Citizen ATX
Citizen ATX
Christmas Unwrapped: Heavenly Host
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Get out the eggnog and the ugly sweaters, because Christmas is finally HERE!! This truly is one of the most wonderful times of the year, and we hope that you find time to enjoy it with those that you love. With the spirit of Christmas in full force, we wanted to take a deeper look into the true reason for the season. Join Matt, Nathan, and Stephen as they discuss the overwhelming scene of angels appearing to shepherds in multitudes.
Hello there and welcome to the Citizen ATX Podcast as we start diving into the Christmas season. There's snow on the ground, there's bells in the air. No, there's not. If you're a citizen of ATX America, it is about 80 degrees outside, and it's the time of year where you wear shorts and sing Christmas carols.
SPEAKER_01You will enjoy your two weeks of Christmas in February when it freezes, and that is all that you will get.
SPEAKER_02You will enjoy it. So joining me today on the podcast. My name is Matt Gillum, and here in the studio I have Nathan Wood. Hello, Nathan.
SPEAKER_01Hello, hello.
SPEAKER_02And then also Stephen Vaughn. Hello, Stephen. Hey, how's it going? So with Christmas coming up, one of the things that we wanted to do was to take some time to kind of take a step back. You know, when it comes to Christmas time, even as we were talking about just a moment ago, there's a lot of things that assumptions we bring into the Christmas season, along with a lot of words that we use that we may not necessarily know the meaning of. And so what we want to do is over these next three weeks to take some time to look at these words, to chat a bit about them, to joke a bit about them, but also to gain some understanding of, well, why do we say that, or why do we talk about that at Christmas time? So today, let's start at the beginning, which is going to be Luke chapter 2, verses 8 through 15. And I'll go ahead and read that for you. It says, In the same region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with great fear. And the angel said to them, Fear not. That's interesting always. It's like someone's afraid, it's like, hey, don't be afraid. It's like, why should I trust you?
SPEAKER_01Every time you see an angel appear, it's like they were afraid. Don't be afraid.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Oh, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill.
unknownWe're cool, we're cool.
SPEAKER_02Um, okay, so fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior who is Christ the Lord. And this will be a sign for you. You will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger, and suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly hosts, praising God and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace with those um uh among those with whom he is pleased. When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, Let's uh let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing which has happened, which the Lord has made known to us. So if you've ever been watching uh network TV around Christmas time, you've probably heard this passage because it features in Charlie Brown Christmas, as Linus reads it as the meaning of Christmas. But when we come to this, there are uh several things that I think, you know, I uh it's not often that we talk about swaddling. I mean, I say that. Some of us are young dads here and on on the on the podcast, and swaddling becomes a very close something close to our hearts if it makes our kids go to sleep. But um, you know, Nathan, I mean, for you, when was the first time that you remember watching like the Charlie Brown Christmas or hearing this passage? And what was kind of your your response to it when you when you first heard it?
SPEAKER_01Um I mean, for me, the first time I heard it, it would have been in church. It's hard to say when. I mean, my dad's a pastor, so I grew up going. I mean, I I was hearing the Christmas story from the time I was a baby. So I mean, I don't know. When I when I first uh first started to really kind of comprehend the story, I don't know. The stuff that stood out to me, I've always I've always had this very like Western view of angels, right? Where it's just it's basically just a white guy with wings and that's just kind of in a robe.
SPEAKER_02Maybe uh tragically obese baby. Is that what is that kind of in general? That's what that was in the way I normally saw angels, right? Really? Oh yeah, like the cupid, like fat baby, basically.
SPEAKER_01No, I always I always just picture it essentially just like it'd be like a dude just in a robe with like wings and all that kind of stuff, and that's just what it is. But I feel like if that was it, they wouldn't always have to say don't be scared. Yeah, right? Their immediate response would not be no no no, it's okay.
SPEAKER_02I mean, if there was a clinically obese baby flying at me, I might be a little scared. I don't know. It would be disconcerting.
SPEAKER_00Or just a person flying in from above you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's like well, really just any type of just pure darkness being interrupted by just you know glorious light and someone speaking to you from the sky, I feel like would probably throw you off.
SPEAKER_02It would probably throw you off. I think that in this passage is one of the big things that as you read through this, that generally I think we downplay this a lot. I mean, you if you've if you've sat through a Christmas pageant, usually it's um uh somebody's real sweet and cute looking and all nice. And I mean, real realistically, as you made mention of, everywhere that an angel appears in the Bible, the immediate reaction is I'm I'm a dead man kind of thing. And you know, one of the interesting things about this is when we talk about what an angel is, uh the the very word for angel as used in the New Testament uh is the same word that that's used for messenger, right? So again, I don't know that any of us fall down as though we're dead when the post off postman comes by or whatever. Do we have postmen? I I don't even see mailmen anymore.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we do.
SPEAKER_02I only see Amazon delivery.
SPEAKER_01I don't actually see mailmen anymore. I do see a lot of Amazon drivers.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I mean, maybe for our modern context, many people look at angels like, oh, is it like an Amazon delivery guy kind of thing? But I I think there's something important to that in that, you know, what is the message that's being delivered? Because, you know, the other part of it that I've often questioned is, you know, where do angels get their power from, right? Like I I I grew up as a fan of the Power Rangers, right? And so usually there was some kind of a power ring or nuclear accident of some sort that gave somebody superpowers or whatever. But I mean, uh that's kind of where we look at angels, right? Like, I mean, are they about to have a heat ray come out their eyes or you know, something like that? I one of the things that struck that strikes me as interesting, uh especially as these angels so like in the Old Testament, sometimes the angels were called seraphim, which means burning ones, and and all that really means is that they don't actually know completely what that means outside of the fact that maybe they were really bright and ri and looked like they were on fire. Um But like in the New Testament, when you have this term of angel, uh what I believe is the case is that when an angel comes and presents himself to a to a human being to give this message, you know, he is he is a messenger, not just of a random message, but of the word of God, right? And so you have this same power that was present when God's word uh created the world, right? Like where, you know, when God said, Let there be light, and bam, there was light. You know, it strikes me that when these angels appear, the the power that's behind them is not some kind of superpower or super strength or something like that. It's it is the empowerment that's given by that very word of God. Um so what do y'all think? Disagree, agree?
SPEAKER_01No, I think I absolutely agree, and I was actually just thinking through it. And if you think through all the times that an angel appears, you know, you see it, you see it in the Old Testament, you see it in the New Testament, and every time an angel appears, the person they're talking to never goes, No, I'm good, thanks, and just kind of goes the other way. Right. Like they always they I I understand the fear aspect at first, but after the angel speaks, there's never this question of was that actually from God? You know, like was that actually something that I should pay attention to? They always instead are like, Oh wow, okay, cool. So they automatically receive kind of the truth of what God is saying through the angels, which I find just kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_02Well, as opposed to the FBI warning that's at the front of videotapes, right? Like piracy is not a victimless crime. Yeah, right. Great. So I mean that before. But so yeah, I mean you're I think you're absolutely right, Nathan, that when when we when you see the the reaction to the angel and the interaction with angels, there is this this power that's behind it. There's and and beyond just power of fear, but there's also power of doing that you know, God doesn't tell people to do stuff without meaning. You know, it's it's it's very rarely just, oh well that was a neat that's a neat trivia fact, and you move on with life. It's usually part of this lighting the way for us of the direction that we ought to go. Um and so you know, you have this then and bringing it back to this uh st uh portion of Luke chapter two, I mean you have this angel that comes and the first thing talking about fear not, and then saying, Hey, you know what? The I'm actually bringing you good news here. So um there there's an expectation of movement when something is said with that power. And one of the things that I think really comes to my mind as I'm thinking through this that is kind of humbling, is the fact that if it's true that the power that angels have is granted through the word through the word of God, that everything that that this this being that scares us, that it seems like power that can move heaven and earth, um if that is so much power, then what does that say about the power that we have when we hold the word of God in Scripture and the kind of power of God's truth flowing through Scripture? Um I I mean I it to me there's this association that happens there where you know when someone is is applying the word of God from Scripture, it's not that far off from that same power that emanates from from angels. Now we may not glow or things like that, but at the same time, I I don't know if you've ever been in a a worship service where someone was preaching the word of God and it just blew up your life. Like, I mean, it I mean because I mean realistically in that kind of a situation, nothing actually happens in the room. Nobody throws something at you, you don't get hit in the head with a baseball or something like that. It's it's based off of the the spiritual truth that changes your world. Um so I mean that that to me is is one of those things that it's kind of a humbling deal as a minister that you know I I I I don't have to look at what these angels that what angels do and and what they bring as something that's completely alien or foreign to me. It's something that God in his grace has provided to us to be very close to us, our minds and our hearts. And so um, I mean, what do y'all think about that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think even thinking about like what is your natural kind of thought of it, and then even what is the Holy Spirit kind of telling you about it as well in the moment? Because you kind of can get maybe a feeling. I would think if there's an angel coming near you, think of demons, they're like fallen angels, right? Yeah, so do they look the same, do they not, that kind of thing, and then like also do they have the ability to kind of bestow obviously they have ability, I suppose, some sort of spiritual presence on you. Yeah. Uh so I think the difference though is you'd probably get more of a very obvious negative experience with a demon where you'd want to run away. Whereas an angel, if they're you know, well, I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02When you look at scripture about the way that that demons and then you know uh Satan as the prince of demons, right, um generally the way that they're he's presented is as this father of lies, right? So it's it's still taking that power of language, the power of the word of God, and then twisting it, right? And and that's kind of the nature of what all sin is, right? It's it's something that God created that was good that we've twisted to use for our own our own gain. So that like when you look at Satan in the in the Genesis story, it's the he doesn't say anything that's untrue necessarily untrue, but he does say he but he does say it in such a way that it becomes untrue.
SPEAKER_01Like Well, same thing with tempting of Jesus, right? I mean everything it was using scripture but twisting scripture, right? Like twisting that of context, not ignoring the rest of what scripture says to try to make a point.
SPEAKER_02And I think that's impactful because you know what that shows is that where the the inherent power, even in the the what sin does and what that and what evil can do, is still um dependent upon God's power. Like it's taking God's power and turning it the wrong way, and turning it away it was not intended to be used, especially in human lives. So that you when you have these fallen angels, that's part of the reason why they have power, because there's still this seeming twisting of some something that feels true in it. Like for instance, you know, when you have the temptation uh temptations in your life, the the emotions that are there that drive you to it, those feel kind of true when you're doing them, right? Like it feels like something you want to do, but it but ultimately it's something's been twisted from what its natural use was supposed to be. Right. And so, you know, it's it's an interesting uh interesting thought in that you know you have this unified power that inhabits the spiritual realm from God that emanates from God and is is is um communicated by his word, um, and then the idea that demons would be the manipulation and the twisting of that. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I want to go back to talk about like the truth of God's word. A couple things that hopped in my head is you see Paul in two places. One the first one he's talking about, you know, I didn't come to you using clever speech, I didn't come to you kind of make up these arguments like I'm just preaching the word of God. Yeah. In Galatians, he references it as well. Like, listen, I'm not doctoring this, I'm not changing this. Like, here's this is just the gospel, and that's all you need to do is deliver the gospel. I think that, but I also think uh in Philippians, when he talks about people who are false teachers, I think it's Philippians chapter two, he's talking about people who are not who are who are doing it for their own selfish ambition, their own gain. Yeah, and Paul's response is okay, well, the message is now void because of their intention in their heart. His response is hey, whether in pretense or truth, the word of God's being preached. So it's like that's a good thing. So the power is in the word, it's not in what you're and what is being presented, it's not in the presenter. Right. I think that's an important reminder, yeah, uh, too.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, it kind of stands, it stands on that point of that something that's true is true no matter what. And um, I mean, that's a hard that's a hard reality that our culture definitely tends to have a hard grip with. And then in Luke 2, I mean, the these the shepherds, you know, they there's not much doubt in their minds whenever it's like, no, this is what this is what it is, and you need to go do it. Immediately we're gonna go do this. Yeah, and so then you have this other statement in here where you have uh referring to the angels, the multitude of the heavenly host. So this means that at that point all these angel waiters came out of heaven, right? Like all the uh the uh bunch of mater D's coming out.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it's like a host, it's like an army. I mean, it's like like choir boys, right? It's like uh it's an army.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that word host is particularly referencing an army that and so you so for me as I'm thinking about because you I think for we we do ourselves a disservice when we don't look at scripture and try to place ourselves there in it. And you so you have this dark, as you mentioned earlier, absolutely dark field kind of thing, and then all of a sudden, bam, this this essentially soldier shows up and is beginning to speak to you the true words of God. And then, as much as you already were freaked out, all of a sudden there is a multitude, an uncountable number of angel soldiers that all of a sudden show up, and and they all start saying this stuff like in unison. It reminds me, I don't know if you've ever seen those videos of like the North Korean army and stuff like that, about when they do all their stuff in complete unison. Um, regardless of how you feel about North Korea, that's pretty cool. And it definitely when you have an army of people that are all doing something at the same time, it's pretty intimidating. Um, but in this case, you know, you have you have them saying good things, but still there would be this this humbling and this awe that is is presented. Um But you know, one of the things to that, you know, you may yeah, it might be it's worth asking, what is why would they you would an angel army show up to do this at this point? Because I mean you you look at this, the who who is the audience in Luke chapter two, other than us now, which we have that benefit of. Yeah. I mean, modern day they'd be like a bunch of hobos. So I mean, you can you imagine the full this this might of the US army parading in front of a couple of guys that are hanging out on the street corner, right?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I think it just reveals the heart of Jesus, though, right? Right? Like I the meek shall inherit the earth. This whole idea that I didn't come for those who were healthy, I came for those who were sick. And you see it throughout Jesus' ministry, he's all it's always the lowest people, it's the sinners, it's the people on the outcasts on the sides. I mean, his was best best apostles were fishermen. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like not necessarily a bad profession, but not anything well respected. So I think that's definitely part of it. It's just kind of showing that, I mean, God, one of the first things he reveals himself to is just some lowly shepherds in a field. Yeah. Um, he didn't reveal himself to the Pharisees or religious rulers or anything like that. No, it was just some dudes. And for them, and I think sometimes we forget we read scripture sometimes and think of people as like people in a story from a long time ago, but it's like these are actual people who lived. It's like it was a Tuesday for them. I mean, there was just nothing going on, it was just a normal night, and then all of a sudden all this starts happening. You're just like, what in the world I mean is going on right now?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I do think it it's it's definitely that picture of a world turned upside down, right? That you know, the expectation would have been, well, this marching army of angels would go to King Herod or go to the um to the ruling religious classes, and you know, the the the the Messiah would come marching into at the forefront of this army of angels into the temple to reclaim his throne over over Israel and ultimately over the earth. And instead of that, you have a baby that is born to a young mother and essentially in a garage um out in the middle of nowhere.
SPEAKER_01Just humility.
SPEAKER_02I mean, yeah, it's like each each point of this keeps bringing the cons the the conception of the reader who would be approaching this down, down, down, down. And there's a re I mean, that that's not for the sake of shame, but for the sake of, you know, Jesus and God understood that because his salvation was for all people, you have to hit the lowest common denominator. Um and I mean that that I think when we if we talk about what the the re the reality of grace is that is given equally to all people before God, I mean this is this is how you set the tone to that. That instead of being being this despot that you have to go prostrate before, it's a gift of grace, even in the the with uh Jesus' incarnation as a as a baby, as the as the very lowest uh most uh uh vulnerable uh form of human life that there is. And so I mean it definitely w when I read when I read this passage, you know, th the I and realistically, friends, the reason why we're we're doing this series is because it it makes us it makes me sad whenever we walk through Christmas and things like this story in Luke chapter two become this kind of recitation that's just da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da. I mean it's it for for so much of this this becomes noise in the context of a greater noise of a Christmas season. And the whole Christmas story is designed to make you stop and say, What? You know this is the this birth of Jesus is the second is the the second most central point of history behind his death on the cross. And this everything about this passage tells us you have to stop, you have to halt in your tracks, and then consider you know, you gotta consider these things about why why would these angels come to these the these rabble, these hobos, um to what to what purpose.
SPEAKER_01So and I think also in terms of them arriving and and praising, I mean, I think we also have to remember the narrative that that the Bible was one continuous story building into Jesus and then the life of Jesus, right? And so this has been the plan before the foundations of the earth were even laid, this was the plan. And so the way I'd kind of try to put it is like, okay, as much as it hurts me as an Aggie to say, I mean, Texas making the playoffs, right? So if you're a Texas fan, the next like month waiting for the first game, I mean, it's just think about how much excitement and just kind of like you just cannot wait for the day to arrive. And that's a very small thing, not until the Texas, it's like in the scope of things, like a college football game is nothing, right? But the amount of excitement, and now think about being part of an angel, an angel's an angel host, and for thousands of years you've been waiting for this moment for the messiah to come, and now suddenly that day arrives, and it's like, let's go! Like, there it's it's also just it's worship and it's excitement because it's this has been the point, right? This is what it was all leading to. And so I think that can't be missed as well. That this isn't like for us, it's okay, cool, Jesus was born, we know that, but it's like man, the context of that day. I mean, this is all of the old testament and the people of Israel from Abraham up. I mean, this is building towards us. Yeah, I mean, it it's it's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that's when you when you hear the Christmas song that talks about Israel's consolation, that's part of what that means, is just is the satisfaction of of waiting, right? Um there's there's another classical song called Jesus um oh gosh, Jesus gift of man's desiring, I think is what it's called. But I mean there there is this, there is a very real yearning that comes from this. And and what what I see in this passage is a great unifying of a lot of things. Whereas in our world, we like we love identity politics, we love we love being able to say, well, I'm part of this team, I'm part of this team, I'm this part of this team. In Jesus and even in his in his coming and his approach coming to coming to the earth, um you have all of these disparate parties and elements brought together, that all of it comes together at the foot of the foot of the cross and then and at the manger. That you know, as as much as we would build up our importance, there are beings way more important than us that are praising him. And as much as we think we may be weak, he came to people who are certainly weaker than us. And so, uh, you know, from that, I I think what it does for us when we really take into account this angel song and the The Christmas season, especially as we're kind of well, we're recording this early in December. One of the things we hope that you'll pull from this is a yearning, right? That you know, we made this statement that the the angel the power that the angels had was the word of God and that that that they were these messengers of that will and word of God. I mean, listener, I hope you know that same power is available to you now to change your life. You know, you made this statement about the shepherds that this happened just rent randomly at at you know this this time.
SPEAKER_01Um well, seemingly random for them.
SPEAKER_02Seemingly random for them, yeah. But the reality is that changed their entire life. And then later in the passage it says that they they did what they were supposed to do. They went and they praised him, and then they walk went walking away, they went and praised him. And uh it says specifically, um let's see, where'd it go? And the shepherds returned glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen as it had been told them. So, I mean, it so this and thing that happened to them changed their whole world. Uh, you see this happen throughout Jesus' life, and you know, you have these fishermen who literally have their nets in the water and he says, Come and follow me, and they're like, All right, drop it and turn around. I mean, leaving family, everything I mean, just leaving everything. Yeah. I mean and so I mean, I think for you as a listener, the thing that that we're gonna be hoping for, and I hope that you'll you'll think over and and ponder to use a good good Bible word. You know, how how does Jesus want to change your life in this Christmas season? How how does the word of God how how is the power that's implicit in it able to come and to change who you are to the glory of God? Um so much of us live a essentially a Christless Christianity where we where we we place our lives into a series of morals and traditions that we just walk through. Why not this year put a stop on it and say, All right, who am I and who is he that he should pronounce this to me? And then what does God want to do in and through my life as a result of me receiving this word? I think that when we as Christians and we as the church start to really take that seriously, and that the the idea that that same power that created the heavens and the earth is designed to be received by us and then messaged by us to others, I think it should just change everything about our lives. So anyway, uh so any any other thoughts today, guys, before we before we uh jump off on uh Sisney.
SPEAKER_01I think you nailed that. I think I think if you're listening to this, I think take a second and and kind of I mean really focus in it. And I would say on your own, interrupt your life, interrupt what's going on, and actually spend time and focus on like I've heard the Christmas story every year for however many years you've been alive, but I mean this is the most significant thing that's ever happened in history. I mean, I mean it's the birth of Jesus. I mean, if you don't have that, you don't have the crucifixion that follows, right? And so it just take time and actually reflect on what that actually meant and how significant that was, not just okay, cool, Christmas. We heard the story again. Jesus is born in a manger, laid in a manger. Great, cool, make you know.
SPEAKER_02And if you're lacking that, the question I think you need to ask yourself is why? What is so because I mean, it is our desire to hope and to want things and to look forward toward things. And so I think it's I think it's on us to consider what things are there that are keeping us from really yearning for Christ. To, I mean, you even use that that um talking about that expectation. It's kind of like the gifts wrapped below the tree before you open them on Christmas. It's part of the reason why we do gifts that way is because there's a desire to have that build up this expectation. Um, and for some of us to go and shake the gifts to try to see what they are. So don't shake an angel. That's a bad idea. Um, Steven, you have anything for us before we leave?
SPEAKER_00All good.
SPEAKER_02All right. Well, hey, thank you for joining us for this first week of Unwrapping Christmas. Next week we'll come back and we'll be talking about the idea of the wise men or the magi or three kings. Um, we'll see some of the depths that are there, but we're glad that you joined us this week for Scizen ATX. Take care, and we'll see you next time.