From Autism Diagnosis to Poetic Expression: Emily Grodin's Remarkable Journey

Valerie Gilpeer and Emily Grodin share their remarkable journey from autism diagnosis to breakthrough communication, chronicling how facilitated communication unlocked Emily's voice after 25 years of limited verbal expression.

• Valerie describes Emily's autism diagnosis at age two and years of traditional therapies that yielded limited verbal communication
• Emily was frequently underestimated intellectually because she couldn't speak conversationally
• Introduction to facilitated communication (FC) as an alternative communication method that involves typing with support
• FC revealed Emily's rich inner thoughts, intelligence, and poetry that had been trapped inside for years
• Emily now attends college with a 4.0 GPA and aspires to be a journalist who covers "things that don't get covered"
• Emily explains that behavior issues often stem from communication frustration
• The breakthrough improved their relationship and gave Emily agency in her own life
• Valerie emphasizes there is no age cutoff for development—parents should never stop seeking solutions
• Emily's powerful message: "People have many thoughts, even if they can't get them out"

The book "I Have Been Buried Under Years of Dust" by Valerie Gilpeer and Emily Grodin is available on Amazon, iBooks, and local bookstores like BookSoup, published by HarperCollins.

Transcript

Introduction to Valerie & Emily

Speaker 1 0:02

Welcome to the Brady Bunch of Autism, your source for family parenting and all things. Autism and special needs created by our family for your family live from the Ed Asner Family Center and now your hosts, Nava and Matt Asner.

Speaker 2 0:20

Good afternoon and good evening. My name is Matt Asner and to my right is Nama Paskowitz Asner.

Speaker 1 0:27

And welcome to the first inaugural Ed Talks.

Speaker 2 0:31

The Ed Talks are a lecture series I bet you couldn't have guessed that where we're talking to people that are interesting to our community. Our community is the special needs community and the autism community. Tonight we have an amazing, two amazing authors who wrote one amazing book called I have Been Buried Under Years of Dust, and with us today are Valerie Gilpier, mom, and Emily Grodin, daughter. Poet Poet, Authorist, an authorist, and they're going to join us today. Ed Talks are interesting. The first thing we're going to do is have Valerie and Emily speak about the situation that they find themselves in today, and they're going to tell us what the book is about and why they wrote it, and then we're going to have a bit of a Q&A. The book comes out tomorrow.

Speaker 2 1:25

They wrote it and then we're going to have a bit of a Q&A. The book comes out tomorrow. It has some and we'll be reading some of the excerpts of some of the praise that this book has gotten right before the Q&A. But right now I'm going to introduce Valerie Gilpier, who is the mom of Emily Grodin and the co-author of I have Been Buried Under Years of Dust, coming out by HarperCollins tomorrow. Valerie and Emily Hi there.

Speaker 1 1:51

Thank you so much, matt, for having us. We're so very pleased to be here to share with you how we've gotten here. This is the book that Emily and I wrote called I have Been Buried Under Years of Dust, and this story is really about our journey, our family's journey, that of Emily and Tom and my husband and Emily's dad, from the time that Emily was diagnosed initially, at the age of two, with autism to the present, and this book takes everyone on a journey from Emily's initial diagnosis through our years of speech therapy, occupational therapy and various forms of speech therapy, to the time when she ultimately was able to communicate in a very, very impressive way. So, after Emily was diagnosed when she was two, we engaged in a series of services for Emily, which included behavior modifications, speech and language therapy and occupational therapy, focusing mostly on this speech therapy, with the hope that one day that Emily would become a verbal person and able to actually communicate verbally. Unfortunately, with all the years that we had of speech therapy, that never happened. She had speech therapy from about the time that she was two years of age until the time that we had of speech therapy. That never happened. She had speech therapy from about the time that she was two years of age until the time that she was about 20. And it never really happened that Emily was able to be conversational and she pretty much remained using single words, using words, single words. So we ultimately continue to pursue various therapies and nothing really happened.

Emily's Autism Diagnosis Journey

Speaker 1 3:32

So what we were finding over the course of the year, over the years, was that Emily was pretty much disregarded by people because she could not communicate in a meaningful verbal way, she was very much limited in the output and because she could not speak in a way that was so valorized by the world, people didn't think that she was an intelligent person and this created a lot of frustration for Emily and created a lot of frustration for us, and ultimately we were finding that this was impacting Emily's access to the, to the greater world. So isn't that true, emily? Yes, and so what we, what we, what we found over as Emily aged, was that things really got worse when she could not communicate in the world, with the world, verbally, and what happened was that we reached a point after a period of time when Emily was at a college transition program into a college where things really did escalate and the behaviors were very much an issue due to the fact that she could not communicate with people that were providing her care. You will learn in this book that we were really forced to bring her back to live with us, and we engaged in looking at alternative forms of communication and landed on pursuing what is known as facilitated communications. And through facilitated communication, which is really an alternative form of communication, which is really an alternative form of communication, we learned just how much Emily had to share with the world, all about her inner life, her hopes and dreams, the things that she sought for herself, and actually just how much she loved us and how much she had been learning all those years when so many people thought she wasn't learning anything. So what is FC, you might ask.

Speaker 1 5:26

What is facilitated communication? It's a form of alternative, augmentative communication. It is a for Emily. She'll give you a little demonstration of it. It amounts to Emily typing on a keyboard on an iPad. Sometimes now she's actually typing on a computer with a communication partner sitting next to her who lightly touches her and provides her emotional support and encouragement. So it's that simple and it uses such a simple device as an iPad or a computer.

Speaker 1 5:56

And for Emily, this methodology, this alternative form of communication opened up her world and has provided her with so many more opportunities, both socially and emotionally and academically. All of this is documented in the book, and one of the reasons that we're so proud of this book is that it really provides it's not a roadmap, but it really provides hope, I think, to people who have really struggled with getting their children to speak verbally and realizing that it may never happen. There are alternative methods available, things which should be pursued by people, by school districts, but often are not, and we hope that when people read Emily's poetry, when they read what she's written in the book and they see how she can answer questions here for you today, that they will be inspired to look into other ways of helping their person communicate. We also certainly hope that this story will also be somewhat instructive to members of the medical community, educators and really for anyone who works with anyone who has special needs, for anyone who works with anyone who has special needs.

Speaker 3 7:06

So it should be required. Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 7:08

So you know, emily's breakthrough was unusually powerful. I think I'm not sure that everyone who attempts facilitated communication or any other alternative form of communication, of which there are others this is not the only methodology will actually be as successful as Emily is. But there are many, many out there in our community now who are using FC and are very successful and whose lives have been changed. So we hope that you enjoy reading the book and we hope that you will find some hope for the person that your life, that you love. I was just going to add one thing. It also is incredibly inspirational to parents and to parents in their own ways, maybe not being exactly in that situation, but there was so much hope. Even in your darkest times, you never gave up on Emily. You always, you always knew that there was so much more in her eyes and you knew that instinctively as a mother. And that is exactly what kept me going all those years was because that same light that I saw in Emily from the time that she was born was a light that I could not let go of. It was a light that I said is in there, and I think when you see that in your child, you keep going and it doesn't matter what anybody says to you.

Speaker 1 8:39

There are so many naysayers along the way, so many people that told us no, and so many obstacles that were put in our path that we refused to heed to actually, that we refused to say yeah, you're right. I mean there were certainly and, as the book really talks about, we did follow the advice of experts, especially at the beginning. I mean, this was Emily was diagnosed in 1993. The world has a changed place since 1993 in terms of the availability of services and opportunities for individuals with autism, and also attitudes. A lot of attitudes have changed. So it's a different world.

Speaker 1 9:19

And but what we? We dealt with, what we had to deal with then we we followed the advice of people who we felt could give us the best advice at the time and pursued it until you still, until we felt that that advice wasn't as helpful. But even when you had, like you know, expert advice sometimes mom knows best Absolutely. And you were that tiger mom that said you know what mom knows best Absolutely. And you were that tiger mom that said you know what I think mom knows best. I love that about you. Well, I mean, I think that you have a sense, parents have a sense of what's best for their children and although I was always told that along the way, every time I would assert myself.

Speaker 1 10:00

I would be told I was wrong. So it was kind of a mixed bag and I do think that now I mean I know that so many more parent groups that have emerged now than were available, I mean we were a little bit in the dark in those early days and also there was a certain amount I wouldn't say shame about our kids, but the way we were received was difficult and the way people would. You know. We were always told well, it doesn't really matter the label, but if you did place a label on then there was a possibility that maybe you wouldn't, your child wouldn't get invited to a birthday party because of that. So there was a tendency and I mean if to do it. If I were starting over again now, I would feel very differently and like you say it's a different world.

Discovery of Facilitated Communication

Speaker 3 10:46

It's a different world, autism is in movies and TV.

Speaker 1 10:49

And the good doctor, the good doctor. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, but it's a different world.

Speaker 2 10:56

I have a question for Emily. For Emily. Yeah, okay, emily, you're up, and it's one that I give with a bunch of emotion. Actually, I'd like to know how she feels when she deals with people who don't assume intelligence in her.

Speaker 1 11:18

Go ahead, Emily. How do you feel? Would you ask her directly?

Speaker 3 11:30

Emily, how do you feel when you meet people that don't assume that you are intelligent? I Really Feel, feel, really Feel. It's Best To Pay no.

Speaker 1 12:15

I really feel it's best to pay no mind. That's their problem, not yours.

Speaker 2 12:24

I need to take classes from you. No, I need to take classes from you, I really do.

Speaker 3 12:29

I'm the one to chase mine well it.

Speaker 2 12:33

It must be very difficult and certainly I'm sure it's difficult for for valerie and it was difficult.

Speaker 1 12:39

It was difficult when emily was young and there were so many people because we vow, because it is because we valorize in that society people that are articulate and because people can express themselves and explain things, and when you have a person in your life who is unable to do those things, they are treated differently. I mean, they're treated like they're not bright people. And yet we knew Emily was bright. And how did we know she was bright? And how did we know she was bright, you might ask? Well, we knew she was bright because she was a nonverbal problem solver. She had a sense of humor, she would figure things out, she would get things accomplished. I mean watching her, you know, nonverbally, purchase a cookie in a bakery with you know it was like poetry in motion, it was unbelievable and there were just so many things that she would do.

Speaker 1 13:24

The scene of you struggling with the car seat, and then Emily just like oh yeah. Yeah, and she was she was an infant.

Speaker 1 13:32

It was like you don't need mommy, yeah, yeah, no, it's so. So it bothered me now. It doesn't bother me now because people you know, I know who she is, now I have validation, you know. It's like when I was telling people how smart Emily was when she was younger, people would look at me like they kind of humor me, but you know that they didn't believe me. Yeah, 100%. They didn't believe me because they would see Emily moving or making you know verbalizations or something and it would not seem to them that anything was in there. But we knew Tom and I knew right.

Speaker 2 14:08

Yes, we have a bunch of questions from, from people out there.

Speaker 1 14:15

Some are to Emily and some are to Valerie.

Speaker 2 14:18

Yes, but before we go there, I want to ask one question, and it's to both of you. So I'm asking Emily and I'm asking valerie how did, when emily blossomed into fc technology? She had a breakthrough really yes, a breakthrough, but that's a blossom oh, it's very.

Speaker 1 14:40

It was literally. It was a break.

Speaker 2 14:42

It was a breakthrough I would love for you to describe and I'm I'm sure they'll read it in the book when they buy your book, which they will do I want you to describe that breakthrough, both of you to describe that breakthrough and what it did to your relationship together.

Speaker 1 15:01

Well, would you like to answer that question, sweetie? Yes, what did it do to our relationship? Can you hear the breakthrough? Yes, go ahead, okay.

Speaker 3 15:24

Chorus. It Brought Us Clothes Close, close. Of course it brought us close, bug Close, but Oui, oui, oui, also Very Close, close, of course, it brought us close, but we were also very close before yeah, I mean for I think for us what it did is that again, it was a validation of so many things and also we.

Living Without Being Heard

Speaker 1 17:02

What we for us, but it did in so many ways, is that it. It gave us such an insight into emily's incredible inner life and her hopes and dreams for herself that we could then act on and help her realize. We had no idea all the things that Emily wanted to do with her life. We had no idea that she wanted to go to college and that she had all these hopes and dreams for herself. And I must tell you that since the time that this book has come out she has really flourished even more. Since the book has come out, I mean, she's, you know, become a full-fledged college student, seven classes under a belt in the pandemic. You know aspirations to become a journalist now and has really developed a lot of friends. So you know 4.0. There we go, Can't leave that out.

Speaker 2 17:48

No, I can't 4.0.

Speaker 1 17:53

Can't leave that out. No, I can't leave that, no, I. So I mean it's, it's really so it's. It did a lot of things but it, you know it also made it. You know, emily has had fewer instances of behavioral issues. We've been able to talk her through a lot more stuff, understand her and understand her better. Yeah, you know, when you, you know, when you don't have a, when you have a child who doesn't speak verbally or who doesn't communicate in any other meaningful way, that's really meaningful, and you're just getting one or two word responses. You really, you really just don't have a great insight into how to address many things. It's all supposition. You know, you're kind of guessing all the time. We're always playing a guessing game, and now we're not playing a guessing game anymore. We're really not, because she's a full participant in her world and in our lives as well, and an artist.

Speaker 1 18:42

And you thought it was just going to be kind of a bland, you know typing out, and you said where did this poetry come from? And your poetry, emily, is incredible.

Speaker 2 18:51

Let's talk about that for one second, because I would like for Emily to tell us which poem is your favorite poem in the book. That's a hard question, or maybe she can choose one that you can read Valerie, oh, from the book.

Speaker 1 19:05

Yeah, oh, emmy, I mean, there's so many. The letter she wrote to your family at thanksgiving. Oh, do you like that?

Speaker 2 19:13

so that's the good one. Okay, beautiful, that's on page two to me was another breakthrough moment.

Speaker 1 19:19

Well, that was written on page. That's actually, I know that page. This was the one of the first things emily wrote. This was right after she started typing and this was the one where she wrote something I need you all to hear. Okay, can I read this that minute? Yes, okay, I love that. Remember when she wrote this okay so it says.

Speaker 1 19:35

Something I need you all to hear is this I am autistic, not brain dead. Please never again underestimate people like me. We make noises and do peculiar things with our bodies. That is undeniable. However, our greatest affliction is that the world sees us as incapable of anything else. Make me proud to be a part of this world by helping me eradicate the misconceptions. Please know that I am thankful for each one of you and that you have taken the time to hear my words. That's just perfect.

Speaker 1 20:06

Amen, and it's not just to the family, that's to the whole world. That's to perfect. Oh wow, amen, amen. And it's not just to the family, that's to the whole world. That's to the world. It prejudges our low and nonverbal friends.

Speaker 1 20:16

That's right who you know the preschools and everything that you went through and all these people who put the labels and said that she could never do this. When you knew, from that light, that she could do that, you never gave up that hope. No, we never gave up that hope. I mean it was impossible to shake. I mean I really, over the years, as the book documents, I really became like a, you know, a dog with a bone, yeah, and I mean that's all it was. I mean I, I really was unable and unwilling to let go of anything but full inclusion for Emily, for opportunities for Emily. And you know, the push really for the language, really the need for language, which was always there, was something that really just became absolutely essential as she aged.

Speaker 1 21:01

And, of course, you know these instances that we're having. We talk about problems with the police. We just had another one that happened here in Los Angeles two days ago, with police overreacting to a situation. It was something which was a huge fear and you know I write about it. I write about it back in 2016. It was a fear and it remains a fear and it will be a fear for an awfully long time.

Speaker 1 21:25

But people need to understand that sometimes the reasons for those behaviors, although they're not you know, they're not necessarily evident in a moment. People's inability to communicate and the buildup that happens with their frustration really does cause behaviors. And so, although the ability to communicate in the moment may not solve the situation or ameliorate the immediacy of a meltdown, the fact is is that it's a boiling point. People reach a boiling point I think we all do. It's kind of like you have enough. You have enough of kind of the disrespect, the disregarding and that sort of thing, and I think that's what causes a lot of the behaviors that we see in individuals who have limited communication abilities. A hundred percent, I really do. I have a fun question for Emily, and this person says Emily, what kind of music do you like, what kind of music do you listen to?

Speaker 2 22:17

From Shannon.

Speaker 1 22:20

What kind of music do you like? I know one part of the book.

Speaker 3 22:25

I listen to K. I listen to K Earth, k Earth 101.

Speaker 1 22:57

So Emily was weaned on K Earth 101 as a baby and she's still listening to it, even though the genre has changed considerably since 1991. It's not 80s music. It used to be 60s and 70s.

Speaker 2 23:12

Yeah, it was oldies, but goodies.

Speaker 1 23:14

It was not anymore, so we're stuck. It's 80s. It's horrible.

Speaker 2 23:19

Oh, I probably like it. Then I think I'll check it out, emily, one day you and I are going to just listen to KO.

Speaker 1 23:27

Drive around town and listen to KO.

Speaker 2 23:31

The next question comes from Mark, and that question is do you have your facilitated communication with you at all times to help you communicate? It's for Emily.

Speaker 3 24:00

No, but I do Do Most Days Far A. No, but I do most days full of time Okay.

Speaker 2 24:34

And how about? Maybe we can ask you.

Speaker 1 24:40

We've never introduced.

Speaker 2 24:42

We haven't.

Speaker 1 24:43

This is terrible, how terrible of us. I call her Stephanie, from the book.

Speaker 2 24:47

She's famous in my house, stephanie from the book Stephanie. Why don't you explain what facilitated communication is, because I think there are a lot of people out there who might not know what it is.

Speaker 3 24:56

So as Emily's communication partner, I think that I offer a lot of different support in different ways. The actual touch was intended to be as a cue, especially when you teach communication. There are a lot of things that you have to teach, like hey, we asked you a question, there's an expectation there, so we actually have to teach a lot of people like this is how the back and forth goes. So it starts as a cue, and support actually began way long ago, probably at the wrist right, oh no, it's always way up here.

Speaker 3 25:29

So when I I think when I started typing with Emily, I just picked up where her last communication partner had left off. So her support has faded. Now to the shoulder.

Speaker 1 25:38

And sometimes the elbow there's a touch. No elbow, no elbow. Emmy was always way up here. Okay, yeah, yeah Great.

Speaker 2 25:47

Thank you.

Speaker 1 25:49

I have another question. This one's from Scott, who says Emily, you used to paint when you were younger, as I recall. Do you still express yourself sometimes through painting? Who's Scott is I know, and how does he know?

Speaker 3 26:04

Emily.

Speaker 1 26:06

What's going on here? You have fans already, Emily.

Speaker 3 26:10

Everybody knows, emily. It has been a while while. It's all over. It has been a while, it's all over that.

Speaker 1 26:51

She's over that. She's over that.

Speaker 2 26:57

So this is a question for Valerie Parents everywhere will want to hear about Emily's point of view on what causes meltdowns, especially in nonverbal autistics. Has it helped lessen Emily's own meltdowns?

Speaker 1 27:11

Yes, emily describes what a meltdown feels like in the book with pretty great clarity. There's no question that Emily has become a much calmer person, a much more receptive person and a much more flexible person as a result of being able to communicate Absolutely. It's huge. I mean it's a huge life changer.

Speaker 3 27:28

It is result of being able to communicate.

Emily's Breakthrough Moment

Speaker 1 27:29

Yeah, it's huge. I mean it's a huge. It's a huge life changer. It is, Wasn't it Emily? Yes, yeah, Huge life changer, and I mean it's. I mean communication is key. I can't really.

Speaker 1 27:44

I mean when I said that that what is it called First? When I said that what is it called First responders, if the first responders were to read Emily's descriptions, that might save another situation like this horrible situation that you were mentioning. That happened. Emily so eloquently describes. You know what happens with her body and you know I've lived with panic attacks my whole life. I can understand when your body takes over and you, you know, really have to talk in your head and talk yourself off. But it's so beautifully written and it really opens up our, the whole world's eyes to what is going on when we we, you, you and Tom both you didn't know what was going. Now she can describe that and I think that's why this book is so important and it should be like required reading is what I meant to say the description yes, because you know it's, it's the I don't want to say that person in ucla didn't know what she was doing.

Speaker 1 28:44

But that person who didn't know what she was doing in ucla, if she had just listened and just turned around and just looked into Emily's eyes, emily would have said to her you know, but this is not uncommon, and I think that many people who read the book this incident will resonate maybe not precisely in the same way, but it will resonate because this is very typical. People don't listen to our people. You know, individuals who are providing support, people don't listen to our people. Individuals who are providing support often don't want to listen because they, unlike the community of typers, don't presume competence. They presume that they're going to be the master, they're going to decide and they're going to boss people around.

Speaker 1 29:22

Well thinking human beings don't want to be bossed around. They want to be a participant and they want to have a say in their life. And this is how it was with Emily. She wanted to have a say in her life and now she does have a say in her life. You know her life is. You know she guides what she does. I mean we just we did her room, she made all the decisions about her room right. I mean, I bought things for her room.

Speaker 3 29:47

She didn't like them, they went back. I love the story of the Ritz crackers.

Speaker 1 29:50

It's like I wasn't being argumentative, I just felt like Ritz crackers mom, I love that, yeah, yeah, there's just so much choice is taken away by other people and no one wants that taken away. This is a heavy question. What's that? That's something else. Michelle asks Valerie, how did you and Tom stay together when so many special needs parents end up divorcing over such stress? Well, you know you have to read the book, yeah, yeah, well, there were, we had our moments, but I don't know. It's just a very strong love for each other, obviously, and also just a strong love for this person, yeah, for our person, right?

Speaker 1 30:33

Well, I and we just we equal, I mean there's just, I mean we equally, we adore her equally. Yes, you know, I mean, I just know. The sweetest man, and just when you think you can't love Tom more you read that book.

Speaker 3 30:46

Can't love.

Speaker 1 30:48

Tom Moore. He should be sainted. Yeah Well, he should, especially, you know, because I was not easy. I mean, as you read the book you'll see how I was not easy. I was not easy and he, he was sort of tamping me down a lot because I was the tiger mom. I mean, I really was. And there will be people that will read this and go I was a nightmare and all the people say, yeah well, she did what she had to do?

Speaker 1 31:12

I don't think anybody's going to read that and think of you as a nightmare. I'm sorry. Well, I'm sure people at the school district did.

Speaker 3 31:20

I saw a lot of myself in your book, didn't I?

Speaker 2 31:22

I kept telling other people that I encountered it to myself. This next question is for Emily. Is the next book going to be a book of poems and that's from Tony? That's that question.

Speaker 1 31:40

What do you think?

Speaker 3 31:40

That is a great guess Guess, but Can't Go Into into detail that is a great guess, but can't go into detail.

Speaker 2 32:42

That's a professional Always play it close to the vest, keep it secret until you're ready to come out with it.

Speaker 3 32:48

I agree with that 100% Yep.

Speaker 2 32:51

All right, you mentioned school and you mentioned she's taking, I think Emily, you're taking four classes, I think before right now she's taken seven classes during the pandemic.

Speaker 1 33:01

Oh sorry, wow, seven classes, seven completed seven classes 4.0 grade point average Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 33:11

So and I believe you said either to me earlier, I think you might have said it here too that Emily wants to be a journalist. Emily, what do you want to write about as a journalist?

Speaker 3 33:22

What are you writing? What do you? I want to talk about things Things that Don't Get debt. I want to talk about things that don't get covered.

Speaker 2 34:22

Okay, that's good. I think it is a noble job and I wish you so much luck in that and I know that my dad played a journalist on TV would be very, very proud of you for making that decision.

Speaker 1 34:39

Yeah. So, Okay, the next question is for Valerie. This is kind of an easy one. What made you decide to write a book?

Speaker 3 34:53

about autism. That's a good question.

Writing, Poetry and College Success

Speaker 1 34:55

So initially, you know my my real approach to the book was that I I really wanted to shine a light on emily and her writings, and so you know, I was it not chopping it around but inquiring about whether it was possible to do such a book and was not really getting a lot of positive responses from people. So eventually we we landed on writing the book that would basically document the journey and in that way we would be able to shine light on Emily's incredible writing and her accomplishments. So I think that it didn't start off as a book of hope. It was more because I really it was really intended as my love letter to Emily, just because I personally, as a mom of this young woman who I thought was so incredibly intelligent, was so tired of people just not giving her the time that she, the tension that she wanted, and I wanted attention on her. So she has a lot of attention on her now.

Speaker 1 36:00

So that's really why I mean it kind of evolved. You know, it really did evolve. It evolved into being a memoir and I think that it's a really actually it was a good decision in many ways, because I think that the as a memoir it probably is more useful to the greater world than simply as a collection of her work or as meaningful as so much of what Emily writes, as insightful as what Emily writes and what she writes every day. I mean, emily writes a poem, a couple of poems or essays almost every single week. So that's kind of how it really did just evolve as a, as a possibility and a great vehicle.

Speaker 1 36:39

So, you know, as far as I'm concerned, I mean the, the grit, the raising of her and the story and the memoir and the backstory is just sort of that background noise, the vehicle to really highlight what you know, what Emily was able to say. And there are some beautiful poems after in kind of like the prologue, but I think, like you say, it's the description and the story of how you got to that point and the breakthrough. That really is the book as a whole. I loved it, I just finished it and I'm just over the moon about it, thank you.

Speaker 2 37:23

This is for Valerie, but I think it's to Emily though, so I think we'll let either one of you answer this, since I can't make heads or tails of who we're asking, but it says Emily in the very beginning. So I'm going to say, emily, we, as parents of autistic children, are told that there is a limited window of time we have in order to help our children, that if we do not see specific improvements in functioning by a certain age, then they will be impossible to achieve. What do you think it was that triggered this amazing breakthrough for Emily at age 25?

Speaker 1 38:01

I think it's probably for me Okay. So when I was just practicing, I initially got into the practice of special educational law. One of the first cases that I had I was representing a young girl who wasn't win the case for us, but he was a psychologist who testified that if a person really doesn't get the level of services they need by seven years of age, then that's it, they're done. They will never be able to get where they want. And I remember taking him out afterwards and saying you know, I don't believe that. I mean, the brain is malleable and ever-changing. And here I am. I was probably 45 years then and I said I'm still changing and learning and doing all of that. I don't believe that. So, in answer to that question, I think that there is no time when you stop learning, and I think this is evidence of that. I think there's no time when there's a cutoff time. There is no finish line with probably any child, but probably less so with our kids. We there's a cut off time. There is no finish line with probably any child, but probably less so with our kids, because there's always more to do. And I think that this book stands for that exact proposition that don't stop doing what you need to do and looking for alternatives, because if we had stopped, if we had given up and we had said we're done, this never would have happened. And because we pursued it, because you really, you really keep going, you really have to look at, uncover. You go under every rock, undercover every possibility and, interestingly, with facilitate communication.

Speaker 1 39:36

It was something that we had pursued when she was much younger and it didn't gel right. It just didn't work. Emily wasn't ready and emily's own words, which which are reflected in the book, you know, after you know, the book details the incident which occurred, which I'm not going to give it away, why it is that we what occasioned sort of the breakthrough, but it was kind of that Emily reached a point where she was ready. She herself was ready, and I think that's so interesting that she I mean, that's what she said I was ready to do it. And I think that's so interesting because don't we all do things when we're ready? We all do it, and she got to that point. It was a breaking point and she was ready and she did it. So you know, one of the points I'm really hoping that the book will make is that parents shouldn't stop.

Speaker 1 40:23

There's no magical age. They turn 18 and you conserve or don't conserve and they become adults technically. But it's meaningless, it's just an age, it's a number. You know it's. Keep doing what you have to do as long as you can do it. And I realized that for so many people that is a huge challenge because you know you're tired. You know you're tired of putting a lot of. If you've been doing it right, you've been putting a lot of hard years in it's hard work. People are exhausted. Keep at it.

Speaker 2 40:52

Don't give up.

Speaker 1 40:53

Don't give up. You can't give up. Don't listen always to experts. I'm sorry, that's a pretty global statement.

Speaker 2 40:59

I think it is Listen to experts, but listen to yourself.

Speaker 1 41:04

He's the reasonable one. I think it's always a mix. You know what I mean. I mean I was certainly the most, you know, educated. I mean I would go everywhere there was no conference I went to, there wasn't an event I didn't go to, starting from the time that she was quite young. I mean I went everywhere, I listened to everyone, I took it all in. I went everywhere, I listened to everyone, I took it all in. I would take extensive notes, I would look at everything, I would think to myself and I would try to balance whether it made sense to me, and a lot of the time it really is a matter of whether it makes sense. Does it pass the smell test? Is this right for our family? Is it the right thing to do? And some things, is it the right thing to do? And you know some things you're going to have a sense that they're not going to work anymore or that you shouldn't do them or whatever, but it's a challenge.

Speaker 1 41:56

And also when you guys started, there was a change in technology. I mean, there's this scene where you know Tom's teaching Emily about computers and it was the very kind of the beginning of even having a desktop or something like that. So, technology changes. So if a parent starts here, don't stop, because there might be a technology. You know years as the technology improves, Because FC was not available to a lot of I know your brother was in his 30s and my nephew who's older, and today there are so many more opportunities.

Speaker 2 42:36

I mean, even our phones are so advanced that when will we be in 20 years Exactly? Who knows?

Speaker 1 42:41

I don't know, you just asked that one, I expect to be, hearing from you about it in 20 years, emily, what? Do you think of that?

Speaker 2 42:49

I think you're going to be the one that tells me Next question.

Speaker 1 42:56

What would Emily hope that we can all learn from her experience? And that's directed to Emily what would you hope, Emily? What would you hope that people would learn from reading the book about you?

Speaker 3 43:11

Yeah, oh, there's a question. Okay, pat that people have many, many Thoughts, even If they.

Speaker 2 44:06

Can't they?

Speaker 3 44:13

can't get. They can't get Fat. People have many thoughts, even if they can't get them out.

Speaker 2 44:23

Yes, Very important.

Speaker 1 44:28

Very important. I think that's really the essence now just because you can't speak doesn't mean you don't have anything to say that's right.

Speaker 2 44:34

That leads to my first question. Yeah, emily, what is? What is your greatest joy? That this comes from, from victor, what is your greatest joy?

Speaker 3 44:57

My, my parents.

Emily's Future as a Journalist

Speaker 2 45:08

Oh Wow, that was unexpected that's what we all want our children to say. That's great. Thank you, emily. I think I'm going to have to say now, valerie, what's your greatest joy?

Speaker 3 45:25

Emily I think.

Speaker 1 45:26

I'm going to have to say now, valerie, what's your greatest joke, emily? Emily, that was beautiful, that's great. Okay, emily, another one for you. Would you like to have some pen pals, because you are going to. You know there's some people here who want to be pen pals with you. Are you ready to make some friends? And so many people are going to. You know there's some people here who want to be pen pals with you. Are you ready to make some friends? And so many people are going to be reading your book. So would you like to have some more pen pals? Yes, yes, okay.

Speaker 2 45:55

Yes.

Speaker 1 45:57

So do you guys have a website that people can go to and talk to Emily and ask post questions directly to Emily and to you? Yes, and talk to Emily and ask post questions directly to Emily and to you? Yes, there's a link to our emails and it's wwwemilygrodincom or wwwvaleriegilpiercom.

Speaker 2 46:16

Emilygrodincom or valeriegilpiercom, and we'll put that in on our Facebook page.

Speaker 1 46:23

What an honor that the book was just named Book of the Month on Amazon that is amazing A book choice. That's one on fiction. We are really happy with the response that it's had so far. Very pleased.

Speaker 2 46:42

Well, I think we're going to end it here, and I just want to say that this has been inspirational. I think there are a lot of families out there who are looking for answers, and certainly this book might not have every answer, but it's a great place to look. If you buy this book and take a look at it, I think it has a lot of wonderful. It's a great place to look. If you buy this book and take a look at it, I think it has a lot of wonderful. It's a book of hope.

Speaker 1 47:11

Thank you.

Speaker 2 47:13

And it's very much, I think, an important book in the autism world. Thank you, and I think, as I said in the little blurb, I think Emily is a voice for a once voiceless generation and I congratulate you both on the brilliance of the book. Thank you, and I hope it's nothing but successful.

Speaker 1 47:34

Thank you so much. And it's only the beginning for Emily, because her poems are magnificent and I know that it's only the beginning and you're going to inspire and write beautiful things for many years to come and I'm very excited to read it. Thank you.

Speaker 3 47:51

You're very welcome.

Speaker 1 47:52

Yeah, no, she's. She's got stuff under her In the works, right yeah.

Speaker 2 47:59

So if you would like to, to purchase this book I've been buried under years of dust you can go to Amazon or, if you can find one, a bookstore. It's been released by HarperCollins and so it's Amazon iBooks.

Speaker 1 48:14

BookSoup. Locally, it's at BookSoup BookSoup. Well, you can order BookSoup. The website has all of the links to various outlets that are selling the book.

Speaker 2 48:23

We congratulate you.

Speaker 1 48:24

Thank you so much, we appreciate that.

Speaker 2 48:26

And we thank you out there and until next time. This has been Matt Asner and Nava Paskowitz-Asner for the Ed Talks.

Speaker 1 48:34

Thank you.