Dr. Fried and Dr. Dastrup | UWF Sport Management Program | When I hire, I want someone who's going to be better than me

In this episode of Waves of Impact, host Dr. Ali Green sits down with two of UWF's own, Dr. Gil Fried and Dr. Ryan Dastrup, both Professors in the Lewis Bear Jr. College of Business, for a wide-ranging conversation about the role human resources plays across every corner of the sport and hospitality industry. Recorded live with students from the HR in Hospitality course (HFT3221, Spring 2026), the episode is as much a classroom moment as it is an industry conversation.

Dr. Fried, a sport law specialist and expert witness in more than 200 cases, opens the discussion with the hard truth that most organizations learn too late: the breakdown almost always starts before the guest arrives. From negligent hiring and background checks to the legal concept of respondeat superior, the idea that employers are responsible for the actions of their employees on the job, he draws a direct line between HR process and guest safety. He also challenges conventional thinking about workplace communication, arguing that most HR communication is ignored precisely because there is too much of it, and that what organizations actually need is less noise and more signal.

Dr. Dastrup brings the perspective of sport business, sharing a firsthand example of a sponsorship activation that nearly derailed because HR was left out of the planning process entirely. A missing signature turned a straightforward video shoot into an organizational headache. His point is clear: HR is not a department you loop in at the end. It is the glue.

Together, they field questions from students on morale, communication, what employers actually look for in interns and new hires, and how to think about your first job not as a destination but as a direction. Dr. Fried closes with a challenge to students: stop thinking about the interview as something being done to you, and start thinking about whether the organization is worth your talent.

The episode ends with two surprises, one classically trained pianist and one co-author of a comic strip. You will have to listen to find out which is which.

This episode is part of the HR in Hospitality series, produced by students in Dr. Green's course at UWF, exploring the gap between the internal customer (employees) and the external customer (guests).

Guest Bios:

Dr. Gil Fried is a tenured Full Professor at the University of West Florida's Lewis Bear Jr. College of Business, specializing in sport law, facility management, and risk. He received his master's in sport management and his law degree from The Ohio State University. He has authored more than 19 books used in over 140 universities worldwide and has served as an expert witness in more than 200 cases involving crowd safety, venue management, and facility liability. He is Editor-in-Chief of Sports Facilities and the Law and Co-Editor of Legal Issues in Sports Betting.

Dr. Ryan Dastrup is an Assistant Professor in the Lewis Bear Jr. College of Business at the University of West Florida, where his research focuses on sport sponsorship, spectator engagement, and the gap between academic scholarship and industry practice. He is the co-author of the Shaking Up Sports column with Ricard Jensen and has published peer-reviewed research on mega-event programming and fan behavior. He brings both research rigor and real-world sport business experience to his teaching at UWF.

Transcript

Waves of Impact | Dr. Fried and Dr. Dastrup

00:00:00 Ali Green: Welcome To Waves of Impact podcast. Um, I'm very honored to be sitting between, well, I should say between two amazing professors and students in H of T three, two, two, one in the spring of twenty twenty six. And so what we're going to do today, we are doing a series of, um, how HR impacts absolutely every portion of the sport industry, the hospitality industry, it's actually everywhere. And so, um, what you don't think and it's funny, I'm looking to, um, I hope we do, are able to capture this for YouTube is I'm looking behind here are all the students and I look and say, gosh, the first day when they come into the room and I say everything is about HR and everyone's like, no, it's not really. And so when we talk about events, huge events. And Ryan, I know that you're all about the HR side of things. Um, let's talk a little bit about your perception from the sport side of what do you see out there? And we're going to start knowing we have about eighteen minutes to talk about that. Students will be able to ask some questions and, uh, so let's go. So let's kick us off a little bit because I am interested many, many, many of the students will find themselves either in internships, real life in, um, a stadium. When we were talking about events, how do we see HR? Where have you seen it? Can you give us some examples? Tell me a little bit. I would like to know because you are the expert. Um, you really are. Is it nineteen books? How many books have you written? More than enough. More than enough. Yeah. On it. And you really are the expert. And so I would like to dive just a little bit of what have you seen as that expert to HR? The good, the bad and the ugly? Okay. I mean, it's one of these things where oftentimes we don't think about what are the dynamics that we have to deal with. But you're dealing with people and people tend to be broken, you know, or will break, which means that there's going to be issues in terms of communication, in terms of ability to do a job, ability to understand what they're doing, ability to actually execute even if they've been properly trained. So throughout this continuum that we see in the employment process, you're going to have elements where something can break down. And when that happens, that's when you know what hits the fan. And so that often is where we have issues such as if you're an intern, what are you doing on the internship site? And are you, in fact doing what you need to do? What if you open up the wrong attachment and it creates a virus in the workplace? Are you responsible for that? Are you liable for that? Is the employer responsible for what you have done? And so there's a concept called responding superior. It's a legal term. I'm a lawyer. I like to throw legal terms out there. And it basically means if you are the supervisor, you're responsible for the conduct of those under your supervision while they're doing their job and doing parts of their job. So there's a concept called frolic and detour. If you're not doing your job, they're not going to be responsible for it. But if you are an intern, if you are an employee and you're doing your job and someone gets hurt, they could sue you as the worker or intern and the employer saying the employer is responsible for your conduct. So employers are very cautious about this because they're concerned that if you mess up, they're going to be responsible. So they're very concerned from the very beginning. And that's one of the reasons why they vet so carefully, because if you bring somebody on board who can't do the job and you assign them the job, that's negligent hiring. And so from the very beginning, they're cautious because they don't want to take on a potential liability concern. And so that is directly linked. So let me take this a little bit further. As a college student, you go out, you go. Okay, I'm going to go get an internship or whatever it is, paid on pay, whatever it is. And you kind of don't think about that. And then you have to fill out paperwork. Um, but that all goes back to HR process of making sure that you're covered as the entity. If something goes on, especially in stadiums where many of the stadiums drink in and all of that. Right? With guests or customers. Yeah. I mean, that's that's a huge thing. So, Ryan, what are you thinking of that from what you've seen? Because you've been out there, what, how do you think the bridge goes that people actually don't think about HR? Yeah, I think, um, you know, doctor, I mentioned a lot of great things. It's about the people. And when we go through the process of in sports, it's about being able to, uh, help the organization make money. At the end of the day, we hire the right people who have the specific skill sets to help out in those specific departments. So whether that's ticketing, sponsorship, marketing, operations, really HR is there to help with kind of oversee a little bit of everything from the hiring to making sure that they are doing their responsibilities, um, to, uh, you know, at the end of the day, making sure that they're actually happy as well, that they are good stewards, that they are making sure that these companies are kind of on the right track. is that is our responsible employer. So HR is a vital part of, I think every business in particular sports and hospitality, we're going to see it across really every business function. So part of this is what we're learning is that although HR to me is a department, it also is every supervisor's job. So I would like an example of what you have seen out there where you may not think. And again, we're looking at students launching out and you may not think that HR is so important and human resources or understanding about that handbook or understanding about the laws. We're learning about what laws are today because they're, you know, ebb and flowing. It feels like, um, so examples that you've seen. Yeah. Um, supervisors or something. Yeah. For sure. Um, you mentioned the laws. I think it's really important. Um, in particular around stadiums. So stadiums are typically on public land. Um, and there's things that we have to abide by as well. And one case in particular, um, we had a sponsor, it was a major sponsor and they wanted to actually come and record a video that we're going to show on the, on the PA screen during games. And, um, this was in the sponsorship department and they thought they had all their areas covered. They had the video person, they had, um, the stadium, they had kind of the overall event. The missing piece was HR because HR needed to actually they needed to sign legal documentations. And HR at the time was, was a group responsible. And it actually came back to really hurt the department and the employee because, uh, they thought they had all their everything kind of checkbox. Um, and they did not. And so that missing piece was HR where they were kind of really the glue that helped support everything in that, in that particular instance. But there's numerous examples where I think HR, we don't always think of HR where they probably should be involved. Right? Right. And a lot of so on the HR real side of like Sherman, whatever, it's all strategic and it's all about, um, partners. You'll hear it all the time about, um, how you have partners out there. But, but Gil, tell me about maybe like what you've seen at the supervisor where you don't think about what you're doing, but it's really important that you understand what's going on. Uh, I'm called Doctor Doom and gloom for a reason. People don't want to meet me. They don't want to talk to me because I talk about bad stuff. And so I get to see it, unfortunately, on the back side of things. When I say the backside, when there have been the failures. So I've had cases where you hire an employee, you don't do an effective background check. And in one case, it was somebody that was supposed to be doing security at an MLS game, and they got into a confrontation and they got upset and they punched a patron in the face. You know, that's the kind of stuff where that's normally not what you want to have your employees do on the first day of the job. But the question was, did they screen the person appropriately? Did they do the background check appropriately? Did they train the person appropriately? Did they make sure the right person was in the right position at the right time? And a lot of this goes not just to the HR in terms of the hiring process, but working with management, because all employees should be properly supervised by managers where they know what's going on. They know that the manager is going to be there to interact with them to monitor what they're doing, encourage them to grow as a professional and to do the job appropriately. If you're doing that as a manager, you're in fact working as an agent of human resources to make sure things can be done effectively. If there is that disconnect, you might have HR doing everything they need to do, but if management fails, then the employee is going to fail. And so it's not just HR. You have to look at everything around HR to make sure it can be executed in an effective manner. And we have that through so many different areas in stadiums, arenas and things like that. Just you mentioned alcohol, alcohol sales. Well, are they tips or team certified? Are they following all the policies and procedures? Uh, you know, do they know that there's going to be secret shoppers, which are coordinated through human resources to test whether or not people are actually doing their job effectively? Those are the kind of things where you might not see the tentacles of HR. Oftentimes people think of HR only as Toby from the office. Who's there to mess up things? No, it's all over the place, and that's where you have to be as someone that's in management, is to think that HR is there to help you do your job more effectively. By having the right people, with the right skills and the correct resources to be able to do their job. And I agree. Alright, so we have how much more time do we think? Um, okay, um, we have some students here that probably have some questions for our experts. Can you stump us? Would you? Yeah. Would you like to ask a question? Would you like to. There's some questions in the back. We need little question helper. But do you have a question you would like to ask of our experts? My major is communication. So I'm interested in the connection between HR and communication. Okay. So because because the mics I realise are only on the two of you. So probably won't even hear me. Um I haven't um is communications within organisations and HR how, how what are your thoughts on that. Go whoever. You can start and then I'll, I'll finish up with the bang here. So I think really I probably one of the most important things in the business world is communication, right? We have to be able to communicate with your with your team, with your department, with superiors. Communication is vital. And how I envision HR is kind of being this know, all right, the central hub where they are the ones who can get out information typically. It's hopefully it's kind of the good information that employees need to know. But often times it can be bad as well. So, uh, you know, HR is sending out, uh, maybe weekly or monthly kind of newsletters. Maybe they're going to highlight certain things that the company is doing or strategic initiatives. Uh, maybe they're celebrating birthdays, right? HR and communications is, uh, is really an important part because they are the ones who are really helping disseminate information that the other employees need to know about. So I think as it relates to communications and HR, um, it's really important that everyone is kind of on the same page. And then HR can really get that information out effectively. And, you know, I've been to because I always forget what I'm going to say. So let me just interject something that as you were saying, that one of our case studies is for the blue Wahoos and they hire a lot of well, not hire, um, I don't know what they're called, but volunteers. Right. So I was thinking about that. There's a lot of volunteers when we're talking about stadiums. And I mean, even we had that experience with Pensacon about community. So how does communication get out to the volunteers who are not exactly employees, but they are representatives, you know? Anyhow, I just had that thought that was not what you were going to say. So go ahead. But I could build up on that because. Because volunteers, you're liable for them just as you are for, uh, an intern or an employee. And for the intern, it doesn't matter if you get paid or not. You're responsible for their actions. What I might say is possibly controversial, and I'm all for controversy, so I'll say it. Oh, right. Better you than me. Most communication in HR is worthless and a waste of people's time. Yeah, and the reason being is that, uh. Oh, I don't mean to shock you there. Uh, how many of you get emails from HR and actually open them and read them. Almost no one in fact reads them. How many get an employee manual that's this thick or maybe that thick? However big and they actually don't read it. And the reason being is that we're inundated. We have so much communication coming to us at a given moment that we can't process everything. So HR needs to be, if they're effective, a good gatekeeper of saying, I'm only going to share critical information. Not that I don't care if my colleague is having a birthday, but I don't need HR telling me that. I need them to tell me, what do I need to do today in order to do my job effectively, rather than to get thirty emails that I'm just going to go delete, delete, delete, delete and not actually read. And so that becomes part of the process of how can HR be more efficient? And if it's not efficient, it's wasting people's time. And that's why one of the first elements within any organization that gets cut is HR, because a lot of people feel like, well, what value does it have? They see the value in terms of the benefits. If it's costing them money in terms of additional benefits, you might hire more HR people to try reducing costs. You might have, you know, the SAPs and all the different things that you might have for being able to provide services to employees. But if you're looking at day to day operations, oftentimes it's left in the dust because it doesn't drive profit for a lot of organizations. So they see it as a waste from upper management, and that's why they often cut it. But if it's done effectively, it could be your godsend. Because if you can get people motivated, passionate, interested, uh, you know, living internally, the organization, they're going to be much better employees. But that's not through too much communication. It's the right communication. So maybe strategic communication within the organization is the answer to that. Yeah. Good question. Great question. Wyatt, you had a minute to think. What do you think? Uh, morale in the workplace directly affects employee productivity. To what extent can HR affect it positively and negatively? Do you think? I'll start with this? If anyone has ever done a long homestand in baseball, as an example, where you've worked three games in a row and you're at the ballpark twenty something hours. If you don't have a good relationship with your colleagues, that's going to be hell. And so that becomes part of the morale thing is creating a culture where people actually want to work with each other. That can't be manufactured. There's some concept called a workplace spouse, which is someone that you're so close to because you're around them so much that you might spend more time with them than their spouse. And so one of the HR tricks is when you're giving someone an award, is to give it to them and their workplace spouse because they can enjoy it together versus having something where it's like, hey, you get to go on vacation, but the other person can't. That's going to cause, uh, some kind of dysfunction between that relationship. The best is to enhance that relationship by honoring both of them, because you work as a team in any kind of sport environment. And I'm not saying that as a quote unquote team, a baseball team or stuff, but everyone in the sales department, everyone, uh, you know, possibly working with the marketing, maybe it's, uh, event operations, maybe it's house and grounds, whatever it might be, you work together and you get very, very close to those people. That's the big thing with the morale is allowing them to bond and to bond authentically. Then you're going to succeed. I agree with that. I mean, I don't know if I can say much more than what you said, but I think it's really the morale. Like making sure that you know that things are getting done and accomplished the right way. Uh, and making sure that your staff, your employees are happy. Um, I think that goes a long way, especially in sports, right? Long hours, long days. Uh, without that, uh, that good, more like awareness. Um, it's going to, it could potentially hurt the organization. That's similar to hospitality. Alright. Anybody out there? Ryan. How many minutes do we have? Okay. Anybody out here have specific questions? Go ahead. Blake. Uh, real quick, you guys emphasize again how important it is, who you hire, um, for, for, I guess, what do you look for in future employees about or, or even internships about their, their, um, qualities or their resume? Why don't you start and then I could clean up on this one. All right. So. you are very lucky that you're in school right now because this is the time for you to learn. Uh, in particular, I'm hoping that you're learning kind of what drives you, what motivates you, and you're able to learn specific, tangible skill sets, right? You have to be able to bring some type of value to the organization that you are going to, whether that, that can be a lot of different things, right? Sometimes we're looking for maybe analytical skills. Sometimes it's just someone who's extremely organized. But these things that you are trying to learn, you have to be able to show how high your skill set can actually help that organization, whatever that is. Um, and so I think for, you know, as you're trying to go out and get internships and then potentially look for jobs, like you have to become a subject matter expert in something, whether that whatever is kind of your driver, your motivation, you have to become the expert and be able to show that you can bring value to that organization or it's going to be a long road for the company and yourself. So I think what really helps is having something that you can kind of call your own and having a very strong, just tangible skill set that works for you and be passionate about whatever that could be. Because this is a big world and we're all different, right? So, all right, what do you think? Leave it to the lawyer. Um, so yeah, uh, it it's important to have the soft skills, the communication skills, writing skills, uh, patience, empathy, all those kind of things. But if I were to talk to a prospective, uh, student who's looking to get a job, I'd say instead of you thinking you're there for a job interview, think of it like you're trying to interview them because you're trying to set up the right environment, because you're trying to create an environment where you have someone who's going to be your champion and advocate. The poor bosses and poor leaders. Hire people that are not going to outshine them. They don't want to look bad, so they want someone who can toe the line, do the job, but don't outshine me. When I hire, I want to hire someone that's going to be better than me. That will hopefully kick my you know what into gear and force me to go to a higher level. That's what I look at when I'm trying to find somebody, is someone who's going to say, look at, I can make you better. And if they can make me better, they're going to make the organization better. And those are the people I want versus those that are just going to be, hey, I'll just do the minimum to get through. I want those people that are excited and motivated and, you know, willing to have this as their career and ability to grow themselves as a person. That's who I want. And so that's what I look for in HR. Departments are constantly striving to figure out who has quote unquote, leadership potential. And you want an organization that can see that in you and will foster that in you and give you the skills and ability and the resources to accomplish that. And I'm going to add to that just a little bit of career. So when I look at all the students that are launching out, whatever, if you're however old you are or if you're forty, if you're twenty five, is this there has to be some sort of alignment. There has to be some sort of where you think that it's going to lead to another place. But I almost guarantee none of us get here. Again, I say that I'm sixty. Never. I never thought in a million years when I was waiting tables that I would be here. One leads to the next, leads to the next. Could I have done a redo on some of them? Absolutely. But, um. But I'm in agreement. When you say career to me, it's out of the gate. You bring yourself. you bring what you're passionate about, what that's going to lead to. So if that's leadership, great. If not, that's okay too. But look at the organization as you said, that's important. Okay, one last word. Give me a little information on something that nobody would ever know about you within the context of being okay to say it. Go ahead. Ryan. I don't want to. I don't want to know anything. Alright. Tell me. Um, just one thing. Uh, I play I'm a classically trained piano player. I played for about twenty two, twenty three years now. I love that. I think I have a baby grand in my house. Awesome. I don't play. Wow. Um. Uh, you know, so many people know about all the sports and stuff I do, so I'll do something different. Um, for a number of years, I helped write the Gil Thorpe comic strip that you see in the daily newspaper. For about three years. I was one of the co-authors of it with Jerry Jenkins, who's a New York Times best selling author. We did the Left Behind series, and so I threw in there like an Orthodox Jewish character. I threw in lawsuits, I threw in all these different storylines, and I actually use it in my sport law class copies of comic strips. Awesome. This guy, I swear, I don't know what he has. He's always got something. Thank you, both of you, for waves of impact. You have impact, all of us and we look forward to sharing this out in our community. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Thank you. Pleasure. Thank you. Great job guys.