8 p.m.? Like one time, oh, it's my mom's birthday or out or whatever. Right. But then it's like, wait, why can you how come every time I call you at 8 p.m. you can magically like busy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 36:49

So that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

So that's an optic. It's very hard to play defense against defense.

SPEAKER_10 36:54

I'm like, okay, so there's a strategy here.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 36:58

But then I'm like, oh, that's like stuff. Like, I don't want to investigate.

SPEAKER_05 37:03

Oh, you don't you don't have to. This is not this is this is right, right. You don't this is not.

SPEAKER_10 37:07

No, I think I've gotten enough information from this conversation where I'm like, okay, yeah. Bye.

SPEAKER_05 37:12

Like the leader. Here's the thing. You could it you could do what's right for you, which is just like keep your options open and just go see other people. You know what I mean? You don't have to break the world to in order to end things with somebody that like you're just kind of seeing each other once a week. Right. But it it also but are you a type of person that like can only focus on one person at a time emotionally?

SPEAKER_10 37:35

Um I don't know. I feel like I I have my my moments where I'm a little more like lenient with like seeing multiple people at once, but then I also I care about people's feelings a lot, like maybe sometimes too much, to where I'm like I'm like, okay, this doesn't feel right, me seeing these two people at once, and like yes, it's it's okay. It essentially it would be okay if I like let them know, like, hey, you know, I'm seeing, you know, I'm seeing other people, but is that like necessary to like announce that to someone?

SPEAKER_05 38:15

I think honesty always works best, right? I've realized that like any time that I was in a situation where I emotionally couldn't give somebody something that they wanted, or um I was uncertain, so I was you know, just seeing multiple people, or whatever the case was. Right. Me being honest with them just allowed them to make their own decision. 100%. And the reality of it is if you're seeing two people and those two people then decide that okay, you know, that's fair. Like I'm you we're seeing each other and we're trying to figure out where things go, and so we'll keep our own options open as well, or one of them just bows out, then so be it.

SPEAKER_06 38:53

Right, right.

SPEAKER_05 38:54

And um, but at least you were honest, so then your conscious is clear.

SPEAKER_10 38:58

No, a hundred percent. I feel like that honesty is you know the best policy.

SPEAKER_05 39:04

So why did you and your ex break up?

Why The Firefighter Ex Ended

SPEAKER_10 39:08

Um I think I was just talking about this actually. Um I think like from the beginning it was very like it was it felt rushed in the beginning. Like we kind of rushed into a relationship and it just like happened and it was comfortable and like whatever. And then you know, I began to like love him, and then I wanna say it started going I there were like things like I'm not really a jealous person, like I don't really I just I just don't get jealous very easily, I would say. And he was very jealous, like I feel like it showed like some insecurities, and I never gave him a reason to like wonder what I was doing when I was like out and about. Like there was a situation where I was going to a friend's like birthday thing, we were all going to like a Dodger game, and it was me and like all my guy, it was like one of my guy friends. Everyone that was going, all the girlfriends, whatever, everyone knew the birthday person essentially. And I didn't invite him. And I like to have my time away. Like, I like I his thing was like, why wouldn't you invite me? Like, I want you everywhere with me. Why don't you want the same? And I was like, I just like like my time with my friends. Like, I you know, I want to be able to be in in it with them.

SPEAKER_04 40:43

I don't want to have to like cater to your needs, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 40:47

Cater to your needs and also like be worried about what you're feeling and what you're feeling. Yeah, exactly. And so I was like, you know, I kind of had to explain that situation, and he was like, Well, uh he brought up something like like you would never cheat on me or something, and I never did. Like, I was like, I'm a very I don't believe in cheating. If I'm gonna cheat, I'm going to break up with that person. I mean, like, I'm not gonna cheat, essentially. Like, if I feel the need to like go see someone else, like I'm gonna end it. Like, I'm just I I'm a very trustworthy worthy person, and like I don't I just don't think it's right. If you're in a relationship, like you just you don't do that. And and I never gave him that reason. Like I never gave him a reason to like believe that I would ever do that or ever like disrespect him. So it felt like a jab at me. And then I think it just I think it just got dragged out a little bit too long, and then I he actually got like a new job, and he was gone a lot. Like he would be gone for like two months, and like I we wouldn't he wouldn't have any cell service or anything, and he was he was a wildland firefighter.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_10 42:08

Okay, so he would be you know in whatever Canada or something for like two months, and like I would hear from him here and there, and then he'd be like, Oh my gosh. They they like don't know when they're coming home until like the day before, essentially. Like for the most part, they're like, Oh, I'm coming. He's like, I'm coming home tomorrow. Like, do you want to hang out? And I I think I just started pushing him away in the sense that I resented him. And I was like, I wanted to, I was really happy for him. I was happy that like he found because he was in like marketing before, and I was like ha I wanted to be so happy for him that he found something that he truly loves and like he's excited for, and like he had to jump through a lot of different loopholes to get there and so I was I think in the beginning I was trying really hard to be like happy for him, and then it got to the point where I was like I don't feel like I'm also just I I need to see someone like frequently. Like I was used to being with him like every single day, and then he would and then he got this job, he was gone for like a month, and then like two months, and then like three weeks, like and it was ongoing, and he would be home for like two days, and then he's like, Oh, I'm leaving again, like talk to you never kind of thing. And I feel like it just slowly over time just became very I I started I don't know if I started to realize that like I didn't have the love I thought I did for him, or if it was just did I like was I just over like the situation?

SPEAKER_05 43:54

Like, I mean it sounds like you guys had a a connection that was purely purely ph physical. And so his presence would reassure the connection. But then as soon as he was gone, you didn't feel the need to stay connected to him.

SPEAKER_10 44:09

Yeah, it felt like I was we were also like, I mean, when we started dating, I was 21, he was or no, I was 20 and he was 29. So I felt like we were in like different parts of our lives. Like I wanted to like, you know, go out, have fun, like whatever. And he was like in that in the beginning, and then it kind of started to occur to me that we were just maybe on different different pages. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

A lot of times when guys are older, it's like they're in that scene when they're like looking to find a girl.

SPEAKER_06 44:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Like they don't really want to be in that scene. And once they have a girl, they're kind of like, Okay, what are we gonna do? Like go dance at the club, like you know what I mean? And then they wanna, but then you're still in that scene. So it's kind of like uh I know it's it's hard.

SPEAKER_10 44:53

It was like, and I feel like I've come like I've come a long way since then. Like, I think, you know, I realized that yeah, maybe it was the age difference, but maybe it was also just like our personalities. He wasn't funny at all. Like he thought he was funny, but he was not funny, and that's like a huge thing for me. He'd laugh at everything I said, and I was like, that that's not even that wasn't even funny what I just said. Like, why are you why are you laughing at that? And his sense of humor was just like not there.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Was he like super good looking or like what?

SPEAKER_10 45:32

Not I like don't want to say that, but like not even.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Was he smart?

SPEAKER_10 45:36

I mean, he was smart. Okay, so that's he was smart, he had like he was very ambitious, like he had goals, he had like you know, he was always doing something and like wanting to try new things, which I like adore.

SPEAKER_05 45:53

What's the oldest person you've dated?

SPEAKER_10 45:55

Him.

SPEAKER_05 45:56

Nine years apart. Yeah, nine years apart. Yeah. What's the oldest person you would date?

SPEAKER_10 46:01

Um I mean now you're 25, so yeah, so it's like a little bit different. I think like at this point in time, like I guess 30 would be I don't I don't know though.

SPEAKER_04 46:15

30 that would be five years difference.

SPEAKER_10 46:17

Five years. I think that's the that's the cap. I really I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_05 46:21

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_10 46:22

I I don't know. Is that crazy?

SPEAKER_05 46:24

Five years difference, 30 years old, you're 25.

SPEAKER_10 46:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:28

I mean, you've dated somebody nine years older than you.

SPEAKER_10 46:31

Right, but I also feel like I I suppose your argument would be that it didn't work out.

SPEAKER_05 46:36

So you should be dating younger. Usually it's the opposite.

SPEAKER_10 46:39

Usually, like it's like when girls are younger, there's a smaller one, and then once they get older, like and that was like my thought process, I think, in the beginning when I first started dating him. I was like, oh, he's older, like, you know, he's like mature, and like he has everything like you know, he has it all figured out.

SPEAKER_05 46:54

And like how old is the guy that you're currently dating?

SPEAKER_10 46:58

He's a year older than me. Okay. So like basically the same age. Yeah. But yes. Um, I like I don't know. I think I would be open, like if I really genuinely like I'm not opposed, obviously, I'm not I don't think that I would ever date someone like 50 years old.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

Right.

SPEAKER_10 47:17

Like my the age of my father, like I'm like, that's just pushing it a little too far. Like I don't know. I would be open to exploring things, but I wouldn't be like, I'm not, I don't know. I'm I'm always open to like exploring things, but that's that's that's funny.

SPEAKER_05 47:38

So now that you're off well, now that you've uh broken up with your ex.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Right.

SPEAKER_05 47:47

Well, okay, let me rephrase this. Now that you're no longer gonna be seeing the guy that you're in a situation with Right, yes.

SPEAKER_10 47:54

We've established that.

SPEAKER_05 47:55

Yeah. Where do you think um you're gonna go and look for well it's it's not it's not right to say that you're gonna go look for somebody, but like where do you think you're gonna um would be the most ideal place to for you to find someone?

SPEAKER_10 48:12

Um I think that the dating apps are not working for me. Sure. Which I actually didn't meet him on a dating app, to be fair. Um he DM's me, which like he found me. So essentially the same thing. Uh I think like organically. I I think genuinely I'll meet wild. 100% and I think I'm moving next month to Newport Beach.

SPEAKER_06 48:37

Nice.

SPEAKER_10 48:38

And I think that you know, I'll be I'll be out on the town and I will meet someone organically, and like that's what it'll be.

SPEAKER_06 48:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 48:47

And like I don't know. I guess I'll just see. I'm a I'm a very strong believer in like it'll happen when it happens. Like, even my ex, like I wasn't ever looking, like at that time, I wasn't looking for someone, I wasn't fully seeking out someone. I had actually just like, you know, fully like stopped going on dates, stopped looking for anything, just was enjoying single life, and he just you know came into my life.

SPEAKER_05 49:17

So I was like, What's your worst dating experience?

SPEAKER_10 49:21

I don't really have anything actually that crazy.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

You've never had a bad dating experience.

SPEAKER_10 49:26

Like, let me think. I'm like never anything like crazy to where it was like Do you have any traumas?

SPEAKER_05 49:33

Or did you have like a very decent upbringing?

SPEAKER_10 49:35

I had a very decent upbringing. I would say like I I didn't have I think the most traumatic thing for me growing up was You tripped and fell on the ground. Right. Tripped and fell, you know how to get up, it was the whole thing. Um more so like my parents growing up, they were very like they they just brought us up in like a just a great environment. And like they always supported us. Like I grew up very, you know, were you a middle child? Um I'm the oldest. I mean of two. So I have a little sister, she's two and a half years younger than me. Yeah. Um and my parents, like, I had a great upbringing. Like, I don't have any are they still together? Yes, they are.

SPEAKER_05 50:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 50:27

They they went through a rough patch, and I think that's like where some of my it's not I I wouldn't consider it trauma, essentially, but that's like the most traumatic, I think.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

In my yeah, it's like I feel like nowadays everybody, oh, I have so much.

SPEAKER_10 50:47

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

My mom held me too tight when I was little, and now I have trauma, you know.

SPEAKER_10 50:53

Well, yeah, and that's the thing. I'm like, it's it's not necessarily trauma. I think it's just like, and it it just happened, it was in my life, and like that's how did they get out of it? Um, how did they get out of it?

SPEAKER_05 51:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 51:07

I feel oh, I don't know. I mean, they re I want to say they more recently got out of it in the past like couple years or so.

SPEAKER_05 51:16

Are they religious or not?

SPEAKER_10 51:17

Yes. My I was brought up in like a Christian home. My whole family, I would say, like on both sides are like very Christian. And so when they had this bump in the road, it was very like it was very it it took me off guard, honestly. Like I was very like, okay, well, um, this is crazy. And I was very involved in it because I was I would say my sister was more of like not like she was just there, but like she was she was younger and she like didn't she wasn't in it. I was a little bit older, so I was in it on both ends, and it was very like it was very intense. It was it it just it was always something that I never knew, never saw coming, essentially. Um and but it also taught me a lot. Like I think that they came out of it because they committed to each other, and I think that they, you know, they still have their bumps in the road, but nothing is like insane as like what happened with them. Sure.

Marriage, Divorce, And Commitment Logic

SPEAKER_05 52:29

Um Do you believe in marriage?

SPEAKER_10 52:31

I do. Like, what do you mean? Like to like just believe in it.

SPEAKER_05 52:36

Do you believe like marriage works?

SPEAKER_10 52:39

Like works in the sense of like it unites people and it makes people like it out last for the rest of your life. Right.

SPEAKER_05 52:46

Um is it realistic to to assume that marriage would last a lifetime?

SPEAKER_10 52:52

I think it's I think it's realistic. I think that in this day and age, like I have so many friends like in the past probably four years that have gotten married, even when, you know, I had friends that were getting married at like 20, 21, like very young, which like my parents got married when they were my mom was like 22, so she was young too. But I just see all those people now getting divorced and like they're they have children within like at the span of a year. Like I have a lot of friends that have gotten married and now have been divorced, like since the question. So I'm like, I think it yes, if you have that mindset, like if you have the mindset that you're going into like but don't you think all of those people had that mindset going into it?

SPEAKER_05 53:52

Yeah, I think they stood in front of the aisle and they said until death do us apart.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Yeah, but here's the problem with marriage is everybody okay, most people I believe get married because whoever they happen to be dating at the time, when their brain goes, the next step in life is to get married. You know what I mean? Like, right, why is there such a high percentage of people that just whoever they're dating after high school or after college, that's who they just get married to.

SPEAKER_10 54:21

Yeah, 100%. No, I think you're so right. Like, I yeah, it is like essentially the next step. It's like, okay, well, we've been dating for, you know, since high school, like almost, I don't know, anywhere from five to ten years now. Like, what do we do now? Let's get married, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 54:40

Do you want to be married?

SPEAKER_10 54:42

I do. I don't know if I I I think I want to be married, but I don't like I don't think you don't think it's realistic for you. I don't think that like I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen.

SPEAKER_05 54:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 54:57

And it's not because I like want to be like, oh, I'm never gonna get married. Like, it's just like not for me. Like, it's nothing like that. It's more so just like it's a big for me, it's a big, it's a big thing. Like, it's not just like, oh, let's get married, like let's go, like, you know, spend the rest of our lives together and like start having babies and like live together. It's like, no, you're like, I believe that if I do get married to someone, I will spend the rest of my life with them and I'm committed to them. And like I will have no question, I won't even question it. Which I don't think, like, like to your point, like I don't think most people think that in the moment, and then like later on, you know, you go through rough patches and you get you know, you get to the point where you're like, okay, well, maybe like I don't want to be married to this person anymore and I'll just go through a divorce, like kind of thing. But I just don't from my perspective, like I just know that I will know I will know if I'm if you think to be married to someone.

SPEAKER_05 56:05

So you think once you think you know, that you know for sure.

SPEAKER_10 56:11

Not that I think I know, that I know I know. Like I will I know that I will know when I'm gonna be married to someone. Right. So at some point I feel like, okay, so like my ex, for example, we did talk about marriage. Like we we fully like he was like, Oh, I'm gonna go look for rings and stuff. And I always was very I was open with him in the sense of like I was like, this is kind of scary, like this is very intense, like, but in the moment I was brainwashed, so but like I guess like I don't like I'm like I don't know like now that I'm thinking about it, okay. But also I feel like I've come a long way since then.

SPEAKER_05 56:54

I feel like I you will be coming a long way since then forever.

SPEAKER_10 56:58

Right.

SPEAKER_05 56:59

The time is always I don't know.

SPEAKER_10 57:01

I just feel like I'll I'll have a different feeling.

SPEAKER_05 57:05

You'll have a different feeling when you're 30, you have a different feeling when you're 40 and 50 and 60.

SPEAKER_10 57:09

You'll always have the maybe maybe it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 57:14

But the problem is marriage shouldn't be feeling based. Right. It's it shouldn't be an emotional decision. What shouldn't be your what should be a it should be a logical decision. You should be getting married because it's the right thing to do for for the both of you, number one, but also you have gone through every single scenario in your life where things could go wrong and you understand what your value systems are, right? And you communicate at every single one of those things, right? And I think people just people struggle communicating their value system because they don't know themselves.

SPEAKER_11 57:45

100%.

SPEAKER_05 57:46

And what ends up happening is they get into relationships and they make emotional decisions.

SPEAKER_03 57:50

Right.

SPEAKER_05 57:51

And then one day they start to realize that they acted out of emotion as opposed to logic. And and and the other part of it is a lot of people struggle with going through hardships. They don't want to get through pain because they always think that the grass is greener on the other side. Right. Yeah, no, I'm just saying. And this this concept of I won't put up with this because I deserve better, right? Is what we've come to believe as sort of the new age of, you know, whether it's social media or whatever you want to call it, technology or whatever. Because you always see other people and your brain is always thinking, wow, somebody else has it so much better than I do. And the reason why your parents or our grandparents or whatever their marriages worked was because they they struggle and they understood that this is a struggle and they have to work at it. Because marriages work. Right. It's not supposed to be honeymoon phase forever.

SPEAKER_11 58:47

100%.

SPEAKER_05 58:48

But also you could create honeymoon phase just based upon the connection that you have with that person. But you have to work at it. You have to constantly be dating this person. Right. Because you want to be dating them, because you care about them, because you love them.

SPEAKER_10 58:59

100%. No, that I agree with what you're saying.

Love Languages And First-Date Standards

SPEAKER_05 59:04

What are your love languages?

SPEAKER_10 59:07

What are the love languages again? What legacy is that?

SPEAKER_05 59:10

So physical touch, gift giving, um, words of affirmation, quality time, and uh acts of service.

SPEAKER_10 59:22

Oh yeah, acts of service. Um I would say I would say a physical touch and what? That's number one. Yeah. Um like acts of service. Or like what's your least gift giving, probably.

SPEAKER_05 59:48

So you don't care if somebody gives you gifts?

SPEAKER_10 59:51

I mean, like, I do care, but it's not like a valuable thing. Oh my gosh, you gave me a gift. Like or like I don't I I wouldn't be like I would rather for like say my birthday or something, I would rather have like oh well see now I'm saying quality time. Like I would rather have like a trip of some sort. Sure. Or like just spending quality time, something special planned, um, than like I don't know, a Chanel bag or whatever. I mean I would love a Chanel bag, but like But it's not like oh you didn't give me a Chanel bag, like yeah, yeah. It's not I don't want to go to freaking whatever. Sure. You don't care about it as a it just doesn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:39

What's a perfect first date?

SPEAKER_10 1:00:41

Oh the question of the century. Um perfect first date. I don't know. I feel like I mean the guy has to pick me up.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:56

Like that's like a non-negotiable, like not send you an Uber, not pick you up physically.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:03

Yeah, I've been sent an Uber before, and I'm like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:08

I'm like, what if he lives far away?

SPEAKER_10 1:01:10

Okay, like valid, I guess, but like explain yourself. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:16

So so so imagine a guy from LA would have to come to Newport, pick you up, take you to LA, which I mean that's kind of stupid because I think that if if you're gonna set up a date, just set it up in Newport. Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Um you could just drive to his house and then he drives from there to the date.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:32

And I've done that too. But then I'm like, I mean, it's not like I get what you're saying, like.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Come over here. I've been I've learned my lesson in this situation because if you go on a first date with a girl and she goes far away and then you pick her up on the first date, now that's the expectation, and now I'm spending like half my life in traffic.

unknown 1:01:59

Right.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:59

But it's like if you set the expectation, like And like I have I have grace for that. Like, I'm like, okay, I don't expect you to drive like I don't know, an hour every time, and then like an hour back. Like, that's a lot. I think it's more so just like No, but it's worse.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

It's an hour there, hour back, and then another hour there to drop a lot of hour back.

SPEAKER_10 1:02:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

Like, would you accept an Uber on the way home?

SPEAKER_10 1:02:22

Maybe it's not a non-negotiable, maybe it's more just like depending on the situation. Depending on the situation, and like if it's like, you know, if it's like a okay, I'm sending you an Uber like or like if it's explained, I guess. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

But what if it sends you like an Uber black? You know? You know, that might change the big thing.

SPEAKER_10 1:02:46

That might be solid enough to be like. I would love a limo. Some cake. Like I'm I'm in. I'm in for that. No, I feel like it like a limo and a masseuse.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:59

Right.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:00

See, I would love that. I'm like, oh, this is a this is a deal.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:04

I feel like it's not a non-negotiable.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:07

Damn, that's actually a good idea for a business. A little like limo and a limo van with a masseuse in the back, and the meantime, you're just getting a massage while you get to your date. That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:20

Some champagne. I mean, it sounded like a perfect date to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

It sounded like a data's already over soon. That's what it's like.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:28

Right, not too.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:32

I'm out. For those reasons, I'm out.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:36

Oh my gosh, no. I mean, I feel like I would. I don't I don't know if I know a perfect date. Like, I think there's so many, like, I love to do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:47

You've been on.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:48

I love to do the best date. I know, I know. Forgive me. I know, I know. The best date I've been on. Um, like um, a guy took me to like that's not even that.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:01

Oh dear Jesus.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:02

Like Griffith Observatory. Like, that's not true.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:05

The best date you've been on, G.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:07

I haven't been on anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

Who the fuck are you dating?

SPEAKER_10 1:04:10

Not anyone crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

Yeah, but I kind of disagree because like I feel like first date, the best first date is just like drinks.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:16

What is the first date? Yeah, like I most of the first dates that I'm going on, it's like, oh, let's go get drinks, or oh, let's go get dinner.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:24

Like, but it's not a matter of perspective, though. Were they the best date for you? Did you think to yourself? Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

Like, was that because of the date, or was it just the guy was not that good?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:35

I just think taking girls to like drinks just so boring.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

Yeah, but you have to do fun, though.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:41

Yeah, well, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Like, I You gotta get off your spreadsheets and start looking like that. I guess I'm dating the wrong people.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:47

Like, I I don't know. I've never been on anything crazy, like, genuinely, I've never been taken on like a crazy date where I'm like, damn, like that was that was crazy. You took me on a helicopter.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:01

Like, people don't come up to you. What do you do for fun?

SPEAKER_10 1:05:05

Um, I I guess when like I'm not working, I I'll go. I go to the beach a lot. I love the beach. Um, like what do I do for fun?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:19

Um, we need to we need to show you how to live life. This is per this is just wild.

SPEAKER_10 1:05:25

I go well, like I do a lot of fun things. Like I'll go to Catalina for a day. Like I love extravagant, like little trips. No. Oh, we're gonna be with friends.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:35

With your friends, okay.

SPEAKER_10 1:05:35

Yeah. Like normally when I'm doing like fun things, it's like, oh, I'm going with friends. Uh-huh. I used to work at an aquarium, used to dive in the shark tank. Like that was fun. Um I literally work every day of my life, and everyone knows it too. I remind me I'm a workaholic.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:52

You remind me of my accent. You're it that's very Capricorn. It's just like it's a typical Capricorn. It's kind of crazy. 35.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:03

And um, and we talk about like last time I saw her, I was talking to her about this. I was like, are you like I was like, are you not worried you're gonna be single for the rest of your life? And she was like, you know, I'm I just don't think this is for me. I was like, I was like, I like this is just crazy to me. And she's attractive, so it's like kind of it's very surprising to me that that girls are becoming this like like cat women, you know, just like cat leaders.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:31

Very like just like, hey, if it happens, it happens. And like I'll just be vibing.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:35

I just like I'm I was terrified of being alone. Like that was like one of the main like I it's just like being alone at like 80 years old is it's just wild.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:46

Like no, yeah. I I think like I've I think that I was I want to say in the past like couple years, I've just started to like tell myself, like, if that happens, like let me prepare for the world.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:03

I mean you're 25 years ago, and you're expecting it.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:05

Right. Well, that's the other issue that I'm having. Like, I'm like, okay, I don't need to be like, you know, married off by 25.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:12

But like I think I don't know. I mean the fact that you're 25 and having these these thoughts while you're while you're seeing someone.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:22

Like it's like it's so telling of like but but it's but it's gotta it's gotta be your lifestyle that you have to change. You know, but it just seems like you're so nonchalant about it, like you don't care.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:33

Yeah, I mean I think that I think that I'm still in the process of like loving myself to to like the full extent that I'm waiting for that to be like that I'm fully in love with myself, then I'm like, okay, then I can love someone else. Like, I don't does that make sense? Sure. Um so I think that I'm like giving myself some time and I'm like, okay, like if along the way, if I like have some you know dates here and there and I like get along with someone, like see what happens, like, but I guess it's no use if I'm still in

Insecurity, Social Anxiety, And Validation

SPEAKER_10 1:08:18

the world.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:18

What's your biggest insecurity?

SPEAKER_10 1:08:21

Um probably I don't know, I guess just the way I look. Like I'm always thinking about like the way I look, which I've definitely like tried to veer away from that in a sense, but it's so hard in this day and age because you're you know, you're on social media, especially like as a girl, you're constantly like scrolling, like, but then I step back and I'm like, okay, let me remember that like there's Facetune and like these people don't live music.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:00

What's interesting is that that the answer that you gave is very common with people who are fairly attractive, and and and what's interesting about that is that people who aren't attractive don't have that insecurity because they've made their peace with the fact that they're not attractive. It's just like interestingly, people who are very attractive. But but but the people who are very attractive have that insecurity more so than any anybody else, which is just ironic. Because they constantly think they need to be more attractive and they're becoming less attractive.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

There's like a level of like you're attractive enough to like get things out of life that other people don't have access to. So then if you want to like maintain that, or you can get even more stuff. If you like below that bar, you're just not gonna get anything anyway. So it's like, well, might as well who cares, you know.

SPEAKER_10 1:09:50

Right. Well, that's the thing. I'm like, I don't I don't even know what it is because like I'm like, I I don't know. I think it's just like I genuinely haven't pinpointed like why I think that. But it's also like I just accept the fact that like sometimes I get too in my head about stuff and like I think too much into like what people think of me, but I do like on the daily, I'm like just don't care what people think about you, just do your thing. And I think I think I am on the way to that because of like your daily words of affirmation in the morning, right? Me in the car, driving to work, I'm like, you're you're pretty, you're pretty, you're pretty like you are you are the shit. Um no, I think honestly, fashion has like taken me to the next level. Like I've explored my fashion sense a lot, and I think that's what's taken me to just not care what people think.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:51

Well, I mean one would hope considering you're you're a stylist.

SPEAKER_10 1:10:54

Right. That would be pure records that right, but also like it took me a little bit to get there. I think like at first it was like it's it's like not it's genuinely just not caring what people think, like of your outfit and like of your what you look like or whatever, but like I think I would say like my biggest insecurity is my looks, but then I'm like I think it's also like I don't even know what bucket this would fall into, but like the things I choose to say out loud in social situations.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:30

Like what have you said out loud in social situations?

SPEAKER_10 1:11:33

Like, I I will say things and then I'm like, oh I I'll I'll think into so it's it's essentially like myself and like what I choose to say.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:42

I like not I can't think of anything in particular.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:45

But you have no filter, you're just kind of no, not even that.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:48

I would say more so it's like like there's certain people that I sometimes I find myself I'm very I'm very talk to. I I'll talk to anyone, but I do have some, and again, this is not diagnosed. I just think in my head, this is what makes sense, like social anxiety to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

Interesting. You don't come off like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:11

Social anxiety or social validation?

SPEAKER_10 1:12:15

No, I think like more, I mean, I think it would fall more so under social anxiety because like I will before I go to anything, I will be like thinking about okay. I hope this goes well. Like, I I will think way too deep into what this could be.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:34

Did you do that coming here? Yes. Uh-huh. Did you do that? Was that the reason why you canceled the first time?

SPEAKER_10 1:12:41

Oh, but okay, I didn't cancel. I didn't cancel.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

The first time I don't know what happened. And I forgot to send her the reconfirmation.

SPEAKER_10 1:12:47

Never mind. So, like, she never told me to time and then. Never mind that question.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:50

So you did that.

SPEAKER_10 1:12:52

Like, don't go on another dance.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:56

I was like, it's just irrelevant at this point. Alright, so so but you did that coming here.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:02

Oh yeah. Okay. Like I do that, I do that like honestly every day. I which is funny because yeah, like people always tell me, like, really, like, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:14

Do you feel validated afterwards?

SPEAKER_10 1:13:16

Um after an event or like after anything I do?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:21

Yeah. Cause because if you're if you're doing that. None I I mean, like, do you do you afterwards feel like what you thought was what happened?

SPEAKER_10 1:13:34

What I thought was what No. Not necessarily, no. I think every time I'm like a little bit surprised with myself. Like I think like I think I just doubt myself too much, honestly, like in every situation. Whether it's like I used to do like a lot of um little like events for brands, like giving out free product, at like you know, random, very random events, but like little like rooftop bars and like stuff like that. And I just like hang out with people who are just drinking on the rooftop, hand out whatever samples of what I was selling. And like I would just talk to people all day long, and I was there by myself, and I came there by myself. Like, I think that I just doubt myself a little too much. Like, I'm like, I think about what I could mess up on and how people can perceive me, and I get too in my head about it because I'm like, okay, I think I also just want everyone to like me. Yeah, so that's like validation. I feel like most, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's why it's a social validation. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:44

Um, yeah, I feel like So, but why where where does that come from? Why do you need this value? Why do you care?

SPEAKER_10 1:14:50

I don't know. Like, I don't, I I genuinely don't think that I know why I need it. Like I think it's just maybe it comes from just like I I I really don't. Like, I d I don't know where it comes from. I think that like obviously, yes, I want I want everyone to like me, but I do have to understand that like not everyone is gonna like me, and like I should accept that. But I don't know where it stems from. I like I've always I feel like I've always been the same way in the sense of like I am just genuinely myself, but I've always talked myself into things like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:36

Did you any pageants going up?

SPEAKER_10 1:15:37

No, I didn't. I was a dancer.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:40

I was a dancer and I was Who put you in dance?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:44

Your mom?

SPEAKER_10 1:15:44

Um no, I I wanted well, I wanted to dance, so yeah, my mom did. When I was very young, probably like three was when I first started dancing. And then and then I started doing a little bit of acting. I never did anything crazy. It was like more so just like I was going to do a lot of auditions, but I never like booked anything. I booked like a pilot once, and then I booked a few like print jobs, but like nothing crazy.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:14

That answers the question where the validation, where the seeking of validation comes from. From a very young age, you were put in this box of you need to, um, it somebody needs to approve of your presence, your um performance.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:30

Yeah, for sure. And like that's yeah, I mean, I was I was in competition dance. I was also like I play club soccer for a while. So yeah, I guess it was always like I I also am a little bit competitive too. So I want to stand out to people, I guess. So yeah, like it comes back to like seeking validation from people and like just people seeing me and like being like, oh, she's I guess sometimes and not all the time, but sometimes I'm like, I want to stand out from other people, and like but obviously in a positive way.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:12

Sure, you want to be different. Yeah, do you think you are different?

SPEAKER_10 1:17:16

Um I I don't know. I th I want to say yes, but then it's also like it's another thing where I'm like, I don't want to say yes because like I don't want to be like, oh, I'm so like I'm different.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:33

You don't want to be thought of the person who wants to be a different thing.

SPEAKER_10 1:17:35

Yeah, so it it just draws back to like people perceiving me in that different light of like, oh, she wants to be like different and like she wants to be like you know, stand out from other people or whatever. I I think I'm different in the sense of like I feel in certain situations that I stand out because I just like I'm I want to say I'm an easygoing person and like I just kind of like I'm very good with the flow. Passive yeah maybe a lot of people. You're very passive, yeah. Um I don't know though, like I wouldn't I wouldn't consider myself like so different because like there's a lot of situations where like I find myself like questioning like oh I feel like I'm kind of like blending in because sometimes I'm in social situations where I don't feel like I can be my bubbly fun self, uh-huh, depending on who I'm surrounded by, of course. But um I don't know. I'm I'm if a man asks you why should I choose you and why should I be with you what would my responsibility what do you bring to the table, right? Yeah I feel like I'm very understanding. I feel like I'm an understanding person and I will always I will always be open to seeing the other side of things and I take um I take feedback very well. Like if someone tells me like you know I don't like in a relationship, for instance, if someone says like, you know, this really bothers me the way you do this, I will I will like seek to understand. Reflect on it, actually and I I will try my very best to make the changes and like I will take that feedback and like implement it in my everyday life.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:43

Great quality to have for sure.

SPEAKER_10 1:19:44

Yeah, it's like I mean, I I will always want to see the other side of things, like understand why people think the way they do, or why someone has a certain like perspective on a certain like situation or a certain topic, whatever it may be. Like I will always want to understand why they think that way.

Submission, Trust, And Relationship Roles

SPEAKER_05 1:20:05

Should women submit to the man they're in a relationship with see that that word trips me up sometimes.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:13

Why is that like submit in the sense of like just like that just seems like such like a like I don't want to say vague word, but like it seems like such like a wide stretch, like submit in the sense of like like what?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:30

Well, in the traditional sense, what submissions mean what submission means is that if the the the man makes the decisions and has the last word, right? And so if a situation comes up where the man says, Hey, this is what we need to do, right? Submission would be that you would respect his his opinion, but also his decision. Now that doesn't mean that you can't have a word to say anything, of course you would have you would be able to express yourself, but uh obviously not everybody always agrees with each other, right? And so at some point, if somebody had to make the final decision, that decision would go to the man. I mean I think it's very situational in the sense of like Well, you do seem to have a more submissive personality than you do have a dominant one.

SPEAKER_10 1:21:24

I think so. I think I'm definitely more so like submissive for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:28

Like I But it's interesting that you resist towards that word when it comes to submitting to the man that you're in a relationship with.

SPEAKER_10 1:21:35

I think it's like the the phrase that throws me off. Sure. Like it seems like you're clicking. Submit to the I'm like, okay, I'm down on my knees, like I submit to you. Like that's what I I also had a friend that like she she married this guy and she he was like, you need to submit to me. And it was very intense. Uh-huh. So like when you say like sub well no, now they're divorced. So so not necessarily. Initially, she was like, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:07

I I don't know like all the details, but but did she did she ever say that did you ever get the feeling that she said yes and she was happy to do it?

SPEAKER_10 1:22:16

Yeah. I mean she married him, and when she realized after I it was a very short amount of time that they were married.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:24

Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay. So so in the beginning she said, I'm happy to do this. And like when she was explaining it to you, it sounded like she she was happy to submit to him.

SPEAKER_10 1:22:34

No, this was after. So after they got married, he kind of like Oh, he said that after.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:22:41

So it was this was after, yeah. He was like, Oh, you need to submit to me. Also, you need to do this, this, this, this, this, this.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:47

Like, otherwise, like But was she happy to do that, or was that a catalyst for the divorce?

SPEAKER_10 1:22:52

It was the yeah, it was the catalyst for the divorce. Yeah, okay. So that makes sense. Yeah, for sure.

unknown 1:22:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 1:22:57

Um, yeah, I think it's just like the phrase, like, you need to submit to me. Not you need to, but like submitting to a man, like it sounds like very intense.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:07

But I guess do you know a woman who's happy to do that? And they understand what that means, and they're and they have no question in their mind that that's a yes. Okay. Yeah. Do you feel disconnected from how they feel versus how you feel?

SPEAKER_10 1:23:25

Um, no. Because I mean, no, because I I mean, now I'm thinking about a specific person, but I don't I don't want to like Well, you don't have to say their name.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:23:42

Um I think like in the beginning of their relationship, she was a little bit more like submissive to an extent where she would just like let him just do whatever the hell he wanted.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:58

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_10 1:23:58

And in the sense, not like cheating or anything crazy. It was just like he would, you know, he would drink and then it would get to the point where it was like, okay, like he needs to not be like doing those things. And it was just more accepted in a sense. But I think that like now with how far they've come, I think that she has like a better grasp on it, but she still like submits to him essentially.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:28

I think there needs to be clarity on the fact that submission doesn't mean that the man is allowed to do whatever the fuck he wants to just cross every single line of boundary and has no boundaries, right? Because I think I think that's where the confusion sometimes comes with women, that they look at submission as like, is this person able to just take advantage of my boundaries and and who I am as a person? And the reality of is the answer to that question is no, right? Right. If if somebody is doing something that's wrong, if they're abusive, if they're um drinking too much, right? Whatever those things are. Those things are not are not things that a person should should be submitting to. Right. Because I think I think when you understand somebody's qualities in the very beginning of the relationship, and you you go into the relationship with open eyes and understanding of like who this person is. And if this person is a good person, and if there's this person is somebody that you could trust with your life, right, then women should submit to their man.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:29

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:30

Because that man is the type of person that you can submit to and you can trust and you can count on. That makes sense. Versus if somebody is abusive and you know all has these like negative traits, I think in the very beginning you should choose not to submit to this person.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:45

Of course, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:46

I mean, I I would argue that you shouldn't even be in this relationship to begin with. But obviously, people make emotional decisions. So that's really what the explanation or the sense of submission is. And and it just sounds like you've never really experienced that where you could trust the man, where you could really truly let go of um your whether it's insecurities or or a feeling of nervousness of like, hey, where I'm gonna go and what's gonna happen. Because when you are with that person, then there is nothing for you to be afraid of.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:22

Nothing else. Yeah, nothing else matters. Yeah, no, I think I think you're right. I think I genuinely and I don't think that I've had enough like solid relationships. Well, no, I have, but I think my ex situation has taught me a lot and I've come like super far with it, but I think also like I haven't been with a man who has like allowed me to submit to him essentially. I mean, I think you're right.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:00

Yeah.

Open Relationships And Possessiveness

SPEAKER_05 1:27:01

Final question. Um Do you think open relationships can work?

SPEAKER_10 1:27:16

I feel like I can't fully like understand what it's like because I I don't think that I would ever be in an open relationship.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:26

Why is that?

SPEAKER_10 1:27:28

Because I think that if I'm in a relationship with someone, I think to a certain extent I would get like jealous.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:42

In the very beginning, you said you don't really get jealous.

SPEAKER_10 1:27:45

I don't, but I think that if I was in a situation where like if I I just don't think that I could be in an open relationship because like that's my person. Like that's a possessive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:57

Uh huh. So become possessive to a point where you just don't know. them to be like.

SPEAKER_10 1:28:00

Like I'm like, I just don't think that if I was in love with someone or I was even like in a relationship with someone like picturing them like being with someone else. I'm like that doesn't really I don't know. It just doesn't it doesn't make sense for me. But I could understand why other people want to explore that. And I think that it can work for some people depending on their you know their relationship with each other, their personality, so many different things, you know, qualities and everything. Like I think that it could I understand that it could work. I just don't think it would work for people. It doesn't won't work for you. It doesn't work for me. But but I I could understand like why pe people are in open open relationships.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:54

But do you have a crazy side or no?

SPEAKER_10 1:28:58

Um like I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:06

Okay. When I asked that question like if somebody asked me that question right I would be like no I don't it's just a very like quick you know what I mean like I don't have to think about it.

SPEAKER_10 1:29:16

If you don't have a crazy side you'd be like oh yeah no definitely not yeah I think that not in relationships but I can be a little I mean neurotic at times I can be a little crazy I can be a little bit like maybe I yeah maybe I can get a little crazy in s in certain situations it it would have to depend on the situation.

Cheating Lines And Revenge Fantasies

SPEAKER_05 1:29:41

What situation are you thinking of?

SPEAKER_10 1:29:43

Like I'm thinking of like if someone cheated on me I would I would I would probably destroy a lot of things like I would destroy I would just release a bunch of shit on social media like I would I would be like oh I'm ruining this person's life like bye like I just why why would you ever disrespect me like that like I'm I'm gonna go to make your own karma. I'm gonna go to like I I'm gonna go to other lengths that probably I wouldn't do like I don't I'm not crazy day to day crazy in the sense I I can be like destructive and careless and like things that I do when I'm like but if somebody cheated on you you ruined their oh yeah I would yeah I just would I just would be like oh so you just think that you can just do that that's crazy that's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:48

First of all like what I I appreciate you being being honest with that statement and and giving us a viral clip.

SPEAKER_10 1:30:56

But also do you not think that you like there's no level of there's no part of you that would be like well like understanding allowing yeah forgiveness I think I I think I could I think it again it would depend on like I think that I would seek to understand depending if on if the person like if the person was very like apologetic and like oh it didn't mean and like wants to explain because they that that shows me that they care about me truly and they love me and that they want to explain it then I would I would I would listen to them I would ask questions and I would listen to like what they have to say what thought process I would be like just tell me everything just sit me down tell me everything no matter what it is how deep it gets into details please tell me because like I just want to understand like what was your thought process in this if it was a situation where they were avoidant and like didn't want to talk about it and were just like like you're tripping or like lying about it but I gaslighting you.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:12

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:14

Then I'd be like okay so I'm gonna destroy you like goodbye. See you later. It's a very strong I really love that word. I don't know why I think I just it's it is a strong word. It's a very visceral reaction it is destroying.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:31

Okay so let's let's let's uh let's come up with a couple of scenarios here okay so first of all before we're gonna get the heart out right now but you guys okay okay yeah first of all the um the one question that so so let's let's clear um let's let's clear clear up what cheating is to begin with okay so what do you consider cheating um that's hard because I feel like obviously like in the grand scheme of things like I want to say that like cheating is like doing something physical however like I cheating yes cheating feels as if it's something physical with someone however there's like there's loopholes like if if you're texting a girl but you've never you've never met her in person you've never like done anything physical with her essentially but you're like quote I don't know quote unquote like sexting or just like flirting or just like I I don't know whatever.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:41

I don't care about like talking like just having normal conversations this is my girlfriend whatever girlfriend um so I like I don't know I wish there was another word for like something like that because I don't I think that cheating is a strong word and like if someone says like oh my boyfriend cheated on me like automatically in my head I think oh like physical act yeah exactly yeah but some people consider it like I don't I don't consider it as like I think it's something that you can talk through. Sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:21

Okay so let's say your boyfriend went and is at a bar okay and um there's a girl at the bar. Okay. And he's like with his boys whatever. Okay. And he goes up to her and says um oh hey how's your night going you're very pretty okay see that's not cheating but that's like inappropriate.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:42

Yeah okay not cheating it's like forgivable act yeah you're going out of your way to go up to this girl at a bar okay so flirting unacceptable I think so like I just think like unless you're in an open relationship and like but not cheating. No not cheating.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:00

I don't think that that yeah like if someone said oh I saw your your boyfriend cheating on you at the bar he was like chatting with this other girl I would be like okay what were they saying what else like what what what else happened oh well that was it okay that's yeah that's not cheating like now let's say um I'm assuming presumably that if they kissed that would be cheating yeah okay okay yeah like cheating yeah on the lighter side it's not as intense but like it's still I would say that's the that's yeah now let's say that they go um now now let's say he is talking to some some girl and says hey I'm gonna go grab lunch with this girl that I'm friends with okay and now he is not saying anything he is he's he's genuinely fr friends with her however she really likes him right and she's like oh my god you're so hot I wish you were single all these things and I've I'm aware of all this you're not aware of anything oh right right he doesn't tell you okay right he just says hey I'm gonna go like hang out with my with my friends co-worker whatever um and so they go and they're like grabbing lunch and you know she's like yeah like you know are you ever gonna be single like can we ever be together blah blah blah and do you think that that is um and again that's probably inappropriate but not cheating right yeah yeah I mean like is he coming home after and being like telling me the situation or is this just like hypothetically like this is a hypothetical situation where he's not being truthful and upfront about the dynamic right I feel like it's yeah I think again it's not considered cheating it would also depend on like is this girl is this a girl like he's been friends with for a while or is this just like just some random girl that he just started being friends with like that that's doesn't make a difference yeah it does why is that I feel like like why are you friends with a girl randomly like after okay but like if I don't know like if in my perspective I don't know that's hard because I feel like I want to say like okay if if my boyfriend was friends with this girl for forever I'm gonna grab lunch with so and so we're gonna like catch up cool love that tell her I said hey which I'm I'm I would be like I am very much like that like if a if my boyfriend has girlfriends I'm very much like oh yeah like you have guy friends.

SPEAKER_10 1:37:53

Let's yeah but like in my perspective like I'm like I can be friends with guys but I know that other people like guys are like oh you're never friends with the guy like the guy always wants you. You don't think that's true.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:08

No like you think that the guys you're friends with don't want you I mean maybe they've thought about it before. Maybe they they still think about it. Right. There's not a single there's not a single guy you could say that you're friends with currently that you would call at this very moment and say hey let's go have sex and they'll say no not a single one guaranteed okay yeah right that's okay that that puts it in into perspective a little bit more I think there might be few. You're saying that there is a few there might be a few that would say like what are you talking about no you think that there is one yeah pick one call him right now oh no okay well there's one that's married so he would not I just know that okay sure but that's different yeah he's not single but even then I mean yeah he might not cheat on his wife I suppose but yeah that's they've they have a kid yeah that's a different situation okay let me think about another one maybe not you do not have a single guy friend but like why does that because like for me like we're just like I I hang out with them all the time and like it's just like we're just you hang out with them all the time but that doesn't mean that they're not hoping for something to change.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:26

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:28

Right okay they're hoping that one day you would see their value or drunk enough to be like flirting back and be like oh wow okay this is gonna go somewhere like I mean it's it's just biology that's not yeah no a hundred percent so yeah I guess back to like the I mean but but but but I wouldn't say it's cheating. Okay. I want to get to the destruction part right I I want to get to a part where you're destroying everything.

SPEAKER_09 1:39:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:57

So you okay is there a fr do you have girl best friends yeah a lot okay a lot of them I mean like a one two three okay sure whatever so seven okay and let's say one of them um is like super drunk yeah okay and then flirting with your with your boyfriend and your boyfriend is also very drunk okay and they're just they sleep together oh I would destroy both of them one thousand percent so so okay but but if they but if your boyfriend came and was like baby I'm so sorry I was I was so wasted and I just like didn't eat I thought it was you like is there forgiveness first of all you would know it was me like there is no but he's like wasted like there's just no way I would be like no that's just not keep in mind I don't really know anything about like being wasted I've never had alcohol so I have no idea how people feel when they're drunk okay but I've heard that when people blackout they don't know what the fuck is going on.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:04

Right. Yeah but like I feel like to a certain like yes you can have blackout moments but like you wouldn't like I just don't think that that's I don't know it's it's hard to say because like I want to say like you know you have moments where you blackout and it's you don't remember anything. So like there's no you know yeah he doesn't like he doesn't remember he's like what are you even talking about like I don't know but then I'm like no way you guys are both on the same level to be both blackout like it's hard like I don't I don't blackout very often like I also I feel like I've learned how to better handle my alcohol so like know when to stop and not to just keep drinking and then it hits me at once. Um but like when I do like it just it doesn't happen very often so like to be on the same exact level let's take out the the girl best friend out of the equation and it's just same some random girl and he's blacked out okay that would be a little bit different.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:16

Okay because there's a level of forgiveness at that point there is there is like I would I think that if he came to me and he was like I'm so sorry like you know this this and this happened like begging on his knees I'd be like okay like we can have conversation but like you know but if it happens again then you destroy his life maybe I'm like okay yeah if it gets if it gets to the point I mean if it happens twice I'm like bro you gotta change something you're clearly doing something wrong like you need to you gotta you gotta play your you gotta do what like change something right if that's happening twice that's insane right it especially if I'm coming to you being like happens it happens again like you're you're done but if it's with a girl best friend oh they're both destroyed oh that's just never happening that would just would never happen my my friends also know not to do that I also just have good friends yes of course of course if you have decent friends then obviously nothing like that would ever happen very interesting I'm like I mean how who wouldn't destroy like I wouldn't I would never destroy I my ex did a lot of shit to me yeah and this is a different ex from the one that I mentioned to you um and I was I was always there for her I helped her out even after we broke up and you know she just she did all types of shit and it's just I think when you're morally a good person and ethically or of sound mind I it's just yeah and I'm not saying you're not no no no yeah but that I mean that makes sense like what does it do for you there's a level of capability right of um uh of of subjecting somebody to pain that I just don't think I'm capable of and and that doesn't go for like like women right like I don't I don't I wouldn't do that to somebody that I ever loved right I would do that to somebody that I either don't know that you know did something wrong to me right like like if somebody hurt my significant other right right I would I would destroy them.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:30

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:31

But I just don't think I'm capable of hurting somebody that I cared about at one point or even care about.

SPEAKER_10 1:44:38

And like I don't think that I've ever like I I say that I would destroy them but I think like also like I don't I don't know like in my mind I'm like I'm so when push comes to shove you don't think it would actually happen. I don't yeah like I'd like to think like even like I had a certain like I had I've had I had a recent falling out with one of my friends and like we don't we don't speak anymore and I want to so bad like be so angry and like text her like some crazy message and be like just go go off but I won't because I like I've I've responded to everything she said to me in a very like mature way because I don't for me I think it's just I don't I genuinely I haven't been in a situation like that so I wouldn't know but like I think that yeah when push when push comes to shove I think that I would probably you know maybe I would probably be a little bit angry but like I don't think that I would necessarily go to the lengths of like blasting them on everything. What happened

Friend Fallout After A Traumatic Night

SPEAKER_10 1:45:59

with your friend um it's like a crazy situation actually she's like one of my best friends. She was like we yeah she was right um she like we hung out like every day we used to work together um she we went out on New Year's and I can't actually speak on the situation because there was like a whole police report filed on it and everything. Basically someone someone like literally bit her okay which like sounds crazy and she was she was fine after that like she we it was before midnight before we like went out to the club and like whatever and we were all like you know drinking and stuff and she was fine after that I'm very like attentive to people's feelings.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:01

I also don't bring Brand somebody bit her and then what and then what that has anything to do with you right so nothing.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:11

Okay. So I brought her out with my other group of friends she was the and I don't like to mix my friend groups I never do rarely except for occasionally when it's my birthday and like I want to do a big group thing but normally I do separate birthday things because but in this situation you mix people up. Yes and it was almost like and she's a very like she's it felt more of like a relationship type friend. She was very you guys are very attached and just do everything to very needy emotional and I all my friends are not like that except for her. And she was you know she was fine after that I didn't want to have to like worry about her but I was also like are you okay like you know checking in on her another reason why I don't like to mix my friend groups so she feels like you neglected her at the time after the house she feels like I didn't like I don't know punch the person or something or like whatever but from my perspective she was like fine after that.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:27

Okay so somebody bit her and then she felt like that you didn't stand up for her and like go fight for her.

SPEAKER_10 1:48:34

I guess but she didn't ever say anything to me so I don't know she didn't ever explain like how she was feeling to me at the time you mean no still like ever to the same why are you assuming this sent me a text that basically said I'm rethinking our friendship reas like rethinking our friendship I don't think we have the same priorities kind of thing and I don't want to keep putting myself in situations where I end up hurt uh which for me I was very caught off guard with because I she'd never brought if people bring things up to me I will let's have a conversation let's you know let's talk it out whatever did you ask her why why what why she's feeling this like why she yeah no I said I said well I responded I said okay wow like I wasn't really expecting this I understand you know what you're saying but I also would love to you know talk about it because I don't really understand what you mean by this but I want to give you your space she's nothing oh she never replied okay got it and then I I mean the most re recent I've talked to her well then I got a call from A detective, and then that was a whole thing because I was there, whatever. Um, I never knew it was also it's on my birthday week. Everyone knows my birthday is like the most important thing ever.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:12

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_10 1:50:12

Um, I just felt like for me, and like I don't know because I haven't been in that situation, but like for me, I would I would give my friends a I would give my friend a heads up. Hey, I like just from my perspective, I don't think that I did anything. Yeah, like maybe she did feel like neglected in the at the time, and maybe she did feel like I wasn't being attentive enough to her at the time.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:42

I mean, I'm assuming based upon the information you've given that she went through something that she feels was traumatic and and it sounds like from what you said about your birthday that she thinks that you made that the aftermath of that situation about you versus attending to her traumatic Right.

SPEAKER_10 1:51:16

But I didn't say anything about my birthday.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:18

Oh.

SPEAKER_10 1:51:19

I didn't ever say anything.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 1:51:21

Anything about my birthday.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:23

The only time I said why'd you say everybody knows my birthday is like the biggest thing?

SPEAKER_10 1:51:28

How's that relevant? Well, that's true. That that is true. I just meant like the way that it like it landed on my birthday week when but no, actually, you do have a point. I I didn't say anything to her about my birthday. So I guess like, yeah, it just it just ended up landing on the week of my birthday that the t detective was calling me and like it just landed that way, and like she had to take care of what she had to take care of because it was a traumatic event for her. So yeah, I mean, I guess it that makes sense. But yeah, I d I didn't say I didn't say anything to her about my birthday.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:10

Yeah, I was just kind of like she just feels like you weren't there for her, probably. Probably based upon what you're saying.

SPEAKER_10 1:52:16

Yeah, I guess so. I mean Yeah, I don't know. It feels yeah, I don't know. I'm very indifferent about it. I've had I feel like I've been a very good friend to her.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:34

And you're indifferent because you feel betrayed, or you're indifferent because it's a defensive mechanism in order not to care about somebody you're caring about.

SPEAKER_10 1:52:48

Yeah, I think like I, you know, I I I I care about her a lot. And like I I think I'm more indifferent because I like I'm like, oh, like that just you know, through away our entire friendship for something that you won't even explain to me how you feel. And like I get it, like some people need time to like you know breathe for a second. And I and I told her that. I said, like, you know, I want to give you your space when you're ready to talk. If you are ever ready to talk, then like let's talk. Like, I wanna have a convers. I like to be, I like to understand what people are thinking and how they were thinking in that moment. I'm not gonna just but I want people to explain themselves. Like, I think that I deserve some sort of explanation, but if that's how she wants it to be, then that's what it is, and like I'm just gonna have to accept that. So yeah. I don't know if that makes sense. Sounds reasonable no, it sounds reasonable. Yeah, yeah. It's just we'll see where we'll see where where it ends up, but keep me posted. I will. I'll have to.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:09

Thanks for coming

Final Thoughts And Goodbye

SPEAKER_05 1:54:10

on the show. Yeah, appreciate your honesty and openness. You did great.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:16

Thank you. It was it was so great being here, and I thank you guys for just engaging and asking me the hard questions. Because I love the hard questions. I loved it. I had a great time. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:29

Of course. Thanks for watching. We'll see you later.