Modern Dating Rewards Attention Not Effort Ft. Fiona & Christy - Ep.184

Special thanks to Fiona & Christy for being a part of this episode of Unattainable Podcast Show 

We get brutally honest about why dating in LA and on college campuses can feel shallow, confusing, and low effort, then test what “standards” actually mean when real tradeoffs show up. With guests Fiona and Christy, we argue about ambition, money, obsession, monogamy, and whether you can build a healthy relationship on potential. 
• USC dating culture and why it can feel misaligned with personal values 
• Effort on dates, chivalry expectations, and what planning signals 
• Big-city dating dynamics in LA and Vegas and the “too many options” problem 
• Financial security, “provider” promises, and how control can hide inside romance 
• Love bombing, dominance, insecurity, and why obsession feels addictive 
• The HelloFresh analogy for dating potential versus dating reality 
• Sugar dating, large age gaps, and the risks of being molded by a partner 
• Faith-based standards, the role of past choices, and what people will realistically accept 
• First-date preferences, love languages, and small acts that build trust 
• Boundaries around phones, porn, monogamy, body count, and experience

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Transcript

Cold Open On Dating Standards

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Someone at USC published an article that was like, USC is not the place for dating. If you want to date, do not come to USC. I like someone who noticed the little things and I think someone who is like ambitious. There's a difference between letting your body rest and just having no motivation and no ambition at all.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Dishivalry is is dead in the younger generations. And Vegas is kind of the same dating scene as LA. It was rated as the worst city for singles. Every single guy I've tried dating has been in the middle of a midlife crisis. I wouldn't marry someone unless I was financially secure. If a man was like running out of money and had health issues and other issues, I think he would be focusing on himself. So his teeth were like falling out. So it's causing his nervous system so much stress. He just thinks that porn is demonic and bad.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Oftentimes we see like the potential in people.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

I think that he was just grooming me to be like his perfect ideal woman.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

I love gift gifting.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Like I gift gifts a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

I wouldn't want a virgin guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

I want a man of God. I want somebody that's like the craziest thing I've ever heard.

Meet The Hosts And Guests

SPEAKER_04 1:17

Welcome to Unattainable. Glad to have you with us. I'm your host, Zach Evans, here with our co-host, Mohammed Moley. Today we got a special guest, a couple special guests on the show. Why don't you guys go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience, name what you do, and your star sign. And uh we'll start with you, Fiona.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Hi, I'm Fiona Frost. I am an adult performer and I'm a Scorpio.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Scorpio, interesting. And what about you, Christy?

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Hi, my name is Christy. I'm currently a freshman at USC and I'm a Capricorn.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

Interesting. Capricorns are uh fun, but uh we are very fun. Why did you laugh about this? In what sense? Bad for my mental health, yeah. I'm pretty sure my therapist said I'm not supposed to talk to Capricorns actually anything.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Not you, just all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

No, offense taken.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Scorpios, Scorpios tend to be my best friends, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Uh what's your sign?

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Uh I'm the best one proven by science, numerous studies.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Oh, are you a Leo?

SPEAKER_04 2:19

I identify as a Leo. I'm a Pisces, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Oh, Pisces, yeah. Okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

Wait, in what way?

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Um, the Scorpios are your best friend. I love Pisces.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

Why'd you say Leo?

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Um, just the confidence that he came out. Yeah. I got copyright. I can tell. I can tell. It's like the best one.

SPEAKER_04 2:38

Interesting, interesting. Okay, so let me ask

Why USC Feels Undateable

SPEAKER_04 2:40

you this. I think you're gonna have a very interesting opinion being a Capricorn. Yeah. Um, so dating in LA is considered one of the hardest places to date. Um, there's narcissists, there's fake people, sociopaths, Capricorns, you know, it's like very difficult to date. What has your guys' experience been dating in LA versus anywhere else or just in general? And we'll start with you.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Actually, the other day, um, someone at USC published an article that was like, USC is not the place for dating. If you want to date, do not come see USC. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:11

Do you agree with that uh sentiment?

SPEAKER_02 3:14

I feel like yes. Not no hate on the school, but everyone I've met so far does not align with me personally.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

With your values.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

With my values.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

Okay, which are what?

SPEAKER_02 3:28

I think I prioritize because I got out of a relationship halfway through the first semester of school. Guys do not date going into college.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

We made the same mistake, but yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Yeah, and I feel like from that I kind of became more mature in a sense, and I think because I'm a freshman, all the freshman guys are still in that immature phase. So as of now, I don't think dating in LA is very good for me.

SPEAKER_08 3:59

You didn't explain a set of values though.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

My values. I I like someone who noticed a little things, and I think someone who is like ambitious. I always tell people there's a difference between letting your body rest and just having no motivation and no ambition at all. And I feel like a lot of people right now they're like they have this mindset of just like I agree with YOLO, I agree with like just going with the flow and like having fun, but I think it's also very important to have like a sense of direction of where you want to go. And I feel like right now I haven't met guys that think that way.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

I mean, I feel sorry for y'all's generation. Y'all are you're the guys are cooked in your like like growing up for me, because I had an old school, very old school father, so it's like if you don't have something that you're working on, something you're doing, he's like, Go like like my dad didn't buy me video games. He's like, go play outside, go like work on something. But I feel like nowadays everybody gets participation trophies. Oh, little Gen Z, you're good just the way you are. You don't have to work on yourself. Mental health, mental health, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Yeah, like yes, and also the way I feel like the way they treat girls are just not it for me. In the way treat girls, the like the way guys treat guys in my generation, not not just USC, like guys, like Gen Z guys in general. Like, I'm not saying guys have to pay for everything, like obviously not, but I think it's definitely has been yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

No, I disagree with you. I think guys should pay for dates, I should say, not everything.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yeah, like and also I think people lost a sense of actually putting effort into planning dates. I feel like girls, we still like take time to dress up, pick the outfit, and actually put effort into it. But guys, most guys lost a sense of like planning dates. Like, I feel like not to overgeneralize, but like a lot of guys in university have resorted to like, oh, let's just like hang out at our dorms, I just hang out in the room, let's just watch a movie on our laptop, and it's like so so here's the problem.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

So you're right, that is happening, but it's also both sides' fault. Yes, because like, okay, like if I take a girl on a date, I'm happy to plan everything, pick them up, open the car door, pay for them everything, whatever. Like, I'm happy to do that if I have a girl that I think is gonna fill the feminine role and be like sweet and caring and everything else, and not have an attitude of I'm a boss bitch, I do what I want.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Yes, I do think it comes from both sides.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

I think our generation, we're all just kind of not you, just all the rest of them, you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 6:53

What's the oldest that you've dated?

SPEAKER_02 6:55

The oldest I have dated. Um not dated necessarily, but I guess in the some sort of relationship was when I was 17 and he was a junior in college.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Okay. So he was what? Okay.

SPEAKER_08 7:22

And then ever since you've okay, so how many relationships have you had? Is that the only one?

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Um the last one two, I guess.

SPEAKER_08 7:33

What would we consider a relationship? How long were these two?

SPEAKER_02 7:36

I would say the first one didn't count because it wasn't exactly like a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. But the second one, like the one that I ended last year.

SPEAKER_08 7:45

How long was that?

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Not long at all. I think two months.

SPEAKER_08 7:49

Okay. I mean, I I personally wouldn't consider that a relationship either, but I'm assuming at some point you guys like decided to be exclusive and then two weeks later it was over.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Um, it was long distance. So not a relationship. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 8:06

Alright, so and then since then, since you broke up, um you've been just dating guys.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

No, I haven't been I've been talking to guys, but I haven't dated.

SPEAKER_08 8:18

Okay, so this notion that these guys are unable to organize dates comes from just them telling you. Like a bunch of guys just telling you that, hey, come to the dorm and like hang out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

I've been on I've been on dates after that, like proper date. Didn't work out, but I would say the majority was just like very casual, very low at first.

SPEAKER_08 8:43

Sure. Well, I think the flaw in this whole um article that you brought up is that first of all, nobody goes to USC to date. That is true. So like I don't like you don't see a 27-year-old man who doesn't go to college and like works, just like show up at USC and be like, hey, let me pick out these girls and like go on dates with them, which you know, I mean, I guess there wouldn't be anything wrong if somebody did that, but um ultimately speaking, the the this this whole theory that you know you shouldn't date people at school is probably because majorly people who are in school are not mature enough yet, right? Especially when you're younger, like within the the range of like 18 to 24 when you're trying to get your associate degree and your bachelor's or whatever, um you're you're still kind of just not sure of your goals. Right. And and so the assumption is that most of the guys that you're kind of exposed to that you might see as um not having ambitions or you know not knowing what they're gonna do is just because they're young. Yes.

Big-City Dating And Endless Options

SPEAKER_08 10:00

Right. If you win and you date at somebody who's 27, 28, so on and so forth, you know, above 30 majority of the time. Well, it was debatable in LA, I suppose, but they should, but they should.

SPEAKER_05 10:14

The argument would be that they should know, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:16

I I dated guys between the age of 28 and 56, and I don't think that 56 is old. Okay, so I think that chivalry is is dead in the younger generations for sure, but I do think that it carries on into the older generations too. Especially I live in Vegas, and and Vegas is kind of the same dating scene as LA. It was rated as the worst city for singles in the US. Congrats. Yeah, I know. And I think that every single guy I've tried dating has been in the middle of a midlife crisis. So even if they did have their shit figured out at one point, you know, they kind of fall apart when they at least when they come to Vegas.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

And where do you usually meet these guys?

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Uh just like random places. I'm not on the Yeah, I'm not in the dating apps at all.

SPEAKER_08 11:14

So I think the problem is that these big cities that get the these negative stigmas, right? Like if you walked into a you know a car dealership and there was like a hundred different types of cars that are luxury and you know look amazing, typically people would want to test drive, you know, all the cars. Whereas if you walked into a car dealership that has like three types of cars, right? Then the options are limited, and you're just like, okay, well, I'm just gonna get this car and you know, I'll be done with it. So so I just I I I think that you know, a place like Vegas and a place like New York, a place like LA, because there are so many different options that people are tend to have a harder time to settle down.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

I definitely agree with that because I'm from the Midwest and most of my friends back home are like settling down, having kids, getting married.

SPEAKER_08 12:18

Yeah, I mean it's just the the population's smaller, you go to the same bars and there's like the same 15 guys, and it's like, okay, like I gotta pick one out of the 15.

SPEAKER_04 12:27

Yeah, but I don't think that's the reason. I think the reason is because I'm from Wisconsin, so similar vibes, and in these small towns, there's a culture of it's not you get married because you find your soulmate, your true love, or something like this. It's more like you get married because it's just the next thing you're supposed to do. Yeah, exactly. And in a lot of these cultures, people aren't very like independent, self-thinking. Like like half my friends in Wisconsin have never been outside Wisconsin. Yeah, they just live in, you know, they work 40 years at the dirt factory just like their dad, and then they bake a casserole and then they die. And that's just their life. That's like, you know, maybe if they're really ambitious, like one time they went to Illinois to like, you know, go to the Chicago or something. And and it's crazy to me how many people just marry whoever they were dating when they graduated college. Yeah, whoever's gonna be like, whoever they're dating at the time, it's like, well, I guess like I'm done with college, I have a job, I guess it's time to get married now. Yeah, and I don't know. I I I don't think it's a great way to choose your partner, and as toxic as LA is, um, I don't I'm not jealous of the small town dating scene, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

So yeah, I think people are definitely more interesting in big cities, they just have lived a lot more life.

SPEAKER_08 13:45

If if a guy came tomorrow and was very secure and had all the criteria that you were looking for and was like, marry me, would you say yes?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Um interesting. Like if my dream guy came into the picture?

SPEAKER_08 14:00

I mean, sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

I mean, yeah. I was like, what's with the hesitation? Uh I think the hesitation is because I I feel like I already met my dream guy, but and he wanted to marry me, but like life separated us. Life separated you or you separated you? So it's kind of like amongst other things.

SPEAKER_04 14:25

Can't he can't they come back if you marry him or no?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Yeah, but I just I wouldn't marry someone unless I was financially secure by them. He's just

Money, Marriage, And Obsession

SPEAKER_01 14:35

making all these excuses.

SPEAKER_06 14:37

But this is what the reality is.

SPEAKER_08 14:39

Like, I I think a lot of times people pretend that if the right guy came and they found their dream person, that they would just jump to the opportunity and marry the person right away. And and but nine out of ten times they just won't. And and it's because people like to, and and I don't I don't mean this, you know, to come at you, but but people like to be the victim. People like to be the one that, like, oh, look at this guy, like, fuck me over, or like, look at this guy, did this to me, or you know, guys too. You know, women suck, or like women did this, or whatever. And and and I just think you have to be willing to make certain sacrifices, and most people just aren't, you know, because you also like the fact that you get attention from other guys, and chances are that if you went to a monogamous relationship and married someone, that means that you just can't do a lot of the things that currently you would be doing.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yeah, yeah, I definitely am okay with like giving up a lot of things. Like in my last relationship, I left the adult industry completely, deleted all my social media, stopped talking to like all my guy friends because he said that he was able to support me financially. And that was a lie. So you know, things just didn't work out after that. But what do you mean that was a lie? What happened? I think that he just wanted to I think he wanted to be with me so badly that he spent all of his money on me and bought me a car and spent 50 grand on my house and renovations, and he just ran out of money, and then it was just very irresponsible, and I think it's one of the most attracti uh unattractive traits that a man can have. Because if you asked me to quit my job and my livelihood, like you should be ready to back it up and provide.

SPEAKER_07 16:34

So why do you think he lied?

SPEAKER_01 16:37

I think he's just madly in love with me, and he was afraid of losing me. Despite all of the lengths that I went through. But I'm confused.

SPEAKER_08 16:45

W you would have seen his financial situation when you when you how long were you guys together?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

A year before I made the decision to stop like quit my job.

SPEAKER_08 16:58

Okay, so you guys were together for a year and then you quit everything. No one has financial situation for the past year of your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

I I actually didn't. I knew we broke up at one point. I told him, like, get your life together. He got a giant sum of money, and then he bought the car and was doing renovations on my house and said, There's no budget, you could get whatever you want. And so I thought he was bawling. I'm like, okay, like you sold one of your buildings, you have money. Basically, I was like, okay, like I was like, how much money do you have? What's the budget? Because, like, all respect your budget, like, and he's like, There's no budget, so I just thought that I was in a a good I thought we were in a good position, but yeah, then three days before my OF was gonna be like permanently deleted forever, he was like, Hey, actually, I'm running out of money, so don't delete your OF. And I'm like, you know, he's like, actually, can you support me, please? Yeah, I was at one point, uh like earlier in the year, but yeah, I think relationships are about compromise, but if you're lying, then there's no room for compromise.

SPEAKER_08 18:08

So then how long were you in that relationship past you quitting everything?

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Um, it lasted like three months. It lasted three months after that, and then he ran out of money.

SPEAKER_08 18:22

And he told you that he ran out of money.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 18:24

Uh-huh. And then your response was, okay, so I'm out.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

No, I said I was just like, how could like, are you kidding me? Because I just had sold my Twitter and my Instagram the week prior and and everything. And I had we'd had a million conversations about finances at this point, so I was just like really disappointed. And then he had health issues, so I had to drive him over the border of Mexico because he had overstayed his visa here for me, and he had to get his house fixed in Mexico, and then he flew to Europe, had a court case in Europe, so he couldn't renew his passport and come back to the US. So now he's stuck there.

SPEAKER_08 19:10

Oh, this is the guy who is the love of your life.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 19:15

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

I think if he had his life figured out, he is my dream man. And yeah.

SPEAKER_08 19:22

I think every man will have like things makes no sense. Like, like, if if this guy did this and this and this and this, he would be my dream person. But that's a completely different person.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Well, no, because 20 more rooms, it would be much better.

SPEAKER_07 19:39

Like, we're I feel like that guy says if my grandmother had uh wheels, she'd be a bike. Like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 19:46

I think if if he has a couple of years to just figure shit out, if he could figure it out, then we could be together. But you know, I don't think that's gonna happen. So unfortunately, every man in the future is gonna have um a hard time living up to those standards.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

It doesn't sound like the bar is that high. It sounds like the bar might be close to the ground.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

I mean, if somebody like if somebody does literally everything for you and you never have to lift a finger and they treat you like a princess and literally give their last dollar to you, I think that shows a lot about them and their character. And yeah, I don't think many men are willing to do that these days. I think if a man was like running out of money and had health issues and other issues, I think he would be focusing on himself and I mean it's irresponsible, but at the same time, like I I loved being loved that much, if that makes sense. Like I don't think many men yearn like that these days.

SPEAKER_08 20:52

It's it's it sounds like you like the obsession.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yes, and the personality, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 20:59

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 21:01

Okay. Oh my god. Um it's it's but that's those are that's such a it just doesn't last.

SPEAKER_08 21:14

Like I it I understand that somebody was obsessed with you and you like that about that relationship. But it's it's there's so much more to a long-term relationship. See, I mean a good example of it is what happened, right? He ran out of money and then you just gave up and you're like, I'm out. Because there's just like so many other criteria in a relationship that if you really wanted to be with this person, right, there are sacrifices that you would make. But but and it's just relationships aren't one way. It's not like he okay, he's gonna be obsessed with you, he's gonna pay for everything, he's gonna take care of you, he's gonna do this, this, then that. And then what are you doing? Nothing?

SPEAKER_01 21:56

No.

SPEAKER_08 21:57

What I mean, what happens when shit goes south? Which it Did and then you're just done. You just walk away.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah, but I also think that it it was uh a very complicated situation on so many levels that I can't even begin to get into in one podcast episode.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

No, I agree with her. I think people are way too obsessed with this idea of love as this like grand emotional feeling that you feel, and oh, I'm so in love, blah blah blah. Like, ask any old person. They all say all that shit is gonna go away, the honeymoon phase will end, and then at some point, like you need somebody who you're compatible with on not just a personality level, but also like a lifestyle level. Like, yeah, like you'd want to get married to somebody who like has this shit together, and like you know when you have a kid, you're not gonna like run out of money and then your kid has eat bugs or something, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, like don't you want to be like responsible? Yeah, like I think that's it's it's just like the when people say like in high school, oh what do you want to do for your career? And they, oh, what are you passionate about? And it's like, oh, I'm passionate about like painting. It's like cool. Are you passionate enough about painting that you're willing to be broke the rest of your life and be a painter? Probably not for most people. So it's like if you're super in love with somebody, cool, but like, are you that in love that like if he's super irresponsible, like your kids are gonna have to starve? Like, yeah, maybe not not that much, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

I even flew to Bulgaria over New Year's because I was like trying to be there for him and trying to see if like it could work. I was trying to help him get back on up on his feet and have some sort of plan, but I just I don't think it's just I don't know. It's very complicated, it's very difficult. Relationships are difficult.

SPEAKER_08 23:47

Do you do you like him?

SPEAKER_01 23:50

I love him, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 23:51

You love him. Do you love him? But do you like him?

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Yes, I like him. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_08 23:57

But do uh do you love and like him because of how he makes you feel?

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Um I like him because of all the ways that he's helped me grow as a person. Um he's just I can't even begin to name the ways in which he's helped me grow. And yeah, I just I think we never really went out on dates. We didn't really travel, we didn't really do anything except for sit there and talk to each other all day, every day. Like the entire year. Like we literally just laid in bed and sat around and cooked together and talked like all day every day. That's why he lost all his money.

SPEAKER_04 24:40

He's just laying in bed all day with you.

SPEAKER_08 24:45

And when you guys are together, you just don't work.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Well, actually, I built him an office in my old house because I was trying to motivate him and help him like start his business that he had an idea for. But yeah, uh I think if someone is having health issues on the level that he was, it's just difficult to do anything, to be honest. Like where his mouth hinged, he had to like work to hold it together because it was falling, and he has a full set of veneers, and then he only had temporary teeth at the time because he couldn't leave the country because he couldn't come back to go fix them, and he couldn't afford to fix them in the US. So his teeth were like falling out. So it was causing his nervous system so much stress that he wasn't able to actually be the person that he wanted to be that he was trying to be.

SPEAKER_08 25:31

And so why did he make you quit your job?

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Uh

When Control Looks Like Dominance

SPEAKER_01 25:38

he just thinks that porn is demonic and and bad. And the industry is just dark, and yeah, being promiscuous is bad. And honestly, I agree with him on some level now after so long of being together.

SPEAKER_08 25:55

You agree with him, but then you do you uh do you ever resolve the contradictions in your mind?

SPEAKER_01 26:05

This year has been a year. Um it's it's a difficult time right now, to be honest.

SPEAKER_07 26:13

To be in your head.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

To be in my head, yeah. I'm very like contradictory right now.

SPEAKER_08 26:18

Like what do I do? Yeah. Uh-huh. Interesting. Okay. Uh, and how old are you again?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Twenty-five.

SPEAKER_08 26:25

Twenty-five. How many relationships have you been in?

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Um, three long-term ones.

SPEAKER_08 26:31

Three, okay. And and so this is your last relationship. You had and uh you had two other relationships before that?

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah, two years each.

SPEAKER_08 26:38

How were those?

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Um, one of them was just like a college relationship, and we were together during COVID, and he wanted kids, and he didn't want to travel, and I didn't want kids, and all I wanted to do was travel, so we ended up breaking up. And then the second one was a guy in the industry. And um that one was toxic and crazy and wild, and it didn't last.

SPEAKER_08 27:07

What's the what's the craziest thing um an ex has ever done to try to win you back?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Um, so one guy when I was moving into my new house, there was nothing in it, and I walked in and there was a trail of rose petals in the empty house and roses and a stuffed animal and a letter sitting on the counter. So the guy had broken into my house and left this stuff there, and he was like, The door was unlocked, it was a sign, and I called him and I was like, You can't just break into someone's house just because the door was open, like, I don't want to talk to you. And he's like, Well, I have the rest of your stuff here at your old house. Should I bring it over? And I'm like, Why at my old house? Like, I don't want to see you, yeah. And I'm like, Leave. I don't want to see you, I don't want to see your car on the street or anything. So I get back, I'm talking to the cleaning ladies, and I was probably talking to them for two minutes, and I turn around, go back out to my car. There's a note and a stuffed animal on my car. This is all the same day. And I like look around and I see him duck behind a bush, and so I like run out to the street, and he's like in his car speeding around, like skidding around the corner. And the crazy part is I didn't even see his car like when I pulled up, so in the two minutes, he like came into the neighborhood and did that.

SPEAKER_08 28:37

Well, he was like following you?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

I guess. I don't know. I don't know why he must have seen my car pull into the neighborhood or something.

SPEAKER_08 28:44

Why did you guys break up?

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Uh, this was the guy that I was talking about before.

SPEAKER_08 28:50

This is the same guy? Yeah. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

This was the first time we broke up.

SPEAKER_07 28:58

Oh my god. Wait, when did you guys start dating?

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Uh in December of 2024.

SPEAKER_07 29:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_08 29:08

So you guys started dating two years ago, a year and a half ago or whatever. And then you guys broke up. Why did you guys break up?

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Um, the first time we broke up is because I was paying for everything and monetary issues. Sure, sure, sure. And he wasn't doing anything with his life, he wasn't fixing his mouth, and I was like, you need to take your money and go fix your mouth. Cause when you're with me, all you do is focus on me, you know, focus on yourself, so like we can be together.

SPEAKER_08 29:37

Uh-huh. And then so you guys break up and then he's obsessed with you and doing all these crazy shit. And then that makes you even more attracted to him.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

I I'm not gonna lie, I was I was very attracted to that, but it was the wrong time, so I blocked him after that. I went no contact.

SPEAKER_08 29:54

Uh-huh. Okay. And then okay. And so once you guys get back together, how long did he do anything else to win you back?

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yes. So while we were in no contact, somebody texted me saying, Hey ma'am, I'm here to install the floors in your house. Or I need to come measure your floors to install them. And he knew that I wanted these floors done.

SPEAKER_08 30:20

How did he know this?

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Because he was with me when I bought the house. Oh, we were touring houses together. And so, yeah, so I was like, I was asking my friends, should I do this? Like, and they were all telling me, like, if you want him back in your life, and so I texted him and I was like, just because I'm letting you do my floors doesn't mean we're getting back together. Uh-huh. And so the floors start to be done. Of course, he has to come over and help. And then he brought a car with him, and yeah.

SPEAKER_08 30:53

And the car was nice.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

The car was nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 30:56

And then you got you were like the dollar signs and the cartoons that come out of the I actually I was more like, Why'd you buy me a car?

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Because my car is perfectly fine, and like, like, do you have bought you a car? Yeah. And I was like, Do you have it like that? Like, aren't aren't you struggling for money? And he was like, No, and like I can do your backyard too. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 31:20

I think you guys got back together.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

Crazy.

SPEAKER_06 31:25

Yeah, wild. Do you has anybody ever told you you're very toxic?

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Uh I feel like I've definitely been in toxic situations. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 31:38

More toxic situations. What what are some other toxic situations you've been in?

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Um, well, the guy that I was dating in the industry, um, we both had done OnlyFans. We like left the professional industry, and he started running out of money, and he's like, hey, I need to start shooting gay porn. And it even though he wasn't gay. So, in order to do that when you're not gay, you do you sniff poppers. Um, in this case, he did Molly too to loosen his ass. And he was like shooting, he had a sugar daddies, he was sucking their dicks and filming and whatever. But I wasn't allowed to do anything, right? So he was like, What do you mean?

SPEAKER_08 32:22

He was telling you you're not allowed to do porn.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Yeah, I wasn't allowed to have sugar daddies shoot with gr um guys or anything that I was letting him do, basically. So I was like fine with it, and then he started being really rude to me and mean to me, and so one day I asked him, like, are you gay? Like, I didn't expect him to say yes, but he was like, actually, I think I am. And and at that point we broke up, and then he stopped doing Molly when he was having sex with guys, realized he wasn't gay, wanted to get back with me, and at this point he was shooting with girls, so I'm like, I want to shoot my own content too. So I started shooting my stuff, he started shooting with girls too, and then he ended up cheating on me after that. So after that, I was just like, you know what? I'm done with these men in the industry. Like, I just need to to not like uh I thought the crazy would end there, like in the industry, but I don't know. I guess I just attract these types of men.

SPEAKER_07 33:26

Have you ever been with more crazy per people?

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Um, prior to this last guy I was with, I was single for like an entire year and I was dating around Vegas, and every single guy I dated was in the middle of a midlife crisis. Every single one. Like my friends were like, where the fuck do you find these guys?

SPEAKER_07 33:44

What were they doing?

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Nothing. They're in the midlife crisis.

SPEAKER_07 33:49

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Uh-huh. Interesting. Like either just got fired from their job, don't know what to do with their life.

SPEAKER_08 33:55

But it sounds like you're attract you're attracting guys who are controlling you.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Yeah, I think it's I just like dominant men. So Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_08 34:04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Yeah, both these guys were Aries, too.

SPEAKER_08 34:07

So who else have you dated that was overly dominant?

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Uh no one else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:16

It's it's interesting because I think majority of these so-called dominant people, right? I I find them more insecure than I do dominant. Because it just sounds like they wanted to control you because of because of the fact that they're so insecure in themselves that they just didn't want to lose you.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Yes, I agree. Right.

SPEAKER_06 34:41

Do you when you when you hear these stories? I'm like, whoa.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

You're like, well, what I was like, never mind, I'd take it back.

SPEAKER_06 34:56

You're like, I don't have a bad. It's interesting because it gives you perspective. No, it does.

SPEAKER_08 35:05

And okay, so so the what what what's your major?

SPEAKER_02 35:09

Business.

Fixing People And The HelloFresh Test

SPEAKER_08 35:10

And how old are you?

SPEAKER_02 35:11

19.

SPEAKER_08 35:12

Okay, and what is it that you're trying to do? Just in general? In business? No, yeah, just in general in your life.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Um well, in my life. Well, I'm focused on. Oh, I'm trying to go into finance. Got it. But we choose an emphasis next year, like in sophomore year, so I can still I still have time to kind of like explore. And it's easy.

SPEAKER_08 35:32

Like a lot of my friends switch majors halfway through, so um, do you do you think that when when you when you hear like these stories, right? Do you feel like you want to date around to find somebody who's like not toxic? Or do you feel like do you feel like you could just can't avoid toxicity?

SPEAKER_02 36:00

I feel like I can avoid I feel like oftentimes we see like the potential in people. Like it's so easy to be like, oh, he can be like this. If he tries to like do better, then he can do better. It's like you seeing like the potential in like some of your guys, you know.

SPEAKER_04 36:18

I've heard I've heard this a lot from girls. I never understood it. Cause um, so have you ever heard of HelloFresh? No, it's like this meal delivery service where they like send you like Oh, wait, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got scammed by them.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Oh, what?

SPEAKER_04 36:31

Because so I order like the biggest pack, like the 20 pack per week or whatever, because I'm like, it's cheaper if you like do like the bulk package, right? And the first shipment came in and I opened the thing, and none of my food is cooked, it's just like the ingredients in there.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 36:47

And I'm like, so I like call them, like, hey, you guys forgot to cook my food, and they're like, Oh no, this is a meal delivery service where it's just the ingredients, and you have to cook it yourself. And I'm like, why am I paying for meal delivery? I have to do the work, I'll just go to the fucking grocery store. You know what I mean? Yeah, so that's why I never understood is like there's guys who are already done. Like, they're the medium rare steak, potatoes, everything cooked. You know, exactly you can taste it, you can slice it up. Okay, this is exactly what this guy's like. And I see all these girls going for the ingredients that's like maybe this'll be good, like after you cook it, but like who knows?

SPEAKER_02 37:23

But like you never know.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

So, but then but that that's what I'm saying is like, why not just go for a guy who's already good?

SPEAKER_02 37:31

I think a lot of people think they can turn the ingredients into like a three-course Michelin star, you know, meal. And there are also some cases where you cook the meal and somebody else eats the meal instead.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

That's true. Like you change him for the better, yeah. Only to get swooped up by somebody else. Right? Yeah, that's true. That's true. Have you had that experience?

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Um, no, I think have you? I wouldn't say it was a Michelin star at that point. It's still the effort you put in though. Yeah. It went nowhere.

SPEAKER_08 38:09

You had mentioned um you dated a guy in Miami.

Sugar Dating In Miami Gone Wrong

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_08 38:15

What's the story?

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Uh, so this guy, um, me and my friend both kind of started seeing him together and then separately, and he lived in the top floor penthouse in Miami. So the first time I met him, he blindfolded me, told me I love you, and was like, say it back. And I was like, okay, this is weird. But um, then he led me into his room, which was 20-foot high ceilings, crimson, red walls, double California king bed, black silk sheets, soundproof, like like 50 shades of gray type shit. And he was like a real Dom, and it was crazy. And um, so he ended up saying that he loved me more, and so he he wanted to stop seeing my friend, and she was really upset about it. So she ended up stop paying me uh rent at one point, and so he was like, Alright, I'll see her again and give her some money. But he ended up taking this really humiliating video of her like doing anal and saying, like, say you're sorry, like say you're sorry to her. And so after that, she was like, after that, she and by the way, she liked this, but not that time. So after that, she was like, I don't like him anymore, I don't want to see him anymore. So, fast forward like three months, he ends up breaking up with me. I was devastated because I thought I really loved him at the time. And come to find out, she was having sex with him the whole time, the entire three months behind my back, both of them, and she was just like feeding stuff into his ear about like things that I was doing that I wasn't, so that's why he broke up with me. And yeah, that was uh wild. I was 20 at the time, so Okay, then he was 56.

SPEAKER_08 40:07

Oh, this is the guy that that's the oldest guy. You were 20, you were 20 and he's 56. Yes. Well, he was, yeah. Um he's 61 now. Yeah. Um, okay, so the okay, so how did you guys meet him? Okay, first of all, your friend was your roommate. Yes. Okay. So, and you guys met him at the same time? Yes. Where'd you guys meet him?

SPEAKER_01 40:28

She met him on a sugar dating website.

SPEAKER_08 40:33

Okay, so she met him on what what's like what's the site? Seeking arrangements. Seeking, okay. So she meets him on seeking. Um, and how do you come into the picture?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Um, so we would just like date guys together. So she was like the first one to meet them usually, and then she would bring me in.

SPEAKER_08 40:52

Like, so she went and met him, and then they had a conversation and was like, hey, my my roommate, my friend is also down. And then the second time you went in.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 41:02

With her together.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

No, just a lot.

SPEAKER_08 41:04

Separately.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 41:05

So she basically met this guy and they introduced you to him. Yes. Okay. Got it. Um and and at what point did this become a competition between you two?

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Uh, when he said that he wanted to start dating me, like, seriously, and and then he kind of cut her off financially.

SPEAKER_08 41:25

But did okay, so but did he do that just because of him? Or did he do that because you were making him do it?

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Oh no, I didn't make him do it. I wanted him to pay both of us because I lived with her. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_08 41:40

Got it. So then you did you tell her that this was gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01 41:45

I didn't know it was gonna happen. He just did it and then told me after, and I was like, Got it. Wow, that's gonna be awkward.

SPEAKER_08 41:52

Uh-huh. Gotcha. And so she was upset, and then she doesn't pay rent, rightfully so, probably, because she's the one who met him first and they introduce you, which makes sense. Yeah. And then, okay, and then wh who how did you find out that she was seeing him after he said that he had ended it?

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Um, I think it was like a few weeks later we were just like joking around, because I was like devastated for like a month, and then we were like joking around one day and she's like, Can I tell you something? Like, we were actually fucking and we still are. And I was just like, What?

SPEAKER_08 42:31

Uh-huh. Interesting. Yeah. And it's wild. And you were devastated because you were in love.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

I thought I was in love. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 42:38

Why don't you think that you're in love or you were in love?

SPEAKER_01 42:42

To be honest, I think that he was just grooming me to be like his perfect ideal woman. Like, he wanted me to have my nails done a certain way, how to dress a certain way, act a certain way. If I went out in public, like on podcasts, I had to present myself a certain way. And yeah, it was it was he was just a full like dom. Alright, here's what I'm here's what I'm curious about. But the age difference, I was like, uh he like love bombed me.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

So what was it like because it seemed like for you to like do all these things for him where you're like, oh, I'll dress like this for you all, like change all these things about my life, I'll do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

And like he's 56, I'm assuming he's not good looking.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

I mean, maybe like for a 56-year-old, but like you know what I mean. So, like, what about him was like made you like him that much that you're willing to like do all these things for him? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Um, well, for starters, I was 20 years old and he was giving me four thousand dollars a week. And he just bought me like I was really interested in certain things, and he just bought me like this entire library of books, like full of like everything that I was interested in, like. All these crystals would send flowers to my house, like food all the time. Like I don't know. He was just like showing me a side of life that I never had experienced at that point when I was so young.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

So at first, was it like you were in love with him? Or was more like, oh, he's giving me this lifestyle. I don't want to like lose out on this 4,000 a week I'm getting.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

No, I just thought I just like enjoyed our conversations and I just thought that I was falling in love with him. But in reality, I think that he was so smart and manipulative that he shaped himself to suit what he thought that I would like, if that makes sense. And while at the same time trying to like mold me into what he likes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:42

Because it's kind of crazy, 56-year-old dude with you. I'm assuming your friend is young and probably attractive. Yeah. And he has both of you guys doing whatever he wants. Like that's pretty crazy. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Like, yeah, it was wild. It was crazy. And to this day, he was still the best at eating pussy that I've ever had. Like out of anyone.

SPEAKER_07 45:04

What what makes him so good?

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Um takes the judges out. He his mouth was like a vibrator. I don't know what he did. Like he was like very into like tantric sex and like just I don't know. He was just really good. Like like he I would be screaming like the walls are soundproof for a reason in that place.

SPEAKER_08 45:28

Interesting. But that's actually that's that's actually a pretty good compliment to him considering the amount of people you've had sex with.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 45:37

What would you say that number is? Do you even know what that number is?

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Um, I keep a note in my phone. I think it's like 200 guys and like or no. I think it's like a hundred guys and like 200 girls or like two, three hundred girls.

SPEAKER_06 45:57

She's like, I have it in my phone. 200, 300, 400,000?

SPEAKER_01 46:01

This is including work or this is just including work in my personal life 25.

SPEAKER_08 46:08

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 46:09

How does how does that do how do you have time or the energy for a personal life?

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Uh, to be honest, I'm like in and out of the industry and I really pace myself, so I'll work one month and then I'll just take like two or three months off, and then I'll work one month and take another week off, or only film like a couple scenes. Like, yeah, I'm not like super burnt out.

SPEAKER_08 46:38

Um we we need to have another podcast episode with you once you resolve these contradictions in your mind. So then we

Faith, Past, And Realistic Standards

SPEAKER_08 46:46

could like find out where you're landed. Yeah. Right. Because I feel like I right now, if I ask you these questions, like some of the questions that I have on my mind is like I I feel like it's pointless because you're you're just gonna give answers that don't make any sense.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

I think I know like what I want for sure.

SPEAKER_08 47:03

You do?

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Yeah, I'm just confused about that situation. I I don't think it's gonna work out, unfortunately, but you know.

SPEAKER_07 47:11

So what is it that you want?

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Um, I want a man of God. I want somebody to see.

SPEAKER_07 47:24

What? What okay, I'm sorry, continue. Man of God, okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

I know, I know. I want a man of God. I want someone that's a provider, a leader, ambitious, somebody that makes more money than me because if they don't, it just causes issues. And I've realized that after dating a bunch of guys that don't make any money, my my hobby is traveling, so they need to like traveling and um they can't drink, they can't smoke, and they have to eat healthy and work out.

SPEAKER_07 48:04

Uh-huh. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Because those are all things that I did.

SPEAKER_07 48:07

Uh-huh. And where are you gonna find this person?

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Um, I believe in the law of attraction.

SPEAKER_04 48:15

So I think you better start manifesting hard. You better be doing your affirmations every morning.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Well, I already found one. So I think I think that if I leave the industry, I think that um I'll find one eventually. When it's the right time.

SPEAKER_07 48:37

Okay. And you believe that this man of God that you just described sounds like a pretty perfect person, to be honest with you. You think this person is gonna Okay, so so you're gonna meet this person, and and and and how does how is this conversation supposed to go exactly? Like you meet, and he's like, hey, like what do you do? And then like what are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Um, well I'm just I I'm just confused because I right now I'm not gonna date anyone. I don't want to date anyone. I just want to make my money and leave the adult industry once and for all.

SPEAKER_08 49:14

Okay, so let's say I have a business. Let's say let's say that timeline is like in three years. Right? I'd say in one year. In one year. Okay, perfect. Sounds good. You're 26 years old. Okay, and you meet someone who is exactly what you said. And then the guy says, hey, but like what's what's been going on the past 26 years of your life? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 49:35

And then and and and you say, you say what?

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Like Okay.

SPEAKER_06 49:42

And then and then this guy is gonna be like, why am I choosing to be with you?

SPEAKER_08 49:46

Like, what is like why is this perfect person gonna be with somebody who's who has your history?

SPEAKER_01 49:55

I think that it shouldn't matter. I don't think it should matter.

SPEAKER_06 50:01

But the but the criteria that you just said mattered.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

So the criteria that I just described was basically my ex. The only part is that he couldn't provide. I mean, there were some other issues, but like the core of what I described.

SPEAKER_06 50:19

Uh-huh. Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

So, like, you know.

SPEAKER_08 50:22

Uh-huh. But but all of those criteria are the things that matters to you. So don't you think that somebody else would have criteria that matters to them? That which which I at the point when I asked you the question, you said it shouldn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Well, I think for my person that I will meet, it won't matter. Because I believe that there's a perfect person for everyone. Well, I think there's multiple people. There's this concept.

SPEAKER_08 50:47

But there's this concept they call delusion. Have you ever heard of it?

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Why do you think it's delusional?

SPEAKER_08 50:55

Because you're making stuff up that have no place in reality.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Why?

SPEAKER_08 51:00

Because when you say a man of God who has X, Y, and Z, right? First of all, a man of God would look and and sure, and there's certain situations where somebody would um fall in love with you, let's say, theoretically speaking, and would think to themselves that, oh, okay, you have changed. You have changed and you've become a woman of God, which I would assume would be something that you would have to do, right? But I just I find it very difficult for that to be a realistic set of events that would take place because if it were me and I was looking at somebody that I want to be with, and I was like, okay, I have I have the option of being with this person who has this history, but then I also have another I don't know how many million other options who don't have that history. So it just seems unrealistic for somebody who is a man of God, who's very successful, who has so many options, because because somebody that you described would have a lot of options, right? And I just don't think that it would be realistic for them, it would be, it would make any sense for them to go and pick somebody who's been with 300 plus people, for example, and has been in an adult industry because your background is not gonna go anywhere, right? And I'm not saying these are bad things, right? I'm not I'm not saying like this is a negative thing or a positive thing. I'm just saying somebody who would look because what you describe as a man of God is you're you're looking at that in a in a positive aspect. You're saying that somebody who is a man of God is is a is a positive attribute, right? Which in return, the opposite of that would be that you're describing what you're doing as a negative attribute. Does that make sense? So then somebody picking that negative attribute as somebody's background wouldn't make any sense for them because they had they have other options that wouldn't have that negative attribute at all.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Well, I don't think that anyone's perfect, and I think that if I'm with someone, I personally wouldn't care how many people they've been with because that just means that they're probably better in bed. And so uh I don't know, I'm just very confident in who I am. I think I'm very intelligent and smart and bring a lot to the table. So um I just don't think that that matters to everyone. It may matter to you, it may matter to a lot of men, but I just I really don't think that that that someone's past has to define them and define their future.

SPEAKER_08 53:45

The reality of the matter is that in in a in a situation where somebody is saying, such as yourself, that like you don't think somebody's past should define them or or define their future, majority of the time it does. That's how that's how that's that's why people care about history, is because a person's history usually creates a narrative of how their future is gonna look like. Now, somebody could co go off that path and just create a completely different path, but most of the time people don't.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

But I think it if you're looking at someone in a one-dimensional lens, then yes, you could look at it that way. But I think people are multi-facing.

SPEAKER_08 54:28

I dated this girl and she um when when we were dating, I asked her, I was like, hey, why and this is like years ago. And she was like, Hey, like, I was like, Why are you doing OnlyFans? She was doing it. This was like in the beginning when OnlyFans had started. And she was like, Well, you know, I'm doing OnlyFans because um this is just a stepping stone to like me doing this other thing, and I was like, Okay, and she was like, Yeah, like I would meet a lot more people through this, and then I'd be able to just like you know work my way up and like do this other thing, and I and in my mind, I I was thinking that makes no sense, but sure, sounds good. You do you and we break up, and then um one of the reasons why we broke up was because I didn't want to be with somebody who was doing OnlyFans or porn porn for that matter, and then a few years later, um I was talking to her and I was like, Hey, how's it going? Blah blah blah. I was like, Yep, like what are you up to now? And she was like, Well, I'm doing porn, and I was like, huh. That's interesting. Because a few years ago you said you were doing doing OnlyFans because you were trying to do this other thing that had nothing to do with sex work, but then you kind of graduated from doing OnlyFans, now you're doing porn. And then and then she would have this conversation, these conversations with me, like I'm trying to get out of it, I'm like saving up, I'm doing this. Like, I I look, you're not the first person that I've met who does porn, and you're not the first person who who said these words to me that like, oh, I'm trying to get out of it, and like I'm gonna do it for another year. It just never really ends that way. Majority of the time, like they tend to do it for years after, and it just gets to a point where you finally do meet someone who's not the perfect man that you thought, but somebody that's just good enough or has enough money to just make it work and then and just settle down because you know what other options you got. So I think you know, if if somebody's really serious about not doing something or getting out of something, right? If I if I if tomorrow I decided that this podcast is no longer something that I want to do, I just won't do it anymore. Because I think everything else is our excuses for us to prolong the inevitable and so and and and and it's just the history of it, I think that that remains. It always does. And if your goal is really to find somebody with those attributes that you're looking at, and you're thinking that okay, that perfect person has these attributes, because the attributes that you described are pretty significant, like there, there's not very many people who don't drink and don't smoke. There are not very many people who are like men of God and like have these uh you know successes in you know in in like their uh their their financial aspects. I mean, there there's a lot of people who have some parts of those things, but there aren't very many that have all of those attributes combined. And on top of it, then wanting to be with somebody who has a history of being a sex worker before. So I don't know. I I wish you like if you do find that person, I would love to meet them because I you know learned something new, but I I don't know. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. Um, what's what's a perfect date?

What A Perfect Date Reveals

SPEAKER_01 57:57

Um, perfect date would probably be going on a hike and just going to a nice dinner.

SPEAKER_04 58:04

And then he buys me a car.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

I I don't care about cars.

SPEAKER_08 58:10

Chrissy, do you agree that that's a perfect date? Um or do you prefer something else?

SPEAKER_02 58:18

I do like nature activities. Hiking's not my thing, but I do I do like outdoor activities or like places where we have to do something. Like I don't know, like Disney or like Disneyland.

SPEAKER_08 58:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

That's cute. Like going somewhere that you're actually doing something rather than just like if somebody took you to Disneyland on a first date. I think it's fun.

SPEAKER_08 58:41

That would be that would you would definitely give them a second date.

SPEAKER_04 58:45

Yeah, yeah, be careful about the hiking one on a first date. That's how you end up on one of those like TV shows. Oh, where they disappear. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 58:56

Christy disappeared. Christy disappeared.

SPEAKER_08 58:59

I don't think Chris, so there's there's a couple people who have said hiking is good, but there's there's I I think we've always gotten this like mixed review on what the perfect first date is. You know, some people are like, no, it has to be a super nice dinner, but then I think the opposite has always been, oh, like a hike or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 59:17

But what I I I think, and this is uh not the politically correct opinion, I think the date has to have drinking involved to make it good for a first date.

SPEAKER_08 59:31

Because well, she wants somebody sober, so yeah, that's what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 59:35

I just think like people have these ideas of first date, like, yeah, like you know, we I want to like go to do this cool, like, you know, painting thing or like Dave and Busters or something like that. But if like there's something that's the truth that is like for most people, having some kind of alcohol on the first date just loosens everybody up, and you just get in the country. That is true that you like I remember I went on a coffee date one time, it was like a lunch coffee date, and it was a girl that I like the night before I'd met, we had like really good conversations, the vibe was good, like we like made out a little bit, whatever. And then we went on this coffee date, and it just felt like I don't know, we I just couldn't get on this like vibe with her anymore, and I feel like it was because it's like daytime coffee just felt like a like business setting, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:25

I think lounges are nice. There's a lot of those in Hong Kong where it's like you get like small bites and like drinks throughout the day.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:32

Yeah, see, that'd be fun. That'd be like the first day, I think. Or you know, get drunk at Disneyland, like that'd be fun too, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:40

Were you born in the US?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

No, I was born in Hong Kong.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:44

Oh, okay, cool. Your your English is very good. But I mean, you guys also speak English there.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

I went to an international school in Shanghai, so I grew up there. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:54

When did you move to the US?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

Uh last year, for university.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:58

Oh, literally for for school. Oh, okay, great. No, I mean you sound very native. It's kind of good for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:06

Thank you.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:07

Is the is so that wait. The guy that you dated when you were 17, when did you Well, I didn't really date him.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:14

I wouldn't call that a date. Honestly.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:17

You called that a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

Oh, well, some sort of relationship, I guess.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:23

Okay. But that was that was here. That was I was in Toronto. That was in Toronto, Canada. Okay. Where 17 is legal. What's the consent age there?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

Might be 18. See, that wasn't really a religion.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:41

Well, I mean, it's not it's not a big deal. I I think it's kind of it surprises me when some guys don't um are not afraid of dating somebody who's 17, for example. Or obviously in places that age of consent is 18, because I think I mean, regardless of whether he was like it still would be illegal.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

So I was actually confused about his age. It wasn't like a long it was like a one-two-month thing. So it wasn't anything. I didn't I was confused about his age throughout the whole time. So I didn't maybe in my school, like it wasn't in my high school, obviously.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:24

And so he was he was in your university?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:29

No, I was in high school.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:30

You were in high school.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:31

So how did you was in university? Guys, it was at a party place.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:37

Uh-huh. You went to a party and then you met this guy. Okay. Yeah. So then in that sense, I suppose he wouldn't have known that you're in high school anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:43

So I thought it would be like a I don't know, like a one-time thing.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:46

Got it. Got it. Makes sense. Cool. Um, I'm actually gonna ask a couple more questions and then we'll wrap it up. Um

Trust, Phones, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_08 1:02:56

what is what is your love language?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Physical touch.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:00

That's your number one.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

Yeah. Or acts of service, actually. Okay. They're tied.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:07

Okay, so those are your top two. What's the last one?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

Um gift giving.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:17

I don't believe you. It's shocking. I don't believe you. That was what I would guess your number one was. Literally, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

We would still be together if it was. Alright?

SPEAKER_08 1:03:30

Uh-huh. Interesting. What what about you? Do you know yours?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

I love gift gifting. Like I give gifts a lot.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:37

But that's not your that's your that's your giving love language.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

I liked acts of service only because I feel like people can talk big, but if they don't do it, then it's just empty words, you know?

SPEAKER_08 1:03:49

It's uh it's always challenging, I think, with people who have that as their number one for somebody like to do something for them when you don't know them that well, right? Like if I just met you and we went on a date, um, I I know nothing about you, so like act of service would be fairly difficult to implement.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:11

Not really.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:12

Why?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:13

Just like do whatever for all, you know. Yeah, but whatever. Like a little action.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:18

Be chivalrous. Yeah. Uh if you notice her nails aren't done, offer to get them done. Like, I mean, I would hope her nails aren't done. Well, just like little things you can do. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:31

Gotcha. Gotcha. Would that be you don't think that would be insulting if if like I looked at your nails and it was like, hey, I'm gonna get your nails done.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:39

No. Really? No, and I'm just secure. So Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:44

I think some girls would be offended.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

I'd be like, oh my gosh, really? Uh-huh. Thank you.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:49

I suppose you could also say next time you want to get your nails done. Yeah. I could do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:54

I don't know. Nail, I mean, nails wouldn't be that offensive. Someone was like, hey, let me give you a facelift. Wait, why would you give me the facelift? Let me get you a boob top. Yeah. That is hilarious. Let's fix that problem you have.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:09

Um, do you think you should have access to your partner's phone?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:14

No.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:15

Not at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

No, I think that's like overstepping. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:20

Should they have access to yours?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

No.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:23

But you would allow it if they asked. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:26

I would show them.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:28

No, but would you give them your password?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

Yeah, everyone I dated has had my password, but we don't look through phones, you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:37

What about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:38

For me personally, right now, no, just because I have like my mom's bank stuff on my phone. So no for that. But you know, for privacy. But if you're dating someone, oh then I wouldn't mind. Oh, yeah. No, I wouldn't mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:55

If you're dating someone, I feel like you should there should be like enough trust between. Between you that they're not gonna steal your mom's bank and phone. I think you never know.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

Yeah, no, I wouldn't put that trust in my body.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:09

It's it's it's it's it's interesting because like I with my past relationship, like I was dating this one girl, and I was actually talking to Zach about this. Some people could become very vindictive during a breakup. So you could you could you could think that you know someone while you're dating them, and you would if if somebody asked you, you'd be like, Yeah, this person would never hurt me like this, or would never do something like this. But the minute that somebody breaks up with you, all of those things are just out the window. You no longer know this person. So I think people are capable of doing things when they're angry and when they're hurt that you would never imagine somebody that you once loved and said that they loved you would do something like that to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:02

Although, in your experience, it seems like people that you break up with just keep coming.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:10

They just keep trying to do, they do more actually during the time you break up with them than they do when you're with them.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:17

I guess they don't care about my past.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:22

Touche. Touche. That is funny. Do you uh would you

Height, Porn, And Monogamy

SPEAKER_08 1:07:27

care? First of all, does height matter?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:29

Uh I would say because I feel like I'm pretty tall.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:34

Or how tall are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

Five five.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:38

Pretty tall. Like average woman. I'd say that's like an inch above average. Yeah. An inch above average, maybe. Uh-huh. So then how tall would if they're 5'5, is that okay?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

I wouldn't prefer someone the same height as me.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:53

The answer is no. That's a very politically correct answer you just gave. I would prefer. Um, okay, so how tall would they have to be? What's the minimum?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:04

I would say 6'1 or 6'2.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:08

She was like 5'5. I wouldn't prefer it. 6'2. Not even 5'11.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:15

No 5'10. 6'2. Just a preference.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

Just a preference.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:19

Gotcha. How tall do they have to? You're pretty tall.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

Yeah, I'm 5'9, so um, I've only dated guys that are my height or taller.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:29

5'9 girl says. If they're 5'9, that's okay, I guess. 5 girls is like 6'2.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

I don't think I'd be an opposed, but like at this point in my life, I don't think I'd be attracted to someone if they were under six foot. Because the sex is just so much better when they're taller.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:49

Is that right? How does that make a difference?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

Um, I just like to be dominated, so when they're taller, like it's just more of like a dynamic going on. And like if you're short, like what are you gonna like get on the bed? Or like we're fucking and like my feet are sticking out farther than theirs, and it's like that's a turnoff.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:14

Are you like wiggling your feet to see if they're touching his ankle or feature like rubbing on my chins, and I'm like, uh, this feels wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

Like, babe, get the steps.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:26

That is funny. That's hilarious. Um, do you care? I'm assuming the answer to this question is no, but well, actually, I guess maybe it is yes because of what you said. Do you care if your partner watches porn?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:43

No.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:44

You don't care?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:45

No.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:46

But a man of God wouldn't watch porn.

unknown 1:09:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:48

Exactly. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:51

I feel like a lot of men of God do watch porn on the low.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

I I just I don't know. You know, you never know what someone's doing when they're in the bathroom, but I don't care. I really don't, because I just I'm I'm in it. So you're getting it. Like gotcha.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:11

Do you care?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:12

I've never thought about it. I've never watched it. So I don't know. Maybe not. Oh, wait, maybe I do care.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:22

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:26

I don't know. I haven't I have never thought about it.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:29

Uh-huh. Okay. Um It's interesting that you s you okay. So you do you do you want to only be in a monogamous relationship? Yes. Okay. No open relationships for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:40

No, I've tried it and it's not for me.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:42

You have tried it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:44

How did that go? Um And why didn't it work out?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:47

We started off kind of monogamous and we talked about like all of our boundaries and everything, of like if we did meet up with someone and I was still filming, and he was like, Okay, I'm gonna go on a date with this girl. And I started to get like really in my head that he was going on a date with her, and I had a threesome with these two guys, and then he went on the date, and he told me, like, oh, I put my hand on her thigh and we kissed, and that that was it. I was like, You lost your Yeah, I was like, I can't do this, it's not like I I can't do it because I like the possessiveness and the passion, and with open relationships, like why are you going on a date with her? Like, you know, like she's not cute. Like what if you're gonna do it? It kind of turns me off. I'm like, ew.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:45

It turns you off because she wasn't cute.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:47

Yeah, in that case, if she was cute, I think it would have turned me off less. Because then I would have been like, okay, like we can all like I don't know. I'm I like possessiveness and but that man could be possessive towards both of you. No, I just can't do it. I can't I like I like my man being like completely obsessed with me.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:13

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

And passionate and involved with only me.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:18

Or are you also obsessed with him? Yes. Got it. So this is a two-way street. I don't have a two-way street, yeah. Understood. Um question. Does size matter?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:37

Have you ever been on the case?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

In the past, no, but after being with guys with a big dick, yeah, it matters, and I would actually only date someone if they had an uncut dick. So actually only European guys, like that's my type.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:51

Uh-huh. What why is that?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:54

Um, it just feels so good. Like, I don't know. They have like like you know the saying once you go black, you never go back. I feel like that's because they have like a specific type of dick. Like their dicks are kind of squishy, like they have like an extra layer of fluff around it, like the big ones. And uncut dicks have the same thing, like it's like kind of squishy, and like I don't know. I don't know how to explain to a guy like what the difference is, but it feels better. Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:28

Gotcha. Have you ever been with somebody with a micro penis?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:33

The guy that I dated for two years had a five-inch stick. That was not that's not a micro penis. But it was small. It might have been like four and a half.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:42

It was still not a micro penis, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

True, true. Yeah, no, I've never well, the guy in Miami had a micropenis.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:53

The one who had both of you. Yeah. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:56

Yeah. So yes, I have.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:58

Like an actual micro penis.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:59

Couldn't feel it.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:00

Yeah. Had to pretend.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:02

The guy you were you were in love with, supposedly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:05

Who then he made up for it with his eating skills.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:10

Maybe that's why it's so good. He's like, my whole life. I gotta This is the only way I can keep anybody around.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:16

True.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:17

Oh, that is interesting. Very interesting. What about you? It doesn't matter. Well, I guess you don't really know.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:22

So more experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:27

Yeah, it comes with time.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:30

Well, it doesn't come with time particularly. It just comes with the desire to.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:36

And also the job, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:39

Yeah. Yeah. I I'm glad that I had this job because it gave has it's given me the ability to explore so many things sexually that I never would have experienced otherwise.

Body Count And Experience Debates

SPEAKER_01 1:14:51

So I know what I want.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:52

Do you care about the guy's body count?

SPEAKER_07 1:14:56

Um why is that?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:07

I feel like in my opinion, I feel like guys take it more casually. Like my guy friends take it more casually than like my girlfriends. But that's like the only reason. I feel like the intention they go in with like fucking a girl. Like, is it just to like add one more number or if it's or if he actually likes her? Okay. You get it.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:33

Like you're saying you're saying you care because the guys have the intention.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:40

Like, I feel like if they have like a really high body count, then it's because they don't care about, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:47

Got it. Okay. But only in that sense. What's a high body count?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:58

I want to say 15, but you want to say 15. But she said she had 25.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:03

But also if your daddy does are like 21, 22.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:06

Yeah, I feel like for that time, like that's uh a high body count.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:10

What's the oldest you would be with?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:12

Um I think right now, because I'm a freshman, like a senior, I wouldn't go above that.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:18

What is that? 24, 25? 26? Oh, 20. 22. Yeah, 22. Oh. Oh, okay. So like three years older than you. Um, so then 15 at that point is a reasonable number, you say. Okay. Um let's do some math here. Just for the sake of this conversation. Um, what's a reasonable number of women for a guy to be with per month?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:46

Per month? Like my age?

SPEAKER_08 1:16:50

Yeah, just like any guy. Any age. Like how many how many women can a guy be with in one month for you to say that this is a reasonable number? Like one?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:08

Is that is that but are they like just once or like multiple times?

SPEAKER_08 1:17:14

Um you were just like dating somebody for a month. Let's say I'm dating somebody, let's say I date one girl per month for a duration of a month. Is that okay?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

So you change girls every month?

SPEAKER_08 1:17:27

It just happens that like these girls are not right for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:31

I feel like I would say no.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:33

That's not okay. So you think that's like too much? Oh yeah. Okay. Um one girl every three months.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:42

I'd say that's better. But I feel like I'm also not looking for a guy that's like actively trying to look for a woman, if you get what I mean. Because I'm not trying to date someone right now.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:59

If I so happen to meet a guy, but he's like actively trying to meet women, then I feel like But you're suggesting that the person is trying, but if somebody's just like naturally meeting people and then breaking up with them and then just like meeting other people.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:16

He's just the very he's just very good. Very charismatic. Very charismatic.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:20

Charismatic. Um I'll say no harm in like getting to know that person. I wouldn't say no because of him meeting women every three months or like every two months.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:32

Got it. But you prefer somebody who's just like if you met a guy who was a virgin, you'd be like, great.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:39

I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I would I wouldn't want a virgin guy.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:45

You don't want a virgin guy. No. Why is that?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:50

Um, I want someone who's a bit more experienced.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:54

But not too experienced.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:58

You're like between five and seven. It has to be between five and seven.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:02

Interesting. That's that's such an interesting way of like thinking.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:05

I feel like a lot of my friends would agree with that. Like want someone completely inexperienced.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:13

You kiss them and then like it's like kissing a weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:15

And then it's like you do, it's like you getting the ingredients all again, except like this time it's like not even packaged for you.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like thrown on your cover.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:24

Yeah. And then you have to like actually prepare, prepare this time. Um you just don't want to hoe.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:30

Pardon? You just don't want to hoe. Don't want to hoe. But yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:35

I am assuming, based upon your answers, that you also want monogamy in your relationship. Yes. And you wouldn't be open to an open relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:43

No.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:44

Why is that?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:45

Um, I feel like that concept is still kind of foreign to me. I've never met anyone, I don't have friends who's in an open relationship. So I feel like I've never thought about it as well.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:57

But does that does what she says make sense to you that you want somebody to be obsessed with you?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:02

Yeah, I agree with like the loyalty and ups. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:05

Not the you want somebody to be loyal to you, but not obsessed. Or do you want some you don't come off as the type of person who wants somebody who's obsessed with them?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:13

No, I actually don't like clingy people. I was like, she's a Capricorn. No, like I need my space, and I'm like, sure he needs his space too. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:23

What when is your birthday?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:24

December 30th.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:26

Ah. One day before uh um New Year.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:32

What's your sign?

SPEAKER_08 1:20:33

Guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:35

Oh, I have no clue.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:37

You don't?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:38

Yeah, I feel like you can't really guess people's signs unless they're like Scorpio. Aquarius. No. Taurus.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:46

No. No, I'm a Virgo. Virgo. You would be able to tell if you knew me. But if you don't know me, obviously you wouldn't be able to, but majority of the time, people who know me could guess fairly well. Um You actually have the same birthday as my ex. Oh I was I was thinking for a second, I was like, wait, is she the 29th or the 30th? And she's the 30th also. So I told you. When's your birthday? Like September? September 18th, yeah. Yeah. But I'm 100 years old, so.

Final Thoughts And Goodbyes

SPEAKER_08 1:21:20

Well, thank you guys for coming on the show. You've been very open and honest. And I wish you both the best. Hope you find the perfect man in the world that you're looking for. And I hope you find somebody who's uh not a hoe, but also experienced. So good luck. I hope to thank you. Thanks for watching. We'll see you later.