Join Dr. Rob Sirrine and Erin Lizotte as they discuss Michigan hop production with current Hop Growers of Michigan President, Mark Trowbridge (https://hopgrowersofmichigan.com/).
How did we do? Let us know by visiting https://msu.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_2ctaicwXmWFq0mO
Join Dr. Rob Sirrine and Erin Lizotte as they discuss Michigan hop production with current Hop Growers of Michigan President, Mark Trowbridge (https://hopgrowersofmichigan.com/).
How did we do? Let us know by visiting https://msu.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_2ctaicwXmWFq0mO
Speaker 1:
This information is for educational purposes only. References to commercial products or trade names does not imply endorsement by MSU extension, or bias against those not mentioned. MSU is an affirmative action equal opportunity employer. Michigan State University extension programs and materials are open to all. This work is supported by the USDA, National Institute of Food and Agriculture Crop Protection and Pest Management Program, and through the North Central IPM Center. Any opinions, findings, conclusions, or recommendations expressed in this podcast are those of the authors, and do not necessarily reflect the view of the US Department of Agriculture.
Erin Lizotte:
You're listening to the MSU hot podcast with extension educators Erin Lizotte and Dr. Rob Sirrine.
Rob Sirrine:
That's great.
Erin Lizotte:
Hey, last one. Mr. Mark Trowbridge.
Rob Sirrine:
Mr. Mark Trowbridge we've known for a long, long, time. Mark, we've probably been working with Mark for at least a decade. He's one of the original hot growers in Michigan, produces a very high quality product. In fact, I think they're planting more acreage just to maximize their production this year but his-
Erin Lizotte:
They have won the Chinook cup as well, They're Chinook cup winners. In fact, I think they've won various Chinook Cup associated awards at Top Hops.
Rob Sirrine:
Yeah, I think twice at least. So outstanding growers, a wealth of knowledge, talking about some of the challenges and opportunities in growing hops, but also, Mark is the president of The Hop Growers of Michigan, so he can speak from that broader perspective, as well, and that connection with the national industry. Yeah, had a great conversation.
Erin Lizotte:
Yeah. So, Mark was one of the original founders of Hop Growers of Michigan, which is the grower group, and he'll talk more about that but it's the grower group that represents the industry. And I think Mark's always really passionate and motivated about service to the greater industry, and it's so critical for us at the university to have those industry partners that are engaged, that are active, that want to work together, share information, make connections. And so Mark's been an awesome ally in that, and we really enjoy this conversation with them, hopefully he will too.
Rob Sirrine:
Boom.
Erin Lizotte:
I feel like I'm just cutting it off. I hope you don't have anything else to say, Rod, because that's it.
Rob Sirrine:
No, that was fine. That as great. That was [inaudible 00:02:58].
Erin and I are really excited to be talking with Mark Trowbridge today. He is one of the initial hot growers in Michigan, him and his son run Top Hops. And he's also the current president of the Hop Growers of Michigan. And I should mention, two time Chinook Cup champion.
Erin Lizotte:
Woo-hoo.
Mark Trowbridge:
All right.
Rob Sirrine:
So Mark, can you introduce yourself, and maybe let us and everyone else know how you got into hops and how you're connected with the industry?
Mark Trowbridge:
Sure, sure, be glad to.. Well, I have been in a hop business with my son, Sean, for nine years now. And we probably researched hops a couple years before that. So we're looking at about 11 year term of hops. I am a retired engineer from the automotive industry, so that's my background. My son has a degree in biology and an interest in plants and outdoor life. And we actually picked up a retired skilled tradesman that's a friend of mine and neighbor. And so the three of us made a pretty good team at setting up the hop farm and doing all the different things that go along with growing hops, and selling hops, and getting the equipment in place, and all that.
Rob Sirrine:
And that's a really good point, Mark. It's not just sitting on a tractor, right? There's everything from figuring out what varieties you're going to grow, researching the market, all the way through harvest, post-harvest, sales. Can you talk a little bit about all of that, as well?
Mark Trowbridge:
Of course I can.
Erin Lizotte:
You'd be delighted, right?
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah. I'd be delighted. What I like to say, there is the need for a lot of different talents, different hats that you wear. And so Sean, and I, and Dave, and Dave is the third part of this, we always refer to ourselves as a three-legged stool, and without any one of us, the business wouldn't succeed. So, Dave brought the ability to make a lot of things that are unique with the hop industry. Like you said, it's so much different than row cropping or dairy because those are out there. People can go buy a tractor, you can buy a disc, and you can buy pretty much everything you need. But with putting in a hop farm in Michigan, we were pretty much sketching things up and fabricating a lot of things year after year.
My son had to obviously learn a lot, and a lot of that thanks to Michigan State University. Made available a lot of information and educational opportunities. We participated in the hop and barley conference, and went on their bus tours over the years, and we continue to learn how to get better yields and higher quality out of the plant. So and then the sales is probably becoming a key to success in hop farming because a lot of people wanted to grow hops and be hop farmers, and they were able to do that, but then they weren't able to make a profit or at least get their money back because they hadn't really thought through how they're going to sell it, and what they're gonna sell it for, and who to.
So my son, Sean, has been a tremendous resource for that because he likes to talk and he likes to drink beer. So that really helps when you're going around to the breweries. And usually you're sitting down with a brewer and not with somebody that's in purchasing or the owner. A lot of times it's the guy back there that's grabbing the bag of hops and ripping them open and throwing them in the pot. So Sean has done an excellent job of going around, spending a lot of time knocking on doors, and sitting down with our customer and establishing that relationship that is critical to remaining in the hop business.
Rob Sirrine:
That's a really good point. We did some research with some of your hops up here in the brewer that we were working with. There's a lot of different factors involved and, and he was very complimentary of the packaging, in particular, of the hops, of your guys' hops, compared to some others. So can you talk a little bit about aside from growing, how that picking harvest, post-harvest, and how you fine tune that over the years? Because there's a lot of different factors involved, not just, again, growing or drying. Now you got to be thinking about, are we pelletizing these? Are we using proper packaging and that sort of thing? Because brewers really look for that.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up, because a lot of people overlook that. And to be honest with you, we put a lot of effort into packaging to make it very consistent and presentable. And basically, we do 100% 11 pound bags, and we put a lot effort into, actually, we changed our box size about three times to get it as small and compact as possible. We're consistent with our labels. We actually put a mark on the box when we buy them to where the labels go. And just a lot of attention to detail, and I think it shows when people see us show up with, whether it's three boxes or 30 boxes, every one looks exactly the same. They're taped the same, the labels are in the same place. And the bags, when they rip the bags open, they're all vacuum packed and look consistent. Some of them aren't, we don't accept the fact that some of them be drawn down vacuumed really hard and others would be a big pillow. Because if I'm a brewer, and I rip open five boxes, and each bag looks a little different, I'm going to wonder, "What are these doing?"
Erin Lizotte:
Where else are they inconsistent in their practices?
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah. Yeah, you're right. It reflects how you run your whole business. And to be honest with you, there are still people out there that are, they're vacuum packing stuff, and putting it into a box that they got from the hardware store, and walking up to the brewery with it. It's crazy. And they might have handwritten labels on things.
Rob Sirrine:
That's really interesting. And I think that's really important. I was touring around with some guys from the hop quality group doing audits, and they'll look, they'll go in and look at the harvest facility, the processing facility, and they'll look around, and is there tools laying around on the floor, or everything's in their place? Is everything well-maintained, is it clean? Because that's what they're looking for. That's what they're used to at a higher level, albeit working in a brewery, it's a different situation. But they want all their raw materials to be sourced abiding by food safety rules and have everything in their place as well, because it is a reflection on the work and on the product. So I think you're exactly right, Mark.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah, that was really one of the reasons we, the hop growers of Michigan, did the verified source program, because it focuses in on procedures and having standard operating practices. And like you said, just things about if you have a brew... For example, here at our farm, and this is part of the verified sources, if you have a broom where you, let's say, you have a dryer area, and you dump hops into there, and then you broom those hops that didn't make it into your shoot, you can broom them in. We label the broom that says that's what that broom is for, and it can't be used for anything else. So you don't grab that broom and then go sweep out the driveway, and then the next day you're sweeping hops with it.
So yeah, you're right. When the quality group walks through, if they see a broom, they're gonna want to know, "Is that going to be used on my hops?" And if you can't show that you have, and this is just one example, but if you can't show that the broom that you do use on hops isn't somewhere already labeled and identified for your employees, then they got to suspect the worst, and that you don't really treat your hops any different than you treat your driveway. So the verified source focused in on getting that mindset with everyone that you treat hops as a food product, and you put policies and procedures in place where you're consistent year after year. You do everything the same way. And it's been a pretty good program. I think it was very well received by the brewing industry.
Erin Lizotte:
Yeah, I think it's really nice. It's such a resource for growers, too, that might not have a background in that. Like you said, it's a set of standard operating procedures that helps them think through how they're doing things. And if it makes sense, and it provides a structure to work from, which when you're starting from zero is so helpful to have available to you. So I was hoping we could back up a little bit because we haven't really talked about what Hoppers of Michigan is. And Mark, I know you've been involved since its inception, so I'm hoping maybe you can tell us a little bit about the history, and how it came about, and what it looks like today?
Mark Trowbridge:
Okay. Well, I know that Rob, you were involved in hops here in Michigan right from day one. And I'm not sure when you got into it, Erin, but you've been involved in it ever since I have.
Erin Lizotte:
It's been about six months I've working with hops.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah, right.
Rob Sirrine:
Did you say 160 months? That's about right.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah, seems like forever. But when we got into the business, and we have treated it like a business, there were meetings being conducted, facilitated by, I can't remember the name of the group, but there was an effort to basically try to get a handle on the hop industry in Michigan and where it was heading. And part of that is because getting hops from the field to the finished product that the brewers need involves a lot of capital investment and a lot of unique practices, especially the pelletizing and packing. And so there was an effort to try to take a look at are we going to end up having 20 or 30 completely independent businesses that have to buy all this equipment and then end up selling their own hops, or would it make more sense to put in a co-op where there would be facilities put in place and there would be shared resources?
And there was a lot of go rounds on that. And not necessarily the smartest decisions are made when there's emotions involved. When you're at the beginning of a business, everybody, I think everybody just wanted to have their own thing. So when the hop industry would have these meetings and say, "Hey, what can we do," it ended up that everybody could agree with having an association that would help the industry and help individual growers, but nobody wanted to get involved in a co-op at that time. So the Hop Growers of Michigan was established as a growers association that would share information, help each other out, promote Michigan grown hops, but we would not get into the business end of individual businesses. And that's the way we've always been. And everybody liked that. I'm sure at times, some of the small farms could have benefited from a co-op, because they wouldn't have run into some of the roadblocks that they have over the years. So, but that's where the association is right now. We're strictly a growers association and continue to do the same thing we set out to when we started.
Erin Lizotte:
Well, I think it's really interesting, because just working with different groups of growers. I do have to say that the hop growers tend to be even more fiercely independent than other groups that I've worked with. Everybody has their own take on things and in their own way that they want to get things done. And I think, too we have a lot of first-generation, so to speak, farmers in this group of growers. So a lot of people, we don't have fourth generation hop farmers in Michigan.
Mark Trowbridge:
Right.
Erin Lizotte:
But also, it's people coming back to the farm that have maybe their families have been off the farm for multiple generations. And so, yeah, I do wonder, because I think more traditional agricultural producers might find the idea of a cooperative more attractive than these more independent first-generation growers, just in the understanding of all of the work we just talked about. Right? So the processing, the sales, all of those things, if you're not interested in that, it's pretty hard to be a hop grower in Michigan right now and find any level of success. So really interesting perspective.
Mark Trowbridge:
I think what makes it unique, excuse me, compared to, like you said, the row crop or something like that is we are tied into the craft beer industry, and everybody knows the craft beer industry is a sexy thing. And so I think most of us headed down the path saying, "Yeah, we're going to be a farm, but we're also going to get to hang out at the brewery and talk to our favorite brewers. And we're going to be able to brag about the fact that "Hey, that beer has my hops in it.""
Rob Sirrine:
Yeah. We're also sexy guys, as well.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah. Right. We're-
Erin Lizotte:
It's sexy [inaudible 00:18:53].
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah, we're sexy by association.
Rob Sirrine:
That's a great band name right there.
Mark Trowbridge:
I think you're right, Erin, is that we... It's funny, because I see some of these new farms that have come in, and I think the first thing they do instead of putting together a business case is they talk about what the name of their farm should be so that their farm has a cool name. And they look forward to having their hops in a beer, not thinking about all the steps it takes to get it into that beer. And I think that's why everybody wanted to have their own brand, like we're Top Hops, we're Top Hops Farm. We have a logo, we have a brand. And it's a fun, cool part of the business, but it takes a lot of sales work to do it. We're handing out things, we're handing out signs, and stickers and labels, and we're doing the sales end of it. It just doesn't happen by itself, even with customers that we've had for four or five years, they'll say, "Hey, we love your hops. We will keep buying it." But if we don't call them every now and then, it's like they just slide off, they disappear and I-
Erin Lizotte:
Right, it takes a lot of maintenance in today's market place.
Mark Trowbridge:
It does, because they have so many other options, and a lot of the other options are very good options. You take a look at the guys out in the Pacific Northwest, they got their act together, they've been in it for years, they know how important quality and consistency is. And so while it's sexy and fun, it's also a never-ending part of the business, keeping that relationship with the brewers.
Rob Sirrine:
Mark, do you sell most of your hops in Michigan? I'm imagining trying to keep that those relationships, and a phone call is nice, but I'm assuming that a visit is even better for those types of people. And if you're selling beyond Michigan, that's a lot of travel involved, as well. And is that how you sell most of your hops, or how you create those markets, by developing relationship with brewers, whether it's in Michigan or elsewhere, and where do you sell most of your hops?
Mark Trowbridge:
We sell most of our hops in Southeast Michigan. So we do like to try to stay close to home. But we also have reached out into Ohio, and Indiana, and Illinois. And I think a great opportunity for the hop grower that wants to sell his own hops is to participate in the Brewers Guild events, because you go to a winter conference, and where else can you sell your stuff where you can have 50 or 60 customers or 100 customers all in the same building at the same time? So we definitely travel and go to those things. We pay for memberships to the guilds, so our name's out there. So yeah, but even that, that's keeping us within the Great Lakes area, because you're right. Let's say we'd love to sell down in North Carolina, or maybe Texas, or I don't know where the hotspots are for craft beer right now, but it would make sense to sell them there, but we need to go there, and it's hard to get that much time away from the farm and spend the money to be out on the road for a couple of days doing that kind of stuff.
Rob Sirrine:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erin Lizotte:
Well, I think you guys are lucky where you're located down there, because we talk about the definition of local a lot, but you can probably be perceived as local to a large dense population area in Southeast Michigan, even Southern Michigan, across the bottom of the state. And as you move north and you get more rural, there's fewer beer drinkers, so there's fewer breweries, and there's less demand. So I think also just thinking about the capacity, if you're going to really rely on those local or regional sales, what is the capacity for hops in this region? And thinking about scaling things to that, as well, based on your outreach strategy.
Rob Sirrine:
Right. That's a good point, Erin. You talked about it yesterday with Anne, what average pounds per barrel do brewers use, and maybe two at the most, I don't know, if they're dry hopping, maybe more if they're crazy. But pretty quickly, even if you're at, I don't know, 1000 pounds an acre, that's a lot of beer right there that just the one farm could supply. So yeah, I think you're right.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah. And most of us in Michigan are smaller farms. We're looking for that niche market. We're a boutique supplier. And you're right, so we're not going over to Bell's and Founders to sell beer. We're going to the little mom and pop shops that are in the neighborhood that might only be brewing, they might be doing 300 barrels a year, and that doesn't consume very much hops.
Erin Lizotte:
No.
Mark Trowbridge:
So when we make a delivery, we might fill the Suburban up and drive around to eight or 10 breweries. And some of them, we're only dropping off 22 pounds of hops to. Others might be getting 44 pounds, but that seems to be the market we're in. And that does take some time. We also sell a lot using UPS. So a lot of our product goes out in smaller grouped packages.
Erin Lizotte:
Sure.
Mark Trowbridge:
We're selling, I will say that that's where the majority of our sales is right around the Great Lakes area. But we do use Lupulin Exchange, as well. And that pretty much has gotten us everywhere in the country, and it's worked out well. We get repeat sales, and then we've gotten to the point where some of them just call us up and say, "Hey, we like your stuff. We're going to keep buying it. Why don't we just buy direct instead of going through Lupulin Exchange?" And so the initial sales are there, but the longterm relationship gets established and-
Erin Lizotte:
That's great.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah.
Erin Lizotte:
That's a great opportunity, a great platform for just like you're talking about, for reaching beyond the geographical limitations you have as direct salesmen to maybe establish some different relationships.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah. Yes. I think it's been a great opportunity for us.
Erin Lizotte:
And so, Mark, do you think that, especially those brewers who might not be at all concerned about buying local hops from Michigan, say you're selling to somewhere in Texas, they found you on the Lupulin Exchange, and they keep coming back. Obviously you're producing a quality product, but is there something different about the flavor of Michigan hops that you've heard brewers like, whether it's a certain terroir or, I don't know, a different aroma that they experience? Because as you said, they could be buying probably the same varieties of hops from somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. Why do you think they come back to you guys?
Mark Trowbridge:
I think the aroma, I don't know if it's necessarily being different, but I think the amount of aroma, which can lead back to the timing of your harvest and how you dry. And so I think we have, we're a 17 acre farm or 20 acre farm, and we have our own dryers here that we can walk out to the field and try to optimize the exact day that we're picking our Chinook, or our Cascade, or Centennial to make it so that we think it's the best it should be, and we can get samples. And so we have an advantage over somebody that's doing 2,000 or 3,000 acres. We can delay picking a field, because we have the ability to do that. And the same thing with drying, we dry at a hundred degrees F, but we take two days to dry. The big guys out West can't, they don't have that luxury. So they might be drying at 125 or 130 degrees F, and they're losing some of those, at least I say, this is part of my sales pitch here, but they're losing some of that aroma.
Granted, they're still putting out a good product, but I think that's enough to separate us from the big guys. Is those two things right there just allow us to be a little bit better that they can notice it when they rip those bags open and they get the aroma. I think that's why they buy us is because of the amount of aroma, and the appearance of the product versus us being different.
Rob Sirrine:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Do you ever have brewers come out to the farm?
Mark Trowbridge:
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Rob Sirrine:
And they pick what they want?
Mark Trowbridge:
No. We have them out here to show them the hops. We walk through the hops. Ideally, they are coming out right at harvest time. So they can go out and pick some cones off, and rub them, and smell them, and get to experience the hop farm. And we do some wet hop sales, but it's usually jus, to be honest with you, it's a very small portion of our business. So we, I think last year we sold 12, somewhere around 12, or 16 different breweries in wet hops, but the quantity, we probably only sold them maybe 30, 40 pounds of hops.
Rob Sirrine:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Got it. Okay.
Mark Trowbridge:
So they're just doing it to be involved in the harvest day little thing. It's not a big portion of their business, either. It's just, I think, one of those fun things that brewers like to do, we like to do it.
Rob Sirrine:
Well, I think that's pretty cool, because when we talk about people being removed from agriculture, and you ask a kid, "Well, where does the chicken come from?", "From the grocery store." And so you would think, well, brewers their product is, hops is such an integral part of their product, yet because in the past so much of the hops have been grown out in the Pacific Northwest, a lot of these smaller breweries or taprooms haven't had the opportunity to even get out and see hops. So I think that's a really cool thing that you guys are doing.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah. It's fun. It's rewarding. It's definitely rewarding for us to have them out here. And we've, up until COVID, we had a couple of years in a row where we did a pig roast here, and we tried to get as many customers here as we can. And, it gets all of them together. It gets them opportunities to see our farm all the way from the field out to our pelletizing room. And basically to help pay them back for being loyal customers.
Rob Sirrine:
So you couldn't put a mask on the pig?
Mark Trowbridge:
We tried, but it kept getting burned off.
Erin Lizotte:
So much of this stuff, it comes back to the relationships, right? The relationships you develop and maintain, and that translates into, hopefully, longterm partnerships where everybody benefits. So I love the idea, and that it is regional, and so those people can physically visit the farm. I think that's great.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah. Yeah. It is a good opportunity. And like you say, they can buy from the guys Pacific Northwest all the time, but for them to actually go out and get a tour of a farm, it's very expensive for them to go out there and justify the expense and the days away from their brewery. Here they can, most, a lot of our customers can drive here, spend a nice day here, and then drive back home without any issues.
Rob Sirrine:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). So Mark, what different cultivars or hops do you grow on? Which one is your favorite, or do you have a couple favorites?
Mark Trowbridge:
Well, ironically, my favorite is Chinook, just because I'm an IPA beer drinker, so I love our Chinook and I love our Centennial. We also do Cascade, Cashmere, Mount Reineer, we're now doing Triumph, and we're doing the other one is Tahoma, or no, Neo's, we're doing a Neo is our other variety now.
Rob Sirrine:
Okay.
Mark Trowbridge:
So we have a pretty good mix, and they all seem to have their own different, they're a little different types of beer that they go into. But yeah. Yeah. I'm a IPA guy. I love the Chinook. And I love winning the Chinook Cup.
Rob Sirrine:
No doubt. No doubt.
Mark Trowbridge:
How about you, Rob? What's your favorite?
Rob Sirrine:
I can tell you, well, my favorite beer style? Well, it's funny we ask everyone we talk to about this, and I like Scott Graham's, probably, answer the best. It's whatever beer is in my hand that I'm drinking at that time. Yeah my tastes vary so much. Same with you. I probably started drinking craft beer in college and it was Bell's Sol Sun, which is now Oberon, they had to change the name. Two Hearted is one of my favorite beers, just IPA. But then I also like sour beers. I like a lager every once in a while. I like ciders. I like pretty much everything, anything fermented. I can't really pin it down.
Mark Trowbridge:
Okay. I get the point.
Rob Sirrine:
Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Erin?
Erin Lizotte:
Well, I always tease people and say that my favorite beer is vodka. In all seriousness, I'm the same. I do love an IPA. I also love a really well done Pilsner. I think it's really hard to do a Pilsner well. I like to try things like Pilsners and some of those lighter ends of the beer scale at microbreweries, because I think it tells you a lot about how nuanced the brewer is with their pallet, and the way they're blending things and creating flavors, because it's so hard to hide issues in those beers, right, off flavored and things like that. So I really enjoy checking those out, and then maybe an IPA, but I love the idea that if I have a couple IPAs, that's a lot. So, in terms of just of usually the alcohol amount, so it's nice to mix in those lighter beers or if you're eating food or things like that, I like lighter beers, too.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah, that is one nice thing about the variety is even a seasonal, like this time of year, it's a lot more enjoyable to drink a tasty, dark beer out of a brandy snifter. And when it's hot and sunny, you'd like a couple of pints of something.
Rob Sirrine:
Something crisp and refreshing. Yeah, you're exactly right.
Erin Lizotte:
So we've been talking to people a little bit about, it's hard to have this discussion and not talk about what's going on in the outside world with the pandemic and how it might be affecting our industries. I'm wondering from HGMs perspective, or your farm perspective, what you're seeing as a result of the pandemic and how you're addressing or thinking about those challenges moving forward? It's crazy out there.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah. Yeah. I think that ties into the fact that we are losing some of the growers here in Michigan. Ohio's struggling. New York's losing some growers. And maybe the pandemic's just been the straw that broke the camel's back. I think there's been growers, and I'm talking about people with two to five acres type of thing, that have been asking themselves whether they should stay in business or not. And I think with this thing coming along, it just kind of said, "This is a good time to say the hell with it and throw in the towel." So I think that it's more than a coincidence. I think we're losing people just because they were getting close to giving it up, and the pandemic just gave them the final reason or excuse. Yeah, and I think from a sales standpoint, that's a to be determined.
We know that a lot of our customers weren't brewing beer several weeks, if not months, out of this year because of the shutdowns. And they're trying to do curb service and selling some things with growlers, but still a lot of our customers might be selling keg beer, like at the bowling alleys or different bars and things. And a lot of that went away. So I think it's to be determined on how quick they can get back up and running. We have found that a lot of the customers that do strictly the pint beer across the counter don't need our product right now, but then there's other customers that are using more than they've ever used from us, because they got into canning and bottling, and they got some shelf space and they... Well, they either got shelf space, or they are also doing curbside service, but it's a quick and easy way for people to run in and grab some beer and go home with it. So we've seen some of the craft beer industries doing quite well. It all has to do with where they're canning and bottling and if they got that reputation and a following for people to want to come and buy their stuff.
So bottom line is it's a to be determined. I think we're going to learn a lot over the next three to six months.
Rob Sirrine:
Yeah. It would be nice if... I think Faucci said today that he's hoping by April, if things are ramped up that everyone will have, that wants one, will have had a vaccine, or at least the first one, which is an accelerated timeline from the last time I looked. So that would be really nice going into summer if things were back open again. And because I think people are going to be ready for it after, especially after the winter, but also after just not being able to go out and enjoy a beer.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah.
Rob Sirrine:
Mark, is there anything else that the people listening should know that we haven't mentioned or that you haven't mentioned we haven't asked?
Mark Trowbridge:
Any words of wisdom? I don't know, nothing significant. I will say that I think the Hop Growers of Michigan continues to hold its own. It's difficult at times, because it is a 100% voluntary organization. One of the things that I think that we have been successful at is working with Michigan State University. We, being that we are an association and this legal entity, it helps facilitate grant funding for MSU to do research in addressing downy and powdery mildews and different types of diseases that can come into Michigan hop yards.
Erin Lizotte:
Yeah. That's been so critical for our researchers to have that collaborative relationship with the grower group, because obviously these granting agencies want to make sure the focus is being put where the farmers need it. And so that partnership has been really key. I know Dr. Miles, and Dr. Meldonstrom, and others have really worked in close partnership with the group to leverage those funds and get work done. So we appreciate that from our side, obviously, a lot, too.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah, well and it's been definitely a good work working relationship where MSU has the interest or the desire to help the hop growers. And the fact that hop growers in Michigan is, we're all in the same box. The way we were before the association was formed, we were a bunch of kittens running around and trying to get us all on the same box was impossible. So now at least if somebody says, "Hey, let's talk to the Hop Growers Association, there's some organized group rather than, "Let's call Hop Farm A, and then Hop Farm B, and then Hop Farm C and see if we can get a consensus on what we ought to be doing."
Rob Sirrine:
I think that's super important. And I think you're right, Mark, without that organization, without your leadership right now in that group, we couldn't be working with folks on campus to write grants, because without that collective voice, it's nearly impossible. And the other thing I would say is that, and I don't know why this is, but we just heard a couple of days ago, and I think Janelle talked to you as well, that the hop growers, more so than any other group in the state, had the highest percentage of responses to the USDA National Ag Statistics Survey. So good job.
Erin Lizotte:
Which is super important. It's the federal government asking how many of you are there, and it comes into play when they're thinking about allocating funding and resources. And so thank you, everyone who filled out that survey and took the time to do it. Keep doing it every day.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah. I think it's great. And one of the things I think it shows is there is a huge commitment to be a hop farmer. It's just a huge commitment, not only financially, but your work, you got blood, sweat, and tears in it, and all of us want to be successful. So I think the association encouraged everybody to do those responses, and everybody was willing to do it. I'm anxious to see the numbers. I hope the results are published soon. I'm anxious to see.
Rob Sirrine:
Me, too. Because that's something that is really difficult to get a grasp on. We can call everyone and we can guess, you and I've done that in the past, but having those reports will be really, really useful.
Mark Trowbridge:
Rob, there's no guessing involved. Those are statistically analyzed and-
Rob Sirrine:
Yeah. Hey Mark, how many growers do you think there are? "Well, me too, right around there."
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah, right.
Erin Lizotte:
If you squint your eyes and rub your chin while you're coming up with a number, I don't think that's quite a [inaudible 00:44:37]. Yeah.
Mark Trowbridge:
We're probably close.
Rob Sirrine:
Yeah.
Erin Lizotte:
So, Mark, if people are interested in learning more about HGM, where can they go?
Mark Trowbridge:
We do have a website, and we have a Facebook page, or they can call me. Our contact information should be on the website. I'd be glad to talk to people about it. And part of it is, when you join any association, you say, "What's in it for me? Am I getting value out of this expense?" Our fees right now for an annual basis, we're talking around $150 to $250 bucks per year. And so that's always everybody's, that's always one of the things you say, "Am I going to get my money's worth out of that? What does the association do?" And I know in addition to the work that we talked about with MSU, we're trying to get some funding now for marketing of Michigan grown hops.
And again, I, myself, Top Hop Farms, I can't submit a request for a grant that would give me money to promote my business, but the Hop Growers of Michigan, as an association, can go to request funds that would promote our hops grown in Michigan. And so we're doing that. We are applying again for marketing funds to help promote hop growers, emissions, products, not only within the state of Michigan, but probably across the Great Lakes area or areas that people say we should be going to.
Erin Lizotte:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). So HCM also... So can you explain, and I could have this wrong, Mark, but membership in HGM, which pays up to the national organization of HGA also gives you access to their resources, correct?
Mark Trowbridge:
That's correct. Yep.
Erin Lizotte:
Yeah. So there's some member only resources there that are really great to take advantage of, especially for new people.
Mark Trowbridge:
That's correct. There's a lot of things, a lot of resources that you can use, they have good buy-ins program that they've been adding to on their website that are tools to, basically back to what we were talking about earlier, to help farms put some consistency in the way they do things. The other thing about Hop Growers America is, again, it's one of those things where you don't have to pay, and you don't have to get involved, but you are getting some of the benefits of all the research they do out there. And what I mean by that is they have a tremendous amount of resources out there that are addressing diseases, and mildews, and things that show up, and insect infestations, and things like that, they're doing that. And that knowledge becomes available to us. So for me to say, "Yeah. Hey, that's a benefit. I'm willing to throw in some money for that, because it does help me." And it's a good thing.
Erin Lizotte:
Yeah, we've actually interviewed Anne yesterday for the podcast series, and the work that they do around maximum residue level harmonization, and the produce safety rule, FISMA rules, and stuff. They really are a sentinel lookout for all people involved in the hop industry across the US. And I think y what's been really great to see is, I think, as Michigan and these other emerging or re-emerging regions came online, they really spread out their wings to cover everybody. I think they're working hard to think about the growers in the regions and how they can help them, as well. So that's been really nice to see. Rob, what's going on there?
Mark Trowbridge:
That's not me. That's not me barking.
Erin Lizotte:
Sorry. We talked about that yesterday. I think that another thing, and I don't think we talked about this, is that Hop Growers of Michigan, well Michigan is one of four states that are state members of Hop Growers of America, which Washington, Idaho, and Oregon, and Michigan. So that also means that because HGM contributes to that and pay quite a bit of money each year, and that's what a lot of these dudes go to, is that we have a seat on the board at the national level, so that some of the needs that we have can be conveyed at that level as well. So I think that's another super important reason to be a member of Hop Growers of Michigan.
Mark Trowbridge:
I do too. I agree. And the other thing that we haven't mentioned that they do is they are bringing out the publicly available varieties. And a lot of us are competing against these private hops that are the latest and greatest, and the breweries are willing to spend some pretty high prices for some of these special hops. And it leaves us small farmers out of the picture completely, because you're not allowed to grow the proprietary hops, and we're too small to make it worth their time to even allow us to participate. So Hop Growers of America and the universities out there are putting a tremendous amount of resources into developing hops that are available to everybody across the country, which would obviously include us. And in fact, Triumph is, we have probably three... We actually have four hops at our farm that were developed and released as a result of Hop Growers of America's work out there.
Rob Sirrine:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. We talked to John Henning the other day, too.
Mark Trowbridge:
Yeah.
Rob Sirrine:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks, Mark. I really appreciate your time. I'm going to go see if my dog attacked the UPS man.
Erin Lizotte:
I just do want to throw in there that the website is HopGrowersofMichigan.com, very creative you guys, quite easy to find. And I think there's lots of great resources on there. So if people are interested in learning more about HGM, take some time and check it out and give Mark a call. Like he said, he's listed on there as one of the board members, the current president. So, yeah. Thanks for joining us, Mark.
Mark Trowbridge:
You bet.
Erin Lizotte:
Thanks, Mark. Appreciate it.
Mark Trowbridge:
My pleasure. Thanks for having us.
Erin Lizotte:
Yeah.