S6E8 -- Ultraman World Champions! Who's your fave?

The Ultraman World Championships are coming next month.  But today’s show has nine former World Champions telling stories about their experiences in Kona and about the lead up to the big race.  It is just what you need to start getting excited or to take a trip down memory lane.   

In coming episodes, listen for some conversations with 2024 Hawaii athletes.

You can go to my podcast website with the following link
https://515theultrapodcast.buzzsprout.com/
to find the full episodes of each of the guests

Kurt Madden S5E3 -- The World’s first Ultraman : Kurt Madden 
Jordan Bryden S1E7 -- The Ultra Spectrum : Rookie to Champion (with guests Andrew Peterson & Jordan Bryden)
Mike Coughlin S2E7 -- A Conversation with 2015 UMWC Champion Mike Coughlin
Dede Griesbauer S3E13 (Part A) -- 2022 World Champions – Dede Griesbauer & Yvonne Timewell
Rob Gray  S4E13 -- Ohana Athlete Rob Gray : Comrades Finisher
Simon Cochrane S4E8 -- UM Australia 2023 Preview & Profile of Simon Cochrane
Kate Bevilaqua S5E10 -- Ohana Guest : Kate Bevilaqua -- Ultraman World Champion 2016
Hillary Biscay S6E2 -- Women in Ultra : A Round Table Discussion
Amy Robitaille S3E5 -- Ultra 520K Preview  

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Ultra TriFest Canada
• Ultra 515 World Wide Championships
• Ultraman World Championships
• Ironman World Championships 
• Ultraman Canada
• AMP Human https://amphuman.com/discount/JORDAN15 CODE :JORDAN15
• Psoas Recovery https://www.alethahealth.com/?ref=relentless. CODE: relentless
• JordanBryden.com
• UB 515 
• Ultraman Florida 
• IM Frankfurt
• IM Cozumel
• IM Cancun
• Ultraman Wales
• Smashfest Queen
• UM Australia
• Athletic Peak
• Badwater

Shout outs and mentions in this episode:

• Dave Scott
• Scott Molina 
• Scott TInley
• Stu Mittleman
• Alexandre Riberio
• Jonas Colting
• Steve King (S1E1) (S1E2) (S1E3)
• Mike LeRoux
• Slater Fletcher
• Miro Kregar
• Jane Bockus  (S1E4)
• Amber Monforte
• Hillary Biscay (S6E2)
• Ardis Bow
• Kevin Cutjar
• Tara Norton
• Leanda Cave (S1E8)
• Antonina Reznikov
• Matt Bottrill 
• Barry Berg  (S1E9)
• Inaki de la Parra
• Arnaud Selukov (S2E3)
• Jeremy Howard (S2E8) 
• Ian Hersey
• Carl Read
• Steve Brown (S2E13)
• Steve Ledger
• Larissa Cochrane
• Richard Thompson
• Nicole Meier
• Michael W. Mahoney
• Laura Mahoney
• Pat Robitaille
• Amy’s Mom 
• AA Girard
• Michelle Vesterby (S5E12)
• Emma Lucy Centino (S6E1)
• Shane Mascarin (S2E4)
• Mark Moody
• Keri Mandel
• Jen Annett

Show Contributors:

Host : Larry Ryan 
Contributing Raconteur : Steve King
Announcer : Mary Jo Dionne
Production : 5Five Enterprises
Music  :  Run by 331

For show notes and past guests, please visit the Podcast Website: https://515theultrapodcast.buzzsprout.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/515TheUltraPodcast
Insta : 515theultrapodcast
Email : 515Ultraman@gmail.com

Transcript

Ultra TriFest Canada information

Larry 0:06

I would have to check out my new five.

Opening

Larry 1:43

Today I'm sharing snippets of previous conversations all around the theme of the World Championships. All of these guests were champions and all have conversations in the 515 podcast library. Check the show notes for the direct links or listen for the episode and download it wherever you get your podcast. We span the years from 1983 with Kurt Madden all the way to 2023 winners Simon Cochrane and Amy Robotaye. Kurt appeared in season five, episode three. He won the inaugural event in a time of 214102 and again in 1985. When I caught up with Kurt, he told us about how it was in the beginning, how he trained, and what the vibe was like in 1983. Many of you probably know that Kurt continues to race Iron Man and continues to podium in his age group. He also works as a coach with TriDot. All of those things and more are part of the conversation in the full episode. In the segment coming up, he talks about his strategy in that first race and how he felt he

Kurt Madden

Larry 3:00

could excel in this new longer distance format. Here's Mad Dog Madden. So if we can just like jump ahead out of that Iron Man scene that we were talking about, and now the year is 1983. And on January 1st of that year, the internet was put online. Michael Jackson's Thriller is the number one song for almost the entire year. 106 million viewers tuned in to see the last episode of MASH on TV. And in the infancy of the space shuttle program, we see the first ever spacewalk and Sally Ride become the first American woman to launch into space. In December of that year, a little boy named Aaron Rogers is born. And on the final three days of 1983, a 28-year-old Kurt Madden, along with 25 other men and two women, set off to be or set off for the first time on a three-day on a three-day stage race triathlon called Ultraman in Hawaii, with the goal of completing it before 1984 arrived. Does that kind of take you back to the the time and the place? And what was it like in those days at the end of the year of 1983 leading up to the race? How how were people preparing? What were people doing?

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah, that was uh, you know, at the very beginning. So I remember it, I remember it vividly. I think, you know, I had raced well in Kona and uh in October of 1983, and I figured, you know, what the heck? Let's go ahead and uh, you know, have a reason to go back to to the big island and and do this race. And I think for me, because I wasn't winning Kona, I could definitely be in the top 10, but I I felt that I could excel even more. And I knew my competitors, if it was Dave Scott or Scott Molina or Scott Tinley, most of them were not up for a three-day race. So I I figured it was a door of opportunity. I would just uh, you know, outlast people and just continue to, you know, keep uh kind of hammering away as long as I could. So for that event, it was uh a lot of preparation, trying to be very specific. It was definitely for the swim because it's a 6.2 mile swim. I can remember I was fortunate at that time to be a community college swimming coach. So I had access to a swimming pool. But a majority of my workouts, to keep it real simple, I did six times 1650. So I did, you know, a mile swim six times and trying to descend that and do it again and again and again. And I think for me at that age, I was I was definitely a strong swimmer. I wasn't a collegiate swimmer, but I felt real good and open water. I knew that I could come out in front. So um I did that for the bike. It was just putting in back-to-back long rides of 150 miles, 175 miles, and then running. I think the longest run I did back then was probably a 50K, knowing that it wasn't quite the distance. I didn't feel at that point I needed to run the whole distance. So it was just kind of like a lot of zone two training, mentally getting ready for that, um, trying to get our nutrition dialed in as much as possible to say, okay, I wasn't quite sure what was going to happen at that first race, but I knew my strategy was pretty straightforward. It was literally on day one, right from the get-go, just go off the front and put people uh in spots where they needed to chase me. And hopefully I was gonna be able to hang on through the bike and through the run and then finish up in front.

Larry 6:35

And you were studying these things at school and and having a little bit of background in the physiology and stuff like that. What about your competitors? How were they preparing? Were they doing the same things? Were were people copying each other at that time? Or how how were they preparing?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Uh, I don't really know, to be candid. I I don't know what they were doing because I think it was back then it was a smaller critical mass of athletes. I remember there was one great runner there, Stu Middleman. If you go back into the history of ultra running, that Stu Middleman is a name that really stands out. And I know being over in Kona, probably about a week and a half before, it seems like I ran into a lot of people all of a sudden. And so, you know, kind of taking notes on Stu, and Stu was taking notes on me. And I said, like, so Stu, what are you gonna do today? And he's like, Well, I'm gonna go out and run for about eight hours. And I'm like, whoa, he said he was gonna run for eight hours. I don't think I'm gonna run for eight hours, but this guy's an ultra runner, he knows what he's doing. I'll just have to say, hey, I'll I better focus on my swim and my bike. So I had I had some respect for Stu because I knew he could definitely run forever. Um, I hadn't ran that distance on that course, so I was a little apprehensive, but figure, hey, I'll just develop a rhythm, just go with it, and hopefully I would have enough of a lead where I didn't have to worry about someone kind of nipping at my heels. And I think going into that run, I think I had about an hour and a half or two hours of a lead already. So I knew even if we, you know, started that he was gonna have to run very well and I was gonna have to have a terrible run for him to overtake me.

Larry 8:22

And and what was the the energy like in the days leading up to the race? Were the athletes hanging out together or were you guys doing little training sessions together, or do were you were you separated and and in competitive mode? Like what was going on there?

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Well, I think the sport was different back then. It's it's kind of amazing that I'll say this, you know, again, just a matter of fact, it's it's amazing how when money's not involved, there's a different feeling when you're racing.

Larry 8:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

When you put money on the table, it it tends to change a little the tone, it tends to change the tenor. There's nothing wrong with getting money as a pro. But that was one thing I think going into that race, I had kind of reached out to the race director about was there any prize money? They made it very, very clear to me that there was no prize money at all. So here I was trying to make money as a professional triathlete, knowing this was going to take a ton of preparation, knowing that getting over there, I would have to, you know, pick up almost everything myself. My sponsors helped me a little bit with equipment, things like that. And then the recovery after that race. So keeping it that way. Um, again, there was, I think in that first race, there was maybe 30 people. Kona was much smaller back then, but I think it was kind of summer today that people kind of hung around the pier. They got the latest gossip of who was doing what or what they saw or what they heard. Um, so that's what it was. I didn't train with anybody per se. I think everyone kind of did their own thing because everyone had a different thing that they wanted to make sure they could they could get down. But for me, I wanted to make sure that I was very confident in that swim. I wanted to make sure that I knew that bike course and I wanted to make sure that I was definitely familiar with the last 10 miles on the run. Because really, if you think of the Queen Cam, you figure from you know, the airport back into Kona, that was the one section that I really wanted to be familiar with. So it was literally my crew taking me out there and saying, hey, run those last 10 miles. So that's what I did, and that made it a lot easier during the race.

Larry 10:26

Again, that was the world's first Ultraman, Kurt Madden. Thanks for being on the show, Kurt. He now competes in the 65 to 69 age group and is still tearing it up. If you want to listen to that full conversation, check out season five, episode three.

Jordan Bryden

Larry 10:47

Next is a Canadian pro triathlete who still holds the Ultraman Canada swim record of 219-40 from 2019. The same year that he won the world championship. In a time of 23, 24, 46. He started triathlon at the ripe old age of nine and has been racing competitively since he was 15. He's won numerous national titles and a junior X-TERA title and has landed on the podium at various distances around the world. This, of course, is Jordan Bryden from Alberta, Canada. In this clip, I had asked Jordan about his thoughts on the importance of recovery overnight in a three-day race and the role of nutrition.

SPEAKER_12 11:39

Yeah, no, that's a that's a good point, and something that I, you know, I do get asked a bit, but I wish more people would ask about. Um, because it's it's the fourth discipline. It's bigger than this one by you can run at the end of the day, because you need to take take that understanding of recovery into the other three aspects. When I am in the swim and I have 3k left to go in an Ultraman like Canada, um, you know, I'm changing my stroke mechanics and I'm actually changing breathing patterns to start to adapt a little bit more to the muscular system that I'm gonna be using when I'm on the bike. Um, when you're on the bike, obviously if you aren't thinking about that double marathon, you're gonna overcook your legs. Um and then you know, you getting through that first marathon, if you overcook it there, like you're not gonna get through that second marathon. So um those points in the race, you have to already be planning whatever it is for you that recovery comes into play. Um, for myself, I then also after day one, you know, immediately eat. That's the first thing. You don't feel like eating coming across that line. Like you really, really don't feel like eating. Um, at least I don't. And it's just about like getting as much of you as you possibly can. Like you gotta replenish as many calories um as possible. Um, I work with uh Amp Human, they make a really amazing recovery product. Uh, if you haven't seen like you know, Lucy Charles Barclay using it, I'm sure you've seen one of the top performing Iron Man guys using their cream. Um it's uh it's a really big game changer when it comes to getting your legs to actually re-recover and feel better by the next day. Um if you haven't heard of them, you gotta check out AmpHuman. I actually have a discount code if you guys want to uh use that. I'll get Larry to uh to to post that.

Larry 13:43

Check the show notes.

SPEAKER_12 13:44

Yeah. Um then, you know, overall stretching, um, compression. Uh I do bring a recovery pump. Like I forgot actually what the name of mine is, huh? It's like the cheaper version of the the Normatex. It all does the same thing. You just sit in those for as many hours as possible after day one and day two. Um massage is like good at races if um if it's provided, but I personally I don't actually use massage ever in my normal training, so it's not as much of a uh a big indicator. I do find that um there's very specific areas that I myself tighten up. Um my psoas is probably the worst of those. I've had kind of um a little bit of a history of tightening into my lower back due to different changes um in my bike position, different injuries I've had. So that's something I take a lot of uh uh attention to as well in the past couple of years. I find that I used to bounce back as a kid, like uh like we all did, right? And um, even though I think I'm probably one of the younger guys that's raised an Ultraman still, it's starting to wear on me for sure. Um the recovery aspect, yeah, there's there's a couple different um things you can do uh in that respect, but also just like really keeping an eye on your um nutrition during the day is probably the biggest thing you can do. Not let yourself get too low. It doesn't matter if you drop a bottle, you go back for that bottle in an Ultraman. It's it's you have to like um I definitely lost my very first um long distance race at Ultra 520. I skipped bottles on the first marathon, and I just felt it was so cool, and the you know, the temperature was low, and I thought I was fine, and oh, this pace is so much slower than what I train at, right? Like you tell it goes through your head, um, but then it hits you and there's no coming back from it. There, like obviously at that distance, even the best, even guys like Rob Gray, who have done more of these than anyone, can still make mistakes, not because of any fault of their own, but just like the experiences that you have gone through in the past 20 hours of racing um are probably different than any of the other races you've ever done. And you're they're gonna, you know, they're gonna really stress your body in new and new and exciting ways. So really uh really paying attention to that and always thinking um always thinking a few hours ahead of where you are is super important in this style of racing, right?

Larry 16:41

Jordan mentions Rob Gray there, and we'll be hearing from him just a little bit further on in the episode. As I said, Jordan won both the Ultraman Canada and the World Championships in 2019, adding to his win from the Ultra 520K back in 2017. Jordan appeared in season one, episode seven. If you would like to go back and listen to that full conversation.

Mike Coughlin

Larry 17:10

Next up is another Canadian who won his world championship in 2015. Which was Mike Coughlin's second trip to the world championship. His first nearly ended before it began. While training in Hawaii just 13 days ahead of the 2011 World Championships, he had a fairly serious accident with a car. In this part of our conversation, Mike is reflecting on how he experienced the spirit of the Ohana as they rallied around him after the accident leading up to the race, offering all sorts of help. Which inspired him to a second place finish. And and it's more than I guess your crew that's uplifting you, it's it's this whole race at that point because they all wanted you to succeed. I I I can only imagine what that was feeling like for you. I can I can understand why it would be difficult to maybe even put that into words.

SPEAKER_13 18:11

Yeah, yeah. Um like as I said, I'm getting some goosebumps going back uh um 10 years now, right? It's this weekend or would be this weekend. Um, and uh and it was 10 years ago uh that uh that happened. And it, you know, I can I can just put myself right back in those moments. Um, you know, the uncertainty of of not knowing if my legs were gonna work, uh, you know, when uh in the on the bike and and and then I was pretty sure that this one was gonna be okay. Um, but you know, on those first pedal strokes up the hill on the bike, um at you know, race effort and and in particular uh the double marathon run, I didn't run a step between the uh you know, between the accident and and and uh day three. And uh and funny enough, I ran 80 about 82 kilometers until it was 2k to go and I could my mind uh you know knew that I was gonna finish. And then all the pain, the same type of pain that the that I felt when hit by that car, um came right back into my legs. It was is fascinating, um fascinating to to see that you know, that mind-body connection to to go 82 kilometers and and then uh be okay, I'm I'm gonna make it. And then your legs just like being like it's like people collapsing when they can see the finish line, right? As opposed to when they go across it.

Larry 19:32

But uh your mind just it got to that point where it didn't have to hide that that pain anymore for you. It was like, okay, we're gonna make it, and then it just all rushes back. Yeah, yeah for sure. And and you were in uh in an in the race as well. Tell me a little bit about that. Like you finished second. Um yeah, it was the actual racing part of it.

SPEAKER_13 19:55

The racing was oh, the racing was awesome. It was so exciting. Um uh so the um Alexander Ribeiro from Brazil, who is now the winningest, and I think at the time was the even then was the winningest uh Ultraman world champion uh of them all at six times total. Um he was there, and I managed to pass him on day one and finish ahead of him, but I was still a fair ways back of Jolness Colton because yes, Jonas was there and uh can you know is is uh um a front uh pack swimmer, of course, uh and really strong cyclist. So he was always gonna be out front and and for me to chase. Um, and I managed to take some time back on him from day two, um uh on day two, but not all of the time. And then unfortunately, he developed uh an injury of some kind uh and and was unable to finish day three. Um, so but we were all tight by the end of day two. We were all within 10 or 15 minutes. Um, and I I think I was in the middle of that, um, ahead of Alex, but behind Jonas. Um and on day two in particular, uh that uh Alex had uh he took me aside after day one. It's like he puts his arm around me. It's like, you know, fantastic ride, blah blah blah. You know, make sure you kind of take it easy on day two at the beginning. It's a long day. And and and I was like, thanks. You know, and of course at the time I was ready to negative split that uh ride. It's you know, the first 40k are downhill, so it kind of naturally sets up for um a negative split anyway, with lots of climbing towards the end. Um, but then we get out, I don't know, about 40 minutes into the ride, and he's gone. And he took a he took a flyer. Uh, and I didn't worry about it. Bided my time, I had my plan, and sure enough, I reeled him in and and and we got to the gulches, and it's about a hundred miles in, and that's still another, you know, 60, 70 miles. Miles, what 80 miles uh to go uh and uh uphill. And so I'm like, okay, this is no problem. I'm gonna I'm gonna catch him eventually. I had some flat tires, so I always had flat tires on day two in Hawaii. Um, and eventually, though, I'm catching them, everything's according to plan, and I'm sort of patting myself on the back. But what happens is I get a little bit complacent and he comes back on me and passes me again, and we get to the climb of the um the Kahalas, the Kahala Mountain Road, in the worst wind conditions I have ever experienced anywhere, anytime. Um, and I can't speak for the entire history of the race, but judging from the people who got off their bikes and were walking their bikes, um, it I think was probably one of the worst years for the race as well. It was scary. Um, it was um, you know, uh humbling, I guess. It was, it was, it was tough. Uh, and it co like the crosswinds on the climb coincided with Alex catching back up to me, and he just dropped me on this climb. This was the climb I had mentally prepared for ever. This was where I was gonna make my mark on the event, and this was gonna be great. And I I was I felt like I was going in reverse. Um, at one point, I'm going up the climb, and my crew members running jogging beside me, trying to say some positive words, and he had to slow to a walk to hand me my bottle because I was going so slow, you know, just trying to keep my bike from being tossed off the road. Um, and of course, I I did see the humor in that at the time, even though I was in, you know, not in a good way. Um, and at that moment, I it was a switch that went off in my mind, and I I tapped into um I tapped into my my core motivator, which for me is joy. Um, I don't race from anger, I can't race from anger, it just doesn't seem to work for me. But when I race from joy, it's like, you know, so I scream at him, um, this is this is awesome. This is why we're here. I I love this stuff, you know, and and uh I just dug in and it wasn't pretty, but I I can honestly say I gave 100% of my effort up that climb. Um and then I remembered and I had the one of the only bike rides I did on my injured legs uh leading into that race was the descent from that climb. I got a lift to the top and I rode the 13 miles down to the finish. Figured it was going to be easy on my legs, but I needed it for my nerve, right? Put me on the windiest, craziest spot on this course and let me get my nerve back for riding a bicycle. Um, and so when I got there in the race, I had, I don't know, a minute or a minute and a half to, you know, that I had lost to Alex on the climb. And I just I just went in mission focus, put my head down, and it was arrow or die for me. And I just kind of I don't know if I'd do it again, to be honest, but I just I dug in and and and you know, surfed the wind all the way down and eventually caught him and passed him and put a minute into him by the end, just on the descent. Um, and it was exhilarating. Uh, it was um, but what it taught me was that my not only was I so uh such a negative split sort of um smart quote unquote racer, but I was also a chaser. I like to have somebody to chase. And as soon as I got to the front of the race, it was like I lost my, I didn't know how to lead. And and and and so for me to learn that lesson, because we went back and forth and I could feel the energy change each time. And and so that was something I took home with me on day three. I still had did have a lead, but if you know Alex and his running, um, it was a miracle I was only uh nine minutes behind him by uh for the overall race by the end of it. I negative split the double marathon again, wanting to protect my smart racing, um, and and gave up the win in the process potentially, just to avoid blowing up. But uh um he uh you know I I I walked away from that realizing that I needed to not necessarily come back in better shape, uh, but to um mentally train myself to be comfortable in a leading position. Um and and and that was the missing piece. Uh and I I had a front row seat to learning it. I mean, you know, to watch how he handled all the conditions and all that, you know, as somebody who was much more of a runner than a biker, he beat me on the bike, even though he beat me on the run, he beat me on the bike, right? Um, with his choices and his, you know, is uh the way he executed. So um it was uh yeah. And and had I not been able to recover with everybody's help, I wouldn't have been able to learn those lessons in 2011. And so that, you know, all of those are the reasons that 2011 still has that so very special place in my heart.

Larry 26:56

And and I think we see that a lot in in all sports. Um, generally, you have to get to the big game and lose before you learn how to win it.

SPEAKER_13 27:08

You know, yeah, yeah. And and I always thought it was cliche, you know, pay your dues, all this stuff. And now I understand. Like, like, you know, whatever it is, in my case, it was about leadership. Uh, in, you know, for somebody else, it might be overcoming certain fears or or what have you, but um, it was uh there is also an element to getting comfortable on the big island.

Larry 27:36

Mike has certainly become an important part of the Ohana. He now trains a lot of racers to race the 515 distance as well, and we'll be hearing from one of them coming up shortly. So those lessons that he learned in 2011, they they all paid off because he did get his championship in 2015. Back in the first couple of seasons, I was doing a thing called Steve King Stories, or rather, Steve King was doing a thing called Steve King Stories where he would highlight certain athletes. And we just heard about one of those from Mike, so I thought, why not add in a little replay of an old Steve King story as well? Here it is.

Steve King Story (Alexandre Riberio)

SPEAKER_02 28:24

And now here's another Steve King story.

Steve King 28:28

Amazingly, over the years, we've seen two athletes that have won the World Ultraman title on six different occasions. So I'm going to introduce you first to the gentleman who did that. He had been here just before getting his first win in 2003, but he came back and won the event again in 2005, 2008, 2009, 2011, and his final win was in 2012 at the age of 47. In 2007, he was actually in uh second position to the great Swede Jonas Colting. And in 2010, he was fourth place behind the Australian Mike LaRue, Jonas Colting, and the US's Slater Fletcher. But some interesting things had happened as well because when you look at the battles he used to have with the great Miro uh Krieger of Slovenia, uh you may have heard uh Jane Barcas in her talk uh on this podcast talk about the Brazilian who often ran uh with Miro, and the two of them would run together, usually to um even beyond the 40 mile point and take off at such an amazing pace. One time they were inside 39 minutes for the first 10k. It was just amazing to watch. But in 2012, he he bested Miro, and that was the year that Abba Um Montfort was uh in third place, the the woman who owns the record for the course uh on Hawaii. And uh in 2013, Miro, who was in his 50s then, won the event overall, beating out Alex. And third place uh was Hilary Biscay of the US. And so don't forget, we've had three women therefore have been third overall at the World Ultra Man Championships. I mentioned Amber Montfort, Hilary Biscay, but the earliest winner in '83 and again in '85 was Artist Poe. Now, it also when you look at 2011, when this man had a victory, he bested the Canadian Michael Coughlin and Miro Krieger. And as I mentioned, Miro came back and took that victory in 2012. And in 2015, Mike Coughlin actually ended up uh winning the world title. But in 2010, what was interesting uh was the fact that uh Kevin Kutjar of Australia, who lives in Penticton, won the world title in 1995, but in 2010 he won Ultraman Canada ahead of Mike LaRue, who went on to win the world title that year. And Mike Coglin was third that year and went to the Big Island and won the race in 2015. Now, you may notice the shirt I'm wearing here. One of the things about this gentleman is every year he would bring over shirts for a lot of members of the organizing committee. And I was always always very proud to be a recipient of one of these. And we're very proud of this gentleman because one of the other things he did over the years was get involved in the sport in terms of helping organize. And he's one of the organizers uh for the UB515, an Ultraman distance race in his home country of Brazil. And the man I'm referring to, of course, Alexander Ribeiro.

Larry 31:48

As today's retrospective is spanning over a number of years of the podcast, you will have to work a little bit to figure out when some of these records were rebroken or people are doing different things. It jumps around from year to year, and certain people will be mentioned as record holders at certain times. But as you know, most recently, the records have been broken again. One of those record holders, up until a few short months

Dede Griesbauer

Larry 32:20

ago, is going to be the next conversation in the podcast, and that is none other than Didi Grisbauer. Didi set her women's world record at the age of 52. Didi remains a very busy athlete earlier this year. She was part of a relay team that did RAM as well. She was going to be on our female round table discussion earlier this season, but I unfortunately scheduled that recording for the day of her anniversary, so she was not able to attend. Here is a little bit about the toughness of the field of athletes that towed the line in Kona when she won her championship in 2022. And and it was in uh in a very stacked field of women athletes as well. You know, I was talking to Steve King for the preview show, and he was saying this is probably the best field that's ever been assembled there, both on the men's and the women's side, but particularly on the women's side. And um like, what did you think about when you looked at who you were going up against before the race?

SPEAKER_04 33:35

Yeah, I mean, it definitely motivated me every single day in training, right? I mean, I was going up against Tara Norton, who's a two-time Ultraman world champion. She had more experience than any of us on that course and with this event. And full respect to her resume, she's been a tremendous Iron Man athlete as well, super strong all around. Um, Leander Cave, who made it quite public she was going for her fifth world title. She's won, she's got four world titles on her resume. I had none. So you're going up against a four-time world champion, right? I'm like, well, let's see, four world championships, and I've got nothing. Okay, great. That seems good. So again, great motivator. And then um, I was aware of Antony Naresnikov. I know she went into Ultraman in Florida um trying to get my world record at that event. Um, she didn't come away with it. But if you're talking, you know, world records, she had to have, she hasn't raced a ton. So there wasn't a bunch of information on her, but I I knew she'd be tough. And then, I mean, there's just the whole field, you never know what's going to show up for you on race day. So I knew that the potential in the women's race was very, very strong. But when you get to the actual execution of the race, I just prepared the absolute best I could. And I was very lucky to show up healthy. Um, and very lucky that we executed across, you know, three days and it and it and it worked out. Yeah. But it was a great field. It was a hugely talented field, and that was an inspiration day in and day out in my preparation.

Larry 35:07

Yeah. And when I was looking at the times, you were like third out of the water at 249.53, which I understand was a just a terrible swim for a lot of people that were behind you. Uh, and you were second overall at the end of day one and 14 seconds behind uh Rob Gray. So, and he came out of the water around the same time as you. You must have spent the most of the day with with Rob Gray. Is that what happened out there on the bike?

SPEAKER_04 35:32

Yeah, so I I came out of the swim and looked at the time and thought, oh dear lord, that's just dreadful. Um, I was hoping for in and around two and a half hours. Um, but the conditions on the day were, did they just they weren't favorable? And and thankfully for the people at the front of the race who were, you know, relatively strong swimmers. I mean, it was still tough, but we got through it. I felt for the people that, I mean, there were people in there for five and very close to six hours near the cutoff. And I just thought, oh dear gosh, I couldn't fathom being in the water for that long. So credit to those that that persevered and carried on. I came out of the water. I wasn't really concerned about Rob, to be honest. Um we came out of transition um almost together. I think he was a little bit behind me and immediately shot past me. But on the climb up to Captain Cook, I kind of went back by him and we exchanged. I he lives in Boulder. Um, I know who he is. We've done a ride together a few years ago, but I don't know him well. But we exchanged kind of pleasantries. And for the first, I'm gonna say 20 miles, we were back and forth a little bit. Um and then as we got towards Ocean View, I think I hadn't seen him for quite a while. And I was in front of him at that point. I hadn't seen him for quite a while. But when we turned and started the descent down into South Point, he went flying by me on the descent. And he's a monster descender, like just so confident and poised. And I was like, okay, be careful, be careful, be careful. Um, so he put, I think he was at that point probably two to three minutes in front of me. Like I would still occasionally see his crew. So our crews would see each other quite a bit.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

I hadn't like I hadn't seen him because he was behind me. So I think he was maybe a minute or two behind me for a while. And then he overtook the lead on the descent and was a couple of minutes in front of me. But I did continue to see his crew. And it wasn't until probably 15 miles left on the climb up to volcano that I would start to sort of catch glimpses of him on the climb on some of the straighter sections. But again, I wasn't focused on Rob. Rob wasn't focused on me. He knew who he was competing against. I knew who I was competing against. He laughs and tells the story in retrospect. He works with um Matt Bottrell um as one of his coaches or advisors. Um and our squad works quite a bit with Matt Bottrell um advising on aerodynamics and some cycling specific stuff. And so my coach Julie told me that as soon as day one ended, Rob Gray was texting Matt Bottrell, being like, dude, she's not human. He kept looking over his shoulder at me and tells the story afterwards. He's like, I was doing VO2 Max efforts to try to drop her, and she would just kept staying there. Again, my focus wasn't on Rob, but we we had a great sort of camaraderie after I crossed the line. I went over straight over to congratulate him because we did spend a lot of time in proximity to one another and with our crews back and forth. So it was a lot of communication back and forth, mostly amongst the crews to him and you know, his crew to me. And I went over and I was like, it's a massive day, man, like great riding. And he looks at me, he's like, he's like, you nearly broke me out there. He's like, I'm not sure I want to congratulate you. And we took a couple photos together. It was funny. Um, I was day two when he went down. I didn't see it happen, but I saw it uh very shortly after he was on the ground and like there was a motorist like checking his helmet, not like perceivably for cracks and like head brain injuries. And I actually felt like I was gonna throw up when I saw it. And I put in such a surge to get to his crew, who I knew was up front.

SPEAKER_05 39:26

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

And so I literally put in an effort and it ended up being like a half a mile. I saw his crew and I'm screaming like a crazy person, like Rob went down, you have to go back, Rob went down. And it was, I'm so glad he's okay. Um, you know, there's such a camaraderie amongst the athletes at Ultraman, and you don't like to see another competitor go down. Thankfully, he was okay, and he actually came out on day three to sort of cheer a little bit for for the athletes, which I so much respect for him. So he'll be back. I mean, he was great for me because again, he had experience on that course. And so a couple of times I saw him on day three, and I was asking for bits of advice as I was in the middle of the race, and he's kind of looking at me, he's like, What is with this girl? But he's full respect to Rob, and I hope he comes back. I know he was gunning for the win there, and I I hope he gets it. I hope he comes back next year and gets it.

Larry 40:18

Yeah, and I know the other the uh the other athlete that went down as well, Barry Berg, is like right here in my backyard in in Vancouver. And I was talking with him about oh, you know, how's it how's the recovery going? And he hadn't left uh Hawaii yet. Like he ended up staying there for a couple of weeks to same same as like with you. You can't really fly given some of those injuries. And yeah, so hopefully by now Barry's feeling better.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Yeah, I think he he had said at award he did come to awards. I did not see he was a little bit behind me when he had his accident on day two and was much more severely injured, obviously, than Rob. I think he had a partially collapsed lung, which again you can't fly with that. So he had said at awards that he was gonna be, you know, and it is like everyone's like, oh, Crime River, you're stuck in Hawaii, but you want to get home after something like that. You know, you don't want to be there, you want to be home with your family and your support network. So, you know, my heart goes out to him, and I hope he has by this point made it home. I think mid-December he said he was gonna be able to get home, so I hope he has made it home by now.

Larry 41:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yes, Barry did make it home and he recovered. I know that he still has unfinished business at the Ultraman World Championship. And while he's not going back this year, I'm sure he'll be back there sometime soon. So TD appeared in season three, episode 13. If you want to go back and listen to those, she had a lot of great stories, including an accident of her own happening at an Iron Man. And she talks a lot about the experience of doing the announcing for Iron Man, which I found fascinating. So, again, episode uh 13 in season three, you can go back and listen to Dee Dee on all of her fantastic stories. We were just talking about Rob Gray in that competition with Dee Dee, and he does have a couple

Rob Gray

Larry 42:10

wins as well. He has a 2016 Florida win, he has a second place in Hawaii that same year, and he did win in Hawaii in 2017. So when I caught up with him, we were talking about different racing strategies, and this is what he had to say. Well, let's get into those Ultraman races a little bit. Um, your first one you did was Ultraman Florida in 2016, and and you won it, your first one. Congratulations. Yeah, so you went on to Hawaii and raced there in 2016 as well. Um now in 2016 in Hawaii, what was it? Your second place was it? Yeah, you were second place to an academic para in that one.

SPEAKER_10 42:58

Yeah.

Larry 42:59

Um, so what did you learn from those first two races in 2016? Because you came back in 2017 and uh and you had a really great race. So what what do you think you learned in those first two races?

SPEAKER_10 43:11

Well, the the first race, Florida, was really yeah, for me just to test the waters and just figure out what this whole race was about. So I actually didn't I didn't set out to win the race, I just I just happened to win it. But I really my goals were twofold. I wanted to qualify for Hawaii because I I've always I'd wanted to do that race since I heard about Ultraman. And then I wanted to really figure out the logistics, the teamwork, how the recovery would work between the days and the pacing and all that sort of stuff. So I had I had a theory about how I would execute it. And in that that first race in Florida, that that was really the the thing I was focusing on. I didn't really prepare as much as one should for an Ultraman race. I think I probably averaged maybe 12 hours a week of training. So I I focused on quality, but I arrived not at I wasn't in like super super shape. I was in adequate shape, obviously, but um it allowed me to know what I had to do between then and November in order to really succeed and and prepare for Ultraman. So that was a good learning. Uh a good another good learning out of Florida was to always bring a spare bike, which I did. You know, I was I was uh supported in that one by by Diamond Bikes. So they drove down they they uh a US bike manufacturer they're based in Des Moines, Iowa, and they drove their diamond van down and supported me. So we had all these spare bikes, so it wasn't an issue. And on you know, some part of day two, my aerobar just snapped, which is just crazy. Like, when does that ever happen? Oh wow, and so it was it was irreparable, and we had to change bikes. And I think if that hadn't happened, I would have been inclined to just try and wing it and bring a lot of spare parts, but not bring two bikes to the other Ultramans. And yes, because that happened, I've I've always have uh two bikes with me.

Larry 45:03

Yeah. And that's that's one of those tips that people that are listening to the podcast like to hear and and and learn from so that they they can figure that out. Sometimes people are like, oh, I'll just bring a spare chain and usually yeah.

SPEAKER_10 45:17

I mean, I I bring the spares because you I you you it's really a last resort to swap bikes. So I do have sufficient spares and um that those are coming useful as well. But yeah, the the spare bike is just you don't want to you don't want to prepare a whole year and go to the expense of racing an Ultraman and then not be able to finish it because something happened to your bike.

Larry 45:36

Yeah, you don't want it to be a mechanical. So um so that's 2016. 2017, you came back and you were in the lead after day two with Arno Sulikov uh 24 minutes behind you. And in third was Jeremy Howard, who you had a 40-minute lead on. And um, I think most of people listening to the podcast now they get an idea of who Jeremy is and they know he's a great runner. What was on your mind that evening of day two in 2017 um at at the Ultraman? What kind of strategies were you thinking of for the double marathon?

SPEAKER_10 46:16

Yeah, well, the the interesting thing about Jeremy is he's a great, he's he has an unusual combination of being a great swimmer and a great runner.

Larry 46:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_10 46:24

Um, and then his you know he's a little bit weaker on the bike compared to the other two. He's like he's not a weak biker, but just compared to his swim and his and his run, that's you know, that's really the only opportunity to uh make up time on him, like if you if you're me. So even before the race, that's you know, my strategy was to just you do what I could on the swim because it is just gonna be what it's gonna be. You can't really change much um you know, other than your preparation, and then really focus on the bike and uh you know focus on being able to recover well. Because if I if I'm gonna ride hard enough to put the time needed into Jeremy, which I needed at least 40 minutes, I thought, uh, probably more in the back of my mind, I would really need to be able to ride uh a lot harder. So I'd focused that, I did I executed well on that, on riding harder, and I arrived on that evening of day two with that 40-minute lead, which is a nice, it's a really nice place to be, but knowing what a good runner he is, I knew it was just going to be very marginal um even with that that big of a lead.

Larry 47:31

And and with Arno sandwiched in there as well.

SPEAKER_10 47:34

Yeah, and they and the the interesting thing about Arno is that uh so just it this is where it helps to kind of know your competition a little bit. And yeah, so the the the cool thing about Arno is he's very uh he's a very emotional racer, and he's just he's just got so much guts, he'll just go for it. So Arnaud will leave it all on the line uh to succeed rather than just play it safe. And you know, having spent some time with him before that, I I kind of knew that that's uh that's how he raced. And so on that uh on day two on the bike, I rode quite hard on on the big in the beginning, uh going off the volcano because I knew I knew for sure that Arno would respond and chase me. There's no ways he would just let me go. And it was you know, it was just a phenomenal that he just emptied the tank and he just rode the day of his life. And that was the last year that we actually went up, so near the end of day two, we used to ride up the Kahala Mountains from Waimea. So at Waimea, we would ride up over the Kahala mountain range, and then there was a descent, probably 13 miles or so. Uh so yeah, it's basically a half marathon, 21 Ks in descending on a pretty treacherous road. It's a tiny, very narrow road, not a great surface. It's always got some sort of slick wet patches, and then there's always these gusts of wind that just blast through there and destabilize you. It's it's really terrifying. And yeah, Arno hit, I think, I think it was 90, 90 kilometers per hour going down that hill. And I was just I was just sort of feathering the brakes. I was, you know, my mindset going down that hill is I'm I've I've just spent two days getting to this point. I don't want to screw it up now. I just want to get off my bike, get to the run where nothing's gonna go wrong, right? And I just don't want a mechanical, don't want to crash. And I I sort of gingerly went down that he made up, I can't remember, it was at least four or five minutes on me on that on that downhill. So he was he had sort of emptied the tank. And because I knew that, I wasn't I was sort of keeping an eye on Arno on day three, but I knew he had written his his heart out on day two, and I didn't think he would be able to like do it again on day three. That that was the theory anyway. And then Jeremy was, I mean, I I was pretty concerned about uh Jeremy and I I thought he was uh you know really gonna uh take it to me on the on day three, which he did. The interesting thing, which I'd learned, you asked what I'd learned from Ignaaki uh the previous year, and he uh included walk breaks from the beginning. And he did this run walk strategy, and I you know I didn't that year. And my quads packed up probably with you know 30k's to go. And 30k's is is not a it's not a fun duration to run where your your quads are just totally packed in. And I you know, I thought it took so he he caught up to me maybe at at mile 36 or something, it's I uh yeah that in in 2016. And so I learned then some pacing strategies and the run walk from Ike, and I implemented that in uh in this race against Jeremy. And so from the beginning, uh it it you know, people were looking at me like I was crazy because I was literally like a few Ks into the race and I was already walking. Yeah, I think I think people thought I was done. They're like, oh, he overcooked it, he rode too hard on day one and two. But I just kept it consistent and kept it consistent. And you know, Ian Hersey, my my crew chief, just kept me on that schedule. We just you know, I think it was like 13 13 minutes running and one minute walking, something like that. And you know, Richard uh Richard Thompson had actually uh advised me on a similar thing. So interestingly enough, every single winner since 2016 uh has used a run walk except for Jordan, Jordan Bryden in 2019. But it's uh it feels really risky when you're doing it because you've you're like, why am I walking? And I've you've just begun the race, but it really paid off. And by the time I really needed to use it, that's really where it paid off. So Jeremy, you know, in the first 10Ks, he'd already put you a lot of time into me. The first half marathon, he had put maybe you know eight or ten minutes into me. Um after the first marathon, he had put around 20 minutes into me. So just it was like on the knife's edge. So if we just continued as we were, it would be a tie. So I was like, okay, I can't, you know, I can't slow down at all now. I just got to keep going. And it was very tempting for me just to run then and not do my walk breaks, and my crew just kept me doing the walk breaks, doing the walk breaks, and keeping track on what Jeremy was doing.

Larry 52:30

So dangerous. That is I can imagine as a mathly what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_10 52:34

Yeah, and I would I just had to put my trust in them and listen to what they were saying because my my heart and my mind were just telling me not to do that. And the the the crux of all this was with um five miles to go, he he had finished. So I basically had to run uh eight minute miles exactly in order to in order to beat Jeremy. And at that stage, like when you're that far into the race, it like it doesn't sound like that big a deal to go just go and run eight minute miles, but when you've already got you know like you have 40, 46, 47 miles in your legs, it's it's a rally super focused effort, and it feels monumental. And so now I'm running and I'm sticking to my eight-minute miles. I'm running like 755 pace just to be sure. And then with probably five K's to go, my Garmin just starts giving me all these weird numbers. Like it's it's like I feel like I'm running the right pace, and it's telling me I'm doing like 10-minute miles. So then we had it just ditched, I just stopped looking at it, and I went to old school and they've got all these mile markers on the Queen K. And I was just using it like a stopwatch, like checking my actual miles on the mile markers and using that to validate. But of course, it's not real time, so you only get the feedback once you've completed that mile, and it was just uh you I had to rely on my my crew chief to pace, and of course, when you they're in a much better state of mind. So Ian got me through and he paced me super precisely. And yeah, I got the even when I turned that corner around to go around the finish line, I wasn't sure if I was you know, had made it or not, because you can see the finish line, but you've got to run across this whole like older, and you don't really know how far it is. So I invoked, you know, during school I used to run the 400 meters on track, and so I invoked my inner 400 meter athlete and just did a sprint, did a sprint for the line and just just managed to clench it with with five minutes to spare. So it which sounds like a lot, but what over that distance, over three days, it's really nothing. It's just a yeah, it's an it's a it's such a small margin. And yeah, so Jeremy really, yeah, he he really made me work for that. And it was it was that it was probably the toughest day of my life.

Larry 54:58

Rob was also an end-of-season appearance in episode 13 of season four. It's interesting when you listen to the different athletes talk about the different approaches to the races, and some people are out to try and uh race and strategize against the other athletes. But my next athlete that I'm gonna talk to was just out to run his own race. He has some confidence in the fact that what he could put out there would be enough to get him to the finish line first, and wasn't as concerned about what the other athletes were doing or having to try and break them or use any of those different strategies. That'll be coming up

Steve King Story (Inaki de la Parra)

Larry 55:40

right after this.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Now here's another Steve King story.

Steve King 55:49

Hi everyone, Steve King here. So the person I'm going to refer to now has got a nickname, and that nickname is El Toro or the ball. The reason for that is because he has what you would call an atypical physique for an ultra-athlete. But this is a gentleman who's done a stunning array of sports, including higher life, my tie. He was a professional kickboxer, very much into motorsports, uh shooting and biathlon. In fact, he he was a great marksman and a Mexican champion at uh sharpshooting. He's done a number of I-Man, of course, including Frankfurt, Cosimo, Cancun, but got involved in the ultra distances uh when he began his Ultraman career in 2002, when he raced in the UK in Wales and won uh the title there. In fact, became the first Mexican to take a title. And uh in 2013, he came to Ultraman Canada and was our sixth place there. 2014 he went to Ultraman, Florida and came second overall with a great time of 22 hours, 41 minutes, 34 seconds, and that was to Chuck Kemeney, who uh became later on the race director of that event as well. In 2015, he was very, very sick, went to the big island for the world championships, and ended up uh with a 13th position, but still got he finished with a 27-24-54 blocking. However, 2016 he came back to the world championships, set an amazing personal best of 22-34-18, and won the world title. Now he's trained uh in four different countries basically in the US. I saw him quite a few times in Canada, in uh Vancouver and Victoria. He was a coach there as well, but he's also uh raced, of course, in his home country of Mexico, as well as in Poland. In fact, his wife is Polish. They met in Barcelona, his wife is Cassia, and what's been neat is the family have come to many of his races and acted as his crew. He's now a Triton coach, he's a chemical engineer, got his MBA, he's a fourth generation of a family that is in dairy production, and he's also the co-founder of a Mexican organ donation group, and uh really appreciate what he's given back to many, many people. He's uh an incredible athlete and really nice man and uh wonderful family. It's always a delight to uh see him at the races, and we are referring, of course, to Inaaki De La Para.

Larry 58:36

In season four, episode eight, my athlete

Simon Cochrane

Larry 58:40

and profile for Ultraman Australia was none other than pro triathlete from New Zealand, Simon Cochrane. In our conversation, he talks about some of the background that he had and how he's moved on to ultra events, his professional Iron Man career. And he shares a little bit about how he used that uh training from Iron Man to get ready for Ultraman. Here's what that conversation sounded like just prior to his event in Australia. Well, it sounds like you've uh you put a lot of planning into this, obviously. You're you're a pro, you're not gonna come into this just uh complete the race. You're you're probably looking to go out and do your best. Um there's gonna be some good competition there. I know that you've been training with someone who is a two-time winner at Ultraman Australia in Carl Reed. Can you tell me a little bit about maybe what he shared with you to keep you near the top of the the ranks here at the race?

SPEAKER_08 59:42

Yeah, well I think we're both pretty similar in um I guess the way we approach the I guess just the no bullshit side of training. It's you gotta put in the big days, the big weeks, and we've been putting in the hard work year after year. So it's not coming into it and I guess expecting more than um I guess going in and expecting to do well because I have the background and I do understand how the build-up has gone. Um and yeah, I've done plenty of training with Carl. Um, and I think that gives me the confidence to know that I'm on the right track as well. Um, but as you say, there's a few competitors there with a lot more experience over the Ultraman distance. Um but in saying that I'm confident in myself and excited for the challenge.

Larry 1:00:34

Yeah, one of those uh competitors is Richard Thompson, who's uh been very vocal about trying to go sub-20 in an Ultraman race. Um I'm not gonna ask you to tell me about exactly what you think he'll do on the race, but uh in general, do you think sub-20 is possible on the Ultraman Australia course?

SPEAKER_08 1:00:57

Oh, I think throwing times out there is a s a silly idea, really. Um not only because the every course is different, I mean the conditions are different. Um if you get some sections of the road where there's road works that are different from other years, if the weather's up, um, you know, the swim can be 30 minutes slower if there's currents and waves. But I mean, hey, yeah, I'm aiming to go as quick as I can. And time-wise, I'm not too sure. I haven't really even looked at times or other people. Um I'll just go in and yeah, I'll go hard for three days and we'll we'll see how quick we can go.

Larry 1:01:32

So uh are you going in with the idea that you will be racing the field or are you gonna go in and run your race?

SPEAKER_08 1:01:40

Both I think my strength is um having the confidence in just running my own race and that will be competitive if I if I stick to my plans. I'm I'm confident that that will be uh a competitive race.

Larry 1:01:58

You know, one of the things that really makes a difference between the people that are out there struggling and those that are going out to complete and those that are going out to really compete is the mindset that they come in with and the way that they're able to overcome those things like a a current or a a road work or multiple flats or whatever it is. What sort of stuff do you do uh to to get yourself in the right mindset for one of these long races?

SPEAKER_08 1:02:25

Yeah, I think um some of the hundred mile ultras and twenty-four hour ultras teach you mindset and staying positive very well. Um if you want to run a good hundred mile or twenty-four hours, you're gonna have to deal with a lot of I guess ups and downs throughout the day. So it's just having the confidence and having done that and overcoming a lot of situations in the past. Um but then also in your longer training sessions, it is focusing on the race and just thinking about what I guess what can go wrong, but um staying in the moment. You know, you can only control what's what's happening at the moment, and there's no point worrying about anyone else or anything that could happen.

Larry 1:03:09

Um right, spoiler alert here. Simon went on to set the world record at Ultraman Australia, and he didn't just crack the 21-hour barrier, he cracked 20 by finishing in the time of 1948-47. That is your new world record. And like my next guest, he holds most of the Australia records. My next guest is the female pro triathlete

Kate Bevilaqua

Larry 1:03:45

who also won in Australia, also won in Canada an outright win, and has also won a world championship in 2015 with a time of 24, 16, 27. I am, of course, speaking about uh Kate Bevelaca from Perth, Australia, who's been on the show a couple times. Kate is known around the uh 515 circles as the last person who was accepted into the Ultraman World Championship without a qualifying race, as she did the Ultra 520K race the year previous. And that's just one of the things we talked about in season five, episode 10, when we were talking her ultra 515 career. Um, unlike you, who somehow snuck their way into Ultraman Worlds after a 520K Canada.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Um I feel like I might have been the last person to be able to say that.

Larry 1:04:54

I I think you may have been, yeah. Um what what did you learn in Canada? Because you're, you know, you're always learning, and and I think you talked about some of the things that went wrong for you in Canada, despite the fact that everybody thought it went perfect. What kind of things did you learn in Canada that then helped you in Hawaii to go there and and become the women's champion um at the world championship?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

Um, so just it just backing up a little bit what you said about getting into the world champs. I had originally when I signed up for Canada, it was Ultraman Canada. So it was during the time that I had registered for the events that it actually changed. So um Steve had contacted me and said, Look, this is the situation now. And I was said, No, I'm still committed, you know, I want this is what I want to do. Um so I feel like that um had been taken a little bit into consideration with being able to go to um to when Steve Brown was doing the Ultraman Canada and switched it over to Ultra Five Twenty when he left the branding.

Larry 1:05:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Correct. Yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah. So then I had to explain to Simon, yeah, you might have to do another one. Which was fine. I mean, why not? You can do it. But Hawaii again, I had spent some time on the island with the Iron Man, and I was going but not racing leading up to the event. So I was had a good opportunity to ride quite a bit of the course, which really helped. But again, I would say it was I took away my learnings from Canada, but there were then that there were still things that I was like, oh man, like did I really do that or I should have done this? Um that I used again for Ultraman Australia, which I feel like has probably been the best of my three times I've done an Ultraman. Um and uh nutrition-wise, not necessarily too bad. Um, but I probably went into the run a little bit overconfident. So I ran too hard to start with. Um and I didn't have a great run. Like I probably should have run, I definitely should have run, you know, 30 minutes quick, 20 to 30 minutes quicker than I did on that day. Um and so I really paid for going out too hard in the in the first marathon. Um and that was probably the biggest takeaway uh from that and that course and that wet, like you one side of the island, you're boiling hot, and the next side, you know, we had pouring rain. And I I had like jackets and leg holmers on for you know the long ride on day two that I didn't end up taking off. Um so it's like they say the island has, you know, every every climate of the world in it, and you pretty much get it when you do that course. Um so I did come away with the victory, um, and I was you know very glad and very happy with that, but it wasn't um, yeah, it again, it hadn't quite hit where I wanted I thought I was capable of doing.

Larry 1:08:07

Yeah. And and the year previous, uh 2015, Hilary Biscay had won the race that year. Had you gone back to her again before going to Hawaii to seek specific Hawaii advice, or did you already get that when talking to her earlier?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

No, I no, I I see I I mean I was seeing her in Hawaii every year at the Iron Man World Champs. Um even if we weren't racing, you know, we were there. Um so I was always picking her brain with questions about yeah, the course and you know, strategies and things you could do and little things like um, so I didn't do it in Hawaii, and you know, not every athlete would think about it. But um in Ultraman Australia, after day two, after long ride day, there was a pool where we were staying. I actually went, got in the pool and just went for a swim and you know, uh a splash around for 15 or 20 minutes. Like it was like an active recovery session, and it's not something you would think about doing during an Ultraman normally. But it was amazing how much mentally and physically it made me feel better after that day. Um, even if it's just a few percent, that would help further running the next day.

Larry 1:09:22

Kate was back in uh season six, episode two, when I did my special women in Ultra

Hillary Biscay

Larry 1:09:30

episode, where we had a round table discussion. And another one of the people who joined us in that was Hilary Biscay, who of course was the women's world champion in 2013. And during our roundtable discussion, of course, we came back around to DD Grees of our Yeah, I mean I I agree with all what you know what these women are saying for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:58

Um I think you know, each it seems like each each year there's somebody or every two years um over the Ultraman distance, there is someone stepping up to raise the bar in some way, be it in terms of speed, be it in terms of the age at which you can go, X speed, be it in terms of the amount, the number you could do successfully in one season, um, all those kinds of things. And um, I do think though, that's not necessarily like the older the better. There is going to be a point of diminishing returns. And I do, I do think, um, just based on the like hundreds of athletes that I've coached over Iron Man distance and ultra distance, both running and and ultraman over decades now. I I I do think we really need to give credit where credit is due. And I would say that Didi doing what she did at 52 was, I mean, a really a kind of like outlier performance. It's not to say that that will never be done by a 52-year-old again, but that was truly professional. And I don't necessarily think that um, you know, let's go to 56 and 60 and we're gonna get faster. Not necessarily. So um, I do think there is going to be like at some point you're gonna we're gonna go over the over the hump of the mountain, but it is certainly, I think it's it's an event that does favor the more mature athlete, um, not just physiologically, but more so probably if anything, mentally um and emotionally, because um I think often what you see with with like the hotshot young guns who are really speedy, who take on this race where they fail time and time again, if they do, which they often they can come out and have an absolute blinder. But when you see those kind of athletes fail, it's because of just all of the sort of uncontrollables over the course of a race like this, that they, I think, don't have the experience or the wherewithal or the perspective necessarily to grapple with the way that your more mature athlete does. And that is really where your more seasoned athlete is going to have an ex, you know, an advantage over this kind of a race.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

I think that um Hillary made a really important point when she mentioned, you know, Didi being an outlier. And that's probably the same for myself and for Hillary because you know, we come from professional athlete backgrounds. So for us to be performing at the level that we did, in some ways is sort of expected, again, not at 52, but you know, we've had a years and years in a lifetime of doing that stuff. So what we want to see, and what we are seeing now, which is the exciting part, is that um, you know, people that don't come from any sort of triathlon background are just jumping in and doing an ultra-distance event or or doing an ultra-running event. And that's what's amazing and fantastic. Um, and and in particular, you know, more women now, you know, that have had kids and and families and realizing, hey, I can still go out and do this. And you know, it doesn't have to be over uh after they've reached that that point of life. Um mentally, well, look, I don't know, they all say that women are a little bit more they do. Yeah, exactly. Like we read it everywhere. I'm just stating the facts. Um and you know, the longer the event goes, you know, maybe it is an advantage that females have.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:25

The longer it goes, the more it becomes a mental game, right? And so therein, you know, potentially I think lies our advantage. Um but to Kate's point about you, I mean Dee Dee, for example, she highlights an important point there, is and this is something that I always you know, my my apparel brand is fortunate enough to sponsor Didi, so I get to be on a lot of Zoom calls with her. And one thing I always really highlight about um that I think is just so important people to understand is that Dee Dee is a case study in what the the results sort of and the look like if you're doing absolutely everything right in the form of you know prehab, rehab, recovery, nutrition. I mean, you name it, she checks every single box every day 247-365. And and if you want to know what that will get you at, you know, 52, 53, that that that's what it gets you by do, but it is a an absolute like full-time job. I mean, she is just and she's she's been approaching the sport that way. Uh we turned pro the same year for you know 20 years. Um and her discipline and level of commitment is truly you know second to none. And that's that is no small part of her her success over you know this distance as well.

Larry 1:15:02

Again, if you want to hear more of that fascinating discussion with the women in ultra round table discussion, that was season six, episode two. And I think they really got to some of the stuff there about the hard work that goes into it, whether it is the professional athlete, like many of these are that are in the episode today, or if it is more the weekend warrior that is striving to be at the top of the podium as well. It is pretty much a full-time job doing the training alone. Coming up after this short break, we're gonna hear from Simon Cochrane again after his Ultraman Australia victory, but before he went to Hawaii. And we'll also catch up with the co-winner of the 2023 Ultraman World Championships on the female side, Amy Robotai, who I also spoke to after her qualifying race.

Support the show

Larry 1:16:00

That right after this. I love getting your feedback and suggestions for the podcast. We started today with Kurt

Simon Cochrane part 2

Larry 1:17:00

Madden, the very first Ultraman in the history of the world back in 1983. So I thought we would finish off by having some more words from our most recent champions at the World Championship, and that is, of course, Simon Cochrane and Amy Robotai. I caught up with Simon after the Ultraman Australia race as well. Before he went to the World Championship, and this is what he had to say. My next guest is the 2023 men's champion of UM Australia, who most followers of 515 around the world will know as the new world record holder for the 515 distance. This is New Zealand's Simon Cochrane. Welcome back, Simon.

SPEAKER_09 1:17:50

Thanks, Alright. Good to chat to you again. Yeah.

Larry 1:17:54

You know, I I would just like to set this up for the listener by sharing your your times first. So please indulge me. I'm sure you've been hearing these quite a bit lately, but uh just give me a second to run through some of these amazing times that you did. Uh your swim time was at 227.04, followed by a sub-4 bike on day one at 357.06, which is the fastest bike time for that race. And that gave you a total time on day one of 624.10 uh again, fastest time. Uh in day two, you did a 718.30, fastest time at the race ever. And in day three, you had your first marathon done at 258 and finished in a time of 606.07, uh, besting the previous double marathon by 23 minutes. So that gave you a total time of 1948 to 47, shattering the record by over an hour and a half, and making you the only person on the planet to complete a 515 in under 20 hours. Um The only segment there you didn't set a record in was the swim, and apparently you missed that by two minutes. How does it feel to be uh a person that has done something that no other human in history has ever done? I mean, has this accomplishment set in for you yet?

SPEAKER_09 1:19:20

Yeah, I'll just quickly on one thing there. Um, Steve Ledger rode four minutes quicker than me on day two, so he's the record holder for the day two bike. But we both went under the record by 25 minutes. So apart from that, it was all spot on.

Larry 1:19:36

Congratulations, Steve.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:38

Yeah, he had a very strong ride. And he also did the run and he crashed on day one and had a fractured pelvis. So yeah, solid finish for him.

Larry 1:19:50

Very solid finish, yeah. Um so has this been for you?

SPEAKER_09 1:19:56

Yeah, not not really. I mean, the race went as well as I could have hoped. Um I'm very happy with yeah, how I managed to pull off each day, recover well, um yeah, reset and and go again and manage to, I guess, fuel and recover well enough to put together a pretty solid run on day three.

Larry 1:20:17

Yeah, in in our previous conversation, you did say that you felt that you had trained correctly and that you fully understood the race demands and in all aspects of the race, even though this is your first time doing the distance. You've had that experience with Carl Reed. Um, you did some really big blocks of training and not always in the best conditions, you told me. So, do you feel like maybe even that played a little bit into this race for you? Being able to overcome like the weather that you guys were facing.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:46

Yeah, big time. I mean, the swim uh had quite a lot of swell, quite a lot of chop, so the conditions weren't overly fast there. And then both days on the bike were windy as hell, and we got some big downpours of rain, so we had slippery roads, we had a lot of debris on the road, some road works to contend with. Um, and it was just yeah, raining on and off all weekend, but the temperatures were nice compared to New Zealand. So even though those conditions were rough, it was still, you know, between 18 and 22 degrees. So it was never cold, it was never too uncomfortable.

Larry 1:21:21

Yeah. So you must feel like you still ended up leaving a little bit of time out there due to the conditions and stuff like that. Um I didn't ask you previously if you had a time goal, but did you meet your time goal? Were you were you on track?

SPEAKER_09 1:21:36

I never had a time goal going in. The time was the goal was to just go as quick as I can. And I was thinking that would be under 21 hours. I was confident to do that, but I didn't think going under 20 would happen really on that course. Um so to go under by 12 minutes, and I also took a wrong turn on day one on the bike and did an extra 1.6k. So there's definitely a bit more time on the table.

Larry 1:22:01

Yeah. Now you you felt like you were prepared, as I said, and that's a strength of yours as an athlete. Uh, did the race throw anything at you that you weren't prepared for? Did you have to overcome anything, problem solve along the way?

SPEAKER_09 1:22:15

No, can't can't say I did really. Like it did go smoothly. My crew were perfect. Um, yeah, my wife Laritha and mum and dad and the kids were awesome out there in the car, supplying me with nutrition at exactly the right spots with directions and a bit of motivation. And then my three run paces on the Monday were spot on, same thing, carrying two of my bottles. So I had the exact nutrition I wanted when I wanted, um, and a bit of local course knowledge, which helped with knowing what was coming up with the hills and the slippery paths and corners and and that sort of thing. So I would say it went as smoothly as I was hoping.

Larry 1:22:54

Excellent. Yeah. Now, you're not the first pro triathlete to challenge the 515 distance. I mean, especially on the female side. Do you think that there are more people in the pro field that may want to or that should give this distance a go, maybe inspired by your success?

SPEAKER_09 1:23:13

Yeah, I mean, I hope so. I hope it it becomes a bit more of a um competitive race. I mean, I'd like to race some other guys again. Um, it was a shame that a couple of the other top guys uh didn't quite have the races they wanted um and pulled out, I think, on day one and day two. So yeah, a bit of a shame there.

Larry 1:23:32

Yeah. And that was uh Richard Thompson, I think, who pulled out on day two, was it? He wasn't feeling well. Yeah. And and who was it on day one?

SPEAKER_09 1:23:42

Um, another Australian guy, Nathan, who um yeah, was ranked really highly for this race, too.

Larry 1:23:49

So did you find it hard being out front without somebody pushing you along the way? I mean, and uh obviously in your Iron Man races, there's always going to be someone around you. What was it like to be out there without someone pushing you?

SPEAKER_09 1:24:03

No, I I came into this race pretty well focused to get the most of myself, get the most out of myself each day. So no, the internal motivation was there. I was ready to hurt for three days if someone was an hour up the road or an hour behind.

Larry 1:24:17

Well, you know, a lot of people listen to this podcast for the stories of the people involved and for the tips that they can get to get through their the distance themselves. Um, as a coach at Athletic Peak, what would be your number one piece of advice that you would give an athlete preparing to do this distance?

SPEAKER_09 1:24:37

Yeah, I think needing to get some of the bigger one-day training sessions or back-to-back day training sessions in. Um just chatting to a few of the other athletes there. I was quite surprised that the I guess like I talked to a couple of guys in their longest swims had only been around 5K. Um and when you're talking a 10K open water swim, like that is a big step up when you haven't done, you know, at least eight, nine, or even a 10k swim. Um and same with the the bike and run. Um I mean if you're looking to complete it, then yep, that's fine. But if you're looking to compete, you're needing to put a bit more volume into the body, um, and also to test nutrition over those longer sessions and days.

Larry 1:25:22

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And and how was your your swim? Like when you get in those open water swims, sometimes a 10k swim can become 11k if uh you don't have the right guide or the currents are pushing you around. How what was your Garmin reading or what your use?

SPEAKER_09 1:25:38

Yeah, it was about 10.2k, so I was pretty happy with that. Um and the time I think was bang on. I mean, if you take that 200 meters off, I probably would have got the record, but um yeah, it is what it is. There was quite a bit of current and swell out there, so all in all, you have to be happy with that.

Larry 1:25:55

Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure um we just talked about you coaching at Athletic Peak, and that maybe people that have been following you now at the race are wondering if you're taking on clients right now.

SPEAKER_09 1:26:07

Yeah, I've got a I've had a few inquiries this week um and do have a a few spots left, but yeah, starting to get quite busy. But um, yeah, always feel free to to reach out and we'll see if we can um yeah, help out in any way.

Larry 1:26:22

Excellent, excellent. So um what's next for you then? Are you gonna be tuning up for your next Iron Man season? I know you talked about wanting to do some of the other ultra marathons like Badwater. Um what's what's gonna be the next big goal for you?

SPEAKER_09 1:26:37

Yeah, it's hard to know. I mean, um obviously I'd like to go and race Ultraman Hawaii later this year. Um, but it seems that there's a bit of politics into the qualification process around Ultraman Australia and whether it's an official qualifier and whatnot. But yeah, I mean I feel I deserve to be on that start line um to race the the best in Hawaii this year. Um otherwise there's so many other awesome events out there that I can aim towards. Um, yeah, I'd still love to race some Iron Man this year, but also some maybe some multi-day running events, even to have a have a crack at some of those.

Larry 1:27:19

Oh, excellent. Well, I'm sure you've got a a whole bunch of new followers now that uh will be trying to see what your next exploits are. Um thank you once again for coming and telling us about your race and and even in the preview race. Um it was great speaking with you, the new world record champion of 515 distance, Simon Cochran of New Zealand. Thanks again.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:42

Thank you.

Larry 1:27:46

So I gotta say that I respect the fact that Cheryl and Dave Cobb at Ultraman Hawaii held to their belief that everybody has to do a qualifying race through one of the other Ultraman. Races, whether it be Arizona or Florida or Canada, in order to qualify for Hawaii. It probably would have been pretty easy to take a pro triathlete with the world record and put them into the world championship. But they want to protect their brand races. So uh Simon did come up to Canada to race a qualifier. He broke a whole bunch of the records there as well, and then went on to Hawaii and, of course, won in Hawaii.

Amy Robitaille

Larry 1:28:31

And the female champion of the worlds this year is none other than Amy Robotay, who also qualified through racing at Ultraman Canada. Amy, of course, was the outright winner of Ultraman Canada in 2022. Her time in that race was 2447-16. I had the opportunity to speak with her at the finish line. Here's a piece of that conversation. Now I'm joined with Amy Robotai, the Ultraman Canada 2022 champion and women's champion, but the champion of this race. How does it feel to be crowned champion of an Ultraman?

SPEAKER_06 1:29:14

Uh pretty unreal, actually. Not what I was expecting. Especially to be overall champion is something that yeah, I just didn't expect that to happen at all. But here we are. Magic.

Larry 1:29:33

Magic. Got Ultraman in your head, or who. It's usually a who.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:37

Yeah, who was Mike Coughlin.

Larry 1:29:41

Former Ultraman Mike Coglin.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:44

So when he when I met him, he was training for Ultraman Hawaii 2015. So he was uh he was right in the thick of his training. It was about a year out from the actual race. Um, and uh he was coaching a friend of mine who her and I signed up for Muskoka 70.3 together. This is a really big thing. I was terrified of the whole race because it was big and I wanted to do okay. Uh so I was like, I your coach sounds amazing, and I, you know, met with him and told him that I will bike, I will practice biking, but you can't let it affect my running that I like to do all the time, which was he was like, Yeah, okay. Um yeah, so I I mean he put me through some big workouts for someone that hadn't done a lot of uh uh bike workouts, um, but watching his process of training for the Ultraman, getting so invested in his actual race. I mean, we had a party at my house watching day three of Ultraman uh Hawaii. Um, it was pretty special. Um, and I just kind of knew at that point that it would probably end up being in my future. And I mean that was 2015 um and it's 2022 at this point. Um so it's always been sort of in the background there, and um, you know, through him coaching me all these years, my biking has gotten stronger and actually enjoyable, and I will give up runs to go and bike. Um yeah, so um yeah, here we are. I just I decided and I crewed uh uh and my husband crewed for a friend who did Ultraman Florida um in 2020, February 2020, right before there were no more races for a long time. And it was such an amazing experience because it's so it's about more than just the athlete, right? Like, you know, it's and I knew I'm just a sucker for that kind of thing. Um yeah, so I knew at that point, yeah, I'll probably end up. And I mean, this place is so amazing. I knew, and I'd never been to BC, so I knew Ultraman Canada was what I and I signing up or applying to it was a big deal. Like, are they even gonna think I'm you know worthy enough to do this race? And yeah, there were a few drinks poured when uh they said yes.

Larry 1:32:03

That's great. And Mike did come along and uh he's here crewing because that's what the Ohana do. Um tell me, tell me what it was like for to have him here since he's been on this journey with you.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:15

Uh well, I mean, when I asked him if he could make it work um with the other my other amazing crew members, um, and he said, Yeah, I I can make it work. I want to be there. Um, I was thrilled and didn't really, I mean, he was like, So what will my role be? And I was like, I'm not good at signing, designating, whatever, because I just felt like it would come together. Um, and it sure did. Um, you know, even from going through, you know, the course and things to expect on the course, and because I just arrived here on Tuesday, um, you know, his experience here, but also, you know, knowing me for seven years as my coach certainly uh helped. And my husband has told me that in the van over the last you know, three days, um, his you know, knowledge of okay, she's gonna be at this point at this time, his his crazy math calculations also have been handy, and just you know, being it knowing knowing what the athlete needs. I didn't know what I needed in some cases, and he was like, You should do, you know, at this point, you should really be focusing on nutrition, you know, that ride into Princeton, and I was like, Okay, I I need to do, oh man, uh something to focus on other than the headwind and whatever. So um, and then of course, at the um turn in Princeton to go north, he ran beside me as I was biking and said, Okay, your uh garments is 658 right now. The women's record is 903. You have 30k out, 30k back, you do the math. And I was like, Oh no, oh no, this is a thing now. I can't, you know, like how amazing would it be to anyway. So, and it did work out, and there is magic involved in that. Um, but yeah, so to have him, I guess, geeking out on the stats really helped.

Larry 1:34:10

Yeah, and you did set the record with an 845-19 on that day two bike. So that's amazing. I know, yes, like you're saying, Mike knowing the course and knowing you is probably the best thing that could happen for an athlete because sometimes coaches will come but they don't know the course, or people that have accrued before know the course but they don't know the athlete. You had the both the best worlds, and that's probably one of those things that really helped get you to that finish line in first place.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:36

It did. And I think that the other um the third piece, I hate to say piece, but the third piece of that um was that he knows the spirit of Ultraman as well, right? Like he knows how valuable the crew is, um, and how the crew working together is. I mean, uh my crew, I can't even describe how amazing uh every one of them were in this whole thing, and him having that experience and knowing, you know, and it's about the other athletes too in their crews, him having that, bringing that experience in, and my husband having crewed before as well. Um, that really, I mean, you can't you you cannot, I could not have built a better better crew. Um, my friend Nicole was like, uh she was my nutrition, you know, clipboard checking off, you know, making sure and they were problem solving for me on day one I had stomach issues. And um my paddler, Mike Mahoney, was like, I think his is the absolute straightest line down that lake. Um, kept me on course. And yeah, I just I have lucked out to have the support from the people that I love and care about and are rooting for me.

Larry 1:35:50

And that and that's what makes the the race so special is that that you have that instead of the Iron Man experience where they're somewhere on the sideline clapping.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:58

Right, yeah, uh for sure. Um and you know, I have my children at home, and my mom has been watching them for you know the whole week, and uh, you know, they've been shout out to mom then. Shout out to grandma, uh, really um couldn't have done this without you. Um yeah, so knowing that and I mean all the the training for this, just knowing that I have people rooting for me is I mean it's very humbling and very um you know it it also keeps you engaged fully. Yeah.

Larry 1:36:27

Well you you had an amazing race. As I said, you were the overall winner of Ultraman Canada 2022 with a time of 2447 16. Congratulations, Amy.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:39

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Larry 1:36:41

And of course, Amy went on to win the women's world championship in 2023 alongside of Simon. And she was actually second overall at that race. Congratulations to you both. And it's also interesting that the podcast came back around to Mike Coughlin again before the end. You know, I I think probably from the stories you've heard just today, you understand that the Ohana is real. People want to give back. Mike was also there coaching another one of his athletes in Canada at that race, A.A. Girard. And people just want to share what they've known. They want other people to do their best as well, and it's always a great feeling at these races. Now, looking ahead to this year's race, I know that there are a few people that also find crew to be an important part of their race that will be competing at this year's World Championship because they've also been on the podcast, and we've had these conversations. First up is the 2024 Ultraman Arizona champion, outright champion, Michelle Vesterby, who was on season five, episode 12 with me, and she definitely appreciates a good crew. Also, from uh season six to episode one, when we had the Ultra MX preview show, we had Emma Lucy Sentino on, and she has learned that having family as your crew might not always be the best. She's finally got to a finish line and now is moving on to the big island. So good luck to you, Emma Lucy. And Shane Maskerin from Ultraman Canada Fame. He was on in season two, episode four. I know for him it's all about family when it comes to the crew, and I hope that all three of these past guests are able to have good showings on the island. And a couple people I want to shout out who have not been on yet, and that would be uh Mark Moody, who I got to crew with before, and Carrie Mandel, uh, both of which I met at Arizona. Both of these athletes will be appearing as athletes in profile for the upcoming world championship. And by the way, Mark holds his age group record for Ultraman Canada, where he qualified. And finally, you will know that there was another world record set, and that was by Janinette from Penticton at Ultraman Canada this year. She's broken Dee Dee's record. She has the new women's world record with an unimaginable time of 21 39 21. I cannot wait to talk to her about the race she had in Canada and what she's expecting in Hawaii. So that'll be in an upcoming episode as well. You will get to meet Jennanette here on 515 the Ultra Podcast. That's all for this uh little bit lengthy podcast. I hope you've enjoyed hearing from the past champions of the Ultraman World Championship that have been on the podcast. And good luck to all of the 19 people who will be competing this November. And remember that you can check out any of the full episodes that I mentioned during this episode, check the show notes, or go to your podcast library where all of these are free. And what else should they do, MJ?

Mary Jo 1:40:25

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