S4E3 -- Ohana Guest / Moab 240 Finisher : Manmadh Rebba

Today’s Ohana guest, Manmadh Rebba, is a multiple finisher of 515 races and ultramarathons.  His ultra journey has taken him from a company 5k to completing the Moab 240.  In his day job he works as an architect and project management consultant, and he uses that as a metaphor for his new endurance coaching platform - Re-Design Me.  He wants to help athletes, especially Indian athletes, to find the path to live Aloha, Ohana, and Kokua while living a sustainable lifestyle. 

We speak about a number of topics including his volunteer work with Big Brothers and tutoring homeless youths for which he received a Presidential Volunteer Service Award in 2016 from president Barack Obama.

Contact Info for Manmadh:

• Website: www.manmadh.com
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/manmadhrebba
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/UltraManJourney/

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Manmadh’s Facebook Post about Immigration Story (Nov 21, 2022)
• School on Wheels
• Big Brothers
• Ultraman Florida 
• Ultraman World Championships
• Moab 240
• Keys 100 
• Canyons 100k
• Barkley Fall Classic
• Barkley Marathons
• Ultra 520k Canada
• https://www.manmadh.com/
• Re-Design Me

Shout outs and mentions in this episode:

• Staci Studer
• Ardis Bow
• Caroline Bloom (S2E3) 
• Marcos Moya
• Sidharth Routray
• Sheryl Cobb (S2E8)
• Antonina Reznikov
• Randy Latza 
• Kurt Madden 
• Shane Duffy (S4E4)
• Peter O’Connor
• Gary "Lazarus Lake" Cantrell 
• Abhay Kelkar (S1E3)
• Steve Brown (S2E13)
• Vedant Nangare
• Milind Soman

___________________________________________________________

Show Contributors:
Host : Larry Ryan
Contributing Raconteur : Steve King
Announcer : Mary Jo Dionne
Production : 5Five Enterprises
Music  :  Run by 331

___________________________________________________________

For show notes and past guests, please visit the Podcast Website: https://515theultrapodcast.buzzsprout.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/515TheUltraPodcast
Insta : 515theultrapodcast
Email : 515Ultraman@gmail.com

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I I really won't do it fast on that penny farthing. That would be pretty awesome to do that.

Larry 0:06

I think you should just like at least start the first like kilometer out of the swim transition on that thing and then stop it.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

That would be pretty awesome. Like uh uh I was thinking about it in 2020. It's like uh I should get like a bigger one. Like one of my neighbors has that and they still like that when already allowed me.

Manmadh Rebba Immigration Story

Larry 1:46

Come from his ability to put one foot in front of another in the face of what others see as an insurmountable obstacle. Day after day, for years he has had to fight through unfair and broken bureaucracy and against the powers of those of higher standing. Sometimes it has worked out to a positive outcome, but others have not. All the while he does so following the rules and his morals, even when those around him do not. I am pleased to have my guest joining me today from Hadarabad, India, where he's visiting his family, Mahmad Reba.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Thank you, Larry. Thank you for having me here. It's definitely an honor for me to be on your podcast.

Larry 2:28

Thank thanks for coming and joining us. Now, you you currently live in San Diego, California, but you were born in India and immigrated to the USA to chase after the American dream, as you say. And and you recently wrote a very interesting Facebook post detailing the grueling process of trying to become an American citizen through the proper channels and how that has shaped your adult life to this point. I I I'll go ahead and share the the link in the show notes for people to check out because it is lengthy and it has a lot of details, and and maybe some other people might even want to know that stuff that you've learned through it. But it was kind of an ultra in itself. Can can you please share with the listener a quick rundown of that journey and how it has affected you during the process?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yes, it's definitely one of the most gruelling endurance races uh I encountered. Back in 2004, I came to US uh for my master's, and I was on student visa. And then as soon as you finish your master's, you have like a grace period to stay in US and find a job in your skill set. So I got there and then I I got lucky and I've I got like probably five offers in five different companies, and uh and I got a full-time job. And uh as after that, the next step is getting a work visa, and one of the employers has to sponsor. So I picked a company who promised me to do my uh work visas. So I was like, okay, this company is doing this, and then I joined it, and later I realized that you know, uh once you get into uh H1B, there are certain situations where your negotiating skills or like you know, your uh benefits or anything, uh you you will not have that kind of edge because your immigration is in uh the employer's hands. So you you don't have a free freedom to jump from one company to other unless you get approval uh immigration approval, immigration transfer approval. So most of most of the Indians or like most of the immigrants, they are kind of like stuck because of this class. Uh so and every time you try to transfer from one company to another, it's about like five grand, five thousand dollars of expense. And that that kind of uh discourages people from jumping from one company to another, even though it is not good for them, or like it's not like uh helping them grow uh professionally. Bottom line is uh you have to stick with one company, and then like for you to become uh permanent residents, you have to find a sponsor to sponsor you for the green card. And once they start the process, you can't really leave the company because if you leave the company, you have to restart the entire green card process.

Larry 5:39

And and how long does that process normally take from beginning to end if everything goes well?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

If if everything goes well, for example, uh for countries like uh any other country other than India and China or uh Mexico, uh it generally takes, for example, Pakistan, like some of my uh people I know uh from Pakistan, they got the green card in one and a half year.

SPEAKER_04 6:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

And uh for me, uh, I started it back in 2010, and uh last month I got my green card. It took over 12 years, five months from starting to receiving that green card. So uh my progress has been frozen for almost 12 years, my professional progress has been frozen for 12 years.

Larry 6:30

And is there a reason why India and China um their process is longer?

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yes, uh the way they did uh they've divided all these green cards is for example, you have 100,000, 100,000 green cards every year. Instead of uh dividing it based on uh the workforce requirement, they they have left it as like a 7% of green cards goes to India, 7% goes to another country. So they uh divided it by percentage by country. Now uh India has been supplying a significant amount of uh uh information technology workforce to US. So uh probably like around 50,000 every year are coming into the country, but uh 50,000 people are coming into the country and you're giving like a 5,000 green cards every year. So you have a 45,000 people in backlog. If 50,000 uh decided to stay in US through get uh PR permanent residency through green card, uh only 5,000 were getting and 45,000 were staying staying in waiting list. And most of the 45,000, probably like a 15, 20,000, like they waited for a few years and then they jumped out and they went back to India. So this kind of backlog, like you know, backed up, backed up, backed up. And uh that's what is happening, like uh especially significantly for India, because they uh uh there are other paths to green cards. So that is a lot of people get married to an American citizen and then they get it, and then they after a few years they get divorced and then they move on with the green card and citizenship. But like coming from India, this like we have like cultural like blocks, right? So it's like it's uh the person the percentage of divorce rate like is significantly low compared to most of the Western world. Now I think it is changing, but uh yeah, that's one of the reasons uh most of the Indians don't take the marriage as a path to green card, they just rely on uh their uh employment or skill uh as a skill labor uh path to a green card.

Larry 8:49

So so while you're in this process for all of these years, you've you've been tied to your job, you're not able to move around as much. That really kind of affects your your growing adult life. You're trying to settle down, make you know, make plans, but all of your plans come back to well, I have to be at this job. That's that's gonna be frustrating for you.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Yes, it is definitely frustrating, not just for me. I mean, I have hundreds, I mean, like, I don't know, all my friends, most of my friends from India, like we came to US like thinking that like you know, we'll settle down in like five, six years, work hard. But uh it's uh 2004 we came in. Uh most of like early 2000, most of my classmates uh immigrated to US, and uh it's not until last past one year they started receiving their green cards. So that is really frustrating. Not many people, even though they have uh they have like a down payment to buy the house, that they were so uncertain that they can't even okay. What happens if uh if something you know goes bad, like you have to sell everything and go back to India? So that fear always lingered uh among everyone. Only very few people kind of like, okay, they had like some sisters or some family members here, so they had a backup plan. So those guys they went ahead and like bought properties or did some investment, but uh we all missed out on opportunities back in 2008-2009 because we were like, okay, we need to keep a job, we can't invest because we if you get kicked out, nobody's going to take care of the house. So those kind of situations we were in.

Larry 10:33

Yeah. So when when you came, it

Chasing the American Dream

Larry 10:36

was like you were chasing that American dream that is widely known around the world. How how has your vision of the American dream changed over these years? So you come in thinking you're gonna be, you know, wanted with your high skills, maybe turn entrepreneurial and and make it in America and all those things. So how how does that change for you? And and do you still have that idea that it can happen for you?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah, it's uh it kind of uh uh watered down, I would say. Uh the reason is when I first was very young in my mid-20s, and uh being an architect, like you always take inspiration from Frank Lloyd Wright and all these people. And it's like, okay, let me get into construction management and then like learn about like Western construction, and then like maybe in few years, I'll set up my own shop, and then like you know, I can grow. But uh for that, it's like the immigration is so complicated that you cannot own a business. And even if you try to own a business, uh uh you you it's how will you sponsor yourself? And then you have to show the revenues for to convince immigration that, like, you know, this business is going to sustain. So uh without any capital, it's hard, and it's a very complex way of like dealing. Uh, so that was not an option. Being an entrepreneur was not an option. So you have to, we had only one path, like just stay in your own profession under somebody until you get your green card. Now, that kind of like during the peak period where we had like so much fire, I couldn't do anything. Now it's like we are kind of watered down, like I'm pretty much watered down in becoming an entrepreneur. So now I have to rethink. Like, since I have this plastic card in my hand, how how should I approach and how can I chase a portion of that dream? So uh I can't take too many risks at this stage of my life. When you're young, you can take risks. When you're like getting old, like you can't risk your retirement. So that's where, like, you know, uh uh I am, and like most of my friends are who are who took the same path.

Larry 12:53

Well, you're in India now visiting. What is the feeling like at this time, you know, with maybe the next generation as far as chasing that American dream?

SPEAKER_01 13:05

I don't think many uh uh immigrants are like from India or China, they're thinking twice to come to US now because they have better opportunities. I see here in Hyderabad. Uh now the the word on the street is if you want to do this, this like Hyderabad is the place. Mumbai is the place. So you have the lifestyles are like we it's like more than I used to think they are on par with the uh US or like Western countries, but uh they're beyond on par, like they are even better, and like you have so much of uh uh access to, you know, uh like you have a chauffeur, you have maids, you have like you know, uh you just make a phone call and like you'll get everything you need, and the opportunities are like significant, like you can make the same amount of money sitting in uh India, uh and then like you have more disposable income than in US or most of the Western countries because the way the economy is moving. So a lot of young generations are like uh thinking priced to move to US or Canada or any other Western countries.

Larry 14:19

Yeah. Well, I know one of the American dreams is to be recognized by the president, and and you've had that honor. Can you tell us a little bit about your presidential service award that you received in 2016?

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yeah, that one uh it's uh it's like definitely it was quite an honor for me to receive that presidential volunteer service award. Uh, that's uh uh I've been uh involved in uh tutoring homeless children since 2011. So I think uh because I've been going and tutoring all of the kids and in 16 I got nominated by this organization uh called School on Wheels, where they have connected me uh with uh different uh uh shelters where there are uh homeless kids. So I used to go there and then after my work, I used to go and like uh tutor because I'm good at math coming from India, so and it's it's easier for me. And uh like some science subjects help them do uh in their homework or like you know, establish their basics because a lot of the biggest thing I noticed uh in most of these homeless shelters and these kids, uh, they have been like uh graduating to higher grades, like say an eighth grader like doesn't know the basics in math. So I had to teach them uh second grade basics of math to an eighth grader, and that was the most saddest part. So uh so you know if you think about uh while children, uh what I noticed was it's uh the future is in kids, and kids are not educated well. How could I select the future looked really scary? And uh, but anyway, this I I contributed my part. I I had some extra time in my hand, and uh I had like my intention to give back, and uh that was recognized, and I received this president presidential volunteer service award. I think it was the last year of uh uh the president uh Obama. So uh I received that. So it's it was good.

Larry 16:38

And and and what kind of award do you receive for that? Is it like a a letter and a certificate? Is it a medal? What do you get from the president?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, you I got like a bronze medal, and uh I get like a certificate and a letter from White House and thank him for the contribution. And uh uh I think uh during it said uh during his swearing ceremony he had a vision for US, and this is one of the vision, and like thank you for contributing in, you know.

Larry 17:10

Uh and and you find other ways to help underprivileged youth as well, because I I understand you're also a big brother. Um, what what drew you into that organization?

SPEAKER_01 17:21

So I moved out of uh LA to San Diego in 2000, end of 2016, and uh I kind of disconnected from uh school on wheels, so I had to find like another organization, and I found Big Brothers, and then I continued my mentoring and like tutoring through this organization, and I continued with that San Diego, so it's just continuation but different way.

Ultraman World Championships

Larry 17:48

Gotcha. Now, in the Ultraman world, you have competed in Ultraman Florida and the World Championship three times from 2017 to 2019. However, more recently you seem to have focused more on ultra-marathoning, and I'd like to speak about that in just a minute. But like any good Ohana member, uh, you recently gave back to crewing at the last Ultraman World Championship. So can you tell us a little bit about your experience there after the COVID hiatus? Um, who were you crewing for? How did it go for your athlete? And what was it like having the Ohana reunion?

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Man, that was like a pretty awesome experience. You know, I've been like for three years, 17, 18, 19, I've been racing, and I've never been on the other side. And what I put Stacy Studer, my one of my like uh my crew members, and Artis Bo, she was my crew member, uh, in one of a couple of Altman worlds, and Caroline Bloom, and I had like Marcos Moya, Siddharth Rautre, and uh I have like a few other friends who crewed for me. Now I I see like okay, I wanted to experience like what I put them through. So I was like, okay. And at the same time, like you have to give it back, like you can all you can't keep taking all the time, like it's give and take. So and I got an excellent opportunity when Cheryl called me. Cheryl Cobb, the race director, she reached out to me and said, like, hey, uh, are you coming? I was like, uh, I haven't thought about it. I was like, hey, one of the athlete wants uh short of a crew, and uh, I think you'd be the good fit. I was like, okay, who is that? And she said, it's Antonina from Israel. I saw her racing at Ultraman Florida when I was crewing for another friend of mine, Siddhadra Outrai, in in 2022, February. And uh she won Ultraman Florida and she was looking for you know uh some kind of support to uh do Ultraman roles, and I was like, I want to be part of that support system, and like when she wanted us, like I immediately jumped in. I was like, okay, I booked the ticket in like say 15 minutes, and uh I said, like I'm coming in. Like it's just like a week before the race. That's when like uh uh uh Cheryl called me. And prior to that, uh prior to that, uh Randy Latsa, he was also he also raced 2020 to Ultraman Worlds. He he was like putting the seed in my head, saying, like, hey buddy, are you coming? Maybe you should come. And then it was like he's been like throwing this. Uh I think he threw my name at with Cheryl, and then okay, let's pull him in. And I was like really fortunate to uh, I mean, I felt really honored to crew for this one of the I mean, like an amazing athlete from Israel, and she has like a really strong story how uh she became a triathlete and how she competes and how she came this far to do the Ultraman World Championships.

Larry 21:07

So and what was it like for the for the reunion, you know, meeting up with all those people again in Hawaii?

SPEAKER_01 21:16

It's a Christmas party. It's like even though it's Thanksgiving, it's more like Christmas for me. It's like you know, meeting everyone. I met a bunch of my old friends, and uh some of them were crewing and some of them were racing. And uh uh it's it's it's it's a beautiful experience. Like I always uh earlier uh during uh we had this Thanksgiving breakfast. I used to be worried about my race and like my nutrition and all of that. I never like relaxed to really enjoy that breakfast. This time I had nothing to lose. I have to be really free and like have that energy. So I had so much of that energy to enjoy the family reunion, and it was beautiful.

Larry 22:00

Uh no now your own races. Um 2017, um you you DNF'd in 2017, uh 2018, 2019, went back for your revenge. There was a little something happening though at your 2017 race that uh maybe affected you mentally prep to prepare for going into that race. Um you wanna you want to tell us a little bit about what was happening at your 2017 Ultraman?

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah, I never shared my personal situation with anyone. Uh I I was going through a legal battle with my ex. Uh uh, like I was going through divorce back then, and also I was uh fighting a custody battle for almost like six, seven years. And uh the legal system uh in India is not in favor of uh men because I think uh the pendulum of like has has swung the other way earlier. Like uh men took advantage of some situations, so it turned into a feminist, uh like you know, uh not feminist, but like uh favoring women, and uh without like considering like you know, uh hey, it's not man or woman, it is human, human emotion. So I kind of lost that battle because I couldn't fight the Indian legal system, even though my son was born in uh US, and then like was married in India, um like in US. Uh, I was fighting battles in India because my son was taken without my permission to India, and India and US doesn't have uh is India is not part of the Hague Convention, and uh so any legal uh judgment in US is not honored by Indian courts. So that kind of uh didn't give me any power to fight for my rights, and I fought it, fought it, and uh not fought it, it's basically trying to get to a balanced platform so that like there is some justice to uh my son in terms of having uh both the parents, access to both the parents. Yeah, but uh I had to give up uh my son's rights and uh whatever uh uh the demands of my ex uh so that uh I can release my parents who are also got dragged into a legal battle because I was not in India. So they dragged my parents into this legal uh complication. So to rescue my parents, I had to let go everything. And this happened just uh the last few months before the race, and uh uh the court judgment was finalized, like say less than a week before my race. So I was so even though I trained so well, I was completely drained like uh spiritually as well as like you know physically. So when I started the race uh um in 2017, two miles into the swim, uh two and a half miles into the swim, I've never puked. And uh 2017 was the perfect uh water conditions uh for uh for the swim section. I started throwing up. I I I threw up every half an hour for the next four hours, and I my body was not like uh recovering, and I don't know what happened, it's just the energy and like there's so many factors my body didn't uh cooperate with me, and that really impacted my day one.

Larry 25:54

But uh your body was telling you this is not the time to put me under this stress.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Yeah, that is so true. I pushed it, like I remember, like I think uh probably first eight hours. I didn't take, I think like the total calorie consumption was less than 100 calories for the first eight hours.

Larry 26:14

Wow, so it was minus all the calories you left in the ocean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

So it was my body was it was a major nothing was sitting in like uh Stacy, my uh race crew uh Stacy studer, and she was like struggling to feed me, and like I was nothing was sitting in. And uh at the end, like you know, by the time I got my energies back, it was too late, and I was shot by seven miles on day one. But day two and day three, I went back strong and then completed the distance.

Larry 26:49

So yeah, and and and from what I've understood, just reading a few things about you, that's that's just the way you are, right? You're gonna keep putting that one foot in front of the other, and it doesn't matter what battle it is, whether it's the green card battle or it's the battle to get your son or it's the battle to get to the end of one of these races, you you've got a determination, a grit that that you've developed throughout, I guess, all of these different trials that uh that have put you where you are now. And and I guess that also helps you to to go back and and face that race again. And you did something very smart to go back and face that race again is um you were able to reach out and get some help from the uh the OGs of Ultraman, the two original winners, uh Kurt Madden and Artis Bo. And and you started getting advice from them um to go back and and race again. Tell tell me about um meeting them, getting some advice from them, and how they've helped you to get past the the island.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah, uh definitely uh Hawaii, a big island, is a magical island, and you need to have the blessing of Madame Pele and the blessing of these legends, like you know, having these legends by your side is is is quite a blessing, a lot of strength. I met Artis Bow in 2017 during registration, and like I kept in touch with her, and she was phenomenal in actually making me understand like what it is to do an ultraman, the path to ultraman. Like earlier, like whenever you see when it's uh world championships, you want to go compete, you want to show your time, you know. You are this fast, like everybody has that drive, but they have done this, she has done this many times. It's like end of the day, it's the experience, you need to enjoy it. And she taught me how to really enjoy it at the same time in like a pushing your limits. So uh she's she doesn't do formal coaching, but she's like quite a uh she's very good at like you know giving a wise advice where I don't do any mistakes, and then she suggested, hey, Kurt is still racing, he won the first world championships. I'll put a word and then I'll connect you with Kurt Madden. And she connected me with Kurt, and Kurt was like very gracious enough to uh take me as his uh athlete, and he started training me. And uh it's it he's got a different approach because when you see uh an athlete in his mid-60s kicking ass, other like younger athletes, it's phenomenal. Like you have to see him race, like you know, there is so much of uh wisdom uh how you can continuously be that badass at that age, so you can't push really hard, and then like you a lot of I see a lot of athletes they push in the in the peak uh age, and then like when they get to 50s, most of them drop down, right? But uh to continue beyond 50s and 60s, you need to pace yourself. It seems like an ultra distance, even though you're like a sprinter, when it comes to if you want to race long or go long, you have to pace yourself and then sprint when needed. Don't sprint all the time, right? So there's a lot I've learned a lot of things from both these legends, and I'm really grateful uh to have them in my life and in my journey.

Larry 30:45

We will be right back to my conversation with

Episode 4 preview with Shane Duffy

Larry 30:48

Mom. In the previous episode, I spoke with Jenny and Steve Kvand. I know that you enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

At the point in uh 2016 where a friend of mine was um had met up or I don't know what the right name is talked up with a with a lady on Tinder, and she was going to be participating in a triathlon, and he asked me to get along and be his wingman in case things didn't work out. I could help him kind of get out of the situation. And I didn't realize I thought we were going on the watch. But then um about a week before the race, um an entry or uh an email popped up with um, you know, he had signed me and him and myself up to to participate in the race. And I remember that was quite interesting. It was a very small race. I think it was like a 500-meter swim and a 20k ride and a 5k run. But I remember when we did start the swim, um, there was a minimum friend, and um there was two sixty-five year old lines.

Larry 33:15

And we'll be in the next episode and now back to my conversation with mom. As I said a little while ago, you you've kind of turned away from the triathlon

Moab 240

Larry 33:28

for a little while now and been focusing more on ultra marathoning. And you did one of the big ones last year. You competed your longest ultra at the Moab 240. Um, for people who maybe aren't as familiar with that race, can you please describe the race, the course, the environment, and and and things like that, and then tell us a little bit about how your race went.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Yeah, Moab 240 is one of the uh uh one of very few 200 milers, which are like extremely challenging. This race happens in Moab, Utah, and it's a one huge loop uh of 240 miles, and you gain about 29,000 feet of elevation gain, and it's a high desert, and uh you run uh alongside of uh uh Colorado River at the same time you go up uh Mount La Salle and uh it's you can you go through places where you can't uh get by uh by your ATD or a mountain bike or anything, you have to get there by your foot. And uh and the temperatures drop down to what they say is like uh negative, uh I mean like it's uh almost like 20 degrees, 20 degrees uh Fahrenheit, and uh uh the highest goes up to 90 or more. So uh I think uh uh I think when I was approaching mile 200 uh at the top of the mountain, like this year the temperatures didn't like go to go down to 20. Uh it's not 20, negative 20. Sorry, I'm just like it's uh negative 29 degrees centigrade was the lowest like uh previous years they have seen. And uh this year it wasn't uh that bad, but uh the total difference between the cold and the hot weather was like it changed within 12 hours at night. It was extremely cold, and by like midday, and I was like uh getting dehydrated. So your body goes through that kind of uh struggle to adapt to that uh harsh conditions.

Larry 35:42

And and do you have do you have drop bags that you pick up gear along the way, or are you packing everything for the entire race?

SPEAKER_01 35:49

So you you have access to drop bags in eight stations, and the longest uh distance between two eight stations was 30 miles, but majority of them are 15 to 20 miles apart. So you pack things for like probably like uh 15-20 miles, and you cannot have uh a pacer until like uh you know I think it's mile 70. You can only have pacer after mile 70, the first 70 miles, like you're by yourself. And uh yeah, uh it's uh you go through hallucinations and uh you get sleep deprived, you get dehydrated, you're cramping, and your stomach is not doing it. And I got into a situation like where I was uh I think uh mile 120 or 130, uh when start day three started, uh I was completely down. I was going 20 minutes and I had to rest for 20 minutes. And when it came to a medical tent, and they said, like, I don't know whether it's a hypernetriumia or hyponutremia, but one of those things, so I had to change my entire uh uh nutrition plan. I had to rest and like let my body recover, and that's when I lost my time, significant amount of time, but uh I had to keep moving and I made it. I I pushed it and I had like one crew member for me, like generally other people who had like say five or six crew members, had one crew member, and he was phenomenal. Uh, my friend Peter O'Connor. Um he it's like I said, like, okay, let's give me I need pacing only at the end, or when I'm like in really bad shape. And uh he was socializing with uh people at the aid station so that when he paces me, somebody drives our car to the next aid station.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

So it's like the you had to do our logistics. So one person, how can you do so? Yeah, it was like okay, your task when you get to this aid station, socialize and get hold of somebody so that they can drive to that, and then you can pace me. So it worked out. Uh I guess he's a charming guy.

Larry 38:14

It worked out, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

He's a Canadian guy, actually.

Larry 38:18

Ah, of course. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Yeah.

Larry 38:22

Yeah. I gotta ask you this question, uh, because I was I was looking up some some times for the for the race and stuff. How does it feel to lose a race by two days? I thought the winning time was two days, nine hours, 27 minutes. Your time was four days, which is just mind-blowing. 14 hours and 56 minutes. So you lost you lost the race by two days.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yeah, I mean, like, I really don't care about like it's this race is not about beating somebody's time, it's beating yourself, like you know, proving that like whether you can do it. Like, you know, the longest I ran was 100 miles at Keys 100, and that was and 24 hours. So going beyond 24 hours is a challenge. So I realized that after 40 hours, my body was shutting down. Now the challenge is you know, can you finish this distance? Exactly. How can you finish it? So I really don't. I mean, once you start the race, you're not like comparing with others, like within, like, say after like maybe after 15 hours or 20 hours, uh, the reference is gone. You internalize everything, right?

Larry 39:42

So, what what kind of um things did you learn from this race being so much further than your last race that you can now take forward into other races?

SPEAKER_01 39:53

It's it's a lot of uh mental grit and like your and also uh you need to have discipline during the race. Uh you can't like push beyond your threshold, or like I won't say threshold, but uh racing threshold. You have a my threshold is at 170 beats per minute, but like you know, here during race, you can't uh I made sure that I don't pass more than 140 beats per minute, yeah, you know, across 140. So you have to be very disciplined in your nutrition and like your pacing and also your logistics. Uh and at the same time, you have to be very aware of uh the upcoming weather conditions and course conditions, and whether you're ready, and you have to make sure you prepare yourself, you eat, or like you pace so that you can handle that situation, and like you also get into a situation you're going to get sleep deprived, you have to position yourself where you can take a nap at certain aid station or on the trail at certain ways so that like you're not missing any cutoffs.

Larry 41:03

Yes. And and I'm sure whatever plan you had going into the race probably got thrown out very early because you just have to adapt to what you're getting on that day.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Yes, I did got thrown out in like say I think uh after uh 40 hours, it was down the drain. Because I I was doing good for first 30 hours and then slowly started like uh I was missing my targeted time by like an hour, two hours every eight station. And then like uh at the end, it was I was off by more than a day. Like I was thinking of like a little bit over three days, I went over four days. So I mean it is what it is, but uh things I've learned is uh I think I was very conservative, and uh I think after mile 200, exactly around mile 200, I started having good conversation with Peter, my crew, like he was pacing the last 40 miles, right? Uh and it was like, why is that you are trying to chase the cutoff? Is that your potential? I mean I was walking, I was like, okay, I have like another uh six hours and I only have to do these many miles. I can like just walk. It's like no, you should not have that mindset. Right, you should run with your whether you can run. If you can run, just go ahead and run. Don't try to just like pull yourself back. And I was like, he threw like a really good point. It's like why my mind is working that way, and uh it just changed everything for me. I started running the last 20 miles. I think I had my fastest half marathon, like in the last 20 miles.

Larry 42:56

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

I I I pushed, I pushed, and uh at the last two, three miles, I was running 10-minute mile pace. So so uh one thing we realized during this entire uh race is I'm my own limitation. I keep telling things to my mind that like this is okay, just like make sure you just like uh position yourself before the cutoff and and you automatically like go slow, right? Instead of saying, like, okay, give my potential and then like maybe I'll save two, three hours. Like, so it's all the mind game, yeah, which I figured it out.

Larry 43:36

Uh now for for you, like like so many other people, this 240 mile race started with doing a 5k. So so back when you were um first starting off, doing that 5k might have felt just as proud and you felt just as successful finishing. that as you do now with a 240. Like can you wrap your head around that? And and what was what was it like back when you did that 5k? What was your life like?

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Oh 2013, I was 210 pounds and uh running was not in my book at all. And I just like accidentally got into the signed up for the 5k run. And accidentally were you drinking? No, it's like everybody was doing it like I just like okay I I just want to see it's like you know my company was paying all my colleagues were going and running it's after work so I just jumped in and we had like all the food and everything. So I was like okay let me give it a try. And then when everyone started running I could sprint for two minutes. After two minutes the reality hit me I struggled I struggled for the next 40ish minutes. My 5K it took me almost 45 minutes I would say and I was super proud because I never ran a 5K and 45 minutes I was on like cloud nine or 10 whatever it is and uh it was it was a beautiful experience that like you know I can push my body to do a 5K and uh after that like I signed up for a triathlon and then learned how to swim to so that I can do a triathlon. So it's you as a human like you feel really satisfied and like happy when you can push your boundaries and when you accomplish something which you think that you cannot do. And even my FIK is like definitely weighs more than my 240 miler because uh I I I have I know a little bit about like endurance running and long distance running but uh FIK I had no clue. No clue. And then like pushing myself and like accomplishing that that made me feel really happy and satisfied.

Larry 46:06

Yeah. You suffered uh an injury to your back which possibly could have ended some of this uh triathlon and running career what what happened in that case like when when was that happening and and and what happened? So it was uh it's in end of March 2022 generally uh I I do strength workout and I was trying to do the core workout uh it's like I generally hang upside down and do some crunches and all of that and uh I fell I mean I fell on my head pencil down and I hit uh injured my uh cervical like I think uh C5 and C6 I think and I had like uh the nose were like a little bit damaged so my right hand was numb and luckily my neighbors took me to ER and uh I was fine like I didn't break any kind of uh you know uh cervical spine so uh I it all all thanks to my yoga I was doing uh March madness I was doing yoga every day for like an hour and a half so my upper body was so strong yeah so it's like you know my upper body was strong enough so that that kind of saved me from having a catastrophic injury but uh that kind of put a setback to my race like I had a in three weeks I had Canyons 100k so and I was training for that I was really strong and I was in the peak uh training mode and but uh with this like I couldn't uh run so I basically went ahead and power walked with one hand uh and uh I just like you know if it's hurting and I thought I'll pull off myself pull myself out of the race but I power walked and I got DNFed at a mile 50 I mean like 50k uh I missed the cutoff by two minutes because uh uh uh I paced myself for 50k but uh the 50k mark was at 54k so so that uh so uh at the at the finish line I met a person and she told me that one she lost one of her friends like doing uh uh what do you call this uh uh mountain biking and she fell on her head uh with even though with the helmet she broke her cervical spine and she she died immediately there so uh I was like I felt really fortunate that like I'm still alive even though I DNF I'm still alive I have a second chance now so I was like okay

Barkley Fall Classic

Larry 48:55

and another one of the the races that you've done that not a lot of people get the opportunity to do um but that people definitely look at is the Barclay Fall Classic and this is kind of like an introductory to the to the Barclay marathons um which is just you know kind of legendary in its own right can can you tell us a little bit about the race setup for maybe those that don't know and then uh how how you did um at your two outings at the race yeah the uh this year and previous year I I gave an I attempted Barclay Fall Classic this one is basically uh if you uh look at big Barclay that is called Barclay Marathon it's a hundred miler uh most of the race uh is off the trails so uh Larry uh I mean uh Laz uh Lazarus Lake uh he is quite notorious in like uh putting all the athletes through suffering and uh and when the popularity grew and everybody wants to do it they created this Barclay Fall Classic which is a 50k uh which goes through section of the main Barclay but it mostly stays on the trail and no off trail so and everybody gets this uh experience of 50k you're like climbing 13 000 feet and uh there are like uh three major climbs it's a one mile hike of 2000 feet uh through through briars so basically you're all you're all cut like by the time you go up you're cut so you climb once and then you descend the same direction so you have about six thousand feet of climbing and six thousand feet of coming down the same course uh so 12000 feet through briars on like this challenging terrain and uh he's uh he he gives you a map the day before and then uh the timing and the cutoffs are quite misleading even though they say like oh the cutoff is here if you follow the cutoffs and you pace yourself with the cutoffs you'll miss the main cutoff so he sets you up in certain way and those timings even though they say like he says like it's 50k it uh it ends up being like 60k right so you can't like pace and then he waits he waits at the marathon point and he discourages you to drop out of the race like say hey if you drop out now you can at least have a marathon finish if you continue it's a tougher course next and if you don't finish it on time you'll get a DNF and he he he tries to get uh he tries to talk you into like going for a marathon finish and he did that last year to me this year he again he was there at the marathon mark and I was like I said like las I don't want that freaking smirk on your face and I won't let you have that smirk again and I just ran so it was it was nice he laughed and at the I did not let you have that smirk I finished and I showed the medal and I was like yeah and then it was fun like it's it's it's quite a challenging course like you know once you start the race and like you'll be thinking hundred times like why did they sign up for this race when you're like being cut on your like all your your shorts are ripped and you have like the blood and it's it's a nasty situation going up those uh there's the rat jaw and this a there is a climb called testicle spectacle I mean I don't know it's literally you'll be you'll be on your uh uh butt and then like sliding down and there's a briars and you have a briar and it just like cuts your ribs your shorts and then and then everything's on show yeah everything it's like it's uh it's it's quite a show and people some you have to carry these gloves uh and some people don't carry and they're basically trying to hold on to the briars to go up and it's all like yeah and and you're not allowed to use any electronic devices to help guide you in this race either right no you need to carry a compass and then you can have this Walmart watch the cash show one which beeps yeah that's it and uh there are some aid stations but uh yeah it's it's a beautiful race actually it's like if you are into ultra running if you're an adrenaline junkie and like you know you want to experience a different kind of challenge you you want to understand who you are and what you can how much you can push this definitely one of the races you can try.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

And and do you think you'll try to do the the full Barclay marathons you know what I have a lot of respect for that race unless I'm ready I won't attempt it. I I have a long way to go and uh there are so many people like uh the people who won uh Barkley Fall Classic they they hardly finished first loop so that kind of thing so you need to have that respect not just to go and do it like and say hey I did it when you go you go give it 100% and then like make sure you feel that you're ready and then go and give it I don't think I'm still ready for that kind of challenge.

Larry 54:54

Yeah yeah um you know

Day Job

Larry 54:58

another thing that I wanted to talk to you about was your your job I mean we talked about your job a little bit earlier and how you were attached to getting your green card are you still in the same position now with with the same company or have you are and okay tell us a little bit about what what you do for a living yeah I'm a project architect uh I mean uh my undergrad was in architecture and my master's was in construction management so mostly I was into construction project management and design management right now I'm with San Diego Airport working on a bunch of tenant improvements we have a separate tenant improvement department so I was heading it for a couple of years and then like there is some kind of management shift but most of the tenant improvement projects I handle as I do design management and you know uh kind of project management and everything for uh San Diego Airport tenant improvement team so I'm still there I'm still working on it so now I have more uh flexibility to pursue better opportunities so I'm thinking and I'll definitely pursue and like grab a better opportunity unless if I if I if I don't get a good one in the same position then I'll have to think and do you want to stay in the San Diego area or are you thinking of going somewhere else you know that's the problem the reason why I can't San Diego is really beautiful and that San Diego has given me so much uh it's hard for me to uh uh leave like for example I was telling other people like if you want to leave San Diego you need to get a salary which is like at least like 40 50 grand more than what you're getting so that's when like it might be that's that's the lifestyle value that you put on living in San Diego yeah yeah so even though it's you don't get you're not getting the number you think you should get uh but the value is like a lot it's a lot higher.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

So I've I've traveled quite a bit and I definitely see San Diego as one of the top places to live and work.

Larry 57:24

Throughout this interview the listener will have heard the the honking sounds in the background for your location there in India I I know that one of the things

Living and Sharing Aloha-Ohana-Kokua

Larry 57:35

that you want to do in the future and and maybe I've started into a little bit now as well is as far as working I'll put in air quotes is uh trying to help other Indian athletes I I don't know how much it's on the rise in India. It seems from just um watching from afar that there does definitely seem to be a triathlon rise with the I guess the more middle class rise in India as well. I know that it's definitely difficult to train in India based on like the roads and things like that. In season one episode three I had Abbe Kelkar uh as my guest and he's like in a rural town in India and he was supposed to come to Ultraman Canada and he was on as an athlete in profile. He was supposed to come last year and he didn't come last year and I'm not with Ultraman Canada anymore so I don't know why he didn't show up um but one of the things that he explained was that it it can be very difficult. The the and then opposite of that is this year at the 520 Steve Brown's Ultra 520 in Penticton I met uh Verdant Nangar Nangar I don't want to mess up his name too much. Red on yeah yeah yeah he DNF'd at Ultraman Canada but stuck around for the Ultra 520 and he really found he found the Ohana there you know he was volunteering and he seems like a young guy that's like really going to stick with this and and and do more. So um out of that kind of rising middle class I guess it is you know do you see that this is going to explode in India and what what are your plans to try and give some of the knowledge that you now have and share the way artists and Kurt shared with you?

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Yes uh there is a lot of potential in India for triathlons and endurance sport. The thing is so this country is like known and like people are like crazy about cricket. And uh it's it has like cricket is one sport which is kind of like I wouldn't use a big word but kind of killing other sports but slowly people are realizing that like there are other sports and then like you know they want to pursue that like you know you see some young guys like who wanted to do Ultraman but uh there is a lot you need to learn before you jump into Ultraman. Even though you have done an Iron Man Ultraman is completely a different uh uh you know animal because you need a lot of patience and you need to have presence of mind and uh and you need to develop a certain level of skill set and then especially I think I heard uh some of the athletes uh when they uh go overseas most of these ultra distance races are not in India they are in US Canada you need to understand which way you have to ride your bike not on left side or right side that's a huge challenge and at the same time like you know you need to understand you your body has to adjust to the jet lag before you race so you have to convey in advance and uh you need to have a really strong support system when you're racing uh outside your country because uh the culturally uh you can uh expect something from your uh uh crew or your support but you have to express and like request differently when you come to a different culture so got to be a Roman in Rome and so there are so many other factors you have to learn right not just like learning the technique of swimming uh technique of like you know how you can produce more power uh in every stroke pedal stroke or like how efficiently you can run there are other factors and then when you learn all those things and at the same time it's not racing it's experiencing life it's it's it's actually pushing your limits and understanding and becoming a new person or a better person uh through this race that's what it this race is all about and uh if you look at uh the basic concept uh the ideology behind ultraman is aloha ohana kokoah the bottom line is as a triathlete you need to master three these three words in your life and that that'll make you a better person and that and you're called an ultraman but what does that mean to you you have to be ultra inside before you wear that tag outside yeah yeah that's well said um I guess the the other famous Indian athlete is uh Milan Soman am I saying his name correctly yeah Milan Soman uh we did the Ultraman Florida together uh in 2017 yeah so yeah yeah he he has a bit of a a following I understand yeah he he's a celebrity he he was model and uh he's a Bollywood actor and uh he's got uh he's a bit he's a fit guy and uh he's uh uh fitness enthusiast and he did ultraman Florida and I think he did one Iron Man and he does a bunch of uh uh uh uh running uh I mean like you know half marathon and marathons around India he just he motivates uh people around uh so he's got his own niche and uh he makes people do push-ups uh to get a selfie with him so yeah uh his approach is completely is different so what I wanted to do when it comes to uh contributing to the Indian athletes is like bring in my wisdom because uh there are a lot of details which you can't find in training peaks plan or like a plan provided by an by a coach there are a lot of soft skills you need to develop at the same time one of my athletes like you know the way I do is you have a rest day on Monday you can pick a rest day on the rest day you're I don't give them any kind of uh what do you call uh maybe like a bike swim or any of this discipline but that day he has to cook for his entire family so he has to clean he has to go to the grocery store buy everything come home cook and feed everyone that is what you need to learn how to be grateful for whatever your family is providing you and when you go and like uh purchase food and like you know groceries you understand what you're putting into your body that's when you really understand like why you're performing in certain way if you don't learn that you know even though like you're like constantly depending on like these gels or like whatever it is right as it it doesn't make you a better person. Maybe it can give you like you know some kind of power to do you know adds another five watts but the thing is you have to think long term you you become what you eat and then you have to pick and choose what you eat. You have to know what you're eating. So this is what like I do and there are other things what I've learned in my Ultraman journey. It really pulled me out of my really dark phase of my life and I'm very grateful for it. Like to come out of that dark phase uh I had to do so many other things that help me come out like you have to really understand why you're doing certain things and how they can help you in your personal and professional life or any kind of situation. So it's not just it's a distance like when a challenge is thrown how you handle that makes you an ultraman not just like you know just go and do the distance so it's all I want to teach those those kind of things and then like see relate life with the sport and that makes you a stronger human being and a better person and it'll help you contribute better to the society. And and and that's I think where my intro came from for you as well is that it is very clear that that's that's your path that you you've taken your struggles and learned from them and now you're you're giving back is is there an actual like you you you're talking about having some athletes that you're you're mentoring and stuff is there are you starting to do this as a business is there a a website or a way for people to contact you if if they were wanting to get some of this guidance yeah they they can just reach out to me I haven't created a website as such like I have my own thing manmith.com but there is no link to uh the way I get my athletes is word of mouth and uh when I receive some athlete I interview them and see what is their purpose in racing is it like you know is it just an ego driven or like you know learning and to become a better person because I don't want to waste my time on something which is not like real and it is just like uh going on a superficial path. So I do that I take like very few athletes but eventually I want to grow it into big uh I started this called redesign me so the way I redesign myself I want to as an architect like I I relate my background and like passion and profession and then I kind of collapsed or like a fusion both the things so that I get a better output.

Larry 1:07:46

Excellent well I I think that's a a great way for us to wrap it up today I I appreciate you taking the time out of your your visiting time with your family in India to to have this conversation and uh really appreciate uh you sharing your story with me and again thank you for all your time today thank you thank you Larry for this beautiful opportunity and I'm really honored to be on the