The Dark Tower

Spouse of the Pod Henry joins us this week to spoil the entire Dark Tower book series, because they sound a lot more interesting than this disaster of a movie adaptation! (But seriously there are copious MAJOR plot spoilers throughout this episode so skip if you have any interest in preserving the mystery of Stephen King's magnum opus series for yourself)

YouTube Videos per Hank's Suggestion

Understanding "The Dark Tower" Universe (in seven minutes!)

The Dark Tower: The Franchise That Never Was

Special Shout out to Hank's Letterboxd account as well, worth the follow:

https://letterboxd.com/hankastank/

SWAMP stuff:
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Dara's Letterboxd

Emily's Letterboxd

Our website: https://www.the-swamp-podcast.com/
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Transcript

The SWAMP (00:00.14)
I do not pod with my mouth. He who pods with his mouth has forgotten the face of his father. I pod with my soul. And welcome to the swamp. Our podcast, that is an acronym. So it's just some wack ass movie podcasting. And we're here with my husband, Hank. Hello. Thanks for being on the pod, Hank. We have to call in a special expert testimony.

because we can't do Stephen King month without talking about what is critically probably like regarded as the worst Stephen King adaptation to film, which is like really saying something. Cause I think there are some really big stinkers out there. Oh yeah. Like Stephen King has been adapted so many times and this like, this stands out as the pinnacle of the worst. Like this is just like, it's a, it's bad as a movie on its own and it's a bad adaptation.

And it's a disservice to the source material, which is quite beloved. And I didn't know anything about this series at all. didn't know that it existed. didn't know really that Stephen King was so interconnected. think I knew like, know, Carrie's powers are kind of like shining, which is kind of like that book Firestarters. Like I knew, you know, Stephen King has major themes. That makes sense for someone who's written so many fucking books. But I didn't really quite understand that there was like

an epic saga, like a magnum opus that really tied it all together until you started reading them and you were telling me all about it. And I was like, this sounds actually wild. Why isn't there a whole movie series? And you're like, but there is. And it's supposedly terrible. yes, and it is. But so if you can, explain a little bit about

like what the books are, because this movie is not a representation of even like the first book. It's like a weird amalgamation. They tried to do all of them at once. There was a big production, like pushback, you know, like if the project kept changing hands of who owned the rights and stuff. And basically it kept getting like cut down and down until they were like, it was originally gonna be three movies and two TV seasons.

The SWAMP (02:23.662)
in between each movies and it was like this huge plan and then it just kept getting like chopped and chopped until they were like, we gotta do the whole thing in a 90 minute movie. by the way, longest 95 minutes of my fucking life. Oh my God. I had to pause several times to get up and I was like, oh my God, there's still that much left? Yeah, no, that was what I found most shocking is that sitting down, it was yeah, an hour and 38 minutes tops. Especially for

how freaky it started getting, how fast. Anyways, give me the rundown, Hank, because I need a lot of backstory. And that I can provide. So I will say my experience with these books is I listened to them on audiobook a year and a half ago at work. I was able to pay a lot of attention to these audiobooks because I was doing a pretty monotonous job at the time. So I don't want to, you know...

that I'm more literate than I actually am, you know? don't necessarily know how to read and write. was read to me, you know? Of of course. I want to that caveat. As a man, I just want to clear up. I don't know how to read. I cannot claim that kind of like I read a book, you know? but audiobooks are valid though. Audiobooks are so valid. I got the story, So... They're a great medium. The Dark Tower books, I mean, so they're... I mean, where to begin, right? So...

Well, how many are there? we got seven in total. Seven plus a novella between books four and five. There's like a short story that was released in 2012. like this is so for books that came out in 1997 and then 2003, Stephen King went back much farther. Like, you know, after so the series wrapped up in 2004. In 2012, he went back and wrote

an interlude story. Sure. So that's that's where that eighth book comes from. I find this interesting that he cranked out seven books out outside of his coked out phase. Well, it interspersed in his coked out phase. So what was the time? When did it start? So the original Dark Tower stories were published in magazines starting in 1978. He was like releasing chapters at a time in magazines.

The SWAMP (04:42.254)
So starting in 1978 and then in 1982, all of those chapters were collected into the Gunslinger. And that's the first book of the Dark Tower series. That's the one that like it famously starts with the line, the man in black fled across the desert. I didn't write the line down, but it's a very iconic line. The second book comes out five years later in 1987, The Drawing of the Three.

So I think it's important now to kind of draw attention to the story of the movie. like, wait, I'm going to recap it in a minute for everyone. Nobody, nobody listening has has watched this movie. It was like, what a weird time it would tanked at the box office. I think it's culturally remembered by no one other than dark tower fans who fucking hate it. And like the reason I'm shocked that it was twenty seventeen. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It feels like a two thousand nine.

right? Like it feels like that color grading, whoever color graded this movie deserves to be put down. There's a lot about this movie you can tell is very like Frankenstein's monster, you know, it none of it fits. Yeah, there was a like $6 million in reshoots after the movie was totally. Yeah, I guess I watched a really great YouTube video. This guy really breaks it down.

Eisenhart productions. I got to shout him out on YouTube. Link will be in the description below. But basically, adaptation is basically like trying to do like the whole Harry Potter series in one movie, right? Like that's like the closest equivalent I can think of, right? That's also like seven books. And trying to squeeze that all into one story. Like it's just,

is like there's the aesthetics of the the dark tower story is there. Like there are some like they reference it. But it's never really like, actually gone through and pulled through like even Roland's initial, like urge to go and find the dark tower. He's like that's not his, his quest isn't to protect the dark tower in the book, it's to find and kill the crimson king in the dark tower. So like even like his his initial quest isn't the same as in

The SWAMP (07:00.738)
the book. it's character motivations here were really confusing. It was like he wants to kill Matthew McConaughey, but if Matthew McConaughey destroys the tower, it like unleashes evil on the world. But what is that? What does that realistically mean? Why does he want to do that? We don't really ever learn other than just that he's a evil sorcerer. Like I felt like there were a lot of things that I could tell. I'm like, I bet if I knew more about that, it would be really cool.

but it just, we simply did not have the time. It was like the world building was so yada yada'd. It's like, and there's a giant tank out in the desert that he just stumbles across. And like, was there a war here? I don't know, probably. We gotta keep going. We gotta meet Idris Elba. Yeah, nothing is explained and everything almost, cause it starts out with a dream sequence. So for the rest of the movie, there's a ton of other dream sequences intercut. And then the rest of the movie, also you're like, wait, what's real?

what's going because nothing's explained. Yeah, yeah. So I can I can give a full timeline here for the rest of this movie. And I think that that can inform the rest of our discussion here. Yes. It's a mess, right? And it's like, Hank, and it's so depressing. It's just like it's a decade of of of capitalist nonsense. All right. So check this out. Two thousand and seven. J.J. Abrams, Carlton Q's and Damon Lindelof lost.

Yeah, the lost team Stephen King was comfortable was was comfortable with giving them the rights to make this movie because Stephen King liked Lost. In 2007, the lost team and they fumbled it and they fumbled the bag 2008 the following year. They confirmed that an adaptation was in early development. But JJ Abrams was working on Star Trek and Lindelof was still working on Lost. And in 2009,

Lindelof was stated as saying that he just got out of like a long term thing with Lost and he didn't really want to get back into a new relationship with Dark Tower. my god, he's had commitment issues. And what the fuck did he do after that? Right. Well, he was quoted as saying, well, probably if he got what he wanted, nothing, right? But I don't know what David Lindelof is up to. But he was also saying that he's such a big fan of the Dark Tower series that he didn't want to be the one to do the adaptation.

The SWAMP (09:25.25)
because it's too much pressure. knew it wasn't gonna be good. He was scared to do it. Yeah. And I think it's because he saw that you would have to have an insane amount of star power and Hollywood pull to carry this idea through all the Muck and Meyer, all of the various producers tearing this thing apart, all the studio budget interference. We'll see that become a problem later on. And so what was the vision at this point? Was it a full series or was it just like,

one movie, what were they pitching? So Dara alluded to this earlier. In 2010, this is when all this all those details are revealed. Universal is the one that's going to be to produce it. It's going to come out as a trilogy of films with two seasons of TV to bridge the gaps between movies one and two and then two and three. Okay. Which to me, that sounds perfect. Like, yeah, I think that there is

There's like lot of flashback stuff that would do really well in a season of TV. And the rest of the mainline books are tight narratives that would do really, really well in movies. I think that would be a really smart way to do it. But I also think that it's like, you could do just a feature length film for every book and it would be awesome. But I'm also- about a season of TV for each book, you think? that work too?

Yeah, potentially. You could do it as a long-form series. I do like the idea though, because one of the books, I think it's like book five or six, Wolves of the Kala, is like a total flashback book. It's exclusively in Roland's past. It's about a childhood story of his. It would be cool because it's such a pacing shift in the books to see that transformed as we go from a movie to a TV series. That I think would be cool.

I would be remiss, sorry to cut you off, but I would be remiss to not use this segue as you were talking about TV related movie releases and lots of flashbacks. Last night we went and saw the Demon Slayer movie, which I have not ever seen the anime, but you have watched and you were like, dude, this is gonna be epic. It's gonna be the end of the series. Like it's like gonna be the movie.

The SWAMP (11:47.092)
and this really awesome show that I like. And I was like, hell yeah, that sounds great. And then like we're in the movie theater and then it did take like probably two hours into the movie that we were like, this is not gonna be like, there's no way they're getting to the big guy they have to fight. Like it was basically just like four or five episodes of the TV show just cut together that they released in theaters. So it was like.

We were really building up to something and I guess it, you know, it did its job in marketing, but it kind of made me want to watch the show. But I thought we were going to get some sort of epic smack down for the crown and that just simply was not the case. We got a bunch of flashbacks about why people had to learn the bug style breathing to fight the demons to avenge their father. so like I really should have seen that coming. Like the, you know, I,

I've watched the entire series and have somehow missed the fact that this is a thing that Demon Slayer does, that they release movies that are just episodes of the TV show. I just assumed, based on what happened the last time in the show, that the movie that comes out after that shit happens is gonna be like... Which was probably... That doesn't sound crazy of you. I felt like I was making some reasonable assumptions, but I was, you know...

the rug was pulled out from underneath me as I was making assumptions. I do love that you bring that up because like probably opposite pacing, right? Every action that happens in Demon Slayer, every time they swing a sword, they flash back and they're like, my God, like, you know all the other styles of thunder breathing, but.

But I just know the first four. And this has to do because we're cousins and grandpa always loved you best. Like, yeah, right. And what in this movie is like and Roland takes out his gun and shoots really cool and then puts it back and we just got to move on. We keep going and there's demons and we're moving and there's there's the other universe outside our universe and we gotta go. We just gotta go. We have no time. And so I do watching Demon Slayer had me thinking because in the books, everything

The SWAMP (13:52.078)
that they do is described in painstaking detail, almost like it's like a John Steinbeck book where like they're just like he's spending just like, you know, pages and pages describing how dehydrated Roland is. A lot of the challenges that they feel that the group faces in the book is how are we going to survive in the wilderness? We're running out of ammunition. It's like it's like logistical problems that they have a lot of the time. Like they have this quest, but it's all just like trying to like problem solve, not dying in the woods or on a beach.

which is the all of book two takes place on a beach with with things called lobstrosities. This is what they took away from you. This is like this is the capitalist machine away your lobstrosities on the screen. I need more about the lobstrosity is a lobstrosity. Correct. they think take Stephen King. He's like, main so main pill. He's like, what if lobsters were scary fucking book? Roland loses like a

couple of his fingers and he's bad at shooting with one of his, like his main hand for the rest of the book. Or for the rest of series. fucking book two, dude, from a lobstrosity. This is what they took away from you! Damn! Okay, yeah, so That is rather disappointing. intro in TV seasons, but then obviously what budget cuts and then- So, yes. So they got, they got really rat fucked. So trilogy of films with two seasons in between, directed by Ron freaking Howard, written by Akiva Goldsman.

We're talking a couple of legendary, they would have slammed it out of the park. We're talking Javier Bardem as Roland. Woo! That would hit. That would hit. Javier Bardem as Roland? He's that serious? a huge walk-on, or they were just eyeballing him for it? They were eyeballing him for it. This is still like, you know, we're still in early development, but you know, were eyeing him. Aaron Paul was gonna play another junkie character. Oh my God, of course. This is another detail. In book two, we get two other characters aside from Jake Chambers that are like,

part of the gunslinging crew, Eddie Dean and this woman who has like several personalities, she ends up being Susanna Dean. Eddie is like a heroin addict from the 1980s, from 1980s New York. And it was 2017 so they were like, Paul playing that guy from 19, oh dude, a mob connected heroin addict from 1980s New York. Aaron Paul's your guy. That would have been so much fun.

The SWAMP (16:12.054)
That would have been so much fun. They took that away from you. so be mad. Budget cuts caused some drastic rewrites at this time. And basically it's universal isn't making it because they keep pitching it. And in order to do this, can imagine three planning out for three movies and two seasons television this early on. So expensive, right? The numbers are easy. This is like a 10 year project to do.

have been such a fire investment for them because I feel like at this time we're getting like the the Hunger Games have just passed every week right as a series like everyone's still really high on YA dystopian shit. Yeah you're snapping for something new. And with your aging audience right you take all of these middle schoolers who are really into YA dystopian shit and then when they're in high school you make a

fucking trilogy movie series that would have hit. I guess they didn't think so. The market said no. Well, here's my question though is like how YA adjacent is it Hank? Because that's very much the lens that they give us through this movie through, mean, oh my God. character has to be 11 because the audience is fucking stupid. Exactly. everything to a kid.

whose mental health is being called into question, but actually he is correct. There is a portal under the city to the land. So if your parents are asking you to get help, you probably should run away is what this movie is advocating for. So I think there's like a, there's a certain edgy quality to this, like that it has YA style elements.

Like it almost it almost feeds me steampunk. Like for some reason, I don't know. I don't know what it is. I can't quite place my finger. It was giving steam. Okay, there's a it's a good read because in one of the books, there's a steampunk style robot like from the keys like a survivor of the apocalypse or whatever.

The SWAMP (18:21.07)
That's also a huge storyline that just gets glossed over. Like there are robot people working for the man in black. Right. Who like kidnaps children. It's like a whole thing. Sucks out their shine. Yeah. To blast the tower with. So I think like a good example, as YA as the dark tower gets is Roland's son. So Roland has a child. Of course. circumstances of this child's birth is that Roland

is seduced by a succubus at a shrine in the woods. As well as he passes his seed. My man into the sun. So no, it gets so terrible. Disgusting. That's I didn't write this.

They both tortured the messenger. David King like pinpointing what years, the highs and lows of this series. You're like, how was he doing? He on peyote for this one, dude. He was tripping. So, all right. So he's nuttin' in demons. Well, he nuts in a demon. That same demon swaps its sexual reproductive organs. As one does. To be a woman.

Or no, no, to go from a woman, from woman to man. to man. Man to man. So it goes, the demon goes from woman to man with Roland's seed up in there. So the bot, maybe? This demon fucks the, I said fucks like a middle school, I said fucks. was like,

The SWAMP (20:11.989)
So the demon folks, the the other member of Roland's gunslinging, it's called a car. It's like, so the demon then passes Roland seed into this person that he's Susanna into Susanna, right? The wheelchair bound civil rights activist from New York from like the 50s. Yeah. OK. You.

One time we went on a long hike and we ran out of stuff to talk about and I was like, can you tell me about those books? And you were telling me, and I really, like, cannot believe the dis- I can see why they cut this character because she's a black woman with dissociative identity disorder. So she switches between personalities and her alternate personality is racist against black people. And like, that's her whole, but then the two personalities like,

come together and converge at some point, right? She gets cured of her mental illness. But she has no legs and she's in front of a bus doing civil rights activism. This is where I was like, this is not real. I was like, there's no way these books are fucking real. Shit's crazy.

Yeah, no one can see my face right now because this is a podcast, but my mouth has been agape for the last five minutes. I'm not even fun talking about the demon shit too. We haven't even scratched the surface. Okay, so she's pregnant with the demons. Wait, we're talking about the seed. The seed has not made its last stop just yet. my god, okay. So it's Susanna, W-U-T.

Right? Double amputee Susanna. She also is a gun flinger. She's great. She is gets then the developing fetus inside of her. Because she has like the egg now for this child, but it's like been influenced by demons. Then gets faxed. Okay, it gets faxed into another sacrificial lamb type lady that works for the man in black. Okay, the resulting offspring is a spider.

The SWAMP (22:14.958)
Roland has a spider baby. Yeah, sent over the Bluetooth to the men in black. Right. Okay, sure. I'm gonna roll with it. Okay, in the books, spoiler alert, that's how the man in black dies is Roland's fucked up spider baby comes out of the womb. And then senses that Walter wants to manipulate him and he immediately just well, no, I think the spider has the shine the spider can like

Dude, he has the same like, he has his magics. Magics. Magics plural. Matthew McConaughey and his magics. His orb chamber when he opens the closet to all his many orbs and he takes out black 13. That's that's that's from the books that he has. He has has hella orbs in the books. Yeah. I wish we got more orbs honestly. That no I feel I'm feeling some payoff because I hated the way he died in the movie.

is so stupid. ridiculous. He just makes a dude perfect trick shot and fucking double bullets him and gets him like we that was not earned. Dude, the first bullet that he fires is the one that's ricocheted. Right? So he fires. Stay with me here. He fires the first bullet that travels in a straight line. Second bullet that he fires is the one that shot diagonally and bounces off.

The one that he's shooting later on is traveling for longer, right? He should have reversed the order of the shots. Is what I'm saying making sense? Yeah, I think I'm getting what you're saying. the first bullet. So it's like if he just shot in the wrong direction, Matthew McConaughey would have probably just used his magics. His magics. you know, had a good Except Roland is a little bit impervious to the magics. He's less affected. OK. Yeah, no explanation.

in the line when Matthew McConaughey is like, he's always been immune to my magics. So I basically killed everyone he loves. Like, dude, what are we doing here? Guys? You're like, that was an entire book. That's a rough draft line. You're like, that's yeah. Yeah. The writing in this was awful. You could tell 900 people had their pens in the pot. OK, wait, so wrap up this. I'm sorry.

The SWAMP (24:33.23)
Drop off this timeline for me, will you please? We're happy to do it. can you? Really? Last we left off, we were in 2010. Universal had the rights, but there were budget concerns. And so the movie just kind of fell into, you know, it's already been in development for years. now it's in like, who's even doing this thing? So this team of Ron Howard and Akiva Goldman, they're going around trying to get somebody to make their movie.

It gets picked up by Sony in a collaboration with Media Rights Capital. Can you think of a more evil name than Media Rights Capital? That's a square on the Monopoly board. pay tax when you roll a double snake eyes or something, you know? When Media Rights Capital gets your movie, you're fucked. You're fucked, yeah.

That's like, it's a company that's like, it's all right there on the tin. What we're gonna do to you is we're telling you right up front, MRST is the more common name. So after they were picked up by Sony, Akiva Goldman writes a new script. Ron Howard is moved to a producing role and the current director. He's like, this is gonna suck. I don't have time for this. Correct, right? So, Ron Howard's. men, women. Ron Howard. Ron Howard.

Nicolaj Arcel, who ends up directing the movie is not... Nicolai? Nicolai? I'm sorry. Probably, if it ends in a J. It does, it does. you know who that is? The guy who directed this movie, actually? He's the guy who wrote, the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo movie. the... The Fincher one? Or the Swedish one? Yeah, he... Yes, he like made that movie. So that's all he had done, really. He like...

Okay. I knew him from when I was invested. I was like, what the fuck is this Nikolai director? And then not much going on. Well, so it's at this point too that. So they got some one with no experience to make the movie. Exactly. I don't know him so he's a nobody. Exactly. So there's.

The SWAMP (26:51.182)
I mentioned that new script that was written by Akiva Goldsman after the 2015 acquisition. After they bring on the new director, another version of the script that is now almost totally different from the original.

Cause now they're like, it's gotta be one movie. Can you just condense the three movies into one movie? We're cutting the TV shows. Don't even worry about, don't do any flashbacks actually. Please end at 90 minutes to media. What is it? Evil media conglomerate says it's gotta be under a hundred. Media rights capital. Media rights capital. Looked at three movies and two TV shows and said, you can do one 90 minute movie. Fuck you and eat my ass. And you get $60 million. Fuck you.

So that's at that point. That's just what they had to pay Idris Elba. The rest were volunteers. McConaughey and Idris Elba. Those are like, oh, in 2017, those guys are awesome. were wasted. They would have been the braces of this film. How the fuck did Matthew McConaughey get on board with this? I feel like, I mean, obviously he does not have a fantastic track record of movies, but he's a pretty decent actor. And this does not seem in his...

you know, like something that would be on his plate. Honestly, if I was him and my agent was like, hey, you can be the main villain in this mid-budget Stephen King movie, but you can really ham it up. You can chew it up. No one's going to give you any notes. Go method, do what you want with the script, honestly. Improv on set, know, whatever. I bet that's the scenario. Honestly, probably him and people the cell, but we're like,

treated like a gods on that set and everyone else. Like, yeah, you can do whatever the fuck you want. That kind of sounds like a nice paycheck for me if I'm Matthew McConaughey. yeah. So I think like he's a great casting choice for, you know, Walter slash Randall or whatever. Randall, do they ever call him Randall? That's he's that's his government. So Randall flag is like the same. That's another

The SWAMP (28:54.53)
We can get into that, he's also in the stand and the eye of dragon. And the man in black is the evil malevolent figure. It's like when you learn that the hat man's name is Walter, that shit was so funny. The evil man in black stands in the desert. He's like, Roland the gunslinger says, hey, what's up, Walter? It just kills my boner.

The SWAMP (29:23.581)
Did you refer to the man in black as the hat man? So now we finally get like a final cut of the movie. The shoots wrapped up at the end of 2016. The original cut of this movie was really poorly received.

Yeah, right. I mentioned those six million dollar reshoots. The post-production on this was a nightmare, according to everybody. Basically, the way it was described is that media rights capital again, right? Like I'm shaking in my boots and my feet are sweating just thinking about these guys. So they're given like a bunch of unilateral power. Basically, they get like almost total control over like the script. They have like a bunch of veto power.

Stephen King is now involved at this point and he also has a bunch of veto power. He's coming to mop up his mess. You know, trying his darndest, you know. They're like, hey man, this is going to be embarrassing. Do you want to just come in at the end and just tell us what's really going to make it sting less? Imagine if you have two enormous companies who can't play nicely for whatever reason.

both trying to fuck your movie. And that's like that that's the state of the dark tower here in 2016. And then it comes out, you know, after like four delays, it comes out in August of 2017. They came out to a worldwide budget of 113 million. It costs 60. Yeah. So they lost money. They definitely lost money on this for sure. Right.

So that's the story of Damn, if they had just given the Lost Boys the money up front, if they had just greenlit those Lost up front, and we could have gotten three seasons of an HBO drama-style TV series and well-done movies. Aw, damn. They took the laud-strosities from us. They did. I think J.J. Abrams is quick.

The SWAMP (31:30.862)
I think J.J. Abrams is a flake and a coward. I think he would never commit to a fucking Dark Tower series. He doesn't have, J.J. Abrams, I'm calling you out. You don't have the balls, pal, to do a Dark Tower series. Wait, you know who does though? You know who said he was gonna do one is Mike Flanagan. Flanagan, yes. Well, he's on his Stephen King rip. do you not like Mike Flanagan? What? I haven't Babe, what's the matter? I'm like Flanagan.

have mixed feelings because I liked Hill House. I like his network TV work. He's doing a Carrie right now. Yes. Once again, she's not fat. So I'm kind of pissed about that. And like, what's the point of doing it again? If OK, never mind. But then I went and saw this movie that he made recently called The Life of Chuck.

that's apparently also based off of a Stephen King yes, I can't believe you actually watched that. Tell me. Genuinely, considered walking out of the theater. I don't remember watching the movies, because I'm like, it was so bad. Wait, can you give me the rundown? What was it? I literally can't even. I couldn't possibly. It's like there's a man named Chuck, and he's like,

running for mayor and everyone sees his face around town. They're like, that's just Chuck. We know him. Ha ha ha. And then the whole world starts collapsing. All this crazy stuff is happening. And then we zoom out and we learn that this entire universe just exists within this man named Chuck. And we have to learn his life story. And as he like grows through life, the world inside of him changes. It was such fucking pedantic bullshit. was awful. Oh my God.

awful. I remember seeing I got a ton of promo for it a couple of months ago and I remember it very vividly. And I was so confused about what it was. Yes, I do know that I do know that maybe doing next month. But yeah, so he's yeah, he's dipped his toes into the Stephen King waters with quite mixed results in my opinion. I don't know.

The SWAMP (33:43.98)
I just, do, do. There's no real evidence that this is happening as far as I could find. Yeah, we'll see. It's like a, it's like a long shot, like it production sort of thing. Yeah. I don't know. His Netflix stuff is so good that I mean, it makes me really hopeful for any Stephen King stuff that he's going to be adapting, but that is really unsettling about the life of Chuck. have to admit.

Maybe they just like needed a movie to tank on purpose for tax reasons and he was like, someone in favor or something. Yeah, every now and then you see one of those pop up. The kid from Room, what's his name? Jacob Tremblay. Young actor Jacob Tremblay was in it. course. It was just, it was not a good film. I have been shooting with my what?

and I have not forgotten the face of my mother. That's for sure. And she is here to host, Chocolate or Vanilla, her interim podcast segment where she says two things. We all just say which one we like better. I'm gonna say the order of speaking because there are four people. Jen lost the question. I'm Dara. I'll answer first. Then Emily, then Henry, then Jen. Jen, A, how are you? B, is there a theme this week?

I am good. So tonight will be not be chocolate or vanilla. It will be chocolate, vanilla or strawberry. All of them are threes. my God. I'm honored. Yeah. And and I think you'll be continue to be honored because it's a food versus a song versus a video game. boy. Yes. my God. Yes. inspired me. Wow. My boy, Henry. Good Lord. Thank you. Thank you, Jen. Wow. But it's going to be always a food.

versus a song versus a video game. Because yes. Wow. Okay. All right. We're crossing different planes and mediums. Exactly. How shall I compare, you know, a spaghetti to a Baldur's Gate? Like I don't, I'm going to have to really think on a higher level. This is going to be a really elevated chocolate or vanilla. This is going to be pretty intellectual, pretty heady. This is going to be mental Rubik's Cube. All right. Chocolate, vanilla or strawberry? Chocolate.

The SWAMP (36:02.026)
vanilla strawberry yeah I think I'm gonna go strawberry also why not damn okay strawberry hey we call him strawberry Hank classic alright first one thick cut bacon in the mood by Glenn Miller or Eldon's ring

Okay. It is not plural. It's just from the mouth and ring. But I feel like this is obvious to me and it's thick cut bacon.

don't know, In the Mood by Glenn Miller, it's really throwing me off here. I think I'm gonna have to, I can get by with a low quality bacon. So I think I'm gonna axe that. I've never played Elden Ring. I think- You get that pre-cooked microwave shit, you sicko, I bet.

Bacon? No, you said you can do a sh- bacon? Like that level of shitty? Not that level of shitty. I have some self-respect, but you know the ones that are just full of water and it cooks off and it's just teeny-tiny? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, know, the one by the thick cut, because they don't pump it full of water. I can deal with it. I can deal with it. But I think in the moods was very formative to me, so I'm going to have to do my due diligence and salute her today.

Okay, yeah, that one is an easy one on drums. gotta say, you know, for the early days. Yeah, is. Yeah. You're just gonna write it. So, like, think, so first of all, thank you for allowing me to be a part of this transcend chocolate or vanilla, right? Like, we're breaking new ground. But also, like, so I think we have to find a common metric. That's gonna be my strategy going forward on this. I think what I'm gonna try to say here is in terms of

The SWAMP (38:01.578)
Initial buy-in versus how much time I'm spending enjoying this thing right in the mood probably lasts for like two and a half minutes to three minutes Thick-cut bacon and you probably you know, you just get that for free with your Apple music subscription or your Spotify You know, so you don't even have to buy anything thick-cut bacon. I got to go to the store Which is not a bad thing bacon doesn't take that long to cook and then I'm eating it for like, you know again

three minutes max. are you limiting in the mood to the one play Henry? That's what I'm saying. How much time has that song occupied in your whole life? Probably a lot. A lot. Less than Elden Ring though, that's for fucking sure. So that's what I'm going to say next, right? So $60 will get you, you know, 400 plus hours of entertainment. That's the deal you can't pass up. think Elden Ring, that's the money move. I think Elden Ring is the clear winner here.

I use promo code swamp for your free... Elton's Ring. Kickstart your business. The new spin-off of Elton Ring, where there are more. You're going to have to tip the scales on this one. Well, Henry, using your logic, you're going to pick all the video games because they are time-wise more intensive to you than the other ones. Well, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah.

I will pick in the mood because I listened to it. Yeah, I was like, yeah, this this checks. That's a eater. Right. Right from the right from the jump to right. Yeah. yeah. They don't hold back. Yeah. OK. Next one is beef shawarma versus Steely Dan Hey 19 versus Baldur's Gate.

Ooh, okay, I'm going to hang crude, bang for my buck. I've been loving Baldur's Gate. I do rock with a beef shawarma though. This is a tough one, but. This is cracking me up. Oh my God. I was gonna say, wait, Dara, are you locking in Baldur's?

The SWAMP (40:12.878)
Yeah, I've been walking in as Henry said 400 plus hours of entertainment for only $60 use promo code swamp No, there's no promo code I fucking wish I think I'm gonna have to a lock in Steely damn. Yeah Okay, so hey 19 specifically to you know,

Cool song, like questionable lyrics, know, don't read too much into that. I also got to pick Baldi's Gate 3. That's a hell of a game, game of the year. Good Lord. All right, I'm going to go with Hey19. Next one is Teriyaki Wings versus Earth, Wind and Fire September versus Super Smash Bros.

Earth, Wind and Fire is putting up a tough fight, but I am gonna pick Super Smash Bros. A teriyaki wing's not what I want on a wing. If I'm one wing in a sticky sauce, teriyaki's ranking low for me. Yeah, I'm pretty anti most wings that are other than Buffalo. Teriyaki, I agree, sits very low on my totem pole. What was this?

September by Earth, & Fire unfortunately has just passed that threshold where it's just all a meme to me. And I feel like I'm not fully able to enjoy the song the way that it was intended. but I can still enjoy Super Smash Bros. the way God intended that. So I'm going to pick Smash Bros. The way God Nintendo'd intend to not Nintendo into Super Smash. Yeah. I think I'll round it out. Also say Super Smash Bros. Like just a...

Yeah, foundational game for me, for sure. All right. I think we're going to sweep because we spent many hours super smash growing at our house. Yeah, unfortunately, it was on the Wii, though, which like wasn't a ton of transferable skills once you, you know, we all kind of plateaued out with the switch now, but I didn't grow up using a controller with two things.

The SWAMP (42:22.242)
grew up waving my arm around. I still play Mario Kart like a little bitch with motion control on. It's so embarrassing. If you're gonna be moving the remote, you know the switch, you can just turn the motion controls on. can go Wii mode like a little bitch. I'm nice about it, I'm No, you are nice about it. But I feel it's embarrassing. Everyone else has thumb dexterity and I have to use my elbows. I elbows.

Okay, next one is Chicken Parm versus Stevie Wonder, the whole album songs in the key of life. I love that you give them the whole album. Or Mario Kart.

Chicken Parm. I feel like this is the first time that the food, it's like which one would I give up? Like it's like never Chicken Parm again or never Mario Kart again. I'd probably ditch Mario Kart. Wow. See that's, I don't know. I think there's a lot of to bread and fry meat that stack up a lot better than Chicken Parm. I'm gonna go Mario Kart.

So Jen, like I feel very seen by these lists, by the way. Like you really, you've got my number. I gotta say, like, I think Songs in the Key of Life has been in my like Apple Music end of year wrap up, like every year for the past like five years or so. It's like, I always am listening to it all the time. Like it's just, it never gets old for me. Yeah, it's such a go-to for me. Like, and again, I think.

With your logic, Dara, like I could lose Chicken Parm and Mario Kart and still be happy because I've got that album. That's like a I love that album. So I want to pick the album, too, because Henry turned me on to the album and it is killer. It's really good. Top to bottom. Yeah. Next one. Tiramisu versus Ariem I am Superman versus GTA. OK.

The SWAMP (44:29.962)
Tiramisu for me, but I do as like a video game bystander. I do love to watch somebody playing GTA. It's just like watching the most hilarious cop chase show. Like the music is always so fire and you're like, I'm stealing a helicopter. Like I couldn't get into playing it. I don't like feeling chased like that, but I do like to watch other people play GTA, but I'm going to rock with Tiramisu. This is this is really tough.

I'm split on the tiramisu and the GTA. can lose the REM part of this discussion. In front of your mother you're saying that? We're going to talk afterwards on recording. I'm going put us in the big room.

I think I'll go GTA. I feel like that was very formative for me. I didn't play a lot of video games growing up and like, I didn't really, I never played Minecraft because it felt very overwhelming in the space you could create. But you weren't overwhelmed by GTA? no, no, because it felt like controlled chaos almost. I loved it. Yeah, I'll go GTA.

GTA was always like a like a forbidden game. And my parents were like, that's like it's too it's too like violent. Because there are strippers. Yeah. You can murder a stripper. I think GTA is the winner on this list for me. I'm a big GTA fan. Well, I think you're all wrong. And I am I am Superman. And I can do anything. Yeah, you can. Next one is Guinness beef stew versus

Jack Johnson, Banana Pancakes versus Helldivers. Helldivers is also one that I like to spectate. I like to watch Henry play that one. It's like well designed. like the colors. I don't really... Jack Johnson, sure. That song maybe is a little cringe. Maybe I'm going more for like the Curious George soundtrack kind of vibes. And then what was the food was also disappointing me.

The SWAMP (46:42.978)
Guinness beef stew. A Guinness beef... There's just a beef stew and we're using Guinness to what, like braise the meat in some way? That is correct. That sounds kinda nice right now. I'll pick that. what, okay, can someone tell me what the premise of Helldivers is? Cause I've never heard of this. Have you ever seen Starship Troopers? Do you know that movie? No, that's one that I feel like we've, we had on your list for a long time that we still haven't covered.

So like, it's basically like, it's like a whole like space fascism thing. Like it's like a big exaggerated universe where like, what if the American Imperial project was like extended out to like space battles and stuff? You know, like it's all like a, it's a deeply like satirical thing. I don't know, but it's all about like these future space soldiers that dropped down from space and they like kill bugs and robots and squids all in the name of like,

making, protecting earth democracy, but you know, like the, the subject is that it's fascism. Sure. Okay. Okay. I'll go Jack Johnson then. It's really, it's really nice to talk about pretty colors. Yeah. I think I've just had it. I've had my fair, my dose of American fascism lately.

It's a I could really I could really switch gears into Jack Johnson right now. So I'm gonna go banana pancake I would 100 % get that like it's it's like it's too real. You know, I'm like, yeah, I'm like can't escape right now, you know, I'm not trying to like Like sometimes like I love VEEP but watching VEEP is really hard because every day I see headlines that I'm like, I can't I'm I'm not

This can't be real. I had the same trouble with succession, funnily enough, where I was just like, couldn't stand to see like those people anything, you know? Like I can understand that. That's probably a show I would have really liked, but I just couldn't like. You're like, I only have so much free time, you know? Yeah. I can't be feeling like, chaos. I can't be devoting like mental energy to that. Yeah, it's between like that and Severance and you really, it's. Yeah. I think I'm going to go Helldivers. Helldivers is awesome. It's really, really good.

The SWAMP (48:58.232)
Got say, I'll Nice. I'm going to go Guinness beef stew and shout out to my sister who doesn't like Guinness. Not a big meat and potatoes girl, but man, she likes a Guinness beef stew for some reason. Next one is chicken tikka masala or tequila by the champs or cyberpunk. This game is awesome.

Chicken Tikka Masala. Cyberpunk, also fun to watch. That one's cool. Keanu Reeves. Cyber Arm, Under My Sleeve. Exactly. But what was it the song? Tequila. Tequila. Yeah, I didn't mean to go without.

I'm gonna go to Tikka Masala as well. I feel like on any level either like the best Tikka Masala I've ever had down to like Trader Joe's like frozen Tikka Masala. I'm never dissatisfied. know, cyber funk really really good. I think it got it, you know, it had a bad release, but then they caught up with some updates. They're doing good now. But I think I also got to say chicken Tikka Masala, you know, like, what else am I going to eat? You know, come on.

This is the first time we're ever getting like gamer commentary on the swamp. you anyone in the audience cares at all? I really wonder. Who out there has been really craving this for the last 40 years? there might be some gamers. You bring me on. You're getting the inside scoop. No, I'm glad to have it. I'm going to go with tequila because...

Chicken tikka masala too spicy and it always has peas in it, right? Too spicy, Jen. Also, no. No, what are you talking about? Okay, both of those things are not true. They're not true. There's never peas in it. You are thinking of something else entirely, miss. be different dish. Well, I'm still gonna pick tequila. So that is it for things that I thought Henry would like.

The SWAMP (51:11.406)
And you were correct. Oh yeah, that was awesome, Jen. And we got hashtag Gamer Corner, which is going to be a new segment. to the Gamer Corner. Jen, I have not forgotten your face and I never will. we'll see you next week. long. I miss you guys. I haven't seen you in like two weeks. I know. We gotta hang. Miss you too, Jen. Yeah. Well, I love you guys and have an awesome night. Love you. Bye. Bye. Love you, Jen.

The SWAMP (51:43.47)
Speaking of bad films, yeah, this one was just, I don't even know, where do you start, where do you end? I mean, the whole thing was really horrible. So we were talking about our Demon Hunter double feature. I was like, you know, we came back from the movies. I think we started, we tried to start watching it at like 7.45, like eight o'clock. And you were so asleep. Yeah, I get up so early. Like, I'm just like, I'm asleep by nine o'clock, whether I like it or not.

in my half-baked, extremely sleepy state, I do have a couple of notes that I just want to repeat to you guys right now. please. As an overview of the 30 minutes of the movie that we got through. And then I finished it and then Henry watched it again today. Yes, course. you doubled down. Yeah, I'm really, those first 30 minutes were really locked in for Because that story kind of makes it sound like I don't have movie stamina and I just want, let the record be shown that.

I did watch two movies back to back yesterday. Dara does have movie stamina. She's a known stay up later. She's not sleepy at all. So the notes are as follows and there's seven of them here. Sending your schizo child away to bang lawn. my god. We can't say that.

Yeah, that is the case. He wanted to hit so bad. He was like, please just leave the apartment so can fuck your mom. Please. Goin' chess club. Just leave the house for an hour in the afternoon. Just go drive to library. don't fucking care. I need two days. You need to go away for two days to a camp where they scan your brain so I can fuck your mom. Lon is a bad guy. Lon.

When Matthew McConaughey tells him to stop breathing, I'm like, yeah, don't do that anymore. That's normal Yeah, no, I wasn't mad. I also was not, Matthew McConaughey-wise, I wasn't mad at his stop breathing bit. I did find that really Conti. When he walks by that child and says, hate, and then her eyes turn black. That shit was crazy. Conti is the word for that. It's popping. Another one here, New York Magic.

The SWAMP (54:00.878)
popping up on opposite side of train. Maybe some context for that. Jake just like teleports to the other side of the train tracks. runs down into a subway station to run away from the people who are chasing him. And then in the chase sequence, he runs up the other side of the stairs on the opposite side of the street, which that's not how trains work. You'd have to cross the track.

If you go down on one side of the street, that means the trains are going in one direction and then the other side of the street, the trains are going the opposite direction. yeah, in a snap, he just ran up the other side. The Magix, who was the Magix? They resolved that chase scene by going like, oh, it's New York over here. He's behind a Subrest hot dog cart. It's no problem, pal. He's local. That's my old hood.

from when he goes on Reddit. He goes on Reddit. That's my old hood. Shouts out. I wrote down Matthew is chewing. And I think I meant that Matthew, Matthew McConaughey is chewing the scenery because he was really he was too. He was being super country. Yeah. And time enough at last. so that right. I don't know if you guys are familiar with the Twilight Zone episode where the guy he like he's in like frozen time.

And like, like he finally has time enough to read all of his books, but then his glasses break. It's like, you're like, he's trapped. This is like when the child finally when when Jake finally gets abducted or he gets like taken away. He's like, finally out of the house. But then the bomb is too sad to bang. So true.

led the scene and she's too stressed because she has to apply for the missing person report. And Lonnie is like, I have been so hard for the past six days. Once you're feeling bad for Lon, hard for the past six days, come on. She got medical help. Yeah, truly. I want to get a of flashlight. Yeah, that would have solved all the problems of this movie. So.

The SWAMP (56:08.962)
jump in with additional information on this, but I, in a personal interest, as to imagine what realistically would a first book of the Dark Tower series, The Gunslinger, like if you were doing, just gotta do book one, that's movie one, TV series one, what have you, but it's just like, we're just doing book one, what would that look like? So I read the Wikipedia summary, and you've told me a fair amount about it.

And I was just I was quite shocked to learn that the Jake character is just like quite fleeting and not that integral to the whole story of the Dark Tower I will stop you there like he he he dies in the first book But he comes back in a major way like he's all like he's pretty much I think he's back in the second book like I spoilers for the dark tower he's like

It's like there's a parallel universe thing going on. damn. He dies Because he dies in the first book is what I'm saying. Because I didn't realize that he was going to come back in a major way. But he dies in the first book because he basically links up with Roland in the desert. He died on Earth. He got pushed in front of a subway, in front of a car, right? the street. he gets hit by a car and he dies on Earth, on pre-Stone Earth.

That bitch is dead. That's what allows him to come through into mid-world, into Roland's Right. That is just so much more to the point and interesting than the first half of this movie that we get where it's like, know, the parents are going to take him to the camp and he's having the dreams and are the dreams real? Yes, we're confirming the dreams are real. has to find the house. Have him just get hit by a car and he wakes up in the desert. And he's like, we get one flashback of him being like, Mom, you never believed me about my dreams about the man.

in the desert or something, you know what I mean? Like that could have been about the hot man. Like that really could have all been maybe the first four minutes of this film. Right. and then we get him and he can link up with Roland, which is what we really want to see is Idris Elba doing cool shit. Right. Like that whole thing could have just been taken care of if they had just done what happens in the book. But then also what apparently happens in the first book is that he.

The SWAMP (58:24.142)
dies at the end and Roland kind of like lets him die, right? Like Roland lets him fall to his death. Right, he has to choose between pursuing the man in black or saving Jake and he chooses pursuing the man in black. Damn, that's full as fuck. Yeah. Makes the gunslinger a much more intriguing and interesting character to me. Absolutely. would maybe, hmm, perhaps prompt me to see a second film, right? If you're starting your movie series, like now, each of the top is really deep and complex and what's gonna happen?

fucking next because... Yeah, I'm just not attached to like Jake as a main character, you know, because that's how I'm presented it, know, that it's a YA thing. Watching this as a 26 year old woman, I'm like, I don't care. And I understand they were probably trying to tack on to the YA assence that was like 2012 to 2017, I guess.

Yeah, they're on the tail end of it. They could have just rocked it. Exactly. Seventeen is pushing it even. So I forget at what I forget which book kind of aligns with which story event. But I think like the so that what you're describing there in book one, Jake dies and comes to mid world and then dies in mid world. Like that. So basically, imagine we skipped that. And that's that's where this this movie kind of starts from second Jake's POV. This movie picks up with

second Jake, who is having these visions in the books, it's his visions are lot more dramatic because he sees his own death. And he's like, he's a lot of his struggle is living with the there's a reality and then an unreality and like he's he's like, he has to. And it's the reason that there's the, you know, the dissociative identity, civil rights lady is because she's also living in multiple realities. That's like the

She has like a mental condition that causes this. Jake has like this spiritual, you know. Shining situation. Right, that causes him to see, you know, all possibilities and all things at once. And even when death is included in that. Yeah. it's like. And that would have been way too much to tackle. Right, can't do With what they're doing here. minutes. Yeah, you just can't. I want it. You need a TV show to just to, yeah.

The SWAMP (01:00:41.87)
Honestly, think, you know, the initial thing three movies, two TV shows, I'm now kind of thinking you could do five TV shows, you know, even on either end of the first and third movies. Because, one would be a flash, you know, however the flashbacks were. mean, I just this it just it really needs as much screen time as possible. He said these seven books are dense. Disney says that they need young male audiences right now.

They're saying that the Star Wars stuff isn't retaining, you know, it's all the millennials. need Gen Z, because that's where purchasing power is, is young men. And they're like, how do we get the attention of young men? And they were like looking for pitches. Bitch, you already, it was right there. Right there. Actually, you know what I had pitched? I just finished this book today and it left on a little cliffhanger that's going to make me read the rest of the series, which I think there are seven of actually. Yeah, what was it called?

Dungeon Crawler Curl, it's like a RPG, it's like the genre is called lit RPG, so it's like literature about like RPG systems, so like Dungeons and Dragons thing. It's like, you know, when humans get stat blocks basically.

But I feel like this would be the perfect thing for like a TV series for young men and it bases off of like D &D mechanics. So feel like you could ride that hype of people who, this is also probably more of a pitch for millennials though, actually, now that I'm saying it out loud. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know shit. What do Gen Z men want? Couldn't tell you. I'm at a board meeting at Disney.

Yeah, let us know if you figure it out. The Dark Tower. So also the thing that I think really neutered this is that it's PG-13 because there just seemed to be some things like specifically guns, right? Like, is there only so much we can do with guns that's in a PG-13 way? Like, I don't know the exact litigation on what, you know, the one fuck rule or what have you. But I feel like there's definitely a way to make a successful action adventure.

The SWAMP (01:02:42.766)
sci-fi movie that is PG-13. I just think this movie, maybe just because it's Stephen King, I don't know, or also just it's trying to also be scary, which I don't really think it's like there are few and far between successful PG-13 horror movies. are, you're meant to laugh at them because they're funny. Yeah. I think this one was also trying to be a couple, a few too many things. I think that

you know, the shining and some of the other Stephen King stuff that sort of gets into this shining element, I guess. Like it's very contained and you don't have like these other worlds and everything, which is also obviously why this one is so interesting because it is, you know, a gigantic picture that he's painting here, but it is. The genre is sci-fi.

Western adventure. Exactly, yes. Thank you. Thank you. Like it's, we're doing too many genres at Way too many, way too many. I think pick one and lean into it. It should have just been a Western with sci-fi elements. Exactly, because I was looking at, you texted me and was like, I want to know if you think that like, what was it like, there could be like successful PG-13 movies. And there's tons. I mean, I came up with a heap of movies in my list.

But it all very much it feels like it sits in one category almost. Yeah, it's like like it's all either like superhero movies. Yeah. You know, major like, you know, the born the born identity, you know, like those kinds of movies. Like it's that's the even the movies are technically PG 13. Right. And like the crazy the gun violence, you know, and again, it's just like it's so disappointing to be to be familiar with the books and to know like all of the

the various descriptions of the violence is so graphic. When Roland shoots somebody with a gun, you remember. with his heart. He shoots with his heart and he blows jaws off. And we hear about all of the teeth happen. Every detail is described. He makes their skull mist, dude. Yes, and it's brutal. There's hand gore, he loses fingers to lobstrosities. We're missing out. The PG-13 rating and all of the various...

The SWAMP (01:05:08.526)
you know, like script cuts and stuff like that, lost us to lobstrosities. They lost us to slow mutants that live in the mountain. I don't know why. Slow zombies? I mean, they're like, move at a pretty normal speed. Why are they slow? I don't know. They're like a radiated people. Sure. And they like eat other people. I don't know. But that's where Jake dies in the mountain. It's like the tension is that there's slow mutants around.

I don't know what's going on there. Sure. the 80s. don't know. Yeah. But yeah, so like the I can read off every I looked at the Wikipedia page, the every single reference in here. And it's like, so these books were written across, you know, 20, 22 years. Yeah. And so like they encompass like each new book brings in different elements.

from the most recent books that Stephen King had written. that also makes sense. That's the whole like meta world building. That's really interesting. The story of the dark tower is about like in the subtext a lot of the time is about like the the writing process and it's about how like it's about Stephen King's journey with writing. Stephen King is a character in the books. Like they go to Keystone Earth and Jake dies. Jake dies again.

And again, so you're not going to read the books. Fuck you. Hey, you're not going to read the books. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

people have accused this series, especially in the later, the latter half of being super self-indulgent and kind of tough to get through and super meta. And I definitely like, hear that criticism because it is super self-indulgent, know, putting yourself, putting your first and last name in as a,

The SWAMP (01:07:18.286)
like literally into your own story. But yeah. Kind of allowed to be self-indulgent. He's I do agree with you there. Exactly. That's what I'm That guy kind of I'm like, you guys are the ones reading it. He could just be doing this for himself and not give a single shit if it sells and it doesn't matter. Like our latter half of the series too. He's like, your own book six, you love my ass. Oh yeah. Dude, I'm body. Exactly. You're going to let me get away with it. Yeah. And you're going like it. I said, yes daddy. I said, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

But so here's here's every book that's referenced in there. We have it. It is a really cool reference in there. It's like this. It's another creature that's similar to Pennywise except he like feeds off of laughter instead of fear. It's awesome. He's like the book series in the book series. This is all from the books all the books here. Okay, it tends also isn't all Stephen King books are like on the back of a turtle. Yeah, the universe is a turtle behold the turtle of enormous girth on his back. holds the earth.

Yeah, he's so he's so cool. Yeah. So we have there's there's a guy from it. The stand I think it features like the super flu. If I'm not mistaken, the super flu is part of the apocalypse that destroys Nolan's world or Roland Nolan, Christopher Nolan, Roland's world, Salem's lot. There's what there's a pastor character father, father something or the father Callahan.

is a main character. He's one of the gunslingers at one point. And he's like the main character of Salem's Lot. We have Insomnia, Hearts in Atlantis, Black House, The Eyes of the Dragon, and The Shining and Cell. So it's just like, and there's also there's another really, really great YouTube video I do have to shout out because it... Link in the description below. Truly, if you want to see, it doesn't explain the story of the Dark Tower, it just explains...

every reference in the timeline. It's a seven minute video. It's I really recommend watching it because it's really artfully done. world building explaining. It's all it's doing is explaining the references and the timeline of the books that were written and the way that they connect to each other. That's cool. So it's Understanding the Dark Tower Universe by James Van Fleet. Okay. Super like it's

The SWAMP (01:09:32.142)
I can't recommend it enough. It's really worth seven minutes of your time because it's a really well like it's like an animated thing. He's doing he's doing a cool thing. If you're a Stephen King head and you want to know how all of these fringe books you probably haven't read or connected, click the link in the description below to learn more. I learned a lot in a short amount of time. I really it really was remarkable. Yeah. Wait. So speaking of this, mean, like watching the movie, of course, I was shocked to see how much of like The Shining came back through.

Do it how much more of that do you get in the book series and like how much more does it like enlighten the rest of sort of Stephen King's works like Carrie and like said the Shining or Dr. Sleep and all that. bitch. The Green Mile yes everything else. The them all perhaps. I never finished watching that one after the dry electrocution so.

Pussy. And that's fair. And that's fair. my God. Like the that is another. So all of those various references, the reason that they're significant in the books is that they are indicative of what's happening in Stephen King's career at that time. But trying to put it into 90 minutes, all we get is like, you know, at the beginning, there's like there's twins and their girl.

whatever the headband on so they like twins. Wait, you're saying they like added Easter eggs in the movie to be like, and this is also a Stephen King joint if you didn't know. All it is for the casual viewer who may not know we're gonna do some references. that's terrible. The entire vibe the entire vibe of this movie is like a kid who did not read the book, but looked at the spark notes and was like trying to prove that he read the book.

We know the gunslinger's oath. You know, we got that down. Pat, Roland's world has moved on. Like, anytime where you feel like the characters in the book are like quoting something, they're quoting like directly from When you're like, wait, why is this dialogue kind of good? And it's like, oh, because that was right from the book. Yeah, written by Mr. Man. Yeah, there's some poetry going on here. Like, what is this? Oh, he was cooking. This guy, you know.

The SWAMP (01:11:46.626)
This guy was doing peyote trying to recover from a car accident. You know, he wasn't he was he was on Mescaline. He wasn't he wasn't a rights capital. You know, it's he had he had a more of a vision. So obviously we don't get it in the movie, but like in the books, you went through all of them, right? Auto style. Yeah. Like, do do we ever get like anything like really substantial, like telling us like an explanation? Well, so this is so the this is something that's cool. So

So kind of yeah, we the ending is is definite. The whole story is based off of a Robert Browning poem. Let me see here. It's Roland cometh to the dark tower or whatever child child Roland to the dark tower came. It's epic poem. Yeah, child Roland is a quote from King Lear, the Shakespeare play. And that's another one like King Lear is quoted all that is like

is like a theme that is happening in the Dark Tower series. it's really very like King Arthur. Yeah, yeah. There's a character called Cordelia that's like his main love interest. You know, there's like, there's a lot of that stuff going on. But the that poem, the broad strokes of that poem follow the series story. Like the beats of the series is based off that poem. That's pretty cool. So in the poem, there's a guy

who is basically like, he goes down this path because this crippled man with a, he has a malicious eye is what they say is the quote from the poem. He sends him on a bad path to the dark tower. There's like implication in the poem that this main character Roland has like, he used to travel with a band of like knights who were also seeking the dark tower, but his obsession with the dark tower caused them to split off.

there's a character that one of the names of those people is Cuthbert, is another one of like, that's another named character in the book, Cuthbert. He's very important. I'm a dope name for a fat cat. there's a bird. goes through a wasteland, which I think book three is called Wastelands. You know, that there's there's parallels there. He goes through a mountain. And in book one, he also goes through a mountain. How long is this poem? It's like, like 30 stanzas or something like that.

The SWAMP (01:14:09.59)
It's pretty long. But the end of the poem, though, ends with Roland just arriving to the dark tower. And the final line of the poem is child Roland to the dark tower came. And then that's it. We don't see what we don't know why he was seeking it at all. He just arrives and that's it. Sure. So at the end of the books and shouts out, you made it this far. Fifty eight minutes in of me just yapping on about the fucking the books were better than the movie. Yeah, they were better.

Well, the movie's obviously not worth talking about. Yeah, exactly. The books are worth talking about. That's why I called him my expert witness today. You saw my sexual interest at the time. So the end of the story, this is, you know, this is after Stephen King is saved by one of the characters, right? At this point, we are totally self-referential supermeta. And we're out of the woods as far as addiction. Yeah, and we're yeah, we're 2004. We're healthy. So.

The Crimson King We got that five year chip. Exactly, and God bless him. So the Crimson King is killed. That's the hat man? No, so Walter, right, is the hat man. Yeah. He's killed by Roland's spider baby. the Crimson King is an even more evil guy? So before we even get there, I will say the Demon Slayer parallels are still happening because the spider baby like uses the power of the voice to like make Walter kill himself.

Nice. Yeah, it's giving dune. Spider baby transfusing through a fax machine is kind of giving dune. Yes, yes, it's super, super dune. When did dune come out? don't know. 80s? 80s. Yeah. So but at end of the book, the Crimson King is killed by a guy drawing his picture and then erasing it. so it is all about the drawing. Well, this guy has like this guy has the superpower that he can like, you know, he can manipulate reality. This is another guy we meet.

Very cool. He can erase stuff. He has the Death Note book and he just writes. Pretty much. Yeah, he writes Crimson Chin in his Death Note. And then Roland then ascends the Dark Tower and he sees that it's just basically his story played out. It's like all these like images and vignettes as he climbs up the tower of his entire life. And at this point Roland is like 400 years old, right? He's like, of course.

The SWAMP (01:16:29.422)
Yeah, right. Another detail we would just would never know from from watching that movie. But he's like, Viggo Mortensen and fucking war of the rings. He's like, I'm 80. But I'm hot. Yeah, he's long. Yeah. At this point in the story, Roland is described as being like a sickly old man, you know, like, Roland looks like like, like, they would never do that to eat your saliva. They're like, so 400 year old Roland goes up the tower and he sees his entire life like laid out before him like he sees like,

but picture frames with like vignettes of his life. And then when he gets up to the front, or when he gets up to the top of the tower, the more that he's remembering that he's done this before. And the end of the story is that- Memento. Is that he goes back up to the top of the tower and he's like, no! And then he's forced to go back into the desert, lose all of his memories and begin the story anew, chasing the man in black across the desert. So like, it's, it's, it's the, but-

What I think what I what I take from that is that it's about the writing process. And it's about how even after you complete your magnum opus, what Stephen King described as magnum opus. Yeah, you still got to get out there in that desert. You have to like, all of a sudden you are back. the hot man. All of a you are back in a place where you don't have a story and you got to find one. You're in the desert. You to chase the hat man. Jesus. Yeah.

And that's what we do every week, logging on and recording a swamp. I get my ass thrown out into the desert. I forget everything I ever knew. 30 days of temptation. Wow, that's crazy. That's way more intriguing than anything this movie had to offer. it wasn't even like so bad it's fun to watch. was just like kind of like sad.

and confusing and like, damn, I bet this was kind of cool at one point. Yeah. Plumber. Yeah. I also thought that kid actor they got was a real snooze. Nothing special. He was trying his best. I guess so. And he didn't have much to work with. He didn't have much to work with. Yeah, exactly, exactly. If it's anybody's fault, it's not the actors. I'll say like, know, Aegis Elbow was just kind of smoldering. No, they were making the most of what they were given. He was being paid to mug, it's fine.

The SWAMP (01:18:48.684)
Yeah, it's what he does best. But if we're having a dark tower party, probably it should be a book club party where you've all read the books and you're going to talk about the books because this movie is not really worth hosting your friends for. But let's just say you've all you're going to hate watch the movie together. What are you going to serve as your food and drink? I think you should have a seafood boil and I think you should dump out.

it all on your table, like on a tarp, and all of you should have your seafood boil while you watch this movie. Because that's the only way that's going to make this experience redeemable for anyone. Yeah. yeah. man. I don't have a I don't have a very good answer for this.

I don't know. think I'm just going to go ahead and I made some some brown butter cookies recently with the recipe that Dara sent me for a party and those were so so good that I could I think I could get through the movie if I had a plate of those in front of me. Did the tray? Did I what? Did you bang the tray? I did. I did.

Nice, That's most key part to making cookies is you got to slam the tray down on the rack to deflate the bubbles. I want a nice flat, like a wide cookie that is both crunchy at the same time. It's achieving ideal cookie texture. You got to bang the pan.

Yeah. That and yeah, I think the cookies and some lemonade personally, I'm a cookies and lemonade kind of girl. And like put on one of those little pinwheel hats because this movie's going to talk to me I'm fucking stupid. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Just yeah, I'm going to go baby mode with this. What about you, Hank? I would do a pull from the books. would do I would have water out of a water skin and then I would also have gunslinger burritos, which is just rabid.

The SWAMP (01:21:01.134)
It's like dried rabbit meat wrapped in a leaf. it's like, it's like, it's like, but dude, when they describe like the shits that they take, they like, yeah, they're they're squeezing out hard dehydrated shits on the road. Like, you know what mean? That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to live the book. Yeah, I'm trying to remain faithful in my adaptation. Get the real gunslinger experience. Unlike media rights capital, those fucks. Have you ever had rabbit?

Yeah, no, I think I have. Yeah, no, like at a fancy tapas restaurant, I think I've had. Or like in a ragu, I bet you have. A rabbit ragu. That's pretty popular. Like a fancy Italian restaurant. I think I've had rabbit before. It was I don't think it was super memorable. The times I've had it, I also was kind of like, I was not stricken by that. Yeah. Yeah. It's like very fine. Yeah, it's pretty good.

You know, it's like, yeah. wait, we forgot to play Fuck, Marry, Fuck, Marry, There's no one in this movie that I wanna- We dress Elba and the sad mom. I'm gonna- Yeah, that-

I'm gonna kill the sad mom. Yeah, exactly. How do you kill the sad mom? you do it to stop breathing? crying and stop breathing. I'm gonna marry the man in black. I'm gonna marry Matthew McConaughey because I'm gonna be like, maybe what are we doing taking down the tower? Why can't we just use our orbs for like some other stuff? You know, and then I'll fuck the gunslinger.

I don't want to marry Matthew McConaughey, that's the thing, but I also don't want to marry the gunslinger. true words have never been spoken, sister. And you can marry the mom. You can be the dad who's going to fuck, and you can be like, hey, your drawings are pretty cool. You should like, do graphic novels or something. Be supportive. don't want her either. Dang it. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll,

The SWAMP (01:22:59.192)
Can I marry the gunslinger for like tax purposes? And then I'm just gonna let him go off and do his he's so broke. What are you talking about? I don't know. No, he has that silver piece, dude. He's got like a bunch of like, he's got like Arthurian coins, dude. He's like, yeah. Yeah, no, unfortunately I don't feel like I can trust the man in black. So I can't go into a relationship with him.

What about when they pull off the side to the village and they're like, we have to see the mystic seer and they're like, it's the only Asian woman here. And then they take him over to her and she is like, we can speak in each other's minds. She was pretty hot. She was hot, like, guess I'm still. I'm going to go, I'm going to kill the mom. I'm going to fuck Matthew McConaughey. And then I guess I'll marry the gunslinger. Sure. Sure.

So I think I'm gonna fuck Matthew McConaughey to learn his magics. I'm gonna fuck his magic. His orbs. I'm gonna leave with with black 13. I'm leaving with that or I think I'm gonna be the dad that steps up for Jake Chambers. I think I'm gonna marry that poor lady. She's been through enough. know, she she she was married to a cop and she survived. that's also true. Dad was a cop. Yeah. Yeah. He had like a police uniform. No, was he a firefighter? Well, OK.

I rescind that statement if he was a firefighter, but I think he was a firefighter because he died in the fire, right? It wasn't that he was trying to save like, yeah, no. Yeah. Fire and darkness. No, yeah, I think you're right. Actually. Well, but anyways, well, the firefighters are fine. Let me let me make my statement. Yeah. Let me rescind regardless. I would be the dad that's firefighters don't kill five dogs a day or five dogs an hour or whatever. Whatever that.

crazy sickness. Just Google how many dogs get killed every day by police. It's it's more than you think. It's like it's like on an hourly basis. The statistic is like 13 or she's fucked. And then I would kill Roland to end his perpetual. Yeah, it's very kind of you. I do think that's the right answer. But I was like, that doesn't seem productive because evil will always prevail. No, the thing is with so I am kind of cheating because I'm learning his magic.

The SWAMP (01:25:14.868)
defeat him. I think my role here is I'm gonna I'm gonna fuck Walter O'Dimm. And then I'm gonna, like, learn his magics and then become right and then chase him across the desert. I'll kind like fill in that role. But I'll still be like there for the weekends for like Jake's mom and stuff. Yes. More of a stuff dad situation, but that's okay. Well, like I'm also gonna get it on the side with Jake's mom.

I'm doing what Lon could never do and I'm threading the needle and I'm having it all in New York City. And then I, to follow this movie up, I think the only way that I would find this to be redeemable is like this movie is just lubing me up for some fucking gun cotta, man. All I want is to see people do fucking bullshit with guns because they say, this is our main hero.

The Gunslinger. And you know how many times he does something cool with a gun in this movie? Like once. He loads the bullets like do do do do do when he does his little spinny trick into the chamber. That was pretty cool. Otherwise, the trick shot at the end, not even cool. He just had one like doing the two gun. Shoot, it was nothing special. was like your standard action movie fare. It was leaving me dry and wanting gun action. So I think you should watch Equilibrium. I love that. I love that pic. Yeah. What about what you guys think?

I think I'm gonna go Doctor Sleep, personally. I really, huh? I haven't seen it. Is it any good? I thought we watched it together at one point, but yeah, it is genuinely very good. You and McGregor, of course. They put Rebecca Ferguson in the most fucked up outfit and then make her scream in Jacob Tremblay's face. It's amazing.

But it is genuinely very good and it's sort of you know if we're on the topic of the shining Movie too, I I think I think so trembling he seems to have Mike Flanagan. He's got his favorites that is for sure I think I would go with the good the bad and the ugly because I think that's Western let's watch some real gunslinging. That's like it's also one of the

The SWAMP (01:27:33.102)
Clint Eastwood's character and that is the basis for Roland as well. it's a combination of the poem and that character. know, watch a real fucking movie, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Don't waste your time. And thank you for not wasting your time and listening to the podcast this week. We're happy to return. We're just going to plow through and continue Stephen King Month into...

October because we figured we had to skip this week because I was in the hospital because and then we had to not do release an episode and then it was like delayed or whatever. Anyways, no one cares. Thank you all for listening. Check out the YouTube videos and the we have to read them. We've got a 10. Is that what you're saying? Well, I do. Can I have like you can maybe even put this in like I don't know if you have a post credits, but like drop the the the swamp.

The some whack ass movie podcasting. I know, I know. If I could do a Mark Zuckerberg, Justin Timberlake style moment here at the end of the podcast. Sorry, hun. I went to school for this. She made good money. No one's saying I'm listening to Swamp. I'm listening to the Swamp. Think about the balls of that branding, though. That's bold Check out this podcast. It's called Swamp. I guess maybe. I don't know. I mean.

Maybe we'll do a full branding over all. Rebrand, yeah, we're gonna do the rebrand. finally get noticed. Go back and re-record all of your episodes where you say the swamp. Yeah, all we can do now is rebrand and post the Philip Seymour Hoffman edits. should just go back and we should just redo all the episodes. And now what I'm probably... Go back and... From the beginning. Remaster them? We're like Roland in the desert. I think we need to send it back.

to the beginning and try it and chase the hat man once again. Just word for word, same line to look, yeah. I'm gonna give this movie a two. What do you guys think? Yeah, I agree with you there. think two is very fair. Yeah, fuck this thing. It's like a one or a two. I give it a two because I feel like zero is like it deeply offended me to my core.

The SWAMP (01:29:52.014)
One is like it was unwatchable, which this movie was, but like I do think Idris Elba and Matthew McConaughey did something here, you know? Yeah, sure. Anyways, hope you all continue to chase the hot man off into the desert. Have a lovely rest of your week and thank you for listening. Bye. Bye.