The Brainy Moms

Gaslighting, Narcissism, and Other Teen Buzzwords: A Therapist's Guide for Parents | Stacy Schaffer

• Dr. Amy Moore • Season 5 • Episode 531

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Teens today live at the intersection of real mental health risks and viral misused language like gaslighting, narcissism, and DID. On this episode of The Brainy Moms podcast, Dr. Amy sat down with children’s therapist Stacy Schaffer to unpack how parents can support mental health without turning every rough patch into a diagnosis. Stacy shares the story behind her new book and the core idea that guides her work: integrate tough histories into practical, present-day tools so kids feel seen, safe, and capable.

We dig into the messy middle of modern childhood—where TikTok trends meet group-chat drama and where grooming, exclusion, and “subtle” cruelty often fly under the bullying radar. Stacy offers concrete steps for delaying social platforms, keeping an open pulse on online connections, and having frank, age-appropriate talks about consent, safety, and the law. We also explore why framing therapy as a gift changes everything, and how to invite teens into the process so they feel respected rather than “sent.”

A big theme is language. Words like trauma, gaslighting, narcissist, and DID carry weight and meaning; when they get stretched to cover discomfort or disagreement, everyone loses clarity. Stacy walks us through what those terms actually mean, when they apply, and how to teach kids a simple 1–10 scale that builds perspective without dismissing pain. We also clarify dissociation versus dissociative identity disorder and offer scripts that keep compassion high while holding responsibility steady: “You’re in charge of all your parts.”

Along the way, we talk about modeling healthy conflict at home, building emotion regulation, and helping kids collect “data” from hard moments they survived. If you’ve wondered how to respond when your teen throws out a buzzword, how to know when it’s time for counseling, or how to keep kids safer online, this conversation delivers calm, clear guidance you can use today.

About Stacy Schaffer
Stacy Schaffer is a Licensed Professional Counselor with over twenty years of experience helping children, teens, and young adults navigate emotional and behavioral challenges. Based in Arvada, Colorado, she is the founder and director of Stacy Schaffer Counseling and specializes in both grief therapy and Synergetic Play Therapy. Her extensive training includes a Master's Degree in Professional Counseling from Ottawa University, a Graduate Diploma in Christian Counseling from Phoenix Seminary, and certifications in Synergetic Play Therapy and EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing). She is a proud member of both the National Association of Play Therapy and the Colorado Association for Play Therapy. She’s the author of the book, With Love from a Children's Therapist about lessons she’s learned from her practice.

About Us
The Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore. Dr. Amy and her co-hosts have conversations with experts in parenting, child development, education, psychology, mental health, and neuroscience. Listeners leave with tips and advice for helping moms and kids thrive in life, learning, and relationships. If you love us, add us to your playlist!


ABOUT US:
The Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore. Dr. Amy and her co-hosts have conversations with experts in parenting, child development, education, psychology, mental health, and neuroscience. Listeners leave with tips and advice for helping moms and kids thrive in life, learning, and relationships. If you love us, add us to your playlist!

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Dr. Amy Moore:

Hi, Smart Moms and Dads. Welcome to another episode of the Brainy Moms Podcast brought to you today by Learning RX Brain Training Centers. I'm Dr. Amy Moore, and I am here with my guest, Stacy Schaefer. And Stacy and I are going to talk about all things kids and teen mental health today. Stacy is a licensed professional counselor with over 20 years of experience helping children, teens, and young adults navigate emotional and behavioral challenges. She's based in Arvada, Colorado, just right down the road from me in Colorado Springs. And so she specializes in grief therapy and synergetic play therapy. And so we're gonna just dive right in because I'm so excited to have you here today, Stacy. Stacy is also the author of a brand new book. Tell us about your book.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Um, this I like I brought it just in case, but um, it is called With Love from a Children's Therapist, hashtag lessons I've learned along the way. Um, and I've been saying like it it is part my story of resilience of coming from a traumatic childhood myself to 20 years of experience of sitting on the other side of the couch and what I've learned and would like to share with the greater world.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So I have to tell you, I've never been so not prepared for this interview. And let me tell you what I mean by that. So normally when I am uh preparing for an interview, I read through a guest's book, right? I just read through it. Okay, this is what they talk about. You know, here are a couple talking points. I get an idea of who my guest is. Um, and then I create an outline. And like, you know, there are experts in this topic. I really want to make sure I cover it. So what happened with you is that I started reading your book, and you are a magnetic writer. And I found myself reading every word. Oh, like every word. And so I get to page 150, and I'm like, I'm out of time. I like I don't have time to read every word through page 230 before this interview, right? Like I have meetings, I have clients, I have right, and so I thought, oh my gosh, we're just gonna get on and talk because your story is so impactful. And you know, you talk about your word of the year being integrate. And I I don't think that could be a more perfect uh description of how you have taken your own really hard experiences and said, I'm gonna be able to hold space for every single client I work with in a way that many therapists could never imagine doing. Because it's one thing to have the capacity to guide and the capacity to ask the right questions and to give tools to reframe how we think. But to sit in a space of saying, I see you, I hear you, although my experience might not be exactly what yours is, I can only imagine. And I like so I was so drawn in. Uh, I cried. Um anyway, so I'm so excited to have you here.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Wow, like that that was really powerful. I thought when you're like, I'm not prepared you're that. I thought you were gonna say I didn't get to it yet. And I'd be like, that's okay. Um so that's no you were about to.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Well, I would never have meant that. Like Yeah, okay. I didn't read your book. I have no idea what we're talking about today.

Stacy Schaeffer:

You know, I would Yeah. No, I mean that means so much to me. Thank you for saying that. Like it's I'm pretty proud of it. I'm pretty proud of my book.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, and you know, you said, hey, I'm excited to hear what you think, but it's a lot. And yeah, it's a lot. Um, and I think um it might be overwhelming for some people, right? Um I mean, I'm in the mental health field, so I can differentiate, but at the same time felt so moved.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Thank you for saying that. Like that that means so much. Some of the reviews, because like those matter so much. I've like said, you know, said stuff like that, like it was a surprise that came from nowhere. Um, and so I'm like, you know, like every review just makes me cry. But one of my one of my friends was like, I have to take this really slow, um, because she's like, I'm just crying a lot. And so um, and she's like, I'm I promise like I'm reading it, but I I want to give it time.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. I yeah, that's probably a healthy approach for some people, um, especially adults who have not done their own inner work. Um I could see how that might be difficult to digest in one sitting for sure.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yeah, yeah. So I started working with like a social media coach because I'm supposed to promote and that that's not my JM. I like to write, I don't like to market. Um, but she had me create kind of four like five pillars of the the what I want to say in my message. And the fourth pillar is about therapists doing their own work, um, like how crucial that is, and how you can take your clients to a more authentic place doing that.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So yeah, absolutely. Because then because you learn how to reflect on how you can empathize or reflect on how you can relate, and even you know, some self-disclosure can be really healthy to build trust, but you don't um you don't get pulled in so that you can't be fully present, right? If you haven't, yeah.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Like, and I had to get okay with the fact that um clients and client, you know, current clients and client parents were would pick it up. Um, I had a teenager that was like 10 minutes into this session to be. So I listened to your audiobook and I'm like, oh, okay. So, you know, what uh what stood out to you? And I didn't want to make the whole session about that, but I wanted to honor that. I mean, that's gotta feel a little weird, like your therapist, you know, having it all laid out there. Yeah. Yeah. So I wanted to write in a way that didn't trigger or traumatize other people, um, and in a way that like protected me, that it was like, you know, this isn't everything. You know, my my therapist, the alignment they came up with was that you can tell people you are abused in every way possible, including trafficking, but you have found that the details of the abuse are not as helpful as talking about your resilience and your job. So that's that's what I'm at. Because I I think, you know, there's I've encountered some people that that want to sensationalize it, and that's not what I'm about. Like you know, like I don't think that that's helpful. Sure, sure. You know, and so I was like, well, I I know what it's like to be on both sides of the of the couch and what I missed. And so I try to fill in the gaps of what you know younger Stacy deserved and didn't get.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, for sure.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Um, so when did you release your book? It came out mid-April. Okay. And then I did my own audiobook. Um I flew to Nashville to do my own audiobook, and that came out in May. Um, and so yeah, so it's it still feels like pretty new, but it was like August, uh April.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. Well, it was interesting when you emailed me and you were so excited about your audio book, and I I always smile because um I don't listen to books. I like I I've listened to one book, and that was back in uh the early 1990s when you borrowed books on tape from the library. Yeah. Um, and so I was on a road trip and I said, okay, I'm gonna listen to um a book on tape, and I will never forget what it was. It was Bridges of Madison County. Um, so I listened to this, and I hit downtown Charleston, West Virginia, like middle of downtown in rush hour, 5 p.m. traffic, and I'm sobbing my eyes out, right? Because it's at the climax of the book. Sobbing. I don't know where I am. I've never been in the middle of downtown Charleston, West Virginia before. I can't read my map because this is way before cell phones or anything from work. And it was like such a big experience, uh, a big emotional experience. I'm not lost and I can't find my way. And I said, I'm never listening to another book on tape ever again.

Stacy Schaeffer:

It's like back when we were like pirates and had things like printed out from MapQuest. And you're just like, you're like, that's not, that's not where the turn is. Yeah. I too am not an audiobook person. Um, but one of my good therapist friends, like, she's like, I don't know if you know this, but I'm dyslexic and I only listen to audiobooks. And so I'm I'm learning how many people are, but I am not. Like, I I think I remember the one I listened to in grad school to get more indirect hours. Yeah. And then it was like Brooke Shields, like, postpartum depression journey. And I was like, that was intense. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Well, and I'm the type that I like to put sticky notes in my book. I like to find things, I like to return to it again and again. And that, like, how do you do? I mean, I'm sure you can bookmark audiobooks too. I don't know. But um, yeah. So, but yes, my husband listens to them, my boys listen to them. I mean, it is a thing, and some people love it. And I know people who are who say, look, I can get all my chores done while I'm listening to a book. I can't get my chores done if I'm sitting in a chair reading a book. And there's validity to that. Sure.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Multitasking. We like to multitask. I I feel though that if I were to do that, I would either not completely listen or not do the task well. Sure.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. Yes, I have an ADHD brain. So I would be the same way. In fact, I would just rather not do the chores. Sit chair and read the book. And I think that's okay too.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yeah. Well, thank you for saying that. I hope that like you continue to love it and share with people because it's it's my heart out there in a book.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, absolutely. Um, okay, so one of the things that I gleaned from the book that I'd love for us to spend some time on today is just um how do we support our children through hard things? How do we know um when does my child need therapy? And what does that conversation look like? Right. So, how are we supportive so um that it doesn't feel like a punishment, that it feels like, hey, I'm noticing that you know you might be struggling here and I would love to get you some help? Like, what do those conversations sound like? Um, and what kind of conversations do more harm? Um, like what kind of conversations should we be avoiding? Um, how are words matter? Um I think that we um we encounter parents who just want us to give them advice that will fix their child rather than recognizing that this is a family dynamic, that many times it's the parents who need uh some tools.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Um yeah, no, that's that's really good. I don't know if you I I'm guessing where you're at in the book, you got to truth bombs. Um, the chapter hashtag truth bombs. It's okay. Um, but I like I talk in there about how we try so hard to be relatable um to our kids. And in doing so, sometimes that's really invalidating. Yes. And so I feel like that's the the the intention is pure and there to connect. Um, but I think it's hard. Um, you know, like I know you're I'm in the Colorado area too, but um, we're not that far from the Evergreen um shooting, you know, and I and I see people that live in Evergreen because they come down the mountain, it's a small town, and um I you can support and do everything I can to show up, but I don't know what that's like to have your entire life with lockdown drills and to be and you don't know any different. You don't know any different, yeah. And so I I am often pretty honest about like I am really sorry we have failed you, like as a nation. We have and like here's some things we can do to like to try to feel safe in that, but help me understand what it's like to be you because I lived in a world where I don't I don't know if I would have gone to school if that was something that was in the forefront of my mind. So I think recognizing, I mean that alone, like you know, social violence, but like social media, uh, you know, it's it's a whole different time to be a kid and a teenager. Yeah. But I think it's important to like to honor that.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Absolutely. Um yeah, so let's talk about that. I do want to talk about some uh, you know, social media TikTok uh vocabulary trends um that are really, I think, impacting teenage mental health, especially. And so, you know, words like gaslighting and you're violating my boundaries, and uh I have DID and all the things. In fact, I'm standing in the checkout line at Sprouts. And the the girl is ringing me up and she's like, How's your day been? And I'm like, Oh, super busy. Oh, what do you do? I'm a psychologist. Oh, yeah, I have DID. Here we go.

Stacy Schaeffer:

You're like, didn't I go to the express checkout?

Dr. Amy Moore:

I'm like, I'm sorry. I mean, what did you say in the middle of the grocery store? Like this emoji. You're like, and so I think I said something like, wow, that must be tough. But like, I was so shocked. Like so shocked. Uh but it was, it just rolled off her tongue. It was like this super casual. I'm gonna disclose, you know, my issues because you're a psychologist.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Right. Yeah, and she's like, and I I know terms and I know my diagnosis. You're like, I don't know where to start with. Okay.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. So I I do want to talk about like how that's just how that wasn't our world. Right. Like we heard those terms either as psych majors in college, um, or if we were actually in therapy ourselves, right? We didn't just hear those so casually. And I feel like right now we have a tendency to pathologize um the extreme ends of normal um in every way. And I think that that does our kids a disservice.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Um, for sure. I I definitely didn't know the term narcissist until I was an adult, but I I hear that come out of kids' mouths all the time, you know, and it's not like they're necessarily wrong, but like also let's not diagnose people when we're 12. Just saying.

unknown:

Yeah.

Stacy Schaeffer:

You know, I'm like, like, and you know, kids other kids are allowed to not like you, and that doesn't make them a narcissist. Just throwing that out there.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Just throwing that out there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, it's such a powerful book. Um, and I just I love the way that you are able to take um the trauma that you experienced again and again as a child um and integrate that into your work with kids now. Um, and so it's yeah, it's such uh, I think I called you a magnetic writer. Um you you just hook your reader from the first sentence and uh we stay hooked through the whole book.

Stacy Schaeffer:

So well, thank you so much for saying that. That means so much to me, especially as it's new, you know, and like starting to get feedback because I've gotten great feedback, but I've been saying, but the reviews, I know them. So I'm like, you know, people already like, you know, already cheerleading me. And so it's you know, there's truth, but it's hard to know. And so it really helps that you had no experience of me and said those things. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Um, well, it's the truth. So yeah. Um, all right. So when you were uh planning this book, like why did you think that this was such an important book to put out there?

Stacy Schaeffer:

Uh those are good questions. Um there was there's just like a combination of things. Um one is that I hear so many similar things, like along along the lines of what what kids wish parents knew, um, or trends that maybe you know people didn't know about. And you we we both know, but I'll just say for you know your listeners, the limits of confidentiality. You know, if you're gonna hurt yourself, someone else, someone's hurting you, right? That's that's when the rules change. But I have found that there's so much in the gray that would be really helpful for parents. And so I tell kids how it works is that I'll tell your parents something I said, something we did, but I'll never quote you. And so sometimes it's really tricky if a kid says to me, I really hate it when my mom slams doors but tells me she's fine, right? Because like that's incongruent. And so I want to say something along the lines of like, how would you feel about your mom? And uh having a conversation about it. And they're like, no, no, no, no. She'll say, I'm the worst parent ever I know, and it'll make it worse. And so sometimes it feels like I'm a little trapped um in in what to do because it doesn't violate you know any of those limits, um, but it'd be real helpful. Um and so I like started to accumulate things like that over the years, and so that's part, that's that part of the book.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, so it gives you a way to take all of the things that you've heard that were impactful in a negative way for the most part, uh, to kids or teens. Um, and it gives you a way to say, hey, parents, you need to think about some of this. Right.

Stacy Schaeffer:

And I, and just so we're clear, I think that my was very intentionally, because I've thought about this book for about a decade. Um, but it's intentional that it's called With Love, um, because it is so important to me that parents do not feel ashamed or less than or anything like that. Because I mean, even listening to this podcast, but picking up a book, um, wanting to do better as a clinician, um, you know, learning along the lines of like, what would it take to bring my kid to counseling? Anything in that thought process, that's a lot better than previous generations, let me tell you what. And so it's important to me that parents like feel like, no, I really respect you for wanting to do better. Like, are you kidding? My life would have been so different.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and the reality is, and I actually say this in in my book, um, that we have to stop asking ourselves, am I a good parent? Yes. Because that just leads to us, you know, ending up in a, you know, puddle of tears in our living room floor. Um, because that's such a squishy idea, yes, parents. Right. Um, and we have to start saying, like, am I parenting in a way that's congruent with my values and what I value in this relationship with my child? And the reality is we're gonna screw it up. We do screw it up. Um, but we do the best that we can with the information that we have at the time. And so what I see in your book is valuable information, right? These are things that I might want to consider and how they might impact my child, right? Like if I don't get a hold of my own emotion regulation, then how can I expect my child to be able to regulate their emotions? Or what impact, you know, is my own unresolved childhood trauma going to have on my child? And so is there something that I should be doing? Right. Like all of this amazing information that you've gleaned from your years and years and years of experience is information that we can use just so that maybe we don't screw it up as badly today.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, one of my um one of my best friends that I read about um a lot, Carolyn, um, who's a therapist, she told me her mom read the book, and her mom is like, I am gonna be a better grandparent to these kids because I like learned some. And it's not like she didn't have exposure to mental health, you know, like Carolyn's brilliant. Um, but I think hearing it from a different angle is beneficial. And so I wanted to, you know, like incorporate like everything I know from felt sense to like personal experience to like clinical knowledge in one book.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. Well, you did it. Yeah. Um, okay, so let's talk a little bit about um what is happening with our kids right now? Like, what is different about today's generation of kids and teens um from their parents' generation? And so, like, what do we need to be conscious of? What do we need to be sensitive to? Um, but what do we need to be open to? Sure. Yeah.

Stacy Schaeffer:

I mean, I think like, you know, the social media like piece, one could argue like for or against for hours, right? Um, because it that's just the way things work now that you know we are online. Um I have seen so many kids experience again with the gray area where it's not bullying, but it's like it's it's intentional what other kids can do to each other. And so I I find it really hard. I mean, I've seen some text threads with like mean girl stuff that I I'm are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Um, sometimes you know, kids will post if they're trying to ostracize a kid, a TikTok and leave the kid it's watching out of it, and so they know they weren't invited to this thing, and this kid is not gonna report on being bullied because they're allowed to make a TikTok. But there's just there's so much nuance to like how you know humans can hurt one another. Um, and so and social media um makes it like an onslaught. So I I personally think my belief is to hold out as long as possible, um, to let your kids have it. And that's and it's not saying that your kid isn't trustworthy, it's just that like it's a scary world. Like, let's kind of avoid that as long as we can. So I think that's one component of social media.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, and I think that, you know, we've seen the dangers of, you know, trying to curate relationships online, right? And it's not always with uh kids their own age.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Oh yes, yeah. I've I've definitely seen um the impact of kids being groomed. Um there's this robot Roblox game called Adopt Me. And um, you can like trade little neon animals or whatever. Whatever. Um, and like, and so these kids who are usually like eight or nine, oftentimes girls, will like think they're trading, and then it ends up being a like a grown adult that is doing having conversation. And what I think is so hard is that you know, it's like how to like boil like a frog, you know, you put it in the water and you continue to turn it up, and eventually the the frog's like boiling, but it didn't realize it because it was gradual. I think what is really hard is that sometimes kids and teens will get themselves into these scenarios, whether it's like talking to, you know, somebody on Instagram, um, like all the things, and then they'll get trapped um in a in a situation and not know what to do at that point because they're incriminating themselves. If they're like, I actually sent pictures of myself to this person, and now this person is threatening to share with everybody if I don't give them money. Um, and so it's like is it's so so dangerous. And so I think as much as we can keep a pulse on who they're talking to and what's going on, it's just it's the better. Yeah, it's scary. It's really scary.

Dr. Amy Moore:

You wrote something that I did not know. We live in the same state, but you said in the state of Colorado, um, not only is it a felony to have naked photographs of a minor, but it's a felony for the minor to have naked photographs of themselves on their device. Correct.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yeah. They will, if they get caught, it will it will label them as a sex offender. Like, and you're you're 12. And so yeah, they and you know, the the police like warn the kids and stuff, and they're like, you know, kids. Um, but yeah, that I mean, that is something that is it's that's it's just so dangerous. And kids will tell me, like, well, I have it hidden on a folder. I'm like, do you really think you're smarter than like the tech guy? Like, come on. Yeah. And so I I think that it's so important to start those conversations, you know, when they're young, even younger than we do have those. You know, uh, we have, I don't know, um, in this county in Jefferson County, they do growing and changing the second semester um of fifth grade, the final semester in fifth grade. And I frankly think that should happen sooner. Nobody asks me though, but I think it should happen sooner because it's kids are getting access to out there like sooner and sooner. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Wow. And I think that we could mention that in addition to like potential sexual predators and grooming and trafficking and anything that can start to happen with those relationships online, there's also uh this social media culture that influences how teens especially think about themselves and think about their relationships with their parents and talk to one another. I mean, it influences there's this um language that they're learning on social media, a lot of mental health terminology that they would not know otherwise, that then they're just adopting and normalizing. Um, and it impacts every single interaction that they have. And so, you know, using words like you're gaslighting me or you've just triggered me or you're violating my boundaries, which by the way, is important to hold strong boundaries. Please don't get me wrong. Um, but I think you use the example that your parent asking you to take out the trash as one of your chores is not violating a boundary.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Right? Yeah. They're like, my my right to peace. Like, come on. Like, yeah, no, like absolutely. And I I think uh yeah, I think it's a like it's a flipped coin that it is so amazing that you know it's in the common vernacular of kids about like red flags and green flags. Love that journey, love that. Um, and I'll have those conversations with kids. Well, you have this friend fallout, like what do you know now? You know, those are those are great conversations, but I think sometimes the language can be weaponized. Um, and say, you know, like I'm not attacking my dad anymore because he's a narcissist. And you're like, I mean, your your dad's tricky, but like that's I mean, if you adopt that, then like every interaction is gonna be dismissed, and that's not really fair to him. Sure. You know, and so I I feel like that can be really, really complicated. I do love that kids are, I feel like it's saving lives, that they are open about therapy much more than previous generations. Like I had this mom call me and it's a third grader, and she's like, My kid talked to a kid on the playground about you, and is that the cutest referral you've ever had in your life? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I do think it is. Yeah, and so it's it's amazing, and they don't understand when I go over confidentiality in the intake when I say if I see you in public, you can say hi to me, I can't say hi to you. And they're like, but like why? And like you might be with a friend and they might be like, Who is that? And why does she wear so much purple? And like, those are questions you can't answer because I don't know, I just like it. Um, like, and kids like almost like 100% of the time say, Why wouldn't I just say you're my therapist? And I'm like, you can. Um, but it just I just think it's saving lives that they're open.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, absolutely. And so I let's like so let's talk about that. Um let's talk about um what is the difference between normal uh childhood, teenage angst, and red flags for I think my child might need some professional help. Where we we differentiate that? Or do we not? Do we say this concerns me? Therefore, maybe we should talk to a professional.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Do you guys yeah? No, I think that's important. I mean, frankly, I think everyone could benefit. Um I think that too. Like I respect so, so much um the parents who um bring me a kid who is the sibling of a more challenging kid. And they're like, I don't want their needs to be neglected. And so, like, I'll, you know, I'll say to you know, the sibling, like, like it sounds like it's hard. Like, when tell me, tell me why it's hard being a sibling, and they're like, we don't get to do fun things because they tantrum and ruin everything or whatever. So I just I think that's beautiful that it's like the one who isn't on fire is getting support. Um I think that it's so much about like a pulse on your kid, you know, like if you if you can't really articulate what is like going on with them, like mentally, if it's just if it's confusing, um, if like the behavior is like out of sorts from the kid that you know, I think you know, those are also flags. Um, and if your your kid isn't communicating, and a lot of times teenagers don't, right? Like, I'm fine, but um, but I would say, frankly, listen to your gut. Um, because you know, if you I've said to a uh parent before, like I've met with a kid, they're just like we're worried about him because XYZ is out of class from him. And do I think he could have like had a good experience in therapy? Yeah. Do I think anything is really on fire? No. Do I want him to be open to therapy if there is a big need? Yes. So I'm like, here's the thing: I don't see anybody who is forced here. Like, because that's a waste of everyone's time. Obviously, you don't know what you're expecting the first time, so that's a different thing. But I I want therapy to be framed as a gift as opposed to there's something wrong with you.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Absolutely. In fact, I always ask when I meet with a child or a teen, whose idea was it? Oh, yeah, that's for you to come today. Yeah.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Great. That's a great question. Yeah. Yeah. I I I always say, so were you dragged here? This little kid once said, No, I was driven here. I was like, that's adorable. But yeah, like that, I mean, that's that's important. And kids will like confess to me like four sessions in. I like didn't want to come in the first time. I'm like, of course you didn't. I'm a stranger. Like, of course you didn't. Like, I'm like, I'm glad you're here now, though.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, absolutely. So, how do we begin um to use language that normalizes um seeing a therapist just like we would see the pediatrician for a checkup or the dentist for a dental cleaning, right? How do we encourage parents to use language that doesn't make a child or teen feel um that they are experiencing a pathological issue when maybe it's um an adjustment issue, right? Like maybe it's, hey, I just want to make sure that everything's going okay.

unknown:

Yeah.

Stacy Schaeffer:

I mean, I think, I think it is really validating to acknowledge the world in which they live. Um, to be like it, you know, it's it's hard out there. You know, like when kids said to me, I don't, I don't know, I'm depressed. I'm like, you live in the world. Like, you know, it's it's a challenging place to be for all of us. Um, and I'm like, we all deserve support. So I think the language around um that around the word support, it's like, you know, there's nothing wrong with you, but I wish I would have had this when I was like, you know, whatever age, insert age. Um, because I always say to parents, like, wouldn't that be different if you had someone to talk to when you were 10? They're like, yeah, like what? Um, because it is part of my soapbox, if you will, um, that we say kids are resilient. Okay, but why are so many adults in therapy talking about their childhood? It's not that they're not resilient, like because they have to be, but like, do we have to end the sentence there? Um, because that that feels frustrating to me. Because I'm like, the kids are fine. Like, what are you talking about? You're an adult, and like your every session is about when you're seven. You know, so I I think you're like, if we have the conversation around, I want to give you tools now so that things aren't as hard as maybe they were for me growing up with your grandma. You've met grandma, right? Like, you know, that kind of thing.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, and I think um that statement that kids are resilient um is old. Oh, for sure. I think that, you know, the idea that we just, you know, rub some dirt in it, uh, or pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off and get back to it is denying the struggle.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Oh, for sure. My, you know, my mom died um in 2001. And so it was like the same year, September 11th. My mom like died before like texting, right? Um obviously things would have evolved, you know, like you know, had one been alive longer, but my mom would be so confused about my profession. Right? Like, you know, she's a dental hygienist. She was like, I know about teeth, teeth are important, but feelings, like, and so I think um that there's so many shifts that are happening in the world um that that can be really helpful.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, I agree. Um, so let's talk about the word trauma. Okay, so I I hear this word uh thrown around uh by teenagers all the time. And my concern is that we are not differentiating between those things that are uncomfortable and those things that truly um impact our ability to function without an intervention. And I think it also um invalidates the experience of those who really have experienced trauma or unsolved traumatic experiences. Talk a little bit about that and the dangers of throwing it all into the same pot.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yeah, I mean, I think because my kids also know the term PTSD. Um, and so that you know, I hear them say, like, I have PTSD from that math test in second period. And like, okay, you didn't enjoy the math test. Like, let's just start there. Um, but I think it it's really important to have like a scalating system for kids. Um, like I talk a lot in sessions with kids about um on a scale one to 10, where did that land? And so it and like let's be really honest, be really honest. And so uh, you know, there because like it's the end of the world, this thing happened. And so I'm like, on it on a scale, what would land as a 10? Like, what would be the worst? Um, and to insert thing, what is just like minorly irritating? Like, let's start there. Um, and so I think to have kids get perspective, you know, on um what hard days look like versus trauma, um, is giving them better emotional language.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, I like that. That um once they're able to see that uncomfortable and even painful experiences happen in degrees. Sure. Um, and I think that when we give language to those experiences, whether it's words or a rating system, right? Then, you know, at that point we're kind of getting out of the emotion part of our brain and engaging our reasoning skills, right? It pulls us right out of the emotion processing when we name it in some way.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yes, and and I don't want kids to invalidate themselves, like if they're like, I have this trauma from math, but then something happens because life something is gonna happen, you know, then like where does that put this thing? Like, is that survivable? You know, and so I think it's it's important so that they don't develop like a false sense of the world and then feel like unequipped to live in the world.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. But on the flim side, as a parent, we still want to validate how uncomfortable that math test was.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Absolutely. Yeah, nobody wants to like invalidate you, but perspective can change the story. You know, it's like the narrative that they believe the worst thing that ever happened to me, you know, was Mamassa. Then what happens, you know, when like you get your heart broken? Um, or you know, so someone invites someone else to home cut, you know, like all the things, because then they don't have a box to put that in. Like if that was if that was my trauma, like, dear God, what was that? Yeah. So I think, yeah, like to it's actually additionally validating to be like, okay, like I want to honor this hurts, but it's not the end of the world. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore:

And I think that for us to um model what it looks like to work through those uncomfortable situations in the emotional safety of that relationship, right? That that would be our hope with mom or dad or caregiver. Um, then you're able to take, okay, how did I, when did I know I was gonna be okay?

Speaker 4:

Right.

Dr. Amy Moore:

How did I reflect on that experience? How did I handle that one, right? And be able to apply that to the next thing that's up to have data.

Stacy Schaeffer:

And so, you know, because I like sometimes there are a lot of kids that I have have seen a while. Parents like want um then just to have like a constant flow of a same person. And so, and I have a really good memory, which is like real beneficial, but not when I remember, you know, the guy that hurt them a year ago and they want to get back with that guy. But um, and so I'll say, okay, that thing that happened, you have data. You have data, you survived a heart thing. Like, so don't tell me you can't go on. Don't tell me that. Like, because I've watched you, and so I think that's like great as parents too, to when they're just like, it's and you remember XYZ, you made it, and that was you. That was all you, and so I really try to empower kids to put that back in them. They're like, because I came here, I'm like, no, no, no, no. You live with you. You might have a portable Stacey in your head, which is like she probably touched a lot.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Um, you should get royalties for that.

Stacy Schaeffer:

She do lists, yeah. Um, and so I'm like, you know, it's really important that you like develop like a neural pathway of understanding like your own resilience.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Like, you know, like the the the data's clear. Yeah. I mean, we spend so much time talking about mastering educational concepts, right? Mastering math and mastering science and mastering the English language. Um, but we don't spend enough time talking about how we are um helping our kids master emotion regulation and master conflict resolution and master those things that make them more resilient to stressful situations.

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Stacy Schaeffer:

Oh, yeah, it's another soapbox. Apparently, I have a lot of soapboxes, but it's another soapbox that like we're teaching kids to, you know, God bless educators, like love me some educators, but like the curriculum that they're taught to teach on some things, I'm like, what is it? Like, can we talk to them about how to manage a friend breakup? Like, can we do that? And schools do have, you know, social emotional. Um, but in my opinion, I feel like I don't know, the Pythagorean theorem. Like, can if we're can we talk about that in college if that's a thing we want to do?

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, and I think the disconnect is um that having um a social emotional curriculum is not the same thing as having embedded guidance in real world social emotional issues.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yes, snapping, yes. Like exactly, like I feel like that there's just so many gaps um in there. Sometimes I'll say to kids, like, do you know this concept? Do you know this thing? And they're like, no, because I never want to repeat something there, you know, because you know, keep seeing teenagers with their eyeballs roll in the back of their head, like to prevent that as much as possible. And so um, but like, yeah, like some some concepts of like I just keep thinking of ways to manage conflict. Um, like that that's challenging, they don't know what to do. Like one kid told me there's six fights at school, like today. I'm like, what? I mean, that's never gonna go away because kids, but I just I wish that those kids maybe had more tools.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Absolutely. And I also wonder, um, well, first of all, I I think that we have a problem as a society of not um responding to differences in opinion in a healthy way. Right? We saw that two weeks ago um with Charlie Kirk. Um, but I think um we have to model that at home, right? Like we see all this conflict in schools, we see all this conflict in culture and in society. And if we're not modeling at our dinner table, you know, what it looks like to have a conversation about something that we might not agree with our kids about or that our kids might not agree with us about, but being willing to share uh why we think what we think and why we believe what we believe in a loving, respectful way, I would think that would begin to translate to those conversations outside of the home. But we have to be brave at home.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Oh, yeah, I mean, definitely for sure. I know I was raised in a home where uh the silent treatment was used as a weapon. Um, and so like I I find myself sometimes like like wanting to shut down, but like having enough tools to not. And so, yeah, and like you, we all know, every single one of your listeners knows that kids are watching and they're bringing attention. And so when they say things like, yeah, my mom got into this fight with someone on Facebook, like about Charlie Kirk, you know, like that's that sending some kind of message that that's a way to handle it. And that's just probably not the best. So I'm like, um, I'm like, are the grown-ups around you all fighting? And they're like, all of them at the I can't even have a conversation. And so that's hard. That's really hard for a kid because they're they're observing that and they're like, well, maybe I don't want to bring anything up because I don't want to be part of that.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Right. Right. But you're also basically endorsing that way to handle different resolution when that is how you behave as a parent.

Stacy Schaeffer:

For sure. Absolutely, for sure. And so it's like, there's there's a better way. You're like, and maybe the adults will learn a better way one day. You think? No, maybe. I mean, the kids of today, when they become adults, have rules. So, I mean, that's good.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. All right, I want to talk about the word gaslighting because I hear it again and again and again. He's gaslighting me, he gaslighted me. It's all gaslighting. Uh, I think that that term, which has validity, uh, has uh gone viral in a way that again it's being equated with he disagrees with me or he's seeing it differently. For sure.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yeah, I've said to kids before, help me understand what you think that means. Um, they're like, oh, well, when doing the thing, you know? And so I'm like, well, here's like how I see that term. You know, I wonder if like that checks the boxes or if it's just possible that we just had some kind of disagreement and we don't want to use that term. I'm like, because I'll tell kids you don't want to take the power away from words when in fact that actually happens. You know, it's a little boy that cried wolf. Yeah. So it's really important that we're using terms correctly. Um, I'm like, you can think and feel whatever you want. I'm just letting you know that if that were to happen in a different way in the future, it might be confusing how to label it.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So for our listeners, uh clarify for parents what gaslighting really.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yeah. They're just like, yeah, like you know, so and so, whatever. They're like, okay, unpack that a little bit more for me. And then I don't know, I don't know. And so I think in response to that, I'd be like, well, here's kind of how I see it, like a an example from your own life, um, example from media, whatever, um, that you're like, this is how I find that term to apply. So I'm not putting you on the spot asking you to prove it. I'm just saying I want you to have as much information as possible so you can make an informed decision about how you feel about the people in your life.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, because true gaslighting is intentional, right? It's it's this intentional power play where someone makes you think or feel like your experience of something didn't happen. Correct.

Stacy Schaeffer:

I mean, you know, and I think I think it's important that we mention you cannot like people. You're probably not. I was a when I was an adult is when I learned that like not everybody is supposed to like you. Like I thought that it was my job to win everyone over. Um, and so I think that it's important to say to kids, like, I mean, it's important to be kind to everyone, right? We know that, but like you're there's there'll be people in your journey that you won't like, but it doesn't mean we should diagnose them. They're allowed to, and you're allowed to.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Right. And and there is this a lot, there is a lot of this uh unprofessional uh diagnostic happening, stuff happening, right? Like where he's a narcissist or he's gaslighting me, or you know, he has DID and right, like, or I right. And so um I think that no, you go.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Oh, it just made me think one of my um friends' kids, I've I'm basically like an aunt to um this kids. I've known them their entire life. Um, and they're like late teens, and said to me once, yeah, like I I have D I D. And I'm like, okay, tell me, tell me more about that. Um and they were like, well, because I saw on TikTok, someone said that if you lose track of time, like you look at the clock and it like you can't account for time, like that's how you know. And I'm like, okay. And I'm like, and I feel like that's a little dangerous. Um, you know, because then you're you're labeling yourself, you're putting yourself in some kind of category, and you might make decisions that are in your best interest based on that diagnosis from think talk.

Dr. Amy Moore:

And tell our listeners what DID is.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Oh, um, DID stands for dissociative identity disorder. Um, used to be called multiple personality disorder, but DID is like it authentic DID is very rare. Um, and it is from extreme trauma where a person's brain has to split um into like kind of different people to hold all of that trauma. Um, and currently it's getting thrown around when kids sometimes, in some scenarios, maybe don't want to take accountability for a behavior. They're like, it was, it was, it was Fred, Fred, I don't know. Um, and so the the genuine diagnosis is pretty rare, but I do believe in internal family systems that we're all made of a bunch of parts, but that all works together because we just kind of show up in different ways, but we're fully in charge of ourselves at all times.

Dr. Amy Moore:

And you can dissociate during a difficult situation without actually having risk of an identity disorder.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yes, yeah, yeah. That like and and disociation is um it is a a tool that your brain gives you um when the circumstances are too traumatic, you know, and so but I mean there's nothing wrong with it, but like it's the identity disorder where that's like everything you are, that's usually not accurate.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. And so let's say um your parent and your child is claiming uh that they have a DID diagnosis because they got grounded for three weeks and this was traumatic for them. Um, what language do you recommend that parents use to kind of um soften that idea?

Stacy Schaeffer:

Right. I like I would launch back to the internal family systems theory, which is the theory that there is a self. Um, and we have like, you know, different like parts of us that show up, you know, like the a really like angry self, um, but you're you're still you at all times. So if a kid were like, that was actually Fred, you're like, well, you're in charge of Fred. So like that, sorry to let you know, the onus is back on you. Um, and I'm and I'm sorry that this part made choices that you don't agree with. And so hopefully you can communicate with that part so it doesn't happen again, but you are still in fact responsible.

Dr. Amy Moore:

I love that advice. Because then you're not you're not invalidating the claim, you're just lowering the temperature on the claim and encouraging your child to still take responsibility for their yeah, you're just like the accountability is still on you because and like you know, to further that conversation to be like if if Fred commits a crime, guess who's going to juvenile court?

Stacy Schaeffer:

That would still be you. Um and so the the responsibility is something that we can't defer.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. True. Stacey, we are out of time and go because you have a client. Would you come back and have a conversation? Okay.

Stacy Schaeffer:

You'd say that.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Okay, good. Because I think we could talk for hours. And so um okay, so I would love it uh if we could just continue talking. I think this, I think uh, you know, teen mental health, especially is such an important, um, easily misunderstood issue for parents. Um, and so I I just loved all of the amazing advice that you gave today and clarification of terminology uh that our our teens are being exposed to. And so we just have so much more that we could talk about.

Stacy Schaeffer:

So I'm excited. We'll bring you back for another episode. Yeah, as the clock was ticking, because I do keep track of time as self. Um, I was like, oh, I hope that there's gonna be another conversation. So prepare for it.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Absolutely. Um, Stacy, how can our listeners find more from you in the meantime?

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yeah, so I have a website that my publishing company made for me um called authorstacy.com. So it's Stacy with no E, Schaefer with a C and two F's, because my name is has a million ways to misspell it. And so hopefully it'll be in something you have. But yeah, um there's information about my book and there's a contact me uh form like that you can just like type in there. So it's a free to contact me.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Okay, we'll put all of that in the show notes. Uh so that listeners with a link to uh get your book on Amazon and all of that good stuff.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Yay, okay so much for having me.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Thank you so much for being with us today. This has been a great conversation.

Stacy Schaeffer:

Fantastic. So I'll see you soon. Yes, you will. Okay. Bye. Bye.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Listeners, thanks so much for being with us today. If you liked our show, come find us on social media at the Brainy Moms. You can find us online at theBrainy Moms.com. We would love it if you would leave us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. Um, and you can find more about our sponsor at learningrx.com. So, look, we hope that you feel a little smarter after spending this hour with us. And we're going to catch you next time.

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Dr. Amy Moore

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