311 - An EdTech Eulogy - with Jon Smith

As we near the end of the school year, it is time to reflect on our coaching and decide what went well and what we can utilize for next year. However, there will likely be some methods and practices that should not make the trip into next year. Rather they should end or perish with the finish of the school year. With us today is Jon Smith from BookCreator, who is going to talk more about how the death of certain edtech practices is actually a good thing for our coaching.

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Podcast Team
Hosts- Katie  Ritter & Justin Thomas
Editing Team- Michael Roush, Justin Thomas 
Social Media/ Promo Team- Annamarie Rinehart, Lisa Kuhn, Maggie Harris
Creative/Content Team- Justin Thomas, Brooke Conklin
Producer- Justin Thomas

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Transcript

Brooke Conklin: 0:00

Calling all instructional coaches join Forward Edge coaches camp in summer 2023. Coaches camp is packed with high quality professional development exclusively for you. Attendees will work with like minded coaches on creating strategies for building teacher relationships, executing coaching cycles and building a culture of coaching and tech integration within their district. There are two opportunities to attend coaches camp in the summer of 2023. You can join us virtually June 12 through 14th or come visit us in Cincinnati on July 27, and 28th. Please visit forward hyphen edge dotnet slash coach camp to reserve your spot today. Aloha I'm

Justin Thomas: 0:40

Katie Ritter, Justin Thomas and this is the restart recharge podcast a podcast by coaches for coaches, we bring you the tips and tricks help you in your everyday work as an instructional coach or whatever they call in your school.

Katie Ritter: 0:51

So hopefully, you're going to leave this episode with us today feeling just a little bit less than your own coaching Island.

Justin Thomas: 0:57

Well as we near the end of the school year, it is time to reflect on our coaching and decide what went well and what we can utilize for next year. However, there will likely be some methods and practices that probably should not make the trip and the next year. Rather, they should just end or perish with the finish of this school year. So with us today is John Smith from book reader. And John's going to talk a little bit more with us about death of certain edtech practices and how this actually could be a good thing for our coaching. So that should be really interesting. But first, let's go and introduce who John Smith is in case you aren't sure. John Smith is currently the teacher Success Manager for book reader and an Apple Distinguished Educator class of 2015. John was a special education teacher for 12 years before spending seven years as in technology integration specialist for Alliance City Schools in Ohio, where his digital book projects have attracted attention to for their global reach and practical approaches to integrating transliteracy practices in the classroom. John organized nine global digital book projects in which classrooms from around the world wrote and published digital books. He is married with three children John is a scratch golfer in his spare time John also details cars, you can connect with John on Twitter at the AI pod teacher. So welcome in John Smith. Once again here on the Restore recharged podcast.

Jon Smith: 2:15

Hey, thanks for having me. I guess that's a good thing, right? If you get invited back, oh, yeah, I must not have offended too many people. So I don't know if that means I didn't do my job. Or, or what? So yeah, no, thanks for having me. And that was a good intro. I don't know who wrote that. But it was it sounded nice. I appreciate it. Oh, no

Justin Thomas: 2:33

problem. It's actually we had from you for last time. I figured.

Jon Smith: 2:36

I'm kidding. I think somebody wrote it. I think my good friend, Jeremy brookies. The word is transliteracy though, cuz I didn't even know what that meant when he wrote it. I was like, it sounds cool. So I'll keep using it.

Justin Thomas: 2:47

Maybe we should get us to get them to write our BIOS, too.

Jon Smith: 2:50

Sounds good.

Katie Ritter: 2:51

Well, John, we're glad to have you back. And I'll go ahead and kick it off. So when Justin first came to me with this idea, he's like, Hey, we want to have John Smith on again. We were talking to him. He wants to talk about what just needs to die. And I'm like, Okay, I think you're gonna have to give me a little bit more than that. Justin. So he was like, No, it's really good. So anyway, once he described it, I'm like, Okay, I'm on board. Let's dive in. So maybe kind of in the spirit of that vein, you know, John, I think myself and our listeners might like to hear it straight from you. Give us a little bit more background, like, where did you come from with this topic?

Jon Smith: 3:34

Yeah. So it's a little weird, I have to admit, right? Especially coming from the book Raider guy, like what he wants to talk about death. So, ya know, I started this, this thought process, I guess, years and years and years ago, and it kind of has just evolved over time. So when I left special ed, and went into the this tech integration role. I was talking with the principal, one day, and he's like, Hey, we got this thing. We've done it for years. It's called Learning at lunch. And I was like, okay, and he's like, what we do is once a month, we feed the staff during their lunch breaks, you can come in you teach technology, right? So this was kind of like this leftover thing, from the lady who I replaced, right, she retired and it was just kind of one of the things that was like, she's done it for a decade. We're gonna keep doing it, you're gonna do it, you know, like, whatever. And I was like, okay, cool. So, actually enjoyed it, right? Like, it was a really cool time to have teachers come in, and I would teach technology for three periods, you know, or three lunch breaks during the day, and the teachers would get fed, they were happy. They were listening, you know, because they got fed. And it was always a captive audience. And I'm like, this is pretty cool. So we did this for I don't know, like a year or two. And then the principal came to me and he's like, Hey, I'm out of money. He's like, I can't feed anybody anymore. So we're gonna have to like Not due learning at lunch? Do you have any ideas? And I was like, I don't know. I was like, you know, let me let me think about it. Right. So I think about I come back to him later that day. And I was like, why don't we do something in the morning, right? As if we always have this, at least at the high school from seven to 730. Every day, they had like, some kind of planning. And I was like, Let's do like on Fridays, I was like, let's do something called. I don't know, computers. And he's like, Oh, computers and coffee. And I was like, yes, except I don't like coffee. And which is weird, because of all these Starbucks mugs behind me, right? So I'm like, I was like, I don't do coffee. I was like, so let's do computers in Chrome nuts. Right? And he's like, what's a chrome nut? And I was like, let's like a glazed croissants like a doughnut on steroids, right. I was like, it's amazing. He's like, Okay, sounds great. He goes, Are you going to bring the chrome nuts? And I was like, No, I was like, I don't have any money. either. I was like, I'm just gonna be using Kronos.

Katie Ritter: 5:59

I'm thinking, I'm gonna computer part.

Jon Smith: 6:01

Right? I was like, I was like, I'm not. And he's like, Well, I'll buy some coffee or something. I was like, Okay, well, first of all, he never did. So we never had Chronos. And we never had coffee, right? So it was like, it was all a lie, to begin with. Anyway. So we showed up on everybody showed up on Fridays, and it was all voluntary, right? It was just like, Hey, you want to come in at seven o'clock, you want to learn some technology? You know, come on it. So you know, people did you know, and I mean, I would have like six to 10 people like every Friday. And so this was going great. And I love that the people love that who attended. And this lasted about maybe a year and a half again, another year and a half, two years or whatever. And eventually, I started realizing that it was always the same people, right, that would show up was the same six people was the same 10 people, people who were always like a captive audience, right? They're like drinking the John Smith Kool Aid, any chance they got, right. And I was like, Alright, I love these people. But I started to realize that that there were a whole lot of other people in this school that really needed to come down here and like, learn some technology, right and learn something different. And so as I was talking to principal about I was like, I think we need to change this a little bit, right? Because you know, whatever. And so we we talked and we're like, well, let's make it mandatory. I was like, okay, he's like, but let's do it three days a week, instead of like, one day a week. And I was like, All right, yeah. Okay, cool. Let's try this. Well, that that got old, like real fast, right? Because second, you say mandatory. Like, that's like the kiss of death. Oh, rubber stamped death right there. Right. And it was just over the second that we came up with this idea that it was mandatory. So we tried it. And to be completely honest, the teachers hated it. Like they hated it. They hated me even more than I think they did some of them to begin with, like it was it was real bad, real fast. And I was like, we've got to, you know, like, we've got to do this. And same, again, change something because I was like, I can't I can't handle it. And so we keep trying it, you know, and it was again, just really bad. And I got into like this, like really dark space, right? Because I was like, I hated going to work. I didn't want to go to computers and Chronos three days a week, I didn't like half the people I was talking to anymore. Like it was weird, right? Like, I was like, I hate this. And so I'm at another conference one day, and I'm there with one of our curriculum directors, and we're chatting about this idea, right? Like, I was like, she's like, how are things going? And I was like, I hate everything right now. I was like, I don't, I don't want to be here. I don't like what I'm doing. And she's like, Well, why? And I kind of told her the story, like what we just talked about? And she goes, and as far as like, it's just not a good place, you know? And she goes, Well, she said something to me. And I was like, wait, what she looked at me, she goes, maybe that's a good thing. And I was like, I was like, I don't think you'd listen to anything. Like, everybody hates me. I hate all of them. Like, I don't feel like I'm in a good place. Like, how was this a good thing? Like, please explain this to me. And she goes, Well, she goes on, maybe it's a good thing, because the teachers don't need you. And I was like, Wait, this is getting even worse. Like, they don't need me. And she's like, Well, no, no, she's like, listen, she's like, maybe they don't need you in the way that they've needed you in the past. Right? And I was like, okay, and she doesn't well, maybe they don't need you to the spoon feed them technology and ideas. Maybe they need something different. And I was like, Oh, I was like, Okay, and so then we kind of started this idea of, you know, technology coach, right? This coaching thing was starting to come around, you know, and I was like, Oh, sure, I'll change my title right to like technology coach, and maybe that'll change some things. And I started working more like on his one to one level with the teachers and it was really a lot more interesting. Right. And, and so the teachers would come to me and we will talk about lessons and we talked about ways we can incorporate technology and and all that kind of stuff. It was kind of cool, right? Yeah. But before that, like I was like, Okay, this is interesting with this idea that, you know, come Peters and Crow nuts is is bad, like, and we just need it to die, right? Like we need it to be gone. And so this whole idea of you know, like getting rid of it and letting computers and credits suffer this death became like this interesting thing to me. And so before I moved on to this other coaching thing, we had like a funeral service for it, we had like this, like people came up and spoke, like they had like a funeral arrangement set up, and I made like flyers

Katie Ritter: 10:28

that was like a roast of the computers and grow nuts.

Jon Smith: 10:31

It was it was like it was a complete death ceremony. Right, we had this funeral for computers in Chronos. And so it was interesting. And so again, it was kind of the, you know, this idea that everything changed, right. And I think, you know, is as morbid as it sounds, you know, at the beginning, when you're talking about like, what are the things in your life that just need to die? Right? Like, it's really not a bad thing, right. And I think that the the curriculum director made me realize that that as a teacher, right, or as a human, right, we have things in our lives personally, professionally, and everywhere in between, just need to go away. And sometimes we don't give ourselves permission to just let it die and just say, You know what, that's not working for me anymore. We need to try something different. And so that's kind of where this whole idea started from.

Katie Ritter: 11:20

Yeah, it kind of makes me think of that whole concept that you hear in education sometimes around, you know, the, like, what's wrong with education? Sometimes, or what's wrong with XYZ is because the IRS, you know, when you ask someone, why do we do this? And the response is just like, well, we've always done it that way. Right? I mean, I think that's what you're getting at here. And I think it's also a really interesting time to have this conversation, not just right, like there's, there's so many things, it could be like a tool you're using, it could be the way you're using this, whether it's technology, or it's not technology, right? Like maybe you need to let that worksheet go. And it's not serving your students anymore, all the way to like these larger programs that are more systemic, like in your case, you know, the computers with crow nuts, or whatever it may be. So I think it's super interesting, because I think of very much as you're telling that story, and kind of bringing the context to this whole idea here, I just think so much about these past couple of years, and just so many things that are happening in classrooms, I just feel like I've, I've talked with so many administrators over the past couple of years that have just said, you know, we, we don't need to focus on technology anymore, we're going to move away from it, because we, you know, our teachers are tired of it, or, you know, they're just like putting the kids to babysit the kids with the technology now. And it's just so disheartening to me, because I think it follows like, like, yeah, if that is what you're doing, you should get rid of that. But you shouldn't get rid of technology, like technology is not going away in the world that we're preparing these kids for and these new skills that that we need. So I don't know, I'm about to go down a whole rabbit hole around, maybe we need to get rid of the maybe we need to let the testing systems in which force and pigeonhole our educators like into teaching and thinking that they can't do these other things. Maybe we need to let those things go away. But anyway, I just think it's really interesting and a good thing for all of our educators to think about, what are those things that like, if you can't directly connect it to really great success stories for your staff, for your students for the community? If you can't explain exactly why it started, why it still is taking place in the way it is, then you should at the very least have a conversation around getting rid of it or changing it right. So something new and better can come to fruition.

Jon Smith: 13:56

Absolutely. So I have two thoughts. So the one first off you were you were talking and it made me think of, I think it was Holly Clark was we are chat with Holly Clark one day. And she was talking about this idea of tech fatigue, right. And I think that's kind of where teachers are like, well, we just want to we don't want to use technology anymore. We want to go back to the way it was and 50s or whatever, right? Like, we're just gonna go back because it was easier than trying to learn all this technology. I think the issue for me at least isn't that it's not I don't think it's real. I don't think it's true tech fatigue, right. I don't think the kids are tired of tech, because when they leave school, they're still going to Instagram, they're still going to tick tock, they're still doing stuff. So not tired of tech. I think you're tired of the way it's being used. Yeah. Right. So I think that again, this is a perfect kind of segue, right? Like, okay, if my kids are tired of technology, or if they're tired of it, or if I'm tired of it, then maybe I'm not using it in the right way. Right. That's maybe that's the kind of thought that I need to fix and change. And I think the other thing that you mentioned too, you know, as we're As we're looking at things, I think sometimes as, as teachers, we, we don't give our ourselves again permission to move on, right? Like, we've done it this way for 10 years, it's not getting any better. But I'm not going to quit, right? Like, I'm going to stick with this until it works, right. And so that may be good in some situations. But it's, it may not be good in a lot of situations. And I think sometimes you have to give yourself permission to say, You know what, I tried something, I tried it again, it still isn't quite working. Maybe there were some sex successes with and maybe there were lots of failures with it or something. But I can take the good pieces and move them into a new idea and get rid of the bad ones. Get rid of the ideas that didn't work and that and hopefully that moves you forward in some way.

Katie Ritter: 15:45

Yeah, one, I appreciate that teacher who looked at you. And you know, that was maybe not the most comfortable thing for her to say it clearly wasn't the most comfortable thing for you to hear until she fully flushed out the thought process but good for her for, you know, challenging you in a really productive, kind and caring way to make you reconsider how you were approaching something. So I think that might lead us into our next question that Justin has. But before we dive into that, we're going to take a super quick break from our sponsors.

Justin Thomas: 16:22

Calling on instructional technology coaches Forward Edge has launched a new hub for coaches to find strategies and resources to use for their coaching the ED EDU Coach Network provides a place for instructional coaches to come together for Coach specific professional development, building a community and finding mentorship moving through the school year, the network provides a place to casually seek resources for joining with book clubs, Twitter, chats, webinars and workshops. Along with much more, join the EDU Coach Network by going to Ed edu Coach network.com and join the coach community today. As your badges the anytime anywhere badging program to learn edtech tools and strategies is now open for individuals to sign up. Whether you're an instructional coach looking for new ideas to share or teacher wanting to implement more technology in your classroom. Edu badges is the answer. Individuals can now sign up for both the free or premium account by visiting edgy badges.com. And as a listener of the podcast, you can get $20 off your premium account by using promo code podcast. So visit edgy badges.com and begin earning your badges. Alright, welcome back, Justin Thomas, Dr. Katie Ritter, and we're here with John Smith from Book Creator. And we are having an ed tech eulogy right now in terms of figuring out the fact that sometimes we might actually need some of these practices and ideas and things that we've done for so long to actually just die out and give rebirth to something that is new. So we talked a little bit about John's story and how he got on this topic. But let's look at what are some ways that a coach should evaluate their offerings in a way to help them understand what is actually something that they should keep? And maybe something they should let die? Yeah, I

Jon Smith: 17:59

mean, I struggled with this one a little bit, right? When I was thinking about this kind of thought. And I think first off, I think it has to be relevant. Right? Like, whatever it is that you're that you're working on, or whatever you're teaching or whatever you're helping somebody through. It has to be relevant. I can't continue to talk about, you know, technology tools that are outdated or don't work on modern computers, or don't work on Chromebooks, or, you know, like, whatever, I can't continue to use those old tools, right? I'm not going to pull out the abacus, you know, in my calculus class, because it worked 100 years ago, 200 years ago, right? I'm going to move with the times. And I think that that's the first thing, right? So as we're coaching as we're, we're talking, you know, looking at current research and current ideas around student learning, and district goals, which are changing, right all the time, I think those are the things that we need to keep in mind, right? The relevance of that kind of stuff and keep it, keep it current. And the same thing with with teacher goals, right? So we've got district goals, but teachers have goals too, right? And students have goals. So what do I want to get out of my class are what do I want to get out of my students? And how can you know how can this idea of moving away from some of the older stuff, a dress that address the new goals and dress the new procedures and current events and things like that, that are going on in the world?

Katie Ritter: 19:30

Well, John, that makes me think so I you know, I think like some really tangible advice that I you know, based on what you're saying that I might give to our listeners, I know our team, we have a feedback form that we all use and and give and, you know, ask teachers to tell anytime we give professional development in a group setting. Then we also have a different one for coaching cycles. And both of them have a you know, they're super short and sweet. specially the PD feedback one, but there's a question on there just a quick scale one to five, like, I will, you know, agree strongly, strongly agree, strongly disagree, I will use this information with my students or respective stakeholder group. And we are constantly looking at that. And our coaches are always looking at that feedback that they get after they deliver PD. Because that's a an immediate, quick pulse way, you know, people might not always tell you, you might not always have those great champions in your corner and in your network, who are willing to, like professionally help you and challenge you. So not everyone's just going to be forthcoming. So you can't expect that. And, you know, you may not be able to be in every classroom every day to understand what they're actually taking back and implementing But in thinking through the ways that you solicit feedback, and creating sort of a constant pulse check on what you're doing with the teachers and knowing, you know, obviously, if it's a teacher audience, are they actually going to use this with their students? Do they actually feel like it's relevant, and they're excited? And that can be a really quick way in the moment to give you as the coach feedback on hey, I'm missing the mark a little bit or, you know, no one's showing up to crow nuts, or it's just my same people who are coming. Right. So yeah, good ideas there. So okay, um, John, we are, it's a short episode today with just a handful of kind of pre prepared questions. But before as you know, because you've been here before we end every episode on top three tips. And sorry, loyal listeners, it's me, not just in this time, Justin's way more fun to listen, go into it. But before we move into top three tips, is there anything kind of outside of that, that you want to kind of take this and speak to before we kind of wrap up with those tips?

Jon Smith: 21:48

Yeah, so I did have two other ideas that I kind of wanted to kind of mention. So I think one of the things again, as teachers, coaches, one of the things we look at, a lot of times we look at lessons, and we look at things in kind of a post mortem kind of way. So we're keeping along with the death theme here, right, we look at, we look at things after it died, right? We're like, oh, that lesson was awful. What can I do now? Right? And so, and then a lot of times, we don't really fix it until like the next year when we teach that lesson again. Right? So there's a lot of time that goes in between that. And then the next year comes around, and maybe you forgot the things that you didn't like, and you just do it again. Yeah, right. So one of the ideas that I really have started to kind of think about, and we started doing this in the last couple of years that I was at the high school, as we started looking at lessons pre mortem. So so we looked at him before the lesson had a chance to die. And what I thought was really nice. And I think it's a great for coaching, I think it's great for content teams, I think it's great for mixed teams, right? We did this at the high school with people from all kinds of different grades and, and curriculum areas. But the teachers would get a chance to go up and say, here's the lesson I'm going to teach in a couple of weeks. And here's what I'm planning on doing. Right. And so we would all just kind of sit back and listen. And then we had a whole series of questions that we would ask for clarification. You know, then we'd say, well, what if you tried this? What if you did this? How about this, that kind of stuff. And so we we tweaked and massaged the lesson ahead of time. And then hopefully, we were able to fix it before the lesson had a chance to die. And so hence the term pre mortem, right. So it was again, kind of a fun thought process. But I thought I'm

Katie Ritter: 23:34

curious. Yeah, no, I'm glad you did. I'm curious. If you could, I want to dig into that structure in case we've got coaches listening, that maybe want to kind of take that idea back to their school. So you say, a teacher had an opportunity to present this lesson ahead, you know, to a group of their peers ahead of actually teaching it to students. What did that look like? What was the space? Were you doing? Like PLCs? Was it a department meeting? Was it meet with the coach? And so it was really just like more of a one on one with teacher coach? What what did that structure actually look like to facilitate that type of feedback and reflection? pre pre reflection, I guess with

Jon Smith: 24:14

reflection? Yeah. I'm not very good with reflection. I can even reach my toes. But anyway, no, the the so the idea was when we first started it, we got grade level teams together in the morning before the before the students arrived. We didn't have coaches in our school the way like that most schools have now we didn't have those. So we had it was basically just, you know, department or grade level teams. But it was grade level teams that were mixed, right? So you'd have the social status team, you'd have the the ninth grade social studies teacher ninth grade math teachers, the ninth grade science teachers, all in a room. And it was it was a little scary, right at first because it was like Well, who's gonna who's gonna Go up there first as a high school teacher to show their lesson to other high school teachers, right? Because it was like, Nah, we will scare. So I don't remember whoever did it first, but it was a real safe space, right? And so the idea was, as a teacher, before you plan your lesson, reflecting on your students, what are they good at? What are they not good at? What do you know about your kids, right, talking about your kids, then designing your lesson. And so then the teacher would actually get up in front of us not actually teach the whole lesson, right, but just kind of outline it and say, This is what we're going to do. First, here's the thing that we're gonna do, here's the activity that we do. Here's the the tests that it's going to be at the end of this kind of process, you know, like, whatever, just kind of go through all of the different bits and pieces. And then the rules were that as the teachers presenting this, like, we're not allowed to talk, right? Like, Nobody's allowed to be like, sounds like a crappy idea, right? Like, Nobody's allowed to heckle that. Just sit and listen. Yeah, that's Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then furiously taking notes, right, like taking notes on everything that's going on. And then the design team or the group of people that were sitting here, then we start asking clarifying questions, like, I'm not suggestions, right? No, no, aha moments, none of that. Just clarifying questions. So if a teacher said, we're going to do this activity, I might say, like, what is the product? You mentioned that your kids are making a product at the end of this? What is that product? Right? Like, what tech tools? Are you using for that product? What? You know, how are you going? How are the students going to show mastery or you know, whatever the case may be, we would ask those clarifying questions, then the person who was presenting would answer the questions. And then people again, furiously taking notes and that kind of stuff. And then we offered as a team, we offered positive feedback only. Right? We just said, okay, here are the things that I love about your lesson. Have at it. And then after we hit you with all the kindness and all the fun stuff, right, and all the things that we loved about the lesson, then that's when we started saying, maybe here are some other ideas that could help increase student engagement help increase success with your lesson, right? And sometimes it was teachers who were like, listen, I know who's in your class. I know, five of those kids. And I know for a fact that those five kids really love what a basketball, baseball or whatever. So when you're talking stats and math, maybe you want to tie that into some fantasy sports to really get those five kids, because if you don't, they're gonna make your life miserable, right? Like, if they're not bought into it, maybe they're gonna make your life miserable. So maybe you might want to try something like this. And the teacher was like, Ah, okay, cool, right? And then the teacher after listening to all of these, aha, those what ifs, how about kind of moments, then the teacher can respond and say, Ah, I like the idea of fantasy baseball. But I don't know anything about it. Right? And so then that helps open up the door where coaches can come in and say, Oh, hey, do you know anything about fantasy sports? No worries, because guess what, you know, John does? Katie understands it. So why don't they? Why don't you talk to them about it? You know, so that kind of stuff. So that's kind of how it worked. And then the teacher went off and did the lesson. And then at the next meeting, that teacher would do a quick recap and say, here's what was successful. Here's what didn't quite work, you know, and, or this idea really changed my life. Because last year, I didn't do something like that. And this year, I did. And so then they would start and then the new teacher would come in and do the whole process again. And we did this every week. I love that so

Katie Ritter: 28:27

much. I think a Justin skeptical that you said I know fantasy. But I love it so much. It just, you know, it makes me think of our season opener this season with Jimmy Costas and just talking about like, everyone's a coach. And like, you guys really created that culture of a team of educators coaching and supporting one another. I think, an idea like that, in some capacity would just be so wonderful in terms of like creating really sustainable, you know, like teacher leadership teams, and like really helping to ripple effect what what the coach can do, and especially our coaches who might be in really big districts, and I just say immediately thought, like, golly, I wonder like, I would have taken advantage of that so much before observations to have a community of my peers with more experience and run through my plan with them, it would have made everything feel so much less intimidating, and made me feel all the more confident. And I could just see that, you know, if that's where I started, maybe then, you know, building and expanding well beyond that. So I love that idea.

Jon Smith: 29:39

Well, if we did something similar to this on a Twitter chat once, right, and it was really funny because we were kind of going through this idea in this process on a Twitter chat. And there was like a kindergarten teacher or no, sorry, there was an AP, I was like, Who has the first question, right? And it was an AP government teacher. And I was like, oh, Oh gosh, like, I was like, this is the first question I'm going to get from the AP government guy, right? I'm like, oh, no, I was like, this is not going to be good. And so he asked this question about how he can make a lesson better. And I was like, I was waiting for crickets. Right? Like, I was like, this isn't this isn't good, because I didn't even have any answers, right? Well, the Twitter chat person, the first person to respond was a kindergarten teacher. And I was like, let's see how this goes. Right? And the idea was phenomenal, right? And the government teacher was like, he caught me the next day in school. He's like, Dude, I was part of the Twitter chat last night. He's like, and I was like, I know, I was like, You scare me when you answered your ask your first question. That was like, because I was like, I thought you were just gonna kill the whole Twitter chat, right? And he started laughing. And he goes, but the teacher, the kindergarten teacher idea, he goes, That was unbelievable, I never would have thought of that. And so what I love about this idea is that you get a room full of people. And if you're the AP calculus teacher, and you're out there talking about your lesson, you never would have thought or you never would have asked, right, the cosmetology teacher to have an idea for how to improve your AP Calculus class. You never you never would have thought that right? And if you're sitting there going, like, oh, that's kind of rude. But it's true, right? Like, if I'm an AP calculus teacher, I'm not running into the cosmetology teacher to think that, you know, that they might have a good answer. But sometimes they do, because they're just, they're just outside of your box enough, that they're gonna be like, Oh, well, have you ever thought about this? Right? And it's just, it just gives you that fresh kind of perspective. And I think that's what's really powerful about this is that they're your peers. And they're people that you'll talk to at lunch, there are people that you'll talk to after school, but you're not going to ask them curriculum questions on a normal basis. Because that's, that's not what they teach. Yeah, but it really it's really cool, because the whole lot of stuff comes out of it.

Katie Ritter: 31:51

Yeah, I love it. And I'm curious, did you happen to call it maybe like, class plans with crow nuts?

Jon Smith: 31:58

I did. But I think I think that was cool. No, I think what did we I don't even know what we call it. Oh, design team meetings, I think is what we called them. But yeah, so it definitely wasn't as catchy as you know, classroom Coronavirus or class, you know, classroom lesson Cronus or whatever. So yeah, it was not catchy. Yeah, I

Katie Ritter: 32:16

love it. That was a slam dunk idea. And you said, when I asked you if you had anything else, you said two things before we move into your top three tips. Did that cover both of them? Or did you have?

Jon Smith: 32:26

I think so? No, no, it was Yeah. So

Katie Ritter: 32:28

yes, with confidence if you forgot, yes.

Jon Smith: 32:31

The idea of post mortem versus pre mortem. So those two those two pieces was the was the idea. So yeah,

Justin Thomas: 32:39

I gotta say something real quick, though. Just a reminder, the first two episodes prior to this one all about elementary. So maybe you can get some ideas there for your secondary, if you're in that spot, based off what John said. So

Jon Smith: 32:51

Oh, absolutely. And I, I was trying not to do too many too many Book Creator plugs in this one. But I have to say, like, whenever I'm doing a webinar on Book Creator, right? I always tell people, one of my favorite places to go is the Discover section, because it's just filled with student books that kids make. And every time I teach a high school group, I'm always like, hey, go down and check out the kindergarten books. I don't care what you think. I don't care what you know, what if you think it's not relative, or related to your content at all, go check out the kindergarten books. It's amazing. And I say same thing to kindergarten teachers. I was like, I don't care if you teach AP government or not, go check out the government books, because it might give you an idea of something that you can use in your classroom. All right,

Katie Ritter: 33:31

John. Well, if you want to move into, we'll move into kind of the last question here of your top three tips for helping educators and coaches get comfortable burying some old practices that they

Justin Thomas: 33:46

have lay him to rest. Yeah,

Jon Smith: 33:48

lay them to rest. Again, I think that one of the biggest pieces, is really to focus on what was successful. Alright, so I think again, too often, even even personally, right, something goes wrong. And you really focus on the bad parts of it. And even if it's bad, there's always something that you can look at to find success. And I think that that's a that's an important piece, right. And I think the other the other part of that the second piece would be to actually listen to yourself, right? So like, I can sit here and say this all I want, but you know, when my son comes home, and he's a middle school kid, and if he frustrates me, I have to look at the successes, right? Like I have to just think about, not all the negative stuff, I got to think about some things that are that are positive, right, and really focus on those. So I think you know, giving yourself permission to focus on the success is okay, you're allowed to do that. And you're allowed to think about that. And I also think, as the flip side of that, focus on the failures, right? Like, what, what went wrong, and how can and that's okay, we my wife and I talk to my kids about this all the time. It's okay if you fail but just don't do it again. Right? Like, like, can you learn from the mistake? Don't if this is the piece that caused the problem, don't repeat that over and over again. Absolutely take a look at the failures, accept it, and move past it. And I think that that's, you know, that's an that's an important piece, you know, just just doing that. And, and I guess the third piece would be that, again, not looking at death as a bad thing. But looking at it as a success, right or a celebration, right? Not necessarily a sign of growth. It's a sign of growth. Absolutely. I just think that's important. And I guess the last thing I just I mentioned for you said, three, I'm gonna give you a fourth so sorry, though, the one that's a bonus thing. I think that some people who are listening right now are probably like, what is that list? Like? What are the things in education that just need to die? Like, give me the list? John, I want the answers. And you're gonna believe how many people I've had email me that and say, give me what's the list? Right? I want the list of things that need to die? And the answer is, I'm not going to give you a list, right? Because my list is different than Justin's list. Justin's list is different than Katie's list, Katie's list is different, everybody else's list. The point is that we all have a list, right? Like, if we sit back and think about it, we all we all have that list. So my list is very personal to me, your list is very personal to you. And everybody else's list is very personal to their classrooms and their situations, right, personally and professionally. So I can't tell you what needs to die in your classroom, I can't tell you that you have to figure that out on your own. And that's kind of a cop out, because I'm not gonna give you the answers. But it's the truth. And that think that's part of the growth is thinking and reflecting on that and trying to figure out what those what those things are.

Katie Ritter: 36:53

Yeah, well, in the spirit of a bonus, I want to add one that, you know, your initial story just kind of inspired me, I would just also encourage, especially our coaches, you know, listening, don't be afraid to like, question your colleagues write just in a really supporting supportive way. But maybe that's just a good question to keep in your back pocket as you're having conversations. Like, what if you totally reinvented this? What if, what if you didn't do this anymore? And you had the opportunity to like, think it up from scratch? What would you do? How would you do it? Right? I think, you know, you were fortunate enough to have that colleague who planted that seed to force you to challenge you to think outside that box. So I think we have a good audience to help our educators do that. Yeah. Awesome.

Justin Thomas: 37:38

Well, John, this has been a fascinating, fascinating episode, as it always is, with you with all your ideas and everything like that, that you have. And we got all sorts of tips here, too. So we went beyond the top three tips, you gave a bonus tip, and even Katie jumped in with the bonus tip. So

Katie Ritter: 37:55

plan just really kind of stole and repurpose part of John's story. So it's really his hand double bonus.

Justin Thomas: 38:01

double bonus.

Jon Smith: 38:03

That's the way it works. Right? That's the way it's supposed to work.

Justin Thomas: 38:06

Absolutely. Well, John, thank you again for joining us here on the restart recharge podcast with this fun episode. You know, as Katie kind of said, when we met initially with Brooke and I were kind of talking through it, were like, This was really cool. And then I was like, I gotta figure out how to explain it well enough to what you did for Brooke and I had to explain it to her. So she'd be like, What is going on with this? So I guess they did a decent job since she was like, Yeah, that might work. So I'm glad that you were willing to share this with us here on the podcast.

Jon Smith: 38:37

I did this talk once in front of about 3000 people and I remember going up on stage and saying you know my name is John Smith, blah blah blah blah. And I'm completely fascinated with death and like the whole room was just like, what are we in for like what is this and I was like it's okay, I'm alright Trust me I'm fine. So anyway, yeah, no, I I appreciate you give me the opportunity to kind of you know muddle through this and explain my my weird thought processes on things but yeah,

Katie Ritter: 39:05

thanks John. Any conferences that you're going to be at over the summer or any places you'll be? Gosh, yeah, listeners a heads up?

Jon Smith: 39:13

Yeah, absolutely. So summer, first will be st. We will be at st will have a big booth which will be fun. So if you're a creator and you love us and you want to come Pat us on the back and tell us how cool we are great. If you don't then don't go to St. Go somewhere else. No, I'm kidding. If you let that die out. If you have questions, concerns or things you want to know about Book Creator, come see us in St. That'd be awesome. Other than that, I'm trying to think what else is happening in the summer I'm going to be doing some school visit so I'll be in Florida. I'll be in New York. I'll be in Pennsylvania. I will be in maybe Colorado, I think so. Lots of lots of stuff, so I'll be kind of around. We will be at the lights conference. In October in New York, which we haven't been to before, and until we get to like FTTC and TCA, it kind of takes us to the end of 2023

Katie Ritter: 40:11

I suppose. So you're gonna be everywhere. We look forward to seeing you. And thanks again for being on the pod today.

Jon Smith: 40:16

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Justin Thomas: 40:17

Awesome. Well, kind of speaking a little bit to is the, we will actually back using the interactive Google for Education adaptive learning lab. So we are actually going to have Angela alignment and Jamie Clausius is going to join us to talk a little bit more about what that all entails because they've been doing traveling version of that throughout the entire school year. But we'll be back in st doing that in porn education. So that's gonna be really exciting. And you can get a little kind of teaser from the restore recharge podcast before heading to SD

Katie Ritter: 40:45

so be sure to subscribe to restart recharge wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on all the social media, our our coach caps

Justin Thomas: 40:54

and as always, feel free to reach out to us and let us know any topics that you would like us to discuss. We happy to do so here on the podcast. Some press the restart button recharging coaching batteries and leave feeling equipped and inspired to coach fearlessly with a restart recharge podcast,

Katie Ritter: 41:08

A tech coach collective guidance. Nailed it, John. Thanks again so much. It's always nice to have your energy on the podcast and thanks again for being patient with all my craziness, the very beginning.

Jon Smith: 41:24

It's all good. I appreciate it. I was I was halfway for my kids to come home and the dog to start barking so I kept texting my wife being like don't forget a podcast and recording right