Citizen ATX
Citizen ATX
After God's Heart: Facing the Giants
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How many times in life have you felt as if you have to over come a giant in order to do what God has called you to? Did you trust God enough to stand in courage in the face of such a daunting task? How did David stand with so much courage when facing Goliath? Join Matt and Jonathan as they discuss the story of David vs Goliath.
Hello there and welcome to the Citizen ATX Podcast. My name is Matt Gillum, and we're glad you're joining us as we're hitting the next episode in the After God's Heart series. Here with me in the studio is Jonathan Spencer. Hello, Jonathan. Howdy, Matthew. And also Stephen Vaughn. Hello, Stephen. Hello. We have been walking through this series learning about the life of King David and how we can learn to grow after God's own heart in the same way. And so this week's passage in the topic of the sermon was one that was pretty common to, I would say, most people, or anyone who's watched American sports at any point. Um, the story of David and Goliath. All right. And so let's just jump in here with a question that I thought, you know, I think kind of dominates in the story. But, you know, when when we look at the Bible and we understand God as a God of love and peace and goodness and be kind to your neighbor and all sorts of stuff like that, what there's an awful lot of warfare in there. Even in the story today, where there's kind of a, to be honest, a little bit of glorification of him uh hitting a guy in the face with a with a rock and then cutting his head off. I mean, it seems like that's kind of the opposite kind of thing that we tell our eight-year-olds in the playground.
SPEAKER_02Now, Billy, if that if that man's making fun of you in your faith, you just hit him in the face with a rock.
SPEAKER_03All right. So, Jonathan, why how how do we live with this paradox of the Bible where you have this God who is a God of grace, a God of love, and yet there is so much warfare involved in the story of Scripture?
SPEAKER_01I think it's important to look at God's character holistically because yes, he's a God of love and grace. He's also a God of justice, you know, he's a god of wrath. There's there's all these other characteristics. We talked about some of this when we were going through the book of Revelation, that there's that uncomfortable side of the same coin of who God is, that you look at that. Um, when you get to this idea of Canaan, I kind of alluded to this a little bit in the sermon, that land was given to a people of promise, Israel, and there were inhabitants there in Canaan, and Joshua was called to drive them out, and famously it doesn't all work out, not everybody's pushed out, and then you fast forward generations, and David is dealing with now the Philistines in this picture, who I said it earlier, they weren't supposed to be in the land. You know, that there were people that were in the land that God had in his judgment and in his righteous justice, he had demanded for them to be pushed out and yes, even even killed. Um now that means that says a few things. It says some things about these people, you know, that there obviously was an unrighteousness, a sin in them. And I think oftentimes when we get into this and we start questioning God's justice for, say, killing a group of people there in the Bible, usually it comes from a position where we think, well, they weren't that bad, were they? And and really I think we have to start there, I guess theologically, is that all of us are sinners and condemned to death, and anything beyond death really is grace at the end of the day. And I think one reason why we struggle with some of these pictures in scripture is that maybe we undervalue our own sin and we don't understand that doctrine of sin, and that the wages of that is ultimately death, and anything outside of death ultimately is God's grace. And so why is he pushing them out, killing them? It is judgment. Uh the wages of their sins, death. They they had warred against God and God's people, and God is ultimately judging them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I do think, you know, when we talk about the ways that that people uh come at the Bible and try to attack it, you know, uh people like Christopher Hitchens would put would point to the this doctrine of you gotta eliminate the the people out of the land, the the uh Old Testament cont concept of Corban, which means destroy everything. Um you know, it can it can be a place where Christians can feel like we're a little bit on our back foot a little bit of, I mean, the same God that you say is all about grace is also asking you to annihilate whole people groups. Now, one of the things that's generally ignored in that is the fact that in the book of Genesis, when um when God is speaking to his people, um he makes a statement that you can't go into the land of Canaan yet because the iniquity of the Canaanites is not yet complete, that the sin of them is not complete. And I think it's interesting that when you're walking through the first five books of the Bible, all every so often you have a person pop up that it was a believer and a worshiper of God, sometimes called even a prophet or a priest, a person like Balaam, a person like uh Melchizedek, um, a person like Job, to be honest, if we're being honest, they usually date date him around the same time as Abraham.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03Um, and so there were vestiges of belief in Yahweh God in the land, but the point being that by the time that the Exodus comes in and God's people come in and it's time for them to take the land, those that were gonna turn to God had their chance and had not done it. And as a and also as a result, had had brought in things like child sacrifice, um a lot of fertility worship that included um prostitution and temple shrines and things like that. It it there's a lot of ugly there that's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01Well, and this is where where you have to trust God in his perfect righteous judgment. If we truly do believe that God is righteous and perfectly true and he's faithful, we have to trust him in his judgment. He is discerning, his thoughts are higher than our own. And when you look at the people groups that that are being attacked, that he calls in this case the Philistines to be pushed out. I mean, even looking at the simple context, this one passage, what's Goliath known for here in this moment? It's blasphemy God. Like that's what he's doing, and that's what ticks off David. And so, even that, I think sometimes we we we want to make those villains the good guys in the story out of our Christian compassion, which is noble that you know that we do love people and that we don't wish that kind of judgment upon anyone, just as we don't wish judgment upon anybody that will go to hell today. We want them all to come to know Christ. Yeah, but at the same time, I think we have to understand that God is just and he is righteous and faithful and true, and to your point, they're being judged in this passage and rightfully so.
SPEAKER_03Well, let's go then and jump to kind of a concept that that I think we notice a lot. I may and I made made um a remark about this earlier when we were talking about the whole sports deal. Um but is it legitimate when when you hear in culture and in art and things like that, uh, for us to compare our problems to this interaction between David and Goliath, that you know, uh what need what needs to be a factor in conflict for us to think about it that way? I mean, is it just because I uh I'm playing basketball against a team that's bigger than me, God loves me more than them, and therefore I should have the promise that I should be able to dunk over this guy who's six foot eight. If God were a good God, wouldn't he let me be like Mike and show them the way? I mean, what like what what is that a legitimate way of looking at our problems or our things?
SPEAKER_01Why and why do people you think do that? I think we have to be careful not to make a humanistic interpretation of this, because the moral of the story I was trying to preach that isn't that we can overcome and that we're we're great and that we have everything it takes. That's not the point. It was that God is great, he had everything David needed, and David trusted in him. I think for us when we apply this into our lives, I also don't want to overstate it to say that there aren't any applications to those quote Goliaths we face every day. I think we just gotta be careful of what we categorize as those Goliaths. You know, dunking on a guy in a wreck game, for instance, that's not the point of the message, but How dare you. But and I know you're saying all that in jest, but I think it is appropriate, though, in our lives to look at battles that we do face and we look to God as the source of our strength, that we need him in that battlefield. I don't think it's inappropriate. I mean, when you read a text, there's really two things you're trying to achieve. One is what was God saying right there in that moment, in that situation, in that moment of time, and there is that answer here when we're looking at David and Goliath and what's going on contextually, but then also through this text, what is the Holy Spirit speaking to me right now here in this place? And I do think it's appropriate at times where you look at that and God does give that reassuring word to us that, yeah, you're facing that giant. It might be a marital conflict, it might be a rebellious child, it might be an unemployment situation, it might be your own temptation, you know, your your sin that's in your life. It might be uh some kind of spiritual warfare that you find yourself in. And God just reminds us in there that that he's enough, that he is strong, and that he will help us face that giant. So I don't think I think there's a balance. That's a lot of words to say. I think there's a balance we've got to be careful not to overstate it, but you also can't understate it that yes, we do face giants and God's with us.
SPEAKER_03Well, let me ask you this from a cultural perspective. D do you think that our culture has an underdog bias? I mean, we we talk a lot about this in sports where it you generally want to the little guy to win. You want Gonzaga University to beat North University of North Carolina, or you want the when you watch a movie, you want the little guy to win. I even think about in like the context of Star Wars. It it's kind of interesting when you watch it that there's this empire that has, I guess, apparently given order to the galaxy or whatever, but we're rooting for a ragtag bunch of teenagers that are the rebels. And when I when I look at that, you know, there's all the there's all these kind of interesting interesting things there. Well, are they is it were they right? Is is are these groups that are rebel groups right because they're smaller than the governing authority? Um you know, I I would argue that we we do have this kind of chip on our shoulder, but I mean what do you what do you think about that, John?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I think absolutely we do, and I think a lot of it is bogus. I I think some of it gets inundated. I was saying this to Matt earlier off the mic. I think some of it even bleeds into from critical theory and Marxist backgrounds where our culture as a whole likes to identify people that are being oppressed by this big power broker, by someone who's over them that's hurting them, and they're they're in that sense the underdog. You know, there's someone with a power over them. I think our society struggles with power and authority figures and usually assumes the worst with them, and then they assume those who don't have it are the good guys. Yeah. And I think all that's demonic, honestly. It's demonically infused. There's nothing biblical to say that every person that has power authority is bad, and every person who doesn't is good. Yeah, but I do think there are some cultural things that have happened in our society that uh make us question every every giant out there and then also always root for that little guy and assume that they're the right one, yeah, the righteous one.
SPEAKER_03You know what's a little country is North Korea. We should feel bad for them, right? We should be rooting for that. I mean, I there it it's just there there's a little bit of a logical fallacy here where just because an entity or a person is small and weak, that makes them right. And I I just I I think that we so oversimplify that. And you brought up something again earlier that was uh off the air, but the the the reality of a victim mentality that happens because we you know all of us deal with this insecurity and this fear that maybe we're not enough. And so sometimes what we'll do is we'll take that insecurity and fear and feed it by saying, Well, you're just you're just the little guy, it's you against the world, and you try to motivate yourself against it, that maybe they're the problem and that may that maybe I'm not the problem. And that brings me to another question. Um, you know, you talked a lot in the sermon yesterday about the nature of uh internal opposition, that it's true that whenever we see the right things to do and we have that vision and we move forward in it, that we'll not only face external opposition, i.e., in the context of that, you know, the Philistines, but that David also faced the internal opposition from his brothers, from his own king, from all these other people. But one of those questions that I think that brings the two things together is, you know, how do we determine and how do how do we see when the internal opposition is correct? Like what about what about when we are on the wrong side of this? How how do we determine that or how do we see that for ourselves, even if we have this kind of David versus Goliath mentality about it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think uh God gives us those guardrails to kind of help us discern uh as an especially in the context of a New Testament believer. I think number one, we have the Holy Spirit in us. So I think it's John chapter 16, verse 8, the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin. So sometimes we think we're really right, and to your point, we're very wrong. And I think the Holy Spirit nudges us in our hearts and convicts us when we think that we're going the right way. He's saying, You're not, you're going the wrong way. But even beyond the Holy Spirit, sometimes we deceive ourselves and we drown out that voice and we start thinking that that we are going the right way, but that's also why God gives us his word. So I think in other words, if you feel like, oh, I'm supposed to go into the battlefield and go take down this Goliath and no one's here with you, and you go to the Word of God and your convictions are not upheld by the Word of God, then I would say stop. You know, that's not a battle you're supposed to be going into. And then the other thing I would say is if you're fighting alone and no one else will actually come behind you, that is a bad sign that that maybe it isn't some opposition from others. Maybe you're the problem, and that's why they're against you, is because you're all alone.
SPEAKER_03Well, and David ultimately, they uh ultimately did have his back. I mean, Saul gave him armor to do it. They didn't they didn't force him not to do it, which was a risk. I mean, you're allowing this kid to stand as your challenger. I don't really know what they were thinking when that happened, other than I guess Saul was like, man, I'm glad somebody else is gonna get killed here. And they bet better him than me. But like there there is um there there is this aspect of it where I think we have to be very careful about the me against the world mentality, um, because that's where echo chambers happen. That's where we begin to to formulate a reality that's not that's not aligned with anything else, but instead is just something of our own making, of our own ambition, or or something like that. Um and I, you know, I think I think it's interesting too, and I I was just thinking about this. So I always I always laugh when I'm reading in a Bible story, and it the the one that yesterday it says when uh Goliath saw David, it made it made a statement about it. What was it? It was uh talk about it as ruddy. Yeah, he was ruddy his ruddy good looks and his flashing eyes. It's like what what are they talking about? But like there is something interesting there where you know Goliath upon seeing the champion of the Israelites immediately hates him. Yeah, it's like he shouldn't have been threatened, and he doesn't appear to be threatened by him, but at the same time, there is this um this general uh mocking, this general disgust that this is what's being sent against him. Because it it seems to be that like when be when this beauty, when this goodness comes out against evil, there is a reaction against that that's negative. And I think we see that often in media and in culture where there is a glorification of the evil and the corrupt and the and the twisted, yeah. Um so that it can be seen as well that's this is that's what beauty is. It's this horrible thing. And we see that the coming together of the two things where a lot of times the the twisted and the the evil and the ugly really is the small thing, is a small thing. It is it isn't really powerful, but it's b but it because it's raised into goodness um or the idea of goodness, that it's that it kind of becomes a problem. Yeah. Um but I think what what what we can tend to do here is that nature what blasphemy is. Because we you know used that w that term earlier, and you know, it's a it's a big Bible word, it's something we don't normally track with. But isn't that what blasphemy is is taking something that is good and calling it evil and calling something that is evil good. And I mean there's a there's a Bible verse that's directly to that about uh what Jesus said. I'm I'm blanking on it right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because really blasphemy in the Old Testament and New Testament is condemned. In the Old Testament law, one who would blaspheme God could be killed. And then in the New Testament, Jesus, to your point, talks about that unforgivable sin passage of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But yes, to blaspheme, I mean, ultimately it's telling off God. Yeah. Uh it's it's you know an expression of slandering God or sacred things. And uh and to that point, that's exactly what Goliath is doing in that passage.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he's he's placing his own strength and his own ability above that of God, and this is your this is your challenger, and I'm gonna I'm gonna kill him. Right. Um and so then you have the kind of this interesting interesting part where David goes to the stream and and picks up five stones. And I think this one, I know you're laughing about this because there are I think there have been like books written about this of the choosing a stone. So, I mean, should we read anything into the fact that David following through on the promise of God that he was going to kill this this Philistine, which again, I don't I don't know that I see in there anywhere where God directly says you're gonna kill this guy. Um, but David goes to the thing, gets the five stones. Anything we should read into that of like the five the five miraculous talents of the great leader or the you know five five ingredients to the best recipe, you know, anything like that?
SPEAKER_01Well, before the five stones, I will say nothing there is no verse that says God tells him, I'm gonna kill this guy for you. But I what I do think, and I think this is a fair interpretation, we're told in chapter 16 that the spirit of God rushed upon David and he stayed with him, like he was there. So I do believe that David is following the Spirit's guidance in that moment where God stirred in his heart uh to wipe this guy out. You know, this guy needed to be dealt with. And I really do believe the Lord prompted David's heart, and that's why David had that conviction was that the spirit of God's with him, and he knew that God's gonna go with him into that battlefield. Um, what what is interesting though with that, he had such strong confidence in that he did pick up five stones. You know, he didn't pick up one, he didn't pick up two or three, he picked up five. So I think that's an interesting picture there where David was so confident, you know, of God and what he was gonna do, but he also understood, well, I'm a kind of a broken guy and I'm just a kid, and maybe maybe I'll miss. You know, maybe I need a second one or a third one. So I think there's part of that lesson of just, you know, give your best, but prepare, you know, around that. Um and then on the five stones, too. I will say I think what's interesting there is he stuck to what he knew. Yeah, like when he went to that battle, he didn't pretend to be somebody he wasn't. Yeah, um, he didn't go take on the armor and the sword from Saul. He he stayed in his own wheelhouse and walked in his own calling and as opposed to try to lead from a place of uh of non-authenticity. And I think that's another thing too, is sometimes we step out of who God really made us to be and we start to try to operate like someone else, and it just doesn't work. We don't find victory because we're pretending to be somebody else. Where if we just stick to what God has made us to be and walk in our purposes, generally you'll find a lot of victory in your life. And I think that's what you see with David.
SPEAKER_03Well, and you have that that line between confident wisdom and cocky foolishness, right? Because I mean I I think about the the most successful people that I know and the people who are really truly experts in their field, they almost never wing it. Like, I mean, they they they come into something to a presentation completely prepared, they're ready to go. They they have spent the time in the background preparing for what it is they need to do. Um, because one of the things that a wise person does is they say, you know, this is the way that I think it's gonna go and the way that I hope it's gonna go. But in the event that it doesn't, I'm gonna be prepared because the outcome still needs to be the outcome no matter what. Um David had entrusted the outcome to God, but he didn't necessarily uh he didn't necessarily think God was gonna handle the entire process. There's something very organic about the way that David does this, where there's not, especially as opposed to Saul, when you look at the way that Saul interacted with battles and things like that, he looked for mediums, he looked for a prophetic message, he looked for an assurance, hey, you're gonna come through this. But when we see these warriors of faith throughout scripture, you I I find it interesting that they net there's never really a an assumption that they're gonna come through it okay, right? Like that, I mean there there is a belief and there's a faith that they will, but that there's something that's bigger than their own survival and their own thriving that's there. It's the honor, the honor of God and and and uh following after him. I mean, you think about Daniel's friends, uh you think about Daniel getting thrown in uh the lion's den. I mean, th these different people were faced off with Esther for that matter, they were faced off with very real danger and they did not know that they were necessarily gonna survive it. But their conviction and their faith was such that it didn't matter because they because they they knew I'm gonna entrust my soul to God and I'm gonna do what he told tells me to do, and I'm gonna give it my I'm gonna give it my best swing.
SPEAKER_01It is an interesting though uh comparison there of like a Daniel and you know Shadrach, Meshach, Abedniko, because they have the whole you know, an even if you know clause of this doesn't go out, it doesn't work out okay. David doesn't say that. He's just like, I'm gonna wipe you out, and I'm gonna cut off your head, and then the birds are gonna eat your body, which is pretty wild. I mean that which to me I think does make him stand out in that courage, which where did that all come from? I still really do firmly believe, even though it's not just like plain there in the text. God gave him uh some clarity and a conviction through the Holy Spirit that that's the only way I can see this really, that kind of confidence. Because I really do believe if the Holy Spirit is not, if we're told the Spirit gives us power, love, and self-control, you see there with David, you know, a sense of power, but I really do believe it came through the Spirit of God who is walking with him, and he just was so assured this is what I'm supposed to do.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I think the the important word you there you use there was walking with him. Yeah. Um, because I think the expectation we I think we can look at these kind of things and say, Well, these people lacked faith because they said, Well, even if, or I or I pick up five stones or whatever. Um, you know, I think we we often think about the Holy Spirit either going ahead of us or going behind us. But there is that's why I use that term organic there, where there is just something to be said. That when we live our life with Christ, that our decision making and the paths that we take are really going to be a lot less about us making a good decision, but is Christ is Christ and the Holy Spirit going with me as I go in these kind of things. Um and what it calls for is always dependence. And I mean, even to the extent that David didn't take the armor, he was depend he he by his actions was expressing dependence upon Christ. He knew he knew that he couldn't I mean he knew it wouldn't matter, it wouldn't make a difference. That ultimately whether if if if God was with him, then he was gonna win the battle, and if not, then he wouldn't.
SPEAKER_01Well and I think it's important also real quickly just to note that sometimes when you read the Bible, you gotta understand that some things are descriptive, not prescriptive, and especially when it comes to these narratives, where David, this this story is such an outlier to that point, you know, of his boldness and what he did. I think it would be foolish to read that text and then say, well, then I'm just gonna go charge every Goliath and I'm gonna know I'm gonna have victory and I'm gonna call out for the Lord to heal that person or to do this or find that victory over this and just presume on God's grace that that it's all gonna work out because it worked out for David. Um so I think we have to be careful with that too, that we don't uh overly apply this text into some of those scenarios and that we understand that you know this was a unique moment right here where something crazy happened. Um, because I agree with you on the more guarded, you know, approach on a lot of things is that you feel that conviction from the Holy Spirit to do it, but then you also just walk in fear and trembling, knowing I'm still just a man. Yeah, you know, I'm still a man of walking in faith, doing the best I can, making the right decision I sensed according to God's word and the conviction of the Spirit.
SPEAKER_03Because there's a very real difference there. On one side, it's I depend on God and on his power, and the other is I am God and I can I can tell him to do what I want to do. And good luck with that. Exactly. That that that in itself is uh back to that whole thing of blasphemy. Uh kind of on a similar note here, um, you know, again, sports season, Super Bowl, what is required for us to appropriately give credit to God in a situation? Um, and then what about blaming God? So, you know, in this in this case, you know, David gives credit to God for allowing him being with him to kill Goliath. Yeah. Um so does that mean when um Patrick Mahomes throws a touchdown to somebody on the Kansas City Chiefs and that guy points up to heaven and gives credit to God for it? You know, is it well number one, is that appropriate? Or number two, you know, what does that say about how God feels about the cornerback of that team? I mean, that I think there's a little bit of a um of uh ethical problem here. And so I mean, what do what do you think about that? You know, how how do we rightly credit God with our successes in our lives?
SPEAKER_01The way you rightly do it is through a surrendered heart. I mean, what what ultimately gives God glory is your willful surrender to him. Like it's you uh giving your life, your heart, and all that you are and all that you have to him. That brings glory is a yielded life to Jesus Christ. Um, as far as how that works out in the nuts and bolts of it all, I think we should look for those opportunities to give the praise and the credit. Like when things go well in our lives and God does bless us with success and victory, it doesn't mean you have to call a press conference, you know, and and announce it from the rooftop or go on social media every time you have a good day, you know. I'm there's I think there's nuance to it. But I think there's moments in those conversations where you have to try to find ways to give the glory back to God. I'll give just an example, and I'm not perfect at this, but if somebody comes up to me and they're like, oh, that was a great sermon, yada, yada, and they just start saying a bunch of nice stuff to me, which is nice and encouraging, and I'm thankful for it. I try my best in the moments to just be gracious to say thank you, but also just say glory to God. You know, because it because it's important for me to hear that myself, that it's not you. And then I think it's important for them to hear that too, that it's God. If anything was good in me, it was God Himself. Where I think it becomes problematic is it when we have victory and success and we just gloat in it, which is the other side of it, which is very natural for us. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, and as a lot of Christians do, where we kind of start to make God our lucky, lucky charm, right? Where uh, you know, one of my favorite baseball players ever, whenever we come to the plate, would cross himself every time before he would bat.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so here's here's the here's the uh I guess the ethical question in that. You know, you said if someone comes up to you and says that you did a good sermon on Sunday, what about if someone comes up and says, that was a terrible sermon? You did a bad job, Pete.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if I can give the credit to God on that one then.
SPEAKER_03I guess I just say I'm sorry. But I mean it it's it's I think I think it's a good a good um picture there. I mean, because it does when when we when you go and you preach and you put your you go and you you look into scripture, you try to present it to people, you know, it ultimately doesn't matter what they think what they if they think it's the best thing ever or the worst thing ever. You know, if we have that conviction that what we're doing is right, and if if we have that one will of I'm I'm doing this for the glory of God, man's praise or man's criticism ceases to matter as much. Now, I mean it is good always to have good counselors, good advisors, and sometimes, you know, we can get better at the skills in which which we do. Um, but I think what what can tend to happen is is we we get so used to people telling us nice things and then saying, well, it's all all glory to God when really we're thinking God's on my team without feeling that. And I think I think we just have to be careful about that. Yeah. Um, you know, it's that's been a I'll I'll tell you, that's been kind of a major, uh, major growth pain point for me in my my career in life has been actually accepting praise and encouragement when people say it. I mean, you know, the reality is I I felt bad for a long time I felt bad saying, Oh, thanks. Yeah, it's like you said something nice and thank you for that. Um, you know, that there was a a part of me that was like, oh, we gotta push it away, you gotta, you gotta defer, you gotta make fun of it, or whatever. I still kind of struggle with that some. But, you know, there there is this the I came under conviction about that that if God has given us skills and has given us the bit and talents, and then we're practicing those things to our best, then the reality is when we succeed, it is a it is our opportunity to glory glory in what he's done. Right. And and giving him the credit, absolutely. And and when we fail, you know, still giving him the credit that he that he still brought us through it.
SPEAKER_01And he's still using you, and he's gonna exactly help you on the other side of it. I do think some of it doesn't have to be so public, though. Like obviously David's is a very public speech, you know, he's very much so God's gonna be glorified when I cut off your head. You know, that's like he gives the whole rally speech as William Wallace talk. But I think sometimes we can give God glory. That's why I started with the heart, just internally in our heart. Like I'll give a quick illustration. I just thought of like I flew over the weekend, uh, made a quick trip to Atlanta, and maybe it's fear or maybe it's piousness, but when I fly, I pray. I don't know which one it is, but but I do. And usually I pray internally, not out loud, just as we're taking off. Lord, help us get off the land or get off the ground and get there safely. Then when we land, I just kind of have a habit in my mind just saying, Thank you, Lord. You know, thank you for getting us here safely. But it's just giving God the glory for that flight. I think it's important to do that and not take his grace for granted, just assume I'm entitled to get through this flight. Right. But what happens to use that same example, I say this because I was thinking about it over the weekend. We had these collisions that happened, these airplanes, you know, tragically, most famously in Washington that happened last week. And when things like that happen, usually people will blame God. Where was God in that crash? What happened there? But what I would counter to that is the same people, I would ask, where were you if you're gonna do that? Where were you on the other side giving glory to God for the hundreds of thousands of flights that landed all around that? Yeah, because if you're gonna blame him, you also have to glorify him then by that same logic when everything goes right. But I think I think we rob God of his glory all the time. I guess is my point. And so I think finding those moments in your heart, I really do believe God, God is honored by that. He doesn't need always a huge public speech, and and truthfully, those public speeches become oftentimes self-righteous because then we're receiving glory by giving God glory. Um, and so I think we have to be careful with that. I think God wants a humble heart, and then in the right moments, David had one right there. Give him the credit, give him the credit, and and God knows your heart and he'll and he'll honor that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it kind of kind of reminds me of the uh career arcs of uh of musicians like Fallout Boy and uh Katy Perry that used Christian music as an opportunity to get into the pop scene and then go in. You know, it it's that difference of who whose glory are you doing it for? And even if you give credit and glory to God, are you really doing it because of that? Exactly. Um versus you know, you consider the guy from Chariots of Fire, where he talks about the fact that you know God gave him that ability to run, and when he then he ran, when he ran, he felt God's pleasure. And you know, I I think we make life so much more complicated than it needs to be. And even David, you know, he see he walks out there, he sees a guy that is that is challenging the people of God, shaming them, and thereby also shaming the name of God as well by blaspheming. And he said, Well, that's a problem. Let's go deal with it. Yeah. I mean, the reality is that maybe for you listener, if you're looking for the Goliaths in your life, maybe it's the simple simplest thing is when you look in your own heart and you look in your own your own life, are there things that you know that are wrong and that are standing against God and you're just not doing anything about it? It's it's possible that that Goliath is more an addiction or a habit or a uh a peccadillo, if you want to use a big word for it, that you just you just don't want to deal with. Um it's possible that in order to live to live after God's own heart in this, is more just to make the decision to walk forward in obedience, claiming that victory that God gives us versus just complaining that it's there. Right. Um there are a lot of there are always a lot of people in life to be able to look at their problems and complain and say that they're oppressed or pushed back upon. It's it's it's rare to be the person that steps out and does something about it.
SPEAKER_01Well, I agree. And I think I think David's a perfect picture of the faith and works coming together to find victory because his faith is God's gonna give him the victory, he's the source, but his works are well, I better go pick up some stones and my sling and go handle business. And so I think it's the same way where sometimes we deal with those sin struggles, the addictions or just the problems, whatever those Goliaths are, and we're just like just begging God, will you just do it all for me? And we never actually clock into your point. It's like, well, go pick up the stones and go pick up your sling and get to work. Yeah. And and David is a perfect example of that where it was faith and works. He believed God could do it, but he also knew that God was going to do it through him and that it was gonna require some work uh and some steps of action.
SPEAKER_03And I think one last thing that that just really is striking in the story, and this is something that's kind of common to that form of warfare of the challenger warfare. But once David kills Goliath, apparently all these cowards that were hanging out and didn't want to step out, all of a sudden they're not so cowardly anymore. I mean, it's it says in uh verse 52 of chapter 17, 1 Samuel, and the men of Israel and Judah rose with a shout and is and pursued the Philistines as far as Gath and the gates of Ekron, so that the wounded Philistines fell on all the way uh from Sharing to Gath and Ekron. I mean, that this group of people who had been cowed, all of a sudden, when their when their champion wins, when somebody steps forward and does what they all know should have been done, it encouraged it it emboldened them to go forward and to and to win victories themselves. And so, friends, as you're listening to this, do you know that these the potential Goliath in your life, the thing that you know that you need to deal with, do you know that that there's nothing uh uncommon about that? That the the addictions, the the pains, the difficulties, the sufferings that are in your life, they're universal to mankind. There there is somebody else out there that's going through the exact same thing that you are. And how do you know that God might not be calling you to deal with that Goliath so that you can strengthen and encourage them to fight their battle next? Um we always it it seems like a lot in life, we're always waiting for somebody else to make that first step. The people that I've seen that really look like God's heart and the kind of Christians that really make a difference in the world are the ones who who say, I'm gonna step forward and do this because I'm because I love because I love God, He loves me and I trust Him. Um and so it it may be that for your community, for your church, you might need to be the person that steps forward and starts to deal with the very real problem that that people see. And you might be surprised at the the groundswell of victory that follows in the wake of that. Um they may just be waiting for somebody to step forward.
SPEAKER_01I think also to that point, Matt, I would add my observation to that story too, because I agree the crowd turns quickly, but it's a good reminder that crowds are also just so fickle. Yeah, you know, and I think sometimes to your point you're making, we wait to take that next step in our life, whatever it is, when the crowd basically helps us or agrees with us or cheers for us or enables us. And if you're waiting for that in your life, it's just not gonna happen. Yeah. Um, and I think you're right, crowds follow leaders and they also turn on leaders very quickly. That's also a biblical precedent. Um, but I think that's why we have to remember like, be careful with the crowd. Like if you're just waiting for the crowd to go do the right thing, you'll be waiting all day. And then likewise, if you start doing the right thing and say they do get courageous, they might not be with you the whole way doing the right thing. Yeah, um, it happened to Jesus, it happens to us too. So I think you have to be careful uh with the crowd. And to your point, David just did what God called him to do. And he knew God's enough, and I'm gonna do what God's telling me to do. And it did inspire the crowd, but crowds will turn on him later. It's gonna happen for him too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And there is a very real part to that of the ethics that we practice in our life. You know, will you will you do the right thing whether people go with you or not? And clearly the people who do the right thing move forward because they know it's the right thing and they know the one they're glorifying with it. So that's about it for this episode of This Is an ATX Podcast. Jonathan Stephen, anything else for the listening public? I'm all good. All right, friends. Well, go grab a rock and throw it at a tall guy and see what see what see what happens. This is why I so often derail our podcast conversations. But thank you so much for taking your time with us today as we've continued this series on After God's Heart. As you have questions arising out of this sermon series or even just in the general conversation about the life of David, please make sure and send them to our Instagram account at uh at Austin Baptist Church. We would love to be able to answer those questions for you and with you. And we hope that this has been an enlightening conversation for you and that you'll continue reading deeper into the story of David and the man after God's heart. So, for that, on behalf of Jonathan and Stephen and myself, have a great day, and we'll look forward to seeing you next time on the Citizen ETX Podcast.