Citizen ATX
Citizen ATX
Soul Killers: Ignorance
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What is the opposite someone who has a desire to read scripture and seek wisdom from the Lord? It is someone who constantly thinks they are right and are ignorant to the truth of God's Word. Join Matt and Jonathan as they discuss this idea of ignorance and how you can follow the path of seeking wisdom from God instead.
Hello there and welcome to the Citizen ATX Podcast. My name is Matt Gillum, and we're glad you're joining us on this new series on the Citizen ATX podcast, Soul Killers. I was laughing, thinking to myself about this coming up today that uh, Jonathan, I think we're getting into a the true crime area here, right? Talking about those soul killers out there. But no, we're starting this new series called Soul Killers because here at ABC, we have just begun a series talking about pathways for people to grow in their spiritual discipleship, their spiritual discipline, and how they can grow closer to God. And we figured that since we're going to be talking about those positive aspects of that growth toward God on Sunday mornings, that it would be helpful for us to talk about some of the opposite things, the things that do the opposite effect of those spiritual disciplines. So here in the studio with me is Jonathan Spencer. Hello, Jonathan. Howdy, Matthew. And so, Jonathan, why in particular during this season have we chosen to do this kind of balance of uh spiritual pathways that build up and soul killers that tear down? Is there anything particularly driving that made you choose to follow that path?
SPEAKER_00Well, on Sunday mornings, we're trying to focus on, we're trying to get practical because every year we talk about Easter. You can have a relationship with the risen Lord, and then lots of times we just kind of talk about, yeah, have that relationship, and we never actually coach people up about how to actually have that relationship. How do you how do you commune and fellowship with a God who is invisible? And so the next few weeks is going to be pretty practical talking about pathways, which really ultimately are these disciplines and habits that we put into our life to develop that relationship with God. And and really what that feeds into is what a lot of people would call soul care. How do we care for our soul and grow in in our relationship with God? So conversely, on the other side, you have soul killers, and that's what we're talking about. Is on Sundays we're trying to discuss the things that if you do these, they will care for your soul. But if you neglect these things, you're probably gonna fall into the category of these soul killers that will hurt your soul. It's gonna it's gonna be detrimental to your uh spiritual growth and relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so as we're jumping into this series talking about these soul killers, we're gonna start from the place of ignorance, which if you if you are paying attention or uh keeping track at home with what's happening here at Awesome Baptist Church on Sunday mornings, yesterday you delved into the spiritual discipline of interaction with scripture. So, how is it that ignorance is the opposite, the or the soul killer to the soul care of scripture in particular?
SPEAKER_00Well, because scripture we talked about how ultimately God's word is God's revelation of himself to us. And so through scripture, we get to know God. We get to know who he is, his nature, his character, his attributes, all of those things. So you get to know God through scripture, but if you ignore scripture, then you're not gonna know much about God. It's it's an ignorance in the relationship. It's like it'd be like having a relationship, even me and you, just as friends, of me not actually knowing anything about you, even though you're ready to disclose it and tell me about you, I would say, no, I don't want to know anything about you, I'd rather just be ignorant. That that relationship would would uh be stifled to grow if if there's a an ignorance and a lack of knowledge about the person you are trying to fellowship with.
SPEAKER_01Now, how then would we look at scripture and the the interaction with the Bible um as particularly uh this growth versus just general spiritual enlightenment, right? Because when we talk about spirituality and not, you know, even the going phrase, I'm a spiritual person, it it doesn't seem to necessarily track that I'm gonna read a book from 2,000 years ago, 2,000 to you know however many thousands before that, um it seems like that an awful lot like homework versus you know, if we're talking about these spiritual pathways that grow us in our relationship with God, I mean, couldn't we just do that by our intentions, by just existing and just being generally mellow with our world and interacting with God that way?
SPEAKER_00Well, usually when people talk about that word enlightenment, you are the star of that conversation. It means I have found secret knowledge and now I am a smarter, more spiritual, uh better person than others because I have gained this achievement. When we're talking about scripture reading and really ultimately all the pathways we're going to discuss, it's not about you being the star. God is the star. Right. And we want to get to know God because he's Lord and we want to get to know him, and he calls us friend. And so it's us ultimately pointing our heart and our affection on him and getting to know him. So yeah, is there homework in other words? That's a good, good illustration you gave there. I don't know if homework's the right word, but there is work. Like I take off that home part and just call work, but it goes into any relationship. It's much like a marriage. That's why I tried to illustrate some of that yesterday. Is in a marriage, is there work to get to know each other and continue to commune and have fellowship and have that intimacy?
SPEAKER_01Not with me.
SPEAKER_00I mean It all's natural, baby. Easy. It's all easy. No, I mean we all we always say, yeah. It takes work, it takes intentional work in order to uh maintain and build upon that intimacy with one another. And I would just argue it's the same thing in the spiritual dimension when we're having a relationship with God, it does require intentional work to continue to develop and grow that relationship.
SPEAKER_01And I think there's also a um an aspect of this where uh we are interacting with reality that scripture is not just build like you said and to that point earlier where I was kind of making a caricature of what spirituality is. Generally that idea of spirituality is just building up some kind of system that works well for you. And hey, you can do whatever you want, I'll do whatever I want. Problem is we don't live in a reality where we can actually do that. And what scripture does is that it does show us who we really are, it does show us how the world really is, and it doesn't change based on political movements or or it shouldn't change, I should say. Uh some people will will take it and interpret it weirdly in that way, but um but I I do think that uh when we're talking about this discipline of interaction with scripture, partially it's about engaging in the re reality of things, uh not in the way that we we would wish things could be. Right. Um and so then let's let's jump in there on that question then. So why is it then that this is an issue at all? Like, you know, we talk about you know, the Bible is this, you know, some people call it the love letter of God to his people. Uh you have the uh other people talking about the you know the chronicling of the people of God and how they made it through the world. I mean, in any other context, it would seem to it would seem it would stand to reason this would be a book that people would want to want to interact with. I mean, you think about if you were a basketball player and then Michael Jordan put out a book on how to how to play basketball, people are probably not going to push back on, oh, I can learn how to play basketball, but I don't care about that. I mean, it's not that doesn't really have anything to do with anything. But and yet we're given this uh the most historically criticized and affirmed book in in history. Um why is it that we we get this pushback from on on in the nature of interacting with engaging with this spiritual discipline of reading scripture?
SPEAKER_00I think it's multifaceted. There's a lot of things we could talk about, maybe those barriers and reasons. I think I think for one, I'll just say I think there is a attention deficit issue in in our in our country. I think this discipline has become increasingly difficult in a modern era. Um, you know, for centuries there was not access to God's word and you couldn't get it. And then when people got it, many people did dive into it. When it truly became freely accessible, printing press, we're talking about all that.
SPEAKER_01And also just general literacy in the in the correct.
SPEAKER_00And when people actually learned how to read, you know, when those things all came together, people actually started to read God's word. But my point is in a modern 21st century, people don't read anymore, period. If I'm just talking in broad strokes, I mean, I mean, if you're just looking statistically of even book sales in general, um, we are not a reading culture like we used to be, um, because we enjoy, here we go, listening to podcasts, you know, which by the way, glad you're here. But we like, we like we like podcasts, we like quick, you know, get to the point, teach me this. Um, we like instant gratification through scrolling. And so the discipline of really having to buckle down and read something that you don't understand and having to in many ways start from scratch, because a lot of the books of the Bible, they are hard to read because if you don't really study and get into the depth of it, you're not gonna understand the meaning. Um, so I think some of it, Matt, I think it's just that. I think I think there's an attention deficit. We want immediate gratification. Um, and then beyond that, I think another one is is that we're most of us are intimidated by it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, because it is daunting. I mean, it is this big book of books, by the way. You know, there's 66 books in this book. And where do we start? And you start reading it, it looks like it's a history story that you don't even understand if you just open the book. What on earth's going on and what's this have to do with me? It's it's intimidating for new new new readers, new, new people onboarding into the faith.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, I I agree on that. I mean, you talk about the general lack of biblical literacy and literacy in general, and you know, you made that statement about being intimidated. I mean, you have the the base argument about the fact that reading levels are lower than they used to be. Um But then you add into that the idea of shame at shame of failure of I gave it a try, I didn't understand it, and so now I don't want to interact with that because I don't want to fail at something. Um sometimes it's I think it's you just don't like what it says. Like I mean, sometimes people will read and engage in it, and then they just say, philosophically, I disagree with this. I don't like that it's trying to tell me how to best live my life or these truths about who God is. Though I will say I th I believe most people who interact with the Bible and scripture, if they start with that philosophical uh opposition to it, it seems very rare that they actually stay with it. And I don't have any stats on that, but it does anecdotally from people that I've talked to over the years, read about, and even scholars, the amount of people who actually know what the Bible says and actively disagree with it is not a huge number of people. Um and then, you know, uh I think a lot of this then boils down to a bigger concept, which uh you know will be part of I think what we're talking about in the general idea of spiritual disciplines, but uh the fact that there's just not discipleship happening with it. It's kind of a hey, we're gonna we're gonna give you a Bible and good luck with that. Like the the idea uh I mean I even love the story in the book of Acts when the uh Ethiopian eunuch is riding in the chariot trying to read the book of Isaiah, which I would challenge you, listener, if you've never just sat down and just tried to blank read the book of Isaiah, you're gonna be pretty confused rolling through it. And and what the the the thing that changed for him was that a a follower of Christ got up into the chariot with him and spent time reading with him and and describing it. And so I think a large part of this intimidation factor, this this factor of I'm afraid to interact with this because I might fail at it, I think it's all ultimately a failure of discipleship that where the church has said we expect you to read this and come back as a better person, whereas that's just not the way that scripture works.
SPEAKER_00I would agree. I think sometimes the church probably we've set a low bar where we conduct worship services trying to make them accessible for people, and for good reason, by the way. I believe that's a good thing. But sometimes I think over the course of history, the church became just a product you consume. We've talked about this on this podcast where it's like you come in, you receive that product of that motivating inspirational message that explains God's word and gives the pearl of wisdom for the week. And then you go about your life and you come back to the service provider on Sunday to do it for you again. And some of that is an old wineskins mindset, honestly, even going back into Roman Catholicism and into into history where the Bible was not accessible and you went to the professional to explain everything, but the word of God actually talks about how we are a priesthood of believers, and ultimately the word of God is accessible and all people are called to it. That's why I read that 2 Timothy 3 passage over the weekend, so that the man of God would be complete and equipped, it says, for every good work. So God wants to talk with every man and woman of God, and we all are priests, we all have access to them. But I think Matt, I think for years people just gone to church thinking this is a professional service that's provided by the educated ones. Um, I don't really need to do this, that's their job, that's why I tithe. I'm gonna pay for them to give me this service instead if they tithe. But but to that point of it's just like it's another product that you're receiving versus this is a relationship you have with God. Yeah, and this book was given for you just as much as it was given for me as a quote professional. And so I think I think some of that just got lost over the over the years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, and then yeah, I think as part of that, the the tendency to say that's easier to ask what does this mean to me versus what is it, you know, what does it actually mean in itself requires some critical thinking, which is hard. I think also to that point of you know, flawed discipleship and just n disengagement with the church. I mean, uh some people have been influenced poorly previously by those who corrupted it. Uh or you know, you have the the classical definition of the person hitting somebody over the head with a Bible kind of thing. And so that the reputation of the Bible has become as this horrible book that's designed to make you feel bad about yourself. Right. Um which is not fair to it. And um and frankly, I think maybe generationally that has changed a lot. I I don't know that it's as prevalent as it used to be, where you had this big divide between a hyper um um aggressive Bible culture uh versus now you have the governing the older part of the culture that kind of you know, you look at Gen X, uh early uh young boomers, Gen X, and old millennials, and it's that that intensive aggressiveness has been seems to be have been replaced by a lack of engagement, again, of this ignorance of the of the Bible because they reacted poorly to people before that. Correct.
SPEAKER_00I think there's probably a cultural implication there. One thought I also had though, when you're talking about generational shifts, I think also what we feel some of the weight of is as we've gone down the ladder into younger generations, you have um a disconnect generationally from the word of God through those spiritual habits of church going and Sunday school, you know, that that so many of former generations did. And for all the rights or wrongs of people want to argue about those methodologies, there was a generation of people who did grow up, you know, reading the Bible, memorizing scripture, including myself, wearing a Nowana vest, earning jewels for memorizing scripture, and and all that stuff was put into generations where now there's generations that that is a foreign territory, like that they were not raised that way for the last, I'd say, 20 to 30 years, where that has become much more uh less, it was less uh uh popular, I should say. Yeah. And so I think that it does create, I guess, more of a biblical illiteracy, though. It'd almost be like having a generation not go to school and learn how to read. Right. And then they become adults and say, hey, you need to start reading. It's like, well, they weren't raised to do this. And so they're struggling right now. This is a problem.
SPEAKER_01Whereas if you have a generation growing up not knowing how to build electronics and then they get to their 20s and then now somebody else has all the keys to that. Yeah. I think also there's a piece in this of anti-authoritarianism, which has infected this, where, and we've talked about this before. If you go back into the archives of our podcast, we did a uh cross-generational series that was pretty cool. Um, but in that, one of the big things that we saw was just that response to authority where the older generations looked at authority as a good thing, maybe usually as a good thing, something that was at least trustworthy or respectful. Um but then in the previous these previous generations, all of a sudden that idea of authority became anathema. And you see this even especially with Gen Z now, where and with millennials, where I'm not gonna trust what you say, I'm gonna go look up what it is that you're saying, which is interesting, which is ironic because now you have a spike. Uh, you made mention of this during the the sermon uh on Sunday, uh, but there's been this spike of Bible sales that's happened, and and you you also have the uh the app you version that's now uh been downloaded billions of times because in in this this flexing against authority where people became biblically illiterate, now their generation is saying, I'm gonna research and see for myself, is is that what it really says?
SPEAKER_00Exactly. They're going to this to this original source, which I love that. Like I was watching uh a reel on my social media, this was weeks ago, and I don't remember what it was. It was one of those kind of Charlie Kirk-esque people that's like going on campuses and they were arguing something, and there's a whole crowd arguing it was some biblical principle, but they were saying something was wrong that actually is morally and biblically right. And they were arguing that. Then they started talking about a biblical example of that this is actually in the Bible, and the guy on the mic was just like, What's the what's the Bible verse? Like, open it up right now, let's talk about it. And then they were struggling, and then they googled and they started reading like commentary of somebody's thoughts about a passage of scripture. He said, No, that's their thoughts. What's the verse? Read the verse out loud. Yeah, and then they read the verse out loud, and it was just very revealing of like, oh wow, that commentary was completely off of what you just read about that verse.
SPEAKER_01Well, and there's something to be said for that. I mean, even you know, right now our staff is reading through the entirety of the Bible, and one of the big episodes of where we're nearby to where we are right now is of uh King Josiah. I believe it's in 2 Chronicles and 2nd Kings. Um, but one of the one of the crazy things that happens is this guy becomes king and they're clearing out some stuff around the temple and saying, hey, we need to rebuild the temple, we need to do do all these right things or whatever. And then they find a book and they they come to they come to him and they're like, Hey, look at this, we found a book. And like, well neat, let's read it together, right? And all of a sudden, once the book of the law is read and they understand that their whole generation missed on this, yeah, it was there was an immediate bam. Woke them up. Yeah, there was an awakening that happened. And so it's an interesting, interesting thing, and the this example that you gave reflects in my mind so much of Josiah, and part of why it's so important for us to bring uh biblical literacy to a place where we're not content to just accept what somebody else says about it, but to read it and to engage with it ourselves. Right. Um, one other thing that that kind of comes to mind as we're we're thinking through this, and just generally as um, I guess it could be considered some by some a criticism of biblical literacy and things like that, but the idea of like bibliotheism where people get to where they worship the book of the Bible. Um now, granted, you know, we're drawing a little bit on other rel religious backgrounds here to an extent where, you know, like in Islam, the the Quran is a divine book, it's it's worshipped in itself. Um and so what should be our response to that particular angle of you know, what role is this book? Is it I mean, because we we also to be fair, we also talk a lot about how uh about the word the the word of God and also in the book of John where Jesus is described as the word of God. So how do we differentiate between those things?
SPEAKER_00Well, you see, Jesus actually rebuke a lot of this in his ministry because the Pharisees themselves, you could argue, I mean, I argue, you would say, yes, they were people of the book. They knew the book, they they knew it, they had it memorized, yet they didn't follow the book. And that was what Jesus went after was that they had their minds devoted to the book, but they didn't have their hearts and they weren't following the spirit of the law. Um and Jesus also says he didn't come to abolish the law either, but he came to fulfill it. And so you can what happens for a lot of us, because I think we all are just naturally idolatrous people as sinners, is we want to worship something that's tangible and and feasible and visible, really, something that we can that we can focus on. Yes, that we can put our our eyes on, our hands on, and that's why we elevate leaders into idolatrous places, but even to your point, we can elevate sacred texts and books and dead church guys and their thoughts, you know, into those places as well. And it's because it's just tangible. It's something that we can see and we can put our mind behind that makes us feel special. And all throughout the book, God says, I'm the one that should make you feel special. I'm the one who chose you, called you, empowered you, changed you, forgave you. And so, how do you war against it? You have to recognize that you can't throw uh the baby out with the bathwater. That that that's sin that I would agree that sometimes gets interlaced in this arena where people can study in an idolatrous way, in an arrogant way, in a self-puffing way. Yeah. And they're missing the whole point and the reason is to know a God and then follow him. But it but at the same time, it doesn't mean that we're not called to study the book. But I think it it comes through, I think I guess the solution I would argue, Matt, would come through uh that last point I talked about in the sermon, which is you gotta find a team. Because I think if you become a a uh Bible student in isolation, that's where that game ends. Like if you really do, or if you just find your own Theo bros that that will just validate everything you say and tell you how smart you are. But if you will actually how wrong everybody else, yes, exactly, and how everybody else is all wrong, this is where this usually ends, is in that spiritual arrogance. And so I think doing it humbly in community, it doesn't remove the threat, but it at least minimizes that threat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I and I think you're exactly right when you talk about the attitude piece of that, that if we're reading the but the Bible with love uh for our fellow man, like and we look at the self self-incontained commandments in there of love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and the second and slight it, love your neighbor as yourself. When we read the Bible through that lens, it's gonna change the way that we interact with it. If we read it through the lens of selfishness or protectionism or fear, uh what we wind up doing is gathering that knowledge to ourself to weaponize it against other people that might challenge us. And so there there is a vulnerabil a uh a I would say a essential vulnerability that comes from reading scripture in the right way. Because when you read scripture in the right way, it it can and I mean the double edged sword piece, it can and probably will hurt. Yeah. And it does it you can't just read it and walk away from it. It makes claims about the world, it makes claims about you, and you've got to You've got to react to that. And so as we're talking about these soul killers, then how do we fight against ignorance? How do we we uh from kind of a uh ideology way start to build that discipline uh back? And I I would say that we kinda we kind of delay first on the just actual practical steps or more to the principles that are there first in developing any of these disciplines.
SPEAKER_00I think the principle is just first of all, just making a commitment to taking a step. Because I think to your point of the pragmatic what step, we could talk about that, but I think there just has to be an inward conviction and a decision that I've got to do something about this, that that God is calling me to this and I'm just willing to take a step. And then within that step, framing what what how are you going to measure victory in this? Because I the the point of the win is not to say I've memorized the whole book and I know it all and I can cite everything. It's that I know a God more intimately. Yeah. And I've been shaped become to become more like his son through reading this book. Um, that should be your goals is to know God and to become more like him through through your study. And so I think you have to set the right goals, in other words, on the front end, and then with that make the right commitment that I'm going to do this. And this kind of gets into the more pragmatic of how often and you know, all those things. But I think it just has to start with setting the right heart goals.
SPEAKER_01And I think as you're as you're thinking of trying to picture this, it's kind of like reading a uh mem reading and memorizing a plumbing manual and then saying that you're an accomplished plumber. It's like it doesn't change. I mean, until you work on the toilet, you're not you're not that good at it. And I mean that is part of the the I look at these spiritual disciplines in a lot of ways like exercise, like like we talk about in the physical body of things that that you have to do in order to build up bodily discipline, you know, and you you mentioned these too, but uh a couple of things that kind of stick to mind are uh something before nothing, right? Make that first step. Don't be content with not having anything, but be discontent with nothing and then content with something. Um progress, not perfection. You know, it's funny that's written on the side of a gym of one of our uh partners over in Egypt. And that what that's just stuck with me about that idea of you know, so much so many of us give up on on a discipline because we're not perfect at it from the beginning. And so the goal being, how am I progressing? How am I building in this? Uh I would say also pushing away pride and pushing toward humility, uh, recognizing that if you think you've got it all down, then you need to get back to it because it's gonna tell you the opposite. Right. And I think if I'm being honest, the people that I know that are the most biblically literate people are usually the humblest about it. They they know all that stuff, it rolls off the tongue, but they don't, they're not, they don't act like they're something important because of it. They just do it because it's they've hidden it away in their heart, they might not sin against God. Yes. Um, and then last that idea of inviting others into the workout that sometimes it's easier to finish a workout if you have somebody else there, you know, if it's guys making fun of you, but but more realistically, they're there encouraging you, telling you to to make that next rep and to talk and to show, hey, we're all on different journeys of development here, but we are developing. There this is this is coming forward.
SPEAKER_00And and I think that motivation of developing and and transforming, to even put that word into it, that is the goal. And I think that's where I think a lot of people get it wrong on from the beginning, is they think I'm supposed to read this book because I'm supposed to reach a Bible quota to impress God with how devoted I am It'll make me better. Yeah, and He's gonna be so happy with me because I did my religious duty for the day. That's not the point of reading scripture, it's not so that you can check a box and make yourself more special to God. You already are special to God. He called you and called you to himself. The point is he wants you to get to know him. Yeah and and that has to be the motivation. And as you get to know him, you do become more like him. And that's the point where I I like the illustration you're talking about at the gym, because that's the whole point that when they're they're marketing all that stuff is they are marketing transformation. That's what they're getting at. Yeah. That you're not gonna look at you're not gonna get perfect overnight, but you can find progress by simply committing to these routines physically, and in due time you will make progress, not perfection. And it's the same thing spiritually. If you just commit to these pathways, you're not gonna be perfect, yeah, because that's impossible. One, um, but will you see progress? Absolutely. Yeah, and that comes through that spiritual transformation that happens over time. Right.
SPEAKER_01Uh, and I I'll say this too for a workout. Sometimes the best workouts you don't see you the the benefits are not easily seen at the beginning. Yeah. You might not you might not lose the weight that you uh uh immediately that you're hoping to lose. I know I started back to the gym last week and my weight at the end of the week was the same as it was at the beginning of the week. And it's like, well, uh, that's that's a poor measure. Yeah. But my legs really hurt. So exactly.
SPEAKER_00Well, to take it even one step further, when you work out physically, usually you hit something called a plateau. And and it means like you're working, you're killing it, you're seeing progress at first, but then it's like, well, I'm kind of stuck here. Um, and that the question is well, does that mean now the workout's worthless and you stop working out because you're not growing at the rate you were before? Um, and it's the same thing spiritually. Like people, I think when you when you're a new believer, you crave the spiritual things at a heightened level. Right. And I think all of us, especially if you got saved in your teenage to adult years, you remember this. And this isn't discrediting earlier salvations when you're five, six, seven years old. But like I really, I think had a radical experience with God when I was 17. And I remember at that first year, I craved God's word. And the more I read it, I mean, it was like that book was just popping. And then same things, even evangelism. I was sharing my faith at such a rapid rate in that first year, which is normal for a lot of new converts. Right. And then, if I'm being candid, there's seasons after that where it was like, I don't really want to read the Bible. Yeah, I don't really want to share my faith. And does that mean all that stuff I just give up on it? No, it means to that same point of the physical grind, it's like you press through.
SPEAKER_01It's time to push.
SPEAKER_00And in much of your spiritual life is not just a linear, you know, line from you know, at a 45 degree on the on that X and Y axis that you're just go going straight forward up towards the Lord. It's like a twisting-turning line that's constantly moving, there's ups and downs, but over time there's progress. Like you're you're moving, continue in that direction. Yeah. Um, so you have to set the right expectations.
SPEAKER_01All right. Well, and let's, as we kind of get toward the end of this conversation, let's talk about some of those practical steps then on fighting fighting this ignorance of scripture. Somebody listening to this says, Okay, I listen to the sermon, I listen to this podcast, I'm sold. I'm ready to start reading scripture. Where where should I start? Should I start with Genesis 1.1? That sounds like a good hey, there's a really cool book called Leviticus. Should I start there?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I I said in the sermon John, which is a good starting point, and most pastors would say that because it is. Like if if all every pastor you hear says the same thing, usually there's a reason. Um, and and John is a great gospel to read. It's written so that you may believe. It's a very personal, intimate gospel where you see uh a picture of Christ that is very personal and relational in nature. And so I would say start there. And if you just want a basic, you know, goal, read one chapter a day. You don't have to, you don't have to read a ton. Um, and what I would encourage is regardless of what you read, just begin that that reading with a simple prayer of God, will you honor this time that I'm giving to you? Will you speak to me in Jesus' name? Amen. Bless the time, and then read it and see what God will do through that that time. I would encourage you to write your thoughts. That also helps if you're like me. As you see a verse, maybe write out the verse that stood out in a journal, highlight it, underline it. Those things that work academically also work spiritually to help you engage. And then after at the end of it, of your time of reading, likewise, have a prayer over what you just read. Take that nugget, that principle, whatever you saw there, ask for God to help that be true in your life. Ask for God to give you the grace to do whatever was done in that text, you know, whatever the application may be.
SPEAKER_01Well, and what if you don't understand something that you're reading? Like a couple of the other examples you put in here are like Proverbs in 31 Days, because there's 31 chapters, but if you go right straight through Proverbs, there's gonna be some stuff in there that doesn't really make sense. Yeah. You do a psalm a day or the book of James. And so what happens if I'm if I'm doing this, I'm making my best step, I'm not not I'm doing progress, not perfection, and all that, but and yet I'm starting to pile up things that I don't really understand. Um do I just ignore those things or do I just do I or do I have to stop and read it again? What what is it that you you recommend to?
SPEAKER_00I would argue two steps. One is buy a good study Bible, and number two is find a good church. And I'll and I'll talk about the first one, buy a good study Bible. If you're new to this, the there are things called study Bibles. And what that means is the text is on really the top half of the page. On the bottom half of that page are notes. They're written by a third party, by scholars that are giving commentary notes where they're writing about the verses that correspond above to give you a little bit of insight of what's going on. There's usually also pages before each book of the Bible that give you history, context, about the author, the audience. It gives you just academic knowledge to understand what's in that book. So as you read through the scripture, you can read the scripture and then look at the bottom and read that that commentary to give insight. If you're saying, Man, I don't know what verse three means, what on earth? Then you look down there at verse three commentary, it generally will explain a little bit and then usually it gives you a cross-reference to even some other passages that reiterate those points. Now, the key is make sure you get a good study Bible. Um, I'll throw out there there's several good ones. I preach from the ESV uh on Sundays. English Standard Version. Yes, English Standard Version. And one reason I do that actually is because in 2008 they launched a study Bible published by Crossway. Wayne Grun was the general editor, J.I. Packer was the theological editor. And in 2008, I bought that study Bible, and I still read that study Bible today in 2026. I I find that to I have found that. I've tried other ones. I personally, for my own money's worth, have found that to be the most enriching commentary in a study Bible. So if you need a recommendation, buy the ESV study bible and start there. And then secondly, go to the church and find a group, find a team.
SPEAKER_01Well, one question I have too before we sign off. So can I use Chat GPT instead of a study bible if I got a question about? I mean, seriously, because I think a lot of people who are listening to this will be wondering, you know, these large language models, shouldn't I shouldn't we be using that alongside other things?
SPEAKER_00I won't just say an outright no, because I know that's the easy answer to give. And and technically, if I were going to err on something, I'd say no. But but I will I'll give a little bit more, I guess, uh commentary to that. If you chat GPT something, Google something, and you're asking, you're asking the internet a theological question, you might get some truth in there, because there is truth circulating throughout the internet that it is pulling from, but you might also get some garbage in there too, because there's garbage that it is pulling from in the internet. Yeah. So if you do that, I'm not a hundred percent against asking those things, but what you need to do is then once again go to the source of what that said information was um and get back to the scripture. Now, what's a better exercise versus just hoping for the best in the internet is there are trusted commentaries and pastors that you go to. So in general, I would say no. That is not, that does not need to be where you start. Um, but at the end of the day, is there some truth on the internet? Yes, you know, but is there a lot of lies? Absolutely. So it's much, it's much wiser to uh at the end of the day, find a trusted commentary and find a trusted pastor and teacher. Go to church, find find a group to help you uh versus just AI.
SPEAKER_01Well, the good news is that nobody listening to this podcast can uh think that we actually use Chat GPT. Yeah, yeah, I know for our for our dumb illustrations and stuff like that. But yeah, so I mean that that is the first of the soul killers in the series, and we hope that as you can as you continue to fight back against ignorance in your life in the spiritual realm, that you'll look to it towards scripture knowing that it doesn't change. And so, uh Jonathan, anything, any last words for the for the uh listeners?
SPEAKER_00Just encourage you to take your first step. Don't be intimidated. Whatever that step is, just take it. I do believe the Lord will bless you for it.
SPEAKER_01All right, friends. Well, that's it for us today. Thank you for joining us on the Citizen ATAX podcast. And we look forward to next time as we continue our Soul Killer series looking at the things that take where God would desire us to grow. So take care. We'll see you soon.