401 - Bite Sized Learning

Welcome to our first episode of Season 4 of Restart Recharge! This time we navigate beyond the surface of bite-sized learning to explore the transformative world of micro-credentialing in K-12 education. Join us as we delve into a comprehensive discussion with Tom Burton, CEO of We Empower LLC and former Superintendent of Princeton City Schools, who brings his rich expertise and innovative thinking to our conversation.

This episode goes beyond conventional teaching strategies, addressing key issues such as the role of motivation in educational success, the challenges and opportunities of micro-credentialing for teachers, and how these approaches impact both student learning and educator professional development. Our discussion with Tom Burton illuminates the practicalities and philosophical aspects of modern education, providing invaluable insights for teachers, instructional coaches, and education enthusiasts.

Tune in for a dynamic dialogue filled with practical advice, thought-provoking questions, and inspirational messages. Whether you're an educator looking to enhance your teaching methods or someone passionate about the future of education, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and perspective.

Follow Tom on Social Media!
Twitter: TBurton_Empower
Instagram: TDBempower


Podcast Team
Hosts- Katie  Ritter & Matthäus Huelse
Editing Team- Michael Roush, Alyssa Faubion, Matthäus Huelse
Social Media/ Promo Team- Alyssa Faubion
Producer- Matthäus Huelse

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Transcript

Matthaeus: 0:00

Welcome back to season four of Restart Recharge. We are back for another season and today we will be diving into the dynamic world of bite sized learning in K 12 education. As instructional coaches, staying abreast of innovative teaching strategies is paramount. In this episode, we're unpacking the essence of bite sized learning exploring its profound impact on both student learning and teacher professional development. We're sharing practical insights, success stories, and invaluable tools to help you seamlessly integrate bite sized learning into your educational practices. Whether you are new to this concept or looking to refine your approach, join us as we navigate the nuances of bite sized learning, ensuring that every minute of learning is both engaging and impactful. Today we're thrilled to have Tom Burton with us. The esteemed CEO of we empower LLC and former superintendent of Princeton City schools as our guests with a storied 36 year career in education. Tom is celebrated for his dynamic leadership and unwavering commitment to student empowerment and teacher development. His accolades include the Innovative Superintendent Award and the honor of Tom Burton Days in Ohio, highlight his profound impact on education as a passionate advocate for equitable education and a respected national speaker. Tom brings invaluable insights into the transformative power of bite sized learning and K 12 education. We're honored to have you with us today.

Katie Ritter: 1:24

Welcome, Tom.

Tom Burton: 1:25

Yeah, I got to get I have to get that guy. I don't even know what you're talking about. That sounded pretty good. Thanks. Thanks guys. Thank you. Hey, I'm super excited to be here. And delve into this really important concept. The bite size learning. I think sometimes we take big chunks and we mistakes along the way. So I'm excited to be here.

Katie Ritter: 1:44

Yeah, and we're excited to have you as our this is our fourth season, right, Matthaeus? Yeah, so you're the first episode of our fourth season that we're getting started. And so just to give you just really quick background of some of the conversations we've been having on the pod and any first time listeners that are joining us for season four, we, we kind of wrapped up season three with some conversations around how coaches are seem to be struggling with providing and finding time for professional development lately. With kind of teacher burnout and, and teachers just being overwhelmed with what they're, what's on their plate right now. Little in service time, tips and tricks that, that used to work really well for finding time for PD just doesn't seem to be landing the same. So we kind of wrapped up season three, just sort of challenging our listeners. to think about really reinventing PD almost and, and finding new ways that are going to work for our adult learners. With the, the all of the stressors and the workload around them, what, what do we need to do differently so that we can continue to provide these great opportunities? So that's where we thought this episode with you Tom might be a great way to kick off season four. Because we know you know, just kind of shameless plug for us here at Forward Edge, but we know we've worked very closely with Tom when he was superintendent at Princeton City Schools. And so we know that you just did some really transformational, wonderful things at that district. One of them being partnering with us to bring our micro credentialing program EdgeU badges. But I do just want to say this, this episode is not to sell that program. It's to talk about the concept behind it. So whether somebody is looking at our program or doing their own in their school, I think there's some really great tips and nuggets that they'll be able to get from, from your wisdom and your experience with micro credentialing and this concept of bite sized learning for for teachers. So I'll kind of kick it off first and before we dive in specifically to the bite sized learning or the micro credentials. Tom, I think just your perspective speaking around the country and working with administrators all over the country. I'd love to just kind of tap into that wisdom a little bit and and what conversations have have you had or what trends are you seeing around the shifts in. And in these changing needs of our teachers.

Tom Burton: 4:14

Sure. Well and again, I so appreciate this really kind of focused work with instructional coaches. I think that sometimes the superintendents, we we certainly have great value for each employee when you look specifically at instructional coaches, sometimes. We let them on their own and so I love this specificity of getting down to the nitty gritty with professional development, not only for instructional coaches, but how they can help deliver that. So that's awesome. So, I was just most recently in Long Beach. I was there Friday. I spoke for the great Linwood unified school district. And while it was, it was a PD day, there's no question, but I did this little exercise. I'd like to do right now with you. Is that okay? All right.

Katie Ritter: 5:00

Yeah. As long as you don't make him start getting up and jumping around doing jumping jacks because it's hot in this room.

Matthaeus: 5:05

Yeah. That's not the reason we added cameras.

Katie Ritter: 5:07

I need more of a mental exercise.

Tom Burton: 5:09

Listen, you guys know me. I may do that, but not today. All right. So this is what I'd like you to do. I'm going to ask you three very quick questions. No matter what question it is, I want the very first thing you think about to write down. All right. All right. So, Katie, if I would say, what, what car are you thinking about right now? Real quick. What car are you thinking about? Tell me.

Katie Ritter: 5:28

You want me to say it out loud?

Tom Burton: 5:29

Yep. Yep. What car? Okay.

Katie Ritter: 5:31

A Porsche Boxster.

Tom Burton: 5:32

Okay. Porsche Boxster. Okay. Excellent. Excellent. So I'm going to ask you 3 quick questions. Write it down. Don't share your answers. Okay. You ready? Here we go. What color are you thinking about? What flower are you thinking about? What piece of household furniture, color, flower, household furniture, really quick. Hurry up. Hurry up. First thought, put your pen down. Then I know you're done. Color, color, flower, piece of household furniture. Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. Very first thought. Okay, you're done. Matthaeus, you done?

Matthaeus: 6:02

I think so.

Tom Burton: 6:03

Okay. All right. Did either one of you by chance choose red or blue?

Katie Ritter: 6:08

No.

Tom Burton: 6:09

Did either one of you choose rose, tulip, or daisy?

Matthaeus: 6:13

No.

Tom Burton: 6:15

Did either one of you choose couch, love, seat, or chair?

Katie Ritter: 6:19

Yes.

Matthaeus: 6:19

No.

Tom Burton: 6:20

Okay. So this is what this shows. Okay. Now I did this. I've done this. I don't know. Seems like a thousand times, but for sure over a hundred times. I've done this. Now, normally what you would see is well, like, for sure. I normally get 1 out of 3 for everybody typically, but there's always the select few. Of people that, you know, they, I'm like Matthaeus, what flower did you choose?

Matthaeus: 6:48

Sunflower.

Tom Burton: 6:50

Sunflower.

Katie Ritter: 6:50

Oh, that's a happy little flower this morning.

Matthaeus: 6:52

Yeah.

Tom Burton: 6:54

And, and Katie, what color did you choose?

Katie Ritter: 6:57

Pink. Duh.

Tom Burton: 6:58

Pink. Duh. Of course. So, so when you think about how we traditionally think, like 80 percent of the people I do this with, this works way better in a bigger crowd, but let me tell you what happened, 80 percent of the people stood up when I said red or blue. And then another 10 percent joined them when I said rose Tulip or Daisy, and then about 5 percent of the last people they stood up when I said couch, love seat, or chair. It's the way we traditionally think and we need to think differently. And so the trend that I see is that we're still not thinking differently. We have to get outside our comfort zone and push the way that we traditionally deliver professional development, the way that we traditionally interact with learning in and of itself. And it's, it sounds so easy to say, but it's not easy to do in practice. Like, we talk about being innovative, creative, and let's, you know, let's be transformational. We say that that's what we believe, but our behavior doesn't change. So the biggest trend I see is that our behavior doesn't always match up with what we say we believe in. Especially when it comes to professional development, because we don't have enough time in the course of the day, in the course of a month, a semester, a year for professional development. So that time we do have, A, has to be valued differently. And then B, we have to come up with different ways to be able to live on demand professional development.

Katie Ritter: 8:37

I love it. Yeah, I think you're Great little quote snippets right there.

Matthaeus: 8:40

Absolutely. Yeah, there's all kinds of highlights.

Katie Ritter: 8:45

Awesome.

Matthaeus: 8:45

So you mentioned behavior, Why do you think that is? I mean, we do know the best practices. We do know where to go, but why is it that our behavior is not changing? Do you think we're just stuck in our ways in the sense? Is it because we're hanging on to things that we're comfortable with?

Tom Burton: 9:00

Yeah, so, you know, the comfort level is something that when people get to a certain place. You know, it is hard. There's, there's this great book. It's called change is good. You go first. Everybody loves change until they have to change. So, and, you know, the fact of the matter is, I think sometimes you make excuses for ourselves and we say things like, well, it's just easier if you do it this way, because then I'll have more time to do other things. But really what happens sometimes when we look at professional development is we actually are own worst enemies by not looking at structures differently. And an example is this the very 1st year when I was at Princeton, we had a professional development day. The very last day of school, the very last day of school. And I remember thinking, boy, we have to do something differently. So why don't we do like a conference and we'll have the teachers, the experts deliver professional development. We'll have administrators. We'll bring in some speakers from the outside and literally everybody looked at me. Like, I was crazy. Which side note I am, but for other reasons, so I'm really kind of toppling the way that we traditionally would do things. We actually put out proposals. We had, like, 42 sessions by teachers. By administrators, and it was professional development for staff by staff and it was very, very different. And what I heard was. We don't have enough time to put it together. People aren't going to do it. Excuse, excuse, excuse, excuse. And some of them were valid. I don't want to be dismissive, but I do feel like that's the way that we traditionally think it's just easier because it's easier. We're going to do what we've always done. But what I say is, you always do what you've always done. You always get what you always got, which isn't always good. So, if we're not happy with professional development, we need to do things differently and topple the way that we traditionally think.

Katie Ritter: 11:07

Yeah, absolutely. So thinking of how what you did differently share some of the bright spots, right? So you just shared one right just switching up You know when you do the PD and how you do it and who it's for and who's presenting but share some of the other Bright spots what else worked when you were at Princeton when you thinking about let's do this PD differently

Tom Burton: 11:27

Sure. And you know what, this, this is always the time when you know, I'm blessed to be able to speak around the country. I just told you about being in California. I'm in Florida and Texas and Utah. It's crazy. What an unbelievable opportunity to be able to help people. But when I speak, sometimes I make people a little bit uncomfortable. I'm not really trying to do. So, as you badges, I did not want to do. It was expensive from where we were EdgeU badges was something that I'm like, well, can you do this? Can you do that? And as kind of a newer product at that point, that answer was no. So I was like, met with Jeff Langdon and I'm like, yeah, sure, you know, I'll consider it or whatever. But man, oh man, when we dug into it, it was unbelievable. And that I think it was really transformational for us because it was PD on demand. I talked about that earlier. And being able to have teachers when they want to learn. Be able to learn is a game changer. Look, we learned so much stuff through the pandemic and sometimes, you know, Matthaeus, you were like, stuck in their ways earlier. I say this, I'm talking specifically about me. Sometimes I was stuck on stupid. I don't know why on earth I didn't just embrace that right away. I should have embraced that because I was always about choice, always about allowing people an opportunity to, like, learn differently, learn uniquely, all that stuff. So, as you badgers major for us, and allowed us to be able to again, not only have this great professional development when they wanted it, but when people were struggling, think about the support that on demand PD does. I'm struggling right now and it may be like 930 at night. So this is what we normally expect people to do. Well, you know what? Maybe I'll shoot an email out to our PD committee to see if anybody knows where I can get a resource. So I may send it out. Well, I'm motivated, inspired. I'm ready to go with PD, but yet, if I don't have that way to be able to access that information, I'm taking all that inspiration all that action. I'm getting ready to do my behavior. My behavior being different and we're putting on the back shelf. You can't do that So that was one thing that we did that I know is very very helpful and quite frankly We didn't have enough licenses and you know again when you talk about traditional thought I was making excuses

Katie Ritter: 14:08

That's a good point tom about it being there when you're ready and when you have that motivation just I mean outside like If I when i'm motivated to clean my closet, which is far and few between I better do it right then and there because that Motivation is going to leave me quick, right? And so I make a lot of progress when i'm motivated But if i'm not ready to go or i'm busy or something else comes up then that motivation's gone And I don't get to it for another few weeks. So I think that's a that hit home how you said that about because I think we all are like that or in in one way or another right when you're motivated you're ready you can You could go a lot further and be a lot more productive when you're in that right head space at that moment. So having something available, that does provide the choice, I think, is, is a really great point there.

Matthaeus: 14:53

You mentioned that you were a little hesitant about micro credentialing. What were your , exact thoughts that you thought, that made you think, maybe, maybe that's not the way to go?

Tom Burton: 15:02

Red, rose, and couch. Because there's the traditional way that we think, right? It's going to be another thing for teachers. What about onboarding? What about, I mean, 1000 different things making excuses just like I told you, right? The teachers weren't going to have enough sessions people didn't want to do it on the last day. It was all these reasons why not to do Viking University again the way that we traditionally think. So I don't have a really good answer to it. I use money as an excuse. And we do that far too often in education. And the other thing, too, is, let me be really, really clear. On demand, professional development is critical, but there's a word that I did not say that makes it come alive. But before I do that, let me ask you a question in this sentence. What is the word that is the biggest problem he or she as a teacher her or she. Is a poor lecturer when delivering instruction? What one word jumps out at you the most as problematic

Katie Ritter: 16:21

Lecture?

Matthaeus: 16:21

"Is" because it seems so finite determined?

Tom Burton: 16:25

Okay. So both great answers and both dreadfully wrong.

Matthaeus: 16:31

Oh God. Right. You're testing us. Yeah. I don't think I've ever been tested.

Katie Ritter: 16:36

Monday morning, early.

Tom Burton: 16:38

Hey, let's go. First of the year and all that. All right. So, so here's the, here's the thing gang. We know we've been in lectures that have been so engaging, that captivate the story, the, the conclusion, the how you want to do things differently. And oh, my goodness. The learningng was exponential. The word was poor.'cause if he or she is a great lecturer while delivering instruction now you probably wanto see what the heck that means. What that, what that looks like. So I say that to say this, on demand quality, professional development is critical and that's what EdgeU badges is. So when you look at that, like there's so much time and effort.'cause I remember when I first got the sample. You know, the trial, I mean, I looked at, I looked at some stuff and didn't go deep enough to see the quality and after doing that, man, game changing.

Katie Ritter: 17:41

Yeah, and I think just for folks who are listening who don't have EdgeU badges, but they're interested in, you know, again, whether it's our program or it's. You know, doing something themselves similar within their district, the kind of core concepts that are in the program. One is teacher choice, right? It's the, it's the level of you know, there's over 270 individual badges that teachers can choose from. They're truly bite sized. Most of them only take about 45 minutes to an hour for a teacher to complete. Every one of them, after they've learned the skill, it requires that they actually implement it. Right? So they're actually going back. The ROI is there for districts from, again, whether it's our program or you're paying your own coaches to develop badges. The ROI is there on the time spent creating. The material because the teachers actually have to go back and use the skills that they've learned. They submit evidence and then we provide feedback. So there's a real person reviewing every single badge and giving really specific feedback that we talk about in education all the time. How important it is to to learning is to receive that feedback. Within, you know, we do it within 1 to 3 business days. So it's really fast. They get an opportunity to resubmit so they can they can. You know, build on that learning if they needed to, if they missed the mark and they can resubmit to ultimately earn the digital badge that they get that signals that they do, in fact, have the skill and then each badge has points where they can earn contact hours or graduate credit. So, there's kind of that, that motivator for our adult learners that they need. We've got a lot of folks who are just intrinsically motivated. They want to get better, but time is precious, right? We, we, none of us have enough time. So if I'm doing something and learning something if I know that it's going to count toward, you know, my licensure renewal, that's all the more reason for me to invest in learning it and, and spending the time to do it. So those are really kind of the, the main core tenants of our program that I think can be extrapolated again. If it's not. Our program EdgeU badges. If you're just looking at an opportunity to bring micro credentialing to your school. Those are the things that we have learned have been from my perspective. I would say have have really contributed to the success of the program. Tom. I don't know if if hearing that from my perspective, if there's anything that you would add disagree with or change about what I said from your perspective.

Tom Burton: 20:13

Well, I'm not an add not change. I would say this that I believe was 1989. So a billion years ago, and Matthaeus, you did such a nice job of saying a storied career. That was, that was, I hadn't heard that before. Certainly storied. I guess. So, 1989 or right around there. I remember reading a book is maybe early 1990s. I read a book called crazy times call for crazy organizations. 1989. And in that book, they talked about this concept. The future belongs to the quick and the dead. If you do not move quickly, you will die. And as a company perspective. So they talked about Kodak and they talked about a whole bunch of other companies that didn't adjust that didn't do things differently. So I will say this that P. D. Without some type of implementation to see if it actually will match up, will die. So, if you value professional development, then you have to come up with some type of mechanism to be able to make it come alive, to have teachers practice, and that is the value, one of the values of EdgeU Badges.

Katie Ritter: 21:35

Great. Yeah, that's a good perspective. Thank you.

Matthaeus: 21:37

We're going to take a really quick break. We're going to give our sponsors a chance to throw something in here and then we're going to be right back with Tom with a couple more questions. And we're back with Tom Burton. We're talking about micro credentialing and the future of professional development. One question I would have for Tom right now is we talked a little bit about the highlights of micro credentialing and all these things. What kind of advice would you give to someone, maybe a principal or anyone in that direction that is looking at integrating some sort of micro credentialing, whether this is a program or that they want to do it themselves? What advice do you give to someone that is Trying to go head on

Tom Burton: 22:17

thanks so much for that question earlier this morning. I had a conversation. We're talking about professional development and a variety of other topics and I said to the superintendent, you just have to do it and it was a little bit uncomfortable and you just have to do it. And the thing is, like, what does that actually mean? You just have to do right? It's funny because the, you know, slogan, you know, Nike slogan, just do it. They didn't say, oh, just try it. Right? You have to do it. So what I mean by that is, you know, you could say, try it, but no, you have to commit. Commit the fact that professional development today, tomorrow, and in the distant future is critical for the best kids that we know our kids needed and deserve it. That is. So if you look at it from that lens, then you're not going to wait. You can't wait. To impart great knowledge to help teachers be able to have this on demand micro credentialing where they're going to learn something different court, even if it's just affirm what they're doing and actually track it, I think is really important and ultimately, you have to look at it from the students lens if it's about students. We don't want teachers to delay learning because we don't have this convenient platform. We want it to be like when they're ready or when we, you know, have this cool little EdgeU badges challenge or micro credentialing challenge or whatever the case is. We want to be able to do that. And so whether you start small or which actually I would recommend you start smaller and kind of pick a couple teachers and have them try it out, but do it out. Not just try it out, but do it out. Actually have them go through the process and actually reflect on it. That's what I would say, Matthaeus, is that you have to just do it.

Matthaeus: 24:14

That's good. I mean, like, really, honestly, you have to commit to it and you got to make the choices and the steps forward. I fully agree with you on that.

Katie Ritter: 24:21

Yeah, I appreciate that advice too. I feel like a lot of times we're just kind of dragging our feet and moving really quickly to nowhere and not, not making the changes for our kids.

Tom Burton: 24:32

Yeah, and here's the thing. I did. Like, I'm not on this podcast 36 years thinking I know everything. I don't. I mean, I know enough to know that I messed up. I'm not. Have that earlier. I love when people say transformational and innovative. I love when people say that about me because that's the way I want to be seen because when you do that, you provide the best quality product for our kids in my opinion, right? The tried and true is transformation. It is and will always be. But ultimately, man, I made a ton of mistakes through my career by not moving deliberately enough and keeping kids front center more.

Katie Ritter: 25:16

Well, it's good advice for us all to learn from, I think. And I think we all have examples that we could empathize with that sentiment as well. Okay, Tom, we end every episode with top three tips. So I'm about to move into that to ask you about your top three tips here around this subject. But do you have anything else you want, want to share or touch on, speak to before we move in to that last question?

Tom Burton: 25:45

I would only, I would only say that, you know. Look, there's all kinds of different opportunities out there for people to partner with a lot of different products. That's what I always liked about forward edge is that even though we're talking about EdgeU badges, it really wasn't EdgeU badges you actually are partnering and that term is very, very different when you think about it like that, because you actually feel like you have a partner with Forward Edge. You actually feel like it's bigger than just EdgeU badges. And that is really critical. So, whatever it's whether you need coaching support, or some of these other great services that you guys provide the reality is you actually are partnering with people who care, get the fact. That it is and will always be about students. So the pathway is never alone with Forward Edge.

Katie Ritter: 26:40

Thanks, Tom. That means a lot to all of us here at the, at the organization. Okay. So let's go into our last question then. We know that you were a superintendent, right? So you have a different perspective than maybe more of the boots on the ground and instructional coaches might? But I would love your perspective as a leader who, who ultimately cares about the success of, you know, the entire organization what are maybe your top three takeaways or pieces of advice for our listeners, which are instructional coaches who might be looking to navigate this current PD landscape and might be interested in bringing some sort of micro credentials or on demand bite sized learning PD to their teachers.

Tom Burton: 27:26

Thanks, Katie. There's a Latin term called noscitae ipsum. And that means to know thyself. Noscitae ipsum, to know thyself. I would say that's the very first thing. Know, know yourself. And what I mean by that is, like, if we believe, if we say we believe that we want to provide opportunities for teachers to learn, and if you're an instructional coach and you know that you're probably pulled in a lot of different directions, and So, the tip is to know thyself and if you know that the case, then let's go to the second tip. So, the second tip is to just do it right to get in there and, and, you know, get a little bit muddy or whatever and take a look at things and just do it and try it out and try it out as an end user, not just as instructional coach. Right? So, because obviously, that's a beautiful thing is a superintendent. I could have done EdgeU badges. Everybody can do EdgeU Badges or micro credentialing in general. Right? But I would say that if, you know, yourself, and, you know, that you need support and help, and if we're honest, we all do, then just do it. Right and then the biggest thing is the reflection piece and the reflection piece is. What we don't spend enough time on, so we should reflect, like, what went good? What went bad? What's different? What's unique? How can we get this in our environment? Understanding the nuance that you currently are under to give all these different initiatives. And I say, sincerely, you have all these different initiatives going on. Don't do micro conditioning right now. If you feel like that's going to be the straw that broke the camel's back. Don't do it. Now, you have to ask yourself this question through reflection. If we're doing too much, what can we take away and bring something like this in? So, there's two different schools of thought when you wake up every day of your life. Actually, there's only, there's only one thing, there's three things that happen, but there's only one good choice, right? You get better, you get worse, you stay the same each and every day of your life. I say just choose better every day, right? That should make sense. But the other thing is, I know a lot of people when they wake up, they do a, they make a to do list. And if you're like me, the to do list can, I could spend all day long writing the darn to do list and not actually do anything, right? But I think there's another concept, too that. We have to be really honest with each other and education. We need to look at what we do, what we're implementing and have a stop doing list because everything is not intertwined. It should be, but again, it's not. So, what can we stop doing? And like, the master gardener, the master gardener just doesn't keep planting flowers. They pull out the ones that aren't growing. It's great. Right? And they plant new seeds or plant new bulbs. Based upon the environment, right? So that's really what we need to do. We need to not be afraid to stop doing certain things to stop supporting different programs and look, it's micro credentialing as something is what it truly is. Professional development on demand when people want to learn.

Katie Ritter: 30:50

I like that. And I do this all the time. I say it's the last question, but then something someone says in their top three tips makes me think of another quick thing. So real quick, cause I know you're, you're busy and you've got to get on your way to your next thing too, but I, I think we'd be remiss and it'd be a lost opportunity if we didn't ask. You given that our, our listener, our audience, our coaches very often not in that decision making role, right? They're in that recommendation role to leaders such as yourself or other folks who are on more of a district level administrative team. So, if our listeners are listening to this episode, they're believers, they want to either start a micro credentialing, they want to bring a micro credentialing program to their district, no matter what they may need to bring it up to a leader, either at the building level or the district level to get their approval. If they are facing Someone who maybe doesn't understand or doesn't believe in it initially. Do you have any quick thoughts or advice that you might share with our leaders and how they could best approach seeking approval to bring a program like this or start a program like this in their district?

Tom Burton: 32:03

All right. So, for for everybody who's listening, I want you to grab a pencil or pen. I want you to write down the name of a couple people. Just the 1st name, right? In case there's anybody around you named on who have said something like this. I'm so busy. I have so many things going on and they have traditional power. If you will, a hierarchical, they're above you. If you will. I never looked at that. Like, everybody where I like linear hierarchies personally, but sometimes that's not the case. And so when people say that, they spend so much time talking about how busy they are. If they stop talking about how busy they are, they have more time. But that's the reality. The reality is people in leadership positions sometimes view their time as more valuable than your time. So you have to use that to your advantage. Think of a social media post. That's how you have to start the conversation. Teachers want more time. There's only so many time. So, so much time in each day, right? What if we could have some type of program with teachers to do professional development whenever they want? Ask the question. What if not? I got this great program. Oh, my goodness. I did this, this, this, and that I went through the program. It's amazing. And you know what? It's like the Snoopy principal. That's all the people are going to hear. I'm sorry. It's just true. Don't make it about you make it ultimately about now. I know I mentioned the teachers, right? Because I think that's important. Obviously, if you don't feed the teachers, delete the kids, right? It's great book. I read one time, but the reality is, it's about the kids. So keep it about the kids. Keep it about the teachers. Okay. You divide the on demand aspect of it and short snippets that are attention grabbing, just like you would in a social media post. I think that's the simplest way for me to put it.

Katie Ritter: 34:10

Yeah. I think that's great advice. That was a great question for people to ask. Thank you for that.

Matthaeus: 34:15

All right, Tom. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us and talking with us about micro credentialing. You've given us so many good things to work with and so many great ideas for our listeners. We want to thank you and we're just excited to have you had, have you have had on, to have you had on, on our podcast. Wow. It's early Monday.

Tom Burton: 34:33

My goodness. We're just so excited to have you with

Katie Ritter: 34:36

us. Yes, Tom. so much. We really appreciate your

Tom Burton: 34:39

time. Oh, you got it. And just remember that every day is a choice. Choose better each and every day.

Katie Ritter: 34:45

I love that. I'm going to live by that. All right. Awesome. Thanks, Tom. We'll

Tom Burton: 34:52

see you later. Thanks, guys. Bye. Awesome. All right.